Lost And Sound

Laurent Garnier

• Paul Hanford • Episode 150

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It’s the 150th episode of Lost and Sound and I’m joined by the legendary DJ and producer Laurent Garnier, who this week releases his epic Fabric Presents Mix, celebrating 25 years of the London superclub.

Garnier famously checks out 400+ tracks a day, and we discuss how he sustains his passion for music amidst an avalanche of daily releases. He underscores the relentless pursuit of musical treasures, maintaining that even in a saturated market, gems persist. Garnier also reflects on the evolution of DJ culture and music trends, highlighting the significance of resisting nostalgia and embracing fresh tracks while acknowledging the challenges posed by technological advances in music distribution.

Our conversation also touches on the nuances of today's techno scene, where commercial and underground elements often blur, not always in the best way. Garnier's approach shifts towards intimate venues that prioritize artistic expression over mainstream success. Lastly, we celebrate Fabric's 25th anniversary with Garnier's contribution: a mix for each of Fabric's rooms and a special "fourth room" mix for home listeners. 

Garnier is also a keen cook, and we draw on the parralels between clubs and restaurants, and how good resident DJs fulfull the same need for the culture as good chefs do. I loved hearing his insights into maintaining a successful DJ career, understanding crowd dynamics, and the intricacies of performing for different audiences.

If you like what I’m doing with Lost and Sound, please like, rate, review or subscribe to the show on your podcast app of choice – it really does help.

fabric presents Laurent Garnier: celebrating 25 years of fabric. Initial deluxe vinyl and CD release: 29th November. Pre-order here. 

Follow me on Instagram at Paulhanford

Lost and Sound is sponsored by Audio-Technica

My BBC World Service radio documentary “The man who smuggled punk rock across the Berlin Wall” is available now on BBC Sounds. Click here to listen.

My  book, Coming To Berlin: Global Journeys Into An Electronic Music And Club Culturet Capital is out now on Velocity Press. Click here to find out more. 

Lost and Sound title music by Thomas Giddins


Paul :

Okay, so you're about to hear the 150th episode of Lost in Sound. It's been over six years since this show started and today I'm joined by electronic music royalty, laurent Garnier. But first, lost in Sound is sponsored by Audio-Technica, a global but family-run company that make headphones, turntables, cartridges, microphones, studio quality yet affordable products, because they believe that high-quality audio should be accessible to all. So, wherever you are in the world, head on over to Audio-Technicacom to check out all of their range of stuff. Okay, I'm excited for this. Here we go. Thank you, hello and welcome to episode 150 of Lost in Sound. How are you doing?

Paul :

I'm Paul Hanford, I'm your host, I I'm an author, a broadcaster and a lecturer, and lost and sound is the weekly podcast where I chat with an artist who works outside the box, from global icons to trailblazing outsiders and emerging innovators. We talk music, creativity and perhaps that most daunting part of being an artist the praxis of life. Previous guests on the show have included Peaches, suzanne Chiani, jim O'Rourke, cozy, fanny Tootie, jean-michel Jarre, mickey Blanco and Thurston Moore. And today you're about to hear a conversation I had with DJ and producer Laurent Garnier. You can listen to my BBC radio documentary the man who Smuggled Punk Rock Across the Berlin Wall by heading on over to the BBC Sounds app or on the BBC World Service home page. And my book Coming to Berlin is still available in all good bookshops or via the publisher's website, velocity Press. And if you're a listener in Berlin and you fancy getting hold of a copy of the book, maybe it's a Christmas present for someone. I have actually signed 10 copies that are now on sale in Rough Trade Berlin, rough Trade in Neukölln. What a lovely little Christmas present if you fancy buying a copy of the book with the addition of having my signature in.

Paul :

Okay, so this episode has a double anniversary theme to it. In a minute you're going to hear a conversation with Laurent Garnier, who is initially here to talk about his rather epic fabric mix, or rather mixes released to celebrate the club's 25th anniversary. But first, as you'll probably picked up on by now, it's the 150th episode of Lost in Sound. It's been over six years since I packed my life into a couple of bags, jumped on the Ryanair, moved to Berlin and started doing this, and I'd just like to give a heartfelt thanks to you for listening, if you're a regular friend or new to the show. Thank you for just letting these conversations I do be part of your personal airspace. I realize that for us all, time is really really hectic and busy. I personally get time to listen to podcasts only when I'm doing cooking, really. So if you're listening, mega, mega thank you, I really really appreciate it. And a massive thanks out to to all the guests that have appeared over the last six years six and a bit years. It's all about sharing conversations, and I learn something from every conversation I have, including today, lauren Garnier.

Paul :

How do you introduce Lauren Garnier? You know him as one of the most influential and respected DJs and producers in dance culture. His dance music DNA goes way, way back. In his book Electroshock. He writes about that by the age of 10, he had made his bedroom look like a nightclub, complete with strobe lights, a disco ball, a DJ booth and a dance floor, dreaming of only one thing making people dance. And right back in the late 80s he was one of the first DJs in Europe to pick up on the house and techno music. Coming out of the States, he did his first ever DJ set at the Hacienda. He spent time with Frankie Knuckles in New York before moving back to Paris. He then went on to run the legendary Wake Up Parties at the Rex Club, moving into production alongside DJing in the 90s onwards. I think of tracks like the Gurgling Acid that goes on in Crispy bacon or on the manner of the red face, the way he puts a freewheeling jazz saxophone right in the middle of a club track and lets the saxophone just do what it seems to want to do. He's an author, a chef, a film score composer, radio station owner. He checks out at least 400 tracks a day. He's one of the world's most respected dance music practitioners.

Paul :

And we had this conversation because Fabric, the London club, is celebrating their 25th anniversary and they approached Laurent to do the accompanying Fabric Presents mix. Now those Fabric Presents mixes, I think, are iconic, too long surviving the death of the CD, even though I still kind of associate them with CDs. I think about hammering the John Peel fabric mix. It would get passed around between friends. It would end up in like various different cars, various different bags, various different bedrooms, and I just, I just loved it. And Lauren, although he's played fabric four times over the years, has never done a Fabric in the mix. And so they asked him, rather than just do one mix, the whole project snowballed and you're going to hear all about that during the chat.

Paul :

Now, we only had 30 minutes to talk, but Lauren very graciously let the conversation carry on a good little bit longer and prior to talking, because of this length which was down to like press junket stuff he was doing a bunch of interviews that day I was initially worried that maybe we wouldn't have time to go deep or that the conversation would end up being too much of a plug for the fabric mix good though it is, but it's a sweet chat. It felt really nice to me. We got into subjects like curation, particularly in a time where more and more tracks are released every day on streaming, like what that implies for the DJ and for listeners and for dancers, his thoughts on quality music versus cheese and the importance of resident DJs. So you're going to hear that in a second and, as this is the 150th episode, you might have heard me say that already by now. If you like the show and you haven't already, please do give it a subscribe and, if you fancy, give the show a rating and a review on the platform of your choice.

Paul :

Right, ok? So this is what happened when I met Laurent Garnier Brilliant, thank you so much for joining me today. My pleasure. And how are you doing today? I can see a lot of vinyl and maybe even some cassettes behind you.

Laurent:

Oh yes, there is some cassettes here. And some seven inch right down there.

Paul :

Amazing, amazing. Do you have an idea of how many records there are in total where you are?

Laurent:

About 60,000, 70,000, something like that Amazing. Do you have an idea of how many records there are in total, where you are? About 60,000,?

Paul :

70,000, something like that. Right, yeah, it's big.

Laurent:

It's big. I mean, I had to. When I moved house four years ago during COVID, we had to find a house where there was one room that could fit my record collection. I mean, you never think of things like that until the day you're moving house and you're counting the amount of boxes of records you have. And, of course, my wife had a very good solution Sell the motherfuckers. No, no, we need to find the right space, and we did. We did.

Paul :

Oh, and do you did? Do you have a method for finding things?

Laurent:

Yes, everything is by style of music and when it comes to what I have most, which is house and techno, it's by country and alphabetical order of labels.

Paul :

Right, okay that's really interesting.

Laurent:

And all the other styles of music is by alphabetical order of artists. So jazz, rock, classical music and film soundtracks and stuff. All that is in funk, soul, hip hop, whatever. All that is alphabetical order.

Paul :

But techno, which is a lot of it, it's by country and labels, because I remember labels better sometimes than than artists yeah, and I imagine is there a tactileness to that for you, like, do you sort of think, um, I know what the record I want is because you can kind of picture times when you've played it yeah, I think it's like a memo technical way of remembering things.

Laurent:

I would remember more when I was playing this on vinyl, the labels than the names. So I mean, we have long discussions with my DJ friends here in France where the way they do this records collection is completely different to a point where when I go to their house I'm like why are all the carl craig records together? It's like because me carl craig sticks first and I'm like, okay, but for me it's like fragile is one thing and what he did on ministry of sound is different and what he did on this label is different. So so, yeah, it's, it's all a matter of you how you remember music, which is really difficult now with the usb key, because yeah, it's not the same way of putting things in order very complicated because we all have our own ways of mapping anything in life, don't we for sure?

Laurent:

I mean, you have a great film in england, aidelity, where this guy keeps on rearranging his record collection.

Paul :

It's like no, by years. So it's like everything by years, and then no, by record by guitarist.

Laurent:

He's going absolutely mental, Really funny.

Paul :

I remember watching that, definitely with John Cusack. Yeah, but.

Laurent:

I mean the actual American. The actual film was a bit different than the book because the book was very much putting references within UK music where the film is much more American.

Paul :

As much as I thought the film was great, I kind of related less with the references in the film than in the book, which I thought was so cool, yeah, and I think the book spoke to, because I remember reading that and it definitely made the connection between romance and the role of collecting and music in people's lives. Yeah, yeah, and like the memory of it.

Laurent:

But in the film I like the way he explained how he was making tapes to his girlfriends or whatever potential friends he had, and I can so relate to that. You don't put the hit first and you know second tracks different, and then third one and then bang the fourth one.

Paul :

He's like this oh, I can so relate to this, love it and I think, as as a dj I mean djs because I remember everyone used to make tape mixes and and but now I feel like especially the young ones yeah, yeah, but like now I feel like it's it is really down to the djs to to humanly steer that curation, you know. So your role as a curator has changed through the I think now they would do on soundcloud.

Laurent:

They would do mixes and then they would post them on soundcloud so they would make them available by a big community of people. What I liked about tapes is, unless you had a studio at home, you were only making one or two copies of your tapes and they were very valuable. You know the the actual thing you were doing for whoever you were doing them for, it had a very strong meaning. It was not something you were sharing with everybody perhaps people were listening to them as a group but to hold and to have a type from him or her or whoever, meant something. It had a much stronger meaning.

Laurent:

I mean, now we all used to share a lot of things everywhere and sometimes I get a lot of people saying to me, you know, on Instagram or wherever, saying, oh, can you put this set online? I'm like, no, I don't want to, because the set was magical, the night was magical, and, first of all, listening to it at home will not have the same meaning. And, second of all, I like to keep things a bit special and that night was so special that I'd rather keep having people remembering it as like something super special, and perhaps in 10 years time. Yes, I will put it online, but not straight away. I like to still keep things a bit special, but it's, I guess it's not the way the new generation is doing stuff. But, yeah, I, I think projects, you know, it's nice to keep things a bit special for people do you feel?

Paul :

I mean because that there's a there's a myth that you always listen to 400 records at least every day.

Laurent:

More than that, actually every day right and I think I listen to more than that. To be honest, I think I listen to more than 400.

Paul :

And how do you keep that up? How to stop?

Laurent:

You know very well not listening from the records from A to Z, when we were buying records with vinyl. You go within four times dropping the needle on the vinyl, you would know if you, if you, want to buy the record or not. I guess I listen to music the same way. I will scroll. But as I do a lot of different things, I dj I've got my own uh internet radio station called pbb, which I've been running for like over 25 years. I never, I never make any, any adverts or anything for it, but it's there, it exists okay, and it's fed with all these records, all my record collection, plus all the new stuff I discover and I like. And because I listen to so much stuff every day, I keep forgetting sometimes. So I have a bag in my computer which is for PBB and then I put music in there and then I I guess I'm the first uh bigger fan of PBB, so I listened to it whenever I'm on my, I'm in my car driving, and then I go, oh, what the fuck is this track?

Laurent:

So I actually shazam myself because I have forgotten. So there's the PBB bag and then there's there's the deep search, which is the radio show I do, which is again very different music. And then there's my DJ job, and then I actually have another bag where I put music aside for my friends, for my close friends I don't do tapes anymore, but I do them USB key and my very close friends. Every two months I give them a key with like 100 tracks. I'm a key with like a hundred tracks and it's all like the music I've been getting over the last two months from, you know, folk songs to classical, to a good reggae track, everything but dance floor techno music.

Laurent:

So, I do this I mean I'm curious and I want to listen to as much music as I can, because I put this music into so many different bags. I need to feed myself with a lot of music. And the fact is now I think we're up to 150,000, 160,000 tracks a day that are released every single day on the platforms. So listening to five, six hundred or even a thousand tracks a day is nothing. It's like a drop on the seaside. So I guess the more I listen to music, the more I know that I know nothing about music.

Laurent:

I get older and when I was young I was thinking I know everything about techno. But today, 35 years after, I know fuck, all about techno, because there's so much more than what I have time to be able to listen to. So I guess I'm trying, you know, to keep a long story short. I'm trying to keep up as much as I can to not be on top, but to keep my head out of the water and kind of have a small idea of what's going on. I guess that's why I do it, of what's going on. I guess that's why I do it and again, also to feed all this, you know, this PBB, this deep search and whatever different things I do and to keep them interesting.

Paul :

It's my fuel. It's my fuel, it's fuel. And why is it your fuel? I mean because, after 35 years and you've been there since the start of when House came to Europe you know what keeps you enthusiastic for it to be your fuel, because there's still good music everywhere.

Laurent:

There's amazing. There's amazing hip hop albums, amazing jazz albums. Of course now there's much more. So it's drowned in a mass. Of course now there's much more. So it's drowned in a mass, of course.

Laurent:

But I guess, if you look at 20 years ago, what was the percentage of good music within the tracks you were searching? The percentage has always been between five and ten percent. I'm not talking about the right, the beginning of this, of house and techno, where 50% was good, because of course it was the beginning, it was early, the story hasn't been written yet, so our ears were not um ruled to to the sound and we were discovering it. So it's different. But after 10 years of the beginning of house and techno, I guess the percentage was 10% of good stuff.

Laurent:

Today, uh, funny enough, I would say there's more shit, but there's there's more good music as well. And if I listen to 500 records I'm I might not download 50, but I think I will download and get a good 25, 30. So I'm not far from the 10%. Quite frankly, again, I'm targeting what I'm listening to, but still, by listening to all this, I listen to a lot of stuff and, of course, a lot of stuff I don't like, and of course, a lot of stuff I don't like, but there is still if you search, because it's much more time consuming now because there's so much more, but if you search, there is still great music. But again, as there's been so much more music now than before, it can be heavy and become something not as much fun as what it was, because when before, within three hours, you had a pretty good idea of all the music within a record shop or within a website, nowadays you need six or seven hours.

Paul :

Yeah, I mean as an original, one of the real original DJs. There's a tendency, I think, with people, the older they get, to say things on what they used to be. But with you I always get a sense of yeah, you always feel very.

Laurent:

I refuse that totally and I always said, the day I'm starting to say things like that, it will be time for me to hang my coat up, say stop, because I've passed the sell-by date For me. I've always fed my DJ mixes with new music. I've never been a DJ that likes playing too much old classics, unless I go and do a disco set somewhere. Okay, you know, if I do a disco set or, or a soul set or a funk set somewhere, of course I will play a lot of old stuff. But if I go and do a normal Lauren Garnier sets, uh, and this is the way I approach the fabric mixes, um, it needs to be fresh, it needs to be new music, because I don't want to be some kind of old, dusty jukebox.

Laurent:

And I found sometimes a bit sad Some of the DJs who play more old school records than new records within any styles of music, because if you look at deep house music, there's amazing soulful deep house tracks at the moment. Okay, they might not come from new york anymore, not as much from new york but they'll come out of south africa.

Laurent:

Um, same with techno. It might not come from detroit, but it will come from from, from either germany, or will come from countries you never. You never bought music from before. There might be more Japanese releases or stuff like that. And same with hip hop. At one point American hip hop became a bit boring, but France, funnily enough, really became interesting. Within the new ways of making hip hop, there's always things happening somewhere. You can't like everything, but there's always something interesting.

Laurent:

Whatever style of music you're listening to, there's always somewhere some people who are making things and making it survive and move on, and I think our task as djs is to search for that. I think it's great to have now so many different kinds of pr companies who represents labels and send you music. But I think a lot of DJs became a bit lazy because, um, it's easier now to send music, so it doesn't cost any money to send a link, when before it was costing money to send a vinyl. So now there's much more. We are provided with much more music than before because it doesn't cost any more money. And if you're in London, you're a PR company in London, you can send music in Australia in two minutes after the guy will have it. So you can expand your, the people you're working with very easily and so you can touch more people. So it's easier to be accepted on a PR company or by a PR company, and so we receive much more records than what we used to.

Laurent:

So at one point I understood that I was not going out of my house anymore. I was just receiving music and I was very happy. And this is when I thought no, this is not good. My job is to. Okay, I receive a lot of stuff, it's great, but it's to search if there is much more, if there is more of the stuff than what I get, which is good. And this is when I started forcing myself to go everywhere. And you know I have about 20 different blogs or online record shops, plus some other places where I go every week, and so you know I go to one and then I will leave 10 days and then I'll go back 10 days after and check whatever has been happening for the last 10 days. So I have a rule. You know I'm ruling over 10 or 15 different addresses where I go very often and try to check as much as I can the music. And then I understood that there's much more out there than what I'm receiving. But a lot of DJs have become a bit lazy.

Paul :

Yeah, it's interesting and I guess the connection with the dancers as well. I found it really fascinating here in Berlin, through the pandemic everything shut for a while and through that that was like the first time in 30 years or so that there had been just a stop to music and a stop to dancing. And when it started again, older generations became a bit critical of the newer generations of dancers coming in and I was wondering from your perspective, what do you feel? Have you critical of the newer generations of dancers coming in? And I was wondering from your perspective, what do you feel? Have you noticed that the newer generations bring into club culture that has been needed or wasn't there before?

Laurent:

I feel, since the pandemic, besides the fact that the music became harder or whatever, I feel that the line that the music became harder or whatever, I feel that the line between commercial dance floor music, which could be uh name what they were naming EDM, commercial stuff, and more on the ground music, the line has kind of disappeared. Music, the line has kind of disappeared. I remember very well that 10 or 15 years ago if you were playing a certain type of music in some places you would have been booed or the reaction would have been pretty hardcore. And nowadays I see that some festivals are programming DJs or acts which which would have have never been able to play their 10 years before.

Laurent:

So, I think the line between I'm not going to say good and bad, because who we are to judge music but the line between more commercial, cheesier music than more on the ground music that would represent maybe better the techno world, the line has kind of disappeared and so there's a lot of mixing and matching where I feel a bit uncomfortable because and it happened, and funnily enough it's not the first time, I think was it 15 years ago when EDM DJs became so big and a few festivals.

Laurent:

I remember, in Belgium especially, I kind of found myself playing with super over-commercial DJs on the same bill and we kept saying to the guys don't do it because it's not going to work, because whoever's going to want to listen to me will hate listening to Martin Garrix, for example, and whoever comes to listen to Martin Garrix is going to hate what I do. And I actually played in front of room, big rooms of young kids going like that you know been waiting like this. And then the second mountain, garricks, came yeah, because he played animals. And then before me there was jeff mills and during jeff and me they were like this yeah fuck is this guy playing?

Laurent:

so we told them, we warned them. They didn't listen to them, the parties were appalling and we kind of stopped going to play in these festivals which were in between the lines. But it kind of got it kind of separated for for a bit of time and then now, after covid, I think it's completely now the the the line between the two is very, very strange and I don't get it and I feel sometimes a bit not old. I don't feel old and dusty, but I feel uncomfortable with that because I don't feel related to some of the artists who today seem to say that they represent the new style of techno music. Because first, I don't see, quite frankly, I don't see anything fundamentally new within the music they play. It's not because you play harder and faster that it's new, because Gabber existed 25 years ago, so that's whatever.

Laurent:

So there's not much difference with what they play. The only difference it's they incorporated over commercial recipes in their music. Um, and and I'm like, no, this is no. I mean, if this is what we fought for for all these years, what the fuck, what the fuck, what's going on? But apart from that, I'm very lucky because I've always been choosing the gigs and clubs and festivals where I go and play, and it's very rare that I play in a place where I feel uncomfortable. So I'm usually having amazing gigs and I've kind of because of what's happening now and I guess, the way, let's say why the techno music and the way it's popularizing, popularizing.

Paul :

I don't know if it's a right word.

Laurent:

Yeah, I reckon that's right the way it's getting more and more popular over so much more people. I've said to my agents let's concentrate on smaller places, forget about festivals, or if we do festivals, we'll really target them. And now let's go back to clubs. So next year I'm basically going to do 95% of clubs.

Laurent:

But this is me, with my, my way of playing music, because I, for me, time is is, um, is is a luxury. You know, having time to be able to play music and to to uh present what I like doing is a real luxury. And I like I'd rather do a long set than a short one. I'd rather play in a shorter, in a smaller room, because I know I'm going to be able to fluctuate much more within the music I play and I will be able to express myself better. So as I don't do gigs for the money or to live, I don't care, I just do them for pleasure. This is where I'm going next year. So I'm fine, I'm fine as much as I can see the scene and see that sometimes I'm like why is he doing this artist on this festival? 20 years ago he would never do it. This feels strange to me because you've been fighting for some kind of strong image for over the years. And then now you're. I don't know you're slippery, but you know I don't go back there. That's it, it's okay.

Laurent:

It's okay by me. It's fine. I have no problem with it.

Paul :

Yeah, and that's not what you're known for either. You know you don't need to bring it in. Yeah, no, yeah, and I guess, like talking about like smaller places and connected to places that you feel a strong affinity for, it brings us to talk about the Fabric 25th anniversary that you're taking quite a big role in in terms of the releases.

Laurent:

I was very surprised. They asked me because I am not a resident at Fabric. I think I've only played four times there over 25 years. So it's really much less than some other clubs where I wasn't even resident but I played 20 times, than some other clubs where I wasn't even resident but I played 20 times let's forget about Le Sucre or Le Rex in Paris, where I played 155 times. But yeah, fabrique, I've only played four times over 25 years.

Laurent:

So I was very surprised that they approached me to do this big anniversary thing. Their argument was we never did a mix with you and we've did so many with you and with so many, and then we love what you do and you do represent the full spectrum of the story of that music. So, ok, that made a bit of sense. So I said to them listen, let me think about the project and then I come back to you. And this is when I came back and I said you need to be a bit ambitious to celebrate a 25th anniversary. So I asked them a few questions regarding all the music they've been playing there. Well, you know how many rooms. Well, I knew, I knew they had three rooms and I knew roughly the kind of music they've been defending. But we've had conversation and then I came back to them and I said, ok, I've got this idea. Let's, let's do one mix for each room. Let's do, uh, very targeted styles of music, uh, for each mix, knowing that if we do a techno mix, I will fluctuate from deeper to harder, from detroit to electro, to germany to whatever. If I do house, I'll try to do that. If I'll do uk, I'll start from slow to step and end up with drum and bass. I don't know how the fuck I'm gonna do that, but I'll try to do it. And then I said but we need to bring a bit more. And this is when I said okay, let's imagine someone comes for the whole weekend at fabric spends friday. Saturday, friday I'll be more UK music, saturday will be more house and techno. That person is very fulfilled. He's going to walk home. He might not want to go to bed straight away.

Laurent:

So let's say the fourth room is people's living room and what kind of music would they listen to? After 48 hours of music, they will want to listen to something a bit down tempo before going to bed. So let's offer them a down tempo mix and on top of that, use a lot of sound bites from all across London so make it really like a London signature to the mix and put together a mix with, you know, jazz and down tempo, electronica and perhaps pop and stuff like that. And they were like, oh yeah, this is really cool. And you know, I said to them let's kind of imagine what the fourth room could be and when you, when you play house, techno, drum and bass or things like that, what would be the fourth room? It'd be ambient, of course. So this is, this was the idea with the fourth, the fourth mix.

Laurent:

And after that, once I finished the mixes because because I I spoke to them at Christmas last year finished the mix within end of February, beginning of March, and in April, may, I came back to them and I said, listen, I had another idea. And they went oh my God, no, let's, let's see that I had this idea. Been listening to the mixes over and over again. I said, why don't I try to make four tracks, four original tracks that are influenced by the mixes? So I'll try to make a UK track, I'll try to make a house track, try to make whatever. And they said, oh yeah, that would be awesome and I said either we do four, we do nothing. So, as I don't doing a uk track is not really my my, uh, my thing of predilection, let me just try. If ever I can put something together that sounds, all right, I'll decide if we put it out.

Laurent:

And then I worked on the UK track first, got it quite quickly, funnily enough, and then it went yeah, I really like this, let's do it. So I did the house track and the techno track and, funnily enough, the techno track is the least strongest one of the whole EP. But I'm very happy with it, because I never liked EPs with too many strong tracks and I think it's quite nice to have one track that can be defined as like a little bit of Detroit kind of influence, which is the roots of techno music. But we're focalizing more on the house and the UK track. I like this idea. So you know, even though I knew the techno track was a bit less strong, I thought no, no, let's keep it that way, because it's going to wrap the whole project pretty nicely and it's cool, it's okay, it's okay by me, yeah.

Paul :

Yeah, it sounds amazing to me. I love the whole journey factor of it, like you know, and it's sort of really like you know and it's sort of really, you know, I I think I'm always attracted to like compilations and like albums that feel like you're going on a journey with the music I really wanted each, each mix to be a journey.

Laurent:

I wanted to, within the four mixes, to let the listeners decide which way they listen to the mixes. I wanted each mix to be able to be blend with the other one by using sound bites on all the mixes at the beginning, at the end, on all the mixes, having a track that has a proper introduction, having the last track having a proper ending. You as a punter, if you want to start with a UK mix and then go second with the down tempo one because UK is too intense, then you go down tempo and then you go to techno and end with house because you want something more joyful at the end, fine. But then again, if you want to do house, techno, UK and down tempo, fine by me and down-tempo, fine by me. So yeah, the idea was to each item had its own story within the evolution, trying to say something within the last 25 years of this music who has?

Laurent:

been playing in Fabric, so using all different types of music within the genre. That was the idea.

Paul :

What do you think I mean? Because fabric obviously making a big thing about it being the 25th um, and we live in a climate where, like say in the uk, more and more clubs are facing closure and everywhere it's not just yeah, and. And so what do you feel is like in essence for you, like the real importance of championing spaces like fabric, because clubs are the core, the, the, the, the essence of the whole history of this music.

Laurent:

Without clubs, this music might have never happened. And and I understand now that a lot of the younger generation, especially after COVID, wants to gather together into bigger places, see more DJs one after the other and stuff new generation might go to a club one day and experience the way a DJ can tell a real story, where, I think, when you're young, you're looking at the rush, the, the. You know the thing because you're young, so you just want to get the shit out of, out of your system and and you've got a lot of testosterone so it needs to come out. But after that you're listening to music in a slightly different way and they might feel that the thing with clubs is if you have good resident DJs, and that's a very, very important part. If you have good resident DJsjs within a year, as a punter you know that whoever is playing on that night guest or resident dj the music will be good. So it's a place that you can always go back to, where you will be part of a family and where you know the music will be good, where festivals only usually comes once a year. So okay, fair enough, I understand, in the summer everybody wants to go out, but what the fuck do they do in the winter if there's no festival? Especially if you live in cold places? Clubs will do the job and clubs tell the story differently than in festivals because the money is different. You know, the people who organize don't make as much money, so they can't book so many big DJs. You can't put 20 DJs one after the other, especially in smaller places, so you consume music in a different way.

Laurent:

And this is when I think you see the real depth of a good DJ when he plays longer sets. Do you know what I mean? I mean, I see a lot of up and coming DJs that have no idea of what it is to open a night with an empty dance floor. So they will come there and they will play straight away fast music. And it's like floor. So they will come there and they will play straight away fast music and it's like no man. You don't do that. You know, even within the genre of a hard style night, you can start hard, but not without pounding, and you know you can tell a story even within your, your type of music you play.

Laurent:

What I mean is being a resident dj is important and knowing how to play a whole nighter is really important. And I would say a lot of the new generation haven't learned that where some of the oldest, older guys if you take coxie or or richie or jeff or whoever you know all these guys they were resident djs. They, they played all nighters. They've been doing very long sets and you don't approach a long set the same way you approach a one hour and a half set. So the place where you can do things like that is in clubs. So I know, I know the history of club fluctuates and I know now a lot of clubs are closing, but clubs might reinvent themselves and there might.

Laurent:

There might be in two different places. Tomorrow there might not be in clubs anymore. Maybe, you know, in a restaurant you will be able to listen to music, push the tables and then start to dance. But we will always have confined, smaller places where the punters would be able to go any time of the year knowing that the music will be good quality. And if you look at Fabrik, if you look at Grelle Forelle in Vienna, if you look at a Panorama Bar or whatever in Berlin, you know, if you go to Tresor you will get a type of music and you know that usually the quality of the djs that have been booked is good. Usually you won't be getting cheese, cheesy music at trezor. So it's important to have clubs very important, vital, vital to the surviving of this scene.

Paul :

I mean making a connection there between another one of your loves of food and cooking. I feel that there's a connection between resident DJs and long sets and a restaurant and the cooks that work in a restaurant.

Laurent:

Of course the chef. You know very well. You lose the chef. Your restaurant's fucked, at least for a few months.

Paul :

You know that.

Laurent:

And you know that's fucked, at least for a few months. Yeah, and you know that's, that's the. That's the bigger problem for restaurant. You know, when you open restaurant with a chef and if ever the the the room argues with the kitchen and the kitchen leaves, uh you're in deep shit. If your waiter leaves, you can kind of sort it out, but but if your chef leaves it's complicated. So it's the same. The good ingredients of a good club is the person who will do the bookings and the staff which will make the experience good, which is from the way they say hello to you on the door, the way that the barman doesn't throw drinks at your face telling you fuck off, and the resident DJs the music you will get there. It's a whole, but the music is the kitchen, of course.

Paul :

I guess it works the same in the opposite way around. A DJ without the grounding in certain conditions doesn't also carry the same amount of experience to understand this.

Laurent:

I agree, I agree. This is why I'm saying I think it's important. My son is 20. He DJs a bit okay and he's in the generation where he could just watch TikTok DJs and say to me, dad, you're an old twat, you're dusty, I want to become famous. He's really in the position to be like this because I think there's a lot of new young kids today who sees that as a superstar thing. And I want to make money straight away and get girls and do whatever.

Laurent:

And I keep telling him I said, I said, arthur, um, I don't have any lessons to give you because you, you do what you want. But if you want just one advice, if I can just give you one advice, the best thing you could do is set a residency, get a place, a shitty place anywhere, and be there every single week. People will know that between 12 and 4 o'clock in the morning at blah blah blah there is DJ blah blah blah who plays that kind of music and the guy empty or full carries on every time and then, by doing this and play long sets and playing to empty, crub, crowded place, uh, 12 o'clock when there's 20 people, two o'clock when it's full, four o'clock when they're tired and drunk and six o'clock, when you only got like four guys hanging around like this you will learn.

Laurent:

You will really learn so much more than just go to a place which is super full and playing the 20 big hits, and he understands that. He knows that. So he's been doing a lot of good and a lot of shitty gigs, but I'm really happy he does this, because now, whenever he plays, people are telling me fucking hell, he, he gets it. And I'm like, yeah, he, he gets it. Because he's learned that and I think there's a few people nowadays. It would be good for them to learn how to play for no money, for no one, and to learn how to play to an empty room, because it's a different kettle of fish.

Paul :

Yeah, the shitty gigs are really important kettle of fish.

Laurent:

Yeah, the shitty gigs are really important. Of course they are, of course. And you know what Playing for your friends for Christmas or for your friends at New Year's Eve is a really different, is a really difficult thing. The most difficult crowds are your closest crowd, your friends, your family. You know you do something for the family. Getting everybody to dance for five hours one hour is okay, five hours is different. And these are the gigs where you learn so much. Yeah, of course I.

Paul :

It's interesting because I've both been in bands and been a dj and it. There's just opposite reactions on that, because when you're in a band and you you play like a cassette or a cloud of the tunes you've done, your friends will pretend to like it, whereas when you dj to your friends, they're not going to pretend to like it, they're going to be like no, we want you to do this for us now.

Laurent:

We want you to make us yeah, I want this. And then they give you the spotify list yeah it's, it's, it's, it's.

Laurent:

It's a different thing. So we are not like this when we play in clubs. But what I mean is it's nice to learn, not the hard way, but to learn the full spectrum of the thing, because I think it gives a bit a bit of depth into what you play, as much as walking in an empty club and being being smashed by hardcore music is is a complete and alter. I would say it's the wrong thing, as much as you should know when to place the cherry on the cake. For me, DJing is always like playing cards. You keep some cards to bring them down at the right moment to have your stronger effect, and it's like a recipe or something like this you build, you build, you build, you build and at one point bang, you put one card and the whole thing will go like this but from that you can't go higher. So bring it down, bring it down. It's a roller coaster and you need to learn that. I think that's very important, Very, very important.

Paul :

Laurent, thank you so much. There's some really amazing DJ life lessons that you've shared with us there. Thank you.

Laurent:

But you know what the youngsters might think I'm an old twat.

Paul :

Thanks so much for your time. Thank you, merci beaucoup. Thank you, have a good day, you too as well. Merci beaucoup, thank you. Have a good day, you too, as well. Bye, bye, bye, bye, bye. Okay, so that's what happened when me, paul Hanford, met Laurent Garnier for the Lost in Sound podcast, and we had that chat on the 13th of November 2024. The Fabric presents Laurent Garnier, celebrating 25 years of Fabric Limited deluxe vinyl and CD is released on the 29th of november, which, if you're listening to this podcast, the day or the week it comes out, is this week, and it's absolutely fantastic, an absolute, mega, epic journey.

Paul :

And if you like the show, if you like lost and sound and you haven't already, please do give it a subscribe, give the show a rating and a review on the platform of your choice. It really really, really, really, really really does help. You can listen to my radio documentary the man who Smuggled Punk Rock Across the Berlin Wall on the BBC Sounds app or on the BBC World Service homepage. And Lost in Sound is sponsored by Audio-Technica, the global but still family-run company that make headphones, turntables, cartridges, microphones, studio-quality yet affordable products, because they believe that high quality audio should be accessible to all the music that you hear at the beginning, at the end of every episode of the show is by Thomas Giddens. I always put a hyperlink in the podcast description, and so that's it. Thank you so so much for listening. Thank you for letting me into your personal ear space and to have to share these conversations with you. I look forward to being back next week with you again and, yeah, whatever you're doing today, have a fucking great one. Thank you.