Lost Ballparks

Larry Shenk (Phillies PR 1964–2007)

• Mike Koser • Season 9 • Episode 4

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It’s been 50 years since Philadelphia’s Connie Mack Stadium was torn down—but thanks to longtime Phillies PR man Larry Shenk, "The Baron", it springs back to life in this episode. Larry spent decades behind the scenes with the Phillies, and his memory is an absolute time machine. A baseball encyclopedia. From the crack of the bat to the roar of the crowd in North Philly, Larry paints a vivid picture of what it was like inside one of baseball’s great lost ballparks. He also shares untold stories about the legends (Schmidt, Rose, Carlton) he worked with and the golden age of the game most fans never got to see. Sometimes the best storytellers aren’t the ones on the field—but the ones just beyond the dugout.

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Richie Ashburn:

(TV promo from the 1960's) New Phillies Cap. New Phillies caps will be given away on cap night, Monday, June 22nd. And in honor of Father's Day, then we'll get a cap too. And let's not forget Mom. So on June 22nd, everybody in the ballpark gets a Phillies cap with a bright new Phillies insignia on it. In addition, you'll see the season's first Twi-night double hitter featuring the new Phillies and Gene Mauch's Montreal Expos. And between the games, a colorful Trobe string band will provide musical entertainment. So be sure you're at Connie Mack Stadium at 6 p.m. on Monday, June 22nd. See the season's first Twi-nighter. And remember, everybody in the Ballpar k gets a new Phillies cap. And when we say everybody, we mean everybody.

Mike Koser:

Larry Shenk. Can you hear me now?

Larry Shenk:

Yeah, I sure can.

Mike Koser:

Let me start with this. I know growing up, you were a Philadelphia Phillies fan. And um so who were some of the guys that were in the broadcast booth when you were a kid for the Phillies?

Larry Shenk:

It was um By Saam was in there, and Claude Haring were the two broadcasters.

Announcer:

Game audio

Larry Shenk:

Gene Kelly then became the Phillies broadcaster in 50 because the A's and the Phillies decided they wanted to have their games on radio. Up until then, they were only broadcasting the home games. And so by some, out of his loyalty to the A's who gave him the break, decided to stay with the A's and the Phillies brought in Gene Kelly.

Gene Kelly:

They crossed him up with uh what we've been referring to as a sneaky fastball calling it tight near the fist.

Mike Koser:

And those guys sort of brought it to life for you, right?

Larry Shenk:

I mean, as a kid, uh yes, and uh I still like radio because it leaves imagination with a long fly ball to left field. It leaves your imagination. You don't see it. And uh so I try to divide my time between radio and TV these days.

Mike Koser:

And I know back then you practiced your best broadcast voice because for a few years the Phillies conducted a junior Phillies broadcast contest. What year did you apply for that?

Larry Shenk:

Yeah, 1957.

Mike Koser:

You were a finalist. Yeah, I was they chose nine of us. No, there were eight of us, excuse me. We each got to tape one inning at the ballpark, and then they picked the winner out of that, and that person went on radio at some point. It was sponsored by Atlantic Richfield, the sponsors for the Phillies broadcast. I was from a little town in central Pennsylvania, had a pretty good Dutch accent. Yeah. And uh I called a pop-up fly ball to right field that the second baseman caught on the infield. So it I didn't do that well. The year before me, 1956, a guy named Andy Musser won the contest. And then went on to have a great career in the booth with uh with Richie Ashburn and Harry Kalas for several years.

Larry Shenk:

He was from Harrisburg. Right. But when you tried out, how old were you at that point? Uh '57. I had just graduated from high school the year before.

Mike Koser:

So then what a thrill to be able to go into the press box at Connie Mack Stadium to do an inning of a game.

Larry Shenk:

Yes, yes. We went to the Drake Hotel in Center City, Philadelphia, my parents and I, and we had dinner with By Saam and Claude Haring, and I don't forget who else was. Then we went to the ballpark and we sat in the press box, and uh they put us in a booth to do one inning, tape one inning, which I did, and then we headed home. So it was it was a really exciting experience. I had dreamed of being a broadcaster, but I couldn't talk, which was a detriment, I think. Um and you know, I grew up in a small town, everybody knew everybody there, and we were about two and a half hours from the ballpark to Philadelphia. But when some group of guys were going and they had an extra ticket, I got a call, you know, and I would I would go along with them. My dad took me to my first game, which was, I'm guessing it's '48 because we're playing the Red Sox.

Announcer:

So let's go to Shibe Park in Philadelphia.

Larry Shenk:

And some guy was in right field for Boston named Ted Williams, which didn't mean a thing to me back then.

Mike Koser:

Wow. Uh and uh and we walked in the vomitory, and all of a sudden there in front of me was this big green field of baseball. It's a memory I haven't forgotten. Yeah, I it was totally new to me. Uh I'd never been there before, obviously, and it was from a very small town, and now we're in the city of Philadelphia, and uh, you know, we're driving down the street, um 21st Lehigh or Lehigh Avenue, I guess it was, for off of Henry, and you saw rows of houses and so forth. It was not something I had seen before. And uh we entered the ballpark. I don't know where we parked in those days. There was limited parking. I think what we had to, you walked up the steps to get to the upper deck, and you're walking in the concourse up there, and then all of a sudden we know we're in a section, whatever it was, and you walk out through the exit or the vomitory, as they call it, is what the real name is. And there was this big green baseball field right in the middle of the city. It was it was beautiful. I mean, the lights and all that. I don't remember much about the game. Um, my dad was an A's fan because the Phillies, when he was growing up, were so terrible. Uh, he was an A's fan, and and it turns out the A's left town after the '54 season and the Phillies remained. There was a spot on Henry Avenue where you could first catch a glimpse of the Shibe Park light towers, right?

Larry Shenk:

Yes. It was a memory that I always had when we'd go to games in the future. And then later on, when I was with the Phillies, we lived in Roxborough and I drove in from there on Henry Avenue. I don't know exactly where it was, but you could see the lights, the light towers, which really made me excited because I was such a baseball fan.

Mike Koser:

As a kid, when you went to games at Shibe Park, you try to get players' autographs. Shibe Park gave young fans like you a good shot at securing one with the way that the ballpark was set up.

Larry Shenk:

Yes, the uh the the Phillies Clubhouse was on the third base side, uh and they players had to walk across the concourse where the fans were to get to the uh tunnel to go down to the dugout. So kids would hang around there. I was one of them and trying to get autographs. My hero at the time was Del Ennis, and I had a yearbook, and he came out and I fumbled and fumbled to find his page, and now he was gone. Uh, and later on when I joined the Phillies and Richie Ashburn got to know Richie, dealing with Richie, whenever he came out of the clubhouse, he was walking in amongst all the six foot four pitchers, so you can never see him or get to him. So I mentioned that to him one time. He says, Oh, you're one of the little brats that was hanging around all the time to get autographs.

Mike Koser:

There's a great uh Tommy Lassorda story in your book about him waiting in the concourse at Shibe Park, just like you, hoping to get an autograph from uh from Buster Maynard, who played for the New York Giants at the time. Do you remember that story?

Larry Shenk:

Um, yeah, I don't know where I found that story, but I did write that. Uh and uh

Mike Koser:

because I think Tommy's like asking for an autograph, and Buster just pushes him to the side.

Larry Shenk:

Yeah, six years later. Yeah, and uh did he throw at him or something like that?

Mike Koser:

I think Tommy had a pretty good memory, and so he hit Buster. The first two pitches were brushback pitches, the third hit him, and it started a fight. And I think afterwards you know, Buster was like, What are you doing? And he's like, Well, you don't remember me? Yeah, you pushed me to the side.

Larry Shenk:

Tommy was a feisty little guy. Uh I got to know him later on. Uh my best friend in Myers town was a pretty good catcher, and the Dodgers were after him. And Tommy lived in Norristown. So my friend and I were going to a game, and Tommy said, Why don't you stop by the house? So we did. And Tommy was there and he was gracious, and he gave us the book, you know, how to play baseball the Dodgers Way, which was impressive. And uh when he became when he moved to Los Angeles, he sold that house to Bobby Wine, who was an infielder with us in the 60s.

Mike Koser:

Yeah, shortstop.

Larry Shenk:

nd Bobby and I became good friends with the Phillies, and I spent many a time at his house having parties and so forth. It's an amazing story. And Bobby Wine still lives in that same house. So Bobby's up in my age bracket, he's 80, he'll be 87 in September. We're separated by five days, I think it is.

Mike Koser:

And he still lives in Tommy Lassorda's house, which of course is now his house. Yeah, that's crazy.

Larry Shenk:

Yeah, yeah. And so I got I knew Tommy well, and then I became the PR guy with the Phillies, and we dealt with the Dodgers and saw Tommy quite often. And Tommy, I remember he told me one time that he well, he didn't tell me, but he bragged that he bled Dodger blue. And I told him, I said, Tommy, I guarantee you, if you cut your finger, you will bleed Phillies Red.

Mike Koser:

Hey, let's talk about the clubhouse, Larry. The clubhouse at Connie Mack it was small, wasn't it? I mean, unlike today, there was no fancy spread of food or beer. I don't even think there were doors on the on the toilets.

Larry Shenk:

Uh that is correct. And there weren't many of them. The the shower area was small, the the lockers were all metal. You had a metal stool that the players sat on. The trainer's room, you went up a narrow set of steps to a second level. I'm sitting in my living room. My living room was bigger than it was back then. Uh and there was one trainer, and there was one whirlpool. That was about it. Uh, I don't remember any food at all.

Mike Koser:

In the middle of the summer, that had it had to be stifling hot.

Larry Shenk:

And they wore those flannel uniforms, too.

Mike Koser:

Uh, in 1963, you began work as a sports writer for the Wilmington News Journal, and work took you, of course, to Shibe Park. By that time, it had been renamed Connie Mack Stadium. Your first day, April 9th, 1963, happened to be someone else's first few days on the job.

Larry Shenk:

Yes, I was a uh I was a reporter at Wilmington. They sent me to cover the opening day, which was I thought was great. That was the ninth, as you mentioned. Four days later, I was getting married, but I thought going to the Phillies game was more exciting. And um, I was in the press box, and on the third base side where the broadcast booths were at uh at Connie Mack Stadium was Richie Ashburn, his first game as a broadcaster with By Saam.

Announcer:

Next pitch to him, high and outside, ball two.

Larry Shenk:

We were playing the Cincinnati Reds. Well, we were, it wasn't we back then. Uh they were playing the Cincinnati Reds, and that was Pete Rose's first road game. So I saw Pete on the field and I went up to him and introduced myself, and I said, I hope we're around this game a long time, and he just kind of looked at me.

Mike Koser:

Yeah, talk about predicting the future. You called that one. Both you and Pete enjoyed long historic careers um and developed quite a working relationship too, which we'll talk more about in a second. But back to Connie Mack Stadium, the press box, there was a small kitchen in the press box, right? I mean, really small.

Larry Shenk:

Yeah, it was about the size of my bathroom, I think. And we we had two options every night a hot dog or a ham and cheese sandwich. That was it. And uh we were playing the I think we were playing one of the New York teams one time, might have been Brooklyn. And Dick Young, who was a famous columnist for the New York Daily News, went up to the guy in the press box in our kitchen and said he liked a hot dog. So the guy in the kitchen handed him a paper plate with a hot dog on it. Dick Young said, Where's the roll? My kitchen friend said, You didn't ask for a roll. He was kind of kind of a crude older person, and that's the way it was. And it was just Connie Mack Stadium was a great ballpark. The playing field was spectacular. It was one of the best playing fields in baseball, but the rest of it was really antiquated, it was dirty. We had an elevator that took you from the ground level to the press box, but it held four people. And if you were going to go from the ground level up to the press box, you didn't do it very often. You made sure that you were gonna make a one trip if you could and not go up and down because it was so hard to do that. Yeah. Um pretty good sightlines for the fans because they've been around so long, but not much parking at all. The place was dirty and smelly and so forth. But you know, it it was it was heaven for me because I was a big Phillies fan. And when I was working for the Phillies, you'd get to the ballpark for nine o'clock for an eight o'clock game at night. We played games start at eight o'clock at night, and you know, up until about 4:30, it was very quiet. And then the gates opened and the fans started coming in, and the hawkers were there, and the smell of hot dogs, the ballpark came alive. It was just a great feeling, it was a wonderful experience.

Mike Koser:

In 1963, Larry, you were named the Phillies new PR director. October 23rd was your first day on the job. What was your salary that first year? Do you remember?

Larry Shenk:

Uh $7,000, I think it was. Bob Carpenter was the owner. His son Ruly started the same day I did in 1963 in the front office. And then in 1972, which would be eight years later, he replaced his dad as the president. So I went into Ruly's office and I said, Ruly, I don't understand this. I said, we started the same day in 1963. I'm still the PR director, and now you're the president. And he had one of the greatest answers ever. "Check your blood".

Mike Koser:

Larry, tell me about your office at Connie Mack Stadium. Where was it? Where was it located and how would you get to it?

Larry Shenk:

The offices were really antiquated, also. The general manager, Bob Carpenter, the farm director, and one secretary were over at third base on top of the Phillies Clubhouse. I was behind home plate on the second floor. Below me was the entrance to the ballpark where all the players and everybody came in, office-wise, the fans came in at the main entrance, which opened up, but the small one-door office was underneath me. And there was one metal desk in there. It was green. It looked like it was an army surplus desk. It was heavy and stuff for one chair, one black metal cabinet behind me, uh, a half window that you couldn't see out of. Secretary for the Phillies was an older gentleman. He was in the office next to me. I don't know what he did. He didn't do much of anything. Um, but it was it was heaven for me.

Mike Koser:

There are days where obviously the Phillies are on the road. And for those who have never experienced the inside of a major league ballpark when no one else is there, no fans are there, no players are there, there's just quiet and a chance to reminisce and think back about some of your favorite memories in that ballpark. There, there's nothing like that.

Larry Shenk:

No, there really isn't. And you know, if you wanted to go see the general manager, you had to go down the steps, go over to the third base side of the ballpark, a couple set of steps, and that's where he was located. Uh and the ticket office was on ground level on the first base side, and on top of that was a sales office with three people in there. We had 11 total front office people uh back then. Rob Thompson's coaching staff right now has 13 people, which I don't know what the hell they do.

Mike Koser:

So, Larry, the first year that you're with the Phillies, you realized that the Phillies are the only team in the big leagues without a press guide. So you and your wife, Julie, you make your own.

Larry Shenk:

We made one. I I asked the permission to print it and I was turned down, so we decided to make our own. I think we did 300 copies. My wife with a magic marker painted the covers, which was the Phillies logo with the red hat. We put it on a it wasn't a mimeograph machine, but it was some kind of duplicating machine, and they had to cut them and we drilled holes in them, the pages to put the posts in it to put it in.

Mike Koser:

Do you still have one of those press guides?

Larry Shenk:

Do I have one?

Mike Koser:

Yeah.

Larry Shenk:

Well, yes, I do, indirectly. Um, a couple years ago, I thought I don't have a media guide, and the Phillies didn't have one, so I went online and Mike, I spent two thousand dollars to buy a Phillies media guide that I made in 1964. Ridiculous.

Mike Koser:

You couldn't convince the guy who was selling it that I made this, this was mine.

Larry Shenk:

No, I didn't even, I don't know who it where it came from. Uh I still have that, but the Phillies then found one, so they have one in their office in the archives. Uh, we were the only team in baseball that didn't have one. Yeah. And I grew up in their little college called Lebanon Valley College, and they had a football media guide. They were division three. And I took that in and said, Look, the Lebanon Valley College has a media guide. We don't, we're in the big leagues, still didn't do any good. In 1965, I went out and printed it through a printer, a professional printer. I didn't ask permission this time. I did it and turned it in the bill. I survived.

Mike Koser:

Uh, Larry, Gene Mauch managed the Phillies from 1960 to 1968. And while at Connie Mack Stadium, he had the Phillies bullpen move from left field to right field. I guess there were two reasons for that move.

Larry Shenk:

Yes, the public reason is one. The the private reason was number two. I can't verify for this, but the stories are that the bullpen, our Phillies bullpen was in the left field corner, and the players would go in the concession stand and get beer and hot dogs and stuff like that.

Mike Koser:

They had found a secret way to get to get to the game.

Larry Shenk:

Yeah, I don't know how they did that. I don't remember. I was in the left field bullpen ever. And uh, but he decided to move it to right field. The right field wall had a corrugated tin on it, and the ball could hit that and really take a weird bounce. The bullpen coach in right field had a white towel. He could tell if the ball's going to hit the wall or not. And if he waved his towel, then the runner and the first base coach and the third base coach knew that that was in play and we could take advantage of it that way. But then there was also a story that across the street from the bullpen in right field was a bar called Quinn's Bar. We used to go there sometimes before games to get something to eat, other than a hot dog or a ham sandwich. It wasn't the greatest place, but in the earlier years, players used to frequent the bar, I'm told, after the game. So there was also rumors that our relief pitchers were sneaking over there to get a beer at that time, too. I don't know that, but I've heard that.

Mike Koser:

On May 29th, 1965, Dick Allen hit a ball over the Coke sign, which sat atop the left field roof at Connie Mack Stadium. You and local columnist Sandy Grady wanted to see just how far that home run traveled. Do you remember what you guys did?

Larry Shenk:

Yeah, we left the ballpark and we started walking. And we went beyond the left field wall. There was a gentleman sitting on the porch, one of the porches in a rocking chair, and he said the ball landed over there, pointing to a certain spot. So Sandy and I started walking off the distance and we walked from there to the left field wall, the grandstands, and then we walked off what we thought was the length of the grandstand. Then we went back in the ballpark, went up to the press box, and the ball went over the left center field wall, and I think it was 367 or something like that. So we came up with 529 feet. It certainly wasn't very scientific, and I can't verify it was accurate, but that's what we did. Didn't have things back in those days to measure things like that. There was no way you were going to measure this.

Mike Koser:

It's interesting. Several years ago, um I had uh messaged Dick Allen and I said to him, What do you remember the most about Connie Mack Stadium? And he just replied two words, "coke sign".

Larry Shenk:

Coke sign, yeah.

Mike Koser:

Yeah.

Larry Shenk:

In the press box then, we were mounted uh underneath the the roof behind home plate, so we could see the ball going over. A lot of people never saw it go over the foot fence where it went. It was it was unbelievable. Larry Jackson was quoted in the paper the next day, he couldn't believe the ball went that far. Dick had awesome strength, awesome wrists, strong wrists, quick wrists. He was a talented athlete, just not a ball player. I saw him, I saw him in high school play the championship game for Pennsylvania, and they beat Columbia. I think it was a team from Lancaster County. He was a point guard on the basketball team. He was a two-time All-state basketball player. He was a tremendous athlete. He was a gifted athlete. Uh he took he could go from first to third as good as anybody. If he was on first and was a double play ball, he could take out the shortstop of the second baseman with the best of them. You're not allowed to do that anymore. When he came to bat, you didn't turn your head. You stayed and watched, you know. I think if Art Mahaffey said, uh, I talked to him about taking it and what his memories were, he says you not only heard the ball, but then you saw it go.

Mike Koser:

Yeah, and thankful that now, as of this summer, he's in the baseball hall of fame, which is exactly where he belongs.

Larry Shenk:

Yes, it's just so sad that he's not alive anymore to join the to enjoy this.

Mike Koser:

Right. On October 1st, 1970. The Phillies were about to play their final game at historic Connie Mack Stadium. What were the plans and the giveaways for fans that day?

Larry Shenk:

Bill Giles came in as our vice president of business operations in 69. We needed to change our philosophy and everything about how we're going to operate because we had only 11 people, as I said. We were going to a new stadium with 65,000 seats to fill. So uh he brought in Bill Bill Giles with the best move I think Bob Carpenter ever did. And Bill found that they had some wooden seat slats down underneath the stand somewhere to replace broken seats. You know, they were painted red as the color of the seats. And he decided to put a sticker on there commemorating the final game at Connie Mack Stadium and give them out to fans as they came in the ballpark. Which he did. We did. But then during the game, all of a sudden you heard the world's loudest drum section. Rattle rat, rat, rat, rat, rat. They were taking those seats lats and trying to break things and and beating on things. It was unbelievable.

Mike Koser:

Yeah, by the seventh inning, I think there was a real sense that things were about to get out of hand.

Larry Shenk:

Yes.

Mike Koser:

And you and some front office people huddled together down by the fence, you discover that people have brought hammers and wrenches and saws, and they're about to take this ballpark apart, and they may not wait for the end of the game.

Larry Shenk:

Yes, and I was in the press box, so I went down there for that meeting, and I think this is true too. The umpires thought they should call the game, and Gene Mauch, who was the manager of the Expos, said, Don't do that because you'll have a riot if we do that. So we went into extra innings. We won in the 10th inning. As soon as Oscar Gamble touched home plate, the fans just flooded the place. Um Bill had made major plans that we had the Arco helicopter, which was the sponsor, would fly into home plate. We would dig up home plate, the helicopter would then take it and fly it down to Veterans Stadium to be installed for Veterans Stadium when it opened the following year. Well, that never happened. We couldn't, we couldn't get the helicopter because the field was covered. People were out there trying to steal home plate. They were trying to steal the picther's rubber. They tore wood off the left field wall. I saw one person walk out of place with a toilet seat hanging around his neck.

Mike Koser:

Yeah, I mean, by the end of that game, there was not much left of Connie Mack Stadium. And and Philadelphia fans were ready for something new.

John Facenda:

With the dawn of a new decade, the Phillies top brass presided over a construction team that was giving its baseball team a palatial new home. It would be called Veterans Stadium. And when completed, it would seat more than 50,000 comfortably and give a new dimension to a day at the ballpark.

Mike Koser:

On April 10th, 1971, the Phillies opened up at uh Veterans Stadium. And like you said, at that point, Connie Mack Stadium had kind of run its course. So much history, and yet you're ready for something new. What do you remember about the day that the vet opens up and you're transitioning from Connie Mack?

Larry Shenk:

Well, it was it was a it was a great day because we needed this badly. It was the largest crowd ever to see a baseball game in the state of Pennsylvania. It was a cold, cloudy day, but it didn't seem that way. The first ball dropped from the Arco helicopter, and bullpen coach Mike Ryan would catch it, and he did. We won the game, which was great. Uh we were really bad though. We were we had a really bad team. Larry Bowa was on that team and he became a great player. Paul Owens was a general manager at the time. He took over general manager in 72, so um, and he changed some things around and we started building a better team for the future.

Mike Koser:

Yeah, 72. I was thinking about 72 were that that stretch where the Phillies had lost something like 18 of 19 games. And then um to switch things up to try to anything to try to get the team going again. Well what is it called? Turn it around day?

Larry Shenk:

Turn it around day, yeah. It's another Bill Giles idea. We put the scores up the opposite way we started with the ninth inning. Um the the ushers and usherettes wore their name tags on their backs. Um and their hats backward. The hats were backwards. Um, we announced groups that weren't there on the scoreboard.

Mike Koser:

Groups that are not in attendance

Larry Shenk:

yeah, not in attendance. And guess what? We lost.

Mike Koser:

four to three to the Astros that day.

Larry Shenk:

Yeah. We had a lot of wild things. Um, Pennsylvania Dutch um has have hex signs on their barns for good luck and to keep the evil away. We were still at Connie Mack Stadium. Bill Giles and I went to Lancaster County and visited some places that sold hex signs, and we put a hex sign on top of the third base dugout because we were so bad at uh we found out that hex sign didn't have anything to do with a baseball game. So Bill was very creative. He was an entertainer because we had to try and create a pleasant atmosphere for the fan who came to the game because we couldn't control wins and losses. Uh, but we wanted to make sure they had a nice experience. Um, we catered to the kids on giveaway days, a hat or a bat or whatever the case was. We drew well. Uh, we could be at a new stadium too, but we created a great atmosphere for the people that did to come to the games.

Mike Koser:

July 5th, 1976, the Phillies are on ABC's Monday Night Game of the Week, and that meant that Howard Cosell was coming to the vet.

Howard Cosell:

Hello again, everyone. I'm Howard Cosell. This is Monday night baseball on ABC.

Mike Koser:

Do you remember that ?

Larry Shenk:

I Certainly do. Yeah. I certainly do. Whenever we had national TV, which didn't happen until around that time, the visiting teams came in. I always introduced myself to let them know who I am, and if they need anything, they could let me know. So I thought about I need to talk to Howard Cosell. He doesn't need me, you know, he doesn't care about me. But he was sitting in the TV booth by himself way before the game. So I went down to the booth and introduced myself. And is there anything I can do for you, Mr. Cosell, while you're here? Let me know. He looked at me, he said, son, there's one thing you can do for me. I said, What's that? He's can you get me a bottle of vodka? So I went to Bill Giles' office. I said, Bill, I need a bottle of vodka from your cabinet there. He says, Why? I said, Howard Cosell wants one. Before the game. Yeah. I guess he drank it in the limo when he went back to New York after the game. I don't know.

Mike Koser:

Pete Rose signed with the Phillies following the 1978 season.

Pete Rose:

Well, we come to the conclusion that the Reds uh didn't want my services anymore, and that's why I went through the draft. Uh my heart was in Cincinnati for sixteen years, and I wish I could have got together with it for the upcoming seasons, but uh it just wasn't uh to happen. And I decided on Philadelphia, and I feel they got a good shot to get to the World Series, and I think I can be the added link they need to help them get over the hump. I hope so anyway.

Mike Koser:

And at that time, the Phillies played their uh spring training games at Jack Russell Stadium in Clearwater, Florida. Uh and knowing that when the Reds were gonna play the Phillies uh that spring, that uh uh that there'd be a lot of people who would want to attend, you decided to add standing room only.

Larry Shenk:

Yeah, we put a rope up of left field behind the left fielder and packed people in there. Uh any ball that went in there on a roll or a bounce was uh considered a ground rule double, but it was packed there, you know. Pete was the best PR player I've ever been around. Uh and I I really enjoyed the five years we had him because he he was all PR. He he'd do that, he'd do anything for you.

Mike Koser:

And well, I think at the time Sports Illustrated came to you and said, we want uh to do put Pete Rose on the cover, but we want him to slide headfirst into third. Now, listen, today if you were to ask, pick a star, a baseball star, and say, Hey, we're gonna set up a photo shoot. Yeah, we're gonna set up a photo shoot and you're gonna slide into third, he would tell you to jump in a lake.

Larry Shenk:

Uh not in those words. Yeah. Yeah. But Pete, but Pete was up for that. Yeah, he well, you know, we did it. You know, I was concerned about it. If he gets hurt, who's gonna be blamed? Yeah, but I talked to Pete, he said, let's do it. And I the photographer, I forget who it was. I loved the photographers at that side, they were so creative. And we did it. I said we're only going to do a slide it twice, you know. I think it rained that day and there was no tarp there. So the base path wasn't exactly dusty and dirt, it was a little muddy. And uh a couple days later, I got a call from the photographer. Something went wrong with the camera, we didn't get it. We do it again. I thought, oh my so I go back to Pete and I said, Pete, uh, unfortunately, this didn't get. What do you want to do? This is your call. He says, It's a big magazine, ain't it? I said, Yeah, he said, we'll do it. Uh so we I think we only did one time and they took it. I have that hanging in my den here, a picture that the photographer gave me a print of it, and Pete signed it. My my nickname is Baron B-A-R-O-N. Everybody in baseball knew me as the Baron. Pete signed the picture to the Baron, B-A-R-R-O-N. And so, but that's that's fine. He was a real pleasure to be around. And I know what he did, and I know what happened to him. It's so sad because he was he was baseball's ambassador.

Mike Koser:

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Nobody loved the game more than he did. And your son back in 78, I think, Andy, was the team's bat boy.

Larry Shenk:

Yeah, my son came to spring training. Uh he was 10 or 11, something like that. And he'd be the bat boy that for that day. And Pete went up to him and handed him a $5 bill and says, Get me a hot dog. I need a hot dog. And he went to the concession stand, got him a hot dog, came back and gave him the $3 change, and Pete says, Keep the money.

Mike Koser:

So great. And true to his word, just a couple years after he signed with the Phillies, he helped bring a world championship to the city of Philadelphia in 1980.

Joe Garagiola:

Well, Philadelphia Phillies are the world champions....

Larry Bowa:

Everybody saying we couldn't win....

Bryant Gumbel:

Pete Rose. Now you been through this before? Don't you ever get tired of it?

Pete Rose:

No, you never get tired of this, Bryant

Mike Koser:

Larry, your job, difficult on any ordinary day of the baseball season, but working through the World Series and dealing with requests for guys who were known at the time to not really want anything to do with the press, like Mike Schmidt or Steve Carleton, how did you find a way as the PR director to make both parties happy?

Larry Shenk:

Well, I was really fortunate with Lefty. I had a good relationship with Lefty, but he didn't want to talk to the media. He was consistent, which the media accepted and can appreciated because some athletes will talk and they won't talk, you know, if they have a bad game. Whenever Lefty pitched, Tug McGraw came in to save the game. Tug McGraw saved the PR director because he was available to the media. So yeah, that's how we did it.

Mike Koser:

August 10th, 1981, after the long 55-game strike, the Phillies were playing against the Cardinals at the Vet. Fitting because that day, Pete Rose was about to break Stan Musial's NL hit record of 3,630.

Al Michaels:

3,631. To pass Musial. Next up, Aaron. If he stays healthy, that should come time next season.

Larry Shenk:

It was a great day, one of the greatest days I think we have we've ever had. We brought Stan Musial in. Bill arranged that. I didn't do that. And had him been in Philadelphia, he would come to the games, but he would spend the day or evening going to the bookbinder's restaurant for dinner and then come to the game. We arranged to have President Reagan talk to Pete after the game. And Pete broke the record. He got a single to left field.

Al Michaels:

Bouncer to the hole, there it is.

Larry Shenk:

The game was held up. His son came out to hug him. The players came out, and then we brought Stan Musial out.

Al Michaels:

Stan Musial has come out onto the field.

Larry Shenk:

It was a great scene of Musial and and Pete Rose. And after the game, we had a big room behind home plate that was supposed to be a TV studio when we built the place, but it never became one. It was like a big warehouse almost. And that place was packed with the media. And Pete knew everything. He knew who was pitching for the other team, who was hurt, who was hot, who was sent down, who was called up. And I'm walking Pete down to the press conference. He says " I guess you got the president call me, don't you?" I didn't say anything. He knew. We got in there and we had a phone, a red phone on the podium. That was the phone to the White House. And they were going to call us. Pete would answer the phone and he would talk to President Reagan. Turns out he must have had five or six calls from the White House saying, Oh, Mr. Rose, one moment, please. Yes, I'm here. I'm here. I'm here. Uh hold on one minute, the president be with you.

The White House:

One moment, sir.

Larry Shenk:

Mr. Rose, Mr. Rose, I'm still here. Hold on a minute. The president will be right with you. Pete said, I'm glad there's not a missile coming. Slow as he is. So finally he gets through, and President Reagan says,

Ronald Reagan:

Hello, hello. Pete Rose?

Pete Rose:

Yes, sir. How are you doing? Well, thank you very much, and um I appreciate it. And I know that you're a baseball fan, and uh we appreciate you taking time out to uh uh to call us here in Philadelphia. I know all the fans appreciate it, and uh and Pete Rose and Pete Rose II appreciate it too.

Larry Shenk:

Great. It was a great press conference. Um it was really wonderful.

Mike Koser:

You point out in your book a very interesting fact that uh Musial's 3,630th hit came on September 29th, 1963, in the Cardinals' final game of that season and the final game of his career.

Larry Shenk:

Yep.

Mike Koser:

And the hit, which came in the sixth inning, was a ground ball that went right past the Reds young rookie second baseman Pete Rose.

Larry Shenk:

That is correct. I don't know where I found that, but I did find that. You know, and today they come up with more stats than you can ever imagine. You know, back then you had to go through books and books and books of you know there wasn't any computer to spit all of this kind of information. So I'm not sure where I found it, but I I was looking up something about Musial and I looked up for his last hit, and then I went and oh my goodness, he was playing out threads, and then I found the play by play.

Announcer:

 Game audio.

Mike Koser:

Yeah, you can't make this up. It's unbelievable.

Larry Shenk:

No, no, you can't make that stuff up.

Mike Koser:

When I think of Philadelphia baseball, Larry, there are so many things that come to mind from Connie Mack Stadium to Veteran Stadium, Citizens Bank Park, and of course, all the great players throughout the history of the team, so many great broadcasters, uh by some, Gene Kelly, Claude Haring, Richie Ashburn, the late Harry Kalas, and one particular mascot.

Harry Kalas:

While the spirits of Phillies fans have so often been deflated, there is one larger-than-life character you can't keep down for long.

Mike Koser:

The one and only Philly Fanatic. If the Philly Fanatic looks like a Sesame Street creation, there's a reason for that.

Larry Shenk:

Yeah, we had a fellow young man in my department called Dennis Lehman. He went on a road trip to San Diego and came back. He saw the San Diego Chicken and said, we need to have our own mascot. And Bill Giles, who's such a creative person, was a little skeptical. You don't have mascots for baseball teams. The San Diego chicken was a mascot for the radio station that carried the games, not for the pot race. But anyway, so we decided to do it and reached out to the company that designed Sesame Street. And uh he wanted this big guy with a big belly and a big snout, bright green color and all that. We didn't buy the rights to the uniform because Bill was concerned that it wouldn't happen, wouldn't work, and it took off like you couldn't believe.

Mike Koser:

Yeah, the crazy part is I think they were charging twenty nine hundred dollars if they owned the copyright, but five thousand dollars the Phillies could own the copyright. You decided to save the twenty one hundred dollars.

Larry Shenk:

It was April 28th, I think, of 78. I know the years right. And we didn't make a big deal out of it, you know, coming to the ballpark tonight to see what she's gonna see. He just appeared, you know, and people just were stunned with it. I mean, who is this? What is this? And uh we had one person in the promotions department, and we decided that uh she would book the fanatic because he was so much in demand. The demand grew so much that we had to hire a separate person just to deal with the fanatic issues. And uh we've had two people in the costume since we had it in 78. Only two. Only two. And I don't the current fellow's Tom Burgoyne. I don't know how much longer he's gonna be because he's in the I think he's close to 60. Wow, and it's it's a hot and stinky, heavy costume.

Mike Koser:

Well, you think about wearing it uh in the middle of August, yeah. Yeah. September 2003, the Phillies played their final game at Veteran Stadium.

Harry Kalas:

Thank you so much. Veterans Stadium is the building. The memories come from the great people who work here, the players who grace this field donning the uniform of the fighting Phillips. And most of all, the memories come from you, the best fans in America.

Mike Koser:

The vet was the Phillies' home for 33 years. When it finally came time to say goodbye on September 28, 2003, you had some great ideas planned for the finale.

Larry Shenk:

Well, they asked me to choreograph the whole thing, and so a bunch of us went to some other parks. We went to Cincinnati, saw the closing of that stadium, uh, what's it called? Riverfront. Yeah. And there was no ending to it. It just stopped and people just sat there. We went to Baltimore, Memorial Stadium. We watched Atlanta, we watched uh the video of San Francisco. So I I liked what they did in Baltimore. They didn't introduce the alumni when they came on the field, they just came out of the dugout. And I thought that was really cool. And they got great reactions from the fans, you know, when they pop out of the dugout. So we decided to do that. We were gonna introduce the current team, I think about 200 people, uh, athletes, current and past, and one by one we bring them out. I remember uh watching the Olympics, the winter Olympics that year, and the parade, opening day parade in Olympics. There's always uh a flag bearer followed by the athletes from that country. Yeah so I thought that we should have a flag for every year at the vet, and uh uh we had a Phillies employee carry the flag, and behind them that person would come some players from that year. Such a great idea. We spaced them out in the field and then the um closing ceremony I thought the greatest moment in Veterans stadium history was World Series, right? Tug McGraw, Willie Wilson, two greatest players Mike Schmidt in his home runs and Lefty with his pitching. So the thought that I came up with was we'd have Mike Schmidt go to home play with a bat, take a swing, and then Harry Kalas would do his Mike Schmidt home run call, and Mike would trot around the bases. Lefty would go on the mound and he would throw a pitch, and uh Harry Kalas would call swing and a miss, struck him out, and then we'd have Tug walk in from the bullpen, mine that last pitch, raise his arms up in the air, and then he would run, and and Schmidt and Bowa and Boone, those guys would run out from the field, you know, behind Tug was battling the brain cancer at the time he wanted to do this, but he didn't know if he could.

Mike Koser:

Yeah.

Larry Shenk:

Um and it was it was gonna be a last-minute thing. The fans didn't know that. And we found out that morning that he can't really walk in from the bullpen anymore. So we we had a limousine. Pick him up in the bullpen, drop him off at first base, and then he would walk to the mound. We're getting dressed in the Eagles locker room uh with the alumni, and Schmidt comes up to me and says, You know, I sprained my wrist the other day. I really can't swing a bat. I said, Smitty. We're not changing. We I can't change it. You're swinging the bat. Just swing it one-handed, and then okay. Then Lefty comes over to me and says, I can't get my arm up anymore to throw a pitch. I said, throw it underhanded then. We can't change this thing. So

Mike Koser:

the life of a PR director, just trying to manage the chaos and be able to uh adjust and adapt to anything that's thrown your way. And then to have the moment um when Tug McGraw, who's battling cancer and in his final days of life, uh get out of the limousine and walk to the mound at the vet. I mean, that's a moment for people who were there and people who are watching on TV that they'll never forget.

Harry Kalas:

For the final moment on this great ball field here at Veterans Stadium. Final moment to take to the mound when it's time to get one last out.

Larry Shenk:

They all start circling the field for a victory lap around the Warning track. And it was awesome. It really was awesome. You know, we were there for 33 years. We wanted to give it a good goodbye. I the idea was nobody in the stands would have a dry eye anymore. One more memory of the vet, you know. The Eagles hated the place, uh, the media hated the place, but it was our home. We wanted to give it treat it the way it should be treated. And I thought we did a very good job. Uh it was very emotional. You know, I get credit for it, but it wasn't me. I had a great team to work with, great front of his team.

Mike Koser:

People still talk about it. People still talk about it.

Larry Shenk:

Yeah, it was it was it was awesome. And then came the saddest moment when we imploded the place.

Mike Koser:

Yeah, March 21st of the following year, yeah.

Larry Shenk:

Very emotional. Uh watching that just crumble like that, you know. I just got an inquiry from the Philadelphia Inquire this before the show. Whatever happened to the Willie Stargell star, you know, he hot a home run and landed in a 600 level at Veterans Stadium.

Mike Koser:

Yeah.

Larry Shenk:

And we put a wooden star up there with the pirates' colors or black and gold with his name on it. It got stolen twice. I don't know how it did, but it did. So then we decided we're gonna paint it on the concrete. That way, nobody's gonna steal it. So the inquiry wanted to know whatever happened to the Willie Stargell star. Well, it went down and crumbles when it was imploded, because there was no way we could cut that piece of concrete out and what we were gonna do with it. If Willie Stargell was a Philly, maybe we would have saved but he wasn't a Philly.

Mike Koser:

Such great, great stories. Thank you for spending some time with us today. All the best to you. I really appreciate it.

Larry Shenk:

Thank you, Mike.

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Mike Koser

Host