{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":7.995,"endTime":9.125,"body":"Good evening everybody."},{"startTime":11.105,"endTime":20.301,"body":"The concern of this talk is with learned systems of magic, defining magic AZ tech"},{"startTime":20.301,"endTime":28.885,"body":"to bring about material change by uncanny means at the will of the performer."},{"startTime":30.545,"endTime":33.835,"body":"Will we ever be able to see beyond the current observable universe?"},{"startTime":34.255,"endTime":35.275,"body":"Oh, it's much worse than that."},{"startTime":35.415,"endTime":37.195,"body":"The observable universe is shrinking."},{"startTime":37.775,"endTime":42.191,"body":"If you want to know what are my odds of winning the lottery, you come"},{"startTime":42.191,"endTime":43.075,"body":"straight to probability."},{"startTime":43.145,"endTime":47.315,"body":"Yeah, because probability is all about how likely or not events are to happen."},{"startTime":47.875,"endTime":52.257,"body":"I think the chance of there being an undiscovered second species, very like humans out"},{"startTime":52.257,"endTime":54.595,"body":"there in the world today is pretty slender."},{"startTime":54.705,"endTime":55.195,"body":"However,"},{"startTime":55.815,"endTime":57.755,"body":"And these are the pictures if you haven't seen them."},{"startTime":57.915,"endTime":59.075,"body":"I mean, New York was orange."},{"startTime":59.375,"endTime":60.355,"body":"The air was orange."},{"startTime":60.585,"endTime":64.435,"body":"They said one day out in that air was like smoking a pack of cigarettes."},{"startTime":64.575,"endTime":67.635,"body":"It had the same effect on the lungs as smoking a number of cigarettes."},{"startTime":67.635,"endTime":70.698,"body":"So people who'd never smoked in their life were suddenly going to suffer some of"},{"startTime":70.698,"endTime":71.515,"body":"the same health effects."},{"startTime":72.335,"endTime":76.643,"body":"Any further questions is a brand new podcast from Gresham College, a place where we"},{"startTime":76.643,"endTime":79.515,"body":"ask our speakers all of your questions that went unanswered."},{"startTime":79.515,"endTime":85.248,"body":"Following their lecture, guests have included Ronald Hutton, Robin May, Chris Lin tot, Sarah Hart"},{"startTime":85.248,"endTime":86.395,"body":"and Maggie snowing."},{"startTime":86.855,"endTime":87.755,"body":"Any further questions?"},{"startTime":88.015,"endTime":90.715,"body":"All episodes are available wherever you listen to your podcasts"},{"startTime":97.385,"endTime":106.235,"body":"And what makes these systems tonight learned is a combination of written texts, formal conation,"},{"startTime":106.235,"endTime":108.005,"body":"and special equipment."},{"startTime":108.835,"endTime":117.005,"body":"Such systems are historically a feature of Europe, the Mediterranean world, and the Middle East."},{"startTime":117.225,"endTime":125.725,"body":"In particular, this lecture represents an attempt to sketch out a framework of its history."},{"startTime":126.505,"endTime":134.593,"body":"It is a history based on some of the main material of any historian, textual"},{"startTime":134.593,"endTime":140.525,"body":"information, which can show a continuous transmission and development across time."},{"startTime":141.795,"endTime":149.617,"body":"Lots of manuscripts of ceremonial magic survive from all periods since the ancient world to"},{"startTime":149.617,"endTime":157.44,"body":"allow the identification of key works and genres and the tracing of their passage between"},{"startTime":157.44,"endTime":159.005,"body":"cultures and languages."},{"startTime":159.605,"endTime":161.645,"body":"A magic really travels."},{"startTime":162.545,"endTime":166.165,"body":"Its works were translated from Greek to Arabic and Latin."},{"startTime":166.635,"endTime":171.645,"body":"From Arabic to Latin and Greek, from Hebrew to Latin, and vice versa."},{"startTime":172.545,"endTime":180.566,"body":"And from all of these and the everyday languages of different peoples enough have now"},{"startTime":180.566,"endTime":188.587,"body":"been edited and published, and enough research has been conducted upon them in particular periods"},{"startTime":188.587,"endTime":195.005,"body":"of history for an overall narrative of their development to be possible."},{"startTime":195.715,"endTime":203.338,"body":"Such an enterprise, however, still awaits an author in 1997, Richard Ke Heifer, who is"},{"startTime":203.338,"endTime":210.962,"body":"the lovely old man on the screen and is the foremost current scholar of medieval"},{"startTime":210.962,"endTime":218.586,"body":"magic, could say that one might easily persuaded that there is a history of the"},{"startTime":218.586,"endTime":224.685,"body":"uses of magic and reactions to magic, but not of magic itself."},{"startTime":225.595,"endTime":234.442,"body":"Virtually every magical technique seems timeless and perennial and Richard accordingly declined the temptation to"},{"startTime":234.442,"endTime":243.289,"body":"next quote, wander endlessly through the thickets of the history of magic from the Greek"},{"startTime":243.289,"endTime":252.136,"body":"magical papyri of antiquity through Arabic and Byzantine sources onto the grise, the magical texts"},{"startTime":252.136,"endTime":255.085,"body":"of the early modern era."},{"startTime":255.985,"endTime":257.925,"body":"So you got your machetes ready."},{"startTime":258.595,"endTime":266.089,"body":"Tonight we're gonna cut a path through Keek heifer's, thickets along precisely the root of"},{"startTime":266.089,"endTime":272.085,"body":"which he spoke, and see if any continuous tradition can be identified."},{"startTime":273.025,"endTime":279.675,"body":"So let's start where he would've started it in ancient Egypt, can't go much further"},{"startTime":279.675,"endTime":281.005,"body":"back than that."},{"startTime":282.665,"endTime":291.29,"body":"Its culture was unified by the belief that the cosmos was animated and controlled by"},{"startTime":291.29,"endTime":294.165,"body":"a morally neutral spiritual power."},{"startTime":294.835,"endTime":302.148,"body":"This was manipulated by the goddesses and gods to regulate and maintain the natural order,"},{"startTime":302.148,"endTime":309.462,"body":"but it could be used against them and employed by human beings independently and for"},{"startTime":309.462,"endTime":310.925,"body":"their own ends."},{"startTime":311.665,"endTime":320.458,"body":"The mobilization of it consisted of ritual to unite the necessary words and materials through"},{"startTime":320.458,"endTime":321.045,"body":"action."},{"startTime":322.025,"endTime":328.896,"body":"As Dees were adept in magic, they were believed to sanction its use by humans"},{"startTime":328.896,"endTime":331.645,"body":"who paid them the necessary respect."},{"startTime":332.425,"endTime":340.577,"body":"But aha, those humans once empowered, were also seen as capable of using it to"},{"startTime":340.577,"endTime":344.925,"body":"threaten and coerce deities to do their will."},{"startTime":345.745,"endTime":353.807,"body":"And this procedure was regarded as perfectly respectable and it's attested in Egyptian texts from"},{"startTime":353.807,"endTime":358.645,"body":"roundabout four and a half thousand years ago onwards."},{"startTime":359.355,"endTime":368.045,"body":"Furthermore, those texts lack any sense of a distinction between religious and magical acts."},{"startTime":368.755,"endTime":376.859,"body":"They mingle praise and threats, prayers and demands to all divine beings, and the same"},{"startTime":376.859,"endTime":384.964,"body":"invocation can be used either to honor a deity or to obtain private advantage to"},{"startTime":384.964,"endTime":386.045,"body":"a person."},{"startTime":387.265,"endTime":395.587,"body":"The usual authors and performers of magical acts on behalf of people in general were"},{"startTime":395.587,"endTime":402.245,"body":"functionaries of the official and orthodox religion and attached to its temples."},{"startTime":403.145,"endTime":410.15,"body":"One type of official acted as both priest and magician as required by people from"},{"startTime":410.15,"endTime":411.085,"body":"the neighborhood."},{"startTime":412.145,"endTime":420.451,"body":"The practice of magic was quite legal even when performed viciously against public and private"},{"startTime":420.451,"endTime":421.005,"body":"enemies."},{"startTime":421.745,"endTime":430.131,"body":"The category of behavior known in English in the negative sense as witchcraft was therefore"},{"startTime":430.131,"endTime":434.045,"body":"both unknown and meaningless in Egyptian culture."},{"startTime":436.775,"endTime":445.071,"body":"It's interesting to compare such attitudes with those of other civilizations of the ancients near"},{"startTime":445.071,"endTime":445.625,"body":"East."},{"startTime":448.005,"endTime":456.66,"body":"The material from Mesopotamia, the great civilizations of Babylonia and Assyria shows no sign that"},{"startTime":456.66,"endTime":465.316,"body":"human beings were believed to be capable of pushing deities around or even commanding lesser"},{"startTime":465.316,"endTime":467.625,"body":"spirits without divine help."},{"startTime":469.325,"endTime":477.041,"body":"It also identifies deities much more with heavenly bodies and makes a practice of timing"},{"startTime":477.041,"endTime":482.185,"body":"important actions in harmony with the movements of the sky."},{"startTime":483.055,"endTime":491.793,"body":"This is of course why Assyria and Babylonia became the birthplace of the later Western"},{"startTime":491.793,"endTime":500.531,"body":"tradition of astrology, a tradition which can certainly be traced in continuous development From there"},{"startTime":500.531,"endTime":508.105,"body":"to the present, the Mesopotamian texts also show an acute fear of witchcraft."},{"startTime":508.935,"endTime":516.949,"body":"This is displayed both in the huge number of spells designed to counteract magic employed"},{"startTime":516.949,"endTime":524.964,"body":"secretly and maliciously by human beings, and in the law codes which prescribe penalties for"},{"startTime":524.964,"endTime":528.705,"body":"such a use of it usually death."},{"startTime":530.165,"endTime":539.433,"body":"Indeed, the later notorious test for a witch of throwing the suspect into water at"},{"startTime":539.433,"endTime":548.701,"body":"attributing guilt according to whether they sank or floated, is first recorded the Babylonian law"},{"startTime":548.701,"endTime":553.645,"body":"Code of Hambi roundabout 1800 BCE, or bc."},{"startTime":555.345,"endTime":564.581,"body":"The Mesopotamian texts also manifest an equally considerable fear of spirits, which personified essential evil"},{"startTime":564.581,"endTime":567.045,"body":"in the natural world."},{"startTime":567.585,"endTime":571.325,"body":"The Greeks were to give the name demons to these."},{"startTime":572.315,"endTime":580.538,"body":"Some witches were believed to empower themselves further by working with these as partners and"},{"startTime":580.538,"endTime":584.925,"body":"generally, Mesopotamian witches were perceived to be female."},{"startTime":585.995,"endTime":593.883,"body":"What I've termed the Mesopotamian tradition seems to have obtained throughout the fertile Crescent, right"},{"startTime":593.883,"endTime":601.771,"body":"round through Syria, down to Palestine, and including what became the increasingly distinctive culture of"},{"startTime":601.771,"endTime":609.66,"body":"the ancient Hebrews, the emphasis that the Hebrews came to place on a single jealous"},{"startTime":609.66,"endTime":615.445,"body":"tribal, God gave a particular twist to its attitudes to magic."},{"startTime":616.435,"endTime":623.594,"body":"This was to outlaw the use of arcane powers among Hebrews, which were not used"},{"startTime":623.594,"endTime":628.845,"body":"by the priests of their God, but in every other respect."},{"startTime":628.845,"endTime":637.817,"body":"However, ancient Hebrew attitudes match those of Mesopotamia and Syria in general, including in the"},{"startTime":637.817,"endTime":642.005,"body":"notorious prescription in the Book of Exodus."},{"startTime":642.475,"endTime":650.703,"body":"Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live the situation in the ancient European world"},{"startTime":650.703,"endTime":658.931,"body":"as manifested in the cultures of Greece and Rome was different again, but makes us"},{"startTime":658.931,"endTime":667.159,"body":"striking a contrast with that of Egypt as the Mesopotamian one did, both Greeks and"},{"startTime":667.159,"endTime":672.645,"body":"Romans made a clear theoretical distinction between religion and magic."},{"startTime":673.475,"endTime":680.315,"body":"It's the one I've been implicitly using in this talk, not least in suggesting that"},{"startTime":680.315,"endTime":687.156,"body":"the Egyptians didn't have it, it has indeed remained the standard Western tool for distinguishing"},{"startTime":687.156,"endTime":688.525,"body":"between the two."},{"startTime":688.595,"endTime":697.646,"body":"Ever since passing into Christian and then into modern scholarly culture, it's regarded religion as"},{"startTime":697.646,"endTime":704.285,"body":"a set of respectful relationships made by human with superhuman beings."},{"startTime":705.105,"endTime":711.386,"body":"If the humans wanted something from those deities, then they had to ask them for"},{"startTime":711.386,"endTime":711.805,"body":"it."},{"startTime":712.785,"endTime":719.085,"body":"And the super humans then scratch their immortal heads and decided whether or not they"},{"startTime":719.085,"endTime":719.925,"body":"would oblige."},{"startTime":720.675,"endTime":728.419,"body":"Certainly set ritual formulae could assist the request, but the volition to enact a response"},{"startTime":728.419,"endTime":730.485,"body":"remained with the deity."},{"startTime":731.615,"endTime":741.95,"body":"Magic by contrast, represented a range of processes and techniques by which humans could tap"},{"startTime":741.95,"endTime":746.085,"body":"into supernatural or preternatural power themselves."},{"startTime":746.875,"endTime":753.645,"body":"They thereby obtained some degree of personal power in affecting the results."},{"startTime":754.995,"endTime":763.71,"body":"It's vital for an understanding of classical Greek and Roman culture and indeed of subsequent"},{"startTime":763.71,"endTime":772.426,"body":"history to emphasize that official Greek and Roman attitudes since sufficient records begin in the"},{"startTime":772.426,"endTime":781.141,"body":"fifth century, B, c, E, or BBC stigmatized magic as just defined as a suspicious"},{"startTime":781.141,"endTime":782.885,"body":"and dangerous activity."},{"startTime":783.665,"endTime":786.485,"body":"Greeks and Romans did not like magicians."},{"startTime":787.685,"endTime":795.765,"body":"Athenian playwrights referred to them under a range of terms as shabby and disreputable characters."},{"startTime":796.545,"endTime":803.22,"body":"And by the end of the fifth century, the medical texts on the sacred disease"},{"startTime":803.22,"endTime":809.005,"body":"about epilepsy made the classical distinction between religion and magic summed up above."},{"startTime":809.665,"endTime":813.925,"body":"So did Plato, the great philosopher, a generation later."},{"startTime":814.545,"endTime":816.725,"body":"And from then on, it seems standard."},{"startTime":817.785,"endTime":823.726,"body":"It may have been a product of the fifth century, b, c, e as some"},{"startTime":823.726,"endTime":829.668,"body":"have suggested, but sources for the subject are so much rarer before them that it"},{"startTime":829.668,"endTime":832.045,"body":"could possibly be prehistoric in Europe."},{"startTime":833.185,"endTime":840.887,"body":"In recent debates over the use of the term magic and its relationship with religion,"},{"startTime":840.887,"endTime":848.59,"body":"modern scholars have sometimes assumed that a distinction between the two was the product of"},{"startTime":848.59,"endTime":853.725,"body":"Victorian and Edwardian scholars, or of Protestantism or of Christianity."},{"startTime":854.715,"endTime":859.485,"body":"Instead, it goes right to the roots of European civilization."},{"startTime":860.055,"endTime":864.845,"body":"Officially, Europeans have never liked and trusted magic."},{"startTime":866.425,"endTime":872.848,"body":"It needs to be emphasized, therefore, that there isn't a single text from ancient Greece"},{"startTime":872.848,"endTime":879.271,"body":"or Rome in which the author argues against the notion that to try and control"},{"startTime":879.271,"endTime":883.125,"body":"or manipulate goddesses and gods is a bad thing."},{"startTime":884.285,"endTime":890.078,"body":"A general component of Greek and Roman culture is you don't try and push goddesses"},{"startTime":890.078,"endTime":895.485,"body":"and gods around the way they do in Egypt because otherwise you get blitzed."},{"startTime":897.865,"endTime":907.471,"body":"As such, this distinction runs through legal cases reported from the Imperial Roman period, both"},{"startTime":907.471,"endTime":917.078,"body":"the holy man apollonius of Tiana and the novelist, Aus allegedly escaped conviction and execution"},{"startTime":917.078,"endTime":925.405,"body":"on charges of working magic by claiming they merely asked deities for help."},{"startTime":926.815,"endTime":934.796,"body":"Pliny the natural historian, Seneca, the politician and playwright both condemned magic as an attempt"},{"startTime":934.796,"endTime":936.925,"body":"to push deities around."},{"startTime":937.665,"endTime":946.593,"body":"And the philosopher plaus attacked rival philosophers by accusing them of using incantations designed to"},{"startTime":946.593,"endTime":950.165,"body":"compel higher powers to their will."},{"startTime":951.425,"endTime":962.09,"body":"And Plaus successor IUs defended himself against exactly that charge by declaring that unlike common"},{"startTime":962.09,"endTime":972.045,"body":"magicians, he and his pupils used only practices prescribed and assisted by respectable deities."},{"startTime":973.355,"endTime":979.645,"body":"This hostility of magic got worse and worse and more and more systematic."},{"startTime":980.345,"endTime":987.863,"body":"As the Roman empire went on transplanted into Christian theological monotheism and dualism and reinforced"},{"startTime":987.863,"endTime":995.381,"body":"by the Near East and the horror of demons, it became part of the teachings"},{"startTime":995.381,"endTime":996.885,"body":"of medieval churches."},{"startTime":998.365,"endTime":1005.96,"body":"Moreover, the Romans, unlike the Greeks, also appear to have been big time witch hunters"},{"startTime":1005.96,"endTime":1013.555,"body":"in the second century, b, CE, they seem to have launched trials of people accused"},{"startTime":1013.555,"endTime":1019.125,"body":"of harmful magic, which claimed 3000 victims in just one hunt."},{"startTime":1020.025,"endTime":1023.445,"body":"That's a body count bigger than anything achieved."},{"startTime":1023.695,"endTime":1025.925,"body":"Later in Christian witch trials."},{"startTime":1026.983,"endTime":1034.341,"body":"By the last century before the Christian era, the Romans were generating literary images of"},{"startTime":1034.341,"endTime":1037.285,"body":"evil and predatory old female witches."},{"startTime":1037.944,"endTime":1040.605,"body":"And these were remarkably endearing."},{"startTime":1041.505,"endTime":1050.171,"body":"The most famous witches in English literature must be those in Shakespeare's Scottish play, and"},{"startTime":1050.171,"endTime":1058.838,"body":"most people will know Shakespeare's incantation with the jingle, double double toil and trouble fire"},{"startTime":1058.838,"endTime":1067.505,"body":"burn and Cauldron bubble C er may realize it's based on lines from the work"},{"startTime":1067.505,"endTime":1072.705,"body":"of the Roman poet Horace 1600 years before Shakespeare."},{"startTime":1073.445,"endTime":1081.522,"body":"So the obvious question to pose now perhaps is what happened when Egypt became Roman"},{"startTime":1081.522,"endTime":1087.985,"body":"and the starkly contrasted sets of cultural attitudes crashed into each other."},{"startTime":1090.445,"endTime":1093.665,"body":"The answer was extremely creative."},{"startTime":1095.035,"endTime":1102.026,"body":"Roman rule eroded both the financial support of the Egyptian temple system and the privileges"},{"startTime":1102.026,"endTime":1103.425,"body":"of its priests."},{"startTime":1104.285,"endTime":1111.954,"body":"And since the priests were now going broke, the magician priests were forced out into"},{"startTime":1111.954,"endTime":1119.623,"body":"wider society, and the process produced a notable development in their practices recorded in the"},{"startTime":1119.623,"endTime":1124.225,"body":"text we call the Greek and Adic magical papyri."},{"startTime":1125.075,"endTime":1134.209,"body":"While the attitudes, techniques, and contents of magical operations represented a continuation of previous Egyptian"},{"startTime":1134.209,"endTime":1143.343,"body":"tradition, the scope of those operations became more elaborate and ambitious culturally, they were much"},{"startTime":1143.343,"endTime":1152.477,"body":"more eclectic than before, importing figures, rights and ideas from all over the Roman Empire"},{"startTime":1152.477,"endTime":1159.785,"body":"and the Middle East, but especially from Greek, Hebrew and Mesopotamian tradition."},{"startTime":1160.285,"endTime":1167.406,"body":"In many ways, Roman Egypt was more like modern California in its cultural exuberance, eclecticism"},{"startTime":1167.406,"endTime":1169.305,"body":"than most societies since."},{"startTime":1169.885,"endTime":1176.315,"body":"And this was an obvious consequence of the presence of Alexandria as the largest and"},{"startTime":1176.315,"endTime":1179.745,"body":"most cosmopolitan city in the entire near East."},{"startTime":1180.995,"endTime":1188.726,"body":"These magicians now had to have a new interest in gratifying all the desires of"},{"startTime":1188.726,"endTime":1196.457,"body":"private clients and passing on knowledge to paying pupils and sometimes appropriated the language and"},{"startTime":1196.457,"endTime":1200.065,"body":"atmosphere of the late Roman mystery religions."},{"startTime":1200.805,"endTime":1207.625,"body":"Indeed, some rights were designed to enable religious revelation, but almost always the reason why"},{"startTime":1207.625,"endTime":1214.446,"body":"you wanna meet the gods is to fulfill individual and earthly ambitions, get rich, get"},{"startTime":1214.446,"endTime":1216.265,"body":"popular, get a lover."},{"startTime":1217.245,"endTime":1226.384,"body":"In other words, just as official attitudes across the Roman Empire, were hardening further against"},{"startTime":1226.384,"endTime":1235.523,"body":"magic as a means of manipulating divine power for selfish ends, Egypt, whilst producing and"},{"startTime":1235.523,"endTime":1242.225,"body":"marketing an unprecedentedly sophisticated commercial tradition dedicated to doing exactly that."},{"startTime":1243.405,"endTime":1249.756,"body":"The unanswerable question is whether it did so alone and that exported it to the"},{"startTime":1249.756,"endTime":1256.107,"body":"rest of the Roman world and near East, or whether Egypt represented one corner of"},{"startTime":1256.107,"endTime":1260.765,"body":"a development occurring all over the rest of the Roman world."},{"startTime":1261.455,"endTime":1267.737,"body":"There are references to magical books in other parts of the empire, usually getting burned"},{"startTime":1267.737,"endTime":1271.925,"body":"by the authorities before their owners are put to death."},{"startTime":1272.875,"endTime":1279.005,"body":"None, however, have survived to show whether they contained complex ritual magic."},{"startTime":1279.545,"endTime":1284.525,"body":"And if so, if that was influenced by the Egyptian tradition."},{"startTime":1286.535,"endTime":1294.005,"body":"Egypt as said, possessed an ideology which uniquely favored the employment of magic."},{"startTime":1294.905,"endTime":1302.395,"body":"It had become a crossroad of cultures which provided an eclectic mix of materials, and"},{"startTime":1302.395,"endTime":1309.886,"body":"it possessed just the right social development in the privatization of the business of the"},{"startTime":1309.886,"endTime":1310.885,"body":"magician priests."},{"startTime":1313.115,"endTime":1319.675,"body":"What I can say for sure is that all the essential features of the magic"},{"startTime":1319.675,"endTime":1326.236,"body":"and the papay had long been present in Egyptian culture, and that all these features"},{"startTime":1326.236,"endTime":1331.485,"body":"were to become the foundations of the Western magical tradition in general."},{"startTime":1332.105,"endTime":1335.845,"body":"So let's run down the Egyptian magical checklist."},{"startTime":1336.865,"endTime":1345.605,"body":"Number one, an emphasis that magicians must be physically and morally purified before working magic."},{"startTime":1345.935,"endTime":1354.737,"body":"Scrub up stop sex, a willingness to command and to represent deities, to invoke deities"},{"startTime":1354.737,"endTime":1357.085,"body":"into each other's bodies."},{"startTime":1358.225,"endTime":1369.102,"body":"The importation of exciting foreign deities and spirits, the employment of animal, vegetable and mineral"},{"startTime":1369.102,"endTime":1377.805,"body":"substances in rituals, the use of images as important, especially animated statues."},{"startTime":1377.905,"endTime":1385.355,"body":"One of the great Egyptian magical party tricks, a belief in the power of the"},{"startTime":1385.355,"endTime":1392.805,"body":"spoken word, and of knowing the true name of an entity, you are going to"},{"startTime":1392.805,"endTime":1398.765,"body":"summon the importance of conation in unknown and frankly, often meaningless languages."},{"startTime":1400.485,"endTime":1407.432,"body":"Gobbledygook, abracadabra, the importance of choosing a correct day and time and proper colors and"},{"startTime":1407.432,"endTime":1409.285,"body":"objects for a working."},{"startTime":1409.955,"endTime":1411.805,"body":"Okay, my friend, you wanna love spell."},{"startTime":1411.945,"endTime":1414.605,"body":"So it'll be green robe and candle."},{"startTime":1415.065,"endTime":1417.565,"body":"Uh, do it on a Friday, do it at noon."},{"startTime":1417.985,"endTime":1425.196,"body":"And of course, uh, you'll be invoking one of our checklist of exciting goddesses of"},{"startTime":1425.196,"endTime":1430.485,"body":"love and the use of human mediums to speak for deities."},{"startTime":1431.105,"endTime":1437.123,"body":"And finally, the collection of all this stuff in books which are then circulated or"},{"startTime":1437.123,"endTime":1437.525,"body":"sold."},{"startTime":1438.435,"endTime":1443.813,"body":"It's true that many of the same traditions could be found in other ancient cultures,"},{"startTime":1443.813,"endTime":1445.965,"body":"but only Egypt had the lot."},{"startTime":1447.755,"endTime":1455.938,"body":"It's not surprising that even as the magical papyri were being written, Roman literature began"},{"startTime":1455.938,"endTime":1462.485,"body":"to make the professional Egyptian magician using books, a stock disreputable character."},{"startTime":1463.075,"endTime":1468.725,"body":"He's the major creep in the plot of most imperial Roman novels."},{"startTime":1469.505,"endTime":1475.445,"body":"He always ranges at best the shady to at worse, the downright evil."},{"startTime":1476.555,"endTime":1483.311,"body":"It's interesting that portraits of magicians are also found in native Egyptian texts dating back"},{"startTime":1483.311,"endTime":1487.365,"body":"a couple of thousand years before the Roman era."},{"startTime":1488.025,"endTime":1493.885,"body":"But in native Egyptian texts, magicians are always shown as admirable."},{"startTime":1494.725,"endTime":1504.225,"body":"Moreover, one non-fictional writer of the Imperial Roman period Celsus complained of wandering magic workers"},{"startTime":1504.225,"endTime":1513.725,"body":"who promised customers the kind of achievements which the Egyptian papyri texts offered to readers."},{"startTime":1514.345,"endTime":1519.365,"body":"And Kelis said they always learned their trade from the Egyptians."},{"startTime":1520.415,"endTime":1527.318,"body":"Still more objectively, one of the few kinds of source material for magical practices in"},{"startTime":1527.318,"endTime":1534.222,"body":"the European lands of the Roman Empire consists of metal amulets bearing texts in Greek,"},{"startTime":1534.222,"endTime":1538.365,"body":"many call on the power of gods and spirits."},{"startTime":1539.355,"endTime":1547.61,"body":"What is so striking about them is they almost never mention mainstream Greek and Roman"},{"startTime":1547.61,"endTime":1554.765,"body":"deities, the kind of deities that European Romans, including British, are actually worshiping."},{"startTime":1556.435,"endTime":1561.906,"body":"What they do instead is they name the kind of spirits and deities you find"},{"startTime":1561.906,"endTime":1563.365,"body":"in the Egyptian texts."},{"startTime":1564.185,"endTime":1570.935,"body":"Two examples from Britain, which is after all at the opposite end of the empire"},{"startTime":1570.935,"endTime":1577.685,"body":"from Egypt, may make the case because they're found in marginal context, not in the"},{"startTime":1577.685,"endTime":1584.435,"body":"homes of governors, not in places where rich merchants hang out, not where foreign soldiers"},{"startTime":1584.435,"endTime":1591.185,"body":"are quartered, one is from the forte Cavan right on the brink of the Roman"},{"startTime":1591.185,"endTime":1597.935,"body":"world facing the Irish Sea, which calls on the Egyptian God th God of wisdom"},{"startTime":1597.935,"endTime":1604.685,"body":"with Hebrew words and magical figures of exactly the sort found in the magical papyri."},{"startTime":1605.475,"endTime":1613.48,"body":"Another comes from a temple at wood Eaton in Oxfordshire used by local pilgrims, and"},{"startTime":1613.48,"endTime":1619.885,"body":"it uses a Hebrew divine name again found in the Egyptian texts."},{"startTime":1621.885,"endTime":1629.385,"body":"Moreover, we can go a lot further in establishing the later influence of the Egyptian"},{"startTime":1629.385,"endTime":1629.885,"body":"tradition."},{"startTime":1629.985,"endTime":1637.063,"body":"You see in these Roman period papyri elsewhere in the Roman world, we have these"},{"startTime":1637.063,"endTime":1644.141,"body":"papyri In Egypt, we have the texts because of the dryness of the Egyptian climate,"},{"startTime":1644.141,"endTime":1647.445,"body":"which preserves these texts well in tombs."},{"startTime":1648.835,"endTime":1652.925,"body":"That is why we can turn to the Egyptian sources so readily."},{"startTime":1653.945,"endTime":1660.652,"body":"But by the end of the ancient world, the kind of magic found in the"},{"startTime":1660.652,"endTime":1667.359,"body":"papyri was getting full blown into other cultures as the Greeks, the Romans, Jewish communities,"},{"startTime":1667.359,"endTime":1672.725,"body":"and Christians began to develop their own versions of the Egyptian magic."},{"startTime":1673.985,"endTime":1682.076,"body":"At the end of the third century of the Roman Christian, the Roman imperial period,"},{"startTime":1682.076,"endTime":1690.168,"body":"a branch of Greek philosophy appeared Neo Platonism, which explicitly drew on Egyptian magical techniques"},{"startTime":1690.168,"endTime":1693.405,"body":"to provide direct contact with deities."},{"startTime":1694.225,"endTime":1698.085,"body":"The techniques concerned became known as Ji."},{"startTime":1699.265,"endTime":1706.475,"body":"Jewish and Christian magical books were now written, which used the same Egyptian techniques for"},{"startTime":1706.475,"endTime":1713.205,"body":"a range of practical purposes in the same manner as the Egyptian texts themselves."},{"startTime":1714.025,"endTime":1721.565,"body":"The most famous of the Hebrew texts was the , the Book of the Mysteries."},{"startTime":1722.025,"endTime":1726.725,"body":"And the most famous Christian one was the Testament of Solomon."},{"startTime":1727.235,"endTime":1734.02,"body":"They embedded the Egyptian technology in rituals and texts of their own, but it's recognizably"},{"startTime":1734.02,"endTime":1734.925,"body":"the same."},{"startTime":1735.465,"endTime":1742.876,"body":"And both of these key Jewish and Christian works might actually have been composed in"},{"startTime":1742.876,"endTime":1748.805,"body":"Egypt, and occasionally you can trace texts directly from there across millennia."},{"startTime":1749.305,"endTime":1758.287,"body":"The Es essentially a textbook on medical amulets ambulances to cure diseases existed in fourth"},{"startTime":1758.287,"endTime":1759.485,"body":"century Egypt."},{"startTime":1760.305,"endTime":1766.92,"body":"It then passed into the use of medieval western Europe through an Arabic and then"},{"startTime":1766.92,"endTime":1768.685,"body":"a Byzantine Greek translation."},{"startTime":1773.825,"endTime":1781.245,"body":"Sometimes also living fossils can be found in texts which signal a transmission from Egypt."},{"startTime":1782.315,"endTime":1789.412,"body":"Perhaps the most amazing is the invocation of the rather homely Egyptian God best found"},{"startTime":1789.412,"endTime":1796.509,"body":"in one of the Greek magical papyri, compiled maybe around two or 300 of the"},{"startTime":1796.509,"endTime":1803.606,"body":"Imperial Roman period, which is also found in an English magical gir of the 16th"},{"startTime":1803.606,"endTime":1806.445,"body":"century without any trace of it."},{"startTime":1806.825,"endTime":1807.405,"body":"In between."},{"startTime":1808.425,"endTime":1817.037,"body":"The most popular and frequently copied of the magical handbooks of the late middle Ages"},{"startTime":1817.037,"endTime":1825.649,"body":"and the early modern period usually include garbled references to Egyptian deities, including a Cyrus,"},{"startTime":1825.649,"endTime":1831.965,"body":"therapists Horace, ISIS F, and even the sacred bull, the apu."},{"startTime":1832.395,"endTime":1836.936,"body":"Even though by the Middle Ages those copying the name had no idea it had"},{"startTime":1836.936,"endTime":1837.845,"body":"been a bull."},{"startTime":1839.355,"endTime":1846.685,"body":"They also constantly contained directions for the making of reed pens for ritual."},{"startTime":1847.905,"endTime":1850.805,"body":"Now, why read pens in the middle ages?"},{"startTime":1850.805,"endTime":1859.469,"body":"People are writing on parchment or veem read pens are pretty useless for that, or"},{"startTime":1859.469,"endTime":1868.134,"body":"at least scratchy, but they are perfectly suited to writing on papyrus, indicating an Egyptian"},{"startTime":1868.134,"endTime":1870.445,"body":"provenance for the technique."},{"startTime":1871.265,"endTime":1872.885,"body":"And you can play the same game."},{"startTime":1873.105,"endTime":1880.3,"body":"So I shall with other relics of ancient Mediterranean rights in northern texts, such as"},{"startTime":1880.3,"endTime":1887.495,"body":"the use of an olive oil lamp in a spell copied in England in 1622,"},{"startTime":1887.495,"endTime":1894.69,"body":"or the presence of the hoop ho bird in other texts written there, the huo"},{"startTime":1894.69,"endTime":1901.885,"body":"indeed makes a perfect little case study of the continuous development of the magical tradition."},{"startTime":1902.245,"endTime":1905.645,"body":"I dunno how many of you here have come across HUBOs abroad."},{"startTime":1905.715,"endTime":1907.165,"body":"They're really cute little things."},{"startTime":1907.795,"endTime":1916.133,"body":"They have this brilliant orange ory pinky color, uh, with barred black and white wings"},{"startTime":1916.133,"endTime":1917.245,"body":"and crest."},{"startTime":1917.795,"endTime":1921.085,"body":"They're, they're cute, they're colorful, they're bright."},{"startTime":1922.625,"endTime":1929.681,"body":"And as one of the most striking wor birds found in the Mediterranean, it colorful"},{"startTime":1929.681,"endTime":1933.445,"body":"and prominent became colorful and prominent in magic."},{"startTime":1934.225,"endTime":1941.35,"body":"It features in the magical papyri where its body parts poor thing, and especially its"},{"startTime":1941.35,"endTime":1943.725,"body":"heart were used in spells."},{"startTime":1944.305,"endTime":1951.827,"body":"Arabic magical texts based in Egypt subsequently inflated its status into that of the most"},{"startTime":1951.827,"endTime":1957.845,"body":"important bird in Arabic magic and fans out across the Muslim world."},{"startTime":1958.345,"endTime":1966.481,"body":"As such, the influence of Arabic manuals on medieval European magic was such that the"},{"startTime":1966.481,"endTime":1974.617,"body":"whoo retained this status in handbooks of European magic right into the early modern period"},{"startTime":1974.617,"endTime":1976.245,"body":"on the continent."},{"startTime":1976.315,"endTime":1982.623,"body":"This matches the natural history because the bird is and was found in some parts"},{"startTime":1982.623,"endTime":1988.932,"body":"of Europe in England, however, it isn't it's at best a rare summer visitor and"},{"startTime":1988.932,"endTime":1995.241,"body":"would've been even rarer in the cooler climate of the late mid ages and early"},{"startTime":1995.241,"endTime":1997.765,"body":"modern period than it is now."},{"startTime":1997.875,"endTime":2003.325,"body":"Bird watchers hardly ever see a huo in England, even with global warming."},{"startTime":2004.275,"endTime":2011.94,"body":"Therefore, when you find huo hearts as vital ingredients in spells copied in England between"},{"startTime":2011.94,"endTime":2019.605,"body":"the 14th and 16th centuries, you are seeing another living fossil of ancient Egyptian tradition."},{"startTime":2021.145,"endTime":2024.125,"body":"All this however, is detail."},{"startTime":2025.275,"endTime":2034.282,"body":"It's more productive to establish the endearing techniques for western ritual magic, which first appear"},{"startTime":2034.282,"endTime":2037.285,"body":"together in the magical papyri."},{"startTime":2038.165,"endTime":2040.685,"body":"I would propose that there are eight of these."},{"startTime":2041.655,"endTime":2051.284,"body":"First and most obvious are complicated magical rights, which unite actions, materials, and words."},{"startTime":2052.264,"endTime":2058.045,"body":"Second is an emphasis on words in foreign or unknown languages."},{"startTime":2058.495,"endTime":2060.525,"body":"Again, hence Abracadabra."},{"startTime":2061.415,"endTime":2069.639,"body":"Third is one on the purification of the magician before the right, including fasting, chastity"},{"startTime":2069.639,"endTime":2071.284,"body":"and clean clothes."},{"startTime":2072.264,"endTime":2076.125,"body":"Fourth is an emphasis on the making of special equipment."},{"startTime":2076.185,"endTime":2081.685,"body":"For the right magic is uphill work among learned magicians."},{"startTime":2082.264,"endTime":2088.377,"body":"Uh, but uh, presumably you have leisure time on your hands to make your swords"},{"startTime":2088.377,"endTime":2092.045,"body":"and wands and goblets and the other equipment required."},{"startTime":2092.935,"endTime":2097.365,"body":"Fifth is one on the selection of an appropriate time for the operation."},{"startTime":2097.915,"endTime":2101.285,"body":"I've already run through the classic love spell sequence."},{"startTime":2102.135,"endTime":2107.845,"body":"Sixth are measures to protect the magician against the forces raised."},{"startTime":2108.585,"endTime":2112.645,"body":"Uh, this is stuff you are trying at home folks as a learned magician."},{"startTime":2113.225,"endTime":2119.471,"body":"And if you are summering a really, really powerful deity or spirit, if this entity"},{"startTime":2119.471,"endTime":2124.885,"body":"arrives in your living room, you better be in charge otherwise you toast."},{"startTime":2126.225,"endTime":2129.925,"body":"So magical defenses are essential."},{"startTime":2130.585,"endTime":2135.525,"body":"The seventh is a quest for a csor spirit to carry out."},{"startTime":2135.525,"endTime":2141.842,"body":"The magician's will in many ways, traditional ceremonial magic is just a glorified form of"},{"startTime":2141.842,"endTime":2142.685,"body":"room service."},{"startTime":2143.945,"endTime":2151.435,"body":"And to have a supernatural handmaiden or butler, uh, forever on call costing you nothing"},{"startTime":2151.435,"endTime":2158.925,"body":"except a bit of revocation to do whatever you want is the ultimate employer's dream."},{"startTime":2159.945,"endTime":2169.068,"body":"And the eighth characteristic is, you've probably guessed it, an eclectic and multicultural range of"},{"startTime":2169.068,"endTime":2170.285,"body":"source material."},{"startTime":2172.505,"endTime":2178.858,"body":"It should be clear that all of these characteristics are by no means present in"},{"startTime":2178.858,"endTime":2184.365,"body":"all works of ceremonial magic compiled between the fourth and the 19th centuries."},{"startTime":2184.945,"endTime":2191.653,"body":"Rather, there a list of actions and artifacts from which magicians could choose according to"},{"startTime":2191.653,"endTime":2198.361,"body":"will tradition and what they could practically do, nor is there an equal provision of"},{"startTime":2198.361,"endTime":2201.045,"body":"such material across that long period."},{"startTime":2202.105,"endTime":2208.594,"body":"Unsurprisingly, more magical texts survive as you go on from the later middle ages to"},{"startTime":2208.594,"endTime":2210.325,"body":"towards the modern period."},{"startTime":2211.305,"endTime":2219.563,"body":"And nor does magic get steadily more sophisticated over time on the contrary, for example,"},{"startTime":2219.563,"endTime":2227.821,"body":"the operations in Christian magical papyri from Egypt are generally less elaborate and less cosmopolitan"},{"startTime":2227.821,"endTime":2231.125,"body":"than those in their pagan predecessors."},{"startTime":2231.905,"endTime":2239.288,"body":"The handbooks of magicians in Renaissance Europe were only as ornate and ambitious as those"},{"startTime":2239.288,"endTime":2240.765,"body":"in Roman Egypt."},{"startTime":2242.075,"endTime":2251.723,"body":"Nonetheless, those Egyptian texts and those handbooks were still compiled by drawing upon the collection"},{"startTime":2251.723,"endTime":2260.085,"body":"of techniques listed above, and so did all the subsequent European magical texts."},{"startTime":2262.235,"endTime":2270.091,"body":"It's also striking that just as the complex magic and those proprie developed in clear"},{"startTime":2270.091,"endTime":2274.805,"body":"oppositions the values and laws of the Roman state."},{"startTime":2275.585,"endTime":2283.647,"body":"So it often survived as a self-conscious and explicit European counterculture, in many ways learned"},{"startTime":2283.647,"endTime":2288.485,"body":"magic in the Middle ages and early modern periods."},{"startTime":2288.485,"endTime":2296.485,"body":"But like drugs in late modernity, uh, officially totally illegal, good people never touched them."},{"startTime":2296.905,"endTime":2303.04,"body":"But somehow everybody knew where to get it if you wanted it, and an awful"},{"startTime":2303.04,"endTime":2305.085,"body":"lot of people consistently did."},{"startTime":2306.065,"endTime":2313.67,"body":"And there's something shamelessly in your face about a lot of the magician's persona in"},{"startTime":2313.67,"endTime":2314.685,"body":"these texts."},{"startTime":2315.185,"endTime":2322.549,"body":"One of the most notorious magical handbooks of the later Middle Ages, the sworn book"},{"startTime":2322.549,"endTime":2329.914,"body":"of Hano, was written as a direct response to a papal campaign to repress ceremonial"},{"startTime":2329.914,"endTime":2330.405,"body":"magic."},{"startTime":2331.065,"endTime":2338.005,"body":"It claimed that the Pope and his cardinals were possessed by demons, and that the"},{"startTime":2338.005,"endTime":2341.245,"body":"magicians were the true servants of God."},{"startTime":2343.175,"endTime":2350.26,"body":"Other grim wars insisted that they'd been dictated by an angel sent by the Almighty"},{"startTime":2350.26,"endTime":2357.346,"body":"to instruct humanity, or that magic was not in itself inherently bad, but a neutral"},{"startTime":2357.346,"endTime":2361.125,"body":"force which could be used for human benefit."},{"startTime":2362.115,"endTime":2369.523,"body":"This was a position, needless to say, directly counter to Christian orthodoxy as maintained throughout"},{"startTime":2369.523,"endTime":2371.005,"body":"the medieval period."},{"startTime":2371.465,"endTime":2378.685,"body":"So magicians are constantly and consciously fighting back against orthodoxy."},{"startTime":2380.045,"endTime":2386.455,"body":"Moreover, just as some of the magical papyri had offered readers a chance to make"},{"startTime":2386.455,"endTime":2392.866,"body":"a direct relationship with a deity, and the neo platonic art of JE was formed"},{"startTime":2392.866,"endTime":2396.285,"body":"around just the same objective, meet the gods."},{"startTime":2397.205,"endTime":2401.965,"body":"Medieval Christians also used magic to this end clandestinely."},{"startTime":2402.555,"endTime":2409.037,"body":"Some of magical texts promised purchasers the Butte vision of God in his glory to"},{"startTime":2409.037,"endTime":2415.52,"body":"readers who not only enacted the prescribed rights, but used in them some of the"},{"startTime":2415.52,"endTime":2422.002,"body":"established liturgy of the church, while leading lives of exemplary Christian austerity and piety to"},{"startTime":2422.002,"endTime":2428.485,"body":"make sure that God is in a good mood where you get to meet him."},{"startTime":2430.425,"endTime":2439.331,"body":"If these are the fundamentals of tradition from the fourth century to the 21st, it's"},{"startTime":2439.331,"endTime":2447.645,"body":"worth asking again what particular ethnic and religious forms have subsequently contributed to it."},{"startTime":2448.865,"endTime":2456.996,"body":"And I would suggest three such contributions each one made by the major western faith"},{"startTime":2456.996,"endTime":2459.165,"body":"traditions, the Abrahamic faiths."},{"startTime":2460.055,"endTime":2467.408,"body":"First, as others have suggested from Joshua Trachtenberg to Richard Keek heifer, the Jewish contribution"},{"startTime":2467.408,"endTime":2474.762,"body":"was the stress on the invocation of angels as magical helpers and the power of"},{"startTime":2474.762,"endTime":2478.685,"body":"the name or names of the one God."},{"startTime":2480.075,"endTime":2487.617,"body":"Both were rooted in ancient magic, the magical papyri having already embodied a full sense"},{"startTime":2487.617,"endTime":2495.159,"body":"of the importance of enlisting spiritual assistance, and of knowing the true names of spirits"},{"startTime":2495.159,"endTime":2496.165,"body":"and deities."},{"startTime":2497.195,"endTime":2503.485,"body":"Both were also, however, neatly dovetailed with major features of Judaism."},{"startTime":2504.385,"endTime":2506.525,"body":"Its interest in angelic beings."},{"startTime":2507.305,"endTime":2514.365,"body":"Its preoccupation with the power and sanctity of language rather than a visual imagery."},{"startTime":2515.185,"endTime":2517.405,"body":"And its intense monotheism."},{"startTime":2518.315,"endTime":2525.908,"body":"Neither of them was acceptable to orthodox Christianity ever, which condemned the invocation of angels"},{"startTime":2525.908,"endTime":2533.501,"body":"as wrong and thought that the idea of special names, which compelled attention from the"},{"startTime":2533.501,"endTime":2537.045,"body":"one true God detracted from his majesty."},{"startTime":2537.715,"endTime":2542.965,"body":"Nonetheless, medieval Christian magic eagerly laptop both."},{"startTime":2544.625,"endTime":2554.022,"body":"Second, I would follow David Penry in identifying the distinctive Islamic contribution as astral magic"},{"startTime":2554.022,"endTime":2563.42,"body":"writes, design designed to harness the powers of heavenly bodies by drawing them down from"},{"startTime":2563.42,"endTime":2571.565,"body":"the heavens into material objects to which Islam gave the Arabic name talismans."},{"startTime":2572.755,"endTime":2577.525,"body":"This tradition seems to have developed in Mesopotamia in the ninth century."},{"startTime":2578.155,"endTime":2583.125,"body":"That region was the heart of the Arab Empire with its capital at Baghdad."},{"startTime":2583.825,"endTime":2589.883,"body":"So Islam is going to develop in the Islamic world, it probably will develop there,"},{"startTime":2589.883,"endTime":2595.941,"body":"but of course, it's right smack in the middle of ancient Mesopotamia, as it was"},{"startTime":2595.941,"endTime":2598.365,"body":"with its intense preoccupation with astrology."},{"startTime":2598.905,"endTime":2607.631,"body":"And the powers of heavenly divinities Arabic astral magic, however, may also have drawn on"},{"startTime":2607.631,"endTime":2616.357,"body":"ideas from Egypt where the magical papyri contained several recipes for charging material objects, especially"},{"startTime":2616.357,"endTime":2618.685,"body":"rings with occult power."},{"startTime":2619.545,"endTime":2627.175,"body":"The Egyptian hermetic texts from the same period as the papyri made the sun, moon,"},{"startTime":2627.175,"endTime":2634.805,"body":"and planets, the immediate agents of the all powerful divine creator, whatever its ultimate origin."},{"startTime":2635.355,"endTime":2641.637,"body":"There's no doubt that the Arabic tradition of astral magic was conveyed to Europe by"},{"startTime":2641.637,"endTime":2646.245,"body":"a mass translation of Arabic text there in the 12th century."},{"startTime":2646.865,"endTime":2650.285,"body":"And again, European magicians just loved it."},{"startTime":2651.775,"endTime":2659.325,"body":"Third, I'd suggest that the distinctive Christian European edition has been geometric."},{"startTime":2659.635,"endTime":2666.272,"body":"Okay, I agree that sounds boring, but it gives us some of the classic instant"},{"startTime":2666.272,"endTime":2668.485,"body":"recognition symbols of Western magic."},{"startTime":2669.225,"endTime":2676.639,"body":"And that's the use of the consecrated circle as the normal venue for a magical"},{"startTime":2676.639,"endTime":2684.053,"body":"operation with special significance given to the four cardinal directions east, then south, then west,"},{"startTime":2684.053,"endTime":2691.467,"body":"then north, and the identification of the pentagram, the five pointed star as the most"},{"startTime":2691.467,"endTime":2693.445,"body":"potent symbol of magic."},{"startTime":2694.945,"endTime":2697.965,"body":"All of these figures undoubtedly had ancient roots."},{"startTime":2698.735,"endTime":2703.525,"body":"Magic circles appear in Assyrian and Babylonian rites of exorcism."},{"startTime":2704.645,"endTime":2712.02,"body":"Moreover, processions around the sacred space in a circle before using it were a regular"},{"startTime":2712.02,"endTime":2716.445,"body":"feature of Egyptian religion from the opening of history."},{"startTime":2717.275,"endTime":2727.167,"body":"Nonetheless, circles feature only occasionally in actual ancient magic rights or stories about them, whether"},{"startTime":2727.167,"endTime":2729.805,"body":"Mesopotamian, Egyptian or Jewish."},{"startTime":2730.545,"endTime":2736.713,"body":"And they're rare and early medieval handbooks of magic like the Anglo-Saxon, which are quite"},{"startTime":2736.713,"endTime":2737.125,"body":"plentiful."},{"startTime":2738.125,"endTime":2745.061,"body":"Likewise, significance have been attached to the cardinal points of the compass since the dawn"},{"startTime":2745.061,"endTime":2751.998,"body":"of history in Mesopotamia, when the kings of the Sumerian city states four and a"},{"startTime":2751.998,"endTime":2757.085,"body":"half thousand years ago styled themselves lords of the four quarters."},{"startTime":2757.875,"endTime":2765.52,"body":"However, like the circle, the cardinal points only feature in a small minority of actual"},{"startTime":2765.52,"endTime":2773.165,"body":"magical recipes in the ancient and medieval worlds in any European nor near Eastern culture."},{"startTime":2774.345,"endTime":2781.222,"body":"As for the pentagram, five pointed stars are found in ancient Egyptian Mesopotamian, Greek and"},{"startTime":2781.222,"endTime":2786.725,"body":"Roman art, or on coins, and also in the early Middle Ages."},{"startTime":2787.185,"endTime":2789.965,"body":"But they have no single tradition of significance."},{"startTime":2791.265,"endTime":2794.085,"body":"In many contexts, they may just have been decorative."},{"startTime":2794.475,"endTime":2797.645,"body":"They have no particular association with magic."},{"startTime":2798.345,"endTime":2801.245,"body":"One ancient Greek satire claim."},{"startTime":2801.305,"endTime":2807.474,"body":"The followers of Pythagoras, uh, whom the writer was mocking, used the pentagram as a"},{"startTime":2807.474,"endTime":2810.765,"body":"sign of recognition, meaning the wishing of health."},{"startTime":2811.665,"endTime":2817.489,"body":"But if this story is true, and it may be a satire, it doesn't prove"},{"startTime":2817.489,"endTime":2822.925,"body":"the pentagram had no had any special association with magic in the ancient world."},{"startTime":2823.905,"endTime":2830.999,"body":"By contrast, as soon as the Western Europeans acquired complex ceremonial magic, which was in"},{"startTime":2830.999,"endTime":2838.093,"body":"the 12th century, when they began a mass translation of Greek Hebrew, an Arabic texts,"},{"startTime":2838.093,"endTime":2845.188,"body":"they showed a preference for the courted circle and the pentagram, the circle with cardinal"},{"startTime":2845.188,"endTime":2849.445,"body":"points marked, became the classic setting for magical workings."},{"startTime":2849.985,"endTime":2855.365,"body":"And the five pointed star, the most potent symbol used by magicians."},{"startTime":2856.105,"endTime":2863.321,"body":"The circle now represented either a protection for magicians or a vessel for the power"},{"startTime":2863.321,"endTime":2864.765,"body":"raised in them."},{"startTime":2865.265,"endTime":2869.405,"body":"And the quarters were the powerful gateways in the circle."},{"startTime":2870.265,"endTime":2877.36,"body":"The pentagram was credited above all with the power to control spirits and in particular,"},{"startTime":2877.36,"endTime":2879.725,"body":"to control or banish demons."},{"startTime":2880.355,"endTime":2884.925,"body":"This belief got into popular culture as by the later Middle Ages."},{"startTime":2884.985,"endTime":2893.527,"body":"The pentagram is carved all over Christian Europe on houses cradles, bedsteads, and church porches"},{"startTime":2893.527,"endTime":2895.805,"body":"as a protective device."},{"startTime":2896.505,"endTime":2904.765,"body":"It reflected the belief promoted by 12th century Christian intellectuals, that the human body was"},{"startTime":2904.765,"endTime":2911.925,"body":"constructed on a base provided by the number five limbs, digits, and senses."},{"startTime":2912.745,"endTime":2917.165,"body":"If humans were made in the divine image, then this was the shape of God."},{"startTime":2917.785,"endTime":2923.325,"body":"It was supercharged by becoming associated with the five wounds of Christ as well."},{"startTime":2924.165,"endTime":2930.521,"body":"Likewise, the concept that the universe was based on a series of spheres, general from"},{"startTime":2930.521,"endTime":2936.877,"body":"the 12th century onwards, may account for the interest among Christians in circles as units"},{"startTime":2936.877,"endTime":2937.725,"body":"of magic."},{"startTime":2938.585,"endTime":2947.968,"body":"The courted circle and pentagram may be regarded as preoccupations of a distinctively western or"},{"startTime":2947.968,"endTime":2949.845,"body":"Latin Christian tradition."},{"startTime":2950.315,"endTime":2956.325,"body":"There's no certain evidence as yet they're known in the Greek Christian, the Byzantine East."},{"startTime":2957.195,"endTime":2964.802,"body":"What may emerge from this sequence of suggestions is actually how small the European contribution"},{"startTime":2964.802,"endTime":2972.41,"body":"to ritual magic was, even though some Europeans took it up with such enthusiasm in"},{"startTime":2972.41,"endTime":2980.017,"body":"all centuries since the 12th, whatever the relative priority of Egypt th I've suggested, it's"},{"startTime":2980.017,"endTime":2980.525,"body":"massive."},{"startTime":2981.315,"endTime":2988.23,"body":"This magic was essentially a product of the fertile crescent of the Near East, which"},{"startTime":2988.23,"endTime":2994.685,"body":"has made three huge contributions to European views of the supernatural in successive waves."},{"startTime":2995.665,"endTime":3003.847,"body":"The first affected European paganism teaching European pagans to treat their goddesses gods as a"},{"startTime":3003.847,"endTime":3011.485,"body":"squabbling and badly behaved family with individual and collective stories attached to its members."},{"startTime":3012.145,"endTime":3019.128,"body":"The second great gift was of course, Christianity as the dominant religious system of medieval"},{"startTime":3019.128,"endTime":3020.525,"body":"and later Europe."},{"startTime":3021.385,"endTime":3029.77,"body":"The third was the provision of complex ritual magic as an ideology and practice compatible"},{"startTime":3029.77,"endTime":3032.565,"body":"with most religions, including Christianity."},{"startTime":3033.265,"endTime":3040.673,"body":"At the same time, it represented a way of dealing with the cosmos, which was"},{"startTime":3040.673,"endTime":3048.081,"body":"totally at odds with Christian Jewish and Islamic orthodoxy, and with ancient European tradition, despite"},{"startTime":3048.081,"endTime":3055.49,"body":"which it has endeared to the present as a clandestine practice and underwent a notable"},{"startTime":3055.49,"endTime":3062.405,"body":"revival in the West at the end of the 19th century, which still continues."},{"startTime":3063.305,"endTime":3067.88,"body":"And it seems that across Europe and the Near East, religion and magic have been"},{"startTime":3067.88,"endTime":3069.405,"body":"bound up with each other."},{"startTime":3070.565,"endTime":3078.618,"body":"Whenever spirituality in general has gone through a period of intense creativity development and renewal,"},{"startTime":3078.618,"endTime":3084.525,"body":"magic has entered another spurt of its history in that sense."},{"startTime":3085.005,"endTime":3092.823,"body":"Although the European tradition of a fundamental distinction between the two may well still have"},{"startTime":3092.823,"endTime":3100.641,"body":"its utility, despite a clear overlap, the accompanying European tradition of an inherent hostility between"},{"startTime":3100.641,"endTime":3102.205,"body":"them does not."},{"startTime":3103.425,"endTime":3107.045,"body":"The history of religion is bound up with that of magic."},{"startTime":3107.665,"endTime":3114.991,"body":"And to study the one is to make a contribution to the other, which is"},{"startTime":3114.991,"endTime":3122.317,"body":"why I make my final suggestion of this talk, that the history of magic so"},{"startTime":3122.317,"endTime":3129.643,"body":"long avoided by mainstream scholarship, and even now neglected as a totality, really matters to"},{"startTime":3129.643,"endTime":3132.085,"body":"the understanding of western divinity."},{"startTime":3132.585,"endTime":3139.001,"body":"And that's why this evening you get a professor of divinity for the first time"},{"startTime":3139.001,"endTime":3140.285,"body":"dealing with it."},{"startTime":3152.385,"endTime":3154.645,"body":"Ronald, you will be unsurprised to hear that."},{"startTime":3154.645,"endTime":3159.845,"body":"We have a lot of fantastic questions already on Slido."},{"startTime":3160.505,"endTime":3165.719,"body":"Um, the first of which comes from Janice, and it is, when did magic become"},{"startTime":3165.719,"endTime":3167.805,"body":"just s slight of hand tricks?"},{"startTime":3168.995,"endTime":3170.485,"body":"It's always been that way."},{"startTime":3171.185,"endTime":3174.845,"body":"Uh, but there's always been a distinction in ancient Egypt."},{"startTime":3174.895,"endTime":3179.845,"body":"There were conjures jugglers and they were famous as such."},{"startTime":3180.625,"endTime":3184.445,"body":"And just occasionally the two traditions nudged together."},{"startTime":3184.945,"endTime":3191.89,"body":"For example, in the talmuds, the early medieval collection of Jewish writing, it said that"},{"startTime":3191.89,"endTime":3194.205,"body":"dealing in magic is bad."},{"startTime":3194.615,"endTime":3195.885,"body":"Leave it to rabbis."},{"startTime":3196.625,"endTime":3202.141,"body":"But dealing in stage magic is fine, providing you're not trying to pass it off"},{"startTime":3202.141,"endTime":3203.245,"body":"as real magic"},{"startTime":3204.825,"endTime":3206.765,"body":"And provided you're good enough, presumably."},{"startTime":3207.235,"endTime":3209.365,"body":"Yeah, it's, it's audience related."},{"startTime":3209.575,"endTime":3209.925,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":3210.105,"endTime":3214.445,"body":"But unfortunately, perhaps for the rabbi is so is real magic."},{"startTime":3214.545,"endTime":3214.765,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":3214.865,"endTime":3215.885,"body":"In inverse quotes."},{"startTime":3216.265,"endTime":3219.885,"body":"So we also have a couple of questions about the methods."},{"startTime":3220.105,"endTime":3222.845,"body":"So some of the items on your Egyptian checklist."},{"startTime":3223.265,"endTime":3227.405,"body":"So I with, uh, apologies to our online, uh, questioners."},{"startTime":3227.545,"endTime":3230.045,"body":"I'm gonna condense some of those in the interest of time."},{"startTime":3230.185,"endTime":3230.405,"body":"Yep."},{"startTime":3230.665,"endTime":3236.32,"body":"The first one is, um, did any of the ancient magic include potions with which"},{"startTime":3236.32,"endTime":3238.205,"body":"later magic becomes so preoccupied?"},{"startTime":3238.985,"endTime":3239.205,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":3239.465,"endTime":3240.205,"body":"Yes, it did."},{"startTime":3240.345,"endTime":3242.565,"body":"But only as an ingredient with other things."},{"startTime":3243.225,"endTime":3246.525,"body":"In other words, uh, you don't have a potion as the end game."},{"startTime":3247.085,"endTime":3252.805,"body":"A potion is associated with other objects and rituals and words."},{"startTime":3253.585,"endTime":3258.725,"body":"So the the animal vegetable mineral aspect that you mentioned in relation to the substances."},{"startTime":3258.875,"endTime":3265.123,"body":"Yeah, I mean the, the classic Egyptian papyrus spell really is something like, uh, take"},{"startTime":3265.123,"endTime":3271.372,"body":"the skull of a baboon and write on it in ink taken from the blood"},{"startTime":3271.372,"endTime":3277.205,"body":"of a black Ibis bird, the following character, and then speak the following conation."},{"startTime":3278.095,"endTime":3278.445,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":3279.025,"endTime":3286.182,"body":"So we also have a, a really great question, I think, um, from anonymous, um,"},{"startTime":3286.182,"endTime":3289.045,"body":"specifically about the destruction of objects."},{"startTime":3289.785,"endTime":3291.605,"body":"So what do we know about that?"},{"startTime":3291.665,"endTime":3296.354,"body":"And is there consistency over the eras that you've covered this evening around the destruction"},{"startTime":3296.354,"endTime":3297.605,"body":"of objects in rituals,"},{"startTime":3297.745,"endTime":3298.285,"body":"By whom?"},{"startTime":3299.145,"endTime":3302.165,"body":"Oh, well, they don't specify, but for magical purposes,"},{"startTime":3302.625,"endTime":3309.347,"body":"Uh, very, very seldom, uh, the, the, you've taken trouble and expense getting all this"},{"startTime":3309.347,"endTime":3312.485,"body":"magical bricker back together, you rarely destroyed."},{"startTime":3312.585,"endTime":3314.885,"body":"The obvious thing you destroy is images of enemies."},{"startTime":3314.945,"endTime":3315.365,"body":"Mm-Hmm."},{"startTime":3315.405,"endTime":3318.325,"body":"\u003caffirmative\u003e or images representing disease."},{"startTime":3319.785,"endTime":3323.605,"body":"And in different forms since, uh, history began."},{"startTime":3323.695,"endTime":3326.925,"body":"Those are classic techniques of magical healing."},{"startTime":3327.425,"endTime":3333.459,"body":"You destroy something to take it out, but usually in magic, you are trying to"},{"startTime":3333.459,"endTime":3337.885,"body":"create something to bring something about rather than to remove it."},{"startTime":3337.885,"endTime":3338.125,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":3338.505,"endTime":3342.445,"body":"And in terms of artifacts, you've got me thinking about Roman votive tablets."},{"startTime":3342.795,"endTime":3343.085,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3343.315,"endTime":3347.645,"body":"Very much that fine line between religion and magic."},{"startTime":3347.945,"endTime":3352.245,"body":"It seems to me that with votive tablets, um, it's religion."},{"startTime":3352.425,"endTime":3357.125,"body":"If you're asking a deity for something nice to happen to you, it's magic."},{"startTime":3357.425,"endTime":3360.896,"body":"If you are asking, if you've written a curse down and you're asking for something"},{"startTime":3360.896,"endTime":3362.285,"body":"terrible to happen to somebody else,"},{"startTime":3362.545,"endTime":3363.445,"body":"You're spot on."},{"startTime":3363.745,"endTime":3366.205,"body":"Do we see that persist as well through time?"},{"startTime":3366.465,"endTime":3367.485,"body":"Yes, we certainly do."},{"startTime":3368.105,"endTime":3373.805,"body":"Uh, you can ask, uh, right in Wales right down to the 18th century, there"},{"startTime":3373.805,"endTime":3379.505,"body":"were cursing wells where you could go along to a holy well and write a"},{"startTime":3379.505,"endTime":3385.205,"body":"plea to the saint or the spirit, uh, in charge or to the almighty at"},{"startTime":3385.205,"endTime":3389.005,"body":"the holy well, to take out somebody who'd offended you,"},{"startTime":3389.175,"endTime":3391.165,"body":"Presumably undercover of darkness."},{"startTime":3391.705,"endTime":3392.605,"body":"No, no."},{"startTime":3392.705,"endTime":3393.285,"body":"Or it was quite"},{"startTime":3393.385,"endTime":3394.085,"body":"Openly done"},{"startTime":3394.545,"endTime":3399.12,"body":"Openly and paying a fee to the person who looked after the well, who'd then"},{"startTime":3399.12,"endTime":3400.645,"body":"affect the ritual for you."},{"startTime":3401.125,"endTime":3401.245,"body":"I"},{"startTime":3401.245,"endTime":3406.673,"body":"Mean, there's a whole other conversation to be had about, you know, the, the condoning"},{"startTime":3406.673,"endTime":3408.845,"body":"of magic despite its official prohibition."},{"startTime":3408.985,"endTime":3409.205,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":3409.525,"endTime":3411.725,"body":"Although to the practitioners, that would not be magic."},{"startTime":3412.225,"endTime":3412.565,"body":"Of course."},{"startTime":3413.075,"endTime":3416.005,"body":"It's a yes, A judicial prayer, gosh."},{"startTime":3416.095,"endTime":3416.445,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":3416.565,"endTime":3417.565,"body":"A prayer for divine action."},{"startTime":3418.065,"endTime":3421.205,"body":"I'm very conscious that we have lots of very patient people in the audience."},{"startTime":3421.225,"endTime":3425.03,"body":"Do we have any questions from anyone here in the audience this evening, gentlemen and"},{"startTime":3425.03,"endTime":3426.045,"body":"the third rose there?"},{"startTime":3427.255,"endTime":3427.725,"body":"Thank you."},{"startTime":3428.705,"endTime":3430.165,"body":"Uh, thank you for your talk."},{"startTime":3430.185,"endTime":3430.965,"body":"It was fantastic."},{"startTime":3431.465,"endTime":3436.34,"body":"Um, I wanna know mainly, um, given that magic seems to be a, the offer"},{"startTime":3436.34,"endTime":3440.565,"body":"it makes is a fundamentally practical one, do these things get this result?"},{"startTime":3440.985,"endTime":3445.091,"body":"And given that, at least as far as I can tell, it also patently doesn't"},{"startTime":3445.091,"endTime":3445.365,"body":"work."},{"startTime":3446.305,"endTime":3452.285,"body":"How did it maintain such high prestige in sophisticated size societies for so long?"},{"startTime":3452.585,"endTime":3454.285,"body":"And I also just wonder if you know anything about voodoo."},{"startTime":3454.755,"endTime":3461.73,"body":"Well, the answer is that, uh, magic can appear to work, uh, quite a lot"},{"startTime":3461.73,"endTime":3463.125,"body":"of the time."},{"startTime":3463.715,"endTime":3468.971,"body":"It's also tremendous therapy in that just for a lot of people, it seems, uh,"},{"startTime":3468.971,"endTime":3472.125,"body":"a magician would listen to them and their problems."},{"startTime":3472.825,"endTime":3476.125,"body":"And that in itself was, was something worth having."},{"startTime":3476.865,"endTime":3481.045,"body":"Uh, but also there is, uh, an element of the uncanny in this."},{"startTime":3481.625,"endTime":3488.895,"body":"Uh, we know that, uh, there is a tremendous placebo effect in medicine, uh, which"},{"startTime":3488.895,"endTime":3496.165,"body":"is medically authenticated mind over body, particularly in certain categories of ailment is very powerful."},{"startTime":3496.705,"endTime":3498.805,"body":"And there's stuff we simply don't understand."},{"startTime":3498.865,"endTime":3505.956,"body":"The 1950s, there's a famous case of an American anesthetist who saw somebody suffering from,"},{"startTime":3505.956,"endTime":3513.047,"body":"uh, I theosis a horrific and rare skin ailment in which the skin naturally turns"},{"startTime":3513.047,"endTime":3520.139,"body":"black and scaly and hard and painful, and the regular medics couldn't do anything for"},{"startTime":3520.139,"endTime":3521.085,"body":"this man."},{"startTime":3521.505,"endTime":3528.182,"body":"But the anesthetist was a hypnotherapist, and so tried hypnosis on him, and the osis"},{"startTime":3528.182,"endTime":3533.525,"body":"fell away from the whole of one arm and healthy skin regrew."},{"startTime":3534.065,"endTime":3539.218,"body":"And the anesthetist showed this to the regular medics, and they say, this is actually"},{"startTime":3539.218,"endTime":3543.685,"body":"a miracle because in medical terms, there is no way this can happen."},{"startTime":3544.075,"endTime":3545.205,"body":"There's no mechanism."},{"startTime":3545.825,"endTime":3550.445,"body":"And the shocked anesthetist then tried to treat the mad again and nothing worked."},{"startTime":3551.545,"endTime":3558.48,"body":"And that is a classic case of the uncanny in action that is documented in"},{"startTime":3558.48,"endTime":3559.405,"body":"medical records."},{"startTime":3561.145,"endTime":3568.018,"body":"So talking of the uncanny, we have actually had a, a specific question online, um,"},{"startTime":3568.018,"endTime":3574.892,"body":"about the distinction between medicine and magic, but particularly in ancient Greece and ancient Rome,"},{"startTime":3574.892,"endTime":3576.725,"body":"how distinguished are they?"},{"startTime":3578.345,"endTime":3579.885,"body":"How much of there is an overlap?"},{"startTime":3580.555,"endTime":3586.976,"body":"There's a, there's a considerable overlap, uh, because people do not know how the world"},{"startTime":3586.976,"endTime":3587.405,"body":"works."},{"startTime":3588.355,"endTime":3589.605,"body":"Astrology is easy."},{"startTime":3589.635,"endTime":3593.645,"body":"When you see the moon move, the tides, heavens are controlling the earth."},{"startTime":3594.115,"endTime":3599.561,"body":"Believing in demons is easy if you don't have another word for viruses and basi,"},{"startTime":3599.561,"endTime":3599.925,"body":"right?"},{"startTime":3600.225,"endTime":3604.605,"body":"Beings that occupy your body and the night they're invisible and they mess you around."},{"startTime":3605.625,"endTime":3609.525,"body":"So there is a continuum, uh, between the two."},{"startTime":3610.065,"endTime":3611.245,"body":"Uh, we know that St."},{"startTime":3611.265,"endTime":3616.085,"body":"John's wart produces a tincture that, uh, fights depression."},{"startTime":3616.865,"endTime":3619.005,"body":"And medieval people knew that too."},{"startTime":3619.185,"endTime":3623.638,"body":"But they'd often hang the herb around your neck rather than make a texture, a"},{"startTime":3623.638,"endTime":3628.091,"body":"tincture out of it, because they assume that the plant and the tincture had the"},{"startTime":3628.091,"endTime":3628.685,"body":"same properties."},{"startTime":3630.465,"endTime":3632.205,"body":"Do we have any other questions from the audience?"},{"startTime":3632.325,"endTime":3637.012,"body":"I think I saw, um, let's, goodness, let's come to the lady at the front"},{"startTime":3637.012,"endTime":3637.325,"body":"here."},{"startTime":3637.325,"endTime":3638.885,"body":"Sorry, I I'm neglecting this side."},{"startTime":3638.885,"endTime":3639.285,"body":"Apologies."},{"startTime":3640.075,"endTime":3640.365,"body":"Okay,"},{"startTime":3640.735,"endTime":3641.565,"body":"Thank you very much."},{"startTime":3642.145,"endTime":3651.051,"body":"Um, so obviously you kept referring to, um,  Egypt and uh, uh, Greece and"},{"startTime":3651.051,"endTime":3651.645,"body":"Rome."},{"startTime":3652.305,"endTime":3659.655,"body":"Uh, what was the impact of Celtic beliefs and Celtic magic and also other pagan"},{"startTime":3659.655,"endTime":3667.005,"body":"beliefs such as Slavic in Eastern Europe, um, on the history of magic in Europe?"},{"startTime":3667.585,"endTime":3672.897,"body":"The answer is there are huge magical traditions and all these places, but they are"},{"startTime":3672.897,"endTime":3676.085,"body":"in the realm of what we'd call folk magic."},{"startTime":3676.875,"endTime":3682.554,"body":"That is simple charms and spells, which a lot of people would know and at"},{"startTime":3682.554,"endTime":3685.205,"body":"which some people would be particularly adept."},{"startTime":3685.715,"endTime":3691.304,"body":"What you don't find in these cultures are the checklist of learned ceremonial magic, which"},{"startTime":3691.304,"endTime":3694.285,"body":"I've run down a couple of slides there."},{"startTime":3694.815,"endTime":3700.485,"body":"These are an alien, an exotic, I think ultimately an Egyptian importation."},{"startTime":3702.745,"endTime":3707.135,"body":"Um, so we have another question online, which takes us very much to the modern"},{"startTime":3707.135,"endTime":3711.525,"body":"day, I guess, but I would be interested in any historical intersections here as well."},{"startTime":3712.065,"endTime":3716.805,"body":"Why do you think that today witchcraft has a feminist section of practitioners?"},{"startTime":3717.555,"endTime":3724.686,"body":"Because the witch is one of the very few independent images of female power, which"},{"startTime":3724.686,"endTime":3731.818,"body":"traditionally European culture bequeathed to the present because for prehistoric reasons that there's a long"},{"startTime":3731.818,"endTime":3733.245,"body":"explanation behind this."},{"startTime":3733.915,"endTime":3739.274,"body":"Most Europeans have thought that women are the more magical sex and therefore, witches, I"},{"startTime":3739.274,"endTime":3744.634,"body":"using the term the negative sense of those who are going to employ magic for"},{"startTime":3744.634,"endTime":3749.994,"body":"their own ends are likely to be women because they are those who just have"},{"startTime":3749.994,"endTime":3753.925,"body":"the power in them, or as men have to learn magic."},{"startTime":3754.785,"endTime":3760.165,"body":"And therefore, because of this, the witch is, I think, a natural feminist symbol."},{"startTime":3761.465,"endTime":3766.873,"body":"So it's just, uh, another iteration, if you like, or another manifestation of the divine"},{"startTime":3766.873,"endTime":3772.281,"body":"feminine that we see in established religions in the ancient world, but also survivals of"},{"startTime":3772.281,"endTime":3774.445,"body":"it a little bit in Christianity."},{"startTime":3775.085,"endTime":3778.885,"body":"I don't think it's the divine feminine that'ss, uh, in witches."},{"startTime":3779.405,"endTime":3781.965,"body":"I think it's the empowered human."},{"startTime":3782.425,"endTime":3782.645,"body":"Oh,"},{"startTime":3782.835,"endTime":3783.125,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":3783.945,"endTime":3788.52,"body":"Uh, to what degree is medieval magic, sort of the domain of the, uh, sort"},{"startTime":3788.52,"endTime":3790.045,"body":"of, uh, clerics, ecclesiastical people"},{"startTime":3790.435,"endTime":3790.925,"body":"Learned?"},{"startTime":3791.095,"endTime":3798.084,"body":"Ceremonial magic by definition is the magic of the elite because it depends on books"},{"startTime":3798.084,"endTime":3805.073,"body":"on literacy, but a lot of it filters down, especially in towns and cities, to"},{"startTime":3805.073,"endTime":3812.063,"body":"regular folk magicians who even if they can't read, have some of the, the learned"},{"startTime":3812.063,"endTime":3815.325,"body":"ceremonial spells and conation taught to them."},{"startTime":3815.745,"endTime":3818.205,"body":"So it goes quite far down in society."},{"startTime":3819.065,"endTime":3825.199,"body":"But, uh, the, a lot of it is pushed by what I call the clerical"},{"startTime":3825.199,"endTime":3831.333,"body":"underground dodgy clerics who are smart enough to do the religious stuff by day, but"},{"startTime":3831.333,"endTime":3834.605,"body":"fancy, uh, pushing the spiritual envelope by night."},{"startTime":3835.545,"endTime":3843.292,"body":"And they network, they pass books to each other, so, and maintain the tradition generation"},{"startTime":3843.292,"endTime":3844.325,"body":"by generation."},{"startTime":3845.305,"endTime":3850.863,"body":"Uh, it's actually a follow up question on the power, um, that was, um, invested"},{"startTime":3850.863,"endTime":3851.605,"body":"in women."},{"startTime":3852.305,"endTime":3857.041,"body":"Um, and from what I learned is also because a lot of women knew how"},{"startTime":3857.041,"endTime":3861.777,"body":"to use herbs and they knew how to cure people and Christianity didn't like them"},{"startTime":3861.777,"endTime":3862.725,"body":"having that knowledge."},{"startTime":3862.985,"endTime":3868.726,"body":"But I've just, what I wanted to ask you, if you concern more about why"},{"startTime":3868.726,"endTime":3874.085,"body":"it seems that magicians have a benign, um, image whilst witches have a really,"},{"startTime":3875.105,"endTime":3876.645,"body":"Uh, involved, okay."},{"startTime":3876.645,"endTime":3883.382,"body":"Uh, the answer is this, um, it's a logical if, uh, very slippery distinction made"},{"startTime":3883.382,"endTime":3890.12,"body":"by the elites who had to prosecute people that those, they increasingly labeled witches as"},{"startTime":3890.12,"endTime":3896.857,"body":"the Middle Ages went on when witchcraft became more and more feared and produced the"},{"startTime":3896.857,"endTime":3898.205,"body":"later witch hunts."},{"startTime":3898.635,"endTime":3904.149,"body":"Witches are people who make a pact with the devil and become the devil's servants"},{"startTime":3904.149,"endTime":3904.885,"body":"worshiping him."},{"startTime":3905.155,"endTime":3906.885,"body":"This is irrespective of sex."},{"startTime":3907.205,"endTime":3912.719,"body":"'cause there are male witches as well learned magicians are under the illusion, the heretical"},{"startTime":3912.719,"endTime":3914.925,"body":"illusion that they can control demons."},{"startTime":3915.595,"endTime":3917.365,"body":"They don't submit to Satan."},{"startTime":3917.755,"endTime":3923.344,"body":"They think they can actually round up some of Satan's ims and, uh, minor demons"},{"startTime":3923.344,"endTime":3926.325,"body":"and turn them into servants of higher causes."},{"startTime":3927.265,"endTime":3932.842,"body":"But of course, any Orthodox Christian will say, this is a no no, no, not"},{"startTime":3932.842,"endTime":3935.445,"body":"to be tried because it never works."},{"startTime":3936.075,"endTime":3936.645,"body":"They say,"},{"startTime":3937.585,"endTime":3940.765,"body":"Now we're going to close with a question that's been asked online."},{"startTime":3940.795,"endTime":3943.725,"body":"It's a very personal question, but I'm gonna risk it anyway."},{"startTime":3945.545,"endTime":3949.245,"body":"So Professor Ton, do you believe in magic?"},{"startTime":3951.245,"endTime":3956.082,"body":"I believe in the power of the human mind to accomplish all sorts of extraordinary"},{"startTime":3956.082,"endTime":3956.405,"body":"things."},{"startTime":3956.945,"endTime":3958.685,"body":"That's a fantastic answer."},{"startTime":3959.935,"endTime":3961.165,"body":"Thank you very much indeed."},{"startTime":3961.165,"endTime":3961.765,"body":"Professor."}]}