{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":0.12,"endTime":0.953,"body":"- Welcome."},{"startTime":2.28,"endTime":5.673,"body":"Let me start with three quotes."},{"startTime":6.87,"endTime":11.82,"body":"Firstly, \"There can be no free society"},{"startTime":11.82,"endTime":15.963,"body":"without law administered through"},{"startTime":11.82,"endTime":15.963,"body":"an independent judiciary."},{"startTime":16.86,"endTime":21.33,"body":"If one man can be allowed"},{"startTime":16.86,"endTime":21.33,"body":"to determine for himself"},{"startTime":21.33,"endTime":26.33,"body":"what is law, every man can,"},{"startTime":21.33,"endTime":26.33,"body":"that means chaos, then tyranny.\""},{"startTime":30.75,"endTime":32.64,"body":"That was Mr. Justice Frankfurter"},{"startTime":32.64,"endTime":36.33,"body":"in his concurring judgment"},{"startTime":32.64,"endTime":36.33,"body":"in the United States"},{"startTime":36.33,"endTime":39.123,"body":"against the United Mine Workers."},{"startTime":39.99,"endTime":43.11,"body":"This quote was in the context of a case"},{"startTime":43.11,"endTime":47.25,"body":"where the Supreme Court"},{"startTime":43.11,"endTime":47.25,"body":"upheld a restraining order"},{"startTime":47.25,"endTime":51.063,"body":"that prohibited mine"},{"startTime":47.25,"endTime":51.063,"body":"workers from striking."},{"startTime":53.7,"endTime":58.7,"body":"Secondly, \"The law in"},{"startTime":53.7,"endTime":58.7,"body":"its majestic equality"},{"startTime":59.52,"endTime":62.28,"body":"forbids the rich as well as the poor"},{"startTime":62.28,"endTime":66.09,"body":"to sleep under bridges,"},{"startTime":62.28,"endTime":66.09,"body":"to beg in the streets,"},{"startTime":66.09,"endTime":67.797,"body":"and to steal bread.\""},{"startTime":71.76,"endTime":75.873,"body":"Anatole France,"},{"startTime":71.76,"endTime":75.873,"body":"Nobel-winning French writer."},{"startTime":77.25,"endTime":81.9,"body":"And finally, the third"},{"startTime":77.25,"endTime":81.9,"body":"quote in this trilogy"},{"startTime":81.9,"endTime":86.4,"body":"is from Nelson Mandela's"},{"startTime":81.9,"endTime":86.4,"body":"speech at his famous"},{"startTime":86.4,"endTime":88.203,"body":"or infamous trial."},{"startTime":89.347,"endTime":94.347,"body":"\"Why is it in this courtroom"},{"startTime":89.347,"endTime":94.347,"body":"I face a white magistrate,"},{"startTime":95.88,"endTime":99.48,"body":"I'm confronted by a white prosecutor,"},{"startTime":99.48,"endTime":103.47,"body":"escorted into the dock by a white orderly."},{"startTime":103.47,"endTime":106.83,"body":"Can anyone honestly and seriously suggest"},{"startTime":106.83,"endTime":109.41,"body":"that in this type of atmosphere,"},{"startTime":109.41,"endTime":112.593,"body":"the scales of justice are evenly balanced?"},{"startTime":113.52,"endTime":118.52,"body":"I detest most violently a"},{"startTime":113.52,"endTime":118.52,"body":"setup that surrounds me here."},{"startTime":119.43,"endTime":124.43,"body":"It makes me feel I am a Black"},{"startTime":119.43,"endTime":124.43,"body":"man in a white man's court.\""},{"startTime":130.081,"endTime":134.331,"body":"In the last lecture I asked"},{"startTime":130.081,"endTime":134.331,"body":"whether we need juries."},{"startTime":135.63,"endTime":138.96,"body":"In this lecture I'm looking"},{"startTime":135.63,"endTime":138.96,"body":"at the related question,"},{"startTime":138.96,"endTime":140.433,"body":"do we need judges?"},{"startTime":141.54,"endTime":144.783,"body":"In many ways, this is a much"},{"startTime":141.54,"endTime":144.783,"body":"more fundamental question."},{"startTime":145.62,"endTime":149.34,"body":"Plenty of legal systems have no juries,"},{"startTime":149.34,"endTime":152.853,"body":"but every legal system"},{"startTime":149.34,"endTime":152.853,"body":"in the world has judges."},{"startTime":153.72,"endTime":157.77,"body":"An independent judiciary is usually seen"},{"startTime":157.77,"endTime":162.24,"body":"as the sine qua non, an indispensable"},{"startTime":162.24,"endTime":165.723,"body":"and essential condition"},{"startTime":162.24,"endTime":165.723,"body":"of a liberal democracy."},{"startTime":167.04,"endTime":169.38,"body":"My own profession, the practice of law"},{"startTime":169.38,"endTime":171.693,"body":"would be impossible without judges."},{"startTime":173.46,"endTime":177.51,"body":"So far more than the last lecture,"},{"startTime":177.51,"endTime":180.9,"body":"this lecture requires us to examine"},{"startTime":180.9,"endTime":183.843,"body":"the fundamentals of the legal system."},{"startTime":186.63,"endTime":191.63,"body":"Let's start by articulating"},{"startTime":186.63,"endTime":191.63,"body":"a few arguments"},{"startTime":191.64,"endTime":193.293,"body":"in favor of judges."},{"startTime":194.43,"endTime":198.15,"body":"If we were looking to"},{"startTime":194.43,"endTime":198.15,"body":"explain why we needed judges,"},{"startTime":198.15,"endTime":199.293,"body":"what would we say?"},{"startTime":200.34,"endTime":202.86,"body":"First, I suppose we would say"},{"startTime":202.86,"endTime":206.49,"body":"judges are essential to the rule of law."},{"startTime":206.49,"endTime":210.99,"body":"In modern society, we need"},{"startTime":206.49,"endTime":210.99,"body":"to have legal certainty."},{"startTime":210.99,"endTime":213.33,"body":"We need a body of law that is administered"},{"startTime":213.33,"endTime":216.6,"body":"consistently and impartially."},{"startTime":216.6,"endTime":220.983,"body":"We need to know, for instance,"},{"startTime":216.6,"endTime":220.983,"body":"what conduct is criminal,"},{"startTime":221.94,"endTime":224.46,"body":"and when it is not criminal,"},{"startTime":224.46,"endTime":227.91,"body":"so that we can adapt our"},{"startTime":224.46,"endTime":227.91,"body":"behavior accordingly."},{"startTime":227.91,"endTime":230.91,"body":"We need to know when"},{"startTime":227.91,"endTime":230.91,"body":"we're accused of a crime,"},{"startTime":230.91,"endTime":232.95,"body":"that we will have a fair trial,"},{"startTime":232.95,"endTime":237.48,"body":"and that the law will be"},{"startTime":232.95,"endTime":237.48,"body":"applied impartially to us."},{"startTime":237.48,"endTime":240.84,"body":"In order for us to make"},{"startTime":237.48,"endTime":240.84,"body":"financial decisions,"},{"startTime":240.84,"endTime":244.8,"body":"we need to know that our"},{"startTime":240.84,"endTime":244.8,"body":"contracts will be enforced,"},{"startTime":244.8,"endTime":248.55,"body":"and our property rights protected."},{"startTime":248.55,"endTime":251.313,"body":"And if our rights are violated,"},{"startTime":252.15,"endTime":256.863,"body":"we need to know that we can"},{"startTime":252.15,"endTime":256.863,"body":"seek justice in the courts."},{"startTime":258.06,"endTime":261.72,"body":"We need to know that the law"},{"startTime":258.06,"endTime":261.72,"body":"will be applied consistently,"},{"startTime":261.72,"endTime":264.81,"body":"and that the application of law"},{"startTime":264.81,"endTime":268.923,"body":"won't be influenced by"},{"startTime":264.81,"endTime":268.923,"body":"political or personal favor."},{"startTime":270.15,"endTime":272.37,"body":"In order to achieve this,"},{"startTime":272.37,"endTime":276.21,"body":"we need an impartial"},{"startTime":272.37,"endTime":276.21,"body":"body of decision-makers,"},{"startTime":276.21,"endTime":278.91,"body":"who are not beholden to government,"},{"startTime":278.91,"endTime":283.91,"body":"and who apply a consistent body of rules"},{"startTime":284.13,"endTime":286.353,"body":"guided by precedent."},{"startTime":288.12,"endTime":291.42,"body":"Second, we would say, would we not?"},{"startTime":291.42,"endTime":294.75,"body":"Judges provide an important check"},{"startTime":294.75,"endTime":296.673,"body":"on the power of the executive,"},{"startTime":298.44,"endTime":302.79,"body":"and a safeguard for the"},{"startTime":298.44,"endTime":302.79,"body":"rights of minorities."},{"startTime":302.79,"endTime":305.97,"body":"We might say that this"},{"startTime":302.79,"endTime":305.97,"body":"is particularly important"},{"startTime":305.97,"endTime":308.55,"body":"in a country such as the UK,"},{"startTime":308.55,"endTime":311.43,"body":"where a government with a solid majority"},{"startTime":311.43,"endTime":313.26,"body":"in the House of Commons"},{"startTime":313.26,"endTime":317.583,"body":"has very few other"},{"startTime":313.26,"endTime":317.583,"body":"restraints on its power."},{"startTime":320.4,"endTime":321.9,"body":"On the other hand,"},{"startTime":321.9,"endTime":325.56,"body":"what would we say if"},{"startTime":321.9,"endTime":325.56,"body":"we wanted to criticize"},{"startTime":325.56,"endTime":327.843,"body":"the institution of the judiciary?"},{"startTime":329.25,"endTime":334.25,"body":"First, we'd say that the judiciary"},{"startTime":334.35,"endTime":339.35,"body":"is an unrepresented body of"},{"startTime":334.35,"endTime":339.35,"body":"primarily men of society,"},{"startTime":342.42,"endTime":347.42,"body":"that is disproportionately"},{"startTime":342.42,"endTime":347.42,"body":"drawn from privileged groups."},{"startTime":347.55,"endTime":349.98,"body":"Judges from privileged backgrounds"},{"startTime":349.98,"endTime":354.3,"body":"frequently sit in judgment"},{"startTime":349.98,"endTime":354.3,"body":"on marginalized people,"},{"startTime":354.3,"endTime":358.233,"body":"whose lives and experiences"},{"startTime":354.3,"endTime":358.233,"body":"they do not understand at all."},{"startTime":359.82,"endTime":361.473,"body":"Second, we might say,"},{"startTime":362.55,"endTime":366.3,"body":"judges aren't democratically accountable,"},{"startTime":366.3,"endTime":369.0,"body":"and that vesting so much power"},{"startTime":369.0,"endTime":372.303,"body":"in the judiciary is undemocratic."},{"startTime":373.29,"endTime":378.29,"body":"Third, we may say that"},{"startTime":373.29,"endTime":378.29,"body":"judges are trained in law,"},{"startTime":378.93,"endTime":383.92,"body":"and that an education in law"},{"startTime":378.93,"endTime":383.92,"body":"doesn't necessarily equip them"},{"startTime":384.81,"endTime":387.99,"body":"to make all the decisions"},{"startTime":384.81,"endTime":387.99,"body":"that our legal system"},{"startTime":387.99,"endTime":390.27,"body":"calls upon them to make."},{"startTime":390.27,"endTime":392.52,"body":"We might sum up by asking,"},{"startTime":392.52,"endTime":396.54,"body":"why we entrust judges with so much power"},{"startTime":396.54,"endTime":398.523,"body":"over people's lives."},{"startTime":399.81,"endTime":401.163,"body":"So come with me."},{"startTime":402.06,"endTime":405.54,"body":"Let's dive into these"},{"startTime":402.06,"endTime":405.54,"body":"issues in more detail."},{"startTime":405.54,"endTime":408.63,"body":"First, we're going to ask what judges do,"},{"startTime":408.63,"endTime":410.61,"body":"and how well they do it,"},{"startTime":410.61,"endTime":414.81,"body":"second, we're going to look"},{"startTime":410.61,"endTime":414.81,"body":"at how judges are appointed,"},{"startTime":414.81,"endTime":416.85,"body":"to whom they are accountable,"},{"startTime":416.85,"endTime":419.79,"body":"and whether they're"},{"startTime":416.85,"endTime":419.79,"body":"representative of society,"},{"startTime":419.79,"endTime":423.57,"body":"and third, we're going to"},{"startTime":419.79,"endTime":423.57,"body":"ask whether we need judges,"},{"startTime":423.57,"endTime":426.42,"body":"and look at what the alternatives are,"},{"startTime":426.42,"endTime":430.52,"body":"and ask what role judges"},{"startTime":426.42,"endTime":430.52,"body":"might make or play"},{"startTime":430.52,"endTime":432.663,"body":"in a fairer society."},{"startTime":435.24,"endTime":439.293,"body":"What do judges do, and"},{"startTime":435.24,"endTime":439.293,"body":"how well do they do it?"},{"startTime":441.6,"endTime":443.43,"body":"In the common law world,"},{"startTime":443.43,"endTime":446.01,"body":"professional judges are"},{"startTime":443.43,"endTime":446.01,"body":"drawn from the ranks"},{"startTime":446.01,"endTime":448.65,"body":"of professional lawyers."},{"startTime":448.65,"endTime":453.06,"body":"Their professional experience,"},{"startTime":448.65,"endTime":453.06,"body":"therefore, is twofold."},{"startTime":453.06,"endTime":457.17,"body":"First, they are experts in law,"},{"startTime":457.17,"endTime":462.17,"body":"secondly, they are experts in advocacy,"},{"startTime":462.81,"endTime":465.093,"body":"the art of persuasion."},{"startTime":466.86,"endTime":471.86,"body":"However, this expertise does"},{"startTime":466.86,"endTime":471.86,"body":"not necessarily equip them,"},{"startTime":472.53,"endTime":477.48,"body":"or mean that they are qualified"},{"startTime":472.53,"endTime":477.48,"body":"to perform all the tasks"},{"startTime":477.48,"endTime":481.35,"body":"that our legal system"},{"startTime":477.48,"endTime":481.35,"body":"requires them to perform."},{"startTime":481.35,"endTime":483.6,"body":"Let's look at a few of these."},{"startTime":483.6,"endTime":488.6,"body":"First, a major role judges"},{"startTime":483.6,"endTime":488.6,"body":"make is as finders of fact."},{"startTime":494.22,"endTime":497.88,"body":"In the vast majority"},{"startTime":494.22,"endTime":497.88,"body":"of judicial proceedings"},{"startTime":497.88,"endTime":502.863,"body":"in England and Wales,"},{"startTime":497.88,"endTime":502.863,"body":"which do not have a jury,"},{"startTime":504.51,"endTime":509.51,"body":"in most cases, the judge"},{"startTime":504.51,"endTime":509.51,"body":"is the trier of the fact."},{"startTime":510.03,"endTime":513.18,"body":"They need to assess the"},{"startTime":510.03,"endTime":513.18,"body":"credibility of witnesses,"},{"startTime":513.18,"endTime":516.75,"body":"decide between competing"},{"startTime":513.18,"endTime":516.75,"body":"versions of events,"},{"startTime":516.75,"endTime":519.813,"body":"and evaluate expert evidence."},{"startTime":521.28,"endTime":524.88,"body":"But judges with their training in law"},{"startTime":524.88,"endTime":529.143,"body":"are not particularly"},{"startTime":524.88,"endTime":529.143,"body":"well-equipped to do this."},{"startTime":530.16,"endTime":532.443,"body":"As I highlighted in a previous lecture,"},{"startTime":533.34,"endTime":538.34,"body":"judges often rely on"},{"startTime":533.34,"endTime":538.34,"body":"fallacious assumptions"},{"startTime":540.45,"endTime":544.17,"body":"when assessing the"},{"startTime":540.45,"endTime":544.17,"body":"credibility of witnesses."},{"startTime":544.17,"endTime":549.17,"body":"Many of these assumptions"},{"startTime":544.17,"endTime":549.17,"body":"were instilled in them"},{"startTime":549.18,"endTime":551.883,"body":"during their training as trial advocates,"},{"startTime":553.05,"endTime":556.68,"body":"when they learned how to"},{"startTime":553.05,"endTime":556.68,"body":"cross-examine effectively."},{"startTime":556.68,"endTime":560.22,"body":"For example, lawyers"},{"startTime":556.68,"endTime":560.22,"body":"and judges often believe"},{"startTime":560.22,"endTime":564.52,"body":"that internal, inconsistent accounts"},{"startTime":565.65,"endTime":568.713,"body":"is more likely to be a fabrication."},{"startTime":569.67,"endTime":573.24,"body":"Lawyers will often try"},{"startTime":569.67,"endTime":573.24,"body":"to elicit inconsistencies"},{"startTime":573.24,"endTime":576.873,"body":"in a witness's story in an"},{"startTime":573.24,"endTime":576.873,"body":"attempt to discredit them,"},{"startTime":578.669,"endTime":583.669,"body":"but we know from decades"},{"startTime":578.669,"endTime":583.669,"body":"of psychological research"},{"startTime":584.04,"endTime":587.313,"body":"that human memory is often poor,"},{"startTime":588.27,"endTime":592.74,"body":"that truthful accounts"},{"startTime":588.27,"endTime":592.74,"body":"are just as inconsistent"},{"startTime":592.74,"endTime":596.43,"body":"as false ones, and that"},{"startTime":592.74,"endTime":596.43,"body":"mental health conditions,"},{"startTime":596.43,"endTime":600.43,"body":"such as PTSD and depression"},{"startTime":601.35,"endTime":605.463,"body":"can impair a person's memory and recall."},{"startTime":606.3,"endTime":609.48,"body":"Similarly, in the past,"},{"startTime":606.3,"endTime":609.48,"body":"it was often thought"},{"startTime":609.48,"endTime":613.11,"body":"that a trial judge's"},{"startTime":609.48,"endTime":613.11,"body":"ability to see and hear"},{"startTime":613.11,"endTime":616.68,"body":"a witness-given evidence,"},{"startTime":613.11,"endTime":616.68,"body":"observe their demeanor,"},{"startTime":616.68,"endTime":620.283,"body":"was an important aspect"},{"startTime":616.68,"endTime":620.283,"body":"of assessing credibility."},{"startTime":621.21,"endTime":626.21,"body":"But we know that reliance on"},{"startTime":621.21,"endTime":626.21,"body":"demeanor can be very misleading"},{"startTime":626.58,"endTime":630.15,"body":"because a person's"},{"startTime":626.58,"endTime":630.15,"body":"demeanor can be affected"},{"startTime":630.15,"endTime":632.97,"body":"by their cultural background,"},{"startTime":632.97,"endTime":636.63,"body":"and by conditions such as autism and PTSD,"},{"startTime":636.63,"endTime":638.553,"body":"among other factors."},{"startTime":639.99,"endTime":643.02,"body":"Legal education doesn't"},{"startTime":639.99,"endTime":643.02,"body":"include any training"},{"startTime":643.02,"endTime":646.23,"body":"in psychology or mental health."},{"startTime":646.23,"endTime":651.06,"body":"In short, judges don't"},{"startTime":646.23,"endTime":651.06,"body":"have any special ability"},{"startTime":651.06,"endTime":653.793,"body":"to distinguish between"},{"startTime":651.06,"endTime":653.793,"body":"truth and falsehood,"},{"startTime":654.66,"endTime":657.183,"body":"but they often think they do."},{"startTime":659.25,"endTime":664.25,"body":"Similarly, judges can and do"},{"startTime":659.25,"endTime":664.25,"body":"misunderstand scientific issues"},{"startTime":667.98,"endTime":671.673,"body":"and sometimes this has dire consequences."},{"startTime":672.69,"endTime":676.44,"body":"An infamous example occurred"},{"startTime":672.69,"endTime":676.44,"body":"when the pediatrician saw"},{"startTime":676.44,"endTime":681.44,"body":"Roy Meadows testified"},{"startTime":676.44,"endTime":681.44,"body":"in the 1999 murder trial"},{"startTime":682.5,"endTime":685.447,"body":"of Sally Clark, and said that"},{"startTime":685.447,"endTime":688.29,"body":"\"The probability of two children dying"},{"startTime":688.29,"endTime":692.46,"body":"from sudden infant death syndrome, SIDS,"},{"startTime":692.46,"endTime":697.407,"body":"in the same family was one in 73 million.\""},{"startTime":698.73,"endTime":703.73,"body":"This statistic was fallacious"},{"startTime":698.73,"endTime":703.73,"body":"in multiple respects."},{"startTime":705.57,"endTime":710.22,"body":"First, Meadow's statistic was"},{"startTime":705.57,"endTime":710.22,"body":"based on a false assumption"},{"startTime":710.22,"endTime":712.71,"body":"that the probability of dying from SIDS"},{"startTime":712.71,"endTime":716.52,"body":"was uncorrelated between"},{"startTime":712.71,"endTime":716.52,"body":"children in the same family,"},{"startTime":716.52,"endTime":717.453,"body":"when it was not."},{"startTime":718.53,"endTime":722.76,"body":"Second, it also fell to"},{"startTime":718.53,"endTime":722.76,"body":"a statistical fallacy,"},{"startTime":722.76,"endTime":725.733,"body":"known as the prosecutor's fallacy,"},{"startTime":727.2,"endTime":730.083,"body":"as Dr. Ben Goldacre explained,"},{"startTime":731.647,"endTime":735.18,"body":"\"Two babies in one family have died."},{"startTime":735.18,"endTime":736.953,"body":"This in itself is very rare."},{"startTime":738.06,"endTime":740.46,"body":"Once this rare event has occurred,"},{"startTime":740.46,"endTime":744.45,"body":"the jury needs to weigh up"},{"startTime":740.46,"endTime":744.45,"body":"two competing explanations,"},{"startTime":744.45,"endTime":748.11,"body":"double SIDS or double murder."},{"startTime":748.11,"endTime":752.22,"body":"Under normal circumstances"},{"startTime":748.11,"endTime":752.22,"body":"before any babies have died,"},{"startTime":752.22,"endTime":757.22,"body":"double SIDS is very unlikely,"},{"startTime":752.22,"endTime":757.22,"body":"and so is double murder."},{"startTime":758.13,"endTime":761.19,"body":"But now that the rare"},{"startTime":758.13,"endTime":761.19,"body":"event of two babies dying"},{"startTime":761.19,"endTime":763.5,"body":"in one family has occurred,"},{"startTime":763.5,"endTime":768.243,"body":"the two explanations are"},{"startTime":763.5,"endTime":768.243,"body":"suddenly both very likely."},{"startTime":769.41,"endTime":772.86,"body":"If we really wanted to play statistics,"},{"startTime":772.86,"endTime":777.86,"body":"we would need to know which"},{"startTime":772.86,"endTime":777.86,"body":"is relatively more rare,"},{"startTime":777.99,"endTime":780.987,"body":"double SIDS or double murder.\""},{"startTime":784.86,"endTime":786.6,"body":"Goldacre goes on to point out"},{"startTime":786.6,"endTime":790.5,"body":"that the criminal division"},{"startTime":786.6,"endTime":790.5,"body":"of the court of appeal"},{"startTime":790.5,"endTime":794.46,"body":"also misunderstood the"},{"startTime":790.5,"endTime":794.46,"body":"significance of the figures."},{"startTime":794.46,"endTime":798.03,"body":"He said, \"Not only was this crucial nuance"},{"startTime":798.03,"endTime":800.64,"body":"missed at the time,"},{"startTime":800.64,"endTime":804.9,"body":"it was also clearly missed in the appeal."},{"startTime":804.9,"endTime":809.9,"body":"They suggested that instead"},{"startTime":804.9,"endTime":809.9,"body":"of one in 73 million,"},{"startTime":810.75,"endTime":815.3,"body":"Meadows should have said, 'Very rare.'\""},{"startTime":818.34,"endTime":821.79,"body":"Another factor that"},{"startTime":818.34,"endTime":821.79,"body":"can affect fact finding"},{"startTime":821.79,"endTime":826.487,"body":"is that like everyone, judges have biases,"},{"startTime":828.0,"endTime":830.4,"body":"and these biases can affect"},{"startTime":830.4,"endTime":833.37,"body":"how they view witnesses' evidence,"},{"startTime":833.37,"endTime":836.97,"body":"or how they view the merits of a case."},{"startTime":836.97,"endTime":841.97,"body":"Now, my colleague, Keir"},{"startTime":836.97,"endTime":841.97,"body":"Monteith, King's Council,"},{"startTime":842.73,"endTime":846.78,"body":"recently co-authored a"},{"startTime":842.73,"endTime":846.78,"body":"report with academics"},{"startTime":846.78,"endTime":849.75,"body":"at the University of Manchester,"},{"startTime":849.75,"endTime":852.45,"body":"Racial Bias and the Bench,"},{"startTime":852.45,"endTime":855.51,"body":"which surveyed a large"},{"startTime":852.45,"endTime":855.51,"body":"group of legal professionals"},{"startTime":855.51,"endTime":860.313,"body":"about their experiences"},{"startTime":855.51,"endTime":860.313,"body":"of judicial racial bias."},{"startTime":861.24,"endTime":862.95,"body":"Many respondents gave accounts"},{"startTime":862.95,"endTime":865.68,"body":"of bias effecting"},{"startTime":862.95,"endTime":865.68,"body":"judicial decision-making."},{"startTime":865.68,"endTime":867.663,"body":"For instance, one respondent said,"},{"startTime":869.257,"endTime":873.87,"body":"\"I represented a client who"},{"startTime":869.257,"endTime":873.87,"body":"was a Black British youth."},{"startTime":873.87,"endTime":875.433,"body":"No previous convictions."},{"startTime":876.27,"endTime":878.85,"body":"The trial was in the magistrate's court."},{"startTime":878.85,"endTime":882.9,"body":"The bench were two"},{"startTime":878.85,"endTime":882.9,"body":"posh, old, white ladies."},{"startTime":882.9,"endTime":885.24,"body":"I knew from the way"},{"startTime":882.9,"endTime":885.24,"body":"that they looked at him,"},{"startTime":885.24,"endTime":887.91,"body":"and they looked at the case,"},{"startTime":887.91,"endTime":892.26,"body":"as though it was all an unpleasant smell,"},{"startTime":892.26,"endTime":894.63,"body":"that they would convict"},{"startTime":892.26,"endTime":894.63,"body":"him from the start."},{"startTime":894.63,"endTime":898.02,"body":"We ran a good defense"},{"startTime":894.63,"endTime":898.02,"body":"providing as much information"},{"startTime":898.02,"endTime":900.0,"body":"and evidence as we could."},{"startTime":900.0,"endTime":903.87,"body":"The prosecution barely"},{"startTime":900.0,"endTime":903.87,"body":"challenged our position,"},{"startTime":903.87,"endTime":908.87,"body":"and the bench convicted"},{"startTime":903.87,"endTime":908.87,"body":"on obscure reasoning."},{"startTime":908.91,"endTime":913.853,"body":"It seemed to me to be a decision"},{"startTime":908.91,"endTime":913.853,"body":"infused with racial bias.\""},{"startTime":915.54,"endTime":920.04,"body":"Another said, \"It's difficult"},{"startTime":915.54,"endTime":920.04,"body":"to set out specific instances"},{"startTime":920.04,"endTime":921.93,"body":"as they're quite common."},{"startTime":921.93,"endTime":924.69,"body":"A significant minority of tribunal judges"},{"startTime":924.69,"endTime":927.15,"body":"treat the evidence of"},{"startTime":924.69,"endTime":927.15,"body":"appellants and witnesses"},{"startTime":927.15,"endTime":929.22,"body":"from other cultures, countries,"},{"startTime":929.22,"endTime":931.737,"body":"and backgrounds with skepticism.\""},{"startTime":933.15,"endTime":938.15,"body":"A related problem is an"},{"startTime":933.15,"endTime":938.15,"body":"unjustified judicial faith"},{"startTime":938.19,"endTime":939.66,"body":"in the police."},{"startTime":939.66,"endTime":942.427,"body":"For example, one respondent said,"},{"startTime":942.427,"endTime":944.82,"body":"\"While practicing in"},{"startTime":942.427,"endTime":944.82,"body":"the magistrate's court,"},{"startTime":944.82,"endTime":948.81,"body":"I never once saw a tribunal"},{"startTime":944.82,"endTime":948.81,"body":"seriously entertained the idea"},{"startTime":948.81,"endTime":952.83,"body":"that the police might have"},{"startTime":948.81,"endTime":952.83,"body":"been acting in a racist manner,"},{"startTime":952.83,"endTime":955.77,"body":"or even that racialized defendants"},{"startTime":955.77,"endTime":958.38,"body":"had perceived the police"},{"startTime":955.77,"endTime":958.38,"body":"to have been acting"},{"startTime":958.38,"endTime":960.543,"body":"in a racist way towards them,"},{"startTime":961.53,"endTime":965.4,"body":"which is often a critical"},{"startTime":961.53,"endTime":965.4,"body":"part of the defense"},{"startTime":965.4,"endTime":967.257,"body":"or the defendant's case.\""},{"startTime":969.57,"endTime":972.96,"body":"These examples, a court of my"},{"startTime":969.57,"endTime":972.96,"body":"own experience as a lawyer,"},{"startTime":972.96,"endTime":975.66,"body":"race can often have a big impact"},{"startTime":975.66,"endTime":980.19,"body":"on how judges treat a client or witnesses,"},{"startTime":980.19,"endTime":983.43,"body":"and how seriously they take the client's"},{"startTime":983.43,"endTime":985.65,"body":"or witnesses' evidence."},{"startTime":985.65,"endTime":990.65,"body":"So can other factors such"},{"startTime":985.65,"endTime":990.65,"body":"as your client's class,"},{"startTime":990.99,"endTime":995.583,"body":"their accent, how they"},{"startTime":990.99,"endTime":995.583,"body":"dress or behave in court."},{"startTime":996.51,"endTime":1001.51,"body":"Like all humans, judges"},{"startTime":996.51,"endTime":1001.51,"body":"take cognitive shortcuts"},{"startTime":1002.66,"endTime":1004.073,"body":"when making decisions,"},{"startTime":1005.06,"endTime":1008.06,"body":"and often those cognitive shortcuts"},{"startTime":1008.06,"endTime":1013.06,"body":"reflect race, class, and cultural bias."},{"startTime":1013.22,"endTime":1016.64,"body":"So judges are not"},{"startTime":1013.22,"endTime":1016.64,"body":"necessarily well-equipped"},{"startTime":1016.64,"endTime":1019.4,"body":"to make findings of fact,"},{"startTime":1019.4,"endTime":1024.4,"body":"they aren't experts, and they"},{"startTime":1019.4,"endTime":1024.4,"body":"often base their decisions"},{"startTime":1024.71,"endTime":1026.813,"body":"on false assumptions."},{"startTime":1029.57,"endTime":1033.35,"body":"Second, another major role"},{"startTime":1029.57,"endTime":1033.35,"body":"of judges in our system"},{"startTime":1033.35,"endTime":1036.053,"body":"is to make moral judgments."},{"startTime":1036.95,"endTime":1038.54,"body":"The most obvious example of this is"},{"startTime":1038.54,"endTime":1043.54,"body":"when a judge passes sentence"},{"startTime":1038.54,"endTime":1043.54,"body":"for a criminal offense."},{"startTime":1044.21,"endTime":1045.32,"body":"In English legal system,"},{"startTime":1045.32,"endTime":1049.04,"body":"although considerations of"},{"startTime":1045.32,"endTime":1049.04,"body":"prevention and deterrents"},{"startTime":1049.04,"endTime":1051.08,"body":"are taken into account,"},{"startTime":1051.08,"endTime":1053.213,"body":"the core of sentencing this punitive."},{"startTime":1054.32,"endTime":1057.2,"body":"Our sentencing policy owes far more"},{"startTime":1057.2,"endTime":1060.32,"body":"to the concept of moral desert"},{"startTime":1060.32,"endTime":1064.07,"body":"than it does to utilitarian ethics."},{"startTime":1064.07,"endTime":1067.07,"body":"Judges take into account"},{"startTime":1064.07,"endTime":1067.07,"body":"the perceived culpability"},{"startTime":1067.07,"endTime":1069.32,"body":"of the defendant to given you any factors"},{"startTime":1069.32,"endTime":1072.983,"body":"that aggravate or mitigate"},{"startTime":1069.32,"endTime":1072.983,"body":"their moral wrongdoing."},{"startTime":1074.12,"endTime":1078.2,"body":"Even if the defendant"},{"startTime":1074.12,"endTime":1078.2,"body":"poses no risk to the public"},{"startTime":1078.2,"endTime":1080.57,"body":"or no risk of re-offending,"},{"startTime":1080.57,"endTime":1085.55,"body":"this doesn't preclude"},{"startTime":1080.57,"endTime":1085.55,"body":"them being imprisoned,"},{"startTime":1085.55,"endTime":1089.183,"body":"if the judge considers the"},{"startTime":1085.55,"endTime":1089.183,"body":"crime sufficiently serious,"},{"startTime":1090.47,"endTime":1095.47,"body":"and sometimes judges use"},{"startTime":1090.47,"endTime":1095.47,"body":"moralizing language from the bench"},{"startTime":1095.6,"endTime":1098.6,"body":"condemning a defendant using terms"},{"startTime":1098.6,"endTime":1103.25,"body":"such as \"wicked\" or \"depraved.\""},{"startTime":1103.25,"endTime":1107.36,"body":"In effect, the judge is"},{"startTime":1103.25,"endTime":1107.36,"body":"empowered to make moral judgments"},{"startTime":1107.36,"endTime":1111.74,"body":"on behalf of society to decide"},{"startTime":1107.36,"endTime":1111.74,"body":"what another human being"},{"startTime":1111.74,"endTime":1115.373,"body":"has done wrong and what they deserve."},{"startTime":1116.6,"endTime":1120.26,"body":"While the discretion of"},{"startTime":1116.6,"endTime":1120.26,"body":"judges has been fettered"},{"startTime":1120.26,"endTime":1122.84,"body":"in recent years by sentencing guidelines"},{"startTime":1122.84,"endTime":1127.28,"body":"which seek to achieve some"},{"startTime":1122.84,"endTime":1127.28,"body":"consistency in sentencing,"},{"startTime":1127.28,"endTime":1131.18,"body":"these guidelines typically"},{"startTime":1127.28,"endTime":1131.18,"body":"reinforce an approach"},{"startTime":1131.18,"endTime":1135.443,"body":"in which culpability is at"},{"startTime":1131.18,"endTime":1135.443,"body":"the heart of sentencing."},{"startTime":1137.24,"endTime":1142.24,"body":"We might well ask why we"},{"startTime":1137.24,"endTime":1142.24,"body":"entrust judges with this power."},{"startTime":1142.49,"endTime":1146.81,"body":"After all, an education in"},{"startTime":1142.49,"endTime":1146.81,"body":"law doesn't imbue a person"},{"startTime":1146.81,"endTime":1149.24,"body":"with the wisdom of Solomon,"},{"startTime":1149.24,"endTime":1152.12,"body":"and judges are disproportionately"},{"startTime":1152.12,"endTime":1155.27,"body":"drawn from privileged backgrounds,"},{"startTime":1155.27,"endTime":1159.3,"body":"and are much less likely to"},{"startTime":1155.27,"endTime":1159.3,"body":"have experienced hardship"},{"startTime":1160.7,"endTime":1165.7,"body":"than are the defendants on"},{"startTime":1160.7,"endTime":1165.7,"body":"whom they sit in judgment."},{"startTime":1168.35,"endTime":1170.81,"body":"From a moral perspective, for example,"},{"startTime":1170.81,"endTime":1175.81,"body":"we might ask what a judge"},{"startTime":1170.81,"endTime":1175.81,"body":"earning a six-figure-salary"},{"startTime":1178.67,"endTime":1181.85,"body":"has to sit in judgment"},{"startTime":1181.85,"endTime":1184.853,"body":"on a homeless person for stealing bread."},{"startTime":1185.93,"endTime":1189.803,"body":"Or to take a real example"},{"startTime":1185.93,"endTime":1189.803,"body":"that occurred in 2018,"},{"startTime":1190.82,"endTime":1194.87,"body":"we might ask how a judge"},{"startTime":1190.82,"endTime":1194.87,"body":"whose family members"},{"startTime":1194.87,"endTime":1198.83,"body":"had a financial interest"},{"startTime":1194.87,"endTime":1198.83,"body":"in the fracking industry"},{"startTime":1198.83,"endTime":1203.423,"body":"can send anti-fracking"},{"startTime":1198.83,"endTime":1203.423,"body":"protestors to prison."},{"startTime":1205.1,"endTime":1208.82,"body":"And again, we know that bias plays a role,"},{"startTime":1208.82,"endTime":1211.73,"body":"in numerous previous"},{"startTime":1208.82,"endTime":1211.73,"body":"lectures I've talked about"},{"startTime":1211.73,"endTime":1214.07,"body":"the Lanni review findings,"},{"startTime":1214.07,"endTime":1218.9,"body":"that there were large race"},{"startTime":1214.07,"endTime":1218.9,"body":"disparities in sentencing,"},{"startTime":1218.9,"endTime":1223.1,"body":"especially for drug offenses,"},{"startTime":1223.1,"endTime":1227.333,"body":"and that ain't an opinion that's counting."},{"startTime":1229.73,"endTime":1234.29,"body":"These experiences or the"},{"startTime":1229.73,"endTime":1234.29,"body":"experiences of the respondents"},{"startTime":1234.29,"endTime":1239.29,"body":"of the Monteith Survey, The"},{"startTime":1234.29,"endTime":1239.29,"body":"Manchester University Survey"},{"startTime":1239.57,"endTime":1241.34,"body":"were consistent with this."},{"startTime":1241.34,"endTime":1243.683,"body":"For example, one respondent said,"},{"startTime":1244.617,"endTime":1248.15,"body":"\"I've witnessed firsthand"},{"startTime":1244.617,"endTime":1248.15,"body":"sentencing disparity"},{"startTime":1248.15,"endTime":1250.37,"body":"between Black and white defendants."},{"startTime":1250.37,"endTime":1253.49,"body":"The Black defendant with the"},{"startTime":1250.37,"endTime":1253.49,"body":"least serious offense received"},{"startTime":1253.49,"endTime":1255.47,"body":"an immediate custodial sentence,"},{"startTime":1255.47,"endTime":1259.727,"body":"while the white defendant"},{"startTime":1255.47,"endTime":1259.727,"body":"received a fine, Ban E.\""},{"startTime":1260.75,"endTime":1263.18,"body":"I've personally represented"},{"startTime":1260.75,"endTime":1263.18,"body":"those defendants"},{"startTime":1263.18,"endTime":1266.51,"body":"one after the other in the same court,"},{"startTime":1266.51,"endTime":1269.063,"body":"before the same judge magistrate."},{"startTime":1270.89,"endTime":1273.327,"body":"So we might well ask,"},{"startTime":1273.327,"endTime":1276.8,"body":"\"Why do we entrust judges with the power"},{"startTime":1276.8,"endTime":1280.07,"body":"to issue collective moral condemnations"},{"startTime":1280.07,"endTime":1283.127,"body":"from the bench on behalf of society?\""},{"startTime":1286.4,"endTime":1291.4,"body":"Third and finally, judges"},{"startTime":1286.4,"endTime":1291.4,"body":"make political judgments."},{"startTime":1293.81,"endTime":1296.24,"body":"Judges, of course, are supposed to avoid"},{"startTime":1296.24,"endTime":1301.24,"body":"political partisanship, but"},{"startTime":1296.24,"endTime":1301.24,"body":"it's inevitable that sometimes"},{"startTime":1301.82,"endTime":1306.82,"body":"judges decide cases with"},{"startTime":1301.82,"endTime":1306.82,"body":"profound political implications."},{"startTime":1307.19,"endTime":1309.86,"body":"In the United States where"},{"startTime":1307.19,"endTime":1309.86,"body":"judges have brought powers"},{"startTime":1309.86,"endTime":1313.04,"body":"to strike down legislation"},{"startTime":1309.86,"endTime":1313.04,"body":"as unconstitutional,"},{"startTime":1313.04,"endTime":1316.94,"body":"this has been a topic of"},{"startTime":1313.04,"endTime":1316.94,"body":"debate for generations."},{"startTime":1316.94,"endTime":1320.78,"body":"Here in the UK, we have"},{"startTime":1316.94,"endTime":1320.78,"body":"no codified constitution,"},{"startTime":1320.78,"endTime":1322.76,"body":"and parliament is sovereign."},{"startTime":1322.76,"endTime":1325.73,"body":"The judiciary historically"},{"startTime":1322.76,"endTime":1325.73,"body":"posed less of a threat"},{"startTime":1325.73,"endTime":1327.65,"body":"to the power of politicians,"},{"startTime":1327.65,"endTime":1331.79,"body":"but since the pass of the"},{"startTime":1327.65,"endTime":1331.79,"body":"Human Rights Act 1998,"},{"startTime":1331.79,"endTime":1334.88,"body":"judicial decision-making has increasingly"},{"startTime":1334.88,"endTime":1337.283,"body":"provoked political controversy."},{"startTime":1338.69,"endTime":1340.43,"body":"When judges make decisions"},{"startTime":1340.43,"endTime":1343.91,"body":"which are politically controversial,"},{"startTime":1343.91,"endTime":1347.15,"body":"unthought the will of the executive,"},{"startTime":1347.15,"endTime":1350.843,"body":"it's often decried as \"judicial activism\""},{"startTime":1351.86,"endTime":1354.02,"body":"to a significant extent,"},{"startTime":1354.02,"endTime":1356.24,"body":"however, this is inherent"},{"startTime":1354.02,"endTime":1356.24,"body":"to the protection"},{"startTime":1356.24,"endTime":1358.67,"body":"of fundamental rights."},{"startTime":1358.67,"endTime":1361.7,"body":"Most human rights instruments"},{"startTime":1358.67,"endTime":1361.7,"body":"define their rights"},{"startTime":1361.7,"endTime":1364.28,"body":"in fairly broad terms,"},{"startTime":1364.28,"endTime":1366.68,"body":"the right to life, the right to liberty,"},{"startTime":1366.68,"endTime":1367.91,"body":"the right to a fair trial,"},{"startTime":1367.91,"endTime":1371.9,"body":"the right to private and"},{"startTime":1367.91,"endTime":1371.9,"body":"family life, and so on."},{"startTime":1371.9,"endTime":1374.3,"body":"The practical application of these rights"},{"startTime":1374.3,"endTime":1379.253,"body":"is inevitably left to"},{"startTime":1374.3,"endTime":1379.253,"body":"judicial interpretation."},{"startTime":1380.15,"endTime":1382.73,"body":"Judges have to make evaluative judgements"},{"startTime":1382.73,"endTime":1385.97,"body":"about how far a right extends,"},{"startTime":1385.97,"endTime":1389.513,"body":"and how it should be balanced"},{"startTime":1385.97,"endTime":1389.513,"body":"against other priorities."},{"startTime":1390.8,"endTime":1395.75,"body":"What's interesting about the"},{"startTime":1390.8,"endTime":1395.75,"body":"debate over judicial activism"},{"startTime":1395.75,"endTime":1400.61,"body":"is that its political"},{"startTime":1395.75,"endTime":1400.61,"body":"contours can change radically"},{"startTime":1400.61,"endTime":1405.02,"body":"over time depending on"},{"startTime":1400.61,"endTime":1405.02,"body":"the political orientation"},{"startTime":1405.02,"endTime":1407.81,"body":"of the government and the political tenor"},{"startTime":1407.81,"endTime":1410.9,"body":"of judicial decisions."},{"startTime":1410.9,"endTime":1415.19,"body":"Simply put, most people"},{"startTime":1410.9,"endTime":1415.19,"body":"like judicial activism"},{"startTime":1415.19,"endTime":1418.55,"body":"when it accords with"},{"startTime":1415.19,"endTime":1418.55,"body":"their own political views,"},{"startTime":1418.55,"endTime":1421.43,"body":"and dislike it when it does not."},{"startTime":1421.43,"endTime":1425.6,"body":"For example, in the Lochner era"},{"startTime":1425.6,"endTime":1428.27,"body":"in the early 20th century America,"},{"startTime":1428.27,"endTime":1431.72,"body":"when the Supreme Court effectively imposed"},{"startTime":1431.72,"endTime":1435.98,"body":"right-wing economic policies"},{"startTime":1431.72,"endTime":1435.98,"body":"on bi-judicial fiat,"},{"startTime":1435.98,"endTime":1439.4,"body":"Socialists were among"},{"startTime":1435.98,"endTime":1439.4,"body":"the strongest critics"},{"startTime":1439.4,"endTime":1444.4,"body":"of judicial activism, whereas"},{"startTime":1439.4,"endTime":1444.4,"body":"by the late 20th century,"},{"startTime":1445.1,"endTime":1448.4,"body":"it was the Conservatives"},{"startTime":1445.1,"endTime":1448.4,"body":"who were vocally criticizing"},{"startTime":1448.4,"endTime":1451.49,"body":"judicial activism being"},{"startTime":1448.4,"endTime":1451.49,"body":"agreed by decisions,"},{"startTime":1451.49,"endTime":1454.79,"body":"such as Roe versus Wade,"},{"startTime":1454.79,"endTime":1457.823,"body":"which recognized the"},{"startTime":1454.79,"endTime":1457.823,"body":"constitutional right to abortion."},{"startTime":1459.05,"endTime":1463.88,"body":"And today, as the US"},{"startTime":1459.05,"endTime":1463.88,"body":"Supreme Court has swung"},{"startTime":1463.88,"endTime":1466.49,"body":"decidedly to the right again,"},{"startTime":1466.49,"endTime":1470.36,"body":"we are once again seeing"},{"startTime":1466.49,"endTime":1470.36,"body":"criticisms of the judiciary"},{"startTime":1470.36,"endTime":1471.743,"body":"coming from the left."},{"startTime":1472.67,"endTime":1475.31,"body":"Similarly, here in the UK,"},{"startTime":1475.31,"endTime":1478.643,"body":"the debate has to be viewed"},{"startTime":1475.31,"endTime":1478.643,"body":"in its political context."},{"startTime":1479.54,"endTime":1482.09,"body":"Much of the hard-fought litigation"},{"startTime":1482.09,"endTime":1484.73,"body":"under our Human Rights"},{"startTime":1482.09,"endTime":1484.73,"body":"Act has been concerned"},{"startTime":1484.73,"endTime":1487.43,"body":"with protecting the rights"},{"startTime":1484.73,"endTime":1487.43,"body":"of marginalized groups,"},{"startTime":1487.43,"endTime":1489.86,"body":"such as immigrants, asylum seekers,"},{"startTime":1489.86,"endTime":1494.66,"body":"prisoners, benefit claimants,"},{"startTime":1489.86,"endTime":1494.66,"body":"and homeless people."},{"startTime":1494.66,"endTime":1497.39,"body":"Sometimes judicial decisions have expanded"},{"startTime":1497.39,"endTime":1501.05,"body":"the frontiers of human rights protection,"},{"startTime":1501.05,"endTime":1503.723,"body":"and thwarted government policy."},{"startTime":1504.71,"endTime":1506.96,"body":"One of the earliest and"},{"startTime":1504.71,"endTime":1506.96,"body":"most dramatic examples"},{"startTime":1506.96,"endTime":1511.52,"body":"was the 2004 case of A, in"},{"startTime":1506.96,"endTime":1511.52,"body":"which the House of Lords held"},{"startTime":1511.52,"endTime":1514.25,"body":"that the indefinite tension"},{"startTime":1514.25,"endTime":1517.19,"body":"of foreign national terror suspects"},{"startTime":1517.19,"endTime":1519.47,"body":"without trial at Belmarsh Prison"},{"startTime":1519.47,"endTime":1523.373,"body":"violated the European"},{"startTime":1519.47,"endTime":1523.373,"body":"Convention on Human Rights."},{"startTime":1524.33,"endTime":1526.19,"body":"Against this backdrop,"},{"startTime":1526.19,"endTime":1529.4,"body":"most criticisms of the Human Rights Act"},{"startTime":1529.4,"endTime":1531.833,"body":"tended to come from the political right."},{"startTime":1532.67,"endTime":1535.97,"body":"Some decisions attracted particular ire,"},{"startTime":1535.97,"endTime":1539.33,"body":"such as the European Courts"},{"startTime":1535.97,"endTime":1539.33,"body":"of human rights decision"},{"startTime":1539.33,"endTime":1540.62,"body":"in case of Hirst,"},{"startTime":1540.62,"endTime":1545.54,"body":"which held that the UK's"},{"startTime":1540.62,"endTime":1545.54,"body":"blanket ban on prisoner voting"},{"startTime":1545.54,"endTime":1548.153,"body":"violated the convention."},{"startTime":1550.25,"endTime":1554.36,"body":"The Hirst decision is virtually unique"},{"startTime":1554.36,"endTime":1558.05,"body":"in the annals of British"},{"startTime":1554.36,"endTime":1558.05,"body":"human rights litigation,"},{"startTime":1558.05,"endTime":1560.33,"body":"in that successive governments"},{"startTime":1560.33,"endTime":1563.96,"body":"have simply refused to act on it,"},{"startTime":1563.96,"endTime":1568.793,"body":"and prisoners continue to"},{"startTime":1563.96,"endTime":1568.793,"body":"be banned from voting today."},{"startTime":1569.66,"endTime":1573.44,"body":"But it's important to note"},{"startTime":1569.66,"endTime":1573.44,"body":"that if the political contours"},{"startTime":1573.44,"endTime":1578.44,"body":"of the UK changed, the"},{"startTime":1573.44,"endTime":1578.44,"body":"debate over judicial activism"},{"startTime":1579.17,"endTime":1581.09,"body":"would change too."},{"startTime":1581.09,"endTime":1584.33,"body":"For instance, if a Socialist government"},{"startTime":1584.33,"endTime":1586.64,"body":"came to power and"},{"startTime":1584.33,"endTime":1586.64,"body":"nationalized all the assets"},{"startTime":1586.64,"endTime":1589.19,"body":"of the rich without compensation,"},{"startTime":1589.19,"endTime":1592.88,"body":"we could expect the"},{"startTime":1589.19,"endTime":1592.88,"body":"aggrieved property owners"},{"startTime":1592.88,"endTime":1596.09,"body":"to challenge it on the Article"},{"startTime":1592.88,"endTime":1596.09,"body":"1 of the first protocol"},{"startTime":1596.09,"endTime":1597.92,"body":"of the European Convention."},{"startTime":1597.92,"endTime":1599.18,"body":"In those scenarios,"},{"startTime":1599.18,"endTime":1603.92,"body":"it would be likely that"},{"startTime":1599.18,"endTime":1603.92,"body":"to be the left decrying"},{"startTime":1603.92,"endTime":1607.283,"body":"judicial activism and"},{"startTime":1603.92,"endTime":1607.283,"body":"the right supporting it."},{"startTime":1609.23,"endTime":1611.21,"body":"It's also important to note"},{"startTime":1611.21,"endTime":1613.37,"body":"that the courts don't always protect"},{"startTime":1613.37,"endTime":1617.72,"body":"the rights of minorities against"},{"startTime":1613.37,"endTime":1617.72,"body":"an overbearing government."},{"startTime":1617.72,"endTime":1621.38,"body":"Sometimes they throw"},{"startTime":1617.72,"endTime":1621.38,"body":"minorities under the bus,"},{"startTime":1621.38,"endTime":1625.31,"body":"for example, in the 2005"},{"startTime":1621.38,"endTime":1625.31,"body":"House of Lord's decision"},{"startTime":1625.31,"endTime":1630.31,"body":"in the case of N, in which they"},{"startTime":1625.31,"endTime":1630.31,"body":"held that it did not breach"},{"startTime":1630.35,"endTime":1634.22,"body":"the European Convention to"},{"startTime":1630.35,"endTime":1634.22,"body":"remove a woman with AIDS"},{"startTime":1634.22,"endTime":1636.23,"body":"to a country where she would die"},{"startTime":1636.23,"endTime":1639.2,"body":"an early and painful death"},{"startTime":1639.2,"endTime":1644.2,"body":"from the lack of access"},{"startTime":1639.2,"endTime":1644.2,"body":"to lifesaving medication."},{"startTime":1645.38,"endTime":1647.36,"body":"The European Court of Human Rights"},{"startTime":1647.36,"endTime":1649.58,"body":"reached the same conclusion."},{"startTime":1649.58,"endTime":1654.14,"body":"This decision represented"},{"startTime":1649.58,"endTime":1654.14,"body":"the law for over a decade,"},{"startTime":1654.14,"endTime":1657.44,"body":"until the European Court"},{"startTime":1654.14,"endTime":1657.44,"body":"revisited its approach"},{"startTime":1657.44,"endTime":1661.64,"body":"in the 2016 case of Papa Shively,"},{"startTime":1661.64,"endTime":1664.04,"body":"and our Supreme Court decided"},{"startTime":1664.04,"endTime":1668.633,"body":"in the 2020 case of AM Zimbabwe,"},{"startTime":1670.94,"endTime":1674.693,"body":"to follow Papa Shively and"},{"startTime":1670.94,"endTime":1674.693,"body":"overrule the case of N."},{"startTime":1676.46,"endTime":1681.46,"body":"Critics of judicial activism"},{"startTime":1676.46,"endTime":1681.46,"body":"often use the word \"unelected\""},{"startTime":1682.73,"endTime":1685.55,"body":"when describing the role of judges,"},{"startTime":1685.55,"endTime":1688.1,"body":"so in the next section of the lecture,"},{"startTime":1688.1,"endTime":1691.76,"body":"we're going to take a look"},{"startTime":1688.1,"endTime":1691.76,"body":"at how judges are appointed,"},{"startTime":1691.76,"endTime":1694.16,"body":"to whom they are accountable,"},{"startTime":1694.16,"endTime":1698.063,"body":"and how representative they"},{"startTime":1694.16,"endTime":1698.063,"body":"are of the general public."},{"startTime":1699.77,"endTime":1701.963,"body":"So how are judges appointed?"},{"startTime":1703.13,"endTime":1706.46,"body":"How judges should be appointed is often"},{"startTime":1706.46,"endTime":1709.16,"body":"one of the most contentious issues"},{"startTime":1709.16,"endTime":1712.91,"body":"in constitutional law around the world."},{"startTime":1712.91,"endTime":1717.11,"body":"In some countries, the"},{"startTime":1712.91,"endTime":1717.11,"body":"executive and or the legislature"},{"startTime":1717.11,"endTime":1720.02,"body":"play decisive role in appointing judges."},{"startTime":1720.02,"endTime":1722.87,"body":"For example, as most people know,"},{"startTime":1722.87,"endTime":1725.54,"body":"federal judges in the United States"},{"startTime":1725.54,"endTime":1728.49,"body":"are nominated by the President"},{"startTime":1725.54,"endTime":1728.49,"body":"and confirmed by the Senate."},{"startTime":1730.19,"endTime":1734.72,"body":"An even more striking feature"},{"startTime":1730.19,"endTime":1734.72,"body":"of the American system is that"},{"startTime":1734.72,"endTime":1738.71,"body":"many state court judges are elected."},{"startTime":1738.71,"endTime":1740.09,"body":"Conversely, in other countries,"},{"startTime":1740.09,"endTime":1743.24,"body":"judges are nominated by"},{"startTime":1740.09,"endTime":1743.24,"body":"an independent commission,"},{"startTime":1743.24,"endTime":1747.11,"body":"which is designed to be"},{"startTime":1743.24,"endTime":1747.11,"body":"insulated from politics."},{"startTime":1747.11,"endTime":1748.76,"body":"For example, many Commonwealth countries"},{"startTime":1748.76,"endTime":1749.87,"body":"have a constitutional body"},{"startTime":1749.87,"endTime":1754.16,"body":"known as the Judicial Service Commission,"},{"startTime":1754.16,"endTime":1756.44,"body":"which advises the head of state"},{"startTime":1756.44,"endTime":1758.93,"body":"on the appointment of judges."},{"startTime":1758.93,"endTime":1762.6,"body":"The composition of the"},{"startTime":1758.93,"endTime":1762.6,"body":"judicial service commission"},{"startTime":1763.55,"endTime":1766.13,"body":"varies considerably"},{"startTime":1763.55,"endTime":1766.13,"body":"from country to country,"},{"startTime":1766.13,"endTime":1768.527,"body":"but they usually include some judges,"},{"startTime":1768.527,"endTime":1770.813,"body":"and some non-judicial members."},{"startTime":1772.25,"endTime":1775.25,"body":"Some include members of the legislature,"},{"startTime":1775.25,"endTime":1776.843,"body":"while others do not."},{"startTime":1778.7,"endTime":1782.12,"body":"At the most extreme end,"},{"startTime":1778.7,"endTime":1782.12,"body":"there are some countries,"},{"startTime":1782.12,"endTime":1784.46,"body":"where the appointment process"},{"startTime":1784.46,"endTime":1788.21,"body":"is wholly controlled by existing judges."},{"startTime":1788.21,"endTime":1793.21,"body":"For example, this is the case"},{"startTime":1788.21,"endTime":1793.21,"body":"in which the Collegium system"},{"startTime":1794.0,"endTime":1798.713,"body":"for appointment to the"},{"startTime":1794.0,"endTime":1798.713,"body":"Supreme Court in India."},{"startTime":1799.79,"endTime":1804.17,"body":"Each of these options has"},{"startTime":1799.79,"endTime":1804.17,"body":"advantages and disadvantages,"},{"startTime":1804.17,"endTime":1809.12,"body":"where judges are appointed"},{"startTime":1804.17,"endTime":1809.12,"body":"by elected politicians."},{"startTime":1809.12,"endTime":1812.33,"body":"This ensures some level"},{"startTime":1809.12,"endTime":1812.33,"body":"of democratic involvement"},{"startTime":1812.33,"endTime":1813.503,"body":"in the process,"},{"startTime":1814.46,"endTime":1816.41,"body":"but it also increases the likelihood"},{"startTime":1816.41,"endTime":1820.07,"body":"of party political considerations,"},{"startTime":1820.07,"endTime":1825.07,"body":"or play a role, and decisions ..."},{"startTime":1825.71,"endTime":1829.85,"body":"Play a role in the"},{"startTime":1825.71,"endTime":1829.85,"body":"appointment of the judiciary,"},{"startTime":1829.85,"endTime":1832.55,"body":"and that some judicial"},{"startTime":1829.85,"endTime":1832.55,"body":"decisions will be affected"},{"startTime":1832.55,"endTime":1835.43,"body":"by political considerations."},{"startTime":1835.43,"endTime":1837.83,"body":"Similarly, where judges are elected,"},{"startTime":1837.83,"endTime":1840.95,"body":"they are democratically accountable,"},{"startTime":1840.95,"endTime":1844.07,"body":"but this also increases the"},{"startTime":1840.95,"endTime":1844.07,"body":"risk that they will seek"},{"startTime":1844.07,"endTime":1849.07,"body":"to make popular decisions"},{"startTime":1844.07,"endTime":1849.07,"body":"instead of correct ones,"},{"startTime":1849.68,"endTime":1853.46,"body":"and that they will be beholden"},{"startTime":1849.68,"endTime":1853.46,"body":"to the private interests"},{"startTime":1853.46,"endTime":1858.46,"body":"of whoever or whatever bank"},{"startTime":1853.46,"endTime":1858.46,"body":"roll their election campaign."},{"startTime":1859.73,"endTime":1860.563,"body":"On the other hand,"},{"startTime":1860.563,"endTime":1862.64,"body":"where the appointment"},{"startTime":1860.563,"endTime":1862.64,"body":"process is independent"},{"startTime":1862.64,"endTime":1865.46,"body":"and dominated by existing judges,"},{"startTime":1865.46,"endTime":1868.67,"body":"this reduces partisan influence,"},{"startTime":1868.67,"endTime":1871.79,"body":"but such systems can also be criticized"},{"startTime":1871.79,"endTime":1874.19,"body":"on the ground that it makes the judiciary"},{"startTime":1874.19,"endTime":1876.89,"body":"into a self-selecting elite,"},{"startTime":1876.89,"endTime":1880.133,"body":"which is not democratically"},{"startTime":1876.89,"endTime":1880.133,"body":"accountable to the public."},{"startTime":1881.15,"endTime":1885.113,"body":"So how does it work here"},{"startTime":1881.15,"endTime":1885.113,"body":"in England and Wales?"},{"startTime":1887.09,"endTime":1889.04,"body":"In England and Wales,"},{"startTime":1889.04,"endTime":1893.57,"body":"there were radical changes"},{"startTime":1889.04,"endTime":1893.57,"body":"to the judicial appointments"},{"startTime":1893.57,"endTime":1895.04,"body":"in the early 2000s."},{"startTime":1895.04,"endTime":1900.04,"body":"Before then, the key figure"},{"startTime":1895.04,"endTime":1900.04,"body":"in the judicial appointments"},{"startTime":1902.06,"endTime":1903.443,"body":"was the Lord Chancellor."},{"startTime":1904.28,"endTime":1907.82,"body":"The Lord Chancellor occupied"},{"startTime":1904.28,"endTime":1907.82,"body":"an anonymous position,"},{"startTime":1907.82,"endTime":1909.71,"body":"he was simultaneously"},{"startTime":1909.71,"endTime":1913.58,"body":"a politically-appointed cabinet Minister,"},{"startTime":1913.58,"endTime":1915.203,"body":"the Head of the judiciary,"},{"startTime":1916.19,"endTime":1919.07,"body":"and the Speaker of the House of Lords."},{"startTime":1919.07,"endTime":1921.65,"body":"Most judges were appointed by the Queen"},{"startTime":1921.65,"endTime":1925.61,"body":"on the advice of the Prime Minister,"},{"startTime":1925.61,"endTime":1927.44,"body":"but the Prime Minister, in turn,"},{"startTime":1927.44,"endTime":1929.933,"body":"would consult with the Lord Chancellor."},{"startTime":1931.04,"endTime":1934.85,"body":"There was no formal recruitment process."},{"startTime":1934.85,"endTime":1939.713,"body":"The process was often described"},{"startTime":1934.85,"endTime":1939.713,"body":"as a tap on the shoulder."},{"startTime":1941.03,"endTime":1945.083,"body":"Although this might sound a"},{"startTime":1941.03,"endTime":1945.083,"body":"politically partisan process,"},{"startTime":1945.083,"endTime":1948.26,"body":"this was mitigated to"},{"startTime":1945.083,"endTime":1948.26,"body":"some degree by the fact"},{"startTime":1948.26,"endTime":1951.41,"body":"that the Lord Chancellor would"},{"startTime":1948.26,"endTime":1951.41,"body":"always consult senior judges"},{"startTime":1951.41,"endTime":1956.18,"body":"on judicial appointments,"},{"startTime":1951.41,"endTime":1956.18,"body":"and that the judges' views"},{"startTime":1956.18,"endTime":1959.27,"body":"generally carried significant weight."},{"startTime":1959.27,"endTime":1961.673,"body":"But this came with problems of its own."},{"startTime":1962.87,"endTime":1966.353,"body":"Most judges were drawn"},{"startTime":1962.87,"endTime":1966.353,"body":"from wealthy backgrounds,"},{"startTime":1968.78,"endTime":1973.193,"body":"had attended fee-paying"},{"startTime":1968.78,"endTime":1973.193,"body":"schools, were white, and male."},{"startTime":1974.33,"endTime":1977.93,"body":"There was inevitably a"},{"startTime":1974.33,"endTime":1977.93,"body":"temptation to appoint judges"},{"startTime":1977.93,"endTime":1982.133,"body":"that fit the same mold as existing judges."},{"startTime":1983.48,"endTime":1986.42,"body":"How far did political considerations"},{"startTime":1986.42,"endTime":1989.57,"body":"influence judicial"},{"startTime":1986.42,"endTime":1989.57,"body":"appointments in practice?"},{"startTime":1989.57,"endTime":1991.94,"body":"Well, in Victorian and Edwardian times,"},{"startTime":1991.94,"endTime":1994.82,"body":"the answer was quite a lot."},{"startTime":1994.82,"endTime":1996.74,"body":"For example, Lord Halsbury,"},{"startTime":1996.74,"endTime":1998.51,"body":"who was the Conservative Lord Chancellor"},{"startTime":1998.51,"endTime":2003.51,"body":"for three periods between 1885 to 1905,"},{"startTime":2003.64,"endTime":2006.94,"body":"was well-known for appointing"},{"startTime":2003.64,"endTime":2006.94,"body":"Conservative politicians,"},{"startTime":2006.94,"endTime":2011.14,"body":"and even his own relatives"},{"startTime":2006.94,"endTime":2011.14,"body":"to judicial roles,"},{"startTime":2011.14,"endTime":2012.763,"body":"regardless of merit."},{"startTime":2013.66,"endTime":2018.19,"body":"In a 2009 lecture, Lord"},{"startTime":2013.66,"endTime":2018.19,"body":"Justice Tolson, as he then was"},{"startTime":2018.19,"endTime":2020.92,"body":"said that \"Before World War I,"},{"startTime":2020.92,"endTime":2023.23,"body":"judicial appointments"},{"startTime":2020.92,"endTime":2023.23,"body":"were highly political,"},{"startTime":2023.23,"endTime":2026.14,"body":"and frequently made with scant regard"},{"startTime":2026.14,"endTime":2028.69,"body":"for whether the person showed any sign"},{"startTime":2028.69,"endTime":2031.057,"body":"of having judicial qualities.\""},{"startTime":2032.83,"endTime":2037.06,"body":"Although he acknowledges that"},{"startTime":2032.83,"endTime":2037.06,"body":"there was a marked improvement"},{"startTime":2037.06,"endTime":2039.84,"body":"between World Wars I and II."},{"startTime":2039.84,"endTime":2042.7,"body":"At the same time, there"},{"startTime":2039.84,"endTime":2042.7,"body":"was also a convention"},{"startTime":2042.7,"endTime":2045.49,"body":"that the Attorney General"},{"startTime":2042.7,"endTime":2045.49,"body":"of the government,"},{"startTime":2045.49,"endTime":2047.26,"body":"that's the government's"},{"startTime":2045.49,"endTime":2047.26,"body":"politically appointed"},{"startTime":2047.26,"endTime":2048.61,"body":"Chief Law Officer,"},{"startTime":2048.61,"endTime":2052.03,"body":"would be offered the Office"},{"startTime":2048.61,"endTime":2052.03,"body":"of Lord Chief Justice"},{"startTime":2052.03,"endTime":2054.13,"body":"when it fell vacant."},{"startTime":2054.13,"endTime":2056.147,"body":"Lord Tolson highlights that"},{"startTime":2056.147,"endTime":2059.86,"body":"\"This convention led to the"},{"startTime":2056.147,"endTime":2059.86,"body":"appointment of a Lord Hewitt,"},{"startTime":2059.86,"endTime":2061.15,"body":"who was the Lord Chief Justice"},{"startTime":2061.15,"endTime":2066.15,"body":"between 1922 and 1940\" and who was"},{"startTime":2067.247,"endTime":2070.42,"body":"\"widely regarded as the"},{"startTime":2067.247,"endTime":2070.42,"body":"worst Lord Chief Justice"},{"startTime":2070.42,"endTime":2071.887,"body":"of the 20th century.\""},{"startTime":2073.54,"endTime":2075.88,"body":"His poor performance led to"},{"startTime":2073.54,"endTime":2075.88,"body":"the end of the Convention,"},{"startTime":2075.88,"endTime":2079.877,"body":"more positively, however,"},{"startTime":2075.88,"endTime":2079.877,"body":"Lord Tolson says that"},{"startTime":2079.877,"endTime":2082.42,"body":"\"By the second half the 20th century,"},{"startTime":2082.42,"endTime":2084.94,"body":"there were few instances"},{"startTime":2082.42,"endTime":2084.94,"body":"where political factors"},{"startTime":2084.94,"endTime":2087.88,"body":"were suspected of influence"},{"startTime":2084.94,"endTime":2087.88,"body":"in judicial appointments,"},{"startTime":2087.88,"endTime":2089.71,"body":"the judicial appointments process,"},{"startTime":2089.71,"endTime":2092.62,"body":"and certainly none in the last 30 years."},{"startTime":2092.62,"endTime":2095.8,"body":"In recent decades, all Lord"},{"startTime":2092.62,"endTime":2095.8,"body":"Chancellors were scrupulous"},{"startTime":2095.8,"endTime":2098.17,"body":"in seeing that the judicial"},{"startTime":2095.8,"endTime":2098.17,"body":"appointment process"},{"startTime":2098.17,"endTime":2100.687,"body":"was strictly apolitical.\""},{"startTime":2102.76,"endTime":2106.33,"body":"Chris Hanretty of"},{"startTime":2102.76,"endTime":2106.33,"body":"University of East Anglia"},{"startTime":2106.33,"endTime":2109.09,"body":"has carried out a statistical analysis"},{"startTime":2109.09,"endTime":2111.55,"body":"of all judicial appointments in England"},{"startTime":2111.55,"endTime":2115.39,"body":"between 1880 and 2005."},{"startTime":2115.39,"endTime":2119.41,"body":"Among the factors he looked"},{"startTime":2115.39,"endTime":2119.41,"body":"at, was political affiliation,"},{"startTime":2119.41,"endTime":2121.39,"body":"and he found that there was no advantage"},{"startTime":2121.39,"endTime":2123.58,"body":"to having the same political affiliation"},{"startTime":2123.58,"endTime":2126.25,"body":"as the incumbent Lord Chancellor,"},{"startTime":2126.25,"endTime":2130.27,"body":"but that judges were more"},{"startTime":2126.25,"endTime":2130.27,"body":"likely to be promoted"},{"startTime":2130.27,"endTime":2132.43,"body":"if they had been appointed"},{"startTime":2132.43,"endTime":2136.42,"body":"by the government of the same party."},{"startTime":2136.42,"endTime":2138.58,"body":"So by the end of the 20th century,"},{"startTime":2138.58,"endTime":2141.58,"body":"there was no longer a strong perception"},{"startTime":2141.58,"endTime":2143.98,"body":"of political partisanship influencing"},{"startTime":2143.98,"endTime":2146.62,"body":"the judicial appointment process."},{"startTime":2146.62,"endTime":2150.97,"body":"However, there was still"},{"startTime":2146.62,"endTime":2150.97,"body":"undeniable difficulties"},{"startTime":2150.97,"endTime":2152.62,"body":"with the process."},{"startTime":2152.62,"endTime":2156.97,"body":"The tap on the shoulder"},{"startTime":2152.62,"endTime":2156.97,"body":"system was the opposite"},{"startTime":2156.97,"endTime":2160.84,"body":"of an open and transparent"},{"startTime":2156.97,"endTime":2160.84,"body":"recruitment process,"},{"startTime":2160.84,"endTime":2163.03,"body":"as Lord Tolson says."},{"startTime":2163.03,"endTime":2167.2,"body":"There was a double complaint,"},{"startTime":2163.03,"endTime":2167.2,"body":"that the selection was made"},{"startTime":2167.2,"endTime":2171.76,"body":"in the image of the selectors,"},{"startTime":2167.2,"endTime":2171.76,"body":"resulting in an over-narrow"},{"startTime":2171.76,"endTime":2174.28,"body":"judiciary and that the poll process"},{"startTime":2174.28,"endTime":2176.713,"body":"was hidden from the public's view."},{"startTime":2177.97,"endTime":2182.41,"body":"Under New Labor, there"},{"startTime":2177.97,"endTime":2182.41,"body":"was a significant change."},{"startTime":2182.41,"endTime":2187.09,"body":"By 2001, the Commission for Judicial"},{"startTime":2187.09,"endTime":2189.07,"body":"Appointments was created,"},{"startTime":2189.07,"endTime":2192.13,"body":"although this was an oversight body,"},{"startTime":2192.13,"endTime":2195.37,"body":"and was not directly responsible"},{"startTime":2192.13,"endTime":2195.37,"body":"for recruiting judges."},{"startTime":2195.37,"endTime":2199.33,"body":"However, the Constitutional"},{"startTime":2195.37,"endTime":2199.33,"body":"Reform Act of 2005"},{"startTime":2199.33,"endTime":2201.67,"body":"brought about a sea change."},{"startTime":2201.67,"endTime":2204.04,"body":"The Judicials' Appointment Commission,"},{"startTime":2204.04,"endTime":2207.43,"body":"an independent statutory"},{"startTime":2204.04,"endTime":2207.43,"body":"body was established."},{"startTime":2207.43,"endTime":2208.63,"body":"For the first time,"},{"startTime":2208.63,"endTime":2211.72,"body":"judges were selected on the"},{"startTime":2208.63,"endTime":2211.72,"body":"basis of open competition,"},{"startTime":2211.72,"endTime":2214.57,"body":"and had to apply for their jobs."},{"startTime":2214.57,"endTime":2217.75,"body":"The principle that judges"},{"startTime":2214.57,"endTime":2217.75,"body":"should be selected on merit"},{"startTime":2217.75,"endTime":2219.973,"body":"was enshrined in statute."},{"startTime":2220.93,"endTime":2225.25,"body":"The Commission consists of a"},{"startTime":2220.93,"endTime":2225.25,"body":"mixture of judicial members,"},{"startTime":2225.25,"endTime":2229.39,"body":"lawyers, and lay members,"},{"startTime":2229.39,"endTime":2233.38,"body":"so it's not completely controlled"},{"startTime":2229.39,"endTime":2233.38,"body":"by the existing judiciary,"},{"startTime":2233.38,"endTime":2236.35,"body":"but they play a major role in it."},{"startTime":2236.35,"endTime":2239.98,"body":"The 2005 Act also made"},{"startTime":2236.35,"endTime":2239.98,"body":"a lot of other changes"},{"startTime":2239.98,"endTime":2241.6,"body":"to our judicial system."},{"startTime":2241.6,"endTime":2244.54,"body":"The role of the Lord Chancellor"},{"startTime":2241.6,"endTime":2244.54,"body":"was radically reformed,"},{"startTime":2244.54,"endTime":2246.19,"body":"so that Lord Chancellor was no longer"},{"startTime":2246.19,"endTime":2247.72,"body":"the Head of the Judiciary,"},{"startTime":2247.72,"endTime":2249.55,"body":"or Speaker of the House of Lords."},{"startTime":2249.55,"endTime":2251.143,"body":"Today, the Lord Chancellor,"},{"startTime":2253.63,"endTime":2257.29,"body":"who is always also the"},{"startTime":2253.63,"endTime":2257.29,"body":"Secretary of State for Justice,"},{"startTime":2257.29,"endTime":2260.44,"body":"is normally an MP, rather than a PM,"},{"startTime":2260.44,"endTime":2262.423,"body":"and does not even have to be a lawyer."},{"startTime":2263.35,"endTime":2265.3,"body":"And the act replaced"},{"startTime":2263.35,"endTime":2265.3,"body":"the Appellate Committee"},{"startTime":2265.3,"endTime":2269.623,"body":"of the House of Lords with"},{"startTime":2265.3,"endTime":2269.623,"body":"the UK's Supreme Court."},{"startTime":2271.24,"endTime":2274.78,"body":"The Lord Chancellor now"},{"startTime":2271.24,"endTime":2274.78,"body":"plays a much less role"},{"startTime":2274.78,"endTime":2277.27,"body":"in judicial appointments than previously,"},{"startTime":2277.27,"endTime":2280.15,"body":"judges of lower courts and"},{"startTime":2277.27,"endTime":2280.15,"body":"tribunals are appointed"},{"startTime":2280.15,"endTime":2283.9,"body":"on the recommendation of the"},{"startTime":2280.15,"endTime":2283.9,"body":"commission, and until 2014,"},{"startTime":2283.9,"endTime":2286.72,"body":"the Lord Chancellor was"},{"startTime":2283.9,"endTime":2286.72,"body":"still formally the appointing"},{"startTime":2286.72,"endTime":2289.72,"body":"authority for judges of"},{"startTime":2286.72,"endTime":2289.72,"body":"lower courts and tribunals,"},{"startTime":2289.72,"endTime":2293.41,"body":"although in practice"},{"startTime":2289.72,"endTime":2293.41,"body":"they simply rubber stamp"},{"startTime":2293.41,"endTime":2295.723,"body":"the candidate selected by the commission."},{"startTime":2297.31,"endTime":2302.31,"body":"The Crime and Courts Act of"},{"startTime":2297.31,"endTime":2302.31,"body":"2013 removed this residual role,"},{"startTime":2302.8,"endTime":2303.997,"body":"so that the Lord Chief Justice,"},{"startTime":2303.997,"endTime":2306.7,"body":"and the senior president of the tribunals"},{"startTime":2306.7,"endTime":2309.85,"body":"are now the appointing authorities"},{"startTime":2309.85,"endTime":2312.763,"body":"for the lower courts and"},{"startTime":2309.85,"endTime":2312.763,"body":"tribunals, respectively."},{"startTime":2314.08,"endTime":2318.07,"body":"Although the Lord Chancellor"},{"startTime":2314.08,"endTime":2318.07,"body":"continues to be involved"},{"startTime":2318.07,"endTime":2319.87,"body":"in the appointment of high judiciary,"},{"startTime":2319.87,"endTime":2322.51,"body":"their discretion is very limited."},{"startTime":2322.51,"endTime":2324.61,"body":"High Court judges are"},{"startTime":2322.51,"endTime":2324.61,"body":"appointed on recommendation"},{"startTime":2324.61,"endTime":2327.34,"body":"of the Commission, the most senior judges,"},{"startTime":2327.34,"endTime":2329.08,"body":"including the Lord Chief Justice,"},{"startTime":2329.08,"endTime":2330.4,"body":"and the Master of the roles,"},{"startTime":2330.4,"endTime":2334.3,"body":"the heads of the division, and"},{"startTime":2330.4,"endTime":2334.3,"body":"the Lord Justices of Appeal"},{"startTime":2334.3,"endTime":2337.42,"body":"are appointed on the recommendation"},{"startTime":2337.42,"endTime":2340.93,"body":"of selection panels"},{"startTime":2337.42,"endTime":2340.93,"body":"appointed by the commission."},{"startTime":2340.93,"endTime":2343.3,"body":"The Lord Chancellor does"},{"startTime":2340.93,"endTime":2343.3,"body":"have power to reject"},{"startTime":2343.3,"endTime":2344.86,"body":"the Commission's recommendations"},{"startTime":2344.86,"endTime":2347.44,"body":"or request a reconsideration,"},{"startTime":2347.44,"endTime":2350.14,"body":"but these options can"},{"startTime":2347.44,"endTime":2350.14,"body":"only be exercised twice"},{"startTime":2350.14,"endTime":2352.333,"body":"in relation to a given vacancy."},{"startTime":2353.38,"endTime":2356.68,"body":"This removal of ministerial"},{"startTime":2353.38,"endTime":2356.68,"body":"influence from the process"},{"startTime":2356.68,"endTime":2358.513,"body":"has not been uncontroversial."},{"startTime":2360.109,"endTime":2363.19,"body":"In 2009, Jack Straw,"},{"startTime":2363.19,"endTime":2365.14,"body":"then Lord Chancellor"},{"startTime":2363.19,"endTime":2365.14,"body":"in the Labor Government"},{"startTime":2365.14,"endTime":2368.86,"body":"requested reconsideration of"},{"startTime":2365.14,"endTime":2368.86,"body":"the Commission's recommendation"},{"startTime":2368.86,"endTime":2371.35,"body":"to appoint Sir Nicholas Wall"},{"startTime":2371.35,"endTime":2373.81,"body":"as President of the Family Division."},{"startTime":2373.81,"endTime":2375.88,"body":"Sir Nicholas had previously been critical"},{"startTime":2375.88,"endTime":2380.17,"body":"of the government's reform"},{"startTime":2375.88,"endTime":2380.17,"body":"to family justice system."},{"startTime":2380.17,"endTime":2382.09,"body":"When the Commission"},{"startTime":2380.17,"endTime":2382.09,"body":"recommended Sir Nicholas"},{"startTime":2382.09,"endTime":2384.19,"body":"for a second time,"},{"startTime":2384.19,"endTime":2387.88,"body":"Straw had little choice but to acquiesce."},{"startTime":2387.88,"endTime":2391.75,"body":"In analyzing this case,"},{"startTime":2387.88,"endTime":2391.75,"body":"Professor Graham Gee"},{"startTime":2391.75,"endTime":2395.14,"body":"argue that the Lord Chancellor should have"},{"startTime":2395.14,"endTime":2396.79,"body":"a greater role in appointments."},{"startTime":2396.79,"endTime":2399.97,"body":"He says \"Ministerial"},{"startTime":2396.79,"endTime":2399.97,"body":"involvement can inject"},{"startTime":2399.97,"endTime":2402.49,"body":"a substantial degree of"},{"startTime":2399.97,"endTime":2402.49,"body":"democratic legitimacy,"},{"startTime":2402.49,"endTime":2405.91,"body":"and accountability into"},{"startTime":2402.49,"endTime":2405.91,"body":"the selection regime,"},{"startTime":2405.91,"endTime":2408.46,"body":"and by extension into the judiciary"},{"startTime":2408.46,"endTime":2410.167,"body":"as an institution of government.\""},{"startTime":2411.7,"endTime":2414.82,"body":"He argues that instead of having to accept"},{"startTime":2414.82,"endTime":2416.95,"body":"or reject a single name,"},{"startTime":2416.95,"endTime":2419.83,"body":"the Lord Chancellor"},{"startTime":2416.95,"endTime":2419.83,"body":"should be able to choose"},{"startTime":2419.83,"endTime":2423.16,"body":"from a short list between"},{"startTime":2419.83,"endTime":2423.16,"body":"three to five names"},{"startTime":2423.16,"endTime":2425.08,"body":"prepared by the Commission."},{"startTime":2425.08,"endTime":2428.14,"body":"We can see, then, that"},{"startTime":2425.08,"endTime":2428.14,"body":"the question of how judges"},{"startTime":2428.14,"endTime":2432.25,"body":"should be appointed is"},{"startTime":2428.14,"endTime":2432.25,"body":"highly controversial."},{"startTime":2432.25,"endTime":2434.11,"body":"If the selection process is dominated"},{"startTime":2434.11,"endTime":2435.97,"body":"by the existing judiciary,"},{"startTime":2435.97,"endTime":2439.12,"body":"this may produce a more"},{"startTime":2435.97,"endTime":2439.12,"body":"independent judiciary,"},{"startTime":2439.12,"endTime":2441.82,"body":"but some would argue that"},{"startTime":2439.12,"endTime":2441.82,"body":"it produces a judiciary"},{"startTime":2441.82,"endTime":2444.76,"body":"wholly unaccountable to the public."},{"startTime":2444.76,"endTime":2446.77,"body":"Conversely, if the selection process"},{"startTime":2446.77,"endTime":2450.07,"body":"has a significant degree"},{"startTime":2446.77,"endTime":2450.07,"body":"of political involvement,"},{"startTime":2450.07,"endTime":2453.46,"body":"this might be said to make"},{"startTime":2450.07,"endTime":2453.46,"body":"the process more democratic,"},{"startTime":2453.46,"endTime":2457.213,"body":"but it might also make"},{"startTime":2453.46,"endTime":2457.213,"body":"the process more partisan,"},{"startTime":2458.71,"endTime":2462.973,"body":"and reduce its independence"},{"startTime":2458.71,"endTime":2462.973,"body":"from the government of the day."},{"startTime":2466.0,"endTime":2469.063,"body":"To whom are judges accountable?"},{"startTime":2470.47,"endTime":2472.69,"body":"Now we've seen how judges are appointed,"},{"startTime":2472.69,"endTime":2473.83,"body":"and why it's controversial,"},{"startTime":2473.83,"endTime":2477.25,"body":"we now need to look at why and how judges"},{"startTime":2477.25,"endTime":2480.82,"body":"are held accountable in England and Wales."},{"startTime":2480.82,"endTime":2485.02,"body":"Judges are supposed to"},{"startTime":2480.82,"endTime":2485.02,"body":"enjoy judicial independence,"},{"startTime":2485.02,"endTime":2488.89,"body":"and a major component of that independence"},{"startTime":2488.89,"endTime":2490.963,"body":"is that it's difficult to remove them."},{"startTime":2492.22,"endTime":2495.37,"body":"For the senior judiciary at"},{"startTime":2492.22,"endTime":2495.37,"body":"a High Court level and above,"},{"startTime":2495.37,"endTime":2498.43,"body":"it's virtually impossible"},{"startTime":2495.37,"endTime":2498.43,"body":"to remove a judge"},{"startTime":2498.43,"endTime":2500.95,"body":"from office against their will."},{"startTime":2500.95,"endTime":2503.26,"body":"They can only be removed by the King,"},{"startTime":2503.26,"endTime":2507.79,"body":"or an address by both"},{"startTime":2503.26,"endTime":2507.79,"body":"Houses of Parliament."},{"startTime":2507.79,"endTime":2510.88,"body":"No English or Welsh judge"},{"startTime":2510.88,"endTime":2515.08,"body":"has ever been removed by this process."},{"startTime":2515.08,"endTime":2520.08,"body":"The only time it was ever used"},{"startTime":2515.08,"endTime":2520.08,"body":"was when Sir Jonah Barrington"},{"startTime":2520.21,"endTime":2524.02,"body":"and Judge of the Irish"},{"startTime":2520.21,"endTime":2524.02,"body":"High Court Admiralty"},{"startTime":2524.02,"endTime":2527.533,"body":"was removed in 1830 for corruption."},{"startTime":2528.94,"endTime":2533.23,"body":"This does not mean that they"},{"startTime":2528.94,"endTime":2533.23,"body":"are completely unaccountable."},{"startTime":2533.23,"endTime":2537.49,"body":"A judge who loses the"},{"startTime":2533.23,"endTime":2537.49,"body":"confidence of their colleagues"},{"startTime":2537.49,"endTime":2539.17,"body":"may be pressured to resign."},{"startTime":2539.17,"endTime":2544.17,"body":"For example, in 1998, Mr."},{"startTime":2539.17,"endTime":2544.17,"body":"Justice Jeremiah Harmon"},{"startTime":2545.59,"endTime":2548.14,"body":"was harshly criticized"},{"startTime":2545.59,"endTime":2548.14,"body":"by the Court of Appeal"},{"startTime":2548.14,"endTime":2549.67,"body":"for failing to deliver judgment"},{"startTime":2549.67,"endTime":2554.11,"body":"in a civil case for 20 months."},{"startTime":2554.11,"endTime":2558.22,"body":"Harmon was already a"},{"startTime":2554.11,"endTime":2558.22,"body":"controversial character,"},{"startTime":2558.22,"endTime":2562.51,"body":"who was frequently accused"},{"startTime":2558.22,"endTime":2562.51,"body":"of rudeness and discourtesy"},{"startTime":2562.51,"endTime":2566.2,"body":"to barristers who appeared"},{"startTime":2562.51,"endTime":2566.2,"body":"before him, particularly women,"},{"startTime":2566.2,"endTime":2571.2,"body":"and was also criticized for"},{"startTime":2566.2,"endTime":2571.2,"body":"allegedly kicking a taxi driver"},{"startTime":2573.01,"endTime":2576.52,"body":"in 1992 under the mistaken apprehension"},{"startTime":2576.52,"endTime":2578.773,"body":"that he was a press photographer."},{"startTime":2580.24,"endTime":2583.183,"body":"After being criticized"},{"startTime":2580.24,"endTime":2583.183,"body":"by the Court of Appeal,"},{"startTime":2584.14,"endTime":2589.03,"body":"Harmon resigned, but he"},{"startTime":2584.14,"endTime":2589.03,"body":"had refused to resign,"},{"startTime":2589.03,"endTime":2592.03,"body":"forgive me, but had he refused to resign,"},{"startTime":2592.03,"endTime":2593.38,"body":"it would've been very difficult"},{"startTime":2593.38,"endTime":2595.72,"body":"for his colleagues to get rid of him."},{"startTime":2595.72,"endTime":2597.25,"body":"On the other hand,"},{"startTime":2597.25,"endTime":2599.8,"body":"judges below the level of"},{"startTime":2597.25,"endTime":2599.8,"body":"High Court can be removed"},{"startTime":2599.8,"endTime":2601.96,"body":"by the Lord Chancellor"},{"startTime":2599.8,"endTime":2601.96,"body":"with the concurrence"},{"startTime":2601.96,"endTime":2604.24,"body":"of the Lord Chief Justice."},{"startTime":2604.24,"endTime":2606.34,"body":"There was also power to"},{"startTime":2604.24,"endTime":2606.34,"body":"suspend them from office,"},{"startTime":2606.34,"endTime":2610.573,"body":"so they have significantly"},{"startTime":2606.34,"endTime":2610.573,"body":"less security of tenure."},{"startTime":2611.59,"endTime":2613.24,"body":"Like judicial appointments,"},{"startTime":2613.24,"endTime":2615.58,"body":"judicial tenure and accountability"},{"startTime":2615.58,"endTime":2620.32,"body":"is an intensely controversial subject."},{"startTime":2620.32,"endTime":2623.2,"body":"Traditionally in liberal democracies,"},{"startTime":2623.2,"endTime":2625.27,"body":"security of tenure for"},{"startTime":2623.2,"endTime":2625.27,"body":"judges has been viewed"},{"startTime":2625.27,"endTime":2629.56,"body":"as an important safeguard"},{"startTime":2625.27,"endTime":2629.56,"body":"against political interference,"},{"startTime":2629.56,"endTime":2631.42,"body":"with their decision in fact,"},{"startTime":2631.42,"endTime":2634.48,"body":"total insecurity of"},{"startTime":2631.42,"endTime":2634.48,"body":"tenure is likely to breach"},{"startTime":2634.48,"endTime":2635.92,"body":"the requirement of Article 6"},{"startTime":2635.92,"endTime":2637.96,"body":"of the European Convention"},{"startTime":2635.92,"endTime":2637.96,"body":"of Human Rights,"},{"startTime":2637.96,"endTime":2639.73,"body":"that cases be tried"},{"startTime":2639.73,"endTime":2644.26,"body":"by an independent and impartial tribunal."},{"startTime":2644.26,"endTime":2646.18,"body":"On the other hand,"},{"startTime":2646.18,"endTime":2649.36,"body":"a critic of the judiciary might well ask"},{"startTime":2649.36,"endTime":2652.87,"body":"whether the senior judiciary"},{"startTime":2649.36,"endTime":2652.87,"body":"given their virtual absolute"},{"startTime":2652.87,"endTime":2657.87,"body":"security of tenure are accountable"},{"startTime":2652.87,"endTime":2657.87,"body":"to anyone but themselves."},{"startTime":2658.12,"endTime":2660.94,"body":"That said, security of tenure"},{"startTime":2660.94,"endTime":2664.15,"body":"doesn't mean judges can"},{"startTime":2660.94,"endTime":2664.15,"body":"do whatever they like,"},{"startTime":2664.15,"endTime":2666.28,"body":"judicial conduct complaints are dealt with"},{"startTime":2666.28,"endTime":2670.57,"body":"by the Judicial Conduct"},{"startTime":2666.28,"endTime":2670.57,"body":"Investigations Office,"},{"startTime":2670.57,"endTime":2674.23,"body":"and in fact, there are times that the JCIO"},{"startTime":2674.23,"endTime":2676.03,"body":"has been accused of overreach."},{"startTime":2676.03,"endTime":2678.67,"body":"For example, Peter Herbert,"},{"startTime":2678.67,"endTime":2682.03,"body":"a well-known Black lawyer who"},{"startTime":2678.67,"endTime":2682.03,"body":"sat as a part-time recorder"},{"startTime":2682.03,"endTime":2686.17,"body":"and tribunal judge had a"},{"startTime":2682.03,"endTime":2686.17,"body":"complaint of misconduct"},{"startTime":2686.17,"endTime":2688.81,"body":"made against him in relation"},{"startTime":2686.17,"endTime":2688.81,"body":"to his comments at a rally"},{"startTime":2689.714,"endTime":2690.964,"body":"in April, 2015."},{"startTime":2692.128,"endTime":2695.763,"body":"At the rally, Herbert"},{"startTime":2692.128,"endTime":2695.763,"body":"spoke out against racism"},{"startTime":2696.67,"endTime":2698.38,"body":"in the judiciary."},{"startTime":2698.38,"endTime":2699.213,"body":"Yeah, you heard me right."},{"startTime":2699.213,"endTime":2702.853,"body":"He spoke out against"},{"startTime":2699.213,"endTime":2702.853,"body":"racism in the judiciary."},{"startTime":2704.29,"endTime":2707.89,"body":"Eventually in 2017, the JCIO panel"},{"startTime":2707.89,"endTime":2711.28,"body":"held that Herbert's speech was misconduct,"},{"startTime":2711.28,"endTime":2714.4,"body":"and was likely to"},{"startTime":2711.28,"endTime":2714.4,"body":"undermine public confidence"},{"startTime":2714.4,"endTime":2716.5,"body":"in the judiciary."},{"startTime":2716.5,"endTime":2720.49,"body":"The panel held that he should"},{"startTime":2716.5,"endTime":2720.49,"body":"be given formal advice."},{"startTime":2720.49,"endTime":2724.69,"body":"The panel also held that he"},{"startTime":2720.49,"endTime":2724.69,"body":"should receive an apology"},{"startTime":2724.69,"endTime":2728.02,"body":"for the fact that pressure"},{"startTime":2724.69,"endTime":2728.02,"body":"had been put on him"},{"startTime":2728.02,"endTime":2731.14,"body":"to refrain voluntarily"},{"startTime":2728.02,"endTime":2731.14,"body":"from sitting as a judge,"},{"startTime":2731.14,"endTime":2732.883,"body":"which should not have happened."},{"startTime":2735.31,"endTime":2738.46,"body":"Herbert later brought a"},{"startTime":2735.31,"endTime":2738.46,"body":"race discrimination claim"},{"startTime":2738.46,"endTime":2741.34,"body":"in the Employment Tribunal"},{"startTime":2738.46,"endTime":2741.34,"body":"against the Lord Chancellor,"},{"startTime":2741.34,"endTime":2743.02,"body":"and the Lord Chief Justice,"},{"startTime":2743.02,"endTime":2748.02,"body":"which in 2021 was settled without"},{"startTime":2743.02,"endTime":2748.02,"body":"an admission of liability."},{"startTime":2751.24,"endTime":2754.48,"body":"That brings us onto"},{"startTime":2751.24,"endTime":2754.48,"body":"another important question."},{"startTime":2754.48,"endTime":2759.48,"body":"How representative is"},{"startTime":2754.48,"endTime":2759.48,"body":"the judiciary of society?"},{"startTime":2761.89,"endTime":2764.5,"body":"Traditionally, as I've said,"},{"startTime":2764.5,"endTime":2767.56,"body":"the English and Welsh"},{"startTime":2764.5,"endTime":2767.56,"body":"judiciary has been dominated"},{"startTime":2767.56,"endTime":2772.56,"body":"by white men who attend"},{"startTime":2767.56,"endTime":2772.56,"body":"fee-paying in schools in Oxbridge."},{"startTime":2772.75,"endTime":2776.323,"body":"This has been a subject of much"},{"startTime":2772.75,"endTime":2776.323,"body":"discussion in recent years."},{"startTime":2777.37,"endTime":2780.28,"body":"I've covered judicial diversity"},{"startTime":2780.28,"endTime":2782.44,"body":"in many of my previous lectures,"},{"startTime":2782.44,"endTime":2784.993,"body":"so I'm only going to touch"},{"startTime":2782.44,"endTime":2784.993,"body":"upon it briefly here."},{"startTime":2786.34,"endTime":2790.24,"body":"In England and Wales,"},{"startTime":2786.34,"endTime":2790.24,"body":"people minoritized ethnic"},{"startTime":2790.24,"endTime":2794.443,"body":"constitute 10% of all judges in 2022,"},{"startTime":2795.88,"endTime":2800.17,"body":"which was three percentage"},{"startTime":2795.88,"endTime":2800.17,"body":"points higher than in 2014."},{"startTime":2801.79,"endTime":2806.35,"body":"However, this representation"},{"startTime":2801.79,"endTime":2806.35,"body":"was not evenly distributed"},{"startTime":2806.35,"endTime":2808.36,"body":"across the judiciary."},{"startTime":2808.36,"endTime":2813.283,"body":"In the senior judiciary at"},{"startTime":2808.36,"endTime":2813.283,"body":"High Court level and above,"},{"startTime":2814.45,"endTime":2819.45,"body":"only 5% of judges belong to"},{"startTime":2814.45,"endTime":2819.45,"body":"minoritized ethnic groups."},{"startTime":2820.54,"endTime":2823.99,"body":"Conversely, 12% of tribunal judges"},{"startTime":2823.99,"endTime":2827.53,"body":"belong to minoritized ethnic groups."},{"startTime":2827.53,"endTime":2831.28,"body":"For comparison, minoritized ethnic people"},{"startTime":2831.28,"endTime":2836.28,"body":"constitute 16% of barristers"},{"startTime":2831.28,"endTime":2836.28,"body":"and 18% of solicitors,"},{"startTime":2838.57,"endTime":2842.65,"body":"though minoritized ethnic"},{"startTime":2838.57,"endTime":2842.65,"body":"groups representation"},{"startTime":2842.65,"endTime":2847.65,"body":"fell increasingly with"},{"startTime":2842.65,"endTime":2847.65,"body":"experience and seniority."},{"startTime":2847.87,"endTime":2852.87,"body":"Women make up 35% of all court judges,"},{"startTime":2853.06,"endTime":2856.693,"body":"and 52% of all tribunal judges."},{"startTime":2858.22,"endTime":2861.04,"body":"Based on these statistics, you might think"},{"startTime":2861.04,"endTime":2863.92,"body":"that judicial diversity in the"},{"startTime":2861.04,"endTime":2863.92,"body":"lower levels of the judiciary"},{"startTime":2863.92,"endTime":2865.87,"body":"isn't too bad,"},{"startTime":2865.87,"endTime":2869.41,"body":"but the statistics also"},{"startTime":2865.87,"endTime":2869.41,"body":"show a huge disparity"},{"startTime":2869.41,"endTime":2871.9,"body":"in the appointment process."},{"startTime":2871.9,"endTime":2876.9,"body":"In 2021, 2022, ethnic minority candidates"},{"startTime":2879.04,"endTime":2884.04,"body":"accounted for 23% of all"},{"startTime":2879.04,"endTime":2884.04,"body":"applications for judicial posts,"},{"startTime":2886.48,"endTime":2891.043,"body":"but only 11% of those were"},{"startTime":2886.48,"endTime":2891.043,"body":"recommended for appointment."},{"startTime":2892.48,"endTime":2895.543,"body":"And these statistics don't"},{"startTime":2892.48,"endTime":2895.543,"body":"tell the whole story."},{"startTime":2896.71,"endTime":2898.57,"body":"We don't have detailed statistics"},{"startTime":2898.57,"endTime":2901.69,"body":"about social and economic background"},{"startTime":2901.69,"endTime":2903.67,"body":"of current judges for instance,"},{"startTime":2903.67,"endTime":2906.55,"body":"while the 2022 statistics"},{"startTime":2903.67,"endTime":2906.55,"body":"contain a breakdown"},{"startTime":2906.55,"endTime":2909.25,"body":"of how many of those"},{"startTime":2906.55,"endTime":2909.25,"body":"recommended for appointment"},{"startTime":2909.25,"endTime":2913.39,"body":"in 2021, 2022 attended a state school,"},{"startTime":2913.39,"endTime":2916.54,"body":"and were the first in their"},{"startTime":2913.39,"endTime":2916.54,"body":"family to attend university,"},{"startTime":2916.54,"endTime":2920.74,"body":"they do not include this"},{"startTime":2916.54,"endTime":2920.74,"body":"information in respect of judges"},{"startTime":2920.74,"endTime":2922.663,"body":"currently in post."},{"startTime":2924.01,"endTime":2925.303,"body":"This is very important."},{"startTime":2926.83,"endTime":2930.23,"body":"A Black man from a wealthy"},{"startTime":2926.83,"endTime":2930.23,"body":"background who went to Eaton"},{"startTime":2931.09,"endTime":2934.96,"body":"won't have the same life"},{"startTime":2931.09,"endTime":2934.96,"body":"experiences as a Black man"},{"startTime":2934.96,"endTime":2936.79,"body":"who grew up on a council estate,"},{"startTime":2936.79,"endTime":2938.323,"body":"and attended the state school."},{"startTime":2939.37,"endTime":2942.16,"body":"Another important consideration is"},{"startTime":2942.16,"endTime":2944.92,"body":"that isn't reflected in these statistics"},{"startTime":2944.92,"endTime":2948.34,"body":"is that the professional"},{"startTime":2944.92,"endTime":2948.34,"body":"experience of appointees,"},{"startTime":2948.34,"endTime":2951.19,"body":"and how this has shaped their attitudes."},{"startTime":2951.19,"endTime":2953.98,"body":"Although these statistics"},{"startTime":2951.19,"endTime":2953.98,"body":"tell us how many solicitors"},{"startTime":2953.98,"endTime":2955.63,"body":"and barristers are appointed,"},{"startTime":2955.63,"endTime":2959.08,"body":"they don't tell us what"},{"startTime":2955.63,"endTime":2959.08,"body":"kind of law they practice,"},{"startTime":2959.08,"endTime":2961.75,"body":"and on whose side."},{"startTime":2961.75,"endTime":2964.69,"body":"The outlook of a legal aid lawyer,"},{"startTime":2964.69,"endTime":2967.96,"body":"who is made a career of"},{"startTime":2964.69,"endTime":2967.96,"body":"representing the oppressed"},{"startTime":2967.96,"endTime":2971.47,"body":"is often very different from"},{"startTime":2967.96,"endTime":2971.47,"body":"that of a commercial lawyer,"},{"startTime":2971.47,"endTime":2975.25,"body":"who represents large"},{"startTime":2971.47,"endTime":2975.25,"body":"companies or treasury council,"},{"startTime":2975.25,"endTime":2977.71,"body":"who represents the government."},{"startTime":2977.71,"endTime":2982.55,"body":"My experience is that most"},{"startTime":2977.71,"endTime":2982.55,"body":"senior judicial appointments"},{"startTime":2983.92,"endTime":2987.343,"body":"are given to the latter group."},{"startTime":2991.63,"endTime":2994.6,"body":"High Court judges, High Court and above"},{"startTime":2994.6,"endTime":2998.17,"body":"disproportionately go"},{"startTime":2994.6,"endTime":2998.17,"body":"to these appointments,"},{"startTime":2998.17,"endTime":2999.97,"body":"disproportionately go to lawyers,"},{"startTime":2999.97,"endTime":3003.96,"body":"who have spent their careers"},{"startTime":2999.97,"endTime":3003.96,"body":"representing the powerful"},{"startTime":3003.96,"endTime":3006.75,"body":"rather than the powerless."},{"startTime":3006.75,"endTime":3010.62,"body":"And some other groups are"},{"startTime":3006.75,"endTime":3010.62,"body":"woefully underrepresented."},{"startTime":3010.62,"endTime":3013.44,"body":"For example, transgender people"},{"startTime":3013.44,"endTime":3016.44,"body":"whose lives are profoundly"},{"startTime":3013.44,"endTime":3016.44,"body":"impacted by litigation"},{"startTime":3016.44,"endTime":3020.22,"body":"amidst the current climate"},{"startTime":3016.44,"endTime":3020.22,"body":"of anti-trans hostility,"},{"startTime":3020.22,"endTime":3023.583,"body":"have little representation"},{"startTime":3020.22,"endTime":3023.583,"body":"in the judiciary."},{"startTime":3024.96,"endTime":3028.56,"body":"So we don't have a judiciary"},{"startTime":3024.96,"endTime":3028.56,"body":"that's representative"},{"startTime":3028.56,"endTime":3031.94,"body":"of the public, and we've looked at many"},{"startTime":3031.94,"endTime":3036.94,"body":"of the common criticisms"},{"startTime":3031.94,"endTime":3036.94,"body":"of judges in this lecture,"},{"startTime":3037.71,"endTime":3041.34,"body":"as well as some of the"},{"startTime":3037.71,"endTime":3041.34,"body":"common counter-arguments."},{"startTime":3041.34,"endTime":3043.203,"body":"But what are the alternatives?"},{"startTime":3044.4,"endTime":3047.13,"body":"In the next and final"},{"startTime":3044.4,"endTime":3047.13,"body":"section of this lecture,"},{"startTime":3047.13,"endTime":3050.49,"body":"I want to look at whether"},{"startTime":3047.13,"endTime":3050.49,"body":"we truly need judges,"},{"startTime":3050.49,"endTime":3052.23,"body":"and what the alternatives are,"},{"startTime":3052.23,"endTime":3055.08,"body":"and what role judges"},{"startTime":3052.23,"endTime":3055.08,"body":"might play in a fairer,"},{"startTime":3055.08,"endTime":3057.57,"body":"and more equal society."},{"startTime":3057.57,"endTime":3060.18,"body":"So let's consider the alternatives."},{"startTime":3060.18,"endTime":3063.843,"body":"First of all, do we truly need judges?"},{"startTime":3065.46,"endTime":3068.55,"body":"I'm going to lay my"},{"startTime":3065.46,"endTime":3068.55,"body":"cards on the table here,"},{"startTime":3068.55,"endTime":3072.96,"body":"and I'm going to say the"},{"startTime":3068.55,"endTime":3072.96,"body":"answer is probably yes."},{"startTime":3072.96,"endTime":3075.72,"body":"It would be virtually impossible"},{"startTime":3072.96,"endTime":3075.72,"body":"to maintain the rule of law"},{"startTime":3075.72,"endTime":3079.71,"body":"and legal certainty without"},{"startTime":3075.72,"endTime":3079.71,"body":"an independent judiciary."},{"startTime":3079.71,"endTime":3084.15,"body":"And at its best, a judiciary"},{"startTime":3079.71,"endTime":3084.15,"body":"genuinely does serve"},{"startTime":3084.15,"endTime":3087.27,"body":"as an important check on"},{"startTime":3084.15,"endTime":3087.27,"body":"the power of the executive"},{"startTime":3087.27,"endTime":3091.89,"body":"and the legislature, and as a"},{"startTime":3087.27,"endTime":3091.89,"body":"safeguard for minority rights."},{"startTime":3091.89,"endTime":3096.89,"body":"But that does not mean that"},{"startTime":3091.89,"endTime":3096.89,"body":"the role of the judiciary"},{"startTime":3097.47,"endTime":3100.11,"body":"should remain the same as it is now."},{"startTime":3100.11,"endTime":3103.83,"body":"First of all, we need a"},{"startTime":3100.11,"endTime":3103.83,"body":"much more diverse judiciary,"},{"startTime":3103.83,"endTime":3106.32,"body":"and I just don't mean we need more women"},{"startTime":3106.32,"endTime":3109.74,"body":"and minoritized ethnic"},{"startTime":3106.32,"endTime":3109.74,"body":"groups in the judiciary."},{"startTime":3109.74,"endTime":3111.54,"body":"Although we do."},{"startTime":3111.54,"endTime":3114.27,"body":"We also need a judiciary that's drawn"},{"startTime":3114.27,"endTime":3118.35,"body":"from a much wider range of backgrounds."},{"startTime":3118.35,"endTime":3120.96,"body":"We need fewer judges from"},{"startTime":3118.35,"endTime":3120.96,"body":"wealthier backgrounds,"},{"startTime":3120.96,"endTime":3124.89,"body":"fewer judges who attend"},{"startTime":3120.96,"endTime":3124.89,"body":"fee-paying schools,"},{"startTime":3124.89,"endTime":3128.88,"body":"and more judges from"},{"startTime":3124.89,"endTime":3128.88,"body":"non-traditional backgrounds."},{"startTime":3128.88,"endTime":3131.88,"body":"We need judges who grew"},{"startTime":3128.88,"endTime":3131.88,"body":"up on council estates,"},{"startTime":3131.88,"endTime":3133.95,"body":"judges who are refugees, migrants."},{"startTime":3133.95,"endTime":3136.23,"body":"We need judges who are transgender,"},{"startTime":3136.23,"endTime":3140.16,"body":"judges who belong to"},{"startTime":3136.23,"endTime":3140.16,"body":"unrepresented racial groups."},{"startTime":3140.16,"endTime":3144.6,"body":"And we need judges with"},{"startTime":3140.16,"endTime":3144.6,"body":"a more diverse range"},{"startTime":3144.6,"endTime":3147.18,"body":"of professional experience."},{"startTime":3147.18,"endTime":3149.22,"body":"We need fewer commercial lawyers,"},{"startTime":3149.22,"endTime":3150.81,"body":"and treasury council on the bench."},{"startTime":3150.81,"endTime":3153.03,"body":"We need more legal aid lawyers."},{"startTime":3153.03,"endTime":3157.74,"body":"We need to abandon that lazy assumption"},{"startTime":3157.74,"endTime":3159.75,"body":"that the ideal High Court judge"},{"startTime":3159.75,"endTime":3162.9,"body":"is a barrister from a"},{"startTime":3159.75,"endTime":3162.9,"body":"prestigious London set"},{"startTime":3162.9,"endTime":3165.183,"body":"who got the first from Oxbridge."},{"startTime":3166.2,"endTime":3168.36,"body":"Second, unlike Professor Gee,"},{"startTime":3168.36,"endTime":3172.02,"body":"I'm not in favor expanding"},{"startTime":3168.36,"endTime":3172.02,"body":"ministerial influence"},{"startTime":3172.02,"endTime":3174.66,"body":"in the judicial appointment's process."},{"startTime":3174.66,"endTime":3178.14,"body":"However, I would be in favor"},{"startTime":3174.66,"endTime":3178.14,"body":"of reforming the statutory"},{"startTime":3178.14,"endTime":3180.78,"body":"framework for judicial appointments."},{"startTime":3180.78,"endTime":3185.31,"body":"One recommendation of the Keir Monteith"},{"startTime":3185.31,"endTime":3189.42,"body":"Manchester University"},{"startTime":3185.31,"endTime":3189.42,"body":"report was to overhaul"},{"startTime":3189.42,"endTime":3191.79,"body":"the process of judicial appointments."},{"startTime":3191.79,"endTime":3196.29,"body":"The authors agree with"},{"startTime":3191.79,"endTime":3196.29,"body":"the Law Society President"},{"startTime":3196.29,"endTime":3200.34,"body":"Stephanie Boyce, that the"},{"startTime":3196.29,"endTime":3200.34,"body":"statutory consultation process"},{"startTime":3200.34,"endTime":3203.16,"body":"in which existing judges"},{"startTime":3200.34,"endTime":3203.16,"body":"are asked for their views"},{"startTime":3203.16,"endTime":3205.86,"body":"on appointments should be abolished."},{"startTime":3205.86,"endTime":3208.83,"body":"I agree with that, and I"},{"startTime":3205.86,"endTime":3208.83,"body":"think we need to go further."},{"startTime":3208.83,"endTime":3213.09,"body":"I think diversity should"},{"startTime":3208.83,"endTime":3213.09,"body":"be explicitly enshrined"},{"startTime":3213.09,"endTime":3216.12,"body":"in statute as a goal of"},{"startTime":3213.09,"endTime":3216.12,"body":"judicial appointments,"},{"startTime":3216.12,"endTime":3218.76,"body":"alongside merit, and should be regarded"},{"startTime":3218.76,"endTime":3220.8,"body":"as equally important."},{"startTime":3220.8,"endTime":3223.14,"body":"In short, we need affirmative action"},{"startTime":3223.14,"endTime":3225.419,"body":"in judicial appointments process."},{"startTime":3225.419,"endTime":3228.18,"body":"This shouldn't just take into account"},{"startTime":3228.18,"endTime":3230.43,"body":"race and gender, but should"},{"startTime":3228.18,"endTime":3230.43,"body":"also take into account"},{"startTime":3230.43,"endTime":3234.42,"body":"characteristics such as"},{"startTime":3230.43,"endTime":3234.42,"body":"socioeconomic background,"},{"startTime":3234.42,"endTime":3236.49,"body":"refugee, migrant background,"},{"startTime":3236.49,"endTime":3240.333,"body":"sexual orientation,"},{"startTime":3236.49,"endTime":3240.333,"body":"and transgender status."},{"startTime":3241.2,"endTime":3245.1,"body":"Some people take strong"},{"startTime":3241.2,"endTime":3245.1,"body":"exception to this suggestion."},{"startTime":3245.1,"endTime":3249.18,"body":"They will argue that judicial"},{"startTime":3245.1,"endTime":3249.18,"body":"appointments should be based"},{"startTime":3249.18,"endTime":3251.4,"body":"purely on merit and should"},{"startTime":3249.18,"endTime":3251.4,"body":"not take into account"},{"startTime":3251.4,"endTime":3256.14,"body":"whether a person belongs to"},{"startTime":3251.4,"endTime":3256.14,"body":"a marginalized group or not."},{"startTime":3256.14,"endTime":3259.92,"body":"However, that approach ignores the reality"},{"startTime":3259.92,"endTime":3264.27,"body":"of institutional bias in our society,"},{"startTime":3264.27,"endTime":3266.22,"body":"when it comes to judicial appointment,"},{"startTime":3266.22,"endTime":3269.49,"body":"merit is a subjective concept,"},{"startTime":3269.49,"endTime":3274.08,"body":"and all too often in the"},{"startTime":3269.49,"endTime":3274.08,"body":"law and other professions,"},{"startTime":3274.08,"endTime":3278.16,"body":"selection panels will see"},{"startTime":3274.08,"endTime":3278.16,"body":"most merit in candidates"},{"startTime":3278.16,"endTime":3282.3,"body":"who fit an existing profile,"},{"startTime":3282.3,"endTime":3285.33,"body":"rather than candidates who are different."},{"startTime":3285.33,"endTime":3287.79,"body":"We need to take radical action"},{"startTime":3287.79,"endTime":3292.62,"body":"to change the default image"},{"startTime":3287.79,"endTime":3292.62,"body":"of what a judge looks like."},{"startTime":3292.62,"endTime":3295.897,"body":"As the Keir Monteith report says,"},{"startTime":3295.897,"endTime":3299.76,"body":"\"We need to create a critical"},{"startTime":3295.897,"endTime":3299.76,"body":"mass of diverse judges,"},{"startTime":3299.76,"endTime":3302.85,"body":"reflective of society rather than"},{"startTime":3302.85,"endTime":3306.18,"body":"occasional and isolated appointments.\""},{"startTime":3306.18,"endTime":3311.18,"body":"Third, we need diverse"},{"startTime":3306.18,"endTime":3311.18,"body":"legal and judicial training."},{"startTime":3313.62,"endTime":3315.81,"body":"The Manchester University report argues"},{"startTime":3315.81,"endTime":3320.1,"body":"for compulsory and ongoing,"},{"startTime":3315.81,"endTime":3320.1,"body":"high-quality racial bias"},{"startTime":3320.1,"endTime":3322.336,"body":"and anti-racist training, for example,"},{"startTime":3322.336,"endTime":3325.77,"body":"for all judges and key"},{"startTime":3322.336,"endTime":3325.77,"body":"workers in the justice system."},{"startTime":3325.77,"endTime":3327.42,"body":"I agree with that."},{"startTime":3327.42,"endTime":3330.72,"body":"I also think we need to incorporate"},{"startTime":3327.42,"endTime":3330.72,"body":"other kinds of training."},{"startTime":3330.72,"endTime":3334.05,"body":"For example, understanding"},{"startTime":3330.72,"endTime":3334.05,"body":"of mental health, trauma,"},{"startTime":3334.05,"endTime":3337.35,"body":"and the limitations of human"},{"startTime":3334.05,"endTime":3337.35,"body":"memory should be a core part"},{"startTime":3337.35,"endTime":3341.01,"body":"of every lawyer's and judge's skillset."},{"startTime":3341.01,"endTime":3343.32,"body":"We should stop teaching young barristers"},{"startTime":3343.32,"endTime":3346.71,"body":"that inconsistencies"},{"startTime":3343.32,"endTime":3346.71,"body":"in witnesses' accounts"},{"startTime":3346.71,"endTime":3348.78,"body":"are evidence of fabrication,"},{"startTime":3348.78,"endTime":3351.3,"body":"legal and advocacy"},{"startTime":3348.78,"endTime":3351.3,"body":"training needs to change"},{"startTime":3351.3,"endTime":3354.36,"body":"to reflect the current state"},{"startTime":3351.3,"endTime":3354.36,"body":"of scientific knowledge,"},{"startTime":3354.36,"endTime":3358.68,"body":"and how witnesses' testimony"},{"startTime":3354.36,"endTime":3358.68,"body":"actually functions."},{"startTime":3358.68,"endTime":3360.84,"body":"And it would be good if lawyers and judges"},{"startTime":3360.84,"endTime":3365.553,"body":"got some basic education in"},{"startTime":3360.84,"endTime":3365.553,"body":"statistic, scientific literacy,"},{"startTime":3367.05,"endTime":3371.76,"body":"and how to read and"},{"startTime":3367.05,"endTime":3371.76,"body":"understand scientific papers."},{"startTime":3371.76,"endTime":3373.8,"body":"Throughout their careers,"},{"startTime":3371.76,"endTime":3373.8,"body":"lawyers and judges"},{"startTime":3373.8,"endTime":3376.68,"body":"will need to deal with a"},{"startTime":3373.8,"endTime":3376.68,"body":"range of complex issues,"},{"startTime":3376.68,"endTime":3379.5,"body":"which are outside their"},{"startTime":3376.68,"endTime":3379.5,"body":"experience or knowledge,"},{"startTime":3379.5,"endTime":3384.5,"body":"yet legal education focuses"},{"startTime":3379.5,"endTime":3384.5,"body":"only on a narrow range of skills"},{"startTime":3384.57,"endTime":3386.61,"body":"and doesn't prepare"},{"startTime":3384.57,"endTime":3386.61,"body":"lawyers for the challenges"},{"startTime":3386.61,"endTime":3389.373,"body":"they will encounter both"},{"startTime":3386.61,"endTime":3389.373,"body":"as lawyers and judges."},{"startTime":3390.57,"endTime":3395.4,"body":"Fourth, we need to"},{"startTime":3390.57,"endTime":3395.4,"body":"reconsider some of the things"},{"startTime":3395.4,"endTime":3397.29,"body":"we expect judges to do."},{"startTime":3397.29,"endTime":3401.16,"body":"In particular, we need reform"},{"startTime":3397.29,"endTime":3401.16,"body":"on criminal sentencing,"},{"startTime":3401.16,"endTime":3405.51,"body":"and dissenter punishment in"},{"startTime":3401.16,"endTime":3405.51,"body":"the criminal justice system,"},{"startTime":3405.51,"endTime":3410.51,"body":"that will require many"},{"startTime":3405.51,"endTime":3410.51,"body":"changes in judicial culture,"},{"startTime":3410.972,"endTime":3415.323,"body":"and the perceived purpose of sentencing."},{"startTime":3418.83,"endTime":3420.908,"body":"So let me take some questions."},{"startTime":3420.908,"endTime":3423.908,"body":"(audience applause)"},{"startTime":3428.01,"endTime":3430.41,"body":"- Thank you, so I'm going to"},{"startTime":3428.01,"endTime":3430.41,"body":"take a couple of questions"},{"startTime":3430.41,"endTime":3432.81,"body":"from the enormous number of"},{"startTime":3430.41,"endTime":3432.81,"body":"people who are watching online,"},{"startTime":3432.81,"endTime":3435.81,"body":"and the first one's"},{"startTime":3432.81,"endTime":3435.81,"body":"quite an interesting one."},{"startTime":3435.81,"endTime":3438.57,"body":"You've argued that judges are privileged,"},{"startTime":3438.57,"endTime":3443.19,"body":"many have the wrong skills"},{"startTime":3438.57,"endTime":3443.19,"body":"and the quota system"},{"startTime":3443.19,"endTime":3446.373,"body":"would struggle with the lack"},{"startTime":3443.19,"endTime":3446.373,"body":"of diversity at the bar."},{"startTime":3447.33,"endTime":3450.12,"body":"So should we follow the German system,"},{"startTime":3450.12,"endTime":3454.74,"body":"and make being a judge a career"},{"startTime":3450.12,"endTime":3454.74,"body":"starting from graduation,"},{"startTime":3454.74,"endTime":3456.54,"body":"where you are properly trained"},{"startTime":3456.54,"endTime":3458.09,"body":"in the skills that you require?"},{"startTime":3458.94,"endTime":3462.03,"body":"- I think there's something"},{"startTime":3458.94,"endTime":3462.03,"body":"to be said for a combination."},{"startTime":3462.03,"endTime":3466.29,"body":"I do think there's some merit in judges"},{"startTime":3466.29,"endTime":3471.09,"body":"having some experience"},{"startTime":3466.29,"endTime":3471.09,"body":"of life as a lawyer."},{"startTime":3471.09,"endTime":3473.94,"body":"So I wouldn't throw that out entirely,"},{"startTime":3473.94,"endTime":3478.94,"body":"but I see no reason why at"},{"startTime":3473.94,"endTime":3478.94,"body":"some stage we, you know,"},{"startTime":3479.07,"endTime":3484.07,"body":"you couldn't have a system"},{"startTime":3479.07,"endTime":3484.07,"body":"whereby, you know, judges decide,"},{"startTime":3484.087,"endTime":3486.9,"body":"\"Okay, at this point I'm"},{"startTime":3484.087,"endTime":3486.9,"body":"going to make it a career\","},{"startTime":3486.9,"endTime":3491.13,"body":"and there is a skillset"},{"startTime":3486.9,"endTime":3491.13,"body":"training, you know,"},{"startTime":3491.13,"endTime":3492.87,"body":"however you decide to do it,"},{"startTime":3492.87,"endTime":3497.85,"body":"so it becomes part of that"},{"startTime":3492.87,"endTime":3497.85,"body":"training a career system."},{"startTime":3497.85,"endTime":3500.1,"body":"So perhaps a combination."},{"startTime":3500.1,"endTime":3500.933,"body":"- Thank you very much"},{"startTime":3500.933,"endTime":3503.37,"body":"for another interesting"},{"startTime":3500.933,"endTime":3503.37,"body":"and stimulating talk,"},{"startTime":3503.37,"endTime":3506.31,"body":"particularly your judgements"},{"startTime":3503.37,"endTime":3506.31,"body":"on various judges."},{"startTime":3506.31,"endTime":3507.36,"body":"(speaker laughing)"},{"startTime":3507.36,"endTime":3510.03,"body":"- Not my judgments, what's been reported."},{"startTime":3510.03,"endTime":3510.863,"body":"- Right."},{"startTime":3510.863,"endTime":3515.1,"body":"One of the questions, when"},{"startTime":3510.863,"endTime":3515.1,"body":"you were talking about"},{"startTime":3515.1,"endTime":3516.357,"body":"accountability of the judges,"},{"startTime":3516.357,"endTime":3519.87,"body":"I'm not sure under the"},{"startTime":3516.357,"endTime":3519.87,"body":"various points you raised"},{"startTime":3519.87,"endTime":3522.24,"body":"a case that goes back"},{"startTime":3519.87,"endTime":3522.24,"body":"to about 60 years ago,"},{"startTime":3522.24,"endTime":3524.73,"body":"and I learned from this"},{"startTime":3522.24,"endTime":3524.73,"body":"actually from my father,"},{"startTime":3524.73,"endTime":3528.87,"body":"because the work was entirely"},{"startTime":3524.73,"endTime":3528.87,"body":"to do with crime and law,"},{"startTime":3528.87,"endTime":3532.383,"body":"is that one of the High"},{"startTime":3528.87,"endTime":3532.383,"body":"Court judges had to, was,"},{"startTime":3533.28,"endTime":3535.11,"body":"he told me he was invited to resign,"},{"startTime":3535.11,"endTime":3538.2,"body":"because of very significant proportion"},{"startTime":3538.2,"endTime":3541.32,"body":"of his judgments were"},{"startTime":3538.2,"endTime":3541.32,"body":"overturned by the Appeals Court."},{"startTime":3541.32,"endTime":3544.26,"body":"I think it was something"},{"startTime":3541.32,"endTime":3544.26,"body":"in the order of 30 or 40%,"},{"startTime":3544.26,"endTime":3546.39,"body":"but that wasn't made generally public."},{"startTime":3546.39,"endTime":3548.673,"body":"The other thing I wanted to ask you about,"},{"startTime":3549.99,"endTime":3554.25,"body":"you've more than touched"},{"startTime":3549.99,"endTime":3554.25,"body":"on the point of education."},{"startTime":3554.25,"endTime":3556.93,"body":"Do you think it would be useful in Britain"},{"startTime":3557.97,"endTime":3562.97,"body":"if the study of law was made"},{"startTime":3557.97,"endTime":3562.97,"body":"a postgraduate level study,"},{"startTime":3564.24,"endTime":3566.85,"body":"as they have been, I"},{"startTime":3564.24,"endTime":3566.85,"body":"understand in America --"},{"startTime":3566.85,"endTime":3567.9,"body":"- Yeah."},{"startTime":3566.85,"endTime":3567.9,"body":"- You can't study"},{"startTime":3567.9,"endTime":3569.073,"body":"- I understand."},{"startTime":3567.9,"endTime":3569.073,"body":"- Yes."},{"startTime":3570.84,"endTime":3572.79,"body":"All right, so two parts of the question."},{"startTime":3572.79,"endTime":3573.993,"body":"The first part was,"},{"startTime":3575.19,"endTime":3580.05,"body":"was I aware of a judge who"},{"startTime":3575.19,"endTime":3580.05,"body":"had 30 to 40% of his judgments"},{"startTime":3580.05,"endTime":3582.84,"body":"overturned and stood down because of that?"},{"startTime":3582.84,"endTime":3586.53,"body":"I wasn't aware of that, so"},{"startTime":3582.84,"endTime":3586.53,"body":"I can't comment on that."},{"startTime":3586.53,"endTime":3588.78,"body":"And secondly, what do I think"},{"startTime":3588.78,"endTime":3592.6,"body":"about changing the"},{"startTime":3588.78,"endTime":3592.6,"body":"education system so that"},{"startTime":3594.236,"endTime":3599.236,"body":"becoming a lawyer effectively"},{"startTime":3594.236,"endTime":3599.236,"body":"becomes a postgraduate,"},{"startTime":3599.61,"endTime":3601.2,"body":"not an undergraduate."},{"startTime":3601.2,"endTime":3604.02,"body":"I actually think there's"},{"startTime":3601.2,"endTime":3604.02,"body":"some merit in that."},{"startTime":3604.02,"endTime":3608.07,"body":"I actually think there's"},{"startTime":3604.02,"endTime":3608.07,"body":"some merit in doing law"},{"startTime":3608.07,"endTime":3610.653,"body":"at postgraduate level, doing a, you know,"},{"startTime":3611.67,"endTime":3616.263,"body":"learning about life, doing"},{"startTime":3611.67,"endTime":3616.263,"body":"another degree subject."},{"startTime":3618.03,"endTime":3621.667,"body":"I did a law degree and I'm"},{"startTime":3618.03,"endTime":3621.667,"body":"often asked by students,"},{"startTime":3621.667,"endTime":3622.86,"body":"\"Do you need to do a law degree?\""},{"startTime":3622.86,"endTime":3623.94,"body":"And I say, \"I wish I hadn't."},{"startTime":3623.94,"endTime":3626.22,"body":"I wish I've done something"},{"startTime":3623.94,"endTime":3626.22,"body":"else, and then come to law,"},{"startTime":3626.22,"endTime":3630.48,"body":"'cause it would just give"},{"startTime":3626.22,"endTime":3630.48,"body":"me a much broader outlook.\""},{"startTime":3630.48,"endTime":3631.53,"body":"But that's my view."},{"startTime":3631.53,"endTime":3632.4,"body":"- [Audience Member] Thank you very much."},{"startTime":3632.4,"endTime":3634.29,"body":"I got a real education tonight."},{"startTime":3634.29,"endTime":3637.59,"body":"Can I please ask you, the"},{"startTime":3634.29,"endTime":3637.59,"body":"reason I'm asking this"},{"startTime":3637.59,"endTime":3642.0,"body":"is that judges here should not have to be,"},{"startTime":3642.0,"endTime":3645.45,"body":"having a lot of experience as a barrister,"},{"startTime":3645.45,"endTime":3646.83,"body":"when in other legal systems"},{"startTime":3646.83,"endTime":3649.86,"body":"like the prestigious"},{"startTime":3646.83,"endTime":3649.86,"body":"institute for judges training"},{"startTime":3649.86,"endTime":3654.0,"body":"in France, in Paris, they"},{"startTime":3649.86,"endTime":3654.0,"body":"must have at least 15, 16,"},{"startTime":3654.0,"endTime":3656.7,"body":"and that is a fast track"},{"startTime":3654.0,"endTime":3656.7,"body":"even more, in Holland,"},{"startTime":3656.7,"endTime":3659.91,"body":"it used to be 25 years"},{"startTime":3656.7,"endTime":3659.91,"body":"experience as a barrister,"},{"startTime":3659.91,"endTime":3662.07,"body":"before you could be appointed a judge."},{"startTime":3662.07,"endTime":3665.703,"body":"How come it has lasted so"},{"startTime":3662.07,"endTime":3665.703,"body":"long here in this country?"},{"startTime":3668.58,"endTime":3669.9,"body":"- I can't answer that."},{"startTime":3669.9,"endTime":3674.9,"body":"I mean to say, you know, as"},{"startTime":3669.9,"endTime":3674.9,"body":"I've indicated in the lecture,"},{"startTime":3675.3,"endTime":3678.24,"body":"we have a system that is"},{"startTime":3675.3,"endTime":3678.24,"body":"very unique to this country."},{"startTime":3678.24,"endTime":3680.14,"body":"It used to be the tap on the shoulder."},{"startTime":3681.27,"endTime":3685.86,"body":"You know, I've indicated"},{"startTime":3681.27,"endTime":3685.86,"body":"that traditionally"},{"startTime":3685.86,"endTime":3690.86,"body":"a lot of the senior judges come"},{"startTime":3685.86,"endTime":3690.86,"body":"from commercial backgrounds."},{"startTime":3691.2,"endTime":3694.29,"body":"You know, you just need"},{"startTime":3691.2,"endTime":3694.29,"body":"to look at the numbers,"},{"startTime":3694.29,"endTime":3698.43,"body":"and you know, of the people who have said"},{"startTime":3698.43,"endTime":3701.07,"body":"to have got to the top of their careers,"},{"startTime":3701.07,"endTime":3704.55,"body":"maybe they've made silk, you know,"},{"startTime":3704.55,"endTime":3707.4,"body":"very early, very quickly, you know,"},{"startTime":3707.4,"endTime":3710.857,"body":"I know in some areas of law,"},{"startTime":3712.045,"endTime":3716.19,"body":"some of my colleagues"},{"startTime":3712.045,"endTime":3716.19,"body":"make silk much earlier"},{"startTime":3716.19,"endTime":3718.05,"body":"than in other areas of law."},{"startTime":3718.05,"endTime":3720.12,"body":"Again, that's not an opinion."},{"startTime":3720.12,"endTime":3723.96,"body":"You just need to look, you"},{"startTime":3720.12,"endTime":3723.96,"body":"know, crunch the statistics,"},{"startTime":3723.96,"endTime":3728.933,"body":"and I think there is merit"},{"startTime":3723.96,"endTime":3728.933,"body":"in what you say that before"},{"startTime":3729.96,"endTime":3734.96,"body":"somebody should be judging,"},{"startTime":3729.96,"endTime":3734.96,"body":"you need a body of experience."},{"startTime":3735.3,"endTime":3737.238,"body":"- Like in medicine."},{"startTime":3735.3,"endTime":3737.238,"body":"- Yeah."},{"startTime":3737.238,"endTime":3740.133,"body":"- You need a body of experience,"},{"startTime":3741.755,"endTime":3746.373,"body":"and perhaps there is an argument"},{"startTime":3741.755,"endTime":3746.373,"body":"that at times, you know,"},{"startTime":3747.6,"endTime":3750.15,"body":"judges who don't have"},{"startTime":3747.6,"endTime":3750.15,"body":"that body of experience,"},{"startTime":3750.15,"endTime":3753.42,"body":"who very, very young in their experience"},{"startTime":3753.42,"endTime":3754.47,"body":"shouldn't be judging."},{"startTime":3754.47,"endTime":3755.7,"body":"So yeah."},{"startTime":3755.7,"endTime":3757.5,"body":"- I'm really sorry that we"},{"startTime":3755.7,"endTime":3757.5,"body":"are going to have to cut"},{"startTime":3757.5,"endTime":3759.45,"body":"the questioning short, we're over time."},{"startTime":3759.45,"endTime":3760.92,"body":"Thank you very, very much for coming,"},{"startTime":3760.92,"endTime":3762.39,"body":"thank you for watching online."},{"startTime":3762.39,"endTime":3763.518,"body":"Leslie Thomas."},{"startTime":3762.39,"endTime":3763.518,"body":"(audience applause)"},{"startTime":3763.518,"endTime":3764.754,"body":"(audience applause)"},{"startTime":3763.518,"endTime":3764.754,"body":"Thank you very much."},{"startTime":3764.754,"endTime":3769.437,"body":"- Thank you."},{"startTime":3764.754,"endTime":3769.437,"body":"(audience applause)"}]}