{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":4.805,"endTime":11.483,"body":"I wanted to start by introducing you to some queer folk and some queer places"},{"startTime":11.483,"endTime":15.045,"body":"from four regional English cities in the 1960s."},{"startTime":16.465,"endTime":20.633,"body":"The Gresham College lecture that you're listening to right now is giving you knowledge and"},{"startTime":20.633,"endTime":24.801,"body":"insight from one of the world's leading academic experts making it takes a lot of"},{"startTime":24.801,"endTime":28.969,"body":"time, but because we want to encourage a love of learning, we think it's well"},{"startTime":28.969,"endTime":29.525,"body":"worth it."},{"startTime":30.505,"endTime":34.555,"body":"We never make you pay for lectures, although donations are needed, all we ask in"},{"startTime":34.555,"endTime":35.365,"body":"return is this."},{"startTime":35.915,"endTime":38.285,"body":"Send a link to this lecture to someone you think would benefit."},{"startTime":38.745,"endTime":42.628,"body":"And if you haven't already, click the follow or subscribe button from wherever you are"},{"startTime":42.628,"endTime":43.405,"body":"listening right now."},{"startTime":44.465,"endTime":46.085,"body":"Now, let's get back to the lecture"},{"startTime":49.515,"endTime":51.575,"body":"And we work, we're gonna work clockwise."},{"startTime":51.795,"endTime":59.295,"body":"So Lucia moved from Ireland to Manchester as a teenager in the early 1960s."},{"startTime":60.235,"endTime":63.815,"body":"In the factory where she found work, she heard about the pansies."},{"startTime":63.835,"endTime":66.455,"body":"I'm gonna be doing a lot of this \u003claugh\u003e, just to warn you."},{"startTime":66.635,"endTime":71.309,"body":"She heard about the pansies who drank at the new union on Canal Street, and"},{"startTime":71.309,"endTime":75.983,"body":"along she went, I stood on Canal Street looking at these people going in and"},{"startTime":75.983,"endTime":76.295,"body":"out."},{"startTime":76.315,"endTime":79.975,"body":"She said, I saw men dressed as women and vice versa."},{"startTime":80.515,"endTime":82.855,"body":"I'd never seen anything like it in my life."},{"startTime":83.945,"endTime":88.701,"body":"These punters became like Lucia's family, and she was taken under the wing of the"},{"startTime":88.701,"endTime":93.457,"body":"straight landlord and landlady who found her bar work nearby and also a place to"},{"startTime":93.457,"endTime":93.775,"body":"live."},{"startTime":94.925,"endTime":102.108,"body":"This sense of family really mattered because of attacks by queer bashers and particularly intense"},{"startTime":102.108,"endTime":108.335,"body":"poli police activity in Manchester in the 1960s and seventies and indeed beyond."},{"startTime":109.195,"endTime":111.215,"body":"We had to take care of ourselves, she said."},{"startTime":111.675,"endTime":116.484,"body":"And as our numbers got bigger, we got bolder, and we would step out of"},{"startTime":116.484,"endTime":121.293,"body":"the new Union onto Canal Street with our drinks, and we had queens at each"},{"startTime":121.293,"endTime":122.255,"body":"end guarding us."},{"startTime":122.645,"endTime":129.133,"body":"They were vicious against the homophobes, she said, in a 1969 expose."},{"startTime":129.625,"endTime":133.455,"body":"There we, there we go again, of the leads queer pub, the hope and anchor."},{"startTime":133.795,"endTime":138.192,"body":"And you can see that the hope and anchor's just on tucked on the right"},{"startTime":138.192,"endTime":142.589,"body":"there, um, of the least queer pub, the the hope and anchor readers of the"},{"startTime":142.589,"endTime":144.055,"body":"national scandal rag the pe."},{"startTime":144.235,"endTime":149.526,"body":"The people were introduced to Jane who worked in a local mill where she arrived"},{"startTime":149.526,"endTime":154.818,"body":"and left, left early before everyone else because people would ridicule her so much at"},{"startTime":154.818,"endTime":156.935,"body":"work at the Hope and anchor."},{"startTime":157.105,"endTime":162.601,"body":"Other punters told the people that she gets most hurt, if not referred to as"},{"startTime":162.601,"endTime":168.097,"body":"her, and she but found it generally to be a place where, as she said"},{"startTime":168.097,"endTime":172.495,"body":"herself, she could enjoy herself without feeling out of place like Lucia."},{"startTime":172.755,"endTime":178.893,"body":"She found a sense of family here two weeks after the People's Report, the Hope"},{"startTime":178.893,"endTime":183.805,"body":"and Anchor Pub was ransacked by leads and Glasgow Rangers football fans."},{"startTime":184.185,"endTime":189.823,"body":"And it closed leaving Jane and others without their anchor point for a year before"},{"startTime":189.823,"endTime":195.461,"body":"it reopened as the new penny or the bent Penny as it became known locally"},{"startTime":195.461,"endTime":198.845,"body":"in interviews recalling the pub in its new incarnation."},{"startTime":198.985,"endTime":204.553,"body":"So from sort of 1970 ish, several men said they would rarely or never go"},{"startTime":204.553,"endTime":204.925,"body":"there."},{"startTime":205.715,"endTime":208.645,"body":"John remarked everything would be straight back to work."},{"startTime":208.835,"endTime":210.645,"body":"Your job would be untenable."},{"startTime":211.465,"endTime":213.645,"body":"He and others had too much to lose."},{"startTime":214.585,"endTime":216.965,"body":"Others had too little to gain."},{"startTime":217.395,"endTime":222.909,"body":"Ruth remembers remarked on how male dominated this pub was, and a couple of others"},{"startTime":222.909,"endTime":223.645,"body":"also nearby."},{"startTime":224.225,"endTime":229.765,"body":"She came from Wakefield to find like-minded people one night, but returned home disappointed."},{"startTime":231.785,"endTime":237.593,"body":"Eileen moved to Brighton from Glasgow because of its near queer notoriety in the 1960s"},{"startTime":237.593,"endTime":243.401,"body":"or by the 1960s, she relished being able to go out on a Sunday wearing"},{"startTime":243.401,"endTime":245.725,"body":"a pair of slacks and quotes."},{"startTime":245.905,"endTime":248.125,"body":"Nobody turned around calling me a cow."},{"startTime":249.485,"endTime":254.045,"body":"Ted from Southampton felt euphoric when he moved here in the 1960s."},{"startTime":254.645,"endTime":257.005,"body":"I just dived in and I never looked back."},{"startTime":257.065,"endTime":262.437,"body":"He said one of the several pubs that Ted enjoyed was the Golden Fleece, which"},{"startTime":262.437,"endTime":264.945,"body":"had two bars with very distinct atmospheres."},{"startTime":265.945,"endTime":268.105,"body":"Bert in one was the soul of discretion."},{"startTime":268.525,"endTime":271.985,"body":"Dennis in the other was one of those flamboyant queens."},{"startTime":272.685,"endTime":279.642,"body":"His bar was hilarious and riotous, but Denis could be indiscreet and might compromise you"},{"startTime":279.642,"endTime":284.745,"body":"in public discretion, still clearly mattered in Bri Britain's San Francisco."},{"startTime":286.005,"endTime":291.411,"body":"Nearby kins ca casuals, the smutty con, the SMU smutty combination of Phil and Ken,"},{"startTime":291.411,"endTime":296.818,"body":"the men who owned it meanwhile fed a distinctive queer style in Brighton in the"},{"startTime":296.818,"endTime":302.225,"body":"sixties and seventies with terribly Hawaiian shirts and all sorts of twi at the neck."},{"startTime":302.635,"endTime":307.585,"body":"Grant remembered remembering 1960s Plymouth."},{"startTime":307.975,"endTime":313.242,"body":"This is there in the bottom left from the vantage point of the 2010s local"},{"startTime":313.242,"endTime":313.945,"body":"born Ted."},{"startTime":314.145,"endTime":314.945,"body":"A a different Ted."},{"startTime":314.945,"endTime":317.705,"body":"There's quite a lot of Teds, um, was nostalgic."},{"startTime":318.565,"endTime":320.225,"body":"It was better when it was against the law."},{"startTime":320.225,"endTime":321.945,"body":"He said we were like a big family."},{"startTime":322.445,"endTime":324.425,"body":"We all knew who we were and where we could go."},{"startTime":325.085,"endTime":329.135,"body":"We always used to go for drinks on Saturday night at the Laier Hotel, which"},{"startTime":329.135,"endTime":329.945,"body":"is pictured here."},{"startTime":329.945,"endTime":333.305,"body":"The gate, the queer bit was this lower level extension at the back."},{"startTime":334.765,"endTime":338.081,"body":"Um, it was only a little place, but we were used to it and the"},{"startTime":338.081,"endTime":338.745,"body":"staff knew us."},{"startTime":339.255,"endTime":344.305,"body":"Another local, a teenager in the sixties was forbidden by his parents from going down"},{"startTime":344.305,"endTime":348.345,"body":"Union Street, notorious for the sailors who went out on the lash."},{"startTime":348.345,"endTime":348.665,"body":"There."},{"startTime":349.205,"endTime":352.825,"body":"He went, nevertheless, of course, and remembers the paramount."},{"startTime":353.685,"endTime":358.357,"body":"You got up to this tall, really tacky room with a tacky bar where they"},{"startTime":358.357,"endTime":363.03,"body":"played jukebox music and you got all the services, you got the prostitutes, you got"},{"startTime":363.03,"endTime":363.965,"body":"the queer boys."},{"startTime":364.195,"endTime":368.951,"body":"Basically the dregs of society ended up there and sometimes you'd get a drunken sailor"},{"startTime":368.951,"endTime":371.805,"body":"saying, come here darling, I wanna dance with you."},{"startTime":372.985,"endTime":376.845,"body":"The imperative though, was to keep below the proverbial radar."},{"startTime":377.465,"endTime":380.285,"body":"You have your joke, you muck about, but nothing else."},{"startTime":380.545,"endTime":385.365,"body":"One, one, Laier punter told gay news when they visited in the early 1970s."},{"startTime":386.185,"endTime":390.805,"body":"Now there's much to connect these places and experiences in each."},{"startTime":390.805,"endTime":393.165,"body":"There was at least one tacitly queer pub."},{"startTime":393.405,"endTime":398.307,"body":"Brighton had several, which had a mix of punters who found some sense of ease"},{"startTime":398.307,"endTime":403.209,"body":"and possibility, quite a lot of fun, and for some, a sense of family in"},{"startTime":403.209,"endTime":406.805,"body":"what were in other ways and in other places hard times."},{"startTime":407.855,"endTime":413.905,"body":"These were years when the homosexual heterosexual binary with which we are now so familiar"},{"startTime":413.905,"endTime":416.325,"body":"was becoming more entrenched and discussed."},{"startTime":416.945,"endTime":421.839,"body":"And in each city, this separation was becoming more evident in a way illustrated in"},{"startTime":421.839,"endTime":426.733,"body":"this documentary, um, on leed, which I'm just gonna show you a small clip of,"},{"startTime":426.733,"endTime":428.365,"body":"let's see if we can,"},{"startTime":430.765,"endTime":435.515,"body":"Although in Leeds as in other northern cities, most people do not adopt a Victorian"},{"startTime":435.515,"endTime":438.365,"body":"moral attitude and even express a kind of tolerance."},{"startTime":439.025,"endTime":443.051,"body":"It is still difficult for a homosexual to fit into the tougher and less permissive"},{"startTime":443.051,"endTime":444.125,"body":"environment that defines there."},{"startTime":445.235,"endTime":448.285,"body":"Some homosexuals have their own places which they must stick to."},{"startTime":448.305,"endTime":449.485,"body":"Others have nowhere."},{"startTime":452.605,"endTime":454.225,"body":"Are there many in Leeds that you know of?"},{"startTime":455.865,"endTime":459.425,"body":"I don't know, but I feel bit like \u003claugh\u003e."},{"startTime":460.425,"endTime":461.425,"body":"I suppose it must be really?"},{"startTime":461.485,"endTime":461.705,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":462.285,"endTime":466.145,"body":"But they all keep to their own little hos Well, various pub are notorious."},{"startTime":466.705,"endTime":468.705,"body":"I went down to hope and anchor for a giggle, wasn't they?"},{"startTime":468.705,"endTime":468.865,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":469.245,"endTime":470.185,"body":"And why that A giggle?"},{"startTime":470.845,"endTime":471.625,"body":"No, it was \u003claugh\u003e."},{"startTime":471.725,"endTime":475.465,"body":"It was actually not funny, but something I probably would laugh."},{"startTime":475.465,"endTime":476.465,"body":"I dunno, I don't."},{"startTime":476.515,"endTime":476.865,"body":"Funny."},{"startTime":477.905,"endTime":478.025,"body":"I,"},{"startTime":489.855,"endTime":490.145,"body":"Well,"},{"startTime":490.245,"endTime":490.865,"body":"I'm from Manchester."},{"startTime":491.425,"endTime":494.743,"body":"I was a student in Leeds when we first came up, you know, went on"},{"startTime":494.743,"endTime":498.062,"body":"this pub crawl to, with a couple of the students to see what the place"},{"startTime":498.062,"endTime":498.505,"body":"was like."},{"startTime":498.505,"endTime":502.445,"body":"We saw every pub near off, went to a few clubs and, uh, some of"},{"startTime":502.445,"endTime":506.385,"body":"the, some of these pubs were filled with queer out, the teddy boys all queers."},{"startTime":507.325,"endTime":510.492,"body":"And, um, some are in drag and some are not, but they don't, they don't,"},{"startTime":510.492,"endTime":513.66,"body":"don't really mind you as long as you, um, sort of not bother them and"},{"startTime":513.66,"endTime":514.505,"body":"not stare so much."},{"startTime":515.005,"endTime":518.85,"body":"But then some of the students at the university in charge of the union news"},{"startTime":518.85,"endTime":522.695,"body":"then doing his articles are on leads sound to you won homosexuality and the whole"},{"startTime":522.695,"endTime":523.465,"body":"bank know him."},{"startTime":523.465,"endTime":525.185,"body":"Everybody in Leeds, I think that's far enough."},{"startTime":525.805,"endTime":529.33,"body":"And he went there and took some photographs and the, the quiz there just sort"},{"startTime":529.33,"endTime":530.505,"body":"of played up to them."},{"startTime":530.645,"endTime":535.895,"body":"So it seemed doing antiques, dancing on tables and stuff and stripping off, I think"},{"startTime":535.895,"endTime":539.045,"body":"the podcast shirt off, which you don't do normally."},{"startTime":539.045,"endTime":541.125,"body":"You know, there's obviously sort playing onto the students."},{"startTime":542.145,"endTime":546.266,"body":"And then later on, um, one of the sort of Sunday scandal sheets must have"},{"startTime":546.266,"endTime":547.365,"body":"cut onto his story."},{"startTime":547.845,"endTime":548.405,"body":"A good story."},{"startTime":548.715,"endTime":553.149,"body":"They came on with photographers and did a double spread it, quite iterate story I"},{"startTime":553.149,"endTime":553.445,"body":"believe."},{"startTime":554.065,"endTime":559.481,"body":"And, um, Leeds were playing football team rangers, Glasgow Rangers and late le pretty bad"},{"startTime":559.481,"endTime":560.565,"body":"anyway for football."},{"startTime":560.565,"endTime":562.045,"body":"People smashing windows and stuff."},{"startTime":562.585,"endTime":566.737,"body":"And I think the Rangers lost and they were probably been a pub crawl afterwards"},{"startTime":566.737,"endTime":570.89,"body":"and they must have come across this place or heard it from this paper anyway,"},{"startTime":570.89,"endTime":575.042,"body":"and they went there probably taking the mick a bit booed up, you know, and"},{"startTime":575.042,"endTime":578.365,"body":"of caused some trouble fighting and, and, uh, place was closed down."},{"startTime":582.305,"endTime":585.605,"body":"It was quite a interesting, I think, vivid image of leads at that time."},{"startTime":585.605,"endTime":589.153,"body":"But what I think is particularly interesting about this short, this short clip from this"},{"startTime":589.153,"endTime":592.702,"body":"film, um, is the way in which we don't get to meet any homosexuals that"},{"startTime":592.702,"endTime":593.885,"body":"they talk about so much."},{"startTime":594.315,"endTime":596.965,"body":"This is about people who are over there in their haunts."},{"startTime":597.385,"endTime":601.143,"body":"Um, and we are getting this perspec this from very much from the perspective of"},{"startTime":601.143,"endTime":601.645,"body":"the norm."},{"startTime":602.355,"endTime":607.165,"body":"What the film also suggests is a real sense of real and pres present danger."},{"startTime":607.285,"endTime":610.825,"body":"I was really struck when I was looking again at this film and just thinking"},{"startTime":610.825,"endTime":614.365,"body":"about what it must have been like to be in the hope and anchor that"},{"startTime":614.365,"endTime":617.905,"body":"night when the Rangers, um, and Leeds fans descended and started fighting and destroying ransacking"},{"startTime":617.905,"endTime":621.445,"body":"the pub to this, to, to, to the extent that it had to close down."},{"startTime":621.605,"endTime":623.485,"body":"I mean, a terrifying experience."},{"startTime":623.905,"endTime":629.04,"body":"And this sense of real and present danger was, again, present in each city to"},{"startTime":629.04,"endTime":629.725,"body":"varying degrees."},{"startTime":630.585,"endTime":637.106,"body":"And this is perhaps no surprise because arrests and prosecutions, um, for homosexual homo homosexuality"},{"startTime":637.106,"endTime":638.845,"body":"continued across the 1960s."},{"startTime":639.145,"endTime":645.889,"body":"And in fact, after the 1967 act, which partially decriminalized homosexuality, arrests increased, men and"},{"startTime":645.889,"endTime":650.835,"body":"women continued to lose their jobs if their sexuality was revealed."},{"startTime":651.175,"endTime":655.555,"body":"And women also lost their children in distressing custody battle battles."},{"startTime":656.285,"endTime":661.056,"body":"Trans folk, um, appear in the press infrequently, um, in the 1960s, but when they"},{"startTime":661.056,"endTime":664.555,"body":"do, it's usually to do with reports of suicide and attack."},{"startTime":666.615,"endTime":672.24,"body":"So we can generalize, I think, between these cities and na nationally about queer experience"},{"startTime":672.24,"endTime":674.115,"body":"in the 1960s and beyond."},{"startTime":674.735,"endTime":678.78,"body":"And I don't want, I mean these threads of connection are very important, but in"},{"startTime":678.78,"endTime":682.825,"body":"this lecture, I want to think a bit further about what marks out these cities"},{"startTime":682.825,"endTime":683.635,"body":"and these folk."},{"startTime":684.095,"endTime":690.248,"body":"And so make an argument that the particular dimensions of locality, the local geography, economy,"},{"startTime":690.248,"endTime":696.401,"body":"politics, size, history, and also distance from London, make a real difference to the identity"},{"startTime":696.401,"endTime":702.555,"body":"and commu identities and communities which formed and were experienced in each of these places."},{"startTime":703.935,"endTime":708.116,"body":"If we just go back to our cast of characters, we might glimpse something of"},{"startTime":708.116,"endTime":708.395,"body":"this."},{"startTime":709.535,"endTime":712.555,"body":"So we might spot Lucia and her friend's defiance."},{"startTime":713.465,"endTime":717.405,"body":"We might see Ted's caution and also nostalgia in Plymouth."},{"startTime":718.545,"endTime":723.912,"body":"We can see the sense of embattlement in LEED city center, and we can see"},{"startTime":723.912,"endTime":728.565,"body":"too the sense of possibility and scope for some visibility, flamboyant or otherwise."},{"startTime":728.865,"endTime":736.056,"body":"For Eileen, the other Ted and their circles in Brighton communities scenes and identities had"},{"startTime":736.056,"endTime":743.248,"body":"a different cadence in each of these places because of particular circumstances and inflections of"},{"startTime":743.248,"endTime":746.605,"body":"local, regional, national, ethnic, and other identifications."},{"startTime":747.265,"endTime":752.915,"body":"If the call to come out was soon to be articulated loudly nationally and internationally"},{"startTime":752.915,"endTime":758.565,"body":"in the early 1970s, it was taken up very unevenly in each of these cities."},{"startTime":760.105,"endTime":764.414,"body":"And so by looking at each of these cities in turn, two in the north,"},{"startTime":764.414,"endTime":768.724,"body":"two on the south coast, but all within the English jurisdiction, I'm going to pull"},{"startTime":768.724,"endTime":771.885,"body":"out the factors that I think have made for these differences."},{"startTime":772.845,"endTime":778.557,"body":"In doing so, I want to suggest the significance of thinking about sexuality in particular"},{"startTime":778.557,"endTime":784.27,"body":"and local contexts, and suggest the need to be suspicious of sweeping accounts, which often"},{"startTime":784.27,"endTime":789.983,"body":"place London front and center, and assume that its history can also count as a"},{"startTime":789.983,"endTime":790.745,"body":"national history."},{"startTime":793.385,"endTime":794.775,"body":"There are cities, uh,"},{"startTime":795.595,"endTime":795.815,"body":"Uh,"},{"startTime":796.195,"endTime":797.975,"body":"Two at the top, two at the bottom there."},{"startTime":800.965,"endTime":807.629,"body":"So if we start with Manchester, the largest of our four cities, but in decline"},{"startTime":807.629,"endTime":814.294,"body":"in the 1960s as the manufacturing base shrank and a program of slum clearance took"},{"startTime":814.294,"endTime":820.959,"body":"hold, 544,000 people lived in the city in 1971, a drop of 80,000 from 1961,"},{"startTime":820.959,"endTime":823.625,"body":"really quite a sub substantial dip."},{"startTime":824.365,"endTime":830.947,"body":"The population fell by a further 90,000 by 1981 before gradually recovering to roughly the"},{"startTime":830.947,"endTime":831.825,"body":"1971 figure."},{"startTime":832.085,"endTime":838.235,"body":"By 2021, under very different economic conditions, the wider greater Manchester region meanwhile maintained a"},{"startTime":838.235,"endTime":844.385,"body":"more consistent population of 2.7 million, including some of those who had left the central"},{"startTime":844.385,"endTime":846.025,"body":"parts of the city."},{"startTime":847.255,"endTime":848.675,"body":"Others moved in."},{"startTime":848.675,"endTime":854.235,"body":"However, Africa, Caribbean immigrants settled in the inner south suburbs from the later 1950s."},{"startTime":854.735,"endTime":861.11,"body":"And the number of students in the city doubled from about 12,000 to about 24,000"},{"startTime":861.11,"endTime":863.235,"body":"from 1961, uh, to 1971."},{"startTime":863.295,"endTime":865.555,"body":"And that's kind of in line with the national trend."},{"startTime":866.525,"endTime":871.761,"body":"These incomers contributed to a burgeoning youth culture in the city, which was centered on"},{"startTime":871.761,"endTime":876.998,"body":"dance halls, shebeens, and all night cafes, which were according to the Bolton Evening News,"},{"startTime":876.998,"endTime":878.395,"body":"hives of mole decadence."},{"startTime":879.555,"endTime":885.824,"body":"A somewhat associated queer scene developed alongside, brought to wider visibility during the sixties by"},{"startTime":885.824,"endTime":892.093,"body":"particularly aggressive policing, which came with the appointment of John McKay as the new chief"},{"startTime":892.093,"endTime":893.765,"body":"of police in 1959."},{"startTime":895.325,"endTime":899.245,"body":"Landlords and punters at the Rembrandt, a country pub in the city."},{"startTime":899.665,"endTime":904.419,"body":"And the more working class new union, which we've seen already, both on Canal Street"},{"startTime":904.419,"endTime":909.174,"body":"in the southern part of the city center, found themselves in court on various indecency"},{"startTime":909.174,"endTime":910.125,"body":"and licensing charges."},{"startTime":911.175,"endTime":916.625,"body":"These and other venues were mapped in local press coverage as a result, flagging the"},{"startTime":916.625,"endTime":918.805,"body":"existence of a nascent queer scene."},{"startTime":919.185,"endTime":922.706,"body":"As surely as the dangers associated with it, it showed you where you could go"},{"startTime":922.706,"endTime":923.645,"body":"if you were interested."},{"startTime":924.945,"endTime":931.212,"body":"The intense police activity and press interest in part explains the stridency of queer community"},{"startTime":931.212,"endTime":937.479,"body":"here that we saw in Lucia's testimony, the formation of the Northwestern Homosexual Law Reform"},{"startTime":937.479,"endTime":943.747,"body":"Committee later, the CHE, the campaign for homosexual equality was founded here in the mid"},{"startTime":943.747,"endTime":944.165,"body":"1960s."},{"startTime":944.385,"endTime":948.787,"body":"You can see that on the right, right on the, on the left hand side,"},{"startTime":948.787,"endTime":953.189,"body":"uh, left hand side there, um, and direct action, lesbian and gay organizing at the"},{"startTime":953.189,"endTime":957.591,"body":"start of the 1970s in a campaign of kis and slogan painting on city central"},{"startTime":957.591,"endTime":957.885,"body":"railway."},{"startTime":957.885,"endTime":964.375,"body":"Bridges, for example, has been understood locally as an extension of the city's longer radical"},{"startTime":964.375,"endTime":967.405,"body":"lineage of Peter Lou and the Hursts."},{"startTime":968.305,"endTime":974.852,"body":"So said Paul Fairweather, Manchester City Council's first gay officer from 1984, and another radical"},{"startTime":974.852,"endTime":975.725,"body":"local initiative."},{"startTime":976.875,"endTime":983.673,"body":"Paul suggested that this mancunian history and tradition together with union and work workplace comradeship"},{"startTime":983.673,"endTime":989.565,"body":"underpinned a particular sense of solidarity and an upstart queer scene in Manchester."},{"startTime":990.135,"endTime":995.67,"body":"Large enough to have lots going on, but unlike London, small enough to be socially"},{"startTime":995.67,"endTime":997.885,"body":"and politically networked and completely manageable."},{"startTime":997.945,"endTime":998.845,"body":"I'm quoting Paul here."},{"startTime":1000.185,"endTime":1002.405,"body":"So, um, we've got a combination of factors."},{"startTime":1003.205,"endTime":1009.784,"body":"A city, a city large enough to have a critical mass of queer people, particularly"},{"startTime":1009.784,"endTime":1016.364,"body":"intense police activity, um, marshaled against queer and black people and the venues they used"},{"startTime":1016.364,"endTime":1022.943,"body":"from 1959, right through to the 1980s, a broader tradition and history of solidarity and"},{"startTime":1022.943,"endTime":1029.085,"body":"radicalism, and an interestingly, an enduring crossover queer scene, which brought different people together."},{"startTime":1030.265,"endTime":1035.704,"body":"So in the sixties, but also in into the seventies and eighties, there were Central"},{"startTime":1035.704,"endTime":1041.143,"body":"Manchester venues like Paddy's Goose, Tommy Ducks, and the Blooms Hotel, which were nominally regular"},{"startTime":1041.143,"endTime":1044.045,"body":"bars, but popular with queer and trans people."},{"startTime":1045.105,"endTime":1049.838,"body":"If I went to the Goose on a Wednesday, I'd be sure to find some"},{"startTime":1049.838,"endTime":1054.572,"body":"other trans people to spend the evening with, said Jenny Ann, who felt anchored in"},{"startTime":1054.572,"endTime":1059.306,"body":"the city in the seventies and eighties as a result of these places, and also"},{"startTime":1059.306,"endTime":1064.039,"body":"because of a trans support group running outta the university, tra chaplaincy on Oxford Road,"},{"startTime":1064.039,"endTime":1068.773,"body":"crucially with a car park that allowed her to arrive and also to leave, uh,"},{"startTime":1068.773,"endTime":1072.245,"body":"discreetly and safely in the years to come, these traditions continued."},{"startTime":1072.535,"endTime":1075.325,"body":"Manchester remained on the cutting edge politically."},{"startTime":1075.745,"endTime":1080.725,"body":"It hosted the largest anti clause 28 demo in the country in 1988."},{"startTime":1080.725,"endTime":1084.425,"body":"And you can see that, um, up here on the left hand side, on the"},{"startTime":1084.425,"endTime":1086.645,"body":"right hand side, apologies left and right, always tricky."},{"startTime":1087.385,"endTime":1094.947,"body":"Um, and it also, the city also gained a larger national and international reputation for"},{"startTime":1094.947,"endTime":1102.005,"body":"its cutting edge and crossover music and dance scenes in a city in decline."},{"startTime":1102.425,"endTime":1107.69,"body":"It was cheap in the 1970s and 1980s to live and to put on parties"},{"startTime":1107.69,"endTime":1112.605,"body":"in the industrial buildings and warehouses that were increasingly lying empty in the center."},{"startTime":1113.675,"endTime":1117.481,"body":"Kate, a trans woman, told me an interview, the only people who seemed to live"},{"startTime":1117.481,"endTime":1119.765,"body":"in town in the late 1980s who were queer."},{"startTime":1120.345,"endTime":1121.685,"body":"We didn't even have a supermarket."},{"startTime":1121.895,"endTime":1126.235,"body":"There was something about not just moving to Manchester, but living in the center of"},{"startTime":1126.235,"endTime":1126.525,"body":"it."},{"startTime":1127.145,"endTime":1129.365,"body":"We just wanted to be right in it to be part of it."},{"startTime":1130.585,"endTime":1134.968,"body":"The labor controlled city council was amongst the first in the country to appoint, um,"},{"startTime":1134.968,"endTime":1139.352,"body":"a lesbian and gay officers, as we've seen already and committees in the 1980s, mid"},{"startTime":1139.352,"endTime":1139.645,"body":"1980s."},{"startTime":1140.025,"endTime":1143.325,"body":"And the council actively supported the new gay center."},{"startTime":1143.985,"endTime":1149.111,"body":"It helped gays and lesbians into housing, recognizing the disproportionate difficulties many of them faced,"},{"startTime":1149.111,"endTime":1151.845,"body":"especially in the context of the AIDS crisis."},{"startTime":1152.505,"endTime":1157.442,"body":"And they helped facilitate the formation of the UK's first gay village through licensing and,"},{"startTime":1157.442,"endTime":1160.405,"body":"um, and street furniture and other, and other initiatives."},{"startTime":1160.745,"endTime":1166.523,"body":"Um, and this happened in the deserted warehouses and buildings around Canal Street, the post-industrial"},{"startTime":1166.523,"endTime":1169.605,"body":"landscape lending itself to this kind of renewal."},{"startTime":1170.945,"endTime":1175.754,"body":"In the early 1980s, the area around Canal Street was still, and I'm quoting full"},{"startTime":1175.754,"endTime":1180.563,"body":"of cotton workers by day and prostitutes by night, according to the former landlord of"},{"startTime":1180.563,"endTime":1181.525,"body":"the Rembrandt Rembrandt."},{"startTime":1181.815,"endTime":1188.607,"body":"Thereafter, the warehouses emptied and only the prostitutes were left in 1990, etched out of"},{"startTime":1188.607,"endTime":1191.325,"body":"an old building on Canal Street."},{"startTime":1191.785,"endTime":1197.066,"body":"Um, the glass fronted Manaus opened as the first of the new style bars modeled,"},{"startTime":1197.066,"endTime":1202.347,"body":"um, on, on those in Paris and Barcelona around the same time to introduce, said"},{"startTime":1202.347,"endTime":1207.628,"body":"one of the owners a bit more sophistication to the scene, though interestingly, punters initially"},{"startTime":1207.628,"endTime":1210.445,"body":"crowded upstairs to avoid being in full view."},{"startTime":1211.025,"endTime":1213.765,"body":"The risk of exposure was still very real for many."},{"startTime":1215.205,"endTime":1221.787,"body":"Soon after this area became the hub for city, city Center, warehouse, apartment living bar"},{"startTime":1221.787,"endTime":1226.175,"body":"and Club-based socializing and AIDS related community fundraising and support."},{"startTime":1227.155,"endTime":1232.055,"body":"The new potential of the Pink Pound was especially evident here and queer as folk."},{"startTime":1232.275,"endTime":1238.26,"body":"The Landmark Channel four series of 2001 cemented the Village's place on a queer cutting"},{"startTime":1238.26,"endTime":1240.655,"body":"edge for a much wider audience."},{"startTime":1240.955,"endTime":1245.375,"body":"And the city tourist office was soon promoting it alongside Curry Mile."},{"startTime":1245.525,"endTime":1247.885,"body":"Another newly defined urban quarters."},{"startTime":1249.155,"endTime":1254.258,"body":"Kwin from Leeds found it liberating, exciting to have such a place where there was"},{"startTime":1254.258,"endTime":1259.362,"body":"at least a couple of lesbian venues and knights alongside the majority that were gay"},{"startTime":1259.362,"endTime":1263.445,"body":"male Joe contrasted the bright lights of gay Manchester with parochial Plymouth."},{"startTime":1264.665,"endTime":1270.72,"body":"The Village, um, was criticized for being an exclusionary ghetto, for being too commercial, too"},{"startTime":1270.72,"endTime":1275.565,"body":"young, too white, too straight, too gay for not being queer enough."},{"startTime":1276.265,"endTime":1281.843,"body":"And partly as a result, it provided a spur to an alternative in the two"},{"startTime":1281.843,"endTime":1287.421,"body":"thousands associated, especially with the Northern Quarter and harking back to earlier music, queer and"},{"startTime":1287.421,"endTime":1288.165,"body":"drag scenes."},{"startTime":1289.235,"endTime":1296.856,"body":"This alternative, um, scene traded frequently on ideas of local working class industrial and radical"},{"startTime":1296.856,"endTime":1297.365,"body":"authenticity."},{"startTime":1297.625,"endTime":1303.0,"body":"Rather than the Euro-American trends, which were seen to dominate the village scene and venues,"},{"startTime":1303.0,"endTime":1308.375,"body":"it pushed boundaries in terms of music performance and what it meant to be queer"},{"startTime":1308.375,"endTime":1310.525,"body":"the more frequently de deployed term."},{"startTime":1310.825,"endTime":1312.125,"body":"In this alternative circuit."},{"startTime":1313.345,"endTime":1320.285,"body":"The gay village nevertheless maintained its status as a place of socializing, community remembrance."},{"startTime":1320.785,"endTime":1323.525,"body":"Um, there's a, the opposite there, the Canal Street."},{"startTime":1323.525,"endTime":1328.325,"body":"There's a park called Sacville Park, which has a memorial to Alan touring, um, to"},{"startTime":1328.325,"endTime":1333.125,"body":"people that died, um, in the AIDS crisis and to, um, people who have suffered"},{"startTime":1333.125,"endTime":1336.005,"body":"transphobic, um, um, um, attack and, and, and murder."},{"startTime":1338.105,"endTime":1343.682,"body":"The bars and clubs of Canal Street etched outta former industrial buildings were, and are"},{"startTime":1343.682,"endTime":1346.285,"body":"still busy and are a tourist draw."},{"startTime":1348.705,"endTime":1355.449,"body":"So if Manchester, um, became by the 1980s and 1990s, queer notorious Brighton was ahead"},{"startTime":1355.449,"endTime":1362.193,"body":"of the game already by the 1950s courting the pink tourist pound, and described by"},{"startTime":1362.193,"endTime":1368.938,"body":"one late 1960s journalist as the gayest place in Europe and visibly so Brighton and"},{"startTime":1368.938,"endTime":1375.682,"body":"Hove together had in 1971, 230,000 residents, it was a really compact or is a"},{"startTime":1375.682,"endTime":1382.427,"body":"really compact, um, um, city hemmed in by the south downs on the one side"},{"startTime":1382.427,"endTime":1385.125,"body":"and the sea on the other."},{"startTime":1385.625,"endTime":1390.59,"body":"The population densities was were high with flats and bed sits close to the center"},{"startTime":1390.59,"endTime":1392.245,"body":"and to the social scenes."},{"startTime":1393.585,"endTime":1400.354,"body":"The local economy was consistently reliant on sole traders rather than big employers, hotels, cafes"},{"startTime":1400.354,"endTime":1407.123,"body":"and shops provided what a Alan Bea Bay described as classic low paid queer work,"},{"startTime":1407.123,"endTime":1413.892,"body":"militating against the ethic of solidarity extending from the workplace we see in Manchester, whilst"},{"startTime":1413.892,"endTime":1418.405,"body":"also fostering an individualism, which I suggest was Brighton's hallmark."},{"startTime":1419.395,"endTime":1426.683,"body":"Only 21% of Brighton and Hoves population worked in manufacturing in 1971, 10% below the"},{"startTime":1426.683,"endTime":1430.085,"body":"national average and 20% lower than Manchester."},{"startTime":1430.465,"endTime":1432.725,"body":"And this declined further over the period."},{"startTime":1434.155,"endTime":1440.763,"body":"More people here were self-employed and in professional managerial and skilled role roles with a"},{"startTime":1440.763,"endTime":1441.645,"body":"substantial proportion."},{"startTime":1441.865,"endTime":1448.178,"body":"One in 20 in 19 71, 1 in 12 by 2011, commuting the 60 miles"},{"startTime":1448.178,"endTime":1451.125,"body":"to office-based jobs in London such work."},{"startTime":1451.125,"endTime":1457.456,"body":"These office-based jobs opened up possibilities for women in particular to have lifestyles independent of"},{"startTime":1457.456,"endTime":1463.788,"body":"family as Alison or has argued commuting, separated work from home and home, sexual and"},{"startTime":1463.788,"endTime":1470.12,"body":"social lives for many brightonian further underpinning the onus on pleasure and consumption in the"},{"startTime":1470.12,"endTime":1470.965,"body":"city itself."},{"startTime":1472.305,"endTime":1476.005,"body":"So the keynote I'm highlighting was self-expression and individualism."},{"startTime":1476.305,"endTime":1481.521,"body":"And this was, um, um, and this was enhanced by an arts and students seen,"},{"startTime":1481.521,"endTime":1486.737,"body":"which had a disproportionate impact here because of the small size and geography of the"},{"startTime":1486.737,"endTime":1487.085,"body":"city."},{"startTime":1487.785,"endTime":1493.278,"body":"The University of Sussex in the middle there opened in 1961, rapidly gaining a radical"},{"startTime":1493.278,"endTime":1493.645,"body":"reputation."},{"startTime":1493.985,"endTime":1498.365,"body":"And alongside there were new town center buildings for the college of arts and crafts."},{"startTime":1499.105,"endTime":1505.783,"body":"The Brighton Festival began in 1967 and rapidly became the biggest arts festival in England,"},{"startTime":1505.783,"endTime":1507.565,"body":"a queerish independent bookshop."},{"startTime":1507.585,"endTime":1512.465,"body":"The unicorn opened much earlier here than in the other cities, and there were also"},{"startTime":1512.465,"endTime":1516.045,"body":"avowedly gay hotels earlier than in other parts of the country."},{"startTime":1516.545,"endTime":1519.845,"body":"Um, we can see that the proprietor of the new Steen Hotel, um, which had"},{"startTime":1519.845,"endTime":1521.605,"body":"been around I think since the late sixties."},{"startTime":1524.275,"endTime":1529.592,"body":"This was moreover in the 1960s and until the early 1990s, a relatively cheap place"},{"startTime":1529.592,"endTime":1531.365,"body":"to live, certainly not now."},{"startTime":1531.825,"endTime":1536.045,"body":"And this made for a youthful and counter-cultural population."},{"startTime":1537.465,"endTime":1542.965,"body":"An associated queer life was tangibly woven into brighton's cultural and commercial fabric."},{"startTime":1543.585,"endTime":1548.951,"body":"And this, and this was a draw to a steady stream of migrants from other"},{"startTime":1548.951,"endTime":1553.245,"body":"parts of the country in decades when homophobia was felt acutely elsewhere."},{"startTime":1554.865,"endTime":1560.3,"body":"Surveys in the mid 1990s show very few members of the L-G-B-T-Q population were born,"},{"startTime":1560.3,"endTime":1562.475,"body":"were actually born in the city."},{"startTime":1562.495,"endTime":1565.155,"body":"And this is a rather different profile from in Plymouth, for example."},{"startTime":1565.775,"endTime":1570.915,"body":"And there was a sense of this, uh, in this, of a city enthusiastically chosen,"},{"startTime":1570.915,"endTime":1573.315,"body":"and again, by individuals and for themselves."},{"startTime":1573.855,"endTime":1579.262,"body":"Um, you can see a theme emerging here, um, and though Brighton remained very white,"},{"startTime":1579.262,"endTime":1584.67,"body":"the income has furnished some sense of cosmopolitanism and bought different experiences and ideas to"},{"startTime":1584.67,"endTime":1587.915,"body":"bear on the community and sense of counterculture here."},{"startTime":1589.455,"endTime":1595.225,"body":"The queer scene was already substantial enough by the 1960s to be riven by cliques"},{"startTime":1595.225,"endTime":1595.995,"body":"and snobbery."},{"startTime":1596.925,"endTime":1601.555,"body":"Grant recalled that lots of queers would say, oh, I wouldn't go into that place."},{"startTime":1601.625,"endTime":1603.245,"body":"It's frightfully rough and tumble."},{"startTime":1603.705,"endTime":1608.655,"body":"His own queer set went out during the week to avoid the rougher queer blokes"},{"startTime":1608.655,"endTime":1612.285,"body":"from Midland and Northern cities, who he said visited at weekends."},{"startTime":1613.215,"endTime":1616.165,"body":"There was a distinctive style too, as we've already seen."},{"startTime":1616.395,"endTime":1622.162,"body":"Michael found the quick witted, bright and Queens very alarming when he arrived from Luton"},{"startTime":1622.162,"endTime":1624.085,"body":"in 1960 as a 22-year-old."},{"startTime":1624.345,"endTime":1629.285,"body":"And Grant remembered that Colorwise in Brighton, it was a bit grotesque."},{"startTime":1630.535,"endTime":1635.951,"body":"There was a fashion link between Brighton and London and much chuckling to and from"},{"startTime":1635.951,"endTime":1640.645,"body":"the capital in ways that gave this smallish seaside resort a metropolitan edge."},{"startTime":1642.225,"endTime":1647.881,"body":"By the seventies, there was clear links between hippie feminist, left wing and queer people,"},{"startTime":1647.881,"endTime":1653.537,"body":"and causes helping make Brighton to gym possibly one of the easiest places in the"},{"startTime":1653.537,"endTime":1657.685,"body":"country to come to terms with an alternative from mainstream identity."},{"startTime":1659.355,"endTime":1664.854,"body":"This was certainly political, but the sense of queer ease and possibility in Brighton in"},{"startTime":1664.854,"endTime":1670.353,"body":"these years partly explains why it wasn't urgently political, certainly in comparison to Manchester and"},{"startTime":1670.353,"endTime":1675.852,"body":"Leeds where gays and lesbians were facing, especially heavy handed policing on the one hand"},{"startTime":1675.852,"endTime":1679.885,"body":"and on the other open violent hostility from the national front."},{"startTime":1680.145,"endTime":1684.14,"body":"So there's a diff a real different cadence, texture to queer life in Brighton as"},{"startTime":1684.14,"endTime":1686.005,"body":"opposed to to those two other cities."},{"startTime":1688.045,"endTime":1694.221,"body":"Strikingly queer folk in Brighton were behaving before 1967, as if what they were doing"},{"startTime":1694.221,"endTime":1695.045,"body":"was legal."},{"startTime":1695.825,"endTime":1699.365,"body":"And in that sense, the act made relatively little difference here."},{"startTime":1700.425,"endTime":1706.047,"body":"Clause 28, when it came in 1988, was a different matter, especially in the context"},{"startTime":1706.047,"endTime":1711.67,"body":"of the AIDS crisis, which hit Brighton, so especially hard consolidating networks and communities of"},{"startTime":1711.67,"endTime":1712.045,"body":"care."},{"startTime":1713.385,"endTime":1719.658,"body":"Clause 28 banned the promotion of homosexuality by local authorities, and this was a particular"},{"startTime":1719.658,"endTime":1725.932,"body":"affront in Brighton, which had a reputation as we've seen as a town of historic,"},{"startTime":1725.932,"endTime":1727.605,"body":"queer ease and visibility."},{"startTime":1728.985,"endTime":1735.121,"body":"The particular fervent activist upsurge in Brighton in the late eighties and nineties, the springs"},{"startTime":1735.121,"endTime":1741.257,"body":"from this eighties moment, from clause 28, and gave community here a new texture as"},{"startTime":1741.257,"endTime":1742.485,"body":"opposed to Manchester."},{"startTime":1742.585,"endTime":1747.627,"body":"The council was cautious and did not celebrate and market the city's queer credentials until"},{"startTime":1747.627,"endTime":1749.645,"body":"the late nineties and two thousands."},{"startTime":1751.005,"endTime":1758.692,"body":"Activism and community was instead determinedly, grassroots and off, often mobilized in opposition to this"},{"startTime":1758.692,"endTime":1759.205,"body":"council."},{"startTime":1763.145,"endTime":1769.682,"body":"An interview in Plymouth described going to Brighton and realizing you could be gay there"},{"startTime":1769.682,"endTime":1773.605,"body":"an identity he didn't associate with his home city."},{"startTime":1775.565,"endTime":1782.036,"body":"Devastated by air bombardment of 19, the air bombardment of 1941 Plymouth was remodeled in"},{"startTime":1782.036,"endTime":1787.645,"body":"the post-war years as a self-consciously modern city, albeit with historic seafaring roots."},{"startTime":1788.745,"endTime":1796.161,"body":"Its center in that reorganization was depopulated and reconstructed suburbs were zoned for supposedly more"},{"startTime":1796.161,"endTime":1797.645,"body":"convivial family living."},{"startTime":1798.065,"endTime":1801.834,"body":"You were much less likely here than in Brighton to have a central bed, a"},{"startTime":1801.834,"endTime":1803.845,"body":"couple of doors down for a queer bar."},{"startTime":1805.035,"endTime":1807.965,"body":"This reconfiguration was apparently something of a draw."},{"startTime":1808.545,"endTime":1814.856,"body":"The population grew by 35,000 across the 1960s, reaching 239,000 in 1971, more or less,"},{"startTime":1814.856,"endTime":1819.485,"body":"uh, the same as Brighton, but less, much less densely packed."},{"startTime":1821.075,"endTime":1826.815,"body":"The city's culture and reputation still revolved around the Navy and the docks."},{"startTime":1827.315,"endTime":1832.849,"body":"In the 1960s, a full 40% of men, 11% above the national average, worked in"},{"startTime":1832.849,"endTime":1838.015,"body":"public service of one type or another, largely on account of the military presence."},{"startTime":1838.675,"endTime":1845.003,"body":"25,000 people were employed directly in the Dockyard or Navy in the 1970s and roughly"},{"startTime":1845.003,"endTime":1847.535,"body":"the same again in associated trades."},{"startTime":1848.125,"endTime":1852.175,"body":"This amounted to just under a quarter of the city's working population."},{"startTime":1853.645,"endTime":1859.802,"body":"More people here than nationally was skilled and semi-skilled with fewer in the professional and"},{"startTime":1859.802,"endTime":1861.855,"body":"managerial or unskilled social categories."},{"startTime":1862.715,"endTime":1868.252,"body":"As a result, many Ians shared a class and occupational background and identity, often aligned"},{"startTime":1868.252,"endTime":1871.575,"body":"with a strong sense of family tradition and culture."},{"startTime":1872.395,"endTime":1879.327,"body":"It was like Brighton, also very white interviewees in Plymouth repeatedly emphasized the work and"},{"startTime":1879.327,"endTime":1885.335,"body":"family networks of gossip and their concern with what the neighbors might think."},{"startTime":1885.985,"endTime":1890.813,"body":"There was a felt need to keep below the proverbial radar and for very pressing"},{"startTime":1890.813,"endTime":1891.135,"body":"reasons."},{"startTime":1892.445,"endTime":1898.499,"body":"Homosexuality was outlawed in the armed forces until 2000 for both men and women affecting"},{"startTime":1898.499,"endTime":1902.535,"body":"not only those directly serving, but their partners and families."},{"startTime":1903.515,"endTime":1908.982,"body":"If in Brighton, the 1967, um, sexual Offenses Act was an irrelevance because people were"},{"startTime":1908.982,"endTime":1914.449,"body":"already living as if what they were doing was legal Here, the 1967 Act was"},{"startTime":1914.449,"endTime":1919.917,"body":"an irrelevance because there was another national audience or ordinance which had a particular impact"},{"startTime":1919.917,"endTime":1921.375,"body":"on this military city."},{"startTime":1923.355,"endTime":1928.423,"body":"The military presence and its significance to the local economy meant there was only a"},{"startTime":1928.423,"endTime":1929.775,"body":"negligible peace movement here."},{"startTime":1930.285,"endTime":1935.393,"body":"Neither was there much of an anti-racist or feminist movement in this oval, overwhelmingly white"},{"startTime":1935.393,"endTime":1936.415,"body":"and traditional city."},{"startTime":1937.275,"endTime":1942.291,"body":"The art scene was small and the student population didn't expand until much, much later,"},{"startTime":1942.291,"endTime":1943.295,"body":"the late nineties."},{"startTime":1944.475,"endTime":1950.208,"body":"Now these things matter because they are factors that prompted and sustained the alternative scenes"},{"startTime":1950.208,"endTime":1955.942,"body":"politics and countercultures, which feature in different ways in each of the other cities, especially"},{"startTime":1955.942,"endTime":1961.676,"body":"from the late 1960s, and which aligned gay, lesbian and trans identities closely to the"},{"startTime":1961.676,"endTime":1963.205,"body":"left and to counterculture."},{"startTime":1963.505,"endTime":1969.081,"body":"In this period in Plymouth, we see something very different, but it did not mitigate"},{"startTime":1969.081,"endTime":1974.658,"body":"against queer fun Here there was a big, big, I'm quoting a big, big scene"},{"startTime":1974.658,"endTime":1978.005,"body":"for women in the early 1980s around the station."},{"startTime":1978.455,"endTime":1983.213,"body":"Chaun told me she remembered that we used to designate God loads of little pubs"},{"startTime":1983.213,"endTime":1984.165,"body":"around North Road."},{"startTime":1984.925,"endTime":1988.64,"body":"Everyone would kind of gather on say, a Thursday night so the landlord would know"},{"startTime":1988.64,"endTime":1991.365,"body":"we'd all, we'd all descend on, on whatever night it was."},{"startTime":1992.475,"endTime":1997.205,"body":"This scene was however, fairly invisible unless you knew women who were part of it."},{"startTime":1997.955,"endTime":2003.115,"body":"When Prudence and Gay moved here from Manchester in 1982 to set up the another"},{"startTime":2003.115,"endTime":2008.276,"body":"words, bookshop, which is there in the middle, um, they also established a local lesbian"},{"startTime":2008.276,"endTime":2013.436,"body":"line because of what they identified as the local ignorance of where to go for"},{"startTime":2013.436,"endTime":2015.845,"body":"advice and for friendship with other lesbians."},{"startTime":2016.785,"endTime":2021.576,"body":"The couple themselves bought a certain manism with them, and because they ran their own"},{"startTime":2021.576,"endTime":2026.368,"body":"business and didn't have local family to worry about, could afford to be more avert"},{"startTime":2026.368,"endTime":2028.605,"body":"than many queer people in the city."},{"startTime":2029.985,"endTime":2034.085,"body":"In other words, was remembered by several as a daringly prominent hub."},{"startTime":2034.705,"endTime":2038.772,"body":"It was almost like an alternative reality, said, Alan, I was living in Plymouth and"},{"startTime":2038.772,"endTime":2042.839,"body":"I was living in the traditional Plymouth, but there were these little pockets of places,"},{"startTime":2042.839,"endTime":2046.365,"body":"like in other words, that I could access if I felt brave enough."},{"startTime":2047.275,"endTime":2052.689,"body":"Then there was the luckier until 19 77, 2 years after Bell Cook did this"},{"startTime":2052.689,"endTime":2058.104,"body":"wonderful rendering of its interior, um, 1977 when the new landlord turfed out the gaze"},{"startTime":2058.104,"endTime":2063.519,"body":"and one or two other pubs or clubs and more loosely queer venues like the"},{"startTime":2063.519,"endTime":2065.324,"body":"Paramount, which Michael described earlier."},{"startTime":2066.175,"endTime":2071.639,"body":"There was an equally vibrant outdoor sex scene in the city's many green spaces involving"},{"startTime":2071.639,"endTime":2077.103,"body":"men, including a sizable number of sailors who often didn't identify as gay, but enjoyed"},{"startTime":2077.103,"endTime":2078.925,"body":"casual sex with other men."},{"startTime":2079.935,"endTime":2083.445,"body":"There seems to have been a tacit knowledge and toleration of this."},{"startTime":2083.855,"endTime":2088.998,"body":"There was a sense here in the sixties and really right up until the 1980s"},{"startTime":2088.998,"endTime":2094.141,"body":"that you could retain your normality and your masculinity whilst also having some casual gay"},{"startTime":2094.141,"endTime":2096.885,"body":"sex as long as you didn't act gay."},{"startTime":2098.505,"endTime":2103.999,"body":"At a workshop I ran in the city, a story surfaced of a father who"},{"startTime":2103.999,"endTime":2109.493,"body":"beat up his son really quite seriously in the early 1980s when he discovered that"},{"startTime":2109.493,"endTime":2114.988,"body":"this son was gay, despite the fact that he himself, the father, had regular casual"},{"startTime":2114.988,"endTime":2118.285,"body":"sex with men in this military male dominated city."},{"startTime":2118.495,"endTime":2123.503,"body":"There was an especially thin dividing line between the sex men might have with each"},{"startTime":2123.503,"endTime":2128.511,"body":"other, and homosexual identities taken up by others which were deemed to be beyond the"},{"startTime":2128.511,"endTime":2128.845,"body":"pale."},{"startTime":2129.475,"endTime":2135.04,"body":"Such lines were sometimes policed by the kind of terrible violence that this father meted"},{"startTime":2135.04,"endTime":2136.525,"body":"out to his son."},{"startTime":2138.805,"endTime":2144.818,"body":"The imperative was to discretion, and this was facilitated by the separation of homes in"},{"startTime":2144.818,"endTime":2148.025,"body":"Plymouth from places of social and sexual recreation."},{"startTime":2148.815,"endTime":2153.598,"body":"There's, there was, as a result, no real pushback in Plymouth against P Clause 28,"},{"startTime":2153.598,"endTime":2157.745,"body":"partly because there was little impetus to be visible in the first place."},{"startTime":2159.535,"endTime":2165.31,"body":"What's especially interesting about Plymouth is the nostalgia I mentioned earlier, and which we see"},{"startTime":2165.31,"endTime":2167.235,"body":"especially vividly in Dennis's testimony."},{"startTime":2168.195,"endTime":2173.717,"body":"Dennis came to Plymouth as a trainee Submariner in the 1970s, early 1970s, and came"},{"startTime":2173.717,"endTime":2178.135,"body":"out as gay and left his marriage in the early two thousands"},{"startTime":2179.725,"endTime":2181.095,"body":"When I was a junior rating."},{"startTime":2181.515,"endTime":2184.935,"body":"He said in the 1970s, I shared a cabin with three guys."},{"startTime":2185.075,"endTime":2188.895,"body":"And so we had that community feeling of you look after one another."},{"startTime":2189.555,"endTime":2192.295,"body":"It was normally a case of a group of us going to Union Street."},{"startTime":2192.675,"endTime":2197.456,"body":"You go out together, you enjoy together, you are entertained and you take it from"},{"startTime":2197.456,"endTime":2197.775,"body":"there."},{"startTime":2197.875,"endTime":2201.175,"body":"And I think that's lost now because everyone is an individual."},{"startTime":2201.685,"endTime":2204.295,"body":"They go back to their room and they shut their door."},{"startTime":2204.685,"endTime":2205.735,"body":"They just live on their own."},{"startTime":2206.035,"endTime":2209.757,"body":"The places, the pubs, the bars they were probably frequented by sailors be they gave"},{"startTime":2209.757,"endTime":2211.495,"body":"you they straight or what have you."},{"startTime":2212.045,"endTime":2218.382,"body":"It's gone at the swallow, the only remaining gay bar in Plymouth, uh, where 95%"},{"startTime":2218.382,"endTime":2220.495,"body":"of the people were L-G-B-T-Q."},{"startTime":2220.905,"endTime":2225.896,"body":"Denis said he didn't feel comfortable amid people doing their own thing, being flamboyant, being"},{"startTime":2225.896,"endTime":2226.895,"body":"garish, being loud."},{"startTime":2227.795,"endTime":2232.411,"body":"The greater visibility of LGBT people in the two thousands had not led to a"},{"startTime":2232.411,"endTime":2237.027,"body":"greater feeling of community for Denis, like those serving in the Navy in these later"},{"startTime":2237.027,"endTime":2237.335,"body":"years."},{"startTime":2237.595,"endTime":2240.535,"body":"People at the swallow were just doing their own thing."},{"startTime":2242.115,"endTime":2247.065,"body":"By the time I interviewed de Dennis, the culture here around sexual pleasure was anchored"},{"startTime":2247.065,"endTime":2252.015,"body":"more firmly in identity as it had been in Brighton since the sixties, at least"},{"startTime":2252.015,"endTime":2255.975,"body":"with a single bar, gay bar, and a receding public sex scene."},{"startTime":2256.215,"endTime":2261.124,"body":"Plymouth had less to offer the casually interested or indeed those who identified as gay"},{"startTime":2261.124,"endTime":2266.033,"body":"or lesbian if there was a drive to reinvent a scene in Manchester and Leeds"},{"startTime":2266.033,"endTime":2267.015,"body":"at this time."},{"startTime":2267.465,"endTime":2268.775,"body":"There was little of that here."},{"startTime":2269.785,"endTime":2274.915,"body":"There was not the critical mass and several interviews referred to a local apathy and"},{"startTime":2274.915,"endTime":2278.335,"body":"an enduring reluctance to put your head above the palate."},{"startTime":2279.025,"endTime":2283.535,"body":"Kevin describes friends who went annually to Pride in Manchester to be gay."},{"startTime":2284.195,"endTime":2287.735,"body":"I'm quoting, they have four or five days to be drunk to dance."},{"startTime":2287.925,"endTime":2292.434,"body":"They have World Aids Day Remembrance, and then they come back to normal life down"},{"startTime":2292.434,"endTime":2292.735,"body":"here"},{"startTime":2297.105,"endTime":2299.795,"body":"With a population of 750,000."},{"startTime":2299.815,"endTime":2301.195,"body":"So we're onto Final City."},{"startTime":2301.195,"endTime":2306.952,"body":"City Number four leads, people, um, leads was three times the size of Brighton and"},{"startTime":2306.952,"endTime":2312.71,"body":"Hove and Plymouth and was in addition well networked by Road and Rail with nearby"},{"startTime":2312.71,"endTime":2318.085,"body":"Bradford Wakefield, Huddersfield, Hal, and Halifax, offering multiple opportunities for socializing activism and sex."},{"startTime":2319.095,"endTime":2323.515,"body":"It had some of the same traditions of labor and working class solidarity as Manchester."},{"startTime":2324.175,"endTime":2330.196,"body":"It was similar too, in terms of students and associated youth counter and activist cultures,"},{"startTime":2330.196,"endTime":2336.218,"body":"but queer life and community was also distinct here, marked by the later seventies by"},{"startTime":2336.218,"endTime":2340.635,"body":"separatism and also a social scene oriented away from the center."},{"startTime":2342.315,"endTime":2347.033,"body":"I signaled at the outset the edginess and male dominance of this part of Leeds"},{"startTime":2347.033,"endTime":2349.235,"body":"in the sixties, seventies, and also eighties."},{"startTime":2350.525,"endTime":2357.315,"body":"Ajamu from Huddersfield meanwhile described a particular discomfort here in the 1980s."},{"startTime":2357.315,"endTime":2361.495,"body":"He said you had rock shots, you had the new penny, and then there was"},{"startTime":2361.495,"endTime":2365.676,"body":"a pub not far away called the wip, and the WIP was a national front"},{"startTime":2365.676,"endTime":2365.955,"body":"pub."},{"startTime":2366.295,"endTime":2370.08,"body":"And then also because some of the gay bars were still also predominantly white, there's"},{"startTime":2370.08,"endTime":2371.595,"body":"a sense of your new meat."},{"startTime":2372.215,"endTime":2376.427,"body":"So a lot of black folks would not go into town in in Chapel town,"},{"startTime":2376.427,"endTime":2379.235,"body":"even though you weren't out, you were kind of safe."},{"startTime":2381.385,"endTime":2387.788,"body":"Chapel town was, uh, the, an inner northern suburb known for Africa, Caribbean immigration, and"},{"startTime":2387.788,"endTime":2394.191,"body":"also streets with large houses lending themselves to communal squatting and often subsequently management by"},{"startTime":2394.191,"endTime":2395.045,"body":"housing cooperatives."},{"startTime":2395.715,"endTime":2402.165,"body":"This is the area where Ajamu who identified then as bisexual socialized in Shabis and"},{"startTime":2402.165,"endTime":2405.605,"body":"reggae clubs and also domestically for specifically Gacy."},{"startTime":2405.605,"endTime":2409.283,"body":"He would cross the pennines to Manchester rather than going into the center of Leeds"},{"startTime":2409.283,"endTime":2411.245,"body":"a couple of miles away or mile away."},{"startTime":2412.145,"endTime":2412.885,"body":"The large houses."},{"startTime":2412.955,"endTime":2418.499,"body":"Meanwhile enabled a lesbian feminist and separatist community to form and also to be sustained"},{"startTime":2418.499,"endTime":2422.565,"body":"with a social scene developing in rooms rented in local pubs."},{"startTime":2422.945,"endTime":2426.395,"body":"The Dock Green, which I rather lightly was a former police station, you can see"},{"startTime":2426.395,"endTime":2427.085,"body":"it pictured there."},{"startTime":2427.825,"endTime":2433.081,"body":"And also in an Afro-Caribbean community Center in Bradford, there wasn't the appetite or resource"},{"startTime":2433.081,"endTime":2438.338,"body":"amongst these women to establish city centers bus and city center bars at a moment"},{"startTime":2438.338,"endTime":2443.245,"body":"when the scene there was in decline and widely seen as unwelcoming to women."},{"startTime":2444.375,"endTime":2449.795,"body":"There was some sense of solidarity between the black and lesbian communities because of the"},{"startTime":2449.795,"endTime":2452.325,"body":"particularly active neofascist groups in the city."},{"startTime":2453.385,"endTime":2457.866,"body":"The national front was something that brought a lot of people together in opposition, said"},{"startTime":2457.866,"endTime":2458.165,"body":"Yvonne."},{"startTime":2458.465,"endTime":2463.107,"body":"Really the only people who supported our community was the black community and the only"},{"startTime":2463.107,"endTime":2464.965,"body":"people who supported them were us."},{"startTime":2465.265,"endTime":2470.482,"body":"And so a very close link developed in the seventies, ad hoc, not official, she"},{"startTime":2470.482,"endTime":2475.7,"body":"said when gay pride was switched from London to Huddersfield at the last minute in"},{"startTime":2475.7,"endTime":2480.917,"body":"1981 to protest against ex escalating police activity against gay men in what had previously"},{"startTime":2480.917,"endTime":2483.005,"body":"been a fairly convivial queer hub."},{"startTime":2483.575,"endTime":2489.495,"body":"March marches in Huddersfield traveled into nearby Leeds after the march to join the 20,000"},{"startTime":2489.495,"endTime":2495.415,"body":"people gathered in Harehills Potters, potters Newton Park for the camp for the Northern Carnival"},{"startTime":2495.415,"endTime":2496.205,"body":"against racism."},{"startTime":2496.705,"endTime":2501.721,"body":"And this is a repeated theme of the seventies and eighties, this interconnectedness of politics,"},{"startTime":2501.721,"endTime":2502.725,"body":"activism, and counterculture."},{"startTime":2504.755,"endTime":2510.54,"body":"The particular separatism, the particular separatist politics in Leeds was partly to do with the"},{"startTime":2510.54,"endTime":2516.326,"body":"early emergence of the women's liberation movement here from, um, its out, its, its, um,"},{"startTime":2516.326,"endTime":2522.112,"body":"inception in 1969, but it was also fired and consolidated in anger at the horrific"},{"startTime":2522.112,"endTime":2523.655,"body":"murders by Peter Sutcliffe."},{"startTime":2523.675,"endTime":2527.935,"body":"The so-called Yorkshire Ripper between 1975 and 1981."},{"startTime":2528.315,"endTime":2533.911,"body":"And the misogyny, which laced the press and police response, women against violence against women"},{"startTime":2533.911,"endTime":2538.015,"body":"were especially active here, as was the reclaim the night movement."},{"startTime":2538.995,"endTime":2544.368,"body":"By the late seventies, there were all women working collectives, art and theater projects, and"},{"startTime":2544.368,"endTime":2549.742,"body":"also early self insemination networks aided by a local anti-sexist gay men, uh, men's group,"},{"startTime":2549.742,"endTime":2551.175,"body":"not gay men's group."},{"startTime":2552.025,"endTime":2557.73,"body":"There was thus a strong sense in inner north Leeds of a distinct lesbian counterculture"},{"startTime":2557.73,"endTime":2562.295,"body":"and community, which was transformative for many if alienated for some others."},{"startTime":2563.235,"endTime":2568.131,"body":"What's also clear in Leeds is the ways the suburbs and satellite towns came to"},{"startTime":2568.131,"endTime":2572.375,"body":"matter, queerly in the seventies and eighties, much more than the EDGY Center."},{"startTime":2573.875,"endTime":2579.595,"body":"This began to shift in the 19, in the late 1980s when lesbian initiated initiated"},{"startTime":2579.595,"endTime":2585.316,"body":"action against Clause 28 drew gay men to the kind of joint campaigning that had"},{"startTime":2585.316,"endTime":2587.605,"body":"waned here in the early seventies."},{"startTime":2588.555,"endTime":2591.405,"body":"Kwin remembers walking with men for the first time."},{"startTime":2591.985,"endTime":2594.805,"body":"We were talking about joint efforts about being lesbian and gay."},{"startTime":2594.955,"endTime":2596.365,"body":"This was new, it was scary."},{"startTime":2597.175,"endTime":2602.659,"body":"There was also much more mixed socializing from the late eighties, including at the biannual"},{"startTime":2602.659,"endTime":2608.143,"body":"Victor Victoria costume balls, which were huge events, significant not just in their scale, said"},{"startTime":2608.143,"endTime":2613.628,"body":"Edwin, but because they were with men, the area around the new penny was meanwhile"},{"startTime":2613.628,"endTime":2614.725,"body":"beginning to gentrify."},{"startTime":2615.355,"endTime":2618.205,"body":"City center living was becoming generally fashionable again."},{"startTime":2618.645,"endTime":2623.157,"body":"A new and converted warehouse apartments in this area near the station appealed especially to"},{"startTime":2623.157,"endTime":2626.165,"body":"those who were traveling to and from London for work."},{"startTime":2626.425,"endTime":2632.811,"body":"As leads developed from a center of manufacture to a hub for legal and financial"},{"startTime":2632.811,"endTime":2637.495,"body":"services, the new bars reflected that by now established LGBT Identitarianism."},{"startTime":2637.915,"endTime":2643.375,"body":"But sex and Desire were still not only understood and experienced in these terms here."},{"startTime":2644.545,"endTime":2650.294,"body":"When the AIDS and Sexual health charity Mack was established in this part of the"},{"startTime":2650.294,"endTime":2656.043,"body":"city in 1990, it served deliberately men who had sex with men, an approach that"},{"startTime":2656.043,"endTime":2661.792,"body":"had been rejected in Brighton, where campaigning was directed very specifically at gay men in"},{"startTime":2661.792,"endTime":2664.475,"body":"ethnic, in ethnically and culturally diverse leads."},{"startTime":2664.815,"endTime":2670.001,"body":"It was more common in bright than in Brighton for men to have sex with"},{"startTime":2670.001,"endTime":2673.805,"body":"each other without claiming an associated, distinctive or exclusive sexual identity."},{"startTime":2674.185,"endTime":2680.405,"body":"Rather as in Plymouth earlier messaging targeting gay men made thus have missed its mark."},{"startTime":2681.805,"endTime":2687.91,"body":"A sense of this expansiveness and diversity was fostered at nearby wharf street chambers nearby"},{"startTime":2687.91,"endTime":2694.016,"body":"to mesac headquarters, an anti-capitalist workers cooperative, which began operating in 20 20 12 in"},{"startTime":2694.016,"endTime":2695.645,"body":"a disused hosiery factory."},{"startTime":2696.015,"endTime":2701.75,"body":"Again, the post-industrial landscape offering some queer potential social and support groups met here, and"},{"startTime":2701.75,"endTime":2707.485,"body":"it gained a particular reputation as a welcoming space for trend trans and gender non-binary."},{"startTime":2707.505,"endTime":2713.055,"body":"People who had previously often felt the need to travel or move from LEED for"},{"startTime":2713.055,"endTime":2718.605,"body":"community, notably to Manchester where there were longer standing networks and a different if still"},{"startTime":2718.605,"endTime":2720.085,"body":"uneven tradition of inclusivity."},{"startTime":2721.385,"endTime":2725.943,"body":"The central part of Leeds became a queer hub again, and there is a sense"},{"startTime":2725.943,"endTime":2730.502,"body":"of return in this, even though the shape and dimensions of community had shifted dramatically"},{"startTime":2730.502,"endTime":2733.845,"body":"since the days of the hope and anchor in the 1960s."},{"startTime":2735.225,"endTime":2741.063,"body":"In the years in between Leed queer life flourished mostly beyond this part of the"},{"startTime":2741.063,"endTime":2746.901,"body":"city in the suburbs and satellite towns, and through social and political networks converging in"},{"startTime":2746.901,"endTime":2752.739,"body":"community centers, the upstairs rooms of regular venues and people's homes, the scene was always"},{"startTime":2752.739,"endTime":2754.685,"body":"underground in Leeds said Ajamu."},{"startTime":2754.905,"endTime":2758.661,"body":"And as a result for people like Colin from Plymouth, if you said a gay"},{"startTime":2758.661,"endTime":2761.165,"body":"city, Leeds certainly wouldn't have come to mind at all."},{"startTime":2762.075,"endTime":2767.52,"body":"This was to do with geography and demographics with alternative social, sexual and political scenes"},{"startTime":2767.52,"endTime":2772.965,"body":"and with a local authority, which was supportive, but less proactively so than in Manchester."},{"startTime":2773.665,"endTime":2778.245,"body":"As a result, industrial decline played out differently on queer life here."},{"startTime":2781.545,"endTime":2782.645,"body":"So let me conclude."},{"startTime":2783.745,"endTime":2789.728,"body":"In the seventies, um, and eighties, pride was definitively apart from that trip to Huddersfield,"},{"startTime":2789.728,"endTime":2790.925,"body":"a London event."},{"startTime":2792.105,"endTime":2797.433,"body":"Now there's barely a weekend between June and September without a pride event in one"},{"startTime":2797.433,"endTime":2802.762,"body":"city or another across the uk, including Manchester, Brighton, and Plymouth, which held its first"},{"startTime":2802.762,"endTime":2805.605,"body":"pride later than the other cities in 2010."},{"startTime":2806.065,"endTime":2810.525,"body":"And typically for Plymouth out of public view in the city, inside the city hall."},{"startTime":2811.915,"endTime":2817.765,"body":"This fanning out of pride from the capitol in the 1990s, but especially the two"},{"startTime":2817.765,"endTime":2820.885,"body":"thousands speaks to shared queer coordinates and trajectories."},{"startTime":2821.895,"endTime":2828.26,"body":"These relate to shifts in understandings and experiences of identity and community to changing attitudes"},{"startTime":2828.26,"endTime":2834.625,"body":"and patterns of socializing to the internet and the inception of smartphones to legal change"},{"startTime":2834.625,"endTime":2838.445,"body":"and to processes of industrial decline and urban regeneration."},{"startTime":2839.665,"endTime":2845.075,"body":"We can point also to broad economic and occupational shifts towards the service sector, which"},{"startTime":2845.075,"endTime":2850.485,"body":"had an impact on queer scenes and flagged the new potential of the pink pound."},{"startTime":2851.505,"endTime":2857.245,"body":"Deindustrialization meant that in some cities there were vacant buildings ripe for queer conversion."},{"startTime":2858.595,"endTime":2863.778,"body":"This was part of a process of gentrification which made city center living and socializing"},{"startTime":2863.778,"endTime":2867.925,"body":"fashionable once again, especially for those who were single or child free."},{"startTime":2869.315,"endTime":2877.499,"body":"Some celebrated these shifts, others saw homogenizing commodification, commercialization and a loss of a radical"},{"startTime":2877.499,"endTime":2878.045,"body":"edge."},{"startTime":2879.015,"endTime":2882.085,"body":"There was though much unevenness in this process."},{"startTime":2882.625,"endTime":2889.186,"body":"The result I've suggested, a very particular local circumstances, the tenor of local government, the"},{"startTime":2889.186,"endTime":2895.748,"body":"scale and fervor of local L-G-B-T-Q and intersecting politics, the activities of the police and"},{"startTime":2895.748,"endTime":2899.685,"body":"neofascist groups, and then the particularity of local geography."},{"startTime":2901.145,"endTime":2907.476,"body":"Uh, demography and history modulated the way wider trends wider national, international trends played out"},{"startTime":2907.476,"endTime":2909.165,"body":"on local queer life."},{"startTime":2910.495,"endTime":2916.178,"body":"Hence, although pride as a feeling has been wrapped into queer identification since the 1970s,"},{"startTime":2916.178,"endTime":2920.725,"body":"it has had a different cadence in each of these different places."},{"startTime":2922.105,"endTime":2929.805,"body":"In Plymouth, there was a longstanding pride in passing in Manchester, a twisting together of"},{"startTime":2929.805,"endTime":2935.965,"body":"gay and civic pride in leads, a transformative feminist pride and politics."},{"startTime":2936.745,"endTime":2940.485,"body":"And in Brighton, a pride in self-expression, camp visibility."},{"startTime":2941.065,"endTime":2945.325,"body":"And in being as the council now proudly announces never normal."},{"startTime":2946.305,"endTime":2947.325,"body":"And I'll stop there."},{"startTime":2947.495,"endTime":2947.965,"body":"Thank you."},{"startTime":2953.575,"endTime":2954.045,"body":"Thank you."},{"startTime":2954.045,"endTime":2954.925,"body":"That was excellent."},{"startTime":2955.345,"endTime":2962.085,"body":"Um, I'm thinking about the contemporary vitriol and rhetoric leveled at, uh, trans people."},{"startTime":2962.545,"endTime":2966.533,"body":"I'm wondering how much you think that is a bit of history repeating itself with"},{"startTime":2966.533,"endTime":2969.725,"body":"some of the homophobia faced by the citizens of the 20th century?"},{"startTime":2970.195,"endTime":2970.965,"body":"Yeah, complete."},{"startTime":2970.965,"endTime":2973.485,"body":"Yeah, no, it, I think there's two things about history."},{"startTime":2973.525,"endTime":2978.819,"body":"I mean, the first is that the, that there's a very strong sense of being"},{"startTime":2978.819,"endTime":2979.525,"body":"there before."},{"startTime":2979.685,"endTime":2985.835,"body":"I mean, I, I came out in 1990 and the late eighties and early nineties,"},{"startTime":2985.835,"endTime":2991.985,"body":"the kind of homophobia and the particular rhetoric about danger to children and, and, and"},{"startTime":2991.985,"endTime":2998.135,"body":"these various other, and pretense and all these, all these various, um, you know, um,"},{"startTime":2998.135,"endTime":3004.285,"body":"homophobic the, um, strands of homophobic rhetoric are getting remobilize, um, a against trans people"},{"startTime":3004.285,"endTime":3005.925,"body":"in, in the present."},{"startTime":3006.065,"endTime":3010.045,"body":"And, and, and surprise, surprise in the runup also to, to, to a general election."},{"startTime":3010.345,"endTime":3015.58,"body":"But I suppose what I'd add to that, maybe in a way that I think,"},{"startTime":3015.58,"endTime":3020.816,"body":"you know, gives us maybe some hope, is that I think the emergence and flourishing"},{"startTime":3020.816,"endTime":3026.052,"body":"of trans historical work of trans history, um, and queer historical work that, um, includes"},{"startTime":3026.052,"endTime":3028.845,"body":"work on, on trans people, um, and networks."},{"startTime":3029.445,"endTime":3035.702,"body":"I think it really, um, gives the lie to the current transphobic rhetoric that trans"},{"startTime":3035.702,"endTime":3041.125,"body":"is, that trans being, trans being gender non-binary is something new and modish."},{"startTime":3041.425,"endTime":3045.686,"body":"So I think this kind of deeper history and the particular ways in which trans"},{"startTime":3045.686,"endTime":3049.947,"body":"identities and communities have formed in different places across the UK is a really important,"},{"startTime":3049.947,"endTime":3053.925,"body":"um, you know, part of the, of the histories that we're trying to mobilize."},{"startTime":3054.185,"endTime":3058.999,"body":"And it, and it goes back to that kind of seventies, um, insistence that history"},{"startTime":3058.999,"endTime":3060.925,"body":"is personal and history is political."},{"startTime":3061.305,"endTime":3066.005,"body":"So this is why these histories matter, because if we don't make these histories, then"},{"startTime":3066.005,"endTime":3070.705,"body":"the transphobes, the homophobes get away with this presumption, this insistence, um, that these identities"},{"startTime":3070.705,"endTime":3073.525,"body":"and communities, um, are somehow only of the present."},{"startTime":3076.235,"endTime":3076.525,"body":"Cool."},{"startTime":3076.545,"endTime":3079.405,"body":"Um, I'll, I'll take one from, uh, from Slido next."},{"startTime":3079.505,"endTime":3085.085,"body":"Um, the, uh, you, you've talked about four very different places, uh, across England."},{"startTime":3085.825,"endTime":3090.747,"body":"Um, what do you think those places, the culture of those places had in common"},{"startTime":3090.747,"endTime":3093.045,"body":"over the period you've been looking at?"},{"startTime":3093.985,"endTime":3098.529,"body":"Um, so in a way, what they have in common actually is, I mean, I"},{"startTime":3098.529,"endTime":3103.073,"body":"think you can really look at each decade and you can identify, um, some, some,"},{"startTime":3103.073,"endTime":3104.285,"body":"some, some common features."},{"startTime":3104.325,"endTime":3107.695,"body":"I mean, I talked about the kind of, there was a real resonance with some"},{"startTime":3107.695,"endTime":3111.066,"body":"of these kind of, um, queerish, I've called them pubs, where there was a real"},{"startTime":3111.066,"endTime":3114.437,"body":"crossover of people gathering, and it was kind of more or less the only place"},{"startTime":3114.437,"endTime":3116.685,"body":"in the city where you might, you might go socialize."},{"startTime":3117.225,"endTime":3121.845,"body":"Um, and so you can see, um, you know, um, um, factors like that."},{"startTime":3121.965,"endTime":3127.522,"body":"I think you can also see, you know, a commonality in terms of, um, music"},{"startTime":3127.522,"endTime":3129.005,"body":"cultures, some performance cultures."},{"startTime":3129.365,"endTime":3134.188,"body":"I think there's that sense from the kind of, um, two thousands of smartphones and"},{"startTime":3134.188,"endTime":3137.725,"body":"the internet kind of maybe homogenizing in some ways queer culture."},{"startTime":3138.345,"endTime":3141.125,"body":"And, and yet I'm a bit resistant to these commonalities."},{"startTime":3141.245,"endTime":3145.511,"body":"I think that that, you know, it's not to deny them at all, but I"},{"startTime":3145.511,"endTime":3149.778,"body":"think what we start to miss is, for example, the very particular impacts of the"},{"startTime":3149.778,"endTime":3154.044,"body":"AIDS crisis, for example, on certain parts of the, of, uh, certain cities and certain"},{"startTime":3154.044,"endTime":3158.311,"body":"places in the UK as opposed to others, um, and the different levels of fear,"},{"startTime":3158.311,"endTime":3161.725,"body":"um, and community, um, coming together in those, in those different contexts."},{"startTime":3161.985,"endTime":3165.879,"body":"Um, and I think we can also see, you know, there's, you know, there's a"},{"startTime":3165.879,"endTime":3169.773,"body":"kind of tangible difference between the kind of two northern scenes scenes of Leeds in"},{"startTime":3169.773,"endTime":3173.667,"body":"Manchester, for example, for the, all the reasons I've talked about as well as things"},{"startTime":3173.667,"endTime":3174.965,"body":"that make them, um, alike."},{"startTime":3174.985,"endTime":3177.405,"body":"And there's a kind of considerable crossover as well."},{"startTime":3177.725,"endTime":3178.085,"body":"I suppose"},{"startTime":3179.585,"endTime":3183.421,"body":"If I was going to call it, I'd say that the biggest commonalities are between"},{"startTime":3183.421,"endTime":3184.445,"body":"Manchester Le and Brighton."},{"startTime":3184.965,"endTime":3188.829,"body":"I think the fascinate the most, I mean, they were all fascinating in different ways,"},{"startTime":3188.829,"endTime":3191.405,"body":"but, but for me, the most fascinating city was Plymouth."},{"startTime":3191.445,"endTime":3196.226,"body":"I mean, it was our kind of wild card case study, um, and it really"},{"startTime":3196.226,"endTime":3201.007,"body":"threw up a very different dynamic and it threw up this kind of interest, really"},{"startTime":3201.007,"endTime":3201.645,"body":"interesting nostalgia."},{"startTime":3201.645,"endTime":3205.863,"body":"So we tend to think about this, um, you know, trajectory where, you know, it"},{"startTime":3205.863,"endTime":3210.081,"body":"was all terrible and now we are here and the laws change and everything's much"},{"startTime":3210.081,"endTime":3210.925,"body":"better, um, supposedly."},{"startTime":3211.185,"endTime":3215.563,"body":"Um, but in Plymouth there was a real nostalgia for a very different form of"},{"startTime":3215.563,"endTime":3219.941,"body":"community, a very different form of coming together for both lesbians and gay men in"},{"startTime":3219.941,"endTime":3220.525,"body":"the city."},{"startTime":3220.585,"endTime":3224.535,"body":"And I thought, I thought there was something really interesting about that, and that really"},{"startTime":3224.535,"endTime":3228.485,"body":"informed the way in which community and identity were understood in the present as well."},{"startTime":3229.485,"endTime":3229.685,"body":"Excellent."},{"startTime":3229.685,"endTime":3230.165,"body":"Thanks very much."},{"startTime":3230.465,"endTime":3233.165,"body":"Um, any questions in the room before I take another one from Slido?"},{"startTime":3236.505,"endTime":3237.285,"body":"Hi, thank you so much."},{"startTime":3237.665,"endTime":3241.837,"body":"Um, would you speculate on what the future of queer England could look like given"},{"startTime":3241.837,"endTime":3246.01,"body":"the ties that you brought up between economy and military hubs in the city and"},{"startTime":3246.01,"endTime":3246.845,"body":"things like that?"},{"startTime":3246.905,"endTime":3250.882,"body":"As the country's changing with cost of living crisis, what do you think the future"},{"startTime":3250.882,"endTime":3254.859,"body":"of queer England could look like as people are moving differently and living in different"},{"startTime":3254.859,"endTime":3255.125,"body":"places?"},{"startTime":3256.185,"endTime":3259.845,"body":"That's a really wonderful and unanswerable question."},{"startTime":3260.245,"endTime":3265.245,"body":"\u003claugh\u003e."},{"startTime":3262.625,"endTime":3263.645,"body":"No, no, no, no, no."},{"startTime":3263.645,"endTime":3267.95,"body":"It's very interesting to reflect upon, and in a way, one of the reasons why"},{"startTime":3267.95,"endTime":3272.256,"body":"I think we talk about the growing homo homogeneity of queer cultures, um, is partly"},{"startTime":3272.256,"endTime":3273.405,"body":"because of economic change."},{"startTime":3273.505,"endTime":3279.447,"body":"So actually the, you know, the, our our, you know, the distinctive, um, economy of"},{"startTime":3279.447,"endTime":3283.805,"body":"Plymouth, for example, and of Manchester of Leeds, um, has shifted."},{"startTime":3284.425,"endTime":3288.041,"body":"Um, and there's much more in common between those three economies than there was even"},{"startTime":3288.041,"endTime":3288.765,"body":"20 years ago."},{"startTime":3288.825,"endTime":3290.125,"body":"And that really makes a difference."},{"startTime":3290.125,"endTime":3294.383,"body":"I, I mean, I, I'm not an economic historian, but I became convinced doing this,"},{"startTime":3294.383,"endTime":3298.642,"body":"working on this project that the work people do and the economies of local paper"},{"startTime":3298.642,"endTime":3301.765,"body":"really matter to the way in which they think about themselves."},{"startTime":3301.985,"endTime":3306.775,"body":"And so I think in a way, you could, you could talk about a kind"},{"startTime":3306.775,"endTime":3311.566,"body":"of movement towards the service sector re inflecting, um, and homogenizing queer culture, um, in,"},{"startTime":3311.566,"endTime":3312.525,"body":"into the future."},{"startTime":3313.105,"endTime":3316.725,"body":"Um, so that's, suppose that's one thing, um, to, to reflect upon."},{"startTime":3316.985,"endTime":3320.76,"body":"The other thing that I think is really notable, you, you, you, you, you have"},{"startTime":3320.76,"endTime":3324.285,"body":"spotted maybe that I talked a bit about house prices in Manchester and Brighton."},{"startTime":3324.705,"endTime":3329.464,"body":"Um, and I think one of the things that is going to happen increasingly is,"},{"startTime":3329.464,"endTime":3334.223,"body":"um, a a greater spread, um, of, of, of queer individuals and, and, and, and"},{"startTime":3334.223,"endTime":3336.445,"body":"a community that's networked over larger areas."},{"startTime":3336.675,"endTime":3341.359,"body":"Because Brighton, you know, it was really interesting in Brighton, interesting stroke, sad in Brighton"},{"startTime":3341.359,"endTime":3346.043,"body":"to interview El older L-G-B-T-Q, people who felt priced outta a city that they'd lived"},{"startTime":3346.043,"endTime":3350.728,"body":"in for 30 years and were moving along the coast, some of them, to places"},{"startTime":3350.728,"endTime":3355.412,"body":"where they'd started out and left because of the homophobic attacks and abuse they'd received"},{"startTime":3355.412,"endTime":3355.725,"body":"there."},{"startTime":3356.105,"endTime":3359.118,"body":"And I think this kind of, and I think you're seeing the same in Manchester"},{"startTime":3359.118,"endTime":3360.525,"body":"kind of spread out from the city."},{"startTime":3361.025,"endTime":3366.21,"body":"Um, and I wonder whether, um, we're going to see, um, you know, also a"},{"startTime":3366.21,"endTime":3368.285,"body":"a, a social attitudes change unevenly."},{"startTime":3368.785,"endTime":3374.05,"body":"Um, I wonder whether we are going to see a greater spread and the significance"},{"startTime":3374.05,"endTime":3375.805,"body":"of online networks connecting people."},{"startTime":3376.145,"endTime":3380.097,"body":"And I think that might be something to kind of reflect on, um, maybe my"},{"startTime":3380.097,"endTime":3382.205,"body":"retirement project in, in 10, 10 years time."},{"startTime":3384.105,"endTime":3388.279,"body":"Uh, ladies and gentlemen, it's been a, a terrific, terrific evening of, of some fascinating"},{"startTime":3388.279,"endTime":3392.453,"body":"insights, not just into, uh, queer culture, but into a, a wonderful reminder of the"},{"startTime":3392.453,"endTime":3396.627,"body":"fact that the history of, of England and the history of Great Britain isn't just"},{"startTime":3396.627,"endTime":3400.245,"body":"the history of London, uh, but it's the history of the whole country."},{"startTime":3400.665,"endTime":3405.445,"body":"Uh, please join me in thanking our speaker this evening, uh, professor Macka."},{"startTime":3405.445,"endTime":3405.805,"body":"Thank you."}]}