Fly Fishing Odyssey: Mitchell Paisker’s Alaskan Adventures and Passionate Pursuits

What makes fly fishing in Alaska a truly unique experience? Our good friend, Mitchell Paisker, joins us from Anchorage to share his insights into the exhilarating world of fly fishing. From his passion for swinging flies in Alaskan waters to the satisfaction of enticing quick reaction bites, Mitchell's stories bring this dynamic sport to life. With discussions ranging from using large swing bugs to the artful patience of dry fly fishing, we explore the creative and ever-adaptive nature of this beloved pastime. 

We also delve into the technical aspects of fly fishing, from perfecting casting form with heavy reels to the nuances of fly patterns and rod weights. Discover how Mitchell adjusts his techniques for different fishing conditions, and how music can enhance the fishing experience. Our conversation takes us on an adventurous journey, featuring tales of family fishing trips, teaching patience through fishing lessons. Whether you're a seasoned angler or a curious beginner, there's something for everyone here, capturing the essence of fishing as both a personal and shared adventure.

Tune in for a celebration of the angler's spirit, as we recount unforgettable encounters with perfect fish and the joy of mastering drag techniques. Our episode is packed with practical tips, engaging stories, and a shared enthusiasm for the sport. With the warm winter weather in Alaska setting the scene, this episode promises laughter, learning, and a deep appreciation for the endless opportunities that fly fishing offers. Join us as we uncover the passion and versatility that make this sport so captivating.

• Instagram @mpaisker 

Chapters

• 0:00 Swinging Flies vs. Dry Flies
• 4:50 Choosing Between Dry Flies and Streamers
• 9:43 Perfecting Fly Swinging Techniques
• 24:30 Improving Casting Form Using Heavy Reels
• 32:04 Music on the River in Nature
• 42:32 Finding Hot Spots With UV Light
• 55:09 Steelhead Fishing Techniques and Strategies
• 58:51 Catching the Biggest Trout
• 1:04:31 Unforgettable Encounter With a Perfect Fish
• 1:09:38 Mastering Drag Technique for Fly Fishing
• 1:13:51 Adjusting Drag and Rod Angle Techniques
• 1:17:28 Effective Fish Fighting Techniques
• 1:21:31 Sharing Fly Fishing Experiences
• 1:26:14 Teaching Patience Through Fishing Lessons
• 1:30:16 Improving Boat Fishing Techniques
• 1:39:06 Planning a Patagonia Fishing Expedition
• 1:56:56 Transitioning Fishing Techniques and Seasons
• 2:02:06 Versatility in Fly Fishing Techniques
• 2:12:11 Embracing Versatility in Fly Fishing
• 2:26:17 Weather and Fishing in Alaska

Transcript

Mitch Paisker: 0:00

And like fought it for like I don't know eight minutes, whatever. And it popped off and he was like, ah, dude, it don't matter, like it it wasn't on the swing, it doesn't count. Like it was on the hang, like I like I want a real fish, you know. And I was like you, dude, Um yeah, but uh yeah. But like he was telling me he has a buddy who, like he will, his buddy will only skate dries for steelhead. That is the only way that he will fish. Steelhead is like he will skate a hundred days of the year and like might move five fish and get one grab and he he's happy, he's like plenty okay with that. Like he's at the point now where he's caught plenty of steelhead and he knows how to do it and he knows that he could do it on conventional like matters. But he will only skate a fly and it's like, dude, I'm like I'm all for doing it my way, but, like God, I need to catch a fish sometimes, dude. Like welcome to dead drifters society welcome back dead drifter.

Andrew Barany: 1:24

On this we sit down with Mitchell Paisker. He is a good buddy of mine. I've had him on quite a few times now he is up in Anchorage, alaska, so we definitely cover swinging flies, tying them and all the other shenanigans we get into. So I hope you enjoy and we live. Look at that at that.

Mitch Paisker: 1:47

What's up, buddy guy?

Andrew Barany: 1:49

yeah, man, how's it going?

Mitch Paisker: 1:51

oh pretty, not so bad. How are you man?

Andrew Barany: 1:54

I am doing great. I I've been tying some flies lately and hey, what with my family?

Mitch Paisker: 2:03

What have you been tying?

Andrew Barany: 2:05

What are you getting up to? Nasty big things.

Mitch Paisker: 2:08

Ooh, big old swing bugs yeah, big old swing bugs.

Andrew Barany: 2:22

That was one of the main things that actually a few people answered my story and wanted to hear more about swinging flies. I think it's tis the season, you know, like when, uh, when it's dry fly time, people want to hear about dry flies, and that's fair, because for me it's swinging time.

Mitch Paisker: 2:37

So I will. I will be completely honest with you.

Andrew Barany: 2:40

Uh huh.

Mitch Paisker: 2:41

Fuck a dry dude.

Andrew Barany: 2:43

You like the swing that much Eh.

Mitch Paisker: 2:48

No, I just don't like dry fly, like just just just, plain and simple. I'm not a dry guy like that's true, there's.

Mitch Paisker: 2:54

There's something about like, like yeah, I, I totally understand the appeal, I totally get it of like, oh, it's the visual take and all that. But like when, when you fish a dry and then a fish hits it, you have like three fish worth of like either a successful hookup or success or like hit and then it's like, oh, that dry is drowned, and then it's like soaking wet and like, no matter what float in or drying agent you put on it, like it's just, it's just always messed up forever. So I don't fish dries, unless they're, unless unless they're foam based, and then I'll, and then I'll fish them, then I'll fish and dry like also you don't like oh, like them breaking apart, yeah, like them breaking apart, and yeah, like them breaking apart.

Mitch Paisker: 3:44

And then also like, like I don't know, like they just get wet and then they sink and then they don't float, and then like, no matter how much you try to dry them off or whatever, like it just doesn't work. So it's just like why bother? You know, I feel like you got.

Mitch Paisker: 4:01

You know you tried dry fly a handful of times and you're like fuck that oh no, dude, like when I was in, when I lived in maine, dude, like there were some rivers where, like the best way to fish them was like dry droppers, and like man, I fished them hard that way and but uh, first of all there's nothing like fucking a big old meat whistle, but then also, it's just like I don't know, like it's just too much work to fish a dry and I guess, like, probably, like where I'm at in alaska, like I don't know, you can just get by so easily without ever having to put a dry on that. I don't care to worry about it.

Andrew Barany: 4:45

Probably yeah, I feel you.

Mitch Paisker: 4:50

I definitely like dries, but I prefer a tight line grab oh yeah, dude, like like you're telling me, like you're gonna try to sit there and tell me that like watching like an elk hair caddis float down river is even nearly as enjoyable as like swinging a like a streamer and then just having your rod perking or ripped out of your hand and not even having to set it, like you just stand there and just like maneuver your wrist a little bit to put tension on and that's the hook set, rather than like the full-on, like big old you know picturesque like yeah raising the line and all like, yeah, I get it, it's fun, but nah, dog, like, let me, let me swing a fly, let me strip a streamer and have like my rod and line ripped out of my hand.

Mitch Paisker: 5:45

That's where it's at.

Andrew Barany: 5:46

I would say that I in Dry Fly, my favorite is the actual cracking the code, especially on a tough day Okay, a perfect rift is not always easy like when you gotta like do some crazy men's, I get the satisfaction, yeah, yeah. And when you get like, especially where I go, it's like a slow take from these west slope cut throats um up in the kootenays where I guide, okay, and they're like slow motion to it, sometimes like in a you know a seven foot deep hole, all of a sudden you'll see a shadow and it'll like come up and grab it in faster water.

Mitch Paisker: 6:33

obviously you don't see as much but at the same time you put on a nice sink tip and you swing a bug through that real nice and you just see them like, like, what, like like the best is like watching them hold and then watching your fly get closer and then just watch them like crank their head and just like scoot over and like drift super nice over and just like suck it down and then watch them just like try to take off ah yep, the, the big flies, the big dry flies, like you were saying, foam bugs, those things you can like skate across, twitch them and do some shit and that's fun, yeah, but like you can guarantee I am going to catch a couple on this the dry fly and probably go subsurface.

Andrew Barany: 7:26

There is a kid he was 14 at the time, I guess he'd be 15 now and he was on my boat and he was from down south and we were fishing and they just weren't really coming for the dries and he just looked at me and he's like, well, if they ain't rising, we dive in I was like, I was like man, you got to make that a sticker, so I I am going to make a sticker of that soon enough yeah, I and I mean like, like, don't get me wrong.

Mitch Paisker: 7:57

I understand the appeal, I understand that, like, sometimes it calls for dries and sometimes you have to fish them that way. But, like you know, if, if I, if I have my choice at a fish I'm chucking, I'm chucking some big old meat whistle at them I don't know it's.

Andrew Barany: 8:15

It's just to me it's more enticing like I'll try the meat this that I'm holding in my hand, like what is that? That must be like five inches. That's a. That's what we call these things again. Um, intruders yeah, it's like a two-stage intruder and that is what I'm swinging this year because I've been really having fun tying it. That's kind of what I do and I don't. I don't get the same enjoyment of creating a dry fly as I do something to swing. Yeah, there's something about all the layers and then watching it move in the water like actually move and like flow, versus just on top, not not moving.

Andrew Barany: 9:05

So I agree, I agree there's a time and a place and I do enjoy it. But if I, you know, have success that way, or even if I didn't have success that way, you can guarantee, but I'm on a trout's bay this year. Me and my buddy have been talking about it a lot. We've been talking about it constantly. If money was endless, it would have already happened yeah, what, uh, what.

Mitch Paisker: 9:29

What weight are you swinging for trout spay?

Andrew Barany: 9:32

I'm going to go four weight because I already got a seven weight and, you know, a 20 plus inch trout on. That is still quite fun yeah.

Mitch Paisker: 9:41

So so I have a. I don't know if I've told you this story or not, but uh, buddy gave me a three-weight, dually reddington, dually three-weight um and that, I think, comes as like a 10 foot six rod or something like that, or 10 foot three rod, whatever, um. Through a series of fishing mishaps, that 10 whatever is now like a 9, 8 or like a 9, 10, right, so like it's a shorter rod, um, and uh, one day we were coming back from the river and he was playing marty robbins, mr shorty, so that rod is now dubbed mr shorty and like if you go on my like Reddington profile on the website, like you know where you, how you can like register rods, yeah, you can give them nicknames and I've like dubbed it Mr Shorty.

Mitch Paisker: 10:36

but dude, that thing fishing, like you know, swinging a, swinging that three way and you hit like an 18 inch fish. You're like Holy shit, dude, and it's so fun and like for what it is. You can like you can throw a decent size like bug on it, but like an 11 foot four weight. I have a Claymore 11 foot four weight. That's really slick, um, but man, like I don't know, I I feel like I swing fry patterns on that three weight because it's really easy to throw like a float tip with like a fry pattern or like a light sink tip with a fry pattern, um, but much else than that. Like you can throw a bigger bug and like a a you know T8, t11. But like it starts getting tough and like you're starting to like am I going to snap this rod kind of deal.

Andrew Barany: 11:35

But, yeah, I definitely like all of that. Like all of that, like the four weight. I guess the decision behind the four weight was, um, you know, a little bit more um for some of those bigger, uh, mini streamers that I like throwing, yep. But I also thinking I might go with a line that's um, at least it. I would want a sinking line of some sort, sink tip of some sort um, at least for my rivers. But I like fishing things fast, I like.

Mitch Paisker: 12:16

I like, you know, so like, slow swinging actually has its time but slow, dude, when you cast and the swing is like over 30 seconds long, yeah, you're just like oh, and you're sitting there the entire head.

Andrew Barany: 12:35

Then you're like ah, this is nice out here, yeah, but but for a small trout. I want to like, I want to make that bug dance down there yeah that and like just fishing like a faster swing.

Mitch Paisker: 12:47

It's like I mean, if you think about it logistically, they have less time to look at it and think about whether they want to eat it. So you fish it faster and they're like, oh shit, I gotta suck this thing down. And then they have, like it's you, you get a lot more of those like really quick reaction bites that are, like you know, pan out to super good.

Andrew Barany: 13:26

You know what I've kind of figured in the two years didn't land any of them, which is just sad. I caught steelhead in other ways dark side, not trying, but it just kind of happened. Yeah yeah, yeah, it never on the swing, um, but I got those 11 grabs so I was obviously doing something right. They just were all downstream so so so they were on like the hang. You're saying yeah, on the hang, and you know I'm sure a lot of people already know this but I learned things at my own pace and that's all cool with me.

Andrew Barany: 14:02

But when I first started I was doing more, I guess, larger profile flies and I would say like half and half was like in the river, so like mid swing or on the hang, but they were always way more aggressive and so like tying these kind of classic style flies that were a lot thinner body, a lot less material and super easy to cast. That's a great way to start. I would say, if you're just getting into swinging or if you're just having a hard time with your casting, it's like get good with a smaller fly, oh yeah, you know, and work your way up having a hard time with your casting. It's like get good with a smaller fly. Oh yeah, you know, and work your way up, but if you can't cast, you know, this intruder here is like five inches, but it doesn't take that much more to cast than like a regular. You know, bunny strip leech pattern well.

Mitch Paisker: 14:59

So, like what I figured and what I've started to like realize is that like just how much materials matter when you tie like a fly that you're going to spay, cast or switch cast, like those bunny leeches and, like you know, if you have a fly that has, like you know, a wrap of zonk on it or something like those look phenomenal in the water but, like man, when you go to cast them, they just like like, like try casting like a dalai lama on spay, it's hard as shit if you don't have like a heavy enough head and like a heavy enough rod. Like it's hard as shit because like they just hold so much water and the resistance in the water is so much. But like, yeah, if, if you tie with like those light feathers of, like you know, you get like dredge yeah ostrich and like like lighter hackles and uh, marabou's, yeah, like, like can they shed

Mitch Paisker: 16:03

water really easy. Synthetic materials, Dude. I started using what's it? Craft fur yeah, Like tying craft fur, dubbing loops. Holy shit, dude. Like I made a very, very, very large profile fly the other day and I took it to the river and I was like shooting lasers with it and like she got this craft, for it was just shedding water like crazy, and then you know it would have that profile in the water. But then the second it came out of water. It was just like like not dry obviously, but like it was just like you know yeah yeah, it was.

Mitch Paisker: 16:42

It was coming out of the water very easily and flying really easily too. So yeah.

Andrew Barany: 16:46

So, like fly development is definitely, you know, a big thing when it comes to, you know, ease of cast, and so that's where this, like this bigger profile, like you're saying. You know, I've I've gone in there. I like started with, you know, creating a bump and then ostrich or, sorry, a little bit of pull, um, arctic Fox, and then some ostrich and some, you know, but all of it was like just enough wraps, and even I pulled out pieces of the ostrich so that there wasn't so many you know, three or four stuck together, I'd pull out two.

Andrew Barany: 17:28

Yeah, um, you know, or whatever, and try to have it like one at one by one.

Mitch Paisker: 17:32

Yeah, that, and like creating that shoulder, like you're saying just like, does help it have such a larger profile in the water um you know, and then that shoulder, the, the next one that I learned inside of it.

Andrew Barany: 17:45

For the second shoulder, the bigger bump, I span deer hair so that's buoyant. But I didn't use a lot and I've done it where I put, you know, synthetic chenille wrap and then spun the deer hair and laid it over top of that to create an even bigger bump. But I found that was a little bit much and you can definitely tell when you're casting. So I haven't actually swung this bug, but just the way the deer hair is sitting, it's already facing back, it's it's more of a cone versus like a round circle. Gotcha, um, I'm thinking this will just be a lot smoother. But all I'm looking for is that like that back bump to be slightly smaller than the front one, then that way that flow, and then you know the proportions that was something.

Mitch Paisker: 18:38

It looks like a great fly. I'll give you that much.

Andrew Barany: 18:41

It looks like a great fly you know, and I try to I make the back bump out of like a UV chenille so like that just that just glows.

Mitch Paisker: 18:52

I can only imagine when something's like so do you you tie with wire or do you tie with string? Because I know some people who, like they'll tie their you know their swing bugs with string. Because I know some people who like they'll tie their, you know.

Andrew Barany: 19:05

So they're string, whatever it's called. Let me, I got a fresh pack here. Actually it's. It doesn't really say much um fire line trailer five yards, so it's like a waxy kind of thread so okay yeah, yeah, pretty well, it doesn't like.

Andrew Barany: 19:29

You know, obviously if you you bosh the cast, you're going to see something. Um, you'll see that hook flip back. But I've been, I've been working hard on my spay casting. Um, I've had the pleasure of fishing with a good buddy of mine a few times, um, dan dan tagger, which I've had on a great guy and he just was like man, just slow it down, like you got a good cast, you know relax yeah, that's like.

Mitch Paisker: 19:58

that's what my buddy always says is just like slow down your cast, because like there's times where I'll go to cast and I'll just like fold it on itself and stuff like that, and he's like you got to slow down. I'm like but I can't, like I can't. And then I slow down and then I'm like shooting real well and it's like yeah it waves, it comes in waves.

Andrew Barany: 20:17

Some days I show up and I'm like where's that, andrew? Yeah, the depth that we stand, you know, that has such an impact and I find there's one spot where the waters are close to my knees, or just above, like basically my kneecaps, is the like sweet zone, yep, um, or you know. And then there's actually one more that's like almost up to my crotch.

Mitch Paisker: 20:45

There's one sweet spot up to my crotch where it like I'm just forced into it, well so so what I've realized with that is like the higher water you're in, the higher you got to hold your hands, sure, and then that just like, like for bare minimum, that ends your cast at a higher, like higher off the water which helps it shoot. And then, like, you keep your elbows up and I think by keeping your elbows up you're kind of locked into keeping them tighter to your body so you're not like flared and moving more, like so I, yeah, there is that sweet spot of like higher water to like actually casting with better form, um, but yeah, like what I've, what I've learned is like the speed of the water. I've, I've learned more so this winter, or I guess I've started to realize it more as like realizing how much line you have to leave out of your head, like from the tip of your rod to like the end of your, uh, like the shooting head.

Andrew Barany: 21:53

Yeah, so I like it. You know, six inches for me is kind of a sweet zone. Yeah, I find I just because you have the instant control, where I've seen other people that don't always go in that much and have a great cast as well.

Mitch Paisker: 22:10

Yeah.

Andrew Barany: 22:11

There's a lot to improve on anyone's pretty much.

Mitch Paisker: 22:15

Yeah. So I found that there's one spot where we fish, where you're standing anywhere from just know just above the knee to like crotch deep, but it's like, dude, you can like, it's like a 45 second drift. It's a super slow drift, yeah. So in doing that, I have to leave what's it? I have to leave more line out of my rod. I have to leave, like you know, a foot and a half to get that proper shot, whereas if I'm in faster water I can tighten that up and I can use less of a line out of my rod with, like, a closer connection that I can like. I can shoot that a lot better. So I yeah, it's, it's like an ever-changing like distance.

Andrew Barany: 23:09

Yeah, I wonder if it's kind of, you know, because that extra little bit of slack by the time your rod's moving it's kind of like changing the angle of trajectory, I would assume I I pay attention now a lot and, yeah, slowing it down. Do you move your hips quite a bit, like not quite a bit, but like do you move with your whole thing or do you stand still and just move your arms?

Mitch Paisker: 23:34

I think a little bit of both is what I do.

Mitch Paisker: 23:37

I think I think that's a factor of how much liquor I have in me and how and how upset I might be Like if, like, if I'm having, if I am just out there struggle bussing man, my whole body's fucking moving. But like, and and that's just because I'm trying to put every ounce of my power into this cast and like, just try to get it up and off the water, especially if I'm using like a heavy sink tip in slow water, like I find that hard to cast, whereas like a heavy sink tip in fast water I find it easier to cast. But like, if, if I'm like, if I'm in a good head space and I'm like casting well and having a good time, I feel like, I'm like, I feel like I'm just arms. But then, yeah, as I like, as I get sloppier, I start like fucking, like turning my all my shoulders and like, like turning my torso and stuff.

Andrew Barany: 24:30

But so I've been kind of playing around with, um, the one is like relaxing my top wrist because I realized I was holding my rod firmly, thinking of like but but then, so now I kind of hold it with like a few fingers, like really my two fingers, that I'm holding pressure on my line, and I really loosen that up and then I just put all my focus into my rod, the bottom hand. Yeah, it's literally what I think about. So I'm like okay, and I like I can tell, I can, I know where the tip is. I'm watching the tip too. But I kind of just like I've started, just like, yeah, dominant, like forcing the body, dominating the bottom hand, yeah, I, that I mean that's obviously what you're supposed to do. But thinking back on it, I I'm like man, no, I've always been top dominant. I just so what that with?

Mitch Paisker: 25:30

the top what yeah? So like, yeah, you can muscle it and do good or you can use form and do really well too. But like, what real do you use when you like on your rod? What kind of real?

Andrew Barany: 25:44

do you have? Well, reel do you use when you like on your rod? What kind of reel do you have? Well, I have a click and paul um, yeah, it's a what is it?

Mitch Paisker: 25:54

kingpin cat dog okay so is it a fairly light reel? No, oh no, okay, it's heavy because because that that's what I've like found is so I used to have and I mean I still I still have it and I still use it occasionally. I have a, uh, uh, reddington rise the new, like the new reddington rise, that's like gold. I have that as one of my swing reels and when I'm using that I find I'm pushing a lot more top hand and I have to like focus on like actual form, whereas, uh, the other reels I use I have like a galvin t and then I also have a, uh, an orvis bat and kill disc spay and that bitch is heavy and that forces me like that's a really good counterweight. That forces me to like really slam that bottom hand to my belly button and like let that top hand and just kind of stay stationary so that's actually doing good.

Andrew Barany: 26:58

I like that because I well, I had the rise, reddington rise, and then I went to that heavier wheel and that's when I kind of noticed I was like, really just top, top hand heavy. So, that might have been kind of like you're saying you know, the bottom, the more weight kind of forces you in to the bottom, as I was starting to realize that my bottom was almost staying stationary. So now I'm just like trying to do the muscle memory for everything.

Mitch Paisker: 27:31

Um, you know, and yeah, I so I mean, like I found it yeah, like I found it that way that like the heavier reel asks more efficiently and kind of comes by nature a bit more, and like I mean my buddies have said the same like they use heavier reels, or like I mean not necessarily intentionally, but just like the bigger reels that you use tend to be heavier than, like you know, a super large arbor light reel or something like that. Um, and like a lot of those like spade disc reels and stuff like that are just like by nature heavier. Um, and and yeah, cause, like I've tried casting with like my four weight, I had a Lampson, lampson speedster on it and those things are like machined super light and I top handed the hell out of that thing until I got rid of that reel. So I, I don't know, I found that that was, you know, one of the major causes that was keeping me to use bad form and and top hand over bottom hand was just that light reel I can.

Andrew Barany: 28:40

I. I think that's what I was kind of experiencing there. I yeah, with the casting.

Andrew Barany: 28:54

You know there's this middle ground where it's like just relax and cast, like if you pay attention to what you're doing and just relax. That's like a lot of the times where it just you get in that flow. But I find it's been a while when I like all of a sudden I'm like, hmm, what am I doing? Like how can I improve this? And then I start thinking about it. Then the casting will like go down and I have to like degrade or not degrade myself, like kind of go back to to square one and kind of rein yourself in a little bit. Yeah, yeah, just like okay, because everything I've learned has just been like a slow, steady pace. I've done a couple of the like spay clades, but, um, it's not where I learned the best. Like I really need to be the one casting. Listening to it is like a theory, whereas me doing it and like being told to do something different and then trying it.

Mitch Paisker: 29:56

So you know, that's like my one buddy. He uh, he was telling me that like, if you're ever like I don't know if you do it, Um, but like a lot of times, especially when I'm fishing alone, I'll throw like an ear bud in and I'll like listen to music while I fish. Um, I probably do it more than I should, but nonetheless I still do it. But nonetheless I still do it and I'll listen to various stuff, whether it's metal or rap or EDM or whatever on the river.

Mitch Paisker: 30:30

But he was like, if you find yourself getting frustrated with your cast, totally stop, take a breather and then throw on some reggae or throw on some mellow, just kind of like good vibes, like slower Hayden stuff, and you do that man, and it's like, and just like almost instantly you're like oh shit, I was just like I was just trying to push too hard and I was trying too hard or whatever. And then, like I mean like the music kind of takes over a bit and just slows you down, and it's like I mean like the music kind of takes over a bit and just slows you down and it's like, I don't know, I find that it works out better that way.

Andrew Barany: 31:08

A slower rhythm. I like music on the river. I can't say I do it all that often because a lot of the times I'm with other people and I you know my music is rarely what other people want to listen to.

Andrew Barany: 31:20

Mind you what you said, I would be down with all that, so oh hell yeah you know, I I went down the river once and dry flied fish and streamer fished and to like some, like wealthy, um, I don't know, I guess dubstep mixed with whatever else they have in that playlist, but it was, uh, it was a lot of fun because, like, when I was streamer fishing, um, and I was in like a straight spot, I would just let the boat go and just pound the banks by myself and then, like, hop back onto the oars real quick, leave the streamer hanging out, take yeah, yeah, anchor up, smack, smack the stuff, get it, get it, get everything I could. And then it was, and it was fast pace. So the music I was listening to was fast pace, whereas you know, like you're saying something with a slower, like melody. You know, just relaxing, yeah, it would help you because, like, like, I like the music for the, I like the sound of the river and all that oh, yeah, yeah, exactly.

Mitch Paisker: 32:32

And, like, like I said, I definitely probably listen to music more than I should on the river because, like I mean, at the end of the day, we're out there to enjoy nature.

Andrew Barany: 32:41

I mean, yeah, I guess. So I mean, like at the end of the day, we're out there to enjoy nature and to, like you know, take in the scenery and all that stuff metal yeah, exactly

Mitch Paisker: 32:51

right. But uh, yeah, I mean like there's, there's definitely, like you know, a time and a place for it, and like when you're just you know, when you're out there to just kind of like kick it and have some fun, and like you know, nothing's too like, first of all, fishing's not that serious. No matter what you do, it's never that serious, right? So, like you know, if you're just out there having a good time, I feel like music has this time and place. I am not a fan of speakers on the river. If you, if you're in a boat, listen, not really a fan of you. Um, like, unless you're by yourself, like if you're the only person on the river and it's like you and your buddies in a boat, then like sure, fine, like let it be. But like, if I'm fishing the kenai and a boat comes down, it has like blaring music. Like nah, dog, I'm pounding sink, I'm pounding like, uh, like, split shot against your whole, like I'm not going to lie Like turn that shit down.

Mitch Paisker: 33:47

Oh yeah.

Andrew Barany: 33:48

I've done it, but I do turn it down. I've also done it.

Mitch Paisker: 33:52

Yeah, yeah, like I've also done it, but like You're respectful, and that's Exactly, exactly, cause, like I mean, like you said, not everybody's like a fan of every type of music, like a fan of every type of music, like no, and that's, you know, that's a big one.

Andrew Barany: 34:04

So usually if we are listening to music it's like whoever's in the front. So when I'm with people that can row, if it's, let's say, it's three people, we all can roll. Roll, yeah, roll, we can all row. Um, the rower rows for like, let's's say, 45 minutes an hour. You pick the time. Then he moves to the front, the front person moves to the back, the back person moves to rowing.

Andrew Barany: 34:33

Now it's easier to do that when you pull over, and usually when we pull over we go fish some holes or something and then we hop back on the raft in the next order and what that allows you is you get an hour up front and then an hour in the back and then an hour of rowing.

Andrew Barany: 34:49

So each person's actually like only rowing for a certain amount of you know yeah the least amount of time in the day to make it so that we all get down the river. Someone's going to come out on top and not needed to row as much, but either way, you know it switches it up. So I really like that. But I also really do like the on foot stuff, and on foot I would say I would probably be on headphones easier because then it's like you know, just me swinging and, like I said, there's a time and a place for everything.

Mitch Paisker: 35:25

Right, like you know, if you're, if like if you're on a super crowded river, like I'm not about that, like, first of all, I'm not about fishing on a super crowded river, and then also, like I would be a lot less keen on playing music on that river, but like if I'm on, like you know, a smaller, more, you know, less frequented river, with my buddies like, yeah sure, like, like, let it play a little bit, but you know, don't be blasting it. Like you know, keep it to a moderate level you know.

Andrew Barany: 35:57

So headbanger shit definitely crank that bitch up let's go yeah, yeah, turn turn up the bass like, adjust the eq of it turn the bass up, treble down, yeah well, and I don't even think, uh, I don't even think. You know, if you're going after the big guys, you don't want that bass pounding in the river, you know, unless that fish gets down. So it's hard to say, it's hard to say at the end of the day what's going to. You know, scare them off or not, but yeah, I wouldn't imagine super thumpy bass would be great for it yeah, I, yeah, I mean like they can feel vibrations and all that stuff, but like man, I don't know.

Andrew Barany: 36:44

So I've been. When I streamer fish I like to slow it down too, like when you're moving, bang, you know you're pounding the bank, all good, but being winter and stuff right now, and the few times I have swung flies I'll anchor up in spots I can't swing and I'll just swing my you know streamer rod through it. Yeah, and I've been, I've been just, you know, catching a lot of nice trout and then going to swing for seal head. Obviously, the flies I'm using are a little different and but I've been kind of playing around with some colors and some things and I've been getting grabs on these bigger flies that are kind of colorful and, you know, have this major hot spot in the back. So that's been cool. I got coho, I got, uh, a brown and a juvenile steelhead is, and we were pretty low, I was, I was by myself, I was pretty low down on the river and it was just bright chrome, you know, no spots under its lateral line, kind of just it fit the profile whether it was or not, but it.

Andrew Barany: 38:08

It took the fly. I talked about this on my last one. It like chewed on the fly and went for like a couple of runs and I kept thinking it was like going to explode soon, but then it turned out to not be a very big trout so, whereas I used to never get them on the big leech patterns, um, and I think that kind of just comes down to it was like a lot of material and it was pushing like almost too much water. Oh, okay.

Andrew Barany: 38:35

For the little fish, but I'm I am really excited for the springtime and swinging on the trout spay. Um, like you said, minnow patterns, yeah, alvin's whatever, yeah, little muddler minnows.

Mitch Paisker: 38:54

Yeah, I'll send you some patterns that I like super, super, super, super simple flies that I've tied that like produce really well, like the. This most recent fly that I've been tying I've caught. It's the only fly that I've fished. The last four times I've hit the water like I have. I've just not fished a different fly. Um, and it's like it's super simple. It a like a 26 mil shank from Aquafly. Um, uh, there's like, uh, intruder wire off the back to like a size two or size four owner and then there's like a couple of strands of um, oh shoot, it's not. Oh crap, what is it? It's not tinsel.

Mitch Paisker: 39:53

Um, the like, oh, I can't think of it right now but, it's like a couple strands of like longer, like barely flashy stuff, and then around the butt there's marabou that I like I cut it off of the stem. I cut it off of the stem and I like laid around real nice, and I like tie that in and like I don't tie a ton in, and then the body is a. It's a, it's by hairline, it's a predator wrap in like purple and copper. Yes, tie that through the body and then I put a shoulder of chenille on it.

Mitch Paisker: 40:42

Yeah, yep, kind of like that yeah and then, like a shoulder of chenille, dumbbell eyes, and then the wrap of the uh like marabou around the head of it, with with a little bit more in it that time.

Andrew Barany: 40:56

Uh, oh, hold up so it's okay, it looks like it's still recording you. It just came up saying it stopped recording for you.

Mitch Paisker: 41:05

I had a phone call came in that I canceled. My bad, I think. Okay, what?

Andrew Barany: 41:09

should I do Hold up? Let me read this. This is a new program. It's called Riverside. It basically records on my side and then it records on your side. Gotcha. And then at the end, when we end, end it. You have to just leave it till it's done. Uploading to me, okay, and that way I'm getting the clearest.

Mitch Paisker: 41:29

Yeah, internet free, okay, gotcha yeah, so I that was something that I didn't mess it up.

Andrew Barany: 41:35

That's my bad, sorry about that. No, I I don't think it did okay.

Mitch Paisker: 41:40

Um, it looks like it says recording for you, so we can we can continue as is but, but yeah, yeah, so I'm kind of excited, yeah, so like it's like marabou, like a light wrap of marabou, predator wrap and then more marabou on the front with a dumbbell and like the fly is like a super, super simple fly but it just fucking produces dude have you seen this uv that's what I'm talking about.

Andrew Barany: 42:09

It's that that that's it's literally exactly that. This is what I was showing you this, this stuff with shadow hairline uv polar chenille copper uv it it's like if you don't have it and there's like a little bit of green in there, yeah, dog yeah, dude the.

Andrew Barany: 42:29

You know I like I will. When I hit it with a uv light, when I hit shit with a uv light, that's half the time how I find what I'm using for my hot. No, not half the time. That's always how I'm finding what I want for a hot spot. If it doesn't glow under a uv light, it's not a hot spot to me. Yeah, yeah, I mean, I mean it makes sense.

Andrew Barany: 42:51

Yeah, it's. You know, I don't care if it's an agimus or if it's non. You know, even in a lake, I, I, I stand behind uv. I think those fish can see it. Whether it just looks a little bright, I don't know, it doesn't matter to me. They hit it, I'm happy. Oh, yeah, so that's where, like you know, that's pretty bright. But, like you can see, when I hit this fly, you know it's orange. Orange is one of my favorite hot spots. Yeah, I think orange is just a great hot spot color. I do use red and I'll use pink, but orange to me is just like, yeah, I don't know what they see, if it's just bright orange or if it's bright something else, but almost all my flies. So I imagine, like you know, that big fly comes to you broadside and they follow it through to that end, but where they're just staring at a hot orange but I mean the hot orange, that's, or I guess that's the hlb that.

Andrew Barany: 44:05

H-O-B baby. Yeah, so it's. You know, and you get infatuated with these flies after you tied them. I don't know about you, but I stroke the shit out of my flies. I'll be straight with you. I'm like, yeah, that's going to do it. You know what I mean.

Mitch Paisker: 44:24

I get heisty about it, you definitely play with them and fold them down and see how they would swim. What I've found out and what I do is, if I'm in a place with a high enough ceiling, I'll toss that fly up as high as possible and I'll watch it fall. I'm on it In theory, that air resistance is what it's going to look like in the water, right.

Andrew Barany: 44:50

I need a warehouse right now. Yeah, so like we could bring back original badminton, you know, with like feathered flies. We're sitting on a gold mine right now. I'm looking at a wall of feathers, my God.

Mitch Paisker: 45:06

So when you tie your swing bugs, are you tying weighted or not, or unweighted?

Andrew Barany: 45:12

so I am not at the level of fly tying where my flies will always sit upright. If they're on a shank, okay, all right. I know that they sit pretty good, but I throw a pretty small dumbbell eye on them. Now I do tie ones weightless and those ones I usually don't put eyes on as often, or if I do, I just give up on, like I just whatever. If it sits a little off to the side, that fish is harmed. Yeah, it got you know brain damage and that's whatever.

Mitch Paisker: 45:51

Fish is going to look at that thing and be like, hmm, that's really good, sorry I mean, like me, I, I, I don't know the last time that I've swung or fished an unweighted fly. Oh, I do, to be completely honest. Well, sorry, my fry patterns, my fry patterns are the only unweighted fly that I fish. Everything else in my box that I fish almost. Of course I'm going to be wrong if I look at my box, but like almost everything that I fly or or fish has a dumbbell or a bead on it, like all of my swing bugs, every single one of my swing bugs has a, has a dumbbell on it or a bead or a cone head. I like, I just straight up, do not swing an unweighted fly. I just don't like doing it. I just, I just do not like doing it. I feel like I'm not getting down deep enough.

Mitch Paisker: 46:49

I feel like I'm not getting like deep enough I feel like I'm not getting to the point where I want to go. I'm sure that I am, but I don't know. I just don't do it.

Andrew Barany: 46:58

Yeah, feel the confidence man, and that's half of it. So I have. I like angles. I talk about angles a lot when I'm guiding people.

Mitch Paisker: 47:10

It's all about the angle with the angle, baby.

Andrew Barany: 47:12

Well, we're anglers, we're utilizing angles to catch fish. You know, when you're at work and you're trying to get a promotion, you angle yourself into a better situation. I talk about angles a lot because I'm like so when I see my head at a certain angle and it's nice and everything's taunt and it's it's just got a nice gentle belly and it's just doing that nice swing in slowing it down, speeding it up, whatever. Um, I'm pretty confident with these like lightly weighted ones. But one thing I don't do a ton is I don't go and fish deep buckets. So a lot of the runs I'm fishing are relatively consistent. Um, but if I were to throw on a heavier fly, it would be for the beginning, which would be a good call on you know on on my part. So so like how, how deep are the rivers that?

Mitch Paisker: 48:14

you're fishing.

Andrew Barany: 48:17

The river I fish for steelhead is the Cowagin and it fluctuates so much. Uh, you know, for feet it went up. Oh man, I don't want to do mass right now.

Mitch Paisker: 48:33

I'm not doing it Like are you fishing? Are you fishing like buckets that are over your head, or are you? Fishing like.

Andrew Barany: 48:41

I would say in my mind, the fish that I'm trying to target the most are within the first 30, 40, 50 feet, so that far out swing is less and less. What I'm super worried about that's to get my depth. If I can get it to start digging at that point, slow the swing down enough it'll drop. Yeah, yeah, yeah, this one. You know so. But I assume that the fish I'm going to be presenting to are within that first 50 feet off the bank and I'm as long as the at the end of. If I could tick through a run and I've kept it pretty consistent where I feel pretty confident that I was getting to the right depths if I tick once or twice, I think I'm kind of in that strike zone. I don't necessarily know if I need to be dredging the bottom. I guess when they don't want to be moving a ton, that's when you'd want to really tickle their face. But I'm also this year is kind of more about the aggressive grab. So last two years I kind of got these like light chewy grabs and I'm kind of going for that bone. Oh shit, damn. Okay, calm down, I'm going that kind of grab and so that's kind of where the bigger flies. Um is coming in and, yeah, playing around with the speed is a thing I think, like if you're not playing around with the speed in different runs they fish different, like you need to, kind of, but as long as you're getting that kind of solid swing.

Andrew Barany: 50:30

You know, um, david federally, he said that if you cast and on your angle and you start your swing, your buddy should start where you are and walk by the time it gets to the bank. If your buddy's down where your fly is, that will be the right speed. And so I always kind of imagine that, yeah, what I'm singing, you know nothing, crazy fast and I I you know, if I leave it there too long at the end I'm going to snag on something. So I I think it's pretty good. Um, obviously, on that first 50 feet it's maybe not at the right depth, depending on the run and what, what's going on. So, but what do you do Like if you're, if you're, taking bottom a lot? Do you like to take bottom? Is that your thing?

Mitch Paisker: 51:25

Uh, yeah. So like I would, optimally when I'm swinging, I would like to, I would like to feel my my line or my fly tick bottom once or twice throughout my swing. Um, especially in the winter. Here I have found like fuck dude, the water gets cold and the air gets cold and like these fish do not want to move, you have to put your fly within like two inches of their face or they're not going to bite, right? So like these fish are hunkered down, glued to the bottom, you've got to be on the bottom Right or you got to be within. You know you know that four inches on the bottom right or you gotta be within. You know, you know that four inches at the bottom. At least that's what I assume and that's how I feel. Like you have to be right there on that fish.

Mitch Paisker: 52:19

So I like taking bottom because I just like getting down low, um, that, and like when you're down low and you're like going over all like the boulders, or like you know, if you're down low and there's like a little shallow depression and that fish is holding in that shallow depression, you know you're coming a lot closer to it than you know.

Mitch Paisker: 52:39

If you were fishing mid-column and then that fish would have to like pop up and move right, like granted. You know, in the summer you get more aggressive fish that are willing to move, so it's less necessary to be, you know, hitting bottom. You can throw on that like t, that like t8 or t11 instead of that t14. But overall, overall, my method of fishing, whether it's nymphing or streamer fishing or swinging, is get the fuck down, like my when I nymph, I nymph with like tungsten and split shot and I get the fuck down and I'm like I am dragging bottom the entire run until I either hook bottom or I hook fish. That's just how I fish and a lot of people fish contrary to that and they still catch fish and I still catch fish and like, everybody has their own style, you know.

Andrew Barany: 53:41

But I feel that man, I feel like maybe laziness can get a hold of me at times. I like fishing light stuff in terms of I don't like I mean T14 is doable for sure, but I I don't, uh, do that a ton with the bigger flies, because then it's just like the cast is that much more.

Mitch Paisker: 54:07

Um, but like, but. Like you get used to it, though, and like you do get used to it I want to get, uh, it's called the bucket.

Andrew Barany: 54:15

It's a sync tip that's, I guess, designed for hitting buckets. I really like. I don't like the uh, just like a straight t14 tip. Yep, I like the kind of integrated stuff, the imos, the like.

Mitch Paisker: 54:28

Two and a half, seven and a half, yep yeah, I really like that kind of same tip.

Andrew Barany: 54:34

I find casting them is just a way dreamier.

Mitch Paisker: 54:37

Yeah, well, I think the transition between float and sink is less aggressive than if you just go like your floating head to a sink head, like Like that, you know, intermediate line is like a transition of like completely floating to like, you know, neutrally buoyant to sinking, rather than like completely floating to like sinking, you know it. Just like it transitions that path a lot better.

Andrew Barany: 55:04

It does. And so, yeah, the bucket's the next one I'm going to try. I'm pretty like like, okay, to experiment, I I realize that I am planning on fishing for my whole life. So I've been kind of more like, okay, I'm fishing this fly and I'm going, you know. So that's, that's how I've been with my steelheading. Yeah, so sorry, my buddy's like blowing me up. I know it's not dinging anymore for you, but it's dinging for me. You're distracting me, but he's talking fishing, so it's very distracting. We're going fishing and, yeah, we're trying to figure out. I didn't really tell him that I was doing a podcast, but we were wanting to figure out where we're going to go.

Mitch Paisker: 55:52

Are you going for steel tomorrow?

Andrew Barany: 55:55

Um, not tomorrow, whatever day that I'm going, but not tomorrow, um Sunday, oh okay, gotcha, and yeah, we'd be. We'd be targeting steel. So that's where, if I got the, the bucket, I would at this higher water, I would. I think that's a good call, because the depth is definitely up there.

Mitch Paisker: 56:17

Um, you know, I guess in my mind just like, like run that as long as I'm run that two, two and a half, seven and a half t14 and like run a heavier fly and just like awesome aggressive upstream mend or grace line it down.

Mitch Paisker: 56:35

Like like if you keep that rod tip high and you keep all that running line off the water for like um, so like double spay, it shoot it straight across like double spay it shoot it straight across and then like either toss like a wicked upstream mend or like grease, line it and just let it sink for that first, like you know half of the drift, and then you can lay it down and like that'll usually get it right down yeah, and that's, that's exactly that's how I fish.

Andrew Barany: 57:04

Is the grease line? I've never heard of that way. I like that. Um, yeah, I definitely don't feel like I'm not getting down. I get grabs too, like I get I get pecs, I get all those things. So I I know I'm I'm within the the game yeah, of these fish um, but I like looking, you know, the psycho out of there. He's mystical. She, she's mystical.

Mitch Paisker: 57:30

Whoever it is.

Andrew Barany: 57:31

Yeah, when you, when you get that fish that hits different, like you know, sometimes on a streamer take, it can be a gentle take, it's usually more aggressive. Yeah, um, you know, nine times out of 10.

Mitch Paisker: 57:41

Yeah, well, I would say or like eight times out of 10. It's an aggressive take, yeah, but especially like winter bites man, like even swinging on winter bites. It's like am I hung on the bottom or is that a like dude? Yeah, I've had to set a probably more more times than I would like set into like a rock or a bottom because, like the fish are hitting so light where you're like, is that my line hanging up or not? And then you're just like, ah shit, like that's bottom, and then you got to like try to wiggle it off or whatever.

Andrew Barany: 58:20

And then, all of a sudden, the bottom explodes and starts running and you're like wait a minute.

Mitch Paisker: 58:25

So that was like that was like that, that big fish that I just hit like two weeks ago, um, that like big trout I was fishing and like I tried the I started on one side of the river and like wind was coming like directly at me so I was like trying all my might, trying to push this line, like push my cast into the wind and just like was not working. So I switched side, I like walked across this bridge, switched sides of the river and I like fluffed my like the head of my line out with some running line and like stripped a whole bunch of running line and like this wind it was, it was blowing like a stupid amount was coming like uh, like from my probably like my seven o'clock across my upstream shoulder, which was my left shoulder, and like shooting across to like two o'clock it was coming like seven to two and I like folded up a double spay and came around and just like shot my line and I had like off, I had like a good deal of running line out and I just went like I just washed my line, just like keep going and keep going and keep going and keep going and keep going and like you know, when you like cast real well and like my my buddy kind of coined this term it's like kind of toot the reel a little bit, where like you cast hard enough to, where, like it like pulls against the reel and like pulls a little bit of line out and like lets the drag go like right, like he calls it. Like he's like, oh, dude, I tooted the rod and so, like dude, I like folded a double spay, shot it across and like like hooted it and laid it down and like first, like four seconds of the drift, like just I was like man with the way that the current's going and the way and like the speed of the wind, like I'm I'm swinging a fast drift, so like if I were to hit a rock, like it would feel, it would like feel decently aggressive, right and man, like my fly just got like smoked and I was like I sat there for a second, like I did not immediately set. I sat there for a second and I was like, is that a, is that a, is that a rock? And I just like, like, I just like turn my body into it and then, like it just stayed stationary for a second and then it was just like a and then I just like looked up and like this fish is just cartwheeling upstream and I was like, and like it was. I hit it.

Mitch Paisker: 1:01:12

You know know, day break was 10 o'clock. I hit it at like 9, 37 or some shit right. So like I hit it before day break, so like not a ton of light, and the fish was like I don't know, I was probably three loops out and then my head and then my sink tip and then my fly, so the fish was all of 50 feet away, 50, 55 feet away from me probably, and it so like it was more of just like a dark mass that flipped up and I was like you know, that is the size of what a coho would be right now, because like we have the late run coho, we're in right now and they're spawning and like, and I was like, but a coho wouldn't jump and I was like, huh, well, I hope that's not a trout because, like in my mind I didn't want to know it was a trout if I was going to lose it. Right, because like by like just the foreign few, but like you know, by far it was a trout if I was going to lose it. Right, because, like by, like the far and few, but, like you know, by far it was the biggest trout that I've ever hit and like it starts running upstream and I, like I, like you know crank some line, I I, you know take some line in on it and it takes another run on me and then, like, take some line, it takes a run and then I bring it in, like where I was fishing, it was like this long drawn out like gradual shelf and then it dropped into like the bucket or like dropped into like the, the center seam.

Mitch Paisker: 1:02:40

So like I'm I'm probably 40 feet from shore and then this fish is like further out from me and like, as I'm fighting, I'm walking back to get to shallower water, I'm like trying to pull it like to shallower water and at one point it must have like hung up right on that, like that shelf kind of if you want to call it a shelf and like literally just stayed stationary, like to the point where it felt like my line hung up in between rocks or like got hung up or whatever, and I was like huh, and like I'm like I have the rod like forced on this fish right and no lines getting pulled out.

Mitch Paisker: 1:03:23

I cannot gain any traction on this fish and I like reached down, I like heightened the drag a little bit, I like take a couple reels forward and I kind of just put like easy, hard pressure on this fish, like my rod keeps bending further and I was like, oh shit, like I hung up on rocks, like this fish got stuck and like pinned off and then like, slowly, you could just feel like the head move into like the current and it like slowly you, you could just feel like the head move into like the current and it like you know how, like a trout like it'll turn into the current and it'll just kind of like like wub down river, if that makes any sense.

Mitch Paisker: 1:04:01

Yep, and it just started like slowly coming down river, gained some line on it, until I like got it up into like the shallow area. That was like mid shin deep and it like rolled and I was like, oh, that was a lot of white on that fish. I was like, oh, that is, that is a hundred percent of trout, like shit, and they're like took off and I fucking I let it take off because I was like I'm not gonna like try to like, you know, force this fish in and completely like lose my chance of catching it. It ran down river and at this point it's like about to go underneath this bridge and I was like I gotta kind of put the brakes on it because I'm not gonna be able to like get underneath this bridge. Uh, kind of gave it the beans and like turned it and then like got it up into the shallow, into this like little, like depression and like as I'm fighting and like I I had to call my like co-worker from the truck.

Mitch Paisker: 1:04:56

Um, because like I went down to the river, like we were going down to do work, like we're gonna float the river and do like some telemetry on some coho that we had, uh, radio tag and um, we were waiting on a person from a different office to meet us there and I was like I got, I got 45 minutes by the time I put my waders on. I'll have like 25, 30 minutes to fish, so I'm gonna send it. So I got down, I like started fishing for, like you know, that 30 minute wait period while we were waiting for my coworker, and hit this fish. So I call my the coworker that I drove down with and I was like yo, you need to get over here right now. Like this is the biggest shot of my life. Like you got to get over here. And she like panicked and she's like okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mitch Paisker: 1:05:45

And just like shuts the truck off and like like you can just hear her she just like takes off and starts running over to me and, uh, as she got over to me, I would like was just tailing this fish because, like, I didn't bring a net right because I was like you know, like, like I like I legit I legitimately went out there with I had the fly tied onto my line and that was it.

Mitch Paisker: 1:06:07

I did not bring any backups. I did not bring spare line, spare tips, none of that. I was like I'm fishing one fly. If I land it, I land it. If I lose it, I lose it. Like I don't have that much time to fuck around.

Mitch Paisker: 1:06:18

So I went out there no net, one fly and I'm like tail of this fish actually getting over to me and I'm like getting it to like shallower and I'm tailing it. And it was just like the entire, like the cast, the bite, the grab, the fight. It was like all, just like perfect. It was like one, perfect cast, perfect placement, phenomenal strike, great fight.

Mitch Paisker: 1:06:48

Like it just like it dogged the hell out. Like it just like it dogged the hell out of me. It was just like after it broke the surface, that one time it was just like a submarine dude and that thing stayed down the entire time and then, like, took some really good quality photos of it and it just like slowly kicked off back to the depths and I was like hell, yeah, dude. And then, uh, like you know, after that fish, I, like you know, strung my rod up, I like put the fly in the first islet and I was like, all right, there you go, like that's, that's it, that's all and I was like I was like that's all I needed to do, like that, that's it.

Mitch Paisker: 1:07:25

But uh, I went back a couple of days later, or like a week later I guess, and I tried fishing the same spot, but I did not change the tip, I did not change the fly, did not change the length of like tip it or anything. The exact same spot dude, I couldn't get a drift in that was more than like 10 or 15 feet long before I like hung up and hung bottom. So it must've been the current coming across that lake and like the wind blowing that kept my fly moving just enough, and like I must've landed right in front of that fish, within that, you know, 10, 15 feet in front of that fish, to where it hit before it could snag bottom, to where, like just everything came together just absolutely perfectly. And then, like I, then like I know it was it's all of 28 inches, like that 28 it could go. Like I took a picture of it next to my rod, right, and then I measured my rod, but like angle of the picture can make it look, you know, a little bit different, but I'm calling it 28.

Mitch Paisker: 1:08:28

In reality it could be a little bit longer, could be, you know an inch, half an inch, an inch shorter, but I'm calling it 28 and it was just like there was not a single blemish on that fish. There was no like no scales missing. They had all of its fins, none of them were ripped. It had both eyes, both maxillaries, like it was this old buck that had a kite on it. Like everything about this fish was just like perfect and pristine and like, unfortunately, fishing, the keen eyes like you just do not get those fish, like those fish just do not exist, that like get that big and aren't just like mangled by other fishermen.

Mitch Paisker: 1:09:09

Um so the the fact that I hit that fish, it was like like it was amazing that it was huge, and then it was like doubly, triply, quadruply amazing that it was like in pristine perfect condition.

Andrew Barany: 1:09:21

So yeah, yeah I like that because I I I believe I commented on that. If I didn't comment on it, I commented on it in my head I think it did yeah yeah, that fish was was really good. I love the mid-swing grab, as I'm sure many people share that is oh, dude, and it does like you said, it does feel like a rock. Most of the time it's just a dead stop. Whether they're moving or not, it still just feels yep, like.

Mitch Paisker: 1:09:59

You know just that and like, and then it's like especially if your drift has like a like, if you're fishing water that has like a good speed to it and like like a good, good current and all that Like if you're fishing and like you're drifted and your swing is moving at like a good pace, like whether it is a rock or a fish, no matter what happens, like it's like a freight train hits your fly and like a lot of the like, a lot of the aggressive fish up here, like they will hit it and just like and run dude and like, so, like and run dude and like, so like it's like a freight train. And then it's just immediately like and you're just like oh shit, and then like you know like yeah.

Andrew Barany: 1:10:37

So, yeah, dude, the the real toot. I'm still mentally on that. Um, the real toot is real for me.

Mitch Paisker: 1:10:51

I so that and like real quick, I don't mean to cut you off, but I feel like that's a good way to judge your drag, because if you cast with force and then like it goes out and it just goes and like it doesn't take out a bunch of line it doesn't take out, like it's not like stopped and like because, like, if you stop the line it'll kind of like slingshot back a little bit and fall like all loosey-goosey. But like, if you cast with, like if your drag is set well and you do toot that reel, it like pulls out just like a little, like like a couple inches of line, and then it falls nicely. And then also it's like you're like okay, like this drag is at a good, like you know, stopping rate or whatever you want to call it, like it's at a good setting, because then, like, if a fish hits it, it's not like taking off out of nowhere and back spooling you, but it's also not like hitting a brick wall and just like snapping off, you know.

Andrew Barany: 1:11:51

But I guess with the click and paul it doesn't matter it doesn't matter with the click and paul, but I always basically set my reels to a click and paul status, um, you know, and with trout I teach people to strip to keep out on. Um, basically, my theory is you know, it's probably what most people think too, or people that have been doing it long enough um, you know, you can add drag either by your fingers. Having it in your fingers, I rarely will let go of my, my reel, my line, um. So I'll use my fingers, but then I'll just palm it. So, and I teach people that because I think that is a huge aspect to you know your drags there. But if you can apply more drag in a gentle way, that during that initial burst there's less drag, and as the fight goes on, I apply more drag and then I change my angle, even if it's lightly, that can stop a big fish in its tracks when you have the right rod.

Andrew Barany: 1:13:07

Obviously, if you're underpowered, it's different, um, so I've always done that. And now I have a click and pull and I haven't really experienced a big fish on it yet that I've landed. Um, I had a brown, a large brown on. I was swinging in Alberta and hooked into a big fish on my reel up when I was giving up and uh, so that's probably why I lost it. It wasn't a great scenario. I wasn't, I was, he wasn't ready.

Mitch Paisker: 1:13:43

I wasn't um, you know, it was end of the day you you talk about, like all these other things you day and end of the day. You talk about, like all these other things you can do to adjust the drag. It's like dude, the angle to which you have your rod. Like the more vertical your rod is, the more resistance there's gonna be right, or like Vertical straight up, yeah, yeah. So like you know, if the fish is running and you have is running and you have like, and you have a low angle on the rod, like that doesn't apply a lot of like drag to it. But if you move it up, like this, right, like that, that just puts more resistance through the bend of the rod and like, and it will apply like, yeah, it's not like a ton of drag, but like it's the and there's the sweet spot for that, because you need to be using the backbone.

Andrew Barany: 1:14:37

But knowing how to cork into the fish is the key, because once you have that fish on, like I get, I will pull. When I get someone that's new on, like or you know, or just year on end thing for trout, and they missed a couple of fish, I wait for them to miss the fish and, like they hooked it, it came off. Hook another one came off. Okay, I pull the boat over, I get both the clients or whoever what if it's just one of the clients that needs to hear it, whatever and I will get them to wrap the line around their hand five times or so and I will hook set. Well, not hook set, but I'll just set the hook, yep, and I'll be like okay, I've set the hook, now how much pressure do I have on you?

Andrew Barany: 1:15:30

And they're like not a lot. And I'm like okay, so, and then I just stripped down until I get that backbone into. And then I'm like now, how much pressure? And they're like that's a lot of pressure. And I'm like okay, watch this. Now you're going to swim the other way. So I get them to move their hand the other way and I counter it and they're like oh, and I'm like, now you're going to swim the other way, what do I do? And they're like change angle. And I'm like there, yeah, or are there you? Now you're talking my lingo here you said change angle, and so I've.

Andrew Barany: 1:16:04

I've literally ran up and down a bank side for someone. If they're having a hard time understanding what to do and what scenario I will act as the fish. I will tell them okay, now I'm going to run away from you, hand off the reel, because you've already reeled up. You got good tension. Now I'm going to run. Okay, ready, hand off the reel. Here I go, I start running and then I stop and then I'm like okay, now get tension, because I've stopped the run's over, I'm resting reel up on me. Get that tension back there. Okay, now I'm going to run at you. You're going to probably have to raise your arm and start stripping For dear lord and hope you don't lose me and they're like, okay, boom, I start running.

Andrew Barany: 1:16:55

They lift up their arm. I'm like bigger strips, bigger strips, bigger strips. And they like do bigger strips until they're like doing full arm strips. And I'm like, yeah, there you go. And then I stop and I'm like, okay, relax, gain tension. Yep, now I'm shaking my head. Should your hand be on the reel? No, okay, I was shaking, I'm shaking, I'm about to go for another run. Okay, I'm holding tension down on me. Give me a little pull, see what's going on. Okay, now I'm going to run, hand off the reel, I go for a run.

Andrew Barany: 1:17:28

I did this with my son and you should see him. He like he, he does that shit automatically. Now, because he's I've, I've dusted his knuckles yep, not not purposely, purposely, but I knew if he didn't move his hand, shit's going. Yeah, I'm going well, good, yeah, and he so. With my clients, that's the same thing. You know, I will be a fish. If you need to learn, if you're needing to learn that one thing and you've already lost a couple of fish and you just maybe not getting it by my verbal communication I'm the fish, let's go. My verbal communication I'm the fish, let's go. I'm going to show you how to set the hook, and then they usually land one right after that, because I'm like way more tension, more tension, more tension, and they understand what you're saying.

Andrew Barany: 1:18:18

Yeah, and then I'm like stop, stop, okay, hold that All right. Lift, you know, and fish in the net. And it's like with bigger fish when you can stop a big fish from going somewhere you don't want it to, it's never going to happen. From having a low angle, you know, or like you gotta have the right part of the yeah, you need that right bend, but you don't want that candy cane. Yeah, just the top end.

Mitch Paisker: 1:18:48

Like I will say, though, like there's been times where, like I've torqued on a fish man, and like my rod is like all the bend is from like the second guide down into the butt and the entire top of the rod is just like straight at the fish and it's just like you know, and it's yeah, dude, it's just like, it's just like the very bottom of the rod and like all the backbone is in this fucking fish right now and it's like, yeah, it like it's pretty fucking wild to do like how much pressure you can put on a fish is insane when you really use a rod and the line yeah you got everything dialed, you know what size fish you're going after, and you and you put the boots to them you know whether you're fishing baby and it that brown or whatever turns and looks at a log jam and you're just like no, not today, sucker, yeah, and and and he comes back around.

Mitch Paisker: 1:19:48

And then you cork him the other way and then he's like just so he's like I can't so there, there's two things that I learned and I might have I might have brought this up with you, one of these things up with you at some point um, if you're fishing from a boat and it's like a deep enough slot you're going through, um, what one of my buddies showed me is like we, we were going through this one slot at this one point and I hooked a fish that was like pretty decent size, it was like 22, 23 ish, and, dude, I just couldn't like there was too much depth and it could just like it was just working me right. And my buddy was a guide and he goes and and like, like I was counter pressuring this fish and I was doing everything right and I just like couldn't fucking do anything to it. And he was like, put your rod tip underwater, sink the first two feet of your rod underwater, and like, like, like, change the angle, dude, I put my rod tip under the water and like, instantly, that fish came right to me. Like, like, yeah, and and it's not. It's not, dude.

Mitch Paisker: 1:20:49

I put my rod tip under the water and like, instantly, that fish came right to me. Like, like, yeah, and and it's not. It's not like I had my rod tip like way up right. Like I had my rod tip close to the water because I was like side angle like pretty hard and he was like dipping under the water. So I just like went from a like 20 degree, like 20 degrees less than horizontal, to like 45 degrees less than horizontal and that fish just came right to me and it was like it was crazy that like you can just dip that rod underwater and like it's a complete different game to that fish.

Andrew Barany: 1:21:22

Yeah, so I had, uh, my last trip um on the cow gin for the season the fall season 2024,. I got two days with these two gentlemen One was the son father scenario and the son was a guide in Montana. We fished hard on nymphs the first day a bit of streamer. The second day got a brown to eat on the first day. Second day we showed up and just he pounded it with streamers. We got him and this is like it's been a mild winter and the water's been relatively decent. So, and the water's been relatively decent, and I managed or he managed to get his first brown on the swing in terms of a two-handed rod that he just bought. I taught him he already could cast it you know he's watched videos Like he can cast a single hand very well. He can cast a single hand very well, and he got a brown in the one run. That was really swingable in the section we were doing. So that was sweet. It was actually on this little bunny leech. Oh yeah, not this one, but one identical.

Mitch Paisker: 1:22:47

Well real quick question on that If a, if a client, it's like um, like a milestone fish for them, Do you let them keep that fly? Yeah.

Andrew Barany: 1:22:58

Oh, you would be surprised how many. If you bring your own Rod with you On my boat and I tie a fly on for you and the day's ended, you're taking it home.

Mitch Paisker: 1:23:12

Even if they're using your rod and your gear. If that kid was using your two-hander that you supplied, I think I've given.

Andrew Barany: 1:23:20

I see what you're saying now.

Andrew Barany: 1:23:23

As like a memento or whatever I haven't maybe thought of it that way. I've never been like here, buddy, this was, like you know, your fly of the day. That's not the worst idea, I guess. If I I will use. If someone tells me they tie flies, I will give my fly that they have on their rod, or even if it's on my rod, I'll be like here, take this one, you know if, especially because usually in that scenario it'd be like the nymph of the day and they like nymphing so or like, but not my dries.

Andrew Barany: 1:23:57

I pay for those you can. You can get your own dries. If it was a dry I I tied. That would maybe be a different scenario. Mouse patterns I've given out mouse patterns to people that like mousing, yep, um, that we didn't talk about with dry flies. If we call mousing dry fly fishing, no it's a floating like a stream floating streamer. It's a floating streamer. Okay, so that shit is my.

Andrew Barany: 1:24:26

Drives are insects. Sure, okay, I would agree on that, because I didn't really classify it there, but I agree with that. So I think that when I'm, you know Well, I just had a brain fart. Well, because by that logic, a popper's a dry too, and like and that's a bait fish imitation, basically, or a frog or another mouse, or something or like a gurgler floats, but that's not a dry. Okay, Alright, alright, alright.

Mitch Paisker: 1:24:59

Fight me, buddy Whoa.

Andrew Barany: 1:25:13

And the true color show. Yeah, no, I feel that. I feel that it is. It is a great. You know, something this year that has really kind of struck me is you know, when I out, I took my wife out and my son and my wife this is my wife that that movie needs to be watched again by my eyes and ears.

Andrew Barany: 1:25:33

She said that it was the best time I had ever taken her out, and it was also after I have calmed down more, even more than I had already calmed down on fishing, because you know for one that day, if you're going to take your kid out fishing or your wife out fishing, it's not about you, and that's that's what I lacked the understanding of. It was about me. My family was just with me, yep, but then when? So this time, when we came out, they let me fish runs and I caught fish. So that was sweet, but I didn't need a ton of fish, I just wanted a few. My son wanted to fish one of his own flies and he did not catch a fish, and I tried to explain to him that the tungsten bead is his best friend and he did not have one of those on his fly, and so he was basically fishing like a, basically a popper. It had deer hair, everything in it, everything in it. So he didn't catch anything but my wife caught.

Mitch Paisker: 1:26:41

Yeah, but had he.

Andrew Barany: 1:26:43

Caught something, though. Well, he's caught fish other times, and so now I'm allowing skunkage.

Mitch Paisker: 1:26:51

He needs to be skunked he needs the hard times.

Andrew Barany: 1:26:54

He doesn't even know he's five now he just turned five. He needs some skunkation. You know, he needs to like At the end of the day, be like. And I told him I was like you didn't listen to me. You weren't trying what I was trying to explain to you. You didn't catch fish. I'm the person that teaches people how to fish. You got skunked. I was like I get skunked. I wouldn't have got skunked today.

Andrew Barany: 1:27:18

But yeah, yeah, all right, I didn't get skunked today, but yeah, yeah, all right, didn't get skunk today, but I I could have shed some some light on what you should have done a little man and basically like screw off with your wanting to catch fish every time you gotta work at it you know. So, um, but she, she caught some fish and she was, she was super happy because I had the best attitude. I have to work on my attitude, man. I'm I could be a 2d kind of person dude I have.

Mitch Paisker: 1:27:47

I have come to that conclusion as well when, like when I fish with my girl. So when I fish with a friend it's way different.

Andrew Barany: 1:27:55

I'm fine, I'm like, I'm a pretty I'm a pretty lax person, oh nice nice, but dude, if I fish with my girlfriend man a completely different story, whereas, like she, messes up and I'm like dude, why did you do it that way?

Mitch Paisker: 1:28:09

Or like, come on, like you need to learn how to net. And it's like I see her abilities and her like, I guess, like not expertise, but like her, like fishing capabilities as like an extension of me, and like that's where I go wrong, assuming that like she'll match you.

Mitch Paisker: 1:28:36

Exactly and assuming that she'll match my skill or whatever, and like I'll go with friends and her and then then like it'll take me like one kind of like, one kind of like off-color comment or like too forceful of like a statement to be like, oh fuck, I'm being an asshole, I need to, I'm gonna. I going to reel this one back. Yeah, a lot, I'm just going to pack her up.

Mitch Paisker: 1:29:06

Yeah, like in the fall, my buddy came up from California and me my girlfriend, my buddy and his wife were on the boat and it was just my buddy and Kirsten fishing and I was on sticks were on the boat and it was just my buddy and Kirsten fishing and I was on sticks and like Kirsten like she casted and like her line got messed up or something, or like she tried to cast and she like got it stuck or something. And I was like jeez, what the like? Come on, why'd you do it? Like you know what to do. And then like she was like alright, I'm done. And like reeled up her line, booked her line up and like put her rod to the side and she was like no, I'm not gonna. And I was like I was like I fucked up, I fucked up here and then

Mitch Paisker: 1:29:51

like we ended up pulling the boat over and I like sat down with her. I was like I'm sorry I overreacted, like I did not mean that, like, please, like let's continue, and like we'll keep fishing and like I will not be as harsh on you and like I'll like try to speak to you in like a you know better tone and stuff like that. And then, like eventually, like she came to and like we started fishing again. She caught some more fish and stuff. But I was like like every, every summer, like once or twice that happens, and I'm like, oh, I'm trying to be better, I'm trying to be better, I am trying to be better, but like it's a tough thing, man, like you know, family it's especially us white people, you know.

Andrew Barany: 1:30:32

Hey, mom, maybe a sandwich, you know, like that shit, like it comes out once in a while, yeah, you know my wife takes the blunt of it because sometimes I say some shit and I'm like man, I'm such a nice guy on average but I say the most dickhead shit to her and you know I apologize nowadays and and work on it and I've been getting better, but it's not so much with the fishing more like I want to fish, and you know yeah, or she's tangled, she's tangled up, exactly so it's like if I had.

Andrew Barany: 1:31:09

It's like if I had a client on my boat and all of a sudden I started fishing and they were tangled. Like obviously I'm the guy that needs to do this, but when I'm on my own time and you know, or my son, he like casts over me and then pulls Away and rips my you know. So I've had to learn to just like Okay, I'm going to pick these handful Of spots where I fish the rest of the time I'm there for you, or like we'll be coming up on like a really Good run and I'll be like Get your line in the water.

Mitch Paisker: 1:31:40

Like fish now. And like fish now, or and like like yeah, now like the time, like whether it's her or somebody else and like they'll like pull out.

Mitch Paisker: 1:31:49

And like they'll pull out and try to cast or whatever, and like usually when you're fishing from like the rafts or the boats, like that we fish on the keen eye, it's like you're running, like you're running like indicator rigs that are like 10, 11 feet of line to the hook Right, so like they're wonky, they're clunky and they're hard to cast with a lot of weight on. And like you pull out and like if you like move the wrong way, you just end up tangling your rig. And I'll be like all right, like pitch this slot right side of the boat, like cast out, and like let it drift along the seam or whatever. And like they'll come over and like they'll tangle on the way over. And I'll be like get your line in the water like fish now, like this is where the fish are going to be. And then like they're hung up and then it like I just come off as a soul, I'm being like you fucked up, you're supposed to be in the water. Like this is where to like you would have had a fish.

Andrew Barany: 1:32:40

So what I have been doing, because that is a guide's nightmare no it's not that bad. It's your day out to fish so like if shit happens, like there's always another run and it's at the end of the day and it's been a day- probably.

Andrew Barany: 1:32:57

but what I do is I, I tell people I'll be like, okay, stop, stop fishing, strip up to your you know, to the point where you're ready to cast. And then I'll be like, okay, flick it to the other side and then flick it behind you and flick it back in there and I time it with the boat and I, like you know so, I work a lot on how to prepare someone for the shot I want them to take, especially on the lower end of the, of the top end section that I work on, uh, the most like like you're doing a lot of the work to get the fly in the right place I'm doing, like, all the work to get it in.

Andrew Barany: 1:33:39

Um, if they can cast, obviously, but if they're, you know, if they're, they can cast and make the shot, but they just aren't at the stage where they're predicting.

Andrew Barany: 1:33:50

When they look ahead I will tell them like okay, you see that root ball coming up, strip up and wait for that root ball and we're going to start casting prior to it and then, when we get like into position, you're going to flick it behind you and and then, when we get like into position, you're going to flick it behind you and shoot it into it. So they're already prepped, their lines already in the water in the right length, angle everything's good and last second.

Andrew Barany: 1:34:15

You know that would be like a bobber rig, um, or even a streamer. Sometimes I'll get people to do that with streamers because I'm like I know that if I say, okay, this is coming up we're coming up.

Mitch Paisker: 1:34:26

Okay, great, one, two three go.

Andrew Barany: 1:34:29

Yeah, done. Yeah, someone's tangled up. Both cast in the exact same spot, both messed up.

Mitch Paisker: 1:34:37

whatever one's in a tree, one missed the you know, I think also, like I mean, I don't know how tall you are, right, I'm like 6'1", right? So I'm taller, like I'm obviously taller than my girlfriend.

Mitch Paisker: 1:34:54

And my arms are longer and so, like, when I move a rod over top of my head, like even if I don't do it vertically, I still have a higher rod tip than she does. So, like one thing that I've had to like make plenty sure that she like, or like to remind her, like really anybody on the boat who, like, isn't used to fishing from a boat is like you gotta keep that rod tip so fucking high.

Mitch Paisker: 1:35:20

Like extend your arm and like keep it high, especially if you're flipping sides of the boat, like you you got to come up high before you come over, because like it, because if you come over with, like you know, your hand at your shoulder level, you're just gonna like drag that rig and smack the side of the boat and then it's gonna like tumble up and get all tangled and then, like you're never gonna be fishing. So it's like, just like every time, I like reassure them and like, hey, like rod tip high, keep your, keep your rod high. Like come across at 12 o'clock and like arm fully extended and then, like I have like realized that, like doing that you know helps with their boat fishing experience as well.

Andrew Barany: 1:36:05

Yeah, so I let's say we're fishing on the left and I want them to go to the right.

Andrew Barany: 1:36:12

Yeah, we're fishing, and what I'll do is I teach the half circle. Just like you're staying where, I'm like, okay, when I say half, circle it to the other side, or, you know, flip it to the other side, do this half circle over your head and nine times out of 10, you're going to literally hit the spot I want you to be because I've already placed you there. So if I say, okay, don't worry about your fly dragging, we're going to scoot across the river Right when I say go, if they just flip it over, almost always I can get them right into that spot. And that's the same with dry flies. Like I know, doing the traditional beautiful cast is what a lot of people look for. But, like, if you want to get down and dirty with these fish, you gotta sometimes just flick it over there because, like man the, by the time that person's moved their knees over, adjusted their back, sat up in their chair or they're standing, gathered their line, prepared themselves, we've already passed that spot.

Mitch Paisker: 1:37:22

And when they cast out, I'll be like you missed it. And then, even if you pass it, then they try to like cast it upstream when you're drifting down and then like it just doesn't work and then like something, something just doesn't so that half moon over to the next side.

Andrew Barany: 1:37:38

Then position is also if you have line at your feet and you shoot it out on that half turn by the time you turn, if you have line at your feet and you shoot it out on that half turn by the time you turn over, you have nothing at your feet. You can just continue to.

Mitch Paisker: 1:37:50

You know, as you were a soldier water like water loading is like a person's best fucking friend. Dude on the boat. It's well anytime, exactly Exactly and especially with like, especially if you're like fishing in like a nymph rig or a bobber rig, like if you come over and you put a haul into a water load dude, you can like and let that bitch soar.

Andrew Barany: 1:38:15

Yeah, just right on.

Mitch Paisker: 1:38:15

And like.

Andrew Barany: 1:38:17

When I'm streamer fishing, I like someone to basically, depending on the size of the river, also determines that. But my river, my home river, my gem middle of the river, most of the time good caster can hit both sides. I could literally be like left, right hole, left hole and just watch them annihilating things out there.

Andrew Barany: 1:38:45

But even if we weren't catching a lot of fish, the satisfaction, it's like a good swing. Yeah, you know, you hit those holes, you hit those pockets and then on the occasion you see a roll or a flash, you're like, oh yeah, and then all of a sudden you get that chunky monkey. You know, yeah, that's what it's about.

Mitch Paisker: 1:39:06

So are you going to be on foot or on boat when you're in Patagonia?

Andrew Barany: 1:39:13

Oh yeah, so that is a lot of things going on out there. It is super exciting.

Andrew Barany: 1:39:26

There is opportunity for it all, a little bit of everything. So it's going to be kind of depending on the system, uh, depending on the spots going, and you know there's there is options for horseback riding, uh, to the fishing spots, heli rides. It really depends on how someone wants to kind of set it up. Now for this hosted trip, uh, it is going to be no heli and the horseback riding is not going to be a thing, but those are options that there was. So, if it was, had the group of people together, um, and we were going over the details just to make sure if everyone was like heli, we're going heli, yeah, which would be sick, but a lot of them are going to be drive, okay to the spot, hike in, um, and or get on the raft. I like walking wade. So that's something that I would like to see some of, because then you could also be swinging. So if you're into swinging, you can bring your. You could have a rod for each.

Mitch Paisker: 1:40:38

I mean like you could probably get a lot done just like single hand spade on there too oh, hell, yeah, man spay fishing out, there is growing.

Andrew Barany: 1:40:47

Uh, there's atlantic salmon. We're not targeting atlantic salmon sorry not atlantic salmon, I don't know.

Mitch Paisker: 1:40:54

I said I've yeah, anyways, non-atlantic salmon I'll just say like, like I I knew that there was like kings and chinook, or like chinooks and like browns and rainbows and brooks.

Andrew Barany: 1:41:03

I didn't know that there was like Kings and Chinook or like Chinooks and like Browns and Rainbows and Brooks.

Mitch Paisker: 1:41:05

I didn't know that there was Atlantic salmon.

Andrew Barany: 1:41:07

Sorry, no, my mind trailed.

Mitch Paisker: 1:41:08

I guess there's timing down there, holy shit.

Andrew Barany: 1:41:14

There's everything you want. I'll bring it in my suitcase and I will put it there for you.

Mitch Paisker: 1:41:20

Stock like a muskie down there.

Andrew Barany: 1:41:22

Yeah no, my last episode was About Atlantic salmon. I will put it there for you. Stock like a muskie down there. Yeah no, my last episode was About Atlantic salmon. So it just resonated yes, king salmon, and that is also Another thing that we could be doing down there, is it?

Mitch Paisker: 1:41:37

the season for it, though.

Andrew Barany: 1:41:40

Not the time we're going, not so much the season. It's a little not the time we're going, not so much the season. I'd have to look at my notes. I took notes when I was talking to a guide out there and getting that information. That was on another episode. So I took notes for that, just uh, just because. But the seven day trip is going to be everything included out there, so all the lodging, all the travel, all the everything in between and then all the food is going to be like local, authentic.

Andrew Barany: 1:42:13

That was sweet food just super good. So um, yeah, there's, there's spots left and we're getting um closer to it the one thing that two there is no, there's three.

Andrew Barany: 1:42:29

okay, yeah, so that's good. Um god, I wish I could go to that man. There's a certain amount of people we need to go out there and with the short amount of time we got things kind of organized. Everything is now fully organized on that end, but I'm half tempted to just say I'm going to wait till next year. Yeah, but at the same time we're still just going to promote it because it's been oh yeah, dude. It's been in the making for like two years now.

Mitch Paisker: 1:43:01

If you give me more details on it. I got. I have some buddies who I have in mind who might be down for it. Um, I think we were talking about that, yeah, yeah I got some buddies that I'm gonna reach out to and actually the kid who called me in the middle of this episode.

Andrew Barany: 1:43:17

So hopefully nothing glitches on his behalf, but I'm gonna get a hold of him after, yeah yeah, yeah, it's um, it's going to be ongoing, like my plan is to do this every year, um, so it's not every year there. I want to host a trip somewhere else as well. I have some other opportunities that have come up, so I messaged a handful of people, some of them that I knew were on the less likely, but the the group of people I want to go with on this first round is definitely like more people I would know and or listeners. I think that would be really cool. And then the promotion that I was doing or that I want to do, for it is um a lot during the summer, with a lot of the clients that I get out in the kootenays. So finding the people is the mission, but everything has already been created and it's unfortunate that the Canadian dollars so fucking shit right now.

Mitch Paisker: 1:44:26

Yeah, I mean like so so if you send me any like flyers or whatever, like I can, I can send them to people.

Andrew Barany: 1:44:31

I'll have. I have all the details.

Mitch Paisker: 1:44:34

Um you know.

Andrew Barany: 1:44:35

I'm not that professional in my criminology but I wrote I got it all written now, yeah, and mean like criminology, but I wrote I got it all written now, yeah, and um, the whole schedule, everything goes. So, yeah, it's, it's going to be a reality pretty shortly here this season. Um, I was talking to one of the guides and he was saying that, uh, that it's just been an epic season so far, and then going into the brown trout with know, people wanting to spay more and streamer fish more, and that's what we're going to predominantly be focusing on, I'm not really going to worry. Well, I wouldn't worry about ninting. It's not necessary out there Dry flies if that's what you're into.

Andrew Barany: 1:45:20

Dude you know the pristine wild area. There is something any angler will want to experience.

Mitch Paisker: 1:45:30

Well, so okay. So I'm just like farting about on Google real quick. The Canadian dollar is worth 700 Chilean pesos right now.

Andrew Barany: 1:45:43

It's all in the Now the.

Mitch Paisker: 1:45:44

American dollar is worth. Let me switch units US dollar. One US dollar is 1,020 Chilean pesos. Yeah, dude, and that's at a low right now, like the US dollar dollar. Yeah, so, like a week ago it was like a lot higher, holy shit. Well, no, I guess not. I guess not that much higher, but it was like still higher.

Andrew Barany: 1:46:18

but yeah, this is one of those times where things do a lot of dipping and dying.

Mitch Paisker: 1:46:24

Yeah, yeah but, yeah but I mean like right now it's at an like a low, but like dude, that's still fucking a phenomenal exchange rate yeah, well, and you see the Canadian dollar.

Andrew Barany: 1:46:41

I exchanged 220 American into 312 Canadian recently.

Mitch Paisker: 1:46:52

Yeah, it's $1. Us is $1.44 you oh, that's terrible.

Andrew Barany: 1:46:59

Yeah, $1, you is 69 cents up but you know, once you like get out to a trip like this yeah, it's, it's like what's another hundred, you know like, yeah, exactly that kind of stuff. So you know, once you got your flights and travel insurance and you're on the way to patagonia, there's basically nothing to think of everything included. So you, unless you're really planning on buying, you know, smoked or tobacco or liquor, yeah, um, the cost out there is going to be very minuscule, if any.

Andrew Barany: 1:47:37

Yeah, yeah exactly so, dude that that sounds like such a dope trip yeah, I'm, I'm so excited I've wanted to go to yeah, patagonia for since I learned about it, since I, one of my first episodes yeah um was with uh flo. Um, he's a guide on the island and he goes out to Patagonia and he was talking about it, about how I can't remember exactly what Asian culture brought the king salmons in and tried that and then they left thinking it didn't work, and then, all of a sudden, king salmons started showing up and fucking record breaking king salmon and then the brown trout.

Andrew Barany: 1:48:25

There are just large and in charge, you know, slightly in the similar way of so, while you're down there.

Mitch Paisker: 1:48:36

Is there any option for like native fish, or is it all just like rainbows and browns that are, and yeah pretty much introduced brook trout down there too, right.

Andrew Barany: 1:48:48

There's definitely some systems with it. Um, the main hunt, I believe, will be browns. Like record breaking browns is what my mind is on yeah, yeah, uh, you know catching a 28 plus Brown on a streamer or on a swung fly, even bigger, I mean 28's not even that hard for Patagonia, yeah.

Mitch Paisker: 1:49:12

Yeah, holy cow, so bad.

Andrew Barany: 1:49:16

I know, next season, save up the shillings, save up the shillings.

Mitch Paisker: 1:49:24

Jeez, yeahillings, jeez, yeah, okay I'm at a good, here you go. I'm at a good. In 2024, 37 inch brown trout was caught in patagonia yeah uh in and that's, and that was landed in in 2017, fielding caught a 30 poundpound brown trout on the Rio Grande in Tierra del Fuego, argentina. That was the largest fish caught on the river that season. A 30-pound brown trout buddy.

Andrew Barany: 1:49:55

It doesn't even look healthy. I bet it's been eating chips and dip all the time. One too many tamales shit, yeah, 30 pounds that's gonna be so dude.

Mitch Paisker: 1:50:08

I'm so stoked for you, man, I'm good with 10 dude I'd be good with like and with like a six or an eight. Let's be real, like yeah, like dude, all the brown trout all the brown trout I've ever caught have been like stocked fish dude, like stockies with like half tails and snub noses Like I've never caught like a legitimate brown trout. So I've caught some good browns and yeah, it seems like you get some pretty decent browns out your way.

Andrew Barany: 1:50:40

Yeah, and the two biggest brown brands. I got on the swing like that is a really good fight on the streamer as well as obviously always a good fight, just that aggressive grab throwing big meat around yes, sir dude you know, chasing those fish in the most wild and remote area of South America, or like, maybe not the most, but you know what I mean. Like on a trout stream, dude mad mad jealous.

Andrew Barany: 1:51:14

Chile is. Chile is known to be like such a nice place, like the people are. Just every Chilean I've ever met has just been so nice and great mood. Their culture is awesome. The food I've gone and had food at my buddy's house a few times amazing. Yeah, oh, dude, I'm so jealous. The drinks, it's, it's, it's the making for some real good times. I would like to eventually guide out there for like a month a year. If I could work real large.

Mitch Paisker: 1:51:52

I'm going to pose this to you, andrew. This is my task to you. I want you to catch the smallest brown trout possible out there. While I'm out there, I want to see a three-inch fish with par marks on it.

Andrew Barany: 1:52:17

I will find you. I've caught that fish before. I'll find you one up there. Send that to you.

Mitch Paisker: 1:52:24

Either that or like I want to see the biggest or like the smallest ratio of fly size to fish size. So like you want big fly, small fish, yeah, yeah, yeah. So like, if you're using like a four inch fly, I want you to catch like a five inch fish. Yes, like you know what I mean. Like in alaska we do. It's an aggressive player out there.

Andrew Barany: 1:52:47

you know we're not searching for the average we're searching for this, like this, this fish that is just built, different, already, with shoulders I mean I mean like pre-shouldered.

Mitch Paisker: 1:52:58

I can show you, I can show you fish in Alaska that I've caught. I'm fishing a six-inch Dalai Lama right and I catch an eight-inch rainbow trout and it's like what the fuck are you doing? What were you thinking. What are you doing? Yeah, you got some gumption to you, but what are you doing, man?

Andrew Barany: 1:53:20

How are you going to swallow that? That's the aggression I want to hit. That's the aggression.

Mitch Paisker: 1:53:23

I want to hit.

Andrew Barany: 1:53:24

That's the aggression I want to hit. I want that fish and then a bigger fish to eat that fish.

Mitch Paisker: 1:53:30

I was just going to say I'm sure that you'll catch some fish that have like tails hanging out of their mouth and stuff. That'd be sweet.

Andrew Barany: 1:53:37

Yeah, I've seen that with with one brown on the island yeah. I've seen not like a massive fish but definitely had like food in its mouth, and I was like, and you still?

Mitch Paisker: 1:53:49

yeah, I, I caught a. I got a pike this summer. It was like a probably I don't know, probably 15 inch pike and in its in its stomach, when I like was unhooking it and it started like throwing it up, it had like a five inch coho salmon that it was like regurgitating back up.

Andrew Barany: 1:54:10

It was pretty cool, but nice, yeah, but yeah, they, they're aggressive, those pikes.

Mitch Paisker: 1:54:17

That was another thing we were talking about on the last episode was musky, yeah, um and musky are fun, dude musky just a fish because, like god, I've never had a fish that was like, oh, I'm gonna like follow your bait or your fly in for like 30 feet and then just nah, I'm good, and like swim off, or just like sit there and just like taunt you and like look at you and then watch your fly swim by again and then just be like no, I'm good, and then just like take off like yeah, so so annoying, so annoying that, yeah, you know people talk about fish have, like you know they're lazy, or that they determine if that meal is worth the chase.

Andrew Barany: 1:55:20

To go on to that long of a you know an attack where you get like three or four strikes and it turns away. Yeah, it's like you put in all that energy to say no, yeah, dude, in the end what were you thinking? You're going to die if you don't get this meal in.

Mitch Paisker: 1:55:39

You come back but dude that same kid that I was talking about. That was like if we don't, get this meal in.

Andrew Barany: 1:55:42

You come back. You know what I mean. But dude, that same kid that I was talking about, that was like if we ain't rising, we diving. Yeah, he would like he was fishing streamers and he'd get a bite and he'd like flick it back behind him, get the fish. It was so nice to watch, um, as a guide, you know, and someone. Like it's all good on a day of fishing, but when someone's fishing streamers and they're just left, right and center grabbing the fish over there, fish over there, I'm like something's coming up, they flick it in, they're like, got them. I'm just like you know that day just came together.

Mitch Paisker: 1:56:26

It was the day to be doing that, yeah dude, I gotta get on the river with you, man. I'm gonna get down to vancouver island and fucking get out with you, man, yeah yeah, get down to the cowagin you would up, get down to the cowagin man, you think you'd like it.

Andrew Barany: 1:56:40

You got to come up here. I'm yeah, june, if, if I things stay on track the way they are, I think June is going to happen for that.

Mitch Paisker: 1:56:49

So, yeah, I'm excited for that.

Andrew Barany: 1:56:52

That's, you know, that's, that's all. That's all I really want out there.

Mitch Paisker: 1:56:56

I swear to God, though you're not tying on a dry fly, though.

Andrew Barany: 1:56:59

No, no, no no.

Mitch Paisker: 1:57:05

I'll a dry fly though no, no, no, no, I'll, I'll stick to greasy stuff that dangles and wangles.

Andrew Barany: 1:57:08

Yep, big old, big old meat whistles, that, that, that mouse pattern that I've been tying these days and I use what do you call it? It's like a popper head.

Mitch Paisker: 1:57:18

Oh yeah, it's a double barrel popper that you flip backwards yeah, that I flip backwards.

Andrew Barany: 1:57:24

Yep, and I do the little, the little nose hairs you you know, I got a little nose hairs just for no reason and all that rabbit, but like when it sits in the water it's like, it's like, it's like it's like a little bit of an ass hang and it and it, yeah, yeah, it's still the whole body is in the water, yeah, and there's the foam back, but then the popper head.

Andrew Barany: 1:57:48

That foam on the popper head so dense that it keeps the nose up. Yeah, and she, just like I, will sit there next to the boat. And this happened once where I was just like in awe and right next to the boat, trout came and grabbed it. It like so close to the boat, you know, rod length off, just like wiggling it right by like the seam. But I was just watching my fly and just smashed it.

Mitch Paisker: 1:58:17

How big of mice patterns are you using, like full-grown field or are you using like vole size?

Andrew Barany: 1:58:24

I guess more on the vole size.

Mitch Paisker: 1:58:26

Um you know Like mini mice. With tail, it would probably be yeah, yeah, but like Body size is like Body size, I go for the smaller body.

Andrew Barany: 1:58:38

I feel you know and I mean Kelly Gallop said it A while ago and I sent that reel to a bunch of my friends You're going to get more fish on a smaller fly, absolutely On average, absolutely, absolutely. You know, but you get the. What I see, have seen has always been that you know smaller body easier to cast.

Andrew Barany: 1:59:12

Wiggle the shit out of it. Fish chases it. I, me and my buddy in the Kootenays, that's something that I'm going to do. The Kootenays that's something that I'm going to do if any listener ever comes out to the Kootenays, which has happened now last season, past season, where I had listeners on the boat and they brought up mycing and we moused for the rest of the day.

Andrew Barany: 1:59:38

You know, maybe both of them landed like five fish, but we got so many blobs from those cutties that it was just like action pat yep with like log jam coming up, hit it, hit it, hit it boom, blow up, blow up, blow up, and I'm like holy shit, in one log jam we got, like I think, about four to five large fish come up, smack, you know, miss, cast back in there, blow up again. Next next hole, blow up. Yeah, you know, it was so fun. The West slopes, if you want top water stuff, that West slope stuff is crazy, so good, yeah. Dog stuff that west slope stuff is crazy, so good, yeah, dog um. And then like getting clients on streamer or on uh, mouse patterns during the day, yep, hooking fish in like yeah, dude, you're making me miss fucking summertime.

Mitch Paisker: 2:00:37

Right now summertime it's like moving fish I don't know if, like I don't know if this happens to you too, but like it always seems like we're looking for, like the next season, right, is that your mouse? That's, that's a sculpin.

Mitch Paisker: 2:00:54

That's not a mouse, that's just a sculpin, I'm just like showing you things like it always seems like you're looking for the next season or the next two seasons, right, like it's the middle of winter now and I'm like god, I can't wish for spring, I can't wait for spring to like hit these fish. Or like I can't wait for winter and then like, or uh, summer, and then it's like once like may rolls around, you're like fuck, dude, I can't wait for like september and october to hit, like you know, these like fall fish. And then it's like, oh, I can't wait for winter because, like fishing in the snow is pretty sweet, or like you can get big fish in the winter. And then like, oh, I can't wait for spring. And it's like, dude, just like, I need to learn how to like, just like be content and happy with, like my current no I feel you, though.

Andrew Barany: 2:01:36

I like the fact that you know my guiding stuff and my personal fishing is always changing. I want to do more space stuff, but, on that note, you could spay dries, you could spay streamers and all that, so I could still be doing the same stuff, but I love the transition of like hitting nymphs hard in the the spring and and streamers in the spring. Are we alive?

Mitch Paisker: 2:02:08

no, oh, there we go. It just came back. We're live. We're live again. Sorry, I I had to. I had to switch off of my corded headphones to my airpods so I can charge my phone. I'm at like 4% and I don't want it to die.

Andrew Barany: 2:02:26

Yeah, no worries. Well, those AirPods are pretty good sound. Oh, are they clear now? Yeah, it's both clear. The mic on your sweater might have made a couple of things, but I probably can get that out and oh, it's Sorry about that.

Mitch Paisker: 2:02:40

Sorry folks, it's your fault.

Andrew Barany: 2:02:45

It often is, and that's fair as long as half of the battle is committing it yeah but, yeah, going from like nymphing to streamer fishing, to swinging, to drive fly, you know, like that transition for me, um, and being such a well-rounded angler capable of doing that, I think is a big ticket item. So like, yeah, when I see people that only fish dry flies or only swing or only this or only that, you know that's awesome. If that's your thing, great, love it, no problem. But I like to be able to be very versatile.

Mitch Paisker: 2:03:23

I like to be area where I'm like oh, you know what this, this is what I'm going to do here yeah, I mean I'd I'd rather be the jack of all trades and the master of none than the master of one and like, can't, like, like I'd rather be able to like sufficiently fish streamer and a nymph and know how to swing, than to be, than to only be like oh, I only know how to euro nymph and I can't toss a streamer, or like. I can't do this because, like I mean, there's times throughout the river, like all and like I've got into doing it now, where I will be swinging a run and like I'll be like wow, this isn't producing and I'll switch over and like I'll toss like an indicator rig, like I'll spadicate across, like this run, and I'll start picking up fish instead of like swinging because like spadicate yeah, you have such fucking glorious ways of calling things.

Andrew Barany: 2:04:23

Yeah, dude, that makes it official as shit when I did that.

Andrew Barany: 2:04:29

Man, that's so funny, that's a good time too, and it's all good, man, like, we're out there fishing, oh yeah. Like yeah, if you catch enough fish that you can now just pick how you fish, cool, oh yeah. If you just love dry fly fishing and that's all you want to do and you only get a fish a handful of times a year, amazing yep. But if you're fishing all year round and you never change up your style, you're just not going to advance, which I don't think many people would just do. The one thing well like.

Mitch Paisker: 2:04:59

So I know one of my best buddies one of my best buddies who got me into like swinging and who's like a steelheader, like do or die. Like if a fish comes on a single handed rod, it it's not a real fish to him. Like it, like it has to be on a swung fly. Like he hit a steelhead on, like the dead on, like the the dead hang and like fought it for like I don't know eight minutes, whatever, and it popped off and he was like, ah, dude, it don't matter, like it, it wasn't on the swing, it doesn't count. Like it was on the hang. Like I. Like I want a real fish, you know.

Andrew Barany: 2:05:32

And I was like you dude To us peasants yeah.

Mitch Paisker: 2:05:40

But like he was telling me he has a buddy who, like he will, his buddy will only skate dries for steelhead. That is the only way that he will fish steelhead is like he will skate a hundred days of the year and like might move five fish and get one grab and he, he's happy, he's like plenty Okay With with that. Like he's at the point now where he's caught plenty of steelhead and he knows how to do it and he knows that he could do it on conventional like matters. But he will only skate a fly and it's like, dude, I'm like I'm all for doing it my way, but like god, I need to catch a fish sometimes, dude like, yeah, I don't think I'm at skating for winter runs just yet.

Andrew Barany: 2:06:26

Yeah, I got. I got like 10, 20 more years before I'm at that stage. But that's the you know we evolve and that's kind of the beauty too is like, yeah, if it's skating, a dry fly for steelhead is your thing and you put the time in, it'll happen. And if you're content with that, like me, I'd rather yeah, exactly.

Andrew Barany: 2:06:51

If I'm out on the river I'd probably rather be streamer fishing, and if that day streamers are not the ticket item, I may throw on a nymph to catch a fish. But if I've caught a few fish already already and I don't catch another one for the rest of the day, right on go.

Andrew Barany: 2:07:09

Yeah, Like like successful, but to not catch a fish, like the two years with no steel head for me, um, on the swing. It's sad, I'm a sad Panda. Keep down inside. That's that's you know. Yeah, I've gone the grabs, I've gone play the fish for a bit and all that good stuff, but I didn't, you know, I didn't get to touch them, even though I've got on nymphs and I I got one, uh, one kelp on a streamer, um, yeah, which you know yeah and and and I mean like mean like there's definitely times where a skunk is like you're okay with a skunk, like there was.

Mitch Paisker: 2:07:48

There was a day this past summer where, like I went up and I like fished this little river that I love fishing and I caught, like legitimately I had a 60 fish day. I caught 60 grayling in a day and then like I went out the next week or whatever to a different river and like got skunked.

Mitch Paisker: 2:08:06

But I was like I mean like I'm okay with that because like I fucked up these fish right, but like, yeah, you got 60 that you should, but but but then, but then, like, if I were to go out, like you, you know, two, three, four more times and keep getting skunked, then I'm like, all right, I'm going to do something irrational to catch these fish, you know, like, like I'll I won't quite get to a squirmy wormy, but I'll, I'll tie on, like I'll tie in a dirty bug, you know.

Andrew Barany: 2:08:39

Yes, a hundred percent. I have the, the egg squirmy worm. So if you can, pass that greasiness. I would love to send me a photo. If you can tie a fly greasier than an egg with a squirmy worm off of it, I would love to see it. I don't know what it would be, but in the grease books that's.

Mitch Paisker: 2:09:01

I will send you a fly that's greasier than that, and, and you will, you will promise to never show a soul in your life. Okay, cause I like like grease, grease, master, flex over here by all means, by all means. I am ashamed of it, but I have definitely used it to produce in times of need.

Andrew Barany: 2:09:24

Oh yeah, man, you know when you're out there, different days call for different. If I go out swinging for steelhead and I don't get a fish or a grab, that's to be expected. Yeah, if I go out for trout and I can't get one trout, yep boy, is that infuriating oh yeah, it's, it's like.

Andrew Barany: 2:09:45

It's like going to the local lake with like night crawlers and not being able to catch a sunny yeah, that is like if I'm out there, you're a nymphing and I can't get one fish for a whole day and it seems like the conditions should be fine. That would be weird. That doesn't really happen, but yeah, yeah, but yeah, like like if you go out, it's like you know the river blown out with like seems like the conditions should be fine. That would be weird.

Mitch Paisker: 2:10:02

That doesn't really happen, but yeah yeah, but yeah, like like, if you go out, it's like you know the river is blown out with like three feet higher than normal water and it's all chocolate milk, it's like okay yeah, I understand I yeah, exactly I understand.

Andrew Barany: 2:10:13

I understand why they didn't catch a fish yeah yeah, I really have been like you said. You know that's a good way of like. I am excited for the springtime and I'm in steelhead season. I'm really excited to just cast man when. I go out there, I try to just put the fish aside and I've been getting like I've probably gotten a grab from something every time I've gone out now, which has been really satisfying, uh just in its own yeah, whether it's a big fish, a small fish, medium fish, a rockfish, yeah, those, those grabs are real too, man, rockfish lives matter, yeah, yeah, hundred.

Andrew Barany: 2:11:00

And you know just that, seeing the progression over the years of my steelheading ventures, swinging two-handed rod and learning about the materials, the temperatures, the you know flashy flies, not flashy flies, super dense flies, super sparse flies, things I can finally cast, things that are large, that I can finally cast that, just that progression alone every year has been so satisfying. I, like I said I plan to fish my whole life, so you know, during the winter and like going into the spring, if I haven't caught a steel head and I got that last month left where I'm going to try real hard and I at least get a handful of grabs, I'm still actually satisfied.

Andrew Barany: 2:11:55

Oh, oh, yeah, absolutely if you get a grab from a steel head and you know it was a steel head. On a fly you tied on a river that you picked and a run you swung and you picked the speed and you get that grab. Hats off to you you done, did it?

Mitch Paisker: 2:12:11

steelheading isn't about the amount of fish you land. It's about how many fish you like. Honestly. It's about how many fish you move right, like if you're fishing and you see it like and you're swinging a run and like you watch a steelhead, like push across current and like move over and check your fly out, like any like that get that gets your heart moving just as fast as, like you know, a hard grab, you know like, like it's. It's about how many fish you move and like touch versus how many fish you land.

Andrew Barany: 2:12:44

Yeah, like, if you're looking for numbers, you stick to nymphs. Oh yeah, if you want crazy grabs, you go to streamers. And if you want to put in work for that satisfaction of, just like you know, some craziness, you swing for steelhead. Right, if you wanted more fish, make sure you, if you have the opportunity to swing for salmon, do that as well, because you know a good good salmon on the fresh salmon on a swung fly is very satisfying. So, like I do, I do that for coho as well. I'll swing for coho and I like that Because, yeah, that tight-leg grab man, it's just that's literally what the fly would be missing for it to be my favorite thing out there. It's not a tight-line grab. Yeah, now, skating a fly, when you get grabs on a skating dry, I like that a lot.

Mitch Paisker: 2:13:45

Like skating a caddis or some shit like that.

Andrew Barany: 2:13:47

Skating a caddis or swinging. You know a midge that you don't necessarily see on the surface. It probably is in the first layer of the yeah.

Mitch Paisker: 2:13:58

So like, that's where you get into soft tackles.

Andrew Barany: 2:14:01

Like swinging soft tackles is essentially a tight line.

Andrew Barany: 2:14:04

Grab of a dry fly yeah, but it's like, because, like they're like this far under the surface, you know, yes, like and that's something, too, that I want to experiment more this year is soft tackles, because I've had people on my boat that want to fish south tackles. They fish soft tackles and I'm like, yep, that's sick, you know, it's so fun. It's so fun and it's kind of like a classic way of fishing trout too, yep, so that's something in the spring that I plan on doing.

Andrew Barany: 2:14:33

More on my boat is pushing the, the anglers that have the ability to swing, instead of euroing, even if it's still a nymph or a soft tackle. Or let's step it up to streamers, let's, let's learn about streamers, because then they can show up. You know my, my goal with my clients um, especially if they're getting into fly fishing and they want to do it on their own, it's like I gear it towards like a lot of conversation on how to go do that on their own oh, yeah, yeah yeah, you know, so instead a lot of like, more, more of like, the beginner knowledge and the nitty-gritty of like you know, like instead of just cast there.

Andrew Barany: 2:15:16

It's like, hey, where should you cast in that pocket coming up, yep, hit it.

Mitch Paisker: 2:15:23

Oh yeah, there he was yeah, nice, exactly you did that, you figured that water out where should you cast next?

Andrew Barany: 2:15:29

I haven't even landed him, I don't care. Where should you catch? No, yeah, yeah, yeah, but it is important to to like step out of those comfort zones, you know if? You're having a hard time casting with a big fly. Dial it down on the material. Figure out how to make a bigger fly easier to cast.

Mitch Paisker: 2:15:52

Practice with it you know if it's opening a bigger rod, get a bigger rod.

Andrew Barany: 2:15:58

That's true too. Just go spend more money. Um, yeah, I like the seven weight that I have now, but my next rod, I'm tempted to go an eight weight.

Mitch Paisker: 2:16:09

No, I got 13 I had a full size spay. I had a 13, 6, 8 weight and I was like this is dumb and I got rid of it because, like for me, yeah, because, like where I'm at, the only thing I can like viably see that I could catch on. That, versus my like 11, 6, 7 weight would be a king and, like the kings in alaska are like at a point where they're hurting bad enough to where, like, I never want to try to catch one. Um, so, like my seven, six or my 11, six seven weight can do everything I want to do with it. Fuck, my 12 foot six weight can do everything I want to do with it. Like I don't know, I yeah, I, I sold my eight weight and I don't foresee myself getting another, another eight. What actually fuck did I get it? No, I did buy, I did have to buy an eight weight recently because I was going to the knack knack. I was supposed to go to the knack knack for, like regularly, 30 inch rainbows on like very heavy sink tips.

Andrew Barany: 2:17:26

Yeah, and that's's. You know, having having an eight weight's always good. There's always a fish out there or a scenario where you'll want it. Yeah, the seven weight, two-handed 12-6 that I have. It's the chromer and I'm also using a piece of a Claymore in there.

Mitch Paisker: 2:17:45

It's a Frankenstein rod yeah, a little.

Andrew Barany: 2:17:47

Frankenrod yeah, dude, I love that 12.6. It's the perfect length for me on this river that I fish the most. I've grown accustomed to it. But I tried this other rod. I can't even remember the name brand it was yeah, it was an eight weight, but man it just. I never experienced a rod casting that well off the hop in spay fishing for me. Was it a Beulah? No, it wasn't a Beulah. No, it wasn't a beulah. It wasn't a berkheimer from I, my buddy, I believe. He said it's like a china, like, I think, from china, but not like cheap made like is it, is it an ebay rod, but dude no like I've heard good things about some of those ebay two-handers anyways, it's still a quite a bit of an expensive rod.

Mitch Paisker: 2:18:45

It's a grand and a half so I've heard good things about some of those eBay two handers.

Andrew Barany: 2:18:47

Anyways, it's still a quite a bit of an expensive rod. It's a grand and a half. So, oh, okay, okay, got it. Not not eBay status, but yeah it it. I casted it and I looked at my friend and I was like holy shit. And he was like yeah. And I was like yeah, and I was like that's what I want. I don't even know the name brand and that's what I want I he works at the shop, so I don't need to remember stuff. I just have to tell him hey, order me that rod up when I'm ready. Yeah, um, fuck, yeah, dude, yeah, so that was that was. You know, I haven't casted a two-handed berkheimer in a long time.

Andrew Barany: 2:19:20

I think with this level of casting ability that I have nowadays, I would appreciate it a lot more but, yeah, I definitely want to go into a little bit more of an expensive rod, just because like more of a custom kind of thing. Yeah, yeah, but I've been selling some rods and I'm being, I'm playing the patient game. Next year is going to be my buy some new stuff, buy new gear, new waders, new jacket. Um. So I know, I know that's coming and the spay rod is, but the Cromer or the Claymore, they're, they're good rod.

Mitch Paisker: 2:19:59

Yeah, they're not. I mean, I I had bad luck with the Claymore, um, but that's just. That was like a manufacturing defect in the blanks. But, uh, dude, I like Temple Fork, man, the LK Legacies by Temple Fork, I will fucking do or die by that rod. That like that's my 6 weight that I use for everything. And then I bought that 8 weight it's a 12 foot 8 weight in an LK Legacy. And man, like god, that rod's a fucking piss missile. Dude, I will swear by that rod and I'll fish it. Like I'll go neck and neck with you for fishing, like you know a high end sage, or like a Bueller or a Berkheimer, like I will hold that toheimer, like I will, I will hold that to your neck and I'll outfish you. I love dude, I fucking love that rod.

Andrew Barany: 2:20:49

I love it. You know you just get comfortable with something might not be for everyone, but you get that rod in your hand, the right line, the right sink tip, the right fly and you can just make shit happen. Yeah, distance is one of those things too I've been playing with this year. I'm not so worried about distance and runs that are worth fishing versus like a three to you know one run that you don't necessarily need to work hard the whole thing. Yeah, you know the juice. You know where it would happen, starting like way up above the head too and hitting that first bit of the run. Yeah, things like that, like as hard as steelheading can be, they're still just a big, anagimous rainbow.

Mitch Paisker: 2:21:41

They're in the river.

Andrew Barany: 2:21:44

If you put that fly in front of their face, you might not see what happens. You might not feel it, maybe it doesn't actually bite, but we're moving fish. We're out there, fish are being moved around. Just toss a stone fly, that's all you need. You should swing a stone fly out. That actually works so well. If you're you're nymphing stone flies, make sure you swing them out. Yep, yep, swing a stone fly out. I can't tell you how many clients I tell swing that out and then hold way, way bone fish. Yep, they. A stone fly doesn't necessarily, or it does crawl along the bottom. So if it gets in the current it's going to swim towards the bank. So basically, it looks like it's swinging already. So, like, swing your stones yeah, swing your stones folks swing your stones.

Andrew Barany: 2:22:36

I've never swung a stone fly and actually caught um a steelhead, but I have nymphed stone flies and they like those things quite a bit they.

Mitch Paisker: 2:22:48

I mean like, yeah, they're just a big rainbow, they eat bugs like yep, yeah.

Andrew Barany: 2:22:53

So sometimes it's just about not being in your head too much. Yeah, get out of there.

Andrew Barany: 2:22:58

Just enjoy the, the scenery as you swing through it. You know, you find I find a lot of the like notes that I take on runs that fish good at certain water levels. The more I gather that information, the better I become. I know, like on trout, I know the holes where to fish. You know when it's certain water levels. I know pockets that I don't think other people are very familiar with, um, so that's how intimate I want to get with steelhead, and to do that catching more steelhead would be more convenient. Yup, so just more time. You know I see where the the center pin guys fish. I know if I threw a Euro in there or you know a barber rig in there. I know where they be. So now I just need to learn how to get that that's. You know spay fly into those same spots.

Mitch Paisker: 2:24:00

Yeah, and I mean like you'll it comes in time, and like you know whether we're hitting fish or not, we're still fucking not behind a desk so yes, amen you're out there we should probably wrap this up though.

Andrew Barany: 2:24:13

Yeah, I went to the chiropractor today because my, my shoulders and my chest have been, um, pretty messed up, like from guiding and then just taking time off, not using my upper body, and just like, or I've been using it with my son and he's just, you know, throwing him around my neck, like throwing him onto the bed, all that stuff, and I just like started getting so tight, and today's they laid me down to ask me questions, they fondled my neck and then all of a sudden, they're like take a deep breath.

Andrew Barany: 2:24:52

And the Cairo. He's like oh man, this, that was the most cracks I've had in a while. I was like and I was just like kind of like vibrating, of like vibrating, just like, yeah, that was good, that was the spot like, oh man, it was so good. And he was like you're going to crash hard later to tomorrow because I was like man, I feel like I'm like so like vibrant things are bright colored and like it was like literally like I had something pinched and like it's hard to explain, but yeah, like things were less vibrant. And then when he did that and I sat up, got a major head rush and then I was like holy shit, shit's vibrant.

Andrew Barany: 2:25:32

He's like drink a lot of water and you're going to probably get sleepy and uh Hell, yeah. Well, good for you, brother. Yeah, you know, getting a little Cairo in there, yeah gotta be ready for the swing season.

Andrew Barany: 2:25:45

Our river is kind of high to be fishing right now. So, um, no, not kind of high to be fishing, but a little high for swinging. There's spots, but not a ton, yeah, yeah, um, but coming down here it's been on a steady drop for the last More, maybe like five days. Okay, so maybe enough Of this, and it will be Perfect if we get like. A ton of rain, maybe not. But, weather's been holding good. How's the weather been in Alaska, dude? It's been fucking warm.

Mitch Paisker: 2:26:22

Yeah, dude, last snow we got was Halloween. It's been holding good. How's the weather been in Alaska? Dude, it's been fucking warm. Well, yeah, dude, last snow we got was Halloween and it's been like averaging like mid twenties to thirties up until this past like week, and like it's been dude, it's been fucking warm, but uh, it's been nice. Cause then, like when you're fishing on the river, you're not like super bundled up and like you know you're not walking outside and breathing the air and immediately coughing because it's so cold. But other than that, like it's it's, it's been really nice weather, yeah, yeah hell yeah, mitch.

Andrew Barany: 2:26:57

Well, I appreciate you have or coming on I guess we didn't really do an intro. I'll do that on my own time? Um sure, yeah, but I appreciate you coming on. I guess we didn't really do an intro.

Mitch Paisker: 2:27:04

I'll do that on my own time?

Andrew Barany: 2:27:05

Sure, yeah, but I appreciate you and yeah, tight lines out there, my man.

Mitch Paisker: 2:27:10

Absolutely. Hey, happy new year and cheers to a lot more bent rods and full nets, man. Yeah, just a good time Just a good time Right on buddy, Absolutely you catch some Zs and I'll do the same. Yeah, thanks for talking to me, buddy.