Lost And Sound
Lost and Sound is a podcast exploring the most exciting and innovative voices in underground, electronic, and leftfield music worldwide. Hosted by Berlin-based writer Paul Hanford, each episode features in-depth, free-flowing conversations with artists, producers, and pioneers who push music forward in their own unique way.
From legendary innovators to emerging mavericks, Paul dives into the intersection of music, creativity, and life, uncovering deep insights into the artistic process. His relaxed, open-ended approach allows guests to express themselves fully, offering an intimate perspective on the minds shaping contemporary sound.
Originally launched with support from Arts Council England, Lost and Sound has featured groundbreaking artists including Suzanne Ciani, Peaches, Laurent Garnier, Chilly Gonzales, Sleaford Mods, Nightmares On Wax, Graham Coxon, Saint Etienne, Ellen Allien, A Guy Called Gerald, Jean Michel Jarre, Liars, Blixa Bargeld, Hania Rani, Roman Flügel, Róisín Murphy, Jim O’Rourke, Yann Tiersen, Thurston Moore, Lias Saoudi (Fat White Family), Caterina Barbieri, Rudy Tambala (A.R. Kane), more eaze, Tesfa Williams, Slikback, NikNak, and Alva Noto.
Paul Hanford is a writer, broadcaster, and storyteller whose work bridges music, culture, and human connection. His debut book, Coming to Berlin, is available in all good bookshops.
Lost and Sound is for listeners passionate about electronic music, experimental sound, and the people redefining what music can be.
Lost And Sound
Bartees Strange
Bartees Strange makes music that doesn’t sit still. One moment it’s soaring indie rock, the next it’s touched by soul, punk energy, or the weight of hip-hop—yet it all holds together in a way that feels completely his own. We sat down in a quiet Berlin hotel room to talk about the creative process behind his new album Horror, produced by Jack Antonoff and released on the iconic 4AD label.
Bartees doesn’t approach songwriting as a straight path. It’s more like piecing together different fragments until something unexpected clicks. “I might write five or six sections and not know they’re in the same song until I start plugging them into each other,” he said. That instinctive method pulls influence from across the board—Fleetwood Mac, Parliament, Burial, Neil Young—and filters it through a sound that’s urgent, intimate, and ever-shifting.
What stood out most in our conversation was his view on genre itself. For Bartees, it’s not just about music—it’s about identity, and how people are often encouraged to box themselves in. “Music is representative of people,” he told me. “And people separate themselves from each other because of all these things that don’t make sense. Through music, I can show people that all those things you thought were unique to you are also unique to them.” His work holds a quiet defiance, a kind of gentle political energy that moves through emotion rather than statement.
Before committing to music full-time, Bartees worked as deputy press secretary at the FCC under Obama. That experience brings a clear-eyed perspective to his writing—but it was never about strategy. “I tried not to do it. I got a job, I worked… but after a while, I was like I’d rather just not survive than not do what I want to do.” That sense of risk and necessity lives in every note.
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Listen/Buy Horror by Bartees Strange here
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Lost and Sound is sponsored by Audio-Technica
My BBC World Service radio documentary “The man who smuggled punk rock across the Berlin Wall” is available now on BBC Sounds. Click here to listen.
My book, Coming To Berlin: Global Journeys Into An Electronic Music And Club Culturet Capital is out now on Velocity Press. Click here to find out more.
Lost and Sound title music by Thomas Giddins
so I've got a question for you how many degrees of separation are there between lost and sound? I saw the tv glow and the tortured poets department. Well, as you can guess from the reason that I'm saying that, asking you that is, there's probably less than you would imagine. They've all got something to do with my guest on today's, lost in Sound, the genre blurring and very magnificent Barty Strange, and we sat down for a face to face chat in a hotel room in Berlin and you're very shortly going to hear what happened. But before we get going, lost in Sound is sponsored by Audio Technica, a global family-run company that make headphones, turntables, cartridges, microphones, studio-quality yet affordable products, because they believe that high-quality audio should be accessible to all. So, wherever you are in the world, head on over to Audio-Technicacom to check out all of their range of stuff. Okay, let's cue the music. Thank you, hello and welcome to episode 167 of Lost in Sound.
Speaker 1:I'm Paul Hamford, I'm your host, I'm an author, a broadcaster and a lecturer and if you're new here, lost in Sound is the podcast where each week, I chat with an artist who works outside the box, from global icons to trailblazing outsiders and emerging innovators. We talk music, creativity and the way it's all connected and bounded together as life. And so I'm sat on a bench in Berlin and it's quite a sort of sunny but still slightly cold day, and I'm recording this intro to you in advance, like a week before the episode drops, because the week it comes out I'm going to be in Hamburg. Out, I'm going to be in Hamburg, I'm going to be on a secret mission, and this is something really exciting but I can't really tell you about, other than tell you that it's secret and I'm away in Hamburg. But I will be able to share it with you sometime in the future I'm thinking like a little way off in October. But until then, yep, that's just me telling you that this is the podcast being recorded by me in advance.
Speaker 1:And today you're about to hear an in-person conversation I had with Barty's Strange and, like last week's guest, david Longstruth, barty's music leans into the more rockier parameters of the Lost and Sound vibe and, as you know, this isn't just an electronic music podcast. It's more of a feeling that drives me to the curation of the people I want to speak with. It's like there's a collective feeling and and bartees strange, very, very much to me, fits well within lost and sound feeling and, as you'll hear from our conversation, barty's use of genre is something that feels very intuitive, like on his new album horror, where he blends indie rock, hip-hop, punk, soul and a sort of 70s I don't know, a kind of 70s filter. That feels very, very deeply personal. And if you know his previous albums live forever and farm to table you'll know what I mean. His work speaks to identity, place and transformation in a way that's both deeply rooted and sonically really inventive. And also, like david longth, barty seems to be able to exist both simultaneously in the mainstream and in the avant-garde, and on that is worth noting that, in terms of mainstream stuff, the album Horror is produced by regular Taylor Swift producer, songwriter Jack Anatov. Yet more in the avant-garde, I first heard of barty's work not that long ago, actually, when through the film I saw the tv glow, which featured his song big glow.
Speaker 1:But anyway, before we get into it, as always lost in sound, although I'm super, super chuffed to be sponsored by audio technicachnica is a one-man operation, one human being operation, and I love doing it. And if you want to let me know how much you love these episodes too, if you do hit subscribe if you've not already, and give the show a rating and a review on the platform of your choice. It's always super, super, super, super appreciated. Anyway, so back to the episode. So, bartees Strange, we had this conversation on the morning of Friday, the 28th of February 2025. Bartee was in Berlin doing a promo tour for the horror album. The horror album, I should also say, is out on 4ad, one of my favorite labels of all time. And yeah, it was a friday morning, it was still quite wintry, um, and this is what happened just been like a little busy with promo and stuff.
Speaker 1:But yeah, yeah I'm tired, but it's good, yeah I mean because've been doing this quite a few years now things like tiredness and being on tour and waking up in hotel rooms. What kind of hacks have you developed for yourself to pick off?
Speaker 2:to yourself. I don't have any hacks, I've just always been able to do it. I just like pull myself up and just just move, just keep moving, don't stop moving this is a quite old school kind of way of looking at it. Yeah, yeah, we have like all these, like hacks and tips for like better living.
Speaker 1:But then there's like the classic kind of just get up and do it yeah, just go, it'll be fine. Yeah, you're just tired just tired, yeah, but being tired before we'll be tired again, yes yeah, that's a part of the job but he's strange.
Speaker 1:Welcome to lost and sound.
Speaker 1:Uh, thanks for having some time for me to me today.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um, so I kind of wanted to sort of start by asking you, you know, ask you a few questions, like leading up to the horror. And I think one of the things that is like one of the most initial surface level things that I find when I listen to your music is the genre jumping and blurring, um, and the way things kind of seem to kind of like effortlessly flow between different styles, like I was listening to Hit it, quit it this morning, having my flat white, and just the way it starts with this kind of very sort of summery hip hop music and then jumps into something that for some reason in my head reminds me of like Frank Zappa and I wanted to know how. And that kind of echoes across like all of your work and I wanted to kind of know how deliberate because it feels a little bit playful how deliberate that is or how much, how sort of intuitive that is yeah, I mean I never go into the song trying to be like, oh how, I'm gonna try and blend all these things.
Speaker 2:I just kind of see what feels the best. And I don't think of the song as a straight line, I think of them as just all different line segments that can connect with each other, and so I mean I might write five or six sections and not know they're in the same song until I start plugging them into each other and I'm like, oh, that's really cool and that gives me an idea to try something else. You know, so I like that song's. That's really cool and that gives me an idea to try something else. You know, so I like that song's a good example of that, where both of those the verse and the chorus were two separate songs that over time just became the same song. They just worked together.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow. So it's kind of like you're both like your own Lennon and McCartney in a way, like doing like a day in the life, yeah, I guess. So yeah, that's funny. And is there sort of how much does like intuitiveness sort of play into like your kind of creative process sort of generally, you know, how much do you sort of feel like you're kind of mapping stuff out compared to like seeing what happens?
Speaker 2:I'm mostly just seeing what happens. Like seeing what happens. I'm mostly just seeing what happens. Um, I may hear one thing, but I don't know where it's going to go, you know. So I'll have the initial idea and I'll just kind of play it for a while and I'll record it and step away from it. And then I'll get another idea, record it, step away from it and eventually I start to hear how these ideas connect, and then I just kind of start to explore from there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I mean talking about like horror, that one of the things that jumps out to me and listen to most of your music is it sort of feels like there's a, it feels like music, that's like really in love with music yeah, it's like the I can hear like influences but I don't feel like they're sort of like slavishly copying, but it just feels like there's a love of texture and referencing and stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, how does it? How does that play in for you dude? Yeah, I mean like for dude. Yes, I mean I feel like horror is like a love letter to music. It's like so much music I love in that record, from like fleetwood mac to parliament, to Parliament, to Sly Stone and Burial to Radiohead it's just all these bands I've idolized as I've grown up and this record feels like a big pot of all of that music and I feel like with records I get caught up in eras, that music and I I feel like with records I get caught up in like eras of music. Yeah, and I felt like with my first record it was very like two indie sleeves 2005, 2008, indie rock.
Speaker 2:And my second record felt a little bit cleaner, you know, like something that was more of like a Bon Iver bending into like a hip hop. You know fortet kind of thing. You know pop stuff. You know I was kind of there.
Speaker 2:But this one I was in love with this idea of like the late 60s and 70s and thinking about like Parliament and Neil Young and Fleetwood Mac and Joni Mitchell and how all those bands were making music but they were all also hearing each other's music, yeah, and they were reacting to it in writings, from that too, you know. And I was like in love with that idea because I feel like people separate those great artists by genre, but those artists didn't separate themselves from each other. But those artists didn't separate themselves from each other and I wanted to explore that connection. That, like that music is all the same, and horror became like a way for me to kind of play with those sounds, you know, at least for like half the record. And then I went somewhere else in the back half, but the first like five-ish songs is like that, and then I kind of jumped from there into another place.
Speaker 1:It's really interesting what you're saying about like how we often view these artists as being quite separate and different genres, rather than playing off each other like yeah, um, last year I spoke with Blixer Bargeld from Einste Zender Neubauten for the podcast and he was saying how, like in the late 70s or early 80s, jimmy Page invited him over for lunch and wanted to sort of you know, you're the new guy, let me speak to you. And I always sort of thought, like you know this really avant-garde Berlin noise thing, what would Jimmy Page have in common with that? But I kind of realize that there's this sort of secret history of music where maybe it's more about the people that label things rather than the actual people that label things.
Speaker 2:Well, my favorite anecdote is like you know, rick James and Neil Young. Yeah, you know Rick James being in Neil Young's band for years and then getting thrown in the brig. Neil Young goes on to become Neil Young. No one believes Rick James when he says that's one of my best friends, yeah. And then five years later they both had the Grammys together and it's like yeah, there you go, these are friends. Yeah, like these are normal people. Or like when I listen to like the Isley Brothers Ernie Isley's guitar playing, and then like the Brothers Johnson's guitar playing and um eddie hazel's guitar playing, and then I hear jimmy page's guitar playing, and I'm just like jimmy page loved the isley brothers. Yeah, had to. He must have loved parliament. Funkadelic, or like that riff from it. It quit it. It's like such a parliament thing, but it's also like a led zeppelin thing and it's also like it's a lick that is indicative of that era.
Speaker 1:you know, and like yeah they were all drinking from the same source. Yes, yes, yes, and like I think they were kind of adding their own little ingredients to it, then someone else would go oh, that's a nice ingredient.
Speaker 2:What did you do?
Speaker 1:I don't know what you did, but I'm gonna see if I've got the ingredients in my cupboard to do something like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, and that's like the cool part about music yeah, yeah Is like there is no genre to the musician, and I feel like people are always like you're such a genre bender and da-da-da-da-da, and I'm like I'm just a musician. This is just what musicians have always done, you know.
Speaker 1:Like you write a song, then you hear a song, then you write another song, you know, and that's the exchange, you know? I mean, I think it's like case by case, but I do wonder sometimes if to stick to one, what could be labeled as very clear genre very precisely involves more thinking about genre than not.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think so and and that's so cool. I mean, I really have a lot of respect for people who just like live in a world, you know, but I was always just like more interested in how those worlds connect. Yeah, you know, that's it.
Speaker 1:Sometimes it's about communication, other times it's about saying I do one thing and I just want to become the best at this very one. You know, like the person in the kitchen that does the one little thing really really well, and other the kitchen that does the one little thing really really well, yeah, and other times it's about like groups of seeing how we're all interconnected, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that's what I'm interested in and I'm sure, you know, one day I might be like I'm writing a country record and that'll be fun, you know. But I, I really, maybe it's just because of how I also listen to music and how I think about sound. I'm always just like I wish people would be more open to. I think music is representative of people, and people separate themselves from each other because of all of these things that don't make sense. Yeah, and I feel like through music, I can show people like all those things that you thought were unique to you are also unique to them. Yeah, like there's way more in common than you would imagine, and music is like a really easy way for me to show that. So, yeah, I've.
Speaker 1:It's interesting because that's actually quite political um, and I feel like um political music doesn't have to be political in a kind of capital letters way. It's about intention and belief and how we just let things express through us well, that's how I feel.
Speaker 2:Going from a Parliament song to a Fleetwood Mac song. It's being like this is a similar world, like these two artists are different but they both love the same things. And it's not that and I love them both, yeah, and I'm sure you do too, you know, like that's kind of the point, you know yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely yeah.
Speaker 1:And I mean I want a little bit about the themes of horror as well because, um, I noticed that, like the line of best fit recently and I don't know whether it's rather glibly or not I described you as like the georgian peel of music and I I don't, but like, in terms of like, talking about like horror and identity, you know, I was wondering what resonates to you for kind of creating an album called horror. That does seem from initially for my listening to it and reading about it, sort of tackle various aspects of fear and there's like an aesthetic sort of vibe of the horror as well, like you know.
Speaker 2:I was wondering if you could just sort of say about, tell me about how yeah I mean I think of the record as this thing where you know it's less about like monsters under your bed, it's more about like growing older and realizing that for you to be happy, there's these fears you'll need to face about yourself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and like it, this record just kind of goes through, like some of mine, you know, like fear of like intimacy or fear of being like a people pleaser too much or, you know, not knowing where to live and settle down.
Speaker 2:You know, in life, you know things like that that, like when you're 20, you don't really understand how those big things can just rule your life, you know, and now then you're like in your mid thirties and you're like all I think about is like paying rent, like, or my parents getting older, or if me and my brother and sister should be closer, or like if I'm really happy. You know like those are the things you start to think about and you're like I need to deal with this and not run from it anymore. You know, and because, like those things are kind of hard to talk about, I wanted to create like a character or like something that I felt like I could speak through, which is something I'm interested in doing more, because I don't really love my personal life being that public, and so it's nice to create these little characters that I can be for an album to just kind of talk about these things that I don't really want to talk about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, is there an element as well of that or of, like you know, we're talking about like sort of picking different styles of music and sort of finding the connections with them? Is it a bit like that as well, with like taking something personal and I'm finding like a kind of an aesthetic character, for it can be like a kind of a blending?
Speaker 2:thing. Yeah, maybe like a kind of an aesthetic character, for it can be like a kind of a blending thing. Yeah, maybe, I don't know. I think of it as like armor. Oh right, yeah, okay, it's like when I put that on, then it's easier for me to talk about you know yeah, do you use it.
Speaker 1:Who are your favorite like musical alter egos?
Speaker 2:oh, like of artists, yeah, mf, mf Doom, right, the greatest, that's like the greatest, the greatest. Mf Doom, all of his alter egos, victor Vaughn, king Ghidorah, they're amazing. I love like, hmm, buckethead.
Speaker 1:Right the guitarist.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah. Buckethead is awesome. I just love that whole idea. It's cool. Also, it's not an alter ego, but Nick Cave Right.
Speaker 1:The suit that actually has come up a few times recently. Yeah, there is something I feel like he steps into.
Speaker 2:Yes, it's amazing it's almost like the suit. Yeah, there is a sort of something like I feel like he steps into yes, it's amazing, it's almost like the suit is is nick cave, which is really amazing. It's kind of cool to think about.
Speaker 1:You know, like those are some of them yeah, I think that that's a really good list. Actually, yeah, mf doom. I was going to sleep the other night and some of you know you have random thoughts when you're going to sleep and I started thinking about MF doom for some reason, and I, you know, when you sort of just fall asleep and then you start to kind of wonder whether something actually existed or not. I was stuck in. Did we really? Were we really lucky enough to have had a MF doom? Am I just imagining this guy now because it just seemed really surreal? He's unreal.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm, what do you need? He's unreal. He's unreal when he. He's unreal he. When he died on Halloween, I was like Halloween. Yeah, I was like this guy's a superhero. This is the most superhero thing that could have ever happened. Yeah, rip, rip. One of the greatest artists of any form. Yeah, it's like the Basquiat of of rap. Yeah, you, it's like the Basquiat of rap. Just a brilliant, brilliant person. Create your exit. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And you mentioned about vulnerability with horror, with songwriting generally. Do you find the? Is there an angle of, I guess, like horror or fear that plays with vulnerability, like does you know like it can be really like a vulnerable process, kind of talking about stuff you know, even just like having for some people, like having music online is a vulnerable thing. Yeah, yeah, and like what was it like for you in terms of like do you use? Is there a way that you use vulnerability in a personal way, I don't know.
Speaker 2:Music has just been always easy for me to be more honest than like real life. So I'm always in a vulnerable state when I'm writing. But I feel like it really happens when I'm writing lyrics, right Like, because I really hate writing lyrics, because I have. I feel like it really happens when I'm writing lyrics Right Like because I really hate writing lyrics because I have to like really go somewhere to write them. It's always like the last thing I do and I kind of dread it the entire time, but like when it comes to the arrangement and the music, that's like the most fun. Then, when it's time to like, like really write the lyrics, I'm like, oh no, I have to like give something. Now I have to really give something, and that's always tough.
Speaker 1:Yeah, do you have to? Is it one of those things where you have to like hide your phone and kind of get yourself going right? I've just got to do it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, kind of Um, it just takes me some time yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I wanted to ask you about, like um, cause you were born in, born in ipswich, yeah right, yeah, I don't. Before I met you today, because I've never heard you talk like it, for I wasn't sure whether to like I was going to hear an american accent or like, all right, mate, yeah, um, and I was wanting to talk about, like you know, growing up and things like that. So, growing up in ipswich, what you know, um, what was the family situation like? Was there like a kind of part? Was there like a musical influence going on there?
Speaker 2:yeah, my mom is an opera singer and um, so I grew up with a lot of classical music and my dad is just like a big music fan. Um, collects a lot of records, loves music like live music, um, yeah, he married a musician, so you know tracks, yeah. But, um, you know, I grew up like my parents were also really religious, yeah, and so I wasn't allowed to really listen to the radio when I was growing up until I was like making friends who drove cars, and that was kind of when my musical world like shifted and I loved music the whole time but I just didn't think I could make any right, I didn't have that impulse. But then I started hearing bands and I was like, oh, you don't have to be a uh, you know, world-class pianist to write a song, you can just write a song. And that was like a big door for me.
Speaker 1:What were the bands that you were hearing?
Speaker 2:The first bands I heard that I really fell in love with when I got a little older, like middle school, high school age Block Party was a big band for me. Helicopter, particularly At the drive-in, that was a huge band for me. Like just as a guitar player, I was like I want to be omar rodriguez lopez, like I. I was like this guy's he's so ugly and so beautiful love that.
Speaker 2:That's the perfect sweet spot yeah, you know it was so much expression. I was like I want to be that free on an instrument. You know I loved it. Tv on the radio, radio head and rainbows came out when I was like a junior in high school and you were in America by this point yeah. I was in America. That was like mindica, that was, that was like mind-blowing. I was like, okay, I get it now what was?
Speaker 1:what were like about other people? Like, because I always imagine, like a lot of those bands you listed like, particularly the british ones, as being like I, I just have this idea that they were like perhaps a bit fringe at the time in america. You know what? Were you connecting with other people about this, or was this something that you were discovering like on your own?
Speaker 2:I was kind of discovering it on my own and like I always had like an interest in British music just because I was from there and I loved there was some music I would find like downloading, like on LimeWire, like that. Like like that's how I found J Paul, yeah, like that. Like like that's how I found jay paul, yeah. And I remember like welcome to mumbai and like all that stuff, and I was like this is a. I've never heard anything like this. And then I found like burial archangel through that and I was like this is amazing. Mount kimby, then eventually james blake, and so I was kind of like using, I was interested in the british stuff, the klaxons that's so funny. Uh, golden scans, you know. Um, fucking, the song was a. Sorry, you're not a winner. Sorry, you're not a winner.
Speaker 2:I got my inter shikari, but I'm shikari, yeah, you know, like I was really into that shit too, so I was finding stuff. Um, I was just kind of just open to whatever. I downloaded it off illegally, basically.
Speaker 1:I love that LimeWire era sort of talking like you know, the mid 2000s to like late 2000s, I guess here there was something very like. I feel like to me that was like when the internet felt quite free, in a way you might get really bad. I listened to some music I discovered. I feel like to me that was like when the internet felt quite free in a way. Yeah, it was just sort of okay, you might get a really bad. I listened to some music I discovered in a really bad quality through LimeWire as well, like you would have like these like mp3s that were just like crunchy
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah that's how I first heard the XX right, yes, I'm crystallized. First time I heard it it was like it was like 16 bit, you know, or whatever you know. And then I remember seeing like a live performance and I was like, oh, it sounds way better, this is nice. Yeah, I didn't even know, I missed that, I missed, not even knowing.
Speaker 1:Like it's nice, yeah, yeah do you think like you could like um, I guess because everything comes around in circles and there's things like the sound of vinyl run crackling has been incorporated as a general texture in music. Yeah, I was wondering do you imagine in 10 years' time you could make a really low, like a line wire sounding piece of music? I could imagine it could be a trend for Definitely Dude.
Speaker 2:The other day I saw this on on YouTube. It blew my mind. There's this young artist who put out a record, put out a song in like she posts the video on Tik TOK and it's like in seven, 20 P or whatever, and she goes three 60 P version coming out next week and I was like, oh my God, you know like I was like they go on 240p.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:They want to do the ugly little shitty videos.
Speaker 1:This is what it's about.
Speaker 2:This is what it's about, or like I see people with, like their uncle now their uncle's flip phones at the shows, taking pictures on their little flip phones from like when I was in middle school yeah, and they love how it looks.
Speaker 1:That's the polaroid of now, yes, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yes, that is it. It blows my mind. I'm like I wish I would have kept all that. Well, whatever you know, this is what everyone says.
Speaker 1:you know, when you get, you get older and you're like oh, I had, I was wearing that 20 years ago, you know, and it's like only last year I got rid of and that kind of thing. If only I'd kept up just for another six months, who knows. Yeah, what were the stages where you felt that music was something that you could actually do and make like a kind of a living doing, or at least prioritise that for yourself.
Speaker 2:Oh, I mean, I was probably in my late 20s and I was just like I want to do this, even if it it like ruins my life. I became obsessed. It just my. I tried not to do it. I put it off. I got a job, I worked. I was like I'm gonna do this and I was miserable and I was like I don't want to have to do music, I gotta be able to survive. Then, after a while, I was like I'd rather just not survive, then like I'd rather just let me. I just want to do what I want to do and if it's bad, then I'll accept that that's my mistake to make.
Speaker 1:I'll make that mistake that's a, that's a sort of thing that the artist has to face. That that sounds really pretentious the way I said that, but there's a sort of thing that if it's in you it's not going to go away and it will not go away.
Speaker 2:It's an obsession. You can't help, you just can't. You cannot do it.
Speaker 1:Am I right in thinking that you worked for the Obama administration? Yeah, I did yeah yeah, are you allowed to talk about that, or is that like?
Speaker 2:yeah, it's chill. Um, I was a deputy press secretary um for the fcc, the federal communications commission, um, which is just one of the regulatory bodies you know in dc. Um, it was cool. You know, I uh worked there on a lot of technology policy issues and during the time when net neutrality was like a really hot buzz, like policy idea, and so it was cool, we got a lot of like. We got to interface with the white house a lot and brief them and make sure they knew everything so they could talk about it and help develop policy around it. It was interesting. Yeah, did you ever run into Barrett? Not really, I met him at in a line of people you get to shake his hand, kind of thing After a dinner or a huge fundraiser event or something like that.
Speaker 1:But no, I never really got to sit in a room and chat Didn't have that kind of thing where you're both in the same lift and the lift breaks down and you end up kind of sharing stories, but I I was honored to be a part of.
Speaker 1:Like his, thing, you know, feels like a. Really. I mean, see, now, um, with what's happened in the last year, in the last couple of years, in the last month, really it feels like a. I mean, this is the dark side, I guess, of like talking about, like you know, this golden era of like the noughties in terms of like limewire. There's also been like looking back at things, like Obama now seeing like it's such a crazy time, you know, I mean as a touring artist, and like leaving America and coming back to it. How does it feel for you at the moment, you know, with what's going on?
Speaker 2:Feels like we're about to enter uncharted territory. It's hard to tell and it's like nobody knows what to do. It's pretty weird. I feel like in America people are like oh, we were wrong, like we thought we were going to be okay. We might not be okay, fuck right, you know. Like that's how it feels and no one really has a plan, because the rules aren't really like.
Speaker 1:no one understands the rules, do they Like? This guy is like every day seems to be sort of doing something completely freestyle. There are no rules, yeah.
Speaker 2:But they've been saying that the whole time. Yeah, they've not been playing by the rules this entire time, which is something I remember feeling 10 years ago. Which is something I remember feeling 10 years ago, even when I worked in DC. I remember being like we're playing by rules, but they aren't, so eventually they're going to win because they don't have anything to lose. Like you know, the scariest thing in the world is to fight someone with nothing to lose. Yeah, and it's like they're just like they'll die for it, and we're not, we're not. We don't feel that way, you know, and so that's a tough person to have to score up against. Yeah, so I think that a lot of people in America that are on the left are kind of like they're going to have to learn how to fight a new way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean even here, though, in Germany there's some weird stuff going, you know, with the elections I saw it was, like you know, 19% of the vote went to like what's the ADT IFD?
Speaker 1:That is very scary.
Speaker 2:That's tough. It is very tough, particularly considering the country's history.
Speaker 1:I was like that's tough. It is very tough, particularly considering the country's history, to sort of yes, that is.
Speaker 2:I was like that's one in five yeah, yeah, that is you know that's.
Speaker 1:I mean Berlin is like. Berlin is, I imagine it's like similar to like New York or LA or London, where it's like it's like luckily Berlin voted in the left, but yeah like at the same time as that, like take a short ride out and you're in some completely different texture.
Speaker 2:America's like that right now, but also the thing that's weird about America. I grew up in a really conservative place in Oklahoma. When Obama was running, there was Obama figurines hanging from trees and all sorts of crazy stuff, you know, burning his, like they would make these little fake obama statues and burn them, and it was pretty scary. And I also, like, knew a lot of those people and they were people that were, yeah, that would do stuff like that and like they were nice to me. Yeah, you know, and it's like it was this weird thing of like you don't even know how racist and messed up this is, but you have this capacity for like kindness. That is just you're misplacing your emotions like you're mad about something that you don't even know how to connect with right now, and that's kind of what I feel about our country's obsession with Trump.
Speaker 2:It's so many people who have their feelings, are misguided and they don't know where to put their anger and their resentment and they're being directed by this guy to put it in this place. Yeah, but that's not what's going to save them, and I think over time, they're going to realize that their lives aren't getting better by hitting all these people Like it's like I wish they could all be in therapy, just so they could know. You know that it's just like you have feelings that are being put in the wrong place. You know like you need it's not anyone's fault why your life is the way it is. You know like you have to take some responsibility for your own life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, therapy, just therapy, for everyone, yeah yeah, which you know.
Speaker 2:It's funny hearing trump and them talk about therapy and medicine and all these things that are helpful to people and they're trying to erode those opportunities.
Speaker 1:And I'm like, yeah, because they know that if their base starts thinking for themselves, they might have a new idea yeah, their base is like, their stock is like keep the stock in this condition, to you know, keep them at a state of continually like simmering into boil yeah, and that's how we stay here, yeah oh my gosh. But I think I guess the positive I mean, even though it doesn't feel like something that's connected to a reality. Now, the positive I'm picking up before you're saying is the love will save us all.
Speaker 2:No, no, okay, I scrapped that. Love won't save us all, but like time, will you know, and I do think like time is a crooked bone, like it, it kind of it hurts sometimes, but it always functions. And like I do think time is powerful and over time things become released, things become out in the open. Nothing can hide forever. Eventually, the truth ekes its way out, and after it ekes its way out, and after it ekes its way out, more time passes and then it solidifies, it gets bigger and bigger until it's hard to ignore. Yeah, and I feel like they're living a lie, like they haven't seen the truth yet, but they will yeah, yeah they will.
Speaker 2:And every day, a few more, do you know? And a few more people realize like, oh, this isn't working out the way I thought it was gonna work, you know, and I think that for the democrats, like we need more ambition. Yeah, you know, it was a huge lack of ambition from joe biden and the dnc. I was like how do you expect to beat this guy? You're bringing a knife to a gunfight. You've got to have a little more.
Speaker 1:It felt like a PR defense rather than anything. I felt like being an outsider to what's going on in America. It felt like I related this to what's happening in in America, like it felt like and I related this to like what's happening in the UK with like the left in the UK. It felt like it was just a defence position yeah.
Speaker 2:I couldn't actually see what they stood for. Yeah Well, it's like playing not to lose. Yeah yeah, instead of playing to win. Yeah, you know, I was like we look soft, like these guys want to win. We're just trying to protect. What are we trying to protect?
Speaker 1:they felt like the people in the hotel lobby that are trying to cover up something that's happened behind the hotel, just like saying it's fine, we'll get this sorted, but they can't really talk about what's going on. Yeah, it's not going to work, no, I mean. So switching a little bit back to the music, and I feel like I mean I might be wrong to say it, but I feel like in some ways, you seem to have a foot in two very different worlds in one context, like, on one hand, it's like there's your DIY roots and there's like a real underground quality to like a lot of your work and a lot of the way you've turned your music into a career. Uh, then there's also this aspect of it that feels like very like high res and, like you know, uh, like the last album working with jack anatole and like his connection to like people like taylor, swift and these ones.
Speaker 1:I mean there's again there's like maybe echoing to what we're talking about earlier on. There seems to be this very sort of people talk about the difference between, like, underground culture and mainstream culture quite a lot. But I was wondering for you, like someone that's sort of navigating their way in the industry and I I get the impression sort of doing things that you feel are right for yourself. Just does these, do these elements sort of feel like connected to you, or do you feel like they're more just like labels that are just Personally, it's like I feel like I'm my own thing.
Speaker 2:I'm reminded of this all the time, but it's true about all walks of life where it's like your journey is going to be unique to you, it's not going to be like anybody else's. And that's how I feel about my life. You know like I do stuff sometimes where I'm like I can't believe I got to do that, you know, and it's not like any of the people I look up to got to do that. That's just something I got to do, you know. And so, like working with like jack and all these you know people you know look up to got to do that. That's just something I got to do, you know. And so, like working with like Jack and all these you know people you know that I've got to meet, whether they're small artists or big artists or labels like 4AD or whatever, I'm kind of just like wow, it's like all these little things I got to do and that I couldn't have predicted, that I couldn't have predicted.
Speaker 2:And I also, in some days when I'm really confident, I think about people like Jack and people like Aaron Duzner and Brittany Howard and all these artists. I think of them as schools. I'm like this is like the school of Jack Antonoff, like the pop producer that's always had a band. There's another guy that did something similar to it, named Aaron Desner, had a band and then became a producer, has both, I think, of Lucy, dacus and Phoebe. Where I'm just like this is like this trio of these enigma incredible songwriters who would just be able to do it off the strength of their music. And then I see me and I'm like I think I'm just my own thing. You know, it's like there's not a lot of people that were like me before me and I'm just going to do, I'm just going to see what it turns into and we'll just go from there.
Speaker 1:That's a lovely way of putting it? Yeah, and what would you tell your younger self, like you know, before you set down the road of making music full time, or when it was just maybe, just like a little glimmer of an idea that was like not quite tangible enough to I don't think I'd tell myself anything.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'd just be like you'll be OK.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, bartiz, thank you so much, thank you, thank you, thank you. Okay, so that was me, Paul Hanford, talking with Bartiz Strange, and we had that conversation on Friday, the 28th of February 2025, in a hotel room in Berlin. Thank you so much, bartiz, for sharing your time and thoughts with me there. And Horror is out now on 4AD. If you like the show and you haven't already, please do give it a subscribe. If you're feeling extra special, nice, give it a rating and a review on the platform of your choice. If you like what I do and you want to check out other things I do, you can listen to my radio documentary the man who Smuggled Punk Rock Across the Berlin Wall by heading on over to the BBC Sounds app or on the BBC World Service homepage, and my book Coming to Berlin is still available in all good bookshops or via the publisher's website, velocity Press.
Speaker 1:Lost in Sound is sponsored by Audio-Technica, the global but family-run company that make headphones, turntables, cartridges, microphones. They make studio-quality yet affordable products because they believe that high quality audio should be accessible to all. If you like the music you hear at the beginning, at the end, of every episode of lost and sound it's done by thomas giddens. You can check out more of his stuff by hitting the hyperlink to his instagram in the podcast description. And so yeah, that's it. I hope, whatever you're doing, you're having a really lovely day, hope you're staying safe. You're looking after your loved ones. Your loved ones are looking after you. I. I wish you lots of love and I'll chat to you soon, thank you.