Dead Drifters Society: A fly fishing podcast

Fly Fishing Evolution and Simplification: Insights from Len Cook

• Andrew Barany • Season 1 • Episode 79

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Ever wondered what it takes to become a fly angler? Join me in a captivating conversation with Len Cook, who has 35 years of experience fly fishing in Vancouver Island and surrounding areas. We'll explore his journey into the world of fly fishing, the pursuit of steelhead, and the significance of the color green in his fishing adventures.

Len shares the changes he's witnessed in the fisheries over the years, his preferred gear, and how fly fishing has evolved since he began. We also discuss the unique landscapes and fishing cultures found in the Haida Gwaii and Vancouver Island. Dive into the fascinating world of fly fishing techniques, patterns, and the importance of simplifying one's flies for a successful catch.

In this episode, you'll also learn about Len's experience teaching his twins how to fish, the benefits of using the Echo Gecko rod for young anglers, and the importance of passing on the art of casting to future generations. Whether you're a seasoned angler or just getting started, you won't want to miss the wealth of knowledge and fishing tales Len Cook has to share.

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Len Cook:

There's a ton of other little lakes that I won't name that are in the north, in the caribou, in the north. So there's some around Prince George and you can go out there and average 18-inch trout all day long And they're within an hour My house, 45 minutes. And there's some others that are a little bit farther south, down in the caribou. The fish are jerks, that's how I put it. They're huge And sometimes the lake hates you. Sometimes the lake loves you And I've gone to that. You know some of those lakes in the past and I had the wrong color, green for ornament, not even kidding, and like fishing right beside someone fishing same depth, slightly different green, and he's catching a fish and I'm like what is going on? And then he's like try one of these. And I put his fly on, flip it out there and boom.

Intro/Out:

Welcome to Dead Drifter Society, a fly fishing podcast to share information, our adventures and our opinions. We want to see where everyone is at in life and on the water. We'll ask questions and get answers so we can learn everything there is to learn about fly fishing. And now here's your host, Andrew Barony.

Andrew Barany:

Welcome back to Dead Drifter. On this episode we chat with Len Cook, who has fished my home waters quite a bit when he was younger, so I got to pick his brain about that. We talk about chasing steelhead fishing lakes. We get it all in, so I hope you really enjoy it and I will see you down at the end. Welcome, len. How's it going Good? how are you? I'm doing good, man. I appreciate you coming on the podcast and sharing your journey.

Len Cook:

Yeah, for sure, i appreciate you inviting me.

Andrew Barany:

Yeah, let me just do not disturb, because I just saw something pop up and phones do that a lot, oh yeah good point. Yeah, so I guess we've already had a little bit of a conversation, but why don't you let us know where you're from and what you're kind of up to these days?

Len Cook:

Right on. Yeah, i grew up in Victoria. I lived in Victoria until I was about 30 and then I moved up to PG Prince George and been here ever since.

Andrew Barany:

Right on, so Vancouver Island, and then staying in on the west side pretty much.

Len Cook:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I fished most of the island when I lived down there.

Andrew Barany:

Yeah, yeah, and I think that's originally why I kind of asked you, because I was like, oh, i love when people have like some even if it wasn't history, but let's say your history of the island, and kind of like growing up back then before I was even live, or when I was very young, kind of deal. So it's always cool. So you and you were saying that, like you pretty much like, how did you get into fly fishing? I'll let you take over.

Len Cook:

My dad was into it. So I started off fly fishing which you can call it that by pulling a dock Spratley around behind the canoe on some lakes around Victoria when I was super young and then got into fishing to couch and mostly what was almost all walking way back then. And then, yeah, i've been fly fishing and tying since I was around 10. So, oh God, 37 years of that.

Andrew Barany:

Sorry to make you think of that, all good.

Len Cook:

Yeah, I know it was a lot of fun Still is. Yeah, I grew up fishing. Really, the first river I fished was couch and fished two quat, Yeah A lot of the last go streams and then up to all the port hardy fished river. But there's a lot. Yeah.

Andrew Barany:

Yeah, so like 37 years, i mean that's quite some time to be spending fly fishing and we're doing other things. But did you see like major changes in the last, like coming back and just like noticeable changes in the fisheries or anything like that?

Len Cook:

You know it's interesting, when I was, when I first got into it, there were a lot. I think there were a lot more Browns than there were in, I guess, the late 90s, early 2000s. But now, from what I've seen, there's a lot more. The Browns seem to be coming back, you know, on the couch and yeah, at least I know that, like the just some streams up North Island that have got some Browns too, but they're, they've always been sort of hitting this hard to find fish up there.

Andrew Barany:

Okay, we might have to talk after this podcast, because I did not know that.

Len Cook:

So yeah, i can't name them publicly. Yeah, Yeah.

Andrew Barany:

I know that there's like a lake up Island. I've heard that they've. There was more systems with Browns, but I haven't heard of it really in a while, so it would be interesting to even go check it out, though. I mean, there's, as you know, there's so many, so many systems on this island. You can probably spend a lifetime and not hit them all, at least not efficiently. No, exactly, yeah.

Len Cook:

Yeah, even around, you know, even around the bottom half of the Island, it's hard to hit them all and find fish, and then for sure, Yeah, so when you were saying like there was mostly walking way back then, were you working the fly only section?

Andrew Barany:

Was it still a fly only? I believe it was.

Len Cook:

It was Yeah, yeah, so I fished. we used to go to road pools So I guess it's called Little Beach now. Yeah, we fished there a lot. We fished Spring Pool, those areas on the couch and yeah. And then we go down to fish like Scots and Stoltz and I fished the bottom end a little bit as well, but not too much.

Andrew Barany:

Yeah, were you mostly chasing? like, what were you chasing at that time?

Len Cook:

Mostly trout. Yeah, so rainbows and browns, yeah, and catties. There were quite a few catties in there, i remember, at least below the falls, below Scots, oh, interesting.

Andrew Barany:

Yeah, were you doing like egg season or like all year round, or were you mostly?

Len Cook:

Pretty much all year, yeah, yeah.

Andrew Barany:

Yeah, Sorry you go.

Len Cook:

I was going to say when the river was fishable with the fly I was trying to get up there.

Andrew Barany:

Okay, yeah, i guess it's all water related. Did you see much of a difference of the way they have it? Are they controlled the water, or has that been pretty much the same as well?

Len Cook:

I feel like there's a lot less water over the last few years. Interesting, yeah, at least, and I haven't fished a couch in that much in the last 10 years, so since my kids came along, but before that I think. The river, yeah, but there seemed to have been more water And now it seems like there's less at last. Interesting, but that could be. I'm not sure if that's anthropogenic related or if that's just lack of snow in the mountains in the winter.

Andrew Barany:

Yeah, well, i know they obviously control the dam and all that and they choose one to drop it and all that stuff. So yeah, it would be interesting to almost go back and see if they're doing the same thing they are now or what's up with that.

Len Cook:

But I have heard. The data should be available. So all that hydrometric data should be around somewhere. Yeah, whether you can get it online or not, i don't know for how long, how far it goes back.

Andrew Barany:

Yeah, that would be interesting to even look at. Yeah, so were you, i guess, the gear as well, when you first started and kind of grew up. You must have seen it really evolve. But what were you using back then?

Len Cook:

Yeah, i still have it. It's right over there. It's a Mitchell. It was a Mitchell six weight, two piece, nine foot fly rod And I don't even remember what reel it was, just trying to see if I've still got it. I think it was like a BFR reel or something like that.

Andrew Barany:

Yeah, is that the same Mitchell that makes like the Mitchell 300 reel? Yeah, that's sick. I have one of those, actually with a bunch of spare spools.

Len Cook:

Right on. Yeah, it was a graphite rod. My dad had an old head and fiberglass rod that he fished. I guess it was more me pushing him to go fly fishing more and get on the river more that he started to buy more gear which I borrowed until I could afford my own stuff. But it was parents for right. Well, exactly. And now I've got like 30 plus rods sitting beside here.

Andrew Barany:

So like 10 rods. every one rod a year almost.

Len Cook:

Yeah, i go through phases, yeah Yeah, sometimes I'll sell some and then I'll just be like, no, i gotta get some more.

Andrew Barany:

What are some of the brands that you like? I mean 30 rods.

Len Cook:

I fish mostly Scott. Okay, i used to have a lot of Orvis rods but I sort of got away from those. I just the Scott rods seem to agree with me more. Yeah, with my casting style, both single handed end space. So, like most of my spas are, with the exception of a miser that I built and an Echo glass, they're all Scott's.

Andrew Barany:

Yeah, okay. Yeah, i was trying to think how long ago. It must have been like three months ago. It was the first time I ever cast a Scotty and I was very impressed. I really liked it. I mean, these days I'm, you know, watching the spending, so I don't really venture too high, but I do have some more expensive rods and some less expensive rods and the Scotty was like, yeah, i'd say it's worth its dollar value.

Len Cook:

I think, so I try to find them used, if I can. Yeah. I mean it seems crazy and you know a lot of money. 1200 bucks for a single handed rod is like whoa. Yeah, it's hard to justify.

Andrew Barany:

It is hard to justify, especially when there's someone else that pays attention to the money with us. Yeah, and so you're also saying that you've started tying basically when you started fly fishing.

Len Cook:

So around the same time.

Andrew Barany:

Yeah, I mean materials and all that must have. Really, were they much harder to come by.

Len Cook:

They weren't hard to come by, they were just super basic. Yeah, you know, and there weren't like. When I was, i had a couple old books that my dad had and there was no internet. Yep, i started tying, right. So it was like these old books, and I'm just like, okay, i'm going to try to tie some stuff that might look like it's supposed to.

Andrew Barany:

Yeah, do you have any of those old flies?

Len Cook:

Yeah, i've still got a bunch. I got a bunch of my dads and I got a bunch of my old ones.

Andrew Barany:

Oh, that's cool.

Len Cook:

Yeah, they're in a case somewhere in here, i don't even know. Yeah, in a fly box behind me on the gel.

Andrew Barany:

Was there? where were you living at that time, when you were fishing the cow roughly? I grew up in Oak Bay, oak Bay, okay. Were you still going to Robinson's outdoor store or were you a yeah, cool.

Len Cook:

Yeah, yeah, Those were Robinson's, pretty much Robinson's an old shop called Couch and Flying Tackle Calvin McKay Yeah, it used to be Cedar Hill Cross and Calvin. Oh, wow, up in that weird little plaza up there It was up on top. Yeah, yeah, calvin ran that. And then, yeah, i've known not only guys at rock since I was, like, started going in with my dad when I was little little, yeah, you know, back when they still sold bikes and guns and all that stuff.

Andrew Barany:

Oh, that's cool to hear. I didn't even know that.

Len Cook:

Yeah, it was long, long, long, long, long time ago. But yeah, I've known that since he started at Robinson's.

Andrew Barany:

Yeah, and then were you pretty much just like fly fishing consistently, or did you take like breaks throughout that span of time?

Len Cook:

I pretty much fly fish consistently. Wow, i dabbled in centerpin a little bit and did a bit of gear fishing, but mostly, mostly fly.

Andrew Barany:

Yeah, yeah. And when did the two handed game come up for you?

Len Cook:

When I moved up north actually, so that was about 17 years ago Wow, i started to get into it. I have a total hack two handed caster. People actually know how to cast two handers. look at me and think what the hell is he doing. But I took a course. I took a lesson one day, lesson in Victoria, and then I just kind of went from there.

Andrew Barany:

Yeah, well, that's kind of a cool thing. It's like, i mean, the fish don't know if you're amazing, right, as long as you're enjoying yourself out there.

Len Cook:

Yeah, Yeah. And then I looked at it. if the fly gets to where I want it, that's fine.

Andrew Barany:

Yeah, that's something. When I'm with clients I definitely mention that a lot, like hey, we can be a great caster, but if you can fish your fly that lands on the water properly, that's also a huge thing. That's like almost more important in a sense. I mean, obviously, if we're doing like certain species around the world where you need to hit the pin, then that might be a little different story. But trout and salmon at least, i mean even steelhead as long as you can present the fly properly and do that, are you chasing steelhead and salmon quite a bit.

Len Cook:

Yeah, mostly steelhead. That's what salmon I haven't been in over the last few years because there's that sort of, i guess that steelhead weren't really returning to the rivers up here for a while. There There was a few years for the returns really low, so I just didn't fish them. I do go over to Hidaguay every year and fish the rivers over there Amazing, yeah. So I try and go at least once a year. So last year I was there twice, once in September, once in, i think every December. Okay, yeah, i get to travel over there for work once in a while too, so that helps All right. But yeah, i just like to fish flyfish on the IQ and it's like a. You know, i've got a Cuber Island River but like some of those little West Coast streams, nice and small and tight, go over there a little. 12 foot, 8 weight.

Andrew Barany:

Yeah, i've heard that those systems are hard to time though They are, they're very hard to time.

Len Cook:

Yeah, Yeah, you can miss it by a day or a week or you can hit it like bang on, And one year I went there I hit it pretty much solidly.

Andrew Barany:

Yeah, yeah. And there's like I mean, it's based off the rain, right, the rain comes, it goes up and then, as it's dropping, that's usually the prime time, but it does so fast, kind of deal.

Len Cook:

Yeah, yeah exactly. Okay, yeah, and there's, yeah, it's pretty, you know, and there's not a lot of fish And there's a fair amount of pressure.

Andrew Barany:

Yeah, is that mostly like were you doing a DIY or were you getting a guide, or I only do DIY Yeah fair enough. Yeah, what kind of drove you to get out there? You just read about it or heard about it.

Len Cook:

I used to work at my Garri Island Lodge for a bunch of years and then I, a bunch of the guys there were you know, big seal head guys and a couple of buddies of mine live over on Highdeck Island and they were like, hey, you want to come? And I was like, yep, yeah, for sure, it definitely want to come. Yeah, and it was just you know the evolution of it. I love it over there And I thought what the hell, let's go.

Andrew Barany:

Yeah Well, i guess some people might not know where we're talking about. But Highdeck, why the Queen Charlotte Islands? that's like below Alaska. It's an island that's off off the mainland, i guess in a sense.

Len Cook:

Yeah, it's a bigger propellant. I don't know how many islands there's tons. there's two main ones, Graham and Morrisby.

Andrew Barany:

Yeah, Yeah, i did commercial fishing up there. We were going out of Masset and so we would hit like kind of the top section and go to the west side and yeah, some kind of cowboy land out there when you're out on the water for two weeks at a time.

Andrew Barany:

But yeah, it was super cool to see that that area and then going up and down all the BC, like from the ocean, and you know I had a lot of time. I think it took us like three, four days. No, maybe not that long. Either way, it took like multiple days for us to sail from. Where do we sail from To Fino?

Len Cook:

all the way up. Oh yeah, Yeah, it's a couple three days at least.

Andrew Barany:

Yeah, so, yeah, so lots of whales, so lots of stuff. Got to do some fishing myself and Robert and went for some salmon there when we stopped in there and yeah, so I'll find myself back up there eventually, yeah it's worth it.

Len Cook:

Yeah, even if you don't fish, i just I don't even care if I fish, like I'm one of those guys who goes through the river, the fly rod, and sometimes the rod never leaves the yeah, never leaves the bank, yeah, just enjoying it so much, yeah.

Andrew Barany:

So what was kind of like your major? I mean I know you were saying like when you were first learning, especially the fly tying at least you mentioned it you were like learning from books and stuff, i mean learning how to cast and all that like was that? did your dad know how to fly fish pretty well to the extent of, or was it a lot of just trial and error?

Len Cook:

It's a lot of trial and error, yeah.

Andrew Barany:

Yeah And same with like actually catching fish and fishing like the cowgins not an easy system. No, from my understanding, i mean I'm used to it now, but like you didn't have tungsten beads back then, right?

Len Cook:

No, no tungsten beads, fished a lot of dry flies, fished a lot of unweighted stones, and then, you know, you cram as many brass beads on a stone, fly nymphed as you can, then wrapped a bunch of lead wire around it, and you, you know, it sinks right, yeah, and then no, it's a lot different now though. Yeah.

Andrew Barany:

Now you just need one tungsten bead.

Len Cook:

Exactly, exactly. Those tungsten nymph bodies are awesome too. It's got some of those. I'm like, wow, why have I not been using these?

Andrew Barany:

Yeah, i've been talking to someone in. I don't remember exactly, but he was fishing in Germany, so he was on the border. Anyways, long story short, though he was talking about like the first time they ever like found tungsten beads and just the like major gain. Change that that provided. Yeah, yeah, it's huge. Yeah, were you like when you were tying with all that? like you know, stone flies, how did you figure out the stone fly? Did you read it in a book or are you just like looking under rocks.

Len Cook:

Mostly in a book. And then, yeah, and you know, looking looking under rocks and looking in the, you know the reeds and branches around the shores on the rivers. And then, yeah, i tied a lot of Kauffman stones. My dad had the, yeah, my dad had. My dad bought the Kauffman books. I don't think they're going to be behind me. Yeah, so he had the dry fly one and then the nymph one. Okay, so I just learned through those. And then I'd go into Robinson's or Cowjard Flying Taco and I'd buy one and get together, try to figure out what was in there. Ask, you know, ask Alvin or Matt or whoever else was at Robinson's. It was a time to you know what in this thing. So then I, you know, buy materials and whip them together.

Andrew Barany:

They weren't very good but they worked, they worked.

Len Cook:

Yeah.

Andrew Barany:

Yeah, no, it's one of those things that I've like really come to understand in the last year of doing some guiding and trying to simplify my flies. I had got as far as like not worrying about at all, if they look good, i whip them up fast and they still fish good, like no problem. So there's a level where it's like picture perfect and you can show your friends and other things that you know and they'll both catch fish, yeah, but one you'll show proudly and the other one you're like, oh yeah, this thing Yeah.

Len Cook:

Yeah, Exactly Were you Yeah.

Andrew Barany:

I thought, right, yeah, i was just going to ask when it was fly only back then, where the rules kind of the similar like bar bliss, no indicators and no lead split shots.

Len Cook:

Yeah, yeah, same as now, yeah Yeah.

Andrew Barany:

So it was really about getting that fly as heavy as possible and dropping it down. Yeah, that's interesting, did you find? I don't know, you said you haven't fished it like a ton lately, but did you find like size changed at all, like the average of fish, or was that pretty consistent?

Len Cook:

I think it's pretty consistent. It almost seems to me like the fish that I hooked the last time I was on the couch and around the Easter. I didn't land it even, i just lost them all, so I wasn't really paying attention. They were bigger than I remember on average, but again, i just fished a short. I fished about two, three hours and just fished a small piece of water.

Andrew Barany:

Yeah, yeah. What's your kind of like techniques when you're fishing? I mean, especially if you're only doing two, three hours, are you like? instead of going to like five different spots or whatever do you like really just pick apart one spot, kind of deal I do.

Len Cook:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was, yeah, generally like if I got, if I know the river, or even if I don't, i'll just pick a section and just work the whole section. Yeah, i can see what I can find there. How do you work it? Pretty much like getting you over.

Andrew Barany:

Is it like pretty standard? Are you like just walking down, casting and taking a few steps, kind of like steelheading, or what's your tactic Basically like?

Len Cook:

steelheading. I find that, like a lot of people think they need to cast, you know, 30, 40 feet, catch your fish. But I was on a river up here yesterday with a buddy of mine and he's got a trout spade and he's bobbing, flies like 30 feet and I'm urine emptying and I'm picking fish up like 12, 14 feet in front of me.

Andrew Barany:

Yeah.

Len Cook:

Right. So it just comes to the. You know with experience and time and everything else. But I find that you know the fish are. The fish are at your feet, essentially Like there's. There's runs on the bulk where the steelheader literally your feet. You walk in there. I'm like no, don't go in that part of the river. The fish are right there. You're shaking your head like no. I learned it by some old guy yelling at me to get out of the river because they're sitting right where I'm standing. I thought really The next morning I went down there and I didn't even get in the water.

Andrew Barany:

I hung a fly off the bank, the NMX Bay rod, and right on Yeah, yeah, it is definitely something like I don't quite know what it is, but I mean same. When I started, i'd walk in as almost as deep as I could go and cast as far as I possibly can. I don't think I learned that anywhere. No one was like you have to go deep and you have to cast as far, but yet somehow everyone just has this mutual understanding. Like you want to catch fish, you get it in deep and you cast as far as possible. It's very interesting, yeah, but yeah. So when did you start your own NMX? When were you introduced to that?

Len Cook:

About, i don't want to say eight years ago.

Andrew Barany:

Oh, wow, yeah, Okay. So that's like. I feel like that's around. When it became to Canada almost I don't know how long it's been in Canada, but like.

Len Cook:

You think it's been around a bit longer than that. I've got a couple of friends up here who are competitive anglers, who are headed to fly anglers and do a lot of the world championships and stuff. Wow, That's why I'm thinking, so they got me into it. Yeah, I went fishing with a guy and he's like you've got a nymph rod And I'm like, well, yeah, I just used my nine foot four weight And he's like what? Then I saw his rod. I was like what the hell is that? Okay, fine, I never forget one.

Andrew Barany:

Do you remember the first time you went to the cow, chin and fish bureau? Yeah, yeah, was it lights out? It was Yeah.

Len Cook:

It definitely was. It's funny because the same flies worked anywhere in this province, like you can grab, like the Duracell nymphs, which is a. I don't know who came up with that pattern It might have been Egan or someone, one of those guys from the US But it's just a purple fly And with a brass bead or copper bead. I should say like copper tungsten bead. Yeah, yeah, that stupid thing is lights out everywhere.

Andrew Barany:

It's just nuts, it's like.

Len Cook:

so it's a nymph body, but purple No it's just, it's just like Dr Leon tail, purple dubbed body with a flashback red rib and a couple of turns of CDC, gray CDC. But the copper bead, like the copper colored bead, yeah, like I've caught fish in the Yukon with it. I've caught fish in Alberta. I've caught fish on high to quiet with it. Thank you for Island. We're on Prince George down in the East, we're on Princeton. Everywhere The fly just works right, yeah, and it's kind of it's the shape, i think like getting into the shape and the flow and it kind of looks like a well, nothing in the large purple, but it kind of some reason the trout like purple.

Andrew Barany:

Yeah, i have. My three colors are purple, orange and red, especially for hotspots. Orange and red, those two hotspots, like I've. I tried this year. I found one fly that is very suggestive of multiple things And my buddy actually from um Rowland's outdoor store, zach, he showed me it And then I added a, I simplified it a bunch of well, not a bunch, but enough to make it so I could tie it fast. Orange hotspot And it was basically my go to for like two, three months.

Len Cook:

That hotspot seems to be pretty key.

Andrew Barany:

Yeah, it's interesting And someone explained it to me, like when you know if you were looking at like all these cheeseburgers, he used a different thing. But if you're looking at like a hundred cheeseburgers and then you notice one had cheese on or one had bacon on it, you know you'd be like, Ooh, that one's for me, right.

Andrew Barany:

So, yeah, i think it just stands out. I've even been using the hotspot on my dry flies now And I don't I haven't done enough dry fly fishing. Like you know, the cow dren it's, it's hit or miss. With dry flies You can get them, for sure, and find hatches, no problem, but it's not every day. Kind of consistency, yeah, but yeah, so I've been kind of dabbling in that. Is there any like kind of unique tying things that you kind of start dabbling in?

Len Cook:

Um, not really. I tie, like I started tying a lot of, but I tie a lot of dry flies. Okay, i just tie a lot of flies later, but I tie a lot of me flies and push a lot of me flies. You see, you have a lot more mayfly hatches up here. Yeah, donnie Rathmas wrote a book called the hatches and it's. I don't know if you've seen it. You probably got a copy of it, yeah, yeah.

Len Cook:

He's a good friend of mine up here. We fish together a lot. So I fish with him for years And uh, and we, we you know, yeah, he's got some, some really innovative patterns. I just I really tie a lot of his, like his plinger nymphs glaze, yeah, and uh yeah, so he wrote that book.

Andrew Barany:

You should tell him that he should make hatches for dummies. You know, it's like when I read that I literally like my brain melts. I'm like there's like the only words I understand are like the hatch, and then the rest is very like, yeah, i'll read it. I've read it, um, not through and through, but I've gone through quite a bit of it And there are so many words in there that I'm like, wow, like this guy is, i would actually love to have him on. So maybe we'll have that conversation as well.

Andrew Barany:

Yeah, for sure, because I haven't really had like a buggy guy, you know, like someone that goes that deep into the bugs. He's the one, he's the one. Yeah, well, and I like one of the things I really like about that book and I haven't read a ton of fly fishing books in general, but I like that it, you know, lots of pictures for the dummy guy like me that helps. But then at the end it has like all the nymphs and like the patterns and stuff like that. Like I think it was really well done and anyone that's smarter than me or at least understands the terminology more would probably get a little bit more out of it. But yeah, that's really cool. How long have you known him?

Len Cook:

About seven, 16 years, about 16 years. Wow, i think I met him when I first moved up here.

Andrew Barany:

Yeah, 16 or 17 years. What does he do for work? Is that like?

Len Cook:

He's a.

Andrew Barany:

he's a professor at the university Ah okay, yeah, is that what he studies, or what he was studying, or He?

Len Cook:

does Yeah, he does a lot of research on fish and aquatic insects, Okay cool.

Andrew Barany:

So he's like the Brian Chan of Rivers in a sense, essentially yeah, yeah, not to really downplay either of them, but that's just No, no, no, absolutely yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Got to make this simple for myself, you know, yeah, so I guess he's dropped a lot of knowledge on you, i'm assuming. Absolutely, yeah, what are some of like do? does anything stand out that he kind of?

Len Cook:

Really just the patterns and and you know and how to fish them, yeah, and where to fish them.

Andrew Barany:

Yeah, yeah, that's interesting. I've been trying to, like this year I was taking a little bit more notes, let's say more mental notes than actual physical notes, on hatches and like when they were happening and like kind of trying to wrap my brain around it, and by the end of the season, which is basically now, i've decided that I have no clue. I can just figure it out. When it's happening I'm like, ooh, something's happening right now. Try these things.

Len Cook:

I think the couch is weird that way because, like, i remember fishing it with my dad and there used to be like amazing paddysackers. I've heard that the thing in the past I you know, i haven't seen them myself because, again, i'm not down there at all I've heard that they're not. They're not as prolific as they used to be.

Andrew Barany:

Yeah, i've stumbled on, i could probably count it on one hand. Oh, wow, two or three like good catfish hatches and they were all late in the evening Like pretty sure they were hatching because I was using like mergers and stuff and they were the fish were smacking that. But I'll actually use a catfish. I'll use a catfish as like kind of a searching pattern at times when like mayflies are hatching and I've done well doing that. So once again, i think, almost like the hot spot, like something just stands out a little bit more. Yeah, it's, it's.

Andrew Barany:

It is confusing. Like I was on the water for you know, three, three weeks straight, like every day and days that I was like, oh, today's going to be a great hatch, it's all there. There'd be like no dry fly action and like no bugs, and then days I would show up and be like, oh, i don't think so. And so then I started changing my mindset and being like, oh, today should be a really good hatch, and I was like that same and then it wouldn't happen, and then the next day would happen And like, all right, i'm hopeless. Like you kind of do need to be following the water temp and pressure and all that if you're really wanting to hone in on figuring that out. But my theory, and probably most people, it's like well, i'm going fishing today, whether or not, so I'll bring dry flies and I'll bring nymphs.

Len Cook:

Exactly. Yeah, it's interesting up here like I fished one river on Saturday closer to Prince George And by three, three, 30th it was just a blizzard mayfly hatch. And then I was out west at a different river yesterday and there was no hatch, like we saw zero insects. Water temps were similar, but that it's river dependent. I think it's definitely changing a lot.

Andrew Barany:

Yeah, the mosquitoes are still fierce, but they seem to be around no matter what, as long as it's warm out. Yeah, what are your fisheries like out there, and what are the species that are?

Len Cook:

out there. The fisheries are pretty amazing, even though we've had a lot of logging up here, but at the same time, suppose the island right. You know, we've got some rivers up here that are just like outstanding for aquatic insects and fish And it's just pretty much. There's one river that's an hour from home and it's got rainbows, bulls and a bunch of coarse fish, like done in Pike Minnow and Rockamount, and Whitefish, as well as suckers, but I can't think of the proper name for them.

Andrew Barany:

Yeah, okay.

Len Cook:

So I generally target. We don't have catties up here, unfortunately. We do on the coast, but just not inland. Yeah, i understand. But and the other thing, it's two hours north of here. I can get grailing. I've got a bunch of streams, not even two hours, hour and a half You can get up to the stream and fish grailing.

Andrew Barany:

Are the salmon making it up there?

Len Cook:

They are. Yeah, I never fish for them. Yeah, There's some right Like there's the Hat Free and Prince George and they released and the fish make it back up. But yeah, I've never really been into that, into fishing for them up this far.

Andrew Barany:

Yeah.

Len Cook:

Fair enough, But it's like a lot of people go out and fish the sockeye, but the time they're here they're tomatoes.

Andrew Barany:

Yeah. So then I guess, like, if you're going inland an hour plus, like that's quite a distance, so yeah, most of the, by the time they get there, they're spawning or they're like getting to their spawning areas.

Len Cook:

Yeah, prince George is or eight hours from Rupert. Yeah, Okay, And all the rivers flow sort of they don't flow this way towards us. So there's the divide. So there's they come up the Fraser and then they'll either go up in a shack or keep going up the Fraser. Yeah, So the fish that's spawning it's the lakko are Fraser River fish, believe it or not. So they swim all the way up the Fraser, all the way up in the shack. Yeah, So they're going to go up the Fraser Lake and then up the slakko.

Andrew Barany:

That's amazing. Is that kind of the main reason why you don't really target them, because you just feel like they've done enough work?

Len Cook:

Yeah, and you know I don't think like a lot of the rivers. You know there's no sockeye opening. Yeah, And I don't really eat fish. I never really have. Like, i'll eat fish in the ocean, i'll eat salmon and halibut and cod, but I honestly prefer white fish. I'd rather eat like a cod or halibut any day over salmon. Yeah, i mean, people think I'm crazy. They're like oh, you got to go. No, i'm good.

Andrew Barany:

Yeah, no, i'm in the same boat, or you'd say the same raft, but yeah, no, it's definitely. I don't eat half as much fish as yeah, definitely not as much as I catch. And I've kind of stopped fishing a ton of salmon in the rivers as well, mostly because, like my mindset kind of shifted to like they've, you know, if they've made it to their spawning grounds and stuff, I'm going to leave them alone, i'll target the trout behind them and all that. But as terraris I still do that, oh for sure.

Len Cook:

Yeah, i used to fish and see it a lot when the chum and coho were coming in.

Andrew Barany:

On the fly, yeah, okay. Well, why don't you spit some game on that? Was there any technique, as I've tried and come up empty handed more times than I've caught fish by a long shot.

Len Cook:

I used to fish with a single hander and I would just fish a. I'm trying to think. I think it was like a shark truce and purple Minnow pattern essentially no weight, but a four-foot leader with a chunk of P10. Okay, a floating mainline, right? So I just pitch it out there and sling it through, and most of them you caught them in the mouth, right? Some of them didn't, but most of them took it in the mouth.

Andrew Barany:

Now, was that the actual part of the soup river that's still tidal, or were you talking like going down to the actual estuary, or like in the middle, in the?

Len Cook:

tidal section. So where the campground is. I don't know if it's still there. Yes, it is. They used to let you go through. Yeah, And we could fish there. I think you can still.

Andrew Barany:

yeah, I think you can still yeah, and there's even that little creek that's by the bridge there where the coho will go up there. That's a little life hack. I found the chum. Yeah, yeah, it's pretty cool. Now I'll go to the soup only when, like, rain has come, because it gets very low and then you're pretty much a snagging fish. Yeah, but how do you like chum salmon? What's your thoughts on chum salmon? It was like, personally, i find that they are under estimate, yeah, underestimated, i guess under appreciated, as well as going for, i think they're pretty great game fish in the river.

Len Cook:

They're tons of fun to catch. Yeah, a good way to blow up a six-way to proficient daddy is you get one. But yeah, i used to fish from an eight-way to a ten-way. They were tons of fun. Yeah, yeah. Well, i think they're tons of fun to catch. They fight harder than anything else.

Andrew Barany:

Yeah, 100%. I mean pound for pound. I would say pink salmon fight the hardest And that's simply because I've caught them in open estuaries like up island, where I've had my eight-way, eight-way I don't know if I said that weird, but anyways my eight-way and they're completely corked, doing circles around me And I'm like in my mind what's going on? This is like a four or five pound fish that's just destroying me. So I don't know if it's just they're that fresh and really hot and they're just going to. But I think, pound for pound, like if pink salmon got to the size of chum or springs or coho whatever Yeah, it could just be their small size then takes less energy to move their body, that kind of motion.

Len Cook:

But yeah, we used to when I worked at Langara, we used to catch them. We'd go out to the kelp and it's on flies for coho and Chinook, yeah. And then the open ocean and that was like here, and I had an able super tan and it was like halfway through the back before you know it. You're like what?

Andrew Barany:

the Yeah, and so you were working at Langara Yeah.

Len Cook:

Guiding I worked in the dock. I guided a little tiny bit Okay. But yeah, I know I worked in the dock. That was a long time ago.

Andrew Barany:

Yeah, and that kind of like the cooler the hours, the color of that, all work The hours were long.

Len Cook:

Yes, It was usually, I don't know 435 o'clock in the morning until eight o'clock at night. Yes, Seven days a week. Yep, Got the fish cleaning boats, getting fish, helping the guys out fueling boats, running snacks out to the guests.

Andrew Barany:

Okay. So if, like, let's say, if I was out there on a boat guiding or a guest whatever, and I was like, oh, i want something to eat, you would be delivering that They did a breakfast.

Len Cook:

They used to do a breakfast run. I think they still do So. they would like run hot sandwiches out all the boats and coffee and stuff. And the guides can radio Used to be the guides to the radio in and say, hey, couldn't you bring out blah, blah, blah? If there was someone there they would jump in the zodiac and rip it out. Wow.

Andrew Barany:

Yeah, when I was commercial fishing, i used to just like sit there and I'm like so tired and like so overworked I was. It was my captain, and then there was me the deckhand. He drove the boat and I cooked, cleaned and fished and did it like every little step. So like I would see people on, i would see people guiding or like the guests just catching fish, like off the shore, and I'd be like, oh, my goodness, do I wish I was doing that right now. But my work ethics went up, so that's a good thing, Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Len Cook:

If I you know, if I didn't, if I didn't need a reel in, i might love to go do it again, yeah.

Andrew Barany:

Have you? did you get? how often would you actually get a fish, or did you not really?

Len Cook:

I fished all the time.

Andrew Barany:

Well, you were up there. So, like after work, were you allowed to take like the zodiacs out and No, we had a couple of a bunch of little.

Len Cook:

We called them red boats, so basically a little open aluminum. Yeah, we'd take out and just we didn't go too far and we just fished the kelp beds, but you could catch, you could catch salmon off the dock there, like it was.

Andrew Barany:

Location, location, location. Yeah, yeah, absolutely Yeah, and was the pay pretty good at that time I think for for that you know it was then.

Len Cook:

Yeah, It was all right, you made. You made decent money like I was paying for university. I was managing to pay for two semesters university with it.

Andrew Barany:

Wow, and then you were also getting like free food and free room and board. Yeah, for the soon, yeah. Yeah. That's kind of where it balances out majorly, exactly When you're like the food, especially with today's food prices. I was looking at going to a lodge And that was like my main thought was you know, room and board, that's huge, yeah, yeah. And then I guess you're also like was there much money you could spend while you were there, or was it? No, no.

Len Cook:

Unless you, unless you were a smoker or a drinker, you couldn't really spend money Yeah.

Andrew Barany:

Right. So Yeah, i guess they got some things like they probably have some kind of little store there just with basics or Kind of Kind of Yeah.

Len Cook:

If you needed stuff, you. If you needed stuff, you brought in, or there's always flights out in the mass You could just ask the pilot to pick something up for you. Yeah, if you needed something.

Andrew Barany:

Yeah, and then I guess the guests would obviously bring a lot of whatever they needed.

Len Cook:

They usually show up with suitcases full of clothes and stuff like that. Like you know, some of them brought some kitchen gear. They didn't really bring food or anything with them.

Andrew Barany:

No, but like their smokes or things.

Len Cook:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Andrew Barany:

Yeah, that would make sense. I know, like some other lodges they have like little convenience stores kind of thing, or you know, in Mexico they the little villa we're staying at had like their own little thing there. So that's kind of what I was imagining.

Len Cook:

Yeah, there was actually one of the other lodges ad like a little, a little store, nice, you could buy, you know, stuff in it Like Maui Jam Son Ra, yeah, all the stuff that you're like. Huh, could I spend my money on this?

Andrew Barany:

Was there animosity between the two lodges or was it pretty like, hey guys, let's go and take them?

Len Cook:

Do them around by the same company. Oh okay, so there's so Langara fishing, langara fishing, langer Island Lodge, same company, or same parent company. And then West Coast Fishing Club was on the island too, yeah, up at Langara. So there were the three, and then there were some other boats. So no, i think everybody, everybody pretty much got along.

Andrew Barany:

Yeah, no, that's good. Yeah, well, you must have a few stories, so you don't. I won't put you on the spot right now, but if you have anything that comes to mind I would love to hear it, because I bet there's a couple. But yeah, that's like that's a pretty cool journey out there.

Andrew Barany:

I definitely, like I said, when I was out fishing commercial fishing I just like I was like that's where I want to be guiding. That's when, like the first, like blip in my brain, being like you could guide one day, kind of appeared. And I love the education side of the fishing, like catching fish is cool and helping people get that experience. But I love when someone like at the end of the day they're like wow, i learned so much. I'm like, yes, and then I get, i get to learn as well, because it's just watching the water every day or seeing people do things that I wouldn't do, because I know you know air quotes, no, better not to do that. Or, like you know, sometimes people will do weird stripping and I'll be like that worked and then I'll try it one day and I'll be like, oh, it works, yeah, yeah.

Len Cook:

So, yeah, i tend to catch fish when I'm not paying attention to what I'm doing.

Andrew Barany:

Yeah.

Len Cook:

Especially in the lakes, like if I'm fishing a lake, i'll be like I'll just stick my neck around and bounce each other, stick the rod in the rod holder and go over and barbecue up lunch. My reticulum is like ah.

Andrew Barany:

Things are happening, oh crap. Yeah, it's so interesting Like I always joke around saying that like, yeah, the fish like are watching us and they know we're not paying attention and that's why they hit. I know it's happened enough times where someone's like leaving their rod in front of the raft and like the flies just doing its thing and they go to light a cigarette or like get something out of their bag or something, and all of a sudden there's like a big fish on and they're like whoa, how did that happen? And I'm like, you know, if I was the fish, I'd just be like sitting there watching this fly, like just bouncing in the current, you know, you'd just be like almost mad, like why is that thing just sitting there?

Andrew Barany:

But, yeah, not paying attention sometimes can be the best thing you can do, or just leave alone, yeah, or a good way to lose the rod. Yeah, that's true too. I think also like it's calmed me down on fishing. Like when I started guiding, i started being more relaxed on the river and moving more like patient. So like fishing my casts longer, letting them sit there for like 10, 20 seconds, versus just like you know, cast out it's done its drift and just ripping it back in And I've definitely noticed like an increase on the fish on the hang.

Len Cook:

Oh, absolutely I can when I'm still at fishing. I think probably 50% of the fish that I hook are on the hang.

Andrew Barany:

They're hard to land, though They're either hard to get the hook set properly. Yes, yes, i've experienced that this year, this past season Strip set them.

Len Cook:

Pretend you're fishing tarp and it's strip set. Is that the key? That's what I do.

Andrew Barany:

Yeah, okay, yeah.

Len Cook:

Because I definitely. It sometimes works and it sometimes blows the fly.

Andrew Barany:

But yeah, i don't know. Like I, there's multiple. I hooked multiple steelhead this year. I had the most successful non-successful steelhead season this year Did not land one, hooked five. I think one was mid run and the rest were all on the hang and they were all like leaving it there for like over 10 seconds. So now I'm going to next season. try strip setting.

Len Cook:

And as well.

Andrew Barany:

Yeah, i don't know, and like they all just ran right at me, so it wasn't even like me like pulling the, you know, like one of them, the most memorable one. I was sitting there and I like it was kind of end of the day and I was like, ah, it's weird. I like kind of gave up mentally And then I was like, wow, that was a really good drift. And then, like I really dug down deep in that, in that scene, and then I kind of was looking around and I was like, and it's, you know, it's a really beautiful day today, like this is, this is nice. And then I like felt this like tug looked at my rod, looked at my rod tip and I was watching it. And then it just like did like two nice little tugs again And I was like, oh my God, this is ridiculous.

Andrew Barany:

So I like I talked to myself through it in my head. I was like, okay, lift your rods slowly, get a little tension, and then just hold that for a second and see. And then, like did that, and then one more tug. And then I was like, okay, and then he just started running out a little bit and then just came straight at me and somehow I ended up hooking up onto a rock And so I was like I ran back stripping as much as I could. And then I was like, oh my God, oh my ah, my friend's like running for his life with the net, like I'm coming like from like quite a distance and he's just like booking it. He almost falls and like does the whole like flailing arm thing. And then he gets to me and he's like is it a fish? And I was like it was a fish. Yeah.

Len Cook:

So we've been there.

Andrew Barany:

Yeah, but now I know that one spot. I never fished it before. I fished a lot more water too that, like most people, would not fish with a spay And I was definitely like going outside of like my comfort zone or what I traditionally was doing. And so it's definitely it was cool to at least get those, those tugs. at least knowing you kind of are doing something right is nice.

Len Cook:

Yeah, oh, absolutely Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's interesting. I got into all the colors and all that stuff for steelhead and then I know one guy who basically fishing the red all he fishes red. But there's some rivers that fish like black and blue in my mind, like you know, and little black and blue hobo spay with a couple of eyes on it And I started getting into fishing a lot more traditional flies. Well, traditional in a way, like I fish on cross specials quite a bit and flies like that, not fancy Atlantic salmon flies. Okay, the Amquas seemed to work really, really well for me. I tie them on a shank sometimes, or sometimes I'll just tie them on an aim. Yeah, they're pretty cool little flies Yeah.

Andrew Barany:

I was definitely messing, like the last year. I had a really good tying season in terms of making things more sparse, but I kind of went maybe a little too far on the sparse in a sense, and so this year I kind of balanced it out. But then I got into more like the classics no idea the names of them. I really just like did freestyle classics, which most of you know like very hardcore classic tires would probably be like that's, you know. But whatever, i don't really follow patterns all that often, to be honest. And yeah, and they did, they got me several fish hooked, at least not landed, but yeah, it's. I think the confidence thing is ridiculous. Have you I'm assuming you've noticed that too that when you have confidence on something, it's like crazy how much you know you could fish something very well, but if you don't have confidence in it, you either give up too fast or you just like I don't know.

Len Cook:

Yeah, yeah. So the confidence fly for trout up here was a little size, 10 or 12 mayfly spin or mayfly cripple, and I used to fish it. Like I looked at the quagly cripple and a couple of bunch of cripple patterns and I kind of didn't have the material to tie it exactly the same way they had. Can't be bothered to make them that fancy. So I just lift them up and yeah, they were. I slayed with those things And then I just quit using them, like okay, well, i'll try something new. So like when a Donnie flies the, his black spinner and mayfly spinner, that thing is deadly. It's an absolutely deadly fly. Pretty true, it would slay on the count.

Andrew Barany:

And yeah, I don't know who Donnie is in that book.

Len Cook:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, so that black, that black spinner that ties is pretty, pretty phenomenal.

Andrew Barany:

Yeah, do you find there's a big difference in fishing like cripple style versus like fully emerged flies? Not?

Len Cook:

not really. I fish them exactly the same. I just put floating to like a slightly different spot on the, on the cripple. Okay, i'll fit all run them through the run the same way. Yeah, i do find that I'll get more fish at the end of my swing with the cripple than I do with a traditional dry fly. These traditional dry flies, underwater by then generally, are just about to be the cripple, at least sitting up a bit. You can tie them on the cling camera hooks. They sit, they, they ride down a bit in the butt. So we put floating on the on the, on the back all, and they sit down. they kind of almost wait, yeah, and I found that that was working really, really well for me. And then I just I don't know, i just stopped fishing them like I'm gonna try something else. Yeah, like my dad's go-to pattern was an out there cat is all he fished for years And he had a whole great big box.

Andrew Barany:

Jordan any kind of hatch, even like mayfly hatches, and all that. He just fished. He fished them all the time. Yeah, it is pretty funny. That is funny, hey, when you back to the confidence thing, when you got the confidence with something.

Andrew Barany:

It's hard when you're like first starting out and you don't have any confidence in anything. You know maybe not your skills, maybe not your fishing technique or your drifting technique, or you know the flies you have, but then you start to get that those little confidence thing but kind of like what you were saying, with what you do, like, okay, i know that works. I'm switching it now to something that I haven't tried yet. That's been another kind of big thing in the last two years where I'm like, okay, i know these flies will work, why try this? You know whether it's completely different or similar.

Andrew Barany:

But yeah, i've always had this theory that every fly we tie will catch fish. But when You know, no matter how ugly it is, how perfect it is, like you know, i've multiple times I've tied up like weird, weird things, sat in my box for like a year or two and then gone out to the river one day, couldn't catch a single fish and then been like, well, what about this? And then, all of a sudden, i'm getting fish and I'm like today's the day, i guess. Yeah, yeah, what's the still water game out in your area? Pretty good, yeah, pretty good, is it? what kind of trout are in there? Is it stocked out of soon?

Len Cook:

A lot of lakes are stocked up, So like dragon lakes, an hour and 15 from my house Down in Quinnell. There, Yeah And there's, you know there's. There's big fish in there We got. The biggest I got this year was 23 and a half inch.

Andrew Barany:

Nice, that's a solid fish.

Len Cook:

Yeah, yeah, and there's some. you know there's still 10 pound fish in that lake. There's a ton of other little lakes that I won't name that are in the north, in the caribou, in the north. So there's somewhere on Prince George and you can go out there and average 18 inch trout all day long And they're within an hour in my house, 45 minutes. And there's some others that are a little bit farther south, down in the caribou, and you know the fish are jerks, that's how I put it. They're, they're huge And sometimes the lake hates it, sometimes the lake loves it. Yeah, and I've gone. I've gone to that. You know some of those lakes in the past and I had the wrong color green piranha.

Andrew Barany:

Shame on you, not even bidding. Yeah, shame on you.

Len Cook:

Fishing, right beside someone fishing same depth, slightly different green, and he's catching a fish and I'm like what is going on? Yeah? And then he's like try one of these that I put his fly on, flip it out there and boom Instantly.

Andrew Barany:

Yeah, yeah Would that be. Panask, panask or.

Len Cook:

Blackwater, blackwater, and they're talking a lot of horseflies now I've never even heard of that one. So the horsefly river flows And I'm going to get it wrong. I'm not sure what lake it actually flows at it, but at the post-sliper rivers in the caribou and the fish in there are fish eaters. So they're toothy buggers and they've got a yellow hue to them and they grow fast and they're strong, like if you're on dragon and your indicator goes down and you're real screaming. It's like, well, i got a horsefly And it's just like it's gone.

Andrew Barany:

Horsefly Actually now. I kind of I think I've heard of this before but my brain didn't really cue in because the fish eaters that part kind of jogged my memory a little bit.

Len Cook:

They put them in dragon and trying to pull the goldfish population. You get someone who released a bunch of goldfish in the dragon lake which was impacting everything out, so they put horsefly strain rainbows in there and they smash them And in the fall we fish horse. We fished a goldfish pattern. I don't fish in too much in the spring, but you get stripping goldfish pattern in the fall and it's just like That is comical, so like. It's pretty amazing.

Andrew Barany:

What do you? I just want to see one of those flies tied up now, goldfish pattern. I would Yeah, that would be like if I was heading out there and I called you and was like what flies do I need? And you're like, well, dude, better have your goldfish pattern. So I'd be like ha, ha, ha. And then I'd show up and you'd be like dude, where's your goldfish patterns? And I'd be like what do you mean? Like what are you talking about? I'd be choked. I'd be like I need some of yours now.

Len Cook:

Yeah, they're not like super. The thing is like the fish in there are super gold. It's weird, the goldfish are kind of like a brownie color. Yeah, it's just like a brownie big-eyed man.

Andrew Barany:

Okay, i wonder if that's due to the food that they're eating or their environment to channel? Yeah, probably I thought goldfish can grow like quite large.

Len Cook:

There's some koi in there too. Someone's stuck koi as well, so there's like goldfish, wow Yeah.

Andrew Barany:

That's interesting. People are wiling out there. They're like I'm done with these fish. There you go like Yeah, it happens a lot.

Len Cook:

There's smallmouth bass in the Quinnell River. Someone decided that they would dump some in there and see what happened, and they're below the suited treatment plant, the effluent plant from the pulp mills and suited treatment plants. So the water's warm, so they're happy.

Andrew Barany:

Yeah, i feel like I know one time I found a turtle It's a random story Found a turtle, had it for a bit. My mom was like we're not having this turtle. I don't know why she was against it, but she was and she owned the house, so her rules. But she was planning on just going to a lake and dropping it off. When we were inside a pet store And she was asking them do you take turtles? Because I was just going to drop it at the lake And the guy was like whoa, that's a huge fine if you get caught doing that. Yeah, so yeah, it's a bit of a risky thing, but to someone that really doesn't think about that kind of stuff in any form, it would seem like it would be fine, right? You're like oh, it's a fish water, fish water, oh good, yeah, i wonder, like, how did they impact the goldfish? mostly I'm talking about, how did they impact the system?

Len Cook:

From what I understand, they just they eat everything. So they're out competing the trout for the food sources. Yeah, they just go down. They're going on the shoulder to cover all the caronomids, all the damsels and dragons and scuds. But I think putting the horseflies in there may have actually made a difference, because you're catching fewer goldfish and you're catching some really big trout again.

Andrew Barany:

Okay, that was something I didn't even think about. So you're sitting there fishing for trout. You see your bobber go down, you set and you got this little goldfish on. Or goldfish Or big goldfish Or big goldfish. Yeah, that's hilarious. What's a goldfish fight like? Is this a new fish that we should be targeting?

Len Cook:

No, no, it's kind of a slug. There's a bit of like head shaking and swimming and you're like what the hell have? I thought That is so funny.

Andrew Barany:

Yeah, i guess that's almost like a perch, like I've caught perch out here and same kind of thing, same thing Doesn't do much. No, no, yeah, that's really funny. I didn't even think of that aspect.

Len Cook:

Yeah, i fish. I fish the waters a lot when the rivers are high or closed, so I'll fish the lakes then and then once the rivers are in shape and the water temps are up, then I just go and fish the rivers. If my water temps up I mean water temps up in the lake, not up in the rivers, but up to a point where there's hatches Yeah, i guess I should say.

Andrew Barany:

What's your? what's the seasons like? Do you guys get ice on your lakes up there? I feel?

Len Cook:

like you would. Yeah, okay, yeah, a couple of feet, a couple of feet. So we depends on the lake. This year, this year's season was really really winter season was really long. Most lakes weren't ice free until almost May. I was in the caribou, the South caribou the May long weekend. The lake I was fishing had just started to turn. It's like well, that's you know, a month behind where it usually is.

Andrew Barany:

Yeah, yeah.

Len Cook:

No, we get a lot of ice.

Andrew Barany:

Yeah, and the turnover last, like I don't know. I feel like it would be, because I know we experienced it out here, but it's I don't find it's as intense, i guess. So usually I feel like it's like a couple of days where it's off. It can be a couple of days here too.

Len Cook:

Okay, depends on the lake. Depends on how much wind there is, all right. Depends on how fast it warms. Yeah, well, so it's, you know, if there's, if there's hot, if it gets hot and it's windy and the lake will mix faster generally. At least that's that's what I understand. I could be wrong, but that's that's sort of my experience. Yeah, yeah, i'm going to. I think I'm going to hit a couple of lakes on Friday. I've got the day off, it's my flex day, so I think I'm thinking it would be my last ticket to catch the lakes for this year. And then Blackwater River opens up on the 15th of June, so Father's Day weekend, so I'm going to scoot down there.

Andrew Barany:

So it sounds like, though, you can basically fish all year round somewhere, or?

Len Cook:

something. If you want to ice fish, you can.

Andrew Barany:

Okay, so there's like for the winter? do the rivers close down then, Or?

Len Cook:

are they just too hot Or they're frozen, or they're frozen, yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, we get. We get weeks of minus. Well, this year we I think we had probably all total we had about three or four weeks of minus 30 or below. Yeah, so you know.

Andrew Barany:

Yeah, i've been on the island too long, i forget that it gets colder than minus five. Yeah, minus 30. I've been in Alberta for ice fishing and been in a minus 30. And I would feel like minus 30 in BC would be much worse.

Len Cook:

It's pretty dry here. It does. Okay, it's pretty dry in Prince George and the north. Yeah, it's not too bad. It's kind of like Alberta cold. Yeah, yeah.

Andrew Barany:

It's very similar, it's like obviously it's different still, but like minus 30 in Alberta is in a sense manageable, whereas like minus 10 on this island is like horrible, yeah, is brutal, with the amount of moisture, like it penetrates instantly like your bones are cold, whereas Alberta if you just, yeah, if you're in Alberta, you and have the proper, you know gear as well. Most people have the proper gear out there, but, yeah, it's intense out here when it's minus and the minuses, but we still can fish all year round, which?

Len Cook:

yeah, i kind of miss that. If I want to fish, if I want to fish in the winter, i got to drive six hours west. Wow, yeah, yeah. And then sometimes this winter it was frozen So it's like, oh well, i guess I'm not fishing there.

Andrew Barany:

Yeah, yeah So you pretty much fish, like all of BC in a sense. Like I know, you said who it means, like you've been all over the place.

Len Cook:

Yeah, i fished in the boat a lot summer too. How was that? It was okay. It was still super high when I was there. I was there in July and the runoff was a bit late, so it was pretty high and pretty dirty. Okay, i hooked a brown, yeah, lost it. I only had a day. Yeah, sure enough. Yeah, this summer I don't, i don't think I'm going down this summer. I'm gonna be on HydeGry with my kids in August this year. Do some fishing over there in August and then, yeah, just local stuff really. Then, the fall coming, i'll go and chase some steelhead out west.

Andrew Barany:

Yeah, if you don't mind me asking how old are your kids?

Len Cook:

They're nine. Nine, yeah, yeah, yeah, nine-year-old twins, yeah, one of each. One boy, one girl, one boy, one girl. Yeah, my son's into fly fishing, my daughter does not. I got rods, they're right there, but my daughter, my daughter, is just not into fly fishing, my son is. I've had him out twice in the last week. I had him out Thursday and out Saturday And he did really well He's running fast Getting more into it now.

Len Cook:

I tried to get them into it when they were really young But didn't really work out. Am I to my favor? Yeah, They like coming out in the boat ripping around the lake.

Andrew Barany:

Yeah, at nine years old. is it like your full day of fishing or is it like kids full day of fishing?

Len Cook:

It's four hours max. Yeah, at least in the river anyway. Yeah, my son on Saturday fished for probably two hours. Things like that. I'm bored, i go look for frogs. I'm like, okay, stay where I can see it. You know he's wandering around the door and looking for frogs and stuff And then I hooked a nice rain. When he's like suddenly interested, coming back, grabs his rod Yeah, try to fly out there.

Andrew Barany:

Yeah, i've talked to a few people about getting the kids into fishing. It's kind of like prime time for fishing, so that they catch more and they stay focused on it, and then, when it's not prime time, just kind of almost leave it alone. So they get more excited when it happens and then build them into it, versus take them out on a wet, cold, rainy day that no one catches anything.

Len Cook:

Exactly Yeah, don't take them steelhead fishing.

Andrew Barany:

Don't take them steelhead fishing, because either they'll catch their first steelhead on their first cast something ridiculous Or, yeah, no fish and they'll never want to go fishing again. Exactly, yeah, have you done chronomids with him?

Len Cook:

Yeah, last year on Dragon Lake we fished a bunch. We fished a chronometer for a day, and I guess the year before too, and yeah, my son was getting into it, yeah, but again he was kind of a hard. I got a big 18 foot power drifter jet sled, so he's like talking around the boat.

Andrew Barany:

Yeah, yeah, it's definitely something that I've like, you know, without pushing my son into it. I've pushed my son into it as much as possible. I put like wheels in his hand when he was one and have him practice flying cast. He's actually saving up right now for his the Echo, Gecko, nice, the kids rod, so he needs three.

Len Cook:

So they're actually. They're really nice. They got one sitting right here. Yeah, i replaced it with another rod for my son, but another rod's two steps. So I'm gonna have to find something in the middle because the gecko is too soft for him at nine. He's when he's cast, he's so strong, he's just like any typical boy at nine years old. Doesn't have that self-control to like not try and chill the rod, get the fly out there. So I need something that's halfway between a gecko and the other rod at bottom.

Andrew Barany:

So yeah, i've only really heard like pretty good reviews for the Echo Gecko, especially for like just beginning young kids.

Len Cook:

They're actually pretty cool rods. You can cast a lot. If you put a five-weight line on that thing, they bomb. Really You'd be surprised. But Brian had to cast you know, 20 feet or 15 feet of a fluoro with an indicator out on the lake with that thing. It's just not fun at all.

Andrew Barany:

Yeah, i can imagine if it's soft rod, definitely Yeah.

Len Cook:

And there's, it won't load Like you try and load it, and then just candy canes back over itself. It's just like okay.

Andrew Barany:

You might as well just throw the rod and have the rod pull the line out for you.

Len Cook:

Pretty much, but for creeps and stuff like. I've actually fished in on creeps because I thought it was kind of cool And I'm like, oh, this is a pretty, rather little rod.

Andrew Barany:

I feel like that would be a good dry fly rod then, or at least for, like, the fight aspect. It is, yeah, trying to get the hook to set.

Len Cook:

Okay With adult strength, if that makes sense. Yeah, you're kind of like you. Just again, you candy cane, the rod trying to. You're like, okay, I can't, you almost have to do a strip set and a drop set at the same time. Yeah, try and get the thing to hook up, but Yeah, no, that's super cool. They're pretty cool rods. I got the. Yeah, he's got the. He gets the four or five.

Andrew Barany:

I've also heard they're slightly indestructible within reason.

Len Cook:

They're definitely indestructible. It's been slammed in the tailgate in my forerunner More than once. Wow, not like slam, slam closed, and it just. These are so soft, they just bend, that's hilarious.

Andrew Barany:

Yeah Well, no, he's a we. whenever we go into Rawinson's, he, um, he like walks, like he'll like wave at whoever's at the desk. I'll be like say hi. And then he'll like, without looking, just like put his arm up and then walk straight to the box. And he's like, can we open it? And I'm like yeah. And then like he's like, are we getting it today? And I'm like no, you're still saving up. I mean saving up for him. is waiting for dad to give him change. Yeah, um, and you know, and sometimes they'll get him to do little tasks and be like here's a dollar for your rod and he'll grab that and you know, go put it in. But I kind of figured that, you know, i think it's like 250 bucks or something. So I was like you know, a dollar here and there by the time. now he's like so interested in it, um, that by the time he actually has it he'll probably have at least a little bit more of a tension spend.

Len Cook:

Yeah, yeah.

Andrew Barany:

The little kids practice. One, he's had one of those for like a bottom. Two, he's one broke because I drove over it and uh, but he was like casting fairly good, kind of from the get go, and I don't just like sit behind him and kind of practice. So, yeah, he hasn't really done like he'll, he'll grab it now and kind of twirl it around, but I just let him play with it And so, yeah, nice, yeah, i think that will be fun. I have the same kind of dream as you had me and the kid on the river, yeah.

Len Cook:

No, i'm, i'm trying to get my. I think my daughter will come around at some point and she'll get into it. Yeah, a little bit more like she's into the outdoors, she's, he's into all that stuff. She's just not into. She's like it's boring. Yeah, but it's once you start catching fish, it's not.

Andrew Barany:

Yeah, yeah, the I think it was like me thinking about it It, you know, almost like doing more casting, not at the river, getting them honed in on that. That's kind of my plan with my son is to like do a lot of casting prior to ever actually going out, so that he's good at casting or at least is capable of getting it out there at distance and then starting to take them out on like really good days or like really good times beyond the water. But I'm going to probably keep my son off of Euro for a bit. So once he's like you know catching fish and he's like I do like this, and I'll be like Hey, are you ready for this, you know? and and then get him going.

Andrew Barany:

I did that with a well, soon to be wife, i guess. I just like been working with like dry lines and like dry flies and stuff like that, because I think there's an importance to that. Like we just start Euroing, why would you go do anything else kind of deal? Well, exactly, yeah, it's even hard for me if I have a Euro rod and you know next to me and I'm not catching fish, i know what I'm going to switch to.

Len Cook:

Absolutely Yeah. Yeah, like Saturday for me was or Saturday was dry flies all day Been fishing them. Yesterday was nymphs the whole day. Yeah, well, there's no hatch, right, so if there's a hatch I'm not going to fish in them. Yeah, generally, if there's no nymphs, there's no hatch. It'll be like I'll try dry fly first, just about every time, yeah, and if it nothing, you know, i'll try a couple different drives. Why is nothing comes up? It's like, okay, let's chuck in a pet there running in through.

Andrew Barany:

Yeah Well, i definitely have taken up some of your time, which I really appreciate, but I was curious if any any memories came up of some stories.

Len Cook:

No, if not, it's all good, i don't really have any like I've got, I've got a bunch, but they're all kind of Yeah.

Andrew Barany:

Yeah, fair enough. Sometimes, like I know that question can kind of be like it's tough. I mean, even when I think about stories for man, it's usually more of the funny ones where, like it doesn't really involve catching a fish. That pop into my head more versus like an actual fishing experience. But it's always worth the shaw in the dark.

Len Cook:

No for sure. Yeah, i think I think really like the only I don't really really memory here, fishing, fishing like Vancouver Island, west Coast tiny streams for for summer and steelhead, those are those are kind of my favorite memories from the island, Yeah, and then and then up here, just like amazing, like 30 fish days on drive-flies And that happens all the time in this time of year like late, well, beginning of June to probably second week of July. You can go out any day to the local stream at 330, fish 330 until dark, which is 1030 up here, like it's not dark until 1030, 1045 at night, and you will catch fishing and time time right there I love that.

Andrew Barany:

You'll have a, you'll have a sore back. Yeah, i'm heading to the Kootenays for, i guess, like a month and a half, almost two months, for guiding. I was told there, like leave your Euro rods at home. I don't even want to see that out here. It's like, oh, it's like this is dry fly territory.

Andrew Barany:

I was like okay, i'm down, i'm fine with that, That's cool. These are West Kootenays, I'll be on the St Mary's, oh nice, okay, yeah, so I haven't, i've driven through those areas, but never not in a fishing mindset at it by any means. So, yeah, it's just, you know, i'm sure you kind of experienced it when you're on the island. Sometimes you kind of get trapped here where you don't really leave or you know doing like a four hour drive but you're needing to get on the ferry. It gets very costly. So, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well then I definitely appreciate your time and very thankful for your sharing. I just thought it would be really cool to get some of that history out of you. So I really appreciate that. Yeah, yeah, well, it's nice to know it will keep in contact and, yeah, appreciate it.

Len Cook:

Sounds good.

Andrew Barany:

All right, you have yourself a good night and I'll talk to you later.

Len Cook:

Sounds good.

Intro/Out:

Thank you for listening to dead drifter society. Make sure you subscribe so you don't miss any future episodes. In the meantime, keep up with the show and get to know Andrew on Instagram at dead drifter society. Until next time.

Andrew Barany:

And there you have it. That was Len Cook. If you want to follow him along on Instagram, it's bc underscore trout guy. Just a super awesome individual And yeah, I really hope you enjoyed that episode. If there is anyone else you'd like to hear on the podcast, please shoot me a message over at dead drifter society on Instagram, Facebook or Gmail And I will see what I can do till next time. I'll catch you later.