Unsexy Church
Unsexy Church
Season 2 Episode 58: On the Path to Pastoral Ministry
you know, I've never asked you what you think about the intro music, bob. What do you think?
Speaker 2:I don't think I've ever heard it all the way through. We usually interrupt it before it goes too far, but it's just on a loop anyway.
Speaker 1:Right, I can go back to it just on a loop. Anyway, right, I can go back to it, it's kind of groovy.
Speaker 2:What era would that?
Speaker 1:kind of music come from, uh, late 80s, no, no, early 90s, 70s, 70s ish, when was it? Gives me kind of almost like a back to the future vibe okay is that right?
Speaker 2:am I wrong? Like 1950s, back to the Future.
Speaker 1:No, before he goes back Before he goes back Like what you'd listen to in the car. What's the car that he has? I can't remember what's the car called.
Speaker 3:DeLorean.
Speaker 1:DeLorean.
Speaker 2:thank you, I feel like it's something you'd kind of vibe, to Like a Huey Lewis in the News, kind of thing.
Speaker 1:No, but I don't know Something when like techno, just kind of barely kind of comes into the scene.
Speaker 3:Techno dance music.
Speaker 2:That'd be 80s, early 80s, yeah, more like 90s. Techno dance was more like 90s.
Speaker 1:Okay, early 90s. You said it sounded more 70s.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but to me it sounds yeah.
Speaker 1:I don't know.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Okay, do you like it?
Speaker 2:I love it.
Speaker 1:It's awesome. Do you like it? I love it. That's he actually listens to it. I do so. I go to sleep to this every night. I love like the, the kind of the pounding bass.
Speaker 2:Maybe it's because it reminds me of, like the six million dollar man what's that? I generally don't know it's a TV show from the 70s. Ah, no, no, no, no, no no.
Speaker 1:How's he a $6 million man? Is he a boxer?
Speaker 2:No, he was a. If I remember right, he was a pilot and he crashed and then they put him back together and made him stronger, better than ever, Gave him a bionic eye and bionic arms and legs. You should look it up.
Speaker 1:All right. Well, I have a meeting that I do with some college students once a week, and the first question we ask is what's popping, what's going on?
Speaker 3:What's going on?
Speaker 1:in life and the news Trent's back by the way, welcome back yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm popping Trent's popping today, come on.
Speaker 1:He's back.
Speaker 3:He's popping off queen.
Speaker 1:Don't like that, but in the news the Pope has passed. Yes, there's a search for a new pope. That should be, interesting.
Speaker 1:What's popping in my life is I've been sent the same meme from about four different people, which is when Catholics are looking for a new pope, there's smoke that comes out of the building, of course, as is the process. When pastors install a new pastor, there's smoke coming from the grill. When Baptists install a new pastor, smoke that meat. Are you going to be the new pope? No, the smoker Baptist. When Baptist installing a pastor, smoke that meat, smoking both.
Speaker 3:Are you going to be the new Pope?
Speaker 1:No, I can't technically, but I did learn something about this. There are four that seem to be most looked at right now, but I did learn that any. I don't know how true this is, but any Catholic can technically serve as Pope, as long as you're Catholic.
Speaker 3:Is that your next move after Redeemer City? No, it's not Okay.
Speaker 1:And that's another podcast. But any Catholic can technically be Pope. Now they won't be, but they could be.
Speaker 2:I didn't know that. Isn't it typically those that are in the group of cardinals that are voting for the new Pope? Is that?
Speaker 1:technically the magisterium. I don't in the group of cardinals that are voting for the new pope, is that technically the magisterium? I don't know. I don't know who. Yeah, I don't know exactly where the magisterium ends and that group, I don't know, but I don't know that they have to be. I think they probably have always been Technically have been, but I don't think they have to be. I don't know. I think basically, it's like you have to be a male and you have to be a Catholic.
Speaker 3:Can a woman be Pope?
Speaker 1:I don't believe, so Give them time. Yeah, yeah, anyways. So hey, I have a fact for you, pastor Bob. I thought it would be kind of fun. I always struggle with what fact to come up with. I actually don't always struggle. I've been struggling because all of the crazy fact websites that I look up for these, I've used them all, or they're just not very good. We've noticed, thanks. So I thought a good idea would be to give the origin of a unique phrase Like cool your jets, where did that come from? So I've got raise a toast Without looking at the show notes. What does it come from? I know this one.
Speaker 2:It's not fair.
Speaker 1:Share it, do you know?
Speaker 3:I think it comes from. No, you already read the show notes. What does it come from?
Speaker 1:no-transcript. I read it from one place, then I kept reading it.
Speaker 2:They used to literally put a piece of toast in their wine or whatever it was.
Speaker 1:So one said because it dulled the spicy flavor. Another said that it added more flavor because it was seasoned toast. So apparently in history there has always been some sort of like raising of a glass. Initially it was in Greek culture to like honor the gods. And in Roman culture it became very common to put toast in your glass, some sort of seasoning to the glass, to the meat or whatever, and the toast would be in it and they'd raise it, the toast, and then it became more honoring to people in the room rather than gods. So, raising a toast, raise your soggy toast.
Speaker 3:So you're literally raising toast. Soggy toast Raise your soggy toast.
Speaker 2:So you're literally raising toast, soggy toast.
Speaker 1:They would call it something, was it called. It was called like saga or something like that.
Speaker 2:Oh, I didn't know that I wasn't there at the time.
Speaker 1:I know I'm old, but I wasn't there at the time. Yeah, I read about it this morning. Well, that's cool.
Speaker 2:That's a cool fact phrase that you know the history of I bet you know one, Bob, I'm sure I do, but put on the spot I have to think through it now Cool your jets?
Speaker 3:Isn't that one just?
Speaker 1:Cooling the engines after blowing. Yeah, alright, kara, while we do the, would you Rather look up a few unique phrases and just ask us if we know the origins? You rather look up a few unique phrases and just ask us if we know the origins behind them? Okay, all right, I've got a. Would you rather? Question of the day, pastor Bob.
Speaker 2:All right, what I'd rather. I'm excited.
Speaker 1:I'm going to drink my coffee because it's too hot still. Would you rather be given $1 million? We're back to these. I steal them from another podcast. Would you rather be given $1 million or be given 25 million If you hit a bullseye with only 25 tries?
Speaker 2:playing darts, I assume Okay. Yeah, I've got no confidence in my dart throwing abilities and nor do I have any confidence in my dumb luck. So I definitely go 1 million, just take it and be excited, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, same, there's no shot. I am going to get even close to a bullseye, and if I did, you know what? I'd be pretty sad, but I'll be very surprised. There's a certain show where there's a bullseye needed and some friendly competition.
Speaker 2:That is such a good part of that show. That's a good scene. Yeah, that's a good scene. Yeah, that's a good.
Speaker 1:Oh wow, that's a show not to be named right yeah, yeah, but it was, yeah, that was a good scene. Yeah, are you? Are you good at darts? No in your billiard pool hall, bar days no okay, still no. Did you have a dartboard in your house growing up?
Speaker 3:no okay you know who did, who j Jaden.
Speaker 2:He did have a dartboard. Is he good at darts? Is he good, probably.
Speaker 3:He could be better.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 3:I say that because the night before our wedding he actually lost at a game of darts and then with his friend they had to do something. I won't say what that was, but maybe I'll tell you guys afterwards.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Did you have a dartboard growing up, not growing up?
Speaker 1:we had one in college okay, like in your dorm room or the house we rented, yeah yeah, that poor wall was just just holes over the wall swiss cheese I I had.
Speaker 1:We had a dartboard growing up. We had it in like our basement. Um, I don't know why we had it, we never played it, it was just hanging up there. Uh, I say we never played it. I did a few times. That's where my drum set was growing up. I remember one time it was oddly close to the basement door so you walk in and you're pretty close to the dartboard, so if someone's playing darts there's a chance you might get spiked. Well, that happened one time. My sister was walking down the basement door I was throwing a dart and it went through like part of her finger. It didn't go all the way through or anything, but like it went into and out of like the skin of her finger. Uh, she bled a lot but she was okay so I did she hold it against you?
Speaker 1:I'm assuming you did it on purpose um, you know, every once in a while, your sibling just needs to get a dart to the hand and you know, I think it. It could have been one of those times where you know what so passive aggressive payback, so you're so passive aggressive. You know it was not intentional so did you ever play?
Speaker 2:you know, they tried to make it more safe and they came up with this electronic form of darts. And then you threw a plastic dart at this plastic board with have all these little holes in it, and then it kept score, but the darts never went in.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that made no sense I had played that. It never went in. No, what did they think that was going to work? Apparently they did. I mean, bought it. I mean, how, how difficult is it to get a bullseye? How difficult is it, similarly, to get into a itty bitty little hole that barely fits the dart? Just big enough so it like goes in, but stays. Small enough so it stays up? Ridiculous, alright, what do you got for us?
Speaker 3:Bite the bullet.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what's the origin of bite the bullet?
Speaker 3:In wartime, soldiers would bite on bullets during surgeries, without anesthesia, to cope with the pain.
Speaker 1:You're nodding, like you knew that. I knew that one.
Speaker 2:No, yes, of course that's self-explanatory actually.
Speaker 3:Okay, hold on hold on, no that one I knew.
Speaker 1:Don't give me an explanation until we see if Pastor.
Speaker 3:Bob knows it. Okay, okay, break the ice.
Speaker 1:Break the ice. Does that have to do with fishing Ice? Does that have?
Speaker 2:to do with fishing Ice fishing, yeah, that's what I would think. You'd have to break the ice to get the thing started.
Speaker 1:What do you think?
Speaker 3:Is it ice fishing it comes from ships, called icebreakers, that break up ice in waterways to allow for safe paths.
Speaker 2:I don't think so. I can see that you don't think so. Who knows where it came from?
Speaker 3:Okay, All right.
Speaker 1:Let the cat out of the bag.
Speaker 2:I think you should keep the bag Now.
Speaker 1:All right, this one and one more. What is that one?
Speaker 3:In old marketplaces farmers might sell pigs in bags, but dishonest ones would substitute a cat.
Speaker 1:How do you get that confused?
Speaker 3:The bag. The cat jumped out and the trick was maybe it was a baby pig, a little piglet.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but one's round and one's not so round Cats can be round. Yeah, but their fur looks round, but their body is not. I mean, it's softer.
Speaker 3:I don't know why you would put creatures in bags anyway.
Speaker 1:Well, I don't wait for cats. Alright, one more R and bags anyway. But Well, I don't wait for cats, all right one more Riding shotgun.
Speaker 2:Oh, that one's easy. That one's from stagecoach dates when they literally had a guy on the side of the driver with a shotgun to protect the cargo, that's what I would say.
Speaker 1:I wouldn't say I didn't know stagecoach days, but I figured protection.
Speaker 3:I didn't know that, but that's actually really cool, is that?
Speaker 1:what it is. Does it say stagecoach days?
Speaker 3:It says in the wild west.
Speaker 1:Wild west. A guard sat next to the stagecoach driver yeah. She's a shotgun for protection against bandits. This came to mind because in staff meeting on Monday I said to move on something. I said let's pull the plug instead of let's pull the trigger, right, and I thought it was right when it came out and then it was obviously not let's pull the plug.
Speaker 2:Pull the plug is an expression, it just wasn't the one you meant to say. That's right, that's right.
Speaker 1:That's so funny. Yeah, yep, yep, yep, yep, all right, hey. Topic of the day Pastor Bob. All right, I want to pursue the pastorate. What steps should they walk through? So we're titling this episode On the Path to being a Pastor. Here's the question what should someone do if they begin to have an interest in pastoral ministry?
Speaker 2:That's a good topic, that's cool. I would first clarify this. I believe all Christians are called. You don't have a question? No, it's a good question. Let me clarify. I believe all Christians are called to ministry, right? So, regardless of whether you feel called to be a pastor, we've all been called by God to be on mission, be in ministry for him. There are some, however, that have been set apart to serve the church in vocational ministry. Okay, vocational meaning Meaning occupation, so your ministry equals your occupation. You're getting paid to do your ministry, and there are certain folks that are set apart by God and the church in order to fulfill that vocational ministry. So I want everybody to understand we're all called, regardless of whether you're a pastor or not. We're all called to do ministry.
Speaker 1:Would you say that calling is synonymous with the calling to follow Jesus? Yes, okay. So all being called, the call to be a follower of Jesus, is the call to be a minister of.
Speaker 2:Jesus, Be a disciple, be a minister, be a missionary all of that. It all goes hand in hand.
Speaker 1:Let's have some fun today on the podcast. Okay so, minister, you said we're all called to minister. Why have churches in the past called the pastor the minister? Small country churches often say we have a minister. Our minister's name is Pastor Bob Block. Is that just confusing the role? Is that confusing verbiage? I think it's just verbiage. Yeah it's just verbiage. Yeah, it's chosen verbiage. Is it helpful to say well, we all are ministers. Here there's one pastor who's also ministering by pastoring.
Speaker 2:I think, as long as you're clear in what you say and what you mean, words have meaning. When I was growing up in the church, there was a pastor and then there were ministers that served alongside the pastor a children's minister, minister, a worship minister sure, we've kind of changed that nomenclature over the years. Um, I, I think there's a role, position of minister, and then there's everyone is called to do ministry yeah, the word ministry means service, service.
Speaker 1:Yeah, is it necessarily an office?
Speaker 2:Minister, no yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the word deacon, in its verb form, to deacon, is the same word of to minister. Jesus came to, not to be ministered to, but to minister. He came to Diakonos Diakonos, that's good To serve, not be served, right Okay? So Deaconos Deaconos, that's good To serve, not be served, right Okay. So, that being the case, let's look particularly at the calling to pastoral ministry. Now, I do want to, because we're having fun today. I'm going to ask another question. You said there are some who may be called to receive their living wage along with their ministry or because of their ministry. Should pastors be paid?
Speaker 2:According to Scripture, they should. Yes, do you want me to back that up?
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're having fun, so I'm just going to keep asking questions. Hey everybody, we're back. We had a little bit of technical difficulty there, but we are back and we're talking about pastors being financially paid for ministry. You're bringing up a text of Scripture to kind of back that up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we were talking about some that are bivocational, that have to earn their salaries elsewhere. So we're looking in the New Testament at passages, and in 1 Timothy it says that those that preach the Word and are diligent in doing so are worthy of a double honor. So I think that that's not only being honored for what they do, I think it is also being a financial payment.
Speaker 1:In the text, widows are in mind right before. It talks about elders, talks about elders and the way to honor widows is to give them an offering to support them. And then it goes right into elders or pastors and talks about how you can honor them by also giving. There's an Old Testament precedent. We see the priests and the Levites would receive the tithe because they did not get a portion of the land to support them. And then in the New Testament, another passage is Paul telling the Corinthian church he could have asked for money from them for the ministry that he provided pastorally, even though he was a missionary. And he quotes Old Testament passages and says basically, those who minister for a living should be able to get a wage. Don't muzzle an ox when he treads the grain.
Speaker 1:Okay, so I derailed us in that whole conversation so I want to go back to the original question. So someone feels called to pastoral ministry, to the office of a pastor outlined in 1 Timothy 2, and that office being seen in the early church as well as churches today. They feel called to that particular office, they see their pastor, they want to emulate his example, they feel a unique calling to that role in the future. What's next? So what's that process?
Speaker 2:So I think you've alluded to the first step in the process, which is this the personal aspiration that they're feeling a desire, a feeling, a call to serve the church in such a capacity. And that's not just a one time at a camp. Oh, I think maybe that's something I would enjoy doing. I don't think it's something where you say, well, that would be a good job to have. I think that is something where there's just an inner assurance of the Holy Spirit that is just unshakable and a certain sense of call that just won't go away over a period of time. So it's an aspiration to a role, it's an aspiration to a ministry, it's a recognition that that ministry is a privilege and not an entitlement. So, yeah, I think it starts with the aspiration to serve.
Speaker 1:It might be tested. So if you feel like in a camp setting I feel called to ministry, it might be good to kind of let the camp, high as it has been often called, wear off a little bit. Do you still have that aspiration? Yeah, Right.
Speaker 2:In my own personal experience I know that I began to feel a call in my life while I was in middle school at a camp at Ridgecrest, didn't do anything about it, just kind of acknowledged that the, the, the sense of call was there, uh, but it was over the period of next several years that God really kind of didn't let that go away. It was unshakable. Um and then, as as we'll get into some other steps here, it was affirmed in some other conversations with people.
Speaker 1:Sometimes people might explain a call to pastoral ministry using Old Testament texts and when they do that, they often look at the prophets. Is that helpful? And here's why I ask that, because the prophets have these unique ecstatic kind of extra experiences that the average person would not have. Mm-hmm, you know Isaiah seeing seraphim and it cooling his tongue. So I think sometimes when we look back to the Old Testament to see those calls, we feel a need to try to explain the call to pastoral ministry similarly, like I saw something in the sky or everything aligned. Is that the case? What do you?
Speaker 2:think I would say for most people, no, I think it's not an aha moment. I think it's a process. I think it is God working and developing a love for the church, a love for the lost, over a period of time in your heart and then kind of funneling that towards a call that he affirms in multiple ways through his word, through his spirit, through his church. So no, I don't think most people have the aha moment oh, I'm going to be a pastor, that's what I want to do. I think it's a period of time that it takes.
Speaker 1:A new passion birthed in the heart, maybe a heart provoked for that kind of ministry. We use that word aspiration, which I think is the most helpful word, a lot of times when you look at the prophets we see calling In the New Testament we see aspiration. We see that actually in 1 Timothy 31. It gives the qualifications of a future pastor. It says this saying is trustworthy If anyone aspires to the office of the overseer or the pastor or the elder, he desires a noble task. So those two words are used right Desire, aspiration. So aspiration can be a good thing. So you said, maybe some time to develop, making sure that's genuine, that aspiration. I wrote down desire with humility and the right motive. That's tested over time, of course. So this is not man. I have a really cool idea. I want to do this and then you just jump to it. Right, this is seasoned aspiration.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the text says if anyone aspires to it, not everyone should aspire to it. Sure Right, so not everybody should. And if you don't feel a call to pastoral ministry, it's not. You're not a lesser believer, you're not lesser called, you're just not called to a particular role. But it is good to aspire to this, but not everybody needs to aspire to it Okay.
Speaker 1:First category personal aspiration. What do I do immediately after?
Speaker 2:Maybe not category next category, yet I don't know, but I would start to move the next category, because I think, if I aspire to it, the second thing for me in the process is am I qualified for it? Okay, so, moving from aspiration to it. The second thing for me in the process is am I qualified for it? So, moving from aspiration to qualification. So if I aspire to it but I don't qualify for it, then the aspiration isn't from God. It may be personal, it may be pride, it may be something, but um. So I think we have to look at scripture to say, okay, what are the qualifications for one who might serve as a pastor? Those are clearly laid out in first Timothy three, um. Which are the qualifications for one who might serve as a pastor? Those are clearly laid out in first Timothy three, um, which is the text that you've already started for us. Um, and I would say um in that.
Speaker 2:I would, I would delineate that into character, because most of first Corinthians or first Timothy three is about character. It's about the character of the person, um, are they Christ-like? Are they doing what God has called them to do? The second is competence. Do you have the ability, do you have the spiritual giftedness that God would gift someone in the capacity of a pastor or a teacher. And then is there a calling, so am I. Am I qualified with character and competence? If I have the character but I don't have the competence, I'm going to struggle. If I have competence but I don't have the character, I'm going to struggle. And if I have character and competence but I'm not called, I'm going to struggle. So am I qualified for the role that I feel God calling me to?
Speaker 1:A lot of those qualifications, like you said, are characteristics, right? Right, they're looking at how's your life, can you lead, and who do you love? Do you love? Well, I looked at a few books here that have talked about calling and they ask questions like are you godly, how's your home? Can you teach, can you shepherd, do you love the lost? And then you see that text in 1 Timothy 3 kind of ends with how's your reputation, even among the lost? Right, that matters, because in a lot of ways you're the representative of the church to the culture, right? Yeah, good, now I think you hit on something there.
Speaker 1:There has been a common saying when it comes to the call to salvation that God does not call the qualified, that he qualifies the called.
Speaker 1:And this is absolutely true.
Speaker 1:We just looked at a text last night in Colossians that said Jesus qualifies us to be in the presence of the Father by his own word. But I want to be careful here, because when we look to the position of pastoral ministry or the office of pastor here, because when we look to the position of pastoral ministry or the office of pastor, it is not necessarily true that you're just qualified because you got called to the ministry. In fact, the affirmation of genuine calling is the qualification for the role. Does that make sense? So if you are not yet qualified, you are not yet called to serve in that particular role? Now there might be a calling on your life to get quote-unquote qualified, generally speaking, but I don't know that you're called to that role at all if you're not yet qualified, because the qualifications themselves are not really unique to pastoral ministry. They're qualifications for all Christians, aside from able to teach and aside from not being a young convert, right? So the pastor is to be the representative of these characteristics for that church, the model representative, yeah.
Speaker 2:An exemplary model. Yeah, which is redundant, but an exemplary person following those characteristics.
Speaker 1:Do you aspire to the role? Are you qualified for the role?
Speaker 2:Maybe. What's the next? Yeah, so ask aspiration, qualification. Is the character there, is there competency there, is there spiritual giftedness? There is the calling there. And then I would say affirmation would be the third step. It has. Has anyone affirmed this call in your life? Has anybody said, hey, have you ever thought about becoming a pastor? I see potential in you. Those called to vocational ministry have a heart to serve and a competency in serving, and that's clear to other people. They'll see it and the church should affirm that in you. That's good and the church should affirm that in you.
Speaker 1:That's good. Yeah, if you go to your pastor and he's just like I don't see it, it might take some time. If you go to your parents and they say I don't see it and they're believers who care for your soul, who are good members of their local church, and they're like I don't see it, the Lord may change their heart. It may take some time. So we started with personal aspiration 1 Timothy 3.1. Then character qualification 1 Timothy 3, going on through verse 7. And then church affirmation.
Speaker 1:I think there is a text for this. 1 Timothy 5 talks about laying on of hands, right as it talks about the elders, which is the text we use a lot of times for ordination, and it says be really careful, being too quick to lay on hands on a person, on a future elder, affirming their calling. And I think that's because what it says, because some sins show themselves over time. Some sins show themselves over time. So, yeah, it says this is a slow process of the church saying yes and amen. We do feel like the Lord has called you to this. We want to affirm that as you look for opportunity, sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sure, and from a practical standpoint this looks like. Is the church coming to you asking you to serve in particular roles? If you're in student ministry and you feel a call to pastoral ministry and you still your church still does a youth week, you know where they assign the tasks or roles to certain. Are they coming to you and saying would you be the youth pastor for the week? Is there somebody that's asked you to fill in a Sunday school class, core group class or teaching in vacation Bible school, and then come up afterwards and said man, I really believe you have the gift of teaching, so there's some practical things that take place in this. Is there a minister on staff saying why don't you come work alongside me for a little while and kind of learn some things?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So is it possible then that there could be, let's say, a I'm going to pick a random age a 35 year old man inside of the church who's been asked to lead in teaching groups or something like that and asked quite a bit, and then he begins to say, maybe I do have a desire, and the question provokes the external question, provokes the internal question, and then goes back to personal aspiration, then character qualification. So it could, in some ways, the whole process that we're describing could be started by some affirmation.
Speaker 2:It very well could be. It could be started by people who care about you, who have spiritual insight, looking at you and noting spiritual giftedness, and saying have you ever considered? And that might start something inside of you that says, well, no, I haven't, but maybe I should.
Speaker 1:So in this category, would you put, in the affirmation category potentially the ordination. So it's the church saying yes and amen.
Speaker 2:Now, ultimately, yes, I would add that later. But yes, ultimately you need the church to affirm the decision in a formal setting, in a formal way. We are setting you apart for this role, so you can put it here if you want. I wouldn't put it here yet.
Speaker 1:You can wait until there's actually a role to be in.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Okay, personal aspiration, character qualification, church affirmation I love the uns. You added one I didn't put on here, which I think is very helpful Education.
Speaker 2:Education, yeah, and I'm not necessarily talking about formal education. I think once you have determined that God is leading you to be a pastor, he's calling you and that's been affirmed through your local church, then I think there should be a process of you educating yourself on what does that look like? What does that practically look like? How can I best prepare myself to do that? How can I stoke the spiritual gifts that are in me? And so I would say there's three areas there. There's experiential.
Speaker 2:So if you feel called to pastoral ministry, then don't wait to be called to be a pastor to start serving. Serve any way. You can serve anywhere. You can serve and serve and serve until God points you in the right direction, Right, Um? So experiential just get in there and serve, serve people, learn what it's like to lead people, learn what it's like to serve people. Secondly, I would say there's practical education, so where the local church comes alongside you and says we want to help you in a very practical way, whether that's through an internship or a mentorship, a residency, let you kind of behind the scenes.
Speaker 2:Come to the meetings, let's talk about what ministry looks like. Let's well, how does this work? What is it so? Um, there's a experiential to serve. There's practical internship, internship, mentorship, um, and then there's theological training. Uh, I think if you're going to be a pastor and you're going to teach and preach the word, you need to know the word, you need to be trained in it, to study it, and so I think there's formal theological training that should take place Now. That I don't think has to be in place before your ordination, before you're actually starting to serve, but I do think it's part of the overall process of becoming the pastor that you're called to be.
Speaker 1:I think one of the most helpful things about seminary is not just the Greek behind the English in your New Testament, but helping make categories for the importance of some doctrines, the history of interpretation, even categorizing. Okay, how do I think about the importance of this versus the importance of this? I think that's one of the most important things, so that we don't make mountains out of mole hills, we don't make every hill one to die on and we don't become so theologically in an echo chamber. I think it's good to kind of go through the challenges that come alongside seminary. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I think your assurance of God's call on your life to do pastoral ministry is and your theological education is your foundation. So your personal relationship with God that has led you to serve him in the local church, and then your theological education, which is systematic in nature. That's your foundation. From there you add the practical. You add okay, how does this show itself in life? How do I teach this? How do I love people? How do I baptize somebody? How do I minister in a hospital? How do I do a funeral? How do I do a wedding? All of those things are practical that you don't always learn in seminary. You would think you would learn all that in seminary. You don't always do that. It just gives you the theological basis on which you build your ministry.
Speaker 1:So a person has now aspired to the role. So a person has now aspired to the role. They have character that backs it up. They are affirmed by members in their church. Along with their pastor, they have looked up residencies, internships. Maybe they've went to seminary. What's next?
Speaker 2:I think then the final step would be formal installation, where the church sets you apart, much like the church that enacts and says we've recognized these people have gifts and we're going to send them out, laid hands on them and send them out or employ them. Yeah, so I would say the final step is for the church to do that formal step of installation, um, formally being set apart by a church, which probably will include some kind of ordination council you mentioned ordination earlier Just the setting apart to say we recognize this is God's gift in your life, this is God's call on your life, we affirm that and we want you to use that. So, whether that's with us or somewhere else, so it's a church doing this formal installation into ministry.
Speaker 1:That's good. So there's the role, and then the servant. Mm-hmm, yeah, it's good. So there's the role, and then the servant. So maybe someone's listening to this and they're thinking maybe that's me, we've kind of walked through the path. If they're in our own church, what would you say?
Speaker 2:first, let us know, yeah, I would say, continue to pray about it. I would say I always give the advice to anybody who speaks to me about this is, if you can do anything else and be satisfied, that's what you're supposed to do. If you can do any other occupation and be content, then that's what you can do, and God can still use you in ministry in that, you can still serve him in that. But if this is just a, it just won't go away. You cannot be satisfied doing anything but serving God through the local church, preaching and teaching his word. Then pursue it. And so I would say, if that's you, then yeah, come talk to us. Let us know that. Um, we probably won't be surprised if you come and tell us that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I would say, even before you come and tell us, just read over first Timothy 3 and Titus 1. Yeah, Because that is a sort of filter. That's intended Because probably one of the first things we're going to do. If you just come talk to us first, that's probably the first thing we're going to do, for sure, perfect. Well, this may be one of our shorter episodes. I say that it says 19 minutes here.
Speaker 2:We did record a whole section before that. The banter and Kara's been really quiet today, I think.
Speaker 3:I'm just ashamed.
Speaker 2:We did not let the cat out of the bag of how we lost power.
Speaker 3:Okay, my bad, that wasn't, yeah, whatever.
Speaker 2:No one would have known. No one would have known. You told on yourself no one would have known.
Speaker 3:Oh my bad, I can just cut this out too. You're quiet because you love your pastors.
Speaker 1:You're thankful for their leadership.
Speaker 3:Exactly.
Speaker 1:That's right, that's right, that's right.
Speaker 3:I'm just resonating in it, you know yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, we're thankful for members like you, mistakes and all Imperfect though we may be, oh goodness. Well, thanks for listening in. We hope this episode's been helpful and maybe you do feel a calling or an aspiration to ministry. Let us know. We'd love to hear about it. You can't see it, but Bob's vibing. Oh yeah, thank you.
