The Sweary Therapist's Favorite Episode #5: Being Badass By Being Yourself

I've chosen five of my favorite episodes (out of so many!) to share with listeners. This is the fifth and final one that brought another one of my favorite people together with me to chat about how life can be for women in various professions.

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This episode, I have the pleasure of hosting one of my favorite professionals, friend and mentor, Dr. Christina Keszler. She is the Owner, and Chiropractic physician of Synergy Wellness Centers, LLC.

We have a great time sharing laughs, but also discussing serious subjects as trying to be a professional who is female in male dominated fields, how to be the best in your profession for best client/patient care, and being badass means just being your genuine self.
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Transcript

Susan: 1:34

hey, y'all it's me, The Sweary Therapist, Susan Roggendorf. I'm your host for this podcast, Fuck The Rules. Fuck the rules podcast is about folks who set out to achieve something in their lives by ditching the archaic rules and expectations that were getting in their way. Please join me as I chat up these folks to find out why and how they did it. And how you fucking can, too. Before we get to this sweary portion of our show, let's be clear about this podcast series. Fuck The Rules podcast is for information, entertainment, and personal education purposes only. Please note that you will not receive any of those lovely continuing education credits for listening to this podcast as there are no CEUs associated with this podcast series. Fuck the rules podcast is not clinical supervision, and it is absolutely not a substitute for therapy with a qualified mental health professional. Now that we've made the legal team happy, let's get crackin'.

2:25

All right. Now I can hear you really, cuz I haven't said shit. Stop reading my mind. I tell you technology. Fuck technology. That should be the next segment. All right. So you brought me to the party. What do you want? settle down. Save it for the podcast. Oh, all right. You ready? Sure. Hey, y'all welcome back to fuck the rules podcast today. I am so glad I'm lucky because one of my favorite people, one of my greatest friends, Dr. Kessler has agreed to give up part of her day to join me. And that's not an easy thing to do because she is a busy person. Dr. Kessler, how are you today? I'm under Dures. That's how I agreed to do this. fuck you. Give everybody your name, your pronouns, and what you do for a gig. My pronouns damn. We're like that. Okay. Dr. Christina Kesler. I am a chiropractor of over two decades. I hate to admit it, but it's true. I currently reside here in lovely Arizona, where you literally can cook in your car. There are videos they're. Yeah. You haven't cooked in your car yet, so that's a bonus. No, I I'm riding bike now. more like motorcycle, not like bicycle. I was gonna say, who are you? And what have you done with Dr. Kessler? Cause that bicycle that's that's rude. No, you know, what's funny is because I parked that thing right up front and my young colleague, young male colleague, they always ask him, is that yours? And I will quickly say no, he's not that cool. that's, that's my bike. So that's, that's, that's one of the things you say, fuck the rules too. I asked you here, even though you hear under duress, cuz you don't do mm-hmm, modern thingies like this. I wanted to talk to you because you are one of the people that have inspired me to do a lot of different things in my life because one, I didn't think I could. And you're the one in the background going, why the fuck not that's a direct. That is a direct quote. I was making air quotes while I did it. Bitch. Was it up? true. So, anyway, I wanted you on here, cuz I wanted to talk about all the ways you have said fuck the rules to get to doing some of the things that you've done in your life and where you see yourself going. So how old were you when you first said fuck the rules a day and a half. What did you do? I, I would not sleep the night through. I refused and the rest is history. The rest is history. Yeah. you know, it's interesting because like, even my parents kind of had this sense, you know, it's like, I'm the youngest of six and all five of my older siblings were baptized. I was not. I suspect that most of your listeners that would listen to a podcast called fuck the rules. Their head did not explode when I said that but I didn't, I, I, I was not baptized. And I asked my parents about this and they go, ah, you know, it's, it was a choice. I said, all right. So that's and oddly enough, being a religious free agent. I'm probably the most spiritual of all six, but in this way I would bring to my parents well, can I get a magazine subscription? And they said, sure, what do you want? And I said well, psychology today. And they're giving me this look, cuz I'm like 10 and, and um, sports illustrated, no, wait uh, and on that same breath I go, can I go to transcendent me meditation? And she's like what? It started early, Susan. It started very early that I just did not walk the common path. No, but you are a, you're a SoCal girl, right? yeah, insert hair flip now. No, I can't cuz it's too much the generation in my neck. yeah, we'll get to that part later. Yeah, it's fine. Yeah. so even in Southern California growing up and you say you wanna do transcendental meditation, your parents are going like, what's wrong with you? I mean, why would they think that's weird? That's California. Yeah, my mom, my mom said no, but my mom went to Catholic school and oh, that's. Probably had to do with the devil and it's, it's really not. I was exploring a lot of different things at an age where most kids are just outside playing that's right. At that time in our lives, children were outside playing well. Yeah, you're just a little bit older than I am. I'm 55. So yeah, we did. And we ran the town too, cuz that was back yeah. In the early days. And you could do. Yeah, absolutely. In fact, you're I took my son to the, to the city that I grew up and I showed him. I said, so I would walk from my house and I would cross this four lane highway to get to this Altadena dairy, to buy snacks. And I go. My parents really did consider me acceptable loss. you're probably thinking go for the sixth lane. Yeah, just run for it. You'll be fine. Don't stop for shiny bits of metal. No. So being the youngest of six and you're, you're marching definitely to your own beat and creating your own path. you become a teenager. How did it change or did it just progress this way to still, you have to figure things out for yourself and you are definitely not in the mainstream. You are not following that cultural normative that your family culture, you wanna do things that are different and unusual. So is, is that what it was like for you as a teenager too? Not so much. I mean, I, I was not really. I wasn't much of a troublemaker, I was born old, like my son born old so there was a wisdom about me and fortunately it just kind of translate as, oh yeah, she's cool. not your typical. Teenage girl. In that regard I was, quite the observer at that point. It doesn't mean that I didn't go out and smoke my weight and weed I was, I was kind of lost in my teenage years to be real honest. My parents were going through a divorce and. I went from being an honors student to just barely passing simply because I was just kind of lost at that point and then you get outta high school, then what I got outta high school and I went right into the community college, which really was just like high school, but it had Ash trays. That was the only difference. And, and I thought that I was. Going to be an art major mm-hmm And so that's how I started out. And I was still taking those psychology classes underneath those art classes, just to not alert my parents and. I found that, at that time graphic art and everything was about making a living, drawing, washing machines and such. And that didn't appeal to me. Mm-hmm my grandfather was quite a renowned artist. You can still find a lot of his artwork in Southern California. And unfortunately I was always compared there I remember vividly my grandmother's looking at one, one piece that I had drawn and had one, one awards for it. She goes, oh, art fart. That's nothing. it's like, alright, what the hell did she mean by that? It meant that it did not compare to her husband's and it's like, yeah, well, it's not supposed to, you know, but. It kind of deflated me. So then when I went to the California Institute of arts to see about going to school there, I was intimidated by the art on the wall. And all I kept hearing was her voice and my head going, you're not good enough for this one. So I, I left that and focused on alternative medications. Mm-hmm not necessarily prescribed Then Brandon showed up. And so I had to, had to change my ways just a little bit. Yeah. But you know what I can honestly say.. It did make me reevaluate what I was doing with my life at that point. Yeah. So I wanted to be someone that he could be proud of. Mm-hmm and I don't know that I made it, but, I gave it a shot. And at the time I was, I was doing computer programming. At this point, your listeners are going to say, this woman can't hold a job. You're right. I can Uh, So. I was programming and I was getting horrific migraine headaches. But at the time they decided to clear off the desk space. They would put the computer monitored down in the desk and at the time, and still at this time, it's a very male dominated industry. Mm-hmm so they put that monitor down where your average man would see it. Well, I'm not. My son would be quick to tell you I'm short and I just tell him he's freakishly tall. That's all, but, well, both are true though. I had to because I'm the outsider, but can tell you what the comparison of sizes both are true yeah. both are true. Yes. Yes. So I would spend eight hours a day looking down into this desk, and so it was giving me the. Hmm. So I went to go talk to my MD and he gave me a prescription to take it onset. And I said, well, how do you just not have onset? And he says, listen, this is how we do it. I was like, all right, well, it's a stupid answer. Yes, it is. So one of my colleagues had said, you know, there's a chiropractor street. Why don't you go try that? And I didn't know anything about chiropractic at. And so I went and I kept going, cuz he was, really nice to look at and So I was getting, I was getting my time and I was getting my neck, worked, done all at the same time. And I was complaining because I was having to pay for this out of pocket because the company insurance did not pay for this. And. I'm going like three, four times a week. And I said, this is really quite a scam you're running here. So, and about the time I'm complaining about it, it occurred to me. I'm not having the migraines anymore. I'm having headaches, but I'm having the migraines. So I'm not missing deadlines and this kind of stuff. Mm-hmm So what he had told me in the beginning is that I had a reverse curve and I said, all right, whatever. I don't know what that means. anyway, the migraines resolve. So I kept asking him questions about, well, how come you can do this without a prescription pad? And they can't, and, and he so many questions. He goes, you know what, maybe you should just go to chiropractic school. So maybe I will So thanks for the idea it was kind on a double dog dare really here. Why don't you do it if you think, you know, so damn much. I all right. and that listeners is how she makes a lot of her decisions is when she says, oh, why the fuck not? Yeah, yeah. Right. I'll do it. What's the, and you happen? Don't ever ask that. Okay. Because of, you decided that. Fuck. Why not? Because it can't be any worse than the shit you're going through right now. Right. So what, what are you really thinking though, when you, when you, when you decided to do this Well, at the time when I was programming, I was, there was limited growth in at that moment. And I did it because I had always had. That gut feeling that I wanted to be a doctor, but like in high school, my counselor said, good luck in secretarial school. Yeah. I was never encouraged to do so. So I was looking at it and I, I was working on my undergrad, which had to do with computer sciences. So I basically had to start over and my advisor. Northern Arizona university wanted me to change my mind. He did not want me to go into chiropractic. Not that he was anti chiropractic. He just wanted me to pay off my student loans. Mm-hmm and I'm gonna tell you, 20 years, later, that man was brilliant, cuz they're still there but I said, well, what do you want? And he says, well, like, like a PA or an NP. And I go, well, I'm gonna go to that much trouble. Why wouldn't I just be a doctor but, but he was right about the. Yeah. as we all find out later after we graduate, you know, The thing is when I graduated, they handed me, the fake diploma and an envelope. The envelope was already asking for alumni donations. Oh, wait. Yours did that too. I haven't even sat down. I know. And they're like, yeah, now we want some of your money that we helped you earn. Fuck you. Yeah. And that's a, they weren't even gonna gimme the diploma until I returned the gown because you know, it was a doctoral gown and it's big and heavy and expensive and mm-hmm they wanted it back and it was like, well, I could really do some cause play with this, but all right. so, but yeah, hit me up for money before I even sat down. Well, you know, the interesting is because right after I graduated, I got a call from my clinic doctor and she wanted me to talk to one of her students and I said, why? And she says, well, because she's a single parent. And I go, okay. And she says, don't, you know, and I go, no, what? And she says that you are the only single parent in your class. No I said it didn't matter. I just had to get it done. Unfortunately, I had the, the low maintenance, self raising kind of child and he, he made it easy. So I didn't really, well, I guess I don't understand What did it have to do with you being a single parent doing this? I mean, what year are we talking? Is this in the eighties? No. Um, It's, it's difficult to go to grad school as a single parent because the demands are so high. Well, that's true. when I was going through my undergrad full time was considered 12 units. And if you wanted anymore of that, you had to go get your advisors. Okay. To do. When I went to Palmer it was 30 and 32 credit hours. And I said, well, they're counting that differently, but no, I was in class 30 to 32 hours a week. And that didn't include lab time and study time. So to do that as a single parent and still meet the needs of your offspring. is not an easy thing to do, but for me it just wasn't even a consideration. but apparently it was an anomaly. And so that's why she wanted me to talk to her. And at that point I didn't even realize, I mean, there was other, there was other students in there that had families mm-hmm but their spouse was at either at home or they were working mm-hmm so. I was just flying soda. Okay. Now, for those who don't know, my listeners Palmer is a Palmer college of chiropractic. That's located in Davenport, Iowa. Palmer's one of the bigger chiropractic colleges. Yes. Palmer is the first chiropractic college. It's still considered the fountain head. It's. It's. You're Harvard of chiropractic school. It's the, the toughest to get into and, and by far the toughest to get out of. So you've got your degree from Palmer. It's the shit yeah, so don't fuck around. If you can get in there, do it. Yeah. So you, so you get your degree. Yeah. Now what, what are you thinking? What's going on for you? I wasn't gonna pull my son out of high school. So I decided to stay for a while, which is where I met you. Mm-hmm I decided to go ahead and work with the doctor that I did my preceptorship. But when my son decided he was gonna return to Arizona, I was like, well, I'm, I'm right behind you. So when I returned to Arizona because I had a certain model in mind of how I wanted to work with patients, I just opened up on my own. shortly after I opened up, I got hit. Oh, that's right. In a bad car accident. Oh yeah. That fucked you up for a while. It's still affecting you too. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. well, I meant that as in the way, you're able to practice chiropractic physically. Oh no, no, it absolutely changed everything. And then I got hit the second and third time, and then I was like, all right, where is this bull side? That's on me. Third time. I wasn't even driving. I think I remarked it the last time you got hit is, are you, are you carrying burning Sage now? Cause I'm thinking you need to carry burning Sage. No, at this point, I just go fuck it. If you hit me, make sure you kill me cuz I don't wanna recover again. No shit. Hence the motorcycle does it. You go, let's just get it over, just get it done. And over with while you've spent enough money and time in physical therapy, I can see why. So in all of this time, yeah, you've got all these rules that come up and it didn't even seem like you were actively looking to say, fuck the rules. It's just like, eh, that doesn't work for me. So you just kind of side stepped it and went to find something else that would work for you. It really wasn't a conscious fuck the rules thing. It's just like, this is what I gotta do and I'm gonna get there regardless. So it was, it was not a common path. It was not a typical path. My son would be quick to tell you I am atypical in many facets. It was just, I had to get it done. Mm-hmm and I was gonna just get it So, what are you gonna be doing now? Well, it's too late to be an Aris. It's too late to be an international Playgirl I think you're selling yourself short. I think if you fell in with the right group of people, you could be an international Playgirl. I can, but I'm gonna have to do it down in the assisted living community. you say it like, there's no benefits there. I'm thinking, there's carved out nap time with that. There's there are advantages to it. It's just I just haven't resigned to that yet. well, eventually you're gonna stop doing chiropractic cuz physically you just can't keep up with it. the clock's definitely ticking. I have a very short shelf life left on working the way that I do, I have considered returning to teaching because I did enjoy teaching at the college level. But it's hard to make what I make in the time that I put in mm-hmm and that's what makes it difficult to just kind of go, fuck it. I'm gonna go do this now. Because the bank's nice, it allows me to. Pay for a lot of ibuprofen in charge you can order it in the VA size jars. I really can. so I don't know what's next. I'm I'm weighing some different options. Have you thought about going into the spiritual aspect of things? Because ever since I've known you, you have had that component in your life to some degree. And I know that when I was last out there we took a trip to California as families. I took Seneca long and we took Brandon and we went out to Southern California after my graduation from my master's program. And. it was a really cool setting that we went to. What was the transcendental place that we went to? I can't remember the name of it. We went to the self realization fellowship just outside of Hollywood. That beautiful area. Well, it's gorgeous. It's gorgeous. Well, you still gotta pay the bills. Actually that group asked me to join the Nuy. I laughed. I said, I'm not I'm, nobody's nun. one of your monks, but I'm not gonna be your nun, you a ninja nun. And then, then we're talking. But I don't think that goes along with mission statement though. So no, I mean, you still gotta pay the bills and I don't really see me dedicating a life to spiritual pursuits. It is definitely large part of my life, but that's for personal growth. Mm-hmm so then possibly teaching then maybe, I just don't find myself being able to envision you not pursuing something intellectual because. That is one of the reasons why I think we're friends is that I've always been able to talk to you at a certain level and have someone understand me, and then also be able to gimme shit about things at an intellectual level. But I can, I can, I can read you in a very intellectual way and just kind of. Cut you with Shakespearean blades, but oh, now you're just flirting. Stop it. I know. That's, that's, it's really kind of sexy when I put it that way. I don't know. Part of me has thought about doing. Independent medical exams and doing the expert witness thing. And, but honestly, a lot of me just says, you know, Ash,, I don't know. I think I, I really just kind of need a break cuz this body's tired. catch me when I've had a nice long three year nap. well, that's a definite promise. Yeah. So now with everything coming up with like our kids' generation as millennials and the younger generation behind them, where do you see things improving for, especially women in professions like chiropractic and programming. Well, that's a great question because I have a lot of new doctors right now, and there is a huge difference between graduates simply because of gender. They graduate the same time and the male doctors come out and I try to guide them and they're like, you know what? I got. It's like, well, you don't, but alright, you, do you enjoy that malpractice suit? That's fine. My female doctors come in with a much greater wisdom in that they know that they don't know everything. And if they see me do something, they will take me inside and say, can you explain what you just did? Which is going to put them way ahead of the curve. So to your listeners, I say, seek out a female chiropractor. Because honestly they have a broader skill set to adjust. A spine is one thing to adjust. The whole entity of, the patient is another, you can make noise by adjusting vertebrae or ankles. Or as one of my young doctors like said he likes to adjust toes. I said, did they have a foot complain? No, but they like it. I go, but that doesn't mean you should well, there was consent was consent but the, the women that are coming outta school now, there's still a little raise their reserv. and I've had talks with just about every one of my new female grads and say, you need to own who you are and realize that it's still a good old boys club, but the rules are changing and you need to know what you're worth because you've got it in, in spades over these, new male doctors. Mm-hmm you are a much better doctor than any of them could ever hope to. So it's about empowering our young women to understand that they don't have to fit a role that makes society comfortable. They have all the skills and gifts to achieve whatever it is that they want to achieve. There's nothing holding them back and that is every chance I get. I tell it to my young female patients. I had a young lady telling me that she's moving to Arkansas. And I said, why I'm moving? Was it, was it a head trauma? I'm moving there with my boyfriend. And I said, well, now here's the thing. And I said, when women follow men to a location that is very foreign to you. And I said, no, don't get me wrong. I said, Arkansas is a beautiful state, but it does have some quirks to. I said it usually doesn't pan out well, but she's 19. You're not gonna tell her anything she's gonna go. And I said, all right, why so? Well, just watch out for the banjo music. And she goes, he plays the banjo. I go, oh Jesus. Oh Lord. All right, shit. So what I've always wanted to do, and, and in when I was in Seattle, I had everything in place to do. It was to form a nonprofit, to actually mentor young women and put them with women in different professions to show them that they are not. Bound by their gender as to what they can and can't do. I will be the first to say parallel parking is still not gonna be a strong suit for us, but outside of that, there's not a lot holding this back. Now. I will say in all seriousness, that's one of the reasons why I was attracted to you as someone, I wanted to be my friend, because that. Well that, and you are dead sexy, especially when you talk in your Natasha voice and you try to lead me on about wearing your full length leather duster coat. So yeah, there is that. I still have it bitch stuff flirting with me. This is a podcast episode, tWI like a Cape, but it's amazing. Oh yes. Yes. stop it. I'm getting distracted. So anyway. One of the things that attracted me to you as a friend was the fact that you do holistic approach to things. And it was never just about, okay, that you just have this symptom. So therefore we're just gonna treat that. And it wasn't just with myself when I came to see you as a client, and then we became friends, but it, with everybody that you seemed that you worked with that when we would talk, waiting for you in the waiting room of the chiropractic. About how you would take time to find out. What's going on, cuz you seem a little bit, either better or worse, you know, how's work going. how are things? And that was the first time I had actually had anyone in the medical profession, ask me what the hell else was going on in my life that might be contributing to some of the physical symptoms I was having and exacerbating some conditions I had. That's what I really liked about you. And then of course, the way you do. Just a natural way of mentoring persons. And I said before that the reason why I do have the things I do is because with you in the background and it's still to this day it's, oh, why wouldn't you do that? What's what's stopping you. And it's I should probably tell my, my own therapist about this, but it's also hearing you say in my hip, I try to give bullshit answers. Yeah. You sure. That's the answer you wanna go with? I, I still do that. I still do that, particularly with my female patients. A lot of times there's, there's Gina, they're trying to do everything, they're, they're working, they're taking care of the family, the, the kids, and everything that goes with that. And yet there's no. There's no sense of self. They kind of lose their self and all that, and their needs aren't being met. They'll tell you that they are, but they're not. And so when you start dealing with these kind of emotional issues, it's going to affect men and women, but it's going to affect women in, in the way that their hormones are balanced or IMB balance. Because you have your stress hormones, and then those hormones are triggered by other hormones. And it's a, it's a whole cascade of events that, I can go in and I can adjust your spine and we've taken care of one component, but there are literally thousands of other components that I have not addressed. Mm-hmm and I can't sit there and counsel, every one of'em, although I do have a few patients that come in and. I'm here for my therapy session, but I'd also like to get a, an adjustment. not that you're practicing outside of your scope of practice. It just, it's just part of the surface falls under either you're either a counselor or a bartender or a hairdresser or chiropractor. you know, if you're approachable and, and nonjudgmental people will come and they, and they will, they will share with you. Absolutely share a lot of things that I never thought I would hear from a patient, but I did. thank God I have a poker face, it's like, oh, okay. Mm-hmm and on the insides going, oh my God, should I know this exactly right. That happens to me in grocery stores where people start chatting with me. It's like, I don't know you. I just want to get my Oak milk and go home and have some tea. And, and the next thing I know they're talking about the vasectomy that didn't go well for their husband and how they're not. And like, whoa, whoa, whoa. I am so off the clock. I'm not even advertising. I'm a therapist. Just I'm gonna pay for my milk now. Okay, bye. By the way, check out EAP. But your work has one. Bye. I was, yes. I was judging you the whole time. but that's one of the things I like about you is the fact that you would talk about. The holistic approach to the way you do your practice. And that's actually one of the things that led me to go further into hormonal shifts and how chemistry works on our body and our brain and the neuropsychology. Of how that is all affected from, what we eat to, how we move our bodies or not move our bodies to the emotional stress of relationships. And I think that has helped me significantly improve the work that I can do with my clients, because I have to let them know that there are parts of your brain that you're trying really hard, but because of these other things going on for you, maybe working against yourself, and I just, I'm grateful that I. in your area of friendship and, and connection and relationship with you that I was able to pick up on some of that so that other people benefit from it. Right. Well, and this is, again, I would, I would share this with anybody who would listen, listen, like if you're dealing with weight issues, it really may not have anything to do with will willpower. In fact, it almost never does. And please stop shaming yourself on this because there are a lot of things at play. But then I don't also want you to jumpstart onto like, oh, well, cortisol is a stress hormone. So I'm gonna take a cortisol blocker. Well, the problem here is that cortisol is in the middle of a hormone chain and you can't jump in the middle of a story and expect a good outcome. if you feel that you're having some hormonal imbalances, please contact an endocrinologist. or maybe even like a female gynecologist or something like that. But if, if you're female and you feel that your hormones are out balance because most of ours are in one form or another, I recommend a female doctor simply because they understand what it is that you're talking about. This is not to say that there aren't good male doctors. There are excellent male doctors, but they've never been female Yeah. And adversely, when a patient talks to me about a prostate issue, I will refer them to the right doctor and say, I learned all of these exams. Certainly I can't do that exam here, but even if I could. It's not what I specialize in and I really recommend that you, you talk to your primary care and get referred if need be, to have that addressed. So, but again, that, that plays into what you just spoke about, which is, you know, what your strengths are and you know, what you don't know, and you wanna get people to the right level of treatment for them. That's absolutely correct. And, and the most important part of that statement, Susan is knowing what you don't know. Mm-hmm Like I said, my young male doctors, they come in thinking they know everything and they don't even know. They don't know yet. Yeah. At least my female doctors will say, could you show me, could you explain to me mm-hmm and they don't. So I do have one question about the graduating classes now that there is a very slow minute. Yeah. Minute acceptance of the gender spectrum. non-binary to identifying as not necessarily what you were assigned to birth. Do you see the chiropractic model? Do you see that as slowly accepting that too? Is it, or is it still very heteronormative? I don't know that I can answer that really. in my practice. It, it makes no difference to me. Mm-hmm when I was practicing in Northern Arizona, I would have gay and lesbian couples or, or individuals come in and they were very reluctant to mention this to me because of. Public reaction, especially in small towns it really doesn't matter to me as spine is a spine is a spine. It doesn't matter. Okay. Is as far as the, the chiropractic profession itself or the schools, I, I don't know that I can answer that. I've not really seen it be an. But it is still a good old boys' club. So I suspect there's still gonna be some, some prejudice there. Okay. Fair point. I hope they know. Cause I wasn't sure if you'd seen any changes that struck you as significant from what you've been through and improving upon what we've had as a model. Mostly we're the, the big change I've seen is that there is a much higher female student population. Mm-hmm which is a really good change because I would say in my class, probably less than 10% of my graduating class was female. well, that's one step in the right direction then, right. I mean, that's it, I mean, you pick your battles. There was a few lesbian couples that were very out and proud about it. I really did not witness any bias towards them from faculty or even the students themselves. Mm-hmm I don't think that was so much of an issue, but okay. Again, you know, I was busy well, there is that. Yes. There's that right? yeah. All right. So now we're down at the point where I ask my guests, if they're gonna recommend to someone or anyone or their clients, or whomever, how to fuck the rules, what would you say? Be yourself, be all right with it. Don't let somebody else define you. don't let somebody else tell you what you can and can't do. If that's a draw, if that's a, a passion of yours, then by all means, go for it. Because I don't know. I mean, I, I suspect that we have other lifetimes after this, but I, I have not received the official memo so the brochure is still in the mail, right? So don't play it safe, go and do what it is that drives your passion. and be happy with your choices. If you, if you succeed great, if you fail, then you've got another opportunity to, to learn something don't ever think of failure as, failing it. It really is just another opportunity to improve on that last attempt. Sounds good that, that, yeah, I know. Right. Come on. surprise yourself with that. Yeah. and have fun. Life's t-shirt did not be having fun. You can't be working all the time. That's true. You just working to paid bills and all that sort of stuff. Then, then what's the point. So don't forget to have fun with it. Dr. Christina Kessler, my friend, my inspiration. Thank you so much for spending time with me today to talk about this I know this is gonna hit home for a lot of my listeners. To hear someone, all three of them, all three of them. I think there might be a fourth one. It depends if Senic is working or not but I know that this is gonna be helpful for a lot of my listeners who may be struggling about whether to do the thing, if it's the right thing for them. So thank you so much for being here today. You're welcome.

Susan: 37:37

and that, as they say, is that! I appreciate you sticking around and listening. Please be sure to subscribe in order to hear more swear filled episodes. You can also find me on Instagram, under Coffelt Counseling, or The Sweary Therapist. And as you all head out, don't forget: lean into your support networks, get to a mental health professional if you're feeling overwhelmed, and as always, be kind to yourselves.