Dead Drifters Society: A fly fishing podcast
Welcome to The Dead Drifters Society podcast, the ultimate destination for fly fishing addicts like us! I'm Andrew Barany, your host from beautiful Vancouver Island, BC, Canada. Join me as we bring together members of the fly fishing community to share stories, tips, tricks, and inspiration both on and off the water. Fly fishing is a lifelong learning experience that both elevates and humbles us. Let's dive into conversations about how this incredible passion has blessed our lives. Tight lines, my friends! Live on and fish on! For more information, email me at deaddrifterssociety@gmail.com
Incredible artwork by Riverwlkr: https://instagram.com/riverwlkr?igshid=MWI4MTIyMDE=
Dead Drifters Society: A fly fishing podcast
Urban Gold: How Ken Myers Turned Trash Fish into Trophy Targets
Ken Myers takes us deep into the often overlooked world of fly fishing for carp, revealing why these powerful freshwater bulldogs deserve far more respect than they typically receive. From the concrete channels of Illinois to the flats of Lake Michigan, Ken details the specialized approaches needed to target these fish across dramatically different environments.
The conversation reveals the surprising complexity of carp behavior, with Ken explaining how these intelligent fish adapt their feeding patterns based on available food sources. He shares the thrill of sight-fishing with his signature "drag and drop" method, describing the precise presentations needed to fool fish that many anglers dismiss as "trash." Ken recounts his most extraordinary carp fishing experience – a rare cicada "double hatch" that transformed normally bottom-feeding carp into surface feeders, allowing him to catch over a hundred on dry flies in just three weeks.
What stands out is Ken's passion for urban fishing environments that most anglers would drive past without a second glance. Through his stories of targeting mirror carp, fantails, and escaped koi among industrial settings, he paints a picture of accessible adventure available to anyone willing to look at these fish with fresh eyes. With practical advice on gear selection, fly patterns, and observation techniques, Ken offers everything listeners need to begin their own carp journey.
Whether you're a dedicated carp enthusiast or a trout purist curious about alternatives, this episode will change how you view these ubiquitous, powerful fish. Follow Ken on Instagram to join his continuing adventures in what he calls "some of the best carp fishing in the country" – hiding in plain sight among the waterways of Chicago and beyond.
The one I'm talking about is probably the closest I've gotten to a full leather. It's the only one I haven't gotten is a full leather cart. It was one side of it was completely no scale and then on the other side it just had like a line of scales, like a lateral line of scales almost, and I was so excited I thought I was like, oh, I finally got my leather and I flipped it over and I was like, oh, damn you know, but still a cool one. Welcome to dead.
Speaker 2:directors, directors welcome back dead drifter. On this episode we sit down with ken myers. He's out of illinois and he's targeting carp on the regular, so that was something that was asked to be heard on the Instagram and here we go, so I hope you enjoy. Good man, just welcome to the podcast and glad to have you. Where are you located? I know you're central.
Speaker 1:Out south of Chicago In Illinois. Yeah, okay, cool. Unfortunately, not really much trout fishing out by me. You know you're in Vancouver Island, is that? Yeah, that's man, I've never been out that way but you know, one day I'd like to make. Yeah, have you been to Vancouver Island before? I know, like some fishing stuff out there, a couple guys that fish out there that I follow on Facebook and Instagram. I watched that show alone. You ever see that? I don't know. Oh, yeah, it's on the island. Yeah, yeah, it'd be cool to get out there sometime. It's sweat and cornfields out there Pretty much.
Speaker 2:We definitely live in two different worlds. You're flat cornfield fields and no trout around, really, and then you know we wanted to talk about carp. So carp fishing on the island is a weird one. It's definitely possible, the lake that we have. I know of one lake not that there isn't more lakes with carp, but they are a fun fish to catch. They're just interesting though when it comes to feeding and like how to actually stalk them and catch them yeah, so, uh, up by me, it's like the name of the game is carp fishing.
Speaker 1:It's, I think, the best fishing we have. You know like the most opportunities to go chase them. They're, they're in every everything. You know common carp not, not the asian carp that you see like that go airborne. You know like those are, those are bad.
Speaker 1:Uh, the commons out here, you, you know like they get a bad rep. A lot of guys. You know they like to shoot them with bows and you know all that and you know to each their own. You know I'm not going to knock anybody on anything, but I just kind of take advantage of it, man, and chase them with a fly rod. I just kind of take advantage of it, man, and chase them with a fly rod and I'll chase them in the pond, creeks, rivers, lake Michigan. You know those are and they're all kind of different. You know, like you said, they're all they're feeding habits. You know so, like the Great Lakes cart, you know you're fishing, you know three-inch, four-inch streamers, you know crayfish and small bait fish and they'll chase them down. You know the pond carp, you're throwing like little nymphs. You know kind of, and they're kind of rooting around in the mud and just eating like aquatic insects and you know so not sure what they feed on out by you.
Speaker 2:You know if that's what they're doing, are they stalking around in the mud and um, you know the I haven't put in enough time, so maybe there's someone that has more information than I. They, it's a big lake and they seem to like to be deep, like when I used to fish them. Uh, prior to fly fishing. It would be like, um, you know bread balls or, uh, oatmeal balls with corn. Cast that out. You know pretty much as far as you could launch it unless you, like, really were sure that they were coming closer. There was a few times on a boat where they were you know, I'm in 20 feet of water, 25 feet of water, and they were all at the surface. It was like super foggy out and they were all at the surface surface. It was like super foggy out and they were all at the surface and I casted so many times with like a little leech. Nothing came to it. So maybe they're just like.
Speaker 2:I think they would be probably eating a lot of chronomids. That would be my big guess. Our lakes on the island aren't in. I don't, yeah, like I don't think I've ever pumped a leech out of this. You know a sample of a trout I, some of them might have crayfish and some of them, um, you know, but no backs or back swimmers or water boatmen. You know, I've seen uh damsels and lots of chronomids. So yeah, I'm not sure exactly what they're feeding on, but I would I would assume that it's a lot more.
Speaker 1:Yeah they're pretty opportunistic, you know, and they key in on pretty whatever's around and abundant. So we had, like the double cicada. Do you guys get cicadas out up there? So are you familiar with cicadas, like the bug, you know so how they hatch every 13 years and 17 years there's a big emergence. So this past fall we had the double hatch out by me. So it was like, you know, just out of nowhere, tons and tons of these bugs out, you know, and I would say, within a week, carp really uh, keyed in on them. So normally we're catching carp, you know their tail, tails are up, face down, they're kind of feeding off the bottom or whatever. And uh, it changed from that to dry fly fishing for cart and it was, it was a blast. I mean like three weeks, probably over a hundred, a hundred fish, you know, all on dry flies. Uh, had a few buddies from Wisconsin come down and check it out.
Speaker 1:You know I'm fishing like uh, a lot of a lot of canals, like like drain, industrial drainage, can I held? You know, I don't, I don't get in the water, you know, but I'm, I'm stalking them on the banks. So, uh, when I started fly-fishing, my second fish I thought was a car and like for like three years. After that three, four years, I strictly carp fish pretty much and uh, so I I learned a lot. You know there's, there's like the uh, there's a certain fish that you want to target.
Speaker 1:You know, when you're out there, so like you see fish that are kind of know when you're out there, so like you see fish that are kind of cruising fast, you know, like shallow, I'm always fishing them from I don't know. Sometimes their backs are sticking out of the water to you know three feet. That's kind of the the sweet spot, you know. Or, or if they're up in there, they're, they're looking for something to eat.
Speaker 1:You know, for the most part, so ones that are kind of cruising fast, those are not really like worth an effort. You know, like you could maybe put a cast on them and one might turn and go at it, but for the most part they're just kind of keep, keep going. Uh, the ones that are suspended up kind of right under the surface, but they're not really doing anything, they're just hanging out. You know they're just what we call those sunbathers. You know they're just hanging out getting warm. You know they're not eating, not really worth casting at the ones that are face down and tail up. Those are the ones that will eat a fly like a well-presented fly. So what I like to do is have you ever heard of the drag and drop method?
Speaker 2:Yes, but re-.
Speaker 1:Here I'll show you this fly. So if you can see this little like the, you know the john montana's hybrid carp fly. Have you heard of that?
Speaker 2:okay, it's like a larva it's like another.
Speaker 1:It's nasty, so yeah it just like falls pretty slow through the water column. Uh, the trick is you gotta be stealthy, so like big dumbbell lead eyes they'll spook out. You know, like you gotta kinda kinda get it to them silently, but you also need it to stink, you know. But uh, they cast like I don't know five, six feet past the fish, strip the fly and like I almost just like lift my rod. You know, get that fly like right underneath the surface of the water, bring it into like uh, six, seven inches on either side of the fish and just let that thing fall and then they'll just turn and suck it off the bottom. You know, 90 of the time it's all, it's all a sight thing. There's no feel. So there's no like, there's no feel. You know, it's just, it's all kind of like.
Speaker 1:Uh, like you learn as you do it more, you know there's like signs of like, oh, that fish just like turned a certain way, like I know it just ate my fly. It's pretty, it's pretty cool. You know, it's definitely um tricky, you know I, I mean, but I've done it for so long now that I could. I can catch them in pretty stained up water. You know, I can be like a tail pick and I'm like, oh, that fish just ate. Boom set, you know, and on, and then they start just screaming, you know, into your backing, your backing. It's a pretty fun thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so instead of like feeling the grab, you see some kind of body language of the fish that it turned, and that's pretty much all you need to know, assuming you, place the fly, sometimes their gills will flare open and that'll kind of be like a sign that the fish just ate your fly, but they'll spit it out real fast.
Speaker 1:They're very, very finicky. Yeah, they're very finicky. You know, like some days they're just on and then you know you'll go out and catch. Well out by me, you know, go like out and get like 20 fish. You know in a day you go back and a few days later and they're just totally shut off or just gone. Excuse me, um, they also, uh, they're, they're smart like for a trash fish.
Speaker 1:You know, for everyone said trash fish and whatever you know they're. They're smart, like there's been places where I have, uh, like I found wet and I just crushed them. You know, for like two seasons it was, I'd go there and catch 12 fish out of each pool, you know, and it was like this is no problem. Now I go there and I put one of these hybrids down, they bolt. You know like they're like this guy's back. You know he's back for the spring, he's coming for us, and now it's like a whole different ball game out there.
Speaker 1:I gotta, I gotta change my tactics a little bit. It's all a fish with. You know, like an 8 weight is a good one to start with. You know, 9 foot 8 weight, nothing fancy, just something that's got a little backbone to it, I guess. Over the years, though, I've kind of like I went down to a 4 weight. People think I'm insane, but you know it's fun. I fish with, uh, you know, 15 pound maxima, you know. So I just I give them no respect. I just I whoop them now, but in the in the beginning, yeah, like even though, yeah, man, you're still gonna try to fish like you.
Speaker 1:Just yeah, especially if you're fishing like that, you could tow a tundra with a freaking 15 pound maxima. But yeah, so you know, I fish all over. You know Chicago land for them. I started trying to do a little bit of a like part stay kind of thing, which is kind of fun. That's awesome. A couple years back it was like two years ago or so I just had like a five-weight rod and I just did like the old Edward style I chopped the handle off of a spin rod and shoved it up the bottom of the five weight and epoxy the handle and I'm like, all right, I'm gonna go check this out. I had one of those opst commando smooths. So I went to my little creek spot. Man, I was just doing like little snap tees and swinging one of these little hybrids out in front of a pool and one of them would come out and just grab it and I was. I was all right, I'm onto something here, you know. So I've been trying to dial that in Last year we had a pretty big summer drought, you know.
Speaker 1:So it was like I fished one spot. I don't know. Are you familiar with Joliet Illinois? Have you ever heard of Joliet Illinois. Have you seen the movie the Blues Brothers?
Speaker 1:Okay, so Probably a while People hear Joliet, they're like, oh, that's where the Blues Brothers is filmed, you know. So I fish out there and in the springtime it's like almost like they're like spring run art. So they'll run up the tribs, you know the smaller creeks, you know off the larger rivers, spawn and then they'll go back. But I mean they just they flood these small creeks and there's just hundreds of of fish and they're all willing to eat flies. So it's a really, it's a really fun time. That's where you go do the. That's why I was doing my my carp day thing. So this year we'll see how it, how it goes, you know that's.
Speaker 2:That's a good uh species to have. On the spay, though. I mean, they, they fight hard. I never caught anything massive on a fly rod, but I caught a couple of like 15, 20 pound on spin gear and you know I was way back then. So whatever size they were, they were larger than the ones we were catching. That's what you need to know. And they, they and they fight hard. They're a fun one. So on a spay rod like a five-weight there, yeah.
Speaker 1:That's what it's about. Nine-foot-nine OPSP three-weight weight this year it's like a little two-handed three weight. I think it's gonna be a blast out there. I'm gonna see how it goes, you know, but it should be cool. Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. I got some. Yeah, trying to dial in the gar program. We got the big gar down here. It's a massive 50-inch long-nose gar. I've seen Our spots are a little different. I fish in a lot of rougher urban areas. I always say the good part of fishing is you see graffiti and all that stuff. You know like you're, you're in a good part spot. You know we find every once in a while you'll find a fresh gun. Someone's through in the creek right there, you know, and you won't. I don't take them home, I just look at him like oh yeah, you just know it's there.
Speaker 2:It's like a gun.
Speaker 1:That's a carp yeah, so you know it's different you know it's different than the.
Speaker 1:I do trout fish, so I'll go to wisconsin. You know, this time of the year I go up to wisconsin and swing flies for our. You know, whatever you want to call them steelhead lake run rainbow. You know, I know the whole, the whole thing. I whatever, I just take what I can get. You know, but we do get some big, some big fish, so it's it's all good. You know, yeah, they eat a swung fly, so I'll appreciate it yeah, it's.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we'll leave that alone. Yeah, there are other people to discuss. We just, like you said, we want to go get that tug. We're out there.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, man, carp fishing has always been that. Like you know, I see it especially as a, as a guide. Some people are like I caught another rainbow trout. It's like man, pound for pound, though a rainbow trout fights way harder than a brown trout, not every time, but the brown trout's just, you know, picture perfect. So then we look at a carp and it's like most people would be like, oh, I don't, but carp are actually kind of beautiful and they're well, they are beautiful in their own way.
Speaker 2:Um, I thought so like I never, I never really killed them like a lot of, not a lot, but some of the guys would like kill them and throw them in the bush for the animals and stuff, and it's like we're never going to get that lake under control of cart. It's past that point. They've been in there for so long. Um, so, yeah, killing them wasn't really something I did, but I thought they were pretty nice and the fact that they could like breathe air and they were super cool. And then, add on top of that, they fight like a freight train. You know, you hook them and instantly they're just running. Nothing, nothing. What's wrong with that? Nothing. That's all good stuff.
Speaker 1:They're pretty much indestructible.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean for people that want to, you know, are worried about fish and whatnot yeah, they're indestructible. That's the answer.
Speaker 1:That's the answer. Yeah, I don't think I've ever killed a carp, you know, by overplaying it or you know, out of the water too long, you know, sometimes, like where we fish around, like a four-foot concrete walk ledge. You know you got to do like airborne, like airborne release, you know let them go after a fight and like they just flip them off. I go back and see them a couple days later. You know the, the same fish. It's kind of cool actually. They're freaking indestructible and, yes, they are beautiful. The big, golden, golden scales, orange tail. You know I like that. You know that orange kind of outline on their tail looks real nice in the sun and we get all sorts of uh, you know, south by you. Is it just common carp?
Speaker 2:it's common, yeah, just common, carp. There was an old kind of folklore tale that I heard about, like um, because they weren't in the lake at one point, obviously planted. And then, um, there was a dump that had a pond and they wanted to put carp in there to be like, hey look, we can have fish stay alive at our dump we're pretty clean, you know. But it's like you're picking the most undistructable fish. And the city basically was like, no, but they had already purchased the carp. Now this, like I said, is whether it's true or not. And so they just went off to a lake and dumped them.
Speaker 2:If the city told me, though, not to put them in my pond because like they could spread to other areas, I wouldn't go dump them in the lake. So I don't know how true that is, uh, but the location of the lake, and you know, yeah, so who knows? But yeah, they, uh, I used to get them. There was this one guy that would always fish them and he would fish like basically a sinking, a full sinking line, right down to the bottom, and he would troll like blood leech, this, like super small micro blood leech, and he would get them consistently. So I know that there's uh, I know a couple of people that have fished them from the bank and seen them tailing, so I know it's possible. But I guess food source is what you really got to look at like. What is the heaviest source in that lake? If it's not leeches, then it must be They'll eat cotton seed.
Speaker 1:I don't know if you guys have cotton seed trees out by you like we do out here. You'll see them coming up and you'll see their mouths. There'll be a lot of 30 fish on a big ball and they'll just be like sipping cotton seed off the surface. You know they're called bloopers, they're clooping out there, that's what we say. So you can throw like little, just white luck flies out there too. I mean, if that's what's on the mulberries, mulberries dropping from the bushes. You know those fish are like, uh, a hot fish. I always say the berry eater fish. I don't know what it is.
Speaker 1:I think any carp that's eating off the top I've normally found out to be like very like fights a lot harder, like the cicada fish, and they were so fat, packed with cicadas and like, uh, it was crazy, man, like you would walk up to the water with a handful of these bugs and just like, throw them in there and they would be gone within 10 seconds. You know fish were just coming up slurping them off. It was, it was something else. So we have, like you know, the common carp, uh, the grass carp, which are like the grass carp. They're big, you know, they're really big but like they they fight weird. Like they hate nets. So like the fight doesn't start until you, like you try to put them in the net and then they take off and then you just kind of fight it back in like like a dying king salmon, almost it's just kind of like a log, you know, and then go to put the net out and then they take off and you get them in the net and then they just wreck themselves. They just freaking hate it. So those fish are kind of. You know I don't target the grass carp as much.
Speaker 1:We get a koi. You know we have a lot of koi in some of the ponds. You know people just screw their pet. I mean a koi's always just domesticated carp. You know it's. I've seen them in the in the river. You know, with just like a group of commons, you know like it just kind of went back to its natural instincts.
Speaker 1:You know like so and now we get a cool like common carp toy mix. You saw that picture I sent you, that common that had the real long fins and stuff. Those are pretty cool. We call those a fantail Fantail mermaid. I like to call them. There's only a select couple ponds in my area that have them. I haven't seen them anywhere else.
Speaker 1:It's kind of a a special one. You know, I try to keep that one on the down low as much as I can, uh. And then we get mirror cart. You know the mirror carp are really cool if you've ever seen one of those. Yeah, yeah, they have like a mutation or something like that I've heard. And then it's kind of cool if you think about like they're all kind of unique, like not, you know, they each have their own scale pattern. You know, like those mirrors like none of them are like really exactly the same kind of fish, which I I think is which is pretty cool about it. It's always like a bonus. I get maybe one or two mirrors a season, and so it's kind of always like a treat when you hook into one of them.
Speaker 2:It's very funny.
Speaker 1:Not any different than a common. Different than a common. You know, the uh, the poi. For some reason they they fight harder and they're like a lot harder to catch. I think it's because, like they're so colored, you know that they kind of have been living their whole life like either big orange fish, you know, in the middle of a pond like raccoon.
Speaker 2:It's the pretty boy. It's the pretty rich boy. It's like when a rich boy you know filthy rich boy that's done nothing for himself all his life, been hand-fed, and then all of a sudden the police are trying to arrest him and he freaks out and spazzes and goes crazy and it's like he's never experienced that.
Speaker 1:So this cart's like sitting there, like get fed soon and then, like they all know that for some reason people think you go catch like this big boy and like go sell it to a pet shop, right, like people are like, oh, it's worth, worth money. I don't like, I'm not really like once you're at a certain time like. I've looked into it. Once you're at a certain size, they're not worth nothing. You know like nobody has a swimming pool for an aquarium for their koi fish. You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 1:so like they, uh, yeah yeah, you know people don't really get it, but yeah, they're, they're cool, man, I've got a. I've got a few big orange, big orange koi under my belt, you know like big one. Yeah, like, uh, I went, I hunted that fish for like a week. It's like a hunt, almost man.
Speaker 1:So you know, I went through this pond I see this big orange fish and, like you know, denied my fly for like five days straight. You know I go after work, you know, every day for like a week, you know, trying to feed this fish a fly, and then, like I don't know, you're just like you don't pass to anything else, you just like you walk around until you see a fish, right. So you're like ninja kind of walking, like trying not to step on sticks and twigs and you know make any sort of any sort of noise and then like yeah, I finally finally hooked it and and then I never got it again. Every time after that fish never wanted nothing to do with me after that. So it's like a one and done kind of thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man, it's it's fun and the great lakes thing is.
Speaker 1:So we fished the. Um, there's a, there's a refinery that uh, pumps it's like a hot water discharge. It pumps right into lake michigan. Um, it's a, it's an interesting spot. It's kind of it's kind of like around gary indiana, you know. It's uh, it's a health gate. There's like piles of rebar in the water, like big eye beams you gotta walk across.
Speaker 1:But man, these tarp in there they're like I mean my biggest is 40 inches. I mean, pound wise, like I don't know this thing was, I would say in between 30 and 40 pounds, like maybe hugging the closer to 40. I mean I had to put my ass into that thing to lift that fish out of the water, you know, but the fight, like you'd think it would like fight really really, really hard, but like it just kind of bulldogged, you know, like it like jumped out of the water like moby dick, you know, did like a boom, like a whale kind of thing, and then it just like wanted to go down to the bottom and not move, you know. So that's my biggest, my biggest fish. Uh, that was on an eight weight. I don't, I don't four weight carp.
Speaker 1:When I'm out on the great lakes, just you gotta cast far, you know, and the spot where you're not really in the water, you know where you go. It's kind of more like jumping from these big concrete blocks, you know. You kind of jump down the beach and those carp will like swim up to rocks and flip them over, so they'll like flip them with their heads and eat the crayfish that come clean out. Yeah, and I've heard stories where this one guy fish with. He told me that he was watching like a group of carp like corral, a bunch of crayfish against like a concrete wall and they were just like cruising in and just picking off these crayfish, one at a time. He said it was insane, like, uh, you know like they planned it out. You know like that's how smart exactly, you know that's how organized they are yeah, jesus, we gotta watch out man.
Speaker 2:That's what I'm saying. We need carp insurance. That's when it's the rise of the carp they're organized.
Speaker 1:That's crazy, eh and uh you know I chased them on a paddleboard. I picked up a paddleboard this past summer so I could get into some like kind of more like swampy areas, you know, and fish for them, and that's a lot of fun, you know. So I'll just kind of hole around on these mud flats on my paddle board and just pick them off, man, and like those ones are like so like pond fish out by me, you know, you get people like feeding them bread and whatever. Like those fish are like like pets almost, you know, like they know what's like they'll eat bread flies, so like they're not really big on the bugs because like they just like keep it and they don't really fight that good, you know. But the ones that are like out in the, you know, away from people, you know probably never seen a fly before, those are the fun ones to go after. They'll charge and fly 10 feet and just go Fly line burns, yeah, so you need the gluten-free cart.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, I haven't. That's pretty funny. Yeah, you need the gluten-free cart.
Speaker 2:You need that bike. Yeah, dude, that's cool though. So, like when you're tying flies, how many like fly patterns do you really tie Are?
Speaker 1:you just to set on a handful.
Speaker 2:I know you said different areas, some could be on crayfish, some could be on this and that, but in your arsenal, when you go to a specific place let's say it's bugs do you have like 20 different bugs?
Speaker 1:Pretty much like softfish, like that hybrid. You know that thing?
Speaker 2:yeah, that's like my that's like my bread and butter.
Speaker 1:That's what I that's my go-to, you know like catches, everything. Uh, then, like my great lakes flies, like I'll fish, like goby patterns. Um, are you familiar with, uh, the swing craw, dave pinchowski's swing craw? So it's like this little crafter crayfish I don't really have one behind me, I don't think. Uh, it's like a little crafter kind of crayfish fly. Those do real well wherever there's any crayfish around. You know those are. Those are fun because you'll pick up a lot of smallmouth bass with them too. I'll swing those a lot just because I'll pick up, you know, cart drum. Uh, buffalo you familiar with? Like the smallmouth buffalo, no, you're no Drum.
Speaker 2:I think I know what that is.
Speaker 1:I've heard it's like a cousin almost to the redfish and black drum, but the freshwater version. They're fun, they pull hard. Definitely Buffalo are cool. They're fun, they pull hard. Definitely Buffalo are cool. They look like carp, they get mistaken as carp and people shoot them a lot, but they're actually native to my area at least, and they fight really hard and they're really tough to catch. I mean you get like 100 shots a day because there's so many of them, but maybe one will eat. So it's tough.
Speaker 1:I've picked a couple up on my OPSP 8-weight. I got an 11-foot 6 8-weight biome and it's really fun to swing flies with. So that's what I use. I do have a full-sized bay rod but I don't use it for, like my uh, warm water kind of kind of stuff. You know smallmouth bass, carp and you know drum buffalo. That's what I like to swing them for out here.
Speaker 1:Uh, yeah, man, like the carp thing is, you know, wise, wise, yeah, like those hybrids swing craw and then just like tiny, like you know. You know the span one worm. You heard of the span one worm that that's a good one for them. I don't, yeah, I don't really fish much, but I know guys that have a whole box of fan lines that's sort of their go to and then like, yeah, mulberries, man, like they freaking love mulberries, they'll post under the bushes, and when the wind comes in and knocks a couple off, they like come up fighting for them. It's really cool actually. So I'll tie like little like right here like this little. It's really cool actually. So I'll tie like little like right here like this little kind of foam looking kind of mulberry thing geez, yeah, that's a smorgasbord of foam and yeah man and it's like it's got blood wraps on this hook shank.
Speaker 1:So like just kind of sits down with that hook. So when they come up and eat it, they gotta. It's weird, like when they eat on top. It's like a weird timing thing.
Speaker 1:You really gotta miss a few fish to kind of kind of figure it out like do you need because, like with trout, you want them to like yeah, come up and like sometimes they won't even like really stuck it down, like at first, like it'll take them a little bit, like they'll like bump it with their, with their snout a bunch of times and then maybe they'll, they'll finally get it. And then, like you got to kind of wait like a half second and then set because, like I just think it's the way their mouth is like, if they got to like almost put their head down, because if their head is still up you just pull it right out of their mouth. You know it's almost like they got to like kind of set their head face back down a little bit and then when you set it it's just kind of go straight up and they got like real rubbery. You know rubbery miles, setting the hook kind of carps. You know pretty, pretty easy. You know you don't have to do no strip set or nothing, it's just real.
Speaker 1:I fish a lot of barbless, carp flies. It's just easier to get out. A lot of times you'll be still fixated on one fish casting. You'll get a nice smallmouth bass that'll just come out of nowhere and just swallow that whole fly down. So it's nice to have them barbless, just pop them out, you know so yeah, man, Interesting.
Speaker 2:So you're really getting to hit them in ponds, lakes, creeks and yeah yeah.
Speaker 1:From my understanding is in the 1800s they like stocked them out in america for, you know, people to eat and uh. And then I heard that, you know, like, as time went on and you know, stuff started getting more populated and a little more fished and some species started dwindling off but, like the carp are so hardy they just kind of kept going. You know, like, and so they're just, they're freaking everywhere. You know they're like Just every, every piece of water out by me has them, but you know, like they're not the great the, the, uh, asian cart. You know the asian carp are the ones that are a big issue, you know.
Speaker 1:So the illinois river out by me, you know if you ever seen a video like on whatever, like instagram or something, the guys are on like a wakeboard and they're, they're freaking going down the river and there's fish jumping and they're like cutting them in half with swords, right, have you seen those videos at all? So like, yeah, man, those things are a serious issue. I've never seen them in any of the spots that. I like the fish, like I'm happy about that, those fish I would throw on the bank or whatever. You know, if I caught one of those just because they're I don't know. They're still, I feel like not, they haven't taken over everything yet. They might as well try to stop it. You know like the comments are here to stay, so you know there's nothing you're really going to be able to do about it.
Speaker 2:Yeah. What do the Asian carps do differently? Is it just that they jump out and try to smack you in the face?
Speaker 1:No, I think they spawn, they reproduce a lot. It's real fast. They're filter feeders, I believe. So you know they're just kind of like. You know it just kind of works down the chain right. I'm not a biologist or anything, you know, I just what I hear. I know they're bad, but I believe that the biggest issue is like the whole like for at least like the tourist aspect, you know is like jumping out and you know knocking people out when they're driving their boat or whatever you know like.
Speaker 2:That's a hazard, though. I mean, it's like let's get big. Like little little, uh little timmy trying to enjoy a day on the lake with his dad, and next, you know, yeah yeah, those, yeah, those aren't one fish, you know like the grass carp.
Speaker 1:So the grass carp out by me are like planted in, like golf course ponds, you know, to prevent algae growth, and you'll catch them on like, uh, marabou, just like olive marabou, kind of flies, you know, like it just looks like some moss or whatever. When, uh, when the landscaping crews come and like mow, that's the time to go fish for them, because they'll be eating like grass clippings and stuff off the surface. So those fish are like planted in these ponds but they're sterile so they can't, they can't reproduce, but they get freaking massive, like 50 inch, you know, and those things I mean. You get them in your arms and they start freaking out, like you know, they smack you in the face. I'd imagine it hurt pretty bad. So, like dude yeah, they're huge man and they're weird. They're like, you know, like trout. When you pull them out of the water they're kind of like sometimes, like when you're like whatever taking them out, or they're like croak a little bit. I have a little like noise that they make.
Speaker 1:Yeah the weirdest croaking noise when you, when you're taking them out and unhooking them or whatever, like it's like loud, it's weird, but it's yeah, I've heard that with almond carp.
Speaker 2:I've seen like I've caught some and then heard like an interesting kind of yeah, oh, it's like a ribbit, you know they're fun man, yeah, it's, uh, it's definitely something different.
Speaker 1:You know a lot of guys I mean it's been a thing for a while now like people carp fishing but like not, you know, there's not a whole lot of us that like, uh, really like to do it. You know like there'll be guys that like, oh, like they'll go bass fishing and they'll see one, they'll throw a woolly bugger right and like everything eats a woolly bugger, right, everything eats a woolly bugger. But guys are like I'll go strictly out carp fishing, just walking. I mean, I'm known to do 12 miles a day just walking, walking banks of canals and whatever, looking for fish. Most of the time it's a good, successful day, which is always nice, you know it's.
Speaker 1:It's a good way to, um, kind of like learn how to fight big fish also, which I I feel like you know, like, yeah, you know when, when you know it's, you pay for a guided trip or something, or you know you're going somewhere, destination and you know like it would suck if all you were used to catching was these like small fish, and then you hook into a trophy and you have no clue what to do. You know. So, like art fishing is, it's a great way to learn how to fight big fish. You have no clue what to do. You know.
Speaker 2:So, like art, fishing is it's a great way to learn how to fight big fish. Yeah, no, that's. I can contest that. The uh. I definitely get people on the raft and you know they've. They're used to catching a certain fish and then they catch, you know, larger fish. And all the training there was never training. So I was like shocked, like yeah, I do a lot tight.
Speaker 2:Keep the time. You, a full-time guy. Um, yeah, working on it. This is the first year, um, that I'm full-time guiding, so that is amazing. And uh, yeah, across bc there's uh, I do stuff on the island and then I go to the kootenays, which is uh, basically all dry fly fishing. I could say all dry fly fishing. There is random days where you know they just don't want it whatever it is, and then we'll throw nymphs down for them. So, yeah, that's super fun.
Speaker 2:Um, but, yeah, working on filling up the the months and then the months that I'm not super busy, like this month, I'm not super busy. I'm guiding tomorrow but I won't be uh, doing a ton in. Uh, january and February start back up in March. April, may, june is quiet. I do sea run, cutthroat fishing with my buddy before I head out to uh the Kootenays for the summer and after September I go to, I dip into Alberta for a little bit, do a bit of fishing there on my own and then make it back out.
Speaker 2:So I'm I'm trying to make a nice routine, you know, for the next foreseeable future. And I'm getting trained on one more river. I'm getting trained on one more river, the, the Columbia River. For some, I guess now they're just rainbows, but they were landlocked steelhead. Basically they got dammed in. Someone built a dam down in the US and that was the end of them going back out. So they're big and fun, but, yeah, a lot, a lot of trout fishing, a lot of swinging flies, a lot of streamer fishing and then dry flies and euro nymphing a little bit, not too much.
Speaker 1:Not too much, I mean I did it in like colorado when I went um, but like, yeah, you know, like like by me, like I said, I started out with no trout water, so like it's always been streamers and top water like poppers. And you know, I'll do my trout fishing when I go to the Driftless Wisconsin area. It's cool out there, little Spring Creek Tim was talking about it when, uh, you had him on, so I'll go out there. That's where I get my my fill of trout, you know. And then the lake michigan tribs for the lake run browns you know there's a lot of a lot of lake run browns where I could go and fish.
Speaker 1:Um, yeah, you know I've been wanting to get a on a spay co for carp fishing. You know I've been talking with tim trying to trying to get something for this three-way. You know I want to hear that thing singing a nice tune this this spring. So I'll start catching them. You know, next month I kind of like, depending on if it, like last winter, was a pretty warm winter for us. I mean, I had pictures and like it was like one day in february I was in a t-shirt, tart fishing. You know I was like this isn't right, you know, but I'll take it, I guess. Uh, so yeah, I'll start stocking, like this place I go fish.
Speaker 1:I feel like it's like probably like people's like bathtub water and stuff drains into it, so like it probably is warm. You know it warms up a little faster. Those fish kind of start kicking off kind of quick. You can tell they're cold. So they fight. You know, like the cold part it fights kind of like a wet stock but a hot one man, yeah, they'll put fly line burns in your fingers and stuff. It's pretty cool, you know, I'll go home, like you know, bleeding a little bit every once in a while from a long day of carp fishing.
Speaker 1:Like in the places, carp fishing, like, uh, in the places you go, man, like you know, like it's like some funny stories you can get, like, uh, I was fishing, uh, a tournament. There's a my local fly shop. You say I have this tournament called the golden bone, you know, art tournament. And uh, there's a rule. It was no one of the rules, no, chumming.
Speaker 1:So me and my buddy, my partner, we go to our spot and we're fishing and like I'm running underneath this like kind of like little waterfall and I look and I see it as like a pancake just floating down the creek. Man, gonna see it as like a pancake just floating down the creek. Man, like someone, just like, like someone just like, yeah, yeah, man, legitimate pancake. And it's like chris beat it up their their window into the water, right, and it's sitting there and I'm like, oh man, like is this considered chumming, you know, or what? And you know you don't see that. Like you're not going to find that on a trout stream, like people chucking pancakes in the water, right, it was funny to see.
Speaker 2:Like you know, like just like the most random stuff, like the most random stuff like uh you know, broken down cars and uh, water heaters and uh, so you could open up a fly shop, one place I fished.
Speaker 1:It used to be you'd have it, yeah, probably issues but, uh, for what you're doing, we have the strip club. That's the, that's because it's right by the, the strip club that, uh, it's called the cellar and um, it's like, uh, bring your own beer. Strip club with, like you know, like I've never been in there, um, but I've heard, you know, I've heard stories. So it closed down and my younger brother's, like you should turn it into a fly shop and guide out the back of it.
Speaker 1:I was like, yeah, do I keep it the same man yeah yeah, and everything in there, uh, that we spotted yeah yeah, the stripper poles just make it a rack.
Speaker 2:So it's like round, yeah, man, that's, that's pretty cool, though that's. Uh, I like the um, you know, because I'm so used to where I fish, so that to me like is intriguing, like it would be cool to be in like an urban setting or, like you know, I'm so used to like, let's say, pristine rivers, to be in like a sewage outflow or something and be fishing for carp. It's like uniquely cool to that area and fishing you, you know, you know, yeah, like a body that you know you got a gun anyways.
Speaker 1:You found a gun. I never found one. It was on the 4th of July last year. I was floating around on my paddleboard and in this spot is like the very the lowest end of one of the creeks I fish and it dumps right into the top. There's a big dam there, so they open the dam up multiple times a day, let more water through and this creek will like backflow like three or four times a day but fluctuate like three or four feet. You know it's crazy. And uh, I was paddle boarding and then I'd be like it looked like a head, all right, like floating. I was on the phone with my dad. I was like I gotta call you back real quick, but I paddled over to it. I'm like, damn it, it's the day I finally found a body at this place, you know, and it was a deer. It was a deer fucking floating down the creek. Man it was. Yeah, you know, one day it'll probably happen.
Speaker 1:I mean, you know, I've had one time a guy like I just got done fishing and I was walking to my car and I'm still in the water and this guy just like drives his truck right into the water and I don't know what he was. He was like probably on like crack or something. But he was like telling me like yeah, I drive my truck in this place all the time. And, man, he was an interesting guy. I talked to everybody. He was like sweating, you know. I was like, oh yeah, this guy's a character. I was like, oh man, you're good, I'm done. Anyways, like go have fun, I'm testing this shit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I do this all the time. Come down to the creek, drive in, wait a bit, drive back out.
Speaker 1:Yeah it's cool, you know it's the urban stuff, like where I go do my field head fishing, it's, it's pretty urban also, you know, up in wisconsin, so you know you get the sirens all day and all that. So when I go somewhere that's pristine, you know, I definitely. Uh, it's like flip, you know for me and you like to me.
Speaker 2:I'm like, oh, it's something I never get to do, right, and then if you like if, if, if you were like okay, andrew, cast upstream next to the fire hydrant and across from the dead deer down by the you know boot, I'd be like, yes, sir. Like it's so exciting for me this is like you ever been out this way? Oh, it's no no, no, not, uh, definitely not for fishing.
Speaker 1:Um, yeah, I have not much of a destination, but but it's like, uh, the cart thing is, you know, like I, I have a buddy that lives in, uh, detroit. You know, I'm sure you've heard of Detroit, michigan, right. So he uh, yeah, he moved here from Detroit, worked, uh, worked downtown for like a few years and then, uh, he, the guy, the carp whiz man like he, that's all the guy fishes for, he loves carp, uh, so he, uh, like COVID happened, you know, and he ended up, he ended up moving back to Detroit and he comes out every year just to carp fish. You know like he comes out for a weekend or two a year, you know, just to carp fish. Tagaland area, I'd say, like from downtown to about where I'm located about an hour south, is like some of the best part fishing you'll probably find in the country, you know. I mean, it's like there's just so many different types of it. You know like, yeah, you can go to like Lake Michigan flats and, like you know, go out on the flats all the time and you know, do that for a week. But, like you know where I live, like I could go do that. I just got to drive 20 minutes. I could go do that too. It's not as pretty of an area, but it's Lake Michigan tarp, right. And then you know I've still got the ponds and all that and I prefer river fish, definitely the pond fish I kind of do when it's high water, you know, because if you can't see them then you can't catch them. That's just the name of the game, right. So I'll just adapt to whatever the conditions are. You can catch them.
Speaker 1:Sometimes, like I shouldn't say if you can't see them, you can't. You know, if there's a will there's a way, you know, but it's really not that fun. So like you're kind of like chasing bubble lines, so like when they're feeding, like they'll leave like a bubble trail and you'll kind of just like walk, yeah, the bubble line down and find where those bubbles are coming from, and like, if you do it long enough, you kind of have an idea of where that fish's head is and you just kind of drag it past and wait. You know like you'll feel it go tight. You won't really feel a tug, but like you, if you keep your fly line kind of just stripping in consistently, you'll feel it kind of go tight and you gotta, it's really quick and you gotta just set it.
Speaker 1:And I've actually caught one of my favorite uh fish doing that. It was like uh. So you see, in uh, you like across, you know, in uk you know they get those like those giant carp though I mean they look like they have a freaking basketball in their stomach, you know but they're like completely no scale, like leather cart they're called. So this fish, the one uh I'm talking about, is probably the closest I've gotten to a full leather. It's the only one I haven't gotten is a full leather cart. It was one side of it was completely no scale and then on the other side it just had like like uh, it's like a line of scales, like a lateral line of scales almost, and I was, I was so excited I thought I was like, oh, I finally got my leather and I flipped it over and I was like, oh, damn, you know, but still a cool one so what?
Speaker 2:what is this like? Is this still a common carp that's just lost its scale due to?
Speaker 1:like something to do with genetics, like I mean, it's like some sort of mutation, I believe. Okay, yeah, yeah, oh, like, yeah, you know they interesting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, one billion.
Speaker 2:They're weird looking, but I mean they're cool, but like, yeah, those ones out there, man, like you know it's so different, like the carp, you know, over there versus over here, right, like they I know in the uk they like, love them, some of the they love them and some of the ponds you have to pay, like you know, a thousand bucks or 400 bucks to get the fishing for two days or three, whatever the amount of time, and they'll go there. And you know there's many different things. But there's like people that will set up scarecrows where they plan to fish so that the carp get used to something there and then when they go to fish that day they take the scarecrow down and they're able to stand in the water and the carp, you know, are used to something being there. And then, you know, along with that they they eat the swim and all that stuff.
Speaker 1:They eat it. They've got hog biscuits, and yeah, so They've got their biscuits in there. They've got their can hats.
Speaker 1:You know their unhooking mats, you know, and out here it's like it's crazy. People just don't even want them, you know, drag them on the bank. They get no respect out here, which is it's sad. But no respect out here, which is it's sad. But uh, you know, it's the ones out there. I feel like they're kind of like domesticated tarp, almost. You know, like they're fed. Yeah, they're like hand like, almost you know. That's why they get so big is because they're they're just get fed all the time.
Speaker 2:You know people throwing in dog biscuits and well and you know, same kind of scenario for you is yeah, that's their fishery, right, if they didn't have carp in their lakes and whatnot, they wouldn't be fishing for a whole heck of a lot and not something that fights the way a carp does. Uh, yeah, I, if I had more time, and probably mostly if I wasn't guiding and I was, you know, in town all the time carp would have its place. But I think you know something you were saying about the carp being cold, that it's a big lake. It doesn't really warm up, so you'd really have to put in a lot of groundwork in the shallows. It's like the big it's. It's called Elk Lake and then there's like another lake attached to it called um, I believe, beaver Lake, and I've heard more people having success in the beaver lake area because it's a little shallower and you know, if you do have some kind of flotation device, probably best to not be using a tube. But if you could get around quietly and see something tailing or look for those bubbles, that's how I found them.
Speaker 2:My biggest carp was caught on just like a, a worm. I cast it out a worm, I forgot my tackle box and the guy next to me who does a lot of carp fishing, was like, yeah, man, just throw on a worm, cast it out like something will eventually pick it up. And, sure enough, uh, a little bit into it all of a sudden my same, they play so much with it. Right, I watched it. A worm like eat it, damn it, and it I'm watching my tip just like bounce around and finally it grabbed it. But I got into fly fishing a little bit after that and that's where I met this gentleman that uh, yeah, okay, I'm like deep, he'd get trout as well, he would get trout as well, but he was turning carp and he was the carp guy. And yeah, I mean, I've seen, I've seen and heard of large carp caught in that lake, but I've never visually seen one feeding in the shower yeah, you're gonna get on a fly ride.
Speaker 1:Then like, yeah, I mean, when there's just been this, it's the time it'd be tough there's probably a window.
Speaker 2:There's probably a window where they're in the zone. I would almost think you know kind kind of like your berry there, if you could make a fly, because also once it's summer there's a lot of weeds. You could have like an intermediate line with like a floating bug. Almost We'll cast that out, let it all get low. I would have to spend some time trying to fly out. We'll go spend some time to figure it out Carp, fish, the hell out of it. You saw the comment on my post and that's why we're doing this podcast, because you're like, hey, let's talk carp.
Speaker 1:I know carp, I love fishing, for all fish. I'm not necessarily like I only want to catch one thing, you know, but like you're, you know, if there's one fish, I would say like I would be like uh, confident and being like I could take you out and put you on a cart, like that's, if you know how to cast, I could probably put you on one, you know, like that's, I've kind of spent a lot of time. You know how to cast, I could probably put you on one, you know, like that's, I've kind of spent a lot of time. You know a lot of fish under my belt. I think one summer it was like the first summer I really got into chasing them and it was like you know, take a picture of every fish you kind of caught, kind of.
Speaker 1:Then I was in that kind of caught kind of then that was, I was in that uh, that uh kind of time in my life and I think I counted like 160 and, like you know, one summer I was like man, I've been doing this for like five, six years now, like I'm probably like six, seven hundred, you know, fish under the belt now for the carp, and it's kind of it's gotten to the point where, like, yeah, I go fishing with a four weight and, like you know, like, if it's not, like and then on a two-handed rod, you're like what else that's, uh, something I've been really trying to dial in this past summer and I've gotten a few.
Speaker 1:But we get like a lot of big like grass beds kind of grow and there's a certain. I think I hit it too late last summer because eventually those fish just like stick in that grass field can't even like they'll be like walking through the grass field and like you'll be stepping on them.
Speaker 1:You know they'll take off. It's like they don't move for nothing when they're in those, when they're in those little fields or whatever it makes it tough. Um, but this, uh, this spring I'm gonna dial, I'm gonna, I'm gonna probably try to dial it in a little more. You know, it's getting done. The larger, the larger river, and I mean, I've seen some, some megas in there, uh, this past year, you know, and it's like one of those uh spots, like a, it's like a bridge fishing spot. All these guys go park on it and fish off the bridge, you know. So I just kind of was like checking it out, looking on the bridge and, uh, you could just see them out there, and it was during our cicada hatch. So I was trying to throw a popper off the bridge at him, but I wasn't worried. I was like I hooked this fish. I don't even know I'm gonna like crane, lift it up, you know, uh, but you can get down in there and then, you know, swing it down.
Speaker 1:It's like a big dam. You just started the dam and it's it's. It's a pretty cool fishery. It it's like a series of channels. You know it's weird, like no, like gravel, it's like it's kind of hard to navigate. You know it's very up and down. Those fish kind of just fit in like the middle of those, you know middle of those channels, and I was kind of like swing, you know, right right into those. I'll stand in the shallows and swing a fly right in there.
Speaker 1:And you know if, like, you gotta kind of like when you're swinging, kind of adam, like I've noticed you, you gotta get one to chase, otherwise, like you're just gonna snag them. You know, cause they tend to like sit in pods of five or six fish I've kind of noticed. You know, like it's like a family of carp, I say, or whatever. You know there's always like the one big one that you want to kind of get so like. If you kind of like, if you work too close to them like and you just you snag one of, get so like, if you kind of, if you work too close to them like and you've just you snag one of them or make too much disturbance, you know like they just they shut down and they don't really like reset, like once a carp is spooked, it's it done, like done, go, go, find the next one that you're not going to get that one to eat yes, they're very aware.
Speaker 2:Um, what's the difference in a river carp versus a lake carp in terms of uh the fight?
Speaker 1:I feel like the river fish are just like, uh, stronger, so like I mean they got that current. You know they're always swimming against the current and they're like you can feel it in their body, like they're like different right, like they're like more muscular. They don't have as much like fat on them. They're not, as you know, fat. The lake tarp they fight good, but like they're not like what you would like. The Great Lakes fish I've gotten they fight good but they're not like taking me all the way down to. I have nothing left on my reel right Like the river tar carp will do that, like they'll, just they'll smoke you. The lake ones, not so much the river ones, are easier to catch, I think. I just think they're more like they just want to eat more.
Speaker 1:You know the lake Michigan fish are a little. You know they're different, it's I've only gotten a few of them, but like they're kind of like you'll see, like a pod of them cruising. You'll kind of like pass, you know it's like a cross-tackling drill in football, right? You kind of want to like meet the like pass, you know it's like a cross tackling drill in football, right, you kind of want to like meet the fish, you know, and then, like one will kind of like turn off and then, and I eat, those ones are like I don't know, you don't, I just kind of just keep stripping, stripping, stripping, stripping until I'm I, you know, and I don't really like see the heat because of the waves or whatever's going on.
Speaker 1:Where we are at, the wind really can change things up real quick. Lake Michigan's pretty big. I don't know the current like it makes it tough to see. So it's kind of just you see them, see them, and you just kind of try to cast at them and strip in. You know, the river ones are more like precise accuracy, kind of kind of stuff. It definitely makes you a good angler. You know, if you're like trying to learn how to fly fish and you know you got carp around, they're like, yeah, you'll learn how to cast pretty, pretty quick, you know, and pretty accurate. It's a pretty, it's pretty quick, like I always be. Like you know they'll be feeding and then, like you know, you gotta just feel like you know they'll be feeding and then, like you know, you've got to feel like an opportunity to get your fly there and put it in the zone before the fish moves to a different spot.
Speaker 2:Pretty, like you know, for a fish that's not really sought after. Once again, you know it's a sight fish, which is awesome. You know you've got to see them, see them fight hard and they're smart. You know they they will shut off If you spook them. They'll refuse flies constantly. Like it's pretty sweet fishery. You're definitely lucky. You know if, if you didn't have carp, what would you be fishing for? Bass? Smallmouth bass which bass are fine, but they're not a carp. They're not a carp, they're not a good trout Smallmouth In my opinion.
Speaker 1:Actually out by me, the smallmouth, the carp fishing is so good out by me. And like the smallmouth, like I said, like the carp fishing, so good out by me, like our smallmouths, just like you know, they're all right, they're just not like you know. You see, like the wisconsin northwood smallmouth and they're like these massive fish like ours are just like skinny, starving smallmouth. I mean, I don't know what it is, I just I don't think we have as much food that they want to eat. But like, yeah, our carp are freaking massive, so I might as well. I'm like, yeah, you know, I'm gonna fish for those.
Speaker 1:Like so the first time I went carp fishing, uh, my buddy picks me up and he, uh, he said, uh, we're gonna, we're gonna go part fishing today. I said, uh, what, what man? Like, let's go smallmouth fishing, I don't want to go part fishing. Why would I ever want to go part fishing, you know? And he's like, trust me, dude. So okay, whatever we go to the creek that we go to.
Speaker 1:And like I was standing on like an eight foot tall ledge and I just like, dipped this fly down into the water and uh, yeah, man, this fish just turned on it. My buddy says that's the hook, and I go and the fish just takes off. And I remember I was getting there just like laughing, you know, like this fish just taking line, I'm just like laughing. My buddy jumps down the ledge and he's like running down the creek with the net, you know. And then I got like uh, it's a very Hispanic area out by where I fish at, you know, and so like we got, like you know, like the, the ice cream cart, I, the paletta guy, you know, he's like right next to me, like laughing with me, you know, and I was like this is awesome. And ever since then, dude, I just freaking got carp obsessed, you know, and after like three, four years I just freaking chased them down, you know, and now it's, I'm pretty pretty confident on my carping skills.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, man. No, it's good. I mean, it's such a sweet fishery to have. You know, if I didn't have trout or salmon around me and there was carp, I would a hundred percent be chasing carp. The the people that I have talked to that are super into carp. There's it's either like why would I fish carp? Or yeah, you know, it's usually not someone in between. If you fished enough carp, I feel like you'd be like.
Speaker 1:So I'll find other guys doing like the like, the like, packing, like.
Speaker 2:Find you like packing the bait you know and like that's what you yeah, that's what we were doing when I was like I was just getting back into fishing I was kind of getting out of the club scene, you know needed something to do started fishing worms and power bait off the docks and started going to the docks like every day, every chance I could, I would go to the docks for at least a few hours with the boys that I met out there. And there was this one older guy I actually ended up taking him on a drift. I saw him at my river and I was like what are you doing here? And he's like carp fishing's been so much so. I saw him at my river and I was like what are you doing here? And he's like carp fishing's been slow. So I'm trying the river thing and I was like, dude, I will take you down the river because you gave me he was trolling, um flies and specifically trolling on a sinking line, uh grasshopper pattern. It worked so good that there was no reason for me to question why they wanted a sunken grasshopper like 20 feet down. But yeah, he was. He was like a large portion of, like you know, thinking about things.
Speaker 2:And then we started doing carp fishing together because he was doing it every time. Um, we caught a carp, barbie rod rod, we like put a giant ball on, threw it out there and that was hilarious. It was like a I don't know, probably an april. Yeah, that thing was like ice fishing, you know things just like keeled over, um, but yeah, and then I started doing it on on the fly, trying to that's when I like only really went to lakes and then I got interested the rivers and pretty much that. That stopped that. I mean it's same thing. Like you said, I could go to a lake right now, catch a trout and that will probably do some kind of run, but mostly like helicopter, in like just big circles until I get them in.
Speaker 2:Or I could go to the lake or the river and catch the same size trout where I'm questioning exactly right, yeah gone, you know, and then I get it in and I'm like oh, that was a 16 inch trout that gave me an intense rut and, you know, solid rut, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, man. No, they are like the pond, stuff's cool. Uh, we had a river. They're just. You know where it's at.
Speaker 2:I think you know and like and as far as like your feeding thing, like it sounds my my theory because I think lakes are, you know, especially if it was wild trout in a lake, but any fish in a lake they have way more time to look at your food source or your fly and decide if that's a food source or not, and decide if that's a food source or not where.
Speaker 1:when you're on a river and you know what carp is hungry and something goes by it like what's really shocking from going to go for it and like, yeah, it's like, feel like when they're like flipping up stuff or rooting around, like I guess when that, that falling presentation next to their head, like they actually think something like a bug popped out of the, popped out of the substrate, you know, and then that's when they'll, that's why they turn. You know, you always got to put it to the left or the right. You know, I've, I've tried. I'm like all right in front and I to the left or the right. You know, I've tried, I'm like all right in front, and I feel like when you put it right in front of them, like they just don't pick up on it. You know, because your eyes are kind of right, they have real good vision too, from what I've heard, like carp could like pick out silhouette like of people. You know, like you were coming back to the scarecrows right, were coming back to the Scarecrows, right.
Speaker 1:So like you always want to wear like light blues or like green, like light greens, right, like kind of whatever is in your background that you want to try to match with it, like I'll have a buddy that'll come out and he's like, yeah, right, you know, like I'll have a buddy that'll show up in a black hoodie? Yeah, oh, you know I gotta show up. Show up in a black hoodie, yeah, oh man, I'm doing. I'm getting down there, my hands and knees crawling up, you know, peeking out. I have a buddy show up in a black hoodie and I'm like no dude, like you gotta go home and like change your shirt, like I'm not gonna go, I'm not gonna fish with you, because you're just going to scoop all these fish and we have a oh, you're good.
Speaker 2:Sorry to cut you off. I'm just pondering. Let's say we're in a river and we're chasing carp. Would you still try to get behind them or the angle of the cast that you need to make? You need to be above them.
Speaker 1:Or is it a little bit of whatever. I feel like it's more like your shadow, right, you want to pay attention to more where your shadow has been cast, like it does help if they're not looking at you, cause I mean a feeding part, like you could. You could. You'd be surprised how close you could get up to. I mean, I would say 90 of my fish I catch are probably within 10 feet of me. Like they're right, they're right there.
Speaker 1:You know so, like when they're, when they're doing their thing, eating, and especially a fish that's really in the mood and it's like really got its. You know so, like when they're doing their thing eating, and especially a fish that's really in the mood and it's like really got it's. You know, tail up, head down, it's in the zone. Like you get right on top of those fish, like they won't. But as soon as they stop eating and they see you, they spook.
Speaker 1:You know so, like it's kind of like the game of like can I get two more steps closer? You know like you set yourself up, you're like, oh, I can get a better catch if I'm like two more feet to the right. You got like a tree right here or something you know, and like it's kind of it's fun, it depends on that game. You know like really get up by them. The the cicada thing was cool, just like they didn't give a shit. They just they didn't give a shit. Like like normally you mix one or it goes for your fly and you miss it, like it's done. You know these fish were coming back like they didn't care. They were on the freaking prowl for cicadas, it was it was crazy.
Speaker 2:So, uh, we don't have cicadas out here, um, and you said every 13 years, and then there's another like how is it, do you get cicadas every year, or is it literally every 13 years, or is there like different matches, you know?
Speaker 1:so yeah, like we have like the annual, you know the annual cicadas there's. They hatch every year but there's not as many of them. You know they're kind of like you'll see them, but uh, I think each. You know there's a, there's a few guys. I'm definitely not like an expert on them, but I know, like region wise, you know like there's different hatches, so like this year's hatch is going to be in a different state. You know like it's not going to be in Illinois, it'll be, it'll be somewhere else, but ours is every 13 and 17 years. It's like insane. You know like the trees are covered in them kind of thing, and like they're loud. You know I remember the last time it happened, the I was in like eighth grade and I remember like skateboarding down the street and it was just like you needed headphones in to drown them out. Like it's how loud they were, you know. So I was looking.
Speaker 2:I bet at some point in time someone was like oh yeah, man, people were freaking out People time someone was like oh, I can't teach it.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, people are freaking out. People are freaking out like like screaming.
Speaker 2:Oh.
Speaker 1:I can hit them left and right, like yeah, I'm like I'm not going to switch my car right now, I'm just going to be smoking cicada I was looking for. I was like, like when I got into fly fishing I'm like man, like in like five or six years, like we're going to have this, like cicada hatch is going to happen and like man, I bet you it's going to be, you know like it's going to be nuts and so you know it was waiting down, waiting down for it. And you, uh, so you know it was waiting down, waiting down for it, and uh, you know, finally it was the year for it, you know. So we're like whipping up all these cicadas flies, just like trapping my one buddy who got me into fly fishing, you know like he uh, the past few years, you know he's like started a family and stuff, so he hasn't really been able to get out as much. But he told his wife for like four or five years, like when cicadas happen, like I'm fishing every weekend, you know, and he definitely went, you know, by his word, he was out every single weekend with me. We were having double up on cart.
Speaker 1:You know it never happened, putting on fishing, like there's a spot we fish and there's a bunch of bars and whatever like restaurants off this canal. So there's always like people out on the balcony and like we're like putting on a fishing show for these people. You know, it was a lot of fun. Next time it happens, I'll be like I like I'll be older, I don't even know. You know I won't be wanting to walk 13 miles probably. That's for sure, but it was. Yeah, I was happy. You know, I had a couple buddies out, you know older guys, and we were like man. The next time this happens, like we'll be like pushing you guys in a wheelchair down this freaking path right here. You know, yeah, it was cool. You know something, something that like, uh, definitely unique. It was definitely unique, like I'd never seen anything like it. The fish you would oh you would normally catch that tail up, head down, like we were just walking past them, like that one's not eating on top.
Speaker 2:I'm good yeah, so interesting. I had a client actually over the summer who was talking about cicada fishing for carp um, which I thought was really cool. So you know, but cicada, it's just such an interesting the fact that they can, their eggs can last or their larvae can last, you know, 14 years, 13 years, underground right, and then they come up do their thing. Yeah, three weeks it's over.
Speaker 2:It's wild. I mean, like dragonfly, nymphs live in lakes and whatnot for up to a year, um, and then come out and then their life. Yeah, but like everything underneath are cicadas. What are they eating? A ton of plant life, like, is it? What are they doing when they come out?
Speaker 1:be honest, like I don't. I don't know if they really eat when they come. So like they like drill holes in, uh, like branches on trees and then they lay, you know, like the, the larva or whatever, into the eggs, into the tree branch, and then the tree branch falls off and then they fall into the ground. So like, when they emerge from the ground, it's like your lawn gets aerated right, like there's just holes all over the place, so then they fall back, you know, into those holes and then it repeats. I've heard that they, when they're in the ground, they survive on tree root sap. I believe I heard I watched them, like Okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:Like if you're in an area where there's like a lot of old trees and stuff like that's where they're gonna be. So, like in my concrete jungle area, there was no cicadas. It was kind of a bummer. You know, I was like damn, I was really looking forward to that. But you know there's a few others that I was like all right, like they'll be there and share shit. Yeah, they were freaking everywhere so I guess they could like I don't know something on YouTube I watched but it was like they could like tell like the season by like the tree root, sap taste or something, and like like they like out the seasons Cause they'll like that's how like they emerge, you know, every 17 years and it's either like two years early or two years late. You know they'll never like be in between those years.
Speaker 2:It's kind of fascinating, you know like well, and even, like you were saying, with like the you know your old buddies being like god, you know, next time I we fish for these or fish with this, I'll be pushing you down in a wheelchair. Imagine being the scientist that you're like I'm going to crack this code. The first year it happens you're like cool, and you're like seven plus years down the road and then you do it again and now you're, you know, you're in your 60s, thinking, retiring, and you really only really check them out. Right opportunity, yeah, free, only got three opportunities, three opportunities. I would imagine that there isn't a ton you know, or it would have to be like passed down.
Speaker 1:I know they pass like throughout the country in different areas, like I talked to this one guy on Instagram and he's like really, really big into the chasing the hatch.
Speaker 1:You know like so he'll like drive, you know, all around chasing the hatch. You know like so he'll like drive, you know all around chasing it. I'm like that's pretty sweet. You know, like definitely, uh wouldn't mind maybe doing that one, you know, checking that out one time or whatever, just go see it somewhere else. You know, I just kind of do it mostly like uh, the car, I just I pretty much cart fish in my area. You know I don't really venture out, like like I never I've never went and cart fished and like down south or anything, you know like just I got the metric.
Speaker 2:You got it at home. What's your season Like most?
Speaker 1:part like what's your season, like most part, like I mean you, if you wanted to, you could, you could fish from all year. I guess if you find like some hot water, it's very like out by me, a lot like industry, a lot of factories and stuff. There's a lot of hot water discharges pumping into our, our rivers. Um, like the place I work at, you know, or like, uh, they, uh it's a big corn refinery, so like they break corn down and separate everything out of it and, uh, you know, use it for ingredients for food, pretty much. So there's a hot water discharge there that I always, I always try to get to go fish. Man, they never let me and I'm like give me a key to that gate, like I want to drive back around lunch, go cartfish.
Speaker 1:But for the most part, if you're not finding hot water, uh, a warm day in February, um, to like I don't know, I would say end of September is kind of the. You know you could, you could find them, I guess in, like you know, october. I'm sure I just kind of switch over to like you know going looking for, you know steelhead and you know going looking for, you know steelhead, and you know about that time of the year I kind of yeah, so what's like a hot season would be in September, but it would be like once it gets cold, man, like they really shut down like that first real cold morning.
Speaker 1:Like they definitely like shut down faster than it, kind of like they get ramping up. I guess I would say like the whole like yeah, like the beginning of the season, like you know, like they're pretty like willing to eat a fly, well, like and like for, like you know, pretty much throughout the summer. And then it gets to the end of summer and they get a little like lazy and a little more skittish because the water is low and then it gets cold and then they just like shut off and they go disappear like it's pretty quick, you know, overnight shut off and they go disappear like it's pretty quick, you know overnight they're gonna kind of gone. At least that's what I've noticed, you know. I do know guys that you know they do go fish for them on. You know, like we've had some like weird like 50 degree, you know 50 degree days in december, you know, which doesn't really happen until now, I guess. But like, and my buddy went out and he got a couple, you know, I just I don't really chase them right now, I just like it's cold. I don't really feel like going out there right now and doing it, uh, but like next month, like I uh, february 2nd, that was my earliest fish, earliest carp, last year. I don't think I'll beat it this year but I'll definitely probably go try.
Speaker 1:You know, take off the people, I go, uh, I go fish at this this one uh stretch, and uh, the people always say, like I know it's springtime because I see you walking around. I've just been stopping there, you know, like a mile and a half kind of stretching the canal and I just freaking walk it down all day long. They've seen me, you know, years now just walking it. You meet some funny people there. You know one guy, he like pulled up and us and he was like man, I used to have a hat and said if you're not a carp fisherman, you're not shit like dude. Let me get one of those, like I'd like that.
Speaker 1:But yeah, pretty, still right now I'm just cooped up. You know, cold winter, nothing really. The rivers are locked up right now. Then I go fish. Our stuff will freeze up, unfortunately. So, yeah, I've been doing a lot of fly tying, though, man, right now I'm off work, at the moment I'm in the trades. So you know how that is right Slow here and there and whatever. So just taking advantage Just a little bit of time off. Time flies doing some shit around the house, you know so yeah, man, easy, simple.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man, it's. You know I have winter steelhead out here and every season I'm like I'm not even going to chase them in early season, I'll just wait till the water is warming up and the days are longer and all that. But I keep going out anyways and disregarding what I say, and you know, this year has been really warm, like I said, the river has been fishing really quite well. I haven't been really chasing trout or like like smaller trout, just the steelhead, but yeah, it's been like so warm, seeing bugs hatching and all sorts of things. So yeah, tomorrow's trip is going to be targeting trout, but we're going to swing a few runs for steelhead and see what happens.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I think about staying home and being warm. Yeah, I don't. But last year it was freezing and I blew up a reel because it got frozen and you know, had a, had a small fish on and I like pulled the line out and then all of a sudden it was just like soft reel anymore. So, yeah, cold weather can, yeah, it does things to a man yeah, I got a spay coat.
Speaker 1:I really like my spay coat a lot. Um, it seems to do pretty well when it's like cold. I never had it like really locked up or anything on me yet.
Speaker 2:The fault that I made was the reel got into the water and I like didn't you know it? Just everything froze up, it was rock solid and pulled the line out and it just blew up. I did get the reel fixed, all good, got it back, happy camper. But now I got, you know, a click and pull for my spay rod. So I don't really know if that would even that same scenario would have affected it or what that same scenario would have affected it or what.
Speaker 2:Long story short though you know, get out and steelhead even though I don't uh, you know, steelhead fishing on the west side is, can be pretty tough. My river is definitely not an easier river for them. There's, I talked to other people who swing flies and they're like oh yeah, you know, and they it sounds to, at least to me, like they get them more often. Um, but yeah, you hook into one of those and it's just different. I mean, you know, it's like going for bass all the time and then hooking in. You know the difference, like, you're like well, there's, there's a fish yeah, one day, man, I'd love to get out by you someday.
Speaker 1:I gotta get a passport or one of those real IDs or whatever the hell, I don't even know, but I gotta get on that. I had an opportunity to go go out there to some guy that I talked to on Facebook and he had some pretty cool stuff out, um out by you. And he was like hey, like I need to help building on a house, and he's like I'll give you like a week of fishing if you come build, help me build this house. And I'm like I don't do it, I don't have a passport, otherwise like I totally would, but it's like a six month wait or something for for me to get one, unfortunately, but maybe one day.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, man it's. I think you can drive into canada without a passport. Don't hold me accountable for that.
Speaker 1:Um, for some reason I don't know why I think that I think I looked up the drive lying it's like so, because I was telling my, my wife, about you know this and I was like how long would it take you to get there, you know? And it was like it wasn't an easy ride. It was like it was like 25 hours or something.
Speaker 2:I was like gee you'd want to like fly to like somewhere yeah, you know, seattle or something, that area and then drive up from there, because, like, to get to seattle from the island takes no time. You know, you can get on the clip as a ferry and I think it's like six hours or something or maybe even less. I haven't done it. I once sailed to Seattle, but yeah, the thing about being on an island is you're kind of subject to fares when you're flying and they charge. They know what they got. They're like farewell. Yeah, exactly, there's so many cool fisheries out there. This is another one Cartfishing. You got trout next to you and steelhead or east coast steel. Yeah, east coast steel.
Speaker 1:I did make my first run out to like new york this past, uh fall and did like the the salmon river out there in palatka and you know a couple other rivers and it was cool, man, it was definitely. It was definitely something different, you know like, but man, they have a, they just have a shit load of fish in that lake erie, man, fuck they. It was. I mean like where I, where I fish lake michigan, like on my side, like we have a lot of fish, but like out there it was like you know, especially that stuff in like that eerie kind of area, like it was like you walk up and you see 50 like 50 steelhead in in a creek. You're like I was like what you know, like this isn't, this isn't what I'm used to at all, but like the salmon river was definitely like, uh was not like that. That was like one of those like definitely got to work, work for your fish. Right, you know I, I like that, so I like to swing flies. You know it's pretty much all I, all I really do to fish for them.
Speaker 1:I've never really been like a uh, you know, bobber kind of kind of fisherman, like. So I I got into a guy um, I met. He's pretty just diehard spay guy and uh, that's how I got introduced to the whole, like you know, steelheading thing. So I was like, from that in there, man, I was like I had two hands and no hands for these fish and and you know, like it went like three, four years I didn't even touch a fish, you know, and I'm like I just kind of cracked the code and all of a sudden this freaking hammer and I'm, when I go out there now it's pretty, it's pretty great, you know. So I'm like I don't even you know, one fish a day, one fish a time. I guess when I go out there I'm like perfectly content with that, like I'm just like, all right, I get one, I'm like I'm good to go home, you know yeah.
Speaker 2:It doesn't take much. I've been in a slump the last few years I've said that enough times in the recent but I keep hooking them and just not landing them, so it's been sad times for that. The one thing, though when I was first starting out, I just thought about things less, I'd cast out, I'd let it swing. Now I feel like I have more in my head like what am I doing? What is this cat? What is this? And now it's like, but in the last two years I've hooked quite a few um. So you know, it's like. It's not like I've swung for two years.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, you're doing it right. Yeah.
Speaker 2:It really started off. My first steelhead was what ruined me for buying so much steelhead stuff and gearing towards them every year because I was so new to river fishing in general, and then to go do steelheading as kind of my introduction to rivers and then to catch, you know, a large steelhead and realize like holy shit, this is in the water. And then every year after that I was getting into them, the first year one, second year, two, third year, three, fourth year, four, fifth year. I was like we're going in deep. I lost six and then this, the the sixth year, um, I hooked five and this is my seventh year of steelheading and yeah, I've hooked two, not on the swing, I don't really target them on nymphs, but I will throw a nymph in a spot when I'm there leaving or something like I was with my son and I in my mind I had like a little seven weight or five weight, seven foot kids rod from echo.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, I know that one here and in my, in my mind, I was like, how funny would it be to hook a steelhead? And I like cast it in. He was on my shoulders, we were casting together and then I was like, let me get a cast in there. So I cast it in um a couple of times and all of a sudden it just like went tight. I set the hook, it pulled down, snapped the line, and my wife was behind me and I like looked over and I was like, did you see that? And she was like, what was that? Like of course, of course, I would like you know just swung the run multiple times. The sun was playing around with trout, you know. And then I decided to do that and sure enough there was one there. He just hit my fly.
Speaker 1:That's how they are right, there was one there. He just, yeah, I fly how they are right, so I'll go in the that eerie spot, you know, the 50 steelhead in a pool or whatever. There's one pool and I had like probably like 112 or whatever, and, like my buddy, he got, he nymphed one up and then, like these older guys, you know, I don't know how it is out by you, but out by us it's pretty like, pretty bad. Like these guys just like walked right across the creek, you know, directly across from us, started casting, you know, and like they got one. And I was like, and we're about to leave and I'm like, oh, you know, I'm going to just like swing a fly through. I had had like one of those like belly pigs, you know, like that atlantic fly or whatever, and never fished it before then. But I'm like, yeah, maybe it'll work. And yeah, man, freaking, one fish, you know, in that pool wanted the swung fly. None of the other ones wanted it. No, that was pretty cool though, uh, but uh, yeah, like, uh, so I pretty much you, you know, it's my thing, you know, tart fish when it's warm out and steelhead fish when it's cold out. You know, that's kind of what I like to do. The tarp is definitely like my roots, though I would say, like you know, yeah, I mean I love to go ahead. Anyway, I love swinging. I can think of like I just love swinging flies, like the whole method on there, like I like to do it for bass and carp as well, you know. So it's just kind of you know it's it's my my thing, but like yeah thing, but like, yeah, the carp stuff is just definitely, uh, you know, paved the, started my whole angling kind of kind of thing out.
Speaker 1:You know I always fished when I was a kid for like large mouth, bath and time, little stuff or whatever. And then I stopped fishing for a while. I'm just, like you know, skateboarded and whatever, just little punk kid you know from whatever. And then, uh, I I was like 20, 22 and I got sober and then I uh went to this pond. It was just like bass fishing. I caught, like this, like four pound largemouth and I was like damn man, I've been missing like four pound large mouth and I was like damn man, I've been missing that you know, this one I've been missing, or whatever. And then, uh, my buddy showed me his fly rod and ever since then, dude, just freaking, whacking carp and freaking. I love it. I'm excited for this spring yeah, awesome.
Speaker 2:Well, we've been going on for a little bit here, so let's um, after this, let's wrap her up. But what? Let's say someone right now. Obviously we've talked about a lot of this information, but if someone wanted to get into carp fishing whether it's out here where you know it seems impossible, or it's out there could be more possible um, what would you suggest? Like rod reel line whatever you think of I know the reel might not matter that much, but like, go start from the top. What should their box look like? And then what should they do? And actually, you know, like or yeah.
Speaker 1:So, uh, I mean, like you know you don't really need nothing fancy, right? You know it's a card stick, you know. So, like I always like those like, uh, you know like what you would get like a almost like a beginner combo or something like an Orvis Clearwater or a Reddington Crosswater or whatever. I don't even know if they make that one anymore, but just one of those standard hits. It comes with a decent rod, a decent floating line and then these real just whatever. It comes with nothing special, you know, uh, something with some drag, probably. You know, depending on you know this is, I'm looking at this. I got through like a beginner's you know, mindset, um, so nine foot eight weight, you know would be a good one. Or a 10 foot seven weight, uh, and then a net. You're gonna want a net, definitely want a net. You know they've I've snapped some rhymes trying to tail a carp or whatever. You know, it's just they're, they're hard, they're like they're slimy. You can't get a grip of them, like they just didn't, you know. So, definitely that nine foot eight weight, um, floating line, uh, I just fished like mono pippet, you know, 10 pound, 12 pound, 8 pound, if I'm really feel like I gotta get sneaky on them. It's just like your nine foot leader, you know, uh, why, depending on what is in your water. You know, definitely that's gonna be the. You know, determine that. But's going to be the. You know, determine that.
Speaker 1:But, like you know, like the John Montana's hybrid carp fly, that's like a pretty good one. I believe he fishes that on the Columbia River in Oregon. I believe I believe that's where that fly was originated in. So like I don't know, I believe that's what that fly was originated in. So like I don't know. So, those like the Louser swimming nymph, you know it's like a little buggy-looking thing. You know your leeches, you got crayfish. You know, like dave pinchowski's wing craw is a great. That's a great fly, super easy to tie.
Speaker 1:Uh, you know, like little gobies, you know, if you're in, you know big, great lakes or anything like that. Uh, then, like your top water stuff, like I mean like mulberries, cotton seed. Uh, cicadas, you know, if there's a cicada hatch, you know, I'm sure they would sip like an elk hair caddis. You know, off the top of the water too, you know, basically whatever is kind of like in the environment, you know they're kind of kind of tuned into that, like I, you know, then the cicadas like're going to kind of tune into that, like I, you know, then the cicadas, like I said, really kind of showed that this year, definitely, whatever the round is what they're going to, they're going to want to eat.
Speaker 1:So yeah, you know, and then just be prepared for a nice, a nice ride, you know, oh, and oh sorry. Nice ride, you know, oh and oh sorry. Let me say the most important, the most important thing A good pair of polarized sunglasses, number one, that is the number one you could see. You need to see them, you need to see them, you need to see them into the water. If you don't have your polarized shades, like drive home and get them.
Speaker 2:It makes it so much easier and then, just to wrap it up in a nice way, I got all this stuff. I'm hitting a river. I just go right to the river bank and start walking. That's probably wrong. I'm a little bit more quiet, yes, no.
Speaker 1:I mean definitely like you want to walk up, scan, you know, see if you see some fish, right, Like I said, like you'll look for tail kind of sticking out of the water. I mean like depends how shallow they are, but like I'll see them, their tails are like sticking out of the water. I mean like depends how shallow they are, but like I'll see them, their tails are like sticking out of the water. You know, you'll see them kind of like doing that. Look for like reeds, like any, like sort of like lily pads with like cattails, like they'll bump those and knock bugs off of those those too. So look for that, look for mud clouds and then, yeah, and then just walk, just keep walking, you know, and keep walking don't sit on one run and then if you spook one, move on.
Speaker 1:You know like but take a mental note yeah, oh yeah probably be back there kind of stay in that kind of kind of feeding area. But like, yeah, like, uh, over in water is the name of the game, man, when you're carp fishing just looking for fish, you know fresh, fresh fish that you haven't messed with yet. Uh, yeah, you know, that's pretty much.
Speaker 2:That's pretty much it yeah love it, man, practice your casting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely gonna practice that drag and drop method drag and drop.
Speaker 2:So once again you cast ahead of where you think the fish is further than you'd think and then drag it back and that has to be a little more stealthy and to have that just to pause it nicely on the bar to them. What was that fly? You showed me that one that you saw. It's kind of your job, hybrid cart too hybrid cart flies.
Speaker 1:These are a little different. I tie them with a bead head and some like lead wraps. Instead of that one's got a pink tail, that one's got an orange tail. You know they work great. They work great, man, pink like that. And then they you can tie them with like dumbbell eyes and stuff. You know, you know they'll rest on the bottom hook up. You always want your hook up for cart flies Because the way they eat it you know like you want your hook and you're getting down, they suck it out Also like less snags. You know like you want your hook and you're getting down, they suck it out Also like less snags. You know if you get your hook down, like if you have your hook point down and you're dragging a fly on the bottom right, it's going to get snagged. So having that hook up kind of is key to keeping that from happening.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a lot of good stuff to work on. Um, I know the few people that, uh, because I have a few people that have asked me about carp. That one just happened to get actually posted. Um, but, yeah, figure out the food source in the area that you're trying to fish and then, yeah, spend a lot of time with the banks trying to make your one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like one or two shots and and then, if you blow it in those, that's it. Yeah, and that's a look for the next. Yeah, don't spend too much time at one, like I mean, I'm guilty of it. Still, I'll spook one and like I'll, knowing, you know, even though I know better, I'll still like sit on that fish for like a half hour, you know, and like I just frustrate myself more and end up walking away.
Speaker 2:You know, catching a fish still anyways, yeah well Ken, yeah, it's a real pleasure having you on man. It was uh good talking about carp and I'm glad you got a sweet fishery, and it sounds like you're starting to dial things in at multiple different levels.
Speaker 1:So yeah, that's awesome. Come on here and talk. I appreciate it, man. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, we'll get you back on in like a year or two and then have some more information about the carp and you'll be like I've unlocked a two-handed game. If you're out here, I'll come out there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Right on All right man.
Speaker 2:All right, man. Well, you have a good night and we'll talk soon. We'll see you next time.