{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":4.17,"endTime":6.453,"body":"- Good evening, everyone and welcome."},{"startTime":7.62,"endTime":12.39,"body":"My name is Jeffrey Nice and I'm"},{"startTime":7.62,"endTime":12.39,"body":"an Emeritus Professor of Law"},{"startTime":12.39,"endTime":14.64,"body":"here at Gresham College."},{"startTime":14.64,"endTime":18.9,"body":"It's my great pleasure"},{"startTime":14.64,"endTime":18.9,"body":"to be able to introduce"},{"startTime":18.9,"endTime":22.71,"body":"this year's Grays Inn Reading."},{"startTime":22.71,"endTime":27.71,"body":"Now, Gresham College has been"},{"startTime":22.71,"endTime":27.71,"body":"providing free public lectures"},{"startTime":29.22,"endTime":32.73,"body":"since its founding in the 16th century."},{"startTime":32.73,"endTime":34.74,"body":"Designed in the words of our founder,"},{"startTime":34.74,"endTime":38.49,"body":"there he is on the"},{"startTime":34.74,"endTime":38.49,"body":"wall, Sir Thomas Gresham"},{"startTime":38.49,"endTime":41.79,"body":"to spread the new learning."},{"startTime":41.79,"endTime":46.79,"body":"So for 450 years education"},{"startTime":41.79,"endTime":46.79,"body":"free at the point of contact"},{"startTime":47.1,"endTime":52.1,"body":"in this city would be quite"},{"startTime":47.1,"endTime":52.1,"body":"wrong to be challenging."},{"startTime":52.38,"endTime":53.213,"body":"Wouldn't it?"},{"startTime":53.213,"endTime":57.95,"body":"But Ted lectures, 450 years keep going."},{"startTime":59.07,"endTime":61.053,"body":"We doubt you'll make the course."},{"startTime":62.16,"endTime":65.55,"body":"The Grays Inn Reading is a"},{"startTime":62.16,"endTime":65.55,"body":"very special annual event"},{"startTime":65.55,"endTime":69.15,"body":"celebrating the association in former days"},{"startTime":69.15,"endTime":73.263,"body":"between Grays Inn, just across"},{"startTime":69.15,"endTime":73.263,"body":"the road and Barnards Inn."},{"startTime":74.67,"endTime":77.31,"body":"Gresham College has been"},{"startTime":74.67,"endTime":77.31,"body":"located in various places"},{"startTime":77.31,"endTime":82.31,"body":"since founding, but recently"},{"startTime":77.31,"endTime":82.31,"body":"here in this Barnards Inn Hall,"},{"startTime":85.26,"endTime":88.68,"body":"which was established"},{"startTime":85.26,"endTime":88.68,"body":"as an inn of chancery"},{"startTime":88.68,"endTime":89.883,"body":"linked to Grays Inn."},{"startTime":91.08,"endTime":94.35,"body":"So again 500 years ago,"},{"startTime":94.35,"endTime":97.36,"body":"there will be students, I'm"},{"startTime":94.35,"endTime":97.36,"body":"afraid they would all be men"},{"startTime":99.09,"endTime":102.09,"body":"learning law, instructed by their seniors"},{"startTime":102.09,"endTime":107.01,"body":"from across the road, just as"},{"startTime":102.09,"endTime":107.01,"body":"we are going to be tonight,"},{"startTime":107.01,"endTime":108.933,"body":"but in a slightly more modern age."},{"startTime":111.21,"endTime":114.33,"body":"Members of Grays have"},{"startTime":111.21,"endTime":114.33,"body":"been appointed as readers"},{"startTime":114.33,"endTime":115.29,"body":"to Barnards Inn."},{"startTime":115.29,"endTime":120.29,"body":"And so the habit or the"},{"startTime":115.29,"endTime":120.29,"body":"practice was revived in 2004"},{"startTime":121.62,"endTime":123.94,"body":"with the annual lecture, this lecture"},{"startTime":124.8,"endTime":128.613,"body":"that concludes Gresham's academic year."},{"startTime":130.17,"endTime":132.24,"body":"It's my very great pleasure this evening"},{"startTime":132.24,"endTime":136.32,"body":"to welcome this year's Grays Inn reader,"},{"startTime":136.32,"endTime":138.82,"body":"the right honorable Lady Rose of Colmworth"},{"startTime":140.1,"endTime":144.753,"body":"currently a justice of our"},{"startTime":140.1,"endTime":144.753,"body":"highest court, the Supreme Court."},{"startTime":145.62,"endTime":148.86,"body":"She was called to the"},{"startTime":145.62,"endTime":148.86,"body":"bar by Grays Inn in 1984,"},{"startTime":148.86,"endTime":152.7,"body":"was in practice in Monckton"},{"startTime":148.86,"endTime":152.7,"body":"Chambers for 10 years,"},{"startTime":152.7,"endTime":156.66,"body":"but didn't feel the need"},{"startTime":152.7,"endTime":156.66,"body":"to stick to one thing"},{"startTime":156.66,"endTime":158.62,"body":"and showed her skills at others"},{"startTime":159.54,"endTime":162.93,"body":"leaving private practice"},{"startTime":159.54,"endTime":162.93,"body":"to join the government"},{"startTime":162.93,"endTime":164.49,"body":"where she was a legal advisor"},{"startTime":164.49,"endTime":166.65,"body":"in financial services at the treasury"},{"startTime":166.65,"endTime":169.23,"body":"later moving to the ministry of defense's,"},{"startTime":169.23,"endTime":173.64,"body":"director of operational and"},{"startTime":169.23,"endTime":173.64,"body":"international humanitarian law"},{"startTime":173.64,"endTime":175.56,"body":"and then to the Office of Speakers Council"},{"startTime":175.56,"endTime":178.02,"body":"in the House of Commons."},{"startTime":178.02,"endTime":181.8,"body":"Her first judicial role"},{"startTime":178.02,"endTime":181.8,"body":"as a fee paid chairman"},{"startTime":181.8,"endTime":185.883,"body":"of the Competition Appeal"},{"startTime":181.8,"endTime":185.883,"body":"Tribunal was in 2006."},{"startTime":187.14,"endTime":190.44,"body":"2013 sworn in as a high court judge"},{"startTime":190.44,"endTime":192.33,"body":"in the Chancery Division,"},{"startTime":192.33,"endTime":196.53,"body":"President of the Upper Tribunal"},{"startTime":192.33,"endTime":196.53,"body":"in Tax and Chancery Chamber"},{"startTime":196.53,"endTime":201.09,"body":"between 2015 and 2018,"},{"startTime":201.09,"endTime":206.09,"body":"appointed to the court of"},{"startTime":201.09,"endTime":206.09,"body":"appeal in January, 2019"},{"startTime":206.37,"endTime":211.08,"body":"and then two years later"},{"startTime":206.37,"endTime":211.08,"body":"to the Supreme Court."},{"startTime":211.08,"endTime":212.83,"body":"Will you welcome please, Lady Rose."},{"startTime":213.807,"endTime":216.807,"body":"(audience clapping)"},{"startTime":226.32,"endTime":227.153,"body":"- Good evening."},{"startTime":229.92,"endTime":233.64,"body":"It has been said that without a judiciary"},{"startTime":233.64,"endTime":236.4,"body":"which can and will administer law fairly"},{"startTime":236.4,"endTime":238.92,"body":"and fearlessly between parties,"},{"startTime":238.92,"endTime":242.16,"body":"no other guarantee given"},{"startTime":238.92,"endTime":242.16,"body":"to the litigants by the law"},{"startTime":242.16,"endTime":243.903,"body":"is likely to be of value."},{"startTime":244.8,"endTime":247.59,"body":"Over the centuries, there has"},{"startTime":244.8,"endTime":247.59,"body":"certainly been no shortage"},{"startTime":247.59,"endTime":251.07,"body":"of descriptions of the qualities"},{"startTime":247.59,"endTime":251.07,"body":"one should be looking for"},{"startTime":251.07,"endTime":254.103,"body":"in a judge from ancient times to modern."},{"startTime":254.94,"endTime":259.057,"body":"Socrates said, \"Four"},{"startTime":254.94,"endTime":259.057,"body":"things belong to a judge,"},{"startTime":259.057,"endTime":262.477,"body":"\"to listen courteously, to answer wisely,"},{"startTime":262.477,"endTime":267.21,"body":"\"to consider soberly, and"},{"startTime":262.477,"endTime":267.21,"body":"to decide impartially.\""},{"startTime":267.21,"endTime":271.44,"body":"In the Bible in the book of"},{"startTime":267.21,"endTime":271.44,"body":"Exodus Jethro advises Moses"},{"startTime":271.44,"endTime":273.75,"body":"to establish a judiciary system"},{"startTime":273.75,"endTime":276.27,"body":"to share the load of"},{"startTime":273.75,"endTime":276.27,"body":"deciding the legal disputes"},{"startTime":276.27,"endTime":279.18,"body":"that were taking up so much of his time."},{"startTime":279.18,"endTime":284.18,"body":"Jethro advises Moses to seek"},{"startTime":279.18,"endTime":284.18,"body":"out able men such as fear God,"},{"startTime":285.03,"endTime":288.003,"body":"men of truth, hating covertness."},{"startTime":289.08,"endTime":292.35,"body":"Moving forward in time,"},{"startTime":289.08,"endTime":292.35,"body":"sometimes judges themselves"},{"startTime":292.35,"endTime":295.2,"body":"give a perceptive insight"},{"startTime":292.35,"endTime":295.2,"body":"into what they think"},{"startTime":295.2,"endTime":297.57,"body":"will improve their performance."},{"startTime":297.57,"endTime":302.57,"body":"Sir Matthew Hale, Chief"},{"startTime":297.57,"endTime":302.57,"body":"Justice from 1671 to 1676"},{"startTime":302.85,"endTime":305.88,"body":"wrote for himself a number of resolutions"},{"startTime":305.88,"endTime":308.79,"body":"to which he no doubt tried to stick."},{"startTime":308.79,"endTime":313.11,"body":"These included that I suffer"},{"startTime":308.79,"endTime":313.11,"body":"not myself to be prepossessed"},{"startTime":313.11,"endTime":314.88,"body":"with any judgment at all,"},{"startTime":314.88,"endTime":318.54,"body":"till the whole business"},{"startTime":314.88,"endTime":318.54,"body":"in both parties be heard"},{"startTime":318.54,"endTime":322.83,"body":"and not to be solicitous"},{"startTime":318.54,"endTime":322.83,"body":"what men will say and think"},{"startTime":322.83,"endTime":324.33,"body":"so long as I keep myself"},{"startTime":324.33,"endTime":327.54,"body":"exactly according to the rule of justice"},{"startTime":327.54,"endTime":331.26,"body":"and also to be short and sparing at meals"},{"startTime":331.26,"endTime":333.423,"body":"that I may be fitter for business."},{"startTime":334.89,"endTime":337.23,"body":"In our own time, Lord"},{"startTime":334.89,"endTime":337.23,"body":"Neuberger of Abbotsbury"},{"startTime":337.23,"endTime":338.79,"body":"described the basic qualities"},{"startTime":338.79,"endTime":343.79,"body":"needed for a prejudge when"},{"startTime":338.79,"endTime":343.79,"body":"running a trial as grip,"},{"startTime":344.04,"endTime":346.92,"body":"authority, politeness, fairness,"},{"startTime":346.92,"endTime":351.183,"body":"an ability to simplify and an"},{"startTime":346.92,"endTime":351.183,"body":"ability to express yourself."},{"startTime":352.11,"endTime":354.21,"body":"Six principles are contained"},{"startTime":354.21,"endTime":357.24,"body":"in the Bangalore Principles"},{"startTime":354.21,"endTime":357.24,"body":"of Judicial Conduct"},{"startTime":357.24,"endTime":359.67,"body":"drafted for the"},{"startTime":357.24,"endTime":359.67,"body":"international judicial group"},{"startTime":359.67,"endTime":364.32,"body":"on strengthening judicial"},{"startTime":359.67,"endTime":364.32,"body":"integrity in November, 2002."},{"startTime":364.32,"endTime":367.08,"body":"Those principles are now"},{"startTime":364.32,"endTime":367.08,"body":"reflected in the code"},{"startTime":367.08,"endTime":370.65,"body":"that governs my conduct"},{"startTime":367.08,"endTime":370.65,"body":"and that of my colleagues"},{"startTime":370.65,"endTime":373.86,"body":"as judges in the courts"},{"startTime":370.65,"endTime":373.86,"body":"of England and Wales."},{"startTime":373.86,"endTime":375.39,"body":"The guide to judicial conduct"},{"startTime":375.39,"endTime":377.7,"body":"published by our judicial studies board"},{"startTime":377.7,"endTime":382.02,"body":"introduces in broad terms"},{"startTime":377.7,"endTime":382.02,"body":"the six Bangalore principles."},{"startTime":382.02,"endTime":386.58,"body":"They are judicial independence,"},{"startTime":382.02,"endTime":386.58,"body":"impartiality, integrity,"},{"startTime":386.58,"endTime":389.88,"body":"propriety, and the"},{"startTime":386.58,"endTime":389.88,"body":"appearance of propriety,"},{"startTime":389.88,"endTime":392.76,"body":"equality of treatment"},{"startTime":389.88,"endTime":392.76,"body":"to all before the courts"},{"startTime":392.76,"endTime":395.49,"body":"and competence and diligence."},{"startTime":395.49,"endTime":398.73,"body":"All those qualities that we"},{"startTime":395.49,"endTime":398.73,"body":"believe make a good judge"},{"startTime":398.73,"endTime":402.15,"body":"and more are subsumed"},{"startTime":398.73,"endTime":402.15,"body":"in the single criterion"},{"startTime":402.15,"endTime":403.83,"body":"for the appointment of judges"},{"startTime":403.83,"endTime":408.24,"body":"set out in the Constitutional"},{"startTime":403.83,"endTime":408.24,"body":"Reform Act 2005."},{"startTime":408.24,"endTime":412.23,"body":"This provides in section 63"},{"startTime":408.24,"endTime":412.23,"body":"subsection two of that act,"},{"startTime":412.23,"endTime":416.67,"body":"that the selection of judges"},{"startTime":412.23,"endTime":416.67,"body":"must be solely on merit."},{"startTime":416.67,"endTime":419.82,"body":"But what does merit mean in this context?"},{"startTime":419.82,"endTime":422.67,"body":"Has the content of that word changed"},{"startTime":422.67,"endTime":426.51,"body":"since the enactment of the"},{"startTime":422.67,"endTime":426.51,"body":"CRA and more specifically,"},{"startTime":426.51,"endTime":429.33,"body":"what can we learn from the"},{"startTime":426.51,"endTime":429.33,"body":"overhaul of the processes"},{"startTime":429.33,"endTime":434.283,"body":"for appointing judges about who"},{"startTime":429.33,"endTime":434.283,"body":"we think makes a good judge?"},{"startTime":435.24,"endTime":437.01,"body":"Before the changes brought about"},{"startTime":437.01,"endTime":439.65,"body":"by the Constitutional Reform Act,"},{"startTime":439.65,"endTime":442.11,"body":"the assumption was that if you are a good"},{"startTime":442.11,"endTime":444.03,"body":"and successful barrister,"},{"startTime":444.03,"endTime":447.21,"body":"then you would make a good senior judge."},{"startTime":447.21,"endTime":449.49,"body":"It's always been rather mysterious to me"},{"startTime":449.49,"endTime":454.17,"body":"as to why that assumption"},{"startTime":449.49,"endTime":454.17,"body":"lasted for such a long time."},{"startTime":454.17,"endTime":457.41,"body":"Many of the skills needed"},{"startTime":454.17,"endTime":457.41,"body":"for being a top barrister"},{"startTime":457.41,"endTime":460.68,"body":"are not at all what you"},{"startTime":457.41,"endTime":460.68,"body":"need to be a good judge,"},{"startTime":460.68,"endTime":464.4,"body":"a single-minded pursuit of"},{"startTime":460.68,"endTime":464.4,"body":"one side of the argument only"},{"startTime":464.4,"endTime":466.44,"body":"an ability to cross-examine witnesses"},{"startTime":466.44,"endTime":469.47,"body":"to make them say what"},{"startTime":466.44,"endTime":469.47,"body":"you want them to say."},{"startTime":469.47,"endTime":472.44,"body":"An ability to make a"},{"startTime":469.47,"endTime":472.44,"body":"thoroughly bad legal submission"},{"startTime":472.44,"endTime":475.11,"body":"seem plausible and attractive."},{"startTime":475.11,"endTime":476.28,"body":"All those are talents"},{"startTime":476.28,"endTime":478.86,"body":"which one would hope the barrister can"},{"startTime":478.86,"endTime":483.093,"body":"and must firmly put aside on"},{"startTime":478.86,"endTime":483.093,"body":"attaining judicial office."},{"startTime":484.08,"endTime":485.88,"body":"Not only was there that assumption"},{"startTime":485.88,"endTime":488.64,"body":"that good barrister equals good judge,"},{"startTime":488.64,"endTime":490.86,"body":"but it was so strong that it was thought"},{"startTime":490.86,"endTime":494.07,"body":"that a successful barrister"},{"startTime":490.86,"endTime":494.07,"body":"would not need any training"},{"startTime":494.07,"endTime":496.65,"body":"on making the move to the bench."},{"startTime":496.65,"endTime":498.57,"body":"Lord Judge former chief justice"},{"startTime":498.57,"endTime":499.8,"body":"has remarked in a lecture"},{"startTime":499.8,"endTime":503.07,"body":"given to the Judicial Studies Board,"},{"startTime":503.07,"endTime":505.14,"body":"that when he was"},{"startTime":503.07,"endTime":505.14,"body":"appointed to be a recorder"},{"startTime":505.14,"endTime":507.69,"body":"of the Crown Court in 1976,"},{"startTime":507.69,"endTime":512.69,"body":"he sat for two years before he"},{"startTime":507.69,"endTime":512.69,"body":"received any training at all."},{"startTime":513.36,"endTime":516.54,"body":"That was not he says with"},{"startTime":513.36,"endTime":516.54,"body":"characteristic modesty"},{"startTime":516.54,"endTime":518.97,"body":"because of his remarkable talents,"},{"startTime":518.97,"endTime":522.09,"body":"but there was not thought"},{"startTime":518.97,"endTime":522.09,"body":"to be any need for training."},{"startTime":522.09,"endTime":525.63,"body":"Indeed, he notes that at the"},{"startTime":522.09,"endTime":525.63,"body":"time the Judicial Studies Board"},{"startTime":525.63,"endTime":529.05,"body":"was set up, there was"},{"startTime":525.63,"endTime":529.05,"body":"significant judicial antipathy"},{"startTime":529.05,"endTime":532.11,"body":"towards it with many thinking the training"},{"startTime":532.11,"endTime":535.41,"body":"was an interference with"},{"startTime":532.11,"endTime":535.41,"body":"judicial independence."},{"startTime":535.41,"endTime":538.53,"body":"The fact that it was called"},{"startTime":535.41,"endTime":538.53,"body":"the Judicial Studies Board"},{"startTime":538.53,"endTime":540.78,"body":"was a deliberate attempt to reconcile"},{"startTime":540.78,"endTime":543.18,"body":"those who thought that they were demeaned"},{"startTime":543.18,"endTime":546.51,"body":"by the implication that"},{"startTime":543.18,"endTime":546.51,"body":"they might need training"},{"startTime":546.51,"endTime":549.54,"body":"in the performance of"},{"startTime":546.51,"endTime":549.54,"body":"their responsibilities."},{"startTime":549.54,"endTime":553.2,"body":"By 2013 when Lord Judge"},{"startTime":549.54,"endTime":553.2,"body":"was giving his lecture,"},{"startTime":553.2,"endTime":555.66,"body":"he said that judges now welcome training"},{"startTime":555.66,"endTime":557.55,"body":"and know that it has no bearing"},{"startTime":557.55,"endTime":560.01,"body":"whatever on their independence."},{"startTime":560.01,"endTime":562.26,"body":"Being a judge in the modern world he says,"},{"startTime":562.26,"endTime":565.83,"body":"does not merely require"},{"startTime":562.26,"endTime":565.83,"body":"such education and training."},{"startTime":565.83,"endTime":567.75,"body":"It requires a frame of mind"},{"startTime":567.75,"endTime":570.543,"body":"in which these positive"},{"startTime":567.75,"endTime":570.543,"body":"advantages are welcomed."},{"startTime":572.01,"endTime":574.65,"body":"I think the reason why it was"},{"startTime":572.01,"endTime":574.65,"body":"assumed that good barristers"},{"startTime":574.65,"endTime":578.67,"body":"make good judges was the"},{"startTime":574.65,"endTime":578.67,"body":"preeminent given for so long"},{"startTime":578.67,"endTime":580.56,"body":"to intellectual ability"},{"startTime":580.56,"endTime":583.35,"body":"and intellectual ability of a certain kind"},{"startTime":583.35,"endTime":587.13,"body":"to the exclusion of almost"},{"startTime":583.35,"endTime":587.13,"body":"every other quality."},{"startTime":587.13,"endTime":590.37,"body":"Judges see that the barristers"},{"startTime":587.13,"endTime":590.37,"body":"appearing in front of them"},{"startTime":590.37,"endTime":592.74,"body":"are dealing with not illegal problems"},{"startTime":592.74,"endTime":594.9,"body":"or sorting out from a"},{"startTime":592.74,"endTime":594.9,"body":"(indistinct) of evidence,"},{"startTime":594.9,"endTime":598.38,"body":"what is and is not relevant"},{"startTime":594.9,"endTime":598.38,"body":"day in and day out."},{"startTime":598.38,"endTime":601.713,"body":"And that is also the daily"},{"startTime":598.38,"endTime":601.713,"body":"fair of the working judge."},{"startTime":603.06,"endTime":607.98,"body":"It is true that you do need to"},{"startTime":603.06,"endTime":607.98,"body":"be very clever to do my job."},{"startTime":607.98,"endTime":611.97,"body":"And it's a particular kind"},{"startTime":607.98,"endTime":611.97,"body":"of cleverness that is needed."},{"startTime":611.97,"endTime":614.55,"body":"I was thinking of this"},{"startTime":611.97,"endTime":614.55,"body":"when reading a biography"},{"startTime":614.55,"endTime":618.99,"body":"of the great physicist,"},{"startTime":614.55,"endTime":618.99,"body":"J. Robert Oppenheimer."},{"startTime":618.99,"endTime":620.85,"body":"He and the other physicists"},{"startTime":620.85,"endTime":622.83,"body":"who unlocked the secrets of the atom"},{"startTime":622.83,"endTime":624.9,"body":"in the early 20th century"},{"startTime":624.9,"endTime":627.03,"body":"and worked on the Manhattan project"},{"startTime":627.03,"endTime":629.1,"body":"were clearly very clever,"},{"startTime":629.1,"endTime":631.59,"body":"but were their brains wired up differently"},{"startTime":631.59,"endTime":635.43,"body":"from those of say, Lord"},{"startTime":631.59,"endTime":635.43,"body":"Atkin or Lord Wilberforce?"},{"startTime":635.43,"endTime":639.3,"body":"If the young Tom Bingham had"},{"startTime":635.43,"endTime":639.3,"body":"decided to become a scientist"},{"startTime":639.3,"endTime":640.92,"body":"rather than a lawyer,"},{"startTime":640.92,"endTime":643.59,"body":"would he have excelled"},{"startTime":640.92,"endTime":643.59,"body":"at that in the same way"},{"startTime":643.59,"endTime":646.113,"body":"as luckily for us, he did in the law?"},{"startTime":647.28,"endTime":649.26,"body":"One difference that strikes me is that,"},{"startTime":649.26,"endTime":651.75,"body":"Oppenheimer (indistinct)"},{"startTime":649.26,"endTime":651.75,"body":"Noiman and their colleagues"},{"startTime":651.75,"endTime":653.73,"body":"thought about, debated,"},{"startTime":653.73,"endTime":658.29,"body":"and puzzled out the structure"},{"startTime":653.73,"endTime":658.29,"body":"of the atom over many decades."},{"startTime":658.29,"endTime":660.9,"body":"The ability that a good"},{"startTime":658.29,"endTime":660.9,"body":"judge needs to have"},{"startTime":660.9,"endTime":664.98,"body":"is absorb a massive"},{"startTime":660.9,"endTime":664.98,"body":"information in a day or so,"},{"startTime":664.98,"endTime":666.39,"body":"even in the Supreme Court"},{"startTime":666.39,"endTime":669.42,"body":"with the press of many"},{"startTime":666.39,"endTime":669.42,"body":"different demands on our time,"},{"startTime":669.42,"endTime":672.45,"body":"we us usually have the most two days"},{"startTime":672.45,"endTime":675.21,"body":"in which to learn usually from scratch"},{"startTime":675.21,"endTime":679.44,"body":"the factual and legal content"},{"startTime":675.21,"endTime":679.44,"body":"of a case before the hearing."},{"startTime":679.44,"endTime":683.34,"body":"The topics covered by the"},{"startTime":679.44,"endTime":683.34,"body":"work are tremendously varied."},{"startTime":683.34,"endTime":685.44,"body":"In my judicial work in the Supreme Court"},{"startTime":685.44,"endTime":687.99,"body":"and the judicial committee"},{"startTime":685.44,"endTime":687.99,"body":"of the Privy Council,"},{"startTime":687.99,"endTime":690.15,"body":"I have dealt with many cases in areas"},{"startTime":690.15,"endTime":692.28,"body":"that were entirely unknown to me"},{"startTime":692.28,"endTime":694.83,"body":"before I clicked on the electronic bundle"},{"startTime":694.83,"endTime":698.043,"body":"to prepare for the hearing"},{"startTime":694.83,"endTime":698.043,"body":"coming up in a few days time."},{"startTime":698.91,"endTime":701.55,"body":"These include the international legal"},{"startTime":701.55,"endTime":704.82,"body":"and institutional framework"},{"startTime":701.55,"endTime":704.82,"body":"governing fishing for tuna"},{"startTime":704.82,"endTime":706.8,"body":"in the south Pacific,"},{"startTime":706.8,"endTime":708.99,"body":"the rights to water flowing in rivers"},{"startTime":708.99,"endTime":712.29,"body":"and canals in Mauritius or closer to home"},{"startTime":712.29,"endTime":715.56,"body":"the operation of the qualified"},{"startTime":712.29,"endTime":715.56,"body":"one way cost shifting regime"},{"startTime":715.56,"endTime":719.49,"body":"in the CPR, as well as many"},{"startTime":715.56,"endTime":719.49,"body":"mind numbingly complicated"},{"startTime":719.49,"endTime":722.88,"body":"tax cases about VAT corporation tax"},{"startTime":722.88,"endTime":725.34,"body":"and the taxation of dividends."},{"startTime":725.34,"endTime":727.53,"body":"So every judge has to be clever enough"},{"startTime":727.53,"endTime":731.25,"body":"to be able within the space"},{"startTime":727.53,"endTime":731.25,"body":"really of a few hours,"},{"startTime":731.25,"endTime":734.31,"body":"not only to read and"},{"startTime":731.25,"endTime":734.31,"body":"understand the material,"},{"startTime":734.31,"endTime":737.01,"body":"but to get themselves"},{"startTime":734.31,"endTime":737.01,"body":"in a position to decide"},{"startTime":737.01,"endTime":740.76,"body":"which of the two competing"},{"startTime":737.01,"endTime":740.76,"body":"sets of submissions is right."},{"startTime":740.76,"endTime":743.43,"body":"To be able to challenge"},{"startTime":740.76,"endTime":743.43,"body":"those submissions of counsel"},{"startTime":743.43,"endTime":746.31,"body":"who may well have been"},{"startTime":743.43,"endTime":746.31,"body":"working on the case for years,"},{"startTime":746.31,"endTime":749.28,"body":"to discuss the case"},{"startTime":746.31,"endTime":749.28,"body":"intelligently with colleagues"},{"startTime":749.28,"endTime":752.22,"body":"and then write a judgment or"},{"startTime":749.28,"endTime":752.22,"body":"comment on a draft judgment"},{"startTime":752.22,"endTime":754.17,"body":"written by someone else."},{"startTime":754.17,"endTime":757.41,"body":"From start to finish, the"},{"startTime":754.17,"endTime":757.41,"body":"judge's involvement with the case"},{"startTime":757.41,"endTime":759.48,"body":"may last a few weeks or months"},{"startTime":759.48,"endTime":762.3,"body":"at the end of which the"},{"startTime":759.48,"endTime":762.3,"body":"judge may have to produce"},{"startTime":762.3,"endTime":765.36,"body":"an authoritative and recent decision."},{"startTime":765.36,"endTime":768.783,"body":"And that takes a particular"},{"startTime":765.36,"endTime":768.783,"body":"kind of intellectual ability."},{"startTime":769.8,"endTime":772.35,"body":"Though I'm not sure whether"},{"startTime":769.8,"endTime":772.35,"body":"that answers my question"},{"startTime":772.35,"endTime":775.8,"body":"about whether Lord Bingham"},{"startTime":772.35,"endTime":775.8,"body":"in some counterfactual world"},{"startTime":775.8,"endTime":777.93,"body":"could have invented the atomic bomb"},{"startTime":777.93,"endTime":780.81,"body":"or indeed whether Jay Robert Oppenheimer"},{"startTime":780.81,"endTime":782.58,"body":"could have written the judgment in a..."},{"startTime":782.58,"endTime":785.33,"body":"Against the Secretary of"},{"startTime":782.58,"endTime":785.33,"body":"State for the Home Department."},{"startTime":786.6,"endTime":789.21,"body":"There is fortunately and"},{"startTime":786.6,"endTime":789.21,"body":"increasing recognition"},{"startTime":789.21,"endTime":791.37,"body":"reflected in judicial appointments,"},{"startTime":791.37,"endTime":794.37,"body":"that barristers in private"},{"startTime":791.37,"endTime":794.37,"body":"practice do not by any means"},{"startTime":794.37,"endTime":797.55,"body":"have a monopoly on the kind"},{"startTime":794.37,"endTime":797.55,"body":"of intellectual ability"},{"startTime":797.55,"endTime":800.1,"body":"that is needed to become a judge."},{"startTime":800.1,"endTime":802.53,"body":"And this raises the allied question"},{"startTime":802.53,"endTime":805.65,"body":"of how far experience"},{"startTime":802.53,"endTime":805.65,"body":"of court based advocacy"},{"startTime":805.65,"endTime":807.54,"body":"or litigation more generally"},{"startTime":807.54,"endTime":810.93,"body":"is a prerequisite for being a good judge."},{"startTime":810.93,"endTime":813.6,"body":"I'm often asked when I"},{"startTime":810.93,"endTime":813.6,"body":"give talks to the lawyers"},{"startTime":813.6,"endTime":814.95,"body":"in the government legal service"},{"startTime":814.95,"endTime":817.86,"body":"where I work for many years of my career"},{"startTime":817.86,"endTime":821.73,"body":"or to solicitors who are not"},{"startTime":817.86,"endTime":821.73,"body":"in a dispute resolution team,"},{"startTime":821.73,"endTime":824.76,"body":"whether I think that having"},{"startTime":821.73,"endTime":824.76,"body":"experience of court work"},{"startTime":824.76,"endTime":828.87,"body":"is necessary before applying"},{"startTime":824.76,"endTime":828.87,"body":"for judicial appointment."},{"startTime":828.87,"endTime":830.49,"body":"My answer is usually,"},{"startTime":830.49,"endTime":833.1,"body":"that you might struggle"},{"startTime":830.49,"endTime":833.1,"body":"to settle in as a judge"},{"startTime":833.1,"endTime":835.86,"body":"if you did not start out with a rough idea"},{"startTime":835.86,"endTime":838.65,"body":"of what the relevant procedural rules say,"},{"startTime":838.65,"endTime":841.65,"body":"if you had never seen a"},{"startTime":838.65,"endTime":841.65,"body":"set of pleadings before,"},{"startTime":841.65,"endTime":845.793,"body":"or didn't know the basics for"},{"startTime":841.65,"endTime":845.793,"body":"an interlocutory injunction."},{"startTime":846.66,"endTime":849.3,"body":"However, maybe I'm being too parochial."},{"startTime":849.3,"endTime":853.29,"body":"Some other jurisdictions operate"},{"startTime":849.3,"endTime":853.29,"body":"on a very different basis."},{"startTime":853.29,"endTime":855.33,"body":"For example, in France,"},{"startTime":855.33,"endTime":859.38,"body":"a lawyer can qualify as a judge"},{"startTime":855.33,"endTime":859.38,"body":"straight out of university"},{"startTime":859.38,"endTime":861.81,"body":"and judges are not ordinarily recruited"},{"startTime":861.81,"endTime":863.88,"body":"from the ranks of lawyers."},{"startTime":863.88,"endTime":865.95,"body":"They are specifically trained for the role"},{"startTime":865.95,"endTime":868.02,"body":"via a standalone process"},{"startTime":868.02,"endTime":870.15,"body":"and it's common for a"},{"startTime":868.02,"endTime":870.15,"body":"person to become a judge"},{"startTime":870.15,"endTime":871.593,"body":"before they turn 30."},{"startTime":872.58,"endTime":874.29,"body":"With certain exceptions,"},{"startTime":874.29,"endTime":876.18,"body":"most aspiring judges in France"},{"startTime":876.18,"endTime":877.26,"body":"are required to train"},{"startTime":877.26,"endTime":881.04,"body":"at the Ecole Nationale de"},{"startTime":877.26,"endTime":881.04,"body":"la Magistrature in Bordeaux."},{"startTime":881.04,"endTime":884.55,"body":"This is the only judicial"},{"startTime":881.04,"endTime":884.55,"body":"training school in the country."},{"startTime":884.55,"endTime":885.78,"body":"Admission to that school"},{"startTime":885.78,"endTime":888.78,"body":"is determined by competitive examination."},{"startTime":888.78,"endTime":891.3,"body":"The coursework lasts over 30 months,"},{"startTime":891.3,"endTime":894.18,"body":"followed by a cycle of"},{"startTime":891.3,"endTime":894.18,"body":"traineeships in the court system"},{"startTime":894.18,"endTime":896.1,"body":"and supporting agencies."},{"startTime":896.1,"endTime":897.42,"body":"And at the end of this period,"},{"startTime":897.42,"endTime":900.06,"body":"a prospective judge takes another exam"},{"startTime":900.06,"endTime":903.42,"body":"and is presented with a list"},{"startTime":900.06,"endTime":903.42,"body":"of available judicial posts"},{"startTime":903.42,"endTime":906.12,"body":"prepared by the Ministry of Justice."},{"startTime":906.12,"endTime":909.63,"body":"Initial appointments are made"},{"startTime":906.12,"endTime":909.63,"body":"on the basis of exam scores."},{"startTime":909.63,"endTime":911.64,"body":"Those receiving the highest scores"},{"startTime":911.64,"endTime":913.71,"body":"get the pick of positions."},{"startTime":913.71,"endTime":916.56,"body":"And most ENM graduates are"},{"startTime":913.71,"endTime":916.56,"body":"appointed to a judgeship"},{"startTime":916.56,"endTime":918.78,"body":"in the provinces at the lowest level,"},{"startTime":918.78,"endTime":920.7,"body":"working as investigating judges"},{"startTime":920.7,"endTime":924.72,"body":"or members of benches"},{"startTime":920.7,"endTime":924.72,"body":"adjudicating minor criminal cases."},{"startTime":924.72,"endTime":926.91,"body":"They then work their way"},{"startTime":924.72,"endTime":926.91,"body":"up the judicial ladder"},{"startTime":926.91,"endTime":930.663,"body":"throughout a long career"},{"startTime":926.91,"endTime":930.663,"body":"entirely within the judiciary."},{"startTime":931.98,"endTime":934.59,"body":"By contrast, although"},{"startTime":931.98,"endTime":934.59,"body":"the previous focus here"},{"startTime":934.59,"endTime":936.3,"body":"on appointing barristers"},{"startTime":936.3,"endTime":940.14,"body":"suggests that merit does include"},{"startTime":936.3,"endTime":940.14,"body":"experience of court work."},{"startTime":940.14,"endTime":944.25,"body":"The idea of a career judiciary"},{"startTime":940.14,"endTime":944.25,"body":"used to be almost unheard of"},{"startTime":944.25,"endTime":946.65,"body":"in the United Kingdom courts."},{"startTime":946.65,"endTime":948.27,"body":"People tended to choose the level"},{"startTime":948.27,"endTime":951.15,"body":"at which they wanted to"},{"startTime":948.27,"endTime":951.15,"body":"join the judicial system"},{"startTime":951.15,"endTime":952.77,"body":"and they expected to stay there"},{"startTime":952.77,"endTime":955.35,"body":"for the whole of their judicial career."},{"startTime":955.35,"endTime":958.47,"body":"In more recent years, there"},{"startTime":955.35,"endTime":958.47,"body":"has been more movement."},{"startTime":958.47,"endTime":961.05,"body":"For example, of judges"},{"startTime":958.47,"endTime":961.05,"body":"appointed in the crown court,"},{"startTime":961.05,"endTime":962.88,"body":"moving to the high court bench"},{"startTime":962.88,"endTime":965.19,"body":"and judges in the tribunal service"},{"startTime":965.19,"endTime":967.83,"body":"where I had my first judicial experience"},{"startTime":967.83,"endTime":971.28,"body":"moving to be district"},{"startTime":967.83,"endTime":971.28,"body":"judges or high court judges."},{"startTime":971.28,"endTime":974.07,"body":"This has benefits for diversity too"},{"startTime":974.07,"endTime":976.05,"body":"as those branches of the judiciary"},{"startTime":976.05,"endTime":978.99,"body":"tend to have a better"},{"startTime":976.05,"endTime":978.99,"body":"gender and ethnic balance,"},{"startTime":978.99,"endTime":980.853,"body":"something I'll discuss more later."},{"startTime":982.35,"endTime":984.63,"body":"Moving on from intellectual ability,"},{"startTime":984.63,"endTime":987.54,"body":"there has always been at least"},{"startTime":984.63,"endTime":987.54,"body":"one additional requirement"},{"startTime":987.54,"endTime":989.013,"body":"for being a good judge."},{"startTime":990.96,"endTime":993.09,"body":"And this is now also encapsulated"},{"startTime":993.09,"endTime":996.333,"body":"in section 63 of the"},{"startTime":993.09,"endTime":996.333,"body":"Constitutional Reform Act."},{"startTime":997.2,"endTime":1001.677,"body":"Section 63.3 says \"That a"},{"startTime":997.2,"endTime":1001.677,"body":"person must not be selected"},{"startTime":1001.677,"endTime":1004.257,"body":"\"unless the selecting body is satisfied"},{"startTime":1004.257,"endTime":1006.407,"body":"\"that they are of good character.\""},{"startTime":1007.52,"endTime":1009.23,"body":"The Judicial Appointments Commission"},{"startTime":1009.23,"endTime":1012.02,"body":"provides useful guidance"},{"startTime":1009.23,"endTime":1012.02,"body":"to would be applicants"},{"startTime":1012.02,"endTime":1015.41,"body":"about how it assesses good character."},{"startTime":1015.41,"endTime":1018.47,"body":"The principles it adopts"},{"startTime":1015.41,"endTime":1018.47,"body":"are based it says,"},{"startTime":1018.47,"endTime":1021.56,"body":"on the overriding need to"},{"startTime":1018.47,"endTime":1021.56,"body":"maintain public confidence"},{"startTime":1021.56,"endTime":1023.6,"body":"in the standards of the judiciary"},{"startTime":1023.6,"endTime":1027.2,"body":"and the fact that public"},{"startTime":1023.6,"endTime":1027.2,"body":"confidence will only be maintained"},{"startTime":1027.2,"endTime":1028.76,"body":"if judicial office holders"},{"startTime":1028.76,"endTime":1031.34,"body":"maintain the highest standards of behavior"},{"startTime":1031.34,"endTime":1035.51,"body":"in their professional,"},{"startTime":1031.34,"endTime":1035.51,"body":"public and private lives."},{"startTime":1035.51,"endTime":1039.17,"body":"It's interesting to see how"},{"startTime":1035.51,"endTime":1039.17,"body":"the content of this requirement"},{"startTime":1039.17,"endTime":1041.75,"body":"reflects the modern zeitgeist."},{"startTime":1041.75,"endTime":1043.763,"body":"Let me give three examples."},{"startTime":1044.69,"endTime":1047.33,"body":"The first is that as you might expect,"},{"startTime":1047.33,"endTime":1051.08,"body":"conviction of a criminal offense"},{"startTime":1047.33,"endTime":1051.08,"body":"is likely to disqualify you"},{"startTime":1051.08,"endTime":1053.12,"body":"from holding office."},{"startTime":1053.12,"endTime":1056.21,"body":"Judicial appointments are"},{"startTime":1053.12,"endTime":1056.21,"body":"covered by the exceptions order"},{"startTime":1056.21,"endTime":1059.84,"body":"to the Rehabilitation"},{"startTime":1056.21,"endTime":1059.84,"body":"of Offenders Act 1974"},{"startTime":1059.84,"endTime":1062.33,"body":"so that spent convictions and cautions"},{"startTime":1062.33,"endTime":1066.14,"body":"are not protected from"},{"startTime":1062.33,"endTime":1066.14,"body":"disclosure for these purposes."},{"startTime":1066.14,"endTime":1068.6,"body":"The JAC takes all criminal convictions"},{"startTime":1068.6,"endTime":1070.49,"body":"and cautions seriously"},{"startTime":1070.49,"endTime":1074.12,"body":"and you must disclose to the"},{"startTime":1070.49,"endTime":1074.12,"body":"JAC any you have received"},{"startTime":1074.12,"endTime":1077.153,"body":"regardless of whether"},{"startTime":1074.12,"endTime":1077.153,"body":"they are spent or unspent."},{"startTime":1078.29,"endTime":1080.69,"body":"However, forgiveness is not entirely alien"},{"startTime":1080.69,"endTime":1082.7,"body":"to the selection process."},{"startTime":1082.7,"endTime":1086.15,"body":"As a general guide, the JAC"},{"startTime":1082.7,"endTime":1086.15,"body":"may consider you suitable"},{"startTime":1086.15,"endTime":1088.94,"body":"for appointment following"},{"startTime":1086.15,"endTime":1088.94,"body":"a period of six years"},{"startTime":1088.94,"endTime":1091.19,"body":"after you have received a caution"},{"startTime":1091.19,"endTime":1094.76,"body":"or a period of 11 years"},{"startTime":1091.19,"endTime":1094.76,"body":"following a conviction."},{"startTime":1094.76,"endTime":1097.34,"body":"The JAC as one might also expect"},{"startTime":1097.34,"endTime":1100.523,"body":"makes each decision on"},{"startTime":1097.34,"endTime":1100.523,"body":"a case by case basis."},{"startTime":1101.57,"endTime":1106.49,"body":"The attitude towards motoring"},{"startTime":1101.57,"endTime":1106.49,"body":"offenses is quite nuanced."},{"startTime":1106.49,"endTime":1109.1,"body":"In general, the JAC guidance says"},{"startTime":1109.1,"endTime":1111.08,"body":"any conviction for a motoring offense"},{"startTime":1111.08,"endTime":1112.52,"body":"will be treated in the same way"},{"startTime":1112.52,"endTime":1114.86,"body":"as any other criminal conviction"},{"startTime":1114.86,"endTime":1117.23,"body":"and a conviction for an"},{"startTime":1114.86,"endTime":1117.23,"body":"offense related to driving"},{"startTime":1117.23,"endTime":1119.72,"body":"under the influence of alcohol or drugs"},{"startTime":1119.72,"endTime":1123.44,"body":"is likely to prevent your"},{"startTime":1119.72,"endTime":1123.44,"body":"application from proceeding."},{"startTime":1123.44,"endTime":1127.64,"body":"Conversely, parking tickets"},{"startTime":1123.44,"endTime":1127.64,"body":"or speeding offenses"},{"startTime":1127.64,"endTime":1129.98,"body":"dealt with by way of an informal warning"},{"startTime":1129.98,"endTime":1132.05,"body":"or a speed awareness course"},{"startTime":1132.05,"endTime":1134.69,"body":"do not have to be declared."},{"startTime":1134.69,"endTime":1137.12,"body":"In between our fixed penalty notices"},{"startTime":1137.12,"endTime":1139.85,"body":"including for moving vehicle offenses."},{"startTime":1139.85,"endTime":1142.79,"body":"Although they do not form"},{"startTime":1139.85,"endTime":1142.79,"body":"part of your criminal record,"},{"startTime":1142.79,"endTime":1146.9,"body":"they must be declared if"},{"startTime":1142.79,"endTime":1146.9,"body":"received in the last four years."},{"startTime":1146.9,"endTime":1149.69,"body":"The obligation to disclose"},{"startTime":1146.9,"endTime":1149.69,"body":"is a continuing one"},{"startTime":1149.69,"endTime":1152.18,"body":"and this is made very"},{"startTime":1149.69,"endTime":1152.18,"body":"clear in the application"},{"startTime":1152.18,"endTime":1157.18,"body":"and unfortunately became"},{"startTime":1152.18,"endTime":1157.18,"body":"relevant to my own application"},{"startTime":1157.19,"endTime":1159.593,"body":"for appointment to the high court bench."},{"startTime":1160.46,"endTime":1164.03,"body":"The only time I've been fined"},{"startTime":1160.46,"endTime":1164.03,"body":"for a moving vehicle offense"},{"startTime":1164.03,"endTime":1167.18,"body":"was a week or so after I"},{"startTime":1164.03,"endTime":1167.18,"body":"had submitted my application"},{"startTime":1167.18,"endTime":1168.923,"body":"to join the Chancery Division,"},{"startTime":1170.36,"endTime":1172.88,"body":"I accidentally drove in a bus lane"},{"startTime":1172.88,"endTime":1175.25,"body":"in my increasingly frantic attempts"},{"startTime":1175.25,"endTime":1178.07,"body":"to escape the St Auburn's one-way system,"},{"startTime":1178.07,"endTime":1179.78,"body":"trying to find the Crown Court"},{"startTime":1179.78,"endTime":1181.853,"body":"where I was due to sit as a recorder."},{"startTime":1183.5,"endTime":1185.24,"body":"If it had been a criminal offense"},{"startTime":1185.24,"endTime":1188.42,"body":"to be driving a motorized"},{"startTime":1185.24,"endTime":1188.42,"body":"vehicle on a public highway"},{"startTime":1188.42,"endTime":1189.95,"body":"while sobbing,"},{"startTime":1189.95,"endTime":1192.773,"body":"I would've had to have"},{"startTime":1189.95,"endTime":1192.773,"body":"fessed up to that as well."},{"startTime":1193.76,"endTime":1196.7,"body":"Fortunately, the panel"},{"startTime":1193.76,"endTime":1196.7,"body":"was in a forgiving mood"},{"startTime":1196.7,"endTime":1199.85,"body":"and my trespass did not"},{"startTime":1196.7,"endTime":1199.85,"body":"result in my judicial career"},{"startTime":1199.85,"endTime":1201.383,"body":"meeting a premature end."},{"startTime":1202.76,"endTime":1206.32,"body":"The second aspect of good"},{"startTime":1202.76,"endTime":1206.32,"body":"character stressed by the JAC"},{"startTime":1206.32,"endTime":1209.81,"body":"is the importance of your"},{"startTime":1206.32,"endTime":1209.81,"body":"tax affairs being in order"},{"startTime":1209.81,"endTime":1212.54,"body":"and of complying in a"},{"startTime":1209.81,"endTime":1212.54,"body":"straightforward and transparent way"},{"startTime":1212.54,"endTime":1215.54,"body":"with your obligations in relation to tax."},{"startTime":1215.54,"endTime":1217.76,"body":"And this, I would"},{"startTime":1215.54,"endTime":1217.76,"body":"suggest properly reflects"},{"startTime":1217.76,"endTime":1221.99,"body":"the current sense that good"},{"startTime":1217.76,"endTime":1221.99,"body":"citizens and hence good judges"},{"startTime":1221.99,"endTime":1223.493,"body":"should pay their taxes."},{"startTime":1224.51,"endTime":1226.55,"body":"Sticking with money for the moment,"},{"startTime":1226.55,"endTime":1228.26,"body":"I came across a fascinating"},{"startTime":1228.26,"endTime":1230.36,"body":"if slightly (indistinct) article"},{"startTime":1230.36,"endTime":1232.7,"body":"by the late Professor Peter Burkes"},{"startTime":1232.7,"endTime":1235.97,"body":"discussing a recent discovery"},{"startTime":1232.7,"endTime":1235.97,"body":"by metal detectorists"},{"startTime":1235.97,"endTime":1240.71,"body":"in civilian Spain of 10"},{"startTime":1235.97,"endTime":1240.71,"body":"bronze inscribed tablets"},{"startTime":1240.71,"endTime":1243.08,"body":"dating back to AD 91,"},{"startTime":1243.08,"endTime":1246.2,"body":"the rule of the Roman Emperor Demitchel."},{"startTime":1246.2,"endTime":1249.23,"body":"One of the many topics"},{"startTime":1246.2,"endTime":1249.23,"body":"covered by the inscriptions"},{"startTime":1249.23,"endTime":1252.89,"body":"were the qualifications for"},{"startTime":1249.23,"endTime":1252.89,"body":"appointment to the judiciary."},{"startTime":1252.89,"endTime":1255.5,"body":"This discloses that in"},{"startTime":1252.89,"endTime":1255.5,"body":"order to be appointed"},{"startTime":1255.5,"endTime":1257.21,"body":"to be a judge in Rome"},{"startTime":1257.21,"endTime":1260.54,"body":"a candidate had to have"},{"startTime":1257.21,"endTime":1260.54,"body":"a certain amount of money"},{"startTime":1260.54,"endTime":1262.85,"body":"and the higher the judicial office"},{"startTime":1262.85,"endTime":1265.76,"body":"the more money he had to have."},{"startTime":1265.76,"endTime":1267.86,"body":"It's difficult to see what quality"},{"startTime":1267.86,"endTime":1270.26,"body":"this was supposed to reflect."},{"startTime":1270.26,"endTime":1272.96,"body":"It does not seem to have been"},{"startTime":1270.26,"endTime":1272.96,"body":"a proxy for the candidate"},{"startTime":1272.96,"endTime":1275.36,"body":"being hard working and industrious"},{"startTime":1275.36,"endTime":1278.24,"body":"because it is clear that"},{"startTime":1275.36,"endTime":1278.24,"body":"money could be inherited"},{"startTime":1278.24,"endTime":1280.46,"body":"from the judge's father."},{"startTime":1280.46,"endTime":1283.13,"body":"If the thought was that"},{"startTime":1280.46,"endTime":1283.13,"body":"judges with a lot of money"},{"startTime":1283.13,"endTime":1285.26,"body":"would be less amenable to be bribed"},{"startTime":1285.26,"endTime":1288.2,"body":"because they already had enough money"},{"startTime":1288.2,"endTime":1291.71,"body":"that shows, I think, a"},{"startTime":1288.2,"endTime":1291.71,"body":"naivety about human nature"},{"startTime":1291.71,"endTime":1294.53,"body":"which is uncharacteristic"},{"startTime":1291.71,"endTime":1294.53,"body":"of the Roman society"},{"startTime":1294.53,"endTime":1297.683,"body":"that otherwise emerges from"},{"startTime":1294.53,"endTime":1297.683,"body":"Roman law more generally."},{"startTime":1299.21,"endTime":1300.89,"body":"The third aspect of good character"},{"startTime":1300.89,"endTime":1302.63,"body":"that I would like to focus on"},{"startTime":1302.63,"endTime":1305.36,"body":"is the changing attitude towards rudeness"},{"startTime":1305.36,"endTime":1307.94,"body":"and bullying by judges."},{"startTime":1307.94,"endTime":1310.58,"body":"Socrates, as I have mentioned"},{"startTime":1310.58,"endTime":1313.22,"body":"listed the ability to listen courteously"},{"startTime":1313.22,"endTime":1316.07,"body":"as one of the characteristics"},{"startTime":1313.22,"endTime":1316.07,"body":"of a good judge,"},{"startTime":1316.07,"endTime":1318.53,"body":"but this quality has not invariably"},{"startTime":1318.53,"endTime":1321.17,"body":"been manifest in our courts."},{"startTime":1321.17,"endTime":1322.64,"body":"This topic has been the subject"},{"startTime":1322.64,"endTime":1325.34,"body":"of a great deal of attention recently."},{"startTime":1325.34,"endTime":1328.67,"body":"In February, 2019, the Bar Council"},{"startTime":1328.67,"endTime":1332.84,"body":"published guidance to barristers"},{"startTime":1328.67,"endTime":1332.84,"body":"about judicial bullying."},{"startTime":1332.84,"endTime":1337.19,"body":"It defines bullying as offensive,"},{"startTime":1332.84,"endTime":1337.19,"body":"intimidating, malicious,"},{"startTime":1337.19,"endTime":1341.03,"body":"or insulting behavior"},{"startTime":1337.19,"endTime":1341.03,"body":"involving the misuse of power"},{"startTime":1341.03,"endTime":1344.51,"body":"as can make a person feel"},{"startTime":1341.03,"endTime":1344.51,"body":"vulnerable, upset, humiliated,"},{"startTime":1344.51,"endTime":1346.253,"body":"undermined, or threatened."},{"startTime":1347.12,"endTime":1348.77,"body":"The Bar Council recognizes"},{"startTime":1348.77,"endTime":1351.29,"body":"that when bullying by judges occurs,"},{"startTime":1351.29,"endTime":1353.6,"body":"it presents additional challenges"},{"startTime":1353.6,"endTime":1356.48,"body":"because those who are a"},{"startTime":1353.6,"endTime":1356.48,"body":"target may feel unable"},{"startTime":1356.48,"endTime":1360.2,"body":"or particularly reluctant"},{"startTime":1356.48,"endTime":1360.2,"body":"to do anything about it"},{"startTime":1360.2,"endTime":1363.383,"body":"even though the impact"},{"startTime":1360.2,"endTime":1363.383,"body":"may be particularly acute."},{"startTime":1364.31,"endTime":1367.04,"body":"I agree with the article"},{"startTime":1364.31,"endTime":1367.04,"body":"written by a senior barrister"},{"startTime":1367.04,"endTime":1370.01,"body":"in New South Wales and"},{"startTime":1367.04,"endTime":1370.01,"body":"included in the handbook"},{"startTime":1370.01,"endTime":1374.51,"body":"for judicial officers in"},{"startTime":1370.01,"endTime":1374.51,"body":"that Australian jurisdiction."},{"startTime":1374.51,"endTime":1376.613,"body":"It contains this observation."},{"startTime":1377.93,"endTime":1379.91,"body":"The idea that judicial bullying"},{"startTime":1379.91,"endTime":1381.86,"body":"is a necessary right of passage"},{"startTime":1381.86,"endTime":1385.25,"body":"for junior council is outdated, dangerous,"},{"startTime":1385.25,"endTime":1387.29,"body":"and wholly unacceptable."},{"startTime":1387.29,"endTime":1391.19,"body":"Older practitioners relating war stories"},{"startTime":1391.19,"endTime":1393.71,"body":"of how they were"},{"startTime":1391.19,"endTime":1393.71,"body":"mistreated by former judges"},{"startTime":1393.71,"endTime":1396.05,"body":"should not be a source of admiration,"},{"startTime":1396.05,"endTime":1399.35,"body":"but rather a sad"},{"startTime":1396.05,"endTime":1399.35,"body":"indictment that this issue"},{"startTime":1399.35,"endTime":1401.36,"body":"has not been addressed earlier."},{"startTime":1401.36,"endTime":1402.74,"body":"Just because one has suffered"},{"startTime":1402.74,"endTime":1404.72,"body":"the humiliation of judicial bullying"},{"startTime":1404.72,"endTime":1406.85,"body":"and lived to tell the tale"},{"startTime":1406.85,"endTime":1409.31,"body":"does not mean that it"},{"startTime":1406.85,"endTime":1409.31,"body":"should be an experience"},{"startTime":1409.31,"endTime":1411.92,"body":"visited upon newer members of the bar"},{"startTime":1411.92,"endTime":1415.37,"body":"rather it should trigger right"},{"startTime":1411.92,"endTime":1415.37,"body":"thinking members of the bench"},{"startTime":1415.37,"endTime":1418.19,"body":"and bar to ensure that such behavior"},{"startTime":1418.19,"endTime":1419.753,"body":"is treated with opprobrium."},{"startTime":1421.28,"endTime":1424.25,"body":"But why has unpleasant behavior in court"},{"startTime":1424.25,"endTime":1427.31,"body":"fallen so far out of fashion?"},{"startTime":1427.31,"endTime":1429.71,"body":"It is partly I think"},{"startTime":1427.31,"endTime":1429.71,"body":"because younger lawyers"},{"startTime":1429.71,"endTime":1432.95,"body":"have been educated in a"},{"startTime":1429.71,"endTime":1432.95,"body":"school and university system"},{"startTime":1432.95,"endTime":1435.23,"body":"that takes bullying seriously"},{"startTime":1435.23,"endTime":1436.97,"body":"and they are quite rightly"},{"startTime":1436.97,"endTime":1439.64,"body":"no longer prepared to put up with it."},{"startTime":1439.64,"endTime":1443.12,"body":"But to my mind this whole"},{"startTime":1439.64,"endTime":1443.12,"body":"issue is much more significant"},{"startTime":1443.12,"endTime":1445.34,"body":"than just being a way"},{"startTime":1443.12,"endTime":1445.34,"body":"of protecting barristers"},{"startTime":1445.34,"endTime":1447.38,"body":"from having a bad day at the office."},{"startTime":1447.38,"endTime":1449.6,"body":"Important though that is."},{"startTime":1449.6,"endTime":1452.99,"body":"If lay clients sitting in"},{"startTime":1449.6,"endTime":1452.99,"body":"court see the judge being rude"},{"startTime":1452.99,"endTime":1454.58,"body":"and impatient with their counsel"},{"startTime":1454.58,"endTime":1457.91,"body":"or with the witnesses on their"},{"startTime":1454.58,"endTime":1457.91,"body":"side, they will feel strongly"},{"startTime":1457.91,"endTime":1460.58,"body":"that they have not had a fair hearing,"},{"startTime":1460.58,"endTime":1463.61,"body":"their dissatisfaction will"},{"startTime":1460.58,"endTime":1463.61,"body":"not only be with the judge,"},{"startTime":1463.61,"endTime":1466.64,"body":"but also however unfairly"},{"startTime":1463.61,"endTime":1466.64,"body":"with their counsel"},{"startTime":1466.64,"endTime":1470.36,"body":"and with the overall"},{"startTime":1466.64,"endTime":1470.36,"body":"process of adjudication."},{"startTime":1470.36,"endTime":1472.46,"body":"And this becomes a vicious circle"},{"startTime":1472.46,"endTime":1475.19,"body":"because an advocate will"},{"startTime":1472.46,"endTime":1475.19,"body":"rarely give of his or her best"},{"startTime":1475.19,"endTime":1478.13,"body":"for the client or the"},{"startTime":1475.19,"endTime":1478.13,"body":"cause or for the court"},{"startTime":1478.13,"endTime":1480.053,"body":"when subjected to undue pressure."},{"startTime":1481.55,"endTime":1483.11,"body":"The importance of what is said"},{"startTime":1483.11,"endTime":1485.72,"body":"as well as what is done"},{"startTime":1483.11,"endTime":1485.72,"body":"by the judge in court"},{"startTime":1485.72,"endTime":1488.78,"body":"is also reflected by an"},{"startTime":1485.72,"endTime":1488.78,"body":"interesting statistic"},{"startTime":1488.78,"endTime":1491.99,"body":"about the categories of"},{"startTime":1488.78,"endTime":1491.99,"body":"complaint about judicial conduct"},{"startTime":1491.99,"endTime":1495.263,"body":"made to the judicial conduct"},{"startTime":1491.99,"endTime":1495.263,"body":"investigations office."},{"startTime":1498.68,"endTime":1503.36,"body":"The JCIO's annual report for 2020 to 2021"},{"startTime":1503.36,"endTime":1508.36,"body":"states that 232 complaints"},{"startTime":1503.36,"endTime":1508.36,"body":"about 19% of the total"},{"startTime":1509.0,"endTime":1513.02,"body":"were about inappropriate"},{"startTime":1509.0,"endTime":1513.02,"body":"behavior by the judge."},{"startTime":1513.02,"endTime":1515.69,"body":"The report states that"},{"startTime":1513.02,"endTime":1515.69,"body":"most of these complaints"},{"startTime":1515.69,"endTime":1517.43,"body":"are found to be unsubstantiated"},{"startTime":1517.43,"endTime":1520.13,"body":"or even if true insufficiently serious"},{"startTime":1520.13,"endTime":1523.37,"body":"to require disciplinary"},{"startTime":1520.13,"endTime":1523.37,"body":"action to be taken."},{"startTime":1523.37,"endTime":1527.39,"body":"But the fact that 232"},{"startTime":1523.37,"endTime":1527.39,"body":"people took the trouble"},{"startTime":1527.39,"endTime":1531.5,"body":"to lodge a complaint with the"},{"startTime":1527.39,"endTime":1531.5,"body":"JCIO about behavior in court"},{"startTime":1531.5,"endTime":1535.34,"body":"is a salutary reminder to"},{"startTime":1531.5,"endTime":1535.34,"body":"any serving or would be judge"},{"startTime":1535.34,"endTime":1538.04,"body":"that people are listening and watching"},{"startTime":1538.04,"endTime":1541.973,"body":"and holding us to a high"},{"startTime":1538.04,"endTime":1541.973,"body":"standard as regards our behavior."},{"startTime":1543.71,"endTime":1545.45,"body":"At the other end of the spectrum,"},{"startTime":1545.45,"endTime":1549.08,"body":"does a judge need to"},{"startTime":1545.45,"endTime":1549.08,"body":"have a sense of humor?"},{"startTime":1549.08,"endTime":1552.23,"body":"That New South Wales"},{"startTime":1549.08,"endTime":1552.23,"body":"Judicial Conduct Handbook"},{"startTime":1552.23,"endTime":1554.18,"body":"contains a delightful article"},{"startTime":1554.18,"endTime":1557.6,"body":"by the honorable Judge Chiru"},{"startTime":1554.18,"endTime":1557.6,"body":"of the Court of Appeal,"},{"startTime":1557.6,"endTime":1559.97,"body":"Supreme Court of Victoria."},{"startTime":1559.97,"endTime":1562.55,"body":"He discusses some of the"},{"startTime":1559.97,"endTime":1562.55,"body":"key personal attributes"},{"startTime":1562.55,"endTime":1565.94,"body":"of a good judge in which he"},{"startTime":1562.55,"endTime":1565.94,"body":"includes not only independence,"},{"startTime":1565.94,"endTime":1570.47,"body":"impartiality, and communication"},{"startTime":1565.94,"endTime":1570.47,"body":"skills, but also patience,"},{"startTime":1570.47,"endTime":1573.74,"body":"cultural awareness and"},{"startTime":1570.47,"endTime":1573.74,"body":"tolerance, people skills,"},{"startTime":1573.74,"endTime":1577.46,"body":"a sense of perspective"},{"startTime":1573.74,"endTime":1577.46,"body":"and a sense of humor."},{"startTime":1577.46,"endTime":1578.637,"body":"He says,"},{"startTime":1578.637,"endTime":1581.457,"body":"\"The administration of"},{"startTime":1578.637,"endTime":1581.457,"body":"justice is a serious business"},{"startTime":1581.457,"endTime":1584.667,"body":"\"with important obligations"},{"startTime":1581.457,"endTime":1584.667,"body":"and responsibilities."},{"startTime":1584.667,"endTime":1588.507,"body":"\"Court cases involve tremendous"},{"startTime":1584.667,"endTime":1588.507,"body":"stress for court users"},{"startTime":1588.507,"endTime":1590.967,"body":"\"and therefore the court"},{"startTime":1588.507,"endTime":1590.967,"body":"room is not the place"},{"startTime":1590.967,"endTime":1594.29,"body":"\"for judges to try their"},{"startTime":1590.967,"endTime":1594.29,"body":"hand at being comedians.\""},{"startTime":1594.29,"endTime":1596.12,"body":"But that does not mean however"},{"startTime":1596.12,"endTime":1600.26,"body":"that judges must be perennially"},{"startTime":1596.12,"endTime":1600.26,"body":"uptight and unhappy,"},{"startTime":1600.26,"endTime":1603.56,"body":"a balanced lifestyle,"},{"startTime":1600.26,"endTime":1603.56,"body":"interests outside the law,"},{"startTime":1603.56,"endTime":1606.8,"body":"a down to earth personality"},{"startTime":1603.56,"endTime":1606.8,"body":"and a good sense of humor"},{"startTime":1606.8,"endTime":1610.04,"body":"can increase a judge's"},{"startTime":1606.8,"endTime":1610.04,"body":"enjoyment of the judicial role"},{"startTime":1610.04,"endTime":1611.81,"body":"and this can assist in ensuring"},{"startTime":1611.81,"endTime":1614.36,"body":"that the mood in the courtroom is positive"},{"startTime":1614.36,"endTime":1616.43,"body":"which in turn can ensure that the hearing"},{"startTime":1616.43,"endTime":1620.063,"body":"is conducted in an efficient"},{"startTime":1616.43,"endTime":1620.063,"body":"and harmonious manner."},{"startTime":1621.71,"endTime":1623.9,"body":"One can contrast this approach"},{"startTime":1623.9,"endTime":1625.61,"body":"with a comment of Lord Judge"},{"startTime":1625.61,"endTime":1629.18,"body":"in that 2013 lecture"},{"startTime":1625.61,"endTime":1629.18,"body":"I referred to earlier."},{"startTime":1629.18,"endTime":1630.92,"body":"He also lists the qualities"},{"startTime":1630.92,"endTime":1633.56,"body":"that he considers the"},{"startTime":1630.92,"endTime":1633.56,"body":"modern judge must have."},{"startTime":1633.56,"endTime":1636.38,"body":"These include the"},{"startTime":1633.56,"endTime":1636.38,"body":"ability to make decisions"},{"startTime":1636.38,"endTime":1638.36,"body":"that are profoundly unpleasant"},{"startTime":1638.36,"endTime":1641.24,"body":"and have very serious consequences."},{"startTime":1641.24,"endTime":1645.83,"body":"This is not a fun job he"},{"startTime":1641.24,"endTime":1645.83,"body":"said and you have to do it."},{"startTime":1645.83,"endTime":1647.987,"body":"I would say that that is true, of course,"},{"startTime":1647.987,"endTime":1650.54,"body":"but the job is sometimes a fun job."},{"startTime":1650.54,"endTime":1651.71,"body":"And if you're going to get through"},{"startTime":1651.71,"endTime":1653.57,"body":"the difficult intense times,"},{"startTime":1653.57,"endTime":1656.51,"body":"it can be helpful to be"},{"startTime":1653.57,"endTime":1656.51,"body":"able to lighten the mood"},{"startTime":1656.51,"endTime":1657.953,"body":"when that is appropriate."},{"startTime":1658.79,"endTime":1661.49,"body":"That said, judges have"},{"startTime":1658.79,"endTime":1661.49,"body":"sometimes got into trouble"},{"startTime":1661.49,"endTime":1664.64,"body":"for flippancy or inappropriate remarks"},{"startTime":1664.64,"endTime":1667.22,"body":"and every judge must also bear in mind"},{"startTime":1667.22,"endTime":1671.45,"body":"that you do not get a genuine"},{"startTime":1667.22,"endTime":1671.45,"body":"reaction for those in court."},{"startTime":1671.45,"endTime":1674.51,"body":"So the fact that everyone"},{"startTime":1671.45,"endTime":1674.51,"body":"in court roars with laughter"},{"startTime":1674.51,"endTime":1677.66,"body":"at some little quip that you"},{"startTime":1674.51,"endTime":1677.66,"body":"make at the end of the day"},{"startTime":1677.66,"endTime":1680.21,"body":"should not encourage you"},{"startTime":1677.66,"endTime":1680.21,"body":"to give up the day job"},{"startTime":1680.21,"endTime":1683.87,"body":"and start working the circuit"},{"startTime":1680.21,"endTime":1683.87,"body":"as a standup comedian."},{"startTime":1683.87,"endTime":1686.57,"body":"Your audience might well"},{"startTime":1683.87,"endTime":1686.57,"body":"be rolling their eyes"},{"startTime":1686.57,"endTime":1688.493,"body":"as soon as you have left court."},{"startTime":1690.11,"endTime":1692.33,"body":"No talk or at least no talk by me"},{"startTime":1692.33,"endTime":1694.4,"body":"about what makes a good judge is complete"},{"startTime":1694.4,"endTime":1696.74,"body":"without some mention of diversity."},{"startTime":1696.74,"endTime":1699.2,"body":"And this is also dealt with in section 63"},{"startTime":1699.2,"endTime":1701.9,"body":"of the Constitutional Reform Act."},{"startTime":1701.9,"endTime":1703.4,"body":"Following on from the provision"},{"startTime":1703.4,"endTime":1706.31,"body":"that appointment must be solely on merit,"},{"startTime":1706.31,"endTime":1708.95,"body":"subsection four qualifies this"},{"startTime":1708.95,"endTime":1712.37,"body":"by providing but the use"},{"startTime":1708.95,"endTime":1712.37,"body":"of the word solely there"},{"startTime":1712.37,"endTime":1714.29,"body":"does not prevent the selecting body"},{"startTime":1714.29,"endTime":1717.11,"body":"where two persons are of equal merit"},{"startTime":1717.11,"endTime":1719.81,"body":"from preferring one of them over the other"},{"startTime":1719.81,"endTime":1721.82,"body":"for the purpose of increasing diversity"},{"startTime":1721.82,"endTime":1724.7,"body":"within the group of"},{"startTime":1721.82,"endTime":1724.7,"body":"persons who hold office"},{"startTime":1724.7,"endTime":1727.343,"body":"for which there is a"},{"startTime":1724.7,"endTime":1727.343,"body":"selection under that act."},{"startTime":1728.72,"endTime":1731.39,"body":"Critics of this provision have commented"},{"startTime":1731.39,"endTime":1733.64,"body":"that this appears to embrace the view"},{"startTime":1733.64,"endTime":1737.36,"body":"that diversity is something"},{"startTime":1733.64,"endTime":1737.36,"body":"different from merit."},{"startTime":1737.36,"endTime":1739.43,"body":"And as if there has to be a choice made"},{"startTime":1739.43,"endTime":1742.07,"body":"between the two ideas or a balance of them"},{"startTime":1742.07,"endTime":1745.04,"body":"treating them as competing goals."},{"startTime":1745.04,"endTime":1746.3,"body":"Another way to look at it"},{"startTime":1746.3,"endTime":1748.76,"body":"is to recognize that for many centuries"},{"startTime":1748.76,"endTime":1752.51,"body":"the selection of judges"},{"startTime":1748.76,"endTime":1752.51,"body":"has not truly been on merit"},{"startTime":1752.51,"endTime":1755.93,"body":"or rather it has been limited"},{"startTime":1752.51,"endTime":1755.93,"body":"to comparing the merits"},{"startTime":1755.93,"endTime":1758.84,"body":"of only a very narrow group of people."},{"startTime":1758.84,"endTime":1760.97,"body":"This does not seem to have troubled those"},{"startTime":1760.97,"endTime":1763.37,"body":"who have been selected under that system"},{"startTime":1763.37,"endTime":1765.53,"body":"and who are sometimes"},{"startTime":1763.37,"endTime":1765.53,"body":"heard to complain about"},{"startTime":1765.53,"endTime":1768.263,"body":"the unfairness of this"},{"startTime":1765.53,"endTime":1768.263,"body":"tie breaker provision."},{"startTime":1769.1,"endTime":1771.86,"body":"By contrast, it might be"},{"startTime":1769.1,"endTime":1771.86,"body":"said that by time a woman"},{"startTime":1771.86,"endTime":1774.62,"body":"or a person from an"},{"startTime":1771.86,"endTime":1774.62,"body":"ethnic minority community"},{"startTime":1774.62,"endTime":1776.78,"body":"gets to the position where subsection four"},{"startTime":1776.78,"endTime":1778.31,"body":"might be triggered,"},{"startTime":1778.31,"endTime":1781.46,"body":"they must already have overcome"},{"startTime":1778.31,"endTime":1781.46,"body":"such challenges of conscious"},{"startTime":1781.46,"endTime":1784.52,"body":"and unconscious bias that"},{"startTime":1781.46,"endTime":1784.52,"body":"they may well in fact,"},{"startTime":1784.52,"endTime":1786.533,"body":"be of greater merit than their rival."},{"startTime":1788.36,"endTime":1790.49,"body":"Further treating the"},{"startTime":1788.36,"endTime":1790.49,"body":"ability of a candidate"},{"startTime":1790.49,"endTime":1792.2,"body":"to bring a fresh perspective"},{"startTime":1792.2,"endTime":1794.27,"body":"from a different life experience"},{"startTime":1794.27,"endTime":1798.14,"body":"as being something not"},{"startTime":1794.27,"endTime":1798.14,"body":"embraced by the term, merit"},{"startTime":1798.14,"endTime":1800.213,"body":"seems to me unfortunate."},{"startTime":1801.05,"endTime":1803.78,"body":"This was put very well"},{"startTime":1801.05,"endTime":1803.78,"body":"by Sir Sydney KenRidge"},{"startTime":1803.78,"endTime":1806.3,"body":"when he gave the second"},{"startTime":1803.78,"endTime":1806.3,"body":"Sir David Williams lecture"},{"startTime":1806.3,"endTime":1809.81,"body":"at Cambridge University in May, 2002."},{"startTime":1809.81,"endTime":1811.88,"body":"The topic of his lecture was,"},{"startTime":1811.88,"endTime":1815.03,"body":"the highest court selecting the judges."},{"startTime":1815.03,"endTime":1816.98,"body":"It was prompted by the coming into force"},{"startTime":1816.98,"endTime":1820.16,"body":"of the Human Rights Act 1998."},{"startTime":1820.16,"endTime":1823.543,"body":"This act, Sir Sydney"},{"startTime":1820.16,"endTime":1823.543,"body":"said permits and requires"},{"startTime":1823.543,"endTime":1826.01,"body":"(indistinct) two unknown"},{"startTime":1823.543,"endTime":1826.01,"body":"judicial interventions"},{"startTime":1826.01,"endTime":1828.86,"body":"not only into the sphere"},{"startTime":1826.01,"endTime":1828.86,"body":"of executive action,"},{"startTime":1828.86,"endTime":1831.62,"body":"but also into the sphere of legislation."},{"startTime":1831.62,"endTime":1833.27,"body":"Did this he asked,"},{"startTime":1833.27,"endTime":1835.7,"body":"mean that we should look"},{"startTime":1833.27,"endTime":1835.7,"body":"for different qualities"},{"startTime":1835.7,"endTime":1837.35,"body":"in our top judges?"},{"startTime":1837.35,"endTime":1839.75,"body":"Sensitivity to social issues"},{"startTime":1839.75,"endTime":1843.11,"body":"and an appreciation of the"},{"startTime":1839.75,"endTime":1843.11,"body":"importance of individual rights"},{"startTime":1843.11,"endTime":1846.59,"body":"would be desirable"},{"startTime":1843.11,"endTime":1846.59,"body":"qualities if only he says,"},{"startTime":1846.59,"endTime":1848.633,"body":"there were some way of discerning them."},{"startTime":1849.68,"endTime":1853.31,"body":"Sir Sydney compared the at"},{"startTime":1849.68,"endTime":1853.31,"body":"that time entirely white male,"},{"startTime":1853.31,"endTime":1855.83,"body":"middle class members of the House of Lords"},{"startTime":1855.83,"endTime":1858.56,"body":"with the South African"},{"startTime":1855.83,"endTime":1858.56,"body":"Constitutional Court"},{"startTime":1858.56,"endTime":1861.92,"body":"on which Sir Sydney sat"},{"startTime":1858.56,"endTime":1861.92,"body":"as an acting justice."},{"startTime":1861.92,"endTime":1865.04,"body":"Of the 11 judges on that"},{"startTime":1861.92,"endTime":1865.04,"body":"constitutional court"},{"startTime":1865.04,"endTime":1868.19,"body":"there were six white men, three Black men,"},{"startTime":1868.19,"endTime":1871.13,"body":"one Black woman, and one white woman."},{"startTime":1871.13,"endTime":1873.17,"body":"Five had been high court judges."},{"startTime":1873.17,"endTime":1875.45,"body":"Some had come directly from the bar"},{"startTime":1875.45,"endTime":1878.18,"body":"and at least four had at"},{"startTime":1875.45,"endTime":1878.18,"body":"some point been academics"},{"startTime":1878.18,"endTime":1880.61,"body":"as well as having worked"},{"startTime":1878.18,"endTime":1880.61,"body":"in private practice,"},{"startTime":1880.61,"endTime":1882.92,"body":"either as advocates or attorneys."},{"startTime":1882.92,"endTime":1885.74,"body":"One had been a political exile."},{"startTime":1885.74,"endTime":1888.357,"body":"Sir Sydney writes, \"They"},{"startTime":1885.74,"endTime":1888.357,"body":"were all good lawyers,"},{"startTime":1888.357,"endTime":1891.597,"body":"\"but what I found overwhelming"},{"startTime":1888.357,"endTime":1891.597,"body":"was a depth and variety"},{"startTime":1891.597,"endTime":1894.777,"body":"\"of their experience of law and life."},{"startTime":1894.777,"endTime":1898.257,"body":"\"This diversity he said"},{"startTime":1894.777,"endTime":1898.257,"body":"illuminated their discussions"},{"startTime":1898.257,"endTime":1901.467,"body":"\"when he was sitting especially"},{"startTime":1898.257,"endTime":1901.467,"body":"when competing interests,"},{"startTime":1901.467,"endTime":1905.247,"body":"\"individual, governmental,"},{"startTime":1901.467,"endTime":1905.247,"body":"and social had to be weighed."},{"startTime":1905.247,"endTime":1907.017,"body":"\"I have no doubt, he said"},{"startTime":1907.017,"endTime":1910.377,"body":"\"that this diversity"},{"startTime":1907.017,"endTime":1910.377,"body":"gave the court as a whole"},{"startTime":1910.377,"endTime":1914.147,"body":"\"a maturity of judgment he"},{"startTime":1910.377,"endTime":1914.147,"body":"would not otherwise have had.\""},{"startTime":1915.65,"endTime":1918.893,"body":"This brings me to another"},{"startTime":1915.65,"endTime":1918.893,"body":"quality required of judges."},{"startTime":1921.44,"endTime":1923.96,"body":"The framework of judicial"},{"startTime":1921.44,"endTime":1923.96,"body":"abilities and qualities"},{"startTime":1923.96,"endTime":1928.34,"body":"published by the Judicial"},{"startTime":1923.96,"endTime":1928.34,"body":"Studies Board lists compassion"},{"startTime":1928.34,"endTime":1929.78,"body":"as one of the qualities"},{"startTime":1929.78,"endTime":1933.29,"body":"included on the umbrella"},{"startTime":1929.78,"endTime":1933.29,"body":"of community and authority"},{"startTime":1933.29,"endTime":1937.013,"body":"along with firmness without"},{"startTime":1933.29,"endTime":1937.013,"body":"arrogance and sensitivity."},{"startTime":1938.27,"endTime":1941.27,"body":"This quality is discussed"},{"startTime":1938.27,"endTime":1941.27,"body":"by Robert J. Sharp,"},{"startTime":1941.27,"endTime":1944.427,"body":"a judge of the Court of"},{"startTime":1941.27,"endTime":1944.427,"body":"Appeal of Ontario in his book,"},{"startTime":1944.427,"endTime":1947.54,"body":"\"Good Judgment Making Judicial Decisions.\""},{"startTime":1947.54,"endTime":1950.21,"body":"He notes that our most respected judges"},{"startTime":1950.21,"endTime":1952.823,"body":"are often described as compassionate."},{"startTime":1953.84,"endTime":1958.25,"body":"But what exactly does it mean"},{"startTime":1953.84,"endTime":1958.25,"body":"to judge with compassion?"},{"startTime":1958.25,"endTime":1961.37,"body":"The law is the law and must"},{"startTime":1958.25,"endTime":1961.37,"body":"be applied with an even"},{"startTime":1961.37,"endTime":1964.31,"body":"and consistent hand and cannot be modified"},{"startTime":1964.31,"endTime":1966.47,"body":"on grounds of sympathy or emotion."},{"startTime":1966.47,"endTime":1968.87,"body":"Indeed, I would add in parenthesis,"},{"startTime":1968.87,"endTime":1971.6,"body":"another of the qualities in"},{"startTime":1968.87,"endTime":1971.6,"body":"the Judicial Studies Board's"},{"startTime":1971.6,"endTime":1974.33,"body":"framework is, remains detached"},{"startTime":1974.33,"endTime":1977.093,"body":"and manages one's reactions and emotions."},{"startTime":1978.59,"endTime":1981.71,"body":"John Sharp's answer is that"},{"startTime":1978.59,"endTime":1981.71,"body":"judging is not an abstract"},{"startTime":1981.71,"endTime":1983.6,"body":"or mechanical process."},{"startTime":1983.6,"endTime":1986.84,"body":"It is an intensely human process."},{"startTime":1986.84,"endTime":1990.47,"body":"The judge is engaged in"},{"startTime":1986.84,"endTime":1990.47,"body":"unraveling and resolving disputes"},{"startTime":1990.47,"endTime":1992.63,"body":"that often have had a profound effect"},{"startTime":1992.63,"endTime":1994.91,"body":"on the lives of the litigant."},{"startTime":1994.91,"endTime":1998.21,"body":"A judge who is able to"},{"startTime":1994.91,"endTime":1998.21,"body":"see all sides of a problem"},{"startTime":1998.21,"endTime":2000.82,"body":"has a better chance of making a decision"},{"startTime":2000.82,"endTime":2005.71,"body":"that is both fair and just"},{"startTime":2000.82,"endTime":2005.71,"body":"and seen to be fair and just."},{"startTime":2005.71,"endTime":2009.347,"body":"He quotes Canadian Chief"},{"startTime":2005.71,"endTime":2009.347,"body":"Justice, Brian Dixon as saying"},{"startTime":2009.347,"endTime":2011.237,"body":"\"That a judge must be guided"},{"startTime":2011.237,"endTime":2014.477,"body":"\"by an ever present awareness and concern"},{"startTime":2014.477,"endTime":2018.257,"body":"\"for the plight of others"},{"startTime":2014.477,"endTime":2018.257,"body":"and the human condition."},{"startTime":2018.257,"endTime":2021.167,"body":"\"Compassion is not some extra legal factor"},{"startTime":2021.167,"endTime":2023.807,"body":"\"magnanimously acknowledged"},{"startTime":2021.167,"endTime":2023.807,"body":"by a benevolent"},{"startTime":2023.807,"endTime":2028.807,"body":"\"legal decision maker rather"},{"startTime":2023.807,"endTime":2028.807,"body":"compassion is part and parcel"},{"startTime":2029.057,"endTime":2032.977,"body":"\"of the nature and content"},{"startTime":2029.057,"endTime":2032.977,"body":"of what we call law.\""},{"startTime":2033.97,"endTime":2035.08,"body":"That is certainly something"},{"startTime":2035.08,"endTime":2037.45,"body":"that accords with my own experience"},{"startTime":2037.45,"endTime":2039.61,"body":"and is true whatever area of the law"},{"startTime":2039.61,"endTime":2042.25,"body":"you specialize in as a judge."},{"startTime":2042.25,"endTime":2044.74,"body":"One thing that struck me"},{"startTime":2042.25,"endTime":2044.74,"body":"during my time as a judge"},{"startTime":2044.74,"endTime":2047.35,"body":"in the Chancery Division is how often"},{"startTime":2047.35,"endTime":2050.71,"body":"what appears on the face of"},{"startTime":2047.35,"endTime":2050.71,"body":"it to be a rather dry case"},{"startTime":2050.71,"endTime":2053.62,"body":"exploring some arcane"},{"startTime":2050.71,"endTime":2053.62,"body":"provision of the company's act"},{"startTime":2053.62,"endTime":2056.68,"body":"or the insolvency act in fact arises"},{"startTime":2056.68,"endTime":2060.13,"body":"from a very human dispute"},{"startTime":2056.68,"endTime":2060.13,"body":"between the litigants."},{"startTime":2060.13,"endTime":2063.82,"body":"The parties use the courts"},{"startTime":2060.13,"endTime":2063.82,"body":"to resolve their own feelings"},{"startTime":2063.82,"endTime":2067.57,"body":"of upset or betrayal about"},{"startTime":2063.82,"endTime":2067.57,"body":"some business partnership"},{"startTime":2067.57,"endTime":2070.81,"body":"that went wrong or some"},{"startTime":2067.57,"endTime":2070.81,"body":"ambitious commercial venture"},{"startTime":2070.81,"endTime":2074.953,"body":"that unhappily founded throwing"},{"startTime":2070.81,"endTime":2074.953,"body":"their lives into turmoil."},{"startTime":2075.91,"endTime":2077.65,"body":"So as a trial judge,"},{"startTime":2077.65,"endTime":2079.72,"body":"being able to feel compassion"},{"startTime":2079.72,"endTime":2082.09,"body":"or being able to"},{"startTime":2079.72,"endTime":2082.09,"body":"empathize with the parties"},{"startTime":2082.09,"endTime":2084.7,"body":"and the predicament"},{"startTime":2082.09,"endTime":2084.7,"body":"they find themselves in"},{"startTime":2084.7,"endTime":2087.76,"body":"is often an essential part of being able"},{"startTime":2087.76,"endTime":2089.32,"body":"to decide which of the parties"},{"startTime":2089.32,"endTime":2091.57,"body":"is giving the more accurate"},{"startTime":2089.32,"endTime":2091.57,"body":"account of what happened"},{"startTime":2091.57,"endTime":2094.03,"body":"when you come to make"},{"startTime":2091.57,"endTime":2094.03,"body":"the findings of fact,"},{"startTime":2094.03,"endTime":2096.01,"body":"as well as the other elements"},{"startTime":2096.01,"endTime":2098.05,"body":"that go into forming the bedrock"},{"startTime":2098.05,"endTime":2099.823,"body":"of your application of the law."},{"startTime":2101.68,"endTime":2103.57,"body":"Following on from that thought,"},{"startTime":2103.57,"endTime":2105.79,"body":"let me close by sharing some advice"},{"startTime":2105.79,"endTime":2108.19,"body":"I give to judges just starting out"},{"startTime":2108.19,"endTime":2111.31,"body":"and which indeed I"},{"startTime":2108.19,"endTime":2111.31,"body":"regularly give to myself"},{"startTime":2111.31,"endTime":2114.07,"body":"and which I find very helpful in my desire"},{"startTime":2114.07,"endTime":2116.05,"body":"to be a good judge."},{"startTime":2116.05,"endTime":2120.7,"body":"Bear this in mind, for every"},{"startTime":2116.05,"endTime":2120.7,"body":"case that you preside over"},{"startTime":2120.7,"endTime":2123.52,"body":"there comes a point a day"},{"startTime":2120.7,"endTime":2123.52,"body":"or so before the hearing"},{"startTime":2123.52,"endTime":2125.26,"body":"when the lawyers involved in the case"},{"startTime":2125.26,"endTime":2127.24,"body":"find out from the listing office"},{"startTime":2127.24,"endTime":2131.26,"body":"that you are going to be the"},{"startTime":2127.24,"endTime":2131.26,"body":"judge hearing their case."},{"startTime":2131.26,"endTime":2133.307,"body":"They ring up the client and say,"},{"startTime":2133.307,"endTime":2135.677,"body":"\"We've just heard that"},{"startTime":2133.307,"endTime":2135.677,"body":"we have Mrs. Justice Rose"},{"startTime":2135.677,"endTime":2137.65,"body":"\"or Mr. Justice X.\""},{"startTime":2137.65,"endTime":2142.277,"body":"Inevitably the client"},{"startTime":2137.65,"endTime":2142.277,"body":"asks, \"Is that good or bad?"},{"startTime":2142.277,"endTime":2145.18,"body":"\"What is he or she like?\""},{"startTime":2145.18,"endTime":2147.43,"body":"So if you want to be a good judge"},{"startTime":2147.43,"endTime":2150.01,"body":"try to think of how you"},{"startTime":2147.43,"endTime":2150.01,"body":"would like the lawyer"},{"startTime":2150.01,"endTime":2153.25,"body":"to respond to that"},{"startTime":2150.01,"endTime":2153.25,"body":"question from the client"},{"startTime":2153.25,"endTime":2156.67,"body":"and then in all the different"},{"startTime":2153.25,"endTime":2156.67,"body":"aspects of your conduct"},{"startTime":2156.67,"endTime":2159.61,"body":"in and out of court, try to behave"},{"startTime":2159.61,"endTime":2161.74,"body":"so as to bring that about."},{"startTime":2161.74,"endTime":2162.854,"body":"Thank you."},{"startTime":2162.854,"endTime":2165.854,"body":"(audience clapping)"},{"startTime":2173.98,"endTime":2178.0,"body":"- Lady Rose, thank you very"},{"startTime":2173.98,"endTime":2178.0,"body":"much for a fascinating lecture."},{"startTime":2178.0,"endTime":2180.55,"body":"I'm going to open it up to questions now"},{"startTime":2180.55,"endTime":2182.5,"body":"if you don't mind."},{"startTime":2182.5,"endTime":2183.97,"body":"Are there any questions in the hall?"},{"startTime":2183.97,"endTime":2185.89,"body":"We've got a few hands up."},{"startTime":2185.89,"endTime":2187.63,"body":"If you could just hang on for one second,"},{"startTime":2187.63,"endTime":2191.53,"body":"my colleague is just going to"},{"startTime":2187.63,"endTime":2191.53,"body":"bring in the microphone, okay."},{"startTime":2191.53,"endTime":2194.05,"body":"- Hello, thank you so much for the talk."},{"startTime":2194.05,"endTime":2195.19,"body":"Fascinating."},{"startTime":2195.19,"endTime":2199.15,"body":"And I wonder does a good"},{"startTime":2195.19,"endTime":2199.15,"body":"judge ever have doubts"},{"startTime":2199.15,"endTime":2201.49,"body":"about their decision"},{"startTime":2201.49,"endTime":2204.82,"body":"and how do you deal with that as a judge"},{"startTime":2204.82,"endTime":2208.36,"body":"thinking about a case"},{"startTime":2204.82,"endTime":2208.36,"body":"decision after you've made it,"},{"startTime":2208.36,"endTime":2209.53,"body":"do you put it aside?"},{"startTime":2209.53,"endTime":2210.433,"body":"What do you do?"},{"startTime":2214.57,"endTime":2218.08,"body":"- I don't particularly recall a time..."},{"startTime":2218.08,"endTime":2222.13,"body":"I certainly recall a time"},{"startTime":2218.08,"endTime":2222.13,"body":"when I have changed my mind"},{"startTime":2222.13,"endTime":2223.51,"body":"during the course of a hearing,"},{"startTime":2223.51,"endTime":2226.9,"body":"when I've gone into a hearing"},{"startTime":2223.51,"endTime":2226.9,"body":"having pre-read the papers"},{"startTime":2226.9,"endTime":2229.72,"body":"and thought I was likely"},{"startTime":2226.9,"endTime":2229.72,"body":"to come to one view"},{"startTime":2229.72,"endTime":2232.36,"body":"and then have entirely turned around"},{"startTime":2232.36,"endTime":2235.12,"body":"during the course of the hearing,"},{"startTime":2235.12,"endTime":2238.72,"body":"but then I'm usually"},{"startTime":2235.12,"endTime":2238.72,"body":"pretty firmly of the view"},{"startTime":2238.72,"endTime":2239.553,"body":"that I come to."},{"startTime":2239.553,"endTime":2240.91,"body":"Sometimes you do that"},{"startTime":2240.91,"endTime":2242.65,"body":"and then when you hear the other advocate"},{"startTime":2242.65,"endTime":2244.993,"body":"you realize you were right the first time."},{"startTime":2246.13,"endTime":2250.6,"body":"I don't think that there's"},{"startTime":2246.13,"endTime":2250.6,"body":"much scope for anxiety"},{"startTime":2250.6,"endTime":2254.05,"body":"after the decision because"},{"startTime":2250.6,"endTime":2254.05,"body":"you move on so quickly"},{"startTime":2254.05,"endTime":2256.3,"body":"to the next case."},{"startTime":2256.3,"endTime":2260.2,"body":"Of course, what sometimes"},{"startTime":2256.3,"endTime":2260.2,"body":"happens is your decision goes up"},{"startTime":2260.2,"endTime":2263.14,"body":"to the higher court and"},{"startTime":2260.2,"endTime":2263.14,"body":"then you are either upheld."},{"startTime":2263.14,"endTime":2264.82,"body":"In which case you say few,"},{"startTime":2264.82,"endTime":2267.73,"body":"I did take the right"},{"startTime":2264.82,"endTime":2267.73,"body":"decision or you're overturned"},{"startTime":2267.73,"endTime":2269.23,"body":"at which point you can either say,"},{"startTime":2269.23,"endTime":2272.17,"body":"well, I was right all along"},{"startTime":2272.17,"endTime":2273.64,"body":"and they've completely messed up."},{"startTime":2273.64,"endTime":2274.6,"body":"Or you can say,"},{"startTime":2274.6,"endTime":2277.45,"body":"well, I can see that the case was argued"},{"startTime":2277.45,"endTime":2279.043,"body":"in a slightly different way."},{"startTime":2280.09,"endTime":2281.38,"body":"There are..."},{"startTime":2281.38,"endTime":2285.04,"body":"The thing about the job is"},{"startTime":2281.38,"endTime":2285.04,"body":"that you do have to arrive"},{"startTime":2285.04,"endTime":2286.57,"body":"at a decision at the end of the day"},{"startTime":2286.57,"endTime":2289.093,"body":"and someone has to win"},{"startTime":2286.57,"endTime":2289.093,"body":"and someone has to lose."},{"startTime":2290.53,"endTime":2295.53,"body":"But I think for me I feel"},{"startTime":2290.53,"endTime":2295.53,"body":"as long as I have overseen"},{"startTime":2295.84,"endTime":2300.46,"body":"a fair process and I have"},{"startTime":2295.84,"endTime":2300.46,"body":"explained my reasons clearly"},{"startTime":2300.46,"endTime":2303.82,"body":"in the judgment that satisfies me"},{"startTime":2303.82,"endTime":2306.4,"body":"and I would hope would"},{"startTime":2303.82,"endTime":2306.4,"body":"satisfy both the parties,"},{"startTime":2306.4,"endTime":2309.0,"body":"both the winner and the"},{"startTime":2306.4,"endTime":2309.0,"body":"loser at the end of the day."},{"startTime":2309.88,"endTime":2311.89,"body":"- May I pose a question"},{"startTime":2309.88,"endTime":2311.89,"body":"from the online audience."},{"startTime":2311.89,"endTime":2313.99,"body":"They've been coming in thick and fast now."},{"startTime":2315.4,"endTime":2316.63,"body":"Sorry, I've lost it."},{"startTime":2316.63,"endTime":2318.55,"body":"My son is currently sitting his A levels"},{"startTime":2318.55,"endTime":2320.17,"body":"and wants to pursue a career in law"},{"startTime":2320.17,"endTime":2321.49,"body":"and eventually become a judge."},{"startTime":2321.49,"endTime":2324.49,"body":"What is the best advice you"},{"startTime":2321.49,"endTime":2324.49,"body":"would give him at the age of 18?"},{"startTime":2327.28,"endTime":2330.04,"body":"- I would certainly recommend"},{"startTime":2327.28,"endTime":2330.04,"body":"a career in the law."},{"startTime":2330.04,"endTime":2331.36,"body":"I've thoroughly enjoyed"},{"startTime":2331.36,"endTime":2334.27,"body":"all the different aspects of my career"},{"startTime":2334.27,"endTime":2338.47,"body":"and I think that legal"},{"startTime":2334.27,"endTime":2338.47,"body":"training as a mental discipline"},{"startTime":2338.47,"endTime":2340.09,"body":"is a very good training"},{"startTime":2340.09,"endTime":2342.73,"body":"whether you choose to spend"},{"startTime":2340.09,"endTime":2342.73,"body":"your career as a lawyer"},{"startTime":2342.73,"endTime":2345.58,"body":"in one or more different"},{"startTime":2342.73,"endTime":2345.58,"body":"branches of the professions"},{"startTime":2345.58,"endTime":2348.463,"body":"or whether you choose to"},{"startTime":2345.58,"endTime":2348.463,"body":"go on to do something else."},{"startTime":2349.78,"endTime":2354.78,"body":"I think that if you are"},{"startTime":2349.78,"endTime":2354.78,"body":"minded to be making your way"},{"startTime":2355.66,"endTime":2357.55,"body":"towards the judiciary,"},{"startTime":2357.55,"endTime":2359.14,"body":"the important thing is that"},{"startTime":2359.14,"endTime":2363.19,"body":"wherever you practice as a lawyer,"},{"startTime":2363.19,"endTime":2368.11,"body":"you must keep primarily a"},{"startTime":2363.19,"endTime":2368.11,"body":"legal content to your work."},{"startTime":2369.13,"endTime":2374.13,"body":"One of the reasons why I left"},{"startTime":2369.13,"endTime":2374.13,"body":"the civil service when I did"},{"startTime":2374.38,"endTime":2379.15,"body":"was that I saw that if I was"},{"startTime":2374.38,"endTime":2379.15,"body":"promoted to a higher grade,"},{"startTime":2379.15,"endTime":2382.45,"body":"I would lose a lot of the"},{"startTime":2379.15,"endTime":2382.45,"body":"legal content of my job"},{"startTime":2382.45,"endTime":2386.95,"body":"and do more management and strategy."},{"startTime":2386.95,"endTime":2389.26,"body":"And although a lot of"},{"startTime":2386.95,"endTime":2389.26,"body":"lawyers really take to that"},{"startTime":2389.26,"endTime":2391.03,"body":"and really enjoy that,"},{"startTime":2391.03,"endTime":2394.9,"body":"I very much wanted to maintain"},{"startTime":2391.03,"endTime":2394.9,"body":"primarily a legal content."},{"startTime":2394.9,"endTime":2397.96,"body":"And if you are thinking of being a judge,"},{"startTime":2397.96,"endTime":2399.4,"body":"then I think that that is..."},{"startTime":2399.4,"endTime":2403.69,"body":"That still have to be an"},{"startTime":2399.4,"endTime":2403.69,"body":"important part of your career."},{"startTime":2403.69,"endTime":2404.523,"body":"And it's also..."},{"startTime":2404.523,"endTime":2407.8,"body":"I mean, one of the things"},{"startTime":2404.523,"endTime":2407.8,"body":"that certainly helped me"},{"startTime":2407.8,"endTime":2410.53,"body":"having come from a rather"},{"startTime":2407.8,"endTime":2410.53,"body":"unconventional background"},{"startTime":2410.53,"endTime":2414.73,"body":"for the judiciary was that I"},{"startTime":2410.53,"endTime":2414.73,"body":"had specialized in practice"},{"startTime":2414.73,"endTime":2417.85,"body":"in an area of law about"},{"startTime":2414.73,"endTime":2417.85,"body":"which there was a tribunal."},{"startTime":2417.85,"endTime":2420.19,"body":"So I had been a competition"},{"startTime":2417.85,"endTime":2420.19,"body":"lawyer in Grays Inn"},{"startTime":2420.19,"endTime":2422.62,"body":"and then my first judicial post"},{"startTime":2422.62,"endTime":2425.02,"body":"was in the Competition Appeal Tribunal."},{"startTime":2425.02,"endTime":2430.02,"body":"And I think that was helpful"},{"startTime":2425.02,"endTime":2430.02,"body":"because many fee paid judges"},{"startTime":2430.24,"endTime":2433.69,"body":"get their first post dealing with law"},{"startTime":2433.69,"endTime":2435.22,"body":"with which they're familiar."},{"startTime":2435.22,"endTime":2438.82,"body":"And once they've got some"},{"startTime":2435.22,"endTime":2438.82,"body":"experience and judge craft skills,"},{"startTime":2438.82,"endTime":2443.23,"body":"then they can move to be a judge"},{"startTime":2443.23,"endTime":2445.33,"body":"in other areas of the law as well."},{"startTime":2445.33,"endTime":2447.58,"body":"So I think those would be the two things."},{"startTime":2447.58,"endTime":2448.413,"body":"- Great, thank you."},{"startTime":2448.413,"endTime":2450.76,"body":"I think there were some"},{"startTime":2448.413,"endTime":2450.76,"body":"other questions in the hall."},{"startTime":2450.76,"endTime":2453.56,"body":"If you could wait, sir, just"},{"startTime":2450.76,"endTime":2453.56,"body":"for the mic to come to you."},{"startTime":2457.631,"endTime":2461.84,"body":"- [Man] The recently leaked"},{"startTime":2457.631,"endTime":2461.84,"body":"judgment of the Us Supreme Court"},{"startTime":2463.09,"endTime":2467.65,"body":"on abortion rights shows that"},{"startTime":2463.09,"endTime":2467.65,"body":"the court is sharply polarized"},{"startTime":2467.65,"endTime":2469.57,"body":"on purely political lines"},{"startTime":2469.57,"endTime":2472.51,"body":"which have nothing to do with"},{"startTime":2469.57,"endTime":2472.51,"body":"constitutional principles."},{"startTime":2472.51,"endTime":2475.06,"body":"Would you agree that"},{"startTime":2472.51,"endTime":2475.06,"body":"this is the inevitable"},{"startTime":2475.06,"endTime":2476.89,"body":"and very unfortunate result"},{"startTime":2476.89,"endTime":2480.31,"body":"of the fatally flawed"},{"startTime":2476.89,"endTime":2480.31,"body":"judicial appointment system"},{"startTime":2480.31,"endTime":2482.01,"body":"which is enforced in that country?"},{"startTime":2483.547,"endTime":2486.61,"body":"(audience laughing)"},{"startTime":2486.61,"endTime":2490.09,"body":"- I think that one of the"},{"startTime":2486.61,"endTime":2490.09,"body":"things that one learns"},{"startTime":2490.09,"endTime":2492.99,"body":"as a judge is that..."},{"startTime":2494.62,"endTime":2498.59,"body":"And as a lawyer that procedural matters"},{"startTime":2500.17,"endTime":2503.17,"body":"are very individual"},{"startTime":2500.17,"endTime":2503.17,"body":"for different countries"},{"startTime":2503.17,"endTime":2508.17,"body":"and every country will make"},{"startTime":2503.17,"endTime":2508.17,"body":"murder a criminal offense,"},{"startTime":2510.58,"endTime":2513.61,"body":"but when it comes to the"},{"startTime":2510.58,"endTime":2513.61,"body":"organization of the courts"},{"startTime":2513.61,"endTime":2516.49,"body":"and the method for selecting judges"},{"startTime":2516.49,"endTime":2519.79,"body":"there are a whole range"},{"startTime":2516.49,"endTime":2519.79,"body":"of different models"},{"startTime":2519.79,"endTime":2522.55,"body":"which are used."},{"startTime":2522.55,"endTime":2525.343,"body":"The French example is one I gave."},{"startTime":2526.6,"endTime":2529.36,"body":"Here we don't have political involvement"},{"startTime":2529.36,"endTime":2531.02,"body":"in the appointment of judges"},{"startTime":2532.6,"endTime":2536.65,"body":"whether there is inevitably polarization"},{"startTime":2536.65,"endTime":2539.35,"body":"if you do have a political"},{"startTime":2536.65,"endTime":2539.35,"body":"component, I don't know."},{"startTime":2539.35,"endTime":2542.65,"body":"I mean, I would say that even in the US"},{"startTime":2542.65,"endTime":2546.52,"body":"the number of cases in which politics"},{"startTime":2546.52,"endTime":2550.33,"body":"either with a big P or a"},{"startTime":2546.52,"endTime":2550.33,"body":"small P is actually relevant,"},{"startTime":2550.33,"endTime":2551.163,"body":"is tiny."},{"startTime":2551.163,"endTime":2555.01,"body":"Those are the ones of course"},{"startTime":2551.163,"endTime":2555.01,"body":"that get the media coverage,"},{"startTime":2555.01,"endTime":2557.65,"body":"but most of the cases"},{"startTime":2555.01,"endTime":2557.65,"body":"that most of us are doing"},{"startTime":2557.65,"endTime":2560.71,"body":"most of the time are nothing to do"},{"startTime":2560.71,"endTime":2564.073,"body":"with those kinds of controversial areas."},{"startTime":2565.75,"endTime":2568.12,"body":"- I think (indistinct)"},{"startTime":2569.59,"endTime":2571.153,"body":"Okay, one just there."},{"startTime":2572.83,"endTime":2573.67,"body":"- [Woman] Yes, good evening."},{"startTime":2573.67,"endTime":2574.783,"body":"Thank you very much."},{"startTime":2575.71,"endTime":2577.24,"body":"Could you please tell me,"},{"startTime":2577.24,"endTime":2579.67,"body":"you have only touched very lightly"},{"startTime":2579.67,"endTime":2583.483,"body":"on the impartiality of judges"},{"startTime":2579.67,"endTime":2583.483,"body":"as one of the characteristics."},{"startTime":2584.62,"endTime":2586.42,"body":"As a hospital doctor and a lawyer"},{"startTime":2586.42,"endTime":2589.33,"body":"I would like to know there has"},{"startTime":2586.42,"endTime":2589.33,"body":"been a lot of recent research"},{"startTime":2589.33,"endTime":2591.04,"body":"in subconscious bias"},{"startTime":2591.04,"endTime":2593.89,"body":"especially in courts around the globe."},{"startTime":2593.89,"endTime":2598.06,"body":"Do judges get any training in"},{"startTime":2593.89,"endTime":2598.06,"body":"Britain in subconscious bias"},{"startTime":2598.06,"endTime":2600.52,"body":"and how do they go about it?"},{"startTime":2600.52,"endTime":2603.01,"body":"There's a lot of research"},{"startTime":2600.52,"endTime":2603.01,"body":"going on at the moment"},{"startTime":2603.01,"endTime":2607.21,"body":"showing that we are not aware"},{"startTime":2603.01,"endTime":2607.21,"body":"of our subconscious bias."},{"startTime":2607.21,"endTime":2609.52,"body":"- The answer to that is certainly, yes,"},{"startTime":2609.52,"endTime":2612.73,"body":"that at various stages"},{"startTime":2609.52,"endTime":2612.73,"body":"of my judicial career"},{"startTime":2612.73,"endTime":2617.56,"body":"I have had training in subconscious bias"},{"startTime":2617.56,"endTime":2620.71,"body":"and certainly all those who are involved"},{"startTime":2620.71,"endTime":2625.033,"body":"in the selection of judges"},{"startTime":2620.71,"endTime":2625.033,"body":"do undergo that training."},{"startTime":2626.5,"endTime":2630.46,"body":"And so that is part of the"},{"startTime":2626.5,"endTime":2630.46,"body":"importance of being open"},{"startTime":2630.46,"endTime":2632.776,"body":"to training and not regarding it"},{"startTime":2632.776,"endTime":2636.67,"body":"as something as an anathema"},{"startTime":2632.776,"endTime":2636.67,"body":"to one's independence."},{"startTime":2636.67,"endTime":2639.22,"body":"Yes, there is that kind of training."},{"startTime":2639.22,"endTime":2643.15,"body":"There is also a marvelous"},{"startTime":2639.22,"endTime":2643.15,"body":"publication called the bench book,"},{"startTime":2643.15,"endTime":2644.47,"body":"which I think is online,"},{"startTime":2644.47,"endTime":2649.36,"body":"which is a resource for judges"},{"startTime":2649.36,"endTime":2654.22,"body":"covering all sorts of different issues"},{"startTime":2654.22,"endTime":2658.06,"body":"about what language"},{"startTime":2654.22,"endTime":2658.06,"body":"it's appropriate to use,"},{"startTime":2658.06,"endTime":2661.27,"body":"about how one should make accommodations"},{"startTime":2661.27,"endTime":2664.03,"body":"for people with various disabilities."},{"startTime":2664.03,"endTime":2667.6,"body":"And we are often being"},{"startTime":2664.03,"endTime":2667.6,"body":"notified of updates for that."},{"startTime":2667.6,"endTime":2672.6,"body":"So for example, a year or so"},{"startTime":2667.6,"endTime":2672.6,"body":"ago there was an issue about"},{"startTime":2674.71,"endTime":2677.29,"body":"arrangements that you"},{"startTime":2674.71,"endTime":2677.29,"body":"should make for somebody"},{"startTime":2677.29,"endTime":2680.53,"body":"who's in court who has Asperger's syndrome"},{"startTime":2680.53,"endTime":2684.1,"body":"and little adjustments that you can make"},{"startTime":2684.1,"endTime":2686.05,"body":"which might not occur to you as a judge"},{"startTime":2686.05,"endTime":2688.27,"body":"if someone hadn't pointed it out."},{"startTime":2688.27,"endTime":2690.79,"body":"So yes, there is that resource,"},{"startTime":2690.79,"endTime":2695.79,"body":"which I've quite often"},{"startTime":2690.79,"endTime":2695.79,"body":"called on available to judges"},{"startTime":2696.13,"endTime":2700.63,"body":"and there is certainly a training"},{"startTime":2696.13,"endTime":2700.63,"body":"about that kind of thing."},{"startTime":2700.63,"endTime":2702.663,"body":"- I have a question about..."},{"startTime":2702.663,"endTime":2704.86,"body":"There's a couple of"},{"startTime":2702.663,"endTime":2704.86,"body":"questions about diversity."},{"startTime":2704.86,"endTime":2705.7,"body":"One is about women."},{"startTime":2705.7,"endTime":2707.17,"body":"Women are still in the minority"},{"startTime":2707.17,"endTime":2709.51,"body":"in the senior levels of the judiciary"},{"startTime":2709.51,"endTime":2712.27,"body":"and the process of climbing"},{"startTime":2709.51,"endTime":2712.27,"body":"the ladder can be daunting."},{"startTime":2712.27,"endTime":2715.483,"body":"Do you have any advice"},{"startTime":2712.27,"endTime":2715.483,"body":"for aspiring women judges?"},{"startTime":2717.07,"endTime":2720.16,"body":"- Just keep applying for positions."},{"startTime":2720.16,"endTime":2723.76,"body":"It will only get easier if"},{"startTime":2720.16,"endTime":2723.76,"body":"more people, more women do it."},{"startTime":2723.76,"endTime":2727.12,"body":"And I think you must never be put off"},{"startTime":2727.12,"endTime":2732.12,"body":"by the imbalance that"},{"startTime":2727.12,"endTime":2732.12,"body":"there is in the bench"},{"startTime":2733.96,"endTime":2737.893,"body":"to which you want to join."},{"startTime":2739.09,"endTime":2741.91,"body":"And every time you achieve something"},{"startTime":2741.91,"endTime":2744.91,"body":"you make it that a bit easier"},{"startTime":2741.91,"endTime":2744.91,"body":"for the people who come after."},{"startTime":2745.84,"endTime":2747.67,"body":"- Okay, there's another one here."},{"startTime":2747.67,"endTime":2749.228,"body":"A very concise question."},{"startTime":2749.228,"endTime":2751.27,"body":"Do good judges try their best"},{"startTime":2751.27,"endTime":2753.243,"body":"to keep their judgments concise?"},{"startTime":2753.243,"endTime":2756.85,"body":"(audience laughing)"},{"startTime":2756.85,"endTime":2761.46,"body":"- This length of judgments"},{"startTime":2756.85,"endTime":2761.46,"body":"is certainly a point"},{"startTime":2764.89,"endTime":2766.813,"body":"that people complain about."},{"startTime":2768.07,"endTime":2771.46,"body":"And it's a factor of a number of things."},{"startTime":2771.46,"endTime":2775.57,"body":"The word processor of course"},{"startTime":2771.46,"endTime":2775.57,"body":"makes everything a bit longer."},{"startTime":2775.57,"endTime":2780.57,"body":"The availability online of so"},{"startTime":2775.57,"endTime":2780.57,"body":"many thousands of authorities"},{"startTime":2780.7,"endTime":2784.81,"body":"mean that many more authorities"},{"startTime":2780.7,"endTime":2784.81,"body":"are cited to the courts"},{"startTime":2784.81,"endTime":2789.01,"body":"and judges feel that they"},{"startTime":2784.81,"endTime":2789.01,"body":"need to deal with them."},{"startTime":2789.01,"endTime":2792.19,"body":"Arguments are very sophisticated."},{"startTime":2792.19,"endTime":2794.41,"body":"And even though the court of appeal"},{"startTime":2794.41,"endTime":2799.21,"body":"keeps telling high court judges"},{"startTime":2794.41,"endTime":2799.21,"body":"and judges in other benches,"},{"startTime":2799.21,"endTime":2802.33,"body":"don't feel you have to"},{"startTime":2799.21,"endTime":2802.33,"body":"deal with every point."},{"startTime":2802.33,"endTime":2807.33,"body":"There is a feeling that"},{"startTime":2802.33,"endTime":2807.33,"body":"in order to give people"},{"startTime":2807.61,"endTime":2812.44,"body":"a sense that they've had"},{"startTime":2807.61,"endTime":2812.44,"body":"a good, a fair hearing"},{"startTime":2812.44,"endTime":2813.58,"body":"even if they've lost"},{"startTime":2813.58,"endTime":2816.88,"body":"and of course that's most"},{"startTime":2813.58,"endTime":2816.88,"body":"important for the side that lose,"},{"startTime":2816.88,"endTime":2820.72,"body":"they do have to see a"},{"startTime":2816.88,"endTime":2820.72,"body":"substantial written judgment."},{"startTime":2820.72,"endTime":2824.02,"body":"And I think that if you've"},{"startTime":2820.72,"endTime":2824.02,"body":"presided over a trial"},{"startTime":2824.02,"endTime":2827.41,"body":"as I sometimes did for 30, 32 days,"},{"startTime":2827.41,"endTime":2830.44,"body":"people expect quite a"},{"startTime":2827.41,"endTime":2830.44,"body":"tone at the end of that."},{"startTime":2830.44,"endTime":2833.44,"body":"And that you also need to realize"},{"startTime":2833.44,"endTime":2835.03,"body":"that the judgment is directed"},{"startTime":2835.03,"endTime":2838.03,"body":"at a number of different audiences"},{"startTime":2838.03,"endTime":2843.03,"body":"and the parties are not"},{"startTime":2838.03,"endTime":2843.03,"body":"interested in all the legal part."},{"startTime":2844.45,"endTime":2847.06,"body":"They're interested in the"},{"startTime":2844.45,"endTime":2847.06,"body":"bit that the law students"},{"startTime":2847.06,"endTime":2849.01,"body":"and the academics and the court of appeal"},{"startTime":2849.01,"endTime":2851.17,"body":"sometimes just scroll down through"},{"startTime":2851.17,"endTime":2852.94,"body":"which is the findings of fact"},{"startTime":2852.94,"endTime":2857.38,"body":"because they want to know"},{"startTime":2852.94,"endTime":2857.38,"body":"were they believed or not."},{"startTime":2857.38,"endTime":2862.38,"body":"And to give them that sense"},{"startTime":2857.38,"endTime":2862.38,"body":"of having had a proper hearing"},{"startTime":2863.2,"endTime":2867.1,"body":"and enable them to move on"},{"startTime":2867.1,"endTime":2871.54,"body":"after the closure of the proceedings,"},{"startTime":2871.54,"endTime":2875.53,"body":"they have to see that the"},{"startTime":2871.54,"endTime":2875.53,"body":"judges really understood"},{"startTime":2875.53,"endTime":2878.9,"body":"what was going on, has"},{"startTime":2875.53,"endTime":2878.9,"body":"really assessed the evidence"},{"startTime":2879.76,"endTime":2881.74,"body":"and I think that that takes up time"},{"startTime":2881.74,"endTime":2884.2,"body":"and it takes up space nowadays."},{"startTime":2884.2,"endTime":2889.2,"body":"So of course one tries to be concise,"},{"startTime":2889.81,"endTime":2894.81,"body":"but I think that the days when judges"},{"startTime":2894.88,"endTime":2898.87,"body":"would just extemporary"},{"startTime":2894.88,"endTime":2898.87,"body":"give a four page judgment"},{"startTime":2898.87,"endTime":2900.25,"body":"after a substantial trial,"},{"startTime":2900.25,"endTime":2903.07,"body":"I'm afraid are gone and"},{"startTime":2900.25,"endTime":2903.07,"body":"they're not coming back."},{"startTime":2903.07,"endTime":2904.007,"body":"- Thank you."},{"startTime":2904.007,"endTime":2905.5,"body":"Are there any other questions in the hall?"},{"startTime":2905.5,"endTime":2906.97,"body":"There's one over here,"},{"startTime":2906.97,"endTime":2909.32,"body":"and then we will probably"},{"startTime":2906.97,"endTime":2909.32,"body":"finish at that point."},{"startTime":2912.64,"endTime":2916.42,"body":"- [Man] Just wanted to ask"},{"startTime":2912.64,"endTime":2916.42,"body":"about when you have a hearing"},{"startTime":2916.42,"endTime":2918.37,"body":"and arguments are being made"},{"startTime":2918.37,"endTime":2920.86,"body":"rather than evidence being given,"},{"startTime":2920.86,"endTime":2925.86,"body":"how active or passive"},{"startTime":2920.86,"endTime":2925.86,"body":"should a good judge be"},{"startTime":2926.41,"endTime":2927.41,"body":"during that hearing?"},{"startTime":2928.27,"endTime":2929.103,"body":"- Right."},{"startTime":2931.03,"endTime":2932.86,"body":"I think that advocates"},{"startTime":2936.04,"endTime":2941.04,"body":"and the parties often"},{"startTime":2936.04,"endTime":2941.04,"body":"misinterpret interventions"},{"startTime":2942.34,"endTime":2943.693,"body":"from the bench."},{"startTime":2945.1,"endTime":2949.75,"body":"I think you can't overstate the extent"},{"startTime":2949.75,"endTime":2952.99,"body":"to which the judge from the"},{"startTime":2949.75,"endTime":2952.99,"body":"moment they arrive in court"},{"startTime":2952.99,"endTime":2954.55,"body":"is thinking about the judgment"},{"startTime":2954.55,"endTime":2956.413,"body":"that they're going to have to write."},{"startTime":2958.09,"endTime":2963.09,"body":"And most of the questions"},{"startTime":2958.09,"endTime":2963.09,"body":"are directed at the judge,"},{"startTime":2965.05,"endTime":2968.35,"body":"making sure that they"},{"startTime":2965.05,"endTime":2968.35,"body":"have tested the arguments"},{"startTime":2968.35,"endTime":2970.54,"body":"so that they know whether"},{"startTime":2968.35,"endTime":2970.54,"body":"they're going to agree with them"},{"startTime":2970.54,"endTime":2974.77,"body":"or not how they're going to"},{"startTime":2970.54,"endTime":2974.77,"body":"deal with them in the judgment."},{"startTime":2974.77,"endTime":2977.17,"body":"And also trying..."},{"startTime":2977.17,"endTime":2979.15,"body":"The thing that's most"},{"startTime":2977.17,"endTime":2979.15,"body":"difficult about judgment"},{"startTime":2979.15,"endTime":2981.4,"body":"is getting the structure right."},{"startTime":2981.4,"endTime":2984.67,"body":"And that is something where"},{"startTime":2981.4,"endTime":2984.67,"body":"submissions from council"},{"startTime":2984.67,"endTime":2987.193,"body":"are not always very helpful."},{"startTime":2989.29,"endTime":2991.54,"body":"Submissions from council"},{"startTime":2989.29,"endTime":2991.54,"body":"can have a section note,"},{"startTime":2991.54,"endTime":2994.48,"body":"the meeting of the 6th of"},{"startTime":2991.54,"endTime":2994.48,"body":"June, they say this happen."},{"startTime":2994.48,"endTime":2995.41,"body":"We say that happened."},{"startTime":2995.41,"endTime":2997.3,"body":"You should decide in"},{"startTime":2995.41,"endTime":2997.3,"body":"favor of all witnesses,"},{"startTime":2997.3,"endTime":3000.15,"body":"but the judge just can't"},{"startTime":2997.3,"endTime":3000.15,"body":"have a judgment that says,"},{"startTime":3000.15,"endTime":3002.37,"body":"the meeting of the 6th"},{"startTime":3000.15,"endTime":3002.37,"body":"of June I believe him."},{"startTime":3002.37,"endTime":3006.33,"body":"It's got to be brought into"},{"startTime":3002.37,"endTime":3006.33,"body":"some kind of structure."},{"startTime":3006.33,"endTime":3008.43,"body":"So I think a lot of judicial intervention"},{"startTime":3008.43,"endTime":3010.5,"body":"is testing the arguments,"},{"startTime":3010.5,"endTime":3014.1,"body":"trying to work out what is the scheme"},{"startTime":3014.1,"endTime":3017.583,"body":"that I'm going ultimately to"},{"startTime":3014.1,"endTime":3017.583,"body":"have to follow in the judgment."},{"startTime":3018.84,"endTime":3023.84,"body":"I really enjoy the to and fro"},{"startTime":3018.84,"endTime":3023.84,"body":"between council and the bench."},{"startTime":3024.84,"endTime":3028.5,"body":"Sometimes council say they"},{"startTime":3024.84,"endTime":3028.5,"body":"find it quite unnerving"},{"startTime":3028.5,"endTime":3031.47,"body":"if the judge actually sits"},{"startTime":3028.5,"endTime":3031.47,"body":"there completely silently"},{"startTime":3031.47,"endTime":3032.43,"body":"throughout the hearing"},{"startTime":3032.43,"endTime":3037.11,"body":"because they have no"},{"startTime":3032.43,"endTime":3037.11,"body":"idea where it's going."},{"startTime":3037.11,"endTime":3040.98,"body":"So I think the good advocates"},{"startTime":3040.98,"endTime":3044.373,"body":"are able to respond in a helpful way."},{"startTime":3045.93,"endTime":3048.99,"body":"Whether sometimes judges"},{"startTime":3045.93,"endTime":3048.99,"body":"press a little bit too hard."},{"startTime":3048.99,"endTime":3049.86,"body":"I don't know."},{"startTime":3049.86,"endTime":3052.65,"body":"I think people are mostly fairly tough,"},{"startTime":3052.65,"endTime":3055.29,"body":"but that was one of the"},{"startTime":3052.65,"endTime":3055.29,"body":"things that I mentioned about"},{"startTime":3055.29,"endTime":3056.313,"body":"in the talk."},{"startTime":3057.57,"endTime":3059.61,"body":"But I think that..."},{"startTime":3059.61,"endTime":3062.91,"body":"I'd say to barristers, don't"},{"startTime":3059.61,"endTime":3062.91,"body":"try and read too much in"},{"startTime":3062.91,"endTime":3064.71,"body":"into the nature of the questions"},{"startTime":3064.71,"endTime":3066.693,"body":"or the extent of the questioning."},{"startTime":3067.92,"endTime":3070.47,"body":"It's really just the"},{"startTime":3067.92,"endTime":3070.47,"body":"judge trying to work out"},{"startTime":3070.47,"endTime":3071.79,"body":"not only what the answer is,"},{"startTime":3071.79,"endTime":3073.893,"body":"but how they're going to express that."},{"startTime":3075.6,"endTime":3076.433,"body":"- Well, Lady Rose,"},{"startTime":3076.433,"endTime":3078.99,"body":"I'd like to thank you on"},{"startTime":3076.433,"endTime":3078.99,"body":"behalf of Gresham College"},{"startTime":3078.99,"endTime":3082.2,"body":"for your presentation of this"},{"startTime":3078.99,"endTime":3082.2,"body":"year's Grays Inn Reading,"},{"startTime":3082.2,"endTime":3084.3,"body":"it was really fascinating"},{"startTime":3082.2,"endTime":3084.3,"body":"to hear your views"},{"startTime":3084.3,"endTime":3087.21,"body":"on the characteristics"},{"startTime":3084.3,"endTime":3087.21,"body":"that make a good judge."},{"startTime":3087.21,"endTime":3089.0,"body":"We'd like to thank you for your generosity"},{"startTime":3089.0,"endTime":3091.2,"body":"in devoting your time this evening"},{"startTime":3091.2,"endTime":3095.25,"body":"and to the lecture and to"},{"startTime":3091.2,"endTime":3095.25,"body":"answering the audience questions."},{"startTime":3095.25,"endTime":3097.05,"body":"The whole presentation"},{"startTime":3095.25,"endTime":3097.05,"body":"is a welcome addition"},{"startTime":3097.05,"endTime":3100.92,"body":"to the Grays Inn series which"},{"startTime":3097.05,"endTime":3100.92,"body":"you can all check out online."},{"startTime":3100.92,"endTime":3102.63,"body":"It's on our website."},{"startTime":3102.63,"endTime":3104.79,"body":"We'd also like of course to thank"},{"startTime":3104.79,"endTime":3107.7,"body":"the honorable society of Grays Inn"},{"startTime":3107.7,"endTime":3110.553,"body":"for your co-sponsorship of this event."},{"startTime":3111.39,"endTime":3114.48,"body":"And finally, thanks to"},{"startTime":3111.39,"endTime":3114.48,"body":"our audience those both..."},{"startTime":3114.48,"endTime":3115.89,"body":"Both those attending in-person"},{"startTime":3115.89,"endTime":3118.17,"body":"and those of you who"},{"startTime":3115.89,"endTime":3118.17,"body":"have joined us online,"},{"startTime":3118.17,"endTime":3120.51,"body":"thank you for your attention this evening."},{"startTime":3120.51,"endTime":3123.66,"body":"This is the final lecture"},{"startTime":3120.51,"endTime":3123.66,"body":"in Gresham College's"},{"startTime":3123.66,"endTime":3125.85,"body":"academic program for this year."},{"startTime":3125.85,"endTime":3130.38,"body":"So please do keep an eye"},{"startTime":3125.85,"endTime":3130.38,"body":"out for our next program"},{"startTime":3130.38,"endTime":3132.69,"body":"that will be issued online in August."},{"startTime":3132.69,"endTime":3135.33,"body":"We have lots of exciting"},{"startTime":3132.69,"endTime":3135.33,"body":"new lectures coming out"},{"startTime":3135.33,"endTime":3137.55,"body":"and we look forward to welcoming you back."},{"startTime":3137.55,"endTime":3141.24,"body":"So please do join me in"},{"startTime":3137.55,"endTime":3141.24,"body":"thanking our speaker again,"},{"startTime":3141.24,"endTime":3142.268,"body":"Lady Rose."},{"startTime":3142.268,"endTime":3145.268,"body":"(audience clapping)"}]}