Lost And Sound

Nicola Cruz

• Paul Hanford • Episode 170

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Talking with Nicola Cruz feels a bit like tuning into a different frequency—the producer and DJ has spent the last decade helping redefine perceptions of South American electronic music through a series of transcendental releases and live appearances. Based in Ecuador, Cruz doesn’t give many interviews, so I was super happy to have this rare conversation

He talks about his approach to DJing, where instead of scanning a crowd, he locks into the energy of one or two people and lets that guide the set. It’s a more intimate, slower way of connecting, sometimes taking hours, and sometimes never quite happening at all. But when it works, it shapes everything.

We also get into his field recording work—using geophones to capture the movement inside glaciers, recording whale sounds deep underwater. These aren’t just sonic experiments; for Cruz, they’re a way of exploring how we relate to the parts of the world we can’t usually hear. His new album Kinesia lives in this space—somewhere between the physical and the imagined.

At the heart of it all is a deep belief in creative freedom. Though he’s formally trained, Cruz talks about the importance of unlearning, of breaking structures down in order to build something new. 

If you’re interested in where electronic music, listening, and inner exploration overlap, this one’s worth your time.

Listen to Nicola Cruz’s music: Spotify | Bandcamp

Listen to Kinesia: Spotify | Bandcamp

Follow Nicola Cruz on Instagram: @nicola_cruz

If you enjoy Lost and Sound and want to help keep it thriving, the best way to support is simple: subscribe, leave a rating, and write a quick review on your favourite podcast platform. It really helps others find the show. You can do that here on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you like to listen.

Thanks also to this episode’s sponsor, Audio-Technica – makers of beautifully engineered audio gear. Check them out here: Audio-Technica

Want to go deeper? Grab a copy of my book Coming To Berlin, a journey through the city’s creative underground, via Velocity Press.

And if you’re curious about Cold War-era subversion, check out my BBC documentary The Man Who Smuggled Punk Rock Across The Berlin Wall on the BBC Sounds app.

You can also follow me on Instagram at @paulhanford for behind-the-scenes bits, guest updates, and whatever else is bubbling up.


Speaker 1:

all right. So you know that lost in sound is the podcast that goes deep with voices reshaping our musical and cultural landscapes. You know that, you know that and I'm really happy to share this conversation with you because this one's been a long time coming. Uh, my guest today doesn't do that many interviews now, so I was super happy that he chose to speak with me at Lost in Sound and for me to be able to share it with you. It is Nicola Cruz and you're going to hear that very shortly. But before we get going, lost in Sound a little word from our sponsors is sponsored by Audio-Technica, the global but family-run company that make headphones, turntables, cartridges, microphones. They make the mic that I do absolutely every single interview for the show with. They make studio quality yet affordable products, because they believe that high quality audio should be accessible to all. So wherever you are in the world, head on over to Audio-Technicacom to check out all of their range of stuff. Right, should we do the show? Thank you, hello and welcome to episode 170 of Lost in Sound.

Speaker 1:

I'm paul hamford, I'm your host, I'm an author, a broadcaster and a lecturer, and lost and sound is the podcast where every week, I chat with an artist who works outside the box, from global icons to trailblazing outsiders and emerging innovators. We talk music, creativity and the way this all connects to life, and so, whether you're new here or you've been riding with me for a while, it's good to have you along, um I. So, whether you're new here or you've been riding with me for a while, it's good to have you along, um, I hope, whatever you're doing today, you're having a really lovely one. It's it's summer now. It feels like it's actually summer in berlin. It's a saturday afternoon. Whilst I'm recording this, it's proper lake weather. I'm, I'm, really I. I could be at a lake right now, but instead I'm editing this. I'm feeling that pull to go and swim in some water, but I'm also feeling the pull to put this conversation out, because it's a real fab one.

Speaker 1:

Today we're going over to Quito, ecuador, to have a conversation with the electronic artist Nicola Cruz. It's 10 years now since his breakout album prender el alma came out. Drawing the album did from andean rhythms, modular synthesis and deep ambient textures. I remember it creating quite a buzz at the time, and over the last decade, nicola's been quietly yet profoundly changing the narrative about what south American electronic music can be Along the way. He's built up a global reputation through live sets and DJing, and the two albums he's made since 2019's Siku and then last year's Kinesia, each take a real evolutionary jump forward.

Speaker 1:

So, as I mentioned before the intro music, this one has been a little while in the works and he doesn't give many interviews, so I was super happy that he chose lost and sound to have a conversation and it's really interesting why, when you listen, way explains why that is so. We got really deep and he's a thoughtful, smart guy and he shares some really insightful stuff. I'm particularly thinking back about it now, about how what he shares, about some of his methods for reading a crowd whilst djing um, we talk about, like, the transcendental nature of making music, about field recordings, about interpreting nature. There's a lot of stuff going on. There's a lot of stuff here and I had a really good hour spent talking with him.

Speaker 1:

But before we get going, as always, lost and sound is a one-person operation. I'm super happy to have audio technica, but but help with the sponsoring of the show. But everything you hear, it all comes from me. So if you want to show your support and love, the best way you can do it is by making sure you're following the podcast. Um fancy, if you fancy sharing it around, share an episode to a mate. That sounds really that's a really nice thing to do. Give it a review and a rating on the platform of your choice. All of that stuff. I know I go on about it, but it really really really does help build the show anyway. So back to the episode um nicola cruz. We had this chat on tuesday, the 6th of may 2025 and, yeah, this is a really good one. I love this one.

Speaker 1:

This is what happened yeah hey, thanks so much for joining me today. How's your week starting?

Speaker 2:

everything good. Yes, good so far as a few days a break that I had before heading back to europe nice.

Speaker 1:

So you split your time between keto and europe at the moment, are you?

Speaker 2:

yeah, I mean, keto is still my base whenever I'm in europe. I'm usually touring, uh, so yeah, I'm like my animals are here, so still, home is is in keto pretty much. Yeah, they need to be fed yeah, of course, and loved.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I mean because it's funny, because when we were locking in the interview a few weeks ago, I realized a little bit too late that you were actually playing at Berghain, just down the road from where I live, that night and I thought about going. But I'm I'm a little bit like I've got to that little point in my life where going out very late at night, even to see some of my favorite DJs, becomes a little bit of a stretch. Um, but, but how was it for you playing that night?

Speaker 2:

yeah, I mean especially playing at bergheim right, it demands a lot of you, a lot of energy, a lot of uh everything, yeah. So I would also consider, consider it twice, I guess. But it was, um, it was really nice. I love playing there.

Speaker 1:

Uh, yeah, it's something about the energy of the place that it's always uh, quite a, quite a nice gig do you find there are certain venues like that that you have to prepare or consider your set differently from other places?

Speaker 2:

oh for sure, yeah, especially For sure. Yeah, especially depending on the slot you play. But yeah, it really is quite an energetic gig. It demands a lot of concentration, a lot of reading the crowd, sometimes extra well, not in order to be like a perfectionist, but to really get in tune, get synced up and have a good time at the end of the day, yeah, yeah, because I think reading the crowd is quite an interesting thing, isn't it?

Speaker 1:

Because I think different DJs look out for different things. I mean, it's not always the most obvious thing. I get the impression from DJs and when I used to DJ myself that you notice, like, what, for you, are the things that you, you pick up on, like, so I think sometimes the crowd can be like a bit of a conductor yeah, certainly, um, maybe it's um, I don't know.

Speaker 2:

There's a few things that I feel like I pick up. Uh, sometimes it's certain movements from the people you know reacting to the sounds I'm playing. I like, sometimes, you know, just to focus on one certain you know person, which I call like an anchor, which is this person I look at throughout the set and, you know, just focus on this one individual and see, see, how's, how's the the, the reaction within this, this one person. You know that it's, it's kind of weird, but, uh, instead of just like focusing on the whole mass, sometimes there's, there's a connection with uh, with one, you know, and that sort of dictates, uh, when it comes, you know, to reading, I guess, movement. But also, you know, like, uh depends on the sound system and the sound system also dictates what you're able to play or not. You know, sometimes you can play like more complex stuff, but sometimes the sound system is maybe it's not the best, so you're bound to play like simpler stuff. So, yeah, I guess it's many, many things that helped in developing the crowd throughout the set.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's interesting what you're saying about focusing on one person. I used to do that myself and it's a little bit like the way I kind of equate. It is a bit like it's like if you're just going to a party, you, you, you know, even like someone's wedding.

Speaker 2:

It's like you home in on the people that you feel like a connection with and you don't always know why totally, yeah, exactly, there's a there's a certain connection through music, through something else psychoacoustics, whatever and uh, yeah, it's interesting to establish this and sometimes, you know, this can be established within I don't know, the first 20 minutes, within the first 10 minutes. Sometimes it takes even longer, you know, you you lock in around two hours, or sometimes it might never happen, you know.

Speaker 1:

So I think that's kind of like the, the goal sort of when, when you dj, you you want to like as soon as possible, get in the zone with everyone and then just have like a good time yeah, and I mean that's an interesting question because we're just on the periphery of coming up to the summer season and there's more of a emphasis on djs going and doing festival sets which are quite often shorter than the rest of the year Not always, but quite often and so there's more of a pressure I think that a lot of DJs face. And I was wondering if you do as well to get all of these elements together more quickly and and does this affect how you play itself, sort of playing in more of like a kind of a festival uh environment than, say, the rest of the year where you do have perhaps more scope to go on more of a journey over a period of time yeah, especially in festivals, right, where the sound systems tend to be big, the crowds are are usually big as well.

Speaker 2:

You know you play for 2 000, 3 000 people, so it is definitely a different kind of set you do for this sort of situations. Um, I myself I try to always like take it slow because I know summertime in Europe is very hectic, and even more so, you know, through every year. So, yeah, first of all, I try to not play quite a lot when I'm in summer in Europe. You know I try to do like a few gigs that you know, to get the most out of me to really enjoy the place, the festival, my sets not be burnt Because it's already quite saturated.

Speaker 1:

I get the impression that there's an element about pacing yourself as well. You've been in the game for, uh, quite a while now, so I imagine like the relationship you have with touring does change. You know, from younger years, where you know we're generally much more resilient when we're younger and, um, I remember like being in bands in my early 20s. You know that's the kind of like the stuff that you put yourself through. You know and I'm not even talking about like hedonism, just the sort of compromises on like looking after yourself. Like I'd sleep on people's floors, you know, sleep in a crappy van and you get older. I mean, like what kind of now, you know over a decade into like an established career? Like what changes do you feel that you've made to kind of keep yourself fresh and going when you're out touring? You know what things do you look out for?

Speaker 2:

So I think pacing out for sure has been a big component of the whole thing. You know, like trying to do less, but within the few gigs, you do get the most out of them. I think that's what keeps me going, also because I really really get super excited still whenever I play, because I have the energy, I'm well rested, I'm actually able to enjoy it. Of course, this within the DJ life, right, which means, you know, like very little sleep taking place here and there within the limits, right, like you say, like after you do this for quite a while, I think you're a bit more secured about what you do and what you want to propose, and you start asking yourself different questions as well, like why are you up there? Why do you have the chance to be up there and not someone else? And this is not only when DJing, but also when performing live, when I play, like a live act, my own music. It's a question I really like to have very present, even if I don't have the answer yet.

Speaker 2:

But, like I ask myself, you know, why are you up there? Like, what are you going to do different up there? How are you going to keep it interesting up there? Like what? What are you going to do different up there? What are? How are you going to keep it interesting up there? So that's really like a motto to, yeah, to keep it fresh every time you know. Keep it um. Yeah, to explore to, to break the rules, everything you know, and, and with time, with doing this, like through many years, I think you start losing the fear of doing that and the fear of expectations. What people expect from you. Yeah, it's. For me, it's always like expect the unexpected, to be to be honest, yeah.

Speaker 1:

I mean it's great that that process of questioning yourself I think that can sometimes be quite a terrifying thing because you're potentially unraveling something that at this moment in time is working. Has there ever been times where that idea has become kind of like a little bit existential and with dread thinking, OK, why am I doing this?

Speaker 2:

I think, always, I mean all this questioning is always for good, at least.

Speaker 2:

Of course, there's frustration when it comes to any creative field, right To composing music, to performing whatever but I always try to keep it on the positive side of things, at least with asking myself certain questions, because I think that ultimately leads to a further exploration.

Speaker 2:

For example, I think one of the reasons why I chose to speak to you today, for example, is I like chatting with someone that you know like makes me, um, ask myself some questions that I wouldn't normally do, you know, especially when chatting about music, and I don't do many music interviews, at least not nowadays, because they they became too redundant. That you know back then, when, when I did it, you know, I received the same questions over and over again, so I stopped doing them. And then, well, I was introduced to your interviews, which I was checking around and I thought like, yeah, why not? Like you know, it's nice to also, you know, get this. This is just going to make me, you know, like, ask the necessary questions again. Oh, I think that's super important, especially for I don't know musicians. Sometimes you just do stuff and it's just your channel and you let out music, but you forget to ask yourself about like why, why do you do these things, why this concept, why the sounds and um?

Speaker 1:

yeah and it works bilaterally yeah, I appreciate, really appreciate you saying that, and I think one of the things that I get out of speaking with guests is is like a kind of a feedback on that as well. That, you know, is like I feel like there's this sense that everything is constantly in flux, you know, and we're never we, we never stay still, you know, and even when we do stay still, everything else is moving. So, you know, everything's constantly moving. So I think being able to kind of observe where we're at at any given moment in time is a really, really key thing to developing an artistic career or just developing like life really, and um, I mean like looking back on things.

Speaker 1:

You know, it's 10 years since prenda el alma came out and that was kind of like a real breakthrough album and I feel like time has been really kind to it as well. And I've you've described in the past that your process is one of constant experimentation. I was wondering what that meant to you then compared to now, because your work has evolved. There's been so many different phases of your work and emphasis and changes in emphasis with the work you do, but it always seems that experimentation is very key to that. What does that mean to you, then you know, compared to now.

Speaker 2:

Probably. I feel that it's. I see it the same way. You know the sonic experimentation I did back then. It's still the same guy, the same kid does it nowadays.

Speaker 2:

Uh, when it comes to composing, uh, probably now, of course, with more, with more experience and, uh, in many things, right, not just in sculpting sound, but also also understanding the why and how and understanding all this, probably cultural context.

Speaker 2:

If I work in a piece that involves that, this meaning, for example, if I decide to include folkloric instrumentation in my compositions nowadays, folkloric instrumentation in my compositions nowadays, it's it's interesting to understand, um, where this comes from. You know where the sounds come from and, um, it's, uh, it's it's quite interesting because this, once again, like this instrumentation to, to name an example, it's uh, quite, uh, uh, historically speaking, a lot of information, right, that's why you need to approach it that way, so that in this case, right in the, in the, in, speaking of sonic experimentation nowadays, it's still, I think, I feel it's still the same approach, but with more experience, always trying, of course, to be more sincere, to, as cliche as it sounds like, to keep it real, you know, with yourself, with your composition. So, yeah, I think that's a never-ending exercise right? Yeah, you know trying to be sincere with yourself, and that's something you come to learn more with the years.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I think, with music production evolving all the time in terms of how it gets easier and easier to find sounds from any origin and anywhere in the world, you know, and you're talking about keeping it real and and there's this real sense of sort of respect for the geographical and cultural context of using the instrumentation that you do. You know, in terms of keeping it real, I mean it is, it is a little bit of a minefield, you know, like, on one hand, yes, that's that sound might be great, but what, what? What is the process of, like, I guess, assimilation for you? You know, in, I mean, maybe, like you know, there's a lot to talk about there in terms of, like different albums you've done, but maybe in terms of like prendel, alma, like Alma, you're drawing on things from cultures nearby to you. What was the process for settling on what you would use and what you wouldn't use for that album?

Speaker 2:

I think it was a mix Prender contains, uh, a lot of um sampling as well. So I, I my approach to sampling has always been sort of like, uh, well, like the I guess, like the jdl school right, like, yes, that's sort of where where it came from. So I've always liked the idea of sampling as an instrument as well, right as you would use any other synth whatever. So, as in hip-hop, does that you try to get like this irregular loop that has this nice swing to it. I sort of did the same with music that I found around me, especially from the Andes region or produced in Ecuador, and that plus, you know gathering certain musicians, musician friends from around here and you know complementing the recording and creating a new composition out of it. So, yeah, yeah, I guess that was kind of like the like the the process for for the record, sorry, I I forgot a bit of the like the question.

Speaker 1:

Specific question it was a very complex. It was a. I was yeah, it was a paul hanford at five in the afternoon trying to word something kind of question. I mean I, yeah. I mean I guess the other another element that I picked up with that album as well is there is this kind of ritualistic sort of quality to the music and that's persisted through your work. And you know, I feel like words like spirituality are very, very loaded terms. You know that people have a very immediate idea of something, you know, that's very subjective to them and all of these concepts are that's very subjective to them. And and all of these concepts are very, very subjective. But I wanted to know what that means for you, like putting like an element of the ritualistic or or perhaps like the, the, the sort of inner consciousness into your music. You know, how does that? Is that something that is definitely a present thing in your music, or is that something that's more like, if people hear it, it's there, it's not.

Speaker 2:

It's funny that you mentioned that because, um for sure, there's a lot of, um, yeah, I guess spirituality into my music and it's something that I always, uh try also to keep it present.

Speaker 2:

But, like you say, it's a it's a very loaded word, right, like spirituality could be something, like you know, as huge as I don't know, trying to achieve enlightenment or whatever, or just, um, the way you live your life, you know, which can be also very simple, your philosophy, you know it's directly connected to, to your spirituality. So sometimes when I approach my musical composition and and I try to like evoke a feeling behind it, whatever it is, you know maybe is this image I have in my mind for example, there's a track in the latest record in kinesha called telepathine, which is uh sort of like alludes this uh feeling of being in in sort of like a ceremonial vibe. You know, when you're by by a plant. You know, under the influence of a plant, be that like San Pedro, dmt, whatever there's a certain state and a feeling you know, and that's this track sort of tries to recreate that through sonics right.

Speaker 2:

So sometimes, you know, the track might feel, I don't know, maybe it has a bit more of synthesis and it doesn't directly allude to that. The track might feel, I don't know, maybe it has a bit more synthesis and it doesn't directly allude to what you would say like a spiritual instrumentation, like an ancestral chant or a flute, maybe it's just like a granular synthesis but somehow it translates to a spiritual feeling, you know, and that's why it's funny that you mentioned that way, because some of my work, I like some people describe it as spiritual, but I'm like, really Like it sounds, like I'm glad it feels like that, because it has like this 3D component of something that's really, you know, like spirit. But sometimes it can be like very, you know, atmospheric, synthetic sort of textures, you know, that translate into this spiritual.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean I would not label your music or go anywhere near the idea of like, because the bad kind of cliche of the spiritual, you know the, the, I the, the compilation albums of you know 20 Buddha bar hits type it's not, we're not talking in the context of that, or even like very obvious tropes. The way I see it it's more like a transcendentalness that kind of comes through.

Speaker 2:

How I see it is like I'm my own world. You know I build my own rules within my world in composing, in recording, in what I want to say. So when you exist within this palette of yours, this palette of sound of yours, then everything is basically allowed right, absolutely. And here in this world there might be some energy and physical feelings and sounds, but there's also this interesting, you know spiritual thing that you've built. You know throughout your world, throughout yourself, what you are.

Speaker 1:

And is that something that you build in there for yourself as much as anyone else Like? Is there a sort of a way that the music has an effect on you that you want to feel when you're making it?

Speaker 2:

I believe. So, yeah, I think it comes natural also of my, I guess, what my daily life, uh, yeah, what I I always try to be receptive. You know, to I don't know your things I'm picking, um, that's why I love, I don't know, this idea of the quantum listening right by Pauline Oliveros. Yeah, that became like quite huge, but it was quite an interesting practice from her back in the day day by day, just like trying to to pick up stuff that, um, that's not evidently there, you know, and within that you, you channel into your creations yeah, that was something I used to do before I knew what the term for it was.

Speaker 1:

I used to really enjoy walking at home at night and then there'd be somewhere in the distance you would hear a dog, you know like a train track, and you can kind of relate it to the sound field and you know where, where it's like a. I mean I guess it goes into like kind of like ideas of sort of music of chance as well, like the whole john cage thing as well. Yeah, the relationship between music and the, the, the actual external world of what actually is music. And I want to dig in a little bit into your formative years and do you remember, like, was there a point where you felt that music really came into your life?

Speaker 2:

I'd say it was always present. Um, it first came through through drumming. I, I used to drum before, uh, when, when I was a kid. But then I had a chance, you know, to get a degree in music and I also explored uh, drums through there, you know, and uh, but like I wouldn't say there was like a specific point where I said, like, hey, music, you know, for example, I feel that radio around here where I live was very important for my formative years.

Speaker 2:

Uh, sometimes it still is. You know, I, I, um, to live in quito, you need to drive around because the public public transportation system sucks and the geography is so uh irregular that you need to drive right. And when you drive, you like I, I at least, I play the radio and um, it's interesting. What do you interesting? What you still come about listening to the radio. For example, nowadays, what I've been doing is I've been playing AM frequency. Okay, you know, and it's funny because in AM frequency sometimes you go around and it's just like there's bad reception and then you just get like a nice noise set of 20 minutes, you know, moving around. So I don't know it's, you know, from those things to listening up here like the local radio station play Tecnocumbia right, which is like from around here.

Speaker 2:

So, yeah, music has been ever present. I lived in Mexico City for five years from, I think it was, 2006 to 2011. And maybe at that point I did feel like electronic music really came into me. It was very present through really nice, really good masters, teachers that until this day I held them very highly because they were able to transmit with a lot of fascination, the, you know the, the electronic music world through synthesis, through acoustics, through you know all the science that comes behind it are there any you'd like to name?

Speaker 1:

yeah, shout out to, to eduardo dominguez digit amazing yeah, and was there a point um around that area so we're kind of talking about the late noughties Was there a period around there where you felt you were moving more into being making your own music and being an artist in your own right? Was it? Was there like a kind of a clear moment, or was it more of like a process, or was it?

Speaker 2:

more of like a process. It was a clear moment. Yeah, I began by DJing, I think around 2004. And you know I liked electronic music. I enjoyed it. We had to download torrents over here, you know, to actually get informed about the music out there. And then I, I guess around 2008, I began, you know, testing out compositions and and creating my own stuff. And yeah, I think I think since then, you know, it's been a process of discovering that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, were there any like sort of like weird little periods where you were making music that you're like I don't know what's happening with this? It was sounding very different, or you know um oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:

I look back at it and like a few, a few periods of my life, a few moments where I say like well, yeah, what was that? What was I doing?

Speaker 1:

like, you know, not in the bad way, just in in like I don't know, like it was fearless.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, you know, I like that. I like that, like, uh, I didn't mind, you know, bringing up to the stage, you know, like this microphone and the right symbol and, um, I had my life act along with the right symbol which I played, and it feedbacked crazy throughout the whole set and you just didn't care, it was part of it. Definitely it's interesting. But you know what I love this like. I see all these moments, these albums, also as momentary states, momentary lapses, that, um, you know, that's who you are at the moment, that's, uh, what comes out of you at the moment and that's completely valid and, you know, allowed, and that's you also, you know yeah, and I feel that there is a.

Speaker 1:

The emphasis has changed somewhat in the last few years and I feel, um, there's more of a connection with people making albums that feel very much like maybe it's because people can make albums more, more and more at home of of making an album that just feels, or a collection of work that that is just representative of a, of a time and a place for them and I saw it on your most recent album like what was that time and place for you? You know when we're talking about like um, you know, because it feels like the music comparing over like a 10-year period. There's the, the. It feels like there's a much more of like a subtle process in terms of the sounds going on. There's a lot more of like the kind of more folkloric elements are a lot more like subtle and almost subliminal. You know where were you at when, when you were making that?

Speaker 2:

yeah, I feel so. I feel that's correct. You know it's moreliminal. I think it was also a collection of work I've been doing for the last year and a half.

Speaker 2:

Composing is always a habit for me, so I'm always composing songs that may never see the light of the day or whatever, but some go good together. Some go good together and I think sort of like the idea for this last one was, I guess the state I was in when composing this album was this idea I was telling you about being receptive, about these messages that are not evidently there. You know, like being an antenna and catching all these ideas or all these subconscious feelings. I think, yeah, nothing quite tangible, I would say it's more, I guess, crazy ideas, like I was telling you about recreating this ceremonial state sonically, you know. So, yeah, once again, I feel I stopped doing the trying to aim for the perfect album. Yeah, it's just uh, this is me right now. This is how I'm flowing.

Speaker 2:

I like this connection of tracks. I want to put them out right. Yeah, yeah, I think once, once, you sort of like um, have this idea a bit clear. It's like that the whole weight of making an album just uh, you know, it just goes away in a way, you know, and start enjoying it again even more than, uh, at the usual frustration of I have to make an album, I have to, like you say, like my, it's my second album gonna be like a breakthrough or not, like how's he gonna live to the first one?

Speaker 1:

whatever right, it's just like I don't want to play that game no, I mean, it's a very weird situation, that aspect of being an artist in terms of like we all know that, like we are most creative when we we set up a situation and we're allowed to play, um, yeah, and. But we also notice we have careers and we put expectations on ourselves, amongst other things.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1:

It seems like you have a really good grip on that, but have you ever felt like the external pressures kind of kick in?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, for sure, especially because, I don't know, sometimes your audience gets quite locked and obsessed with certain songs. They just want to hear them over and over again. So what I'm saying is, like music is so vast and I'm also a music selector so I'm in a constant digging mode, so for me to really repeat a song of mine, I like, I don't know, it doesn't make sense. Just you know, like to you know, just like I feel like feeding sugar to, to to a crowd, you know, and we all know that like sugar is not good for anyone.

Speaker 1:

So I rather keep it interesting and and diverse, and you know yeah, and I think once you get used to sugar, it's hard to have the food without the sugar as well so yeah and I think another element that is a bit of a balance is between the technical and and the kind of rawness like your sound engineering, your engineering is like so first rate.

Speaker 1:

But then there's also the kind of authenticity that kind of comes through and the imperfections like you mentioned about, like you know being very firmly in the jay diller school and I think that's like a classic example of you know an artist that's at the top of their game by having those two elements at place. But does that ever become a conflict for you? Or is that something that feels effortless, the sort of the balance between, like technical prowess or what you know technically and what you feel might be right?

Speaker 2:

yeah, yeah, yeah, I think I think I learned electronic music through sound design first of all, and at the same time I was I I went to music school, so I also was learning, you know, all about musical theory and practicing the drums and these things, right, and and when it came to make this to work in a way, I guess um, sound design always um, did it for me. You know, it was more interesting to listen to maybe a minimalism in musical composition but a more interesting texture and atmosphere within the song. You know, yeah, I think that transmits more, at least to me, or how I see electronic music, which I've always seen it as an audio exploration, because it really paints a different picture than, I guess, acoustically recorded music or traditional music, right. So I guess that's what I go for when I try to compose, always looking for that extra element of otherworldly sound.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and can you recall a moment where you really surprised yourself?

Speaker 2:

with this. It's been a few, I guess. But like, when you start, uh, doing a lot of field recordings as well and then taking that to the studio, uh it's interesting how, how you can like reprocess that and, uh, really turn it into something from another planet. For example, I was for the latest video we did for my album, for the track Miso. It was done in a glacier and I took, I had like this little microphone that you can stick into the ground, or well, not a stick, but like, actually like insert.

Speaker 1:

And I inserted this, inserted this, the microphone goes into the ground.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, because it's called a geophone, right. It's done by lum, the company that that does it l-o-m so you can actually insert it in certain surfaces. And I I it into a glacier where we were at and you started, you know, hearing all this movement of water inside the glaciers which was like quite amazing and all the cracking in the ice and that sort of stuff. And then I don't know, that is already fascinating enough, right.

Speaker 2:

And you take it back to the studio and then it's just like you know, like something you've never heard. So I think you're in constant fascination and amazement.

Speaker 1:

Amusement when, when messing with sound at these levels yeah, I read a book over the winter called a book of noises I don't know if you've come across this by casper henderson, and basically he chronicles a book, a book of noises, um, and he basically explores as many sounds in the world as he can find, like, uh, like he'll, he'll kind of explore the idea of like the sound of volcanoes or the sound of trees, or like the sound of every species of animal, and like, look into the origins of it and the cultural origins of it, as well as the sort of the scientific origins and and um the frequencies, and explores all of the kinds of sounds that we can't actually hear.

Speaker 1:

Um, and it strikes me, you know what putting a microphone into a glacier is kind of doing, that you know you're taking something that is like something that's present that we don't usually hear or we wouldn't even contemplate, and I think that's one of the real strengths that field recording can do. You know that I feel like isn't really often very explored, you know, I mean I use field recordings a lot in just a sort of uh oh, there's some street sounds and it sounds quite nice um but do you find it quite?

Speaker 1:

do you have like a list of things that you want to get done with field recordings, or is it just sort of?

Speaker 2:

ideas. I mean it's a super. I feel it's a super creative hobby or exercise. Right, the field recording thing, because it's hard to actually get a, I guess like an interesting field recording in terms of what you capture. Right, like, for example, the first things that usually you start recording when you're like new into this I don't know streams or the wind or the sea but then you actually understand that like there's much more to that right, like it could be, like I don't know, like stuff that you don't normally are able to hear, like telluric movements. Right like geo movements. It's quite interesting and I don't know it's it's endless. Right like, uh, the bending of certain metal plates or, yeah, even like, if you think it as a whole and you're in this particular place where sound just like resonates a certain way and you try to like capture that I don't know it's just endless. I usually do it.

Speaker 2:

You know I not necessarily incorporate most of the time into my work. I just document stuff I like to as I take pictures. I don't necessarily like post them or that stuff I love just like to create like an archive, let's say, and eventually look back to it and you know how sound is quite powerful and can create, like this, powerful synesthesia and take you back to many places. And yeah, I guess I have it for for that sake. But I've recorded, for example, whales, uh, it was three years ago. We went into this scuba diving trip and I brought, uh like an aquaphone right and I just dropped it on the way to the diving site and like you can actually hear this beautiful melodic chants from whales that were kilometers of distance from us. But a sound travels so fast in liquids, you know you pick them up quite well. So a lot of stuff.

Speaker 1:

And that's like a whole sound world that we don't hear. Uh, above the surface, isn't it? Um, I think this book and I might be totally wrong goes on to talk about how whales can communicate to each other through song, through over really vast distances.

Speaker 2:

Um, exactly, yeah, yeah, it's. Yeah, sometimes I'm telling you you're like, uh, you're, you're diving. I mean, where I'm at in ecuador, we have the galapagos islands quite nearby, so it's, it's a trip to actually go there and learn a lot about uh, evolution, right, which you know, darwin, uh started there like the, you see theory and um, and see all the fauna on the floor and all learn about nature in general and explore the, the seas and, and you know, get underwater and see that there's like this huge world underneath the surface and this also this huge, like sonic world. Sometimes you hear the whales and you think they are like just a few meters away, when they are actually, like you know, kilometers far. So quite interesting. And yeah, and what's the other word? You know it's, I don't know. It feels big.

Speaker 1:

Very big and I think, in a way, like you know, without wanting to sound too trite about it, that that's kind of what the magic of, I think, like music, can do, is to take stuff that is too big for like our own, you know, naked human and and put it into some kind of question or experience for people. You know, and I think what you were talking about earlier on kind of ties my interpretation of what you're talking and kind of ties in with that a little bit, and I might be wrong, but it's when you were talking about, like you know, not directly about, like you know, not directly replicating stuff, but like having being able to like capture a feeling that perhaps isn't sort of particularly articulated, it's just there. That's kind of, in a sense, what we're doing, isn't it? We're going into the big, vast, endless mass of ourselves or the world and and turning it into a piece of music yeah, capture a feeling.

Speaker 2:

I think that that sums it up basically like, uh, that's, that's kind of like the aim when, uh, yeah, I wouldn't feel recording yeah, yeah, and and just finally, I mean, what if you could go back in time to tell your younger self something?

Speaker 1:

what would that be?

Speaker 2:

probably not go to music school. You know how, uh, music school like I'm saying this in the sense of um music school, like I'm saying this in the sense of um music school along with all the information it it comes with, it also comes with a lot of biases, I feel. When you're creating, so sometimes when you I don't know you see it in the, in the keyboard and or somewhere in the studio and you're going to start a new song, your analytical mind or musical educated mind starts, you know, like putting on parameters and rules and for the music we do, the lecture, music we need, I feel we need the opposite. We need to break the rules, we need to decompose in order to compose, you know. So I'd love, I'd love to be a bit more freer of that feeling.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, although I also acknowledge it comes with a lot of a lot of good tools, yeah, yeah, but I think with myself it's more to do with age, like I think it's that thing about getting older. You, you stick to patterns sometimes and uh, yeah, it can become, you know, I think, yeah, it can become more difficult to to sort of free yourself of those patterns totally.

Speaker 2:

That's why, um, you know, sometimes, um, uh, trying to look for certain certain I call it like sort of like nature's nature doorways to help, you know, break these formulas or these connections that the brain tends to fall into repeatedly right, to fall into repeatedly right, be that, I don't know, like maybe a nice mushroom or I don't know, have like a nice LSD trip, something that really is breaking at times these permanent connections we're constantly doing, and sometimes they make us fall into repetition.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, it allows like a little kind of a circuit breaker in our wiring.

Speaker 2:

yeah, yeah, I think in like, in a nice dosage it really, really works. I don't yeah um nicola.

Speaker 1:

Thank you so so much.

Speaker 2:

That was the interview thank you very much um.

Speaker 1:

I'm glad we did it me too okay, so that was me, paul hamford, talking with nicola cruz for lost and sound podcast, and we had that conversation on tuesday, the 6th of may 2025. Thank you so much, nicola, for sharing your time and thoughts with with me there. Really enjoyed having that chat and if you, if you haven't checked out his stuff already, yep, the usual places you can go and check out apple spotify, all of that. I'll put a hyperlink, as always, in the podcast description. And also, if you haven't already, please do consider giving the show a rating and a review on the platform of your choice. It all really, really, really helps. I'm thinking about maybe doing some kind of competition soon for whoever can leave the funniest review. I don't know, I haven't thought of it yet, but I'll probably give away a jar of olives or something like that.

Speaker 1:

If you like what I do and you want to check out more of what I do, you can listen to my BBC Radio documentary. It's called the man who smuggled punk rock across the Berlin wall by heading on over to the BBC sounds app or on the BBC World Service home page and don't want to say too much at the moment, but there's another BBC thing in the works I can't wait to share with you, which will be later in the year, but I'm spending a lot of time me and my partner is spending a lot of time working on that at the moment, and my book coming to berlin is still available in independent bookshops all good bookshops or via the publisher's website, velocity press. The music that you hear at the beginning and the end of every episode of lost in sound is by my good pal, tom giddens always a hyperlink in the podcast description. Go and check out his other stuff. It's really fucking ace.

Speaker 1:

And audio technica. Thanks so much audio technica for sponsoring the show. They're the global but family-run company. They make headphones, turntables, cartridges, microphones. They make studio quality yet affordable products. They make stuff that I've always used, even back when I was like a young nipper making electronic music using the headphones and microphones, and ever since then really. So wherever you are in the world, head on over to AudioTechnicacom to check out all of their range of stuff. So I think that's it really. I hope, whatever you're doing, you're having a really nice day today and I look forward to chatting with you again soon. Thank you.