Lost Ballparks
Lost Ballparks with Mike Koser is a podcast that transports you back to the golden age of baseball—through the voices of those who lived it. Hear firsthand stories from players, broadcasters, batboys, clubhouse managers, groundskeepers, umpires, and fans who vividly recall what it was like to spend a summer afternoon at Ebbets Field, the Polo Grounds, Forbes Field, Yankee Stadium, Comiskey Park, Crosley Field, and many more beloved ballparks now lost to time.
Lost Ballparks
Rev. William Greason (1948 Birmingham Black Barons)
At 99 years old (he'll turn 100 in September), The Reverend William "Bill" Greason is the oldest living member of the Negro Leagues. From his heroic service in World War II to his career in the Negro Leagues and Major League Baseball, Greason's journey is one of courage, determination, and a remarkable, unwavering spirit of gratitude. Enjoy my conversation with a true American hero!
This episode was recorded before the news of the passing of Willie Mays, who passed away on Tuesday, June 18th, at the age of 93. Rest in peace, say hey kid, the greatest of all time. Over the past couple of years on this podcast, we have reminisced about many of Major League Baseball's great old ballparks. Places like Ebbett's Field, Kemitzki Park, Tiger Stadium, Crosley Field, the Polo Grounds, and many more. But up until today, we've not had the opportunity to talk about the equally important ballparks that make up the Negro League. Parks like Hampton Stadium, home of the Detroit Stars, Henchcliffe Stadium, home of the New York Black Yankees and New York Cubits, Stars Park, home of the St. Louis Stars, and Rickwood Field, home of the Birmingham Black Barons. On Thursday, June 20th, as part of baseball's tribute to the Negro League, the San Francisco Giants and the St. Louis Cardinals will play at historic Rickwood Field in Birmingham, Alabama. Rickwood Field, built in 1910, is the oldest professional ballpark in the United States. It was home of the Black Barons from 1924 to 1960. Close to 200 Hall of Famers have played at Rickwood Field, including legends of the game like Satchel Page, Josh Gibson, Abe Root, Ty Cop, Lou Garrett, Ted Williams, Roberto Clemente, Hank Garrett, Nicky Mano, and in 1948, a 17-year-old Willie May playing his first professional season in baseball as a member of the Black Bearers. May's roommate on that 1948 team that made it all the way to the Negro League World Series was pitcher Bill Greason. Today, at 99 years old, the Reverend Bill Greason is the oldest living member of the Negro League. And today, he is my guest on this special bonus episode of the Lost Ballparks podcast. Reverend Greason, welcome to the Lost Ball Parks Podcast. How are you?
SPEAKER_02:I'm still breathing. Can't be dead with a hammer.
SPEAKER_04:Reverend Greason, you learned to pitch in the 1930s, but by the 1940s, during World War II, you were drafted and became one of the first black Marines. Thank you for your service, by the way.
SPEAKER_02:Thank you, sir. I'm thankful to God I'm still here.
SPEAKER_04:You were on Iwo Jima and actually watched that famous photograph in real life where your fellow Marines raised the American flag amidst the fighting and rubble. What do you remember about that moment?
SPEAKER_02:Well, you know, we were a supplied company, and when once that happened, uh somebody had a bugle or whatever it was and sounded off it. We looked and uh they had a small flag and so it came down and the other one went up. So it was a grand event to take place. Three of those guys didn't make it.
SPEAKER_04:And two of your two of your best friends didn't make it either.
SPEAKER_02:Wilkins and Devani, yeah, I never forget those guys. We were we were brothers, you know, we and the first blacks to be inducted into the Marine Corps. I remember when we first were sold and there were about four, three or four hundred guys where we were at Fort Benning. And the guy came by and picked nine of us out of that crowd. And we knew we had to do well to make our people proud.
SPEAKER_04:And then later you true you transitioned to service uh in Japan. You were actually there right after the bombing at Nagasaki. What do you remember about the aftermath, what it looked like after that bombing and when you arrived?
SPEAKER_02:Oh, it was terrible. That was a sight you don't want to see every day. And of course, you know, we s we were there for about thirteen months. But you think about that's something you never forget when you see what I saw, you you can't you try to get rid of it, but every now and then something happens to remind you of where you were and how God brought you through.
SPEAKER_04:By nineteen forty-eight, uh, Reverend Greason, you were a member of the Birmingham Black Barons, one of the legendary teams in the Negro Leagues. The Barons' home ballpark was Rickwood Field. What can you tell me about that old ballpark that was built in 1910?
SPEAKER_02:Well, it was a nice park, you know, and we didn't you know, we didn't play there every day, you know, whatever the white team was out uh uh was there, we were on the road somewhere. And but uh it was a blessing to be able to play in that park.
SPEAKER_04:You would have some pretty hot days in Birmingham and you had those wool uniforms. Can you tell can you tell me about how hot it would get?
SPEAKER_02:We didn't pay that heat no attention. We were just whenever you're involved in something that's worthwhile, you don't worry about it. God enable us to uh withstand the the heat that was there, and so everything went well with us. I think we can we can withstand more heat than you can, and and you can withstand uh more winner than we can.
SPEAKER_04:That 1948 Black Barons Ball Club was special. One young player was a 17-year-old Willie Mays. What were your first impressions? What were your first impressions, Reverend Greason, when you watched him play that year?
SPEAKER_02:He was an unusual young fella. Willie and our still friends. Uh we were there together and the other fellows were a little older than we were, so we ended up being roommates and even up until now we're still friends.
SPEAKER_04:What made him unusual do you think?
SPEAKER_02:The gift that God gave him. He could throw kids run. And uh God just gifted him with whatever was needed to become who he was.
SPEAKER_04:Do you have any stories of when you were roommates? What what it was like to uh to have him as your roommate on the road?
SPEAKER_02:Well, we didn't very seldom uh were we in any hotels because during that time they weren't kind of places to s stay where we were and we'd only be there date. So it didn't bother us. And he uh he was a good young fella.
SPEAKER_04:You believe Willie Mays is the greatest ball player of all time, don't you?
SPEAKER_02:That I saw, yes.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I I I didn't see nobody, no ball player as good as Willie. And the second one was Roberto Clemente.
SPEAKER_04:Right. Who you played with in the in the mid-fifties.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, Puerto Rico, San Tursi.
SPEAKER_04:Willie later credited you with helping him not just become a better ball player, but a better man. What kinds of things did you teach him or encourage him to do?
SPEAKER_02:It was a paradox. The way up is down. If you stay humble, you're better off than trying to exalt yourself. Stay friendly toward people and don't allow yourself to become so great that you can't deal with people. Uh y everything may work out for you because that's God's doing the gift that God gives you. He wants you to use it for his glory, not for self-exaltation.
SPEAKER_04:Nineteen forty-eight marked the final year of the Negro League World Series. The Barons faced off against Buck O'Neal and the Kansas City Monarchs in the League Championship Series, and you closed out that series and gave the Barons their ticket to the Negro League World Series by throwing a three-hitter. You wanted the ball for that for that closeout game, didn't you?
SPEAKER_02:Yes, uh I didn't feel no team, no hitters, nobody. I think I had something that uh others didn't have, and uh everything went well with us.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, lively fastball, great curveball. And did Buck O'Neal, all those years later when you would see him around, did he talk about how you got him out during that league championship series in 1948?
SPEAKER_02:Uh I think I saw Buck about once or twice. We were somewhere and they had something for us. And boy, he said, you you know how it talks, you luck into everything, and uh I didn't have to argue about it because the results of that last game proved that I still it's pretty good.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Tell me about Blue Stadium in Kansas City, home of the monarchs. Do you remember what that ballpark was like, Blue Stadium?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that's where w that's where I pitched the game that put us in the World Series.
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_02:You know, like other ball pit this you know, the white team uh played there and of course they we played that final game there other than when we played against the Longstair Great. It was a nice ballpark and it was an unusual event to take place for us and play in park well. The greats played.
SPEAKER_04:Reverend Greason, do you remember when you found out that Jackie Robinson had broke the color barrier? Do you remember that moment and what that felt like and what that meant for for you and friends of yours?
SPEAKER_02:Well, to me, Jackie broke the bear before he brought it as he did. Uh I pitched against him in an exhibition game in Montgomery. And uh I I won and I I when I saw him, I just believed that he could he could play in the majors and the others could play, but they just wouldn't recognize as he was. And yeah, I just believe Jackie could do what he did and he came through with it.
SPEAKER_04:You made your major league debut as a member of the St. Louis Cardinals. You were the first black pitcher for the St. Louis Cardinals. Incredibly, Reverend Greason, even though black players began to integrate some seven years earlier, St. Louis still had a long way to go. You were making twelve hundred dollars a month in triple A, and then you were rewarded with a pay cut when you got to the big leagues making just nine hundred dollars a month.
SPEAKER_02:How did you know all of that? How did you know all of that? I have that contract now in in in the house there. And I I was uh I made more with uh Rochester Red Wings and than I did with the Cardinals. So I people wanted to see that contract, so I scratched out that nine hundred and uh just let them guess about how much I got.
SPEAKER_04:It must have felt offensive, but it was one of those situations where they were take it or leave it.
SPEAKER_02:Oh yeah, that was it. Yeah, yeah. And you know you couldn't leave because you're one of the few blacks to play in the majors. It was like having fellowship with other play players. That was a rarity. Very seldom. When you find one close by one of us But it didn't bother, you know.
SPEAKER_04:You made your debut on Memorial Day of 1954 at Wrigley Field. What do you remember about that day walking out at that historic ballpark?
SPEAKER_02:Well, it was something unusual. Of course I didn't I think I enched about three or four innings and they got me out of there, but I didn't didn't touch balls. It was hard to get one of the fellas to c even catch with you because you had to go through that.
SPEAKER_04:So here you are new to the team and as a pitcher you're just trying to warm up and it was hard for you to find someone to play catch with.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Wow. Yeah, they didn't uh they did all they could to it's just being a pitcher, you know, they weren't gonna catch with you because they didn't uh want you to be there. And I didn't when I went, it was alright with me. And when I came back, it was alright with me. And I learned if you give your best, you don't worry about nothing.
SPEAKER_04:Sportsman's Park in St. Louis was the last ballpark in Major League Baseball to end segregated seating up until I think 1944. If you were a black fan, you had to sit in the right field pavilion seats and weren't allowed to purchase tickets in any other part of the ballpark.
SPEAKER_02:Well, it didn't bother us. You know, we were used to segregation and being with the car and nothing. It was just something that didn't bother us because we were used to being uh segregated and even now where I live, I've been here fifty-two years. And I you when you come to Birmingham, I don't know whether you see our church building or not, but sixteenth Street was where I started with my wife. Didn't bother me, you know. I learned it's called what they call it a paradox. The way up is down if you stay humble. You calling me now is a rarity. I never thought you would be calling me, pull me.
SPEAKER_04:Well, listen, I've been trying for a couple of years to just find your information, your contact information. I've I've wanted to interview this is a honestly, this is a dream come true for me, because I've wanted to talk to you for quite some time, but just didn't know exactly how to get in touch with you. But I'm so glad that I I'm able to talk to you now.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, well, it's good to talk with you. Now, God's good to us enable us to even talk to each other, and of course a lot of things haven't changed, and of course we thank God for things as well as it is. The greatest team. Uh yeah, yeah, it was. Let's see, we had 20 made in center, Roberto and and right and Bob Thurman who played with Cincinnati in left field. And George Crow, he was in the majors.
SPEAKER_04:A lot of good players on that team.
SPEAKER_02:Oh yeah, we won a championship. I won two of the games for us to be able to win the Caribbean series.
SPEAKER_04:What did Roberto Clemente call you? What was his nickname for you?
SPEAKER_02:Mia Mano, yeah, my brother. My friend, my brother, my friend.
SPEAKER_04:You were close, right? Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Yeah and Willie and myself, we were kinda inseparable as teammates and everything went well with us. We were just like brothers.
SPEAKER_04:When you were a Marine fighting on Iwo Jima, Reverend Grease, and you made God a promise. What was that promise, do you remember?
SPEAKER_02:That if I got off that island I'd serve him you know, I'd become a Christian.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And once you become involved in church work, you don't know what God have in store for you. So I just I was blessed to get on and get off.
SPEAKER_04:You have uh been preaching ever since. By by the way, you have an old baseball mitt in your study at the church there in Birmingham. Is that the one you played with in the 1940s, that baseball glove?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, oh yeah, it was it was there in that uh weather uniform. Yeah. Yeah, that was one of them that I had when I played.
SPEAKER_04:After over a half a century preaching at Bethel Church in Birmingham, to all the folks who are listening today, Reverend Greason, what good word do you have for them as we close out our time together?
SPEAKER_02:As we close out of our time together, get to know the Lord. Get to know the one who protects and provides for you each in every day. His name is Jesus. So if you get to know him and learn to serve him, he'll be blessed.
SPEAKER_04:What a joy to be able to talk with you. Like I said, I've been trying for the last couple years and I'm finally uh I'm able to make contact with you and so glad that I did. Well, I hope to see you when you come this way. Yeah, I would love to. I would listen, uh you tell me when you're preaching next time in the pulpit.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, on Sunday. I hope to be there the rest of the year.
SPEAKER_04:Thank you, Reverend Greason. You take care, okay? All right, you be blessed now. Well, I hope you enjoyed that as much as I did. There are so many things that jump out at me that stand out about Bill Greason's life. Him being one of the first black Marines, bravely serving his country during World War II, for which he was awarded the Congressional Gold Medal in 2012, the fact that he played in the final Negro League World Series in 1948, was the first black pitcher for the St. Louis Cardinals. And then I was shocked to hear that when he was called up to the big leagues in 1954 on Memorial Day at Wrigley Field, I mean, think about this. Here's a pitcher, and yet there's not one player on the team, not one member of the Cardinals who would warm up with him. Not one. And yet, despite that, despite unthinkable acts of racism throughout his life, not being able to eat in certain restaurants or stay in certain hotels on the road, he has no bitterness, no hatred, just a heart full of gratitude. It's incredible. For more on Birmingham's iconic ballpark and the Reverend Bill Greaton, make sure you tune in on Thursday, June 20th to watch the Giants play the Cardinals at Rickwood Field on Fox. And as part of the tribute to the Necro League, the Giants and Cardinals are gonna wear throwback uniforms, the Giants will wear the San Francisco Sea Lions uniforms, and the Cardinals will wear the St. Louis cars. And finally, next time you're at Kansas City, stopped by the Necro League's baseball museum. I think one of America's most important stories. And it is always worth the visit. The Lost Ball Parts Podcast is produced by John McBride, Kyle Smith, Mike Dunn, John Carter, Curtis Wilson Berger, Michael Kensky, Alex Kemp, Ryan Beard, Xavier Vera, and many satellites. Thank you again for tuning in to this special bonus episode of the Lost Ball Parts Podcast. Looking forward to being back with you again soon.
