{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":4.875,"endTime":5.965,"body":"Good evening everybody."},{"startTime":6.465,"endTime":13.808,"body":"At least in British time, I've stuck the expression pagan survivals into the subtitle of"},{"startTime":13.808,"endTime":17.725,"body":"my talk, so I'll start with that concept."},{"startTime":18.945,"endTime":26.805,"body":"During the 19th and early 20th centuries, many scholars expressed a belief that paganism by"},{"startTime":26.805,"endTime":27.329,"body":"some definition and in some form had survived through the European Middle Ages and far"},{"startTime":27.329,"endTime":37.285,"body":"into the early modern period."},{"startTime":38.155,"endTime":45.439,"body":"This belief took many forms to Jeffrey Colton, the great historian of the medieval English"},{"startTime":45.439,"endTime":45.925,"body":"church."},{"startTime":46.605,"endTime":55.437,"body":"Christianity had merely been a veneer brushed on top of a world of rural commoners"},{"startTime":55.437,"endTime":56.026,"body":"who still secretly honored the ancient deities, folk loyalists classified whole categories of modern popular"},{"startTime":56.026,"endTime":71.925,"body":"custom as relics of ancient pagan belief and ritual persisting into modern times."},{"startTime":73.185,"endTime":80.285,"body":"And archeologists and experts and English literature accepted this idea with enthusiasm."},{"startTime":81.485,"endTime":91.469,"body":"Medieval church carvings such as foliate heads and women displaying their vulva were interpreted as"},{"startTime":91.469,"endTime":98.125,"body":"representations of older deities still venerated within a Christian setting."},{"startTime":99.475,"endTime":108.236,"body":"Experts in Anglo-Saxon healing and protective charms eagerly identified the names of heathen Gods preserved"},{"startTime":108.236,"endTime":109.405,"body":"in them."},{"startTime":110.235,"endTime":119.313,"body":"Popular magic of the sort practiced by wanting wise folk or cunning folk was labeled"},{"startTime":119.313,"endTime":125.365,"body":"pagan simply because orthodox Christianity was always disapproving of it."},{"startTime":126.435,"endTime":134.82,"body":"Some authors of whom Margaret Murray was the last and most celebrated, even argued that"},{"startTime":134.82,"endTime":135.379,"body":"a full blown pagan cult had persisted beyond the end of the Middle Ages and"},{"startTime":135.379,"endTime":135.938,"body":"was persecuted in early modern trials under the name of witchcraft, Margaret Murray convinced such"},{"startTime":135.938,"endTime":136.497,"body":"leading historians in the mid 20th century as Sir Stephen Runciman, sir George Clark and"},{"startTime":136.497,"endTime":165.565,"body":"Christopher Hill, two different forces united to create this tradition."},{"startTime":166.385,"endTime":175.729,"body":"One was almost as old as established Christianity itself, a desire to police the boundaries"},{"startTime":175.729,"endTime":176.352,"body":"of Christianity and condemn anything that did not conform with strict orthodoxy, especially elements of"},{"startTime":176.352,"endTime":187.565,"body":"popular belief as pagan."},{"startTime":188.145,"endTime":194.045,"body":"It was a theme of evangelical and reforming clergy all through the centuries."},{"startTime":195.225,"endTime":204.305,"body":"The second force that created the tradition was decisively modern, a desire to undermine Christianity"},{"startTime":204.305,"endTime":204.911,"body":"and to break its cultural dominance by suggesting that even in its apparent medieval and"},{"startTime":204.911,"endTime":205.516,"body":"early modern heyday, its hold had never been as complete, especially among ordinary people as"},{"startTime":205.516,"endTime":206.122,"body":"had been claimed, perhaps because of the transition to an increasingly post-Christian set of cultures"},{"startTime":206.122,"endTime":233.365,"body":"in the west."},{"startTime":233.955,"endTime":238.925,"body":"Both forces weakened during the later 20th century."},{"startTime":240.185,"endTime":251.005,"body":"By the 1990s, historians tended to make a distinction between surviving paganism and pagan survivals."},{"startTime":252.445,"endTime":260.399,"body":"A unanimous agreement had apparently been reached among them by then that there was no"},{"startTime":260.399,"endTime":260.929,"body":"surviving paganism in any area of Europe for more than one or 200 years after"},{"startTime":260.929,"endTime":271.005,"body":"its official conversion to Christianity."},{"startTime":272.385,"endTime":281.25,"body":"In other words, no coherent and self-conscious pagan resistance movement persisted anywhere in the continent"},{"startTime":281.25,"endTime":289.525,"body":"for long with the retention of allegiance to pagan deities in preference to Christianity."},{"startTime":290.185,"endTime":300.517,"body":"By contrast, there was equal unanimity that large quantities of ideas, figures, stories, spells, customs,"},{"startTime":300.517,"endTime":301.206,"body":"and motifs had been taken into medieval and early modern culture from ancient paganism and"},{"startTime":301.206,"endTime":313.605,"body":"some proved remarkably endearing."},{"startTime":314.495,"endTime":323.077,"body":"These span the fields of architecture, art, literature, magic medicine, and folk tradition scholars were"},{"startTime":323.077,"endTime":323.649,"body":"not unanimous regarding the extent of this importation or the spirit in which it was"},{"startTime":323.649,"endTime":338.525,"body":"conducted or whether specific phenomena should be assigned to it or not."},{"startTime":339.075,"endTime":347.59,"body":"Nonetheless, the general principle was accepted its united authors as different in their interests as"},{"startTime":347.59,"endTime":351.565,"body":"Norman Cohen, the historian of apocalyptic movements."},{"startTime":352.335,"endTime":361.217,"body":"Carlo Ginsburg, the greatest living Italian historian, expert in popular culture, Ava pos in Hungary,"},{"startTime":361.217,"endTime":361.809,"body":"expert in Hungarian shamanism and myself, and it inspired the collection entitled The Pagan Middle"},{"startTime":361.809,"endTime":374.245,"body":"Ages, edited by Ludo Meis in 1991."},{"startTime":375.865,"endTime":384.827,"body":"During the 1990s, however, some colleagues began to reject the term pagan altogether for these"},{"startTime":384.827,"endTime":385.425,"body":"borrowings proposing that expressions like lay Christianity or religious folk law should be employed instead"},{"startTime":385.425,"endTime":399.765,"body":"during the present century, this reaction has gone still further."},{"startTime":400.535,"endTime":407.849,"body":"Chris Wickham, a fine historian at Oxford, has emphasized how much what he terms traditional"},{"startTime":407.849,"endTime":412.725,"body":"rituals were seen as Christian by those who use them."},{"startTime":413.515,"endTime":423.617,"body":"Stephen Maroney in America has insisted that such customs were not substantially different from broad"},{"startTime":423.617,"endTime":424.965,"body":"Christian spirituality."},{"startTime":425.795,"endTime":434.593,"body":"Cole Watkins young historian at Cambridge has gone furthest attacking Carlo Ginsburg, Norman Cohn and"},{"startTime":434.593,"endTime":435.18,"body":"me for using the concept of pagan survivals at all when to do so simply"},{"startTime":435.18,"endTime":435.767,"body":"in his opinion, reflected the misrepresentations of evangelical, medieval and early modern Christians by calling"},{"startTime":435.767,"endTime":453.365,"body":"things pagan."},{"startTime":454.545,"endTime":461.776,"body":"My talk tonight is intended as a response to these views, not with the intention"},{"startTime":461.776,"endTime":468.525,"body":"of attacking them in return, but of recasting the basic terms of the discussion."},{"startTime":469.225,"endTime":475.092,"body":"I'm going to look at a set of figures found in the medieval and early"},{"startTime":475.092,"endTime":475.483,"body":"modern imagination, which do not seem to me to fit very well into the categories"},{"startTime":475.483,"endTime":482.525,"body":"of pagan or Christian."},{"startTime":483.315,"endTime":492.606,"body":"They cannot straightforwardly be called pagan because they don't seem to be demonstrable survivals from"},{"startTime":492.606,"endTime":493.845,"body":"pre-Christian cults."},{"startTime":494.705,"endTime":502.301,"body":"On the other hand, they have absolutely no derivation from Christian theology or cosmology, so"},{"startTime":502.301,"endTime":502.808,"body":"simply to term them a form of Christianity seems to beg an awful lot of"},{"startTime":502.808,"endTime":510.405,"body":"questions."},{"startTime":511.865,"endTime":517.845,"body":"One of them is found in learned and elite culture and three in popular culture."},{"startTime":518.495,"endTime":525.29,"body":"Those in popular culture seem to me to be more interesting and significant, but the"},{"startTime":525.29,"endTime":532.085,"body":"former also has its place in this discussion, so I shall deal with it first."},{"startTime":534.185,"endTime":542.645,"body":"She consists of a mighty female figure fought to represent the natural world, the terrestrial"},{"startTime":542.645,"endTime":548.285,"body":"realm, or sometimes the cosmos below the level of heaven."},{"startTime":549.075,"endTime":556.936,"body":"Certainly the Greeks and the Romans have conceived of such beings, the Greek Gaia and"},{"startTime":556.936,"endTime":560.605,"body":"the Roman Terra Marta, literally mother earth."},{"startTime":562.185,"endTime":569.015,"body":"In that sense, their presence in medieval and early modern texts might be called an"},{"startTime":569.015,"endTime":575.845,"body":"inheritance from the ancient world, and they might even be termed pagan survivals in another."},{"startTime":575.845,"endTime":579.405,"body":"However, such terminology is questionable."},{"startTime":580.155,"endTime":588.87,"body":"This is because such figures featured in ancient culture, mostly as representative figures in literature"},{"startTime":588.87,"endTime":597.005,"body":"having little actual worship attached to them, and no major cult centers, no temples."},{"startTime":597.825,"endTime":605.011,"body":"The ancient peoples who've left records could therefore conceive of such figures as abstractions, but"},{"startTime":605.011,"endTime":608.845,"body":"have not much use for them in religion."},{"startTime":609.795,"endTime":615.405,"body":"This may have made it easier for Christian culture to find a place for them."},{"startTime":616.555,"endTime":621.245,"body":"They play a part in two well-known early medieval charms."},{"startTime":622.065,"endTime":629.89,"body":"One is a polished poem in praise of earth, divine goddess, mother nature, which may"},{"startTime":629.89,"endTime":630.412,"body":"have been composed by a late Roman pagan, but it was prescribed for the collection"},{"startTime":630.412,"endTime":630.934,"body":"of herbs in Christian times to increase their potency in medicine and as such found"},{"startTime":630.934,"endTime":652.325,"body":"in Latin manuscripts and one English translation between the sixth and 12th centuries."},{"startTime":653.425,"endTime":661.093,"body":"The other charm is the Anglo-Saxon acre bot, a right to increase the fertility of"},{"startTime":661.093,"endTime":661.605,"body":"fields."},{"startTime":662.265,"endTime":667.525,"body":"It calls on a range of Christian Powers, but also on Earth's mother."},{"startTime":668.595,"endTime":676.1,"body":"This entity is treated as the indwelling spirit of the soil to be fertilized, granted"},{"startTime":676.1,"endTime":682.605,"body":"her power by the Christian God who also makes the gift of fertility."},{"startTime":684.075,"endTime":690.969,"body":"Such a theology of finding a place for this kind of divine female entity within"},{"startTime":690.969,"endTime":697.405,"body":"Christianity was continued by some of the leading figures of the 12th century renaissance."},{"startTime":697.755,"endTime":705.675,"body":"They pitched on the figure of NA nature which had been developed by pagan poets"},{"startTime":705.675,"endTime":706.203,"body":"At the very end of the ancient world, the greatest of all late antique Christian"},{"startTime":706.203,"endTime":706.731,"body":"theologians or Augustan had sanctioned regard for her by calling nature a teacher of truth"},{"startTime":706.731,"endTime":724.685,"body":"appointed by the Christian God himself."},{"startTime":725.485,"endTime":730.645,"body":"Moreover, Augustine regarded her as possibly an animate being."},{"startTime":731.555,"endTime":737.205,"body":"This made it much easier for later medieval scholars to embody her."},{"startTime":738.105,"endTime":745.662,"body":"She was represented as a divine female in Christian texts between the fifth and the"},{"startTime":745.662,"endTime":746.166,"body":"11th centuries, but it was really the school at 12th century Shark in the center"},{"startTime":746.166,"endTime":746.67,"body":"of France, which took her up at Shark Bernard Sylvester, whose images on the screen"},{"startTime":746.67,"endTime":747.173,"body":"made her divinity sprung from God and given the task of calling matter into being"},{"startTime":747.173,"endTime":772.365,"body":"remaining the force which engendered fertility and procreation."},{"startTime":773.425,"endTime":780.19,"body":"His successor, Alan of Le called her the agent of God in earthly affairs and"},{"startTime":780.19,"endTime":782.445,"body":"the maker of human beings."},{"startTime":783.145,"endTime":791.109,"body":"He represented her as a virgin crowned with stars and riding at a glass coach"},{"startTime":791.109,"endTime":791.64,"body":"drawn by peacocks and attended by a train of spirits personifying the virtues a century"},{"startTime":791.64,"endTime":799.605,"body":"later."},{"startTime":799.665,"endTime":806.902,"body":"And the great poem, the Homa DJOs, she became a being of inexpressible beauty created"},{"startTime":806.902,"endTime":811.245,"body":"by God to govern the universe on his behalf."},{"startTime":812.635,"endTime":819.61,"body":"This idea was taken into English letters by Jeffrey Chauser and John Litigate in the"},{"startTime":819.61,"endTime":821.005,"body":"early modern period."},{"startTime":821.465,"endTime":828.458,"body":"It was transferred into the cosmology based on the teachings of Plato, the ancient Greek"},{"startTime":828.458,"endTime":828.925,"body":"philosopher."},{"startTime":829.305,"endTime":837.005,"body":"By speaking not so much of nature as of a world soul, a mighty female"},{"startTime":837.005,"endTime":837.518,"body":"figure standing between God and the earth and functioning as the foun of life and"},{"startTime":837.518,"endTime":846.245,"body":"inspiration and pictorially."},{"startTime":846.385,"endTime":852.035,"body":"As many of you can see, she was identified with the night sky, the moon"},{"startTime":852.035,"endTime":853.165,"body":"and the stars."},{"startTime":854.035,"endTime":861.133,"body":"It's been a short step from here to the 19th century romantic preoccupation with the"},{"startTime":861.133,"endTime":867.285,"body":"divine feminine as both or alternatively a moon goddess and as mother earth."},{"startTime":867.875,"endTime":874.183,"body":"More of that next year, none of the medieval and early modern expressions of it"},{"startTime":874.183,"endTime":875.445,"body":"represented serious theology."},{"startTime":876.235,"endTime":883.727,"body":"They were all forms of poetic allegory, but the consistency with which this preserved such"},{"startTime":883.727,"endTime":885.725,"body":"a figure is striking."},{"startTime":887.205,"endTime":894.088,"body":"I have, however, already laid more stress on popular treatments of supernatural females than those"},{"startTime":894.088,"endTime":894.547,"body":"of high literary culture and it's time now to turn to the three of these"},{"startTime":894.547,"endTime":903.725,"body":"which I'd regard as especially important."},{"startTime":904.425,"endTime":912.725,"body":"One is British, one Western European, and one specifically Gaelic the British."},{"startTime":912.945,"endTime":920.165,"body":"One is the fairy queen who seems to have been a distinctively late medieval creation."},{"startTime":921.025,"endTime":928.342,"body":"The Anglo-Saxons certainly believed in fairy like beings, which they called elves, but we know"},{"startTime":928.342,"endTime":934.685,"body":"very little of certainty about them saved that they were supposed to blight."},{"startTime":934.685,"endTime":941.565,"body":"People with physical maladies like those in the manuscript shown effectively demons."},{"startTime":942.305,"endTime":949.319,"body":"We may presume that elves were prehistoric because they appear near the beginning of English"},{"startTime":949.319,"endTime":949.787,"body":"history and also that the native British believed in land spirits of various kinds because"},{"startTime":949.787,"endTime":958.205,"body":"traditional peoples always do."},{"startTime":959.435,"endTime":966.519,"body":"English texts of the 13th and the 12th centuries contain a lot of information about"},{"startTime":966.519,"endTime":966.991,"body":"fairy like beings, which was to pass into later fairy law and which was reported"},{"startTime":966.991,"endTime":975.965,"body":"at all levels of society."},{"startTime":977.465,"endTime":984.679,"body":"It included the concept of a parallel realm of human-like beings superior in some respects"},{"startTime":984.679,"endTime":987.565,"body":"to humans with its own ruler."},{"startTime":988.395,"endTime":996.045,"body":"This was not, however, a consistent motif when speaking of fairy like beings, and there"},{"startTime":996.045,"endTime":996.555,"body":"seems to have been no coherent belief system to contain and explain the stories told"},{"startTime":996.555,"endTime":1008.285,"body":"about them, which treated them as aspects of reality."},{"startTime":1009.155,"endTime":1015.485,"body":"High medieval intellectuals struggled and failed to create a general category for them."},{"startTime":1016.675,"endTime":1025.792,"body":"That category was to be created ultimately from a different genre that of literary chivalric"},{"startTime":1025.792,"endTime":1026.4,"body":"romance, which was composed for and consumed by lords and ladies and represented patently as"},{"startTime":1026.4,"endTime":1036.125,"body":"pure fantasy."},{"startTime":1037.315,"endTime":1045.14,"body":"This featured beings usually called phase like those on the left of your image up"},{"startTime":1045.14,"endTime":1052.965,"body":"there who had sumptuous lifestyles resembling those of the same elites but wielded superhuman powers."},{"startTime":1054.305,"endTime":1059.885,"body":"As such, they functioned as patrons, lovers or predators."},{"startTime":1061.025,"endTime":1068.152,"body":"For the knights and ladies who are the leading characters of the romances, the French"},{"startTime":1068.152,"endTime":1068.627,"body":"word Faye, was to supply the origin of the English word fairy as a entered"},{"startTime":1068.627,"endTime":1078.605,"body":"Britain through the medium of these romances."},{"startTime":1079.665,"endTime":1085.47,"body":"By the opening of the 14th century, the literary tradition was apparently blending with a"},{"startTime":1085.47,"endTime":1086.245,"body":"popular one."},{"startTime":1086.825,"endTime":1094.953,"body":"As English churchmen began to condemn people who believed in beautiful female spirits who danced"},{"startTime":1094.953,"endTime":1098.205,"body":"at night in wild, natural places."},{"startTime":1099.345,"endTime":1107.55,"body":"The position of a queen among such beings, with or without a male consort emerged"},{"startTime":1107.55,"endTime":1110.285,"body":"in French and English literature."},{"startTime":1110.545,"endTime":1118.435,"body":"Around the same time, the classical goddess zaine the Greek Persephone had some influence in"},{"startTime":1118.435,"endTime":1126.325,"body":"her development as the most prominent existing model for a divine queen of an underworld."},{"startTime":1127.185,"endTime":1136.163,"body":"And as such, Zaine appears around 1300 in the romance author of Little Britain as"},{"startTime":1136.163,"endTime":1136.762,"body":"Queen of fairy, while another romance Oreo of about the same date has a well-rounded"},{"startTime":1136.762,"endTime":1152.325,"body":"picture of a fairy land, which is also the classical Greek underworld."},{"startTime":1153.035,"endTime":1157.285,"body":"Oreo is the Greek hero Orpheus searching for his wife."},{"startTime":1158.585,"endTime":1165.878,"body":"By the end of the 14th century, the fairy queen or elf queen was becoming"},{"startTime":1165.878,"endTime":1172.685,"body":"fully established in English letters featuring most famously in the work of Jeffrey Chauser."},{"startTime":1173.795,"endTime":1182.279,"body":"Some existing romances were reworked to accommodate, for example, a French romance from the 12th"},{"startTime":1182.279,"endTime":1182.845,"body":"century."},{"startTime":1183.785,"endTime":1192.056,"body":"Sir l Fal had starred a beautiful and mysterious Faye who aids a knight in"},{"startTime":1192.056,"endTime":1195.365,"body":"a late 14th century English rewrite."},{"startTime":1195.945,"endTime":1206.102,"body":"She becomes explicitly the daughter of the king of fairy redressed in what was becoming"},{"startTime":1206.102,"endTime":1210.165,"body":"the signature fairy color of green."},{"startTime":1211.105,"endTime":1213.085,"body":"By the early 14th century."},{"startTime":1214.105,"endTime":1221.059,"body":"By the early 15th century, the literary construct of the fairy kingdom in which the"},{"startTime":1221.059,"endTime":1221.523,"body":"queen was the more prominent ruler was fully established and found in Scotland as firmly"},{"startTime":1221.523,"endTime":1229.405,"body":"as in England."},{"startTime":1230.225,"endTime":1237.99,"body":"The famous Scottish romance, true Thomas or Thomas of Al Dune, featuring just such a"},{"startTime":1237.99,"endTime":1243.685,"body":"queen magnificently was composed in the first quarter of that century."},{"startTime":1245.535,"endTime":1253.745,"body":"Until now, fairy had meant enchantment rather than signifying a type of being, but that"},{"startTime":1253.745,"endTime":1258.125,"body":"transition had been made by the 15th century."},{"startTime":1259.075,"endTime":1266.921,"body":"Furthermore, the concept of the queen of fairies had got firmly into popular culture by"},{"startTime":1266.921,"endTime":1267.445,"body":"1450."},{"startTime":1268.065,"endTime":1275.663,"body":"It was found used in England by criminal gangs, by maniacs and by frauds and"},{"startTime":1275.663,"endTime":1276.17,"body":"village magicians were claiming to have learned their skills from the queen, the use by"},{"startTime":1276.17,"endTime":1276.676,"body":"English commoners of what had been a French word , specifically related to the actions"},{"startTime":1276.676,"endTime":1277.183,"body":"of beings known by the French word Faye, shows how much this tradition had been"},{"startTime":1277.183,"endTime":1277.69,"body":"imported from the romance literature thereafter, its remained a major theme of both popular culture"},{"startTime":1277.69,"endTime":1309.605,"body":"and literature all over England and Scotland."},{"startTime":1310.825,"endTime":1317.392,"body":"For the remainder of the early modern period right through to the end of the"},{"startTime":1317.392,"endTime":1323.085,"body":"17th century, poets and playwrights regularly portrayed the fairy queen in their work."},{"startTime":1323.985,"endTime":1328.245,"body":"Her most celebrated appearance being as Shakespeare's Nia."},{"startTime":1328.915,"endTime":1334.485,"body":"Sometimes like Nia, she had a husband and sometimes not."},{"startTime":1335.305,"endTime":1343.784,"body":"She was also, however, just as prominent in the beliefs of ordinary people across most"},{"startTime":1343.784,"endTime":1344.35,"body":"of Britain popular magicians, the cunning or wise folk claim to have been taught their"},{"startTime":1344.35,"endTime":1344.915,"body":"craft by the queen or her followers, those accused of witchcraft sometimes likewise claimed to"},{"startTime":1344.915,"endTime":1345.48,"body":"have enjoyed her favors and confidence, tricksters quite frequently defrauded victims by promising to obtain"},{"startTime":1345.48,"endTime":1371.485,"body":"her favors for them."},{"startTime":1372.995,"endTime":1381.289,"body":"What is really interesting about all this is that fairies in general often still retained"},{"startTime":1381.289,"endTime":1387.925,"body":"the character of Anglo-Saxon elves of blighted humans or stealing their children."},{"startTime":1388.775,"endTime":1398.533,"body":"Their queen, however, was almost invariably viewed in positive terms as a benevolent and capable"},{"startTime":1398.533,"endTime":1400.485,"body":"protectress and benefactors."},{"startTime":1402.305,"endTime":1411.005,"body":"The second really significant supernatural female whom might identify in medieval early modern popular tradition"},{"startTime":1411.005,"endTime":1411.585,"body":"appeared much earlier than the fairy queen in a more mysterious circumstances and belief in"},{"startTime":1411.585,"endTime":1423.765,"body":"her covered a much larger geographical area."},{"startTime":1424.745,"endTime":1434.058,"body":"She traveled the night with a ue of spirits and or special human beings and"},{"startTime":1434.058,"endTime":1434.679,"body":"was known as Diana Heras Hol or Holder per or Bertha Ben Soia, Satia, RIA,"},{"startTime":1434.679,"endTime":1452.685,"body":"Abia Illa, and by a host of local names quite commonly, and especially in Italy."},{"startTime":1453.145,"endTime":1459.034,"body":"She was simply the lady and her ue, the blessed or good ladies or the"},{"startTime":1459.034,"endTime":1460.605,"body":"ladies of the knight."},{"startTime":1462.235,"endTime":1469.441,"body":"What she and her followers generally did was to visit the houses of favored humans,"},{"startTime":1469.441,"endTime":1473.765,"body":"usually the better behaved and cleaner in a community."},{"startTime":1473.945,"endTime":1481.196,"body":"The good guys, and bless them with good fortune, they often feasted in those houses,"},{"startTime":1481.196,"endTime":1487.965,"body":"but what the lady and her followers consumed was miraculously restored as they departed."},{"startTime":1488.635,"endTime":1494.373,"body":"Sometimes they held a revel of their own in some rural place, which is why"},{"startTime":1494.373,"endTime":1498.965,"body":"in Italy the ladies court was often known as the good game."},{"startTime":1500.415,"endTime":1505.005,"body":"Three aspects of her tradition seem consistent."},{"startTime":1505.855,"endTime":1512.267,"body":"First, it was a belief of commoners and especially of poor women and sometimes of"},{"startTime":1512.267,"endTime":1514.405,"body":"men of the same class."},{"startTime":1515.335,"endTime":1521.537,"body":"Their claim to travel with the lady gave them a status which normally they wouldn't"},{"startTime":1521.537,"endTime":1522.365,"body":"have possessed."},{"startTime":1523.275,"endTime":1531.455,"body":"Furthermore, the activities in which they said they took part represented a classical piece of"},{"startTime":1531.455,"endTime":1532.0,"body":"wish fulfillment for an underclass to become favored members of a supernatural royal court and"},{"startTime":1532.0,"endTime":1546.725,"body":"visit the houses of their wealthier neighbors to feast to their heart's contempt."},{"startTime":1548.105,"endTime":1555.727,"body":"Second, the women who claim to rove with the lady who often, or mostly the"},{"startTime":1555.727,"endTime":1556.235,"body":"folk magicians of their communities like those in Britain, who attributed their skills to the"},{"startTime":1556.235,"endTime":1556.743,"body":"tuition of the fairy queen, they frequently said they'd learned their magic from the lady"},{"startTime":1556.743,"endTime":1573.005,"body":"and her companions fur."},{"startTime":1573.745,"endTime":1579.365,"body":"The tradition seems nowhere to have involved any actual group activity."},{"startTime":1580.305,"endTime":1588.118,"body":"The travels of the humans who claimed to join these female phantasms were experienced in"},{"startTime":1588.118,"endTime":1591.765,"body":"their minds while their bodies remained static."},{"startTime":1593.465,"endTime":1600.916,"body":"The first reference to these beliefs comes in the ninth century in the famous cannon"},{"startTime":1600.916,"endTime":1601.412,"body":"Episcopy, which regarded them as already shared by a large number of people for the"},{"startTime":1601.412,"endTime":1601.909,"body":"next 300 years, they are recorded in texts from the frankish lambs with their epicenter"},{"startTime":1601.909,"endTime":1617.805,"body":"in the Rhine Valley."},{"startTime":1618.985,"endTime":1625.467,"body":"During the rest of the Middle Ages, they spread out over the whole of the"},{"startTime":1625.467,"endTime":1631.085,"body":"French and German speaking areas and across Italy to Sicily and into Spain."},{"startTime":1631.985,"endTime":1639.125,"body":"By the early modern period, they were contracting again, vanishing from most French speaking regions."},{"startTime":1639.895,"endTime":1643.245,"body":"There is no solid evidence that they ever reached Britain."},{"startTime":1643.985,"endTime":1650.633,"body":"Though they may have helped influence the developing figure of the fairy queen there as"},{"startTime":1650.633,"endTime":1651.076,"body":"they shrank into a continental heartland, they also broke into more clearly defined regional forms,"},{"startTime":1651.076,"endTime":1651.519,"body":"a German one in which the spirits remain, remained a leading figure or had a"},{"startTime":1651.519,"endTime":1651.962,"body":"leading figure, but humans didn't join in an alpine one in which they had no"},{"startTime":1651.962,"endTime":1652.405,"body":"leader and humans could join them and an Italian one in which they had a"},{"startTime":1652.405,"endTime":1679.885,"body":"leading figure and humans join them."},{"startTime":1680.785,"endTime":1683.005,"body":"So where did this idea come from?"},{"startTime":1683.985,"endTime":1690.719,"body":"The obvious answer, which is indeed the one which has always been made is that"},{"startTime":1690.719,"endTime":1697.005,"body":"it derived directly from ancient paganism and from the cult of a pre-Christian goddess."},{"startTime":1697.635,"endTime":1702.965,"body":"This remains entirely possible, but it seems very hard to prove."},{"startTime":1703.905,"endTime":1711.99,"body":"The names given to the superhuman leader by churchman from the ninth to the 16th"},{"startTime":1711.99,"endTime":1714.685,"body":"centuries were Diana and Herodias."},{"startTime":1715.375,"endTime":1722.327,"body":"Diana was indeed an ancient goddess of the night and wild places, but she was"},{"startTime":1722.327,"endTime":1722.791,"body":"a Roman one with no widespread popular cult north of the Alps, nor did miff"},{"startTime":1722.791,"endTime":1732.525,"body":"portray her as sweeping up human followers."},{"startTime":1733.925,"endTime":1742.375,"body":"Moreover, when those who claim to rove with the lady were interrogated by the authorities,"},{"startTime":1742.375,"endTime":1742.938,"body":"it was Churchmen who named her Diana, while her followers gave her other names associated"},{"startTime":1742.938,"endTime":1754.205,"body":"with abundance, generosity, wisdom, and stateliness."},{"startTime":1755.325,"endTime":1763.125,"body":"Likewise, it may be as Carlo Ginsburg thought that the churchman concerned or influenced by"},{"startTime":1763.125,"endTime":1763.645,"body":"classical learning, or it could simply be that Diana is the only pagan goddess found"},{"startTime":1763.645,"endTime":1764.165,"body":"in the New Testament, and indeed the only European one in the whole Bible, and"},{"startTime":1764.165,"endTime":1764.685,"body":"for that matter her is the wickedest woman found in the New Testament and a"},{"startTime":1764.685,"endTime":1765.205,"body":"12th century legend actually explained how she came to develop from her biblical persona to"},{"startTime":1765.205,"endTime":1800.045,"body":"become the leader of the Knight rides the great French scholar."},{"startTime":1800.585,"endTime":1808.565,"body":"Claude Lata proposed the Greek he as the ancestor of the medieval lady."},{"startTime":1809.425,"endTime":1816.045,"body":"She was associated with the night witchcraft and the dead and known to the Romans."},{"startTime":1816.635,"endTime":1823.885,"body":"However, she was never portrayed as the leader of a ue of earthbound spirits."},{"startTime":1825.485,"endTime":1834.84,"body":"Recognizing this Carlo Ginsburg proposed two other contenders, both of which had enjoyed huge popularity"},{"startTime":1834.84,"endTime":1842.325,"body":"under the Roman Empire with an epicenter in just the right place."},{"startTime":1842.825,"endTime":1847.005,"body":"The Rhineland for the appearance of the medieval myth."},{"startTime":1848.465,"endTime":1856.322,"body":"One of the goddesses proposed by Carlo Ginsburg was a poner goddess of horses and"},{"startTime":1856.322,"endTime":1862.085,"body":"patrons of their welfare and fertility, and so worshiped by riders."},{"startTime":1862.715,"endTime":1866.325,"body":"However, she was never shown with a retinue of any kind."},{"startTime":1866.895,"endTime":1873.38,"body":"While the medieval spirits when they did ride, used wild beasts as their steeds and"},{"startTime":1873.38,"endTime":1874.245,"body":"not horses."},{"startTime":1875.225,"endTime":1880.925,"body":"The other cult was of the mar trays or trona, the mothers or ladies."},{"startTime":1881.875,"endTime":1890.373,"body":"They were portrayed as three stately women standing or more usually seated in a row"},{"startTime":1890.373,"endTime":1896.605,"body":"and holding symbols of prosperity such as bread, fruit, and flowers."},{"startTime":1897.465,"endTime":1904.45,"body":"As such, they could make plausible originals, benevolent female superhumans who might visit and bless"},{"startTime":1904.45,"endTime":1904.916,"body":"houses at night, but they were never shown with a ue or in motion and"},{"startTime":1904.916,"endTime":1913.765,"body":"they never associated with animals."},{"startTime":1914.695,"endTime":1919.925,"body":"Conversely, the medieval ladies never traveled in trios."},{"startTime":1921.015,"endTime":1927.863,"body":"There is therefore no goddess or set of goddesses attested in the whole of the"},{"startTime":1927.863,"endTime":1932.885,"body":"archeological record, which makes a good fit with the medieval ladies."},{"startTime":1933.975,"endTime":1941.51,"body":"There remains a possibility that a pagan Germanic cult from outside the empire and so"},{"startTime":1941.51,"endTime":1949.045,"body":"outside of iconographic or epigraphic evidence lay behind these ladies on the face of it."},{"startTime":1949.115,"endTime":1956.782,"body":"However, a Germanic origin for the medieval myth seems a little unlikely, given that the"},{"startTime":1956.782,"endTime":1962.405,"body":"most thoroughly Germanic lands further north did not contain that myth."},{"startTime":1963.305,"endTime":1967.045,"body":"Its recorded range was mostly within the former Roman Empire."},{"startTime":1967.785,"endTime":1972.365,"body":"It remains possible that ancient goddesses lie behind the ladies'."},{"startTime":1972.365,"endTime":1978.965,"body":"Germanic names holler and pert, but the linguistic evidence is dubious."},{"startTime":1980.315,"endTime":1986.577,"body":"Pert is not recorded before the 14th century, and her name seems to derive from"},{"startTime":1986.577,"endTime":1992.005,"body":"the Christian feast of the epiphany 12th Night when she was most active."},{"startTime":1992.985,"endTime":2000.389,"body":"Holler or holder is mentioned earlier in the 11th century, but her name is at"},{"startTime":2000.389,"endTime":2003.845,"body":"first used of the Knight's rides themselves."},{"startTime":2004.785,"endTime":2008.165,"body":"She therefore seems like a personification of them."},{"startTime":2009.045,"endTime":2016.258,"body":"Scholars of ancient Germanic mythology have often used medieval Norse literature to try and plug"},{"startTime":2016.258,"endTime":2016.739,"body":"the gap left by the absence of evidence from pagan Germany that is indeed full"},{"startTime":2016.739,"endTime":2030.205,"body":"of revels by none human beings to which human magicians could fly in spirit."},{"startTime":2030.975,"endTime":2039.365,"body":"These revels were not, however, mainly female and had no identifiable leader."},{"startTime":2040.575,"endTime":2048.35,"body":"There are superhuman females called Valki, whom we all know andia in the literature, who"},{"startTime":2048.35,"endTime":2048.868,"body":"ride through the air sometimes in troops, but they never ride behind a leader or"},{"startTime":2048.868,"endTime":2059.235,"body":"invite living humans to join them."},{"startTime":2060.135,"endTime":2067.807,"body":"Modern Scandinavian folklore sometimes made the Norse God Odin leader of nocturnal cavalcades, but in"},{"startTime":2067.807,"endTime":2068.318,"body":"the medieval literature, he's a solitary traveler and only one text associates him with the"},{"startTime":2068.318,"endTime":2080.594,"body":"night rebels of spirits, which he breaks up in anger."},{"startTime":2081.635,"endTime":2083.514,"body":"Odin's not a party leader."},{"startTime":2083.705,"endTime":2084.915,"body":"He's a party pooper."},{"startTime":2086.364,"endTime":2094.675,"body":"There is therefore no clear pagan progenitor at all for the Lady of Medieval myth."},{"startTime":2095.415,"endTime":2103.126,"body":"It is entirely possible that that myth was assembled from aspects of the variety of"},{"startTime":2103.126,"endTime":2104.155,"body":"ancient cults."},{"startTime":2105.485,"endTime":2111.672,"body":"There is even a possibility that the original inspiration was actually Christian and that it"},{"startTime":2111.672,"endTime":2117.035,"body":"was adapted from legends of female saints who visited houses to bless them."},{"startTime":2117.805,"endTime":2124.74,"body":"There is however, no evidence for this at all, and the medieval lady was neither"},{"startTime":2124.74,"endTime":2127.515,"body":"saintly nor had any Christian associations."},{"startTime":2128.375,"endTime":2134.792,"body":"It is interesting in this context to note that the churchmen who condemned the belief"},{"startTime":2134.792,"endTime":2135.22,"body":"all through the middle ages knew what both paganism and heresy looked like and didn't"},{"startTime":2135.22,"endTime":2144.205,"body":"think that it belonged to either category."},{"startTime":2145.035,"endTime":2152.604,"body":"They treated it instead as a rather silly superstition carried on by people who are"},{"startTime":2152.604,"endTime":2159.165,"body":"otherwise orthodox Christians, at least until in a few places, mostly in Italy."},{"startTime":2159.665,"endTime":2166.525,"body":"It got eventually mixed up with the lethal early modern stereotype of the Satanic witch."},{"startTime":2167.355,"endTime":2175.9,"body":"What we seem to have in it, therefore is a long lived, widespread and tenacious,"},{"startTime":2175.9,"endTime":2184.445,"body":"popular and counter-cultural motif of wish fulfillment, personal space, and the acquisition of personal prestige."},{"startTime":2185.265,"endTime":2192.527,"body":"It appeared well into the Middle Ages burgeoned for half a millennium and then atrophied"},{"startTime":2192.527,"endTime":2196.885,"body":"again exist existing for the whole period alongside Christianity."},{"startTime":2198.185,"endTime":2206.377,"body":"My third example of a popular figure of this sort is the Ka, the old"},{"startTime":2206.377,"endTime":2206.924,"body":"woman recorded in 19th and 20th century folklore across the Gaelic world of Native Ireland,"},{"startTime":2206.924,"endTime":2221.125,"body":"the Highlands and Western Isles of Scotland and the Isle of Man."},{"startTime":2222.065,"endTime":2230.999,"body":"She features in it as a mighty giant female figure of immense age associated with"},{"startTime":2230.999,"endTime":2235.765,"body":"mountains, hills, and other wild places in Scotland."},{"startTime":2236.825,"endTime":2239.725,"body":"She is specifically the spirit of of winter."},{"startTime":2241.035,"endTime":2247.972,"body":"This stature and her wide range naturally led most folk loist to assume that she"},{"startTime":2247.972,"endTime":2250.285,"body":"was a major pagan goddess."},{"startTime":2251.825,"endTime":2259.103,"body":"The difficulty here is that she doesn't feature in her modern form in the older"},{"startTime":2259.103,"endTime":2261.045,"body":"literature of her regions."},{"startTime":2261.885,"endTime":2269.877,"body":"Medieval and early modern Scottish poetry certainly has supernatural or semi human hags of the"},{"startTime":2269.877,"endTime":2276.805,"body":"sort found across the Celtic cultural zone, but nothing really like the Ka."},{"startTime":2278.155,"endTime":2287.516,"body":"Even more striking, she's missing from the very rich literature of Medieval Ireland, which a"},{"startTime":2287.516,"endTime":2291.885,"body":"bounds with none human beings in particular."},{"startTime":2292.745,"endTime":2300.485,"body":"It includes a whole genre called the , which is devoted to explaining place names."},{"startTime":2301.545,"endTime":2307.457,"body":"The Ka is associated with lots of place names in modern Ireland, but none of"},{"startTime":2307.457,"endTime":2311.005,"body":"the medieval texts attach her to any of them."},{"startTime":2311.955,"endTime":2317.958,"body":"This cannot really be because she was a deity of the common people and the"},{"startTime":2317.958,"endTime":2318.358,"body":"texts were produced by elites because medieval island was divided into so many tiny kingdoms"},{"startTime":2318.358,"endTime":2329.165,"body":"that a cultural gap between rich and poor had hardly room to develop."},{"startTime":2330.545,"endTime":2338.329,"body":"Nor is it plausible to suggest that medieval authors avoided her outta distaste or fear"},{"startTime":2338.329,"endTime":2338.848,"body":"as they treat of several other superhuman females like the Morrigan equally abhorrent to medieval"},{"startTime":2338.848,"endTime":2339.367,"body":"Christian morays and have an awful lot of erotic and scatter stuff in them, which"},{"startTime":2339.367,"endTime":2360.125,"body":"is rather difficult for a lot of modern readers, let alone medieval."},{"startTime":2363.135,"endTime":2370.761,"body":"There is, however, a direct link between the medieval and the modern in her case"},{"startTime":2370.761,"endTime":2371.27,"body":"because in both Ireland and Scotland, the great land spirit was sometimes known specifically as"},{"startTime":2371.27,"endTime":2382.965,"body":"the , the old woman of the Ver district."},{"startTime":2383.595,"endTime":2386.405,"body":"This character is found in medieval texts."},{"startTime":2387.145,"endTime":2394.897,"body":"She is not however the same character in the two periods because in the medieval"},{"startTime":2394.897,"endTime":2395.414,"body":"literature, which depends ultimately on just one early medieval poem, she is a royal woman"},{"startTime":2395.414,"endTime":2409.885,"body":"once powerful and attractive, who is reduced to poverty and obscurity in old age."},{"startTime":2410.905,"endTime":2418.845,"body":"The name Kaiya, most scholars currently agree ultimately derives from the old Irish word."},{"startTime":2418.985,"endTime":2425.847,"body":"For a nun, it means the veiled one, which is what the original Kaiya ver"},{"startTime":2425.847,"endTime":2429.965,"body":"seems eventually to have become as an old lady."},{"startTime":2430.705,"endTime":2437.935,"body":"And the poem about her is a meditation on the transitory and ultimately worthless nature"},{"startTime":2437.935,"endTime":2445.165,"body":"of worldly success of the kind that devouted Christians of the Middle Ages would value."},{"startTime":2446.225,"endTime":2452.525,"body":"The scholars who've assumed that the modern kaiya was an ancient goddess have assumed likewise"},{"startTime":2452.525,"endTime":2457.565,"body":"that the same goddess lies behind the lamenting woman in the poem."},{"startTime":2458.185,"endTime":2460.005,"body":"But there's no evidence for this."},{"startTime":2460.705,"endTime":2467.355,"body":"The evidence as we have it suggests the reverse that the folk figure of the"},{"startTime":2467.355,"endTime":2474.005,"body":"great land spirit developed since the Middle Ages outta the character of the lamenting woman."},{"startTime":2474.945,"endTime":2481.491,"body":"It may well be that in the process she swept up the person I of"},{"startTime":2481.491,"endTime":2487.165,"body":"local hag spirits associated with wild places to produce a Pan Gaelic character."},{"startTime":2487.875,"endTime":2492.405,"body":"Nonetheless, that would still make her a post medieval creation."},{"startTime":2494.075,"endTime":2497.725,"body":"It's time to conclude if we're going to have space for questions."},{"startTime":2498.675,"endTime":2507.507,"body":"What I'm suggesting that should be obvious is that the Christian Middle Ages across Western"},{"startTime":2507.507,"endTime":2508.096,"body":"Europe and at all levels of society were capable of developing new superhuman figures which"},{"startTime":2508.096,"endTime":2519.285,"body":"operated right outside Christian cosmology."},{"startTime":2520.235,"endTime":2527.556,"body":"They did not do so in opposition to Christianity and were not associated with a"},{"startTime":2527.556,"endTime":2530.485,"body":"particular sect or faction or heresy."},{"startTime":2530.825,"endTime":2537.655,"body":"Though they are often thought to favor and teach folk magicians, they were part of"},{"startTime":2537.655,"endTime":2544.485,"body":"the thought world of people who are otherwise normal Christians for their place and time."},{"startTime":2545.225,"endTime":2551.864,"body":"It seems wrong to refer to such figures as pagan survivals, though they may have"},{"startTime":2551.864,"endTime":2552.307,"body":"drawn on ancient ideas and motifs, they appear to have been creations of the Christian"},{"startTime":2552.307,"endTime":2562.045,"body":"period and to have gone on being created."},{"startTime":2562.865,"endTime":2571.362,"body":"If my characterization of the is correct into early modern times, on the other hand,"},{"startTime":2571.362,"endTime":2571.929,"body":"to describe them as Christian unproblematically and straightforwardly is to miss the point of how"},{"startTime":2571.929,"endTime":2585.525,"body":"completely they functioned outside of and alongside the Christian world."},{"startTime":2585.525,"endTime":2595.47,"body":"Picture what all have in common is that they are expressions of a superhuman feminine,"},{"startTime":2595.47,"endTime":2596.133,"body":"which interacted with humans and was completely different in kind from the female saints integrated"},{"startTime":2596.133,"endTime":2607.405,"body":"into Christian theology."},{"startTime":2608.665,"endTime":2615.321,"body":"If all this is true, then there are two big concluding points to draw from"},{"startTime":2615.321,"endTime":2615.765,"body":"it."},{"startTime":2616.305,"endTime":2622.62,"body":"The first is that the European Middle Ages were an even more complex and exciting"},{"startTime":2622.62,"endTime":2624.725,"body":"place than we had thought."},{"startTime":2625.785,"endTime":2633.13,"body":"And second, that we need to find a new labeling system for such beings to"},{"startTime":2633.13,"endTime":2633.62,"body":"fit an increasingly post-Christian society for which the old polarizing terminology of pagan and Christian"},{"startTime":2633.62,"endTime":2642.925,"body":"May no longer be suitable."},{"startTime":2644.015,"endTime":2646.525,"body":"Thank you for your patience this autumn evening,"},{"startTime":2654.265,"endTime":2654.685,"body":"Ronald."},{"startTime":2654.685,"endTime":2655.085,"body":"Thank you."},{"startTime":2655.085,"endTime":2656.805,"body":"That was an absolutely compelling lecture."},{"startTime":2656.945,"endTime":2659.965,"body":"I'm sure I'm getting already getting some questions through here."},{"startTime":2660.345,"endTime":2663.632,"body":"If you've got questions, there's still time to send 'em through to Slido or we'll"},{"startTime":2663.632,"endTime":2665.605,"body":"take a few from the floor in a moment."},{"startTime":2665.865,"endTime":2670.008,"body":"I'm going to take advantage of having the microphone and jump in with a question"},{"startTime":2670.008,"endTime":2670.285,"body":"myself."},{"startTime":2670.785,"endTime":2675.535,"body":"So from what I understood of the argument, we are actually talking about something really"},{"startTime":2675.535,"endTime":2676.485,"body":"quite fascinating here."},{"startTime":2676.485,"endTime":2682.601,"body":"So it's not necessarily that these figures were sort of leftovers from a previous age"},{"startTime":2682.601,"endTime":2683.008,"body":"that hadn't quite died out yet, and they're not quite, however, just simply projections of"},{"startTime":2683.008,"endTime":2689.125,"body":"Christianity."},{"startTime":2689.305,"endTime":2693.645,"body":"So are they saying, so we are talking about something genuinely hybrid here, or"},{"startTime":2694.345,"endTime":2695.165,"body":"Not even hybrid?"},{"startTime":2695.425,"endTime":2695.965,"body":"Not even hybrid."},{"startTime":2696.065,"endTime":2701.285,"body":"Uh, they look like pagan goddesses, but they're generated within medieval Christian society."},{"startTime":2701.705,"endTime":2707.33,"body":"So is that something that is just growing out of Christian ideas of the divine"},{"startTime":2707.33,"endTime":2707.705,"body":"feminine or is it something actually expressing a lack in those ideas that, that they"},{"startTime":2707.705,"endTime":2715.205,"body":"can't, that that needs fulfilling somehow?"},{"startTime":2715.625,"endTime":2721.445,"body":"I'd suggest the latter because they are doing such different things right, from Christian saints."},{"startTime":2722.975,"endTime":2723.965,"body":"Right, okay."},{"startTime":2724.095,"endTime":2727.285,"body":"Shall we, um, let's take a question from the floor."},{"startTime":2727.485,"endTime":2732.37,"body":"I say I've got one here from John H is the superhuman female traveling the"},{"startTime":2732.37,"endTime":2734.325,"body":"night with her retinue of spirits."},{"startTime":2734.425,"endTime":2737.125,"body":"The origin of Mozart's Queen of the Night."},{"startTime":2738.505,"endTime":2739.125,"body":"Not really."},{"startTime":2739.465,"endTime":2745.49,"body":"Uh, Mozart's Queen of the Night is a mozartian figure, so as well as being"},{"startTime":2745.49,"endTime":2745.892,"body":"a genius in music, Mozart was quite capable of taking a fairy queen like figure"},{"startTime":2745.892,"endTime":2753.525,"body":"and making her his own."},{"startTime":2754.335,"endTime":2761.515,"body":"There may have been some Austrian memory of perch knocking around in the background there,"},{"startTime":2761.515,"endTime":2761.994,"body":"but perch is actually quite a scary figure who travels winter nights and Mozart's f"},{"startTime":2761.994,"endTime":2773.005,"body":"Mozart's Queen of the Night is quite unlike her."},{"startTime":2773.255,"endTime":2773.605,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2773.995,"endTime":2774.285,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":2774.585,"endTime":2775.925,"body":"Do you have any questions from the floor?"},{"startTime":2776.185,"endTime":2776.605,"body":"We do."},{"startTime":2776.975,"endTime":2777.645,"body":"We'll start over."},{"startTime":2779.295,"endTime":2779.725,"body":"Thank you."},{"startTime":2780.285,"endTime":2786.945,"body":"I just wondered why it was female figures that I've, uh, figured in the, um,"},{"startTime":2786.945,"endTime":2787.389,"body":"revival of the whatever it is, and the Christian religion is mainly patriarchal and, uh,"},{"startTime":2787.389,"endTime":2787.833,"body":"male figures predominate and uh, it's now we're trying to, anyway, I just wonder if"},{"startTime":2787.833,"endTime":2802.485,"body":"you'd expand upon that, please."},{"startTime":2803.725,"endTime":2808.969,"body":"I can't really expand a lot because I've only really just started thinking about all"},{"startTime":2808.969,"endTime":2813.165,"body":"this, and indeed it hasn't been a topic that's been considered before."},{"startTime":2813.985,"endTime":2822.187,"body":"Uh, if I am correct and these figures are generated within medieval Christian society, then"},{"startTime":2822.187,"endTime":2822.734,"body":"there's an even thicker screen between, uh, a lot of ordinary people and the essentially"},{"startTime":2822.734,"endTime":2834.765,"body":"patriarchal nature of Christian theology than we thought."},{"startTime":2834.765,"endTime":2841.445,"body":"But there's a pretty thick screen anyway, because medieval Christianity, teams with saints and around"},{"startTime":2841.445,"endTime":2841.891,"body":"half of them are female led by the queen of heaven herself, the Virgin Mary"},{"startTime":2841.891,"endTime":2842.336,"body":"and women in the Middle Ages are often especially devoted female saints, and it's to"},{"startTime":2842.336,"endTime":2857.925,"body":"saints shrines that people go on pilgrimage."},{"startTime":2858.315,"endTime":2861.685,"body":"It's to saints that people's local guilds are dedicated."},{"startTime":2862.225,"endTime":2868.848,"body":"So in many ways, it's rather like a political situation in which the Lord or"},{"startTime":2868.848,"endTime":2869.29,"body":"lady of your area are too high and far off or a peasant contact, but"},{"startTime":2869.29,"endTime":2869.731,"body":"you can get in touch with one of their staff and saints fulfill that kind"},{"startTime":2869.731,"endTime":2870.173,"body":"of function like ancient deities, presiding over and helping with gender matters, particular illnesses, farming"},{"startTime":2870.173,"endTime":2890.485,"body":"processes, manufacturers and regions."},{"startTime":2891.745,"endTime":2896.245,"body":"Do we know if there was an effort to present these figures in Christian, uh,"},{"startTime":2896.245,"endTime":2896.545,"body":"medieval Europe, was there an effort to present them as pagan, a bit of a"},{"startTime":2896.545,"endTime":2903.445,"body":"kind of, uh, forerunner of the invention of tradition?"},{"startTime":2903.465,"endTime":2904.125,"body":"For example,"},{"startTime":2905.555,"endTime":2912.464,"body":"They, they didn't really represent them as pagan, as simply as other, uh, as being"},{"startTime":2912.464,"endTime":2912.925,"body":"superstitions."},{"startTime":2913.435,"endTime":2915.765,"body":"They weren't terribly interested in their origins."},{"startTime":2916.075,"endTime":2919.616,"body":"They're just interested in the fact they were there and were working out what to"},{"startTime":2919.616,"endTime":2920.325,"body":"do about them."},{"startTime":2921.185,"endTime":2926.481,"body":"And, uh, instead of launching a crusade against them, they simply gave people app penance"},{"startTime":2926.481,"endTime":2926.835,"body":"of bread and water if they owned up to these beliefs, uh, for a relatively"},{"startTime":2926.835,"endTime":2932.485,"body":"short period."},{"startTime":2933.495,"endTime":2933.845,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2934.465,"endTime":2940.038,"body":"Um, a question here, and I I'll apologize for my terrible attempt at pronouncing this,"},{"startTime":2940.038,"endTime":2944.125,"body":"but we'll give it a go, is be Cynthia, be Cynthia."},{"startTime":2944.475,"endTime":2945.285,"body":"Does that sound right?"},{"startTime":2945.585,"endTime":2950.805,"body":"Bea, Cynthia, the mother goddess in any way related to these pagan goddesses,"},{"startTime":2951.485,"endTime":2959.073,"body":"I can't find a link any more than I can with Diana ti Pon Odin,"},{"startTime":2959.073,"endTime":2960.085,"body":"et cetera."},{"startTime":2960.945,"endTime":2961.405,"body":"No link."},{"startTime":2962.105,"endTime":2969.286,"body":"Um, please, could you comment on the apathic witch marks, particularly in rural communities and"},{"startTime":2969.286,"endTime":2969.765,"body":"caves?"},{"startTime":2969.895,"endTime":2972.845,"body":"Might these be appeals to goddesses or fairies?"},{"startTime":2973.545,"endTime":2974.045,"body":"Not really."},{"startTime":2974.265,"endTime":2978.371,"body":"We, we know a lot more about these now than we did even 20 years"},{"startTime":2978.371,"endTime":2978.645,"body":"ago."},{"startTime":2978.645,"endTime":2984.783,"body":"There's been a huge amount of recent research, and they are called witch marks in,"},{"startTime":2984.783,"endTime":2985.192,"body":"in a way that a lot of scholars find unhelpful, uh, because they're not made"},{"startTime":2985.192,"endTime":2994.605,"body":"by witches and they're probably not made against witches."},{"startTime":2995.035,"endTime":3000.426,"body":"They are particular designs that are thought to be effective in repelling evil spirits, uh,"},{"startTime":3000.426,"endTime":3000.785,"body":"of the kind that, and I'm not joking, might literally come under your front door"},{"startTime":3000.785,"endTime":3001.145,"body":"or down your chimney or through a window, which is why the symbols are placed"},{"startTime":3001.145,"endTime":3013.725,"body":"around these, uh, aetate to guard them."},{"startTime":3014.265,"endTime":3020.652,"body":"Uh, they particularly boom after the reformation when the protective magic of the old church,"},{"startTime":3020.652,"endTime":3021.078,"body":"like the holy water and consecrated candles was abolished, and so people were thrown back"},{"startTime":3021.078,"endTime":3031.725,"body":"on their own defenses, but they sometimes appear in medieval churches."},{"startTime":3032.425,"endTime":3039.631,"body":"My absolute favorite here is, uh, a church in, uh, rural Suffolk, which, uh, has,"},{"startTime":3039.631,"endTime":3040.112,"body":"uh, a an amazingly carved grinning figure of a demon with a pentagram, which was"},{"startTime":3040.112,"endTime":3053.085,"body":"one of the symbols used to ward off demons carved right across it."},{"startTime":3053.635,"endTime":3054.165,"body":"Where's that?"},{"startTime":3054.165,"endTime":3059.805,"body":"So this, that, this is a demon being stomped by one of these protective symbols."},{"startTime":3059.935,"endTime":3062.005,"body":"Whereabout, whereabouts in Suffolk is that?"},{"startTime":3062.195,"endTime":3068.045,"body":"It's in one of the parish churches there, uh, it's occasionally appears in programs, but"},{"startTime":3068.045,"endTime":3071.165,"body":"I I'm a little cautious about naming it"},{"startTime":3071.685,"endTime":3073.005,"body":"'cause we'll all go immediately that"},{"startTime":3073.025,"endTime":3075.765,"body":"Yes, \u003claugh\u003e, uh, and, and it's, it's, uh, the"},{"startTime":3075.765,"endTime":3077.165,"body":"Vicar won't know what to do on Sunday."},{"startTime":3077.185,"endTime":3077.405,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":3077.405,"endTime":3079.205,"body":"These places are under a lot of pressure already."},{"startTime":3079.715,"endTime":3080.005,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":3080.745,"endTime":3083.045,"body":"Um, well there more questions from the floor."},{"startTime":3083.565,"endTime":3085.405,"body":"I think there was ah, one over here."},{"startTime":3087.855,"endTime":3088.925,"body":"Thank, thank you very much."},{"startTime":3089.105,"endTime":3094.29,"body":"Um, professor Hilton, I wonder if you could just say a little bit more about"},{"startTime":3094.29,"endTime":3094.636,"body":"whether these figures were primarily seen as kind of forms of entertainment or whether they"},{"startTime":3094.636,"endTime":3094.982,"body":"actually had some deeper symbolic significance for the people who were listening to them, uh,"},{"startTime":3094.982,"endTime":3106.045,"body":"and so forth with"},{"startTime":3106.365,"endTime":3106.485,"body":"Pleasure."},{"startTime":3106.795,"endTime":3109.365,"body":"They're definitely not forms of entertainment."},{"startTime":3109.915,"endTime":3115.005,"body":"They're taken really seriously by the people who professed belief in them."},{"startTime":3115.745,"endTime":3122.501,"body":"And in many ways what they do for those who contact them is confer prestige"},{"startTime":3122.501,"endTime":3127.005,"body":"in a community in which they don't normally possess it."},{"startTime":3127.545,"endTime":3133.32,"body":"Uh, those who claim to travel with the Lady of the Night, those who claim"},{"startTime":3133.32,"endTime":3133.705,"body":"to be contacted by the Fairy Queen claim to get special privileges as a result,"},{"startTime":3133.705,"endTime":3141.405,"body":"insights into the cosmos magical powers."},{"startTime":3141.865,"endTime":3147.407,"body":"And that gives them status in their communities, uh, because they tend to be poor"},{"startTime":3147.407,"endTime":3148.885,"body":"people, especially poor women."},{"startTime":3150.045,"endTime":3156.397,"body":"And as long as they don't push it too far and get in trouble with"},{"startTime":3156.397,"endTime":3156.821,"body":"the authorities, uh, they very often make, uh, quite a prestigious and well regarded new"},{"startTime":3156.821,"endTime":3166.985,"body":"role for themselves in the communities in which they operate."},{"startTime":3169.165,"endTime":3172.747,"body":"So you have a great comment here from Mary who says, thanks for this very"},{"startTime":3172.747,"endTime":3173.225,"body":"interesting lecture."},{"startTime":3174.045,"endTime":3179.566,"body":"It seems that overcoming the categories, pagan and Christian would help to disentangle some of"},{"startTime":3179.566,"endTime":3179.935,"body":"the popular assumptions about historical figures and situations that are indeed much more complex than"},{"startTime":3179.935,"endTime":3185.825,"body":"text suggests."},{"startTime":3186.345,"endTime":3189.625,"body":"I think that, um, very much is in sympathy with what you've been saying."},{"startTime":3189.805,"endTime":3190.025,"body":"Yes,"},{"startTime":3190.125,"endTime":3190.345,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":3190.345,"endTime":3190.545,"body":"Here,"},{"startTime":3190.545,"endTime":3191.425,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"startTime":3191.425,"endTime":3191.865,"body":"Here, here."},{"startTime":3192.285,"endTime":3195.945,"body":"Um, okay, let's go to, uh, another question."},{"startTime":3196.415,"endTime":3202.425,"body":"What evidence is there of Christian power figures wiping out any trace of pagan goddesses?"},{"startTime":3203.165,"endTime":3208.885,"body":"Um, certainly they wiped out pagan goddesses at the beginning by destroying their temples and"},{"startTime":3208.885,"endTime":3214.605,"body":"shrines along with the rest of the apparatus of ancient paganism in the Middle Ages."},{"startTime":3215.915,"endTime":3221.952,"body":"They, they don't seem to have paid very much attention to the fairy queen, although"},{"startTime":3221.952,"endTime":3222.355,"body":"when people try to earn money by claiming to work magic learn from the fairy"},{"startTime":3222.355,"endTime":3230.405,"body":"queen, the authorities get rather strict."},{"startTime":3230.945,"endTime":3232.965,"body":"But, you know, there, there are no executions."},{"startTime":3233.345,"endTime":3238.704,"body":"Uh, they are simply told to knock it off and given a, a fine or"},{"startTime":3238.704,"endTime":3241.205,"body":"more, usually just a penance in church."},{"startTime":3241.945,"endTime":3244.405,"body":"So it's interesting, you've mentioned this a couple of times now."},{"startTime":3244.405,"endTime":3247.245,"body":"There seems to be quite a lot of tolerance for this in, in many"},{"startTime":3247.515,"endTime":3248.005,"body":"Society."},{"startTime":3248.005,"endTime":3248.445,"body":"There is, yes."},{"startTime":3248.505,"endTime":3255.352,"body":"Uh, the Lady of the Night is forbidden in, uh, all sorts of handbooks dished"},{"startTime":3255.352,"endTime":3259.005,"body":"out to parish priests and people taking confession."},{"startTime":3259.505,"endTime":3265.205,"body":"Uh, and people who express belief in them, especially those who argue about it, are"},{"startTime":3265.205,"endTime":3267.485,"body":"to be punished with a penance."},{"startTime":3267.945,"endTime":3272.238,"body":"But as I say, the penance given for most of the Middle Ages is relatively"},{"startTime":3272.238,"endTime":3272.525,"body":"light."},{"startTime":3272.965,"endTime":3279.385,"body":"I mean, there are loads of offenses in the handbooks and compared with most, the"},{"startTime":3279.385,"endTime":3281.525,"body":"penalty awarded is pretty skimpy."},{"startTime":3282.425,"endTime":3287.467,"body":"What's the chance that the Diana figure of the Middle Ages did create lingering Italian"},{"startTime":3287.467,"endTime":3291.165,"body":"folk beliefs that Charles Leland compiled or interpreted for our radio?"},{"startTime":3291.545,"endTime":3295.953,"body":"And similarly, I would add to that, obviously in the traditions of things like Comedi"},{"startTime":3295.953,"endTime":3296.247,"body":"Delate, we see those sorts of supernatural figures coming through again and then through Ced"},{"startTime":3296.247,"endTime":3302.125,"body":"delate into Shakespeare and things like"},{"startTime":3302.125,"endTime":3302.205,"body":"That."},{"startTime":3302.525,"endTime":3308.705,"body":"I think the Cmed delate, uh, the, uh, the famous Italian theater, the earlier modern"},{"startTime":3308.705,"endTime":3309.117,"body":"period, which was hugely influential everywhere, uh, did a, did draw on Italian folklore, but"},{"startTime":3309.117,"endTime":3319.005,"body":"also more particularly on medieval literary tradition for its characters."},{"startTime":3319.505,"endTime":3326.859,"body":"But I think that, uh, the questioner referred to Charles Godfrey Leland's 1899 Text Raia,"},{"startTime":3326.859,"endTime":3327.349,"body":"which Leland fought, was or claimed to be the book of spells and, and beliefs"},{"startTime":3327.349,"endTime":3337.645,"body":"of a live Italian pagan witch cult."},{"startTime":3338.345,"endTime":3345.873,"body":"No research has managed to identify such an actual cult, but the figures that, uh,"},{"startTime":3345.873,"endTime":3346.375,"body":"Leland's belief system he credited to pagan witches in involves are very much those of,"},{"startTime":3346.375,"endTime":3346.877,"body":"uh, the tradition of the Knight roving lady of early modern Italy, but filtered through"},{"startTime":3346.877,"endTime":3364.445,"body":"the perceptions of early modern Christian theologians."},{"startTime":3365.185,"endTime":3372.378,"body":"So she's twinned with and Mar Diana, the Lady of the Knight is twins with"},{"startTime":3372.378,"endTime":3372.857,"body":"Lucifer, who is Satan, and the daughter of Diana is Raia, who's her, who's the"},{"startTime":3372.857,"endTime":3385.805,"body":"other name for the Diana figure, not her daughter in the medieval text."},{"startTime":3386.265,"endTime":3393.553,"body":"So this is a garbled version of, uh, a Christian demonologist view of the original"},{"startTime":3393.553,"endTime":3394.525,"body":"legend there."},{"startTime":3394.525,"endTime":3397.245,"body":"There's real stuff there, but it's gone through two filters."},{"startTime":3397.895,"endTime":3398.245,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":3398.675,"endTime":3399.285,"body":"Fantastic."},{"startTime":3399.835,"endTime":3401.445,"body":"Well, Ronald, thank you."},{"startTime":3401.445,"endTime":3405.221,"body":"Thank you for the lecture and thank you for some brilliant answers to some really"},{"startTime":3405.221,"endTime":3405.725,"body":"great questions."},{"startTime":3405.725,"endTime":3406.645,"body":"Thank you guys for those."},{"startTime":3407.025,"endTime":3410.685,"body":"Um, please join me in thanking Ronald Hutton and goodnight to yourselves too."}]}