{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":5.195,"endTime":10.1,"body":"When I was asked to put together this sequence of lectures, one of the things"},{"startTime":10.1,"endTime":15.005,"body":"I wanted to do was to try to make sure the topics were were current."},{"startTime":15.305,"endTime":16.364,"body":"Yes, they were."},{"startTime":16.364,"endTime":17.285,"body":"Things within the news."},{"startTime":17.555,"endTime":21.525,"body":"Well, I have to say PFAS has not let me down."},{"startTime":21.665,"endTime":21.885,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":22.345,"endTime":26.641,"body":"And so I'm gonna touch on many of the new, new stories which have come"},{"startTime":26.641,"endTime":30.365,"body":"out in the last six or seven weeks, in fact, during this talk."},{"startTime":31.145,"endTime":36.922,"body":"And the reason I wanted to give a talk about PFAS, the per flu alcohol"},{"startTime":36.922,"endTime":37.307,"body":"substances, the Forever Chemicals, is because I, I, I call it living with the forever"},{"startTime":37.307,"endTime":43.085,"body":"chemicals."},{"startTime":43.325,"endTime":43.925,"body":"'cause guess what?"},{"startTime":44.385,"endTime":44.805,"body":"You are."},{"startTime":45.105,"endTime":45.325,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":45.905,"endTime":50.247,"body":"I'm looking around this room and every single one of you is wearing clothing which"},{"startTime":50.247,"endTime":51.405,"body":"has PFAS in it."},{"startTime":51.495,"endTime":58.145,"body":"Every single one of you will have PFAS Cosing through your veins in your tissues"},{"startTime":58.145,"endTime":60.805,"body":"as you sit within this room."},{"startTime":61.665,"endTime":67.736,"body":"And we are the first generations of humans since the 1940s, fifties, sixties onwards who"},{"startTime":67.736,"endTime":70.165,"body":"have been exposed to these chemicals."},{"startTime":70.865,"endTime":76.925,"body":"It is new, it is a new entity, a new exposure for the human race."},{"startTime":77.545,"endTime":82.75,"body":"So welcome to the great experiment we're all in and how this will impact on"},{"startTime":82.75,"endTime":83.445,"body":"our health."},{"startTime":84.825,"endTime":91.314,"body":"So I have shown this slide in each of the lectures that I have given"},{"startTime":91.314,"endTime":93.045,"body":"up to this point."},{"startTime":93.745,"endTime":98.109,"body":"The Gresham College lecture that you're listening to right now is giving you knowledge and"},{"startTime":98.109,"endTime":98.4,"body":"insight from one of the world's leading academic experts making it takes a lot of"},{"startTime":98.4,"endTime":102.765,"body":"time."},{"startTime":103.265,"endTime":106.433,"body":"But because we want to encourage a love of learning, we think it's well worth"},{"startTime":106.433,"endTime":106.645,"body":"it."},{"startTime":107.505,"endTime":109.205,"body":"We never make you pay for lectures."},{"startTime":109.485,"endTime":113.398,"body":"Although donations are needed, we, we ask in return is this, send a link to"},{"startTime":113.398,"endTime":115.485,"body":"this lecture to someone you think would benefit."},{"startTime":115.825,"endTime":119.741,"body":"And if you haven't already, click the follow or subscribe button from wherever you are"},{"startTime":119.741,"endTime":120.525,"body":"listening right now."},{"startTime":121.585,"endTime":123.165,"body":"Now let's get back to the lecture"},{"startTime":125.825,"endTime":132.984,"body":"And it's simply to make the following point, we have made a huge number of"},{"startTime":132.984,"endTime":136.325,"body":"novel chemical entities over the last century."},{"startTime":137.265,"endTime":143.743,"body":"And really the number I wanted to flag up here was there's a global inventory"},{"startTime":143.743,"endTime":144.175,"body":"of chemicals licensed for manufacture and it's around 360,000 chemicals and combinations of chemicals ready"},{"startTime":144.175,"endTime":151.085,"body":"for use."},{"startTime":152.265,"endTime":157.365,"body":"And within the EU probably we've licensed about a hundred thousand of them."},{"startTime":157.825,"endTime":162.605,"body":"And of those, about a quarter of them have been through reach."},{"startTime":162.785,"endTime":169.845,"body":"Now reach is the European registration of valuation authorization, restriction of chemicals act."},{"startTime":170.115,"endTime":170.925,"body":"It's the law."},{"startTime":170.985,"endTime":175.388,"body":"We have to try to make sure that we do not release dangerous chemicals into"},{"startTime":175.388,"endTime":179.205,"body":"our environment, which is bad for the environment or bad for our health."},{"startTime":179.785,"endTime":184.678,"body":"And it's quite obvious to see that we are 75% behind where we need to"},{"startTime":184.678,"endTime":185.005,"body":"be."},{"startTime":185.345,"endTime":188.765,"body":"And we are getting further away from it, not closer to it."},{"startTime":189.145,"endTime":192.485,"body":"We are making more novel entities than we can cope with."},{"startTime":193.545,"endTime":200.613,"body":"Now that said, we have this big chemical problem, chemical environment that we're all living"},{"startTime":200.613,"endTime":201.085,"body":"within."},{"startTime":201.915,"endTime":202.565,"body":"Just imagine."},{"startTime":202.725,"endTime":209.245,"body":"I was to tell you that within that cocktail we have a class of chemicals"},{"startTime":209.245,"endTime":209.679,"body":"now 15,000 different chemical entities as of yesterday, our check, the EPA registry, as I"},{"startTime":209.679,"endTime":222.285,"body":"was going through this talk, the sort of PFAS registry 10 years ago was 5,000."},{"startTime":222.315,"endTime":224.925,"body":"It's 6,000, it's now 15,000."},{"startTime":225.625,"endTime":233.405,"body":"And those chemicals are now ubiquitous across every single environment on the planet."},{"startTime":234.115,"endTime":237.205,"body":"They are absolutely everywhere."},{"startTime":238.145,"endTime":245.72,"body":"And if I was to tell you that they have extremely long half-lifes within the"},{"startTime":245.72,"endTime":252.285,"body":"environment, not forever, but a thousand years, 10,000 years, more or less counts."},{"startTime":252.785,"endTime":257.279,"body":"And if I was to tell you that when they entered your body, they resided"},{"startTime":257.279,"endTime":257.578,"body":"and accumulated within your body and built up within your tissues over time and had"},{"startTime":257.578,"endTime":257.878,"body":"a long half life and were not eliminated from your body very quickly, that would"},{"startTime":257.878,"endTime":267.765,"body":"be potentially a bit concerning."},{"startTime":269.145,"endTime":275.445,"body":"And if I was to tell you that they had potentially, and we'll talk a"},{"startTime":275.445,"endTime":275.865,"body":"little bit later on about what the word potentially means in all of this context,"},{"startTime":275.865,"endTime":276.285,"body":"being associated with a range of different cancers, testicular kidney cancer, breast cancer associated with"},{"startTime":276.285,"endTime":276.705,"body":"cholesterol, ulcerative colitis, suppression of antibody responses to vaccines in children, you might think that"},{"startTime":276.705,"endTime":300.645,"body":"we had something that we needed to worry about, certainly something which deserves our attention."},{"startTime":300.905,"endTime":306.605,"body":"And yet I would argue it's probably only been in the last 20 years and"},{"startTime":306.605,"endTime":306.985,"body":"probably really within the last five years, that we have become really interested in this"},{"startTime":306.985,"endTime":316.485,"body":"group of chemicals and they've become an area of absolute focus."},{"startTime":317.265,"endTime":322.885,"body":"Now the reason for that I think is because it's a nightmare of chemistry."},{"startTime":323.355,"endTime":323.645,"body":"Okay?"},{"startTime":324.225,"endTime":328.205,"body":"Uh, you'll see in a second the diversity, the range of names."},{"startTime":328.405,"endTime":330.725,"body":"I am a scientist, I'm also a dyslexic scientist."},{"startTime":331.235,"endTime":333.965,"body":"This is the worst lecture I can ever give."},{"startTime":334.025,"endTime":334.245,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":334.715,"endTime":341.725,"body":"Basically PFAS science is like number plates dancing in front of your eyes."},{"startTime":341.725,"endTime":342.405,"body":"Just be prepared."},{"startTime":342.545,"endTime":346.605,"body":"I'm gonna mispronounce everything, get the letters completely in the wrong order."},{"startTime":347.185,"endTime":349.365,"body":"That's your, I'm bringing your head and my hand up."},{"startTime":349.945,"endTime":354.076,"body":"One of the reasons I think, and I think there are two reasons why PFAS"},{"startTime":354.076,"endTime":356.005,"body":"suddenly began to grab the public imagination."},{"startTime":356.425,"endTime":360.285,"body":"And one is that somebody came along and simplified."},{"startTime":360.285,"endTime":369.351,"body":"It came up with the term, and I still think this is kind of amazing"},{"startTime":369.351,"endTime":376.605,"body":"Forever Chemicals was coined in an Washington Post opinion piece in 2018."},{"startTime":377.865,"endTime":378.085,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":378.745,"endTime":382.445,"body":"That's when this word, this phrase entered our language."},{"startTime":382.705,"endTime":388.418,"body":"And it's kind of a brilliant catchall word to explain the fact that we are"},{"startTime":388.418,"endTime":388.799,"body":"making chemicals which enter, enter environment which persist, which are resistance to chemical and enzymatic"},{"startTime":388.799,"endTime":399.085,"body":"degradation and which we will be living with for a very long time."},{"startTime":399.185,"endTime":403.226,"body":"In fact, one of the stories of PFAS is that we have stopped producing some"},{"startTime":403.226,"endTime":403.765,"body":"of them."},{"startTime":404.345,"endTime":408.013,"body":"The burden we are now living with is what was released over the 50 years"},{"startTime":408.013,"endTime":409.725,"body":"before we began to phase them out."},{"startTime":410.665,"endTime":418.126,"body":"And so Joseph Allen's very cleverly switched the debate by focusing on the lifetime of"},{"startTime":418.126,"endTime":418.623,"body":"these chemicals as a group and not getting lost in the alphabet soup of PFAS"},{"startTime":418.623,"endTime":426.085,"body":"classifications."},{"startTime":426.825,"endTime":429.685,"body":"Now I'm gonna keep this really quite straightforward."},{"startTime":429.905,"endTime":430.125,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":431.285,"endTime":434.925,"body":"PFAS per polyflor alcohol substances."},{"startTime":435.825,"endTime":442.56,"body":"The two which have been studied the most, the two we know are the most"},{"startTime":442.56,"endTime":443.009,"body":"about of the 15,000, most of which we don't know very much about are polyflor"},{"startTime":443.009,"endTime":454.685,"body":"octane acid, which I'm gonna call PFOA hopefully most of the time."},{"startTime":455.345,"endTime":461.738,"body":"And per Fluor octane snic acid PFAS, which I'm much happier, I might get right"},{"startTime":461.738,"endTime":462.165,"body":"now."},{"startTime":462.165,"endTime":471.25,"body":"Those chemicals were the predominant PFAS used in manufacturing from about the 1950s through to"},{"startTime":471.25,"endTime":474.885,"body":"around the 1980s, 1990s in 2000."},{"startTime":475.305,"endTime":482.086,"body":"And we find out why industry in the United States and globally voluntary, voluntarily, as"},{"startTime":482.086,"endTime":482.538,"body":"voluntarily as industry ever does, decided to phase out those two compounds because of concerns"},{"startTime":482.538,"endTime":492.485,"body":"about the impact on the environment and health."},{"startTime":493.345,"endTime":497.581,"body":"And beneath it I have Gen X and Gen X doesn't refer to people of"},{"startTime":497.581,"endTime":500.405,"body":"my vintage, you know, sort of 65 through to 1980."},{"startTime":500.675,"endTime":506.285,"body":"This is the new generation of compounds which came after PFAS."},{"startTime":506.585,"endTime":509.125,"body":"And here I think is a really important point."},{"startTime":510.065,"endTime":516.455,"body":"We regulated out chemicals which were known to cause harm and we replaced them with"},{"startTime":516.455,"endTime":522.845,"body":"a new classification and group of chemicals which were essentially really very, very, very similar."},{"startTime":523.975,"endTime":530.005,"body":"Which we didn't regulate 'cause nobody knew whether they were going to cause harm yet."},{"startTime":531.265,"endTime":537.727,"body":"So there's a bit of a story here about innovating new chemicals to avoid regulation,"},{"startTime":537.727,"endTime":541.605,"body":"I suppose, to innovating new chemicals which are safe."},{"startTime":542.385,"endTime":546.485,"body":"And we'll see exactly what the consequence of that has been."},{"startTime":547.905,"endTime":554.742,"body":"Now the reason that these chemicals occurred, and I like I gave a talk, it"},{"startTime":554.742,"endTime":558.845,"body":"must've been about six weeks ago on, on microplastics."},{"startTime":558.845,"endTime":559.005,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":559.005,"endTime":562.928,"body":"And I made the observation, the microplastics, it all happened in the last three score"},{"startTime":562.928,"endTime":565.805,"body":"years and 10, it's the same story here with with PFAS."},{"startTime":565.805,"endTime":567.845,"body":"It's the same sort of tape timeline."},{"startTime":567.845,"endTime":571.245,"body":"And again, it happens as many things happen with a bit of an accident."},{"startTime":571.555,"endTime":578.789,"body":"There's Roy j Plunkett, a 27-year-old chemist who makes a mistake doing refrigeration gas science"},{"startTime":578.789,"endTime":582.165,"body":"and accidentally makes the early Teflon you."},{"startTime":582.165,"endTime":583.925,"body":"So this is how it all sort of kicks off."},{"startTime":584.505,"endTime":589.045,"body":"So day number one is 1938."},{"startTime":590.265,"endTime":593.565,"body":"And then you have these very, very useful structures."},{"startTime":593.565,"endTime":597.725,"body":"We have a carbon backbone where the hydrogen has been substituted with s fluorine."},{"startTime":597.725,"endTime":598.485,"body":"So we have fluorine."},{"startTime":598.485,"endTime":602.165,"body":"So we have carbon fluorine bonds, which are incredibly strong single bonds."},{"startTime":602.795,"endTime":609.854,"body":"Some of the strongest single bonds you can get very firmly, uh, resistant, resistant to"},{"startTime":609.854,"endTime":610.325,"body":"degradation."},{"startTime":611.925,"endTime":617.325,"body":"Actually quite good at sort of opposing grease, pushing away moisture."},{"startTime":617.945,"endTime":624.565,"body":"So you have these really tough new molecules which do some fantastically useful things."},{"startTime":625.505,"endTime":630.92,"body":"So here we have a molecule which can be used and can be used to"},{"startTime":630.92,"endTime":632.725,"body":"manufacture things with particular uses."},{"startTime":633.385,"endTime":635.845,"body":"Now that's a kind of prototypical structure."},{"startTime":636.635,"endTime":639.125,"body":"Then we begin to see how they begin to branch out."},{"startTime":639.825,"endTime":643.365,"body":"So at the top we have pofa and we have pofa."},{"startTime":643.825,"endTime":649.12,"body":"And then beneath that we have different forms of PFAS, which either have different sort"},{"startTime":649.12,"endTime":650.885,"body":"of groupings added to them."},{"startTime":651.215,"endTime":654.485,"body":"Don't worry too much, I'm just showing a lot of stuff is coming."},{"startTime":655.025,"endTime":659.496,"body":"And then it keeps on coming and it keeps on coming and it keeps on"},{"startTime":659.496,"endTime":661.285,"body":"coming and it keeps on coming."},{"startTime":662.585,"endTime":665.525,"body":"The forever chemicals, that's what we are going to call them."},{"startTime":665.785,"endTime":670.402,"body":"And we're gonna focus on two of them and then only towards the end reflect"},{"startTime":670.402,"endTime":674.405,"body":"on what happened with the new generation of materials when they came through."},{"startTime":675.785,"endTime":681.685,"body":"But they are everywhere because they are so incredibly useful."},{"startTime":682.355,"endTime":685.965,"body":"They're in your non-stick pots and pans."},{"startTime":686.595,"endTime":691.805,"body":"They are in everything which is grease resistance in your little styrofoam."},{"startTime":692.315,"endTime":697.525,"body":"Sort of like burger boxes in your pizza boxes in your takeouts."},{"startTime":697.715,"endTime":705.24,"body":"They will be absolutely, definitely lined with PFAS in all your stain resistant clothing in"},{"startTime":705.24,"endTime":712.765,"body":"all of your outdoor clothing, which is water and grease resistant in pesticides in cosmetics."},{"startTime":713.085,"endTime":718.447,"body":"I always find this bizarrely for reasons which I've never understood in dental floss, go"},{"startTime":718.447,"endTime":718.805,"body":"figure."},{"startTime":719.465,"endTime":727.081,"body":"Um, in paints, in microwave, cock porn bands, in firefighting foams in personal care products,"},{"startTime":727.081,"endTime":727.588,"body":"they are absolutely everywhere because PFAS gave that unique capacity to actually perform a useful"},{"startTime":727.588,"endTime":735.205,"body":"function."},{"startTime":735.665,"endTime":740.933,"body":"And it was invented at the time when I think chemistry was having its golden"},{"startTime":740.933,"endTime":741.285,"body":"day."},{"startTime":741.385,"endTime":741.605,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":741.795,"endTime":749.034,"body":"When chemistry post-war was launching and doing exciting things to make everybody's lifes easier than"},{"startTime":749.034,"endTime":750.965,"body":"they had been before."},{"startTime":751.625,"endTime":757.619,"body":"And so this all got tied up with this concept of better living through chemistry"},{"startTime":757.619,"endTime":758.019,"body":"and somehow in this kind of cell, the consequences or a more holistic view of"},{"startTime":758.019,"endTime":758.419,"body":"what these chemicals might do in the long term, not in the now as they"},{"startTime":758.419,"endTime":775.205,"body":"were assisting us of our daily lives, but course their whole lifecycle was lost."},{"startTime":775.945,"endTime":782.259,"body":"And PFAS is a bit of a normality tale about exactly how that sort of"},{"startTime":782.259,"endTime":782.68,"body":"view of chemicals is a great commercial sort of and lifestyle and time-saving entity perhaps"},{"startTime":782.68,"endTime":793.205,"body":"has caused us more problems downstream than we're aware of now."},{"startTime":794.425,"endTime":797.085,"body":"We have all this good stuff so far."},{"startTime":797.265,"endTime":797.485,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":797.515,"endTime":797.805,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":798.155,"endTime":802.085,"body":"Certainly it's much easier now to clean our pots and pans."},{"startTime":802.105,"endTime":803.725,"body":"Yes, it's a much easier world."},{"startTime":803.725,"endTime":808.405,"body":"It's straightforward to stay dry and and stain free."},{"startTime":810.265,"endTime":813.524,"body":"And we know that the Forever Chemicals has come along and that's a name when"},{"startTime":813.524,"endTime":815.045,"body":"people have got this into their head."},{"startTime":815.425,"endTime":822.415,"body":"But the other thing which I think really pushed PFAS into the public imagination and"},{"startTime":822.415,"endTime":829.405,"body":"made people realize that perhaps it wasn't simply a good news story, was this story."},{"startTime":831.025,"endTime":839.525,"body":"So DuPont both gave us Teflon and DuPont also gave us the evidence that we"},{"startTime":839.525,"endTime":842.925,"body":"needed to be concerned about PFAS."},{"startTime":843.865,"endTime":848.917,"body":"And this is Robert Billett, who is a lawyer who they famously took up a"},{"startTime":848.917,"endTime":849.254,"body":"class action by a community, um, in, and I always get the name of the"},{"startTime":849.254,"endTime":849.591,"body":"place wrong, but I think it's Parker's Parker's, it will come to me in a"},{"startTime":849.591,"endTime":861.045,"body":"second Parker's bill, something like that."},{"startTime":861.165,"endTime":868.743,"body":"Anyway, it'll come back Western Virginia where there was a big DuPont factory situated next"},{"startTime":868.743,"endTime":870.765,"body":"to the Ohio River."},{"startTime":871.875,"endTime":877.08,"body":"Over a long period of time, huge amount of waste from Teflon manufacturing had been"},{"startTime":877.08,"endTime":881.245,"body":"disposed of in the land, lots of effluent and entered the rivers."},{"startTime":881.675,"endTime":885.125,"body":"Lots of materials had entered the sort of air."},{"startTime":886.345,"endTime":891.805,"body":"And he was initially approached by a farmer because all his livestock was dying."},{"startTime":892.865,"endTime":898.627,"body":"And through those conversations he began to realize that there were lots of people with"},{"startTime":898.627,"endTime":902.085,"body":"health problems within the communities surrounding the DuPont plant."},{"startTime":902.585,"endTime":908.077,"body":"And he began to represent the members of the community in a class action against"},{"startTime":908.077,"endTime":908.444,"body":"DuPont, during which he got access to some of the very, very sort of private"},{"startTime":908.444,"endTime":917.965,"body":"internal documents on their own research on PFAS, which they'd been undertaking."},{"startTime":918.745,"endTime":926.514,"body":"And it's an interesting tale because it's quite clearly the case that in the 1960s,"},{"startTime":926.514,"endTime":927.032,"body":"DuPont and many other and certainly 3M definitely knew that at high concentrations, P-F-A-S-P-F-A-S and"},{"startTime":927.032,"endTime":927.55,"body":"PF OA were toxic in classical animal experimentations that was known in the 1970s that"},{"startTime":927.55,"endTime":928.068,"body":"they actually measured the concentrations of PFAS and compounds within the blood of workers within"},{"startTime":928.068,"endTime":954.485,"body":"the actual factories and demonstrated that it was high."},{"startTime":954.705,"endTime":954.925,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":955.665,"endTime":958.525,"body":"So they already knew there was an exposure in the workers."},{"startTime":958.715,"endTime":965.856,"body":"They already knew there was information about potential toxic effects, but they didn't do very"},{"startTime":965.856,"endTime":967.285,"body":"much about it."},{"startTime":967.285,"endTime":969.885,"body":"And I don't wanna dwell on this for a number of reasons."},{"startTime":970.245,"endTime":975.256,"body":"A 'cause there are many books and many articles which have been written about this"},{"startTime":975.256,"endTime":975.925,"body":"particular case."},{"startTime":976.505,"endTime":981.205,"body":"And B, the legalities of speaking about it are quite complicated and need to be"},{"startTime":981.205,"endTime":983.085,"body":"handled in a very nuanced fashion."},{"startTime":984.105,"endTime":989.715,"body":"But the reality is that the people living in the vicinity of the factory clearly"},{"startTime":989.715,"endTime":995.325,"body":"didn't know that the factory was producing chemicals which are potentially dangerous to human health."},{"startTime":995.665,"endTime":996.605,"body":"Wasn't appreciated."},{"startTime":997.495,"endTime":1004.005,"body":"There were clusters of leukemia cases, there were clusters of testicular cancer cases."},{"startTime":1005.245,"endTime":1006.445,"body":"Questions were being asked."},{"startTime":1006.905,"endTime":1012.005,"body":"And so Rob Billett managed to get a case and take it all the way"},{"startTime":1012.005,"endTime":1012.685,"body":"through, okay."},{"startTime":1012.945,"endTime":1013.925,"body":"And win the case."},{"startTime":1013.925,"endTime":1020.393,"body":"And you at the end, I mean the settlement is, I think it was about"},{"startTime":1020.393,"endTime":1020.824,"body":"555 million US dollars to about 3,500 plaintiffs who had been affected as a consequence"},{"startTime":1020.824,"endTime":1027.723,"body":"of this."},{"startTime":1027.885,"endTime":1030.685,"body":"A big potential payout."},{"startTime":1031.025,"endTime":1037.831,"body":"But more importantly, it led to this realization that PFAS had a negative impact on"},{"startTime":1037.831,"endTime":1038.285,"body":"health."},{"startTime":1039.505,"endTime":1042.325,"body":"And then that story was interesting."},{"startTime":1042.665,"endTime":1046.336,"body":"And this is a story which is again in the New York Post and you"},{"startTime":1046.336,"endTime":1047.805,"body":"can go and check that yourself."},{"startTime":1048.705,"endTime":1051.685,"body":"It took off because they made it into a film."},{"startTime":1052.385,"endTime":1057.869,"body":"So dark waters with Ruffo allowed people first, first time I think people went to"},{"startTime":1057.869,"endTime":1058.235,"body":"the cinema and heard the word PFAS and Forever Chemicals being mentioned at the same"},{"startTime":1058.235,"endTime":1066.645,"body":"time as the term was beginning to be christened."},{"startTime":1066.645,"endTime":1070.565,"body":"And then people began to realize there was something going on here."},{"startTime":1071.545,"endTime":1074.405,"body":"So we have an alignment of things occurring."},{"startTime":1074.905,"endTime":1078.125,"body":"The topic is getting hot, it's entering public consciousness."},{"startTime":1078.585,"endTime":1084.405,"body":"And the science is getting kind of interesting because when I say that, it's everywhere."},{"startTime":1085.225,"endTime":1087.165,"body":"Oh, I mean, it's absolutely everywhere."},{"startTime":1087.675,"endTime":1087.965,"body":"Okay?"},{"startTime":1088.395,"endTime":1095.242,"body":"It's remarkable how 50 years of production of a chemical entity can disperse around the"},{"startTime":1095.242,"endTime":1097.525,"body":"entire planet in a blink."},{"startTime":1100.155,"endTime":1101.365,"body":"It's in our rain."},{"startTime":1102.145,"endTime":1107.56,"body":"In fact, the concentration of PFAS in rainwater, if it was coming out of your"},{"startTime":1107.56,"endTime":1109.365,"body":"tap, would be too high."},{"startTime":1110.705,"endTime":1111.925,"body":"That's an interesting one."},{"startTime":1112.635,"endTime":1119.702,"body":"It's actually in the melt waters of the glassier coming down from Everest through the"},{"startTime":1119.702,"endTime":1120.645,"body":"base caps."},{"startTime":1121.465,"endTime":1127.765,"body":"You can detect it within ice cores taken from the Antarctic ice sheets."},{"startTime":1128.745,"endTime":1133.447,"body":"You can see it in our rivers, in our seas, in our soils, in our"},{"startTime":1133.447,"endTime":1133.761,"body":"sediments, in the dust by the side of the street, in the particles which are"},{"startTime":1133.761,"endTime":1139.405,"body":"floating in the air."},{"startTime":1139.905,"endTime":1142.765,"body":"It is absolutely everywhere."},{"startTime":1143.195,"endTime":1147.525,"body":"This is a ubiquitous chemical entity in our environment."},{"startTime":1147.785,"endTime":1149.285,"body":"And it has just happened."},{"startTime":1151.605,"endTime":1154.885,"body":"I find it remarkable in a, in a blink of an eye."},{"startTime":1155.905,"endTime":1162.765,"body":"Now the next part of this, which suddenly becomes interesting is this."},{"startTime":1162.765,"endTime":1163.725,"body":"And this is a, this is a study."},{"startTime":1163.755,"endTime":1165.125,"body":"Look, it's 2001."},{"startTime":1165.125,"endTime":1167.805,"body":"So the case is going on with DuPont."},{"startTime":1168.195,"endTime":1173.67,"body":"This is the point at which the American industry is beginning to phase out P"},{"startTime":1173.67,"endTime":1174.765,"body":"thousand P four."},{"startTime":1175.585,"endTime":1180.071,"body":"And this is one of those wonderful studies where somebody does something which feels really"},{"startTime":1180.071,"endTime":1182.165,"body":"odd, but ends up being slightly brilliant."},{"startTime":1182.265,"endTime":1182.485,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1182.485,"endTime":1183.285,"body":"In its own way."},{"startTime":1184.105,"endTime":1191.055,"body":"So this is just a collection of blood and tissue samples from animals collected from"},{"startTime":1191.055,"endTime":1192.445,"body":"around the planet."},{"startTime":1192.665,"endTime":1199.881,"body":"Yes, penguins and seals from Antarctica, bald eagles from the great likes, river otters from"},{"startTime":1199.881,"endTime":1201.325,"body":"northeastern United States."},{"startTime":1202.035,"endTime":1210.299,"body":"Just to see whether these chemicals, which we know in the environment are accumulating within"},{"startTime":1210.299,"endTime":1213.605,"body":"the fauna of the planet earth."},{"startTime":1214.625,"endTime":1216.365,"body":"Now this is the first time this was done."},{"startTime":1216.745,"endTime":1218.685,"body":"And again here look, we have our two favorites."},{"startTime":1218.685,"endTime":1221.845,"body":"At the top we have PFAS at the top we have PFO at the bottom."},{"startTime":1222.225,"endTime":1225.605,"body":"And then we have some sulfated sort of derivatives."},{"startTime":1227.025,"endTime":1228.525,"body":"And this is kind of what they find."},{"startTime":1229.145,"endTime":1230.285,"body":"So let's look at the top."},{"startTime":1231.025,"endTime":1234.645,"body":"We have PFAS in ring, sealed ring seals."},{"startTime":1234.645,"endTime":1240.965,"body":"Look Baltic, the high B Canadian Arctic, the Norwegian Arctic, the Baltic."},{"startTime":1241.305,"endTime":1245.288,"body":"We keep on going down, keep on going down, keep on polar bears, in elastic"},{"startTime":1245.288,"endTime":1246.085,"body":"in the liver."},{"startTime":1246.185,"endTime":1252.925,"body":"We have really high concentrations in the bottom nose, dolphin high concentrations as well."},{"startTime":1253.985,"endTime":1261.91,"body":"So the PFAS within the environment has dispersed to the far north, to the far"},{"startTime":1261.91,"endTime":1262.438,"body":"south, away from any site of production, away from any site of overt use and"},{"startTime":1262.438,"endTime":1273.005,"body":"is accumulating within the food chain."},{"startTime":1273.705,"endTime":1280.725,"body":"The concentrations seemingly being higher in animals which are clearly higher in the trophic scale."},{"startTime":1285.465,"endTime":1287.605,"body":"And then there are other studies which was going to come out."},{"startTime":1287.685,"endTime":1292.147,"body":"I I, I kind of like the studies from Scandinavia because Scandinavia is nice and"},{"startTime":1292.147,"endTime":1292.445,"body":"clean."},{"startTime":1292.465,"endTime":1299.008,"body":"So these are studies from Norway and Finland and Sweden and the Pharaoh Islands and"},{"startTime":1299.008,"endTime":1299.445,"body":"Iceland."},{"startTime":1300.185,"endTime":1303.565,"body":"And here we just have a few PFAS."},{"startTime":1303.565,"endTime":1305.005,"body":"Here again, here we have P oa."},{"startTime":1305.115,"endTime":1306.765,"body":"Here we have PFAS."},{"startTime":1306.765,"endTime":1309.365,"body":"So just the rest of them are just there for interest."},{"startTime":1309.365,"endTime":1310.245,"body":"What do we have here?"},{"startTime":1310.305,"endTime":1313.605,"body":"But you can see we are measuring it in most of this sample."},{"startTime":1314.115,"endTime":1325.933,"body":"This is seawater, seawater, seawater, Finland seawater, Denmark seawater Iceland seawater, Finland Lake water, Norway,"},{"startTime":1325.933,"endTime":1333.025,"body":"river water, Iceland, Sweden, sewage effluent bang shoots up."},{"startTime":1333.445,"endTime":1337.521,"body":"And then over here, if you just check the scale, this goes from Naugh to"},{"startTime":1337.521,"endTime":1338.065,"body":"17 nanograms."},{"startTime":1338.375,"endTime":1340.505,"body":"This is now going from zero to 700."},{"startTime":1341.395,"endTime":1342.625,"body":"These are landfills."},{"startTime":1343.615,"endTime":1348.625,"body":"This is effluent coming outta the landfills again from sites."},{"startTime":1349.005,"endTime":1356.002,"body":"And so we can see that this material is within our water and it's leaching"},{"startTime":1356.002,"endTime":1356.469,"body":"out of landfill sites because actually the very things which make PFAS remarkably good at"},{"startTime":1356.469,"endTime":1356.935,"body":"repelling moisture and keeping grease at things make it really good at moving through environmental"},{"startTime":1356.935,"endTime":1370.465,"body":"compartments."},{"startTime":1370.885,"endTime":1372.345,"body":"So it moves quite freely."},{"startTime":1372.345,"endTime":1374.625,"body":"Yes, it can escape tremendously well."},{"startTime":1374.815,"endTime":1381.905,"body":"Okay, so it's in the water, it's in the soil, it's in the fish."},{"startTime":1384.415,"endTime":1389.625,"body":"This is Cod Sweden, flounder Norway."},{"startTime":1390.165,"endTime":1392.425,"body":"Go all the way down here to arctic char."},{"startTime":1393.005,"endTime":1396.865,"body":"We can see how it's accumulating in the marine fish."},{"startTime":1397.685,"endTime":1402.825,"body":"And over here we have marine mammals, gray seals."},{"startTime":1403.855,"endTime":1405.225,"body":"Here we have pilot whales."},{"startTime":1405.225,"endTime":1406.345,"body":"You can see the peaks."},{"startTime":1406.845,"endTime":1409.905,"body":"And here lower levels, we have the minky whale."},{"startTime":1410.365,"endTime":1416.873,"body":"So the toothed whale, which is eating the fish is accumulating the minky rail, which"},{"startTime":1416.873,"endTime":1420.345,"body":"is essentially a baline rail is not accumulating."},{"startTime":1420.365,"endTime":1422.825,"body":"So it's not getting that sort of trophic load."},{"startTime":1423.925,"endTime":1431.045,"body":"So it's bioaccumulation within the animals on the planet."},{"startTime":1434.145,"endTime":1437.605,"body":"And again, another paper did the same thing."},{"startTime":1438.045,"endTime":1443.791,"body":"PFOS here, PFAS zoo plankton, clams shrimps, arctic cord red fish all the way down"},{"startTime":1443.791,"endTime":1448.005,"body":"here to the beluga whale black lead kitty weight Galatia scales."},{"startTime":1448.005,"endTime":1451.677,"body":"So we're going through things which are small and absorbing all the way things to"},{"startTime":1451.677,"endTime":1451.922,"body":"things which eat, which then eat the, this is, you know, sort of like the"},{"startTime":1451.922,"endTime":1456.085,"body":"classic perfect trail."},{"startTime":1456.705,"endTime":1459.725,"body":"And this is the lovely graph which shows you how it all sits together."},{"startTime":1460.675,"endTime":1467.001,"body":"Here we have our PFAS and you can see it's accumulating troph within the animals"},{"startTime":1467.001,"endTime":1467.845,"body":"on bath."},{"startTime":1468.945,"endTime":1471.405,"body":"So this is around 2004."},{"startTime":1471.505,"endTime":1475.005,"body":"So by 2004, basically we know the cat's out of the bag."},{"startTime":1475.025,"endTime":1482.541,"body":"Yes, we know that PFAS is everywhere and we know that it's accumulating within animals"},{"startTime":1482.541,"endTime":1484.045,"body":"within our world."},{"startTime":1485.575,"endTime":1487.285,"body":"Which raises the next question."},{"startTime":1488.635,"endTime":1489.365,"body":"What about us?"},{"startTime":1490.835,"endTime":1494.325,"body":"Because we are just part of that cycle, aren't we?"},{"startTime":1494.945,"endTime":1497.605,"body":"You know, we've got industry making consumer goods."},{"startTime":1497.605,"endTime":1502.75,"body":"We know the consumer goods have PFASs and we know that that's being thrown into"},{"startTime":1502.75,"endTime":1503.093,"body":"landfill sites or burnt, which is going to release these materials or it's just entering"},{"startTime":1503.093,"endTime":1508.925,"body":"the environment passively."},{"startTime":1509.165,"endTime":1514.531,"body":"'cause there are certain issues with sort of like flame retirement farm, uh, foams that's"},{"startTime":1514.531,"endTime":1515.605,"body":"entering wild animals."},{"startTime":1515.675,"endTime":1518.765,"body":"It's also entering commercial farmed animals."},{"startTime":1519.225,"endTime":1523.445,"body":"And then right at the end, at that top of that trophic trail is us."},{"startTime":1524.185,"endTime":1526.805,"body":"Yes, that's us right at the end."},{"startTime":1527.345,"endTime":1535.59,"body":"So there's no reason there should have been no reason to believe that we would"},{"startTime":1535.59,"endTime":1536.14,"body":"not be full of PFAS to, and we are not all of us, about 98%"},{"startTime":1536.14,"endTime":1545.485,"body":"of US measurements."},{"startTime":1545.545,"endTime":1546.445,"body":"So what do we have here?"},{"startTime":1547.995,"endTime":1552.565,"body":"This is the American North American Health and Nutrition examination survey."},{"startTime":1552.715,"endTime":1553.645,"body":"It's a huge survey."},{"startTime":1553.715,"endTime":1554.005,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1554.005,"endTime":1560.936,"body":"So here they're taking blood measurements from around two and a half thousand people and"},{"startTime":1560.936,"endTime":1567.405,"body":"they've taken samples in 1999 to 2000 and they've taken samples 2000 feet, 2004."},{"startTime":1567.405,"endTime":1570.925,"body":"So that's before the ban of PFOS and pfoa."},{"startTime":1571.305,"endTime":1575.523,"body":"And after the ban of PF PFOS and pfoa though it wasn't really a complete"},{"startTime":1575.523,"endTime":1575.805,"body":"ban."},{"startTime":1576.585,"endTime":1584.368,"body":"And what we can see here are nine 12 to 1920 to 39 40 to"},{"startTime":1584.368,"endTime":1585.925,"body":"59 60 PFAS."},{"startTime":1586.265,"endTime":1588.965,"body":"And we can see, look, it's in everybody."},{"startTime":1590.785,"endTime":1593.525,"body":"And if we go across here pfoa, it's in everybody."},{"startTime":1594.145,"endTime":1600.085,"body":"And actually it falls between 1919 92,000 and 2003 in all cases."},{"startTime":1600.265,"endTime":1606.445,"body":"So from 29 to 19, from 28 to 18, from 33 to 22."},{"startTime":1607.145,"endTime":1609.685,"body":"So the ban has kind of worked."},{"startTime":1610.145,"endTime":1612.805,"body":"It seems as though the levels are beginning to fall down."},{"startTime":1612.825,"endTime":1614.845,"body":"But there are some interesting things in here as well."},{"startTime":1615.505,"endTime":1618.165,"body":"Men have higher concentrations of PFAS than women."},{"startTime":1618.745,"endTime":1622.685,"body":"Uh, poor ethnic groups seem to have higher concentrations."},{"startTime":1622.705,"endTime":1628.189,"body":"But nevertheless, what we are seeing is evidence that the PFAS, which has been released"},{"startTime":1628.189,"endTime":1631.845,"body":"into the environment, has made its way to us, okay?"},{"startTime":1632.345,"endTime":1641.68,"body":"For the first time in human history, that's and both interesting and worrying at the"},{"startTime":1641.68,"endTime":1642.925,"body":"same time."},{"startTime":1643.865,"endTime":1646.845,"body":"Now this survey is regular."},{"startTime":1647.985,"endTime":1649.965,"body":"So we can actually look at what has happened."},{"startTime":1651.185,"endTime":1656.914,"body":"So again, from 19 19 9 to 2000 all the way up to 2018 when"},{"startTime":1656.914,"endTime":1657.296,"body":"they took some time off for various reasons, the next wave and we can see"},{"startTime":1657.296,"endTime":1666.845,"body":"P-F-A-S-P four and you can see the concentrations are falling dramatically."},{"startTime":1668.715,"endTime":1675.582,"body":"What you can see here is what's happening to the new PFAS materials, which are"},{"startTime":1675.582,"endTime":1679.245,"body":"being introduced in the environments as alternative replacements."},{"startTime":1679.875,"endTime":1685.093,"body":"Because at this point they're not really all being measured in a way that we"},{"startTime":1685.093,"endTime":1686.485,"body":"can actually quantify them."},{"startTime":1686.985,"endTime":1688.565,"body":"So let's say those are going down."},{"startTime":1689.345,"endTime":1693.445,"body":"But there are big questions about what's going on with the replacement PFAS."},{"startTime":1693.745,"endTime":1696.725,"body":"Now this is interesting for a number of reasons."},{"startTime":1697.885,"endTime":1701.471,"body":"I myself study air pollution and I spend a lot of time trying to work"},{"startTime":1701.471,"endTime":1701.71,"body":"out how I work out, how much air pollution maybe you've been exposed to or"},{"startTime":1701.71,"endTime":1708.405,"body":"you've been exposed to using complicated models and it's a bit of a proxy."},{"startTime":1708.545,"endTime":1708.765,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1709.105,"endTime":1713.5,"body":"And I always sit there going, wouldn't it be great if I had an internal"},{"startTime":1713.5,"endTime":1715.845,"body":"biomarker of what you had been exposed to?"},{"startTime":1717.235,"endTime":1719.045,"body":"This is an internal biomarker."},{"startTime":1719.225,"endTime":1721.005,"body":"Yes, this is as good as it gets."},{"startTime":1721.645,"endTime":1723.245,"body":"I want to know what you've been exposed to."},{"startTime":1723.485,"endTime":1724.765,"body":"I can tell what you've been exposed to."},{"startTime":1724.765,"endTime":1728.798,"body":"We have a little caveat yes in that this doesn't tell me what you've been"},{"startTime":1728.798,"endTime":1729.605,"body":"exposed to today."},{"startTime":1730.195,"endTime":1735.859,"body":"Because the half life of PFAS in your body ranges from two to six years"},{"startTime":1735.859,"endTime":1738.125,"body":"depending on the nature of it."},{"startTime":1738.125,"endTime":1739.845,"body":"For the very new ones, it's a bit shorter."},{"startTime":1739.985,"endTime":1744.085,"body":"But this is kind of like a cumulative load within your body."},{"startTime":1744.945,"endTime":1750.395,"body":"Now if it was a going to work as a biomarker, it should pass the"},{"startTime":1750.395,"endTime":1751.485,"body":"common sense test."},{"startTime":1751.625,"endTime":1751.845,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1752.225,"endTime":1754.205,"body":"And this for me is the common sense test."},{"startTime":1754.475,"endTime":1760.045,"body":"Looking at PF OA and it's asking a simple question, who should have the highest"},{"startTime":1760.045,"endTime":1762.645,"body":"concentrations of PF OA in their blood?"},{"startTime":1762.855,"endTime":1763.525,"body":"Guess who?"},{"startTime":1763.755,"endTime":1764.605,"body":"It's always gonna be?"},{"startTime":1764.605,"endTime":1769.045,"body":"The person at the factory working on the factory floor manufacturing the stuff."},{"startTime":1769.105,"endTime":1770.725,"body":"Yes, they're at the top."},{"startTime":1771.105,"endTime":1771.325,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1771.545,"endTime":1774.085,"body":"So we can see they have the highest concentration."},{"startTime":1774.795,"endTime":1778.794,"body":"Then the people we'd be concerned with next would be people who live in communities"},{"startTime":1778.794,"endTime":1782.26,"body":"where we know there's already contamination in their watercourse or in the land."},{"startTime":1782.425,"endTime":1783.605,"body":"And that's in deep blue."},{"startTime":1783.605,"endTime":1786.325,"body":"And we can see the deep blue, they're quite high."},{"startTime":1786.945,"endTime":1790.965,"body":"And then the general US population in the light blue sort of bars."},{"startTime":1790.985,"endTime":1795.205,"body":"And we can see that's 1990 to 2000 and that's 1970 to 1980."},{"startTime":1795.465,"endTime":1797.205,"body":"And that's showing that downward trajectory."},{"startTime":1797.785,"endTime":1804.116,"body":"So as a biomarker, this seems to be working and it works for PFOA and"},{"startTime":1804.116,"endTime":1805.805,"body":"it works for PFOS."},{"startTime":1806.985,"endTime":1813.455,"body":"So this is useful because once you have this, we can begin to ask questions"},{"startTime":1813.455,"endTime":1819.925,"body":"about how these levels relate to how or to adverse effects within a given individual."},{"startTime":1820.105,"endTime":1823.045,"body":"Now this is still only looking at blood."},{"startTime":1823.905,"endTime":1829.355,"body":"And you know that's not gonna give you the whole story because once PFAS is"},{"startTime":1829.355,"endTime":1829.718,"body":"taken off with your body, it very rapidly binds to the circulating proteins within your"},{"startTime":1829.718,"endTime":1839.165,"body":"blood and then it redistributes to the solid organs in your body."},{"startTime":1840.185,"endTime":1849.129,"body":"And so you can actually see this, again, this is a study, it's 99 autopsy"},{"startTime":1849.129,"endTime":1856.285,"body":"samples taken from individuals and it's just brain, bone, kidney, liver, lung."},{"startTime":1856.995,"endTime":1858.605,"body":"Here we have a range of PFAS."},{"startTime":1858.605,"endTime":1861.645,"body":"The take home message is it's in every tissue."},{"startTime":1862.185,"endTime":1862.405,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1862.835,"endTime":1864.005,"body":"It's not just in the blood."},{"startTime":1864.225,"endTime":1866.005,"body":"It has gone everywhere."},{"startTime":1866.395,"endTime":1868.285,"body":"It's in all solid organs."},{"startTime":1869.195,"endTime":1869.765,"body":"Rich organ."},{"startTime":1869.825,"endTime":1875.045,"body":"It goes to, depends on the PFAS to a certain extent, but it is there."},{"startTime":1876.155,"endTime":1878.565,"body":"It's in the blood, it's in the tissues."},{"startTime":1879.145,"endTime":1880.485,"body":"Hay, it's even in your bones."},{"startTime":1880.945,"endTime":1881.165,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1881.545,"endTime":1883.525,"body":"As a kind of like an cumulative sink."},{"startTime":1884.795,"endTime":1892.923,"body":"Fine, then we can move on to the next thing which we might be concerned"},{"startTime":1892.923,"endTime":1893.465,"body":"of."},{"startTime":1893.465,"endTime":1904.053,"body":"If it's circulating in the mother's blood, would it pass with the placenta and reach"},{"startTime":1904.053,"endTime":1905.465,"body":"the fetus?"},{"startTime":1906.605,"endTime":1911.465,"body":"And the answer to that unfortunately is a very resounding yes."},{"startTime":1912.645,"endTime":1916.665,"body":"So this is, this is only from this year."},{"startTime":1917.365,"endTime":1924.515,"body":"It was an analysis of 40 independent studies which looked at cord blood concentrations of"},{"startTime":1924.515,"endTime":1925.945,"body":"PFAS in children."},{"startTime":1926.255,"endTime":1932.313,"body":"Many of the studies correlated the cord blood concentrations of PFAS with the maternal blood"},{"startTime":1932.313,"endTime":1935.545,"body":"levels and the relationship was really incredibly strong."},{"startTime":1935.765,"endTime":1939.865,"body":"So the mother's PAS burden was being transferred to the child."},{"startTime":1940.125,"endTime":1940.345,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1941.895,"endTime":1943.545,"body":"It's 30,000 blood samples."},{"startTime":1943.775,"endTime":1945.865,"body":"It's pretty robust when you pull it all together."},{"startTime":1945.965,"endTime":1946.185,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1946.845,"endTime":1954.931,"body":"So we now have a transgenerational transfer of a persistent chemical by accumulating within the"},{"startTime":1954.931,"endTime":1959.245,"body":"human body from the mother to the child."},{"startTime":1964.705,"endTime":1969.805,"body":"We can continue breastfeeding versus formula feeding."},{"startTime":1970.555,"endTime":1977.869,"body":"Clearly when you're breastfeeding you mobilize reserves from your body, including the stored PFAS within"},{"startTime":1977.869,"endTime":1978.845,"body":"your tissues."},{"startTime":1979.625,"endTime":1988.805,"body":"So breastfeeding is associated with transfer of stored PFAS from the mother to the child."},{"startTime":1989.225,"endTime":1995.165,"body":"And if that feels a bit strange, well here's a graph of a look."},{"startTime":1995.165,"endTime":1996.685,"body":"This is a, you don't need to look at this."},{"startTime":1996.875,"endTime":1999.485,"body":"Each of those sort of like it's a study."},{"startTime":1999.815,"endTime":2001.285,"body":"There are lots of studies there."},{"startTime":2001.655,"endTime":2004.125,"body":"Those studies are from all around the world."},{"startTime":2004.515,"endTime":2009.085,"body":"They're looking at PFOA concentrations in breast milk."},{"startTime":2009.915,"endTime":2011.845,"body":"It's in all breast milk samples."},{"startTime":2012.385,"endTime":2017.612,"body":"And this dotted line here is the dotted line that if you had made that"},{"startTime":2017.612,"endTime":2017.96,"body":"measurement in tap water, you would've had to do an investigation to make sure that"},{"startTime":2017.96,"endTime":2023.885,"body":"it was safe."},{"startTime":2024.875,"endTime":2025.165,"body":"Okay?"},{"startTime":2025.785,"endTime":2030.205,"body":"So at the top there was some three little graybars."},{"startTime":2030.205,"endTime":2031.805,"body":"That's formula milk."},{"startTime":2032.105,"endTime":2035.085,"body":"So it's not really a huge amount, it's everywhere."},{"startTime":2035.085,"endTime":2036.125,"body":"It's evening in milk formula."},{"startTime":2036.945,"endTime":2038.645,"body":"And it's the same thing with PFAS."},{"startTime":2038.665,"endTime":2044.59,"body":"So the take home message is the PFAS in the blood of the mother is"},{"startTime":2044.59,"endTime":2046.565,"body":"transferred to the child breastfeeding."},{"startTime":2046.665,"endTime":2051.445,"body":"The child transfers stored PFAS in the mother to the child as well."},{"startTime":2051.465,"endTime":2055.565,"body":"The burden passes from one generation to the next."},{"startTime":2058.225,"endTime":2060.525,"body":"And again, this is just to illustrate that."},{"startTime":2060.525,"endTime":2065.443,"body":"But again here we have P thousand P four, again this is looking in breast"},{"startTime":2065.443,"endTime":2065.77,"body":"milk, but down here actually we have some of the new compounds, some of those"},{"startTime":2065.77,"endTime":2066.098,"body":"replacement compounds which are been introduced because we know these are dangerous and these have"},{"startTime":2066.098,"endTime":2066.426,"body":"been reduced as replacements because they do the job and nobody's told us they're dangerous"},{"startTime":2066.426,"endTime":2080.525,"body":"yet."},{"startTime":2081.225,"endTime":2087.453,"body":"So just bear in mind, the new generation of PFAS molecules are appearing also in"},{"startTime":2087.453,"endTime":2088.284,"body":"breast milk."},{"startTime":2089.034,"endTime":2095.406,"body":"They seem to have a shorter half life in the plasma 'cause they've got shorter"},{"startTime":2095.406,"endTime":2098.805,"body":"carbon chain structures, but they are still there."},{"startTime":2099.985,"endTime":2106.507,"body":"And I can illustrate why that's concerning in the next slide because this is a"},{"startTime":2106.507,"endTime":2106.942,"body":"bit like that slide from the NHANES study, which showed that plasma concentrations of PFAS"},{"startTime":2106.942,"endTime":2115.205,"body":"was falling with time only."},{"startTime":2115.225,"endTime":2120.753,"body":"Now we're looking at PFAS and PFOA concentrations in breast milk and the breast milk"},{"startTime":2120.753,"endTime":2122.965,"body":"samples from 95 through to 2020."},{"startTime":2123.505,"endTime":2128.393,"body":"And you can see as PFAS is being faced out, it is falling in the"},{"startTime":2128.393,"endTime":2129.045,"body":"breast milk."},{"startTime":2129.625,"endTime":2133.24,"body":"And so is PFO not the best progression line in the world, but it still"},{"startTime":2133.24,"endTime":2134.205,"body":"seems to be significant."},{"startTime":2134.905,"endTime":2137.005,"body":"But this is the one which is the arresting one."},{"startTime":2137.435,"endTime":2138.725,"body":"This is our new generation."},{"startTime":2139.905,"endTime":2144.175,"body":"And as one goes down, the other one goes up."},{"startTime":2145.115,"endTime":2148.015,"body":"We know quite a lot I think about the toxicity of these two."},{"startTime":2148.795,"endTime":2153.295,"body":"We know very little next to nothing about the toxicity of this new generation."},{"startTime":2154.075,"endTime":2158.455,"body":"The little we do know tells us they're probably as toxic."},{"startTime":2159.075,"endTime":2159.295,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":2159.715,"endTime":2163.9,"body":"So if we've replaced something we know is bad with something which we just have"},{"startTime":2163.9,"endTime":2165.295,"body":"a lack of knowledge about."},{"startTime":2166.715,"endTime":2175.487,"body":"So given that we know there are these exposures, it should be therefore possible to"},{"startTime":2175.487,"endTime":2176.072,"body":"begin to unpick what some of the associated health effects are by association chemical load"},{"startTime":2176.072,"endTime":2186.015,"body":"versus adverse effect."},{"startTime":2186.915,"endTime":2189.735,"body":"Now this is restricted by measurements."},{"startTime":2189.735,"endTime":2190.975,"body":"So these studies are quite small."},{"startTime":2191.395,"endTime":2197.132,"body":"But I can go through here the things which have been associated with PFAS and"},{"startTime":2197.132,"endTime":2200.575,"body":"the internal dose of PFAS within the human body."},{"startTime":2202.235,"endTime":2209.191,"body":"Uh, certainly there seems to be a relationship between circulating levels of PFAS and fibro"},{"startTime":2209.191,"endTime":2209.655,"body":"dysregulation."},{"startTime":2210.045,"endTime":2211.735,"body":"That certainly seems to be the case."},{"startTime":2212.835,"endTime":2219.957,"body":"Um, there's a seems to be a pretty robust association with hypercholesterolemia, um, and blood"},{"startTime":2219.957,"endTime":2225.655,"body":"pressure, which is actually seen even relatively young liver damage through enzymes."},{"startTime":2225.965,"endTime":2232.429,"body":"Increased risks of kidney cancer and testicular cancer, low birth weight, uh, again related to"},{"startTime":2232.429,"endTime":2235.015,"body":"sort of problems of the placenta."},{"startTime":2235.515,"endTime":2239.455,"body":"And there's one here, which is fascinating, reduced responses to vaccines."},{"startTime":2239.535,"endTime":2243.81,"body":"I wanna talk a bit about that because that really reframes a lot of the"},{"startTime":2243.81,"endTime":2244.095,"body":"issues."},{"startTime":2244.635,"endTime":2248.261,"body":"And then in there we have a lot of things which are not in bold"},{"startTime":2248.261,"endTime":2248.503,"body":"and they're things which people have seen, but it hasn't yet reached a level of"},{"startTime":2248.503,"endTime":2252.855,"body":"sort of statistical certainty."},{"startTime":2253.235,"endTime":2260.17,"body":"And here we have low sperm count preeclampsia, hypertension during pregnancy, uh, inflammatory bowel disease"},{"startTime":2260.17,"endTime":2261.095,"body":"for example."},{"startTime":2261.515,"endTime":2269.0,"body":"So there's lots of evidence from statistical association that the level of PFAS in the"},{"startTime":2269.0,"endTime":2271.495,"body":"body is associated with this."},{"startTime":2272.075,"endTime":2276.295,"body":"But we do have these issues about absorption, distribution, metabolism's."},{"startTime":2276.455,"endTime":2276.695,"body":"Interesting."},{"startTime":2276.695,"endTime":2278.575,"body":"These chemicals are not metabolized yet."},{"startTime":2278.575,"endTime":2282.935,"body":"They stay unmetabolized in the body, residing in the tissues bound to protein."},{"startTime":2283.075,"endTime":2287.255,"body":"So they don't really get detoxified and they get excreted in the urine."},{"startTime":2287.395,"endTime":2292.911,"body":"But relatively slowly at the bottom here I've put sensitivity and I've put that there"},{"startTime":2292.911,"endTime":2294.015,"body":"next to dose."},{"startTime":2294.335,"endTime":2296.815,"body":"'cause you know, everything in my world is about dose."},{"startTime":2296.915,"endTime":2297.135,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":2297.165,"endTime":2300.375,"body":"It's about whether you, there's enough of the stuff to cause an adverse effect."},{"startTime":2300.765,"endTime":2303.895,"body":"Here is the, the issue of sensitivity."},{"startTime":2304.915,"endTime":2315.759,"body":"If everybody has PFAS in their body, absolutely everybody and only not 0.0001% of people"},{"startTime":2315.759,"endTime":2317.205,"body":"are vulnerable."},{"startTime":2317.505,"endTime":2317.725,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":2318.315,"endTime":2322.845,"body":"That percentage of the global population is a very, very big number."},{"startTime":2323.585,"endTime":2329.369,"body":"So as soon as a chemical exposure affects everybody, yes the effect, the toxicity doesn't"},{"startTime":2329.369,"endTime":2329.755,"body":"have to be massive, which actually begin to have scalable effects and significant effects on"},{"startTime":2329.755,"endTime":2335.925,"body":"public health."},{"startTime":2336.635,"endTime":2339.045,"body":"It's something which people often struggle to get."},{"startTime":2339.045,"endTime":2343.511,"body":"They're very used to the idea of, you know, the really big hazard which has"},{"startTime":2343.511,"endTime":2343.809,"body":"a big effect immediately when you start looking at these low level chemical exposures, it"},{"startTime":2343.809,"endTime":2349.765,"body":"becomes a much more subtle effect."},{"startTime":2351.065,"endTime":2356.33,"body":"Now the thing about this is we do know a little bit more than just"},{"startTime":2356.33,"endTime":2358.085,"body":"the clever statistical jiggery povy."},{"startTime":2358.105,"endTime":2363.021,"body":"Yes, we do know some of the mechanisms and we do have some clues on"},{"startTime":2363.021,"endTime":2364.005,"body":"what's going on."},{"startTime":2364.305,"endTime":2367.765,"body":"We do know that in the placenta there are problems with implantation."},{"startTime":2368.465,"endTime":2375.965,"body":"We can demonstrate both experimentally in animals and in human samples that there's thyroid defunction,"},{"startTime":2375.965,"endTime":2377.965,"body":"increased thyroid stimulating hormone."},{"startTime":2378.665,"endTime":2382.485,"body":"We can demonstrate oxidative stress and DNA damage occurring within the liver."},{"startTime":2382.825,"endTime":2388.325,"body":"So we can see certain biological events occurring in tissues which are adverse."},{"startTime":2388.985,"endTime":2395.816,"body":"So it's not just association and statistics, there is toxicology here which is going on,"},{"startTime":2395.816,"endTime":2399.005,"body":"which is coherent, very often quite coherent."},{"startTime":2402.735,"endTime":2406.372,"body":"But the issue of what is a safe dose is something which has really become"},{"startTime":2406.372,"endTime":2408.555,"body":"a bit of a, an issue in real time."},{"startTime":2408.615,"endTime":2414.611,"body":"And I have to do this 'cause I still find this fascinating when we were"},{"startTime":2414.611,"endTime":2415.011,"body":"talking about the trophic accumulation of PFAS, I showed you data from pilot whales in"},{"startTime":2415.011,"endTime":2415.41,"body":"the Pharaoh aisles and we are back in the Pharaoh aisles now because the Pharaoh"},{"startTime":2415.41,"endTime":2415.81,"body":"isles and scientists in the Pharaoh aisles have done some of the most remarkable research,"},{"startTime":2415.81,"endTime":2416.21,"body":"which has demonstrated potentially some of the most important health impacts of how PFAS is"},{"startTime":2416.21,"endTime":2440.995,"body":"likely to impact on human health."},{"startTime":2441.375,"endTime":2446.259,"body":"And this is fascinating 'cause we are miles from the factory, from the source from"},{"startTime":2446.259,"endTime":2446.585,"body":"where you would think yes there would be any real source of PFAS accumulation in"},{"startTime":2446.585,"endTime":2451.795,"body":"this population."},{"startTime":2452.145,"endTime":2456.899,"body":"This is the Pharaoh Isles, but they do eat quite a lot of seal and"},{"startTime":2456.899,"endTime":2459.435,"body":"they do eat quite a lot of whale."},{"startTime":2460.095,"endTime":2465.101,"body":"And so they are right at the end the sharp pointy, bit of a trophic"},{"startTime":2465.101,"endTime":2465.435,"body":"pyramid."},{"startTime":2465.655,"endTime":2468.315,"body":"Yes, they are likely to accumulate."},{"startTime":2469.865,"endTime":2473.915,"body":"This paper was brought out um, in 2012."},{"startTime":2473.945,"endTime":2479.783,"body":"It's quite old, but many of the guidelines about what people think is a safe"},{"startTime":2479.783,"endTime":2483.675,"body":"level comes from this paper and it's really very elegant."},{"startTime":2484.695,"endTime":2492.81,"body":"So they looked at 560 ish live singleton births and then they measured the PFAS"},{"startTime":2492.81,"endTime":2500.925,"body":"concentration in the mother and then the PFAS concentration within the blood of the child."},{"startTime":2502.065,"endTime":2510.399,"body":"And then at five and seven years old post immunization, they looked at their antibody"},{"startTime":2510.399,"endTime":2514.845,"body":"response to an to diptheria and to TEUs."},{"startTime":2516.505,"endTime":2523.339,"body":"And what they found was quite, I still think it's really remarkable if you look"},{"startTime":2523.339,"endTime":2523.795,"body":"at PFOS, they found that by the age of five a twofold greater concentration of"},{"startTime":2523.795,"endTime":2524.25,"body":"PFAS exposure in the child, which correlated beautifully with the concentration of the mother at"},{"startTime":2524.25,"endTime":2541.565,"body":"birth, was associated with a 40% reduction in antibody Titus."},{"startTime":2542.705,"endTime":2543.885,"body":"That's chunky."},{"startTime":2544.545,"endTime":2545.805,"body":"That's a big difference."},{"startTime":2547.465,"endTime":2553.001,"body":"And when they looked at PFAS and PFAS and they again, they looked at age"},{"startTime":2553.001,"endTime":2553.37,"body":"of five and they looked for who was falling beneath a clinically relevant protection after"},{"startTime":2553.37,"endTime":2559.645,"body":"the actual vaccination."},{"startTime":2561.075,"endTime":2566.965,"body":"There's a twofold and a fourfold difference for PFAS and P pfoa."},{"startTime":2567.775,"endTime":2570.365,"body":"These are huge differences."},{"startTime":2571.705,"endTime":2578.435,"body":"So this is telling us that the early life exposure to PFAS is having an"},{"startTime":2578.435,"endTime":2578.884,"body":"impairing effect on the immune system in terms of if you like immune training upon"},{"startTime":2578.884,"endTime":2589.205,"body":"vaccination, it is doing something to the immune system."},{"startTime":2591.985,"endTime":2596.406,"body":"And here this is PFAS in the child at the age of five, this is"},{"startTime":2596.406,"endTime":2598.765,"body":"the antibody response at the age of seven."},{"startTime":2599.225,"endTime":2605.056,"body":"And you can see there's a dose response relationship and you see it here for"},{"startTime":2605.056,"endTime":2605.445,"body":"inferior."},{"startTime":2606.425,"endTime":2608.365,"body":"And you can see it here for tetanus."},{"startTime":2608.425,"endTime":2611.513,"body":"It gets a bit wobbly at the end because there are a few individuals at"},{"startTime":2611.513,"endTime":2611.925,"body":"the end."},{"startTime":2611.945,"endTime":2614.285,"body":"So the uncertainty increases a bit."},{"startTime":2615.955,"endTime":2623.65,"body":"This means the, the range we're looking at here is between, what should we say,"},{"startTime":2623.65,"endTime":2624.163,"body":"about 10 to about 20 nanograms per mil having a significant effect on a really,"},{"startTime":2624.163,"endTime":2632.885,"body":"really meaningful endpoint."},{"startTime":2633.145,"endTime":2638.673,"body":"And what's interesting is they tracked this response through adolescents and it stays exactly the"},{"startTime":2638.673,"endTime":2640.885,"body":"same in this cohort of children."},{"startTime":2642.945,"endTime":2651.045,"body":"But hey, nothing is real in science unless somebody replicates it Yes and replicates it."},{"startTime":2651.045,"endTime":2654.245,"body":"And it doesn't have to be exactly the same type of study, but it needs"},{"startTime":2654.245,"endTime":2655.525,"body":"to have some sort of commonality."},{"startTime":2655.585,"endTime":2656.725,"body":"So here's an interesting one."},{"startTime":2657.435,"endTime":2658.925,"body":"This is a German study."},{"startTime":2659.335,"endTime":2663.725,"body":"Again, it's looking at antibody responses to the accumulation."},{"startTime":2664.595,"endTime":2665.965,"body":"This case it's pfoa."},{"startTime":2666.345,"endTime":2671.325,"body":"So we have 101 dots here and they're paired Muslim and child."},{"startTime":2671.425,"endTime":2671.645,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":2671.875,"endTime":2672.165,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":2672.825,"endTime":2676.965,"body":"The reds the child, the blue is the mother."},{"startTime":2677.715,"endTime":2681.285,"body":"This group over here are formula fed babies."},{"startTime":2682.265,"endTime":2685.445,"body":"And this group over here are babies who've been breastfed."},{"startTime":2685.785,"endTime":2691.368,"body":"So we can see as the mothers of breastfeeding, their blood levels of the PAS"},{"startTime":2691.368,"endTime":2691.741,"body":"is decreasing and the children's levels of PAS are increasing dramatically because of the breastfeeding"},{"startTime":2691.741,"endTime":2697.325,"body":"itself."},{"startTime":2697.705,"endTime":2700.325,"body":"So we have this pattern here."},{"startTime":2700.325,"endTime":2709.7,"body":"They looked at antibody responses at one year after influenza, inferior and tetanus injections, again"},{"startTime":2709.7,"endTime":2710.325,"body":"vaccinations."},{"startTime":2711.105,"endTime":2716.298,"body":"And again, this is all plateau, but between 12 and 25 it begins to go"},{"startTime":2716.298,"endTime":2716.645,"body":"down."},{"startTime":2716.715,"endTime":2717.965,"body":"This is for influenza."},{"startTime":2719.025,"endTime":2723.605,"body":"The same pattern now for, I think that must be tetanus."},{"startTime":2723.985,"endTime":2726.045,"body":"And then the final one is for DIP phe."},{"startTime":2727.745,"endTime":2734.885,"body":"So they're, they're replicating this kind of impairment of the immune, the adaptive immune system."},{"startTime":2735.785,"endTime":2741.669,"body":"And they did something fantastically elegant in this study and they took blood from the"},{"startTime":2741.669,"endTime":2742.061,"body":"babies, they isolated the immune cells lymphocytes from the actual blood and then they challenge"},{"startTime":2742.061,"endTime":2751.085,"body":"those lymphocytes with the actual antigens within the vaccine."},{"startTime":2751.905,"endTime":2757.158,"body":"And what they found was if you took sort of like the lymphocytes from the"},{"startTime":2757.158,"endTime":2757.508,"body":"children with high PFAS, there was almost a reduction of 50%, 50 to 60% of"},{"startTime":2757.508,"endTime":2766.965,"body":"the capacity of those cells to produce a compound known as interferon gamma."},{"startTime":2767.465,"endTime":2772.709,"body":"So actually the PFAS was interfering with the antiviral immune response and you could demonstrate"},{"startTime":2772.709,"endTime":2776.205,"body":"that ex vivo in a test tube using their cells."},{"startTime":2776.545,"endTime":2779.645,"body":"And you could see the actual physical association there."},{"startTime":2779.785,"endTime":2785.274,"body":"So this is really fascinating and the levels are quite low and you're looking at"},{"startTime":2785.274,"endTime":2785.64,"body":"something here in early life which is gonna have a significant ramification for their long-term"},{"startTime":2785.64,"endTime":2793.325,"body":"health in terms of their immune development."},{"startTime":2795.305,"endTime":2802.573,"body":"So there you have the epi, it was then compared against all of the toxicology"},{"startTime":2802.573,"endTime":2805.965,"body":"data by the US National Toxicological Program."},{"startTime":2806.075,"endTime":2807.205,"body":"This report is huge."},{"startTime":2807.505,"endTime":2807.725,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":2808.395,"endTime":2811.205,"body":"Very, very detailed conclusions."},{"startTime":2812.185,"endTime":2813.325,"body":"Hey, guess what folks?"},{"startTime":2814.725,"endTime":2820.433,"body":"PFAS seems to be having a damaging effect on children's immune development that I think"},{"startTime":2820.433,"endTime":2820.814,"body":"is some of the strongest, most persuasive data out there at the present moment in"},{"startTime":2820.814,"endTime":2821.195,"body":"time that we should be concerned about these compounds in terms of how they are"},{"startTime":2821.195,"endTime":2834.135,"body":"affecting our children in our society."},{"startTime":2835.395,"endTime":2836.335,"body":"So where were we?"},{"startTime":2839.265,"endTime":2841.375,"body":"Let's go back to PFAS."},{"startTime":2841.375,"endTime":2846.122,"body":"So if we started, it's developed, you know, B War, then in the war, all"},{"startTime":2846.122,"endTime":2848.655,"body":"of these PFAS are used for military purposes."},{"startTime":2849.065,"endTime":2853.846,"body":"And then after the war, all of that production is converted into consumer products for"},{"startTime":2853.846,"endTime":2854.165,"body":"money."},{"startTime":2854.745,"endTime":2858.005,"body":"And then it becomes a really big money making expertise."},{"startTime":2858.505,"endTime":2860.285,"body":"We have exploitation along the ways."},{"startTime":2860.385,"endTime":2864.545,"body":"We have some discoveries that there might be something bad going on, but nobody in"},{"startTime":2864.545,"endTime":2866.765,"body":"industry wants to tell the regulators about it."},{"startTime":2867.145,"endTime":2868.325,"body":"So nothing gets done."},{"startTime":2868.905,"endTime":2871.045,"body":"We get all the way through to the two thousands."},{"startTime":2871.625,"endTime":2874.165,"body":"Um, people begin to realize there's something going on."},{"startTime":2874.165,"endTime":2879.907,"body":"So they begin to phase out the old PFAS, but they introduce these new alternatives"},{"startTime":2879.907,"endTime":2880.29,"body":"and it's really only from about 2010 people in the wider society begin to get"},{"startTime":2880.29,"endTime":2887.565,"body":"very concerned about these things."},{"startTime":2889.025,"endTime":2891.245,"body":"And why have they got concerned?"},{"startTime":2894.725,"endTime":2896.565,"body":"'cause it's everywhere now."},{"startTime":2896.565,"endTime":2901.125,"body":"It's in our rivers, now it's in our tap water in the states."},{"startTime":2902.705,"endTime":2909.561,"body":"But here as well, a recent study by the Royal Society of Chemistry demonstrated that"},{"startTime":2909.561,"endTime":2910.018,"body":"when you took samples from 17 water source areas, feeding our water for our homes,"},{"startTime":2910.018,"endTime":2921.445,"body":"all of them had really alarming levels of PFAS in them."},{"startTime":2922.505,"endTime":2924.645,"body":"And give you some sort of illustrations here."},{"startTime":2924.995,"endTime":2928.565,"body":"This is just a sample of PFAS monitoring from around the United Kingdom."},{"startTime":2929.425,"endTime":2931.325,"body":"And you know that's London."},{"startTime":2931.425,"endTime":2935.885,"body":"London has about, this is the Thames, it's about 4,000 in the center."},{"startTime":2935.905,"endTime":2940.155,"body":"As you go out towards the estuary, it goes down to round 1000 sort of,"},{"startTime":2940.155,"endTime":2941.005,"body":"you know, microphones."},{"startTime":2941.215,"endTime":2942.965,"body":"These are way off the top."},{"startTime":2942.985,"endTime":2944.005,"body":"So look, we have a problem."},{"startTime":2944.225,"endTime":2946.485,"body":"Yes, we have problems with PFAS."},{"startTime":2946.485,"endTime":2949.765,"body":"People are beginning to explore how to deal with it."},{"startTime":2950.345,"endTime":2952.165,"body":"Here's the other part of the equation."},{"startTime":2953.195,"endTime":2954.005,"body":"It's not cheap."},{"startTime":2954.185,"endTime":2959.56,"body":"And I can give you an illustration of how it is not cheap because after"},{"startTime":2959.56,"endTime":2959.919,"body":"the case they won in Virginia against DuPont, they had a secondary class action which"},{"startTime":2959.919,"endTime":2967.445,"body":"only settled a couple of months ago."},{"startTime":2967.545,"endTime":2967.765,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":2968.345,"endTime":2973.735,"body":"And this was really for DuPont and 3M to pay the costs to clean up"},{"startTime":2973.735,"endTime":2979.125,"body":"the mess they had made of the environment and the watercourse in the United States."},{"startTime":2980.065,"endTime":2986.46,"body":"And that court case, which they have just lost, means they have to pay $10.3"},{"startTime":2986.46,"endTime":2989.445,"body":"billion in order to do the cleanup."},{"startTime":2990.105,"endTime":2993.125,"body":"The cleanup of this stuff is not cheap."},{"startTime":2993.835,"endTime":3000.36,"body":"Last week the Pentagon announced that the cleanup costs of 50 military sites within America,"},{"startTime":3000.36,"endTime":3000.795,"body":"which was heavily contaminated because of flame retired and foam is now somewhere in the"},{"startTime":3000.795,"endTime":3010.365,"body":"order of 31 to 50 billion US dollars."},{"startTime":3011.315,"endTime":3011.605,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3012.025,"endTime":3017.696,"body":"So when I think about the lifecycle and thinking about what things cost, these are"},{"startTime":3017.696,"endTime":3019.965,"body":"the costs people didn't really anticipate."},{"startTime":3020.905,"endTime":3025.963,"body":"So all of this is going on and as all of this is going on"},{"startTime":3025.963,"endTime":3026.3,"body":"and countries are thinking about how they're going to regulate and put in place regulations"},{"startTime":3026.3,"endTime":3026.637,"body":"in order to restrict the amount of PFAS in our water, what we have in"},{"startTime":3026.637,"endTime":3037.765,"body":"the United Kingdom are guidelines."},{"startTime":3039.035,"endTime":3039.325,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":3040.825,"endTime":3044.925,"body":"And so again, the war society has kind of said maybe we should a bit"},{"startTime":3044.925,"endTime":3046.565,"body":"of a better job of guidelines."},{"startTime":3046.585,"endTime":3048.645,"body":"And actually there's something interesting going on here."},{"startTime":3050.035,"endTime":3052.965,"body":"Currently, the guideline in the United Kingdom goes like this."},{"startTime":3053.945,"endTime":3059.525,"body":"Do you have less than 10 nanograms per liter of A-P-F-A-S?"},{"startTime":3060.185,"endTime":3061.685,"body":"If you do, it's a low risk."},{"startTime":3062.265,"endTime":3064.965,"body":"If it goes up to about 90, it's medium risk."},{"startTime":3064.965,"endTime":3069.205,"body":"If it goes about a hundred, it's high risk just one."},{"startTime":3069.705,"endTime":3070.965,"body":"But there isn't just one."},{"startTime":3071.665,"endTime":3075.285,"body":"And they often operate through exactly the same mode of action."},{"startTime":3075.785,"endTime":3079.205,"body":"And there's no mechanism in our system to add them together."},{"startTime":3079.625,"endTime":3083.485,"body":"You just treat them all as individual entities."},{"startTime":3083.625,"endTime":3087.313,"body":"If they, if you had a hundred and they were all below 10, it would"},{"startTime":3087.313,"endTime":3087.805,"body":"be fine."},{"startTime":3088.145,"endTime":3092.085,"body":"Yes, Europe does something completely different."},{"startTime":3092.085,"endTime":3099.214,"body":"They take the 20 most common PFAS and they have a collective aggregate dose which"},{"startTime":3099.214,"endTime":3100.165,"body":"they regulate."},{"startTime":3100.985,"endTime":3105.901,"body":"The US actually have individual limits, but at a very, very low level of four"},{"startTime":3105.901,"endTime":3106.885,"body":"nanograms per liter."},{"startTime":3107.305,"endTime":3111.908,"body":"So less than half of what our proposed is and what the raw cellular chemistry"},{"startTime":3111.908,"endTime":3112.215,"body":"is proposing, which I think is quite sensible, is a halfway house the best of"},{"startTime":3112.215,"endTime":3117.125,"body":"both worlds."},{"startTime":3117.915,"endTime":3121.485,"body":"Keeping our single standard but also having a collective standard."},{"startTime":3121.545,"endTime":3123.485,"body":"So we do begin to aggregate this up."},{"startTime":3123.885,"endTime":3127.509,"body":"I think this is really one of the most sensible things I've heard in a"},{"startTime":3127.509,"endTime":3129.925,"body":"very, very long time in terms of thinking about this."},{"startTime":3129.945,"endTime":3134.565,"body":"You cannot, we cannot regulate PFAS one at a time."},{"startTime":3135.305,"endTime":3139.925,"body":"We cannot do toxicological testing on PFAS one at a time."},{"startTime":3140.385,"endTime":3142.445,"body":"We have to find ways of doing this by class."},{"startTime":3142.905,"endTime":3147.605,"body":"And we need to find ways of aggregating and assessing the risk of the mixture."},{"startTime":3147.985,"endTime":3152.045,"body":"Now how do you get rid of the stuff?"},{"startTime":3153.525,"endTime":3155.125,"body":"Whatever I've just said, it's here."},{"startTime":3155.955,"endTime":3156.245,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3156.905,"endTime":3162.755,"body":"It was all released between 1950 and 2000 or the poppa or the POAs and"},{"startTime":3162.755,"endTime":3163.925,"body":"it's still there."},{"startTime":3164.025,"endTime":3164.245,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":3164.865,"endTime":3168.045,"body":"And it's not gonna degrade for a hundred thousand years."},{"startTime":3168.385,"endTime":3170.885,"body":"So we've got a cleanup exercise Yes to do."},{"startTime":3171.075,"endTime":3171.685,"body":"Certainly."},{"startTime":3172.385,"endTime":3173.445,"body":"How can we get rid of it?"},{"startTime":3173.445,"endTime":3179.932,"body":"Well there are people beginning to look at this, looking at, if you like, filtration,"},{"startTime":3179.932,"endTime":3180.365,"body":"reverse osmosis activated charcoal filters to try to remove some of the actual PFAS from"},{"startTime":3180.365,"endTime":3187.285,"body":"our water."},{"startTime":3188.625,"endTime":3192.543,"body":"My only issue of this is what do you do with the substrate after the"},{"startTime":3192.543,"endTime":3192.805,"body":"cleanup?"},{"startTime":3192.865,"endTime":3193.085,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":3193.345,"endTime":3196.085,"body":"You still have the stuff, you've got to dispose of it."},{"startTime":3196.085,"endTime":3196.965,"body":"You still have the waste."},{"startTime":3197.615,"endTime":3202.165,"body":"There are other people who are attempting to degrade it to actually get fracture."},{"startTime":3202.215,"endTime":3214.205,"body":"These carbine, these carbon flowed bonds through photocatalysis through radical reactions, fungi, bacteria, thermal lysis."},{"startTime":3214.565,"endTime":3217.565,"body":"A whole range of technologies are beginning to be developed."},{"startTime":3218.145,"endTime":3221.765,"body":"But a lot of these technologies seem to be quite promising in the lab."},{"startTime":3222.475,"endTime":3226.796,"body":"Very few of them have been scaled up yet to the sort of level that"},{"startTime":3226.796,"endTime":3228.525,"body":"we need to address the problem."},{"startTime":3230.825,"endTime":3234.645,"body":"So I have a few final thoughts."},{"startTime":3235.775,"endTime":3236.125,"body":"First."},{"startTime":3237.475,"endTime":3241.485,"body":"This I think is a quote from Ian Cousins."},{"startTime":3241.595,"endTime":3246.512,"body":"He's a professor of environmental chemistry in Stockholm, who is one of the guys trying"},{"startTime":3246.512,"endTime":3246.84,"body":"to work out how to, if you like, remediate, get rid of the PAS within"},{"startTime":3246.84,"endTime":3252.085,"body":"our environment."},{"startTime":3252.665,"endTime":3255.793,"body":"And he came up with this wonderful comment and he said the toxicology of these"},{"startTime":3255.793,"endTime":3257.045,"body":"chemicals is not yet fully understood."},{"startTime":3257.505,"endTime":3261.365,"body":"Uh, but uh, we know that everywhere and they shouldn't be."},{"startTime":3261.785,"endTime":3266.325,"body":"For me, this is like one of the nicest, cleanest examples of the precautionary principle."},{"startTime":3266.385,"endTime":3266.605,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":3267.125,"endTime":3271.236,"body":"I am so fed up of being told that we can only get rid of"},{"startTime":3271.236,"endTime":3271.51,"body":"stuff if we can say it's dangerous, but not because we have to prove it's"},{"startTime":3271.51,"endTime":3276.445,"body":"safe to begin with."},{"startTime":3276.745,"endTime":3279.325,"body":"And so that I think is a really key issue."},{"startTime":3279.625,"endTime":3284.977,"body":"And the reason I think it's a key issue is it's not just PFAS, it's"},{"startTime":3284.977,"endTime":3286.405,"body":"our whole chemical environment."},{"startTime":3287.115,"endTime":3293.429,"body":"I've stolen this quote, um, again from Alan from Harvard because he made this wonderful"},{"startTime":3293.429,"endTime":3293.85,"body":"observation that what we do in chemical regulation is we play an elaborate game of"},{"startTime":3293.85,"endTime":3300.165,"body":"whack-a-mole."},{"startTime":3300.785,"endTime":3301.005,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":3301.665,"endTime":3308.685,"body":"We identify something, it's bad, we whack it and then the next compound bounces up."},{"startTime":3309.625,"endTime":3313.125,"body":"We innovate to defeat and get around regulations."},{"startTime":3313.665,"endTime":3317.445,"body":"We do not innovate to create safe materials."},{"startTime":3318.005,"endTime":3321.205,"body":"I think this is what we need to do in the 21st century."},{"startTime":3321.765,"endTime":3326.965,"body":"I think we need to beginning to think about material chemistry almost in the same"},{"startTime":3326.965,"endTime":3329.045,"body":"way that we think about pharma."},{"startTime":3329.705,"endTime":3329.925,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":3330.065,"endTime":3334.587,"body":"In terms of actually doing good preclinical studies to make sure that the materials we"},{"startTime":3334.587,"endTime":3338.205,"body":"put into the environment are safe and thinking about their full fate."},{"startTime":3338.515,"endTime":3339.925,"body":"What happens at the end of the day."},{"startTime":3341.185,"endTime":3347.245,"body":"Um, and the reason for that is because I'm an environment mental health scientist."},{"startTime":3347.845,"endTime":3355.395,"body":"I believe in the precautionary principle and I think we've been rather cavalier over the"},{"startTime":3355.395,"endTime":3359.925,"body":"lev last 70 years in sacrificing the precautionary principle."},{"startTime":3360.225,"endTime":3366.314,"body":"And we have stumbled into a whole series of situations which have exposed both us"},{"startTime":3366.314,"endTime":3366.72,"body":"and our future generations and our future generations to health burdens but also to degraded"},{"startTime":3366.72,"endTime":3375.245,"body":"environment and a poorer quality of life."},{"startTime":3375.805,"endTime":3377.205,"body":"I think that's unacceptable."},{"startTime":3377.535,"endTime":3377.965,"body":"Thank you."},{"startTime":3387.295,"endTime":3388.045,"body":"Thank you Ian."},{"startTime":3388.225,"endTime":3391.165,"body":"Um, a huge number of questions."},{"startTime":3391.175,"endTime":3393.125,"body":"You'd be delighted to hear \u003claugh\u003e."},{"startTime":3393.125,"endTime":3393.285,"body":"Um,"},{"startTime":3394.425,"endTime":3396.485,"body":"Did I, he didn't get the codes right."},{"startTime":3396.665,"endTime":3403.062,"body":"The um, it's a striking thing here that you've got a chemical industry, which for"},{"startTime":3403.062,"endTime":3403.488,"body":"the last X years is shoving up new moles for you and, um, the culture"},{"startTime":3403.488,"endTime":3411.165,"body":"of that creative industry."},{"startTime":3411.585,"endTime":3416.775,"body":"At the same time as we have a huge number of politicians expressing a need"},{"startTime":3416.775,"endTime":3417.121,"body":"for a bonfire of the regulations is actually an accelerant of risk rather than a"},{"startTime":3417.121,"endTime":3423.005,"body":"decelerate of risk."},{"startTime":3423.005,"endTime":3423.685,"body":"Wouldn't you argue?"},{"startTime":3424.305,"endTime":3429.664,"body":"So how do we alter the, um, manufacturing and political framework in which we, who,"},{"startTime":3429.664,"endTime":3432.165,"body":"who holds the influence do you think?"},{"startTime":3432.545,"endTime":3434.045,"body":"The person who controls the money."},{"startTime":3435.225,"endTime":3435.445,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":3436.265,"endTime":3436.805,"body":"I'm afraid."},{"startTime":3437.905,"endTime":3443.377,"body":"And so until those individuals who are cleverly thinking of innovative ways to get the"},{"startTime":3443.377,"endTime":3443.742,"body":"next mole to poke its head up for the whole realize that that's short term"},{"startTime":3443.742,"endTime":3444.106,"body":"and downstream they're gonna get hit with a 51 US billion dollar lawsuit, which they"},{"startTime":3444.106,"endTime":3457.605,"body":"have to deal with and their companies outta business."},{"startTime":3457.955,"endTime":3462.165,"body":"That they have to realize that yes, they have to pay those costs."},{"startTime":3462.625,"endTime":3462.845,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":3462.865,"endTime":3465.285,"body":"And those costs have to be, and if we can get that cost."},{"startTime":3465.305,"endTime":3471.127,"body":"Now the problem is of course that we live in a political milieu and our"},{"startTime":3471.127,"endTime":3473.845,"body":"political milieu cycles around every five years."},{"startTime":3474.065,"endTime":3474.285,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":3474.665,"endTime":3478.125,"body":"And it doesn't lend itself towards good strategic decisions."},{"startTime":3479.045,"endTime":3484.463,"body":"I would quite like an organization like the Office of Budget responsibility to be responsible"},{"startTime":3484.463,"endTime":3484.825,"body":"for taking long-term strategic financial risk assessments for the United Kingdom, including in terms of"},{"startTime":3484.825,"endTime":3485.186,"body":"industry, so that they think about these things and then when people go and say,"},{"startTime":3485.186,"endTime":3485.547,"body":"this is our budget, this is our plan, this is our deregulatory framework, they go"},{"startTime":3485.547,"endTime":3502.165,"body":"that financially is suicide."},{"startTime":3502.825,"endTime":3507.208,"body":"So it's like forcing them to carry the cost of cleanup or carry avoiding the"},{"startTime":3507.208,"endTime":3508.085,"body":"cost of manufacturing."},{"startTime":3508.195,"endTime":3508.485,"body":"Yeah,"},{"startTime":3508.665,"endTime":3512.753,"body":"You have to, I mean the cost of cleanup can't be handed to the people"},{"startTime":3512.753,"endTime":3513.026,"body":"who have suffered the disadvantage and have had none of the profits yet, which is"},{"startTime":3513.026,"endTime":3518.205,"body":"currently how the system operates."},{"startTime":3519.025,"endTime":3519.245,"body":"So"},{"startTime":3519.265,"endTime":3520.845,"body":"Two, two household questions."},{"startTime":3522.345,"endTime":3524.565,"body":"Any point in buying a filter, do any of them work?"},{"startTime":3524.625,"endTime":3525.485,"body":"And would you buy one"},{"startTime":3526.815,"endTime":3527.685,"body":"Water filters?"},{"startTime":3527.915,"endTime":3528.205,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3528.305,"endTime":3532.725,"body":"The specific ones that are now being sold advertised to filter out PFAS."},{"startTime":3533.185,"endTime":3538.728,"body":"So I was gonna have a slide, um, about water filters and I read the"},{"startTime":3538.728,"endTime":3539.097,"body":"papers and at the end of the papers, um, I was very confused \u003claugh\u003e because"},{"startTime":3539.097,"endTime":3549.445,"body":"some of them work and some of them don't seem to work terribly well."},{"startTime":3550.145,"endTime":3556.127,"body":"Um, and I couldn't give you a good coherent answer to the question, but who"},{"startTime":3556.127,"endTime":3556.925,"body":"regulates them?"},{"startTime":3557.505,"endTime":3562.509,"body":"Who regulates the people who make the water filters to make sure the water filters"},{"startTime":3562.509,"endTime":3564.845,"body":"fulfill the requirements they're meant to fulfill?"},{"startTime":3565.545,"endTime":3571.048,"body":"One of the big problems we have is the industry sometimes is allowed to regulate"},{"startTime":3571.048,"endTime":3575.085,"body":"itself in things which actually begin to cross over into health."},{"startTime":3575.625,"endTime":3578.325,"body":"And I think this is a really interesting debate."},{"startTime":3579.065,"endTime":3584.068,"body":"If you be, if you engineer, if you get a filter, you say this filter"},{"startTime":3584.068,"endTime":3588.405,"body":"will remove harmful chemicals which are harmful for you and your unborn child."},{"startTime":3589.065,"endTime":3590.925,"body":"Is that filter now a medical device?"},{"startTime":3592.085,"endTime":3592.485,"body":"I dunno."},{"startTime":3592.645,"endTime":3596.445,"body":"'cause if it's a medical device, it's an entirely different regulatory framework and they've gotta"},{"startTime":3596.445,"endTime":3597.205,"body":"prove it works."},{"startTime":3597.425,"endTime":3597.645,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":3597.745,"endTime":3598.205,"body":"And and"},{"startTime":3598.325,"endTime":3602.867,"body":"You made a point about those filters are actually accumulating the stuff on the filter"},{"startTime":3602.867,"endTime":3604.685,"body":"which you then throw away somehow."},{"startTime":3604.955,"endTime":3605.605,"body":"Yeah, exactly."},{"startTime":3605.705,"endTime":3609.165,"body":"So there's, they they're actually adding to the pool or not adding to it."},{"startTime":3609.165,"endTime":3610.205,"body":"They're maintaining the pool."},{"startTime":3610.755,"endTime":3611.045,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3611.105,"endTime":3613.685,"body":"And and you can't, the substrate matters."},{"startTime":3613.825,"endTime":3614.045,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":3614.115,"endTime":3614.405,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3614.465,"endTime":3619.622,"body":"We have a huge, we have made a mess of our planet sometimes by dealing"},{"startTime":3619.622,"endTime":3623.405,"body":"with one calamity and creating a new calamity, solving that calamity."},{"startTime":3623.405,"endTime":3624.405,"body":"And it kind of scales up."},{"startTime":3625.555,"endTime":3628.689,"body":"It's a bit like what, what's gonna happen toward the, what's gonna happen to all"},{"startTime":3628.689,"endTime":3629.525,"body":"the electric car batteries?"},{"startTime":3629.665,"endTime":3631.445,"body":"What's going to happen to all the filters?"},{"startTime":3631.445,"endTime":3631.845,"body":"What's gonna happen?"},{"startTime":3631.945,"endTime":3632.925,"body":"We have to have a plan."},{"startTime":3633.425,"endTime":3634.925,"body":"We can't just have a short term fix."},{"startTime":3634.945,"endTime":3636.965,"body":"We have to think about this in the long term."},{"startTime":3637.665,"endTime":3643.268,"body":"So if you're an ultra cautious parent living in London at the moment, how do"},{"startTime":3643.268,"endTime":3643.641,"body":"you, is there anything you can do to protect your children from exposure to these"},{"startTime":3643.641,"endTime":3649.245,"body":"chemicals?"},{"startTime":3649.465,"endTime":3653.285,"body":"Or are we stuck because they're already out there, we can't get with them?"},{"startTime":3654.025,"endTime":3657.125,"body":"Do you know there's again, I came across a list of regulations."},{"startTime":3657.225,"endTime":3657.445,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":3657.745,"endTime":3659.885,"body":"Um, filter your water."},{"startTime":3659.885,"endTime":3661.965,"body":"If you can get good filter, keep your fingers crossed."},{"startTime":3662.305,"endTime":3667.605,"body":"Um, make sure you are, you know, you are not using a Teflon fing pan."},{"startTime":3667.685,"endTime":3668.525,"body":"I don't quite believe."},{"startTime":3668.525,"endTime":3671.325,"body":"And if your Teflon F plan is fine, it's not damaged, it should be."},{"startTime":3671.325,"endTime":3671.605,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":3672.415,"endTime":3673.845,"body":"Think about the clothes you're wearing."},{"startTime":3674.215,"endTime":3679.485,"body":"Think about the cosmetics you are using because many of those have PFAS within them."},{"startTime":3679.545,"endTime":3679.765,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":3680.105,"endTime":3682.525,"body":"So I think you could probably reduce your exposure."},{"startTime":3682.645,"endTime":3687.52,"body":"I I did see, um, a, a really interesting documentary in preparing for this with"},{"startTime":3687.52,"endTime":3687.845,"body":"somebody was, you know, went and had their sort of, their blood taken and, you"},{"startTime":3687.845,"endTime":3688.17,"body":"know, thought they were gonna have a really low, uh, PAS concentration because they, they"},{"startTime":3688.17,"endTime":3688.495,"body":"live a very virtuous and potentially slightly boring life only to discover that their concentrations"},{"startTime":3688.495,"endTime":3703.445,"body":"were off the scale."},{"startTime":3703.705,"endTime":3708.648,"body":"And after much sort of by debating it's because they scotch guarded it all their"},{"startTime":3708.648,"endTime":3711.285,"body":"children's shoes all the way through, through education."},{"startTime":3711.505,"endTime":3715.445,"body":"And Scotchguard is absolutely full of, you know, PFOA."},{"startTime":3715.505,"endTime":3719.84,"body":"So, so in a sense, you know, you, I think you just have to be"},{"startTime":3719.84,"endTime":3721.285,"body":"a bit cautious with it."},{"startTime":3722.545,"endTime":3728.245,"body":"Not eating high predators and eating, avoiding avoiding whales and seals."},{"startTime":3728.355,"endTime":3728.845,"body":"Clearly."},{"startTime":3728.865,"endTime":3729.925,"body":"That's a very good idea."},{"startTime":3730.765,"endTime":3735.765,"body":"\u003claugh\u003e."},{"startTime":3733.065,"endTime":3737.25,"body":"Um, and we, there was one question, uh, which I shared with you earlier on,"},{"startTime":3737.25,"endTime":3738.925,"body":"which I think is quite interesting."},{"startTime":3738.965,"endTime":3746.066,"body":"One, are there any studies that, um, PFASs and PFE in medical devices implanted in"},{"startTime":3746.066,"endTime":3751.275,"body":"your body continue to give off high concentrations of this stuff?"},{"startTime":3753.375,"endTime":3754.675,"body":"I'm gonna flick it around a bit."},{"startTime":3755.015,"endTime":3755.235,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":3755.695,"endTime":3759.115,"body":"Um, 'cause if you have a medical device in your body, you probably need it."},{"startTime":3759.175,"endTime":3759.395,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":3759.775,"endTime":3764.885,"body":"And this is one of those situations where some of the characteristics of PFAS are"},{"startTime":3764.885,"endTime":3769.315,"body":"uniquely important in the body to not have clotting, for example, clotting responses."},{"startTime":3769.375,"endTime":3775.292,"body":"For example, I know the American Chemical Society has kind of flagged this up in"},{"startTime":3775.292,"endTime":3775.687,"body":"terms of medical devices 'cause they're going Okay, we can, we just have a little"},{"startTime":3775.687,"endTime":3785.155,"body":"bit of nuance in terms of the regulation of PFAS."},{"startTime":3785.535,"endTime":3790.828,"body":"So that where PFAS materials are absolutely essential for maintaining individuals have, because they're also"},{"startTime":3790.828,"endTime":3791.181,"body":"used as propellants, you know, in, in sort of like asthma pumps to a certain"},{"startTime":3791.181,"endTime":3796.475,"body":"extent."},{"startTime":3796.915,"endTime":3798.395,"body":"'cause they have unique properties."},{"startTime":3798.615,"endTime":3800.875,"body":"So somehow they've gotta get the balance right."},{"startTime":3801.095,"endTime":3804.395,"body":"I'm not, I mean, although I always say regulation is a good thing."},{"startTime":3804.555,"endTime":3806.275,"body":"I think regulation should be smart."},{"startTime":3806.495,"endTime":3806.715,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":3806.815,"endTime":3809.075,"body":"And informed and nuanced at the edges."},{"startTime":3809.075,"endTime":3810.795,"body":"Medical devices are one of those things."},{"startTime":3811.095,"endTime":3816.875,"body":"If the question is should we be concerned because the health effects of a pacemaker"},{"startTime":3816.875,"endTime":3821.115,"body":"implanted in your chest from PFAS is something you worry about."},{"startTime":3821.595,"endTime":3824.728,"body":"I think it's the least of your problems and you should be very grateful you"},{"startTime":3824.728,"endTime":3825.355,"body":"have a pacemaker."},{"startTime":3827.035,"endTime":3832.183,"body":"I didn't get to, um, but just before I open the questions to the floor,"},{"startTime":3832.183,"endTime":3832.527,"body":"I, I didn't really understand whether we're in an irreversible trend that these things are"},{"startTime":3832.527,"endTime":3841.795,"body":"still going up irrespective of everything we've done to try and regulate it."},{"startTime":3842.135,"endTime":3844.755,"body":"Are they still going up, in other words, more moles than wacky?"},{"startTime":3845.335,"endTime":3846.835,"body":"Are we still seeing rising?"},{"startTime":3847.465,"endTime":3847.755,"body":"Yeah,"},{"startTime":3848.825,"endTime":3849.555,"body":"It's still rising."},{"startTime":3850.085,"endTime":3852.435,"body":"We're still innovating and we're still making new stuff."},{"startTime":3852.815,"endTime":3855.875,"body":"But the question is, have we replaced a mole?"},{"startTime":3856.065,"endTime":3856.355,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3856.505,"endTime":3857.755,"body":"With 20 volts?"},{"startTime":3857.825,"endTime":3858.115,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3858.255,"endTime":3858.475,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":3858.855,"endTime":3863.915,"body":"So, and can we add them together just to 20 mos equal one mole?"},{"startTime":3864.055,"endTime":3864.635,"body":"How did that happen?"},{"startTime":3864.895,"endTime":3865.435,"body":"But you know what I mean?"},{"startTime":3865.435,"endTime":3869.144,"body":"It's kind of like we now have a greater diversity of things to measure as"},{"startTime":3869.144,"endTime":3869.391,"body":"opposed to when we started off and we just had a few compounds and we"},{"startTime":3869.391,"endTime":3873.595,"body":"could measure them."},{"startTime":3873.655,"endTime":3873.875,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":3874.375,"endTime":3878.938,"body":"But the graph I showed you with breast milk where you can show, you know,"},{"startTime":3878.938,"endTime":3879.242,"body":"PFSO and PFOA going down, but at the same time, all the new generation of"},{"startTime":3879.242,"endTime":3879.546,"body":"PFAS are going in the other direction tells me that we kind of have to"},{"startTime":3879.546,"endTime":3891.715,"body":"probably be thinking about how much of that we can phase out."},{"startTime":3892.345,"endTime":3897.943,"body":"Last question from online was do you have to have fluoride in this compound for"},{"startTime":3897.943,"endTime":3898.316,"body":"them to be forever chemicals or are there non fluoride con fluoride containing ever for"},{"startTime":3898.316,"endTime":3903.915,"body":"chemicals?"},{"startTime":3904.055,"endTime":3904.275,"body":"Yes,"},{"startTime":3904.495,"endTime":3909.435,"body":"You can, you can have other combinations which are equally as as stable."},{"startTime":3909.445,"endTime":3910.555,"body":"There are other options."},{"startTime":3910.725,"endTime":3913.635,"body":"There are other sort of halogen you can throw in."},{"startTime":3914.175,"endTime":3916.355,"body":"Um, no, no, it's no."},{"startTime":3916.495,"endTime":3921.923,"body":"But I think kind of what we would like to have are not quite ever"},{"startTime":3921.923,"endTime":3922.285,"body":"chemicals."},{"startTime":3922.665,"endTime":3923.605,"body":"Not quite everywhere."},{"startTime":3924.095,"endTime":3930.307,"body":"Thank you for a fascinating talk can you tell us if, if it has a"},{"startTime":3930.307,"endTime":3930.721,"body":"half-life within us, this, these chemicals, the PFASs, do they actually break down and they"},{"startTime":3930.721,"endTime":3931.135,"body":"don't break down so there's no, there's no way of destroying them or degrading them"},{"startTime":3931.135,"endTime":3946.045,"body":"or they, they, they really are stable forever."},{"startTime":3948.085,"endTime":3951.685,"body":"Probably not forever, but they certainly, we eliminate them."},{"startTime":3951.835,"endTime":3958.405,"body":"Unmetabolized, yes, probably conjugated to other molecules, but they're still unbroken down."},{"startTime":3958.405,"endTime":3963.165,"body":"We haven't broken, our metabolism isn't breaking those carbon flowin bonds."},{"startTime":3963.625,"endTime":3966.965,"body":"We are then just passing them back into the environment where they will remain."},{"startTime":3967.545,"endTime":3969.085,"body":"But is it possible for"},{"startTime":3969.165,"endTime":3973.205,"body":"A bacteria perhaps to do it some form of bacterial back"},{"startTime":3973.205,"endTime":3973.645,"body":"Breakdown?"},{"startTime":3973.885,"endTime":3979.06,"body":"I think if we, I think there were people working on engineering new generations of"},{"startTime":3979.06,"endTime":3979.405,"body":"back."},{"startTime":3979.605,"endTime":3984.205,"body":"I don't think the bacteria we have will, unless, I mean, I'm the wrong person"},{"startTime":3984.205,"endTime":3986.965,"body":"to ask be should be asking Robin that question."},{"startTime":3987.135,"endTime":3987.765,"body":"We'll ask him."},{"startTime":3987.815,"endTime":3988.645,"body":"We'll ask that question."},{"startTime":3988.705,"endTime":3996.245,"body":"But I do think microbiology has a role to play both fungi and bacteria."},{"startTime":3996.825,"endTime":4000.71,"body":"But I suspect we're gonna have to do some genetic modification to configure them to"},{"startTime":4000.71,"endTime":4002.005,"body":"the problems that we have."},{"startTime":4003.405,"endTime":4005.045,"body":"A couple of quick, quick questions."},{"startTime":4005.045,"endTime":4005.645,"body":"So that's okay."},{"startTime":4005.705,"endTime":4008.925,"body":"Is formula milk better than the breastfeeding milk?"},{"startTime":4009.465,"endTime":4011.765,"body":"And what type of, uh, frying pans are safe?"},{"startTime":4011.795,"endTime":4013.205,"body":"Like non-stick ones?"},{"startTime":4013.345,"endTime":4014.845,"body":"Are they safe or not?"},{"startTime":4015.265,"endTime":4015.685,"body":"And why?"},{"startTime":4015.685,"endTime":4020.157,"body":"The UK regulation is lagging behind to what's happening in EU and the US Why"},{"startTime":4020.157,"endTime":4022.245,"body":"we are not adopting the best practices."},{"startTime":4023.025,"endTime":4023.445,"body":"Thanks."},{"startTime":4023.865,"endTime":4031.085,"body":"So even with what I've shown you, the health advice would still be breastfeed \u003claugh\u003e."},{"startTime":4031.225,"endTime":4031.445,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":4031.995,"endTime":4033.045,"body":"Even with that data."},{"startTime":4033.225,"endTime":4033.445,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":4033.915,"endTime":4039.165,"body":"It's, that's the still the advice is still that the benefits of breastfeeding outweigh Yes."},{"startTime":4039.625,"endTime":4041.805,"body":"The non-breast feeding."},{"startTime":4043.185,"endTime":4044.565,"body":"But I understand the concern."},{"startTime":4044.665,"endTime":4044.885,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":4045.045,"endTime":4048.645,"body":"I think people are always quite surprised when they see quite how much PFAS transfer"},{"startTime":4048.645,"endTime":4049.605,"body":"happens in breast milk."},{"startTime":4050.265,"endTime":4054.869,"body":"It is, it it's more alarming than I think it, it, it, it seems, but"},{"startTime":4054.869,"endTime":4057.325,"body":"I would never encourage somebody not to breastfe."},{"startTime":4057.485,"endTime":4060.805,"body":"'cause there are so many other benefits frying pans."},{"startTime":4060.825,"endTime":4066.325,"body":"The evidence seems to be, have new ones as the moment they're damaged."},{"startTime":4066.535,"endTime":4069.845,"body":"Don't use the mes \u003claugh\u003e, then they begin to out gas."},{"startTime":4070.185,"endTime":4070.405,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":4070.505,"endTime":4073.725,"body":"And then you have problems with uh, PFAS."},{"startTime":4073.835,"endTime":4079.325,"body":"Your third question was, ah, well that's, that's \u003claugh\u003e."},{"startTime":4079.745,"endTime":4081.205,"body":"What's the polite answer to that?"},{"startTime":4081.345,"endTime":4082.765,"body":"Um, could, could you repeat the question?"},{"startTime":4082.845,"endTime":4087.381,"body":"'cause I don't think people, uh, the question is why, why is the United Kingdom"},{"startTime":4087.381,"endTime":4090.405,"body":"so out of whack with Europe and the United States?"},{"startTime":4090.665,"endTime":4094.247,"body":"And I think the best thing I can say is because the United Kingdom has"},{"startTime":4094.247,"endTime":4094.725,"body":"decided to"},{"startTime":4094.725,"endTime":4099.725,"body":"Do things its own way, it's very tactful, \u003claugh\u003e."},{"startTime":4099.965,"endTime":4102.285,"body":"I mean, not on that tact thing."},{"startTime":4102.285,"endTime":4106.449,"body":"Note not mentioning major political crises over the last few years, or government policy for"},{"startTime":4106.449,"endTime":4107.005,"body":"14 years."},{"startTime":4107.524,"endTime":4108.325,"body":"I think we should stop."},{"startTime":4108.895,"endTime":4113.227,"body":"Thank the audience very much, but particularly Ian, thank you very much for an ex"},{"startTime":4113.227,"endTime":4113.805,"body":"Thank you."}]}