Kelly Rice: The Evolution of SEO (and what's working right now)

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If you’re a business owner looking to grow, the one thing you can’t afford to overlook is SEO.

But with all the changes to search algorithms and best practices, it can be hard to know where to start. It's not just about keywords and links anymore; it's about relevancy, user experience, and the overall quality of the content.

We've got two marketing experts on deck to talk about this subject: Travis and our guest Kelly Rice, founder of Treefrog Marketing. They tackle how SEO works in today's digital landscape and what makes a good SEO strategy. Kelly also shares how Treefrog creates effective systems that help businesses succeed.

Kelly is the founder and creative director for Treefrog Marketing, a Christian-based marketing agency that helps small businesses grow by providing them with proven marketing strategies. Since 2000, they've partnered with and trained small businesses to build effective marketing systems that save time, are easy to manage and duplicate, and generate better leads.

Whether you are a seasoned marketer or just starting out, this episode will give you the knowledge and confidence needed to make sure your SEO strategy is on point!

Specifically, this episode highlights the following themes:

• How to integrate SEO into an overall marketing strategy
• The best ways to optimize your website for search engines
• How to balance empathy & authority in customer service

Want to give your podcast the boost it needs to stay ahead of the competition? Check out honestpodcasts.com and take the first step toward achieving your podcasting goals!

And if you have a guest in mind who you think would be a great fit for this show, drop me a line at hello@honestpodcasts.com. 

Transcript

Kelly Rice  0:00  
We've been doing this a long time. So we've seen the changes in in technology and algorithms and all of those things. But we've also seen the things that have remained steady, that are constant. And if you're going to play in the digital world you have to have, you have to have a website. And it has to be strategically designed. And it has to be developed in a way that helps people make buying decisions based on where they are in their buying process.

Travis Albritton  0:34  
Welcome back to the Honest Marketing Podcast where you learn proven strategies to grow your business without selling your soul. I'm your host, Travis Albritton. And in this episode, I get to share a fantastic conversation I have with my good friend, Kelly rice, who's the creative director and founder of Treefrog marketing, which is they're just phenomenal at everything they do, and helping businesses, get more clients grow their revenue, and do it ethically, online. And so in this interview, you're gonna hear best practices for positioning messaging, sales, how to show up where your people are hanging out online, and how you can connect with them, understanding the different levels and stages of a buyer's journey. And also some really great nuts and bolts, practical things to make sure that you check off for some basics for digital marketing. So it's so easy to get distracted by the new shiny thing, and the new tech talk and the new whatever. But unless we have those fundamental pieces in place, we're leaving a lot on the table. And so we're going to cover the basics that every single business needs. In order to thrive and be set up for long term success online, make sure that you stick around to the end of the episode, we're going to share my number one takeaway from the interview with my friend Kelly rice, let's dive in. So Kelly, you've been in the world of marketing for longer than most people that are marketers, digital marketers, back before you even had the internet had like prints and things like that. And I know that a lot of things are shifting, and the fundamentals of how people think about digital marketing, performance marketing, Facebook ads, Google ads, cookies, all that kind of stuff. And there can be a sense of like, okay, well, how does this impact the way we think about marketing in the future? Or even next month? Or are we spending money over here? Are we investing in these kinds of things? And so since you've had a lot of exposure to trends and things that have come and gone? How are you thinking about just kind of the current state of digital marketing and marketing on the internet, considering all the things that you've seen over the last 20,25, 30 years?

Kelly Rice  2:35 
So you just call me old without calling me old?

Travis Albritton  2:40 
Wise. You are extremely wise, Kelly.

Kelly Rice  2:43 
Yes, yes. So it's a great question, though, right, because I'm in that, you know, Generation X years where we saw all the traditional marketing, and it was basically a, hey, we're just going to spend a ton of money, and we're just going to do everything, we have no idea what works, but we're just going to do everything. And then we started slowly moving into this digital realm, and then being able to understand the analytics and figure out what's working and what's not working, and all of that. So right now, with us working with so many small businesses, we play a lot in the digital space, because we have limited budgets, and we have to be extremely effective. So that's why I love it, because you're talking about oh my gosh, it might change next week, and you're absolutely right algorithms change, things that worked last month don't work. But that's why I love digital, because it's a quick switch, a quick change from a from a maybe a static ad to a video ad, maybe a few words change, you rearrange some copy, and then you try it again. And there's really not a lot of cost involved. In regard to if you're talking about redoing a radio ad, or a TV commercial or a newspaper, you know, half a full page newspaper ad that cost $2,000 You're like, oh, well, that didn't work, right. So a lot of the marketing budgets that we work with, you know, that $2,000 may last several months. So they get way more return on their investment. So the idea of something maybe changing in the next month or two is just a given. We don't look at that as like a type of risk or it's scary. We just expect it to happen and we just watch all the analytics. 

Travis Albritton  4:20  
Yeah, well, because there's always a tendency to like once you figure out something that works, you want to seize on it. And then there can be this sense of loss when it stops being so effective. Right? Like Instagram actually used to have good organic reach back in the day. 

Kelly Rice  4:35 
And now, just like TikTok. 

Travis Albritton  4:38 
Yeah. Or you got to pay to play, you know, Oh, you want to actually be in front of people that are following you. Well, that'll that'll cost $25 You know, and so.

Kelly Rice  4:49  
And it's funny that you mentioned that because of like the boom for TikTok, right. Like it used to be a tremendous space for influencers to go on and you you would sell all kinds of things on there, but now people when they see that little sponsored squirrel come up, they're like, and they just kind of move on, right? Because we don't want to be sold to, we don't want to feel like we're being sold to. And even that little ticker that pops up makes us feel like we're being sold to.

Travis Albritton  5:13 
Yeah. So when you look at kind of some of the trends and some of the shifts that have happened, in the recent past, thinking about Apple's updates, and how that's affected Facebook ads and tracking, Google ads, they keep kicking the can down the road, but at some point, they're going to be shifting the way that they track across the web. What are some of the things that are currently best practices, that in the near future, we're gonna have to reassess how we approach using those kinds of ways of digital marketing, whether it's Facebook Ads campaigns, or, you know, interest targeting or things like that.

Kelly Rice  5:47
Really, for small businesses, it's always a challenge, because unless you have a ton of money to play, or you're not a big company that's driving some of these algorithms, small businesses have struggled to compete in the digital market for a long time anyway, if you do things, the traditional digital marketing way, right, like we can't outspend the big dogs, so we have to be smart. So kind of changing your question and answering it a little bit differently. Some of the things that will always stay, no matter how you're you what tactics you're utilizing, or how you're utilizing those, utilizing the tactics. It's more about understanding your audience, helping them solve challenges and creating that personal connection with them before you jump in and tell them how great you are as a company. So no matter what technology changes, that aspect of how humans relate, won't change.

Travis Albritton  6:44  
Yeah, I definitely want to dig into some of that, because both of us are big Donald Miller fans. And so we'll we'll talk about some of those key principles that he harps on a lot that I think are super relevant. To your point, especially for small businesses. What are what are some of the tactics that you were seeing be successful with your clients, specifically thinking not necessarily at a starting phase, but you know, several, six figures, even seven figures revenue, what are some of the things that you're doing in that space that you've seen to actually like gain some good traction as far as, you know, attributing results and those kinds of things.

Kelly Rice  7:22 
So really understanding where their customers come from, and where they are in their buying journey. So we love developing content, blogs, helpful information, checklists, things that will help people make a better decision. So even if they don't necessarily go with our client, they're still making a better decision. So from our marketing perspective, and the types of customers that we work with, our whole goal is just to help people. So anytime that we can develop content that will help them it's tremendously, it's tremendously successful, because the end user understands that it's helpful information, it's not trying to coerce them into doing something. So that's one of our favorite things to do. But then you can also strategically build in those next steps if they're ready for it. Right, being able to one of the things that really works is offering them some very helpful free content, and then leading them down a path that says, or that gives them an opportunity to get a little bit more valuable information, creating that lead generating, whatever it is video series PDF, download something that's going to make their lives easier, but it still doesn't feel salesy. That works tremendously, because we actually get to capture their email address, and we get to have a small conversation with them about moving to the next step if they ever want to go to that decision making stuff. But then really going after that low hanging fruit when we talk about how do we work with small business and how do we do it? Well, they need to build capital fairly quickly. So whether you're small businesses a micro business, or if it's a $6 million small business, you still need that low hanging fruit capital. And that's where the social media ads are great. Your Google ads, your targeted emails, you know, retargeting in terms of if they've connected with you via an email content, and then they jump on Facebook, and they see an ad regarding something that might be able to help them all of those tactics seems to really help seems to really help build a relationship as opposed to selling something. And we found is, you know, as humans and everyday people that that seems to just work well. Anyway. So we try to create that for most of our clients and we try to even for people that are on our clients when they call and ask or want our opinion, it's divided them up low hanging fruit, you do this, you know, for the people that are still in the consideration stage, do these things for the ones that you need to make aware of your products or services, help them out as much as you can.

Travis Albritton  9:57  
Yeah, I think that's been a huge seismic shift is that I've seen in the last several years is a complete aversion to anything that's overtly high pressure sales. Like it's almost become baked into the DNA of how you interact with people on the internet. That there's an expectation that, No just because it's the best time for you to sell me something doesn't mean it's the best time for me to buy something.

Kelly Rice  10:21 
Right. And and if you use any sales language at all, I'm out.

Travis Albritton  10:25 
Right. Yes. Because why are you trying to persuade me to get something that I'm not even sure that I need? And there will always be like the, you know, the wishes of the world where it's like, oh, you know, what's 20 bucks on a flyer thing. But for most businesses that aren't ecommerce based, where you're trying to build long term relationships with clients, like the things that may have worked in the past, as far as just like messaging, or how you interact with your customers, and how important branding is now versus even 20 years ago, I think it's totally changed the game and the companies and entrepreneurs that are mindful of how do I show up to serve first. And then if it makes sense, develop a long term relationship, like in the long term, those are the businesses that are going to succeed.

Kelly Rice  11:12  
Absolutely. And sometimes we call it the wife communication method as well, right? Because being married, um, your wife probably understands this, too, that if we can get our husbands to think that it's their idea, it will be a lot easier forward with. So if our customers if if we're solving problems for them, if we're empathetic for building that relationship for them, knowing that they need this, and we're ethically going to provide it to them. We can just help them make that decision.

Travis Albritton  11:42  
So how do you strike the balance between empathy and authority? Because at one point, at a certain level, you want your clients, customers, members users, to have to understand that you know them, right that you understand their problems, you understand what they're going through, you understand what their needs are. But you also want to position yourself as someone who has the ability to step in and solve that problem. And that could that could feel like a tricky tension to hold where you don't want to be so empathetic, that they're like, well, you're just my peer. And so it's great that you understand my problem, but I'm not confident that you can solve it. But you also don't want to just so overemphasize the authority that you become this figure that's untouchable, or unreliable, or, you know, how can they, because they're so far removed from where I am? How can they actually serve and help me from where I am? Right now? How do you strike that balance with messaging, when you're working with clients to develop a copy for their websites? What are some of the things that you guys talked through to make sure that that you can do that effectively?

Kelly Rice  12:42  
So it's kind of funny, because a lot of people that are good at communication, or that are good at making friends and being there for others, they naturally go through this process, and they don't even think about it, right. So here's an example of, let's say, I have a 16 year old son, and he's done all of these crazy things, and you have a 16 year old son, and you just met me for the first time and you say, oh, my gosh, my son is doing all of these things. And I just jump in and go, Oh, you can fix it this way. You're gonna be like, I don't know you from Adam. Right? That's not how do I know this is gonna work. But if I explain to you the situation, that I was in the emotions that I felt during this, how I felt lost, or I felt frustrated, or I just as a mom, I just didn't know what to do. And then I was able to connect by doing X, Y, and Z. You are going, your brain is gonna go, oh, my gosh, that totally makes sense. Because I feel that way, too. And that's how that's how we do it. So Donald Miller basically came in on the we were talking about storebrand, right? Like he basically came in. And when I was reading his books, and doing some things, I'm like, this makes total sense of how we've been trying to do all of this. And he just kind of puts this system around it. So you talk about how do we do it? The Empathy is, for us, you call a spade a spade, you just, you just put it out there, right? Like, I am frustrated when this happens. We know that it can be hard to work through this, we understand that this is this issue. But like you said, you don't dwell on it. You make the statement. And then you give people's brains long enough time long enough to go, oh, yeah, that works with me, right? Like, I feel that that and then you go, Well, this is how you solve it. And here's the reasons why you can solve it this way. And then it's written in a way that that people get it. So you're absolutely right, in terms of you want to be empathetic, but you also want them to know that you know how to solve their problem. And here are the ways that you do it. So it's kind of like we have great customer service. Like you can't say that unless you can back that up and you can qualify that statement by doing X, Y and Z. And I think that's where the authority comes in. As opposed to the well, we are the best because I told you so.

Travis Albritton  15:04  
Right. And that's where testimonials and case studies and, you know, third party data, like look at our Capterra, or view score and like things like that, where you can basically point to outside indicators to say, we're pretty confident we can solve this problem. And here's some reasons why we're not just making it up. Like, here's some other things that contribute to maybe we can't we are qualified to help you. Yeah, building a story brand is probably one of the top in my top five list for most important marketing books for, like digital entrepreneurs if you're trying to sell anything online, because in addition to talking about the empathy versus authority, one of the biggest shifts that I remember the first time I read through it was going from being the hero to treating your customer, as the hero and really understanding your role in their story, or how they see themselves and how they see their life. Walk through that just really quick, like, what does that look like to not be the hero of the story, when it comes to interacting with prospects, clients, customers, that kind of thing to really help them feel like, like you are there to partner with them, to help them accomplish what they want to accomplish.

Kelly Rice  16:10  
Sure, if we jump back to like the 90s, when we were talking about like traditional marketing, and you know, early 2000s, and all of that, it was very much the we're the best here are awards, and this is why you should work with us. But the more that social media came into play, the more that we started creating communities online, as opposed to just marketing. That type of messaging just didn't sit with us well, but we as a society didn't even realize why. But it was because we were building these online digital communities, just like we would in person. So that's why that empathy and the authority is so important. And when you talk about that shift of talking about me, and how great we are, as opposed to, you know, being the hero, as opposed to the guide, you didn't even think about it, you just knew that the hero message didn't feel right anymore as a marketer, and it wasn't producing the things that you wanted to. But if you stopped and you thought about some of your best friendships, or some of the best customers that you've had, you have that, that human connection first. And you're not, it's kind of like relating back to my 16 year old story, right? Like, you're not just going to jump in and go, Oh, I fixed my son's behavior this way. No, we're going to first listen to you, you're going to be the hero, and I am going to help you solve that problem. And your life is going to be so much easier. Yeah, but it is it's a huge paradigm shift.

Travis Albritton  17:48  
Because we don't actually think that way. Like everything is seen even as marketers, entrepreneurs, business owners, everything is seen through the lens of your eyeballs, right? It's like, it's just how you naturally interact with the world. And so it's, it's natural, when you're so wrapped up in your own business. And you're so convinced that you can help people to take that stance of I'm here to rescue you. And I am the like you are here to play a role in my grand narrative. But they are looking at you like you're an idiot, like, I have my own story. I'm the main character here. I'm not like this, you know, unlisted, you know, cashier, number three in the credits of my own life, like I am the main protagonist. And so if you're coming in, and you're trying to compete with that, then now now we're at odds with each other instead of coming alongside one another. And so that's really important. But I've also seen it go so far that it becomes it becomes a new way to manipulate people on the other side of it, right? That it's not just about how do I help you but it becomes you can't actually be happy and be the full version of yourself without what I do. And so it can overstep go from helping to manipulation. And, and that's, you know, if you have integrity, not something you want your business to be associated with. And so so when you're developing copy, you're running ads, you're creating content, how do you make sure that it doesn't go so far as to really overstep the bounds of what is truly in the service of the people that you're trying to do business with?

Kelly Rice  19:25  
That is a great question. And that really is something that we deal with all the time. Because sometimes we even have clients that are like, no, no, we want to say this. And we're like, because it is that manipulation route. It's that fear tactic, the tactic, it's getting them to do something. So one of the things that we try to always stop and think about is our mission is to help people. So we want to help our customers, our clients, customers succeed. So if we have to coerce them with words to get them to do the thing we want them to do. We're not helping them. So how do we help them? And I know that's kind of a vague term. But the idea is if I put myself in their shoes, am I gonna feel not the best by listening to this? Am I going to feel like somebody's trying to twist my arm that they're using a fear tactic and my, you know, we want it we want to be empathetic in terms of, we know that this process is terrible, or you feel this way about this, or it's really hard or you have no time. But the solution has to be ethically and morally sound. It just, it all goes back to I think it was, we have something on our door that says doing the right thing is always doing the right thing. Right. So when you think about your customer first and not your bottom line, I think it becomes a lot easier to create messaging that's beneficial and not manipulative.

Travis Albritton  21:04  
Right. And, you know, I always whenever I think of like, what's a tangible example, it's like the, you know, the Mr. Clean commercials or like the breeze it's like, or even better, to Tinos, pizza rolls. It's like, if you want to be a cool mom, not just like a mom that does the bare minimum, but a cool mom, you need to have fresh pizza rolls ready when your kids get home from school. And all their friends can be like, Man, Max, your mom is the best. She's got pizza rolls. And so now the pizza roll. It's not. It's not about like, Hey, you can give this to your kid when he's hungry. But it's if you want to be a good mom, and you want to see yourself and your identity as that you have to have pizza rolls.

Kelly Rice  21:46  
Right. That's where that whole society aspect of it comes from. Right? Because if you even go back to what Dave Miller talks about, or not, Donald Miller talks about. It's the whole thrive and survive thing. So we live in, you know, first world country most of us do, right? So we are food, shelter, clothing, all of that is normally taken care of. But it's that societal aspect of how is this going to help me am I going to look better to my peers, and it's more of that cause thing. And that can be a slippery slope if you don't have your moral compass set appropriately.

Travis Albritton  22:23  
Yeah, in the first episode of this podcast, I talked about the three laws of honest marketing, which is totally something that I made up. So you know, people can can quibble with it if they want to. But one of the laws was a riff on PETA, and their stance on kind of like, what they stand for. And so it's, instead of saying, No animals were harmed in the making or testing of this product. It's like, what if our bar for our standard for how we market is no people, no humans were harmed in the marketing of this product or service? Like they always left us better than when they came to us. And I think that, if you think about it like that, it totally shifts the paradigm away from. Yeah, but if I just add this false sense of urgency or scarcity, I can improve my click through rates, or my conversion rate on this lead page, or the sales page by point 2%. And that leads to like, an extra $3 per, you know, and it can be easy to optimize your performance marketing, for that alone, and completely leave out like, what's the experience for the person even coming to your website and interacting with your company.

Kelly Rice  23:35  
Right, because we're about building relationships for our clients, because most of our clients aren't interested in just that one time interaction. And then they're done. Right? They're small businesses, their mom and pop shops there. You know, there are a lot of these people who believe in community first and people first. And building messaging around that, that supports community is important. So I would agree with that first rule of yours. Yeah.

Travis Albritton  24:07  
Yeah. Now, I want to shift a little bit because with your agency, you serve small businesses at different levels. And I think you've a really fantastic kind of like starter package for businesses that are like, Okay, we want to get really serious about our focus with online media, digital marketing, and just our presence in the space. So I'd love for you to unpack when you're working with a company. And you're like, this is a great company for our small business digital marketing package. What are the pieces that go into that? Because you've been really strategic about let's make sure that you have exactly what you need. For like the fundamentals, blocking and tackling, make sure you're set up for long term success. What are all the elements that you put into that to make sure that they can get off to a great start?

Kelly Rice  24:51  
Sure. So one of the things like you said, you know, we've been doing this a long time. So we've seen the changes in in technology algorithms and all of those things. But we've also seen the things that have remained steady, that are constant. And if you're going to play in the digital world, you have to have, you have to have a website. And it has to be strategically designed. And it has to be developed in a way that helps people make buying decisions based on where they are in their buying process. Right? So number one, they have to have a website, and it has to be strategically built in it has to be laid out in a specific manner, you have to be able to understand your audience, there's a specific way that we help people understand who their audience is. And that is the first thing that we do from a strategic perspective is understand who they are, what they need, what challenges they may have, what emotions they run into. And then we create what we call guiding statements. So these statements help content, develop social media, 32nd elevator speeches, you know, when somebody says, hey, what do you do those types of that type of language, but it also translates to the website. And again, it goes back to what we were talking about before of, you know, showing empathy before you show authority to help people start building that relationship with your company and leading them down the right manner. So identifying their audience is number one, which then goes into number two, which is a website because all of your marketing efforts are going to be pointed towards your website, no matter what you do. So that has to be built strategically. But we also know that it's the whole if you build it, they will come that doesn't work anymore, in the digital realm or with a website, right? Like, how many clients have you had, you're like, Well, I build a website, and I don't have any more clients this week. And you're like, that's not how it works. So knowing that the foundational elements have to be in there, SEO used to be really easy. You build a website, you did some things on the back end on the front end, and you were good. But not anymore. It's like this crazy spiderweb of everything that's touching, and all of that. So in those foundational packages, we make sure that we have some online directories in there, because Google likes to see that you have other citations, and everything is the same. And the same categories are across multi citations. We're also looking at making sure your Google My Business page is correct, because Google's not going away. And it's the 900 pound gorilla in the room. So you need to make sure that you're optimized for that. So people can find you on maps. And they you know, you get some credit in Google for having a specific category and all of the SEO things. But then comes content. So how are we going to be helpful to these customers, if all our clients have is a website that just, here's our website, right? So the content then comes in, and it helps build SEO for them. But it also is meant to be extremely helpful for their customers to help move them along the buying package or the buying process. So that's kind of what our foundational packages and we make everybody start there. Clients will come and say, Oh, we just build a new website. Can we start here? No. And the reason I That sounds harsh, but the reason that we say no, is that we've been down that road, and we know that you're going to waste money, and we don't want to waste your money. So we will give you our two sons will tell you exactly why we're extremely transparent and extremely open. But this is where you need to start and this is why. So that's kind of the foundational aspect of it. And then beyond that, depending on where they are in their business, if they're ready and have a little bit of budget to go after that low hanging fruit, like we talked about with Google ads and social media ads, you know, that can happen. Or if they're ready just to kind of jump in with both feet, there's that opportunity to build that lead, generating content, whatever that is, so that we can start getting email addresses and help moving people along the buying path. And it really just depends on where they are and what they want to do. But we do know that the elements that we have in those digital marketing packages are going to build a solid foundation.

Travis Albritton  29:09  
Yeah, and I think it's a key for for anyone listening to this, you know, if you're a business owner, or you're the head of the marketing of your company, or an entrepreneur, like you can't ignore the basics, like the fundamentals. They just got to be there. It's easy to get shiny object syndrome be like, Oh, well TikTok, that's gonna be the key. Right? We're gonna start just posting selfie videos of us doing, you know, duets and dancing next to, you know, other people. It's like, well, maybe today, but what about two weeks from now? You know, and how is that going to shift?

Kelly Rice  29:41  
Or if I love your website, and it only talks about how awesome you are, and I feel like I'm being sold to or I can't find the information that I need quickly. I'm just gonna get frustrated. I'm gonna go somewhere else because there is a second listing and that search engine result for something else for another company that offers the same thing that you do.

Travis Albritton  29:57  
Yep. Now when you are are getting so SEO up on like a brand new website, for instance, it takes a little bit of time for Google to actually like discover you kind of test it a little bit, see, is this actually as good as I think it is? And then gradually start ranking. And so if they're if you're just relying on organic search traffic, search engine optimization, how long do you typically expect before you start seeing results, like new leads new prospects, from any website, and then what would be the strategy for maybe supplementing that with some paid ads, as you're trying to kind of optimize and get your feet under you.

Kelly Rice  30:36  
So my answer is going to sound a little bit political, but it really depends on the space that you're in. So if you are trying to gain SEO, in a specific area that doesn't have very much competition, 90 days, you may be able to be on the first page of Google and for a specific niche market that's looking for you, you might be able to generate leads fairly quickly. But for the most part, and most of the clients, it's a good six to 12 months, before you're gonna see anything organically because you really do need to do those paid online directories in order to get your name and your category and information out there and start building some of that brand awareness in Google. And then when you're talking about Beyond Organic, we highly recommend even doing a low spend for a Google ad to get you on that front page above the maps in the search results. While you're trying to build up some of that SEO, so we least can start getting some of that brand recognition. And then again, utilizing social media to start getting your name out there, and what you're doing and all of that. But if you're strictly looking for organic, it's going to be a while.

Travis Albritton  31:51  
And that's just because it's it's a very mature medium now. Right? So like search engine optimization, like you said, it used to be very easy. You know, I remember the days when you could just put a bunch of random words in white text against a white background and trick Google into showing your website to people.

Kelly Rice  32:07  
Yeah. Here's my 600 keywords for this page.

Travis Albritton  32:10  
Yeah, just like hidden in the margins, and like point five font. Yeah, that doesn't fly anymore, right. It's a much more mature medium. And so because of that, it, patience is required. And I think something that that you do, that's, I don't want to say unique, but it's not something that is typically put at the forefront, is you talk about your flywheel approach to marketing and and how it's not just about okay, we got a week to go and like make everything happen. Talk through just like your in general the the philosophy of your approach to building a long term sustained marketing campaign, long term sustained growth, for businesses. And, and just like the mindset of that, because that can be very counterintuitive, or, or I want to say countercultural, but it's it cuts against the grain of what a lot of business owners are looking for, when they approach a marketing agency to work for them, right. They're thinking, you guys are the experts. So you're gonna be the Rainmaker, that's just gonna, like, sprinkle some magic dust on my business and take it to the moon. But it doesn't usually work that way. So So I'd love for you to just kind of like, share a little bit about your thought process and your philosophy around more of a flywheel approach, and even what that visually looks like when you communicate that to your clients.

Kelly Rice  33:29  
Yeah, so the reason that we call it a flywheel is because once you get it in motion, it stays in motion. But like you said, a lot of clients come in, they're like, oh, my gosh, we want to increase by this much in like four days. And you're like, Well, what are your foundational pieces look like? So we always have to start with those foundational pieces, which, again, are audience identification. And once that is developed, then you move onto your website. So that's step one into in the flywheel. Because once you build your strategy of knowing who you're talking to, you're going to have tweaks in that language a little bit as you move on. It's kind of like, you know, your business in year one is different than your business in year five. So you're going to you're going to tweak that a little bit, but then your website is built to do is to get people to do a specific thing. So whether it's purchase a product, download something, connect, fill out a form, whatever that main thing is, your website is strategically developed to help somebody go to the next step without feeling like you know, you're manipulating people to do that. So step one is audience identification. Step two is website because that is the foundation of all of your marketing efforts. Step three, then is your promotional aspects. Social media, Google, depending on the budget, and who you're trying to reach will affect what tactics that were utilizing. Email clearly is always good if there's an email list or working with a third party vendor that can reach. Let's say, like industrial designers or engineers specifically that maybe you can't buy a list for so that's, you know, beneficial. So you'll have email, you'll have social media. But it's not. Let's go to every social media and beyond every social media platform and do everything, because you may have zero people that would find you on TikTok. But you may have 700 people a month, that would find you on Facebook, because if you're going after the 45 to 60 year old market, they're probably not buying a lot of TikTok, but they're probably paying attention to you on Facebook. So understanding those tactics in that as long as well as Google ads, all of those types of things. So not only do we put strategy work into developing the actual audience identification and strategy, it's also where are your people playing and how do we get in front of them. So we utilize those guiding statements that we created, and like the content that's been created on the website, all of these things, and then we utilize social media to get that content out in front of people to get those messages out in front of people, because you said earlier, people are kind of adverse to, I don't want to buy right now. But I might want to look at this at 2am. So don't make me look at it at 2pm. So we try to get that content and out of front in front of people to allow them to engage with it when they want to. Because that also lessens that whole sales feel aspect to it. And then the fourth aspect of that, so we have audience identification as your first. Website development is your third. Promotional is oh, sorry, I kind of jumped the gun there. Third is content creation, which we've talked about, right. And then fourth is promotional. So once you do that, you have your website developed, you have your strategy developed, you're constantly creating content, and then you're just putting it out in front of people. And that content is leading people back to your website that is built to do the thing you want them to do next. So here's a piece of strategic content, we're putting it out there, and here we go. And then we build a lot of that evergreen content, those transitional call to actions of hey, you might not be ready to schedule a consultation with our agency. But here's a download that if you're looking to do your marketing yourself, here are the four things that you should really pay attention to do, you should really pay attention to, so that you can get your foundational pieces started. Some people will take that and they'll run with it, and they'll do really well. And then some people will go, I don't really want to do this myself. And then they will call, you know, to schedule a consultation or something like that. So that's that flywheel approach is that that content, and then putting it out where your best audiences are playing and sending everything back to your foundational aspects of it. So that was kind of long winded, but it kind of explained the flywheel process.

Travis Albritton  37:44  
Sure. Well, it's a consistent process. Right? It's something that is always ongoing. I mean, again, taking back to yesteryear and how it is used to be great and you can just do one thing at one time and just keep on paying dividends. And now, it's just not how internet works now.

Kelly Rice  38:01  
Right. And, you know, when you create some content in quarter one, and it's working really, really well as a download, and then you get into quarter four, and it's not producing. The beautiful thing about digital marketing is that you have analytics, why is it not producing? Is it specific wording? Is that the ads? Is it the environment? Is that something that has happened socially, like, what is going on? So you have the ability to look at that, revamp it and then retest it? As well, it's not going back to square one. When you talk about that flywheel approach, you've got other things that are moving while you're fixing this one little thing that may not be performing like you want it to.

Travis Albritton  38:39  
This has been phenomenal. Kelly, I've got a couple of questions before we wrap up. But first, if someone's listening to this, and they're like, Okay, I need to reach out to Kelly, figure out like, what's the next step for my business? I need to get my website redone. I need to start focusing on these core elemental pieces, like what's the, where's the best place for people to get in touch with you and to take that next step?

Kelly Rice  39:00  
Our website, treefrogmarketing.com, you can reach out to me directly. There's downloads on there, if you know somebody that's listening, they're like, oh, my gosh, I can totally do this myself. Yeah, you probably can. And there's a really good download on there. So go and download that and we can give the it'll give you the steps to start the whole flywheel process on there. So that's probably the best way to reach out.

Travis Albritton  39:22  
Perfect. And that link will be in the show notes as well. If you want to click that from inside the audio player or YouTube, you can find it there. So one question that I love to ask. Because we, you know, marketers can take themselves really seriously sometimes. What's the one of the worst pieces of marketing advice you've ever heard? Like, if you can think back to all the, I mean, certainly, there are some things that yeah, like, that's good. Okay, that could make sense. Okay. That's like literally the opposite of what you're communicating. As far as how impactful it is. Is there anything comes to your mind is like, yeah, please don't ever do that.

Kelly Rice  39:58  
I don't know if I have to think on that one, but I do have a story for you. About 12 years ago, we had a prospect come into our office and show us his new website that he built and he wanted our opinion on it, because he just wanted us to be able to market some other services for him. And he said, do you like my website that my mommy built? I hope you do. Because my mommy built it. I was like, I'm not sure you're gonna work on a client. Because I don't I can't say anything bad about your mommy's website. 

Travis Albritton  40:36 
Right.

Kelly Rice  40:37  
Awful. Gosh, I'm trying to think about some. I don't know, I can tell you one of the things that drives me crazy are people that sell monthly SEO packages, and do absolutely nothing to help a client and just sit there and just take that money because they're not doing anything differently. Once you set up your SEO, from a foundational perspective, you're just doing little tweaks here and there. There's nothing major that that is going on. I don't know. Do you have any thoughts on maybe some advice that I might have gotten? I don't know.

Travis Albritton  41:17 
Well, I mean, so one of the worst pieces of advice that I've ever seen is is, you know, always be closing. It's very famous line, right? It's like, Yeah, but then can you consistently see these consumer reports and studies that come out? Where you're tracking consumer behavior, and where they're at in the buying process? And most of the numbers that I see are like, 3% of people are in a phase of like, actively wanting to buy something? Yeah. Where it's like, I don't need a pair of Levi's right now. But in eight months, I might need some right. And so why don't why don't you speak to me at that place, and the other 97% of my life. So that's the one that I always think. It's like, no one likes being sold that way. But somehow, we can get it into our brains as marketers, that that's the way we need to sell to people.

Kelly Rice  42:01 
And that's a very good point. Because we have been told to that you need to be in front of people as much as you possibly can. And it doesn't matter if you irritate them, because if you irritate them, they probably weren't your customer in the first place. Like, that's awful advice. Because they might be one of your best customers, if you would just be quiet and listen to them instead of shoving your stuff down their throat.

Travis Albritton  42:27
Yep. And then if you could go back to day one, when you first started in marketing, knowing everything that you know now and give yourself one piece of advice to get you started, what would that piece of advice be?

Kelly Rice  42:41
I honestly think the advice I would give myself, so let me preface my answer with a story. So I grew up as a farm kid, my mom and dad provided everything that they could for us, but I also understood the value of money. You know, you had to work for your money and all of that. So when I started my own a business, I was very cognizant, on costs. And I think that I over aired on the side of being too cautious, and not understanding the value of what we could offer people as opposed to just looking at that bottom line. So if I could tell myself anything, it would be go back and price yourself based on value, not on price.

Travis Albritton  43:29 
So my number one takeaway from that conversation with Kelly is to make sure that when you're even thinking about marketing your product or service online, that you are always thinking about putting that customer first remember that that story that we were, you know, joking about it and talking about about, you know, the pizza rolls and how we can quickly go from being service oriented to manipulative of the people that we're hoping to become our clients and customers. And remember, the end of the day how we approach marketing our products and services matters, not just the bottom line of, is this optimized for a specific return on adspend or reach or whatever. But remember, there's a human being on the other side of the screen that we're trying to serve. And so make sure that whenever you're even thinking about putting together a campaign, selling anything, creating a lead magnet, whatever it is, make sure you're doing it in service of the people that you're trying to help. If you want to connect with Kelly, again, make sure you go to treefrogmarketing.com to see everything that she does for her clients. If you feel like you'd be a good fit for them, then make sure to reach out set up a consultation. They would love to serve you. And if you have just stumbled onto this episode, you can subscribe for free on Apple podcast, Spotify, YouTube to get full episodes every single week with more tactical strategies to help you grow your business without selling your soul. Thanks for listening. And as always, be honest.