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Med School Minutes
Med School Minutes is where we discuss all things related to medical education. Provided by Saint James School of Medicine, this podcast tries to educate students on selecting and successfully completing a medical school. Our topics are fun and educational, and our hosts are knowledgeable and fun.
Med School Minutes
Med School Minutes – Ep. 50 – Biohacking Basics with Dr. Mike Van Thielen
🎙️ In this episode we sit down with Dr. Mike Van Thielen—biohacking expert, PhD in holistic nutrition, TEDx speaker, and record-setting athlete. From mastering your mindset to improving test performance and reversing biological age, Dr. Mike shares powerful, practical tools for students and professionals alike.
💡 Learn how breathwork, belief systems, and daily routines can help you stay focused, reduce anxiety, and unlock your full potential—no matter your age or background.
📌 Whether you're a med student, entrepreneur, or just looking to level up your health and performance, this episode is packed with insights you won’t want to miss.
Hello and welcome to another episode of the Med School Minutes podcast, where we discuss what it takes to attend and successfully complete a medical program. This show is brought to you by St James School of Medicine. Here is your host, kaushik Guha.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for joining us on another episode of Med School Minutes, where we talk about everything related to medicine, with a focus on international students, specifically students in the Caribbean. Today we have a very interesting guest. His name is Dr Mike Van Thielen. He is a PhD in holistic nutrition, physician, mentor, biohacking expert, best-selling author, a TEDx speaker and an international keynote and motivational speaker. Today we're going to ask Dr Mike exactly what is biohacking and how this can really benefit you. Whether you're a student, an athlete, an entrepreneur, no matter what walk of life you are, we want to be able to tap into the secrets of what biohacking is. So, without further ado, let us welcome Dr Mike Van Thielen. Thank you so much, dr Mike, for joining us today. I really, really appreciate it. So you know, before we even begin, why don't you give us a little bit about a background of yourself?
Speaker 3:Sure, I'll do a little short background about a background of yourself. Sure, I'll do a little short background. If you can hear me, I have an accent. I'm originally from Belgium but I came here in 1997 when I was 26. I'm 53 now and I came here as a licensed physical therapist in Belgium. I was into sports, so I did physical education at the University of Brussels, which was fun. But what really are you going to do with a pe degree? Right, then I decided to do physical therapy afterwards and then also at that time traveled, uh, the world with the belgian olympic swimmers in preparation for the atlanta games in 1996. And so after that, um, they were short of physical therapists in the united states, so I was recruited. I saved four hundred dollars, picked my backpack, put jeans on and came. Live the American dream.
Speaker 3:But when I came here I got more and more interested in alternative medicine practices. So I ended up going back to school, to the Florida College of Integrative Medicine, got my license in acupuncture, doctor of oriental medicine, board certified in Chinese herbs homeopathy the whole nine yards. But after about a thousand patients I got pretty frustrated because these modalities are indeed less invasive than conventional medicine, meaning drugs, injections and surgeries, but I really didn't get the lasting results I was hoping for either. So I decided I need to go back to basics, and that's when I got my PhD in holistic nutrition. But I also started to look at Mother Nature, because I believe Mother Nature would have the answer to health, and so I started to use animals in the wild as my second opinion and just simply ask what do they do in this situation? And by combining those I became very comfortable in helping anybody overcome any medical condition, whether that's cancer or whether that's just a common flu or anything in between. I became very confident in helping anybody, and that's when I started to write books. I got 10 books now.
Speaker 3:That's when I started to do a lot of keynote and motivational speaking to encourage people to take control of their own health. And you know, that's kind of where it all started. In the early 2000s I became the CEO of a regenerative medicine company stem cell based therapies and since then I've talked on stages like the A4M on molecular hydrogen, published many articles, and so I try to stay on the forefront not just of health and wellness but also longevity, and so today it's kind of called biohacking it's one of those terms that is a buzzword right now. So today I'm considered an expert in biohacking, which is an amorphous term with many different, different uh definitions. Uh, but we can go in uh to that a little bit later. I assume Today I'm just a coach and a mentor and I do a lot of one-on-one training and a lot of virtual training online for students, professionals, entrepreneurs and athletes alike.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for that introduction, Dr Mike. So before we jump into the more details about biohacking, I also want to talk to you about your TEDx. You've given a lot of speeches and lectures on TEDx. Can you tell us a little bit about that? What did you really talk?
Speaker 3:about. I did one TEDx talk, but that was mostly about how to be present in the moment, because when we talk about biohacking, you will see that we really all need to upgrade to mind. With that I mean we need to work on our belief systems, we need to work on the things that we think and the words that we speak words that we speak. We need to be pulled forward by our future and by our goals and dreams and not be held back by our past experiences, which we wrongly label as failures, because they're not failures, they're lessons, right. And so I really teach on how to upgrade that mind, and so one of the things that I teach is how to be in the zone which is flow, state. Right, because that's where we produce, that's where we bring our aim game, that's where we will ace a test, right, right and um. And so you need to understand that it's not something that's just for athletes or musicians, it's a skill that everybody can acquire. So I teach that, but I also teach people how to be present in the moment, because most of us, we're always living in the past, you know, or we live in the future, we're projecting into the future, but we never are present in the moment, and so the TEDx talk happened to be about how a simple piece of breath work, a minute of breath work, which is called a reset breath, could actually pull ourselves into the present moment, which is called a reset breath.
Speaker 3:Could actually pull ourselves into the present moment because a breath, you know we're the first thing we do when we're born is breathe, and the last thing we will do when we leave this, this earth, is, is take a breath.
Speaker 3:But a breath is all there is always with us in the present moment, and so for those who, uh, who, heard about breath work it's, it's probably one of the number one biohacks is to learn how to breathe properly, but also utilize your breath for many different purposes to get present in the moment, or to get into a meditative state, or to get from a sympathetic into a parasympathetic state.
Speaker 3:So using your breath as a tool to accomplish those things that I just mentioned is a powerful free tool that everybody can master. So the TEDx talk is to how to use a reset breath to pull yourself into the present moment, so you can be present and, you know, enjoy the moment, or be engaged in a conversation with your loved ones right or engaged in class, like if your students are following classes, if they're thinking about what just happened an hour ago on the conversation with their parents, or they're thinking about next weekend, what are they going to do Then? Obviously, they're not going to absorb that material as much as they would be present in the moment and fully engaged in what's happening right now, and so that, well, that's what the ted aesthetics talk is about.
Speaker 2:So check it out oh yeah, absolutely we will. So it almost sounds like you are training people to be a better version of themselves. Is that you know? Is that a good summary?
Speaker 3:that's a great summary. I um, I, uh. What I do is I maximize performance through self-optimization. I do that one-on-one, but I also have a virtual online training that we could discuss too, because I would love to do something for the students. It's usually a six-week virtual program. I'm actually also making it an online course, so we can make that available.
Speaker 3:But what we do there is I help people to get to that next level, whether they are entrepreneurs or professionals, or whether they are students, or whether they are athletes or whether they're just John Doe that wants to climb up in life or get to that next level.
Speaker 3:It doesn't matter what they're doing arts, performance, it doesn't matter and I'm not helping them hone in on their skill, because I'm not a wrestler, I'm not a finance guy, I'm not an engineer, I'm currently not a student, right, so I can't help them there.
Speaker 3:But what I do is I upgrade to body, the mind and life, and so by getting you to a much healthier space, physically, but also mentally and also life, meaning being organized, because we're always distracted. So it's about having a purpose, having a plan, eliminating the distractions, only engaging in projects that you love to do and that are in line with your purpose and your goals, and saving time. We always feel that we're busy, busy, busy, but you would be surprised how many hours I can free up in every person's day and so it's also getting organized and creating clarity, because most of us are worried and stressed because we're not in control of our life, right, and so the more control we have of our agenda of tomorrow and the next day and next week and next month. The more control, the more clarity and the more clarity that we create, the less stress that we have right.
Speaker 3:So, it's, yes, it's about optimizing our body, our health. It's about upgrading the mind, which I think is one of the most important things, because if you think you're going to fail a test, guess what right You're most likely going to fail a test. Guess what right you're most likely going to fail it. So if, if there's doubt, the universe has two options failure or success. But if we work on your belief system and you are 100 convinced that you're not only going to pass a test but graduate you know um Q Lambda, a Q Lambda, and and then become this person in your life and reach your goals and dreams, and if you are convinced of that, because we worked on your mindset but also made a very, you know, made a plan that's going to bring us there.
Speaker 3:Because most of the time, our dreams, when they're big, they're overwhelming, and when they're overwhelmed, we think, oh, we can't reach those. So it's important that we have a plan and we bake, we break that big dream down in, you know, smaller incremental steps, from years to months, to weeks to days. What small incremental step can I do tomorrow, even if it's only five or ten minutes, that brings me closer to my goals and dreams and gives me fulfillment today, right so? So it's all about purpose, plan, plan and upgrading the body, the mind and life, and then, with all that information, we customize what I call a power routine. It's something that you do on a daily basis, that you can count on to get you a step closer to those goals and dreams, and so it's a very exciting six-week program that can help anybody get to that next level and the next level and the next level.
Speaker 2:Wow. So you definitely know something about this, because it seems like you have honed a lot of these skills through competition and some of the achievements and if I'm not mistaken, you are a record-setting swimmer as well.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I do have a world record in the 45 plus and I have many records when I was young to swimming records. So yes, I was very competitive as a young boy, I would say. But right now I'm trying to be smarter, because when I swamam I was age 47, 1990, 97, I was 47, now I'm 53. But all my competitors, they would be in the swimming pool at least two hours per day and then they would go to the gym too. I only swam three times, 75 minutes per week, but I biohacked. In other words, I did everything else to upgrade my body, my mind. But biohacking many definitions, but to me it's from a health point of view or performance point of view. It is objectively reversing our biological age. So if I'm competing in the 45 plus as a 47 year old but my body is only 35, then obviously I'm going to have a very big advantage, right, and I believe that today, everybody that implements these strategies can do that.
Speaker 3:You don't have to be an elite, you don't have to have money, because most of those strategies are foundational things that we have to incorporate on a daily basis. But we're always too focused on our chronological age, which is our date of birth, right. But it really doesn't mean anything because, if we think about it, we all know that person that's 60, 65 years old and that's in and out of the hospital all the time, has two pages of medications, you know, looks like 85, about to die, and we all know that person. But we also know that person that's 80, 90 years old, that is very witty, 100% independent, still plays golf every week, three times a week. So you can see that chronological age doesn't mean much. It's our biological age. How young are our cells, our mitochondria, our tissues, our organs, et cetera? And so today we can objectively measure, you know, a reversal of our biological age. So we can go back in time and we can objectively measure that, measure the success of the strategies that we implement.
Speaker 2:Okay so, but Dr Mike, can you explain why it's called biohacking?
Speaker 3:Well, like I said, it's an amorphous term that is just a buzzword right now. It's not the best term, I believe, because hacking is taking a shortcut, and so in health, you can't take shortcuts. People always are waiting for the next fad diet or the next magic pill, or, you know, they're thinking that the CDC is gonna come up with some kind of a pill that eradicates cancer. That will never happen, believe me. That will never happen. You are in control of your health, your mind's in control of your body, and so you're your own healer, and nobody can heal yourself but yourself. And it all starts with your mind. It all starts with emotional emotion, emotional trauma and clearing that trauma. It starts about doing the right things for your body, because our body is so complicated and the best way to illustrate that is is just with numbers. Right, because students listening and numbers, uh, or statistics are always fun, but they're so immense.
Speaker 3:When we talk about the human physiology and human body, you know, some people say we have 40 trillion cells. Others say 100 trillion who cares? It's a number that we can't phantom number one. But let's say we got 40 trillion cells right Now, each cell has a few hundred to a few hundred thousand mitochondria which, as you know, are our energy producing factories, right? They produce our energy in the form of ATP. So, for example, our skin cells only have a few hundred mitochondria, while more energy intensive, intensive organs, for example, like the liver, our muscle, our brain, has tens of thousands of mitochondria per cell, but our heart has a few hundred thousand mitochondria per cell. So we have 40 trillion cells and 10 000 to 100 000 mitochondria for each one of those. Now, each mitochondrion, each mitochondrion, produces 2 billion atp per minute. Oh, wow, 80 per minute. So we need that energy to do. To do what? To sustain the 1.8 quadrillion chemical reactions per per day, right?
Speaker 3:So, next time somebody asks you if you're busy, you say yes, extremely. What I want to point out is that we got to start to understand, when it comes to health, that if we as humans want to intervene in that very complex system of billions and quadrillions of chemical reactions and things that are going on, and we think that giving a medication or doing an injection or a surgery and taking away an organ that that's going to benefit that organism, that's kind of laughable, right? We need to understand that drugs don't cure, injections don't cure, surgeries don't cure, supplements don't cure, healthy food doesn't cure. You know, exercising doesn't cure.
Speaker 3:Only the body can heal itself, and we need to start to understand that the only thing that we can do is make sure that the body is in balance, that it's in homeostasis and that we give it the tools so that it can heal itself. And so that's our job not to interfere but to make sure the body is in balance, that there's no, you know, flight or fight or systemic inflammation going on, because then the body is in a state of emergency, right. So we need to always help the body balance itself and then we'll take care of anything, including cancer. That's kind of, basically, when we talk about numbers to hopefully give you an idea that just intervening with something may disrupt something, but it's not going to have any long-lasting results. I got you.
Speaker 2:So as far as biohacking is concerned, I mean, as you know, we deal with students and our students are range from everything from literally 19 to actually 17 and some of the youngest we've seen all the way through 58 or even more.
Speaker 3:I'm 53 and I'm just starting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's the attitude that we want to see in people. But what do you think is a good age to start thinking about, say, biohacking?
Speaker 3:Immediately. It's never too late, number one. But you want to slow down aging, don't you? And you want to. You know, when I was saying earlier about chronological age, I believe truly that everybody easily can be 100 years of age chronologically. But that's not important. The importance is that at age 100, you can do things that a 40, 50 year old can do, meaning you still can travel, you can play golf, you can go to your grand, grand, grand kid's wedding, so that's what it is. It's health span, it's quality of life. And so if you start doing it young, then obviously you know it's going to be easier.
Speaker 3:Because we think, we humans, we think that aging is linear, we think time's linear, but aging is not linear. Aging is exponential. So the longer we wait, the harder it is to overcome and reverse, because we need to counteract that exponentially also. So if you're young it's going to be much easier to keep up with it. But if you're 50, 60, again you can get to 100 and do the things at age 100 that you're doing now at 50, 60. Because as you chronologically add an age, what if you biologically reverse an age? Then you stay right here where you are right now. So if you're listening and you're 55, you know. The question is do you want to be yourself, feeling yourself, looking the way you look now and doing the things you do now when you're 100 years old? If the answer is yes, start now. Okay.
Speaker 2:Oh, wow.
Speaker 2:So one question I did have is that and this is a relatively recent phenomenon, I mean, our school is 26 years old we and this is a relatively recent phenomenon, I mean, our school is 26 years old We've seen students right through the whole gamut of things and what we've noticed over the last couple of years is that student quality is getting better.
Speaker 2:However, test-taking ability has become worse, in the sense that even you know, undergraduate programs and things like that are changing the way students are tested, because apparently it induces a lot of stress, etc. However, for almost any profession and you know this as well as as well as well as anybody else it's completely governed by standardized tests. So universities might do whatever they want to push students through and make them comfortable, but at the end of the day, to become a physician, for example, you have to take three licensing examinations once you become a physician. Every couple of years, you have to take board exams and and remain relevant. But if a student and we've seen this over and over again a lot of students are having test taking anxiety and they're student, and we've seen this over and over again a lot of students are having test taking anxiety, and they're brilliant students they're. They know the material in and out, but when they're taking the test, they're just not being able to perform. Does biohacking help in that situation, and how does it if it does?
Speaker 3:yes, of course. Um, it's all about the mind, what people and there's so many good books out there but what people need to start looking into is that only you create your world. We always like to blame external factors. It's the professor that can't teach, it's the curriculum it's too much. Uh, the test I didn't have enough time, it's always the X.
Speaker 3:We always blame external factors, but the plain truth is that we create our own movie. We create every detail and it starts with your thoughts and then it starts and then it continues with your spoken words and your belief system spoken words and your belief system. And it's so powerful because people that think negatively all the time and blame others, they are going to end up with lots of diseases. And people that are positive and optimistic and learn to utilize their thinking power and realize that their thinking power creates their world, they're going to be the successful people. No matter how intelligent you are, no matter how strong you are, it doesn't matter. Your thoughts is the most important thing. And anxiety is just an expression of either a faulty thinking pattern, because again, we said it to actually to earlier. We said it, but we kind of laughing about it. But it's so true.
Speaker 3:If you think you're going to fail, there's a much higher chance you will fail. It's not a hundred percent because there's also something inside of things. With a little bit of luck I'll pass. And you're justifying and I did study not long enough, I started late, but I did study. So maybe, if I'm lucky, based on the questions because I know chapter one to 10, good, 10 to 20, not so good, so hopefully there's a lot of. So there's also a little bit of hope and a little bit of positivity.
Speaker 3:If you're a hundred percent convinced you failed and you will a hundred percent fail. But it's this balance and it all starts here. Now, on the other side, if you're 100 think you're gonna pass without studying, that's not gonna work either, because the fact is that if you didn't study, you know that the likelihood passing is less. So it's also about truth. What is the truth inside of you, right? Um, you can't take, you can't trick your own mind is what I'm trying to say. You can say things, but if you don't believe him, it doesn't matter what you say, right?
Speaker 3:So it starts with really exercising, and there's plenty of books and YouTube and things out there, or coaches like myself and others, where you got to really become an observer of your own thinking and whatever is negative or which is jealousy and judging other people and pointing fingers or just thinking like, oh my God, I'm going to fail something negative, or I feel frustrated. Oh my god, I'm gonna fail something negative. Or I feel frustrated, or I feel jealous, or I am fearing this testimony, or I'm worried because my parents are paying and if I don't pass, so now I'm worried and it's all these negative emotions. But those negative emotions are attracting negative outcomes. You're more likely to get in the situation because your mind's the blueprint. If you mostly think you're going to fail and you're going to get in trouble and you're not going to do this, then that's your most likely situation that's going to happen. So you can prevent it by starting to rewire your thoughts and so step out of yourself, start to be conscious about what you're thinking, and if it's something negative, then you're going to recognize that. But you're going to reframe it right. Okay, and so it's the same. So that's important.
Speaker 3:And the other thing is, I think, emotional trauma, which can be even generational. When you're born, you have trauma with you from your parents and your previous generation which is locked in there, but all our life experiences. They cause emotional trauma and the vast majority of us they don't deal with that, they don't face it or cope with it and it sits in our body as an extra, extra weight, a scar, whatever it may be. It sits there and so many times what I've seen people with emotional trauma will express that as, for example, anxiety. The anxiety is related to something in the past. I can give you an example, if you like something in the past. I can give you an example, if you like. This is a real life, not a client of mine, but of a friend of mine. So she does emotional work and mind work and those types of things.
Speaker 3:But he was a very successful businessman who finally, after many years, became the CEO of a company and that's what his goal was. So he succeeded in his goal, right. And he goes to the new company and he goes on stage and he gets a heart attack. He survived, but he gets a heart attack which he didn't understand because he was healthy, he was exercising, he was in shape and again he just got a promotion. He was happy, right.
Speaker 3:What happened was to all the not the therapy, but asking questions. It's like when he was four years old in elementary school, whatever it may be, he went on stage and his three best friends were sitting up front, and when they went on stage they laughed at him and the teacher was not paying attention, looking down, so she didn't come to his rescue either, didn't come to her to his rescue either. And so from that moment on, as a kid, we make decisions in our minds, and so the limitations, the limitations that he created was I cannot trust women because it was a female teacher. So in his whole life he never trusted women, never was married. He didn't trust women. But he didn't know. It came from that teacher, right, and he told that person that laughed at him I'll be much more successful than you. So his whole life was driven on being successful and showing other people what he could do. But he put that all away and never realized that, and so that's why he got a heart attack.
Speaker 3:The reason he got a heart attack because he was put in that same situation going on stage and he made that connection to the four-year-old and the emotions were so big that it just exploded right. And so most of us don't realize those things, but I encourage people to read more about emotions, trapped emotions the Em emotional code is a good book and start counter releasing emotions, because it's usually emotions that express physically, whether that shoulder pain, whether it's anxiety, whether it's a heart attack. He was in perfect health. His blood work, his arteries were clean, he worked out out, he ate, healthy, but that's not what caused the heart attack, see.
Speaker 3:And so to get back to what we're talking about is, when it comes to that anxiety and stress taking, you cannot overcome that with some kind of a medication or a therapist. You need to change your thinking about taking the test. And maybe you had a bad experience in the past and now you told yourself that it's not fair taking tests. Because I'm smart, I understand the materials. When I do a book report or whatever it is, I get great grades and when I do a test, you know so the test is not fair.
Speaker 3:It's external factors, it's not a way you should, you know, evaluate my competency and whatever it may be. And it's all these external factors. But it's something simple inside of you that you can fix. And because you're not going to fix the, you know the way universities made doctors do testing for medical. You can't fix that, but what you can fix is the way you look at it, because it's all in the mind. It's not that you can take the test. There's something blocking you and giving you that anxiety and putting you in what we call a limbic state. Um, you're not in your conscious anymore, you're in a flight or fight, and so now you become more of an animal versus a reasonable human being, and that's why you can't take the test properly versus a reasonable human being, and that's why you can't take the test properly, you know that actually makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 2:So how does the concept of, say, manifestation play in biohacking?
Speaker 3:Manifestation it depends. Manifestation can work, but there's many components on it. If you just make a vision board and read it every morning, if you just visualize, you know you passing the test or becoming the best brain surgeon in the world, that's good, but there's more to it. It won't come to you by just putting it out there. You'll have to practice it every day and you have to recognize the resources. But most of all, you need to believe it. And that's the problem when you write things down and read them or say them.
Speaker 3:If your soul doesn't truly believe what you're saying while you're saying it, it will not come back to you. And so many people that practice it it's not coming to them because they really didn't believe it. So we got to work on the belief system. Once you believe that you earn to be a millionaire, or that you earn to win Olympic gold, or that you earn to be debt-free and have financial freedom for you and your family, that you believe that you earn it it's your birthright anyways. But if you believe it and then manifest it, then it will come to you. But if you just say things and repeat things but the belief system's not there, you're wasting your time. That's very interesting.
Speaker 2:So one question I did have is, as you mentioned, there are courses out there. I know you have not a course, but a course right. A six-week program that you run does. Is this does the efficacy reduce or increase if it's one-on-one versus a group setting? Is this something that's deployable in, say, a classroom, so to speak?
Speaker 3:yeah, no, it would be excellent in a classroom. I only do small groups anyways. I do 10 to 12 people maximum because we can customize things that way. If we do it with hundreds of people, we don't. So currently I do the limited group six-week program, but I am recording the videos as we speak. Probably somewhere next month it will be available where it's a download of an online course. So now you go at your own pace. There's worksheets, you get your own pace, but there will be weekly calls for you then to come on and ask your personal questions. So you still have support and guidance from me personally, but you go to the course at your own pace. Whether it takes you a year or two weeks, it doesn't really matter. You go through it and then you obviously can always email. You can go to the weekly calls and we also will be we're working on it a community where you not just ask me questions, but other people in your community that are taking the course. They may have the answer also right To your question yeah, okay, excellent.
Speaker 2:So from a student's perspective, obviously we talked a little bit about exam performance and reducing essentially the anxiety to improve the performance. Do you see any other advantages that a student might have from biohacking?
Speaker 3:Well, yeah, they're enormous. It's it's upgrading again the body and the mind. So think about this no matter what profession you are, whether you're an athlete or an artist or any type of other performer, or you're a finance guy or an entrepreneur or a car salesman, if you are healthier, are you going to perform better, yes or no? Yeah, absolutely, of course. If you're mind sharper and you know how to focus and you know how to be present in the moment, are you going to perform better? No matter, it is what you do. Yes, you are.
Speaker 3:So, no matter what it is that you're doing now you're going to do later in life, the skills that you will learn to upgrade your body and mind and life are going to be with you forever and always, propel you to that next level, and it's something that we teach you so you can do it without us, even with the body. I am convinced that what I teach you about health will put you in a position where you will be able to heal yourself and your loved ones and know exactly what to do. We teach you how to optimize your immune system, how to repair your DNA, how to keep your body in balance and all those types of things and they are not difficult, but they are common sense.
Speaker 2:All right, Awesome. Thank you so much for a very, very insightful discussion on what exactly is biohacking and how this really may benefit any individual, whether irrespective of their age, on how to optimize their performance. Again, once again, thank you so much, Dr Mike Van Thielen. We really appreciate your time and remember there is no shortcut to becoming an MD. If you really like our content, please feel free to download our podcast from any of the podcast providers, whether it's Spotify, the Google Store or wherever it is you get your content from. And also don't forget to give us a like and a follow, because it goes a long way for us and our production team. Thank you so much and until next time.
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