Unsexy Church
Unsexy Church
Season 2 Episode 56: Dating & Marriage Q&A with Ben and Maddie
The search for love can be challenging, especially when you're determined to honor God in the process. Today, on this special episode, special guests Ben and Maddie discuss what biblical dating looks like in today's world.
The two share the story of their romance and answer some questions asked by our young adults at FBC Tampa.
If you're single, dating, engaged, or even newly married, this conversation offers refreshing perspective on relationships that honor God. Tune into this episode of Unsexy Church!
Hello everyone and welcome to the Unsexy Church podcast.
Speaker 1:Hello, hello everybody, this is a what it's your boy Ben.
Speaker 2:It's your boy Ben.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we, we're a little different today we are.
Speaker 2:It's a very special episode. Why is that?
Speaker 1:uh, well, first of all, I'm here and my beautiful, lovely wife, madison, is also here. Oh, so kind hello.
Speaker 2:Uh, we, we've upped the beauty in the room with being hot of it, and then we replaced them with the Maddie block.
Speaker 3:And the Kara Smith.
Speaker 2:I always be here, just in the corner.
Speaker 1:Them two bring the beauty down significantly. So when? They're out you're in Bumps up the beauty.
Speaker 2:There you go. Well, yeah, this is a very special episode. Yeah, how have you? This is a very special episode. Yeah, how have you guys been? How's your day been so far? Let's start with that.
Speaker 3:My day's been pretty good Just been at home, you know, with our daughter, and then I came here.
Speaker 2:That's all I've done today.
Speaker 3:I mean I did a lot in between all that.
Speaker 1:but Prepping for tonight, so looking forward to it. We're recording this on a wednesday.
Speaker 3:We are, yes, youth group night best night one, nine come on would you guys like to know the fact of the day?
Speaker 2:yes, give us the fact of the day, kara fact of the day is that the average cost of a wedding in the united states in 2024 was around $33,000. Cha-ching, cha-ching.
Speaker 1:That's a lot of money.
Speaker 2:That is a lot of money.
Speaker 1:Do we have a cha-ching sound?
Speaker 2:I don't know, I'm trying to see.
Speaker 1:There needs to be a cha-ching sound.
Speaker 2:I know Cha-ching, cha-ching. There's your cha-ching sound, yeah, I just made it, but isn't that crazy $33,000. How do you guys feel about that?
Speaker 3:I personally know people who have spent this much and more on their wedding.
Speaker 1:After having a wedding, I never, like I, understood that weddings were expensive.
Speaker 3:Wait.
Speaker 1:Disclaimer we did not spend $33,000 on a wedding, but like after having a wedding, I'm hyper aware of how much things cost so true so every wedding that I go to I'm like that was a lot of money. Yeah, especially if it's nice, it's like these chairs how much do they?
Speaker 3:spend per chair no literally flowers oh, flowers, this place one what?
Speaker 1:yeah, intense and the double shooters for the camera.
Speaker 3:They're like um, yeah, I think it's important to have what you want to have. Yeah on your day, but also don't waste money on your day.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like if there's something that's like super important to you.
Speaker 1:Like your whole life you've dreamed of having a taco truck have the talk like have your taco truck, but maybe don't have like such a good idea.
Speaker 3:But maybe don't have like such a good idea, but maybe don't have like every other thing don't do two tacos trucks right, just do one taco exactly and then maybe go with a little uh, paper plate action who knows, there you go.
Speaker 2:Yeah, give and take a little taco tray, if you will do. You guys have something that was like your favorite thing that you kind of switched on for your wedding.
Speaker 3:Oh well, I always say, if you're going to splurge on one thing, splurge on your photos, because that's literally the one thing, other than your spouse, that you have after your wedding forever.
Speaker 1:Photos yeah yeah, that's like the one thing that lasts you know.
Speaker 3:So that's something that we splurged on, I think the other thing, if you want to, if you have like a specific place you want to get married that you really care about you know that's in all your pictures, so I kind of understand that, and then maybe your dress is a good splurge.
Speaker 1:I mean, it's not necessarily the wedding, but maybe splurge a little on your little bachelor bachelorette.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, the little bridal wedding, have some fun, make a fun memory.
Speaker 3:As far as our wedding, yeah, I feel like we splurged on the photos. That's really the only thing we splurged on. We tried to do a lot of personal stuff. We used my parents' cake topper and we used his parents' cake cutting thing, so that was special, that's very special, I mean, my dress wasn't cheap but it wasn't a million dollars either.
Speaker 1:That was probably another purge.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I thrifted, like all our decorations, all the groomsmen jackets I thrifted.
Speaker 1:They were all like a dollar, which that's a lot.
Speaker 2:Oh, really, yeah, they were like they didn't.
Speaker 3:I don't want to say, oh one was black and one was blue.
Speaker 1:But that's not how it was. They didn't match. They were all like not suede, but they were all like a wintry brownish, Brownish grayish.
Speaker 2:I didn't know that you drifted them. They were cute.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like a dollar a piece.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was kind of a vibe. Then they got them fitted each to themselves.
Speaker 1:No, I like Some of them didn't have to.
Speaker 2:I, like, found their sizes. That's the coolest thing ever. It was. It was a sleigh, sleigh indeed. Well, you guys have probably already gotten a little bit of a hint about what today's episode is on. We recently had a Q and a with our young adults about relationships, just marriage and relationships, and what it looks like to date from a biblical perspective, and it went very well. And Maddie was actually supposed to be one of the hosts that night. I don't know about hosts or guest speakers but wasn't able to make it.
Speaker 2:But we also had a bunch of questions left, because we have very many curious young adults who just want some love. Yeah, who want some love. Not quite sure how to get it. So today we are going to be answering some of those questions for you.
Speaker 2:All the tips and tricks, all the tips and tricks how to get married fast. No, I'm kidding. But before we kind of dig into that, I do want to know if you guys could just kind of tell us a little bit, little bit of your story about how you guys met.
Speaker 3:Um ben is motioning to me so I think that he wants me to say elegant storyteller oh, I'll jump in with the detail if it's missed.
Speaker 1:Oh okay, not that, not that it will right, right, right, no, it's okay, um, okay, so ben and I actually met here at fbc tampa.
Speaker 3:Oh shout out. Um, my family moved here when I was in high school because my dad was in the military, so we moved around a lot and we moved here the summer after my sophomore year. Um, yeah, summer after my sophomore year, yes and um, I started coming to this church with my family and ben was actually the first person that I got introduced to. Fun fact, trent was also new to this church at the time as the new youth pastor. I think he had only been here for like a couple weeks, yeah a month it was like very quickly um
Speaker 1:so he didn't waste any time so no, exactly exactly no, we, we've told the story with trent and he always says that I was just the only person that he like yeah, good, point two, kind of point two so I remember walking in the door on a sunday morning and him, you know, I met trent and jesse and baby judah was in his little car seat.
Speaker 3:He was little teeny nino, um. And immediately after, just like introducing ourselves small talk is over trent's like.
Speaker 3:So this is ben, the pastor's son, and I was like oh, hello um, but at the time ben and I actually both had other significant others. So, um, we were just friends. I'm gonna fast forward a little. We were friends for a year. We did a lot of church together, like we sang on the worship team together, we served in a lot of the kid areas and bbs and all those things, youth events, all that. And then we, um, the next summer, um, we had both at this point broken up with our significant others that we had before and we kind of started liking each other over camp. So we were camp crushes, cute, and, um, yeah, after camp then ben asked me to be his girlfriend. We started dating. So I was a senior in high school and ben wait, you were going into your sorry year.
Speaker 1:I was going to my freshman year correct um, and so we started dating.
Speaker 3:And then, um, then, when it came time for college, I decided, well, I didn't really know where I wanted to go to school, um, because my family was moving. And so I was like, well, I can't really pick based off where my family is. So I kind of had a couple options. I ended up going to campbell university in north carolina and then ben over. This time, if you've listened to the, I think you talked about this on one episode. You were in one of the first at this time.
Speaker 3:If you've listened to the, I think you talked about this on one episode you were in one of the first at this time felt the Lord calling him into ministry, and so he had to switch schools, and we actually already had some connections with a school up in North Carolina called Southeastern Seminary, and it just happened to be only one hour from Campbell University. What a coincidence. I know so we didn't necessarily pick, it was on the list, it was very low on it, it was all these things are really great.
Speaker 1:Exactly, it was only an hour.
Speaker 3:It was a plus, but honestly, it was really great because we each kind of had our own space, I mean because we'd only been dating for a year when we went to college.
Speaker 1:So it was kind of nice If we were to break up. It wouldn't have been yeah, it would have been okay, yeah.
Speaker 3:But also it kind of helped us stay together at the same time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because we were able to go to church together.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so then we went to church together for for three years. We got married and then moved back a year ago and just had a baby nine months ago. Oh yeah, shout out her.
Speaker 2:And yeah, was that good story.
Speaker 3:That was great that was great, so yeah, so you guys met here at this church and now we're back, which is so sweet, yeah, and now our daughter is gonna You're at this church, and now we're back, which is so sweet, and now our daughter is going to grow up in this church.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's crazy.
Speaker 3:That makes me emotional.
Speaker 1:Honestly, it's a weird reality. I didn't grow up from a baby here, but from third grade is practically baby. If you're a third grader out there, you're a big boy, don't worry about it.
Speaker 3:Shout out all the third graders listening.
Speaker 1:Shout out, uh but like just knowing that uh, she's gonna grow up is really cool yeah she'll experience a lot of the same things that I did different time, obviously, but yes, just running around the halls and such that.
Speaker 2:That's so precious, that's so precious, so would you say, in total, you guys dated for two years.
Speaker 1:No, no, it had to be way more than that Three and a half, three and a half. Yeah, yeah, dated for two and a half Engaged for a year.
Speaker 3:A year and a month or so A year, and then got married.
Speaker 1:Got married.
Speaker 2:Yeah, dated for two and a half. Engaged for a year. A year and then got married and then got married Correct, so in total that was three and a half years.
Speaker 1:Three and a half years.
Speaker 2:Okay, sorry I don't know how to do my math. That's okay, but because we have quite a few questions just about how long some people should be dating, those are what the first few questions are about. So I'm just going to kind of list all these questions that the young adults had asked and then we can discuss. But one of them is why do Christian couples get married so shortly after meeting? Another question is how long should couples date? And the next question is what do you guys think the best age to get married at is? I know a lot of people have thoughts on that, like, oh, we need to get married as soon as possible.
Speaker 3:I mean, I don't know um those are just the questions that that were asked I mean, I feel like you got to start with the how long should couples date, because that's kind of like the first order of business I think we're going to say the same exact thing.
Speaker 1:Like it it's almost it's relative per couple. Like if you're 16, dating a 16 year old and you guys have high school left and college left, then you should probably date for longer than a year and a half Right?
Speaker 3:You should date for a while.
Speaker 1:But if you're 28 and you're just meeting for the first time, 22, 22, like living and you're just meeting for the first time 22 22 like living, and you're actually able to get married.
Speaker 3:I don't be a lot shorter I don't think there's a specific I love I'm probably gonna shout out jp a lot on this podcast. There's a pastor jonathan that I really, really love listening to and he has just so much wisdom on dating in today's culture and he always says you should date as long as you need to, to see like if this person is going to be a good spouse and is going to be your spouse and then, once you have the answers, yes, and you know, everything else is good to go get married then
Speaker 2:get married, you know so, and it could be different for each person.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah could be 13 years if you're um, if you're really young, might as well but also don't date that young yeah that's not the question, but cut that out.
Speaker 2:So do you think there's a the perfect age to get to get married at? Oh, I don't know. Yeah, I mean I'd suggest one week the ones we got married at, because that's just what we did but, I don't I think it's a relative thing, like a per situation, I think there's a lot, a lot of people probably facing pressure, feeling like they have to get married or do something yeah you know so. So I think that's probably why that that question was asked.
Speaker 3:Yeah I'm very much against the one fits all approach with like talking about topics like these, unless it's obviously like a sin issue. I feel like you know, it can be different for so many people and I think there's been different seasons of like the church where it's like, oh, you need to do X Y Z or oh, you need to do X Y Z, and it's probably just whatever is going to work best for you, as long as you're serving the Lord and devoted your life to him.
Speaker 2:It could be different for different people. Any thoughts on why Christian couples get married so shortly after meeting? This could be asked by a Christian, or even someone who was not a believer.
Speaker 1:Just being curious. There's so many answers to this question. There's so many answers to this question One. I think, as a Christian culture, we put marriage on a pedestal, and I think it should necessarily be on a pedestal.
Speaker 2:Wait, should or should not? It should be.
Speaker 1:It's something that God created to represent his relationship with the church and it's a beautiful, wonderful thing and it's talked about often in church. So when you are a Christian growing up around that and you find another Christian who also grew up around that who most likely wants to start a family, and do that as soon as possible. You find someone that you think is good for that and you, you, you get married. Um, and do I think it's always good? No, Do I think the Lord can still use that?
Speaker 3:Yes, that's what I would say when I yeah, like what I was kind of saying about I feel like right now it's very common to see people dating for a very short amount of time and getting married a very short amount of time, which I don't think is, Go to any Bible college and it's.
Speaker 1:it's all over the place.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I don't think it's wrong. I just also think that if that's not something that you're comfortable with and have peace about, then you're not in the wrong for not getting married fast. As to believing Christians who want to get married, I think it's okay if you.
Speaker 1:It's okay to not get married.
Speaker 3:Don't get married fast. But I think the reason people do I mean, I think if you are, if let's take a couple who is, you know, following the Lord, does want to get married, knows the other person is their spouse, they're following the Lord, then you know if you're following all the things that God has said is best for you. There's a lot of reasons to want to get married.
Speaker 1:So marriage is great.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of things about marriage that are awesome.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. Companionship intimacy, all of it.
Speaker 1:It's something to be desired.
Speaker 2:I'm going to ask a question to each of you. That's not necessarily on this list, but what would you reflect, reflecting on yourself, either like as a man or as a woman? What would you think to yourself I need to have before I get married?
Speaker 1:as a whoop.
Speaker 2:No, I'm kidding wait, do you mean from a?
Speaker 3:relationship yeah or like what would I need to know about ben, or, more so, about yourself?
Speaker 2:so, like I, should probably, for example for a man, be able to provide, because you're talking about, like, being out of high school. You know, like you, if you're in high school, you probably would like to wait before you get married so that you are able to provide just things like that but then like as a woman? What? What would you reflect on? What would I need to have before I get married?
Speaker 1:yeah, I mean, the being able to provide is a massive thing. But I also think Just in general, like being able to actually be married and live a life that is like. I mean. Decent is something to value from both perspectives is something to value from both perspectives. I think it biblically falls on the man to provide, but I also think that it's important for the wife to provide in other ways, maybe not specifically monetarily, but provide care for the home and things like that.
Speaker 3:I think when we're talking about getting married young, I mean, I have a lot of friends right now who, like their husbands, are in school and you know the wife is helping or completely providing. So I don't I think there's like nuances to obviously like long-term and there's a lot of ways, like the husband, you can be the provider, you know, even if maybe one of you is in school and you can't necessarily monetarily carry the family.
Speaker 2:That's exactly how we were. I was still in school when we got married.
Speaker 1:And the goal is to provide.
Speaker 3:Right, and you still did work, yeah.
Speaker 1:And now I am able to do that and it is a blessing and it is something that's great. So again, I would say it's a relative thing for that, because I think we're called to provide as men, in our families, in our marriages, but sometimes it doesn't have to be exactly right away if it's a clear path to being able to provide.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I think a lot of it from both, especially if you are younger. When you get married, maybe you're still in school, maybe you're like just out of school. You haven't necessarily like lived life on your own per se. I think a lot of what really the only thing or one of the only things you really like need to be able to do before getting married is being able to choose the other person and also just being willing to put your selfishness aside, because there's going to be nuances in every scenario. There's no perfect. This has to be done, that has to be done. If you continue to do those things while you chase after the Lord, then no matter what, maybe you're in a season where the wife is fully providing, or the husband is fully providing, or either are working at all for some reason you know, both are working.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and that can go. I'm I know we're sticking on the providing thing, but that can go for many things Like I think there's seasons for all of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, similar to what you just said, I would say that, uh, looking back, I I don't think I did a perfect job at this. I know I didn't do a perfect job at it, but being willing to put away childish things when you get married, it's something that we were told in Scripture to do, just in general, as you get older, to put away childish things, to start specifically talking about diving into scripture more specifically and, yeah, uh, deeper, but just in life in general, I I think when you get married, as a man, you can still have your hobbies, you can still have fun with your friends and things like that, but your, your number one priority becomes your wife and when you're, uh, become a family, you become parents. Your number one, your number one priority becomes your, your children, and your number two priority becomes your wife and your, your family.
Speaker 3:um, and I think you need to well, husband and wife are still the number one priority. But you mean, like your time, and yes.
Speaker 1:Yes, I knew what you meant, but I just wanted to clarify um, but yeah, just being willing to put yourself last um is something that we're called to as Christians in general.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But, looking back, I needed to do a better job at that, and I think that's something that is important for a man, for a woman going into a marriage is to be willing to let yourself down. Yeah, good to be willing to let yourself down.
Speaker 2:Yeah, good. So as a man, you should probably think to. If you're thinking about getting married, you should probably think how can I provide for this girl that I would like to marry? Am I ready to make sacrifices that are necessary for?
Speaker 3:her.
Speaker 1:Practically if that daughter, that woman, has a great relationship with her father, those are questions that her dad is going to ask you. You're going to need answers, for that's just a very practical thing. So if you're out there about to ask someone to marry them and you need to talk to their dad, have answers for those questions. Because, they'll probably be asking, amongst other things but I think those are the big ones how are you going to treat my daughter? How you're going to provide for her?
Speaker 2:yeah, and then also probably providing in a spiritual way as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, providing protecting all of those things and then from a woman's perspective.
Speaker 3:you're also probably giving some of that time up um anything else to mention, or I mean, this could be a hot take, but it doesn't have to be the same for every person.
Speaker 3:But I think, like we are called, like as women, to, you know, take care of the home in some sort of capacity. I don't think that necessarily means you have to only stay at home as a wife or only stay at home as a mom, and that's all that you can do, and you just have to wash the dishes all day. That's not what I'm saying, but I do think, like God has given us a gift, like as women, to like make things beautiful and peaceful, and like you're going to be the person who's cultivating the atmosphere of your home, and I think that's like a really big thing to to think about. And you can practice for that, like, if you're in college and you have roommates, like yes, obviously it's going to be different than when you're living with your husband, but like, take care of the apartment you know, like and foster like a spirit of community in your home for the time being. Like I feel like that's really important.
Speaker 3:Me and my girlfriends did that a lot in college. I feel like that's really important, me and my girlfriends did that a lot in college.
Speaker 3:I feel like that really prepared me well to have our own home and space. I feel like that's a good thing to think about.
Speaker 1:I think a big practical bubble, for it is just to be prepared for your role, the role that you're stepping into.
Speaker 2:All right, I think we're going to dig into these next questions here. Let's try to get these out and out, because some of them are I don't know. First question is how do I know I feel like this has to be a guy, obviously? How do I know when to text her so that I don't appear too attached? Ben thoughts no, I got thoughts.
Speaker 3:I got thoughts.
Speaker 1:I'll throw in a thought real quick. It's okay to be attached If you like the girl and she likes you. Don't be ashamed of being too attached.
Speaker 3:Don't be too attached.
Speaker 2:Don't be weird. Don't never let her breathe. Text her back every two attacks.
Speaker 3:Don't be weird.
Speaker 2:Don't like never let her breathe. Yeah, but like text her back every like two seconds.
Speaker 3:No, no, no, but also, don't please, oh my goodness People people, people, people. Let me say something we need to stop with the. He read my message two hours and twenty minutes ago, so I'm gonna wait two hours and 20 minutes ago, so I'm going to wait two hours and 21 minutes to respond. Please don't do that, gross. Please don't do that. You know what? I'm going to throw another JP quote in there.
Speaker 2:All right.
Speaker 3:He always says clarity is kindness. Okay, and that goes for when you're telling someone that you like them and when you're telling someone, hey, like, I don't think this is going to work out, I don't think this is going to work out. I don't think that we should go on another date Either, or? Please, just be clear. It makes it so much easier for everybody. And then there you go.
Speaker 1:Done. Yeah, and I mean, how do you know when you should text her? So you don't appear too attached. Hmm, I wonder what inter-female's name is doing. Hey, how are you? What are you? What are you up to like when you think about it, or when you have a question? For like it, just like, talk to her like it, don't, don't it. It does not have to be a game yes to figure out, because it shouldn't be.
Speaker 3:It shouldn't be a game that, yeah, yeah, and it also probably shouldn't be like the only thing that we're thinking about all day you know I think for some people it can be that right which you know I was about to say especially if you are not like, if you are in either or you're going to be in a relationship or want to be in a relationship with somebody who isn't like far away. So I'm kind of not really talking about long distance relationships. But if you like, see them every week and everything like maybe just don't text them all the time and talk to them in person. Or maybe text them and say like hey, do you and a group of friends want to go do X, y, z? Like I would say, really good dating advice is to be in person as much as possible and in person with friends as much as possible. You are going to get to know so much more about somebody when you're around their friends and them than texting them 24 7 so good.
Speaker 2:Thanks, kara. I also feel like this is another take, but snapchat is awful snapchat needs to go because it just allows you to see I'm sure other people have probably said this but just allows you to see I'm sure other people have probably said this, but it just allows you to see too much of people's lives. 100%, you get to see where they're at, where they're at.
Speaker 1:Where they're at. Where they're at.
Speaker 2:You get to see if they've seen something that you've sent. You know what I mean. You get to see, like all these things.
Speaker 3:It's too much, it's too sneaky. Yeah, I just feel like, yeah, you know, we're not children or little you know teeny boppers anymore, unless you are like be an adult, you know, but be an adult like in your relationship.
Speaker 1:You know be mature yeah, yeah yeah all right. Next question is dating to marry outdated uh, in reality no, but in culture, yes, what I'm, what I mean by.
Speaker 1:That was deep put that on a pillow pillow like a grandma where would that? Pillow, sit on a couch, oh, like a, like a fancy like tea room, you know, like a grandma's house. Okay, keep going. Uh, but what I? What I mean by that is I. In reality it's not. That is what you should be doing in your dating life, in your dating experience, but culture says that it is outdated, and I think that is extremely wrong, amongst other things that the culture says is wrong. So in reality it's not, but the culture is telling you yes.
Speaker 2:Here on the podcast, so far we've only talked about dating for the purpose of marriage. Right, you know, because the other option, what is it dating for the purpose of?
Speaker 1:dating or, yeah, date dating. Or dating for the purpose of dating, for not to not get.
Speaker 2:Let me, let me uh think for a second uh dating to marry.
Speaker 1:uh. Is good dating to not or dating to marry? Is good Dating to not or dating to marry?
Speaker 3:Spit it out, benjamin, spit it out.
Speaker 2:He's about to drop another line.
Speaker 1:Another pillow, a pillow line. When you're not dating to marry, you are dating to fulfill your own selfish desires. That is what I was trying to say clearly the first time, and what I mean by that is, if you're dating to marry, you are searching for someone in your life that you can both pursue Christ together, to uh, grow in your own relationship but also grow together closer to Christ. Uh, when you are dating to not get married and you're just dating to date, you're trying to just find a companion of some sort.
Speaker 1:You are probably just wanting to hang out with somebody, spend some time with somebody, and I think you should be dating.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you want all of the emotional benefits, all the physical pleasures and benefits, not, but I will also add.
Speaker 3:I think sometimes as a church and like young adults, we can put a lot of pressure at the same time of like, I think, especially in the past, you would.
Speaker 3:You're like oh, you only need to date your husband, like the first person that you date needs to be the person that you marry, and I would say, relax a little, slow your roll it's okay to date multiple people as long as you are dating each one with the intention to marry and you are only breaking up because something you know is hindering that, for some reason, something happens that you don't want to now don't hear me say go date 8 million people.
Speaker 1:At once.
Speaker 3:Definitely not at once but also probably not in the long term either. So that's not what I'm saying, but I am saying I feel like there can be a lot of guilt when girls are like, oh, I just want the first person that I date to be my husband, and I'm not saying that's a bad desire, but I have seen personally in some girls lives like at college, who wanted that so badly that they put so much pressure on them and almost felt like guilty for breaking it off with someone who they knew they weren't going to marry just because they were a believer and but it obviously wasn't going to work out, and so I would say, just you know, don't put that much pressure.
Speaker 3:Yeah, don't put that much pressure on you.
Speaker 1:Obviously to marry, but don't put pressure on it, that the first joe schmoe that you talk to has to be exactly yeah all right, hey.
Speaker 2:Next question how to find a godly man while still letting him pursue you. So how am I supposed to find a godly man while also being found?
Speaker 3:by the godly man. All the girls are wondering.
Speaker 2:That's the question.
Speaker 3:I mean I would say first of all, I mean, make sure you're looking in the right places for the men.
Speaker 3:Like you know, be involved at your church and go serve places, like go where the godly men are. That would be my first thing. Make sure you're doing those things. I think this is going to go all the way back to Genesis, but I feel like one of the like core things as a result of the fall is that men have become more passive. Like I would say that that was, you know, one of the first things that Adam, you know, didn't do is like stood up for what was right, and I think that that is definitely a cultural, a big culture problem in the church too.
Speaker 3:Um, so I I hear all the girls wondering this, Um, but I think I mean, if they're asking, you know, is it okay to like go up to a guy first or like, is it okay to tell a guy you're interested in them? I do think it's okay. I think you know, just be careful. Like you don't want to be leading the whole relationship, but you know, I don't think it's wrong for a girl to tell a guy I don't think she's interested first.
Speaker 3:I don't think it's wrong for a girl to make the first move per se, if that's the language you want to use, but when you're, if you do find yourself in a relationship from that, make sure that he is pursuing you right in the relationship after that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, after that is he going to step up? Because just a little hint into the men's brain, where we don't think too much we some, some, do, some think a lot.
Speaker 3:We some, some do, some think a lot um, but like we may not notice anything that girls are potentially, uh, trying to, oh hint, okay, I was like where is this going? We don't think very much, we don't actually have any thoughts it's just, you know the old ping pong game. Okay, it's just that, yeah but like you miss some hints yeah we'll, we'll miss something.
Speaker 1:So if you, you're a girl and you like a guy, and he loves the lord and you love the lord, say, hey, I like you, you love the lord.
Speaker 3:Oh, let's go get some milkshakes or something I don't know, but it's okay, yeah, yeah but also men, if you're listening, step up and be a man. You know if you're, if you're a man or something, I don't know, but it's okay. Yeah, but also men, if you're listening, step up and be a man.
Speaker 1:If you're a man, pursue somebody. Yeah, pursue somebody.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I don't know. Do you have any thoughts on that, kara? I feel like that can be kind of nuanced too.
Speaker 2:I feel like when I first came to this church five years ago remember I was a freshman at USF and I was like where are the boys.
Speaker 2:Is there someone I can date here? And there was Next church and I remember thinking to myself there's so many women that I would love to learn from. But I really genuinely did look around and I didn't feel like there was someone suitable for me. Sure, and then I met my husband through campus ministry Very cool round and I didn't feel like there was someone suitable for me, sure, um, uh. And then I met my husband through campus ministry.
Speaker 2:Very cool, um, but yeah, shout out, jaden. But now, five years later, I feel like this church has just grown so much and I, yeah, in so many different ways. And I remember in the beginning, um, like when I was 18, 19, even 20, I was just like praying that the Lord would bring some more like young adults not for the purpose of me to date, but just in general, but that was a side purpose. I'm just kidding, but also just in general for leadership purposes community because, you know, I'm like man.
Speaker 2:There's so many women that I would love to learn from.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:I want you know what I mean. I'm like I don't know. I was just like wanting there to be more men in the young adult sphere as well.
Speaker 2:Um, and I look now and I just see that the Lord has been so faithful in our leadership, um, in our young adult group, um, and then also, when I just look into the crowd on a Sunday morning, I see so many more men than I did before. So I just think that the Lord has answered that prayer and for a girl who's thinking to herself like I just want God to pursue me. I think that what you're saying about serving and being in the right places is very true, but I also think that if you're getting out of your comfort zone for the purpose of spreading the gospel, if you're being kind to people, older ladies in the church notice that they might set you up.
Speaker 1:I don't know, true, true, but other people, older ladies, got nephews, yeah, but older.
Speaker 2:I don't know people will notice that. Everyone in the church will notice if you're taking chances to share your faith. If you're taking chances to share your faith, if you're taking chances to be inviting, if you're getting out of your comfort zone for other reasons that are not in relation to dating right um keep chasing after the lord.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah, and you will allow opportunities.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah even in a healthy, strong church being on fire for the lord stands out it does it really does true, does True which is it's. It's a sad reality, but it is true. Like being on fire in the Lord for the Lord stands out in the, in the real world and in life, at work, at school, but being on fire for the Lord also stands out for at church, yeah. So if you do that, some someone will notice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, don't, don't, don't, don't do it for show, don't do it for not.
Speaker 1:Don't be on fire for the Lord to meet a dude. Yeah, be on fire for Lord because you love the Lord and meet a dude who's also on fire for the Lord, and then become one fire together.
Speaker 2:What All?
Speaker 1:right Next question.
Speaker 2:But yeah, so that backs a lot of what you guys were already talking about. But so this next person wants to know, um, just about how to choose the right person, and so you know, like, how are we supposed to choose the right person? How?
Speaker 3:do you know? It's the one it's the one I'm saying how do you know, oh yeah, how do you know, oh yeah, how do you know how to know who to choose.
Speaker 2:Yeah, how do I know who to choose? Even for today? Yeah, just to date to marry. Um, what were things that you guys even noticed about one another that made you think I want to marry this girl, I want to marry this guy?
Speaker 3:Um, I think I mean number one. Like you obviously want to find someone who is on fire for the Lord. I also think that, again, going back to the friendship thing, I think that's a really, really telling way. If somebody is a good person to date and to marry also, I think that it's you just see a lot more of someone's integrity and even beyond that, you just can learn a lot more about somebody and just what they think about all kinds of things in life, Like even like spiritual things, just practical, day-to-day things. Like when we were in college, my friend group that Ben was also a part of, when he would come visit we would have all kinds of like conversations about things, and just ask each other like, oh, what do you think about this?
Speaker 3:and bouncing off of each other, we were kind of able to see like, oh, I've never thought of that. Oh, I've never thought of that. Oh, this is what I think like, and I think you can just really really get to know someone. So I think as a friend, yes, as a friend and then also, you know, okay, am I going to mesh well with this person like based on our beliefs and based on what we think about.
Speaker 3:You know other things, like how do they treat other people. You know, because it's not just how they treat you yeah because it's a lot easier to treat someone nicely when it's just you two and you're on a date at a fancy restaurant, and of course they're going to be, and she too also wants to give you a kiss.
Speaker 1:It's really easy to be nice to that person, whoa.
Speaker 3:And. But you know, when you see that person around their friends and one of them makes a rude joke, how does that guy respond, you know, like is he going to stand up for what's right, or is he going to laugh and make another joke, you know, or just not say anything like that. That is when you can really you know, see character.
Speaker 1:Yeah, see character. You can see, you can really see character in somebody when you're around them and situations that they're comfortable, yeah, um, when they're comfortable, what? How do they act Right? Yeah, yeah, I've, I've dated before and then thought to myself man, I could have really learned everything that I needed to know about you just by being your friend, right? Why did I need to do this? You know that's a really good point. Yes, so I mean we're. If you're friends with people, that's great. Congratulations that you're friends.
Speaker 3:Um, don't immediately start looking at your friend group for your next next boyfriend or girlfriend but if you have a friend group that loves the lord, maybe look around your friend group and see if anyone can be a spouse or find someone that you can become a friend with too well yeah, I think a lot of people like are like oh, these are all my friends, you know, but have you ever thought about your friends? Like that spoiler alert if they love the lord you want to have fun with your spouse.
Speaker 1:So if you're friends before you start dating Right, you'll know each other more, you'll have things to talk about more and yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Be friends.
Speaker 2:Nice.
Speaker 3:Be friends. And then, as far as you were asking, like, how do we know, like, about marrying?
Speaker 3:the right person to marry. I think obviously the basics that we've already talked about a lot, I mean their character and if they love the Lord, you know, are they a part of a church, et cetera, et cetera. But beyond that, like practically, I think it's just you know, what are you guys wanting in life? What are your family plans? I say that with quotations because obviously you know you can only plan so much. But you know you can only plan so much, but you know, if one person wants to be a missionary overseas and the other person doesn't, I don't know if that's a bad thing to say but you know, I mean, it doesn't have that calling on their life Like you know,
Speaker 3:maybe evaluate, see if you're, you know, a good team. Um, so I don't know. Know, I just feel like practically, like does it make sense, you know? And then also are people like cheering you on. You know, like, if you have best guy friends, best girlfriends, and ask them like yeah, hey, like I'm like really serious about this guy, like what do you think about him? Like I'm giving and but if you say this, you have to be ready to hear what they genuinely you know, know, think and see and notice.
Speaker 3:But ask them like I'm giving you permission to like call me out or give me your real, you know opinions of this guy, like I'm thinking about marrying him. And then if you really trust your friend, like trust your friend, you know multiple, obviously, you know seek counsel. What about, like, what do your parents think, think, if you have a good relationship with your parents or his parents, what do they think about it? Like, are they cheering you on, saying like you know, we're so excited, we want to have you in the family, whatever, or is there, you know, a lot of caution being thrown out?
Speaker 3:you know, I feel like trust, like there's so many verses in proverbs about like in the bun, in the abundance of counselors there's safety, and I love that verse and there's a bunch like it, because it's just so important, I think, to bring other people into your relationship again, obviously people who love the lord, who you like opinions, you trust, but you know, do that and then trust them good or bad.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that. I love that, all right. I'm interested in someone who's curious about Christianity but is not a Christian currently. They've come to church before and have a hunger for something more, but haven't found the Lord. What should I do about these feelings?
Speaker 3:We don't do that. We don't do that. Don't mess around with that. Be friends with them.
Speaker 1:Talk to them about the Lord, help them with their curiosity about Christianity.
Speaker 3:They have feelings for this person though I would say point them to people who can help them, who are maybe like the same gender, to help remove temptation and, emotional, obviously, still be their friend, like you're saying, ben. But yeah, maybe point them to someone else for like spiritual conversations and then don't be messing around, like don't hang out alone with them and don't Bring them to your friends.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yes, yes.
Speaker 3:Have them a part of your friend group. I'm not saying like shun them or anything, but don't allow emotional connection like that romantically, when someone's not a believer. Just don't do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Don't do it. It's clear that that's not the Lord's best for you. Like there will be. You think that that's like the best person for you, and it's just not true, because the Lord has the best things in mind for you.
Speaker 1:And that's not it. I'm pretty sure he got it from somewhere, but Trent says this all the time Like the we as a culture, I think, just doesn't understand that the things that Jesus and God say in scripture are actually pretty good for us. Like they actually are, like it's it's probably the it's definitely the best thing for us. And Like they actually are Like it's probably the it's definitely the best thing for us. And we, even as Christians, we live our lives almost different from that. What do they know? It's like Everything.
Speaker 3:Yeah, god loves you and wants the best for you and wants you to be with someone who also loves him, because you are going to run into so many other problems later in life yeah, nice, very, very good.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry, now I'm being a little strange with that. I feel like I have, uh, I've known people who you know have tried to to date someone who's not a believer and it usually ends in heartbreak or I don't know if that person ends up coming to the Lord like because of that person.
Speaker 3:Right which like praise God for that yeah. But, that doesn't make it right Right.
Speaker 2:Or they will try their best to be something else.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Or the person who actually is a believer and you don't try their best, but their heart is not in it, and so it just seems to be that there's just heartbreak to be found when you follow that path.
Speaker 1:Because I mean just naturally, someone who is not a believer has different morals than someone who is a believer. They could be literally the best human being alive and still have different morals and different things. That just does not align with Scripture. That will affect your relationship yeah, okay, all right.
Speaker 2:So during the q a there was a question um what does god define as marriage. Would would you like to answer that for us really quick? Just a brief synopsis what does he define as marriage?
Speaker 1:the top of my head, I'd say that the coming together of two individuals, one male, one female, to become one representing his relationship with his church.
Speaker 2:Nice T'le.
Speaker 3:T'le.
Speaker 2:And then this person had a question based off of that, where they just want to know if engagement is considered to be this type of union. What if people, because they say, does the Bible specify whether the union happens once it's made legal? When a man and woman make the choice to be committed to each other, is engagement considered this type of union? Considered marriage?
Speaker 3:I think, if it's a, it's a, if it's a Christian wedding ceremony between two believers, that it is seen when the officiant, who is hopefully also a believer, says like you are now pronounced husband and wife because I feel like they are exercising their like. I don't know if this is the right term, but maybe God-given authority to marry two people and I would say it's at that moment that you become husband and wife when they say yeah, you become husband and wife.
Speaker 3:You become husband and wife the the legal aspects of it are, you know, part of that in our culture and I think that also matters yeah to you know, sign the papers and do the things and all of that, but but for the yeah for the engagement question. Yes, engagement question dating engagement when you feel in your heart that you are united. And yeah, someone jokes around and blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 1:No, yeah, because it's a serious commitment, it's a covenant you're making with another individual yeah, right, engagement is a commitment to a commitment.
Speaker 2:Yeah to a future commitment yeah um, we have a question specifically for and that will be the last question Whoa how do you live out the Genesis 224 command to leave and cleave while still living close and working in the same place as your parent, or as your father? I guess Mom does not work here at this church.
Speaker 1:Maybe no, I'm kidding, that's not going to happen. Maybe no, I'm kidding, that's not going to happen. I would say, first of all, we were married for over a year, year and a half, before we moved down here.
Speaker 1:So, I had already been able to leave and cleave and to live our own life, to make our own decisions and things like that. But practically not even just specifically for me, but just in general whether you live near your parents or far away from your parents it's about making your new family that you just created with your new wife your priority. You can still love your parents, still love your mom, talk to your mom, talk to your dad, love them, but ultimately, you need to be aware that your decisions have to put your family first. Not that your parents are no longer your family, but your main responsibility is now your wife. It's not to make sure your mom's happy or your dad's happy.
Speaker 3:Yes, you want those things, but how do you practically live that out?
Speaker 1:So practically I spend more time with my wife than I do with my parents. Uh, I would say that when there's something that needs to be, uh, decided upon and my, my parents so lovingly provide advice, uh, I still take up on that decision with Maddie and I don't make a decision just because my mommy or daddy said oh, this is probably a good option um yeah, so yeah, just yeah, making sure you I put maddie, and now our daughter, first before them.
Speaker 1:Not that I don't love my parents, shout out my parents and like we, want to get counsel from our parents, yeah we have both of us have great, yes, great parents.
Speaker 3:So, like ben was saying, like we still listen and ask for advice, but it's always like, okay, like this is what you know. Oh, we have to make this decision. This is do we want to ask for their?
Speaker 1:advice on this.
Speaker 3:Yes, okay, let's ask for their advice. Okay, let's come back together without them and talk to each other about it. After, what do we feel about it? You know, what do you think about what they said? And then making the decision, I feel like that's really the only, that's like the main place, I feel like where this comes into play, because I mean, yeah, there's not a lot of ways that are. I mean, it may seem like our lives are very, very intertwined because ben works with his dad, but it's work. It's working. That's not like family, like time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, do you know what I'm saying?
Speaker 3:So it's kind of like a different like.
Speaker 1:And we're both blessed with parents that are very supportive of us, very supportive. And supportive in general, and want what's best for us and understand what leaving Cleveland actually is Right, they don't.
Speaker 3:They don't try to.
Speaker 1:They don't do anything like that actually is. They don't step on our toes or do anything like that, so we're blessed with that. But if you are in a marriage, that that is not the case. It's about supporting your wife, supporting your husband.
Speaker 3:And it's imperative that you put up boundaries with your parents, even in love and kindly. But you know, sometimes that needs to be done and say this is something I'm not going to talk with you.
Speaker 1:You about this is something I need to talk with my wife and my husband or like he, you will not talk to her like that, like that, this being able to defend your, your family, yeah, very nice.
Speaker 2:So that is all the questions for our young adults, all the ones that were left over from our relationship q a. We're so so grateful that you guys were able to come and share your wisdom.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was a little bit a longer episode. I know it definitely was. I hope it was helpful to you all, I think it'll be good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's very good. So thank you guys again for coming on Unsexy Joy Podcast. Thank you See y'all. Bye.
