Lost And Sound
Lost and Sound is a podcast exploring the most exciting and innovative voices in underground, electronic, and leftfield music worldwide. Hosted by Berlin-based writer Paul Hanford, each episode features in-depth, free-flowing conversations with artists, producers, and pioneers who push music forward in their own unique way.
From legendary innovators to emerging mavericks, Paul dives into the intersection of music, creativity, and life, uncovering deep insights into the artistic process. His relaxed, open-ended approach allows guests to express themselves fully, offering an intimate perspective on the minds shaping contemporary sound.
Originally launched with support from Arts Council England, Lost and Sound has featured groundbreaking artists including Suzanne Ciani, Peaches, Laurent Garnier, Chilly Gonzales, Sleaford Mods, Nightmares On Wax, Graham Coxon, Saint Etienne, Ellen Allien, A Guy Called Gerald, Jean Michel Jarre, Liars, Blixa Bargeld, Hania Rani, Roman Flügel, Róisín Murphy, Jim O’Rourke, Yann Tiersen, Thurston Moore, Lias Saoudi (Fat White Family), Caterina Barbieri, Rudy Tambala (A.R. Kane), more eaze, Tesfa Williams, Slikback, NikNak, and Alva Noto.
Paul Hanford is a writer, broadcaster, and storyteller whose work bridges music, culture, and human connection. His debut book, Coming to Berlin, is available in all good bookshops.
Lost and Sound is for listeners passionate about electronic music, experimental sound, and the people redefining what music can be.
Lost And Sound
Ezra Feinberg
What happens when music and psychoanalysis occupy the same creative headspace? This week on Lost and Sound, I chat with Ezra Feinberg—composer, guitarist, and practicing psychoanalyst—about the deep interplay between experimental music, the subconscious mind, and the subtle forces that shape creativity.
We dive into Soft Power, his latest album—a lush, hypnotic fusion of minimalism, kosmische music, ambient soundscapes, and psychedelic influences and one of my favourite albums of the last 12 months. We talk about how intention and perception collide in music, whether the emotions a listener feels mirror what the artist originally set out to express, and what it means to truly trust the creative process.
Ezra shares how his twin worlds of music and psychoanalysis aren’t as far apart as they seem, touching on problem-solving, patience, and artistic intuition. We explore the realities of navigating a career in underground music alongside parenthood, and how New York’s evolving music scene has shaped his journey.
Plus, we get into formative influences, spontaneous collaborations and the long game of making music on your own terms. A conversation about sound, time, and the quiet forces that shape creativity.
If you’re enjoying Lost and Sound, please do subscribe and leave a rating or review on Apple, Spotify, Amazon, or wherever you listen. It really helps to spread the word and support Lost and Sound.
Ezra Feinberg on Instagram
Soft Power by Ezra Feinberg is available on Tonal Union, Bandcamp.
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Lost and Sound is sponsored by Audio-Technica
My BBC World Service radio documentary “The man who smuggled punk rock across the Berlin Wall” is available now on BBC Sounds. Click here to listen.
My book, Coming To Berlin: Global Journeys Into An Electronic Music And Club Culturet Capital is out now on Velocity Press. Click here to find out more.
Lost and Sound title music by Thomas Giddins
soft power, psychoanalysis and the subjective nature of creativity. How does this all connect together? Well, today I get deep with ezra feinberg and you'll find out. Hey, it's paul, and this is lost and sound. Weekly conversations about underground music, creativity and the people that make it happen. But before we get going, a shout out to my sponsor, audio-technica, the global but family-run company that make the headphones I'm wearing right now and whose mic you hear me do every interview through. They make studio-quality yet affordable products because they believe that high-quality audio should be accessible to all. So, wherever you are in the world, head on over to Audio-Technicacom to check out all of their range of stuff.
Speaker 1:Okay, so this is the show. Thank you, hello and welcome to episode 160 of Lost in Sound. I'm Paul Hamford, I'm your host, I'm an author, broadcaster and a lecturer, and Lost in Sound is the weekly podcast where I chat with an artist who works outside the box, from global icons to trailblazing outsiders and emerging innovators. We talk music, creativity and perhaps that most daunting part of being an artist the praxis of life. And perhaps that most daunting part of being an artist the praxis of life. Previous guests on the show have included Peaches, suzanne Shiani, jim O'Rourke, cozy, funny Tootie, mickey Blanco and Thurston Moore and, as always, it's really nice to hear your thoughts and feedback on last week's episode. Last week I spoke with Alvin Otto and my DMs are always open for feedback. You can reach hold of me through my Instagram, probably the easiest way, which is at Paul Hanford, and my guest today is a musician, composer and psychoanalyst. He's Ezra Feinberg.
Speaker 1:Now I got in contact with him because around the end of last year, I started listening to his most recent album, soft Power, and I just totally fell in love with it. I'd not heard of him, soft power, and I just totally fell in love with it. I'd not heard of him before, but I just totally fell in love with this album now. He's been a key player in various underground scenes for several decades, as a founding member of the san francisco-based psychedelic outfit ct, recently ambient explorations with earth room at new york's ultra hip nowadays, but also, uh, he's been collecting up a body of solo work in in more recent years, leading to this album, soft power, which I just as I mentioned, I just totally fell in love with. So I just thought I really, really want to have to have a have a chat with him on the show about this and circling into this album.
Speaker 1:Um, soft power is an instrumental work and I feel it has some line in with minimalism. There's an element of cosmiche of fourth world, even a cheeky little wink to exotica, and I know that I connected to this album just really just on an emotional level. It's one of those records that reminds me of how music can summon emotions that defy easy explanation, and I'm always interested if the feelings that I feel when I listen to something. That reminds me of how music can summon emotions that defy easy explanation. And I'm always interested if the feelings that I feel when I listen to something Are even in the same ballpark as what the composer of the music was intending or, more likely, was feeling at the time they were working on it, because music is so subjective. And also, if you enjoy the show, give it a subscribe, if you've not done already.
Speaker 1:Give the show a rating and a review on the platform of your choice on Spotify, amazon, apple, wherever you choose to listen to it. It really, really really does help build the show. If you don't fancy doing that, pass the show on to someone else who you feel like might enjoy it, or even just listen. I'm so happy that you're here listening to the show. Um, so, yes, this is what happened you're about to hear now. This is what happened when I uh had a chat with ezra feinberg. How are you doing?
Speaker 2:okay, um, yeah, pretty good. I mean it's rigid. Here in new york it's like a 5 15 degrees fahrenheit, so it's intense.
Speaker 1:Just getting around I can see by the scarf it's, it's very much. Yeah, it's just it's.
Speaker 2:It's it's way beyond scarf weather. I mean it's indoor scarf weather.
Speaker 1:It's very similar in berlin the moment. I've got cracks on my hand from the cold, from my lack of investment in remembering where last year's winter gloves were and not buying ones yet for this year it's weird.
Speaker 2:Winter is so weird. Now it's like because of climate change, you just absolutely cannot plan for it. Like last winter, it was sort of mild and there was cold snaps here and there, but then it would be raining, and this winter it's just been wall to wall, freezing ice and snow, you know, yeah, yeah, I kind of prefer, but then when I'm in the middle of this intensity I'm like could use a break you know I mean I, I'm a big fan of the seasons really Me too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've never really subscribed to this idea that it's got to be summer all year round.
Speaker 2:Right. No, I'm not into that either. Definitely.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think by the end of every season I'm ready for the next one. I feel like it's about the time when you leave a party, isn't it Like? I feel like the end of September is that time of going. Okay, the best part of the party's gone now it's getting a little bit stale. It's time to. Yeah, definitely, I'm with you. Thanks so much for speaking with me today. I'm such a fan of soft power. I feel like it's one of those albums that I don't hear that often. That's got like. It feels like it's got a very self-contained vibe to it. Um, like it all feels like part of the same thing, like it's part of something perhaps even bigger than than just a bunch of songs. I mean, was, was there like a philosophy or an idea behind doing it?
Speaker 2:um, no, no is the short answer. I mean, I have a process that has some brief kind of deliberate parameters in the beginning where I think this sound might be cool with this sound or this kind of vibe might be interesting in this other context that it's not usually in. Let's try it. But then once it gets into the actual sort of trial and error of making endless sort of two minute demos day after day, things definitely start to emerge that are unintended and that I could never plan for.
Speaker 1:Right yeah, cause I know the improvisation is part of your technique. What do you have? Any particular kind of rules that you you go along with that or in the, in this case, for soft power.
Speaker 2:I mean in a way like improvisation. If you think about it, it is sort of a is sort of the only technique of composing or making art on some level. You know what I mean. Like you're always drawing on a process of spontaneous creativity, um, or usually, I guess unless it's, like, you know, a commission or someone else's idea that they're asking like a soundtrack, I don't know anyway, but the only rule is that I that it has to resonate with me authentically and, um, that's really tall order and it takes a lot of work.
Speaker 2:It doesn't take a lot of work to make something that I think while I'm making it, this is cool, but it takes a fuck of a lot of work to make something that I think the day after I make it and the day after that I I still think this is cool, I think this is cool, and then the next day I think this is shit and that's and it is. And then there are these rare moments that can only come for me at least, they can only come through all that work where I think I know this is a cool idea and then, once I have the idea of something that feels real, that feels vital, that feels like I don't know that that sticks with me. Then the the real writing process begins right, okay.
Speaker 1:So when you say, with, the real writing process begins, so do you feel like when, when you've got to this stage, or when you've got to a stage where things have started to really form and you know you really, really like these ideas and they've they've lasted the test of several days, and going back and listening, do you find that themes start to emerge or like, maybe not even like word based themes, but like themes around, like emotions or shapes or colors that you, you feel that the album is pulling towards um, a given piece will pull me in or push me away when I'm once.
Speaker 2:I'm in that kind of proper writing process, like once I'm, once I have the, the, you know the, the melody or the riff or the, whatever it might be, like the one small thing that I build the rest off of. Once I have that, then I'm experimenting with different possibilities for what it is and I feel a push away from certain ideas and a pull toward certain other ideas. I mean, in a way, the process, what I'm calling the real writing, the sort of proper writing process, is not that different from the messing around process. The only difference is that I'm messing around on one thing that I believe in you know what I mean one one um motif or whatever, or progression or whatever. It might be that I that I believe in and I do. But then, when it's done, I do find myself I think I do find myself drawn to, to certain sort of emotional themes I guess I don't know if that's the word, but for example, with the when, when dave lackner, the flute player, plays all over the record, sent me back the, you know I.
Speaker 2:It was remote at the time, so when I sent him future sand, the opening track, and you know I I just still love his solo so much. And what I loved about his solo was how much and about his playing actually throughout the whole record was how much joy there is in it, how playful. It feels a little irreverent, a bit of a wink, but not too much, because there's also real and deep pathos in his playing too. So you know, and I think that I kept going back to him because he just has that style without thinking, but I didn't say play something, you know, play something like ecstatic, you know joyful to the point of ecstasy, but he does it anyway, and that's what I want. It turns out, but joyful to the point of ecstasy, but he does it anyway, and that's what I want. It turns out. I didn't know that, but then, you know, I wasn't surprised in the end to find, oh, I'm drawn to this part of his playing, but then like, yeah, so I think there yeah.
Speaker 1:So I think I think there I do notice certain consistencies that feel like me basically Not me like my personality, just me like can't remember the word you mentioned even though it's just now, but the sort of interpretation for something gone by that you find very, not not a nostalgia for like a music or a time, but like maybe for like an experience or an emotion you know that are sort of bittersweet. So when you sort of mentioned about like the flute, having this sort of playful, almost tongue in cheek kind of, I guess I've got this optimism or something. You know that that's how my brain goes into it as something from the past that is just beautiful, that makes you a little bit sad and happy at the same time when you, when you experience it.
Speaker 2:I think I felt that too.
Speaker 2:I'm glad that you, that you, that you have that similar experience.
Speaker 2:I mean, yeah, and I I think it's, it's, I guess maybe part of what I mean about what I said earlier about like juxtaposing things, because the tune there's something mournful about it, you know, and also it has this sort of it wound up without, again, without any intentionality. It wound up having a bit of like I don't know if other people hear this, but I do a bit of a sort of library music, exotica, just on that track, not the whole album, but just on that, on that track, you know, a sort of um. It ends with these sort of washes and um his synthesizer plant you know it's an electronic wind instrument but it sounds like a synth, you know has this sort of um like sixties beachy, wistful, beachy vibe and and it just sort of emerged that way. When we started to put it all together and we went with it, you know, and thought, well, this is cool, and so to have that kind of light, playful flute solo in, that just was a nice juxtaposition I think.
Speaker 1:I do too, and it's that you mentioned about the 60s library kind of thing, and I felt that too. I think I made some notes when I was listening the other day to it again, and I do think of something like Air Moon Safari, which is an album that doesn't sound at all like what you've done, but there's just this sort of way of like, maybe like even subconsciously referencing another style of music, without going into the kitsch or without going into they kind of do.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I mean, um, yeah, yeah, I think it's a fair comparison. I mean I don't I, I was never a huge fan, but but I I think, yeah, I think it's a fair comparison. I mean I was never a huge fan, but I think, yeah, probably. I totally see the overlap.
Speaker 1:I mean, and also I mean the title Soft Power itself how did that come about? Because it's quite a you know it's quite not loaded term, but it's a term that, like I think, has a particular amount of resonance to people and perhaps to these kind of current times as well, if we think about what happened, you know, in the last 24 hours, where we're seeing the world moving towards the opposite of soft power. You know what does soft power mean to you?
Speaker 2:you know what. What does soft power mean to you? Um, I mean gosh. You know, I I keep this bucket list of titles. It's endless. There's probably hundreds, if not thousands, of names that I just phrases, words that I just find evocative. Whenever I hear one, I write it down. You know, I'm like pretty immediate about that. Soft Power was one of them. I don't remember where I was when I heard it, but it started as the name of the track and that was the.
Speaker 2:Soft Power and the Big Clock were the first tracks that I recorded, because I usually record like one or two songs at a time and just put a lot into those, you know, and then okay, they're done. And then I keep going, you know, and I thought, wow, this would be a cool, possibly cool name for the album. But whoa, like, it's kind of a. It's a, it's a real statement in a way. You know, and I didn't want it to be too bonk you over the head with. You know, whatever it is you're trying to do, but it just stuck with me and it never, I never, you know, I just I never. But it just stuck with me and it never, you know, I just I never. It stuck with me to the point of sort of giving into it and it's such an evocative and strange term. It does have a real meaning in the real world of geopolitics, but it's an ironic meaning, I think, given the words, and I guess I think a part of me liked the idea of redefining it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and it's a really good album title as well. It's sort of two very, very kind of very sort of photogenic words, and I wanted to ask a little bit about your other job as well, because you're also a practicing psychoanalyst here I am, here we are. I mean is is there? I mean, I must get quite busy sometimes balancing these, these two realms. I mean is there, is there an overlap for you between making music and being a psychoanalyst?
Speaker 2:um, yes and no, I mean not directly. You know, there is a whole, a whole world, fascinating, really cool world of what's called music therapy, which I don't practice but, um, although I have a lot of respect for it. But, um, I think that the overlap comes in the way in which both require long stretches of working through problems and conflicts, with conflicts with unpredictable results, but where the process requires a lot of faith. Yeah, and you're right, it does get busy. It also gets busy because I'm a dad with two kids. That would be the main thing. If I wasn't that, it would be all quite manageable. But I am that and I love being a dad and I love having a family. But, yeah, it's hard to balance, for sure, um, and then you have the, but it just forces you to choose. It forces you to choose what's really important and it sort of it's made me kind of double down on my commitment to music, for you know like, and and made me appreciate that I can still do it.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, do your kids listen to your music.
Speaker 2:I mean, my kids are seven and five and they know that I'm a musician. They've seen me play a couple of times. I think that they are curious about what it's all about, but I think they think my music is weird, like they don't ask for it. You know what I mean. Like my son, you know, is developing an interesting musical taste. He's either really into these like very goofy songs found on Spotify that are about Harry Potter that I'll let you go find if you're curious about them but he's also really into ACDC and the Beastie Boys.
Speaker 1:That is great. Yeah, ACDC was the first concert I ever went to see. My dad took me when I was about 14. And it felt like going into a grown-up world that previously I'd only glimmered on, like watching films or something like that.
Speaker 2:This would be a Brian Johnson era.
Speaker 1:I believe so. Yes, yes, this was probably about 1988 um thunderstruck oh, my rafa, my son is obsessed with thunderstruck.
Speaker 2:He likes thunderstruck, he likes um tnt and he and he and and um. What's the other one that he really likes? Oh, and Hell's Bells. Yes, he's really into Hell's Bells, he, he. It's funny when I I try to teach him about music all the time and I've, and there was a long time, like he's seven now, when he was like four and five he was really into the Beatles. He's been really into different things at different points. But now whenever I tell him about a band.
Speaker 2:The first thing he asks is um, how many of the members of the band are dead? Wow, okay, he's so used to me being like well, you know this band. They were really popular a long time ago and people still really liked them, but this one guy died, you know whatever.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the passage of life, isn't it? And I mean, how is?
Speaker 2:that he's like a budding goth or something yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean that might come in a few years time, that there's just a mercy phase.
Speaker 2:Probably yeah.
Speaker 1:What about for you? How did music come into your life? Was there a particular moment or like a rite of passage that you went through about that?
Speaker 2:I mean, I can't really remember a time that I wasn't very, very into music, to be honest, like going all the way back when I was like six and seven I was really into like all the early hip hop. I was really into run DM, early hip-hop, I was really into Run-DMC and I was obsessed with the movie Break-In and Beat Street. And it wasn't long after that I got into the Beatles, totally obsessed with the Beatles. And I just feel like by the time I was a teenager I I absorbed all my dad's records. You know he was sort of a classic boomer Neil Young and Rolling Stones and Queen's Clearwater Revival, that kind of thing, all the Woodstock era stuff, james Taylor and Carly Simon like this is all around my house a lot. And then and he was into jazz too and as a teenager I guess, I started playing guitar when I was 12 and I was all in immediately and was playing in bands. Pretty soon after I started playing like mostly cover bands in high school and stuff and pretty bad classic rock cover bands, like doing Jimi Hendrix covers for at the school talent show, kind of thing.
Speaker 2:And then in college I went to Bard College, which is a small, very kind of artsy school in upstate New York, not far from where I live now actually, and the Bard music department was full of all these kind of heavy new music people and jazz people. Thurman Barker from the Art Ensemble of Chicago was there for a long time. Um, art ensemble of Chicago was there for a long time and so I just, you know, and everyone was obsessed this was in the nineties obsessed with Sonic, youth and um and the kind of indie explosion at the time, and I just sort of I took it all in, you know and um, I went to England when I was 20 and wound up playing in piano, magic um and you know, met glenn johnson was 30, which seemed very old and sophisticated at the time, you know and I was the drummer in that band and did a record I guess we did an ep, but he taught me a lot and just being in that band taught me a lot of. Being in being in london in 1997 was amazing, you know.
Speaker 2:So it just it just just kept rolling.
Speaker 2:I mean, after that in my 20s it was like mostly rock bands, different kinds of which were really dependent on, like, whoever I was collaborating with, whatever friend I was collaborating with at the time, and then eventually I sort of it was funny because I was always like a band leader type but I always felt like I needed someone else to collaborate with who seemed cooler than me, basically.
Speaker 2:And then I, by the then, in my late 20s, I sort of mustered the courage to really do something. That was just me and that was Cité. And that was the first time I really released music, you know, on a label, and toured extensively in in the us and in europe and and just met a thousand musicians and you know, it was just a whole. These many worlds were opened up to me like through um, through that and um, yeah, and then, and then I, and then, after that I mean just to bring us to the present I sitay, went on for about eight years three albums, countless lineup changes because it was my project. I kind of brush with the big time, because dead oceans was a, you know, obviously is a is a big label in that world. And then I met my wife, jesse, and was really burned out.
Speaker 2:Around 2012 I had moved back to the city from san francisco. I was in san francisco for six years and I at that point had been in and out of graduate school, you know, and taken some time off from it and come back to it, and it was sort of chaotic and I needed to I won't say settle down, because it's a terrible term, but I needed to get my shit together and so I did and I took some time off of music, which was necessary but painful and then around 2015, I started messing around with guitar loops and doing solo weird solo performances like at diy spaces in Brooklyn, and started thinking about making a record. And putting out music under my name was never anything I considered before, and then I suddenly felt like I could do this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you mentioned just then about the burnout and this feeling of, uh, the the pain of not making music. Um, at the time, did you experience the feeling that you might never go and make music again?
Speaker 2:or not for one second. I knew I was gonna go back. Yeah, knew I was gonna like it's a it's an overused term but I knew I was to kind of reinvent myself in some musical way. And I didn't quite know how and I had some. I had like a really long. I had a cool collaboration for about a year with my friend Alexis from ARP, and I worked on stuff on my own and I just knew I was going to figure out some way to do it. It was just a matter of when and I just sort of had to like rethink the whole thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I mean, I guess there's this sort of honesty in the idea of, like, we all go through metamorphosis, don't we from time to time? And I think sometimes there's a danger of hanging on to things when they're long past their use to us or to anyone else. And was that like it for you at the time beforehand, with Sita, towards the end of that, or do you notice these things, I feel?
Speaker 2:like you don't know where you are in life in these stages until you're in the next stage. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And so I didn't know like. I remember, you know, like sit, hey, I had moved back to New York. I put together a lineup here in the city. You know we played a bunch of shows around early 2012. I was here in the city, you know we played a bunch of shows around early 2012. We were scheduled to open for Osmo Chancha's fucking amazing thing, and this was in the summer of 2012.
Speaker 2:And then sometime like that spring, it turned out like they couldn't secure their visas from Brazil and so the show was canceled, and at the time I was studying for this licensing exam that was I found really, really hard and I just thought I can't do this right now. You know, I just can't. And then that just turned into an extended hiatus and you know, and and Jesse and I were like had a really rapid kind of process of getting together and getting engaged, getting married. You know, like it all happened like in kind of a bit of a fever, so it was necessary, but but yeah, and I knew I was going to go back and, um, I just didn't know when yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And what would you say was the biggest differences between what you're doing now? I mean, I know you collaborate with people like the soft power is a very collaborative album, but essentially going under the, the, the banner of being a solo performer and and retaining that kind of soul identity to it, yeah, I mean it's like it's.
Speaker 2:To me it's a pretty hard cut between that collaboration and like real collaboration. You know what I mean. Like the, the, the. The most significant collaboration of soft power is between me and John Thayer. They produced it and he's a brilliant engineer and brilliant, brilliant producer and I leaned on him a lot. He was amazing throughout this kind of epic two and a half year process of making the record. The other collaborations with the other musicians were really cool and fun, but they mostly consisted of like I have this idea. Here's where it is in the tune Can you do something like this and this? Yes, I can give me a, you know, three weeks Great.
Speaker 1:That's it. You know what I mean. Kind of all outsourcing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's kind of closer to outsourcing, but, at the same time, like I have a truly collaborative project with John Thayer and this and Robbie P, the, the, the you know called earth room, and we put out a record in 2022 and we're working on another one. I have another collaborative project with Jeffrey Cantu, la Desma and and our friend Omer, who also plays with me on my stuff, but the three of us have a thing you know like. So those are like real collaborations. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:And I feel like there's a big, there's a pretty. To me maybe probably not to everybody, but to me there's a significant distinction between like the outsource-y collaboration, where this is my record, and the like real collaboration of like Three Musketeers-y thing, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and I mean in your subjective view, because I think this is a very subjective sort of question. What would you say is what do you look for in terms of someone you're very, very involved with musically, or even perhaps like what do you feel that is something that you look for in yourself when you're collaborating with other people?
Speaker 2:um, I mean looking for, like, when I look for in terms of other people to collaborate with, it's always been very kind of like natural and spontaneous. You know, like always, um, like like with earth room, I got asked to play this big space in in bushwick and brooklyn, like five years ago, six years ago and and at this, like usually it's at this place it's called nowadays it's a dance club with a crazy sound system.
Speaker 1:Yes, I've heard about them. That's rich.
Speaker 2:And then once a month they have this thing called Planetarium I don't know if they still have it, but like beanbags, super ambient, chill out, like night. And they said will you come play this? And I said sure, and I was doing these kind of solo guitar loop sets. And they said can you come play and give us two hours? I was like no, you know, like no. I mean, I said yes, but I couldn't do that on my own, so I got Robbie and John to do it and so it was under my name that night.
Speaker 2:But we had so much fun playing that suddenly we were like this is obviously a band. And then we started working on our record from there, getting together here and there to jam and record With Jeffrey and Omer. These guys I've been playing with since I moved up to upstate New York. Jeffrey and Omer you know these guys I've been playing with since I moved up to upstate New York. Like Omer is an amazing chef and he, like would make us Indian food for lunch, like every Thursday. And then we just started jamming after lunch for like an hour and then we'd like go back to our day or whatever we were doing, you know, and then we just started doing it, but we were doing it every week.
Speaker 2:So now we've doing this for almost a year and, like and like, you know, a lot of really cool ideas have come up. We've made a million iphone recordings. We're going to go into the studio at some point and, like, do it. You know, um, but I didn't plan that either. Not at all, you know. I don't even remember whose idea it was to play. I think like there was a dinner party some night and we wound up like having like a kind of droney jam like on a lot of wine one night and it was fun. You know what I mean. Like these things just kind of emerge, you know yeah, yeah, and it is the atmosphere around it.
Speaker 1:Very important because you mentioned there about the indian food and then the wine, you know is that they're sort of like outside of music things that are always quite good to enhance an improvisation or a performance oh yeah definitely. What else would you recommend in that context?
Speaker 2:I mean, I think it more starts. I mean like I love ind, indian food and I love good wine, but like I, I but that makes me sound like a bit I don't know what or something I don't want to sound like, but I think it's it's more than that stuff. That stuff is great and important, but more than that it's like about our friendship. You know, yeah, like kind of having a sense of potential that you could take your friendship a little farther.
Speaker 1:You know, it's like it's like friends with benefits, except we don't like hook up, we play music yeah, I've experienced that with with great in a creative situations as well, is something that is beyond friendship. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I mean finally, I mean this is a very I do ask this of all my guests, so it's not just like a kind of psychoanalyst kind of question I'm throwing at you, even though it's probably not proper psychoanalyst question but what would you tell your younger self?
Speaker 2:about what?
Speaker 1:like you meet yourself at a very key point in your development and and you have maybe a few minutes to tell them something it's a great question.
Speaker 2:Um, I mean, a few minutes is not long enough. I would need like hours or days, you know. Um, I mean, I think, I think I can think of a lot of things, but something to do with like, try to um, like it, I I would want to tell myself that, at least in music, it's a long game, you know, and creativity and art takes time and, um, it takes time, it takes work, it takes experience, and that it's important to be patient. I think that I was an extremely impatient younger person and I feel like I was putting things out into the world prematurely a lot just because I wanted, because it all felt so urgent and there's something beautiful and cool about that too. Because it all felt so urgent and there's something beautiful and cool about that too.
Speaker 2:Um, you know, you have to. Your band has to have its like first shitty show, you know, so that you can go back and like write better songs. But I also could have used a bit more patience and a bit more of a sense that this is lifelong. No one's going to take this away from you. You know you have this and you can have it. You know you can always have it and that I think that some part of me always thought that if I didn't do it all right now, someone was going to take it away from me.
Speaker 1:I can really relate to that. Actually, I feel like my early experiences of making music, um, were very, very, very on the tender hooks. Really, you know you, you think you, you know, get a record out. You think maybe this is the only time I'll ever get a record out. So this has got to be like everything. Or you know, you're playing a gig somewhere. You're not sure if you'll be allowed back again again to do it. You know, maybe that's what I'm saying confidence as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's what I'm saying, exactly, yes, exactly and so, and you know, it turns out that, you know, with with some blend of inspiration and logistical determination, you know like you can make it happen. You know you need a lot of both, but I think there are too many people my age I'm 48, who were musicians and who were, who continue to be in love with music, but who kind of signed off because they thought they just couldn't any longer. Um, and you know, people make their decisions and that's okay, but but, um, I, some part of me wishes that it wasn't seen as such a young person's thing.
Speaker 1:Ezra, thank you so much for chatting with us today, yeah thank you.
Speaker 1:Okay, so that was Ezra Feinberg there chatting with me, and we had that chat on the 21st of January 2025. Thank you so much, ezra, for sharing your time and thoughts with me there. The amazing album soft power is out now on tonal union. If you've not listened to it already, do go and check it out. And, yes, please do send me a message and let me know what you think of it, what kind of emotions it brings up to you and, and yes, uh, really interested to hear what you think about that. If you like the show and you haven't already, please, please, give the show a subscribe, give the show a rating and a review on the platform of your choice. It all really, really, really helps. You can listen to my radio documentary the man who Smuggled Punk Rock Across the Berlin Wall by heading on over to the BBC Sounds app or on the BBC World Service homepage, and my book Coming to Berlin is still available in all good bookshops or via the publisher's website.
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