{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":1.09,"endTime":3.95,"body":"- I want to start by just"},{"startTime":1.09,"endTime":3.95,"body":"acknowledging some of my colleagues,"},{"startTime":3.95,"endTime":5.46,"body":"who's thinking has played a role"},{"startTime":5.46,"endTime":8.37,"body":"in shaping this particular talk tonight."},{"startTime":8.37,"endTime":11.43,"body":"Academia is always a"},{"startTime":8.37,"endTime":11.43,"body":"collaborative endeavor,"},{"startTime":11.43,"endTime":12.71,"body":"and this is no exception."},{"startTime":12.71,"endTime":15.67,"body":"So Professor James Stanyer,"},{"startTime":12.71,"endTime":15.67,"body":"Catherine R. Baker,"},{"startTime":15.67,"endTime":18.81,"body":"who's a PhD student of mine,"},{"startTime":15.67,"endTime":18.81,"body":"Professor Cristian Vakari,"},{"startTime":18.81,"endTime":22.54,"body":"and Andy Ross, who is"},{"startTime":18.81,"endTime":22.54,"body":"another PhD student of mine."},{"startTime":22.54,"endTime":24.55,"body":"I want to start with a quick question."},{"startTime":24.55,"endTime":28.41,"body":"So this is a friendly educational setting,"},{"startTime":28.41,"endTime":32.14,"body":"so I hope you don't mind this."},{"startTime":32.14,"endTime":35.28,"body":"Hopefully you won't find"},{"startTime":32.14,"endTime":35.28,"body":"it too difficult to answer."},{"startTime":35.28,"endTime":37.693,"body":"Have you ever been deceived?"},{"startTime":38.53,"endTime":41.44,"body":"Please raise your hand"},{"startTime":38.53,"endTime":41.44,"body":"if you've been deceived."},{"startTime":41.44,"endTime":43.73,"body":"I thought that would be the response."},{"startTime":43.73,"endTime":47.66,"body":"Now when you realized you'd been deceived,"},{"startTime":47.66,"endTime":51.28,"body":"did you feel a bit embarrassed about it?"},{"startTime":51.28,"endTime":52.53,"body":"- [Audience Member] Yes."},{"startTime":52.53,"endTime":53.7,"body":"- Yeah, okay."},{"startTime":53.7,"endTime":54.84,"body":"Hold that thought for now."},{"startTime":54.84,"endTime":57.08,"body":"You might be thinking,"},{"startTime":54.84,"endTime":57.08,"body":"why all these questions?"},{"startTime":57.08,"endTime":58.95,"body":"I'm here for a lecture."},{"startTime":58.95,"endTime":60.677,"body":"Give me some answers, not questions."},{"startTime":60.677,"endTime":62.9,"body":"There are good reasons why I've started"},{"startTime":62.9,"endTime":64.71,"body":"with these questions."},{"startTime":64.71,"endTime":67.35,"body":"It's because there are"},{"startTime":64.71,"endTime":67.35,"body":"two fundamental points"},{"startTime":67.35,"endTime":69.453,"body":"I'd like to begin with about deception."},{"startTime":70.58,"endTime":75.58,"body":"First, deception is fundamental"},{"startTime":70.58,"endTime":75.58,"body":"to the human condition."},{"startTime":75.81,"endTime":79.42,"body":"This isn't because everybody"},{"startTime":75.81,"endTime":79.42,"body":"lies all of the time."},{"startTime":79.42,"endTime":82.47,"body":"Deception isn't the same thing as lying."},{"startTime":82.47,"endTime":84.76,"body":"And I'll come to that point soon."},{"startTime":84.76,"endTime":87.79,"body":"The reason deception is"},{"startTime":84.76,"endTime":87.79,"body":"fundamental to the human condition"},{"startTime":87.79,"endTime":91.01,"body":"is because most people, most of the time,"},{"startTime":91.01,"endTime":94.66,"body":"believe that other"},{"startTime":91.01,"endTime":94.66,"body":"entities, be they people,"},{"startTime":94.66,"endTime":98.21,"body":"organizations, media, news reports,"},{"startTime":98.21,"endTime":101.55,"body":"even estate agents and politicians,"},{"startTime":101.55,"endTime":105.42,"body":"are basically truthful most of the time."},{"startTime":105.42,"endTime":109.25,"body":"So some social psychologists"},{"startTime":105.42,"endTime":109.25,"body":"such as Tim Levine,"},{"startTime":109.25,"endTime":114.25,"body":"have shown that most people"},{"startTime":109.25,"endTime":114.25,"body":"have what we call a truth bias,"},{"startTime":114.4,"endTime":116.38,"body":"or a truth default."},{"startTime":116.38,"endTime":119.34,"body":"Most people assume that others are honest"},{"startTime":119.34,"endTime":121.38,"body":"and telling the truth."},{"startTime":121.38,"endTime":123.36,"body":"And if you think about"},{"startTime":121.38,"endTime":123.36,"body":"it, most of the time,"},{"startTime":123.36,"endTime":124.54,"body":"this is a good way to be."},{"startTime":124.54,"endTime":127.69,"body":"It's an accurate perception"},{"startTime":124.54,"endTime":127.69,"body":"of how the world is."},{"startTime":127.69,"endTime":129.65,"body":"If we had to be behave as if others"},{"startTime":129.65,"endTime":132.95,"body":"are lying all of the time,"},{"startTime":129.65,"endTime":132.95,"body":"it would be exhausting."},{"startTime":132.95,"endTime":134.88,"body":"Most people do tell the truth,"},{"startTime":134.88,"endTime":138.36,"body":"surveys show that in many"},{"startTime":134.88,"endTime":138.36,"body":"countries around the world."},{"startTime":138.36,"endTime":142.81,"body":"Most people occasionally tell little lies."},{"startTime":142.81,"endTime":146.52,"body":"Some people frequently tell little lies,"},{"startTime":146.52,"endTime":149.54,"body":"but very few people tell big lies."},{"startTime":149.54,"endTime":154.083,"body":"And even fewer people tell"},{"startTime":149.54,"endTime":154.083,"body":"big lies all of the time."},{"startTime":155.39,"endTime":159.39,"body":"But the problem is, is that"},{"startTime":155.39,"endTime":159.39,"body":"truth bias that we have,"},{"startTime":159.39,"endTime":161.77,"body":"also comes with a cost."},{"startTime":161.77,"endTime":164.24,"body":"Because our assumption"},{"startTime":161.77,"endTime":164.24,"body":"that others are honest"},{"startTime":164.24,"endTime":165.93,"body":"makes us vulnerable."},{"startTime":165.93,"endTime":167.76,"body":"Most of us vulnerable,"},{"startTime":167.76,"endTime":170.87,"body":"to deception at least some of the time."},{"startTime":170.87,"endTime":174.4,"body":"And it makes us vulnerable when others"},{"startTime":174.4,"endTime":178.0,"body":"are really determined to deceive us."},{"startTime":178.0,"endTime":182.33,"body":"And since a small minority"},{"startTime":178.0,"endTime":182.33,"body":"of people and organizations,"},{"startTime":182.33,"endTime":185.85,"body":"do spend quite a lot of"},{"startTime":182.33,"endTime":185.85,"body":"time and other resources"},{"startTime":185.85,"endTime":189.13,"body":"including money, trying to deceive us."},{"startTime":189.13,"endTime":192.69,"body":"This makes all of us"},{"startTime":189.13,"endTime":192.69,"body":"vulnerable at some point."},{"startTime":192.69,"endTime":197.23,"body":"So hold that thought before"},{"startTime":192.69,"endTime":197.23,"body":"we start judging ourselves"},{"startTime":197.23,"endTime":200.363,"body":"too harshly, and judging other"},{"startTime":197.23,"endTime":200.363,"body":"people for being deceived."},{"startTime":201.24,"endTime":205.11,"body":"The second point I'd like"},{"startTime":201.24,"endTime":205.11,"body":"to make about deception"},{"startTime":205.11,"endTime":208.09,"body":"at the level of individual experience,"},{"startTime":208.09,"endTime":211.4,"body":"starts to broaden out into"},{"startTime":208.09,"endTime":211.4,"body":"its social implications."},{"startTime":211.4,"endTime":215.41,"body":"And it explains a lot to do"},{"startTime":211.4,"endTime":215.41,"body":"I think with why deception"},{"startTime":215.41,"endTime":217.39,"body":"is such a useful strategy,"},{"startTime":217.39,"endTime":220.81,"body":"particularly for certain political elites."},{"startTime":220.81,"endTime":223.9,"body":"The second point is that"},{"startTime":220.81,"endTime":223.9,"body":"admitting we've been deceived"},{"startTime":223.9,"endTime":225.85,"body":"usually involves some loss."},{"startTime":225.85,"endTime":230.85,"body":"Either of social status,"},{"startTime":225.85,"endTime":230.85,"body":"social identity, or both."},{"startTime":231.02,"endTime":233.18,"body":"This is a bit more"},{"startTime":231.02,"endTime":233.18,"body":"complicated, this point."},{"startTime":233.18,"endTime":234.393,"body":"So I'll explain."},{"startTime":235.23,"endTime":238.51,"body":"Now understandably we're"},{"startTime":235.23,"endTime":238.51,"body":"likely to feel upset, angry,"},{"startTime":238.51,"endTime":240.49,"body":"when we fall prey to deception."},{"startTime":240.49,"endTime":242.61,"body":"We're also likely to"},{"startTime":240.49,"endTime":242.61,"body":"feel some embarrassment"},{"startTime":242.61,"endTime":244.28,"body":"at having been taken in."},{"startTime":244.28,"endTime":247.09,"body":"How could I have been"},{"startTime":244.28,"endTime":247.09,"body":"so foolish and gullible?"},{"startTime":247.09,"endTime":249.38,"body":"Why didn't I spot the signals?"},{"startTime":249.38,"endTime":251.48,"body":"The things I took for granted,"},{"startTime":251.48,"endTime":254.03,"body":"have melted away and I'm a failure."},{"startTime":254.03,"endTime":256.67,"body":"These are all very common"},{"startTime":254.03,"endTime":256.67,"body":"experiences of being deceived"},{"startTime":256.67,"endTime":259.83,"body":"both at interpersonal, in"},{"startTime":256.67,"endTime":259.83,"body":"interpersonal relationships"},{"startTime":259.83,"endTime":263.45,"body":"but also, when it comes to"},{"startTime":259.83,"endTime":263.45,"body":"bigger public issues as well,"},{"startTime":263.45,"endTime":265.1,"body":"I would argue."},{"startTime":265.1,"endTime":268.52,"body":"So to illustrate this point,"},{"startTime":265.1,"endTime":268.52,"body":"let's consider an example."},{"startTime":268.52,"endTime":271.06,"body":"This is Charles Ponzi."},{"startTime":271.06,"endTime":274.76,"body":"The notorious banker"},{"startTime":271.06,"endTime":274.76,"body":"turned financial fraudster"},{"startTime":274.76,"endTime":279.55,"body":"and of course, inventor of"},{"startTime":274.76,"endTime":279.55,"body":"the autonomous Ponzi scheme."},{"startTime":279.55,"endTime":281.69,"body":"I'm not going to go into detail"},{"startTime":279.55,"endTime":281.69,"body":"about what a Ponzi scheme is,"},{"startTime":281.69,"endTime":282.96,"body":"but if you haven't heard about it,"},{"startTime":282.96,"endTime":286.99,"body":"it's a financial scam, based"},{"startTime":282.96,"endTime":286.99,"body":"on the continuous deception"},{"startTime":286.99,"endTime":290.17,"body":"of new investors, whose money is funneled"},{"startTime":290.17,"endTime":294.3,"body":"to previously deceived"},{"startTime":290.17,"endTime":294.3,"body":"investors without any investor,"},{"startTime":294.3,"endTime":298.46,"body":"ever owning any tangible"},{"startTime":294.3,"endTime":298.46,"body":"assets apart from of course,"},{"startTime":298.46,"endTime":302.583,"body":"the fraudster, him or herself"},{"startTime":298.46,"endTime":302.583,"body":"at the top of the pyramid."},{"startTime":304.52,"endTime":309.32,"body":"In 1954, the great"},{"startTime":304.52,"endTime":309.32,"body":"sociologist Erving Goffman,"},{"startTime":309.32,"endTime":314.01,"body":"wrote a fascinating article"},{"startTime":309.32,"endTime":314.01,"body":"about the characteristics"},{"startTime":314.01,"endTime":315.96,"body":"of financial deception."},{"startTime":315.96,"endTime":320.087,"body":"The article was called,"},{"startTime":315.96,"endTime":320.087,"body":"\"On Cooling the Mark Out:"},{"startTime":320.087,"endTime":323.067,"body":"\"Some Aspects of Adaptation to Failure.\""},{"startTime":323.91,"endTime":327.35,"body":"Goffman used the example of"},{"startTime":323.91,"endTime":327.35,"body":"what professional fraudsters"},{"startTime":327.35,"endTime":330.26,"body":"do when they've successfully"},{"startTime":327.35,"endTime":330.26,"body":"tricked someone,"},{"startTime":330.26,"endTime":333.333,"body":"into handing over money"},{"startTime":330.26,"endTime":333.333,"body":"in a gambling scam."},{"startTime":334.18,"endTime":337.6,"body":"Now in street slang, the"},{"startTime":334.18,"endTime":337.6,"body":"person who's the target"},{"startTime":337.6,"endTime":340.95,"body":"of a gambling scam, is known as a mark."},{"startTime":340.95,"endTime":342.72,"body":"You may have heard that before."},{"startTime":342.72,"endTime":347.1,"body":"The process of cooling the"},{"startTime":342.72,"endTime":347.1,"body":"mark in Goffman's title,"},{"startTime":347.1,"endTime":351.04,"body":"is when the con artist"},{"startTime":347.1,"endTime":351.04,"body":"sends an accomplice,"},{"startTime":351.04,"endTime":353.88,"body":"to talk to the poor"},{"startTime":351.04,"endTime":353.88,"body":"deceived person, the mark,"},{"startTime":353.88,"endTime":356.28,"body":"soon after the deception has happened."},{"startTime":356.28,"endTime":360.81,"body":"The aim is to cool the mark"},{"startTime":356.28,"endTime":360.81,"body":"down, to remind the mark"},{"startTime":360.81,"endTime":363.11,"body":"of the drawbacks of going to the police,"},{"startTime":363.11,"endTime":366.23,"body":"or publicizing that they've been conned."},{"startTime":366.23,"endTime":369.15,"body":"So the con artists accomplice is there,"},{"startTime":369.15,"endTime":371.52,"body":"to show the mark that"},{"startTime":369.15,"endTime":371.52,"body":"there are good reasons"},{"startTime":371.52,"endTime":375.11,"body":"to avoid admitting to others,"},{"startTime":371.52,"endTime":375.11,"body":"that they've been deceived."},{"startTime":375.11,"endTime":376.35,"body":"It'll be embarrassing."},{"startTime":376.35,"endTime":378.3,"body":"It won't do you any good anyway."},{"startTime":378.3,"endTime":381.213,"body":"You should just move"},{"startTime":378.3,"endTime":381.213,"body":"on, go home, and so on."},{"startTime":382.35,"endTime":386.73,"body":"Goffman's point underpins this"},{"startTime":382.35,"endTime":386.73,"body":"basic aspect of deception."},{"startTime":386.73,"endTime":390.2,"body":"There are strong incentives"},{"startTime":386.73,"endTime":390.2,"body":"to avoid admitting,"},{"startTime":390.2,"endTime":394.62,"body":"perhaps even to ourselves,"},{"startTime":390.2,"endTime":394.62,"body":"that we've been misled"},{"startTime":394.62,"endTime":398.28,"body":"or we are in some state of"},{"startTime":394.62,"endTime":398.28,"body":"ignorance about the world."},{"startTime":398.28,"endTime":401.16,"body":"Deception is a social process."},{"startTime":401.16,"endTime":405.59,"body":"It thrives in contexts,"},{"startTime":401.16,"endTime":405.59,"body":"where people are keen"},{"startTime":405.59,"endTime":408.88,"body":"to retain their social status"},{"startTime":405.59,"endTime":408.88,"body":"or their social identity"},{"startTime":408.88,"endTime":409.91,"body":"or both."},{"startTime":409.91,"endTime":413.66,"body":"We can gain status and social identity,"},{"startTime":413.66,"endTime":418.66,"body":"even social solidarity, by"},{"startTime":413.66,"endTime":418.66,"body":"continuing with false beliefs."},{"startTime":420.47,"endTime":423.37,"body":"This is what the legal"},{"startTime":420.47,"endTime":423.37,"body":"scholar, Daniel Kahan,"},{"startTime":423.37,"endTime":426.94,"body":"has termed identity protective cognition."},{"startTime":426.94,"endTime":429.08,"body":"I'll say a bit more about that later on."},{"startTime":429.08,"endTime":433.34,"body":"It's why we often choose"},{"startTime":429.08,"endTime":433.34,"body":"collective identity,"},{"startTime":433.34,"endTime":437.1,"body":"even if it conflicts with"},{"startTime":433.34,"endTime":437.1,"body":"the best available evidence"},{"startTime":437.1,"endTime":438.24,"body":"at the time."},{"startTime":438.24,"endTime":441.61,"body":"And it's why we're"},{"startTime":438.24,"endTime":441.61,"body":"susceptible to choosing tribe"},{"startTime":441.61,"endTime":444.41,"body":"over truth as Kahan puts it."},{"startTime":444.41,"endTime":446.003,"body":"Tribe over truth."},{"startTime":447.08,"endTime":450.56,"body":"Yet given that so many"},{"startTime":447.08,"endTime":450.56,"body":"areas of social, economic,"},{"startTime":450.56,"endTime":453.85,"body":"and of course political life"},{"startTime":450.56,"endTime":453.85,"body":"are shaped by the desire"},{"startTime":453.85,"endTime":456.62,"body":"to achieve social status,"},{"startTime":456.62,"endTime":459.83,"body":"and to maintain our social identities."},{"startTime":459.83,"endTime":463.31,"body":"This makes deception a"},{"startTime":459.83,"endTime":463.31,"body":"particularly difficult problem"},{"startTime":463.31,"endTime":467.35,"body":"to solve, in our media systems,"},{"startTime":463.31,"endTime":467.35,"body":"in politics, in society,"},{"startTime":467.35,"endTime":471.393,"body":"in interpersonal interactions,"},{"startTime":467.35,"endTime":471.393,"body":"online and so on."},{"startTime":473.64,"endTime":478.48,"body":"So beyond those two points,"},{"startTime":473.64,"endTime":478.48,"body":"I want to turn now to trying"},{"startTime":478.48,"endTime":481.27,"body":"to say something about defining deception."},{"startTime":481.27,"endTime":485.44,"body":"It's surprisingly difficult"},{"startTime":481.27,"endTime":485.44,"body":"to identify and measure."},{"startTime":485.44,"endTime":488.23,"body":"It's often better to start by"},{"startTime":485.44,"endTime":488.23,"body":"saying what deception is not."},{"startTime":488.23,"endTime":489.483,"body":"So I'll do that."},{"startTime":490.51,"endTime":494.97,"body":"First deception is not lying or lies."},{"startTime":494.97,"endTime":499.78,"body":"Lying of course plays an"},{"startTime":494.97,"endTime":499.78,"body":"important role in deception,"},{"startTime":499.78,"endTime":502.7,"body":"but lying's mere existence doesn't mean"},{"startTime":502.7,"endTime":504.74,"body":"that people are deceived."},{"startTime":504.74,"endTime":508.79,"body":"If it did, I'd argue that we'd"},{"startTime":504.74,"endTime":508.79,"body":"be in much greater trouble"},{"startTime":508.79,"endTime":512.08,"body":"as a society, than we are today."},{"startTime":512.08,"endTime":514.63,"body":"Nor is deception a lack of knowledge."},{"startTime":514.63,"endTime":519.04,"body":"There are all kinds of things"},{"startTime":514.63,"endTime":519.04,"body":"about which I lack knowledge,"},{"startTime":519.04,"endTime":521.37,"body":"how to make the best daiquiri cocktail,"},{"startTime":521.37,"endTime":524.8,"body":"or the precise size of the North Sea."},{"startTime":524.8,"endTime":527.51,"body":"But I haven't been deceived"},{"startTime":524.8,"endTime":527.51,"body":"about those things."},{"startTime":527.51,"endTime":531.17,"body":"I'm just not knowledgeable about them."},{"startTime":531.17,"endTime":534.12,"body":"Nor is deception secrecy."},{"startTime":534.12,"endTime":536.69,"body":"Deception often involves secrecy,"},{"startTime":536.69,"endTime":539.06,"body":"but it's possible to keep secrets in a way"},{"startTime":539.06,"endTime":543.12,"body":"that doesn't mislead others,"},{"startTime":539.06,"endTime":543.12,"body":"or harm others' interests."},{"startTime":543.12,"endTime":547.22,"body":"I'm sure that we've all had"},{"startTime":543.12,"endTime":547.22,"body":"examples of that in our lives."},{"startTime":547.22,"endTime":551.55,"body":"And finally, nor is"},{"startTime":547.22,"endTime":551.55,"body":"deception disinformation"},{"startTime":551.55,"endTime":552.73,"body":"or misinformation."},{"startTime":552.73,"endTime":554.43,"body":"Now this one's a little bit more tricky"},{"startTime":554.43,"endTime":557.76,"body":"'cause you probably heard,"},{"startTime":554.43,"endTime":557.76,"body":"these words banded around"},{"startTime":557.76,"endTime":559.81,"body":"a lot over the last five or six years,"},{"startTime":559.81,"endTime":563.18,"body":"because of the explosion"},{"startTime":559.81,"endTime":563.18,"body":"of research in this field."},{"startTime":563.18,"endTime":566.57,"body":"And I'm a participant"},{"startTime":563.18,"endTime":566.57,"body":"in that field as well."},{"startTime":566.57,"endTime":569.25,"body":"It's a bit more tricky so bear with me."},{"startTime":569.25,"endTime":571.34,"body":"Over the last few years it's become common"},{"startTime":571.34,"endTime":574.93,"body":"to make a distinction,"},{"startTime":571.34,"endTime":574.93,"body":"especially social scientists,"},{"startTime":574.93,"endTime":576.86,"body":"to make a distinction"},{"startTime":574.93,"endTime":576.86,"body":"between misinformation"},{"startTime":576.86,"endTime":578.16,"body":"and disinformation."},{"startTime":578.16,"endTime":581.43,"body":"Disinformation is often"},{"startTime":578.16,"endTime":581.43,"body":"portrayed as intentional,"},{"startTime":581.43,"endTime":584.93,"body":"and misinformation as unintentional."},{"startTime":584.93,"endTime":586.26,"body":"So depending on the case,"},{"startTime":586.26,"endTime":588.79,"body":"these terms have been used either as verbs"},{"startTime":588.79,"endTime":593.21,"body":"to describe behaviors,"},{"startTime":588.79,"endTime":593.21,"body":"spreading things, for instance."},{"startTime":593.21,"endTime":595.77,"body":"Or nouns to describe the quality"},{"startTime":595.77,"endTime":599.05,"body":"of the information itself,"},{"startTime":595.77,"endTime":599.05,"body":"bad quality information."},{"startTime":599.05,"endTime":601.5,"body":"Now this is a good and useful distinction,"},{"startTime":601.5,"endTime":604.64,"body":"but the mere existence of"},{"startTime":601.5,"endTime":604.64,"body":"disinformation or misinformation,"},{"startTime":604.64,"endTime":607.71,"body":"doesn't necessarily mean"},{"startTime":604.64,"endTime":607.71,"body":"that people are deceived"},{"startTime":607.71,"endTime":610.77,"body":"and changed their attitudes and behavior."},{"startTime":610.77,"endTime":612.81,"body":"In fact, a longstanding challenge"},{"startTime":612.81,"endTime":615.7,"body":"for political communication"},{"startTime":612.81,"endTime":615.7,"body":"researchers like me,"},{"startTime":615.7,"endTime":619.27,"body":"is how to identify when"},{"startTime":615.7,"endTime":619.27,"body":"an intention to deceive"},{"startTime":619.27,"endTime":621.79,"body":"actually results in deception."},{"startTime":621.79,"endTime":623.35,"body":"It's really difficult."},{"startTime":623.35,"endTime":626.38,"body":"So historically accounts"},{"startTime":623.35,"endTime":626.38,"body":"of propaganda for instance,"},{"startTime":626.38,"endTime":629.33,"body":"are often highly detailed"},{"startTime":626.38,"endTime":629.33,"body":"about attempts to deceive"},{"startTime":629.33,"endTime":632.47,"body":"the content of the messages,"},{"startTime":629.33,"endTime":632.47,"body":"the symbols and so on."},{"startTime":632.47,"endTime":634.54,"body":"But the acceptance of meaning,"},{"startTime":634.54,"endTime":636.93,"body":"how people actually perceive the messages,"},{"startTime":636.93,"endTime":639.62,"body":"can't just be inferred from the content"},{"startTime":639.62,"endTime":641.89,"body":"of the propaganda messages."},{"startTime":641.89,"endTime":645.03,"body":"And on the other side of the"},{"startTime":641.89,"endTime":645.03,"body":"coin, accounts of beliefs"},{"startTime":645.03,"endTime":648.04,"body":"such as conspiracy theories, are strong"},{"startTime":648.04,"endTime":651.38,"body":"on the psychological biases"},{"startTime":648.04,"endTime":651.38,"body":"that make people susceptible"},{"startTime":651.38,"endTime":654.94,"body":"to false beliefs, but they often"},{"startTime":651.38,"endTime":654.94,"body":"don't have very much to say"},{"startTime":654.94,"endTime":657.4,"body":"about who introduces false information"},{"startTime":657.4,"endTime":660.61,"body":"such as conspiracy theories,"},{"startTime":657.4,"endTime":660.61,"body":"in the first place."},{"startTime":660.61,"endTime":662.78,"body":"They don't have much to"},{"startTime":660.61,"endTime":662.78,"body":"say about how some people"},{"startTime":662.78,"endTime":667.29,"body":"in organizations, try to activate"},{"startTime":662.78,"endTime":667.29,"body":"our psychological biases,"},{"startTime":667.29,"endTime":670.463,"body":"to mobilize opinion and gain power."},{"startTime":671.99,"endTime":675.11,"body":"The biases that make us"},{"startTime":671.99,"endTime":675.11,"body":"susceptible to deception"},{"startTime":675.11,"endTime":679.11,"body":"are put there by our"},{"startTime":675.11,"endTime":679.11,"body":"past experiences I argue,"},{"startTime":679.11,"endTime":681.62,"body":"and our social interactions."},{"startTime":681.62,"endTime":684.89,"body":"So what all of this means is"},{"startTime":681.62,"endTime":684.89,"body":"that to understand deception"},{"startTime":684.89,"endTime":688.3,"body":"as a distinctive thing,"},{"startTime":684.89,"endTime":688.3,"body":"we need to understand"},{"startTime":688.3,"endTime":691.45,"body":"social interactions, and"},{"startTime":688.3,"endTime":691.45,"body":"we need to understand"},{"startTime":691.45,"endTime":694.84,"body":"how deceivers can"},{"startTime":691.45,"endTime":694.84,"body":"actively shape the context"},{"startTime":694.84,"endTime":698.89,"body":"of communication, to achieve"},{"startTime":694.84,"endTime":698.89,"body":"their goals of deception,"},{"startTime":698.89,"endTime":702.71,"body":"and changing people's"},{"startTime":698.89,"endTime":702.71,"body":"attitudes and behaviors."},{"startTime":702.71,"endTime":706.653,"body":"So with those principles in"},{"startTime":702.71,"endTime":706.653,"body":"mind, where does that leave us?"},{"startTime":708.02,"endTime":711.3,"body":"I like to think of deception"},{"startTime":708.02,"endTime":711.3,"body":"as a conceptual bridge."},{"startTime":711.3,"endTime":714.64,"body":"It's the bridge that"},{"startTime":711.3,"endTime":714.64,"body":"links together intentions,"},{"startTime":714.64,"endTime":716.76,"body":"interactions, and outcomes."},{"startTime":716.76,"endTime":719.93,"body":"So the intentions can be those"},{"startTime":716.76,"endTime":719.93,"body":"of people, organizations,"},{"startTime":719.93,"endTime":723.25,"body":"or other entities, even"},{"startTime":719.93,"endTime":723.25,"body":"technologies for example,"},{"startTime":723.25,"endTime":727.27,"body":"such as an automated fake"},{"startTime":723.25,"endTime":727.27,"body":"social media account."},{"startTime":727.27,"endTime":730.01,"body":"The interactions are the"},{"startTime":727.27,"endTime":730.01,"body":"wide varieties of types"},{"startTime":730.01,"endTime":733.46,"body":"of communication between"},{"startTime":730.01,"endTime":733.46,"body":"deceivers and the deceived."},{"startTime":733.46,"endTime":738.39,"body":"and the outcomes are changes"},{"startTime":733.46,"endTime":738.39,"body":"in attitudes or behaviors."},{"startTime":738.39,"endTime":740.89,"body":"So in my view deception is best understood"},{"startTime":740.89,"endTime":743.31,"body":"not as all of those things"},{"startTime":740.89,"endTime":743.31,"body":"that I said it wasn't,"},{"startTime":743.31,"endTime":748.31,"body":"but as when an identifiable"},{"startTime":743.31,"endTime":748.31,"body":"entities intention to mislead,"},{"startTime":748.94,"endTime":752.77,"body":"results in attitudinal"},{"startTime":748.94,"endTime":752.77,"body":"or behavioral outcomes"},{"startTime":752.77,"endTime":754.823,"body":"that correspond with the intention."},{"startTime":755.84,"endTime":759.07,"body":"So that's the kind of"},{"startTime":755.84,"endTime":759.07,"body":"definition of deception"},{"startTime":759.07,"endTime":762.05,"body":"that I like to work with,"},{"startTime":759.07,"endTime":762.05,"body":"because it's more precise"},{"startTime":762.05,"endTime":764.64,"body":"than a lot of the social"},{"startTime":762.05,"endTime":764.64,"body":"science literature"},{"startTime":764.64,"endTime":768.01,"body":"that we come across on"},{"startTime":764.64,"endTime":768.01,"body":"misinformation and disinformation."},{"startTime":768.01,"endTime":769.24,"body":"So far so good."},{"startTime":769.24,"endTime":771.43,"body":"But like most simple definitions,"},{"startTime":771.43,"endTime":773.86,"body":"when you start to expand"},{"startTime":771.43,"endTime":773.86,"body":"on the detail of course,"},{"startTime":773.86,"endTime":776.2,"body":"things soon get more complicated."},{"startTime":776.2,"endTime":777.35,"body":"In the rest of the talk,"},{"startTime":777.35,"endTime":781.69,"body":"I'm going to talk you through"},{"startTime":777.35,"endTime":781.69,"body":"five varieties of deception."},{"startTime":781.69,"endTime":784.24,"body":"Then I'm going to say something"},{"startTime":781.69,"endTime":784.24,"body":"about why deception's bad"},{"startTime":784.24,"endTime":785.073,"body":"for democracy."},{"startTime":785.073,"endTime":787.61,"body":"And I'm going to close"},{"startTime":785.073,"endTime":787.61,"body":"with some broad principles"},{"startTime":787.61,"endTime":789.273,"body":"for how we might fight back."},{"startTime":792.91,"endTime":795.993,"body":"So my first variety involves rhetoric."},{"startTime":796.85,"endTime":799.26,"body":"The first thing to say here"},{"startTime":796.85,"endTime":799.26,"body":"is that bear faced lies"},{"startTime":799.26,"endTime":800.41,"body":"are rare."},{"startTime":800.41,"endTime":804.89,"body":"Complex combinations of"},{"startTime":800.41,"endTime":804.89,"body":"true and false information,"},{"startTime":804.89,"endTime":807.78,"body":"matter more in this game."},{"startTime":807.78,"endTime":810.24,"body":"Deception can involve lots"},{"startTime":807.78,"endTime":810.24,"body":"of different techniques"},{"startTime":810.24,"endTime":812.52,"body":"beyond the direct promotion of falsehoods."},{"startTime":812.52,"endTime":816.51,"body":"These include withholding"},{"startTime":812.52,"endTime":816.51,"body":"information, switching topic,"},{"startTime":816.51,"endTime":820.62,"body":"strategic ambiguity,"},{"startTime":816.51,"endTime":820.62,"body":"diversions, deflections,"},{"startTime":820.62,"endTime":824.12,"body":"generating counterfactual,"},{"startTime":820.62,"endTime":824.12,"body":"or conditional versions"},{"startTime":824.12,"endTime":827.18,"body":"of events, that can make"},{"startTime":824.12,"endTime":827.18,"body":"belief in falsehoods"},{"startTime":827.18,"endTime":828.58,"body":"more comfortable for people."},{"startTime":829.6,"endTime":831.76,"body":"And deception can also rise when evidence"},{"startTime":831.76,"endTime":833.7,"body":"that reduces false beliefs,"},{"startTime":833.7,"endTime":836.15,"body":"doesn't become current and available."},{"startTime":836.15,"endTime":837.64,"body":"So in this way can operate"},{"startTime":837.64,"endTime":839.63,"body":"through what some political scientists"},{"startTime":839.63,"endTime":842.1,"body":"have called nondecisions."},{"startTime":842.1,"endTime":845.9,"body":"So a nondecision is when you"},{"startTime":842.1,"endTime":845.9,"body":"deliberately limit the scope"},{"startTime":845.9,"endTime":849.73,"body":"of political decision making,"},{"startTime":845.9,"endTime":849.73,"body":"to avoid dealing with issues,"},{"startTime":849.73,"endTime":852.73,"body":"in ways that might reduce"},{"startTime":849.73,"endTime":852.73,"body":"support for your cause,"},{"startTime":852.73,"endTime":853.73,"body":"or your interests."},{"startTime":853.73,"endTime":856.47,"body":"So deception can operate in that way."},{"startTime":856.47,"endTime":860.28,"body":"I want to give you an example,"},{"startTime":856.47,"endTime":860.28,"body":"a very recent example."},{"startTime":860.28,"endTime":862.54,"body":"On this day, very apposite actually given"},{"startTime":862.54,"endTime":864.51,"body":"it's the local elections."},{"startTime":864.51,"endTime":866.9,"body":"Let's consider one example."},{"startTime":866.9,"endTime":871.6,"body":"During December 2019, in the"},{"startTime":866.9,"endTime":871.6,"body":"UK general election campaign."},{"startTime":871.6,"endTime":875.15,"body":"Boris Johnson the prime"},{"startTime":871.6,"endTime":875.15,"body":"minister, repeatedly claimed"},{"startTime":875.15,"endTime":876.947,"body":"that the government would, and I quote,"},{"startTime":876.947,"endTime":881.14,"body":"\"Build 40 new hospitals by 2030.\""},{"startTime":881.14,"endTime":883.57,"body":"At the time, he left out the information"},{"startTime":883.57,"endTime":887.56,"body":"that funding was only in"},{"startTime":883.57,"endTime":887.56,"body":"place for six hospitals,"},{"startTime":887.56,"endTime":889.89,"body":"as an investigation by"},{"startTime":887.56,"endTime":889.89,"body":"The Guardian Newspaper"},{"startTime":889.89,"endTime":891.82,"body":"revealed soon after the election."},{"startTime":891.82,"endTime":895.18,"body":"But after that things got murkier still."},{"startTime":895.18,"endTime":899.25,"body":"Last December, BBC News Reality Check team"},{"startTime":899.25,"endTime":902.22,"body":"of fact checkers, analyzed"},{"startTime":899.25,"endTime":902.22,"body":"the government's pledge"},{"startTime":902.22,"endTime":904.29,"body":"to build 40 new hospitals."},{"startTime":904.29,"endTime":907.55,"body":"The journalist there"},{"startTime":904.29,"endTime":907.55,"body":"discovered an obscured document"},{"startTime":907.55,"endTime":911.12,"body":"issued in August 2021, by the department"},{"startTime":911.12,"endTime":913.23,"body":"of health and social Care."},{"startTime":913.23,"endTime":916.39,"body":"This document set out"},{"startTime":913.23,"endTime":916.39,"body":"guidance to NHS trusts"},{"startTime":916.39,"endTime":918.047,"body":"on what it called, and I quote,"},{"startTime":918.047,"endTime":921.487,"body":"\"The key media lines"},{"startTime":918.047,"endTime":921.487,"body":"to use when responding"},{"startTime":921.487,"endTime":925.047,"body":"\"to questions about the pledge"},{"startTime":921.487,"endTime":925.047,"body":"to build 40 new hospitals.\""},{"startTime":926.69,"endTime":930.23,"body":"The government document"},{"startTime":926.69,"endTime":930.23,"body":"defined a new hospital"},{"startTime":930.23,"endTime":933.75,"body":"in many different and rather strange ways."},{"startTime":933.75,"endTime":936.25,"body":"But these came under three broad headings."},{"startTime":936.25,"endTime":939.84,"body":"First of all, a whole new"},{"startTime":936.25,"endTime":939.84,"body":"hospital on a new site,"},{"startTime":939.84,"endTime":942.15,"body":"or current NHS land."},{"startTime":942.15,"endTime":944.49,"body":"Secondly, a major new clinical building"},{"startTime":944.49,"endTime":947.71,"body":"on an existing site, or a new"},{"startTime":944.49,"endTime":947.71,"body":"wing of an existing hospital."},{"startTime":947.71,"endTime":950.043,"body":"And thirdly, a major refurbishment."},{"startTime":951.21,"endTime":952.92,"body":"Now here's the important point."},{"startTime":952.92,"endTime":956.23,"body":"The government document said"},{"startTime":952.92,"endTime":956.23,"body":"that there was a wide variety"},{"startTime":956.23,"endTime":958.077,"body":"of schemes, but, and I quote,"},{"startTime":958.077,"endTime":962.407,"body":"\"They must always be referred"},{"startTime":958.077,"endTime":962.407,"body":"to as a new hospital,"},{"startTime":962.407,"endTime":966.03,"body":"\"in all press and public"},{"startTime":962.407,"endTime":966.03,"body":"relations communication.\""},{"startTime":966.03,"endTime":968.21,"body":"Now when the BBC asked"},{"startTime":966.03,"endTime":968.21,"body":"the department of health,"},{"startTime":968.21,"endTime":971.4,"body":"how many entirely new"},{"startTime":968.21,"endTime":971.4,"body":"hospitals were being built,"},{"startTime":971.4,"endTime":974.437,"body":"an official spokesperson"},{"startTime":971.4,"endTime":974.437,"body":"replied, and I quote,"},{"startTime":974.437,"endTime":979.407,"body":"\"We have committed to"},{"startTime":974.437,"endTime":979.407,"body":"build 48 hospitals by 2030,"},{"startTime":979.407,"endTime":984.407,"body":"\"backed by an initial 3.7 billion pounds.\""},{"startTime":984.71,"endTime":987.12,"body":"So now it was 48 hospitals."},{"startTime":987.12,"endTime":992.12,"body":"But note the phrases committed"},{"startTime":987.12,"endTime":992.12,"body":"to, and backed by an initial"},{"startTime":993.48,"endTime":998.21,"body":"3.7 billion pounds, not"},{"startTime":993.48,"endTime":998.21,"body":"currently being built,"},{"startTime":998.21,"endTime":1001.433,"body":"not enough money, and only initial money."},{"startTime":1002.48,"endTime":1003.73,"body":"So after much research,"},{"startTime":1003.73,"endTime":1007.84,"body":"which involved the BBC"},{"startTime":1003.73,"endTime":1007.84,"body":"writing to all NHS trusts"},{"startTime":1007.84,"endTime":1011.79,"body":"across the land, BBC News"},{"startTime":1007.84,"endTime":1011.79,"body":"established that on current plans"},{"startTime":1011.79,"endTime":1014.89,"body":"only three new hospitals were"},{"startTime":1011.79,"endTime":1014.89,"body":"definitely going to be built,"},{"startTime":1014.89,"endTime":1016.73,"body":"by 2030."},{"startTime":1016.73,"endTime":1020.89,"body":"Not 48, not 40, but three."},{"startTime":1020.89,"endTime":1023.383,"body":"Two of those are general hospitals."},{"startTime":1024.35,"endTime":1026.92,"body":"One is a non-urgent care hospital."},{"startTime":1026.92,"endTime":1030.39,"body":"And those two general hospitals"},{"startTime":1026.92,"endTime":1030.39,"body":"were already being built,"},{"startTime":1030.39,"endTime":1033.32,"body":"and were due to open before"},{"startTime":1030.39,"endTime":1033.32,"body":"the prime minister's pledge"},{"startTime":1033.32,"endTime":1035.11,"body":"to build 40 new hospitals."},{"startTime":1035.11,"endTime":1037.43,"body":"Instantly those two still haven't opened"},{"startTime":1037.43,"endTime":1039.603,"body":"because they've been beset by delays."},{"startTime":1041.2,"endTime":1042.17,"body":"So what do we see here?"},{"startTime":1042.17,"endTime":1045.19,"body":"Several aspects of rhetoric."},{"startTime":1045.19,"endTime":1049.32,"body":"First, complex combinations"},{"startTime":1045.19,"endTime":1049.32,"body":"of true and false information."},{"startTime":1049.32,"endTime":1053.3,"body":"There is a program of new"},{"startTime":1049.32,"endTime":1053.3,"body":"building underway in the NHS,"},{"startTime":1053.3,"endTime":1056.91,"body":"but entirely new hospitals"},{"startTime":1053.3,"endTime":1056.91,"body":"are only a small part of it."},{"startTime":1056.91,"endTime":1059.5,"body":"Secondly, strategic ambiguity."},{"startTime":1059.5,"endTime":1062.01,"body":"The funding isn't in place"},{"startTime":1059.5,"endTime":1062.01,"body":"for the entire program."},{"startTime":1062.01,"endTime":1064.94,"body":"It's an initial 3.7"},{"startTime":1062.01,"endTime":1064.94,"body":"billion, and not enough"},{"startTime":1064.94,"endTime":1068.38,"body":"for 48 building projects,"},{"startTime":1064.94,"endTime":1068.38,"body":"let alone hospitals."},{"startTime":1068.38,"endTime":1070.11,"body":"The cost would be far higher,"},{"startTime":1070.11,"endTime":1072.45,"body":"and only two have been approved."},{"startTime":1072.45,"endTime":1075.94,"body":"Diversions and deflections"},{"startTime":1072.45,"endTime":1075.94,"body":"and counterfactual versions."},{"startTime":1075.94,"endTime":1078.67,"body":"In this case, the use of definitions,"},{"startTime":1078.67,"endTime":1082.14,"body":"most people wouldn't recognize"},{"startTime":1078.67,"endTime":1082.14,"body":"in everyday language,"},{"startTime":1082.14,"endTime":1085.6,"body":"but feel truthy when repeated."},{"startTime":1085.6,"endTime":1089.07,"body":"So is an extension to, or a"},{"startTime":1085.6,"endTime":1089.07,"body":"refurbishment to a hospital"},{"startTime":1089.07,"endTime":1091.01,"body":"actually a new hospital?"},{"startTime":1091.01,"endTime":1093.95,"body":"If you added a conservatory"},{"startTime":1091.01,"endTime":1093.95,"body":"to the back of your house,"},{"startTime":1093.95,"endTime":1095.3,"body":"would you tell all of your friends"},{"startTime":1095.3,"endTime":1097.25,"body":"that you have a new house?"},{"startTime":1097.25,"endTime":1099.0,"body":"Probably not."},{"startTime":1099.0,"endTime":1102.48,"body":"Concealing or withholding"},{"startTime":1099.0,"endTime":1102.48,"body":"information especially over time."},{"startTime":1102.48,"endTime":1105.97,"body":"It was only when BBC news"},{"startTime":1102.48,"endTime":1105.97,"body":"quizzed the government,"},{"startTime":1105.97,"endTime":1107.19,"body":"that it revealed information"},{"startTime":1107.19,"endTime":1108.853,"body":"that was potentially misleading."},{"startTime":1111.83,"endTime":1116.51,"body":"My next variety of"},{"startTime":1111.83,"endTime":1116.51,"body":"deception is a bit tricky."},{"startTime":1116.51,"endTime":1118.27,"body":"It's willful ignorance."},{"startTime":1118.27,"endTime":1119.73,"body":"It's a special category."},{"startTime":1119.73,"endTime":1122.07,"body":"And I'll explain why."},{"startTime":1122.07,"endTime":1124.9,"body":"Again, this doesn't involve"},{"startTime":1122.07,"endTime":1124.9,"body":"the direct promotion"},{"startTime":1124.9,"endTime":1126.2,"body":"of falsehoods."},{"startTime":1126.2,"endTime":1130.15,"body":"The kind of deception of"},{"startTime":1126.2,"endTime":1130.15,"body":"this kind can be structurally"},{"startTime":1130.15,"endTime":1133.75,"body":"organized and advanced by"},{"startTime":1130.15,"endTime":1133.75,"body":"those in positions of power."},{"startTime":1133.75,"endTime":1135.8,"body":"Some of you may have"},{"startTime":1133.75,"endTime":1135.8,"body":"come across this before."},{"startTime":1135.8,"endTime":1140.08,"body":"So in famous investigations"},{"startTime":1135.8,"endTime":1140.08,"body":"such as the Nuremberg trials,"},{"startTime":1140.08,"endTime":1142.5,"body":"the Watergate investigations"},{"startTime":1140.08,"endTime":1142.5,"body":"in the United States"},{"startTime":1142.5,"endTime":1143.95,"body":"in the early 1970s."},{"startTime":1143.95,"endTime":1147.15,"body":"The Enron fraud trial in the mid 2000s."},{"startTime":1147.15,"endTime":1150.18,"body":"Willful ignorance was"},{"startTime":1147.15,"endTime":1150.18,"body":"established as a key theme."},{"startTime":1150.18,"endTime":1152.7,"body":"These investigations tried to establish"},{"startTime":1152.7,"endTime":1155.13,"body":"not only who knew what and when,"},{"startTime":1155.13,"endTime":1157.76,"body":"but also whether those"},{"startTime":1155.13,"endTime":1157.76,"body":"in positions of power"},{"startTime":1157.76,"endTime":1161.31,"body":"deliberately avoided exposure to evidence."},{"startTime":1161.31,"endTime":1165.5,"body":"So they could claim that at"},{"startTime":1161.31,"endTime":1165.5,"body":"the time they couldn't possibly"},{"startTime":1165.5,"endTime":1169.063,"body":"have known the harmful"},{"startTime":1165.5,"endTime":1169.063,"body":"consequences of their actions."},{"startTime":1169.97,"endTime":1172.26,"body":"So consider two areas."},{"startTime":1172.26,"endTime":1176.44,"body":"One is tobacco advertising,"},{"startTime":1172.26,"endTime":1176.44,"body":"the other is climate change."},{"startTime":1176.44,"endTime":1179.04,"body":"Where history has shown"},{"startTime":1176.44,"endTime":1179.04,"body":"that organized interests"},{"startTime":1179.04,"endTime":1182.48,"body":"have promoted uncertainty"},{"startTime":1179.04,"endTime":1182.48,"body":"to deceive others,"},{"startTime":1182.48,"endTime":1184.75,"body":"and boast of their"},{"startTime":1182.48,"endTime":1184.75,"body":"self-interest in pursuing"},{"startTime":1184.75,"endTime":1187.27,"body":"a socially harmful course of action."},{"startTime":1187.27,"endTime":1190.8,"body":"Tobacco advertising deceived"},{"startTime":1187.27,"endTime":1190.8,"body":"many people from the 1950s"},{"startTime":1190.8,"endTime":1193.33,"body":"to the 2000s, including my dad."},{"startTime":1193.33,"endTime":1195.89,"body":"When the harms of"},{"startTime":1193.33,"endTime":1195.89,"body":"cigarettes were well known"},{"startTime":1195.89,"endTime":1198.54,"body":"to tobacco companies but were buried."},{"startTime":1198.54,"endTime":1202.03,"body":"Climate denial campaigns"},{"startTime":1198.54,"endTime":1202.03,"body":"funded by carbon intensive"},{"startTime":1202.03,"endTime":1205.59,"body":"industrial interests, have"},{"startTime":1202.03,"endTime":1205.59,"body":"also deceived many people"},{"startTime":1205.59,"endTime":1208.473,"body":"into thinking that climate"},{"startTime":1205.59,"endTime":1208.473,"body":"change is not real."},{"startTime":1209.81,"endTime":1212.81,"body":"Now the complexity of modern organizations"},{"startTime":1212.81,"endTime":1216.55,"body":"makes willful ignorance easier to achieve,"},{"startTime":1216.55,"endTime":1219.98,"body":"because lots of tasks in modern"},{"startTime":1216.55,"endTime":1219.98,"body":"bureaucratic organizations"},{"startTime":1219.98,"endTime":1221.43,"body":"are fragmented."},{"startTime":1221.43,"endTime":1224.28,"body":"It becomes difficult to"},{"startTime":1221.43,"endTime":1224.28,"body":"identify who's responsible"},{"startTime":1224.28,"endTime":1225.6,"body":"for decisions."},{"startTime":1225.6,"endTime":1227.02,"body":"And for this reason of course,"},{"startTime":1227.02,"endTime":1230.97,"body":"international law relating to war crimes,"},{"startTime":1230.97,"endTime":1233.27,"body":"much in the news right"},{"startTime":1230.97,"endTime":1233.27,"body":"now for good reasons,"},{"startTime":1233.27,"endTime":1236.65,"body":"tries to clearly hold"},{"startTime":1233.27,"endTime":1236.65,"body":"individuals to account"},{"startTime":1236.65,"endTime":1238.863,"body":"rather than organizations."},{"startTime":1240.79,"endTime":1243.07,"body":"This is a picture of Walter Funk."},{"startTime":1243.07,"endTime":1246.81,"body":"Funk was a junior minister,"},{"startTime":1243.07,"endTime":1246.81,"body":"at the Nazi Ministry"},{"startTime":1246.81,"endTime":1250.5,"body":"of Propaganda from 1933 to 1938."},{"startTime":1250.5,"endTime":1253.25,"body":"He then became Minister"},{"startTime":1250.5,"endTime":1253.25,"body":"for Economic Affairs"},{"startTime":1253.25,"endTime":1256.52,"body":"and President of the"},{"startTime":1253.25,"endTime":1256.52,"body":"State Bank in Germany,"},{"startTime":1256.52,"endTime":1260.5,"body":"until the end of the Nazi regime in 1945."},{"startTime":1260.5,"endTime":1263.2,"body":"Now at the Nuremberg trials in 1946,"},{"startTime":1263.2,"endTime":1267.62,"body":"the US prosecutor, Robert"},{"startTime":1263.2,"endTime":1267.62,"body":"Jackson, famously called Funk."},{"startTime":1267.62,"endTime":1271.42,"body":"And I quote, \"The banker of gold teeth.\""},{"startTime":1271.42,"endTime":1275.0,"body":"When minister for economic"},{"startTime":1271.42,"endTime":1275.0,"body":"affairs, Funk had processed"},{"startTime":1275.0,"endTime":1278.6,"body":"shipments of gold,"},{"startTime":1275.0,"endTime":1278.6,"body":"including dental repairs"},{"startTime":1278.6,"endTime":1281.55,"body":"that had been removed from"},{"startTime":1278.6,"endTime":1281.55,"body":"the bodies of victims,"},{"startTime":1281.55,"endTime":1283.94,"body":"of the Nazi death camps."},{"startTime":1283.94,"endTime":1286.8,"body":"Despite being involved"},{"startTime":1283.94,"endTime":1286.8,"body":"in Hitler's government"},{"startTime":1286.8,"endTime":1291.41,"body":"at the senior level for 12"},{"startTime":1286.8,"endTime":1291.41,"body":"years, at Nuremberg Funk denied"},{"startTime":1291.41,"endTime":1294.12,"body":"he knew the origins of the"},{"startTime":1291.41,"endTime":1294.12,"body":"shipments of gold teeth"},{"startTime":1294.12,"endTime":1296.51,"body":"he received into the Bundesbank."},{"startTime":1296.51,"endTime":1299.91,"body":"And he pleaded ignorance"},{"startTime":1296.51,"endTime":1299.91,"body":"of the atrocities,"},{"startTime":1299.91,"endTime":1302.03,"body":"in the death camps."},{"startTime":1302.03,"endTime":1305.637,"body":"In its judgment, the Nuremberg"},{"startTime":1302.03,"endTime":1305.637,"body":"tribunal said, and I quote,"},{"startTime":1305.637,"endTime":1309.067,"body":"\"Funk either knew what was being received,"},{"startTime":1309.067,"endTime":1311.507,"body":"\"or was deliberately closing his eyes"},{"startTime":1311.507,"endTime":1313.5,"body":"\"to what was being done.\""},{"startTime":1313.5,"endTime":1317.31,"body":"So the key point here is that"},{"startTime":1313.5,"endTime":1317.31,"body":"Funk's deliberate closing"},{"startTime":1317.31,"endTime":1319.93,"body":"of his eyes to what was being done,"},{"startTime":1319.93,"endTime":1323.1,"body":"depended on his knowing"},{"startTime":1319.93,"endTime":1323.1,"body":"what was being done."},{"startTime":1323.1,"endTime":1325.5,"body":"And that's willful ignorance."},{"startTime":1325.5,"endTime":1330.5,"body":"Closing your eyes when you"},{"startTime":1325.5,"endTime":1330.5,"body":"know what it is you've seen."},{"startTime":1330.5,"endTime":1333.61,"body":"So a particularly difficult"},{"startTime":1330.5,"endTime":1333.61,"body":"category of deception,"},{"startTime":1333.61,"endTime":1334.97,"body":"but one that's really important,"},{"startTime":1334.97,"endTime":1337.19,"body":"and is likely to be"},{"startTime":1334.97,"endTime":1337.19,"body":"important I would argue"},{"startTime":1337.19,"endTime":1340.59,"body":"in any future public inquiry"},{"startTime":1337.19,"endTime":1340.59,"body":"into the coronavirus pandemic"},{"startTime":1340.59,"endTime":1341.873,"body":"and its effects."},{"startTime":1343.16,"endTime":1346.78,"body":"My third variety is deception"},{"startTime":1346.78,"endTime":1349.883,"body":"by manipulating social identities."},{"startTime":1350.86,"endTime":1352.21,"body":"For these kinds of strategies"},{"startTime":1352.21,"endTime":1353.83,"body":"I've talked about so far to work,"},{"startTime":1353.83,"endTime":1357.23,"body":"they need to operate"},{"startTime":1353.83,"endTime":1357.23,"body":"in a favorable context."},{"startTime":1357.23,"endTime":1360.4,"body":"And earlier I briefly"},{"startTime":1357.23,"endTime":1360.4,"body":"mentioned Dan Kahan's theory"},{"startTime":1360.4,"endTime":1365.4,"body":"of identity protective"},{"startTime":1360.4,"endTime":1365.4,"body":"cognition, tribe over truth."},{"startTime":1365.84,"endTime":1369.09,"body":"Individuals tend to"},{"startTime":1365.84,"endTime":1369.09,"body":"process information in ways"},{"startTime":1369.09,"endTime":1372.79,"body":"that help them maintain"},{"startTime":1369.09,"endTime":1372.79,"body":"status, a sense of belonging,"},{"startTime":1372.79,"endTime":1375.43,"body":"and their social and political identity."},{"startTime":1375.43,"endTime":1378.01,"body":"They resist information that contradicts"},{"startTime":1378.01,"endTime":1380.76,"body":"the dominant beliefs"},{"startTime":1378.01,"endTime":1380.76,"body":"of their social tribe."},{"startTime":1380.76,"endTime":1383.44,"body":"We're all susceptible to this."},{"startTime":1383.44,"endTime":1388.44,"body":"But by recognizing this bias,"},{"startTime":1383.44,"endTime":1388.44,"body":"elites can over time increase"},{"startTime":1388.47,"endTime":1392.95,"body":"the circulation of false signals,"},{"startTime":1388.47,"endTime":1392.95,"body":"about how one social group"},{"startTime":1392.95,"endTime":1396.0,"body":"in society, is supposedly threatened"},{"startTime":1396.0,"endTime":1398.84,"body":"by another social group."},{"startTime":1398.84,"endTime":1402.41,"body":"Leaders can exaggerate what"},{"startTime":1398.84,"endTime":1402.41,"body":"we call in social psychology"},{"startTime":1402.41,"endTime":1404.44,"body":"out group threats."},{"startTime":1404.44,"endTime":1406.58,"body":"The fear of the other."},{"startTime":1406.58,"endTime":1408.67,"body":"So for example in the United States,"},{"startTime":1408.67,"endTime":1412.51,"body":"many conservative Republican"},{"startTime":1408.67,"endTime":1412.51,"body":"politicians have long traded"},{"startTime":1412.51,"endTime":1416.09,"body":"in signals, of threats"},{"startTime":1412.51,"endTime":1416.09,"body":"from ethnic minority"},{"startTime":1416.09,"endTime":1418.18,"body":"and immigrant communities,"},{"startTime":1418.18,"endTime":1422.73,"body":"as a way to encourage"},{"startTime":1418.18,"endTime":1422.73,"body":"white in group identity,"},{"startTime":1422.73,"endTime":1425.07,"body":"from which they benefit"},{"startTime":1422.73,"endTime":1425.07,"body":"politically in certain parts"},{"startTime":1425.07,"endTime":1425.913,"body":"of the country."},{"startTime":1426.97,"endTime":1430.11,"body":"But this strategy of"},{"startTime":1426.97,"endTime":1430.11,"body":"manipulating signals to reinforce"},{"startTime":1430.11,"endTime":1434.57,"body":"identity and divisions, has"},{"startTime":1430.11,"endTime":1434.57,"body":"been used recently in a far more"},{"startTime":1434.57,"endTime":1438.83,"body":"surprising way, because the Russian state"},{"startTime":1438.83,"endTime":1441.84,"body":"via its internet research agency,"},{"startTime":1441.84,"endTime":1444.81,"body":"used it during its campaign"},{"startTime":1441.84,"endTime":1444.81,"body":"of online interference"},{"startTime":1444.81,"endTime":1447.79,"body":"in the 2016 presidential election."},{"startTime":1447.79,"endTime":1449.823,"body":"So I'll show you that now."},{"startTime":1451.09,"endTime":1455.01,"body":"So the Russian state operatives"},{"startTime":1451.09,"endTime":1455.01,"body":"recognized the importance"},{"startTime":1455.01,"endTime":1458.3,"body":"of stimulating engagement"},{"startTime":1455.01,"endTime":1458.3,"body":"through social media behavior,"},{"startTime":1458.3,"endTime":1461.43,"body":"such as clicks, likes, and retweets."},{"startTime":1461.43,"endTime":1465.15,"body":"And much of this relied on"},{"startTime":1461.43,"endTime":1465.15,"body":"reinforcing social divisions"},{"startTime":1465.15,"endTime":1468.66,"body":"between different social"},{"startTime":1465.15,"endTime":1468.66,"body":"groups in US society."},{"startTime":1468.66,"endTime":1473.05,"body":"Between 2015 and 2017, the"},{"startTime":1468.66,"endTime":1473.05,"body":"numbers are staggering."},{"startTime":1473.05,"endTime":1476.66,"body":"31 million US Facebook users shared"},{"startTime":1476.66,"endTime":1479.57,"body":"the Russian Internet"},{"startTime":1476.66,"endTime":1479.57,"body":"Research Agency's Facebook,"},{"startTime":1479.57,"endTime":1483.2,"body":"and Instagram posts with"},{"startTime":1479.57,"endTime":1483.2,"body":"their social media networks."},{"startTime":1483.2,"endTime":1487.93,"body":"These posts were liked, clicked"},{"startTime":1483.2,"endTime":1487.93,"body":"on like, almost 30 million,"},{"startTime":1487.93,"endTime":1491.74,"body":"39 million times, and"},{"startTime":1487.93,"endTime":1491.74,"body":"received emoji reactions,"},{"startTime":1491.74,"endTime":1493.8,"body":"about five and a half million times."},{"startTime":1493.8,"endTime":1496.76,"body":"And generated three and"},{"startTime":1493.8,"endTime":1496.76,"body":"a half million comments."},{"startTime":1496.76,"endTime":1501.53,"body":"The Instagram posts alone"},{"startTime":1496.76,"endTime":1501.53,"body":"received 185 million likes,"},{"startTime":1501.53,"endTime":1502.88,"body":"and 4 million comments."},{"startTime":1502.88,"endTime":1504.94,"body":"All of these data by the way,"},{"startTime":1504.94,"endTime":1508.66,"body":"come from the US Congress investigation."},{"startTime":1508.66,"endTime":1510.16,"body":"This is deception."},{"startTime":1510.16,"endTime":1512.69,"body":"There's intention, interactive process"},{"startTime":1512.69,"endTime":1513.83,"body":"and behavioral outcomes."},{"startTime":1513.83,"endTime":1518.54,"body":"People sharing, clicking, liking,"},{"startTime":1513.83,"endTime":1518.54,"body":"smiling emojis, et cetera."},{"startTime":1518.54,"endTime":1520.38,"body":"I could go into far"},{"startTime":1518.54,"endTime":1520.38,"body":"more detail about this,"},{"startTime":1520.38,"endTime":1523.34,"body":"and I'm happy to answer"},{"startTime":1520.38,"endTime":1523.34,"body":"questions in Q and A if you like."},{"startTime":1523.34,"endTime":1526.41,"body":"But in the interest of time"},{"startTime":1523.34,"endTime":1526.41,"body":"I'll move on to some examples."},{"startTime":1526.41,"endTime":1528.93,"body":"So these are some examples"},{"startTime":1526.41,"endTime":1528.93,"body":"of the social media posts"},{"startTime":1528.93,"endTime":1531.68,"body":"that the Russian Internet Research Agency,"},{"startTime":1531.68,"endTime":1534.0,"body":"posted onto Instagram and Facebook."},{"startTime":1534.0,"endTime":1538.39,"body":"Those themes, religion, American identity,"},{"startTime":1538.39,"endTime":1542.96,"body":"but also black American identity as well."},{"startTime":1542.96,"endTime":1545.76,"body":"The themes on social media"},{"startTime":1542.96,"endTime":1545.76,"body":"were incredibly diverse."},{"startTime":1545.76,"endTime":1548.46,"body":"Pro left, pro right, politically."},{"startTime":1548.46,"endTime":1553.46,"body":"Religion, misogyny, racism,"},{"startTime":1548.46,"endTime":1553.46,"body":"pro black, pro LGBT,"},{"startTime":1553.76,"endTime":1555.44,"body":"anti-immigrant."},{"startTime":1555.44,"endTime":1557.44,"body":"These themes were carefully chosen"},{"startTime":1557.44,"endTime":1561.11,"body":"to increase political"},{"startTime":1557.44,"endTime":1561.11,"body":"division, and to fire people up"},{"startTime":1561.11,"endTime":1563.68,"body":"to activate that tribe over truth,"},{"startTime":1563.68,"endTime":1567.623,"body":"and to pit groups against each"},{"startTime":1563.68,"endTime":1567.623,"body":"other in American society."},{"startTime":1569.4,"endTime":1572.99,"body":"So that reinforcing or"},{"startTime":1569.4,"endTime":1572.99,"body":"manipulating social identities"},{"startTime":1572.99,"endTime":1575.09,"body":"can be used, not just in the ways"},{"startTime":1575.09,"endTime":1577.383,"body":"that you'd expect in mainstream politics."},{"startTime":1578.49,"endTime":1580.31,"body":"My fourth variety,"},{"startTime":1580.31,"endTime":1584.05,"body":"again goes a bit deeper"},{"startTime":1580.31,"endTime":1584.05,"body":"into how all of this works,"},{"startTime":1584.05,"endTime":1586.513,"body":"what makes the context work?"},{"startTime":1587.53,"endTime":1590.48,"body":"So if increasing false"},{"startTime":1587.53,"endTime":1590.48,"body":"signals about threats"},{"startTime":1590.48,"endTime":1592.54,"body":"can deceive people, and then influence"},{"startTime":1592.54,"endTime":1595.69,"body":"their behavior online, how does this work?"},{"startTime":1595.69,"endTime":1599.51,"body":"An important one is what"},{"startTime":1595.69,"endTime":1599.51,"body":"researchers call fluency."},{"startTime":1599.51,"endTime":1602.17,"body":"And I'll explain this because"},{"startTime":1599.51,"endTime":1602.17,"body":"it's not as straightforward"},{"startTime":1602.17,"endTime":1603.79,"body":"as it seems."},{"startTime":1603.79,"endTime":1608.763,"body":"Fluency is a sense of how"},{"startTime":1603.79,"endTime":1608.763,"body":"we feel when we think."},{"startTime":1609.99,"endTime":1612.75,"body":"So if you imagine when"},{"startTime":1609.99,"endTime":1612.75,"body":"you've got new information"},{"startTime":1612.75,"endTime":1616.09,"body":"to process, you're doing"},{"startTime":1612.75,"endTime":1616.09,"body":"it at the cognitive level,"},{"startTime":1616.09,"endTime":1617.68,"body":"you're trying to make"},{"startTime":1616.09,"endTime":1617.68,"body":"sense of the information,"},{"startTime":1617.68,"endTime":1622.11,"body":"but it also has an emotional"},{"startTime":1617.68,"endTime":1622.11,"body":"impact on you that matters."},{"startTime":1622.11,"endTime":1627.0,"body":"Because how we feel about a"},{"startTime":1622.11,"endTime":1627.0,"body":"task comes to shape our approach"},{"startTime":1627.0,"endTime":1629.49,"body":"to making sense of the task,"},{"startTime":1629.49,"endTime":1632.463,"body":"which in this case is"},{"startTime":1629.49,"endTime":1632.463,"body":"processing new information."},{"startTime":1633.35,"endTime":1635.35,"body":"If we find a task difficult,"},{"startTime":1635.35,"endTime":1638.51,"body":"processing information that"},{"startTime":1635.35,"endTime":1638.51,"body":"we haven't encountered before,"},{"startTime":1638.51,"endTime":1641.4,"body":"we'll associate the task"},{"startTime":1638.51,"endTime":1641.4,"body":"with negative feelings,"},{"startTime":1641.4,"endTime":1644.513,"body":"and mentally flag the"},{"startTime":1641.4,"endTime":1644.513,"body":"information for further scrutiny."},{"startTime":1645.78,"endTime":1648.99,"body":"The flip side of this is when"},{"startTime":1645.78,"endTime":1648.99,"body":"we find processing information"},{"startTime":1648.99,"endTime":1652.81,"body":"easy, because we've"},{"startTime":1648.99,"endTime":1652.81,"body":"encountered it before perhaps,"},{"startTime":1652.81,"endTime":1656.72,"body":"we're more likely to hold"},{"startTime":1652.81,"endTime":1656.72,"body":"positive feelings toward the task."},{"startTime":1656.72,"endTime":1659.14,"body":"And we are more likely,"},{"startTime":1656.72,"endTime":1659.14,"body":"and this is the key point,"},{"startTime":1659.14,"endTime":1663.57,"body":"to accept the information"},{"startTime":1659.14,"endTime":1663.57,"body":"even if it's false."},{"startTime":1663.57,"endTime":1667.87,"body":"So repeated exposure to"},{"startTime":1663.57,"endTime":1667.87,"body":"information over time,"},{"startTime":1667.87,"endTime":1670.98,"body":"increases our sense of fluency"},{"startTime":1670.98,"endTime":1673.92,"body":"because we feel more comfortable"},{"startTime":1670.98,"endTime":1673.92,"body":"with the information,"},{"startTime":1673.92,"endTime":1678.07,"body":"and therefore it increases our credulity,"},{"startTime":1678.07,"endTime":1680.95,"body":"the extent to which"},{"startTime":1678.07,"endTime":1680.95,"body":"we'll believe something."},{"startTime":1680.95,"endTime":1683.63,"body":"Now this is the so-called"},{"startTime":1680.95,"endTime":1683.63,"body":"illusory truth effect."},{"startTime":1683.63,"endTime":1686.43,"body":"And it was first established"},{"startTime":1683.63,"endTime":1686.43,"body":"in the Second World War."},{"startTime":1686.43,"endTime":1690.28,"body":"It goes back a long way,"},{"startTime":1686.43,"endTime":1690.28,"body":"when social psychologists"},{"startTime":1690.28,"endTime":1692.78,"body":"did some early studies of"},{"startTime":1690.28,"endTime":1692.78,"body":"the diffusion of rumors"},{"startTime":1692.78,"endTime":1693.943,"body":"during war time."},{"startTime":1694.96,"endTime":1697.17,"body":"Repeated exposure to false information"},{"startTime":1697.17,"endTime":1702.17,"body":"reduces people's ethical dilemmas"},{"startTime":1697.17,"endTime":1702.17,"body":"about sharing it as well."},{"startTime":1702.21,"endTime":1705.26,"body":"So it's not just that we"},{"startTime":1702.21,"endTime":1705.26,"body":"feel comfortable with it."},{"startTime":1705.26,"endTime":1707.33,"body":"We're also more likely to share it."},{"startTime":1707.33,"endTime":1711.92,"body":"We think either intuitively,"},{"startTime":1707.33,"endTime":1711.92,"body":"or incorrectly in this case."},{"startTime":1711.92,"endTime":1713.76,"body":"We perceive that the false information"},{"startTime":1713.76,"endTime":1715.61,"body":"has a ring of truth about it,"},{"startTime":1715.61,"endTime":1718.68,"body":"so it's okay to share it"},{"startTime":1715.61,"endTime":1718.68,"body":"or it's already out there."},{"startTime":1718.68,"endTime":1721.15,"body":"So it's okay to share it."},{"startTime":1721.15,"endTime":1723.81,"body":"So you feel you have an"},{"startTime":1721.15,"endTime":1723.81,"body":"ethical license to share it."},{"startTime":1723.81,"endTime":1726.69,"body":"If you think about it,"},{"startTime":1723.81,"endTime":1726.69,"body":"this is how gossip works."},{"startTime":1726.69,"endTime":1729.94,"body":"But the elusory truth effect"},{"startTime":1726.69,"endTime":1729.94,"body":"also creates opportunities"},{"startTime":1729.94,"endTime":1733.49,"body":"for deceivers, to create false impressions"},{"startTime":1733.49,"endTime":1736.74,"body":"of other people's beliefs and actions."},{"startTime":1736.74,"endTime":1739.84,"body":"So repeatedly exposing"},{"startTime":1736.74,"endTime":1739.84,"body":"people to false information"},{"startTime":1739.84,"endTime":1744.27,"body":"can increase its acceptance"},{"startTime":1739.84,"endTime":1744.27,"body":"and stimulate people to act."},{"startTime":1744.27,"endTime":1746.5,"body":"So examples of this abound online"},{"startTime":1746.5,"endTime":1748.72,"body":"from so-called astroturfing,"},{"startTime":1748.72,"endTime":1751.44,"body":"where you create fake campaigns online,"},{"startTime":1751.44,"endTime":1754.76,"body":"in order to generate"},{"startTime":1751.44,"endTime":1754.76,"body":"enthusiasm around a product"},{"startTime":1754.76,"endTime":1757.103,"body":"or a politician or a particular cause."},{"startTime":1758.07,"endTime":1759.86,"body":"To so-called sock puppets,"},{"startTime":1759.86,"endTime":1763.05,"body":"the creation of multiple fake"},{"startTime":1759.86,"endTime":1763.05,"body":"accounts, which as I say,"},{"startTime":1763.05,"endTime":1764.9,"body":"the Russians have done"},{"startTime":1763.05,"endTime":1764.9,"body":"a lot of over the years,"},{"startTime":1764.9,"endTime":1767.65,"body":"but then far from the only ones."},{"startTime":1767.65,"endTime":1769.23,"body":"What these methods exploit"},{"startTime":1769.23,"endTime":1773.65,"body":"are online recommendation technologies,"},{"startTime":1773.65,"endTime":1777.22,"body":"which is what we call"},{"startTime":1773.65,"endTime":1777.22,"body":"social endorsement queues."},{"startTime":1777.22,"endTime":1779.51,"body":"So if you write a good"},{"startTime":1777.22,"endTime":1779.51,"body":"review for a product"},{"startTime":1779.51,"endTime":1782.64,"body":"or you sort of like one"},{"startTime":1779.51,"endTime":1782.64,"body":"of Boris Johnson's tweets,"},{"startTime":1782.64,"endTime":1786.23,"body":"or you put a smiling emoji on something"},{"startTime":1786.23,"endTime":1791.23,"body":"that your local councilors"},{"startTime":1786.23,"endTime":1791.23,"body":"tweets online or whatever."},{"startTime":1791.5,"endTime":1793.28,"body":"That's an endorsement cue."},{"startTime":1793.28,"endTime":1796.98,"body":"You're doing it because you"},{"startTime":1793.28,"endTime":1796.98,"body":"want to send a signal to others,"},{"startTime":1796.98,"endTime":1801.98,"body":"about your opinion of that"},{"startTime":1796.98,"endTime":1801.98,"body":"particular act or utterance."},{"startTime":1802.04,"endTime":1805.33,"body":"But the problem is, is that"},{"startTime":1802.04,"endTime":1805.33,"body":"in today's media systems,"},{"startTime":1805.33,"endTime":1809.01,"body":"these endorsement cues are super important"},{"startTime":1809.01,"endTime":1812.61,"body":"for how people make decisions"},{"startTime":1809.01,"endTime":1812.61,"body":"in many different areas"},{"startTime":1812.61,"endTime":1814.42,"body":"of their lives."},{"startTime":1814.42,"endTime":1817.34,"body":"So over the last two"},{"startTime":1814.42,"endTime":1817.34,"body":"years I've been an advisor"},{"startTime":1817.34,"endTime":1822.09,"body":"to the department for"},{"startTime":1817.34,"endTime":1822.09,"body":"digital media and sport,"},{"startTime":1822.09,"endTime":1825.9,"body":"on issues such as"},{"startTime":1822.09,"endTime":1825.9,"body":"disinformation and fake news."},{"startTime":1825.9,"endTime":1829.08,"body":"And one of the things that"},{"startTime":1825.9,"endTime":1829.08,"body":"we've talked about for instance"},{"startTime":1829.08,"endTime":1832.04,"body":"in relation to the issue"},{"startTime":1829.08,"endTime":1832.04,"body":"of vaccine hesitancy"},{"startTime":1832.04,"endTime":1834.26,"body":"toward coronavirus vaccines,"},{"startTime":1834.26,"endTime":1837.64,"body":"is how we can use social endorsement"},{"startTime":1837.64,"endTime":1839.3,"body":"to encourage more people,"},{"startTime":1839.3,"endTime":1841.9,"body":"to learn about the vaccines,"},{"startTime":1839.3,"endTime":1841.9,"body":"and take the vaccines up"},{"startTime":1841.9,"endTime":1845.46,"body":"because they're really effective"},{"startTime":1841.9,"endTime":1845.46,"body":"measure for public health."},{"startTime":1845.46,"endTime":1849.0,"body":"But we're fighting, and DCMS"},{"startTime":1845.46,"endTime":1849.0,"body":"is always fighting this battle."},{"startTime":1849.0,"endTime":1850.77,"body":"And it's there in the online safety build"},{"startTime":1850.77,"endTime":1852.69,"body":"that is going through"},{"startTime":1850.77,"endTime":1852.69,"body":"parliament right now,"},{"startTime":1852.69,"endTime":1856.37,"body":"about the fakery that's"},{"startTime":1852.69,"endTime":1856.37,"body":"involved in the online world"},{"startTime":1856.37,"endTime":1858.75,"body":"where these kinds of"},{"startTime":1856.37,"endTime":1858.75,"body":"social endorsement queues"},{"startTime":1858.75,"endTime":1859.7,"body":"can be hijacked."},{"startTime":1859.7,"endTime":1861.67,"body":"Whether it's fake reviews for products,"},{"startTime":1861.67,"endTime":1866.67,"body":"all the way up to politicians"},{"startTime":1861.67,"endTime":1866.67,"body":"deliberately using armies"},{"startTime":1867.17,"endTime":1870.11,"body":"of supporters on social"},{"startTime":1867.17,"endTime":1870.11,"body":"media that are based"},{"startTime":1870.11,"endTime":1871.61,"body":"on fake accounts."},{"startTime":1871.61,"endTime":1873.78,"body":"So with that in mind,"},{"startTime":1873.78,"endTime":1878.71,"body":"I will turn to my final"},{"startTime":1873.78,"endTime":1878.71,"body":"variety of deception."},{"startTime":1878.71,"endTime":1881.58,"body":"That again builds on what I've just said."},{"startTime":1881.58,"endTime":1885.51,"body":"And this is manipulating"},{"startTime":1881.58,"endTime":1885.51,"body":"source credibility."},{"startTime":1885.51,"endTime":1887.05,"body":"Now you might be thinking, oh,"},{"startTime":1887.05,"endTime":1889.56,"body":"I'm not going to be taken"},{"startTime":1887.05,"endTime":1889.56,"body":"in by these techniques."},{"startTime":1889.56,"endTime":1891.14,"body":"I can spot a fake review."},{"startTime":1891.14,"endTime":1893.333,"body":"I know when the tweet's not real."},{"startTime":1894.58,"endTime":1897.41,"body":"Because you use trustworthy"},{"startTime":1894.58,"endTime":1897.41,"body":"sources of information."},{"startTime":1897.41,"endTime":1900.16,"body":"You think, oh no, I spend a lot"},{"startTime":1897.41,"endTime":1900.16,"body":"of time looking at BBC News."},{"startTime":1900.16,"endTime":1902.173,"body":"I'm well informed about the world."},{"startTime":1903.1,"endTime":1904.663,"body":"You're absolutely right."},{"startTime":1905.8,"endTime":1907.66,"body":"The person, the organization,"},{"startTime":1907.66,"endTime":1910.26,"body":"the channel through which"},{"startTime":1907.66,"endTime":1910.26,"body":"messages are conveyed."},{"startTime":1910.26,"endTime":1912.4,"body":"We know that those things"},{"startTime":1910.26,"endTime":1912.4,"body":"are really important"},{"startTime":1912.4,"endTime":1914.28,"body":"for people's judgements."},{"startTime":1914.28,"endTime":1917.74,"body":"But the problem, and"},{"startTime":1914.28,"endTime":1917.74,"body":"this is the key problem,"},{"startTime":1917.74,"endTime":1920.4,"body":"is that as media technologies have changed"},{"startTime":1920.4,"endTime":1924.453,"body":"how we judge the credibility"},{"startTime":1920.4,"endTime":1924.453,"body":"of sources has also changed."},{"startTime":1925.41,"endTime":1928.45,"body":"And the credibility of a"},{"startTime":1925.41,"endTime":1928.45,"body":"source can be manufactured"},{"startTime":1928.45,"endTime":1931.633,"body":"in various new ways"},{"startTime":1928.45,"endTime":1931.633,"body":"that lead to deception."},{"startTime":1932.84,"endTime":1936.69,"body":"So broadly speaking, most"},{"startTime":1932.84,"endTime":1936.69,"body":"people in British society"},{"startTime":1936.69,"endTime":1939.49,"body":"still think that established"},{"startTime":1936.69,"endTime":1939.49,"body":"news organizations"},{"startTime":1939.49,"endTime":1942.41,"body":"that have editors, such"},{"startTime":1939.49,"endTime":1942.41,"body":"as the New York Times,"},{"startTime":1942.41,"endTime":1946.82,"body":"or The Guardian, or the"},{"startTime":1942.41,"endTime":1946.82,"body":"BBC, are trustworthy."},{"startTime":1946.82,"endTime":1950.32,"body":"However, when a news"},{"startTime":1946.82,"endTime":1950.32,"body":"organization isn't well known"},{"startTime":1950.32,"endTime":1953.95,"body":"or established, studies"},{"startTime":1950.32,"endTime":1953.95,"body":"have shown that other kinds"},{"startTime":1953.95,"endTime":1957.61,"body":"of cues that are unique to online news,"},{"startTime":1957.61,"endTime":1961.73,"body":"become more important for"},{"startTime":1957.61,"endTime":1961.73,"body":"how we judge credibility."},{"startTime":1961.73,"endTime":1965.35,"body":"And these cues can convince"},{"startTime":1961.73,"endTime":1965.35,"body":"audiences that new stories"},{"startTime":1965.35,"endTime":1968.34,"body":"are credible, even if they're not."},{"startTime":1968.34,"endTime":1971.26,"body":"So one example is so called recency cues."},{"startTime":1971.26,"endTime":1974.779,"body":"So something that signals,"},{"startTime":1971.26,"endTime":1974.779,"body":"such as the time of an article"},{"startTime":1974.779,"endTime":1977.72,"body":"on a website, something"},{"startTime":1974.779,"endTime":1977.72,"body":"that signals how recent"},{"startTime":1977.72,"endTime":1979.23,"body":"the article is."},{"startTime":1979.23,"endTime":1982.58,"body":"They matter for how"},{"startTime":1979.23,"endTime":1982.58,"body":"seriously people will treat"},{"startTime":1982.58,"endTime":1984.42,"body":"the news story."},{"startTime":1984.42,"endTime":1986.25,"body":"Popularity cues."},{"startTime":1986.25,"endTime":1987.72,"body":"Our old friend, the likes,"},{"startTime":1987.72,"endTime":1989.83,"body":"the retweets, the smiling emojis."},{"startTime":1989.83,"endTime":1991.47,"body":"They matter as well."},{"startTime":1991.47,"endTime":1995.67,"body":"But so too do comments"},{"startTime":1991.47,"endTime":1995.67,"body":"underneath the news article."},{"startTime":1995.67,"endTime":1999.04,"body":"Multiple comments on a news"},{"startTime":1995.67,"endTime":1999.04,"body":"article can affect how people"},{"startTime":1999.04,"endTime":2000.78,"body":"perceive its credibility."},{"startTime":2000.78,"endTime":2003.2,"body":"Experiments in media and"},{"startTime":2000.78,"endTime":2003.2,"body":"communication research,"},{"startTime":2003.2,"endTime":2005.62,"body":"going back 10 years have showed this."},{"startTime":2005.62,"endTime":2008.96,"body":"Negative comments are particularly"},{"startTime":2005.62,"endTime":2008.96,"body":"powerful for some reason."},{"startTime":2008.96,"endTime":2011.6,"body":"They tend to undermine the credibility,"},{"startTime":2011.6,"endTime":2013.52,"body":"of perfectly credible stories written"},{"startTime":2013.52,"endTime":2015.693,"body":"by perfectly credible journalists."},{"startTime":2017.06,"endTime":2019.07,"body":"So of course this opens up opportunities"},{"startTime":2019.07,"endTime":2021.04,"body":"for people to organize themselves,"},{"startTime":2021.04,"endTime":2025.0,"body":"to manipulate these"},{"startTime":2021.04,"endTime":2025.0,"body":"contexts, to signal to others"},{"startTime":2025.0,"endTime":2028.04,"body":"in ways that undermine the"},{"startTime":2025.0,"endTime":2028.04,"body":"credibility of messages"},{"startTime":2028.04,"endTime":2030.8,"body":"that they don't agree with,"},{"startTime":2028.04,"endTime":2030.8,"body":"or they want to undermine"},{"startTime":2030.8,"endTime":2032.353,"body":"for political reasons."},{"startTime":2033.5,"endTime":2036.99,"body":"The way that news organizations"},{"startTime":2033.5,"endTime":2036.99,"body":"gather their sources,"},{"startTime":2036.99,"endTime":2039.9,"body":"has also changed dramatically"},{"startTime":2036.99,"endTime":2039.9,"body":"over recent years."},{"startTime":2039.9,"endTime":2041.24,"body":"Perhaps there's one or two journalists"},{"startTime":2041.24,"endTime":2042.94,"body":"in the room who knows."},{"startTime":2042.94,"endTime":2047.38,"body":"News organizations now"},{"startTime":2042.94,"endTime":2047.38,"body":"routinely use online sources,"},{"startTime":2047.38,"endTime":2051.13,"body":"particularly social media"},{"startTime":2047.38,"endTime":2051.13,"body":"posts in their storytelling."},{"startTime":2051.13,"endTime":2053.7,"body":"But the problem is, that"},{"startTime":2051.13,"endTime":2053.7,"body":"this makes journalists"},{"startTime":2053.7,"endTime":2058.7,"body":"and indirectly us, more"},{"startTime":2053.7,"endTime":2058.7,"body":"vulnerable to deception."},{"startTime":2058.73,"endTime":2061.12,"body":"A source can be believed to be credible"},{"startTime":2061.12,"endTime":2063.649,"body":"by multiple news outlets, full editors"},{"startTime":2063.649,"endTime":2067.97,"body":"of those organizations, and"},{"startTime":2063.649,"endTime":2067.97,"body":"then be accepted by audiences,"},{"startTime":2067.97,"endTime":2072.53,"body":"that believe the news organization"},{"startTime":2067.97,"endTime":2072.53,"body":"itself to be trustworthy."},{"startTime":2072.53,"endTime":2073.74,"body":"So to give you an example,"},{"startTime":2073.74,"endTime":2077.06,"body":"some respected news organizations"},{"startTime":2073.74,"endTime":2077.06,"body":"including The Guardian,"},{"startTime":2077.06,"endTime":2079.68,"body":"the New York Times, The Washington Post."},{"startTime":2079.68,"endTime":2082.43,"body":"Big names in news, have unwittingly"},{"startTime":2082.43,"endTime":2084.11,"body":"over the last five years,"},{"startTime":2084.11,"endTime":2089.11,"body":"embedded fabricated social"},{"startTime":2084.11,"endTime":2089.11,"body":"media posts particularly tweets,"},{"startTime":2090.4,"endTime":2093.833,"body":"as vox pop quotes in their stories,"},{"startTime":2095.49,"endTime":2099.88,"body":"in order to add a bit of color"},{"startTime":2095.49,"endTime":2099.88,"body":"or add a bit of interest."},{"startTime":2099.88,"endTime":2101.96,"body":"It's the equivalent of"},{"startTime":2099.88,"endTime":2101.96,"body":"walking down the street"},{"startTime":2101.96,"endTime":2104.63,"body":"and asking somebody what"},{"startTime":2101.96,"endTime":2104.63,"body":"they think about inflation"},{"startTime":2104.63,"endTime":2105.463,"body":"or whatever."},{"startTime":2105.463,"endTime":2108.23,"body":"And journalists have long used vox pops."},{"startTime":2108.23,"endTime":2110.32,"body":"But when they're online and"},{"startTime":2108.23,"endTime":2110.32,"body":"they're super accessible"},{"startTime":2110.32,"endTime":2113.42,"body":"and super convenient, and there is a norm"},{"startTime":2113.42,"endTime":2115.93,"body":"that they should be embedded"},{"startTime":2113.42,"endTime":2115.93,"body":"in new stories from now on,"},{"startTime":2115.93,"endTime":2117.873,"body":"that creates vulnerabilities."},{"startTime":2119.55,"endTime":2123.23,"body":"In 2020 freelance journalists"},{"startTime":2119.55,"endTime":2123.23,"body":"were unwitting recruits"},{"startTime":2123.23,"endTime":2126.22,"body":"to yet another Russian state"},{"startTime":2123.23,"endTime":2126.22,"body":"disinformation campaign"},{"startTime":2126.22,"endTime":2130.21,"body":"that was revealed by the"},{"startTime":2126.22,"endTime":2130.21,"body":"organization Graphika, in the US."},{"startTime":2130.21,"endTime":2135.21,"body":"The Russian state had"},{"startTime":2130.21,"endTime":2135.21,"body":"seeded false news stories"},{"startTime":2135.27,"endTime":2138.593,"body":"into left wing Facebook"},{"startTime":2135.27,"endTime":2138.593,"body":"groups in the US, in the UK."},{"startTime":2139.49,"endTime":2143.01,"body":"They'd hired journalists,"},{"startTime":2139.49,"endTime":2143.01,"body":"freelance journalists,"},{"startTime":2143.01,"endTime":2147.12,"body":"to write the stories,"},{"startTime":2143.01,"endTime":2147.12,"body":"they'd paid them to do it."},{"startTime":2147.12,"endTime":2149.667,"body":"And then they said, \"We"},{"startTime":2147.12,"endTime":2149.667,"body":"want you to post them"},{"startTime":2149.667,"endTime":2153.967,"body":"\"into Facebook groups, to"},{"startTime":2149.667,"endTime":2153.967,"body":"try and spread fake ideas"},{"startTime":2153.967,"endTime":2157.027,"body":"\"around the war in Syria, Afghanistan,"},{"startTime":2157.027,"endTime":2159.177,"body":"\"all kinds of different causes.\""},{"startTime":2160.07,"endTime":2162.46,"body":"So the key point here"},{"startTime":2160.07,"endTime":2162.46,"body":"is that online deceivers"},{"startTime":2162.46,"endTime":2166.06,"body":"can quickly adapt their"},{"startTime":2162.46,"endTime":2166.06,"body":"tactics to the context now."},{"startTime":2166.06,"endTime":2167.61,"body":"And the cues that journalists"},{"startTime":2167.61,"endTime":2172.61,"body":"and we look for when we are"},{"startTime":2167.61,"endTime":2172.61,"body":"encountering important events,"},{"startTime":2173.74,"endTime":2175.59,"body":"make us more vulnerable."},{"startTime":2175.59,"endTime":2177.53,"body":"So all of these things can be faked."},{"startTime":2177.53,"endTime":2180.19,"body":"And the deception in these"},{"startTime":2177.53,"endTime":2180.19,"body":"cases, in some of the cases"},{"startTime":2180.19,"endTime":2182.29,"body":"happens when a credible news organization,"},{"startTime":2182.29,"endTime":2185.203,"body":"unwittingly reports false information."},{"startTime":2187.57,"endTime":2189.52,"body":"So I want to turn now to the issue"},{"startTime":2189.52,"endTime":2192.163,"body":"of why does deception undermine democracy?"},{"startTime":2194.02,"endTime":2196.03,"body":"Hopefully by now you'll have an idea"},{"startTime":2196.03,"endTime":2198.203,"body":"of some of the varieties of deception."},{"startTime":2199.2,"endTime":2204.2,"body":"And I want to think about this"},{"startTime":2199.2,"endTime":2204.2,"body":"impact on democracy briefly,"},{"startTime":2204.29,"endTime":2205.43,"body":"in two ways."},{"startTime":2205.43,"endTime":2207.27,"body":"The first is direct."},{"startTime":2207.27,"endTime":2209.023,"body":"The second is indirect."},{"startTime":2210.25,"endTime":2212.98,"body":"The first set of impacts"},{"startTime":2210.25,"endTime":2212.98,"body":"are the direct impacts."},{"startTime":2212.98,"endTime":2217.98,"body":"So deception can undermine"},{"startTime":2212.98,"endTime":2217.98,"body":"individual or group interests."},{"startTime":2218.84,"endTime":2219.93,"body":"Straightforward."},{"startTime":2219.93,"endTime":2223.49,"body":"If you are deceived, you can't"},{"startTime":2219.93,"endTime":2223.49,"body":"act with full rationality,"},{"startTime":2223.49,"endTime":2225.903,"body":"and push for your interest"},{"startTime":2223.49,"endTime":2225.903,"body":"in the public sphere."},{"startTime":2226.84,"endTime":2230.7,"body":"Can also undermine the"},{"startTime":2226.84,"endTime":2230.7,"body":"capacity for all of us"},{"startTime":2230.7,"endTime":2234.42,"body":"to act as effective citizens."},{"startTime":2234.42,"endTime":2236.81,"body":"I'll say a little bit"},{"startTime":2234.42,"endTime":2236.81,"body":"more about that shortly,"},{"startTime":2236.81,"endTime":2239.36,"body":"because it's not always a question"},{"startTime":2239.36,"endTime":2241.41,"body":"of directly being deceived."},{"startTime":2241.41,"endTime":2243.27,"body":"It's a question of not being able"},{"startTime":2243.27,"endTime":2246.3,"body":"to distinguish true from false."},{"startTime":2246.3,"endTime":2251.05,"body":"And feeling lost in a kind"},{"startTime":2246.3,"endTime":2251.05,"body":"of mess of uncertainty,"},{"startTime":2251.05,"endTime":2253.663,"body":"that I would argue is as important."},{"startTime":2254.77,"endTime":2257.24,"body":"And of course, deception can empower"},{"startTime":2257.24,"endTime":2260.823,"body":"those who benefit disproportionately"},{"startTime":2257.24,"endTime":2260.823,"body":"from its outcomes."},{"startTime":2261.71,"endTime":2264.4,"body":"Deception can also distort public opinion"},{"startTime":2264.4,"endTime":2266.72,"body":"and policy preferences."},{"startTime":2266.72,"endTime":2269.01,"body":"So if it comes up to an important thing"},{"startTime":2269.01,"endTime":2271.161,"body":"such as a referendum, or an election,"},{"startTime":2271.161,"endTime":2275.99,"body":"and there are deceptive"},{"startTime":2271.161,"endTime":2275.99,"body":"political messages circulating,"},{"startTime":2275.99,"endTime":2279.56,"body":"during those important moments"},{"startTime":2275.99,"endTime":2279.56,"body":"that obviously can add up"},{"startTime":2279.56,"endTime":2282.71,"body":"in various complicated ways,"},{"startTime":2279.56,"endTime":2282.71,"body":"to how people make a decision"},{"startTime":2282.71,"endTime":2284.66,"body":"on which way to vote."},{"startTime":2284.66,"endTime":2288.633,"body":"If they're not voting with full awareness,"},{"startTime":2289.5,"endTime":2291.2,"body":"then that can have bad effect"},{"startTime":2291.2,"endTime":2293.367,"body":"because it can distort public opinion,"},{"startTime":2293.367,"endTime":2295.1,"body":"ultimately policy preferences."},{"startTime":2295.1,"endTime":2297.6,"body":"And there are some people who"},{"startTime":2295.1,"endTime":2297.6,"body":"would argue that for instance,"},{"startTime":2297.6,"endTime":2299.67,"body":"Brexit is an example of that."},{"startTime":2299.67,"endTime":2302.36,"body":"I'm not going to go into"},{"startTime":2299.67,"endTime":2302.36,"body":"details about that right now."},{"startTime":2302.36,"endTime":2304.63,"body":"As I mentioned earlier as well,"},{"startTime":2304.63,"endTime":2306.81,"body":"deception can amplify political divisions"},{"startTime":2306.81,"endTime":2308.73,"body":"and it could be used"},{"startTime":2306.81,"endTime":2308.73,"body":"to deliberately amplify"},{"startTime":2308.73,"endTime":2310.653,"body":"political divisions."},{"startTime":2311.64,"endTime":2314.44,"body":"The next point here is"},{"startTime":2311.64,"endTime":2314.44,"body":"that, and I think, again,"},{"startTime":2314.44,"endTime":2315.99,"body":"this is a really tricky one."},{"startTime":2315.99,"endTime":2319.28,"body":"Is that deception can bigot deception."},{"startTime":2319.28,"endTime":2323.21,"body":"Political elites have"},{"startTime":2319.28,"endTime":2323.21,"body":"incentives to mislead others,"},{"startTime":2323.21,"endTime":2326.6,"body":"if they perceive that"},{"startTime":2323.21,"endTime":2326.6,"body":"there's some power advantage"},{"startTime":2326.6,"endTime":2327.92,"body":"to be gained."},{"startTime":2327.92,"endTime":2329.12,"body":"And when this happens,"},{"startTime":2329.12,"endTime":2331.43,"body":"deception can spread as a norm,"},{"startTime":2331.43,"endTime":2336.43,"body":"or just what it takes to win,"},{"startTime":2331.43,"endTime":2336.43,"body":"in the world of politics."},{"startTime":2336.75,"endTime":2339.343,"body":"And that's deeply corrosive I would argue."},{"startTime":2340.95,"endTime":2343.85,"body":"But then there are all"},{"startTime":2340.95,"endTime":2343.85,"body":"kinds of indirect impacts."},{"startTime":2343.85,"endTime":2348.39,"body":"First of all, social norms"},{"startTime":2343.85,"endTime":2348.39,"body":"of verifying evidence"},{"startTime":2348.39,"endTime":2349.9,"body":"can start to erode."},{"startTime":2349.9,"endTime":2353.74,"body":"So consider Donald Trump's"},{"startTime":2349.9,"endTime":2353.74,"body":"strategy of contesting"},{"startTime":2353.74,"endTime":2357.11,"body":"the outcome, of the 2020"},{"startTime":2353.74,"endTime":2357.11,"body":"presidential election"},{"startTime":2357.11,"endTime":2361.17,"body":"on the grounds of false claims"},{"startTime":2357.11,"endTime":2361.17,"body":"that so-called voting fraud,"},{"startTime":2361.17,"endTime":2362.573,"body":"led to his defeat."},{"startTime":2363.81,"endTime":2367.45,"body":"This can erode trust in all"},{"startTime":2363.81,"endTime":2367.45,"body":"kinds of public institutions."},{"startTime":2367.45,"endTime":2371.27,"body":"It can spread cynicism among other elites,"},{"startTime":2371.27,"endTime":2373.34,"body":"but also among the public."},{"startTime":2373.34,"endTime":2375.95,"body":"And it can lead to this"},{"startTime":2373.34,"endTime":2375.95,"body":"culture of what I call"},{"startTime":2375.95,"endTime":2377.3,"body":"a culture of indeterminacy."},{"startTime":2378.27,"endTime":2380.12,"body":"Where distinguishing between truth"},{"startTime":2380.12,"endTime":2382.86,"body":"and falsehood becomes harder,"},{"startTime":2382.86,"endTime":2386.13,"body":"and it leaves us in a state of paralysis."},{"startTime":2386.13,"endTime":2388.46,"body":"One lesson of the past is that when people"},{"startTime":2388.46,"endTime":2391.16,"body":"become uncertain about the"},{"startTime":2388.46,"endTime":2391.16,"body":"status of public facts,"},{"startTime":2391.16,"endTime":2394.12,"body":"they can withdraw into the private sphere."},{"startTime":2394.12,"endTime":2396.517,"body":"They can say, \"Politics that's not for me."},{"startTime":2396.517,"endTime":2398.207,"body":"\"They're all the same, they're all lying."},{"startTime":2398.207,"endTime":2399.36,"body":"\"I don't want to know.\""},{"startTime":2399.36,"endTime":2402.01,"body":"I'm sure we're all aware of"},{"startTime":2399.36,"endTime":2402.01,"body":"these kinds of sentiments."},{"startTime":2402.01,"endTime":2404.01,"body":"But this was an important strand actually"},{"startTime":2404.01,"endTime":2407.66,"body":"of dissident writings, in"},{"startTime":2404.01,"endTime":2407.66,"body":"the Neo-Stalinist states"},{"startTime":2407.66,"endTime":2409.85,"body":"in Eastern Europe during the Cold War."},{"startTime":2409.85,"endTime":2411.87,"body":"Where the concern was"},{"startTime":2409.85,"endTime":2411.87,"body":"not so much that people"},{"startTime":2411.87,"endTime":2414.01,"body":"would be deceived by propaganda,"},{"startTime":2414.01,"endTime":2417.88,"body":"but that they would withdraw"},{"startTime":2414.01,"endTime":2417.88,"body":"from the public sphere."},{"startTime":2417.88,"endTime":2422.47,"body":"And that would give more"},{"startTime":2417.88,"endTime":2422.47,"body":"power to the political class,"},{"startTime":2422.47,"endTime":2425.27,"body":"to go about its own business"},{"startTime":2422.47,"endTime":2425.27,"body":"in a way that it's all fit."},{"startTime":2427.62,"endTime":2431.28,"body":"And finally, when it"},{"startTime":2427.62,"endTime":2431.28,"body":"comes to indirect impacts,"},{"startTime":2431.28,"endTime":2436.23,"body":"media coverage, of course,"},{"startTime":2431.28,"endTime":2436.23,"body":"of the Russian disinformation"},{"startTime":2436.23,"endTime":2440.72,"body":"campaigns during Western"},{"startTime":2436.23,"endTime":2440.72,"body":"elections and during wartime now,"},{"startTime":2440.72,"endTime":2443.93,"body":"that media coverage has"},{"startTime":2440.72,"endTime":2443.93,"body":"probably reached greater numbers"},{"startTime":2443.93,"endTime":2448.363,"body":"than were actually deceived"},{"startTime":2443.93,"endTime":2448.363,"body":"directly by the activity itself."},{"startTime":2449.35,"endTime":2453.61,"body":"So this coverage could lead"},{"startTime":2449.35,"endTime":2453.61,"body":"indirectly to perceptions"},{"startTime":2453.61,"endTime":2456.01,"body":"that elections can't be trusted anymore,"},{"startTime":2456.01,"endTime":2458.56,"body":"because voters have been manipulated."},{"startTime":2458.56,"endTime":2461.963,"body":"And again, that's corrosive"},{"startTime":2458.56,"endTime":2461.963,"body":"of liberal democracy."},{"startTime":2463.19,"endTime":2466.27,"body":"So on that note, before I talk"},{"startTime":2463.19,"endTime":2466.27,"body":"about some broad principles"},{"startTime":2466.27,"endTime":2468.66,"body":"for how we might fight back"},{"startTime":2466.27,"endTime":2468.66,"body":"against this situation,"},{"startTime":2468.66,"endTime":2471.58,"body":"I'll note the thoughts"},{"startTime":2468.66,"endTime":2471.58,"body":"of one of my favorite"},{"startTime":2471.58,"endTime":2473.47,"body":"political theorists, Hannah Arendt,"},{"startTime":2473.47,"endTime":2477.33,"body":"who was so skillful in"},{"startTime":2473.47,"endTime":2477.33,"body":"dissecting the corrosive impact"},{"startTime":2477.33,"endTime":2479.77,"body":"of propaganda and deception."},{"startTime":2479.77,"endTime":2482.89,"body":"She made this point"},{"startTime":2479.77,"endTime":2482.89,"body":"very succinctly in 1974,"},{"startTime":2482.89,"endTime":2486.04,"body":"in an interview with a"},{"startTime":2482.89,"endTime":2486.04,"body":"journalist at the New York Times."},{"startTime":2486.04,"endTime":2488.617,"body":"And she said, \"If everybody lies to you,"},{"startTime":2488.617,"endTime":2491.757,"body":"\"the consequence is not"},{"startTime":2488.617,"endTime":2491.757,"body":"that you believe the lies,"},{"startTime":2491.757,"endTime":2495.187,"body":"\"but rather that nobody"},{"startTime":2491.757,"endTime":2495.187,"body":"believes anything any longer."},{"startTime":2495.187,"endTime":2498.307,"body":"\"A people that no longer"},{"startTime":2495.187,"endTime":2498.307,"body":"can believe anything,"},{"startTime":2498.307,"endTime":2500.217,"body":"\"cannot make up its own mind."},{"startTime":2500.217,"endTime":2503.657,"body":"\"It is deprived not only"},{"startTime":2500.217,"endTime":2503.657,"body":"of its capacity to act,"},{"startTime":2503.657,"endTime":2506.747,"body":"\"but also of its capacity"},{"startTime":2503.657,"endTime":2506.747,"body":"to think and judge."},{"startTime":2506.747,"endTime":2511.11,"body":"\"And with such a people, you"},{"startTime":2506.747,"endTime":2511.11,"body":"can then do what you please.\""},{"startTime":2511.11,"endTime":2514.03,"body":"And I think that for"},{"startTime":2511.11,"endTime":2514.03,"body":"me, is in one paragraph"},{"startTime":2514.03,"endTime":2517.53,"body":"is kind of the biggest"},{"startTime":2514.03,"endTime":2517.53,"body":"problem that we face when,"},{"startTime":2517.53,"endTime":2520.043,"body":"it comes to deception"},{"startTime":2517.53,"endTime":2520.043,"body":"undermining democracy."},{"startTime":2521.84,"endTime":2523.75,"body":"How should we try to fight back?"},{"startTime":2523.75,"endTime":2527.07,"body":"Hopefully this talk today,"},{"startTime":2527.07,"endTime":2529.24,"body":"which is also being streamed"},{"startTime":2527.07,"endTime":2529.24,"body":"online and will be archived"},{"startTime":2529.24,"endTime":2532.02,"body":"to YouTube will in a very small way,"},{"startTime":2532.02,"endTime":2535.84,"body":"provide some kind of educative effect."},{"startTime":2535.84,"endTime":2536.99,"body":"But that's an important point."},{"startTime":2536.99,"endTime":2539.52,"body":"I think that the spread of"},{"startTime":2536.99,"endTime":2539.52,"body":"deception in public life,"},{"startTime":2539.52,"endTime":2541.04,"body":"fighting back against that,"},{"startTime":2541.04,"endTime":2543.78,"body":"starts with educating"},{"startTime":2541.04,"endTime":2543.78,"body":"ourselves about the many ways"},{"startTime":2543.78,"endTime":2545.12,"body":"in which it can work."},{"startTime":2545.12,"endTime":2546.74,"body":"And I see as the responsibility"},{"startTime":2546.74,"endTime":2551.74,"body":"of social scientists"},{"startTime":2546.74,"endTime":2551.74,"body":"everywhere, to use their skills"},{"startTime":2551.75,"endTime":2554.14,"body":"to contribute to civic efforts,"},{"startTime":2554.14,"endTime":2556.83,"body":"to reduce the prevalence of deception,"},{"startTime":2556.83,"endTime":2559.35,"body":"to inform programs of education,"},{"startTime":2559.35,"endTime":2562.51,"body":"and promote more ethically"},{"startTime":2559.35,"endTime":2562.51,"body":"responsible practice,"},{"startTime":2562.51,"endTime":2565.15,"body":"in the public communication professions."},{"startTime":2565.15,"endTime":2568.44,"body":"And to hold social, economic, cultural,"},{"startTime":2568.44,"endTime":2570.423,"body":"and political elites more accountable."},{"startTime":2571.43,"endTime":2572.7,"body":"So this is a vast area."},{"startTime":2572.7,"endTime":2575.94,"body":"I'll restrict my remarks"},{"startTime":2572.7,"endTime":2575.94,"body":"to some key principles"},{"startTime":2575.94,"endTime":2577.83,"body":"that I'm going to go"},{"startTime":2575.94,"endTime":2577.83,"body":"through fairly quickly,"},{"startTime":2577.83,"endTime":2580.16,"body":"and you'll have a chance in the Q and A"},{"startTime":2580.16,"endTime":2581.703,"body":"to ask me about these."},{"startTime":2583.88,"endTime":2586.81,"body":"So the first principle is to"},{"startTime":2583.88,"endTime":2586.81,"body":"promote broad understanding"},{"startTime":2586.81,"endTime":2590.27,"body":"of how the nature of"},{"startTime":2586.81,"endTime":2590.27,"body":"deception has changed,"},{"startTime":2590.27,"endTime":2593.11,"body":"quite markedly in recent"},{"startTime":2590.27,"endTime":2593.11,"body":"years, due to changes"},{"startTime":2593.11,"endTime":2594.653,"body":"in our media systems."},{"startTime":2595.53,"endTime":2599.23,"body":"And I think communication"},{"startTime":2595.53,"endTime":2599.23,"body":"scholars in particular,"},{"startTime":2599.23,"endTime":2601.75,"body":"and people with an interest"},{"startTime":2599.23,"endTime":2601.75,"body":"in all forms of communication"},{"startTime":2601.75,"endTime":2603.88,"body":"not just political communication,"},{"startTime":2603.88,"endTime":2606.823,"body":"are in a good position to"},{"startTime":2603.88,"endTime":2606.823,"body":"spread the word about this."},{"startTime":2607.71,"endTime":2611.07,"body":"Secondly, I think we should"},{"startTime":2607.71,"endTime":2611.07,"body":"focus on empowering people"},{"startTime":2611.07,"endTime":2614.25,"body":"in their everyday social capacities,"},{"startTime":2614.25,"endTime":2617.67,"body":"to understand and challenge"},{"startTime":2614.25,"endTime":2617.67,"body":"attempts to deceive."},{"startTime":2617.67,"endTime":2621.87,"body":"And we shouldn't just focus"},{"startTime":2617.67,"endTime":2621.87,"body":"on quick technological fixes"},{"startTime":2621.87,"endTime":2624.32,"body":"to so-called poor quality information."},{"startTime":2624.32,"endTime":2625.95,"body":"We need to start from the person,"},{"startTime":2625.95,"endTime":2629.26,"body":"not just from the information"},{"startTime":2625.95,"endTime":2629.26,"body":"itself and try to banish"},{"startTime":2629.26,"endTime":2632.5,"body":"the information from the public sphere."},{"startTime":2632.5,"endTime":2635.93,"body":"Thirdly, we should"},{"startTime":2632.5,"endTime":2635.93,"body":"recognize how today's media"},{"startTime":2635.93,"endTime":2639.68,"body":"and digital platform business"},{"startTime":2635.93,"endTime":2639.68,"body":"models are often ill-suited"},{"startTime":2639.68,"endTime":2641.68,"body":"to combating deception."},{"startTime":2641.68,"endTime":2645.579,"body":"Now that's not to say"},{"startTime":2641.68,"endTime":2645.579,"body":"that Facebook or Twitter"},{"startTime":2645.579,"endTime":2647.61,"body":"turns a blind eye to these problems."},{"startTime":2647.61,"endTime":2648.78,"body":"Absolutely it doesn't."},{"startTime":2648.78,"endTime":2652.32,"body":"And a seismic shock has gone"},{"startTime":2648.78,"endTime":2652.32,"body":"through this world since 2016"},{"startTime":2652.32,"endTime":2654.25,"body":"as you're probably aware."},{"startTime":2654.25,"endTime":2655.833,"body":"But there comes a point"},{"startTime":2654.25,"endTime":2655.833,"body":"where the fundamentals"},{"startTime":2655.833,"endTime":2660.21,"body":"of harvesting attention,"},{"startTime":2655.833,"endTime":2660.21,"body":"on social media in order"},{"startTime":2660.21,"endTime":2662.9,"body":"to generate revenue from advertising,"},{"startTime":2662.9,"endTime":2666.53,"body":"clashes with the principle of"},{"startTime":2662.9,"endTime":2666.53,"body":"fighting against deception."},{"startTime":2666.53,"endTime":2669.91,"body":"Because simply put, there"},{"startTime":2666.53,"endTime":2669.91,"body":"are many, many good reasons"},{"startTime":2669.91,"endTime":2673.66,"body":"why deception, through for"},{"startTime":2669.91,"endTime":2673.66,"body":"instance, emotional appeals,"},{"startTime":2673.66,"endTime":2675.57,"body":"reinforcing or sewing divisions"},{"startTime":2675.57,"endTime":2677.3,"body":"between different political groups."},{"startTime":2677.3,"endTime":2679.85,"body":"There are good reasons why"},{"startTime":2677.3,"endTime":2679.85,"body":"that makes good business sense"},{"startTime":2679.85,"endTime":2681.84,"body":"for social media companies."},{"startTime":2681.84,"endTime":2685.71,"body":"So we need to recognize that"},{"startTime":2681.84,"endTime":2685.71,"body":"and build different models."},{"startTime":2685.71,"endTime":2687.92,"body":"The next point is independently fund,"},{"startTime":2687.92,"endTime":2690.3,"body":"investigative journalism,"},{"startTime":2687.92,"endTime":2690.3,"body":"and fact checking."},{"startTime":2690.3,"endTime":2691.54,"body":"Now this is already happening,"},{"startTime":2691.54,"endTime":2694.2,"body":"but we could use more"},{"startTime":2691.54,"endTime":2694.2,"body":"of it around the world"},{"startTime":2694.2,"endTime":2695.333,"body":"not just in Britain."},{"startTime":2696.64,"endTime":2699.52,"body":"And also fund independent"},{"startTime":2696.64,"endTime":2699.52,"body":"scholarly research."},{"startTime":2699.52,"endTime":2701.92,"body":"Let's try and avoid research funded"},{"startTime":2701.92,"endTime":2705.42,"body":"on the terms directly"},{"startTime":2701.92,"endTime":2705.42,"body":"dictated by digital platforms,"},{"startTime":2705.42,"endTime":2707.84,"body":"media organizations of other kinds."},{"startTime":2707.84,"endTime":2709.86,"body":"And of course, governments."},{"startTime":2709.86,"endTime":2712.35,"body":"Let's have some independent"},{"startTime":2709.86,"endTime":2712.35,"body":"scholarly research."},{"startTime":2712.35,"endTime":2715.7,"body":"Platforms themselves have"},{"startTime":2712.35,"endTime":2715.7,"body":"spent hundreds of millions"},{"startTime":2715.7,"endTime":2717.69,"body":"of dollars over the"},{"startTime":2715.7,"endTime":2717.69,"body":"past five or six years,"},{"startTime":2717.69,"endTime":2719.8,"body":"funding academic research."},{"startTime":2719.8,"endTime":2722.059,"body":"Now most of the time there"},{"startTime":2719.8,"endTime":2722.059,"body":"are no strings attached"},{"startTime":2722.059,"endTime":2725.77,"body":"and the terms and conditions"},{"startTime":2722.059,"endTime":2725.77,"body":"of those contracts,"},{"startTime":2725.77,"endTime":2726.81,"body":"are most of the time."},{"startTime":2726.81,"endTime":2731.57,"body":"Thankfully, they enable"},{"startTime":2726.81,"endTime":2731.57,"body":"academic independence."},{"startTime":2731.57,"endTime":2735.45,"body":"But as everybody in this room will know,"},{"startTime":2735.45,"endTime":2738.08,"body":"independence is a relational concept."},{"startTime":2738.08,"endTime":2741.23,"body":"It's not just embedded in legal documents."},{"startTime":2741.23,"endTime":2744.53,"body":"It's about the expectations"},{"startTime":2741.23,"endTime":2744.53,"body":"that you have when you sign up"},{"startTime":2744.53,"endTime":2746.84,"body":"for research funding."},{"startTime":2746.84,"endTime":2750.055,"body":"And it's the expectations"},{"startTime":2746.84,"endTime":2750.055,"body":"of the funder who provides"},{"startTime":2750.055,"endTime":2751.23,"body":"the funding."},{"startTime":2751.23,"endTime":2753.8,"body":"So it's a complicated setup,"},{"startTime":2753.8,"endTime":2757.373,"body":"and I think we could use"},{"startTime":2753.8,"endTime":2757.373,"body":"more independent research."},{"startTime":2758.26,"endTime":2760.89,"body":"Independent funding for research rather."},{"startTime":2760.89,"endTime":2762.47,"body":"And then finally, a few more points."},{"startTime":2762.47,"endTime":2765.37,"body":"First of all, establish in law"},{"startTime":2765.37,"endTime":2769.19,"body":"a transparent and shared"},{"startTime":2765.37,"endTime":2769.19,"body":"public national data repository"},{"startTime":2769.19,"endTime":2772.273,"body":"in the UK, of social media takedowns"},{"startTime":2772.273,"endTime":2776.08,"body":"and other identified attempts to deceive."},{"startTime":2776.08,"endTime":2779.1,"body":"Now this is something that"},{"startTime":2776.08,"endTime":2779.1,"body":"we talked about as I say"},{"startTime":2779.1,"endTime":2783.23,"body":"in some of the advisory meetings"},{"startTime":2779.1,"endTime":2783.23,"body":"that I've been involved in,"},{"startTime":2783.23,"endTime":2786.96,"body":"at government level over"},{"startTime":2783.23,"endTime":2786.96,"body":"the last couple of years."},{"startTime":2786.96,"endTime":2789.8,"body":"Sadly it doesn't look"},{"startTime":2786.96,"endTime":2789.8,"body":"like it's going to happen."},{"startTime":2789.8,"endTime":2791.33,"body":"I wasn't the only one calling for it."},{"startTime":2791.33,"endTime":2794.04,"body":"There were fact checking"},{"startTime":2791.33,"endTime":2794.04,"body":"organizations as well."},{"startTime":2794.04,"endTime":2797.63,"body":"This would provide transparency,"},{"startTime":2794.04,"endTime":2797.63,"body":"and a public record"},{"startTime":2797.63,"endTime":2801.313,"body":"that all would be able to see and analyze."},{"startTime":2802.17,"endTime":2805.42,"body":"Next is recognize the"},{"startTime":2802.17,"endTime":2805.42,"body":"importance of politics."},{"startTime":2805.42,"endTime":2808.41,"body":"Provide opportunities"},{"startTime":2805.42,"endTime":2808.41,"body":"to challenge the idea,"},{"startTime":2808.41,"endTime":2811.21,"body":"that deception is a norm and"},{"startTime":2808.41,"endTime":2811.21,"body":"just what it takes to win."},{"startTime":2811.21,"endTime":2815.053,"body":"Because when that norm takes"},{"startTime":2811.21,"endTime":2815.053,"body":"hold, I think we're in trouble."},{"startTime":2816.61,"endTime":2819.26,"body":"Established nuanced legal frameworks"},{"startTime":2819.26,"endTime":2822.04,"body":"for retrospective public"},{"startTime":2819.26,"endTime":2822.04,"body":"inquiries of all kinds."},{"startTime":2822.04,"endTime":2823.94,"body":"As I said earlier, willful ignorance"},{"startTime":2823.94,"endTime":2827.35,"body":"is a particularly fascinating"},{"startTime":2823.94,"endTime":2827.35,"body":"but difficult to determine,"},{"startTime":2827.35,"endTime":2828.833,"body":"aspect of deception."},{"startTime":2829.97,"endTime":2832.63,"body":"We need legal frameworks to"},{"startTime":2829.97,"endTime":2832.63,"body":"take these things into account."},{"startTime":2832.63,"endTime":2835.23,"body":"Some of them already do,"},{"startTime":2832.63,"endTime":2835.23,"body":"but we could use more of it."},{"startTime":2835.23,"endTime":2838.02,"body":"And finally, to avoid moral panics"},{"startTime":2838.02,"endTime":2840.853,"body":"and unintended indirect effects,"},{"startTime":2841.95,"endTime":2846.53,"body":"try to avoid focusing just"},{"startTime":2841.95,"endTime":2846.53,"body":"on the existence out there"},{"startTime":2846.53,"endTime":2849.37,"body":"on social media of poor"},{"startTime":2846.53,"endTime":2849.37,"body":"quality information."},{"startTime":2849.37,"endTime":2851.363,"body":"That will be with us forever."},{"startTime":2852.28,"endTime":2856.59,"body":"But instead focus efforts"},{"startTime":2852.28,"endTime":2856.59,"body":"on mitigating deception,"},{"startTime":2856.59,"endTime":2860.68,"body":"where people are actually"},{"startTime":2856.59,"endTime":2860.68,"body":"deceived and modified"},{"startTime":2860.68,"endTime":2863.53,"body":"their behavior and their"},{"startTime":2860.68,"endTime":2863.53,"body":"attitudes as a result."},{"startTime":2863.53,"endTime":2865.81,"body":"Because as I said at"},{"startTime":2863.53,"endTime":2865.81,"body":"the start of the talk,"},{"startTime":2865.81,"endTime":2869.55,"body":"the mere existence of lying"},{"startTime":2865.81,"endTime":2869.55,"body":"poor quality information,"},{"startTime":2869.55,"endTime":2873.07,"body":"does not necessarily mean"},{"startTime":2869.55,"endTime":2873.07,"body":"that people are deceived."},{"startTime":2873.07,"endTime":2876.17,"body":"And on that more optimistic"},{"startTime":2873.07,"endTime":2876.17,"body":"note, I will close."},{"startTime":2876.17,"endTime":2877.56,"body":"Thank you very much for listening,"},{"startTime":2877.56,"endTime":2878.681,"body":"and I look forward to your questions."},{"startTime":2878.681,"endTime":2881.154,"body":"(audience claps)"},{"startTime":2878.681,"endTime":2881.154,"body":"Thanks."},{"startTime":2881.154,"endTime":2881.987,"body":"Thank you."},{"startTime":2884.151,"endTime":2884.984,"body":"Thanks."},{"startTime":2888.16,"endTime":2892.87,"body":"- Thank you very much for"},{"startTime":2888.16,"endTime":2892.87,"body":"a very stimulating lecture"},{"startTime":2892.87,"endTime":2894.63,"body":"which raised all sorts of questions."},{"startTime":2894.63,"endTime":2897.18,"body":"And we're inundated with questions online,"},{"startTime":2897.18,"endTime":2898.89,"body":"and I'm sure there'll be"},{"startTime":2897.18,"endTime":2898.89,"body":"lots of questions in the room"},{"startTime":2898.89,"endTime":2899.723,"body":"as well."},{"startTime":2899.723,"endTime":2903.08,"body":"I'm going to start off with"},{"startTime":2899.723,"endTime":2903.08,"body":"one of the online questions,"},{"startTime":2903.08,"endTime":2905.817,"body":"which is this."},{"startTime":2905.817,"endTime":2909.937,"body":"\"How do we override our truth bias,"},{"startTime":2909.937,"endTime":2913.997,"body":"\"and why have we not yet evolved to do so?"},{"startTime":2913.997,"endTime":2917.557,"body":"\"Is it that for most of the"},{"startTime":2913.997,"endTime":2917.557,"body":"people, most of the time,"},{"startTime":2917.557,"endTime":2920.677,"body":"\"the cost of deception is minimal?\""},{"startTime":2923.16,"endTime":2924.16,"body":"- That's a really good point"},{"startTime":2924.16,"endTime":2926.843,"body":"from the online questionnaire there."},{"startTime":2928.03,"endTime":2931.56,"body":"I think that there are good"},{"startTime":2928.03,"endTime":2931.56,"body":"social evolutionary reasons"},{"startTime":2931.56,"endTime":2933.37,"body":"why we have a truth bias."},{"startTime":2933.37,"endTime":2936.64,"body":"And as I said in the talk,"},{"startTime":2933.37,"endTime":2936.64,"body":"I'd hate to be in a society"},{"startTime":2936.64,"endTime":2938.64,"body":"where there was absolutely no trust."},{"startTime":2938.64,"endTime":2939.473,"body":"It couldn't function."},{"startTime":2939.473,"endTime":2942.35,"body":"Imagine walking down the"},{"startTime":2939.473,"endTime":2942.35,"body":"street, you imagine, oh,"},{"startTime":2942.35,"endTime":2946.0,"body":"is that the floor, are"},{"startTime":2942.35,"endTime":2946.0,"body":"those lights, is that above?"},{"startTime":2946.0,"endTime":2950.61,"body":"You've got to have that"},{"startTime":2946.0,"endTime":2950.61,"body":"acceptance in order to cooperate"},{"startTime":2950.61,"endTime":2953.41,"body":"with others, and to get things done."},{"startTime":2953.41,"endTime":2955.8,"body":"Incidentally the research literature"},{"startTime":2957.52,"endTime":2962.1,"body":"on trust is very interesting,"},{"startTime":2957.52,"endTime":2962.1,"body":"because actually contrary"},{"startTime":2962.1,"endTime":2962.94,"body":"to what you might think,"},{"startTime":2962.94,"endTime":2966.91,"body":"it's not the most trusting"},{"startTime":2962.94,"endTime":2966.91,"body":"people that are more gullible."},{"startTime":2966.91,"endTime":2970.29,"body":"It's actually people who"},{"startTime":2966.91,"endTime":2970.29,"body":"are socially isolated"},{"startTime":2970.29,"endTime":2971.63,"body":"are more gullible."},{"startTime":2971.63,"endTime":2976.27,"body":"So those people are more"},{"startTime":2971.63,"endTime":2976.27,"body":"gullible because they don't learn"},{"startTime":2977.15,"endTime":2980.09,"body":"as well as those who make"},{"startTime":2977.15,"endTime":2980.09,"body":"lots of social relationships,"},{"startTime":2980.09,"endTime":2981.61,"body":"in trustworthy ways."},{"startTime":2981.61,"endTime":2984.51,"body":"They don't learn the cues of"},{"startTime":2981.61,"endTime":2984.51,"body":"deception as well as people,"},{"startTime":2984.51,"endTime":2986.6,"body":"who spend a lot of time trusting others."},{"startTime":2986.6,"endTime":2987.58,"body":"It's actually fascinating."},{"startTime":2987.58,"endTime":2990.86,"body":"It's sort of counterintuitive,"},{"startTime":2987.58,"endTime":2990.86,"body":"but it's the case."},{"startTime":2990.86,"endTime":2994.476,"body":"So I would say that the"},{"startTime":2990.86,"endTime":2994.476,"body":"second part of the question"},{"startTime":2994.476,"endTime":2999.476,"body":"is to do with, we have little"},{"startTime":2994.476,"endTime":2999.476,"body":"to lose from deception."},{"startTime":3000.3,"endTime":3004.03,"body":"From interpersonal deception"},{"startTime":3000.3,"endTime":3004.03,"body":"where somebody tells you"},{"startTime":3004.03,"endTime":3007.36,"body":"something about, that might mislead you"},{"startTime":3007.36,"endTime":3009.72,"body":"about your finances or whatever."},{"startTime":3009.72,"endTime":3012.39,"body":"I think it's not clear cut in all cases"},{"startTime":3012.39,"endTime":3014.27,"body":"that the cost can be small."},{"startTime":3014.27,"endTime":3016.87,"body":"I think that the cost"},{"startTime":3014.27,"endTime":3016.87,"body":"can be quite serious."},{"startTime":3016.87,"endTime":3020.47,"body":"But I think at the mass level,"},{"startTime":3016.87,"endTime":3020.47,"body":"the level of mass deception,"},{"startTime":3020.47,"endTime":3024.51,"body":"where you've got significant"},{"startTime":3020.47,"endTime":3024.51,"body":"societal distortions"},{"startTime":3024.51,"endTime":3027.81,"body":"and things like huge"},{"startTime":3024.51,"endTime":3027.81,"body":"public health problems,"},{"startTime":3027.81,"endTime":3030.67,"body":"caused by people who've"},{"startTime":3027.81,"endTime":3030.67,"body":"been misled about the safety"},{"startTime":3030.67,"endTime":3032.377,"body":"of COVID vaccines, for instance."},{"startTime":3032.377,"endTime":3035.18,"body":"I would say that there's always"},{"startTime":3035.18,"endTime":3039.24,"body":"quite a significant cost when"},{"startTime":3035.18,"endTime":3039.24,"body":"it comes to mass deception."},{"startTime":3039.24,"endTime":3041.34,"body":"That's not to say that"},{"startTime":3039.24,"endTime":3041.34,"body":"everybody's deceived,"},{"startTime":3041.34,"endTime":3044.32,"body":"but there could be large"},{"startTime":3041.34,"endTime":3044.32,"body":"sections of society."},{"startTime":3044.32,"endTime":3046.47,"body":"And that can make a difference"},{"startTime":3044.32,"endTime":3046.47,"body":"not just to their lives,"},{"startTime":3046.47,"endTime":3048.86,"body":"but to all of our lives."},{"startTime":3048.86,"endTime":3050.54,"body":"So that would be my response."},{"startTime":3050.54,"endTime":3052.41,"body":"I'm not sure if I've entirely"},{"startTime":3050.54,"endTime":3052.41,"body":"answered the question,"},{"startTime":3052.41,"endTime":3055.29,"body":"but I hope it went some way towards it."},{"startTime":3055.29,"endTime":3056.123,"body":"- [Audience Member] Thank you."},{"startTime":3056.123,"endTime":3059.16,"body":"So you mentioned in"},{"startTime":3056.123,"endTime":3059.16,"body":"the slide before about,"},{"startTime":3059.16,"endTime":3060.11,"body":"it's probably not going to happen,"},{"startTime":3060.11,"endTime":3062.54,"body":"but publishing those"},{"startTime":3060.11,"endTime":3062.54,"body":"social media takedowns,"},{"startTime":3062.54,"endTime":3063.46,"body":"things like that."},{"startTime":3063.46,"endTime":3066.34,"body":"If it were to happen, which"},{"startTime":3063.46,"endTime":3066.34,"body":"unfortunately it won't,"},{"startTime":3066.34,"endTime":3069.68,"body":"how would that work and what"},{"startTime":3066.34,"endTime":3069.68,"body":"would it actually look like?"},{"startTime":3069.68,"endTime":3071.2,"body":"- Sure."},{"startTime":3071.2,"endTime":3074.03,"body":"The model that I've got in mind is,"},{"startTime":3074.03,"endTime":3079.03,"body":"look, we know now, and these"},{"startTime":3074.03,"endTime":3079.03,"body":"efforts have been accelerated"},{"startTime":3079.04,"endTime":3081.44,"body":"significantly in the"},{"startTime":3079.04,"endTime":3081.44,"body":"last two to three years."},{"startTime":3081.44,"endTime":3086.27,"body":"We know that content moderation,"},{"startTime":3081.44,"endTime":3086.27,"body":"taking down material,"},{"startTime":3086.27,"endTime":3089.09,"body":"happens on a minute by minute basis"},{"startTime":3089.09,"endTime":3092.083,"body":"across all social media"},{"startTime":3089.09,"endTime":3092.083,"body":"platforms, big or small."},{"startTime":3093.22,"endTime":3096.283,"body":"The truly big and important"},{"startTime":3093.22,"endTime":3096.283,"body":"ones that are public."},{"startTime":3096.283,"endTime":3099.25,"body":"Not platforms such as"},{"startTime":3096.283,"endTime":3099.25,"body":"WhatsApp for instance"},{"startTime":3099.25,"endTime":3101.43,"body":"which is entirely different,"},{"startTime":3099.25,"endTime":3101.43,"body":"but the public platforms"},{"startTime":3101.43,"endTime":3103.03,"body":"we know that this happens."},{"startTime":3103.03,"endTime":3104.99,"body":"But the big problem that we've got,"},{"startTime":3104.99,"endTime":3109.41,"body":"is getting our hands as"},{"startTime":3104.99,"endTime":3109.41,"body":"researchers on the data."},{"startTime":3109.41,"endTime":3114.04,"body":"And also there is a question"},{"startTime":3109.41,"endTime":3114.04,"body":"of accountability here."},{"startTime":3114.04,"endTime":3117.41,"body":"So the sheer lack of transparency,"},{"startTime":3117.41,"endTime":3119.86,"body":"when we don't know when the"},{"startTime":3117.41,"endTime":3119.86,"body":"decisions are being made"},{"startTime":3119.86,"endTime":3120.91,"body":"and how they're being made."},{"startTime":3120.91,"endTime":3123.26,"body":"And they've been attempted to"},{"startTime":3120.91,"endTime":3123.26,"body":"address this with Facebook,"},{"startTime":3123.26,"endTime":3125.6,"body":"with its oversight board and so on."},{"startTime":3125.6,"endTime":3127.55,"body":"But only by making these things public."},{"startTime":3127.55,"endTime":3132.15,"body":"Can we first of all, identify"},{"startTime":3127.55,"endTime":3132.15,"body":"more successfully patterns"},{"startTime":3132.15,"endTime":3133.6,"body":"of online deception."},{"startTime":3133.6,"endTime":3136.81,"body":"But secondly, increase"},{"startTime":3133.6,"endTime":3136.81,"body":"trust in the process"},{"startTime":3136.81,"endTime":3140.11,"body":"by which the public sphere is moderated,"},{"startTime":3140.11,"endTime":3142.01,"body":"its content is moderated."},{"startTime":3142.01,"endTime":3145.12,"body":"So by doing that and allowing"},{"startTime":3142.01,"endTime":3145.12,"body":"fact checkers to submit."},{"startTime":3145.12,"endTime":3147.64,"body":"When fact checkers,"},{"startTime":3145.12,"endTime":3147.64,"body":"organizations like Full Fact"},{"startTime":3147.64,"endTime":3152.37,"body":"for instance, do great work,"},{"startTime":3147.64,"endTime":3152.37,"body":"but it will be really great"},{"startTime":3152.37,"endTime":3155.6,"body":"to have something beyond their website,"},{"startTime":3155.6,"endTime":3157.15,"body":"which is what they've chosen to tell us."},{"startTime":3157.15,"endTime":3159.53,"body":"And it's all really great stuff,"},{"startTime":3159.53,"endTime":3160.54,"body":"so I'm not criticizing them."},{"startTime":3160.54,"endTime":3162.47,"body":"But it would be really great for them"},{"startTime":3162.47,"endTime":3163.897,"body":"to show they're working,"},{"startTime":3162.47,"endTime":3163.897,"body":"and kind of publish it"},{"startTime":3163.897,"endTime":3167.017,"body":"and say, \"We came across"},{"startTime":3163.897,"endTime":3167.017,"body":"this, and this led us to that,"},{"startTime":3167.017,"endTime":3168.79,"body":"\"and we found this.\""},{"startTime":3168.79,"endTime":3169.92,"body":"That's what I'm talking about."},{"startTime":3169.92,"endTime":3172.81,"body":"It's essentially just"},{"startTime":3169.92,"endTime":3172.81,"body":"making the whole issue,"},{"startTime":3172.81,"endTime":3175.71,"body":"public like a public utility"},{"startTime":3172.81,"endTime":3175.71,"body":"really in the interest"},{"startTime":3175.71,"endTime":3179.28,"body":"of citizenship, people who want to go"},{"startTime":3179.28,"endTime":3181.07,"body":"and look at this material."},{"startTime":3181.07,"endTime":3182.78,"body":"And then we can have an argument about it,"},{"startTime":3182.78,"endTime":3184.28,"body":"and have an argument in public."},{"startTime":3184.28,"endTime":3186.23,"body":"But the problem is that when you've got"},{"startTime":3186.23,"endTime":3190.54,"body":"these very large scale public"},{"startTime":3186.23,"endTime":3190.54,"body":"utilities, like Facebook."},{"startTime":3190.54,"endTime":3192.21,"body":"Facebook is as important."},{"startTime":3192.21,"endTime":3195.02,"body":"I would argue to our society not quite,"},{"startTime":3195.02,"endTime":3197.133,"body":"but almost as important as electricity."},{"startTime":3199.014,"endTime":3200.83,"body":"So if you think about it,"},{"startTime":3200.83,"endTime":3204.03,"body":"why shouldn't we have"},{"startTime":3200.83,"endTime":3204.03,"body":"more public spirited,"},{"startTime":3204.03,"endTime":3206.186,"body":"public oriented forms of oversight"},{"startTime":3206.186,"endTime":3210.98,"body":"of these large, powerful, organizations."},{"startTime":3210.98,"endTime":3213.827,"body":"Not through censorship,"},{"startTime":3210.98,"endTime":3213.827,"body":"not by government saying,"},{"startTime":3213.827,"endTime":3215.3,"body":"\"No, you can't publish that.\""},{"startTime":3215.3,"endTime":3218.15,"body":"But by opening it up so that"},{"startTime":3215.3,"endTime":3218.15,"body":"we can all then have a look"},{"startTime":3218.15,"endTime":3221.01,"body":"at what's being done and"},{"startTime":3218.15,"endTime":3221.01,"body":"have an argument about it."},{"startTime":3221.01,"endTime":3222.06,"body":"- So I'm going to ask you a question"},{"startTime":3222.06,"endTime":3223.45,"body":"which has come out of that."},{"startTime":3223.45,"endTime":3226.08,"body":"It follows on from what"},{"startTime":3223.45,"endTime":3226.08,"body":"you've just been saying."},{"startTime":3226.08,"endTime":3229.57,"body":"Several people have voted"},{"startTime":3226.08,"endTime":3229.57,"body":"for this question online."},{"startTime":3229.57,"endTime":3230.557,"body":"Which is this."},{"startTime":3230.557,"endTime":3234.527,"body":"\"Aren't fighting deception"},{"startTime":3230.557,"endTime":3234.527,"body":"and fact checking,"},{"startTime":3234.527,"endTime":3237.237,"body":"\"just other ways of government censoring"},{"startTime":3237.237,"endTime":3238.88,"body":"\"what doesn't suit them?\""},{"startTime":3238.88,"endTime":3240.75,"body":"(Andrew laughs)"},{"startTime":3240.75,"endTime":3241.99,"body":"It was a very good question."},{"startTime":3241.99,"endTime":3244.72,"body":"- Now it is a really great question."},{"startTime":3244.72,"endTime":3245.625,"body":"I'm not sure if I'm going to be able"},{"startTime":3245.625,"endTime":3248.29,"body":"to answer that one in a few"},{"startTime":3245.625,"endTime":3248.29,"body":"minutes, but let me try."},{"startTime":3248.29,"endTime":3251.103,"body":"Look, I think at the end of the day,"},{"startTime":3251.103,"endTime":3253.26,"body":"what we've got to to realize"},{"startTime":3253.26,"endTime":3258.26,"body":"is that there are categories"},{"startTime":3253.26,"endTime":3258.26,"body":"of speech that are harmful,"},{"startTime":3259.56,"endTime":3262.803,"body":"to social cohesion, to public health."},{"startTime":3263.8,"endTime":3267.26,"body":"There are categories of speech"},{"startTime":3263.8,"endTime":3267.26,"body":"that lead to hate speech"},{"startTime":3267.26,"endTime":3270.9,"body":"for instance, incitement to racial hatred,"},{"startTime":3270.9,"endTime":3273.223,"body":"extreme misogyny online."},{"startTime":3274.5,"endTime":3277.89,"body":"Disinformation based extremism is a thing."},{"startTime":3277.89,"endTime":3281.81,"body":"In other words, political"},{"startTime":3277.89,"endTime":3281.81,"body":"extremists who deliberately"},{"startTime":3281.81,"endTime":3286.81,"body":"spread conspiracy theories,"},{"startTime":3281.81,"endTime":3286.81,"body":"in order to either destabilize"},{"startTime":3287.07,"endTime":3291.1,"body":"public communication, or"},{"startTime":3287.07,"endTime":3291.1,"body":"to advance their own cause"},{"startTime":3291.1,"endTime":3293.33,"body":"in a way that they hope will"},{"startTime":3291.1,"endTime":3293.33,"body":"spread the net as widely"},{"startTime":3293.33,"endTime":3295.86,"body":"as possible so that they"},{"startTime":3293.33,"endTime":3295.86,"body":"will get new adherence"},{"startTime":3295.86,"endTime":3297.46,"body":"to their cause."},{"startTime":3297.46,"endTime":3302.46,"body":"I think for me, it's not so"},{"startTime":3297.46,"endTime":3302.46,"body":"much about government censorship"},{"startTime":3302.62,"endTime":3306.2,"body":"and telling people what"},{"startTime":3302.62,"endTime":3306.2,"body":"they can and cannot say."},{"startTime":3306.2,"endTime":3309.285,"body":"It's about recognizing"},{"startTime":3306.2,"endTime":3309.285,"body":"that in order to protect"},{"startTime":3309.285,"endTime":3312.11,"body":"the principles of liberal democracy,"},{"startTime":3312.11,"endTime":3315.0,"body":"and to make sure that they aren't eroded."},{"startTime":3315.0,"endTime":3319.43,"body":"There are times when"},{"startTime":3315.0,"endTime":3319.43,"body":"governments have to establish"},{"startTime":3319.43,"endTime":3323.99,"body":"an infrastructure, for"},{"startTime":3319.43,"endTime":3323.99,"body":"accountability of speech."},{"startTime":3323.99,"endTime":3326.63,"body":"And I personally don't"},{"startTime":3323.99,"endTime":3326.63,"body":"have a problem with that,"},{"startTime":3326.63,"endTime":3329.11,"body":"as long as they are not the"},{"startTime":3326.63,"endTime":3329.11,"body":"only ones who are doing it"},{"startTime":3329.11,"endTime":3332.39,"body":"and they are not the final"},{"startTime":3329.11,"endTime":3332.39,"body":"arbiters in all cases."},{"startTime":3332.39,"endTime":3336.07,"body":"So a classic example, this is"},{"startTime":3332.39,"endTime":3336.07,"body":"not a new idea by any means,"},{"startTime":3336.07,"endTime":3338.29,"body":"but consider the BBC."},{"startTime":3338.29,"endTime":3340.86,"body":"So the BBC is one of the most"},{"startTime":3338.29,"endTime":3340.86,"body":"trusted news organizations"},{"startTime":3340.86,"endTime":3341.693,"body":"in the world."},{"startTime":3341.693,"endTime":3343.1,"body":"It's had a rocky time in recent times"},{"startTime":3343.1,"endTime":3344.9,"body":"from the political left"},{"startTime":3343.1,"endTime":3344.9,"body":"and the political right,"},{"startTime":3344.9,"endTime":3349.24,"body":"but still survey show"},{"startTime":3344.9,"endTime":3349.24,"body":"that it is highly trusted."},{"startTime":3349.24,"endTime":3352.23,"body":"It's also widely admired around the world"},{"startTime":3352.23,"endTime":3357.03,"body":"for its great factual"},{"startTime":3352.23,"endTime":3357.03,"body":"programming, its entertainment,"},{"startTime":3357.03,"endTime":3358.88,"body":"and particularly of course its news."},{"startTime":3358.88,"endTime":3361.07,"body":"Now it happens to be one"},{"startTime":3358.88,"endTime":3361.07,"body":"of the most well-resourced"},{"startTime":3361.07,"endTime":3362.44,"body":"news organizations in the world."},{"startTime":3362.44,"endTime":3364.47,"body":"So let's not forget that."},{"startTime":3364.47,"endTime":3368.98,"body":"But of course the BBC"},{"startTime":3364.47,"endTime":3368.98,"body":"operates at arm's length"},{"startTime":3368.98,"endTime":3371.2,"body":"from the British state."},{"startTime":3371.2,"endTime":3372.79,"body":"It is a creature of the state,"},{"startTime":3372.79,"endTime":3375.053,"body":"but it isn't controlled by the state."},{"startTime":3375.96,"endTime":3379.47,"body":"And the way in which the BBC"},{"startTime":3375.96,"endTime":3379.47,"body":"operates is set out in law,"},{"startTime":3379.47,"endTime":3381.55,"body":"in a series of pieces of legislation"},{"startTime":3381.55,"endTime":3383.23,"body":"that govern things like the license fee,"},{"startTime":3383.23,"endTime":3387.033,"body":"editorial independence, the"},{"startTime":3383.23,"endTime":3387.033,"body":"board of governors and so on."},{"startTime":3387.92,"endTime":3390.4,"body":"So if we take that kind of model,"},{"startTime":3390.4,"endTime":3393.58,"body":"the idea of free speech and"},{"startTime":3390.4,"endTime":3393.58,"body":"good quality information,"},{"startTime":3393.58,"endTime":3396.39,"body":"and enriching public discourse,"},{"startTime":3396.39,"endTime":3399.57,"body":"is not fundamentally"},{"startTime":3396.39,"endTime":3399.57,"body":"incompatible I would argue,"},{"startTime":3399.57,"endTime":3402.33,"body":"with establishing an infrastructure."},{"startTime":3402.33,"endTime":3406.453,"body":"Where we decide collectively,"},{"startTime":3402.33,"endTime":3406.453,"body":"what kinds of speech"},{"startTime":3406.453,"endTime":3410.17,"body":"we want to promote and"},{"startTime":3406.453,"endTime":3410.17,"body":"amplify, and are useful"},{"startTime":3410.17,"endTime":3411.12,"body":"for our civic life."},{"startTime":3411.12,"endTime":3414.79,"body":"And what kinds of speech"},{"startTime":3411.12,"endTime":3414.79,"body":"spread hate, disinformation,"},{"startTime":3414.79,"endTime":3418.0,"body":"undermine democracy, and"},{"startTime":3414.79,"endTime":3418.0,"body":"undermine people's interests,"},{"startTime":3418.0,"endTime":3420.7,"body":"undermine collective"},{"startTime":3418.0,"endTime":3420.7,"body":"public health, and so on."},{"startTime":3420.7,"endTime":3421.85,"body":"So that's where I draw the line."},{"startTime":3421.85,"endTime":3425.23,"body":"I don't think there's a"},{"startTime":3421.85,"endTime":3425.23,"body":"fundamental incompatibility"},{"startTime":3425.23,"endTime":3427.103,"body":"between a public infrastructure."},{"startTime":3428.08,"endTime":3430.33,"body":"I don't think that's the"},{"startTime":3428.08,"endTime":3430.33,"body":"same thing as censorship"},{"startTime":3430.33,"endTime":3433.28,"body":"and government censorship, but"},{"startTime":3430.33,"endTime":3433.28,"body":"I recognize that of course,"},{"startTime":3433.28,"endTime":3434.55,"body":"again, with the online safety bill"},{"startTime":3434.55,"endTime":3435.69,"body":"going through parliament right now,"},{"startTime":3435.69,"endTime":3437.67,"body":"these are very, very live issues."},{"startTime":3437.67,"endTime":3439.52,"body":"Very, very important issues."},{"startTime":3439.52,"endTime":3440.353,"body":"- [Audience Member] Can you tell me,"},{"startTime":3440.353,"endTime":3441.663,"body":"how does one determine truth?"},{"startTime":3443.62,"endTime":3445.333,"body":"- How does one determine truth?"},{"startTime":3446.91,"endTime":3449.36,"body":"Again, I've got a short period of time"},{"startTime":3449.36,"endTime":3451.02,"body":"and I'm not sure I'd"},{"startTime":3449.36,"endTime":3451.02,"body":"ever be able to answer it"},{"startTime":3451.02,"endTime":3452.093,"body":"if I had two hours."},{"startTime":3454.021,"endTime":3456.35,"body":"So there are various"},{"startTime":3454.021,"endTime":3456.35,"body":"definitions aren't they."},{"startTime":3456.35,"endTime":3458.58,"body":"First a longstanding definition"},{"startTime":3458.58,"endTime":3461.01,"body":"is the idea of the marketplace of ideas."},{"startTime":3461.01,"endTime":3463.01,"body":"So this goes back to the French Revolution"},{"startTime":3463.01,"endTime":3464.38,"body":"in the late 18th century."},{"startTime":3464.38,"endTime":3467.38,"body":"It's the idea that the best arguments"},{"startTime":3467.38,"endTime":3469.63,"body":"and knowledge will prevail."},{"startTime":3469.63,"endTime":3472.76,"body":"But the problem with that"},{"startTime":3469.63,"endTime":3472.76,"body":"is that it can be distorted"},{"startTime":3472.76,"endTime":3476.219,"body":"by the ways in which out the"},{"startTime":3472.76,"endTime":3476.219,"body":"market for the circulation,"},{"startTime":3476.219,"endTime":3478.89,"body":"of information can be distorted."},{"startTime":3478.89,"endTime":3481.61,"body":"So some people have more power than others"},{"startTime":3481.61,"endTime":3483.37,"body":"to communicate in the public sphere."},{"startTime":3483.37,"endTime":3485.7,"body":"So the marketplace of"},{"startTime":3483.37,"endTime":3485.7,"body":"ideas can be just something"},{"startTime":3485.7,"endTime":3489.78,"body":"that happens because"},{"startTime":3485.7,"endTime":3489.78,"body":"somebody, it sells more."},{"startTime":3489.78,"endTime":3491.73,"body":"This is a classic problem."},{"startTime":3491.73,"endTime":3493.13,"body":"So that's not the truth."},{"startTime":3493.13,"endTime":3495.68,"body":"Another definition of"},{"startTime":3493.13,"endTime":3495.68,"body":"the truth that's become,"},{"startTime":3495.68,"endTime":3497.74,"body":"not necessarily a definition of the truth,"},{"startTime":3497.74,"endTime":3501.56,"body":"but a definition of what"},{"startTime":3497.74,"endTime":3501.56,"body":"constitutes misinformation."},{"startTime":3501.56,"endTime":3505.53,"body":"So misinformation is often"},{"startTime":3501.56,"endTime":3505.53,"body":"defined, as when people"},{"startTime":3505.53,"endTime":3510.45,"body":"hold beliefs that contradict"},{"startTime":3505.53,"endTime":3510.45,"body":"the best available"},{"startTime":3510.45,"endTime":3513.17,"body":"authoritative knowledge at the time."},{"startTime":3513.17,"endTime":3515.75,"body":"Now in the field of political"},{"startTime":3513.17,"endTime":3515.75,"body":"communication research,"},{"startTime":3515.75,"endTime":3519.97,"body":"and in a lot of political"},{"startTime":3515.75,"endTime":3519.97,"body":"psychology research as well,"},{"startTime":3519.97,"endTime":3522.23,"body":"that's the sort of shorthand definition"},{"startTime":3522.23,"endTime":3523.94,"body":"that people use."},{"startTime":3523.94,"endTime":3526.33,"body":"So there are some strengths of this"},{"startTime":3526.33,"endTime":3528.81,"body":"because it establishes the principle"},{"startTime":3528.81,"endTime":3530.64,"body":"of authoritative knowledge."},{"startTime":3530.64,"endTime":3535.13,"body":"So it involves a recognition"},{"startTime":3530.64,"endTime":3535.13,"body":"that there are social divisions"},{"startTime":3535.13,"endTime":3537.4,"body":"based on expertise and learning,"},{"startTime":3537.4,"endTime":3541.33,"body":"and it assigns more importance"},{"startTime":3537.4,"endTime":3541.33,"body":"to scientific voices"},{"startTime":3541.33,"endTime":3544.9,"body":"and voices of people who are learned."},{"startTime":3544.9,"endTime":3547.62,"body":"That's simultaneously"},{"startTime":3544.9,"endTime":3547.62,"body":"it's weakness however."},{"startTime":3547.62,"endTime":3551.49,"body":"Because one of the problems"},{"startTime":3547.62,"endTime":3551.49,"body":"as we've seen is that,"},{"startTime":3551.49,"endTime":3555.58,"body":"especially with populous"},{"startTime":3551.49,"endTime":3555.58,"body":"critiques of scientific knowledge,"},{"startTime":3555.58,"endTime":3557.67,"body":"is that people are not often comfortable"},{"startTime":3557.67,"endTime":3560.65,"body":"with being told what to do"},{"startTime":3557.67,"endTime":3560.65,"body":"and how to live their lives."},{"startTime":3560.65,"endTime":3563.45,"body":"So my view is that we probably"},{"startTime":3560.65,"endTime":3563.45,"body":"bump along in the space"},{"startTime":3563.45,"endTime":3566.72,"body":"between where we've got"},{"startTime":3563.45,"endTime":3566.72,"body":"authoritative knowledge,"},{"startTime":3566.72,"endTime":3569.22,"body":"which is continually, of course,"},{"startTime":3569.22,"endTime":3572.853,"body":"being refined and redefined as"},{"startTime":3569.22,"endTime":3572.853,"body":"scientific progress evolves."},{"startTime":3574.935,"endTime":3577.14,"body":"The thing about science and the truth"},{"startTime":3577.14,"endTime":3580.75,"body":"is that the truth isn't there forevermore."},{"startTime":3580.75,"endTime":3582.93,"body":"Science is a collective endeavor,"},{"startTime":3582.93,"endTime":3585.88,"body":"and people are always"},{"startTime":3582.93,"endTime":3585.88,"body":"knocking previous theorists"},{"startTime":3585.88,"endTime":3587.527,"body":"and scientists off their"},{"startTime":3585.88,"endTime":3587.527,"body":"purchase and saying,"},{"startTime":3587.527,"endTime":3591.46,"body":"\"No, you got it wrong,\" and"},{"startTime":3587.527,"endTime":3591.46,"body":"showing that with new evidence."},{"startTime":3591.46,"endTime":3595.54,"body":"But at the same time I think"},{"startTime":3591.46,"endTime":3595.54,"body":"that the public generally"},{"startTime":3595.54,"endTime":3598.69,"body":"need to be involved in an"},{"startTime":3595.54,"endTime":3598.69,"body":"argument, in the public sphere"},{"startTime":3598.69,"endTime":3602.55,"body":"about what constitutes"},{"startTime":3598.69,"endTime":3602.55,"body":"authoritative knowledge."},{"startTime":3602.55,"endTime":3604.68,"body":"And the more people"},{"startTime":3602.55,"endTime":3604.68,"body":"that we can get involved"},{"startTime":3604.68,"endTime":3606.37,"body":"in those kinds of arguments,"},{"startTime":3606.37,"endTime":3608.91,"body":"the closer we'll get to the truth."},{"startTime":3608.91,"endTime":3609.83,"body":"So that's my answer."},{"startTime":3609.83,"endTime":3613.55,"body":"It's a kind of that space"},{"startTime":3609.83,"endTime":3613.55,"body":"in between collective,"},{"startTime":3613.55,"endTime":3616.61,"body":"public demands and aspirations,"},{"startTime":3616.61,"endTime":3619.38,"body":"but also authoritative"},{"startTime":3616.61,"endTime":3619.38,"body":"scientific knowledge."},{"startTime":3619.38,"endTime":3622.77,"body":"And I think that's stood"},{"startTime":3619.38,"endTime":3622.77,"body":"us in pretty good stead"},{"startTime":3622.77,"endTime":3625.73,"body":"by and large until, we face the problems"},{"startTime":3625.73,"endTime":3627.65,"body":"that we have recently."},{"startTime":3627.65,"endTime":3630.94,"body":"It's stood us in good"},{"startTime":3627.65,"endTime":3630.94,"body":"stead for most of the time"},{"startTime":3630.94,"endTime":3633.85,"body":"since the emergence of liberal"},{"startTime":3630.94,"endTime":3633.85,"body":"democracy across Europe"},{"startTime":3633.85,"endTime":3636.96,"body":"and other parts of the"},{"startTime":3633.85,"endTime":3636.96,"body":"world, in the 19th century."},{"startTime":3636.96,"endTime":3639.63,"body":"Of course we've got periods"},{"startTime":3636.96,"endTime":3639.63,"body":"of immense barbarity"},{"startTime":3639.63,"endTime":3641.55,"body":"and brutality such as wars,"},{"startTime":3641.55,"endTime":3644.32,"body":"that have made a huge"},{"startTime":3641.55,"endTime":3644.32,"body":"difference, this huge setbacks."},{"startTime":3644.32,"endTime":3649.32,"body":"But I think recently, now"},{"startTime":3644.32,"endTime":3649.32,"body":"we are in a greater mess"},{"startTime":3650.62,"endTime":3654.803,"body":"I would argue, than certainly"},{"startTime":3650.62,"endTime":3654.803,"body":"I felt during my lifetime,"},{"startTime":3656.35,"endTime":3657.99,"body":"since the early 1970s."},{"startTime":3657.99,"endTime":3660.21,"body":"So I think that there is"},{"startTime":3657.99,"endTime":3660.21,"body":"something that's changed"},{"startTime":3660.21,"endTime":3662.577,"body":"in the nature, of how"},{"startTime":3660.21,"endTime":3662.577,"body":"widespread deception is,"},{"startTime":3662.577,"endTime":3664.44,"body":"and how it's become more of a norm."},{"startTime":3664.44,"endTime":3667.25,"body":"And it's so easy to achieve online,"},{"startTime":3667.25,"endTime":3669.65,"body":"in ways that perhaps are more difficult"},{"startTime":3669.65,"endTime":3671.58,"body":"to achieve before the"},{"startTime":3669.65,"endTime":3671.58,"body":"rise of the internet."},{"startTime":3671.58,"endTime":3673.69,"body":"And that worries me greatly."},{"startTime":3673.69,"endTime":3676.3,"body":"- I'm afraid that's all we"},{"startTime":3673.69,"endTime":3676.3,"body":"have time for this evening."},{"startTime":3676.3,"endTime":3679.535,"body":"But I'm sure that Professor"},{"startTime":3676.3,"endTime":3679.535,"body":"Chadwick will hover around"},{"startTime":3679.535,"endTime":3682.81,"body":"the podium and answer any more questions,"},{"startTime":3682.81,"endTime":3684.99,"body":"from the audience in the room."},{"startTime":3684.99,"endTime":3687.22,"body":"But in the meantime, can"},{"startTime":3684.99,"endTime":3687.22,"body":"we please thank professor"},{"startTime":3687.22,"endTime":3688.965,"body":"for a really fabulous"},{"startTime":3687.22,"endTime":3688.965,"body":"lecture this evening."},{"startTime":3688.965,"endTime":3689.798,"body":"Thanks you."},{"startTime":3688.965,"endTime":3689.798,"body":"(audience claps)"},{"startTime":3689.798,"endTime":3691.215,"body":"- Thanks, thanks."}]}