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Med School Minutes
Med School Minutes is where we discuss all things related to medical education. Provided by Saint James School of Medicine, this podcast tries to educate students on selecting and successfully completing a medical school. Our topics are fun and educational, and our hosts are knowledgeable and fun.
Med School Minutes
Med School Minutes-Ep. 54 | Universities That Don’t Change Will Be Left Behind w/ Dr. Moez Limayem
What happens when universities refuse to change? 🚨 Dr. Moez Limayem, President of the University of North Florida, joins us in St. Vincent to talk about the future of higher education, why banning AI will not work, and how micro-credentials might replace traditional degrees. The jet of innovation is taking off.
Will universities get on board or be left behind? Watch the new episode of Med School Minutes and find out.
#MedSchoolMinutes #SaintJamesSchoolOfMedicine #HigherEducation #FutureOfEducation #ArtificialIntelligence #CriticalThinking #MedicalEducation #AIinEducation #UniversityLife #EducationInnovation #sjsm
Hello and welcome to another episode of the Med School Minutes podcast, where we discuss what it takes to attend and successfully complete a medical program. This show is brought to you by St James School of Medicine. Here is your host, kaushik Guha.
Speaker 2:Welcome to another episode of Med School Minutes. Today we're filming from the sunny shores of St Vincent, and our very special guest is Dr Moez Limayem. He is the president of University of North Florida and we're going to talk to him and pick his brain a little bit about the future of higher education, especially while we're in the midst of this AI and information revolution that is going on. So, without further ado, let's welcome dr limayan. All right, dr uh moines limayan. Thank you so much for joining us today in beautiful sunny saint vincent. Uh, I hope you're enjoying your stay with us thank you.
Speaker 3:Thank you so much for having me. It's been just a wonderful stay, uh, just a a great time meeting your wonderful students, your amazing faculty and and the administration. It has been really a joy, thank you.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you so much for the compliment. You know, why don't we just dive right into it and give us a little bit about your background, how you came to the United States and how you ended up as the president, which is, in lay speak, the CEO? What a CEO of a corporation is a president of an educational institution?
Speaker 3:So why don't you give us Thank you? I'll try to give you at least the elevator pitch and not bore you with a lot of details. So I'm originally from Tunisia, born to just great parents. My mother was just a loving mother and completely illiterate, but one of the smartest people I've ever met, and my father was an educator. He was an elementary school teacher, then was assigned to be the principal of elementary school in a very poor city in the east of Tunisia, and I remember very well when I was probably three, four years old, of course there was no electricity. He will take the only oil lamp that we have at our disposal at home to go and use it to give pro bono tutoring for the students so that he can prepare them for a very difficult national exam that will allow them at a very young age to either go to high school or stop and do something else. So the passing rate is less than 30 percent and because of his dedication to his students he reached a passing rate of 100 percent. Yeah, and I was, I remember also vividly asking the question that why do you take the only oil lamp we have? And and you leave us with that, with the candles? And he said you know, son, these students need it more than we do they. They need it so that we can change their lives and they change the lives of their families and become great citizen. And so what he was really talking to me about that very young age is the value of education in transforming lives and also student success and commitment to students, and so I was born with that. At home it's a family affair. If you want, then fast forward.
Speaker 3:I went to the Institut Supérieur de Gestion, which is a premier school of business in Tunis, the capital. The very first day, the Dean and the orientation said I have some good news and some bad news. Okay, what is the good news? The good news is that they have a scholarship for students to go to the US, fully full ride, airplane, tuition fees, books, everything. It was like really a dream come true. It was like, wow, this is great. What's the bad news? The bad news is I won scholarship and bought 3,500 students, wow. So I really made it as a goal to get that scholarship.
Speaker 3:Luckily, I did get it and went to University of Minnesota. I did my MBA, phd Okay, went to. Then my first job was in Canada Okay, quebec. Met my beautiful wife, dr Alia. Then we moved to Hong Kong. Okay, a few years in Hong Kong, then Switzerland, and then from Switzerland back to the US via the University of Arkansas, the University of South Florida, as dean and since 2022, I've been the president of this great university, the University of North Florida. So it's a really long journey. But what is really important, for me at least, is that I went through all the ranks for academia. I started as as a teaching assistant, research assistant, then graduated, became assistant professor, then associate professor, then department chair, then full professor, associate dean, dean, vice president and now president. Oh well, that's quite a journey.
Speaker 2:Uh, so you mentioned that you did your phd, or did your mba and then phd. What did you do? What was the special?
Speaker 3:yeah, my specialization has always been that intersection between technology and business. Okay, and how do we use technology for better business, for better decision making? My dissertation one was how do we use technology for better group decision making? Because, as I'm sure you know, kashik um, group think is a reality, and and groups um. There's a saying that says nothing gets accomplished by any group unless um it's. It consists of three people Okay, one is absence and the other one is not there. So that's how things get done. So I designed and built a system that actually really helped people make better decisions as a team Okay, decision as a team. And then, of course, my research evolved to study newer technology, like electronic commerce, then addictions to texting and to using these wonderful devices we all have, and now, of course, artificial intelligence is something that I'm very passionate about and studying a lot, right.
Speaker 2:So, just so people understand what a president does, can you describe what your day-to-day would be like?
Speaker 3:So I wake up around noon, have my breakfast then play some video games, and then it's time to eat, but in reality it's 24-7, 365.
Speaker 3:The University of North Florida is the backbone of Northeast Florida. We have 17,000 students, we have around more than 3,000, 4,000 employees, we have our own police, we have our own city, if you want. So things happen and you really have to be alert and you have to be available. Even you know Florida is known for hurricanes, so even during hurricanes they give me a satellite phone so I'm always reachable. So the best analogy, kaushik, is.
Speaker 3:Think of a university president as a CEO of a company that really hopefully puts a great leadership team with to help them do their job, puts a great leadership team with to help them do their job, but also is responsible for rallying the group behind a very compelling, attractive vision for the university, some strategic goals and my role. I see it as bringing resources from the state and from philanthropists and from entrepreneurial activities. Hire good people, remove obstacles and get out of their ways. That's very well put. I always tell my team, my cabinet I'm hiring you to tell me what to do. If you find me telling you what to do, there is a problem.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, that's a very fair point.
Speaker 3:So most of the decisions we make as a cabinet, as a team, in our transparency and communication is the key.
Speaker 2:Okay, wow. So now, considering your background, I think University of North Florida is very blessed to have a person with your background. I was just talking earlier to Dr Alia about how, within academics, it seems very difficult to talk about change, and everybody knows that academic change happens at a glacial base oh, absolutely. However, it seems like we are in the middle of an information revolution with the app? How do you see that impacting education in general and what steps is UNF actually taking to position itself and prepare itself for this uncertainty?
Speaker 3:that we're going to face in the next couple of years? That's a great question, kashik. You know it's important to develop a vision and a plan, but we all know that culture will have any strategic plan, any vision, any mission for breakfast, anytime. So that's why we work a lot on changing the culture from a culture of complacency to a culture of innovation, of empowerment, of transparency, of innovation, of empowering, of transparency, of recognitions of excellence. So we work a lot on that culture and you're absolutely right.
Speaker 3:Now, like healthcare, like other industry, higher education is an industry that is in absolute change, at the speed that we don't even comprehend, and artificial intelligence is a great example. It's changing everything we do. It's changing how we teach, how we hire, how do we operate, how do we manage, how we assess learning, manage how we assess learning. So I think, to answer your question, koshy, my view is that we're going to see winners and losers in higher educations. The winners, who really embrace this change and this technology and be more proactive and be the learning organization, if you want, and the losers were business ease, as usual. And even you've seen, you know, with the simple generative AI systems, there are universities who are forbidding students from using it. Yes, I know, yes, which is really interesting, right, and guess what? It doesn't matter what the university does, students do use it.
Speaker 3:So what are we doing? And I think I presented our approach to several thousand academic leaders in San Diego in a conference a couple of months ago and it was well received. So, first of all, we made a promise to our stakeholders, internally and externally, that we will be a leader in ai right, even though we're making the airplane as we're flying it, but we will be a leader. So what does that mean? Means you have to be intentional. So I constituted, I formed um, an AI council that has really good representations of faculty and staff and students, co-chaired by our CIO and our Dean of Engineering, and I gave them very simple but yet complicated and complex tasks to develop a plan for UNF to be a leader worldwide in use of AI for learning, use of AI to strengthen our research use of AI. To also be the best-run university in terms of operational excellence using AI, and also to be the best in serving our community and their AI needs.
Speaker 3:So this is very ambitious. And let me tell you, when you empower people and you really let them be innovative, creative, they came up with just the most compelling strategic plan. Actually, it's available. You can just Google UNF AI strategic plan. You will see very specific vision, mission, strategic goals, but also metrics for progress and also accountability who's responsible for what? So we're making a lot of progress. We are training our faculty, we are developing policies to also put a framework for an ethical use of AI by our students, by our faculty and staff, and we're really changing the culture. We're becoming a leader in AI because of that intentionality.
Speaker 2:But I'm sure, as big a university as you are, there are some roadblocks, not just in terms of actual logistics but I assume in the theorem. Our people think this is a bad idea, Absolutely. We face that as well in our school, where a lot of people say that AI should not be. It reduces the critical thinking of students and in our school a lot of professors say that doctors need to think critically and AI diminishes credibility. Considering your educational background and you studied this in your research technology do you think that that's really true?
Speaker 3:I don't think it's true. Okay, actually, that's, I think, one of the biggest misconceptions about AI. Okay, you know, ai is a tool. It really depends how you use it. Right, you know, you take simple things like this camera, like our phones. Some people use it to take calls and response, maybe text. Other will use it in much more innovative, creative ways. Some will use it for scams. That is what AI is a tool.
Speaker 3:What happens is that I think the impact is long lasting, is very significant and evolving. So this is our approach to this First, we educate. So we are having a lot of training and actually the team shared with me just our use of AI tools. Since we started our effort, it was the curve is like this it goes to really very few people and then we started our strategic plan and our training and it was off the roof. So, going back to the critical thinking, which is really important, because we don't want to train students who are not able to think or learn how to learn and adapt like we, justifiably so. So what we are doing is we're training our faculty on usage of how can you use generative AI while not just preserving critical thinking, actually enhancing critical thinking, just to give you a very simple example, we actually encourage our faculty to ask students to use AI, but use it as input, not output. So actually the exercise that hey go and write a paper is absolutely absolute. I mean, how long does it take ChatGPT to write a?
Speaker 1:paper.
Speaker 3:They will make it your own. But one way we train our faculty is that actually, they ask students to use ChatGPT for any topic, whether it's appropriate for the class, but then they take that output that was given by generative AI to criticize it critically, think it and come up with their own that's what it really is it and come up with their own right. That's what really is okay. Now one might argue also um writing is is becoming a problem because you know, and you can literally now um go through a doctoral program without writing two sentences. You literally can't. Yes, so we have to really rethink that. To um in class writing exercises, um to um critical writing, as we um, as we described below before.
Speaker 3:But I think there are many ways we train our faculty for um, using generative ai to enhance critical thinking and, at the end of the day, this is what we tell our faculty. Now sometimes we talk about the train is leaving or the bus is leaving. I think this is a jet leaving and the jet will not wait for the nairs and people who are opposing and resisting to change. So you know, if you want to join the right, we're going to make a great, great seat for you first class seat, but we'll not stop the jet from taking off because you don't want to join.
Speaker 2:That's a very good analogy. What about the naysayers? I'm sure you had professors come and tell you this is a bad idea, we shouldn't adopt this, etc. How do you deal with those stakeholders who are naysayers?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think the first thing you do is really educate them, and that doesn't work for 100%, but really by itself it really helps convert some of the Nairs. We also use incentives. You know we're dealing with the PhDs. They do the math, so we actually assign resources for grants for people that come up to do research on how they can use it for their courses, for enhancing critical thinking or for enhancing their research. That really helped a lot. So incentives, as I said, education incentive and then recognition Recognitions. I go out of my way as president to write handwritten notes to send personalized messages to the colleagues who actually are helping us progress in our AI strategic plan. I think these three have worked. But you know what? There will always beers right and you have to have the wisdom at one point in time the jet is leaving right, right, that is leaving.
Speaker 2:I actually read once that, uh, apparently, when the printing press became widespread and books became relatively common in every household, it was said that parents used to discourage children from going out from reading books because apparently it was a work of the dead. So I mean, every time I talk to some folks who are, you know, bad-mouthing AI, I keep thinking about that you know another, even more obvious calculate right.
Speaker 3:It's like when a calculator came, my God it was the resistance.
Speaker 3:This will kill our ability to do math. You know Calculators are there, we're still curing diseases, we're still building great buildings and dams and bridges and roads, and you know we adopt and I think resistance technology is buildings and dams and bridges and roads, and you know we adopt, and I think resistance technology is and this is what I always say, and I'm sure this is true for medical students who are worried about AI, or even medical doctors is you will not be replaced by an AI system. Okay, but you will be replaced by somebody who knows how to use an AI system effectively, efficiently and ethically. That's really the truth. Then give you an example If I am asking my team to standardize a certain operation transaction, even in our day-to-day operations, let's say I give it to person A and give it to person B, person A will go and take a few weeks to come up with whatever is the template that we need to use.
Speaker 3:Person B will go use AI as input, not output, make it ours, criticize it and make it really the UNF way, and comes back in a day, right, when it's time for me to promote, to acknowledge which one you think Right.
Speaker 3:Even though person A, who took four or five weeks, might be very thoughtful, but we cannot afford not to use these tools.
Speaker 2:When it comes to AI, have you reached roadblocks. When it comes to resources, it's like money. This is costing too much. What do you do in that situation?
Speaker 3:Yes, this is always and this is really the problem oh, we don't have money. And the other problem is I have in my job is people say, okay, give us money, we'll figure out what to do. It doesn't work that way. It's like trust us. So, kaushik, I have a principle I really do Is that resources follow vision. This is really important and I really hope your wonderful students will remember that people Finding the resources is not that difficult. I'll give you just a very specific example. Then we go back to AI.
Speaker 3:When I landed at UNF, we were the most underfunded university in the state of Florida, and that's very simple math, right? You take the state appropriation, you divide it by how many FTE students, how many students, and you find that ratio that gives you your funding per student. So we developed a very compelling vision that is based on strategic growth in certain areas that emphasize student success, community engagement, research that actually is relevant and impactful and timely, and also our faculty and staff success. So we really did this. We have measures. In three years, we broke all the records in terms of injecting new resources from the state. Because they like that vision. They really saw a vision. People want to invest. So when it comes to AI, the same thing. This is why we spend a lot of time developing that vision to be the best in AI, because I knew if we have that vision, bringing resources from the state or from other things becomes easier even for me to justify and to bring it. So, yes, it is costly, but not as costly as one might think.
Speaker 2:I think the biggest cost for AI is resistance to change here's a question like, as you said, obviously, resources call the bridge. Again, considering UNF, which is a state school, which is a not for profit, yes, what are the stakeholders who are donating or giving money for the restore, for add resources to you? What are they really getting out?
Speaker 3:they're getting the most precious and important thing any region, any community needs. Let me um tell you what I mean by that. When a business in your case, hospital, our organization they want to expand in the region or they're exploring coming to a region, what is their number one question? It's not. Are we going to have tax rebates? That is, every region will give you that talent. Are we going to have the talent and numbers and quality that we need? If they don't, they don't expand and they don't move here.
Speaker 3:So what we are providing our communities, our state, our country, is the most precious resources, which is qualified talent that can critically train, that really can use the latest tools ethically and responsibly. That's what is the best return on investment. You know, and if you look at every single major vibrant city in the US, you will always find a vibrant university in East Speck. What you are doing here at St James School of Medicine for St Vincent is a great example. You really are creating a lot of economic impact that the country has not seen before. That's what is the recurring investment. So you're not only giving great doctors, qualified doctors for different hospitals, but also you're employing people here. We're here as your guests. We are staying in a hotel. We're consuming as your guest. We are staying in a hotel. We're consuming. That's the economic impact that we give back to the philanthropists, to the state, to the community that we are in.
Speaker 2:I mean as St James. We're actually planning to start undergraduate programs. We already have one, polski for Intention. That's great, and we need a place in.
Speaker 3:Virginia. That's a great return on investment and I'm sure the government here is so appreciative of that effort. Oh yes, they've been extremely supportive. Absolutely, because that's the return on investment.
Speaker 2:That's the effect on technology. Yes, on human production, yes. Now I really need to ask this question. When it comes to your own kids, yes, have you limited and and I know you have, uh, two very successful children um, but as they have been growing up, have you limited that access to technology at all for them, based on your expertise, or is it just a dad? No, you need to sit down and talk to me.
Speaker 3:No, I think we really did something that our kids hated, okay, and now they absolutely thank us for it. They were not allowed to have any smartphones before high school. Okay, I think that was really important. They hated it. I think that was really important. They hated it. All their friends, habit classmates they used, as you said, they're very smart and eloquent. They used a very sound line of reasoning to convince us that we are the worst parents in the world because we're not giving them these smartphones. But they have just what we call now damn phones. They can text and they can call, and so I think that really helped. Kaushik, because you're so vulnerable when you're elementary and when you're in the middle school you're still shaping, and then we give them. We bought them phones, um, but they can lose. Now they are grown, but then they, they, they, um were warned that they could lose their um phone privileges under certain conditions. Actually, I remember we even wrote contracts with them. These are the rules we violate. Violate this. You do this. We did it for phones, we did it for cars. But I think, as they grow older, more communications and educations about the negative impact of overusing screen time is the best way, and actually I did a lot of research on texting while driving Because you probably all seen, it is one of the worst evils of these technologies and so many lives were lost.
Speaker 3:Actually, I lost a friend because he was texting and driving. So I did a lot of experiments and a lot of research on why people do this. So I got into addiction behavior and how do you fight addictions and it's really interesting a lot of governments and different authorities. The way they deal with addictions. For example, texting while driving is punishment we catch you, hefty fine, we will catch you, we'll revoke your driver's license, you lose points, and what I found in research, actually that is the worst possible way to deal with it. So what really does is because you're not getting at the root of addiction is people. What do they do now? They try to hide while texting when they see police and they will use it in an awkward position, causing even more, more accidents and more fatalities.
Speaker 3:And what I, what I found is that awareness and education um is is really the way to go, and actually I did something that a lot of people did not like but that turned out to be effective. In my previous job as dean, I brought a car that is completely destroyed from someone who was driving and taxing. Put it right in front of the building, right? This is what driving and taxing, and it really raised a lot of eyebrows. It's shocking, right, right, but made people think twice, better than saying, hey, if I catch you. So I think there are many ways and I still believe that awareness, education and persistence are now really, and something that is still aspirational for me is lead by example for kids, which is really aspirational given my job, but I try as much as we can but I have to say that after meeting Sarah, she's an incredibly impressive young woman, but one of the things that really stood out was that all my interactions with her I didn't see a phone that she brought.
Speaker 2:I mean, I'm sure she must have brought a phone, but at least, which is something that I don't necessarily see with deaf people anymore, is that they're constantly on the phone or the phone is on their first man, very visible, it's a very visible part of their demeanor of their themselves, whereas with sarah that definitely wasn't the case thank you, she still uses it, I have to admit, but, uh, but, but I think, um, um, that's where I think awareness and and education is is really important.
Speaker 3:And um, you know, um, I'm sure you've seen this research now show that up to 90% of college-age students meet at least one criterion for mental health challenge. Okay, and research show that actually the phone is one of the main factor contributing to that. Actually, the phone is one of the main factors contributing to that Cyber bullying and isolation and lack of human skills. You know, it is true that we're still dealing. I'm sure now some of those people we call them the pandemic generations are also still suffering from that social isolation. But you know, technology is a double-edged sword, right, that's what I said. It's a tool. It depends how you use it.
Speaker 2:Like everything else, so, uh, the last topic I really want to touch upon and get pick your brain on this is that, uh, we talked about technology, but along with technology comes social media, and along with social media, unfortunately, there are a lot of trends that, in my opinion, are not getting grounded in reality. One of them is and these are my words is the demise of expertise. As time has gone on, I've noticed especially this is particularly true for younger people, and I would say all through their 20s that's what I would categorize it Even maybe already 30s people seem like. Since I have AI, since I have social media, since I have TikTok, if I have an ailment, I will Google it, I will search it. I don't need to go to a doctor, I don't need to go to a lawyer, I don't need to go to an accountant, I can do all of these things and there has been a decline in expertise or the value of having expertise.
Speaker 2:Now, everybody is an expert. A classic example is you know, I hate to bring up this name, but Joe Rogan, for example. He's a podcaster and he actually clearly says that I am not an expert on some of the topics that I talk about, but his viewers listen to this and say that he said this, he did say this, et cetera, et cetera. What are your views on, generally speaking, the demise of expertly? Do you think that this is a real thing? This is my observation there's not no I.
Speaker 3:I think it's a phenomenon, it's there. There's no denying. It would be absolutely naive. Um, but I want to go back to our earlier decision or discussion about critical thinking. That's really the key. That is really the key. If we can teach and train students it doesn't matter which field on how to think rather than what to think, if we can really teach them how to learn, not how to memorize, that's where it's really important. These are tools and you know what? In many instances they were proven wrong and also these tools inherit the biases of people who program them. So that's why the critical thinking is really important, is really important. And actually I really believe that working with the new generation, trying to explain to them, trying to understand you know, we're even thinking about bachelor degree in these influencers, social media influencers If it is done and done correctly, it is a profession. It really is a profession and it can be.
Speaker 3:And I really believe we have to fundamentally rethink the way we teach and the way we assess learning, and this is not just higher education. It has to start from early learning. When I say early learning is from birth to five, and then from K to 12, and then higher education. When you think about it, it's true for any university. It's really interesting. You go to a classroom yeah, what do you usually see? Chairs, seats, big screen. If I ask you to go and see a classroom from the 18th century, it looks exactly the same. Maybe they did not have projectors but they have blackboard and chalk, but it's always the same. Maybe they did not have projectors but they have that board and chat, but it's always the same principle. I really think it's time now and if we don't do it, it might be too late to fundamentally rethink education Now. The idea of giving a paper to write, a report to write to students and expect them to critically think it's over. We will be training a generation of people who cannot think, who literally are so dependent on Google and AI that they believe what they see without critically criticizing and thinking it through. So it's not easy what I am talking about, but we have to start. We really have to start what I am talking about, but we have to start. We really have to start. At UNF, we are now investigating and we're working with the federal government to become a true hub of excellence on early learning.
Speaker 3:Okay, because we believe that early learning is so important. When you say early learning it's pre-Kindergarten, right, yeah, important. When you say early learning is pre-kindergarten, right there, you know? Yeah. So research show that if you teach, start educating them at their level for pre-earning um, their chances to go to high school increase significantly, to go to college significantly, actually. Even um. The average salary when they graduate increases significantly. And if you don't start early, you will lose a big chunk and portion of students who will reach third grade without being able to read at the grade level. And let me tell you a very shocking fact is that many states in the us they look at third grade reading scores to plan how much space in jails they need. Oh, wow, yes, this is how. That's why I said we really need to start rethinking everything earlier on. And those course from K to 12 and higher education.
Speaker 2:So, in the interim, while we are as all educational institutions, small and large, are going through this flux, yes, from a business standpoint, and I know that this is an issue of a lot of young people just don't move to college because they really think the college has no bed. Um, this was about a year, year, year and a half ago. Uh, I remember I was giving a lecture at my graduate school in in chicago and I was talking to one of the undergrad students and I was a guest of the main lecturer and we were talking and she had said that you know, I'm going to be very honest. I think I'm just here because I need the attendance and I need the grade. I think I know a lot more than this course has to offer.
Speaker 2:And you know, and obviously there were a series of questions that I asked the student and obviously she didn't know about it more, right? Yes, and it was really about. It was a class on social media. I asked a very simple question what is the algorithm for going viral? And if you cannot tell me that you don't know what you're doing, except that, and obviously she didn't have an answer, but she said oh, I know TikTok, I know this. I know that whatever, but this is the general trend of the youngsters now and I'm not particularly youngsters. I definitely think it is smart, but this is a pervasive view. It is that it is smart, but this is a pervasive view. Yeah, how does a university or any educational institute feel Truly?
Speaker 3:comment. That's a great, great question and it's really one million questions, and that again will separate the winners from the losers, because it's a fact. The value of college is being rethought, it's being questioned and we see that, you know, the Mark Zuckerberg syndrome is still there. He didn't finish this and he's a billionaire, but it is there and I think students have to dream. Now this is where I really believe rethinking the way, which is really important. That student somehow was not completely wrong because they probably did not know the algorithm. But guess what? On a push of a button, someone either chat GBD or Google will give them the algorithm. But guess what? On a push of a button, someone either chat GPT or Google will give them the answer. So for us as educators to sit there and waste their time for two hours I call it death by PowerPoint. Killing them by PowerPoint it's not the way to go. It really is not. There's many ways where they can do that outside the classroom and then the critical thinking, the discussion, the guest lecture becomes in the classroom. That's really important. Another thing for higher education again, I always I'm a data person. I always go to the research. What does the research say? I always go to the research. What does the research say? For many, many years now, research has shown that college degree will give you a certain amount of dollars, depending on the studies, compared to somebody who did not go through. Now research is changing. They said that college degree is necessary but no longer sufficient. It's like okay. So what do we do? We have to augment a college degree. We have to supplement it with micro-credentials with now, the new generation call it batches certificates. With now, the new generation call it batches certificates that actually tackle certain specific skills that employers are looking for, a certain, you know, the medical field, certain area that are very specific, that are not covered by the typical curriculum. So that combination is the winning combination. Also, another way of doing this is and she knows interesting, because I was meeting with my cabinet and I gave them instructions to really work on this. And coming back to us Again, the bachelor degree with very strict curriculum.
Speaker 3:I think it's think of the past. Now we have to think stacked credentials. What are stacked credentials? We take a master's degree, for example. We will divide it in different small certificates. Gosh, you have some doubts? That's fine, come to us, take a few courses. You still have a degree because it's a certificate. If you want to stop there, fine, you want another one. You made progress With the third one. You'll get the master's. That's what is the stack. Micro credential that's the future.
Speaker 2:That's awesome. It's almost like you know put it in terms of what our viewers will understand a Minecraft of degrees of degrees.
Speaker 3:That's the future, that's really the future and that's what I think we're heading. But the typical traditional college degree, they will come very rigid. I think experiential learning is really important. I know you're working really hard with that, working with hospitals. We made a commitment at UNF that starting next fall, every student will have at least one internship, if not more, more, during their study. Will commit it to that they cannot. They cannot graduate if they don't have that. That's all are similar. Yes, uh, 93 of students with that experiential learning will have a job at graduation shortly after with competitive salary. That's the number one factor contributing to their success.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you so much for your time. Dr Moise Lemire, thank you. We appreciate all the insights. I mean we've gotten so much out of this conversation, especially as it pertains to St James and its operations in St Vincent.
Speaker 3:Thank you, thank you, koshk, and let me conclude by thanking you and your faculty staff and students for the hospitality. Dr Alia, my wife, she's a smart one in the family. We've been really impressed with the infrastructure, with the faculty, with the students, with the leadership on the mindset of openness, the mindset of always striving for excellence and looking for ways to improve, and we are just very impressed with what we've seen and I can tell you the future of St James is even better than this great present.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much, dr Limayam, for giving us these wonderful insights. It's safe to say that higher education typically moves at a glacial pace, whereas you, with your leadership at the helm of UNF, is really changing the norm for that, and you have been a true inspiration to us. I hope our viewers have been as inspired as I have, and if you really enjoyed the contents of this podcast, please do not forget to like, follow and subscribe to our podcast, download it from any of your favorite podcast platforms, such as Spotify or Google, and remember there is no shortcut to becoming an MD.
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