Dead Drifters Society: A fly fishing podcast
Welcome to The Dead Drifters Society podcast, the ultimate destination for fly fishing addicts like us! I'm Andrew Barany, your host from beautiful Vancouver Island, BC, Canada. Join me as we bring together members of the fly fishing community to share stories, tips, tricks, and inspiration both on and off the water. Fly fishing is a lifelong learning experience that both elevates and humbles us. Let's dive into conversations about how this incredible passion has blessed our lives. Tight lines, my friends! Live on and fish on! For more information, email me at deaddrifterssociety@gmail.com
Incredible artwork by Riverwlkr: https://instagram.com/riverwlkr?igshid=MWI4MTIyMDE=
Dead Drifters Society: A fly fishing podcast
Connecting Waters: Stories of Steelhead and Kinship
What if you could transform your approach to fly fishing and achieve the perfect catch? Join us as we welcome back Jordan Treadway, a seasoned fishing guide from Washington, who shares his wisdom on everything from the art of slowing down your fly to the thrill of landing a steelhead. With personal stories and reflections, we explore the nuances of fly tying, experimenting with classic hooks, and those exhilarating moments when a fish bites during the hang. Jordan's anecdotes about family life and the balance between passion and responsibilities add depth to our conversation, offering listeners a heartfelt glimpse into the life of a devoted angler.
The episode unfolds with rich storytelling about the early steelhead fishing season, capturing the anticipation and camaraderie that define this pursuit. We delve into the evolution of casting techniques, emphasizing the power of muscle memory and the unique challenges of switching dominant hand positions. From discussing the best equipment for various fishing conditions to sharing tales of near catches and the beauty of nature, we paint a vivid picture of the joys and trials in the life of a dedicated fisherman. Jordan's insights are invaluable as we navigate the complexities of fishing while balancing business and family life.
In our exploration of the fly fishing world, we reflect on the importance of confidence, both in the fly and in one's own abilities. The episode highlights the significance of a well-thought-out swing technique, where controlling the fly's pace can significantly enhance success. We also touch on the joy of connecting through fishing, sharing meaningful moments with loved ones, and the rewarding experience of guiding others. As we conclude, we look ahead with excitement to future adventures, celebrating the spirit of exploration and the enduring passion for the sport that keeps us all casting forward.
I get a lot of clients that like, throw a cast and it's a shitty cast, and then they want to strip it in real fast and I'll be like, hey, fish that out, man. Like you know, the fish can't see our cast. They don't give a shit what our cast look like, they just want to see the fly doing the thing that they want to see. You know they want to see the fly slow in front of them for a long period of time and give them opportunities to try and strike at it. Strike at it. Um. So trying to fucking slow your fly down right when it hits the water, you know like actively trying to slow it down, not just like throw a man down and then kind of forget about what it's doing, but like moving your rod tip downstream, upstream, downstream, lifting it up, back, downstream. You know like doing whatever you need to do to try to maintain that slow swing. Welcome to dead slow swing.
Speaker 2:Welcome back Dead Drifter. On this episode we sit down with Jordan Treadway. He is a guide out of Washington. I've had him on quite a few times, good buddy of mine and we sit down, chat about swinging flies, profile and all that good stuff while we tie a fly. So had a lot of fun making it.
Speaker 1:I hope you enjoy 2,000 years ago and like like show people two people talking on a you know device like this. They would be like what is going on right now?
Speaker 2:you would definitely get um or something for like witchcraft and yeah instantly they're. They're like wait what you're talking to someone through this stone?
Speaker 1:yeah, witchcraft exactly witchcraft nice and easy throwing stones at us and shit and I don't like that.
Speaker 2:I've been hit with stones in my life and it's not my thing prefer to prefer.
Speaker 1:Prefer to get stones not be thrown to a stunt yeah, yeah, it's very different, very different.
Speaker 2:Now that you're tying it and has already inspired me, it's just latched onto my soul.
Speaker 1:I know it's like seeing someone eating a good snack or something. You're like oh man, it is. It's like I got to be a part of this.
Speaker 2:What are you?
Speaker 1:I'm going to tie up some fly. Yeah, I'm going to tie up some flashy stuff real quick, just creating a little dubbing ball with this cactus snow yeah, yeah profile profile.
Speaker 2:How is your fly tying?
Speaker 1:come from last year, that's a good place to start for yourself, not even like what others you know, just like yeah, I don't care what other people think, right it's just all about my own man shoot. I feel like my flies have definitely uh, what's the right word? They've, they've come alive, I guess that would be a good way to say it. Like I've learned how to like use the material, uh, generously yes now, when you say generous.
Speaker 2:All right, less is more, yeah, okay, that's what I less is, more less is more less way more the good old saying right, yeah, and then you're, you know you got more material for more flies, so it's, it's really kind of a win-win it really is when you unlock that but yeah, I think that has been.
Speaker 1:And then just like, uh, having confidence, I think that's the biggest thing, man, having confidence in your flies. Like I probably tie a fly that a lot of people would be like, yeah, I don't know about that, it's a real simple. It's like four materials, but I got confidence in it and I fish it with full heart confidence and I make my clients fish it with full heart confidence. Um, nah, I just believe in it. It's a flashy fly, you can't really go wrong with flash. Um, yeah, no, I just believe in it. It's a flashy fly, you can't really go wrong with flash. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I haven't really, you know, that's one thing I probably should have paid more attention to, but I never really took note of the flies that actually got me steelhead, yeah, head, yeah, um. That being said hindsight, but I've been trying so many different kind of things in the last few years, like smaller, traditional style flies, oh yeah, um, and they led to a lot of a lot of grabs.
Speaker 1:But zero landed fish Is there like on the old, the old classic style hook and it just, uh, I mean, those old school guys definitely got it done, Right? Or was it that there was more fish?
Speaker 2:you know, no, they got it done.
Speaker 1:They got it done and there was more fish. It was wild, it was both there, it was both layers.
Speaker 2:Sorry, yeah, man, the uh. The classic flies those hooks. They just kept getting thrown out of the mouth or like I'd get, I'd get like an eat on the hang. Almost every, every fish was right on the hang. There is one that was kind of in the swing when it was about to start hanging, but either way, most on the hang down it's almost like they were following it, yeah, and that's really hard to to work with it is, it's like uh, it's a, that's a very awkward encounter, you know.
Speaker 2:I mean yeah, 100, like what do you do at that point?
Speaker 1:because you got right in that transition zone, you know yeah, and then they, like they grab it.
Speaker 2:If you pull, you hook their nose, which you don't really want, and then you got to wait, and then you're you're waiting for the fish to do what you really hope it to do.
Speaker 1:It's still not guaranteed exactly all I would say is just hold on and pray hold on and pray, got it, I'm on it.
Speaker 2:Besides from that, though, life. Life is good, family's good.
Speaker 1:Family's good. Kids are growing, getting big Daughter's, five Son's about to turn three in February. Yeah, we got a full household. These days it's a very fun around here. How about you?
Speaker 2:Yes, sir, my son just turned five in December, so same thing on that. And then I got the 12-year-old who's doing 12-year-old things. There you go, yep.
Speaker 1:So you're right there too.
Speaker 2:Yep, I'm feeling it as well, you know, but it is a lot of fun.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I wouldn't trade it for anything. To be honest with you. No, love my life. Love my life right now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man, that's awesome.
Speaker 1:It's been good. Fishing's been good. We've been out fishing the last couple weeks and it's been good. It's been an early season, so it's the grind. We're not a lot of numbers around, but we've had a few encounters this early season. So it's the grind. You know we're not a lot of numbers around, but we've had a couple few encounter. We've had a few encounters this early season, which has been a blessing. Um and yeah, like just better things to come.
Speaker 2:As you know, the season gets later and later yes, sir, I too have had some encounters not on the swing, going after trout, and then touch one of these large fish and wish that I was swinging. It's a mixed emotion, because we fish for trout and once in a while there just happens to be a steelhead there gotcha and what kind of trout is your primary trout you're fishing for when we're guiding it's, uh, I guess, rainbows and browns.
Speaker 2:I mean, we're probably targeting rainbows more so, but if someone can can do what they need to, then yeah for sure, we're going to go after browns Nice. And then obviously in the mix we have the potential of just getting some browns anyways. So we usually see a few browns in a day, nice, and a decent amount of rainbows. So yeah, I know it was a great fishery this year. Nice. Fish were large Caught like many, many 20 plus inch trout.
Speaker 1:Nice, that's always promising.
Speaker 2:Yes, of all varieties.
Speaker 1:Now do you guys get salmon out there?
Speaker 2:Yeah, we had like an insane return. I was your return this year.
Speaker 1:Our return was insane all over the board. Yeah, just so we don't. We don't get a year run or a yearly pink run. We get it every other year, but every salmon species this year was, uh, in prime numbers. This year, um, chum return was really good, which was really promising because the last few years our chum numbers have been pretty poor. So to see that run, like all of us locals here were like super stoked on that and it was made for good fishing, good trout fishing as well, you know yep, yeah, I uh.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we got like a hundred thousand more chum than we normally do, yeah, so it was like a carpet of sorts.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're starting to see the remnants now of all the carcasses on the bank, uh, of actually how many there were, but just the encounters that we had during uh, trout, like you know, while we were trout fishing and stuff was was crazy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, it's good. That's. The whole coast had a great year. I heard someone say something about Alaska might have changed some rules around for salmon, or what not? For spring salmon.
Speaker 1:I'm not too sure on that end, but I thought I heard like a rumor. It could just be, uh, you know, just a rumor, that. But I thought I heard like something about like the trollers from like down here went up there a couple years ago and that's why we're starting to see like slow inclines of numbers and like I don't think they had a very good like coho return this year up there. So I wonder if that has any like anything to do with it.
Speaker 2:I don't know, but it's possible well, the sheer numbers that they really do pick up those boats. I mean I wouldn't put it past it that that's it's open. Yeah, 100, but yeah. So it's just breathtaking to see across the board. Good times um yeah, early steelhead season though, yes, sir, that's what we're on, right now, yeah, what's the? When do the? What's the earliest they start coming in for you guys?
Speaker 1:um, so really, I mean to be real with you. They swim throughout our rivers out here, you know, year round, but I would say people probably start focusing on them and, uh, you know, anywhere from late, late november, early december, into january. Um, it's like that early time frame that you're hoping to encounter them and then, uh, season usually opens up in like february, so early around here is like that december fish or january fish super rare, I think, to get them in november around here, but I've heard of it being done yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2:I would say I think we've talked, we've definitely talked about this, but yeah, it's like exactly the same out here. I mean, anything's possible, but December would generally be the earliest.
Speaker 1:Uh, that was my lucky calling. I got one in December this year which was fricking amazing. And uh, man, super lucky to have happened. Um, it was, it was fricking amazing. Yeah, man, super lucky to have happened. Um, it was, it was freaking amazing. Yeah, it's funny, like every, every fish that you catch you know, every side you catch, it's still that, that amazing feeling. You know what I mean. Like I'm super thankful to to encounter that.
Speaker 1:Sorry, I'm looking for my whip finisher not to ramble on like that no, no, worries man no man, it was tight, uh fucking fishing down a run and, you know, just entered the run and like, got grabbed by a coho right away. So our fishery, we have a late run, coho too. So we have uh fish that are coming in in december chrome, and all the way into like january can be chrome, okay. So it's really like a smorgasbord at this time of year where you could get, you know, a big bull. Try, you could get a coho, or you could get a steelhead out there.
Speaker 1:And I'm swinging down a run, uh, step in my buddy's up at the boat, um, hook into a coho. He comes running down and he's like, oh, dude, that's a coho man. Like, come on now. You know, he comes down and Put it in the net, let it go, and then he walks all the way back up to his boat. I walk back out in the run and rip out some line. I tried to just get back out to where I was fishing at before. So I tried to rip out as much line as I could remember, get out there, lay a cast out and like, two casts later, just mid swing, grab, you know, like what everyone dreams of, just mid swing right to a big run, just, and I was using a click ball, so it was a.
Speaker 1:It was a pretty sick, sick little 30 seconds, you know. And he goes on that initial run and then, uh, I got it close. My buddy's like, oh, it's probably a co, like I'm not coming down there again, and I'm like, oh, dude, no, like I think this is the real deal. He goes on the next run and my buddy goes yep, steelhead Comes running down, gets him in the net. You know, we fucking look at it. You know, real quick encounter. You know, take it out of the net, give it a kiss on the nose, let her swim away. And yeah, I don't think I'll ever forget it because just the run that I caught it in, I wanted to catch an early fish in this run for, you know, many years now, and then to have the dream happen and like after, you know, all the hard work pays off and everything, it was just super rewarding because it was pretty sick, oh, man, that's just a beautiful thing.
Speaker 2:Yes, that mid swing grab is just. You know, that is the epitome of what we're really after we accept all the other grabs, but like that that right into a run, oh man.
Speaker 1:Just right into, like not a backing run, you know, but like sure, almost to the backing, you know it was a good 30 seconds Like, and then stopped. It was like oh my lord.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, it's been two years for me since I've got one on the swing. I hooked 11 on classic flies Ooh, and lost every single one of them.
Speaker 1:So you're 0-11 right now 0-11.
Speaker 2:I did catch a juvenile one, I'd like to say dude you're 0 and 11 right now.
Speaker 1:0 and 11. I didn't catch a juvenile one. I'd like to say dude, you're owing your own. Oh, right now. You know, every time you get to the river you have an opportunity right yeah, I went today.
Speaker 2:I went today. I swung my little heart out. Um, I've been working on my cast too quite a bit, so my off. My right shoulder is definitely my dominant side. Um, yeah, consistent layout, nice and straight control right away, kind of thing. And then the left side, it really just depends I'll get in a zone and then I'll get way out of the zone, and then in the zone and then way out of the zone, unless I think, about it are you throwing like left these, your left hand on top?
Speaker 1:are you talking or just like cack hand type stuff?
Speaker 2:yeah, I guess cack hand, right where I just like I'm switching it around. I'm not actually switching my hands, I'm just like casting off the opposite. Got you, got you, do you, what do you do? Say that again what do you do? Do you do cac hand or do you uh?
Speaker 1:I mean, if I got river going right, I will put my left hand on top, you know, so I can do my traditional snap t? Um, but I kind of switch it up to everyone. So now I'll do like a Perry poke with my right hand on top so I can stay dominant with right hand Um. But I think I was up fishing with a buddy up in your neck of the woods and he put me through a little crash course while I was casting and man did he change up my cast, and for the better. Uh, just like I know you, you know Tim arsenal is right, yep, yeah.
Speaker 1:So like he's lines, yep, bridge lines, so he talks about. He talks about like a firing position and getting into that firing, like trying to break your habit and get into that firing position every time, you know, in the, you know like you're uh, shooting a bazooka almost I would would say, maybe not an exaggerate, but something along those lines and then really keeping my top hand armpit closed. So if I have right hand on top as I sweep around, I'm going to kind of pull my background around and really push that bottom hand out so it gets me into that firing position and then I really keep that armpit closed and I accelerate at a gradual pace. So I'm not just a zero to a hundred real fast, but it's more of like a steady uh, what's the word I'm looking for? You know it's a. It's a gradual power. You know it's a steady power. It's not just a zero to full power right away.
Speaker 2:So I like that, I'm going to try that, because, uh, thinking about that, just so how you're explaining it, I think I'm moving my elbow around, which, for you know, even single hand casting is garbage, um, but yeah, so you switch your. When you're, let's say, river left, you're casting with your right side, um, and then if you're going to river right, you cast, you switch your hands, okay, yeah, so I've taught myself to keep.
Speaker 1:You know, I put both my left hand on the upper grip and I put my right hand on the upper grip. I'm going to try it.
Speaker 2:I know that that's a thing I just never was exposed to it.
Speaker 1:It's like you know, until you like, once you get your brain wrapped around, like using your left hand, at like to sweep around and your bottom hand is your right hand. Now, once you like get your brain to wrap that around, it's actually quite easy to apply power with your bottom hand because it's your dominant hand. Wrap that around. It's actually quite easy to apply power with your bottom hand because it's your dominant hand. At that point right.
Speaker 1:So you're like, you're just really I don't know if for me it helps translate and I'm not very ambidextrous um, you know, like in life, but casting with my left hand on top has helped me out and it's actually helped me out casting on my with my right hand on top because it made me notice all the little weird, little like like automated things that I do with my right hand on top that I don't really think about now. You know that muscle memory aspect. Yes, making me use my left hand on top has made me really focus on what I'm doing and like focus on keeping my rod tip level as I sweep around and not dipping on the back end and coming, you know, climbing that hill, coming up at that 45 or whatnot I think, just, I think, just keeping my elbow in, just mentally, just sitting here, it makes more sense tim I've gone to a spade clay with him and, yeah, what a, what a guy.
Speaker 1:But dude, what a caster he's a. He's a great guy. Yeah, yeah, I think that was my, that was my biggest thing. Shout out to Matt Cause he really helped, helped me figure that out.
Speaker 1:And then keeping my elbow or my armpit closed, um, I used to do like the the bloody L, or have my fly hook my fly line as it flies out the bloody L, or have my fly hook my fly line as it flies out, right, yeah, um, and the one thing that keeping that elbow closed or keeping that armpit closed has helped me do is use, like I can throw as far as I want to now and apply as much power, because my line comes out over the top of each other.
Speaker 1:It's not coming. My line is coming out simultaneously as my rod tips going forward. So if you, if you go too fast, your rod tip goes forward and then your line has to catch up to it, which causes that like ricochet effect. So if you can figure out how to apply that steady power band you know to, uh, to your forward cast, that is what's made the difference for me, I think. And then that applies to like any rod now, so I can grab my little soft switch rod and do the same cast that I'm using my you know 13 foot nine weight, or you know 13 four nine weight or something.
Speaker 2:Um, so yeah, it's been a big game changer for myself oh yeah, I love that because you know it's fun to cast it, but it's just when you actually see the progression. You know, even from last year to this year I see it going better. So all these little bit of details, you know that you gather over time and see that improve, it's just so exciting.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So you're keeping your elbow in on your upper hand, yes, sir and then just really focusing on your nice, gradual sweep, keeping it nice and even nice and up. What line are you using? I guess that's another question. Say that one more time. What line are you using these days?
Speaker 1:you using these days. So I typically use opst setups, um, and I use those for guiding religiously because they're phenomenal for getting newcomers on uh or, you know, getting new people to be able to cast uh efficiently and be able to fish right away. Yeah, um, I have started using bridge lines by tim. Uh, shout out to tim and shout out to opst and the OPST boys out there, because they both produce great lines and so, yeah, I kind of mix it up on my smaller rods. I typically have the OPST setups, my like 11 foot and down rods, or my 11 and a half foot rods and then my 11 and a half to that 12, I don't really use 13 or anything like that. I typically end at 12.5 feet, but anything along those longer rods for myself. I typically have that torrent head on there right now, which is still a shorter line. I've heard a lot of good things from that.
Speaker 1:How do you like?
Speaker 2:the torrent. I've heard a lot of good things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's pretty good. I like the torrent. I've heard a lot of, a lot of good things. Yeah, it's, it's pretty good. I fished that a lot last winter and loved it, uh, and then just as just kind of continued to use it. It's like it's on my rod, right. So I basically have two setups with me.
Speaker 1:I have that rod rigged up with the torrent line and then I have my opst setup with a commando head, um, and I have them both kind of set up differently, like I have my uh, my bridge line is more for those longer bars for myself, you know the longer, uh evenly depth runs, um, just really searching through the runs. And then I kind of use my opst setup as like my uh, I like to think of it like you know, like I'm hunting, you know. So I really get in close quarters and I'm really hitting those like little bucket spots. You know the little 10 cast spots, um, I like to call them. You know little miniature uh features in the river, um. So yeah, I just kind of have two different setups in the boat most of the time, um, and kind of rock like that okay, yeah, I've been uh, I've been really experiencing the fist the last few years.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, and have you used it?
Speaker 1:I haven't used it, but I've had.
Speaker 2:I've heard good things about it yep, uh, no real complaints besides from I haven't actually landed a steel head, but I don't think it's the line's fault, but I sure would love to place the blame there, um, but yeah, no, it's actually been a pretty sweet line to work with it. Uh, it digs really well.
Speaker 1:That's good, like yeah, that's like three, three densities, right, it's like what say our intermediate flow and sinking, or something like that yeah, I think, flow, intermediate and then, like the end of it, sinks.
Speaker 2:but then you add the sink tip on as well. So, yeah, she digs, she digs really well. Um, so I like it. I used to use the commando and the groove quite a bit and I got lots of fish on those Lots. You know steelhead talk, so not necessarily lots, but lots. Yeah, I know what you're saying. Yeah and uh, no, they were, they were great lines. You know, if I kept my eight weight, I ended up selling my weight. Two handed it was 11, six so I got rid of the the groove.
Speaker 2:I'm looking to upgrade my, so I just use the chroma right now yeah and I'm wanting to upgrade into something a little fancier so like what?
Speaker 1:let me ask you a couple questions. What are you looking at? Are you looking at getting like a bigger stick? Are you still gonna stay in that like switch rod range?
Speaker 2:I think I wouldn't mind going to. I mean, a 12-6 is probably perfect for what we're working with out here. Um, I don't really think a 13 or a 13-6 is necessary, but I have thought of the idea now.
Speaker 1:I mean if I had to go for go ahead.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you say what you're saying Well, I was going to say, if I, if you're going to get like a bigger stick and you wanted to get something fancy like a longer rod, I would probably recommend getting one of those C and D rods, um, and then if you wanted to get like the switch rod range, you know, like that 11 and a half foot eight weight again, I would full-heartedly recommend getting the new opst, uh, the shs line, uh, rod line of the, uh, their lines is what I would recommend. Sorry, I was trying to do something, dude, I cannot multitask to save my life. It's okay, I'm trying to talk while doing something and I can't do it.
Speaker 1:That's why we fit, because we're like I need one thing to do, yeah, One thing only yeah, but their new 11.5-foot 8-weight, the SHS version, is pretty damn nice in my opinion. I put uh two nice chromers in the bucket the other day and it was uh, it handled them nicely. I was impressed. Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 2:I, uh, I've been looking at this one rod comp company nom. I tested it. I tested a rod um, like a week ago or so, and you know, when you get into a someone's car and you like, they're like, oh yeah, you can drive, and then you start driving and you're like this thing just doesn't feel like me, like it just doesn't feel like I could drive, you know, like my track. When I got into my track I was like ah, this is me, this is me, this is me, yeah, you know, that's what that Nom Rod felt like, like instantly was casting, like very just clean, like it.
Speaker 2:I don't know, I don't even know what it's called, but it just like it followed through very nicely. After like maybe a half hour of casting it I had it down and less effort. So it was really nice and yeah. So I was kind of pondering that. But yeah, just browsing right now I need to not actually buy anything.
Speaker 1:For a little bit we're trying to stack the uh, the shillings yeah, you guys are getting ready to come over our way, aren't you?
Speaker 2:I would in a heartbeat I don't know.
Speaker 1:Your guys' taxes are pretty bad up there too, so it's not going to be any different down here, brother.
Speaker 2:No, I don't think it would really matter to the.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would, just for the the nicotine not that I support nicotine yeah, no, we don't talk about that yeah, but I would still do it for that I mean, it'd make it a hell of a lot easier to go fish. Now, fuck, I have to go through that damn border, sucks yeah, yeah, I'm sure there is some positives and some negatives steelhead is steelhead, everywhere though. Yeah, steelhead is steelhead everywhere I've been.
Speaker 2:Uh, I've been really enjoying the intruders lately. Have you, yes, tying them, casting them? I've gone, so I like. Like I said, I I haven't landed a fish, but I've gotten a ton of grabs, like this year I've had at least two grabs from a steelhead on non-nymph related things. So when you get, a grab.
Speaker 2:What do you do, um? So one of them was like not mid-swing but like near the end, and it was just one pull. It was honestly a fly that its tail was a little longer and the hook wasn't as far back. It was an old fly but I liked it and so I feel like that might have been my issue, but it didn't come back for it, so it could have very well been a small trout. And then I did get um going through another run right behind like a nice boulder. I got another grab and that I just like waited and then it just like nothing came of it.
Speaker 1:Ah, so you don't like set the hook or anything like that.
Speaker 2:You just know I'm I'm, I am trained with the force I'm okay.
Speaker 1:I have to say out of all things considering.
Speaker 2:I go from like euro nymphing to streamer fishing so I'm used to like I don't set good, now have I for sure?
Speaker 1:yeah, we all.
Speaker 2:We all have done the rod twitch when they do yeah yeah, um, but I did get a juvenile steelhead early december and that that was like I was swinging a run. It finally came low enough to stand there as I was, as we're approaching the final end of the swing into the hang. I got something that like started munching on the fly and then my heart was just like racing and I like feel it and I just very gently bring my rod tip not even tension, just rod tip towards the bank and a few seconds later it just kind of opened up, started running on my new click and pull reel. So I was like super excited first time. I well, no, I guess, like I've heard it a few times, but like that was, you know, I thought we were in it to win it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was the first one that was like ripping.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like, I got coho's but they didn't. They didn't really run, they would like pull a little bit, but they weren't like running. And then I got some browns and they didn't run either. So I was like, come on, just like, and um, yeah, so that was sweet. I landed it like you know, 17 inches is probably the biggest you could call that thing but it ran hard three times and I just I kept waiting for it to like open up. I was like fuck, we're like I didn't feel him and I thought he'd be like coming towards me after the run. So I was like what's going on? And then, yeah, it turns out it's a small fish, but it was a clean chrome.
Speaker 1:That's what I said, little fishy.
Speaker 2:And I respected that no-transcript.
Speaker 1:So in case something's sitting on the outside lip you know the little outside bucket and uh, coming through this in the morning time and uh, you know I'm marinating my fly in this riffle. Next cast, I swing it through and like, right before it gets to the riffle, right on that little deep little, uh, little bucket right there got ripped on by a nice, I don't know like 13, 14 pound chrome hen. Uh, does a really nice run um right away. And then, uh, fight it for a little bit and then get it in. Um, got it in actually pretty quick. Uh, got the fish, the fish in, let it go.
Speaker 1:And then we go throughout the day and me and my buddy were like, all right, yeah, we're good, like let's, you know, let's just push down towards the boat launch and then if we see something that we want to fish, we'll fish it. It was pouring down rain, you know. It was like been a long day already. Um, so we get down there and we see, I see this riffle and I'm like, dude, I have to hit this. You know this spot real quick, let me get. Uh, you know, let me get a couple casts into it at least. Well, we get to talking and, uh, same thing like what you were saying right now.
Speaker 1:I was, uh, swinging through, lay my cast out, do my pullback man start feeding the line down, and I feel something hit my fly and I'm like, oh god, like that I don't know if that was a rock or a bull trout or whatnot and it hits it again. And swinging through it hits it again and I think it did it like three times. And then, right before I was going to like lift my fly up, this fish just ate, and just went berserk, um, really hard run. And then it kind of went limp for a second and I was like what's going on? And it's swimming upstream towards me and I get it closer to me. And, yeah, it was maybe like a I don't know a nine pound little buck, you know, just a little fired-up little chrome dude, yeah. And then, yeah, but pretty cool to like feel them, you know, chew the gum and then actually connect with them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it felt good, considering it had been so long, like I got them on nymphs. I even got one on a streamer last year, so that was cool, and then streamer steelhead huh yeah, I mean I was basically swinging it so, but I was also streamer fishing for browns and it just kind of linked up. It was uh, it was a celt. So I got it off pretty quick and sent it on its way.
Speaker 1:Let it go back, and it happened, it happened, you know.
Speaker 2:Hey, if we take what we can get while we're in a slump. I don't even know if it's a slump anymore, because I like that little guy, I'm like, ah, might as well count him just to sleep at night better.
Speaker 1:I mean, did he go to the ocean one time?
Speaker 2:probably not. I feel like not yet. Maybe I'd like to. I would like to say yes, but I don't think so. He's on his way. He's on his way. He had eye dreams. His, his, his runs were what were kind of cool, because like the way he ate was nice, um, it was super playful, right, like I felt it all the whole time, him chewing on the fly, like you know, pondering his life and then what do I do here?
Speaker 2:yeah, what do we do here? And then that little bit of tension from just bringing my rod tip to the bank and him opening up, I was like I've I've fished next to rainbows like small rainbows. I have never had a rainbow grab like that.
Speaker 1:Then go crazy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's possible, but then also no spots under his lateral line, like just chrome as shit. Like you know, it was what I believe to be pretty.
Speaker 1:He caught. He caught little brother he was. He was going to go out.
Speaker 2:I caught little brother, so yeah, caught he caught little brother he was, he was gonna go out.
Speaker 2:I caught little brother. So, yeah, so my first, my first steelhead on a classic fly not landed, obviously, but um, that thing was a monster and it hit the like so soft same exact thing as I just described there, where it just is like playing with it, um, for so long and like all the grabs I've been getting have just been those. So that's why I'm going to bigger profile, because now I'm like, well, screw, a little soft grab if I can try to get someone to at least hit it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you need to get, get a big profile and get a player that wants to kill the fly. Yes, we don't want to. We don't want to handshake, we want to.
Speaker 2:We want a straight execution yeah, so the classic flies were really nice to cast. I'll give them that. Really nice to cast and honestly a lot of fun to tie. Took probably longer than an intruder, but super fun to tie.
Speaker 1:Um, but yeah, I'm ready for that aggressor to come remind me what it is all about fishing the same steelhead fly for the last two years now and it has produced fish time again, time again and I can just continue to fish it. It's kind of just like a. It's like a hobo spay and a prom dress, like had a baby, and then they came out with this little fly right here it's. It's kind of like uh, I don't know, there's a thousand different variations, I'm sure I can. I call it the the jackman, like me and my homies call it the jackman, just because that's I don't know if it's just a funny name my buddy came up with and there's a Creek out here that we have fished last year that was good and yeah, it was.
Speaker 1:It's been cool, but it's been a solid fly and it's caught a lot of fish and I'm going to continue to use it. I tie it in like a thousand different variations see, and I think I feel like that's.
Speaker 2:You know, I haven't had that opportunity to really get comfortable with one fly pattern gotcha I tied a lot of hobo spays and, honestly, that's what I caught most my steelhead on that. And skulpins yeah yeah, I've caught enough steelhead on Sculpins to know Sculpins work.
Speaker 1:We get a lot of dead Sculpins this time of year out here. Okay, I don't know, it's my own little scenario that they kill them, but I feel like the steelhead don't like Sculpin.
Speaker 2:No, and I've had a friend who's told me he's been watching summer runs and he saw a sculpin sculpin in the system. It was like christian clear water and he just like saw this like fish near um a red, and the steelhead came and like thrashed it and then it just like floated down the river and it didn't even eat it, it just killed it. So I would agree. I mean, they grow up with those things, you know, trying to kill them, trying to kill them, haggling them the whole time, and then they come back from, you know come back from the ocean.
Speaker 1:They're just like yeah who was it?
Speaker 2:david flaherty, we would call it going to the yard. Yeah, for real, he just got locked up for like 35 years and got out yeah, now he's this fucking juice, arnold schwarzenegger like fucking I'll be back, yeah straight up.
Speaker 1:That's a good ass analogy. He went to the yard.
Speaker 2:That's funny yeah, just go out there like a two saltfish that's looking bad.
Speaker 1:A three saltfish like look out for you, oh boy, four saltfish yeah, better luck next time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, but yeah, this is so.
Speaker 1:It's been probably at least a year since we've talked, I feel yeah, I think it's been about a little longer than a year now, I think. Okay, um, but yeah, man, been freaking. Things have been going good. For me it's been a steady growth, which is good. Guiding good um, doing like fishy stuff has been good. Um had some cool opportunities of doing some like freaking, like photo type stuff with my family and stuff which has been cool. Um, yeah, we've had a lot of blessings. This last 24 had some unblessings too.
Speaker 1:I lost my grandpa um last january, which sucked. Um, thank you very much. It was a tough one but he's a good dude and I get to see him. It was cool. Like before he passed, a couple of days before he passed, he was like I was like yo, at least, if you, if you, you know, pass away pops, come back as an Eagle. Or, like you know, come back as a steelhead, let me know you're here. And like I swear to God and I and I have like almost video proof of this, every steelhead that I've caught since he's passed away there's been like an Eagle in a tree or like flying overhead or like right near, like right around the corner or something like that. Now I know we get a lot of Eagles up here in that time and uh, but it's been. It's been pretty cool to be able to like now my steelhead fishing is like going to say what's up to my grandpa again you know, and it's been pretty tight, dude, I think you're onto something.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's been pretty cool. I would agree with that man. Well, that's sweet, you know, catching fish and hanging out with the gramps.
Speaker 1:Yes, sir. Yeah, it's been kind of it's been funny too, because, like the steelhead, time is such a precious time and like people want to go out fishing but now it means something different to me now. So like I'm getting like a little more depth here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, here, moving forward, even last year, like I didn't, I didn't guide last year, I only took out a couple like really close clients that fish with me very, you know, very often. And uh, I think, like moving forward, my steelhead seasons are going to be like the homie clients, you know, like the people that I get along with and can have a good time with, um, because I guide summertime and I guide for salmon species and it's a grind and you know steelhead time is my favorite time of the year and and, yeah, I think I'm going to are you?
Speaker 2:are you still doing another job construction?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So we still got my, we still got our plumbing company.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was going to say plumbing, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sweet, and that is booming right now. We've added since the last time we talked, it was just me, my dad and my brother, and we've added three trucks to the company um so good for you guys we've picked up a lot of good like custom home island work that we've been knocking out and uh.
Speaker 1:so yeah, I've been kind of doing a thing where, like, I'm just gonna kind of work my four days a week that I work and then fish for three days in the wintertime and then in the summertime I'm gonna grind guiding and grind plumbing, so that I can do it in the wintertime and then in the summertime I'm going to grind guiding and grind plumbing so that I can do it in the wintertime like this.
Speaker 2:I love it, man, pretty cool. I uh, yeah, I'm on the no construction this year there's I might do some days, but I don't have to. Uh, I'll float it. So yeah, now I'm guiding full time, but it's seasonal, so since the mainland a lot of it is glacier runoff, that's like summertime stuff, and then for the island it's all rain fed.
Speaker 2:So that takes care of my winter season. So, yeah, now I'm doing three months in Cranbrook and then everything on the island, and it's assuming nothing goes down, um, it's enough to sustain me, assuming I'm smart with my money, sure. And then, uh, I'm supposed to get trained on the columbia in the next few years.
Speaker 1:Oh, hell yeah, dude yes, sir um, so that will be fun.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's going to be like um, non, and they're rainbows, they're very large rainbows back way back in the day when the dams got put in, um, there's steelhead spawning way up it, and then the dams locked them in, so then their babies became, you know, non-steelhead steelhead rainbows and rainbows, rainbows, non steelhead steelhead rainbows. And so, yeah, they're just these big, big, big fish like 24, 20 plus inches.
Speaker 1:This fly right here, we'll do you good.
Speaker 2:You should take a photo with your cell phone and send it to me. I got you, thank you. Yeah, I got you. I got you my video's all distorted.
Speaker 1:I've been just doing my thing. It's been tight, well, and it's nice to have your favorite fishery for you, you know. Exactly.
Speaker 2:And I'm a proud supporter of that that. I think that's a really good idea. That's kind of how I'm trying to set it up for myself.
Speaker 1:Is that I have time to swing and not feel you know like I'm supposed to be doing something else you almost feel kind of guilty when you're out fishing by yourself and not like taking people fishing.
Speaker 2:But on a, on a monday or like a wednesday like today, I was by myself just just swinging runs and I was like wow, there's not anyone I know right now that could be swinging with me. I have a few, a few friends that don't work, uh, traditional hours and they're able to, but you know, to go out during the week is quite nice. I mean it's still relatively busy because it's seal head season, but yeah, um, I feel less pressure to move down runs and stuff like that. If I see someone, it's like whatever.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're kind of like yeah, just go ahead and work it, I'll work behind you. Yeah, I've been kind of on that like late program too lately on the uh last couple years, just not really rushing in the morning.
Speaker 2:if I start around nine or ten, I'm fine with that, let you know. The super early birds pass you or get in the water, fish their runs and then by the time I show up you know I've been able to see my kid in the morning. Yep, do my stuff.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:You know, have coffee, get out to the river in a timely manner not forget nothing, you know. Literally nothing. Yep out to the river in a timely manner. Not forget nothing. You know literally nothing, yeah, and and then start fishing with no one around me, because everyone went out super early.
Speaker 1:Yes, sir, yes, same thing and honestly, like I don't know about you, but like I feel like a lot of my still had come like middle of the day I've never caught one earlier than like 11 am. Yeah, I look at a lot of my pictures and it's like 11, 1130, 1215, 1245. You know, I've had a couple of like in that three to four o'clock range but I think a lot of mine come that like 10 to one time frame.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would agree with that. I would say, like my one buddy always says, it's. What does he say? He says I think it's 12 to 4. That's his window, 12 to 4. He's like if I'm out past 4, there's no point. If I'm out past four, there's no point. Now I have caught steelhead later and I'm sure it's possible. But you know, like we said, it's nice to see your family in the morning. It's nice to you know, get out of bed and not feel tired. Yeah, 100%, just normal kind of stuff, because it's already a lot. You know, I don't know how old you are. I think you're about the same age. Yeah, so you know we're not getting younger. No, no.
Speaker 1:Being able to like sleep in a little bit in the morning time. Get up, it's pretty nice. Yeah, 100% Pretty nice.
Speaker 2:What's anything else?
Speaker 1:What's like a big tip on running or running going through runs that you've kind of come to gain over these years I mean shoot, there's so many tips that I would give, like the newcomer, but I would say like just focusing on. It's like a two-part answer. I would say focusing on fishing your fly and not your casting, and then focus on really trying to slow your fly down out in the middle of the river when your cast lands, instead of trying to get your fly to sink or, you know, to try to get your fly down throughout your cast. Um, I don't know what you call it, but I kind of call it like I I throw. I tend to throw like a square or plum castle, kind of call it like I I throw. I tend to throw like a square or plum castle, kind of like you know, 90 degree cast straight towards the middle, um, and then what I'll do is I kind of do a thing that I call poking around the corner or kind of like lifting my rod tip up towards the middle of the river and just allowing my, my sinking line and my sink, or my sinking line, my sink tip, to kind of cut through the water like like hot butter, instead of kind of get dragged by my shooting head through the water, um, and by achieving that, you know, you kind of tend to swing with a big bow in your line, um, and that, just for me, has been like the single biggest game changer.
Speaker 1:Um, from like feeling that I'm fishing effectively and feel that I'm fishing my fly effectively, um, I had a homie tell me like it's like kind of like trying to feel behind the rocks with your fingers, and, uh, that's probably the best analogy is because, like, once you really try and focus on fishing your fly out there, it lands, um, it tends to fish better throughout the swing as well, because you kind of find that, that groove or you kind of find that speed in the line that you need to have consistently throughout that swing to present, uh, you know, like a broadside presentation to the fish.
Speaker 1:Um, and so, yeah, that's probably my biggest tip, like all that, all that yabbering that I just did, I would just say, like, focus on a broadside presentation and by doing that you're gonna have to throw a cast, like what I just explained, and try and do, uh, the mending or the holding your rod tip up, like what I just explained, to try to achieve that. Um, I think, I think that is the best way to swing. You know, get your fly slow and swing it slow.
Speaker 2:That's the best way to do that I've noticed that one of my good friends, I've been paying, I've been fishing with him and I've been noticing the same thing. He's really casting like basically across the river, whereas I kind of play around with it a little bit more, but uh, if it's really fast I would always cast more down river, assuming that it would be too fast, and like throw my line away or, you know, create too much of a big bow. But the more I've been casting to the middle of the river, like a slight down, but like more into the middle of the river, um the swing, just like it stays straight throughout it. It's crazy. It's mathematically impossible for me with my small brain to explain it, but it works and I never really thought, so I've been working.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've been working on that, so that's cool to hear, because that's definitely something that I've uh kind of picked up. Fishing the fly that's really important too, that's that's something I needed to hear I think people like I get a lot of clients that like oh good, good sir no, you, you continue.
Speaker 1:Oh no, I was just gonna say I get a lot of clients that like, throw a cast and it's a shitty cast, and then they want to strip it in real fast and I'll be like, hey, fish that out, man. Like you know, the the fish can't see our cast. They don't give a shit what our cast look like, they just want to see the fly doing the thing that they want to see. You know, they want to see the fly slow in front of them for a long period of time and give them opportunities to try and strike at it. Um, so, trying to fucking slow your fly down right when it hits the water, you know like actively trying to slow it down, not just like throw a man in and then kind of forget about what it's doing, but like moving your rod tip downstream, upstream, downstream, lifting it up, back, downstream. You know like doing whatever you need to do to try to maintain that slow swing is uh like for me that my numbers started increasing when focusing on that. And I have a buddy too that uh is I call him like yoda out here. He's just a, he's like a robot when he casts. It's the same cast. You know he. He's super proficient, yeah, super proficient. Um, and yeah, just him explaining that to me.
Speaker 1:Like that, keeping your rod tip up so that you know you create less drag and just kind of allow your, your sinking line or your sink tip to just cut through the water, um, yeah, it tends to work out pretty good and I think I don't think a lot of people focus on that.
Speaker 1:They think like, kind of, what you just explained is like if the water's faster, I need to do like a 45 degree downstream cast or you know something along those lines.
Speaker 1:And I think what uh, here and people explain to me is like, if you think about it, like if you're looking at a pencil straight on, like straight at the point of the pencil it's a little thing you're looking at right, but if you turn that pencil sideways, it's a much larger object now that you're looking at. So think about it like that when you're swinging your fly is, if you throw that 45 degree downstream, your fly comes down, you know, comes tight, real quick, real quick, and then your line straight downstream of you swinging across and you're basically looking at your fly right at the butt of your fly, and I've been trying to focus on throwing that big belly in my line so that my fly comes across sideways in front of the fish instead of like straight down. You know what I mean. Um and so that really like trying to visualize that what your fly is doing out there, help me out, and then that helps me explain that and helps, I think, helps my clients envision that as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, that's really good man. I did that for streamer fishing because I started really imagining what I'm doing in the water. Steelhead is so funny because it's still a rainbow trout. They're in there and they're eating. It's not that hard to trick one, assuming you got your fly in front of it. But we can put so much ideas into our own heads being like has to be, like this cast that like pulls out of the reel, or you know, the fly has to have this when it's like. When I first started, my flies were like one full pack of marabou with a with a cone on it, exactly, and I got a steelhead, I got a couple that with that stuff. You know, yeah, yeah. And so I'm, when I'm out there, I try to think less.
Speaker 1:But yeah, fish, fish, the fly, more that is you know and I know this, but I need to hear it again, I think, honestly too, like the biggest tip that people should be given is just be confident. Be confident that there's people out there that are swinging a fly, just like you, that catch gazillions of steelhead throughout the year, right, swinging a fly. So just know that the process works. You just need to continue with the process and have that process work.
Speaker 1:Fishing with confidence is like one thing for me. That is, that I try to preach with people, you know, to people and like try to have fun and keep their spirits up, because when people are having fun, they typically seem to be more confident in what they're doing. Um, and I've noticed like that that confidence like trickles through the rod, through the line, down into your fly and then connects with the fish with that. Fishing with confidence is a big thing for me, no matter what fly you're using. I don't really have a favorite fly or favorite color or anything like that. I just try to fish. I try to forget about what fly I have on and just fish whatever's on the end of my line. You know the best I can possibly fish it.
Speaker 2:And it's like that's.
Speaker 1:That's kind of helped out, helped out. The mental. Mental aspect of fishing is like always guessing. You know, like, oh, what line do I use? What sink tip do I use? What this, what that? How much leader, what pound test do I use? You know, do I put dumbbells on? Dumbbell eyes on? Do I put a cone Too dumbbell eyes on? Do I put a cone? Too much shit to think about. It's like just get out there and keep your fly in the water and fish whatever fly you have on the end of your rod as the best you can. And if you don't know how to do that, you need to need to go take a lesson from someone that knows how to do that so you can gain that confidence, like expedite that confidence, um, and I think for like the new, new uh fisher out there, that growing that confidence quicker um is going to help you out in your fishing career, I think.
Speaker 2:In my opinion, yeah, no, that's, uh, that's good advice. It's definitely something that you know the the more you get out great. But if you do have the opportunity to fish with someone, that is much better than you uh, whether it be a guide or just someone you've met that those little bits of knowledge you gain, um, play out in the in the long run dramatically. I mean, yeah, yeah, knowledge is power, but when you're you know, if we, if I tell you like you do this and it'll help your cast, great. But like if we're on the water and and I explained it to you to the point where you actually started doing it- then we're in this other round.
Speaker 2:Yes, a whole different story. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, I mean, oh, I was just going to say that I'm uh, I'm doing some steelhead trips this year and I've hooked steelhead with clients, um, in past years, not really targeting them. So it's, it's kind of a big jump for me just because, like coming from trout fishing going to steelheading, oh boy it's, it's a different realm. So I, like you know, for myself I don't you know, in march I definitely see fish and sometimes in February, but you know, early stuff is definitely like one of those uh, different grind you know.
Speaker 2:So we've uh, we've definitely told the people that have been wanting to go on and and try that it's like you know, this is still steelheading, like you, you fish trout with us, but now you're going steelheading Like have you done this before Because it's a different thing. You know, this is still steelheading, like you fish trout with us, but now you're going steelheading Like have you done?
Speaker 2:this before, because it's a different thing. You know Like there is a chance you don't see anything. So my question to you is when you're with clients keeping the mood light I mean for trout when fishing gets low, I can pull up a bit of conversation, talk about life, you know, talk about theory, or maybe they want to learn about knots. What do you feel like you do for the steelhead? I mean for steelhead.
Speaker 1:Same thing, couple things, I mean. Yeah, yeah, I always I'm like when I'm out on the river I'm a real talkative person, so try to keep the conversation from run to run. I'll try to keep the conversation going, but I also have a know hot coffee on the boat or like some snacks or something like that. You know, keeping people fed or warm is always a positive thing when you're freezing out there. And then I also try and preach a lot of or try and talk about like the river and you know, like the fish and why we do what we do. You know and like try to get, uh get people to realize that you know it's not about the numbers when we're out, still had fishing, it's more about like the experience. Um, so I really vet people before I take them out.
Speaker 1:Still had fishing where I like I'll ask them you know what's your? You know what's your uh plan to get out of this trip. Like do you want to catch a thousand fish or do you want to go out? And like, try to learn something that day, because that'll kind of dictate, like I guess, how the trip's going to go. For one, what kind of client you're getting. And then two, like how much energy you need to put into that client.
Speaker 1:If they're one of the clients you know that needs to catch a fish. You know swinging a fly fly the way that I do it is probably not going to be the most efficient way for someone to try to catch a fish. So that would be like my first conversation topic. But most of the time I'm just trying to crack jokes and I talk a lot of shit when I'm out on the water. So like if someone throws a bad cast, I'll like call them out on it. You know, just like I try to set the friendly vibe up right at the boat launch. So you know when I do start talking shit to you out on the river you don't get like your feathers ruffled up or get all mad or something so um that's probably like my biggest.
Speaker 1:You suck yeah yeah, like whoa dude. It's like seven o'clock in the morning. What are you doing?
Speaker 1:but yeah, that's probably like my thing is I just try to be like over the top. Not over the top because I'm not like a fake person, but I just try to be real with people. I'm like yo, like this is a hard sport that we're doing. You know you've chosen the hardest way to try to swing. You know to try to catch a steelhead is swinging a fly. There's a, you know, I'm sure there's other. You know more efficient ways. I'm sure other people would beg to differ. But but yeah, I just try to be realistic with people, set the expectations up at the boat launch or on the phone call before we get to the boat launch.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that is a good point. I'm on the same page. I mean, I definitely befriend my clients as quickly as possible and all that. So hot coffee, that's a nice touch. We do hot soups for lunch there you go, uh, during the winter, so that kind of kind of is the same idea, where it's like, you know, if you're cold and it's a tough day of fishing, you got something to look forward to like.
Speaker 1:It's exactly, it's like hey you got some snacks or you got something to look forward to, like it's coming. It's like, hey, you got some snacks or you got something that I can keep myself entertained with. There we go.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly. So when you're swinging runs, you obviously pull your boat somewhere and they get out and they they walk the runs and do it properly. I'm assuming Right. Or yeah, yeah, how do you approach a run with your raft, even if you're in a single-man raft, I bet you're still thinking about what you're doing.
Speaker 1:So like I'll try to paint a picture, so like if I'm coming down the river and I have like a long riffle going into a nice, like a nice long bucket-y run for me, what I've been trying to do now is I like fishing like above the riffle.
Speaker 1:So I think about like the fish that have moved out of the riffle and are kind of chilling out in the tail out, um, so what I'll do is I typically will pull, maybe like a football field, or we we have a big river out here, so like I'll pull like a football field above those riffles, uh, and then try and really creep along the bank and get my boat semi close to the riffle, you know, above it, but I'm not really blowing through any of my water, um, so I, long story short, I park at the head of the run, um, okay, typically, and the reason I do that, um, is I don't want to go park my boat down at the bottom and then walk up to the top and then, for some weird reason, my boat floats away and like I don't get to see it, you know so yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:So it's also like insurance, yeah if I park at the head of the run, I can at least try to like swim out to my boat if I need to go grab it or something. So that's like really why I do that.
Speaker 2:But hey, jordan, why is your boat moving down that run so quick? Just be like.
Speaker 1:Oh hey, that looks like your boat. Dude, it's like, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:And there's one time it was like high water. I was pulling out of the a spot or like, um, going to go get my truck, and as I was backing my truck up, I kind of noticed that I was like, oh man, my boat's not really like right up on the bank like it should be, and as I like whatever, I'll just get out and make sure it's in position, and I I literally walked up to my raft as it was about to get caught by the current and like grabbed it and that was my first lesson to like you always leave scope out. It was in a little bay with like no flow, but somehow there was enough flow that it and the anchor was just the length of it, and then it was just hanging and like by the literally three more seconds of me, maybe like 10 more seconds of me not noticing and yeah, I would have had to jump in the river, yeah exactly.
Speaker 1:I've had a couple close calls like that too, and that's kind of why I taught myself to just park at the head. And then I always, when I hop out of my raft, I always pull out extra rope and then I drag my anchor to shallower water that's like a very stern habit that I have right now is like I I have weird ocd when I like get in my raft. I'm like I have to do things the way that I do it, because if I don't I'll forget something. Man, it's not worth it, Right?
Speaker 2:No, no exactly At the end of the day, if you're like, I mean, that's our livelihood, right there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, trying to float.
Speaker 2:That's not cool. Things are expensive nowadays, so dude you gotta I uh, yeah. Yeah, the raft is doing good. How's your raft holding?
Speaker 1:we got the same raft, which is kind of cool. It's good, and I think we got it still loving it same time.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, dude um, how do you have your setup so close? Um, so I did end up getting uh stands, or I guess I got the full bar in the front. The full d bar, yeah, yeah, um, did you have the half one or no? I?
Speaker 1:have the, I have the full d bar for the front and then I have a? Uh, I use a cooler as my rowing seat right now, which I'm going to switch that out for a dry box here soon. Um, and then I have, uh, the back platform and standing bar or lean bar in the back to the little Y one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So I got basically the same setup. Now I have a dry box. I mean my buddy made it out of a, an old toolbox for, like, the back of a truck. That was sick, so it's aluminum. I had the box already. So my friend just we like he's really good. He's, like you know, certified as shit in that realm of metal and pipe fitting and nice, all that.
Speaker 2:He's working on all the cruise ships and military ships and whatnot so it was a cakewalk for him, um, to actually do it, and then he put uh kind of like mounts on it and I bolted it down. So it's good that obviously adds a weight. But my my uh trailer is well well put together and works really well. It doesn't make the job too hard for me nice.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I just just got a new raft trailer like three months ago. It's brand spanking new.
Speaker 2:So super thankful yeah yeah it's nice I, uh, I have been looking at a new raft though, yeah, and I might bite the bullet. We got the shop that I work for in the Kootenays. They get a really good deal on us. Have you seen the new slipstream?
Speaker 1:Yeah, the NRS slipstreams.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Those are pretty sick.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the only thing I really like about it is the floor on those. Have you seen that man? Yeah?
Speaker 1:they.
Speaker 2:It's like a hard it's like a paddle board yeah, yeah, so you can stand up.
Speaker 1:You don't need like stand or uh, standing platforms, anything like that, right, but it does come with them anyways.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So it's pretty nice I might do that.
Speaker 2:I might get that silvus raft, uh, but the raft is still doing fine, so I don't necessarily need to yeah if I was looking. It's hard to know, right how long do you? Um, that's kind of what I was wondering, like how long do you think you're going to run this before you want to get a new one, probably like a year or so more.
Speaker 1:To be honest with you, yeah, I want to get a little bit big.
Speaker 1:I got the 12 foot uh tributary, and so I want to get just a little bit bigger of a raft and I I've hopped in a couple of the super pumas lately a couple, my friends have them and those fucking row really nice, like against the weird little cross currents that you know, like a creek dumping in real hard or something like that. Um, those things track on the top of the water so nice. I don't know if your tributary does it, but does it seem like it grabs those, um, like the undercurrent real, real hard, or like, is it your boat have a lot of like uh, uh, what is that? Like where the?
Speaker 2:where the word currents you know the swirls in the river. Can you feel those as much on your boat? When it's like you like, it wants to kind of grab your boat a little bit.
Speaker 1:I know what you mean.
Speaker 2:I got the 13.6 and so it's a little bit bigger. Um, I do feel it, but let's say like in my water master, like I would get spun around right on some of those currents.
Speaker 2:So I'm assuming that's what you're talking about, just like probably water hydraulics, yep, um, so I do think a bigger raft. The nice thing about the split stream, uh, is the like so our boats are pontoon around like a full, you know, oval around and our floor is sewn on, basically weaved on. Yep, the new nrs split stream. It has a piece of a material that goes all the way around from the tubes, all the way around the floor to the other side of the tube. So it's like they got the same thing going, but then there's no, it's like a leaf on the water. Yeah, so it's like they got the same thing going, but then there's no, it's like a leaf on the water.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it's like a flat bottom instead of like that area that water gets trapped into completely flat. Yeah, that's cool, like a drift boat or something and so that allows you to go.
Speaker 2:That allows you to go, like, um, super shallow. And then my buddy has one and we're guiding and he went up this like the one side of the river, and went to the top and started fishing. And then, when he left, I was like, oh, that's a great idea, I'll do that too. I could not in any way shape or form, I was like what the heck? And then, uh, when we went to, or before we went to, alberta for our days of fishing out there, um, I wrote it and I was like, oh, like, this is so easy. Yeah, like, if you can handle the raft, like, you can go super shallow. Um, it's nimble as shit, so you can like maneuver really easily, but then you can also like row up fast currents.
Speaker 1:Ah, because, the hydraulic pushing you up yeah, you're on, you're on the up.
Speaker 2:so, like, as far as for what I do with, uh, trout fishing is I'm doing like I do some technical water not crazy technical, but some pretty technical water and our rivers are always going up and down, so sometimes it's like damn near blown out, but we're still able to fish because there's, you know, good fishing to be had at that time, yep, and then other times it's like, yeah, so it's all over the place, and then it does get pretty shallow during the spring. So a lot of the times I'm, like, you know, scraping bottom or something.
Speaker 2:So that's where my thought is, with that raft specifically, and it comes with cup holders.
Speaker 1:Oh shit, see that's the game changer right there, Dude not having cup holders on the raft is a hard fucking life lesson right there Like spilling so many drinks, oh man, and people mention it next time.
Speaker 2:They're like oh, I noticed, you haven't gotten cup holders yet.
Speaker 1:You're like god damn Dude, and you know how many NRS cup holders I've bought and they just no dude Like. So I cause I'm a space head and I'll leave them in the fucking boat and they and all it is is on that little T little slide clamp thing. So I'll put those on, you know, load my boat up, leave, and then I'll get back to my house and I'll like, yeah, and they're gone.
Speaker 1:And I house and I like, yeah, and they're gone. And I'm like god fucking damn, I just bought those. So now I'm like looking at something that I can like permanently mount to my bars, you know, and you know, my frame, uh, but yeah, not having cup holders is rough it is.
Speaker 2:It is a lot of the uh, we do the girls trip and a few of the ladies. That's like the first thing they say ah, no cup holders, yet Interesting. And I'm like calm down, calm down.
Speaker 1:I just got a new cooler sent to me by Dometic and it has cup holders on the cooler, so there we go. I'll at least have a couple cup holders on there now. Yes, Permanent cup holders. So that's going to be sick. Yeah, that's sweet. Yeah buddy, yeah buddy. Yeah man, your fly looks pretty sick.
Speaker 2:It's something Black and some purple. Black and purple white. Put some more flash on it and some ostrich call it a day. Yes, sir, I got this. I really like when you can see through everything, but then it goes in the water and it becomes this whole thing.
Speaker 1:That's the cool part I like the dark head with all the little translucent in the back. All my flies are basically the same like that. I even got the white and orange one, that one's a little more full. Yeah, man, it's been good times, fucking. It's been good times. It's been good fishing. My daughter's getting more and more curious of fishing oh yeah so she's uh, every time I go steelhead now, she's like dad, can I come? I'm like do you want to go stand out in the rain? She's like no like all right, what no?
Speaker 2:wait, till summertime comes. Summer runs, summer runs.
Speaker 1:Because then when?
Speaker 2:she's into it. You know it's easier if someone's into fishing to hold them out into the worst of weathers.
Speaker 1:Yep. They're not really into it and they're like hey, let's go stand out and make our toes turn purple.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Like well, doesn't sound too fun, and then they look at you like you're crazy and it's like well, it doesn't sound too funny. And then they look at you like you're crazy and it's like I am crazy, but I love it. So here we are, yep.
Speaker 1:Doing the do, doing the do, man, you said she's five.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she's five. Okay, yeah, like six, seven. She'd probably be on the spay, you think.
Speaker 1:I think, oh, yeah, for sure, she sure she's on the spin rod already. Um, she's got a couple coho this year. Hell, yeah, she did. She caught a chum this year. Yes, she did. Yeah, she's, she's on it, but she's gonna. I've, I have fly rods for her, but she's. I just want to throw that little fishy thing. I gotta like these little fish lures that don't have hooks on them.
Speaker 2:So, oh, yeah, yeah yeah, she likes throwing those. Yeah, man, that's where it starts, you know. Just going out having fun day with dad yeah, we do some bar fishing.
Speaker 1:You know, go up and get the plunk and set up, and set up like a glow bug or something like that, and then I'll be doing some swinging while that's out there taking away yeah, yeah how was uh?
Speaker 2:how was her thoughts with uh catching salmon? Oh, dude.
Speaker 1:So I took her, we went bank fishing and just had her like she was in waiters and stuff, and we went walking in and I swung up a chum and then I let her hold the rod and almost pulled her in and she was like yeah, I'm good, dad, I'm good. Yeah, I don't want to catch big, the big ones with the big teeth in them.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she's she's a little scared of them. But no, she's, she's, uh, she likes fish. She, she always wants to touch them when I you know cause we, we bring fish home every once in a while. So when I bring them home, that's cool. It's really cool, yeah, man.
Speaker 2:That's good, and your son is he?
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, he's right there, he's a little copycat of his sister right now. Yeah, I thought so he's just whatever she's doing, he's right there along with her.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's the one thing. I did want to have another kid, but we have two, yeah, and one's not my biological kid, so it was like my son for a portion of his yeah. Anyways, long story short, there was thought of it for that. So they have a bit of an age difference that's greater than two years. Yeah, kind of hard. Yeah, she's 12. He's five. So you know, seven years difference there.
Speaker 1:And it's a weird time frame right there too. You know like 12 there, but and it's a weird time frame right there too, you know like 12 year old.
Speaker 2:She's like do it, she's a little 22 year old right now, or whatever literally yeah, yeah yeah, I hate you there, man her friends mean a lot to her um, and her family definitely comes in second. So yeah, especially a little brother, you know especially a little brother, you know, especially a little brother that just likes to say fart and you know, swing sticks around, basically, yeah, I know, dude, they're.
Speaker 1:So the boys are so much more violent than the girls are. I swear to God, my son's like jumping off like WWE fucking, moves off the couch onto his teddy bears and stuff, like today he flips off of our couch and and like right onto his back and just lays there crying and then gets up and like, does the same thing right away, and then gets up and laughs and I'm like, oh my lord, what am I supposed to do with that? Yeah, what do I do? I help you, do I not help you? As long as you're not bleeding, we're good to go.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah no, they are. Um, they're funny little creatures, those little boys. I, I I did something wrong and I watched lord of the rings with my son and now he's just like a massive lord of the rings nerd. So, oh yeah, we ended up buying swords and we have sword fights like daily now. Like that's almost like your initiation to get into your the house. It's like I've had friends come over to like drop a present off or something like that, and he like instantly grabs both swords and like gives them a sword and they're like what's happening here? I'm like, well, you're about to duel.
Speaker 2:So yeah, you better get ready, you better get ready judging by your stance right now, you don't fight sword, fight enough. I'll tell you that.
Speaker 1:My five-year-old's about to mess you up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and he is now like so it's been like almost a year of sword fighting.
Speaker 1:Not quite alive.
Speaker 2:So I've seen progression of him where, like you know, at first I would just, would just like try to make sure I hit his sword. So he like is happy, yeah, but then it got to the point where it was like actually trying to battle and like someone has to die for this battle to be successful. So like he's like he does, like he does fake out moves now and I'm like I'll go like protect my side or something. And all of a sudden he hits fake out moves now and I'm like like I'll go like protect my side or something. All of a sudden he hits me in the leg and I'm like holy shit, he's actually getting good at this they started using use yeah too bad, it's a useless fucking.
Speaker 1:No, no, I'm we just ordered boxing gloves tonight because I'm going to start teaching my kids how to box. I think Nice.
Speaker 2:That's the next move.
Speaker 1:They are at that age where they're bickering and fighting with each other and stuff. So I'm going to get a little punching bag and I'm just going to teach them how to punch that and when they get mad and stuff, they can go punch the punching bag, Yep. And then it teaches my boy some life skills. Somebody messes with your sister. You know how to punch, yeah that's true.
Speaker 2:And then, well, teach her first, so she becomes good at it, then teach him, and then everyone's, then they can fight, and then you can charge money for no I'm $25 Yay, just a little argument. No, that's good though I like that. I definitely my I have like glasses. I should be wearing glasses right now while I tie, but I haven't had them for a few years because me and my son wrestle a bit and he head-butted me I'll give him it. He, he got me good, so like shout out that kid um yeah, but there goes the pair of glasses now dad can't read.
Speaker 2:Now dad can't read. So, yeah, there's certain books where he brings it to me at night and I'm like no, you know, I, it's like tiny letters, I'm not, I'm not doing that. You go give me that big one with the button.
Speaker 1:Yeah the stuff daddy likes yeah, go get clifford but yeah we're on the same thing we like.
Speaker 2:We do a lot of picture books around here, you feel me, amen, and keep up with my uh, my reading as well, so you know yes, sir I've been improving.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, no, it's been fun. I've been taking my son out fishing as well and just seeing you know the reaction of being on the water and fish caught and the joy grabbing the net trying to land that fish man is super cool I think the cool thing about it like taking your kids I was like I mean, my daughter hasn't gone out since like summertime with me.
Speaker 1:but but when we did go out a couple times in summertime, it was just watching them when they hit the river calm down, because we live a chaotic life. It's a lot of screens and a lot of this and a lot of playing with toys and this. And then watching her just sit in the boat as we're driving, not doing anything, just sitting still and looking at the water. It's like all right, there is something to be out here. There's just sitting still and like looking at the water. It's like all right, there is something to be out here. You know there's something to be said. Being out here Like that cleanses your brain when you hit the water. So yeah, I do that all the time. I'll just sit there and like look at the water, listen to it. While I'm fishing, it happens a lot when you're swinging, you know you're not catching a lot of fish.
Speaker 2:So you got to focus on something at at some point. It is, uh, it is powerful when you you know your kid can sit there for 10 minutes and not say a word. You're just like whoa, this is happening. What is happening? Are you alive? Yeah, you're breathing, you're breathing yeah, yeah, um, that's great, yeah, so that's been cool. I haven't had him swing, but he's got some trout trout now and he talks about fishing a lot, but same thing. I'm like winter steelheading is just not for you know, anyone.
Speaker 1:Well, it's like, yeah, you don't want to make them hate it, right? You don't want to make them not like fishing, so you want to take them out when it's fun and warm outside, and unless they're asking for it, you know. If they're asking to come out there, let them experience it one time so that they know how good it is when it's hot and cold. You know, hot and warm outside.
Speaker 2:That would be the real test to see how well your teaching skills are. Teaching a kid how to spay cast, Just get them on a little switch like a three or four weight.
Speaker 1:Yep, I had this this summer. Summer I had a mom and two sons like a nine and eleven year old, come out okay, cool, taught them how to do a snap t and a double spay and caught some bull trout, so that was pretty cool. Success there, yeah, success, so it was cool I think they're hooked too, because when they're done they're like mom, we got, we got to go to the store and get some of these.
Speaker 2:I was like, sorry, sorry, we had to start that rabbit hole for you, this young yeah, they were supposed to find this out once they moved out, but uh oh, did you lose me there for a sec.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a little technical difficulty for a second.
Speaker 2:I hear you yeah, no, that is a big rabbit hole for parents. I thought about that before I started guiding and I was like how am I going to afford this room? Now that I'm guiding, I'm like, well, at least I can, you know, get guide discounts and such. But yeah, I couldn't imagine like trying to make my mom buy all these feathers and, oh god, dude, being like I wish I could show you yeah or like all these rods, like, yeah, that's like not even you can see some of it.
Speaker 1:I got it's like chaos right now, but yeah, it's like dude, such a rabbit hole, the rod rabbit hole, is bad.
Speaker 2:Yeah I was in competition with one of my good friends for like a good year, where he'd buy something and I'd have to go buy something. And we got vicious to the point where, like, even the guys at the shop were like you guys, okay, Like I'm you guys just got this. Yeah, yeah. Like I'm guarantee you got something that would work for this.
Speaker 2:Like I think you can catch fish with what you got, you know when they know, like what you have already when the shop starts talking to you like that, that's when you need to take it um, take it down a notch.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I'm telling you to stop spending money. Yeah, you go, we gotta talk.
Speaker 2:We gotta talk about something yeah, they're thinking longevity customers, not the short-term massive game you just spent eighty thousand dollars in three months here yeah it's, it's a. It's an easy one though for, like you know, especially steelheading, because a lot of the flies, like I mean, we tie a lot and we lose a lot of gas. Not really, not not a ton, but you're constantly evolving as a tire, so you want more.
Speaker 1:Well, I'll tie one fly and then I'll go fish it, and then I'll be like, oh man, I could do this. What I've noticed too? I was just looking at this fly Because last time I built too big of a dubbing loop and my materials were collapsing behind my dubbing loop. Built too big of a dubbing loop and my materials were collapsing behind my dubbing loop, and so I had to lengthen my materials a little bit when I downsized my dubbing loop a little bit, and so I'm curious to see if that helps. Uh, the materials not from like collapsing behind itself instead of swimming properly.
Speaker 2:I think it will but we'll see. We'll see. Yeah, how often do you tie a fly, put it out there and say nah, or you just don't feel it.
Speaker 1:oh, yeah, dude, I do that all the time. Like I tied up this white and orange one and just the way that the materials are, I I have to put it in the water first to really have a final say on it. But I do it all the time. I'll tie a fly and like, have real strong confidence at night and then I'll put it in the water and it just doesn't do. Or look how I wanted it to look and I'll take it off right away yeah yeah, once in a while there'll be something.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we got the confidence flies. I know like a few patterns that I've used in the past. They're simple enough. I think simplicity is something that I've learned a lot in the last two years of well, I guess three years of guiding is. Yeah, you know, you can tie a really fancy fly. That takes you a while and it's fun, so do it if that's what you want to do. But you can also tie a very simple fly that will be just as effective in the end yeah, dude, like this fly that I tie right now, this like fucking flashy little, it's four materials.
Speaker 1:It takes me like two minutes to tie but I can tie up, like you know, like 400 different little variations of it in like 20 minutes and have a guide box done and they fish really good. So you know, you tie up a thousand of them. A client loses it in a boulder garden. The first cast in the morning time. You don't feel too bad. No, yeah, tie another one on you to keep it pushing.
Speaker 2:I've been doing that a lot with my streamers. Uh, streamers is something that I've been trying to get clients to fish a lot more, because it's just super fun. Yeah, um, and then trout, something I want to bring around and and eventually guide that as well, because I've done it, it's fun. I don't have my own setup, but that's the plan this year and, yeah, just just throwing around flies, you know going out there.
Speaker 1:That's kind of what I do in the summertime. I kind of have like a dry fly and then a swing program, um trout spay program, uh, and yeah it's fucking tight. I like I just like swinging the fly and like I like that tight line grab, so like skating bugs or swinging bugs, same type of grab, you know.
Speaker 1:Um, gotta let it be a little more patient on surface, but yeah uh, yeah, this next summer I'm gonna be real heavy into the trout spay game. Um, I found a new river last summer that I'm probably gonna guide this year. Um, I spent all last summer just kind of prospecting and poking around and fishing it hard, um, and I feel real confident that we could do it out there. So I'm gonna take, take it out there this summer and see what's up and start that trout, that trout spay program. Sorry, no, no worries, but yeah, it'll be tight.
Speaker 1:Trout spay is tight. I think it's a. I think it's really kind of slept. Oh well, I don't know, the last couple of years it's kind of blown up a little bit, but um bit. But, um, I was doing like trout space, basically using like a full space, swinging for trout out here in the winter time for the last like five, six years. Uh, and then, yeah, just recently started using the lighter setups and it's freaking amazing, you know, because, like you guys have brown trout which are like an aggressive fish, we have bull trout out here. So, like, we buy catch bull trout a lot on the seven and eight weights, but if you put those down and you pick up like a four or five or six weight. You freaking get your butt kicked by a, you know, a 17 inch bull trout, compared to like seven or eight weight. So, um, it's, it's freaking fun. It's tight. And then the rainbows too. They're the. Those explosive grabs on a trout spay feel way more intense than if you're using a stouter rod. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:100, yeah, it's crazy, it's like lightning, it's like yeah oh shit, it's definitely that that tightline grab, I think, is becoming so popular just because it's so. You know, a dry fly gets your heart going, but a nothing to something exploding on the end of your rod that gets your heart going in a whole new way, it's just crazy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like it's a whole different ball game in my opinion.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, I've been looking around at the trout spays. I have a few in mind. I couldn't remember them off. I got them tabbed up on my phone, so yeah we'll pull the.
Speaker 2:We'll pull the trigger. Soon. Me and my buddy are going to start going around on our watermasters and hitting it hard. And brown trout are super fun on the swing. I've done it in alberta. I've gone for big browns in alberta, um, and gone a few on the swing and it's super fun. But, like you said, once you get down into the 16 range trout a 7 weight or an 8 weight is just too much, so you step it down and then it feels like a mini steelheader.
Speaker 1:The fight's just fun, it's just a good fight and that's what we're all out for. It doesn't matter about the size of fish, we're all out for the tug. To be honest, the tug is the drug 12-inch trout. If you need to downsize your stuff and get that adrenaline fix, I'm all about it. Baby, sign me up. Hell yeah, man.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm just going to go over a little recap for myself plus, it's starting to get a little late, but so one thing we talked about that I really liked and is just fish the fly. Think about what the fly's doing in the water and that really stands for any aspect of fly fishing. You know your cast, like you said and I tell my clients this too they don't know if it was a good cast. You know the fish have no clue. But if you can make that bug or that fly, whatever you're using actually fish Like, if you can change, get your mindset into that, you see more fish, and I've seen it with streamers. So I'm surprised. I needed to rehear it for a steelhead, but you always got to hear these things. That's why we do this thing.
Speaker 1:Confirmation baby, you got to get confirmation from your peers, get confirmation from the fish you know, just confirmation that you're doing something right. And yeah, I mean fish that fly and fish that fly with confidence. That's the biggest tip.
Speaker 2:That is a good one. I like it. And then go explore more, because you find more. That's what you just said.
Speaker 2:You went and explored more wilderness and you found something you like and you're going to full send it, and that's what this is all about. It's really easy to get into the same motion with the same river, especially for me, because I'm on an island, so I can't just keep driving or whatever, so everything's up island for me. So it really takes. You know, there is some other systems, but they fluctuate so much with the rain that it's very hard to time. Yeah, yeah, gotcha, especially if you're working a job or you got your so fluctuate so much with the rain that it's very hard to time, yeah, especially if you're working a job or you got your family.
Speaker 2:It's not like, okay, perfect, now I'm leaving Peace out.
Speaker 1:I'm out of here, yeah.
Speaker 2:No, I'm the same way.
Speaker 1:We're lucky enough that our system's pretty calm throughout the year. We get our fluctuations, but we're pretty steady out here. Um, but yeah, that'd be a hard one to kind of manage, yeah well, that's a lot of food for thought.
Speaker 2:Jordan, I really do appreciate you coming on and and sharing uh, your updates and all that. I think uh, yes, sir, while you I remember when you first started, because that's when we first started talking. So it's it's cool to keep touch with you and and see where you're going and where you're heading?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think we're. Uh, we're right on par to be guiding about the same amount of time. Right now You're like year three. I think I'm in year three, going into year four. So we're right there, man, just keep on keeping on. Keep on sharing the passion with people and growing and shoot fish is fish is gonna come.
Speaker 2:amen, I love it right on that note, I'll say goodbye and you have yourself a good night, my man have a good one, brother.
Speaker 1:Take it easy, we'll see you next time.