How does Easter's message interweave our daily lives? Jesus' reign is not confined to some spiritual reality. His kingship radically transforms every aspect of our existence. From personal identity to societal influence, we peel back layers of cultural misconceptions to expose a truth that emboldens us to live fearlessly within the victory of the resurrection.
We take time to especially consider the significance of words and definitions and how these can influence society to understand truth or believe lies. We live in a word-based universe. Words aren't just sounds we utter; they are the very fabric of creation. A biblical worldview brings clarity to terms that our culture wrestles with. As we reflect on the power of language, we are reminded of a call to action from Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, to revolt against the lies that threaten the flourishing of our world.
As ambassadors of Christ, we recognize our role to represent Him in every area and in every way to a seemingly foreign world, through servant leadership and rooted in truth. Celebrate with us the triumph of the resurrection and Christ's ongoing work, recognizing our part in the grand narrative that is far from over.
How does Easter's message interweave our daily lives? Jesus' reign is not confined to some spiritual reality. His kingship radically transforms every aspect of our existence. From personal identity to societal influence, we peel back layers of cultural misconceptions to expose a truth that emboldens us to live fearlessly within the victory of the resurrection.
We take time to especially consider the significance of words and definitions and how these can influence society to understand truth or believe lies. We live in a word-based universe. Words aren't just sounds we utter; they are the very fabric of creation. A biblical worldview brings clarity to terms that our culture wrestles with. As we reflect on the power of language, we are reminded of a call to action from Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, to revolt against the lies that threaten the flourishing of our world.
As ambassadors of Christ, we recognize our role to represent Him in every area and in every way to a seemingly foreign world, through servant leadership and rooted in truth. Celebrate with us the triumph of the resurrection and Christ's ongoing work, recognizing our part in the grand narrative that is far from over.
1 Corinthians, chapter 3, verse 9, says we are God's fellow workers.
Scott Allen:Another translation says we are. His co-workers and so yeah, so this is that imagery of the yolk and the dancing, and right we're working with. Him. And that gets us away from that discussion of do we bring the kingdom or do we just sit on the couch and watch TV while he brings the kingdom. No, neither of those are bright ideas. Okay, yeah.
Luke Allen:Hi, friends, happy almost Easter. Today's episode is part two of our two-part Easter series. If you have not listened to part one yet, titled the Continued Work of Christ, which came out three weeks ago, then I recommend starting with that one, as it will give you helpful context for this episode. As you guys know, here on Ideas have Consequences. We examine how our mission as Christians is to not only spread the good news, the gospel, around the world, to all the nations, but our mission also includes to be the hands and feet of God, to transform the nations to increasingly reflect the truth, goodness and beauty of God's kingdom. Tragically, the church has largely neglected this second part of her mission and today most Christians have little influence on their surrounding cultures. Join us on this podcast as we rediscover what it means for each of us to disciple the nations and to create Christ-honoring cultures that reflect the character of the living God.
Scott Allen:Welcome again, everybody to another episode of Ideas have Consequences. This is the podcast of the Disciple Nations Alliance. I'm Scott Allen and today I'm joined by, again, my friends Luke Allen, dwight Voet, tim Williams, high team.
Tim Williams:Hi, good to be here.
Scott Allen:And, yeah, good to be with you guys. It's been such a great discussion. This is part two of a two-part podcast where we're discussing Easter. We're talking about the celebration of Easter and, specifically, we're looking at what does it mean to live practically, in very practical ways, today as Christians, in light of the reality of Easter, the reality that Jesus rose from the dead and has been crowned the king, as it says in Matthew 28,. All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Jesus said that's a reality and as it says in Colossians 2, verse 15, that he's defeated Satan. Satan is a defeated enemy. He's triumphed over him through the cross. How do we live in light of those realities today we're having such a great, very practical discussion. I want to encourage you if you haven't listened to the first part of this two-part podcast on this subject, go back and listen to the first part. It'll. What we're going to share right now is going to be just kind of picking up from that. So it'll make more sense to you if you listen to part one first. But hey, it's a free country, you can do whatever you like. So I guess if you want to just listen to this one, that's okay too. So, guys, we were talking, we were getting doing a great job of getting practical with this. What does it mean to live in light of the fact that Jesus is the King and he's not just over King over some limited spiritual sphere, or he's not just King when he comes back, but he's King now, he's King overall, and what does it mean to live in light of that reality very practically in our lives today?
Scott Allen:We talked a little bit about some different views that the church has. How kind of the majority view that the church has today is a view that, yeah, jesus is risen for sure, and he is the King, but his kingdom is kind of limited in some ways to kind of the church and to heaven, and it doesn't really touch on things that go beyond that. Things like how do we live in this world, how do we think about culture and society and things like that? That's not really relevant or important and our job right now really is to just rescue people out of this fallen world and get them into heaven and kind of that's about the end of it. Maybe live the lives of personal piety to the degree that we can, but certainly we're not to be bringing the kingdom today. That would be wrong to think about, that idea that we're to be bringing the kingdom like that's no good, don't do that, don't think that way, right, that's kind of triumphalistic thought. So that's definitely what I would call the majority view, I think in the church out there today, and we'll talk a little bit about kind of a minority view that is counter to that.
Scott Allen:But rather than getting into those two views too much, we've been just talking about, hey, what does it really mean to live in light of these two realities that Jesus is the King, that his kingdom isn't just narrow and spiritual and limited, but it's everything, and that he's defeated Satan. We don't need to live in fear of Satan. We haven't talked a whole lot about that. We might want to touch more on that in this episode, but I wanted to talk, guys, if I could just start this episode with what I'm kind of working on right now, which is my book on words and the power of words.
Scott Allen:And we read in the Bible that God created the heavens and the earth through words. Right, he spoke, he spoke them into being and he created us in his image. And we use words as well, and just the power of words, and somebody reminded me of this the other day. They said we live in a word-based universe. I thought that was really powerful, that there's meaning, there's logos, there's order, there's rationality, there's the language of mathematics, there's all this meaning behind the universe. It's a word-based universe. I like that because God is Jesus, is the word? Right, he's the word.
Scott Allen:In the beginning was the word we use words. Okay, all that to say. Words are super important and God has defined things through his word. Right, he defines things, things like what is a human being? Right, there's a lot of different answers to the question what is a human being? But God actually defines that. Okay, that's his prerogative as the king. It's not open for debate or discussion. There is a answer to that question of what is a human being. He defines it and, of course, he defines what being a human is as a creature that he's made a loving God is made in his image, in his likeness, with intrinsic dignity and worth. Male and female, right, all of this, this is what it means to be a human.
Scott Allen:Of course, in our fallen world, right, in our rebellious world, people have put forward false definitions. You know, we are merely products of a purposeless process of evolution or we ourselves are God. There is no God. I'm God. I determine reality, right or whatever that false view is. So that goes for words like marriage, or words like sex, or words like justice. God defines all these in his word. Now, part of what you know, I think Christians have understood in the past, is that, because Jesus is the king and these words are his words, that shape, that should shape our lives and shape our culture in the nations for good, that we need to make sure that people all over the world have access to these true definitions. Right, everyone needs to know these true definitions. We and, by the way, we sometimes think that everyone does have access or knows these definitions, and and they don't actually. You know and I'm always reminded of our story that we tell a lot of Arturo Kuba in Guatemala and how the Pocomchi Nate, those indigenous people that he was working with they didn't actually have in their native language the word dominion.
Scott Allen:They didn't have a concept. There wasn't a space in their minds for the concept that they were to rule over creation. It didn't exist in their native tongue, and the consequence of that was that every year, rats would eat half their crop. And when Arturo asked them about that their corn crop they said well, what? What's the problem? Rats always eat our crop, right? And in fact their idea in that culture was that the rats and creation itself or whatever it is, nature has dominion over us, kind of right. That's, that's reality.
Scott Allen:So Arturo needed to say no, no, let's go back and look at this word dominion, authority that God has given you over creation. And he went back and he kind of unpacked that word dominion from Genesis, chapter one, and you could see the light come into their eyes and they go oh, I had never thought that before. That's the power of these biblical words. And I could say the same thing about the biblical word compassion. That's not a word that a lot of native, that exists in native languages around the world. We kind of get this idea of sacrificial service for the good of others, even at great expense to ourselves and even without expecting any repayment. Those ideas come from the Bible. They don't exist indigenously in our own languages.
Scott Allen:All that to say, christians understood this and they said we've got to get these powerful.
Scott Allen:Jesus's King, these are his definitions, these are the true definitions.
Scott Allen:Everyone needs to know these definitions, they need to know them. So, consequently, we've got to get the Bible into, because the Bible is God's revelation of his kingdom, of his rule and reign. You know of what it really means. We've got to get that Bible into the hands of people in their own native languages. That happened in my native language, english. What 400 years ago, 500 years, wycliffe and Tyndale translated the Bible into the English language and that changed the way people that spoke English thought in a big way. It happened with the French language and the German language and the Dutch language and then thousands of languages around the world today.
Scott Allen:But see, christians didn't stop there and say we've got to get people, we've got to get these words into. We've got to. People need to know these words, this word and these words. They need to know them. So they have to be able to read them. So we've got to teach literacy so people can read the word and access the truth and understand it for themselves.
Scott Allen:But they didn't just stop there. They said it's not enough just to have these words and to be able to read them. They've got to know them, they've got to understand them deeply. So what did they do? They set up schools. They set up universities so that people could learn deeply these concepts like dominion and love and what it means to be human and freedom.
Scott Allen:By the way, justice, all of these words are defined by the Bible in a way that people had just not literally thought of before. But they didn't stop there. Okay, it's not just enough to have schools and teach people these true definitions. We've actually got to make sure that these definitions are at the root or at the foundation of our institutions in the society. So they've got to be at the basis of our systems for education. They've got to be at this basis for our systems of law, for the basis of business. Every area has to take on these true definitions of what it means to be human, what is justice, what is love. They have to found form, the basis of that, and so they have to become institutionalized. So, like our founding fathers in the United States, one of them, you know, william Webster that was his purpose is to write that dictionary of the American language based on biblical definitions, for the very purpose of making sure that these true definitions got embedded into the institutions of this young nation.
Scott Allen:Okay, okay, that was all understood as Christian mission. That's been lost, and now we've kind of limited Christian mission, just to getting people saved. Now, don't get me wrong. There's still people that are out there translating the Bible and they're doing heroic work. Thank God for that. There's still work to be done, groups like Wycliffe Bible translators and many other good people. Literacy has become less of a concern. We're doing almost nothing in the area of schooling and education, very little, and in terms of, you know, embedding these biblical truths into institutions and societies, we've completely given up on that and rather it's just all the opposite direction.
Scott Allen:So these redefinitions, these false, counterfeit redefinitions for words like sex or marriage, they've all become institutionalized, at least in the West and our country. And then what do we do? As Christians? We just kind of absorb those right, those false redefinitions, and we're actually being discipled by them, you know, and they're shaping the way we think.
Scott Allen:So all that to say. You know part of what we do, what we should be doing right now, in light of the fact that Jesus is king. He defines reality, he defines the definitions for these words, not just for me or you or us Christians, it's for everybody and it's for our good. We've got to be getting that word out to people. They've got to be trained and taught what it means. They've got to be able to live their lives on the basis of that Tim, you were talking about that earlier in terms of parenting and family, right, which.
Scott Allen:What does that mean for me? How do I live, you know, in light of that true definition? And then it goes beyond that, guys, we've got to have the courage of our convictions and say this isn't just good for us, this is good for the world. God loves this world. This needs to be at the foundation of everything, at the foundation of how we understand our curriculum and education. Right Now, you get kind of controversial today with Christians, so that sounds like you know dominionism and Christian nationalism and you know whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Somebody's definitions are going to be at the foundation of our public school curriculum or law, or justice, right? I was just going to bring that up dad.
Luke Allen:Yeah, I'm really enjoying listening to you on this. It's like you should write a book on it, or something.
Scott Allen:I think I will.
Luke Allen:Yeah, coming out September, maybe it actually is Guys anyways, that's my.
Scott Allen:I'm sorry I went on a bit of a rant there, but I just to me. Words, this whole word angle is really. It helps me to understand. What does it mean? Because words are so basic and fundamental and there is there's, you know, words are contested right now. There's different definitions that are out there. How do we respond to that? To that, do we just say it doesn't matter? You know that doesn't matter. It's not about evangelism or attending public.
Luke Allen:You know church services doesn't matter, yeah contested's the right word there and I think a lot of Christians maybe. If you have more of a cultural relativistic worldview, you think, well, we shouldn't just go enforce our definition of words on other people. You know, it's like this tug of war, because then they're just going to enforce theirs and then we're going to enforce ours, and you know how cocky are you to think you have the best definition for these words, christian. And to respond to that I would just say, you know, back to today's discussion Jesus. Jesus is king. God created the world and everything in it. They're the ones who set the definitions and it's not just another definition, it is the definition.
Scott Allen:It's the true definition.
Luke Allen:It's good and therefore, as Christians, we're not, you know, pridefully trying to enforce our word on some announces. We're just saying no, there's an immovable definition at the root of this and that's the one we're pointing back to.
Scott Allen:And, by the way, we don't impose, christians don't impose right and this we don't impose or force, because that would violate God's principle of human freedom. Right, that's part of, and that's one of these biblical words, by the way, freedom we don't, we we offer. You know, arturo didn't impose on the Pocomchi this definition of dominion, he offered it as true and they gladly received it. Right, yeah, we're called to be you know Romans 12 too.
Luke Allen:We said all the time transformed in the renewing of our minds so that we can test and approve what's God's will as His good, pleasing and perfect will. Speaking of words, we had Jeff Myers recently on the podcast and he's a word nerd also and he was telling us about word nerd. He was telling us about the word transformed, which we use. It's in the introduction of this podcast. You know, our mission as Christians is to not only spread the gospel around the world, but it also our mission also includes to be the hands and feet of God, to transform the nations to increasingly reflect the truth, goodness and beauty of God's kingdom. That's what we're talking about today.
Luke Allen:Jeff Myers was telling us about that word transformed, which in Greek is metamorphos, which is the base word for metamorphosis, which makes sense because they sound similar, and metamorphosis is this idea of an unfolding or a transform into what something was initially meant to be all along, which I think is so cool. So when we're transformed in the renewing of our mind, we're transformed not to just see words in another definition. We're transformed to see them in the way that they were initially meant to be. So when we are, you know, back to Romans 12, to transform the renewing of our mind. We are given a way to see a word like human in the way it was initially meant to be, which is so cool and you know how we explain that around here is you're seeing that through a biblical worldview now, so you're seeing the word human through a biblical worldview.
Luke Allen:Okay, this all sounds abstract and philosophical, but when you touch it down to the ground, the word human, for example, really matters. Because if you have the wrong definition of human and you think, like today, some predominant worldview say humans are animals, then what happens with that? Well, it messes up, it's just destructive.
Dwight Vogt:It leads to abortion leads pornography.
Luke Allen:It leads to gender confusion it leads to breakdown in the family because we don't understand a word like human. Yes so that's, that's why these words really matters. It sounds kind of boring when you talk about words, but then you start realizing well, what is the definition of love? What is the definition of truth? Is truth subjective? Because if it is, that's going to change everything we're talking about here. Or if it's objective, it's going to change your life.
Scott Allen:Yeah, it's so powerful to think that the king Jesus, god, he communicated reality to us, he spoke to us. He spoke to us so that we could know it and live in it, and that's the means by which we flourish, because it's true, it's his kingdom and he revealed it to us in his, in his, in his, in his word, in the Bible, in creation itself. Right, he revealed it in different ways, but how beautiful and powerful is that. So mission of the church is really just to continue that, to, to, to, to reveal that word, to make sure that people know it and have access to it and these true definitions, if they don't exist in their native language, to introduce these new words and these new ideas compassion, love, et cetera, true justice.
Luke Allen:So Hi, friends, if you'd like to learn more about how you can disciple your family, your workplace, your school, your society or even your nation, make sure to check out our flagship online training course here at the Disciple Nations Alliance, which is called the Kingdomizer Training Program. We live in a world of poverty, corruption and injustice. We all know this isn't the way it should be and help needs to come from somewhere. But who is responsible to fight poverty and bring healing to our broken communities? The government or the church? The answer is the church, but unfortunately, we have largely neglected this responsibility here at the Disciple Nations Alliance.
Luke Allen:For the last 25 years, we have worked around the world helping Christians understand that our mission is more than saving souls for heaven. Our mission also includes being the hands and feet of God to transform the nations and bring healing and transformation to our broken communities. If you'd like to learn more about how you can play a part in God's plan for the nations, check out the Kingdomizer Training Program, and that is available at quorumdayocom. Join over a million others who have learned how to bring biblical transformation into every corner of society by signing up today at quorumdayocom. Again, that is quorumdayocom, or you can always find the link in the episode page.
Dwight Vogt:Scott, you're making me think. So I think when I listen to you, I go okay. Some would say, wow. What you're really trying to say is we should impose cultural Christianity on people or the culture of Christians on people, and that's not what you're saying. I think what's radical in this is the idea that you go back to. There's one reality yes. And there really is one understanding of that reality from the king, and the king is something and the king gets to tell us what.
Scott Allen:that is right, that's what it? Means to be the king, and so you think about.
Dwight Vogt:you know, we've all worked globally, or internationally, I think. And so if you're a Hindu, there's an understanding of what it means to be human. If you're a Buddhist, there's an understanding of what it means to be human. If you're a secularist, there's an understanding, and yet there's really only one understanding. Yeah, those are cultural understandings, but there really is only one true understanding. That's right.
Scott Allen:That's right.
Dwight Vogt:And yet we're called to celebrate culture, but we're not called to celebrate the misinformation in cultures. Because ultimately we're to bring gods the king's definition is what your whole point has been bring gods the king's definition to humankind. Yeah, I mean, one of the most contested areas in our culture right now is sex right.
Scott Allen:Did God create us male and female? Or is that merely a social construct? And there is no intrinsic meaning to male and female? You know, even our biology doesn't determine it. We do right, we can just determine these things on our own right. Okay, well, what does the king have to say about that? And if he's got something to say about that, which he does quite specifically, I mean, jesus himself said right, you know, in the gospels, you know, in the beginning, god created them male and female. He was talking about marriage and divorce. So that's what he said.
Scott Allen:Okay, and, by the way, when we live that way and we live into all of that, the reality of that, it's good, that's how we flourish. When we deny that, when we live in this false reality, it's destructive, it's not loving our neighbors, which is what the king commands us to do to love our neighbors right, to seek their blessing and their welfare and their flourishing. So what do we do? Do we just say, oh, it doesn't matter, it's a cultural, it's a political issue, I'm not gonna say anything about that. I just gotta get people, you know, saved right, no, no, okay, this is important. We have to represent the reality, the truth of these things in our culture, right, and you know, go ahead, tim. I think you were gonna say something.
Tim Williams:Yeah, as I've heard you talk throughout this session, I've thought about you know, the debate that's gone on over the past year about what is a woman. And the kinds of outcomes that have been involved in that? Are we going to base our definitions on objective, biological, anatomical reality and when we live in that reality? It's the way that God has created and designed us and it leads to personal fulfillment, and that fulfillment also leads into the development of families and new life, and or are we just gonna say we don't know what it?
Scott Allen:is or it doesn't matter whatever the culture does you know, the culture's gonna be all messed up and get worse, and so let's just hunker down, not worry about it. No, no, this is again. The question we're asking is what does it mean to live now as Christians, in light of the fact that Jesus rose from the dead? He's the king and he's Congress Satan, and I think, one of those? My simple answer to all of this is it's to represent the truth about things as basic as these words, these really not basic words, these load bearing words like sex, marriage, human justice, freedom. We have to represent the truth. There's a truth to those things and we have to represent that and we have to know it ourselves. We have to know that, we have to live that out in our own lives to the degree that we're able to, in the power of the Spirit. And then we've got to, you know, we've got to contend for that, we've got to represent that, we've got to defend that. You know, and I know right now, right, these counterfeit, these false definitions of sex, especially that one, tim, is just coming so forcefully into our culture. It's already at the basis of our public school curriculum, right, it's already embedded institutionally. That's what our kids are learning. You know this transgender ideology? Okay, it's already embedded. So what do we do there? Do we say, oh shoot, we lost.
Scott Allen:You know, I like what Alexander Solzhenitsyn said on this point. He said, you know and I'm gonna paraphrase and mess it up but he said, you know, let the lie come right. Essentially, you know, let it come. But then he goes I love this guy, but not through me, right? Okay, it's gonna come, these big lies, but I'm gonna have a personal revolution against it. You know, I am not gonna go along with that. You know I am not for the good, because I have to honor the king.
Luke Allen:He's the king and for the good of this world that he loves, yeah, all right and again we're sometimes inconsistent with this because in some issues maybe hot topic, you know, cultural issues we're consistent. We recognize Jesus's king over the womb and the unborn child and we are gonna protect that. Most Christians have a very pro-life view. But then when it comes to something like like you guys are just talking about with sex, maybe homosexuality we get all sticky on that one. Well, is Jesus really king over that area? Does his definition you know that's clearly laid out in the Bible about what marriage is really is that really the right definition? We get all sticky on it.
Tim Williams:No, jesus is the Lord of all, he really the creator? Does he make mistakes in the way he created things?
Scott Allen:Does he really have a lot to say in his word about that, or whatever it?
Luke Allen:is right yeah.
Scott Allen:Exactly, exactly. Well, because so I've taken way too much time, I wanna hear from you guys. We're back to our question of what does this mean practically for us every day?
Luke Allen:Yeah, one thing, before that, a couple times we've said, you know, because of Easter, jesus died on the cross, defeated sin, defeated Satan in reigns, victorious. Satan's still here, though I think we should still mention that real quick. Talk about that, yeah.
Scott Allen:Satan's clearly active in the world. How do we see that? How do we see that right? Yeah, it's really so important because, yeah, who wants to jump into that? Anyone wanna lead on that? Satan is he, you know he just read the verse. Colossians, chapter two, verse 15,. Satan has been defeated at the cross. But then there's verses as well to talk about. You know, your enemy, Satan is prowling around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour. So how do we make sense of these two things?
Tim Williams:As we've been talking about truth and words and things on that level. Just that he's a liar stands out to me in this part of the conversation. You know he's deceptive and wants to destroy us, oftentimes through false thinking Through lies.
Scott Allen:that's right through lies.
Luke Allen:I think of I think I mention this all the time because I love the book, but I think of screw tape letters. Right, it's the demon mentor talking to his sub demon, mentor Menti, and there's this section I forget what chapter it is, but it's talking about how the patient has just converted to Christianity, he's become a Christian, and Wormwood, the master demon, tells screw tape his Menti that, oh, you know, you would think that would be crushed because he became a Christian. But no, it's actually okay, we still have a lot of wiggle room here. Because he became a Christian but his life still looks like all the other people around him. He hasn't actually figured out how to live, you know, how to have a biblical worldview, how to recognize that Jesus is the Lord of all in all of his life. So he's had that moment of conversion, but he hasn't been sanctified fully yet, or not fully, but hasn't, you know, made much progress in the uh, in sanctification. So there's still a lot we can do.
Luke Allen:And it's just I see that so often that that behind the scenes Satan's working and he's, you know, he's, he recognizes that we don't have a um biblical worldview on things on, on things like what is a human and he can poke at that and he can say well, you've converted, but I still have, I still rule. You know, in a way, in this area, I still, I still can enforce my lies here, because I'm the king of lies. Um, yeah, so, but I do hear this sometimes who, who rules right now? Satan is the ruler of the world, right? God's a ruler of heaven. You hear that. You know, how do you?
Scott Allen:guys respond to that.
Scott Allen:No, the answer to that is no right, no, all authority in heaven and earth has been given to me. Uh, he has defeated Satan. So how do we make sense of the fact that Satan's still around, and not just around, but wreaking havoc right now? This is how I understand it, guys, and I'd love your thoughts on this. And this I think I heard from John Piper for the first time, and it just it just made so much sense to me that what the, the, the victory that Christ had on the cross over Satan, was likened to the turning point in a war. It was the key battle, the turning point in a war. Um, it wasn't the end of the war, okay, but it was the turning point in the war.
Scott Allen:You could think of the battle of Gettysburg in our American civil war, or Normandy D-Day. You know in World War II that once the allies were victorious in that pivotal battle, then the Nazis were inevitably defeated. Right, it was, they were a spent, defeated force. They weren't spent, but they were defeated, it was. It was going to be impossible for them to come back again, and so that kind of decisive battle was like the cross. Okay, now, the Nazis weren't completely defeated at D-Day, right, they just kept fighting on Um, and in some cases they even advanced right. You can think of the battle of the bold, where they just threw everything at that line and in just this kind of last ditch effort and they made, they pushed the allies way back right. They almost pushed them back to to, you know, to Antwerp, you know on the coast, but you know again, I think there there's some there.
Scott Allen:To me that's relevant, right, cause it looks like right now Satan's got some. He's pushing back right, he's gaining ground, but he's a, he's a defeated enemy. And I think this is the key point. And and we as Christians, by the way, because Jesus lives in us and Jesus has defeated Satan we don't this is key we don't need to live in fear of Satan. Okay, he doesn't have any, you know he.
Scott Allen:Jesus said, um, before he went to the cross the, the ruler of this world, is coming for me. In other words, he's coming to take me to the cross, but he has no claim on me. The world must learn that I do exactly what my father has commanded me to do. So, uh, that's true for us. I believe too, jesus, uh, that that idea that Satan has no claim on us who are in Jesus Christ, no claim. That doesn't mean he can't wreak some havoc in our own personal lives, right, um? But he ultimately is not going to have any claim on us. We are protected in God's kingdom. Nothing can snatch us away from the King, you know, being a part of his family. So, guys help. I just. You know those are some thoughts, but I'd love your thoughts. I think understanding this aspect of Satan and his rule is kind of really important, very practical. Anything else you want to share on that Cause, because I think there's a lot of confusion about that. Go ahead, dwight.
Dwight Vogt:Think of our Latin America brothers and sisters, the Pentecostals, and I think they have a better understanding of this in some respects, that that not only does Satan have any claim on us, but through Christ we have his power and we can speak and act with that power against him. Yes and um, we don't do that very well, especially as Westerners you know we're pretty feeble, but that doesn't deny the reality that it's present and that it and it is, and um, I think that's important.
Scott Allen:I think I think another thing that's really important on this point is that the Bible, the New Testament talks about Satan's great weapon over us was the fear of death, right, and that he could manipulate us and get us to do just about anything that he wanted because of this great fear that people have of dying, and that Jesus disarmed him of that because he rose from the dead, conquered the grave and then we who are in Christ will also, you know, be resurrected. We will live after death, and so we don't have to fear death, right, and that should change the way you live right now, right? I mean, satan can do all sorts of things, but ultimately he's not going to be able to. You know, we have the promise of eternal life with Jesus in heaven and he can't take that away. Tim, what are your thoughts on this issue of how do we live practically right now in light of this now but not yet issue of Satanic evil and things like that in the world? Sure?
Tim Williams:yeah, I think my thoughts really. I know you want us to go practical.
Scott Allen:I'm gonna start some Bible verses and kind of work my way down. That's okay, go where you want to go.
Tim Williams:But I think that there's just a lot of focus from believers on the fall. You know, we talked in our last episode about the cultural mandate Sometimes we call it the cultural commission this calling that God has put on our lives in Genesis, chapter 1, to rule over absolutely everything, underneath his leadership, underneath his model of the way we should be ruling, and then I just feel like all of that's lost and people just kind of focus on like, oh, and then there's the fall, and now everything's just so messed up and messed up.
Scott Allen:And then one day we'll go to heaven and I just It'll be made right again.
Tim Williams:And I appreciate Corinthians in a couple of places really emphasizes hey, remember you know that work that we were supposed to be doing, Like that's still a thing you know now in Jesus, like that hasn't gone away. Second, Corinthians 5, you know, talks about we are a new creation now in Christ, and we have been given the ministry of reconciliation, this calling to reconcile things. And 1 Corinthians, chapter 3, verse 9, says we are God's fellow workers.
Luke Allen:Another translation says we are his coworkers yeah.
Scott Allen:I love that and so yeah, so this it's that imagery of the yoke and the dancing and right we're working with him Exactly exactly, and that gets us away from that discussion of do we bring the kingdom or do we just sit on the couch and watch TV? Well, he brings the kingdom. No neither of those are bright ideas. Okay, sorry.
Tim Williams:Yeah, no, you're fine. I love the repetition and the gospels of saying the kingdom is near. Well, where is it? Well, the kingdom is where the king has authority and if you're a believer, then he should have increasing authority in your life. And you know, in your own words, scott from earlier, who do you want to lead your family? You know what do you want this to look like. You know who's leading in your finances, in your work. How do you care about your actual literal neighbors? Right?
Scott Allen:Are we not supposed to bring the kingdom in those areas Exactly?
Tim Williams:Exactly, you know, should the way that we care about the poor. You know should we be instructed in this area, should we care about fair laws for people? And even I mean harking back to what you guys were saying earlier about freedom. You know I can't say it enough, I mean, but freedom only is born from a biblical worldview.
Scott Allen:There is no other world view. It doesn't come from anywhere else.
Tim Williams:No On earth that gives that freedom for people.
Scott Allen:So and just on that. People don't get that. Let me just explain that again. Why is it that freedom only comes from a biblical worldview? Okay, because God created us in his image as free human beings. You have to have that idea for freedom to exist. If you don't, then whoever has power is going to be able to just dominate whoever doesn't, and there's nothing to stop them, right, if they can dominate them for their own advantage, sexually or politically or for any other reason, there's nothing to stop them.
Scott Allen:And that's why, in this fallen world, that's the way things go right, but the model of Jesus. But if you have this idea, that human beings all possess inherent dignity, worth and God given rights to life and liberty, then you can have freedom and you can only have it on that basis only. Sorry, Tim, I just. Sometimes we say things like yeah freedom comes from the Bible and or else, but people just need to see that I love it.
Tim Williams:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was just saying Jesus models for us this unabashed, immovable commitment to truth, and he's a servant leader at the same time. Yes, both things so amazing.
Scott Allen:And that idea of servant leadership is another idea that we're supposed to be bringing into our cultures. Right, that comes from the Bible and from the King. He modeled that.
Luke Allen:So yeah, I'm just as I'm listening to you guys. I'm remembering growing up, played basketball for 10 years growing up, and mom, all the time before I would go to a game, would remind me Luke, remember, you are an ambassador of Christ on the basketball court and I just love that terminology. You know it's political. There's a King and I am the ambassador of his kingdom. Therefore, what does ambassador do? They represent the kingdom that they are coming from to a different, to a different area.
Scott Allen:In a foreign land, in a foreign land.
Luke Allen:So I go on that basketball court and I represent Christ. What does that look like? Well, it means we pray before the game. You know, I was a team captain so I could lead that, but that it doesn't stop there. It means you don't cheat. It means you don't cuss out the other player when you're mad at him you know it means you're a servant leader.
Luke Allen:Good players are always servant leaders. That's true in almost every sport. And he's just how do you live that out? You know, and that's a recognition of who's king, who's your Excel.
Scott Allen:Yeah, super helpful in terms of just bringing this down to the practical Luke Right.
Luke Allen:Thanks, mom, yeah that has nothing to do with you know, end times eschatology, that's like.
Scott Allen:What does it mean to live on a basketball team? Yeah Right.
Luke Allen:No, it's super practical.
Scott Allen:Dwight. You've been quiet for a little while. What's going through your head?
Dwight Vogt:I think it also means, luke, that you play with excellence, because, ultimately, the game of basketball is a form of entertainment that people are watching and they want to see excellence, and so, to the degree you and your teammates can wow them with alley, oops and whatever you're actually doing kingdom play out there when you perform with excellence.
Luke Allen:And excellence also helps you win, which is nice. Well, yeah, most of the time, most of the time. Anyway, ultimately, you're there to entertain, so you know you're there to entertain, so not just what we're Dwight.
Scott Allen:You brought up excellence. What does that come?
Dwight Vogt:from in the kingdom. Where do you?
Scott Allen:get that Like that's important for us in our daily lives to to strive for excellence. Why, why did you bring?
Tim Williams:that up.
Scott Allen:Where does that come?
Dwight Vogt:from you know God who's? Well, I think it comes from. Yeah, I mean it comes from Genesis, the end of chapter one. He looked at his creation and he said this is amazingly excellent. His work was excellent, his work was excellent.
Luke Allen:Perfect.
Dwight Vogt:And so if we want to reflect the God of the universe, we do excellence. So good Dwight, in every way, good luck, high standard why not?
Scott Allen:Because you know you're right, that's, that's a really important thing.
Dwight Vogt:Yeah, I was watching a painting video the other day and the guy was teaching how to paint kitchen cabinets.
Dwight Vogt:This guy has got to be a believer. Because he was doing an instructional video with a, with a colleague there, and he was teaching the guy. But he was just so kind, but he was so excellent. I mean I thought, man, he doesn't miss a beat. It was just, I thought this is so excellent and immediately I thought he must be a follower of Christ to pursue that with that level of humility, that level of excellence. But maybe I was wrong.
Scott Allen:But I'd like to bring it to mind a book I read many years ago by a friend, oz Guinness, the call, and he talks about his great, great, you know, grandfather's way back relative in Europe who became a Christian.
Dwight Vogt:Now you're going to be.
Scott Allen:Yeah, yeah, he's going to be his name is is connected to the beer dynasty there in Ireland or wherever that excellent beer. But he became a Christian and he tells the story of how he became a Christian. That got passed down, that story, and it was. He was actually on the verge of suicide. He was in a place, really dark place in his life and very hopeless. And he was, you know, running down this road and stopped and looked out at a farmer this was, I think, in Holland plowing a field, and it was perfect.
Scott Allen:There were the rows were exquisite and these, the farm was, was beautiful. And it was this excellence idea, dwight, that this farmer had this idea that I'm here to honor the king by by by, working with excellence. And you see that on the by the way, if you've been to Europe, you still see that like that's really embedded in the culture. You see beautiful farms, they're amazing. And if you've been to other places in the world where the farms aren't that beautiful, you know what I'm talking about. And anyways, he saw that.
Scott Allen:I was at the end of the story really quick. He saw that and it just overwhelmed him with the reality of God.
Luke Allen:Yeah, wow.
Scott Allen:So that he gave his life right there on that bridge, and what was the thing that spurred it was was this farmer plowing in a field with excellence. I just thought that was very moving. Yeah go ahead, dwight yeah.
Dwight Vogt:Reminds me of a CS Lewis story where he was coming back from World War One so disillusioned and so disenchanted and almost suicidal at the depths of darkness that he'd experienced and was anti God in his thinking, anti God in his heart, and and saw the beauty of the British countries, english countryside as he went home and was overwhelmed by that beauty and thought there has to be a God. There's this. Yeah such beauty and it warmed his heart. It actually drew him back.
Scott Allen:Yeah, and we're to be creating cultures like that. That's what it means to disciple nations, that's you know that that's part of what we're here to do. In light of the fact that Jesus rose from the grave and he is now the reigning king and he's conquered evil, we are to be creating cultures that reflect the fullness of what that means, and that gets into everything from farming in a field to a basketball game. So the question I guess to our listeners today is is that your understanding Is it? Do you live that way? Do you get that? Is Jesus the king, not just in the church, but in your business, and what does that mean for your business? If he's the king in your home, in your marriage, in your, on your sports team, whatever, it is right, how does it change the way you're living right now? Are you bringing a change in culture, in the way that things are done, a change of definition?
Luke Allen:Because I think that's our calling, right, guys, and that's gonna that's, that's that, uh, let your light shine before men so that they may see good works and glorify your God in heaven. And that reminds me of just this quote. Uh, when you guys were talking about the beauty of a well plowed field, I thought of this quote by Hans Jiren von Balthazar mouthful. He says the beauty seizes you, it changes you, then it calls you and then it sends you. And I love that and it's it's. When we see beauty, it will change us and ultimately, all beauty is based in God. So when we see God, it will change us, and then it calls us and then it sends us. And as Christians, we need to live in light of God's beauty that he's shown us in creation. And that's not going to stop with us. It's other people will notice it and it will seize them, hopefully, and we'll call them and then, hopefully, it'll it'll, it'll change them and send them. So, um, do our lives reflect beauty.
Dwight Vogt:Yeah, beauty is how we celebrate beauty at Easter Right.
Scott Allen:Beauty is such a core a key facet of the kingdom.
Scott Allen:Because, um, as the, as the Psalm says, you know, jesus, god is the perfection of beauty. So wherever his kingdom is, we see beauty and we should be bringing beauty and less ugly and ugliness and hideousness. So are we doing that? Is that true in your own life, in your family and whatnot? So I think what we're pushing for here at the DNA is kind of a recovery of this, this bigger idea of Christian mission, just Christian life, um, in a way that really honors the king and brings a difference, a change in in the, in the world that we live in, um. And it doesn't mean that we do it in our own strength and we're triumphalistic, none of that. No, we're doing it to honor the king in his strength, in obedience, out of a love for our neighbor. And, yes, it may mean that in my lifetime very little headway is made. Okay, I'll leave that up to him. Right, he's gonna. You know, there's weed and there's weeds. We haven't talked about that, but that's the imagery that he gives us in this.
Scott Allen:In between time, both of those things are growing side by side. That's the world we live in. At the end of the age he's going to come back, he's going to remove those weeds, he's going to burn them up. All that wheat, that wheat. That's the work we need to be focusing on. That we're doing now remains, okay, um, what you do now matters. It matters and that's the bottom line for me guys is I want Christians to have a vision, to be active, right To see the goodness that they have and to be active with it and not be passive and not just be in this waiting mode. I just don't think that's at all honoring to the king and it's certainly hurting our society to the degree that the church does that.
Luke Allen:So and on the alternate you know the mission here isn't to usher in the kingdom. You know we can't do that. That's not in our hands what we're called to do is be faithful each day, and God will. God will do what he wills and he will return when he wants.
Scott Allen:That's right.
Luke Allen:That's not in our control.
Scott Allen:Yeah, that's right. Well, good, good discussion, guys. Happy Easter to all of you guys. I hope this has been a really helpful reflection for you on all that we have to celebrate, you know, with the fact that Jesus is ruling and reigning today as the king and has defeated the forces of darkness. And we'll complete that when he comes back again, and until then, we have work to do. Thanks for listening to another episode of Ideas have Consequences the podcast of the Disciple Nations Alliance.
Luke Allen:Happy Easter.
Scott Allen:Happy Easter.
Luke Allen:Thank you for joining us for this mini Easter series. If you're interested in the concept that my dad was sharing about about the power of biblical words like freedom, faith, marriage, truth, beauty, family or authority then you might be interested in his next book, which will be out this year. The working title for that book is 10 Words that Transform Culture, so stay tuned and we'll share more information about that as it gets closer to publication. Also, make sure to stay tuned to this podcast because next week's episode with Katie Faust is absolutely fantastic. Katie is the president of them before us, which, in its own words, tries to quote center the child in every conversation around marriage and family, including in divorce, same-sex parenting, reproductive technologies, surrogacy, adoption and cohabitation. End quote. This episode was really helpful for all of us on the recording and very eye-opening, especially on the topics of IVF and surrogacy, so I hope it's helpful for you guys as well In that episode will be out next Tuesday at 5 pm Pacific time.
Luke Allen:Ideas have Consequences is the podcast of the Disciple Nations Alliance. To learn more about our ministry, you can also find us on Instagram, facebook and YouTube or on our website, which is DiscipleNationsorg. Thanks again for joining us and have a great rest of your week.