Street Farbrengen Episode 105 - Naiveté and the Struggle for Real

I look around and see so many people struggling to stay inspired — in  Yiddishkeit, with Chassidus and the Rebbe.
And yet, after decades, I still feel a fire when I learn Chassidus.

And honestly? This  itself feels like a question.

Am I naïve? Is this just intellectual excitement?
Habit? Or something real?

In this week’s Street Farbrengen, we wrestle openly with a question many may be  afraid to ask out loud:

How do I  know the inspiration is real — and not just emotional hype, nostalgia, or ideas that happen to excite the mind?

We explore:

The difference between naïveté and depth

Why inspiration fades for some — and endures for others

Chassidus as meaning, as rebellious, discipline, and  desire

What it means to feel the absence of Elokus

And why true connection often shows up as discomfort before light

This isn’t a pep talk.
It’s not about being “frum enough.”
And it’s definitely not about pretending to feel what you don’t.

It’s about oneg and chasaron — pleasure and lack of it.
About knowing what you’re missing because you’ve tasted what’s possible.

If you’ve ever wondered:

Why don’t I feel it anymore?

Is sustained inspiration even real?

What does Chassidus actually want from me?

This conversation is for you.

👉 Listen. Argue. Stay uncomfortable.

Transcript

SPEAKER_05 0:00

Ruven, I I look around me and I see so many people struggle to stay inspired, connected, have a feeling to Yiddishkite, Hasidis, Dereba. And after all of these years, I still get very excited and I'm still impassioned when I learn Hasidis. I I can't understand why. Why them and why mean that?

SPEAKER_04 1:02

That's an interesting question.

SPEAKER_01 1:04

Uh where's the focus on other people's unenthusiasm or your sustained enthusiasm?

SPEAKER_05 1:18

I mean we could we could take it in either direction, but I I'm right now I'm focusing on the Pella that I still feel inspired and connected.

SPEAKER_04 1:29

I don't understand.

SPEAKER_01 1:31

What's your um assumption that brings the question up?

SPEAKER_05 1:38

What's the assumption?

SPEAKER_02 1:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:43

I mean, I I don't know. I I don't know. What's the assumption? Because I obviously do believe that Hasidis is inspiring.

SPEAKER_03 1:52

We're not talking about belief, you're saying that you feel it.

SPEAKER_05 1:54

I know, I'm saying I I feel that and I feel like it can why do you have a question about it? Because I don't see how everybody else doesn't have that.

SPEAKER_04 2:01

So I guess it is on everybody else, but it just feels in other words, in other words, you're a simple peasant like the rest of us. How come you don't get uninspired? Yeah. And therefore, more importantly, how come you are inspired?

SPEAKER_02 2:21

Okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 2:23

So okay. So that could be looked upon as peer pressure.

SPEAKER_01 2:27

Um you may be scratching your head wondering whether you're nuts. Um what actually inspires you about your experiences that inspire you?

SPEAKER_05 2:44

Let's say Hasidas Um the I mean, really since the very beginning, it's the depth, the clarity, the connection to the topic, to yourself, to Hashem, deeper insights into why and how. I mean, it's it it covers everything, and and I've I've constantly seen that in deeper and deeper levels over the years. I I've it just has never failed to you know bring me to that next stage of understanding development within myself, within my relationship. I don't know. It sounds so ridiculous uh in in the sense of like I don't know if that's abnormal or not, but I know you're saying that that's not the focus here, but no, I'm not saying anything.

SPEAKER_04 3:43

I'm asking you, if I mean, first of all, if it's not abnormal if it's not normal, who cares? Why do you care? Working for you. I just in other words, I don't understand the context of the question.

SPEAKER_05 3:56

I I guess it's more do other people not see that? Do what are I guess I'm more curious about other people's experience because I don't see a lot of people have that feeling and have that experience. Like I can't not learn Hasidis every day. It it it it bothers me. It changes my day when I don't do it. And that and I guess what my uncomfortability even in saying this publicly and is is what you criticize me so much for, which is I sound like a stupid ballchuva, you know, bright-eyed bushy tails, but I've been doing it for decades. So I don't know. I don't know if it's like is it eventually gonna wear off because it's stupid to continue. Um and um the when you uh when you criticize me here.

SPEAKER_01 4:49

I am bushy tailed does not mean I enjoy learning and I find it fascinating and I find it uh let's ask you the question in a different way.

SPEAKER_04 5:02

When you learn about, I don't know, soul um Simsum, Kav, all of the language that we have, the ten spheres, uh and you're getting excited about it, right? Mm-hmm. So I'm asking you, why is that not naivete? What are you getting excited about? Because you don't know high cock like the rest of us about a You're right.

SPEAKER_05 5:38

I'm not getting excited about seeing it because I'm not seeing it if that's what you're referring to in terms of knowing. So w what is why wouldn't we say you're being naive?

SPEAKER_04 5:52

Maybe I am.

SPEAKER_05 5:53

I I don't know. Well, what do you think? I I don't think I am. I I think I'm again I you you you categorize things.

SPEAKER_04 6:02

You you have the ability to wide-eyed and bushy-tailed to come in very many different um forms. Okay. You have your form, I have my form. But I'm gonna give you a different form that you can relate to. Wide-eyed and bushy-tailed could also come down as oh, I'm doing now a I'm having a moment of uh. I'm channeling and drawing down and having a download of uh. Yeah. And this is so exciting. Yes.

SPEAKER_05 6:39

Well You're calling it naivete, but yeah, I would use stronger literature.

SPEAKER_04 6:46

Why is your excitement different than that? Oof. Ooh. Ooh. So, you know, there used to be, I don't know if there still is, but in the days of old when hippies were hippies and the Jews were going from you know hate Ashbury to Yerushalaim and going off to Yeshiva, there was a thing called in Yerushalaim called the Jew I think it was called the Jerusalem syndrome.

SPEAKER_02 7:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 7:12

Right? People would come there and they would be conclude that they are their Mashiach. And I just said saw somebody say that in a podcast somewhere. I was ready to rip their head off their shoulders. I never thought I was Mashiach until I became Yeshiva. I mean, what kind of stupid I don't know what they were talking about, but they made it sound like every maybe maybe you told me that. Everyone Belchuva thinks that he was Mashiach. What? You know, oh my god, give me a break. Okay. But in a very certain subtle way, we could fall into that. Because that's the shot panemiaus. Panemius means who am I? Am I this that I'm learning? So if you think you're an Akman, then you know I need to cart you off somewhere. Because you're fooling yourself if you're stable. You're unstable is a different discussion.

SPEAKER_01 8:11

So you know a lot of stable people who believe any whatever.

SPEAKER_04 8:15

No, I don't know anyone who believes.

SPEAKER_01 8:17

So they don't talk like that. You know, but there's I could introduce you to a few, but uh spare me.

SPEAKER_04 8:25

Or you know what, better yet I should say spare them me.

SPEAKER_01 8:31

You know, I I This is something that I've been experiencing, I've believed before. This different this idea in in Pabad, a citizen pinemia screams out in full blast color and sound when I go to my shoul or so.

SPEAKER_04 8:58

Because there is a certain even though they're not balshovas, there is a certain kind of like sinua like that. Why? Because it says it and it's so exciting. So turn up the music, let's dance, and they dance, and they get to the point where even if it's 20 degrees, they'll say they gotta open up the windows because it's warm because they're dancing after so long. And therefore they've experienced what they read. Follow what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_05 9:28

A little bit.

SPEAKER_04 9:29

You're saying that they are claiming that they actually are not saying in the words, but that's that's kind of what I was saying. Okay. And like I just had a c uh a conversation today with I was learning uh I'm learning an amazing piece from the Mitlareb. And I took Remember I told you about the guy who asked me, could you block your own shepah, your own hashpah? And I told him yes, and he got mad at me because I was so sure because someone else told him no, and that's why he hates Kabbat, because we're so sure. And I said, This is what I'm taught. That's all I know. So he hasn't talked to me in like three weeks. So I pulled him over to read with him this week because I thought it was Nagia to him.

SPEAKER_01 10:13

Since he had Black Sheppa, you know. And he what was the Mit Larebba say?

SPEAKER_04 10:27

I don't want to bore you. Well, it would get you excited actually.

SPEAKER_05 10:31

I was thinking more of uh the other people joining us, whether who cares about that?

SPEAKER_01 10:35

So the um the Nakuda was and if you want we can take it apart, but the Nakuda is all of creation began with Kheshach, with Simsum, in order to have war, in order to have love. And that's how all life is.

SPEAKER_04 10:59

You must have a stage of darkness in order to have pass. Right? When I had my fire, that's the idea of after fire you get rich rich, you go through din, and then there's gonna be gilouy. So in there, the Mittlereba says a whole string of examples, and one of the examples is that a businessman, a businessman has to spend lots of money in investment. And he says a very fascinating thing. He says, when does the bracha of his investment take place? It takes hold when he has a state of yush, of w worry, and a sense of complete vulnerable loss of the money that he spent. And now he's like, You remember the Roadrunner? You ever see the Roadrunner um cartoon? Sure. Where where the Roadrunner is is uh the the what was the other guy? Whatever, the fox or whatever, and he goes chasing him and the roadrunner stops, and the guy keeps on going and he's on a cliff, and he goes off the cliff and he's in mid-air and he looks around and he goes, oops, and then he falls right down. Right? So this guy, this guy wanna uh that's what you have to feel when you're uh he says when you're a when you're um a businessman, that when you have your stomach drop because you realize the money is may not accrue and it's in there in the world of vulnerability, that's when the bracha takes place. So that's the khish before before the or so.

SPEAKER_01 12:43

This guy says to me, What about Amuna?

SPEAKER_04 12:50

And what about hishtlah? What about Amuna? Like, because he's saying the Mithra Rebba goes and says that you also have to say, you have to work with the spread sweat of your brow, and you don't know which amount, you don't know where your money is gonna come from, so you have to put out lots of directions and you have to do a lot of effort, and when you give up, when you feel you're that's it, you're at the end of your rope, boom, the bracha comes in. So he goes, Where's the amuna? Where he asked me, and wanted to know in particular, doesn't it say that if you have a MUNA, all you have to do is one thing? Like you make one phone call if you're a salesperson, and you did your eich stadus. Right?

SPEAKER_01 13:39

That's naivety. That's magical thinking that we talk about some. Right?

SPEAKER_04 13:46

That's so one guy who's a wealthy dude in the shool, he asked him as we were learning, and he said to the guy, Yeah, that's good for Reb Zusha.

unknown 13:57

Right?

SPEAKER_04 13:58

Reb Zusha would knock on the door, but he wouldn't knock on the door and he'd say, Abish to give me money, uh give me food, and he wouldn't knock on the door and then the food would come. So he says, But that's not everybody's avoided, right? Okay. So that's what naivete means. So the question maybe you're really asking ourselves is if I'm excited about Chasidis, how do I know I'm on the level that I'm excited about? That it's real.

SPEAKER_05 14:30

And not the naivete.

SPEAKER_04 14:33

Good question. And number two is part of that naivete is if since you are a spiritual-minded person, Zakaria, and you were a thinker before you ever came into the base matrash, before you ever heard of Shabbat or whatever. So you're excited about interesting ideas. And there's nothing more interesting than Hasidis for various reasons. So maybe I'm just getting excited about the ideas. It's an intellectual site. Okay, and how much you know uh I've said this I think a number of times here, but certainly you've heard me say it otherwise other places. The Maggit's vow about Moisha excuse me. Moisha and the burning bush, and how come he's only meeting a bush and not a tree? And Rashi explains it says something to that effect. But bottom line is the Magad says a tomudchachum, his fire is about his questions. He's looking for the answer, curiosity. But when the answer comes, the fire goes out, and he has to come up with a new question. So he couldn't understand the burning bush. The burning bush, it wasn't consumed. So it's not question answered, question, answered, question, answered. So he he couldn't fathom why is it not being consumed? What kind of life is that? Okay. So now let's flip the question on Neva Tay. What about the guy who's a balamuna? Simple yid as we call it so much in the literature. And he's has no grasp in Sekol about anything or very little, whatever. And he's always excited about putting on his fill in and um I don't know, listening to the Tara and his talent and everything else. And you're saying what's what's better in is that the level of your excitement? No. Okay, so then that's a real so your question's not about the guy who's not excited. Your question is is how come I'm excited if I'm not like the Pasha de Yid, unless you are?

SPEAKER_01 16:55

How's that? Okay. Um what was your first how what was your first question?

SPEAKER_05 17:01

The first one was was was simpler. It was Are you doing it because of the excitement of the mind? The excitement of the mind. So definitely, yes. That is probably the majority of it.

SPEAKER_04 17:17

So like you said, it just You had the same feeling with with Kamara? No. So then it can't be just the excitement of the mind.

SPEAKER_05 17:24

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 17:25

Because there's lots of that in Kamara. Unless, you know, you could argue say that you know every everyone has their own boat that floats, you know, on the on your own waters.

SPEAKER_05 17:34

Yeah, but it it it's not so much No, it it well listen, it it started out very intellectual, like you're saying, like before I came to it, this is what I was into and searching and learning and asking and you know, so this was searching?

SPEAKER_01 17:54

Yeah. What does that mean?

SPEAKER_05 17:58

So what do you what do I mean by searching? I was searching for Emmas. I was searching for what was the path, what was the Well, I was do I was doing the search in a very intellectual way.

SPEAKER_01 18:15

Okay. So I'm saying that there's always been an intellectual component of it.

SPEAKER_04 18:22

So we go back to this brings up from you what what we've said many times when my good friend Barak and Mayanat told me in a conversation that it used to be that in the Balshova Yeshiva that he teaches in, people would stay for two, three, four years. And now they're only staying for two, three, four months. He wants to know why.

SPEAKER_01 18:44

We discussed it, we came to the conclusion that in our day, meaning a long time ago, people were looking for God. Now they're looking for meaning.

SPEAKER_04 19:02

How long does it take for you to find meaning? If you if Hasidis tells you you're about a this and that, it's like you go, okay, you found your meaning. Right? Then you have a really good question, how come that's sustainable? It's not that's a real just intellectual or I don't even know if it's intellectual really, because there is so little meaning around, but when you find it it's precious. But it seems to be that it doesn't have the oomph that you need all the time.

SPEAKER_05 19:35

Well, if you're not if you're not anchored in Torah, it's not doing Torah. Well, I'm saying if they're only staying a few months, they didn't learn how to learn. They didn't learn a lot of foundation. You can't you can only get so much in a few months.

SPEAKER_04 19:52

You're referring to the guys who grew up. You know what the real question you want to ask? How? How is your dove bear who just had a bar mitzvah going to be excited ten years from now?

SPEAKER_01 20:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:08

That's the That's your question. That's exactly my question. And he doesn't have your experience. That's right. And of no Yiddishka. Thank God. But yeah, the the Well, yes and no. I'm saying thank God, but yeah.

SPEAKER_05 20:25

You know, I I do. And listen, I mean, it's always the the funny way of thinking about yourself coming to Yiddishka if you were brought up from would you have stayed or would you have been one of these other I'm saying like I know, but I'm just saying like you, Ruven, are a um a rebel. You are a you you're a rebel by nature, so it fit for you to become a Balchuva in the rebelliousness of how you rebelled from your um childhood to become a hippie and then ultimately to become a chussid.

SPEAKER_04 21:03

If I went from my childhood to a chassid, I'd agree with you. But I was having a good time as a hippie.

SPEAKER_05 21:10

I know. No.

SPEAKER_04 21:11

There was no reason to rebel.

SPEAKER_05 21:13

No, no, no. I'm not saying rebel in that regard. I'm saying rebel as in like the comfortability of being okay to change and to there's a rebelliousness in in changing, regardless if uh you're you're doing something negative or not.

SPEAKER_04 21:35

I think we were still in maybe just out of yeshiva together when he wrote it, that his Rebbe is a rebel.

SPEAKER_01 21:43

Yeah. So okay, fine.

SPEAKER_04 21:46

So and the and let me ask you a question. I don't want to get into the weeds and have a uh get into controversy, but the Meshachistan, are they rebellious? It's a good question. Is the Rebbe rebellious against against uh Gullus?

SPEAKER_01 22:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:06

Is the Rebbe rebellious against certain norms in Yiddishkite?

SPEAKER_05 22:10

Yeah, that is the norm of gullus is actually probably what he fought against the most.

SPEAKER_03 22:16

That you shouldn't be comfortable.

SPEAKER_04 22:18

Is Basi Lagani sh I take the word should and throw it out the door? Is Basi Lagani Kadusha rebelliousness? Yes. Okay. According to the Rebbe, that's the whole mahos of uh the Aslumishkan.

SPEAKER_05 22:36

Um I'm I get it.

SPEAKER_04 22:37

Okay. So now if you're looking for meaning within context of you know lifestyle, you have a problem with chasid.

SPEAKER_01 22:50

Because that's not its function.

SPEAKER_04 22:52

You're it by essence you know that I told you once a story there was the uh this famous Zionist literature writ I mean writer. Um I think yeah, the third of the century, uh early past century, um Echeda'am, I think his last name was Ginsberg, and the Echeda Um was was a leader of the Zionist movement, but from a cultural literature kind of a place. And he had Yachidas with the Rebbe with the Reb Rashab. And they when he got out, the Khasidin were all, you know, like, wow, this guy is like, you know. What did he experience? So they asked him and he said, I can just tell you one thing that the Rebbe Rashab is Yoidea Sulamoy, he knows his world, he knows the world, Viniskavin Limroyd Boy, and he has the intention to rebel against it. There was a play on Amalek knows his master, Yoideas Riboyno Vinskavan Limroyd Boy, he changed it to he knows the world, not he knows the master, and he goes and he wants to go uh against it. In other words, naivete is not the reb of a shop. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:10

Because he knows the world. And maybe that's your difference. Okay. So then go back to your question.

SPEAKER_04 24:28

Right? So you've been there. And not that it was so terrible, but comparison, um, you know that it's not cracked up what is what is what what it's not what it's cracked up to be.

SPEAKER_01 24:42

Your son, using him as an example, doesn't know that.

SPEAKER_04 24:47

Now, you know the old we once talk about the Amish have their thing where you go for a year and you leave, and if you if you if you want to go stay in the world, go stay, and if you want to come back, come back. Well, we don't do that. But in a certain sense, every time you stick your toe uh in the water of you know they're called uh Maime Gnuvium, you know, the stolen waters over there.

SPEAKER_01 25:16

Um that's what you're doing. Yeah. Because you don't know what it's like. So maybe that's why you have uh so now what do you do for him without having him to go?

SPEAKER_05 25:32

Yeah, and and what that's why I'm a I was asking the question is like what do people do? Because I see that people don't have it.

SPEAKER_04 25:42

So you I mean Hasid answers and says they have Amidas and uh and um and your soy. So it's basically the lower levels of we show up because you don't have to go to Hasidim. How do in your mind, how do modern orthodox people stay from? Okay, it's a pillow. I don't understand. Right. So you don't understand? I can find I'll give you an easy way to understand. Look at your habits. Every time you put on filling, you're jumping up and down in excitement? No, no, I understand. So yeah, you could ask it habits and they have those habits a little bit more isolated because they don't have custody the same thing. How different are you?

SPEAKER_05 26:40

Yeah, no, you're you're right. And and I guess that's the the personal looking at myself with this question is not actually about other people, but you're absolutely right.

SPEAKER_04 26:52

I I still I still don't learn, I still don't dive in, I still don't do his boniness on the level that I want to, and after all these authorizes and tanya, do you do the saying, do you bench uh after eating bread the way you should? Right? Are you doing the war commensurate with the burning oven that's your baker oven that you have, you know? And this I saw something in this myvail I was referring to from the Imre Binap in the middle of it that he says something in that idea of you have to have Khoishik and then or he connects it to the Gamara says, Amos Palam and Koivid Royce the Davan with the humble humbleness, right? Koivid Roy. Rashi says, you're humble.

SPEAKER_01 27:40

So what do most people translate in their mind to mean davan with these with Koivid Roy with Achna? What do you think? That they are nothing.

SPEAKER_04 27:58

I'm no good, I'm this and that. That's not what the Middle Rabbit says. I you can still bite it with that mouthful, but I'll tell you why why it's he says it's in context of that he's saying that your pain is commensurate with the objective of your oinig. The more oinig you have for something, the more painful it is when you don't have it.

unknown 28:28

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 28:28

So he says, what is it the mean, the Gemara mean when it says, anyways talent Khavid Roish? I feel broken. I don't see or have elokus. I think he says the words gila, there's no gila elukus. Okay. Now, that's not saying why. Yeah. It could be because I'm screwing everything up, but that's not what he says. Yeah. It's not a you cause. It's not a Keshman and Nefish of the No wait. It could be a Keshman Nefesh, but that's not your objective. People think the Keshman and Nefish, or with the the the self-evaluation in the negative, is the Taklas. And the more you beat yourself up, the more religious you are.

SPEAKER_05 29:16

Yeah, but here it's just the actual lack of feeling of It's the lack of Giloy of Elokos.

SPEAKER_04 29:22

That breaks you. Therefore you dovin. And you're dovening for elokos, and you're Davening to be Ms. Boynton, and so on and so forth. So the the the one who grows up for a large part of his adult life, or at least a part of his adult life, without any concept of elegance, and comes to Yiddishkai, is not as difficult to keep that as of the objective. Either below consciousness or very conscious. That's what I'm looking for.

SPEAKER_01 30:03

Like you said, I'm looking for empathy. But somebody who ha doesn't yet hasn't experienced that's the objective, then they don't have sorrow, then they don't have it. And you're saying, how come you don't have sorrow that you're not unintense So you know we've we've we've touched on this a lot, but when the Rebbe speaks about Mashiach, especially in the in the later years, it wasn't in the context that things are bad. It was in the context of there's no Gila we need Gilai elokus. Right?

SPEAKER_04 31:02

So now what's the rhetoric when it comes to being a Lababacher connected to Mashiach, to the Rebbe's drive of Mashiach? We need Mashiach because things are bad. Well, no, but I mean uh I'm saying beyond that. Like, what do you what's the rhetoric to do what?

SPEAKER_05 31:24

To do more mitzvahs to do more to be zeichash. Yeah, bring more light into the world.

SPEAKER_04 31:29

Yeah, we more light in the world, yeah. What else? Yeah, whatever. I mean, I'll all Okay. Who's saying we want Giloyelakus? Nobody You know, one of the things I I I came to the realization just recently that was a little uh I asked myself myself There are two things that I do generally without any struggle. I go to the gym every day and I eat rather clean and healthy. And I don't have a problem turning away from cheesecake. Okay, and I was at the oil today. I don't need to have oil cookies. That's what they call it now, by the way, everywhere. Oil cookies. So I thought to myself, why when it comes to those two things I have no struggle and all the other areas I do struggle in, like what's the difference? What's what's missing or what's off the track? I don't know, whatever.

SPEAKER_01 32:38

You gotta go and I came to the realization that for me on a semi-conscious level or or more, I know if I don't go to the gym today, I'm gonna lose out on a visceral level, I know I'm gonna feel different.

SPEAKER_04 33:04

I'm not gonna have the same, even call it a if you want to be a little sarcastic, dopamine rush, and I want it. And if I don't learn get up in the morning, and if I don't eat healthy, I'm gonna feel it a half an hour after. I feel it right away. And if I don't, like you said, if I don't learn chasidis, I'm gonna have a deflated feeling today. So because you're margish, the oinig to a degree, you're feeling you can be margish, the lack of that oinig on the sar that I will have if I don't do it. So that I do it without a struggle. Okay. So I go to Basilagani. Ain't Adam Avera el Shandizoy Ruhaks. Person doesn't do an Aveira unless the Ruhstus covers over them over them. And what's the ruhstus? It feels like he's still being Jewish. A guy actually came to me in Shul one day a couple of months ago and said, You can be feeling connected to God while you're doing an Aveira. He got very upset that I said, Well, I don't think so. You may think you're connected to God, but Okay, so and I understood a little bit what he meant by that, but you know, whatever. So so the so the the Rebbe Friedrich Rebbe says, What's the ruachstus? You don't margish that by doing the avera you're cutting yourself off from elokus.

SPEAKER_01 34:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 34:41

And I this year when I was learning it, I said, Who's Margish Elakus? That then when they do the Avera, that they feel that that they need the ruach stus to cover over the feeling. But that was the conclusion I came to. But the same way I'm Margish, that if I don't go to the gym, I'm gonna have a tired day or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 35:06

Uh and so too with with uh um eating healthy or learning chasidis in the morning, we could come to the level of feeling something not emotional, hairgish, that I don't want to lose that hairish. And that's that's gotta be big objective to feel that hair.

SPEAKER_04 35:34

Then you can so you have that contrast hairgish a little bit because of your experience of history of your life, because you know what it's like. You didn't know what it was like when you didn't have it. Yeah. But now you know what it's like. Right?

SPEAKER_05 35:48

Looking back at it and so forth. So it goes back to the question then to the you know, the 13-year-old, 20-year-old, 30-year-old, 40-year-old. What do you what do you do? I mean, it's not a question for me, obviously, in that regard, even though again I could apply it to different areas where I'm not you know feeling elacuse, but I was spoiled because I had forbrengins to go to and you just felt it.

SPEAKER_04 36:15

Yeah, so I'm saying I never had that, so again, what do you do? And not only that, I remember inspiring Chasidim for bringing. You know, I just saw recently Rabbi Gordon tells the story of his father. I'm sure you've heard it. Very famous story where he got a job in uh Maplewood, New Jersey. This goes like Friedrich Reb was still Rebbe. And, you know, like the first week he goes there as rabbi, and he speaks about Shabbos, and they tell him, you know, you're embarrassing a lot of people here, Rabbi. A lot of most people drive the shool on Shabbos. So the next week he speaks about kashras and they tell him a similar thing, and now he doesn't know what to do. So he he what's he gonna do? So he goes to the Frida Karebba, and the Frida Karebba gives him an Aitza that he that his uh Rabbi Gordon tells over that his father said he lived for sixty years with this Aitza and he never needed another piece of Aitsa. What was that? So he gave him over the the the mushroom. He says, Did you ever go into a schritz? So as there's usually like three layers of benches, let's say. So the higher you go, the hotter it is, right? So the ones who go first, they they you go from one level to another level, the highest level. Now you're really schritzing, and they have these brooms with I don't know what the eucalyptus brooms or something, and they and you slap the guy and makes him feel feel even better while you're he's uh so he gets to the hottest point and then you slap him with this with this eucalyptus. So the pretty karibba said that's what you have to do with your congregation. You have to warm them up by elevating them, and then they're gonna ask you to hit them.

SPEAKER_01 38:10

Right?

SPEAKER_04 38:11

So it's such an interesting uh and it's true. So you have to warm them up first. So we uh you know, a lot of us were spoiled because I guess because besides the Rebis of Brandons, I mean they were big custodium. So maybe that's what learning consistency is for you.

SPEAKER_01 38:30

It kind of inspires you, lifts you up a little bit. But it does say that in its forum that holds it up.

SPEAKER_05 38:40

So uh again, to those who don't feel that though, and again, even to my own self where I don't have that experience of excitement and it doesn't carry through to that. Do I think I can what? Have that experience. Yeah, because I have it in one area. I know I could have it in others. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 39:00

So the question comes down all the time to the same question. That's all the time.

SPEAKER_05 39:12

So proactive would mean pushing yourself to do it with the understanding that the effect that you want to have like m take your gym example, that you know that eventually if you make it a habit, that you'll feel the pain of not having it when you don't do it. Is it something like that?

SPEAKER_04 39:35

It'll become a habit.

SPEAKER_05 39:36

Yeah, but I'm saying, and then you'll feel the pain of not having it if you miss out on it. Meaning it'll become and the and the hergish of having it. And the heragish of having it.

SPEAKER_01 39:48

100%. Now um You know, as as someone point some you know, we we spend a lot of time on this.

SPEAKER_04 39:58

That the narrative And I I see this more and more and I'm getting more and more convinced that I'm right. Which is very rare, even though I sound like I always think I'm right. And that is the narrative of Lubavitch Khasith was given over by refugees from Russia. So at the uh the way that they internalized living against the entire culture the way they had to, under threat of imprisonment, etc. etc. was be a soldier. You're a soldier and that's it. And that's how they, for example, taich out um how they translate bital, right? Be nullified, right? Do mitzvah's like a chosen, right? It's not for you. It's not don't have any ego, etc. etc. Okay. Someone told me last week an interesting giving over a sicha, and he wanted to say that it was saying the Rebbe was saying be a soldier, which I'm always saying that we gotta get past that language, right? So what was the Sikha? The Rebbe brings out that that famous chapter in Tanya, where it says that the difference between being a server of God or a servant, server is in present tense tense, server sorry, server is in present tense, servant, is you've already made that title level, is the difference between that in the days of the Gumara they would learn everything was by uh oral repetition, right? It was the Gumara wasn't written down yet. So the oral the learning of the oral Torah was repeated a hundred times. That was norm. Can you imagine your 13-year-old son today going over the same material, the same pasik, and the explanation of that pasik one hundred times? Okay. So the the Gemara says the one who's the servant is the one that does it a hundred times. The one who's serving God does it a hundred and one times.

SPEAKER_01 42:10

Right? Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 42:11

Beautiful. Then he brings them another mushal from a Gemara, which says that there were taxi drivers, I don't remember the numbers. You probably remember the numbers, maybe, that uh let's say they would charge a zuz to go X amount of miles. Ten pars, doesn't it? That's a thousand. And now if you wanted to go eleven, just one tenth more, you would charge double. Why? Because they're going beyond their nature of going only ten parses, right? You gotta pay double if you're gonna go past their nature. Yeah. So the Rebbe asks, why but what do we need that mushroom for? What does it add? We know already if you do a hundred times, you're learning, versus a hundred and one times. Yeah. So he answers, and the Rebbe says that the khiddish by the the donkey driver, taxi driver, is he doesn't want to do the extra ten. So you have to pay him double. The example with with the learning is that he wants to break his habits. And the Reb is saying that you're still called a server of God in the present tense, even though what you're doing is not what you want to do. Which is which is soldier.

SPEAKER_01 43:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:40

Ah. But the Reb is saying, I said to the guy, wait a second, wait a second, wait a second. The Reb is saying in the Tanya that the first mushroom of learning is one level. And even the taxi driver is serving, even though he doesn't want to be there. What is that saying? That we're our avoidance to be a taxi driver? To be like that guy, or be like the server of 100 and 101. The condition is that even if you don't want the rev is not suggesting that's your that's your bar of of excellence, that's your objective. To just hoof it the rest of your life like a like a like like a donkey. Right? Yeah. And but that's how he took it. Yeah. Because he only heard that part, and that was what was given over.

SPEAKER_01 44:34

That's insane. Yeah. Okay. So I think it all comes down to in the end too.

SPEAKER_04 44:43

Do we want do I guess it comes down to do we want to be lazy?

SPEAKER_01 44:48

And number two is do we think that there's a payoff if we're not? Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 44:57

So to transition from naivete to reality of inspiration or whatever. I forgot what you said, the contrast.

SPEAKER_04 45:08

The guy who does 100 and 101 is not inspired to do it. I'm not inspired to go to the gym. What does that mean, inspired? Oh, it's such a promise. It's not a carrot at the end of the No, I got it.

SPEAKER_05 45:26

You're you're right. Right. So not so what's a better word? I I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 45:29

I really bristle. Oinigansar. Okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 45:37

So again, getting out of naivete. I like the I like that story of the rubber shab that you were saying, that it wasn't he knew the world. He knew what he was rebelling against.

SPEAKER_04 45:49

Oh, he knows the world. He knows the world rebels against it anyway. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:54

I don't know about anyone, but he rebels.tv studio speed.