Lost And Sound

I. JORDAN

• Paul Hanford • Episode 188

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Just as everyone else is winding down for the seasonal break, Lost and Sound returns after my project sabbatical with one of UK club culture’s most vital voices: I. JORDAN.

We trace a line from Doncaster fairgrounds and bassline bus journeys to festival stages — and to the 2024 debut album I Am Jordan, which places community, class, and queer belonging at the centre of contemporary dance music.

It’s a fast-moving conversation about sound, craft, and care. We talk about why tempo is a feeling rather than a rule, how working at 132–136 BPM can sharpen intent, and what happens when a seven-minute club tool becomes a three-minute vocal track that completely shifts how your body responds.

We get into the granular details too: the feedback loop between club and studio, testing dubs on big systems, and the patient editing that turns a drop into a collective release on the dancefloor.

Class and culture cut through everything. We discuss reclaiming the much-maligned donk on Ninja Tune as a deliberate act — honouring northern working-class roots while shaping a scene that gives trans artists agency, visibility, and joy. We also talk about why some crowds are easier to guide than others, what truly separates underground from mainstream energy, and how health, sobriety, and touring habits are central to building a sustainable life in music.


I.JORDAN on Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/i.jordan/?hl=en

I. JORDAN on Bandcamp:

https://i-jordan.bandcamp.com/

If you enjoy Lost and Sound and want to help keep it thriving, the best way to support is simple: subscribe, leave a rating, and write a quick review on your favourite podcast platform. It really helps others find the show. You can do that here on Apple Podcasts or wherever you like to listen.

Huge thanks to Audio-Technica – makers of beautifully engineered audio gear and sponsors of Lost and Sound. Check them out here: Audio-Technica

Big news time: If you’re wondering where LoI made a radio documentary with my partner Rosalie Delaney for BBC Radio 3. It’s called Wolf Biermann: The German Bob Bylan exiled by the GDR and it’s on the radio on December 28th at 19:15 UK time: 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m002npsf

My book Coming To Berlin is a journey through the city’s creative underground, and is available via Velocity Press.

You can also follow me on Instagram at @paulhanford for behind-the-scenes bits, guest updates, and whatever else is bubbling up.

Paul :

Euphoria, community, class, donk, mainstream, underground. These are just some of the things that I discuss with one of the defining voices right now in UK dance culture, I. JORDAN. Hello, welcome back to Lost and Sound, the show that goes deep with artists shaping music and culture from the underground up. It's great to be back, but before we get going, Lost and Sound is sponsored by Audio Technica. For over 60 years, this family-run company has been making the kind of gear that helps artists, DJs, and listeners alike really hear the detail. Headphones, microphones, turntables, cartridges, studio quality, beautifully engineered and designed and built on the belief that great sound should be for everyone. So wherever you are in the world, head on over to Audiotechnica.com to check out all of their range of stuff. Okay, let's do the show, shall we? Um, so it's great to be back. Regular listeners, you'll be very familiar with like this little bit I do at the talking, talking a little bit at the beginning of the show, hearing a little bit of Berlin in the background, but something is very different today. Um you're not hearing Berlin in the background, you're hearing Melbourne. So, yes, um, God, I've been away for two months and what on earth is going on? Am I am I no longer a Berlin podcaster? Well, I don't really don't think I ever define myself like whatever. I'm going on of a bit of a waffle, as you can imagine, because I've had quite a lot of caffeine. But I am in Melbourne. I am in Collingwood in Melbourne, which I'm gonna be in for the next few weeks. Um I'm with my partner um who is from Australia. And so yeah, I'm just having a fantastic time and it's been away for a while, been on a sapatical. I'm gonna talk to you a little bit about that in a minute and what happened and stuff, but it's just great to be back, and it's it's a bit of a strange time of year as well. Like this is coming out. If you're listening to this on the day it comes out, it's the 23rd of December, which is a time where I think most people doing podcasts have kind of packed up and wound down for a while. But because I I have been off air for a few months, I was just busting to get back. So Lost and Sound is going to be running through the seasonal period on a weekly basis. But yes, hello, welcome to episode 188 of Lost and Sound. I'm Paul Hamford. I'm your host, an author, broadcaster, and a lecturer. And each week, well, back again each week, I have conversations with artists who work outside the box about music, creativity, and about how they're navigating life through their art. So I had an extended sabbatical. It wasn't entirely planned, but I've been working on a project with my partner for the BBC, and it just became very apparent about two months ago that to get what we had to get done, there was just no way to fit in during the podcast as well. And I absolutely adore doing this. I absolutely adore speaking to you and speaking to the guests and sort of communicating these ideas about like music and creativity, but something had to give for a couple of months. Um but yeah, we got the project done, and um I'm really excited about it basically. Uh so me and my partner, Rosalie Delaney, uh produced a documentary for BBC Radio 3's Sunday feature, and it's been a real labour of love. It's on Radio 3 on December the 28th at 7.15 UK time, and it's called Wolf Beerman, the German Bob Dylan, exiled by the GDR. And in a way, if you're not familiar with the artist Wolf Beerman, and I wasn't up until a few years ago, um, the title sort of tells you a lot. I think I'm gonna sort of talk a little bit more about it next week. Um, there are some issues around it about like how you can hear it outside of the UK. I realise like so many of you listening aren't UK-based, although some of quite a lot of you are as well. Um, and that's something that like we're trying to resolve at the moment. But if you are in the UK or anywhere in the world and you want to listen at the time, it's on uh 7.15 pm UK time on the 28th of December. It's a story about a dissident folk musician in the 60s in East Berlin who was kind of placed under a sort of house arrest. It was like a performance ban and and it's a very interesting story. Uh, we put a lot of love into it, and so yeah, that's I was off air for a couple of months with that. Um, I'll be talking a bit more about that um in the coming weeks. But yeah, it's great to be back. As I mentioned before the title music, I'm speaking to you from Melbourne in Australia. This is it's it's lovely here. It's summer. I'm I mean, I'm a pasty northern European and I'm used to Christmas time being cold and being in a jacket. But I mean it's a bit windy today, but it was 30 fucking eight degrees yesterday. And yeah, I'm just loving it. Based in the the sort of uh districts of Fitzroy and Collingwood in Melbourne, which reminds me of like my time in East London, I guess, in about 2014, 2015, that kind of thing, lots of warehouse cafes, and I'm only just discovering it, but I also sort of find like there's something just really lovely about the people here, and I know that sort of feels like a really sort of glib generalization, but just the friendliness, like going and buying a coffee and and like the person having a real chat with you, you know, wanting being really helpful and wanting to actually know a little bit about you and like smiles and thank yous and pleases and stuff like that. It just feels really nice. But I'm just settling in. I hope whatever you're doing, you're having a really fantastic one. And on the show today, uh, you're gonna hear a conversation I had back in the summer. Uh, this was gonna come out initially a while ago, but the sabbatical happened, and it's with iJordan. I'm I've been after speaking to iJordan for so long. So when this happened, I was so excited, and they were so lovely to chat with. Um, I. JORDAN, right now, I think is really one of the defining voices in UK dance music and and probably global dance music. The Don caster born, London-based DJ and producer, whose work over the last few years fuses euphoria, like the euphoric house and techno with like the raw energy of northern rave culture, and they absorb in elements of like bassine, donk, trance, hardcore. Yeah, we really do go into a bit of a donk conversation here. And that's if that's a style you're not too familiar with, I'm sure many of you it will be. Jordan's got like a really, really interesting perspective on this once very mocked trend, and about like how I guess it it's been, they've reclaimed it or recontextualized it, reappreciated it. Um, they explain it better than me. But anyway, um, over the last few years, I. JORDAN has built like a really solid rep playing clubs and festivals around the world, tours and support slots with artists like Fred Again and Flume, remixes for Romy, Fever Rey, Eliza Rose, and even the Pet Shop Boys. Um, their debut album, I Am Jordan, released on Ninja Tune in 2024, I think is a really defining moment in the last few years of electronic music culture. It was not only is it just like an absolute great record, it was made entirely with trans artists deeply rooted in northern working class dance traditions, and it went on to be named one of BBC Six Music's albums of the year. I feel like this sort of element of community that feeds into iJordan's work is something that is really, really, really interesting and really important, and I love the way they talk about it in the conversation you're gonna hear. We had this conversation on August the 21st, 2025. And yep, and then so it was gonna come out a while ago, but then I went into hibernation mode doing the project. But here it is, just in time for Christmas. So just a little bit of the housekeeping. If you haven't already, please give the show a subscribe. If you're feeling really generous, and it is Christmas time, and I do love you. Remember that please give the show a rating and a review on the platform of your choice. It really, really, really, really does help. So, yes, um, this is me, Paul Hanford, talking with I. JORDAN for the Lost and Sound podcast.

I. JORDAN:

Jordan, how will you do it? I'm very well. I I feel good. I just finished my EP. So that is in the process of being mastered, and I've got a really good gig on Sunday that I'm looking forward to, and it's summer, so I feel like you know, things just feel good. How are you?

Paul :

I'm good too, actually. I'm I'm really good too. I think summer does change things. I think as a DJ as well, like do you feel like you bring a different energy to things in the summer, or does like summer bring a different energy to what you do?

I. JORDAN:

I think I think both. Yeah, I think I I very much I just love to play happy, feel good things anyway. But there's something about the energy of summer that it just feels it feels nicer to do that. And I think I play more outside gigs in the summer, so I think that kind of changes things as well. I'm not playing a sort of like hard and heavy techno in the summer. Give your mate a hug, you know, that sort of stuff.

Paul :

I mean, because I feel like um particularly reflected through I am Jordan, but just all through your work, it does seem like you do really play very loose with styles, but everything sounds like it comes from you, whether it's like you know, like really integrating like samples, like almost like a little bit of French touch every now and then to like more like regional UK underground styles, you know. I mean, do you feel like that's something that you've always been kind of conscious of with your work too? Or is it is it more like a natural thing for you? It's just like one of the things.

I. JORDAN:

Um yeah, it's never been I would like it's definitely more of a natural thing. It's not something that I've done strategically, it's more just like I'm an excitable puppy with music, and I'm like, oh, a little bit of that. Oh, we can maybe do that next. And I think that like all of the different genres that I've sort of dipped my toes into since I've started producing, is me just trying to find my footing as an artist and try and like try new things as an artist and try and grow. I've never really been into just one genre. Like I don't I don't know how to pin my music down. I think that's why it really it's really nice to hear that you can hear a synergy between my music even though there's difference in genre, because I feel like I'm trying to make a feeling rather than trying to make a oh I'm gonna make a double step tune and then I'm gonna make a drum bass tune. It just doesn't I just don't think it works for anybody apart from those that are sort of observing it, maybe. I don't know. Like I So um Code 9 said something really interesting online the other day about like why do people talk about music as if it's a tempo because like in 140 dubstep can sound so much slower than a one, two, five house track, given the energy and like I mean I know I know that like you know there's a really importance in like discussing drama and I love dramas, but I think there's something to be said about an artist's relationship with music in general rather than just sort of like thinking about it in very specific boxes.

Paul :

Yeah, I think sometimes we tend to view artists as operating within a genre rather than the fact that artists are well inherently music fans and have had like a variety of experiences that have led to each production, each experience they they have. And so, you know, over the course of a life this is gonna obviously change, and you know, enthusiasm also brings different things in.

I. JORDAN:

Yeah.

Paul :

Do you think you could ever be like, do you ever if someone said to you and it felt like the right thing, do you think you could ever like commit to doing like something that was just like 140 BKM all the way through one style, or is that no interest?

I. JORDAN:

Um, well, my new EP is five tracks that don't go any faster than one three six, I believe. Which is the first time in my music career that I've done this, and it's been quite nice to be like, okay, right, I'm gonna really hone in. I'm gonna focus on like a specific theme and and a specific energy. Um, and they're all I would say house tracks. So um, yeah, maybe. I mean, but I think next time I do like a long-form project, like an album, I can't imagine it'll just be 12 tracks of house music. I think that'll be too boring for me. I don't know how many EPs I've had out now, but there's been like what six years or so of like me sort of experimenting and putt loads of different bits out, and now it's quite fun to be like, right, I'm gonna like do like quite focused projects. So like there's like an EP with Ninja that's coming out, but it's like quite housey, and then I have another release coming out next year that's just a single that's like back into sort of like faster dance music. So I'm trying to figure out, yeah, like where I sit with the certain labels and like yeah, the the people that I'm associated with, and yeah, just trying to figure all that sort of stuff out, really. I think I'm trying to figure it all like I think I am trying to yeah, figure out my place in the scene and like where best my music is fitted to be released as well. So I've been like Ninja for like five years, and it feels like where Ninja and I work really well together are the sort of like the housey things and like Ninja have been amazing on this CP and they're amazing with my album as well, but I think like yeah, and then thinking like maybe the faster stuff, maybe that would sit somewhere else, but I don't know.

Paul :

Yeah, yeah. I mean, having played the recent single An Angel Girl Reborn, that felt to me like that had like a very joyous uh quality to it. You know, obviously it's a collaboration as well, Tom Rasmussen. Yeah, could you tell me a little bit about how that came about?

I. JORDAN:

Yeah, um, Tom and I had sort of been like musical friends. I met them two and a bit years ago when they were supporting a Romy gig that I also supported, and then and then they asked me to do a remix on their album Livewire. They did a remix album, and and then we just sort of became friends, and then we were like, we should we should actually do some like more proper like not just remix stuff together, but like I should get in the studio and write some write some music together. So they came in and then I sent them I wrote an angel instrumental back in September last year, and an angel instrumental is going on the EP. But we were thinking like because the instrumental is seven minutes long, but the project with Tom is like a three-minute, very, very different sort of energy. Like the an angel instrumental to me is like it like I've I purposely left it seven minutes, I didn't drop it down because I was like, I really want people to like sit with this and feel the in the entire lift up and then the build down and like whereas an angel with Tom is like you know, it gets into the chorus in the first 30 seconds, it's a very different sort of energy. And they were amazing in in like sort of helping me with the structure of the track because I I'm not a pop artist and I'm not um I'm not I don't really work with singer song like this that often. So like having them help me be like, okay, this is the intro, this is the bridge, this is a chorus, this is a verse, like that's all very new to me. So that was a really fun thing to learn and like just to help me grow as an artist as well. And then the B side go rebond just sort of happened by accident. Like I already had a demo open and they were like, What's this? And I just played it to them, and then they just literally just did one draft of singing Comeback Baby, and then we just recorded it, and then that was that. It was just like the easiest, most like I don't know, just didn't feel that like rehearsed. It was just all very natural, organic. Um, yeah, it was really cool.

Paul :

Yeah, I mean a bit of what you said though reminds me of what you mentioned earlier on about like uh what code nine was saying about like different tempos. Like, you know, you have like one version that's instrumental, you need to set the minutes of it, but you bring vocals in, and although the the music is the same, the the vocal element really, really does change like the emphasis and the feel and even like your how you probably dance to it as well.

I. JORDAN:

Yeah, absolutely. Like I play I play the instrumental in clubs, and I feel like I listen to an angel more in my house. It's like it's a complete it has a different energy to it, and they both kind of exist in in like in separate worlds to me. Um, which is why I've included the instrumental on the EP. Because I feel like it's fine like it has a home rather than like an instrumental as a side thought, like it it is like a whole thing in itself.

Paul :

Yeah, I mean I guess as well, it's like it's been a bit a little bit over a year since I am Jordan came. And there's been a little bit of like a repackage of it, like a little bit of the bundled thing on it recently. I mean, that has that given you time to reflect on the year since it's come out, you know, and how do you reflect back on it?

I. JORDAN:

Yeah, I feel like I'm I mean, I feel like I'm honestly constantly always reflecting on who I am and myself. And I think that because I change so much, that often has something to do with it. Like my transition is like a being being, and that means that I'm constantly sort of like looking back and and I've got like a whole other perspective on things. Um, but I think with the album in particular, I'm I I feel like it really helped me get to the point that I'm at now, like it really served a purpose for me as an artist, and like it felt like I was trying to prove myself with the album, which is also why it's called I am Jordan, was just like can you just listen to me? Like not not not listeners in like listen to the music, but as in like this is who I am, and like I am multi-drama, I I love I love lots of different styles, and like the album was like this is all the different parts of me that's influenced me over my life that I feel like are important to have out in an album, and I think that like enable me to get to the stage that I'm at now in terms of like where I'm at with my writing. I feel like I've grown quite a lot as a producer since the album, even and I think the album helped me get to that stage of like okay, I need what's next. And speaking of another friend of mine, Anna Luno, who's a great producer. We both had albums out last year, and we we had like a we sat down in Sydney last year and had like an album debrief together, and we were like, How did it feel? And like she said to me that like she felt that she could close that chapter, and then that enabled her to move on to the next thing. And I was like, I actually never really thought about it from that perspective before. It helped me understand that that's kind of where I was at as Well, and like give myself the permission to try new things as an artist rather than thinking it's constantly about like appeasing and like what other people want of me.

Paul :

Yeah, yeah. I feel um it is this sort of feeling of like when I wrote my book, I experienced this sort of sense of like once it had come out, other people start having an experience with it, and there's nothing I can do to it. You know, it's like it's you've you've let the kids go off to university or go on their gap year or whatever, and they're not coming home, they're gonna send you some postcards sometimes. But um yeah, I mean, do you do you look back? How do you look back on it as sort of you know, it's really wonderful to hear you talk about like the process sort of going through it, but like are you fond of it? Do you still do you listen to it? Do you does it still give you like that kind of sense of like when you were going? I love the way you described, but it kind of helped you, you know. How how does it how does it reflect?

I. JORDAN:

Yeah, I um I don't really listen to it that much anymore, but I'm really fond of it. Like I have the album, uh I have the vinyl uh on display in my living room, like it's like pride of place. So I'm pretty proud of it. I mean, yeah, I I I say actually I put a story up the other day because I listened to I shared an interview, and there was like I was talking about the album in the interview, and I also and I and I shared one of the tracks from the album on the story that I shared the interview on, and I it was just it sounded so much faster than what I remember making it as. Um I think I like obviously like I said to you before, I'm like making music up between 132 and 136 at the minute. So so naturally like my perception of speed has changed, and then I'm just like really interested in how like perspective and context changes your perception of speed in sound. And I just found that really fascinating. So like I think if I and I listen back to like close to you and round and round tracks that I play out, and specifically tracks that I'm made to play in clubs, because I'm playing slow while I'm slowing down my own music. Whereas I never used to do that, I used to speed up my own music. Um, yeah, I just found I'm finding that quite fascinating and like the things that you sort of like learn and and how things sound different as time goes on, and just how subjective listening and enjoying music is and how context changes you know your enjoyment of it.

Paul :

Yeah, I think I think in dance culture that there is that element that like because the the the scenes always changing and like new elements to sort of add in. I I wonder if that's perhaps more impactful for your experiences than say if you were like, I don't know, the red hot chili peppers, and you know, it's gonna it's gonna kind of be the same decade in, decade out, you know, but a long time.

I. JORDAN:

No, yeah, not wanting to like hate on them, but uh I used to be obsessed with them when I was younger. I used to play I used to play all the music on guitar. I was like really into like the by the way album, Californication, but then everything else just sounded exactly the same.

Paul :

So yeah, I always described it as they had two types of songs, the sit-down songs and the stand-up songs. And they take they take their shirts up for the stand-up songs and put them for the sit-down ones.

I. JORDAN:

That's exactly what happens. If you've seen them live, which I have four times, exactly the same happens.

Paul :

That is amazing. Um, I wanted to sort of dig a bit, like on that note, dig a bit into your past if that's all right. Like, so yeah, you grew you grew up in Doncaster. I did, yes.

I. JORDAN:

What was your kind of entry point into music like? Um, so my mum was really into music, and my mum was really into like a rock, I guess. So my early experiences of music is like Prince and David Bowie and Phil Collins, um, and Simply Red were like, and then the Arithmix, Lud Zeppelin, she's had all those on record. So I sort of grew up listening to all of those. And then also just like growing up in working class Doncaster, my exposure to electronic music just happened from a really young age. Um, like I've loved dance music as long as I can remember, like hearing that on the radio, like Radio One when the Essential Mix used to come out really late at night, and I was like obsessed with it. And then like living just really, really close to Sheffield, like on the back of a bus at school, like everyone would be playing bass line edits, and I heard those dunk all the time because I used to go to like fairgrounds all the time. And I think, yeah, listen to like trance. I think my my I think between like seven and thirteen was when I got really into dance music, and I like us to get like miniature sound trance compilations. Trance is my favorite when I was a kid, and I still is, I'm still really really into trance.

Paul :

Well, you can hear it on I Am Jordan, you know, you can hear the chance elements and also like the donk as well. There's bits of donk that come on up in that. Like, I mean, in the last couple of years, there's been like quite a kind of cultural reappraisal of donk, and I'm always wary of terms like cultural reappraisal because it sounds very guardian, you know. And um, but I I was wondering what you think about that kind of coming from the environment where you experienced like donk in its natural, you know, natural evolution. How do you relate to that now, you know, and also bringing in elements like that on some of your work?

I. JORDAN:

Well, it was really important for me to include a donk track on my album because Ninja Tune have never released a donk track. Right. And there's something very, you know, I don't know. Like donk is like people don't take it seriously. People like it's tongue-in-cheek, which it is, but like there's also like beauty in that. And I think that's like a northern working classing of like, you know, very much like an elitist sort of like looking down chin-strokey vibe on like genres like that, that like are a bit more tongue-in-cheek and a bit more like throwaway, but like that's kind of the value in it itself. Oh, not saying that ninja are like that, but you know, ninja are known for quite like eclectic, headsy, you know, historically headsy sort of like music. So it was really important for me. Like, I actually want to make a statement by saying I'm making a donk track. And not only am I making a donk track track, but I'm like it's a collaborative donk track with another working class trans artist from the north. So those that just felt like really important for me. And and also, like, I guess there's a a lot of that sort of sound, there's a reclamation to it in in like me and Talia making that track was like donk historically is northern bro culture, you know, which is you know, probably historically quite like racist, sexist, transphobic. So there's like an element of like the reclamation of that sound as well coming from two trans working class like artists.

Paul :

Yeah, I mean I I heard that um in another interview you mentioned that you prioritize working with working class artists. Um can you tell me a little bit about why why that is?

I. JORDAN:

I think there's just like a commonality, isn't there? Yeah. Um I think there's a kinship that I find working with artists that have come from similar backgrounds to me. Like Tom's from a really similar background. When we worked with an angel, like when me and them were in the studio together, we were just like, oh my god, we have all the eyes that really similar experiences about like really true and his artists. And like it makes them music for both of me and whoever I'm collaborating with feel more um, I don't know. Just there's just something about it. I can I can connect with others a bit more. And also I couldn't know, there's just I didn't got, I mean, I'm I'm middle class now. I've definitely moved up the social ladder. So I I have no no problem in working with I've worked with extremely rich people as well. I made a track with Fred again. I didn't know how rich he was when I made the track. Yeah. It's not something I'm totally against. It's just like I find in the same way I work with queer artists, you know, like it there's a king that and it and there's sort of an unwritten energy that we both we're both meeting at a certain point rather than having to be like, okay, you know, I've not had mask or like overly explaining, you just sort of understand and there's no elitism in the room. Like I produce majority on my laptop, even though I've got equipment, but like there's all those sort of little elements to it that like working class people just get.

Paul :

There has been a lot of debate recently about the lack of access for working class people in the arts um in Britain. And I I was wondering if that was when the way you're describing it sounds very natural, and I totally get like it's about working with people that are like that you can click with and that you can kind of hear each other, you know. Um, but is there also an element of I guess like I guess quota balancing or or like making sure that there are spaces, like someone with a space giving a space?

I. JORDAN:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think I mean the similar in a similar way, the the reason why for my album I water work of all trans creatives, not just musicians, but like every single person involved in the creative was trans. And that was because I'm like, I've got a platform like with Ninja, like what can I do to bring others along with me on this? And I'm like, yeah, I like to think that if I if I do have a platform, I I can use it in those ways. And it's absolutely about that with the working class side of things too.

Paul :

Yeah, and with I I am Georgian, because uh a part of that uh you mentioned was about the themes of putting the themes in of going through the transition over this time, yeah. Um, did you feel? I mean, I guess like, you know, and it again it's something that I do apologize, like removed from my own personal experience. So I I apologize about questions that might come across as um naive. But um but how did you did you feel that there were points where you felt like you just wanted to kind of hide back from talking about this? Or is it was it very much integrated into like I have to talk about this, I have to put this energy into the work.

I. JORDAN:

Yeah, I wanted to talk about it last year. I think um now the album's out. I'm less I don't want it to be front and center of my art anymore. Like the album was like, this is like I started testosterone when I started writing the album, and there's like there's things in the album that are connected to my transition, the thing, and like, but like most of the music was written around when I started to feel the effects of it. So that's when all this sort of like working with all trans artists on it was like connected to it. And I think now that it's out, I'm just like I'm I'm not making my transness in relation to my music anymore. Like um I I sort of said what I needed to say about it with the trans stuff, and now um now I'm just sort of like enjoying this and my life, and it not like so like so. The album was called I Am Jordan because so many people kept on dead naming me that I needed to reframe and rebrand my artist name so people see I Jordan, I am Jordan. And it was like, like I said, I was trying to prove myself, I'm constantly shouting into this void of people that weren't seeing me and weren't listening to me. And now I feel like I finally got to the stage where maybe people are listening to me and like it served its purpose, and I'm like, I'm happy with where that period of my life, you know. I just I don't know, it feels like it's all very connected to about like it's kind of in the past from it since.

Paul :

Right, okay, yeah. Uh yeah, is is I think another another really interesting one, a completely different sort of angle, uh like going back to the journey of your life. So you studied philosophy, right? I did, yes. Yeah. Did that have an impact at all on in terms of like your creativity? Because I mean, I love a bit of philosophy. Um, I tend to get uh I tend to get a bit lost. I I've went through that kind of phase of being a teenager, and I think reading Sartre and Camus I thought would be impressive to people like I found attractive. Um, but I also through doing that, I did actually connect.

I. JORDAN:

Yeah. I mean, I feel like it's probably helped me in it's so hard to say how it has helped me because it is literally shaped my brain. Like, I don't know what my brain will be like without having so much philosophy and critical thinking. Like it helps me look at, I don't know, like I've always sort of questioned things and like I've always tried to understand myself in relation to other people, myself in relation to society. And uh so yeah, like from a really young age, like I got introduced to Karl Marx when I was like 14, and then that's what I got into like sociology and then philosophy, and then before I was doing music full-time, I was like working in inclusion, so like I feel like they've all sort of connected is me trying to understand people's place in the world and how like power dynamics work and all that sort of stuff.

Paul :

Yeah.

I. JORDAN:

I'm so I'm sure it does help my creativity. I used to do a themed radio show about 10 years ago, and each show was a different theme, philosophical theme. So there was like the sound of colour, the sound of the universe, like the sound of the heart, um, the sound, and then we like and then each show I did like a deep dive on a blog, like uh found like loads of cool like sound of science stuff and like philosophy of sound and shit, and just like wrote it all out. That was that was quite cool. I don't know if I I think about it too much these days, but I think probably like it's hard, isn't it? Like I I yeah, I did I don't I went to Uni like 14, 15, 16 years ago. I don't even know how long ago now. So I'm sure it's influenced me in in some shape or form, but it's hard to detach my life experiences with you know not having them.

Paul :

Yeah, yeah, I I get that. I think um um they it becomes like an ingredient, it becomes part of like who we are, doesn't it? It's not it's not like you're it's not like sort of like you train to be a doctor and you're having to apply those in a very in front of you way every day. It's just you know, like how you you know, it kind of goes into how you frame things and how you you see things, I guess.

I. JORDAN:

Absolutely, yeah. Um I'm a deep thinker, I feel things deeply, I think not things deeply. That's probably the reason why I did philosophy in the first place.

Paul :

Yeah, so you you were a philosopher before you do the philosophy, really. Yeah, uh it was like a chicken or egg situation.

I. JORDAN:

Yeah, yeah, probably.

Paul :

Um, and I think like you know, and you you were a promoter and a DJ for many years before you became a producer. What was it that led up led to you um I'm or at least in like actually releasing music as a producer, you know? I mean, what was it that led to this this crossover or this move into production?

I. JORDAN:

Um, it was something that I'd always wanted to do. I just didn't really have the time or capacity or confidence to do it. Um I think I came from a world that was quite like I came from a drum-bass world, and all the drum-bass producers are like, you need to have basically a master's in music to be able to understand how to make it. And I think that just really put me off.

unknown:

Yeah.

I. JORDAN:

I was working full-time and then yeah, I just never really had the time to like really to really dive into it. But then once I did dive into it, I was like, it sort of changed my life really. I mean, obviously it's changed my life because it's got me to where I am now, but like now I can't imagine not making music. Like it's such an outlet for me. It's such a if I if I go a month without making a track or working on Ableton, like I really feel the difference in my body and my mental health. So I really can't imagine. Yeah, I mean, I suppose my own my creative outlet was like DJing then. Um and I still get a similar sort of feeling when I DJ, but like producing music is like real, it feels like part of me coming out.

Paul :

Um what would you say was the biggest differences for you between DJing and and producing in terms of like the kind of energy and and the sort of abilities he put into it?

I. JORDAN:

Good question. I don't know. Well, I feel like I put more of my emotion into making music. Then DJing is more cathartic like after release. Like if I've had like a stressful week and I do a DJ set, it feels like, oh, that really helped me. Um but then if I'm making music and I'm really stressed, I'm like, this is where the stress is going. I don't know, maybe it's quite similar. I don't know. I um I feel like I can put more more of me, I can put yeah, more of me into a song than I and I can put more than I can do DJ sets.

Paul :

Yeah, yeah. Um I think DJ sets are kind of quite often when I speak to uh people about this and from my own experiences, I feel like I can get a lot when I used to make music, I could get lost in in making a piece of music. And you know, I I think once I even edited a song out of existence, and um, but when um but when with uh with DJ, there's this sort of sense that you're like active, your bear is in real time and then it's it's gone, you know.

I. JORDAN:

Um I think also like I make music alone, but like DJing is more about the the crowd and the energy I get with people, so there's a different relational element, I think, there as well. Like but the production's extremely introspective and like a piece of me. And then the DJing is where I'm like, this is a piece of me, but the crowd are like, oh yeah, and then we have this like thing, you know?

Paul :

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then she feed that sometimes back into the production side, like like experiences that you had.

I. JORDAN:

Yeah, like when I'm making club music, I will always test it out, and um there's a huge back and forth between playing it in the club, getting the club reaction, listening to it on speakers, and then going back home and like finessing it for sure. Actually, yeah, this this EP is like the first time that I've not really done that because it is quite it's very song, song heavy, lots of vocals. Um, the only track I've played in the club, there's only two tracks that I've played in the club.

Paul :

Right. And can you see that sort of becoming more of a thing as you develop, like kind of uh um maybe even like potentially like leaving like the club entirely at some point?

I. JORDAN:

I don't know. I don't think I could. I feel like I'm kind of kind of connected to a yeah, it's always I have left the club. My my earlier productions were all ambient music. So and I have there are tracks on the album that aren't club tracks, and yeah, I do I do make things not for the club sometimes.

Paul :

Yeah. And I feel like your music, one of the things I really love about it is the is like, I mean, there's an honesty in terms of like genre, you know, uh, like we're talking about earlier on, um, with like certain UK underground sounds, there is this sort of perception that I think particularly, you know, in in more like highbrow circles, the underground is more of like a kind of uh, you know, I mean, like, say like for example, being on Ninja Gene, you know, that there's a sort of like that the headsy sort of side of it. Um, but so many of like underground styles that are very headsy and like perhaps written about in a in like the wire do have roots in more of a working class or more like fun environment, you know. Um and I think like what your work does uh to me is it sort of really captures the balance between these different things, between like the underground sort of headsy credibility and and just like kind of fun times, you know, um, which I guess you could even associate more with like mainstream culture. Like, I mean, how how how do you feel like I mean, I feel like I don't know, we lived much less of a monoculture than we used to, but like how do you feel like what what do you what do you does that um the underground mean? Does it still have carry any weight? You know, is it such a broad concept? But what does it sort of imply to you?

I. JORDAN:

Um yeah, the the underground absolutely exists, I think. I think you can see it even more so in electronic music now that so much electronic music is not underground anymore. You can see the differences, and I can feel the differences in the crowd. When I play the more mainstream parties, not that I do it very often, but I will play mainstream gigs. Like the crowd are completely different. really hard to work with. Um and I think they're kind of like particularly right now after like big drop after big drop after big drop you play more underground parties and there's more of a varied taste. You can take people on more of a journey. I think that the the I'm very much a part of the queer scene in London and like that's very much still underground, you know I think that like yeah whilst Well I'd say music has like 100% become mainstream and it's like you know all of the charts and stuff it's like there's still a different energy to the more underground side of things.

Paul :

Yeah I think sometimes it could be the same music but it's where it's played and it's how it's experienced that that can kind of but so it's not always about the music.

I. JORDAN:

Yeah that's a really good point. Yeah.

Paul :

And and I think because I think also like a there are elements of like mainstream culture but of the bleed into underground culture as well you know then I I mean like which I can also hear in your music.

I. JORDAN:

That's cool. Thank you. I quite like I quite like having like I feel like I'd like to exist in both worlds. I feel like I've some of the music I've made does exist in both worlds. Some of it does exist purely in the underground and some of it kind of just exists in the mainstream. Yeah.

Paul :

Yeah yeah definitely I feel like and I feel like there's something really honest about that because I feel sometimes to sort of like pitch a tense and say I am underground or something requires like I don't know a kind of a form of second guessing I guess in a way you know you have to sort of like there there are like boundaries that you won't cross which I don't necessarily know if it's always compatible with like just exploring being an artist.

I. JORDAN:

Yeah I agree with that. I think that like working with Tom and working with some of the vocalists that I've worked with on the new EP is definitely veering into pop world which is very new for me but like that that I I've done that on purpose. Like one of the artists Ashwarrier who's a vocalist for my next single she was saying she wanted to work more in the dance world and explore more of that and I was saying to her I don't know anything about pop world and that's her bag and we both learn from each other and like like you said that's just how we grow as artists. It's not I haven't thought for one minute oh this is me going into the mainstream it's just like no this this is a new skill that I'm trying to learn as an artist and it's like made me grow and like learning how to work with vocals and learning how to work with song structure in different ways that's just going to be beneficial to me.

Paul :

Yeah yeah totally totally yeah I mean and I mean like and also like I feel like outside of it's just sort of like these are a few questions that's sort of like just more sort of silly fun wrapping up type stuff. Yeah um so like outside of music uh what has been inspiring you lately you know do you do you are you like a cinema goer? Are you uh uh what's your sort of bag?

I. JORDAN:

What has been inspiring me? Um I've been really and I've been traveling quite a bit because I've been on the road quite a lot this summer and just being in new environments and just trying new food and just being in a new place and seeing something new um really helps me. I had like um I had a holiday in Greece with my partner after I'd done like my live show back in July and just like being in a completely new environment and like we just like hiked every day. It was like in the mountains and we're just like walking every day and that and then I wrote right wrote some music as soon as I got back home and I felt really inspired by just like being in nature and just like walking so I I find yeah I'm less of a cinema person more of like an I I go outdoors quite a lot. I love to walk I love to exercise so I kind of helps I I just like to move a very movie person.

Paul :

That's cool. And so do you try and put that you mentioned about like being on tour and stuff like you know people kind of like have different kinds of ways of sort of dealing with like quite weird kind of artificial intense ways of living you know you you're not really seeing the city that you're often in you know you're you're going from one place to another there's I mean how do you eat you know I get impression you sort of deal with things quite healthily I might be wrong but um how do you maintain that?

I. JORDAN:

Yeah I don't I don't drink alcohol um I I love to eat healthy foods so I think that just kind of helps um like having a healthy approach to being on the road and and I suppose yeah I've got I've had quite a lot of travel in the summer but actually like sometimes it's been like once a weekend so I get to spend the weekend in a new place. Yeah a few days where it's been like kind of like back to back to back but it's not all the time um so just having that like space either side to to chill and relax and and see a new place I think helps.

Paul :

And yeah I've got like raspberries and ginger shots my rider and all that sort of shit and that helps definitely right I I I I stopped drinking a year or so ago and it's definitely like changed a lot of things for me. Yeah it's great in it I fucking love it. I you know I would I the whole thing was just like okay I trading this to never have a hangover ever again and um it's just yeah yeah I just don't feel like people hate me the next day anymore.

I. JORDAN:

Like I mean I like got social anxiety at the best of times. I don't need a like a a drug to sort of like enhance that and yeah I don't I used to the only thing I miss about I guess is that um I really used to love sour beer just for the flavour. Right yeah I can't get alcohol free sour beer yet. So I'm hoping that that's a thing that that progresses but like yeah going to Brussels and just trying all their really good beer is um something I miss. But I like I like we said like I will never exchange that for a hangover or like feeling crap the next day especially if I've got like very little sleep trying to travel a lot due to like another gig and I just and also like I remember when I was like getting drunk when I was DJing and just how loose I felt and how I didn't feel connected with the music or the crowd and it just felt so numbing so much more connected with people when I'm present.

Paul :

Which which kind of feels I mean I can really relate to that I mean well firstly on the sour beer I feel like there will be but it's at that stage that I think vegan cheeses where it's not it just doesn't quite work. But I I I think like the bit the hardest thing I found was like dealing with energy at parties things like that. Like yeah um I found like the alcohol was like okay it might not I might not be as like I thought I was probably more like connected to people than I actually was but I also sort of feel like when I could drink I could just go on all night. Whereas like I think the the giving up drinking thing I had to relearn how to go to a party.

I. JORDAN:

Yeah.

Paul :

You know you get to that thing where it's like well I've there's I'm not gonna be doing anything that's gonna like bring about an extended energy you know apart from maybe if I just like have like an energy drink or something.

I. JORDAN:

I think um I've started going to I mean I I go to Unfold quite a lot party at full and that's a day party and I feel like I just it's five minutes from a house I just drive there go to that and go home and I think it's changed and also like yeah because I'm DJing so much I don't really go to parties loads. But yeah I I hear you I think you can really you can really tell when someone's a bit like drunk or coked up and they're just sort of chatting your ear off and you're all sober and you're like I don't think now's the night like I'm gonna politely move away would you say you're quite a polite person in those situations.

Paul :

I don't know I don't I probably I'm sure I've made a full out of myself many times just like walking away from a conversation um but yeah I think my tolerance for tolerance for shit chat has probably gone down since I since I stopped drinking my favorite lot for me is that I could see that in myself all right I could sort of like oh I was that guy I was I hope that was me yeah yeah definitely I'm I love it I love to chat people's ear off after a few beers I'm not gonna do I don't think I mean and then finally what's something that you if you could go back to your younger salt what kind of piece of advice what kind of like life advice would you give your younger salt just at that point when you're just starting to really engage with music on a on a like experiential level yeah what piece of advice would I give myself like in relation to music um it can be music you know people answer this in various different ways we got here oh yeah this is this is this is me and my partner's cat this is Dougly say hello to Jordan yeah I'm I would I would show you my cat but I'm at my studio I could have should we could have a cat off what what what what's your cat called uh it's called chewy oh he's just like huge main coon style massive boy that's yeah a sweetheart uh we were thinking about getting a main coon actually but we we we we got like a street tabby in the end but uh uh coons and tabbies they're supposed to be like some of the smartest aren't they yeah you can tell that chewy's very we clever he's um manipulatively clever actually if cats have intelligence it goes into manipulation oh 100 manipulation yeah sorry so uh younger self in relation to music or or anything um whichever you prefer really I mean sometimes it could it could be like a connection of both or it could be whatever you feel wherever you feel that question I feel like I mean yeah most with music stuff it's probably about like having the confidence and belief in in yourself to like probably I would have I wish I'd have started producing a bit sooner.

I. JORDAN:

Like I'm nearly 35 now and I feel like I kind of get a little bit jealous of artists when they're like oh 21 I'm like oh look it good for you you know whole lifetime ahead of your production um whereas I started like you know late 20s. Um and then I think the the more general piece of uh advice I'll give my younger self would be to learn how to have boundaries with people. I feel like um not even with boundaries with you but boundaries in yourself and like I was too much of a people pleaser and I've like really learned how to set boundaries with people who used to kind of take the piss out of me a bit and that's kind of happened as well but like I think you have healthier relationships once you understand yourself and yourself worth and you're able to set boundaries with people.

Paul :

Yeah it comes with age you know oh that's that's a beautiful answer um definitely I think I'm still figuring that out myself yeah I think I I really started to set boundaries with like self friends and family about four years ago and it's completely changed me I think and like yeah like what I would tolerate in terms of like good relationships and not not just the right romantic but like anything like any sort of relational meaningful thing like work, family, friends like it's once people once you realize you you shouldn't be taking the piss out of I think it it helps yeah yeah I think sometimes we can do so much damage to ourselves in the name of keeping good faith with people that we don't really even particularly care about or or whatever you know.

I. JORDAN:

Yeah exactly that yeah that's the journey that I've been on quite recently in the last like five years or so I would tell my younger self like stop putting up with shit that's a brilliant way to end it.

Paul :

Thank you so much Jordan oh thank you for the questions it was nice to chat with you really nice to chat with you too thanks so much for that okay so that was me Paul Hanford talking with iJordan for the Lost and Sound podcast and we had that conversation on the 21st of August 2025 thank you so much Jordan for sharing your time and thoughts with me there really love listening back to that chat and you can go and check out the most recent single Worth It which is out now on Ninja Tune. The tune with the the the single that we actually originally had the conversation with about in the summer with Tom Rasmussen an Angel slash girl reborn is obviously still available on Ninja Tune uh go back and check that out if you missed it but I'm sure you didn't um so yeah thanks so much for listening it's great to be back feeling pretty jet lagged and and yeah I guess that takes a few days doesn't it and I'm sort of propping myself up with coffee and getting sinking myself into like hours like daylight hours and night hours which are the opposite of where where I've come from um so whatever you're doing right now I hope you're having a really fantastic one. If you like the show and you haven't already please do give it a subscribe give the show a rating and a review on the platform of your choice and if you want to have a little bit of Christmas listening um you can check out the documentary I made with my partner Rosalie Delaney for Radio Free Wolf Beerman. It's about Wolf Beerman the German Bob Dylan exiled by the GDR it's available to listen to live on Radio 3 on the December the 28th at 715 UK time. So whatever wherever you are in the world if you want to tune into that it's 715 UK time. Really interested to hear what you think about that and I'll have more news about that in the coming couple of weeks. If you want to check out my book and you haven't already coming to Berlin is available in all good bookshops or via the publisher's website Velocity Press. And yeah Lost and Sound is sponsored by Audio Technica, the global but family run company that make headphones, turntables, cartridges and microphones studio quality yet affordable products because they believe that high quality audio should be accessible to all so wherever you are in the world head on over to audiotechnica.com to check out all of their range of stuff. The music that you hear at the beginning at the end of every episode of Lost in Sound is by Tom Giddens and so yeah that's it that's it for me. I hope whatever you're doing you're having a really fucking lovely one and I'll chat to you soon.