Street Farbrengen Episode 125 - Who is Setting My Goal?

If Chassidus teaches that every person possesses a core self, why is it often so difficult to feel it?

We explore the difference between intellect and intuition, analysis and identity, and why so many of us spend our lives trying to think our way toward ourselves.

The conversation moves from Steve Jobs and intuition, to the Baal Teshuvah experience, to cholent, cheesecake, and the strange moment when a person becomes fed up with living in a way that no longer feels true.

Are we trying to discover ourselves through analysis when the self can only be found through presence?

And if Geulah is a state of alignment with who we truly are, can a person live with Geulah if they do not yet feel a genuine sense of self?

Can we experience redemption while remaining disconnected from our own inner reality?

A raw, unscripted conversation about identity, intuition, choice, self-awareness, and the difference between who we think we are and who we actually are.

Perhaps the most important question of all:

Who is setting my goal?

Transcript

Why The Core Feels Elusive

SPEAKER_01 0:00

I was reflecting on what we were talking about last time about making a goal coming from your core. But what if you don't feel your core, Ruben? How do you then do that?

SPEAKER_04 0:31

That's an excellent, excellent question, and that's like probably the core of a voida. And I was thinking about the same question myself because it's really elusive. And it's kind of crazy that it's elusive.

SPEAKER_00 0:48

Yeah, it's you.

SPEAKER_04 0:50

It's literally just you. But you know, we were learning even ourselves this week the uh it's not quite what we had said, but the higher you go on any level, the more abstract it gets. Abstract means the less and less definition, right? So the h h deeper you go into the self, that's the same thing that happens. If you're talking about soul and core. So on one hand, we were learning about how that you become more flexible because you're less defined. Yeah. But on the other hand, it leads to more frustration because you're less defined. Right? So now you're struggling as to how do I define and how do I point my, so to speak, my arrow at this target called core. That's kind of what we do, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:53

Well, you guess which part of you is asking that? Not your core. Right. Your definition. Yeah. And your definition self is gonna say, uh-uh. It's not gonna find it. Because it's even if you found it, it wouldn't know you found it, number one. Number two is even if you know that you found it, you'd reject it. Because it wants definition. Yes. Right? And Sekel wants definition. By by definition, Sekel is a definer. Yeah. Right? And one of the oddities of Jewish life is you have all these men spending all the, particularly men, spending all this time learning, which is using your sechel, and yet we're being told to have a munna and feel you're in a shamma and be a hartzuki gid, or ultimately Chasid says be a pushli gid, even though you have a lot of sechel. And how do you put the two together? And I don't even know how many people are even thinking that it's something to put two together, but that's you know, we at least the two of us have some cognition

Intuition Versus Intellect In Life

SPEAKER_04 3:02

over it. But I'm just asking the people who are joining us, do you really think like that? You know, I was listening to uh the strange thing in the car on my five-hour drive before this uh bringing tonight. And I was listening to the biography of Stephen Jobs, and I always was quite fascinated by the guy, the what I knew, but then after listening to the book, um my god, that guy was not um how should we say a simple person. And his but one of his big things was, and he clashed with so many people is that he was into intuition. He didn't like intellectual approaches to products, to you know, I guess numbers and data about consumers and so on and so forth. He he th he thrived on intuition. So I'm gonna ask you. Well, I was thinking about it. Is uh does a it does does a Hasid go to the Rebbe because he's a Hachum? Does does it so what does he go to the Rebbe for connect to something that's above Sikhul?

SPEAKER_01 4:27

Or to find that within himself and he sees the Rebbe as the I'm not calling it to see what's beyond Sikol.

SPEAKER_04 4:35

I mean there were so many it it's let's talk about today, not in the days of past.

SPEAKER_01 4:43

Why not? Because I wanna I wanna tell you what I've always noticed that always perplexed me.

SPEAKER_04 4:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:52

And you know I'm very into reading stories. Stories of Hasidim of time. And it's always incredible to me when you when you read about how these Tamil Khachamin who went into self-imposed gallists or were in different places and they had all of the SACL available to them. They were huge Tamil Khachamin and Nigel and Mister, and yet they were still drawn to something that they that they were missing to go to the Bal Shemto and ultimately Yes, it is a wonder.

SPEAKER_04 5:34

If you're looking for everything to be packaged in your SEHO And then you don't understand why unless you say, Oh, they went to the Balshemtov to get more SEHO. No, you're not. Of course not. So

Goals From Identity Not Self-Upgrade

SPEAKER_04 5:50

okay. So So what what are we what are we talking about now is that you can't so it's a very difficult what's the difference of what we brought up last time we met and we were in the middle of I'm making a goal in order to become something, versus because of who I am, I'm making a goal. So uh the the obvious difference is one's coming from who you already are, obviously, that's push it. We're saying, but what if you don't know who you are? What if you don't feel a sense of non-sachel me? Let's call it that. Yeah, where I don't step out. So what does it mean, what does it mean sachel me? Let's just go over it again. We can we're coining this phrase, coining this phrase. Coining? Is that what it is? Non-sechel me and sachel me. Sahel me means I am constantly at the moment when I'm being a sachel me analyzing, I'm stepping out as two people. There's me looking at me in the mirror, let's say.

SPEAKER_05 7:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 7:07

As opposed to I feel who I am. I mean, I don't even have to think I feel who I am. I am who I am, therefore I have a goal. You know, and it occurs to me that that if you read the real, real incredible, successful people in business, like who are innovators, you know, once in a decade, come along, like like a Steve Jobs or even Trump, um they will tell you they were compelled to do what they did because that's who they are. Yeah. Right. Okay. So we're saying here, let's let's get cut to the to the chase. Please. We're saying here, a week after Shwoas, when it says Nas of Anishma is because of the Jews felt they were one with God, which they are, and they're Pirchanishmasam, they were one with God. Their souls fled because they what does it mean their souls fled? One Pshat is they lost identity of self separate from God. Right? And here we can't even figure out who we are as two schmucks sitting in front of two microphones, right? Well, we can analyze who we are, that's sachel me.

SPEAKER_01 8:32

Yeah, I mean, when you're analyzing when you want to take on a goal, that seems to be very sechal dick. So I'm saying that was that was really where the question means.

SPEAKER_04 8:41

That's when it means Lamatamina does. Yeah. You are connected to an idea that makes sense to you. There if you say, I should do this. So let's make a simple example. My Seychel, I read a book and I read the Chat GPT and blah blah blah blah, and it's really good that I should lose 15 pounds. So therefore, I'm gonna go to the gym. Okay.

The Cholent Test For Real Change

SPEAKER_04 9:06

Is that my identity?

SPEAKER_02 9:08

No.

SPEAKER_04 9:08

Is that my das? No, no, absolutely not. It's L'Matamina Sechel.

SPEAKER_00 9:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 9:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 9:17

Sure.

SPEAKER_04 9:19

If I'm sit, like a lot of people can relate to this, it's an hour after your home chulent on Shabbos. I say your home chulent because most likely you already had your friggin' chulent at shul with Kugel, with Le Chayim, with cake, with all the crap, and you shovel down another meal because after all, it's Shabbos. Okay, and you f and an hour later, besides the fact that no one can can actually sit next to you for various reasons, which we don't have to uh uh say uh verbally, is you feel bloated and you feel disgusted, and you say to yourself, I don't want to feel this way. Is that Lamatamina Seychel?

SPEAKER_05 10:13

No.

SPEAKER_04 10:13

No. So on some level that your body level is telling you who you are. Right? Okay, at least on the body, fine call it soul-body connection. Okay, now so at least we know sometimes we have the the Friday Korea goes into Lakuta de Burian the difference between a hergish goofni and a and a hergish begoof. I don't remember the exact wording, but that's the difference. He says a hergish goofni and a hergish shabegoof.

SPEAKER_05 10:48

So I'm not sure which one this one is, but in any case, so we do experience sometimes core, at least on the physical level. Right?

SPEAKER_01 11:05

Okay, fine.

SPEAKER_04 11:07

But fine.

SPEAKER_01 11:08

I mean, in your example, I I'm just using that example as well.

SPEAKER_04 11:11

No, I'm giving that example.

SPEAKER_01 11:13

Is that your core?

SPEAKER_04 11:14

I said on the physical level, that's a core example of I'm going to now not eat like a pig because not because it makes me feel uncomfortable, because I don't want to feel this way.

SPEAKER_01 11:29

Okay. It's not safe, I got I got it. Fine, fine. It's not sachel dick, I get it. Yeah, it's called a hairgish. I got it, yeah. Okay. I've had a hair gish before.

SPEAKER_04 11:43

Thank God. Okay, so I'm just exploring here, and this is what a Febran is. And for the people who are friends enough to join us, we don't script this. Probably it sounds obvious, but that's besides the point. Um so you can recall that feeling of being bloated on Chavez, or maybe want to make it easier for you to remember that third piece of cheesecake on Schwuz. Keeping it fresh, you really and you decide viscerally that you don't want to live that way. It's not the what you want. Yeah. Okay, so therefore you're gonna stop eating three pieces of cheesecake. And that's not lamatami nseich. You didn't go through calorie counting and you know, cholesterol question, you know.

SPEAKER_01 12:39

There was a fundamental core I'm fed up. I'm done. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 12:44

No, this is not for me.

SPEAKER_01 12:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:46

Okay. Can you not have that baruchness?

SPEAKER_01 12:50

Absolutely, you can.

SPEAKER_04 12:51

Give me an example.

SPEAKER_01 12:53

I've had it many times. I have to think about it, but I know what you're talking about. The example that just the easy example to point to is when you're becoming Balchuva. When you say I, please.

SPEAKER_04 13:09

Well, I'm just you stop. You went so I'm trying to remember when I remember that and now you go when you I was I was gonna get to the personal example, but I don't care about the you example. When there's a hundred thousand people listening to us, they have a lot of you's there.

SPEAKER_01 13:23

When when I was living my life as I was for however many years previously, and there came a point when I couldn't not keep Shabbos anymore. There it was it was my core that was just done with the previous life that I had led.

SPEAKER_04 13:48

So so so if you're gonna continue the theme, you're gonna say, I said I can't do Malacha on Shabbos. Yeah, that's what happened. Okay. So it sounds that core is when you touch on what you really want.

Nefesh Habehamis And Honest Self-Recognition

unknown 14:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 14:12

Now, the problem is, and it explains this in Tanya and other elaborations on Tanya, that the Nevish Bahamas, the animal soul, knows exactly what it wants. That's right. Right? So the behama sees something tasty to go eat, let's say a block of sugar in the middle of the field, it's gonna lick the sugar or the salt. I think they like salt better than sugar. They're gonna lick it. They're not gonna think about it, they're just gonna run like a behema. Okay. Now we do the same thing. If you ever go, you know, it's Arab Shabbos, so all you have to do is go to shool on Shabbos in a couple of days and remember this conversation and watch how everybody dives into the food like a bunch of behamas. And they're not thinking, oh, this food is so good. It tastes good, and they go through this whole long rigmer all. No, they run like a Bahama, right? Yeah, because the Nevish Bahamas is very, for itself, very authentic. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 15:10

Well, no, you're you're laughing, but there is a core of the Nefeshah Bahamas, the same way there's a core of everything else.

SPEAKER_04 15:17

So the core no, it's not an intellectual, there's a core of this and there's a core of that. The Nefesha Bahamas lives as a core. A behama, what does it say in many places? Uh Yitush Kadmecha, the snail came before you, right? And in the behemoth, the altar episode says a behama cannot go against the way it's created. That's pretty core. The only problem is we think that for us to get to core is exclusively through sechum. There's something we're doing wrong. Because it's not Sechum. You know, a guy, I had a conversation. I have to uh you have to tell me what you think about this. Because maybe I need to do chuva and die on the altar of guilt. Tough interesting visual go out.

SPEAKER_00 16:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 16:15

So I'm talking to this guy I never met. He called me up through somebody else's um reference. And he told me he loves music. I said, so do I. And we started to talk, and it turns out that he loves, you know, the typical modern Jewish music. We'll say it just to be comfortable, you know, I'm not whatever, you know, all the people. Yep. And I said, you know, I can sing a niggin while I'm dovening, but I can't listen to music in the car. I can't listen to Jewish music. It just doesn't turn me on. I'm sorry. He says, What do you listen to? Now, this is not a Lombaver guy. So he's, I said, Um, I listen to non-Jewish music, and I hear a gasp on the other end of the phone, and he tells me about how he so much wants to like listen to he he agrees with me, but he was told about this and about that, and then the shamba.

SPEAKER_01 17:22

No, no, don't tell me you convinced him to the dark side review.

SPEAKER_04 17:25

No, so I said to no, but what I did say to him, you just finished telling me that you haven't gone to shool in three years. He's a shumashab's guy. You haven't gone to shool in so many years, but you're keeping to not listening to Goisha music. I find that very fascinating.

SPEAKER_01 17:49

That's very interesting, right? Okay, yes. I mean, I'm sure I could think of equivalents in my own life, but yeah. Okay, whatever.

SPEAKER_04 17:55

No, I'm not judging the guy. I'm judging his judgment, but I'm not judging the guy. Yeah. Okay. So I'm I'm thinking to myself, so you asked me, like, I've never heard a rabbi. I said, listen, first of all, don't take whatever I say as being rabbinic. But he says, I never heard anyone say, you know, uh, you you listen to uh I said, my favorite, you know, right now my favorite singer is Leonard Cohn, so at least he's Jewish, you know. So bottom line is what am I trying to say is that what am I trying to say? Um I kind of lost my train of thought.

SPEAKER_01 18:30

The the core aspect of his is his nefesha Bahamas is what is what?

SPEAKER_04 18:36

You were it seems like you were trying to awaken within him No, I'm not trying to awaken within him his Nefesha Bahamas. He has a big enough man, Nefesh Bahamas without me. But it's the So let's say like this. It's amazing that he doesn't listen to Goishi music. But does he accept that he wants to? Or does he does he shut himself down because he wants to?

SPEAKER_01 19:06

Let's say he doesn't. Let's say he doesn't shut himself down. I really want to listen to non-Jewish music, but I'm holding at a madraga where I would really like to only Good. So that's great, but that's not what I'm asking. So what?

SPEAKER_04 19:18

I'm asking is what if he's holding by? I you're not even hearing me clearly. I'm not asking whether he should or should not.

SPEAKER_01 19:26

I'm not saying that at all.

SPEAKER_04 19:28

I'm saying that you're you're distinguishing the fact that his desire is being No, you got it wrong. I'm not asking about what his desire is. I'm asking about his recognition.

SPEAKER_01 19:41

He could realize what do you mean? He could recognize that he has the desire for non-Jewish music and not do it.

SPEAKER_04 19:46

He obviously has the desire for it, and he obviously knows he's not doing it. So what do you mean, recognition? Recognition that this is who I am, and that's fine. Okay. Do you think that you have that when you do your little applications of, as you would call it in Hasidic terms, the Skofia and Kabbalah soul?

SPEAKER_01 20:09

Or do you consider yourself ever since we started for bringing in the past few years? No, I really have become a lot more cognizant of it.

SPEAKER_04 20:17

I have so what's the pshat? The pshat is you're recognizing honestly where you're holding. Yes, yes, and you're not dissing it. I got I got that. Okay. Well, no, I'm just saying it to bring it out. And you're not dissing it. You're not following through on it, but you're not dissing it.

SPEAKER_05 20:36

Okay. Okay. Now, if you do that with that consciousness constantly, because we're constantly dealing with Nefesha Bahamas, I'm gonna suggest to you you're eventually going to feel your core.

SPEAKER_04 21:01

That that's what your core is. But when you pretend that you're not supposed to be that way in your Nefesha Bahamas, you're not gonna feel your core. I'm not talking about follow-through.

SPEAKER_01 21:14

I I hear you. I'm thinking about it. What comes

Shame, Guilt, And The Blocked Core

SPEAKER_01 21:19

up actually is an interesting discussion I actually had over Shabuis with uh with Thomas Hokam.

SPEAKER_04 21:25

Well, that kicks me out of the comment.

SPEAKER_01 21:30

It's actually uh a question that you've asked before, I don't remember, here or just personally, that you actually even wanted to base a video off of, which is when you identify yourself, are you uh Nefesh Elohis that has a body, or are you the completion of the person Nefesh alokis body in Nishama and uh Nefesha Bahamas? Altogether. Like, what is the what is the self-identity?

SPEAKER_04 22:04

Are you asking a real question? What is yourself? Are you asking me a theoretical question? I'm not asking a theoretical question.

SPEAKER_01 22:11

No, because based off of what you're saying right now, is that when you identify the core of your Nefesha Bahamas and recognize who that is and what he wants, then you're gonna eventually It's not he. I then I am then going to feel my core and have a have a experience in in Ruchnius or in Elecusa as well. That is that what you were essentially saying?

SPEAKER_04 22:36

Yes, but let me explain it in more simple terms.

SPEAKER_01 22:39

Please, because I'm still struggling with this.

SPEAKER_04 22:42

Because you're being very intellectual. I'm saying to you, let's get it really clear. Please. Generally speaking, in Hasidic terms, are you your Nefesh Alakis or your Nefesha Bahamas? Nefesh alakis. Oh, really? I'm talking about while you're walking around this planet doing what you're doing.

SPEAKER_01 23:04

No, you're you're consciously being a Nefesha Bahamas. You're Nefesha Sichlist. You're Nefesha that's ultimately the one that's making the decision. This is Nefesha Bahamas.

SPEAKER_04 23:16

It drives me nuts when you're so intellectual like this. I'm just trying to understand what you're saying. Because you're not listening. Because you're trying to understand what I'm saying after I you heard what I said, but let me let me say it this way. I forget where I saw this. Hopefully I'll remember it. I think it's it's I saw it from the in Arebis Mimer. A tzadik who has alakus in his comes in his life, even he feels it's a kiddish. In other words, he lives in a world where Elakus is a kiddish. Maybe it's not an ultimate kiddish for him, but he realizes him bringing in Elakus into the world is a kiddish. Okay. So what I'm saying to you is, how much more so us? Get honest. For you to have a godly experience, which probably you haven't had in a long time, and everyone listening, unless they're taking supposedly ayahuasca and all the other things they take, and say, oh, now I had a godly experience, they didn't look God in the eye and they didn't feel bowing on their knees and dropping to the ground because they had a face-to-face with God, they are their nephew Bahamas.

SPEAKER_01 24:32

Okay, yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_04 24:34

Okay, but if you're a serious cause in etc. etc., and you say, no, this is not the way I should be. And I know all this we'll skip all the specifics of the theology, right? Do you say to yourself, I'm not supposed to be that guy walking around thinking that everything is the way the Nevish Bahamas thinks? This is a this is a sickness, it's an anomaly, it's um it's sad. I feel somewhat within myself guilty and shameful that I have this Nefesha Bahamas. And I'm suggesting to you that's the way we are taking in the information. That's Muslim. Okay. And I'm not even saying per se it's wrong, but where it's wrong is, is that where this is your base, at least that you would agree, that for me to start operating from a higher level is a khidish. Yeah. Okay. So your base, if you're gonna say to me, I don't accept that this is who my base is, how are you ever gonna find your core from what you haven't found yet?

SPEAKER_05 25:57

It's like everything, what is it?

SPEAKER_04 25:59

It's like if you do what does Khiziz say? If you don't know Mamala Kolomim, you're never gonna get to any kind of touching of soive kolomim. Yeah, but they're so different. Without going into the difference, doesn't matter. Because through Mamala you realize there is a Sayv. Until then, you don't know high kak about Sayvive. You don't know it exists, you don't care if it exists, it has nothing to do with your life. Yeah. Like a lot of people, especially younger people, say to me all the time, now I'm old, I can say the younger people. I don't understand why we have to learn about concealers. I don't understand about I get it. I don't understand why we have to learn about the different levels of chachma. I get it why they ask that. But it's so discombobulated from who they are and what they should be being taught. So you have a guy, like I mentioned in the beginning, like a Steve Jobs, who's uh not a very nice guy, it turns out. And he is wondering intuition and going beyond Sekel and knowing what his core is and blah blah blah. And we're sitting here asking, why should I know about Lamila Mina Sechel in myself? Like Kocha Chachma and the essence of Chachma and where does it go from and attic and this and that? You shouldn't know that. This is nuts. And you know what the reason is? I think we said it last time we met. I'm not sure where we said it. We don't learn chosilis with ourselves in mind. We learn chasilis as I like to give the example, like a Columbia University professor learning about pygmies in Africa.

SPEAKER_01 27:41

Okay, okay, but I I I hear that. But putting that

Choice Point Versus Strategy Thinking

SPEAKER_01 27:45

aside for a second, so And I don't want to live that way.

SPEAKER_04 27:48

I I hear you loud and all this way to live like a Colombian professor.

SPEAKER_01 27:53

All this way from pre-from, or all this way from uh Lamila Nishama down here. Pre-frum. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 28:01

I don't go that far back. It's true though.

SPEAKER_01 28:05

But okay, so you made a statement before. Let's let's unpack it for a moment. Because I don't know if it's true. I don't know if I agree with you. I don't know if it's true at all. You may you made the statement.

SPEAKER_04 28:21

I I can't wait to hear what this statement is.

SPEAKER_01 28:24

You made the statement that when you are able to identify and recognize your core as a Nefesha Bahamas, yeah, that's gonna give you the opening to have the experience of eloquence. Of course. Core Nefesha Bahamas, we just said, but I'm saying core nefesh eloquis. Okay, but I'm saying once you recognize and accept that, even if you're not gonna do all the taivas that you have, of course you're not gonna do it. Then that's going to open you up to if you're doing it in a way of avoiding it, yes.

SPEAKER_04 29:16

You know why? Why? Because you're eventually gonna say it's gonna feel like the chulant on Shabbos two hours after you ate. Until then, you know what? All of your Nefesha Bahamas stuff is intellectual, it doesn't really bother you. It's philosophically not a good thing. Oh, I shouldn't be this way. And your Sechel says, Don't be this way. Okay. Does that mean you're feeling I am disgusted by my extra eating? No, I shouldn't eat is Lamatamina Seychel. I got it. Right? Okay. I don't know if it's Lamath, but core is I feel crap when I eat too much. Therefore, I am feeling about myself not good. And I don't want to be this way. I have the choice to be different.

SPEAKER_00 30:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 30:12

It's a place So you're gonna get to a place where you're just sick of yourself. I don't mean in like I I guess I that was the wrong term, but like you you become fed up with how you experience yourself.

SPEAKER_04 30:26

Let me ask you a question. When a guy, the famous uh case of someone hits bottom and they say, I'm my life is unmanageable. I don't want to be an alcoholic anymore. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 30:38

Okay. Is that core? Yeah. What's core? That feeling? What feeling?

SPEAKER_04 30:46

Be specific. That feeling of hitting rock bottom. No. No. Hitting rock bottom is core. Like I feel like crap is core.

SPEAKER_01 30:53

Crap is core. Are you nuts? No, but the the the way you're living your life and the fact that you finally now came to a recognition that this is your pit. Oh, you think it's a recognition? This is my pit? That's what it is. You're talking sechel again. I'm not talking sechel. Well, I'm talking recognition. You said I said recognize that you read it.

SPEAKER_04 31:15

Recognize means Sekel. No, you feel it. Thank you. Oh, the big word, feel. I know it's an Asr word in the Jewish world. Yeah. Feel. You feel it. Yeah. Okay. Who's feeling it? And why does the why is the feeling I will not be here anymore like this?

SPEAKER_05 31:39

It's core. It's choice. Core is choice.

SPEAKER_04 31:48

And when you said you you you you you were fed up of breaking Shabbos, and now you cannot break Shabbos. Was that was that Lamatamina Sekel? No. Oh, because Shabbos is so good. You know, Trump la uh two weeks ago said, whatever it was, a month ago said everybody should keep Shabbos. Why? Because it's a good thing.

SPEAKER_01 32:14

It was not it was not Lamai, it was not Lamata in a safe.

unknown 32:18

Fine.

SPEAKER_04 32:19

Okay. Was it let me ask you a question.

SPEAKER_05 32:22

Was it an FHL accept you think?

SPEAKER_04 32:26

Yeah. Was the part of you still going and saying, I want to go out and work on Shabbos? I want to go to the golf course, whatever you did in your five-town little villa that you have over there? Huh?

SPEAKER_01 32:38

What you're asking, did I still want to do it?

SPEAKER_04 32:41

I want to know what it is, what was your chulant moment when you decided that you must keep Shabbos? What were you thinking? What were you feeling? What I'm saying to you is you at without saying it in an intellectual way of analysis, you're finding your choice point. Your point of choice. Now it happens to be you're choosing the Nefishalakis. But your Nefish Bahamas was quieted. But you weren't saying, were you saying now I don't enjoy on Saturdays, I don't enjoy tennis?

SPEAKER_02 33:22

No.

SPEAKER_04 33:22

Of course not. And that's why so many Balchuvas who come to Terra Mitzvahs screw up their life because they think they're very different, that they don't want anymore to play tennis on Shabbos. No, you do. And there's nothing wrong with the fact that you do. But you're making a choice not to because there's another side of you. So stop playing games with yourself. And the bainini, by definition, by the Altareba, a bainini ain't gonna give up his Tivas in terms of pipinius. He'll always have a struggle. So are you supposed to beat yourself up for always having a struggle?

SPEAKER_01 34:02

No, no, but so You're saying so you're saying the core is the choice that comes from the not a place of Sechel, but the place of people can make choices based on Lamatamin is Sechel.

SPEAKER_04 34:20

Yeah, you can make a lot of good choices that way, of course. I'm saying core. I I got it operating out of identity, out of agency. So let's go to a simple example that we all experience.

Habitual Mitzvos And Spiritual Numbness

SPEAKER_04 34:36

And that is doing mitzvahs by habit. Is it good that you're doing the mitzvah? Of course.

SPEAKER_01 34:45

Of course. Is it good that you're doing the mitzvah?

SPEAKER_04 34:47

Do you feel do you feel good? Do you feel like pre-chulent or post-chrulent after you dove in uh out of habit? Oh well, depends. You see, because if you recognize and embrace the fact that you're doing it by rote, because you're I'm lazy, I'm I don't want to put out the effort, I'm worried about my business, whatever keeps you doing it. I didn't learn enough, I don't know what the hell I'm doing in this divening thing, anyways. But of course I never went and tried to put out any effort to figure out what I'm gonna be doing when I'm dovening. So do I accept that? Do I see that that's who I am? Or I just look at that as I shouldn't be that way.

SPEAKER_01 35:39

No, I okay. So I don't know what I'm hearing you say, and let's like condense this and go back to my original question, which is I was thinking and contemplating on what we said last time. That's already the problem. That I was thinking about what we said?

unknown 35:57

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:58

What do you mean? I was trying to come up with a goal. I told you in the last episode I'm going to come up with a goal from my core. So how do you come up with a goal?

SPEAKER_04 36:07

Wait, wait. I bet you can tell me I'm wrong, but I bet that that's I bet that that statement I was trying to come up with a goal from my core was based on your sachel that it's better to come up with a goal from your core.

SPEAKER_01 36:26

I don't know if I was thinking of it in terms of better. I was I was Sekel means better. No, I got I got that. I'm saying I was so so okay. So then go back to my original question. I don't know what my core is, or you don't need to know what your core is by definition. I got that. So, but how do you then come up with a sacred dickha decision of come up with a goal? You have to use your brain for a second. No. What do you mean, no? No. What do you mean, no?

SPEAKER_04 37:00

Again, let's go back to our example. You just ate like a chuzer on Shabbos, three pieces, three bowls of trillion, and you're starting to get bloated an hour later. And you're bloated an hour later, and you say, This is ridiculous. It's ridiculous. Okay. It's not Segel.

SPEAKER_01 37:25

And you say Yeah, you're fed up, and so therefore you make a decision from that place. I get what you're saying.

SPEAKER_04 37:31

Wait, wait. Segel kicks in and says, Okay, so how am I going to make sure I don't do it again? That's strategy.

SPEAKER_01 37:38

Segel is strategy. Yeah, but the making of the decision is not strategy, and it's not Sekel. It's a it's a feeling of fed upness.

SPEAKER_04 37:45

No, it's a feeling of sense of self. Why are you fed up? You're fed up with the way that you've got to why weren't you fed up when Why weren't you fed up when you shoveled another spoon of chulen in your mouth while you were already feeling like you were about to throw up? Why? Because you're a behama, whatever. No, no, that's not a good enough.

SPEAKER_01 38:06

Because you weren't you weren't acting from a place of core. You weren't coming from a place of core.

SPEAKER_04 38:10

You were coming from a place of core means I was not present even in the shoveling of the food in my mouth. Yes. The self sense of self that's gonna feel bloated was not there. Okay. Okay. Fine. That's why the Gumara says a behama that runs into a fire isn't a sugar in a behema. Right? Because behamas run away from fires. So obviously it was already not normal. Got it. Okay. So now that you feel bloated after the two hours of children eating. And by the way, what I'm talking about, we all know we've been through it. And we do it every Shabbos. Forget about two hours later. Why is it that coming up to Shabbos tomorrow, we're gonna do it again? Yeah. It's nuts. Okay, fine. Because we don't have a sense of self until after, right? Till after the pain. So you feel the core after the pain. Not in the sense of you feel at least you're admitting I feel sense of self rather than the action. Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:14

Let's let's go on from this example. But go, yeah, we're remember, connect us now back to how to make a decision for the case.

SPEAKER_04 39:22

So the first step is Zachary, stop using your very dumb, limited brain. Done. Shut it off. Next. You can't.

SPEAKER_01 39:35

What do you mean you can't? What do you want me to do here to figure out what my goal is?

SPEAKER_04 39:40

No, I'm not talking about uh uh I haven't mentioned the word goal. I mentioned goal. I know because your sachel is saying I need to have a goal because goals are good. No, we were talking about No You you flipped to goal. What your question is how do I get to my core?

SPEAKER_05 39:57

Okay. Goal

Mindless Living And The Robot Dog

SPEAKER_05 39:59

comes second. That's the whole point here.

SPEAKER_04 40:03

So you can't again, the the the tzadik knows, according to what this says in this miter, and feels that even his connecting to Elakos is a chidish in the oilum, which means the oilam is a limited place that doesn't have elukos. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 40:24

But he's still going for elokos.

SPEAKER_04 40:29

So I'm asking you on the Nevish Bahamas level, is stopping eating chulant to the point where you're bloated and you're not happy with yourself, is that to stop?

SPEAKER_05 40:45

Is that Sekel dick? No. No. It's feeling yeah. It's a sense of self.

SPEAKER_04 40:54

And when you don't do it from that point, and you're not operating out of sense of even of your goof of self, how do you expect to ever operate of your never keys sense of self?

SPEAKER_01 41:06

When even of your never Bahamas, you're not. So what are you operating from? You're operating choice. No, I'm saying if you're not doing this, what is everybody doing? What am I doing when I'm eating all that chalent? You're saying I'm not even feeling that sense of Bahamas. So what am I operating from? I'm just operating from Robotic.

SPEAKER_04 41:27

You're not mindful. That's correct. Even on the Nafi's behind the flavor. Yeah. And that is so comfortable to you that you don't even realize that you're not operating out of a sense of mindfulness, but you're doing it all the time. Shesh. Okay. I have a Taiva to have a dog. Now, why do I mention that? I'm not like. So so everyone tells me, you know, whenever they tell me about dogs, forget about the religious part. So one of my family members, I won't say her name because it'll get her embarrassed. She has a dog. And I watched how she walked this puppy into life. And it was like nuts because when I had a dog as a kid, no one knew about any of this stuff. Right? Or at least it wasn't the guy on the street. I'm talking about the training was insane. And you have to hire a trainer. And the the dog sleeps in a cage and he doesn't sleep at the foot of your bed like it did when I was a kid, etc. etc. etc. And the dog is trained, literally trained, to be, in a sense, robotic. Because it doesn't have Seycho. So it's just trained by training.

SPEAKER_02 42:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 42:49

Right? Is that how we want to be? So I'm saying I live like that a lot of time.

SPEAKER_04 43:00

When I can't in other words, happens to be at the moment we usually I usually grab your avocado, supposedly oil healthy. What do you mean it's taste? That's what it says. I know what it says. It's called advertising. Avocado oil, classic sea salt potato chips. But I'm on a regimen for the next little while, so I'm not having it. Okay. But when I do and when I'm not on that regimen, I'll eat that. I'll eat the whole fru what how many? I'll eat the whole 33 ounces of potato chips. If I if you don't have to do it, the family size. If you don't if I don't watch out. And I don't think about it. And I don't feel anything, actually, other than the salt and the oil.

SPEAKER_05 43:52

Okay. So I'm like a Bahama. And I'm realize and I'm not a remote.

SPEAKER_01 43:59

But you're coming at Behema, not coming from your core behema. Just your behema.

SPEAKER_04 44:04

The minute I realize what I'm doing, that it's me who's doing it, now I'm coming from my core.

SPEAKER_05 44:11

And you know what'll happen? I won't eat it.

SPEAKER_01 44:17

And if you do that with the intention of the biggest. If you do that with the levels that you're you're connected to of avoidance of shame, you're saying.

SPEAKER_04 44:23

You're gonna be able to do it in other ways. How do you expect to do with your navigal a keys when you don't even do it with your navigal Bahamas?

SPEAKER_03 44:30

Oh boy.

SPEAKER_01 44:31

Okay. So the idea that I was trying to come up with a goal, you're saying was the issue. Yeah. Alright, that was not clear. Okay, I think I get it.

SPEAKER_04 44:42

I told you we don't script things, so we think that we don't get to the point till the end. We work it through.

SPEAKER_05 44:49

So you have to.

SPEAKER_04 44:54

You know, we said before that I have um two or three hachlatas that I've been working on, right? One of them is, which I already didn't do tonight, not to interrupt someone. And the other thing is not to uh do two things at the same time. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 45:09

Man, that has been a hard haqlata for me, by the way.

SPEAKER_04 45:12

Okay. Not doing two things at the same time is also in thought.

SPEAKER_01 45:18

Explain.

SPEAKER_04 45:19

What do you mean explain? If I'm learning if I'm learning, I don't think about something else.

SPEAKER_01 45:23

Oh, you're just saying Maxhev is Zara.

SPEAKER_04 45:25

It's just like what does it mean, Zara? No, I I would think you're thinking about, excuse me, a playmate from 1982. Right? I'm trying to get to your when you were 12. Okay. I was not born yet. Oh, you weren't born yet. Okay. But really? I'm that much older than you? Dang. But what I'm saying is that Maqshabah Zara means if I'm focused on A, anything that comes up is B is Zara.

unknown 45:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 45:55

Doesn't have to be ugly. Doesn't have to be Us sir. Yes. Right? Yes, I got it. Okay. Yeah, it's very tough. But if I'm cognizant of. Now why did I do that, Haklata? Yeah. Because I'm tired of being all over the place. I'm tired of not reaching my goals. I'm tired of, in the essence, learning. I do a lot of learning. My hours, I put in the hours, but it could go in one ear and out the other in terms of memory. And it's got to be because I'm in two places at the same time. So that was my fed up moment.

SPEAKER_01 46:37

So you're really trying to get to the point where you're fed up and then the goal comes up.

SPEAKER_04 46:42

No, you keep saying fed up. It happens to be when you're talking about changing. Well, you're making a goal because you want to change.

SPEAKER_05 46:51

Oh, really? No? That's an assumption. Any goal, every goal is a change?

SPEAKER_01 46:59

It's not. No. Can you give me an example?

SPEAKER_04 47:02

I I am a millionaire, I want two million.

SPEAKER_01 47:04

So that's a change. That's not a change.

SPEAKER_04 47:08

Why not? I want more. Why not? I don't get what you're saying right now. Well, now I understand all of your problems in business. What do you mean? What do I mean? If you work out of business as an entrepreneur, which a sense you are in your own way. In a sense, I am. No, you don't have a company. No, you have a company, but you're not

Money Goals Versus Creative Purpose

SPEAKER_04 47:34

selling a product. You're selling a service. Okay. If you're an entrepreneur, in my estimation, does the business that he does because of who he is. And they're all gonna tell you, successful entrepreneurs, don't do it for the money. Yeah. The money will come. Okay. Okay. Now you just said, but it's for a change, it's for a goal. Which means money.

SPEAKER_05 48:06

Basically. And that's a trip up.

SPEAKER_04 48:12

Versus Because the minute Because what's the whole idea here? The minute you feel that I'm not making enough money or I didn't make the sale, what's your initial reaction?

SPEAKER_05 48:28

About yourself? I'm no good. Exactly. That's because you started that way.

SPEAKER_04 48:39

But if you start from I want to create that's called creating is meaning a business. I want to create wealth. I want to create goodness by using my wealth for good things. I want to create relationships in the business. I want to create a larger bank account to be able to create a new house, whatever it is that you're feeling that your core is creation. That's a lot different. And every challenge you have will be another moment to use your creative creation self. The other way around is oh my god, I didn't make it. I'm no good, I'm a failure, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So let's bring it down to what the Rebbe tells us to bring it down to.

Geulah, Mashiach, And Having A Self

SPEAKER_04 49:37

Is Gaulus who we are, or is Gaula who we are? Gaulah. Yeah, but I'm running around saying we need Mashiach now.

SPEAKER_05 49:48

Ad Masai, Ad Masai.

SPEAKER_04 49:52

And what we mean by that is we're stuck, we're screwed, and we need some kind of outside thing to help us. That's our goal. It's not coming from our core. And that's the disconnect between Rebbe that we have and where we're we could be holding, as well as the difference, at least expressed publicly in historically in the past.

SPEAKER_05 50:22

And if you're stuck in the past, you can't understand the Rebbe. Because he comes from core.

SPEAKER_04 50:32

And the core is that you're an effort and you're a godly person. But if I don't feel anything that I am, on one hand, I'm not admitting and accepting that I'm the guy who wants to eat the avocado chips in the whole family bag, right? So I'm kind of but I'm not feeling myself doing it. Now you want me to say, I I feel like I'm in Goola? I don't feel that. Right? So now what am I? So I'm full of crap. And now you have the Febrangans, and we all sit and talk about what? You know, you've complained about it.

SPEAKER_00 51:07

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 51:08

We have nothing to talk about.

SPEAKER_01 51:09

Yeah. Because we don't have any goals. But but the so the idea of living with Ghoul and Mashiach, the Rebbe says to live now with Ghoul and Mashiach.

SPEAKER_04 51:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:19

You're saying you're saying what?

SPEAKER_04 51:21

Is a feeling that comes from saying you're not going to feel it if you're completely disconnected to anything of sense of self um on both uh directions. Animal soul or godly soul. Worldly self or unworldly self.

SPEAKER_01 51:39

Because you're not because you're there's no eye there. There's no eye that's I know you don't like me, keep on using the word, but I like the term, like fed up. You feel fed up.

SPEAKER_04 51:49

No, when you feel your eye and you realize who your eye is, or you feel what your eye is, whatever you gonna what you're calling fed up with is gonna feel fed up with because it's not me.

SPEAKER_01 51:59

So that's emphasis on the I, not the. So that's what the Rebbe means by live with Gula and Mashiach now isn't it's not what he means.

SPEAKER_04 52:07

In other words, you can't if it's not coming from your core.

SPEAKER_01 52:09

You can't, you yeah, that's what I meant. You you can't live with Mashiach and Gula now in Gullis. If you're a person who doesn't have a Matsius. If you don't have Matsia.

SPEAKER_04 52:21

And every b guy, every Balchuva th, a lot most of them, think you're supposed to be Ois Metsius. And it's insanity. And then you have the FFB who think the other way around.

SPEAKER_05 52:34

This is my Metsius, so I have nothing to do with any of this. Both are wrong. That's all. I think.

SPEAKER_00 52:47

That's all.

SPEAKER_04 52:48

That's all folks. Yeah, that's all, folks. So now what's your question? You're not looking for you your question originally was looking finding a goal to find your core.

SPEAKER_00 53:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:01

That's why you want to go. That's why I was struggling. Because I noticed you want to find a core. That's why I was really struggling with that.

SPEAKER_04 53:08

How sick is that? Now let's ask the question this way: why do you want to find your core? Does it not make you sick that you don't feel a self of a sense of self of core? Doesn't that make you sick? It does. Thank you. So there you're gonna start finding your core. Because why should you feel sick from it? Because you have a core.

SPEAKER_01 53:32

So as long as you don't go into an analysis mode for a while.

SPEAKER_04 53:35

Analysis means separation. I got it. The famous Woody Allen in Annie Hall in the movie, where he's like courting Annie Hall, and they're having this conversation, but in the the way the script of the movie is, he steps out of himself and you hear his thoughts that he's not telling her. So he's and he's like he'll say something. She goes, the famous line, she goes, La Dida, and she goes, you hear her say to herself, Oh my god, I'm so stupid that I say la di-da. Who says la di-dah? And then he's thinking, he says, No, you don't have to worry about whatever she said. And he goes, What kind of person says La Didah? But he's thinking to himself, and you hear him think, so I'm saying, when you bifurcate yourself, and I now watch myself and I'm looking at myself as if I'm not the person who's doing what what I'm doing, then you have a problem.

unknown 54:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 54:32

Okay. And and the reality is, is that's the when you're not doing that, that's shabbas.

Shabbos Presence And The Sefer As Phone

SPEAKER_04 54:44

Shabbos is a time to find your core.

SPEAKER_01 54:46

Yeah, that's what you mean.

SPEAKER_04 54:48

Not when you're eating three bowls of children. Why? Because what is Shabbos? You're not doing anything. It's real bad. You're not doing anything. Yeah, but uh it also explains how come we have to go drink and eat? Because we we don't even have a feeling of wanting to be minucha.

SPEAKER_01 55:06

No, well a lot of us. Yes, okay, but I'm saying the Rebba's whole uh Sikha of Manucha and Shabbas and talking about the Rebbe's Shwuis and No, I'm saying this this this actually brings that idea very clear. Oh, good.

SPEAKER_04 55:22

So you know, last uh on Shwuis on Shabbos by Minchit around Minchatan, just before we went off to Minchat, my family was having this conversation about somehow somehow came up with who's gonna be on the phone right away after Shabiz and this whole phone thing, right? Correct. And they were like d discussing it, and you shouldn't get on, you know, everyone was coming down and everybody else about their phone. Okay, good. So I went off to Mincha and it was Shus, Shabiz. So we have to sing the Nagunim of all the Rebeyim. And I'm I'm sitting at the table, there was about twelve guys there, and we're all singing the gun. But about eight to twelve of those guys were looking into a safer while they were singing the nagunam. And I had this flash in my mind that the safer is their cell phone.

SPEAKER_01 56:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 56:32

You hear what I'm saying? I hear.

SPEAKER_01 56:34

That's a it's a heavy statement.

SPEAKER_04 56:36

Well, you know what guy once I get it. I do get it. I get it. It's Amazick. A guy once told me, you know, he was going through a divorce in Crown Heights, and he said, or some kind of shellm bias issue, he says, going through a divorce as a woman is much harder than as a man. I said, Why is that? Which I understood in my own heragesh, but why is that? He goes, Because a man could go into shul and dovin and learn. And she has nowhere to go. And I'm thinking to myself, is that why you learn in your davan in order to get out of your house? That's like the cell phone on sh that's like the safer on Shabbos. You're singing a niggin on Shvuas. And what's the Alakha? The Alakha says when the and I this is something I I have to really work on hard, and I haven't, and that is when the chhazar sash and they're repeating the Shmun Esray out loud, you're not allowed to be looking into a safer. Forget about your phone, but you're not allowed to look into a safer and learn. You're supposed to listen to the chhazar sa shots. Okay. But I want to go to the safer. I'm just I want to distract myself from this, whatever the reason is from this chazin. Not the person, chasm, but you know, whatever. I don't whatever the reason is.

SPEAKER_05 57:56

And the turtle says you have to be here now. And yeah.

Closing Question Learning That Speaks To Me

SPEAKER_04 58:08

I'm so just to finalize, I think it's like this. When you learn a mimer, when I learn a mimer, do I learn whatever is gonna come up in this mimer? That this is talking to who I am or to who I should be?