Street Farbrengen Episode 117 - Self Reliance? Dutiful recognition?

1991. 
“I’ve done all I can. From here—it’s up to you.”

The line that lands heavy, leaves some in shock and some in resistance.

From Reuven's meeting with a  flower-crowned guru in Seattle…
to moments that feel spiritual—almost transcendent…
to the quiet personal  work of growing—

Reuven and Zacharia sit to resolve where and when does reliance end…
and responsibility begin?

Where is a Chassid? In  self reliance, or in dutiful recognition of who is the leader?

Transcript

Koyach Nissan And The Fork

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Another year has passed. It's now Koyach Nissan, the twenty eighth day of Nissan, that famous address from the Rebbe, where he said that he did all that he could, and now he's giving over the task to the to us. At that time, in 1991, Tarshin Nud Olive, there was a real fork in the road there where you could, and the people did, protest the Rebbe's statement. It's all about you, Rebbe. You have to do it. We can't do it. And we know some of the reactions that the Rebbe displayed from that statement.

SPEAKER_00 0:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 0:42

I get that. But do we have the same conflict today? Do we struggle with the same fork in the road? Is it up to us or is it up to the Rebbe? And maybe we only have one side where we think it's all up to us.

Is It Up To Us Today

SPEAKER_00 1:51

And I mean, you're looking at me, but completely up to us, meaning there are still plenty of people who completely rely upon the Rebbe, miracles, Igris, the oh hell.

SPEAKER_03 2:04

Okay, so I'm gonna exactly I'm gonna ask you this question. Are the guys in 770 who go around in a circle all every Marav with flags? And as somebody in my shul sent me this video of them going to get Koitschal Bracha, Mozzi Shabbis, and he was not just Mochi Yamtiv, and you know why he sent me that. Are they saying that it's still up to the Rebbe?

SPEAKER_00 2:34

Yeah, I think so.

SPEAKER_03 2:36

You think so? Obviously, there's the Is Yiqi up to the saying it's up to the Rebbe, or is Yihi saying it's up to us?

SPEAKER_00 2:44

Well, really, in the way that the Rebbe says that Sikha of Yiqiyamelch is that it's up to us, that we're giving Kayak to the Rebbe, but the way that it's done, the way the way that you're describing with the Koshal Bracha and different, it it very much seems, and again, I'm not one of those people, so I'm not in their head and don't know, but what it seems like is that yes, they are fully still relying upon the Rebbe to do.

SPEAKER_03 3:10

That's the way I look at it, also. So it's interesting because being in the shoulder that I go to, with all of these, how should we say, we like to say Polish or Chasidim, the Rebbe is everything to them, whether it's Rebnachman or mostly it's Rebnachman, Reb Shayala, that they are the givers of life and sustenance and happiness, and that they just rely on the Rebbe on and on and on and on and on. And it's an in a sense, it's an anathema to Chabad Chasidis. Yeah. That's all up to us. Right. So what is the if you ask yourself an honest question, then what is the function of a rebba to a chabad chosid?

SPEAKER_00 4:04

That's a great question.

SPEAKER_03 4:06

Okay, let's make it more personal. What is a function of the Lababaj Rebbe to the Chasid Zukariolipit.

SPEAKER_00 4:16

It's an even better question. The I could tell you the philosophy.

SPEAKER_03 4:24

No, I don't want the follow-up.

SPEAKER_00 4:25

Which I know you don't want. I hate philosophy. I got that.

SPEAKER_03 4:28

Philosophy is for Greeks wearing togas.

SPEAKER_00 4:33

That would actually look quite nice. But anyway. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_03 4:37

No, I think if uh well, maybe if you shave your legs. Okay, go on, no. The and and the people listening think we script this. Yeah, go on. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 4:53

Yeah. So uh honestly, without the philosophy, if I'm stripping myself of the philosophy and just I don't know the answer. I don't want you don't know the answer. I don't know the answer right now. You do you know what I mean, right now? I'm saying it's a it's a fluid thing that I fluid. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:15

What's fluid?

SPEAKER_00 5:17

My relationship with the Rebbe, his function as your Rebbe, as my Rebbe is ever evolving.

SPEAKER_03 5:27

And so fluid and evolving are two different words.

SPEAKER_00 5:30

Okay, so uh evolving, you're right, you're right. That's that's a more accurate term.

SPEAKER_03 5:35

Well, where is it now before you evolve into the from a dinosaur to a uh whatever they talk about in terms of evolution? What what happened after a dinosaur, actually, according to them? I don't know. I haven't me neither. You could ask them. Frankly, Scarlet, I don't really give a damn. Okay. No.

What A Rebbe Is For

SPEAKER_00 5:54

My relationship with the Rebbe is in the in the the two aspects that it does talk about in the quote unquote philosophy, but the the king and the father, to look at the Rebbe as a father figure when I need chizuk, when I need, you know, when I when I need a pick-me-up, when I need to feel connected, when I get rid of all of my shoulds, you know, that we talk about. Yeah. What's left is the Rebbe learning like my default safer that I always go to, that I know I'm going to feel connected, is actually Lukute Deborum, so the Friedica Rebbe, but like I go to that. I I gravitate towards that. Okay. And then the the king aspect, which is the, you know, this is the this is the person who I'm looking at, who I'm trying to connect myself to, that's you know, a struggle because he's so far beyond anything I could grasp.

SPEAKER_03 6:56

So let's flip the question now. What does it mean? Do everything that you can and don't rely on me.

SPEAKER_04 7:09

I don't know. What do you think it is? Uh uh Febregen, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 7:13

I know, I'm I'm not sure. I I I um I have plenty of theory, but throwing theory at the point. I'm saying in terms of like how you feel, and like I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 7:26

You know, I've been going to Febrangens for the last number of years, and I know I'm a little bit of an epicoris, but I've been feeling like I'm listening to a communist apparatus giving me dogma at every stinking Febrangen, and it drives me insane. I know the dogma. Say something real, say something how you're feeling. Anyways, but feelings I guess are for people in Berkeley or something like that.

SPEAKER_00 7:52

Um what is it to you? So first start out with your question. Who is the Rebbe to you?

SPEAKER_03 7:58

And then ask yourself Who's the Rebbe to me, or do you mean relationship, or is that the same? I can say the Rebbe is Talmud Khacham needs to be. No, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 8:06

It doesn't mean that I'm saying relationship, yes. Okay. And then ask yourself the same question. What does it mean that it's all up to you?

SPEAKER_03 8:14

I think very simple. To me, the Rebbe is my source to feel that everything's up to me and that I have the ability to do it.

SPEAKER_00 8:32

Okay, explain that please.

Do Everything You Can For Real

SPEAKER_03 8:40

You know, uh maybe I have to give you a little bit of historical background. I was thinking about it after I read on COLLive.com this controversy about deep breathing again that came up for some reason. And somebody actually sent it to me from outside of Chabad and they were discussing it with me.org, but yeah. No, I was it was also on C O L so I wanted to check I wanna go back, I want to paint a sing scene to you. I'm in Seattle, Washington, nineteen I'm giving my age away. Nineteen seventy seven. I was dabbling with Chabad, but very, very, very little. Like I went there for Rosh Hashanah or something. And I'm in Seattle sitting on a floor cross-legged with about another hundred and fifty people, and on the stage is a guru with a with a tiara of flowers all round his head and petals on the floor, and his gown and his and his um shoe, sockless feet, and he's blessing the audience. And everybody's eyes are beginning to roll. Right? They're getting high off this whole thing. And they're singing and they're chanting, and it's powerful, man. But because you know, and I've said it before, that my most common thought that I have in life until I left Tony Robbins, I had discovered was is this BS? Okay, everybody, close your ears, because I want to be real. Is this bullshit? And sometimes it's positive, sometimes it's negative. In this case, it was very positive. I was 18 years old, I didn't know what the heck was going on. And I'm looking at this guy and he's spritzing water on people. He's asking people to come up, and they spritz water on them. And I didn't know what was going on, and I was like, okay, I was feeling good, you know. And you know, you do deep breathing, you're gonna feel much better than you know, if you don't.

SPEAKER_04 11:08

So and something bothered me.

SPEAKER_03 11:14

I'm painting this picture because part of it, La Havdel, is he's gonna do it for me. This guy is gonna catapult me. I don't trust that. I never, ever, ever, La Havdel in Cates, ever felt that by the Rebbe. The Rebbe's whole mahoos is get your act together. I am gonna help you, I'm gonna be your coach, I'm gonna give you the koyach, I'm gonna lead you to the promised land like Moses. But you're gonna walk in the sand and the hot sand and burn your feet. And that to me is the ribbon. As much as I want to use him. Well, if I don't want to use him, because I don't really want to get anywhere, so that I don't I don't tap in. Um and yes, I know about the miracles and this. I mean, I know all that. I've had not many, but I've had one or two, but um in the sense of with the Rebbe and so forth.

SPEAKER_00 12:20

So it's actually funny you're asking, or you're saying this. It's beautiful. I don't know. I I mean I can't speak for other people. I don't know. I don't know if that is the typical experience because so many people describe it as the the inspiration they felt that the Rebbe was gonna lead us and was gonna take us out, and it was gonna be through him, and you were just uh a spectator, you and you were drawn in, and that's correct.

SPEAKER_03 12:51

That is exactly what the Rebbe said on Khayahnissa.

SPEAKER_00 12:54

I'm saying that was just the experience you're talking about authentic. This is how people felt. This was their experience of the feeling I understand that they that they had in a subtle way.

SPEAKER_03 13:04

I am going to tell you there's no difference to when I went to a Rolling Stones conference concert. I also was inspired by the m 30,000 people singing. But you're saying the difference is obviously I don't want to compare it, but yeah, I I I understand.

SPEAKER_00 13:20

So Wow.

unknown 13:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 13:23

This this I think my experience now that I reflect on it for a second, was actually I was being told that it's not like what I'm saying while I was in Yeshiva in 770.

SPEAKER_00 13:40

What do you mean?

A Guru In Seattle Versus Chabad

SPEAKER_03 13:42

When I went to Morristown, ironically, and for those people who are joining us, and maybe they went to Moristown, ironically, Rabbi Lipsker, he should live well and long and be strong. Rabbi Lipsker on one hand was saying it was a total chassra of the reva, but on the other hand, he put all the the um the goals and the journey on you. He was able to communicate those two together. When I got to 770, which I thought was going to be the apex of everything, I wasn't being taught how to dovin, how to misboyin. I wasn't being taught there's such a thing as godliness in your life. I wasn't being taught any of that, even though I was learning Chasilis. Uh let me let me ask you this question. Are you in your identity, do you you see yourself as a mystic? No. Okay. A person, you do you learn chasilis every day? I do. Okay. If you learn chasilis every day and you don't feel like you're a mystic, something is screwy.

SPEAKER_00 14:57

No doubt about that. Okay, that's my point. But it also just is depending on how you're defining what a mystic is.

SPEAKER_03 15:04

Oh, now we're gonna get into philosophy. No, no, no. Let me hear your definition.

SPEAKER_00 15:10

The reason I'm saying no is because also of actually the same fear um that I have of what you're describing, which is that if it's all up to you, which is what the reb said, obviously, but devoid of the Rebbe, and where is that balance? You can't be devoid of the reb. So I'm saying, where is that balance? Because the Rebbe like the people who call themselves mystics are anything but they learn Kabbalah and they think that they see Malachim and they see that they're we're talking about fakers. No, no, no. You're saying they they're very authentic, they absolutely believe that they're actually doing what they're because they're really reading their Kabbalah Swarum and they think that they're accomplishing, you know. Okay, so give me the definition of mystic. That's why I think it's important to qualify. So if you qualify. So if you're saying a person who feels connected to a shem and is using Hasidis as the vehicle of being misboyant in order to have that connection, then yes, I'm a mystic. But I don't think when a person hears, are you a mystic? that's what they're thinking of. So that's why I just think what are they thinking of? Making making miracles, thinking about meditating on the spheras and the Udkave Vubs. Can't you be meditating on the spheres? I'm not saying I'm not saying you can't, but I'm saying to have the experience of seeing Malachem and getting downloads and doing all of that.

SPEAKER_03 16:41

I don't know anybody who talks like that. There's plenty of things. I know there's a bunch of guys running around wanting to know about their astrological astrologers.

SPEAKER_00 16:47

So I'm saying those people are let's talk about us. But I'm saying those people are the ones who are being defined as mystics. So that's why I said no. You just said you asked me before.

SPEAKER_03 16:56

Now tell me your definition of yourself.

SPEAKER_00 17:08

That's a mystic.

SPEAKER_03 17:09

Yeah, that's I I I I I I I have to protest. We got a guy in Lakewood who goes to Yeshiva Godoila who doesn't know a word of Hasidis, also feels Ava Yuras Hashem.

SPEAKER_00 17:26

I said using well, I said before. What does mean using Hasidism? Using Hasidism is pointing on I know because what you were describing in Lakewood is the way that the Friday Rebbe describes in the in the I think it was the memoirs, whereas you think about a big ox standing over you and fear. I'm not disappointed.

SPEAKER_02 17:45

I don't want to be good for the voice of Lakewood. Apparently you are.

SPEAKER_00 17:50

No, but uh without Chasidis, the Rebbe says without Chasidis, I know what you cannot have you don't use Chasidis. Okay, so fix my language as you often do.

SPEAKER_03 18:04

My point is not so much whether you're sitting under your tulus in Shabbos morning. You know, sometimes I think to myself, am I and I do, I sit under my tulus in Shabbos morning and I think about Chasidis. Am I any different than when I was at that guru in Seattle?

SPEAKER_00 18:23

What conclusion do you come up with?

SPEAKER_03 18:26

So what I'm saying is the real mystic is when you walk out the door of your house and you do business and you deal with the world, and do you see the world in a mystical oifen? Not a belief, in a mystical do you feel higher than what your neighbor is seeing or not? That's mysticism. That you have the betachin, you have the sense of security, even when things are, you know, like uh um Yona in the in on the boat and the whale. Okay, so I guess I'm not a mystic again. Okay, so to me that's a mystic.

SPEAKER_00 19:10

Oh, it's that's hard, but yes, I I didn't say it was easy.

SPEAKER_03 19:13

I know. You know, one of the things I've been reflecting on of as of late is the opening line that you know so well on the front page of Tanya is so friggin' difficult. I'm gonna give you a short and a long way and a long and a short way. I think people don't want the long way. And that's why you have these.

SPEAKER_00 19:40

Shouldn't say they don't want. They don't want it's hard work, so they avoid doing it. They don't not want, they want to do it. They just lazy.

SPEAKER_03 19:50

We are electing for the short way. We're electing for the short way. That's why we run to all of these, how should we say, pseudo, as you're calling it, pseudo-mystical events.

SPEAKER_00 20:02

So And you said fun out fake.

SPEAKER_03 20:06

So um I'm being nice.

SPEAKER_00 20:09

Because they mean, you know, in the mean they they all may mean well, but some of it's Pasha dangerous, but whatever.

SPEAKER_03 20:16

Of course, when a guy does a void of Zara, you think that he thinks that I'm doing a vote of Zara? He thinks he's doing well. And he means well, and he's getting Kayach. Right?

SPEAKER_00 20:27

He has plenty of proofs. He may even have miracles.

SPEAKER_03 20:32

I was just gonna say Eagle dance. So um, so where are we? We're kind of going off the beaten path here.

SPEAKER_00 20:41

So I think this is actually exactly what Koach Nisan is all about. I understand. Yeah, so you're going so let's go back to it.

SPEAKER_03 20:48

Where's the Rebbe in it where he's still Rebbe and yet he's giving it over to you? That's I think they merge. I think that was the Rebbe's whole mahus. Is always been, it's up to you. I'll train you. Just like a trainer in a gym, Lahavdel. I'll train you, but you gotta lift the barbells. And in a lot of ways I find myself, but I look around, I think, uh, for other people as well, it's safe to say that we gave up. Giving up is saying it's up to the Rebbe. Abandoning Baderach Arucha Uktsara, a long and short way, is saying it's up to the Rebbe. And there is no difference, I think, from before Gimel Thomas and after Gimel Thomas Thomas when it comes to the objective and the Rebbe's role. We may not have got it at the time, and you weren't. But we may not have gotten it at the time, but from the Rebbe's point of view, he said it the first for Bragen. It's up to you. Don't look at me to slep you out.

SPEAKER_00 22:11

So then what does it mean with the gilly of Mashiach and the world changing? And is that just a different tekufa? Is that a different stage of like put that in with I'm not sure what you're asking? I'm asking Is it is it that is it that to a certain point?

SPEAKER_04 22:36

Is what to a certain point?

SPEAKER_00 22:38

When Mashiach is revealed, is then it up to Mashiach?

SPEAKER_03 22:44

It's done.

SPEAKER_00 22:45

No, but I'm saying is then Mashiach's avoida take over and it's it's Mashiach then?

SPEAKER_03 22:52

I don't I don't understand what you're thinking. The You think when Mashiach is full-blown revealed, nothing's happening.

SPEAKER_00 23:04

No, but I think that Mashiach is the one who's gonna heal everybody, and Mashiach is gonna one who's gonna stop all the wars, and Mashiach is gonna be the one to build the base in Mikdash with his bare hands, you know. With his bare hands? I'm saying yeah, he's bringing it down from Shemayam. Okay, Shemaya was doing it. Well, he's bringing it down, and he's we're putting in the windows, whatever it says. And the doors. What? It's one of the taiches, whatever.

SPEAKER_03 23:29

Okay, I never heard that. Okay. We'll put in the windows, but it'll go okay, go on. It's one of the Was that out of bringing you heard that? I don't remember. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 23:38

Sounds like I I took it from one of my uh the back recess of it, recesses of my head. So I'm saying then it's then it's up to Mashiach?

SPEAKER_04 23:49

No. No different.

Mysticism Without Escapism

SPEAKER_03 23:54

Things get more powerful, things get more elevated, but same thing. Why not? The Melech's the Melech, he's not gonna be he can't go into his room and sit down at his table and and schmooz with him, like you know, he's your uncle, because he's a melech. But why are you assuming that it's an abandonment of your identity of who you are? It's so interesting to me that we always go to that. I understand it, but it's so interesting.

SPEAKER_04 24:30

Um, Mashiach and Rebbe is not your kosher addiction.

SPEAKER_00 24:40

What does that mean?

SPEAKER_03 24:43

Your addiction takes you out of your pain, your fear, your sense of inadequacy, all the different psychological reasons why people become addicted. So you know, I've been noticing we've spoken about it before, and I know that you have this in your how should we say in your environment. A lot of people come to Yiddishkeit expecting themselves to be different when they go into it. Or certainly come out of it or through it. And that's not true. And they get disappointed and then they buck the system. So they're looking for that guru. And that's not Chabad, and that's not the Rebbe that we we are being told is Rebbe.

SPEAKER_00 25:40

Is that why so many people also go to breast love and what do you mean so many?

SPEAKER_03 25:46

And I don't think they're making a choice. That is the attraction of breast love. That's correct. Everything is the tzaddik. Believe in the tzaddik, and everything is gonna be copacetic. That is a prim a primary, and you know what, not only a primary principle, but they'll tell you it works.

SPEAKER_04 26:08

So if it works, why not go for it, man?

SPEAKER_03 26:13

Um answer. What?

SPEAKER_00 26:15

Why is it work then?

SPEAKER_03 26:18

Well one second, one second. You is your question to say, well, if if that's not the Derek of Chabad, then it must mean that the Rebbe doesn't do all that stuff.

SPEAKER_04 26:30

No The Rebbe does do all that stuff meaning to breast love and so forth. But that's not the evoda according to Chabad.

SPEAKER_03 26:44

And it's very hard to think that you have the koyach to do it because we feel so basically inadequate for all the reasons that each one of us feels. And that's the koyach that the Rebbe gives you. Not to succumb to that feeling. But he's not gonna do the work. So, you know, uh let me give you an example that came up for me for I'm thinking that came up for me um on the first couple of days of Pesach. Tell me what you think about this, Zahari. Shabbos Gadl. Right? What's the reason why it's called the big Shabbos? The Shabbos before they left Egypt. Why is it called Shabbas Gadl?

SPEAKER_00 27:33

They killed each other, and the Mitzrim killed each other.

SPEAKER_03 27:35

The mitzim killed each other. Why did they kill? Well, that's one way of saying it. They had a civil war. Why did they kill each other?

SPEAKER_00 27:43

The firstborns didn't want to die. Explain to someone who doesn't know what the firstborns didn't want to die, so they went up to Paro and said No, you're missing the uh a step. They believed in Moshe that he that the Maka was gonna be.

SPEAKER_03 27:59

Well, that's for sure, but but no, you're missing a step. They asked the Jews, why are you bringing a lamb into your bedroom? And what was the answer?

SPEAKER_00 28:10

Preparing for uh the last maca.

SPEAKER_03 28:12

Which is the maca's pocharis. Right. So the firstborn went after nine other macays. So the firstborn goes to the pyro and says, Let him out, we don't want to die. Okay, and they have a civil war. So it's called the Reb explains Chasidis. Hapi Khassidis is the idea that Teva, the nature of the firstborn of the power structure itself began to crumble amongst themselves, right? Okay. So I had on Shabbos, that Shabbos the Gadol, a strange thought.

SPEAKER_04 28:46

That's not the first step. The first step was they asked the Jews, what are you doing? And the Jews answered. That was the turning point. The Jews answered.

SPEAKER_03 29:09

How much do we hide? How much do I hide in my beautiful, like I said before, like at the guru's feet, I put the talus over my head, dream little dremelas, whatever I think I'm doing, and I'm not dissing it completely. And but I want to go out onto the world, I'm not that expression of, so to speak, the Jew telling the Egyptian, this is what's happening. Okay. So it's not even the Makkah that did it, it was the Jews said to them that there's a Makkah gonna happen. So, you know, it's just a thought. It's a I mean it's I don't know if it's correct.

SPEAKER_00 30:03

Whatever, Oeska Halton, but No, the Jew, the Jew being uh an aid is like the Yeah, yeah. I mean, there's a lot of proofs you can bring. I'm saying no, that that is the the Iker avoida of the Jew, is to be the witness, testify to Hashem's greatness, glory, will, everything in the world. Yeah. So there's there's plenty of good rias to uh support. It's a beautiful thought, Ruben.

SPEAKER_03 30:33

So my point is, are we let's go back to our original question. Do we have no conflict now that it's only up to us and not to the up to the Rebbe after Gimel Thamas? Or are we still stuck in what the Rebbe says? You only sing Admasai because I told you to. And now the real question, we all know the answer. So now the real question is, you know what, I'll tell you a funny story that happened. An hour before Marav on the last night of Pesach, meaning be going from Shri Show Pesach into Achran Show Pesach, guy comes up to me and says, you know, all of the Labavachars are going to come to our shoul. Maybe we should all leave now and go to their shoul. This is like only like less than a quarter of a mile between the two. And then we had this conversation, and he came to the accusation that the only reason why they're going to our shool, because we don't really want them, he says, we don't really need them, is they want to be Yoitzi Zion. Right?

SPEAKER_00 31:50

Went to a show like that too, actually.

SPEAKER_03 31:53

So you have 500 people pile in behind one guy who gives, you know, another, whatever. The irony, though, was no one came. Every year, tuck of 50 people pile in because they don't want to walk far, but for some reason no one came. So I said to the guy, you see, you you kept them from coming because they knew that you didn't want them.

SPEAKER_04 32:16

Are are now is it is it better not to go on Toluca to be Yoitzizein? Or is it better to go and be Yoitzi sign?

SPEAKER_03 32:38

And I want to suggest to you that going to Antolucha to be Yitzhizein is saying everything's up to the reb.

SPEAKER_00 32:50

It's a bit of a stretch.

SPEAKER_03 32:52

Why?

SPEAKER_00 32:54

You could still have an opinion of Kabbalah's soul that you're doing it because it's the right thing to do, even though you don't feel like I don't know if we should, I don't know if I would take it so far. I don't know. I do.

SPEAKER_03 33:05

Okay. For myself.

SPEAKER_00 33:06

That's for yourself. I don't know if I'd recommend that to anybody.

SPEAKER_03 33:09

Okay. What about to yourself?

SPEAKER_00 33:12

To each on his own level of what they're fine.

SPEAKER_03 33:16

Whatever level you're on, you can apply this formula. Is it I'm relying on the Rebbe just like the woman who came on dollars after Kaya Knisson and said, It's up to you, Rebbe, it's up to you, you can't abandon us. Or you're saying that it's up to me. Every will have everybody on his own level. And the truth of the matter is, if you don't answer this question, and you know what the answer really should be, is you're not.

SPEAKER_04 33:51

You're giving up.

SPEAKER_00 33:55

You're giving up.

SPEAKER_03 33:56

You're giving up choice, you're giving up objective, you're giving up the the simcha of doing it, you're giving up id as you're not wrong power, but the alternative of then not doing it, uh I don't see it as a benefit because then you're being authentic to the fact that you're not connecting.

SPEAKER_00 34:15

That's not the only choice. Well, you're saying either go on to Luca or you don't.

SPEAKER_03 34:20

No. Get your act together and then go on to Luka.

SPEAKER_00 34:23

That I hear.

SPEAKER_03 34:25

There's a And there's not a time frame here. It could take in five seconds, but I'm saying the attitude. We don't even give a damn if we go there just out of rote.

SPEAKER_00 34:34

I got that.

SPEAKER_03 34:35

That's already expected, certainly in our community. Go through the motions, and you are a card-carrying member of Lubavitch. I I have to say something radical. Uh-oh. That's not what I gave up that guru for. I was having fun with that guru.

SPEAKER_00 34:59

You got the water spritz on, yeah. Yeah.

Mashiach Is Not An Addiction

SPEAKER_03 35:01

No, I didn't have the water spritz on you. Yeah, I something smelled bad. What I'm saying is to me, and I don't even know why, I didn't have a Jewish education. All I'm saying to you is that we we Yes, there's a risk in asking the question, do I mean it? Because if you come to the conclusion you don't mean it, you can just say bye-bye. But we have said bye-bye. Every time we say bye-bye in our little moments, we're saying it's up to the Rebbe. Not up to us. You know, someone came to me in shul. This has freaked me out, actually. He came to me in shul, and sh maybe it was the night of a Takah Shri Shal Pesach. Of um Achron Shal Pesach. Not a Lababaj guy. And he said he had told me a few days before that he has spoken to a lot of so-called leaders in the community, and they think he's crazy, but he wants to he wants to uh pass is what he said to them to me and wants my opinion. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 36:25

Asking the real authority You're lucky there's no knife on the table.

SPEAKER_03 36:31

Okay. So he says to me, I'm gonna be a bit kitszer, but he basically says to me What does God want? Look at what we've been doing. Look at what we've been through, look at what what we've been trying to do. Why is it that Mashiach hasn't come yet? And I don't understand it. Why we don't scream God, what do you want already? This is the kiss is what he said to me. I go over to the shelf, I take out a Dvar Machus, Koyach Nissan, and I read to him what the Rebbe said. I said, You're in good company. He had such a delight, right? He went to all these different rabbis that he knows in Muncy and blah blah blah, and they all looked at him. You can't talk like that. You're Mashugana, this and that. And I read him out of Sikha for the Rebbe. Admasai.

SPEAKER_00 37:38

Ad Masai.

SPEAKER_03 37:39

And it didn't come because the Rebbe told him, because he didn't know about it.

SPEAKER_00 37:44

I I think I know the answer now based off of what we're discussing. What's the question? No, no, no. I'm gonna tell you. I was approached a little while back by someone younger who was venting a complaint to me that they hear all these stories of miracles from the Rebbe, and he's written to the Rebbe and has gone to the Oh dozens of times a bit. He doesn't have any minutes. He doesn't have anything.

SPEAKER_03 38:16

So, what did you answer him?

SPEAKER_00 38:17

I'll tell you my answer in a minute, but what did you uh what what would you say?

SPEAKER_03 38:22

I would have to know how he says it, but go what did you tell him?

SPEAKER_00 38:26

The way I just said it is the way he said it.

SPEAKER_03 38:28

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 38:33

He feels extremely frustrated that this issue and this issue that he has, that he feels like I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 38:40

What would you answer?

SPEAKER_00 38:41

I'm I will tell you what I answered. I won't know what your answer is.

SPEAKER_03 38:44

I don't know, I don't have an answer. Tell me.

SPEAKER_00 38:47

Well, I I think it may have ch it would it would change a bit based off of what we're saying now. At that point, I told him I was like, the Rebbe's not a genie.

SPEAKER_03 38:54

Right.

SPEAKER_00 38:55

It's like stop expecting, you know, yeah, but he is for everybody else.

SPEAKER_03 38:58

That's what this guy was.

SPEAKER_00 39:00

Well, yeah, but that I was just like, you're hearing you're hearing stories that are are true and amazing and unique, and but the the idea of going to the Rebbe is that it it's not it doesn't need to be in the way that you expect it to be. That's not what a miracle is. He's not a genius, not granting you a wish, and you have to continue to dab it, and you also have to work. I told him, you know, you have to put in effort and you have to do that.

SPEAKER_03 39:23

What would you answer?

SPEAKER_00 39:24

Now I think I would answer even a little more like you you could request a miracle, but you have to see how the miracle could come through you, through your through your effort, through you, your the the Rebbe could give you the tools, the Rebbe could give you uh, you know, chizuch and strength and and the kayak and whatever is needed in order to oh you're bringing out a very interesting point because I could argue and say to you, if or what not argue and say to you, what it seems to me that's an implication.

SPEAKER_03 39:59

What you're saying is is that if a miracle comes through me, it's not a miracle. So the irony is that's again, everything's up to the rev.

SPEAKER_01 40:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:11

And um, you know, I don't know who this guy is, but um yeah. I guess you have to give him the recording of our street remembering. But it's listen, it's not easy.

SPEAKER_00 40:32

It's not, it's really not easy, and and honestly, it's it's it's more than that easy. It's almost to the I I don't know how to say this in a different way, but don't take it so literally. It's almost angering.

SPEAKER_03 40:48

But you know what's really ironic? It's exactly what we're looking for.

SPEAKER_00 40:56

What do you mean?

Witnessing Hashem With Action

SPEAKER_03 40:56

You're saying because that's we want to be able to stand up. You know, I saw I saw a uh somebody, some one of these whatever on WhatsApp sent me a very disturbing picture to me. Apparently it's not so new. Picture, I think it is though, based on picture of six IDF soldiers with masks, black masks, holding rifles, three on each side, and in the middle is this like eighty-five-year-old, you know, the guy who worked in the in the in the in the uh in the garment district all his life, an 85-year-old guy wearing a blue and white talus that looks like he comes from a conservative shoal, right? Wearing with paratvillin, and it says on the caption, we are not helpless anymore. In other words, the di the implication is you're dovening with your Twilin and your Talus keeping tradition. We will protect you to keep you going, but we're the power. Right? And there's a dichotomy between the two. How do you argue with that? That is the message, by the way.

SPEAKER_00 42:22

That's the message because it's missing this is what I was kind of saying before, because it's missing the Rebbe. It's still missing Hashem, it's still missing the actual koyak of where strength and power and everything really come from. Okay, but this is this is the deep.

SPEAKER_03 42:38

Where it really comes from, but these six guys are out there on the field right now as we speak, yeah, getting rid of all the bad guys. Again, if and if they put it. How do you merge the two? How do you feel? That's what I'm saying. Rebbe is is gives the koih to the chassid for him to be the soldier, but he has to be the soldier.

SPEAKER_00 43:00

It's it's very challenging. Yeah, it's very, very challenging. I I mean again, in that picture, I'm assuming it's also not even just about I mean he's a feeble-looking idiot. And and we're also we're also extracting it to to be about the Rebbe. It's about Hashem.

SPEAKER_03 43:18

That picture's not about the Rebbe.

SPEAKER_00 43:19

No, but I'm saying it's about Hashem that you're taking Hashem. So could we ask the same question about Hashem as you asked about so is and the Rebbe is just is the is the answer the same that it's up to it's up to us, not up to Hashim?

SPEAKER_03 43:37

The Rebbe says the Rebbe says, how can we say after Svira a Max uh how do we say after we count? Rakamine Rachim, how's it going?

SPEAKER_00 43:51

You can pause it right now so we don't sound like total dumbasses. We are dumb asses. Okay, but we don't know that.

SPEAKER_03 43:57

I don't know who's dumb, or the people listening or the people Why, says the Rebbe, do we say that on this mitzvah of Spiris Oimer and not by any other mm thing that we do? Yeah. So he says, because the whole Mahus of Svirus Oimer is Lamatalamaila. You have to bring the base of Mikdash. You have to tell the Egyptian God's gonna do what he's gonna do. And you have to go out with a gun if you have to and protect your neighbors in the borders of Israel. But you're going with the Kayakh of the Abish.

SPEAKER_00 44:40

This is the it's it's a big So is it so you're saying it's the exact same answer?

SPEAKER_03 44:44

Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_00 44:48

If you're just leaving it up to Hashem, if you're just saying Hashem is gonna take care of it, what does it mean leaving it up to Hashem?

SPEAKER_03 44:56

You have the famous story with the Al T Rebbe. He was on the boat. They didn't want to stop it. So he got them a boat to stop. And then he didn't want to say Ben Shlulev and uh Ben Shulin.

SPEAKER_00 45:11

And he asked again. What why? Because he wanted Al Dereh Tava.

SPEAKER_03 45:16

He wanted what does that mean he wanted it, Alp Derechtava? He wanted it to be natural. That the captain would do it not because that he would be able to say his blessing for the new moon for the new month without it being okay. And where is it coming from? It's much more fun if it comes from above. It frees you of your feeling of inadequacy when miracles happening. And this is so now we still have inside of us the the conflict.

SPEAKER_04 46:00

Rebbe is it up to you?

SPEAKER_03 46:02

Or is it up to me? I think we have to for elect that it's up to us. With the Koya Drabb.