Ideas Have Consequences
Everything that we see around us is the product of ideas, of ideologies, of worldviews. That's where everything starts. Worldviews are not all the same, and the differences matter a lot. How do you judge a tree? By its fruits. How do you judge a worldview? By its physical, tangible, observable fruit. The things it produces. Ideas that are noble and true produce beauty, abundance, and human flourishing. Poisonous ideas produce ugliness. They destroy and dehumanize. It really is that simple. Welcome to Ideas Have Consequences, the podcast of Disciple Nations Alliance, where we prepare followers of Christ to better understand the true ideas that lead to human flourishing while fighting against poisonous ideas that destroy nations. Join us, and prepare your minds for action!
Ideas Have Consequences
Special Episode: Protecting Paraguay's Laws from the West | Jazmín Ozuna
Episode Summary:
What happens when a 24-year-old lawyer becomes a legislative gatekeeper protecting her nation from harmful ideological infiltration? Jazmín Ozuna shares her remarkable journey of using a biblical worldview to analyze proposed legislation in Paraguay, revealing how subtle language changes can threaten fundamental, God-given freedoms.
This special episode comes from our recent DNA Forum in Panama. During the week, we had the opportunity to sit down with a few of the people who are championing biblical worldview training in their nations. They share powerful stories of how their mindsets have shifted and how God is working through them to be His hands and feet in discipling their countries. These conversations reveal the incredible ways God is moving around the world and inspire us to envision how He can use each of us—right where we are—to tangibly obey His Great Commission. Every one of us has a role to play in discipling our families, churches, communities, and nations!
Who is Disciple Nations Alliance (DNA)? Since 1997, DNA’s mission has been to equip followers of Jesus around the globe with a biblical worldview, empowering them to build flourishing families, communities, and nations. 👉 https://disciplenations.org/
📌 Recommended Links
👉 Course: Kingdomizer 101: Truth and Transformation
👉 Bible Study: 10 Words to Heal Our Broken World
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Hi friends, welcome back to. Ideas have Consequences. This is a special episode that we are bringing you from down in Panama City, panama, because we are at the DNA Forum this week and while we're down here, we're continuing to just have fun discussions with some of the participants down here. My name is Luke Allen. I am the producer of this show normally, but today I'm your acting host and I am joined by my colleague and co-host, tim Williams, here, who's going to introduce our guest in a second. But again, I just want to tell you guys a little bit about our week as we are down here at the DNA Panama Forum 2025. We're having a great week. We're on day two now.
Luke Allen:So far, I have just I think the talks have been my favorite part just listening to some of the speakers bring stories of what God's doing around the world and also just a lot of encouragement about what's going on in the world, the times and the seasons that we live in, times in which understanding a biblical worldview feels like it's more important than ever before, and being able to present that in a clear and concise way to the cultures that we live in is so needed and so necessary. Concise way to the cultures that we live in is so needed and so necessary. As such, I'm excited for today's little interview here with our guest, as she is playing a major role down in Paraguay in discipling her nation, so that's what we want to talk about today. Tim, I'll let you quickly introduce our guest.
Tim Williams:Yeah, thank you, luke. So today we have the privilege and pleasure of having Jazmine Osuna from Asuncion, paraguay, and we're very excited to have her. She's just 24 years old, which seems surprising for all that she has accomplished and has going on and her influence and impact by God's grace. So she came to know DNA, or ADN as we call it in the Spanish-speaking world just about six years ago and has really been encouraged by a mentor there over the years and has a profound story about how God has led her into studying both international relations and law and led her into a job opportunity where the bills are being proposed and she is researching them and reviewing them and making recommendations to judges, and God is giving her opportunities to speak to leaders who are influencing what kinds of things are coming into the nation of Paraguay. So often things are coming into these bills in subtle ways and she's able to see them and discern them and make recommendations to protect the people and to help uphold what's good for all which is living in according to a biblical worldview.
Tim Williams:The DNA is really active in this space. I mean they have a regular meeting monthly of about 40 people on a list about 15 very active and they're working in all sectors of society, so that's super important. She's also working with a very growing youth population. I know youth means kind of different ages in Latin America than it does in North America, so I don't know if that's maybe ages 15 to 25 or so. But yeah, so, hasmeen, we want to just hear from you. You can correct anything I said or add in you know what you think is really most important, and then we'll have some questions for you. But why don't you start by introducing yourself or giving us some updates or some highlights?
Jazmín Ozuna:Okay, hi, it's a pleasure for me to be here. I'm from Paraguay, as you say. You say, and I'm so excited to talking about my testimony because, in like, sometimes you don't realize how much God has worked with your life till you have to tell to somebody. Right, and it wants to, wants to make me cry, because I know that any of this will be possible without the grace of God in our life, right, and I think that what one of those moments of more grace in my life was when a pastor invited me to DNA and I was just 17 years old, almost 18 years old, and I said yes, because I always say yes to everything, and I was looking for a lot of opportunities because I used to live in a small city. So I had to travel to a meeting in the capital city in that time and I traveled and I met our mentor, luisa. She was amazing. She is an amazing girl like a mom, like a mom for us right now. So she invited me to come with Darrell Miller in that time in 2019, and the requirement was like we have to read all the book of Disciple Nations, and I was like reading so fast, like in two weeks, two weeks. I finished that book because I really wanted to go to that camp. And we went to that camp with 20 young people in Paraguay, in another city, and we were one week with Darrell Miller Like all together, we cooked together, we washed our dishes together and that was like an amazing time. But it was the first time that I started hearing about DNA, about the heart of God, about the biblical worldview, all that kind of stuff, and I was so shocked because I was, I grew up in a Christian family but I never thought that God can use to me, because I always ask God, like God, what, what are the gifts that you gave to me? Because I cannot think, I cannot, I don't know, I cannot do anything like more than other people. And Darrell Miller told us about his testimony and he was the same question to God and I was so surprised because I just was looking at all the books that he already wrote, or all the things that he already write, or all the things that he already made, and I was so surprised. I said, oh, if God use him with no talents, like he say, he can use me like with no talents, like in quote.
Jazmín Ozuna:And I was starting my career in that moment and I was in my first years of career I was starting law and international relations and for obedience to my mom, because my mom was like, talking to me about the importance of starting like that career, and God confirmed that to me Like you have to study, because I was praying. I didn't know in that time what I wanted to study. I was 17 years old, I didn't know that. And in that moment moment I started understanding why God put me there. I didn't have like the scenario of the complete view of what God will do, but I just like started understanding, like step by step, why God put me there and so I start. When I start my career, I start with DNA. So it was easier for me to understand in my first year of career that I have to use this tool that God is giving to me to serve to him.
Jazmín Ozuna:And something just to add is that last year I was no, two years ago in the education conference in Paraguay, scott Allen asked us like why did you study? And everybody was like quiet, like to have a job maybe. And he was like no, why did you study? And we were like, oh, quiet, because we know that we started to work to serve God and he was like no, just started to worship to God and all the things that I learned changed my mind. So I can understand.
Jazmín Ozuna:If I'm on my computer alone in my room just working, I worship God. I'm not doing something, not because I'm not traveling to make evangelism or that kind of stuff. It doesn't mean that I'm not worshiping God. I'm worshiping God with my computer right now, reading those proposal law that is coming to my country, and even if I have to fast, do fasting or pray before I read that proposal law, because is so much more than just a law, it's something that is spiritual, it's something that is coming against our children, our country, our families and our liberty, our freedom. So all that kind of stuff I understand in this sixth year, starting DNA and working.
Luke Allen:Well, yeah, for so many young people, we think, god, I want to be used by you, I want to do big things for you and for a lot of us, god can work through anyone, right, no matter where you are, what you do, god can work through you.
Luke Allen:But, jasmine, you are doing big things for God. You're kind of stepping in that gap of reading through these laws that are not laws yet but going to be laws reading through them and bringing your beliefs, the biblical worldview, to bear on those laws to make sure that what is being legislated in Paraguay aligns with the goodness, truth and beauty of God's kingdom. That's an incredible role. It's an important role, kind of a gatekeeper role in protecting your country and making sure that the laws there are just In your role, specifically in law there, what are some of the truths that you've learned over the past five, six years, during your time with darrow or my dad last year or two years ago, I guess that you have come to, to use, some of the most significant truths you've learned that you've come to use in your, in your workplace one of the main things that I learned is the ideas have consequences and the name of this podcast, oh, really because when I was, when I started reading this project, I realized that they don't put then like gender ideology again.
Jazmín Ozuna:Children, they never will put like that like a name, right. So I realized that they came, like they come into my country with ideas, like little ideas, for example, that they start like they won't say abortion, never they would. They would talk about abortion in my country because our constitution doesn't say abortion, like it doesn't allow abortion. So they, they use another word like sexual reproduction and health and sexual reproduction. So I realized that they can't come into my country for ideas because maybe we'll be like oh so the young people, the young women have to take care of themselves and have health and sexual reproduction. So we start using that ideas that come into our country and when come along with that word, it's not like it's not like too deep for us because we already use that words.
Jazmín Ozuna:So that's something that I learned with Biblical Cosmovision is that I don't have to adapt to myself some words that we don't use. I don't have to adapt to our culture words that you don't know the meaning. For example, gender that's another word I know. In the United States it's a really big word, but in Paraguay we're still using gender for male and female, but I know that that's not the deep meaning of gender and even if in my country it's not like gender, like it's in another country, I know that if I allow that word in my country, that can bring so many consequences in 10 years or in 20 years.
Jazmín Ozuna:So that's something that I learned like the ideas have consequence and the idea is like the word that you're adapting to yourself or, for example, the gym, like the idea of being a mom. I didn't realize that that idea was like making me feel afraid because I was reading so much twitter. And then, when I realized that I was being like, I was being like convincing, convicted I don't know, like for that kind of words, I realized that I was going to the other side, not the biblical worldview, because I was kind of how am I going to have a kid, like if I am just in 24 years? And I kind of said, and when God spoke to me that I was believing some lies, because I was adopting some words, and it shocked to me because I realized that I wasn't seeing with the Bible, god for cosmo visions, eyes. So that's a like little things, little words that are coming to our country, that are affecting, and even in the law, because in the beginning it started coming like words, like words, but then coming laws and all that kind of stuff.
Jazmín Ozuna:For example, hate speech, that's something that we use. Oh no, that's a hate speech. But when we started more the hate speech, it's again, the freedom of religious freedom Because you cannot say what the Bible says, because that's hate speech is again the freedom of um religious freedom, because you cannot say what the bible say, because that's hate speech yeah so you cannot adapt the words of the terms of outside of the word, because that can't go against your culture or your bible card yeah, yeah that's.
Luke Allen:I'm sure there's people like that, like you in my country, but I wish there was more, because, uh, so often it does start at the level of words. I like what you're saying right now. Darrow often says if you want to change a culture, you start with language, and just in my country I'm thinking of examples of how words like reproductive freedom, reproductive justice, are the same thing as abortion, but they're trying to cloak it in these nice sounding words like reproductive freedom, right or choice, both words that I love, choice and freedom great words, but they're twisting the meanings of them, they're normalizing them and then, when those words become part of law, then they become part of people's lives, they become part of people's just practices on their daily life and they're normalized.
Jazmín Ozuna:And part of the church.
Luke Allen:And part of the church exactly, and we slip so much closer to an unbiblical understanding of how we're supposed to live our lives. So I'm so glad that you're on the front lines in Paraguay with this understanding that ideas have consequences and stopping the false ideas from becoming law.
Tim Williams:It's super, super important, tim. I just want to say something from one of our sessions last night that stood out to me. I don't want to take time away from Hasmine here, but it just correlates so well. You know, one of the questions that sometimes people ask is like oh well, should the church really be involved with? You know policies and government and law? You know, isn't our focus spiritual? Of course, we know in the.
Tim Williams:DNA podcast. Right. Like that is not us. Like God is God of all, he is comprehensively God and he has put his priesthood of believers into every sector of society to serve according to principles from the Bible. But you know, one of the ideas that came up in that conversation last night from Richard Nelson was, he said, if we as the church don't respond to these social policies, these legal policies, he said they will show up in the church, but they're gonna show up in the lives of broken people who have been hurt and harmed by these policies. And how much better to begin to respond to it from the front level in terms of being able to guard and protect the people under our care. So, yeah, I just want to affirm and celebrate all of that. Yeah.
Luke Allen:Jasmine, just speaking again of some of the ideas that you've learned and you're incorporating into your life, your work or other parts of your life. What have been some of the other truths that you've learned and you're incorporating into your life, your work or other parts of your life? What have been some of the other truths that you've taken away from some of the DNA teaching that you're applying in your life?
Jazmín Ozuna:One of them was being a mom, I think, as I grew up in a big family, I always ask God, god, do you want me to have a big family? Too, Maybe Because you don't realize how much the lies come into the church till you have to like. Someone asks you like do you want to be a mom? And then you don't realize that you react like what? Like that?
Jazmín Ozuna:yeah, because you're kind of afraid, but you never think about that because you just read about that. So that's one of the main things that dna changed my mind, because I know that god wants me to be a mom. That's amazing, that's a pleasure and I really want right now. But like if you asked me four years ago if I want to I wanted to get married or if I wanted to have children, like a young mom I will be like, oh, like what?
Jazmín Ozuna:can you repeat me your question. Yeah, so, and god really worked with me in that area, because now I am ready, I'm already married, so god really healed me. So that was one of the main things that god showed me from for like in dna, in that part.
Luke Allen:Yeah, yeah, that's beautiful. I mean speaking of changing nations. Law is very important, but they do say that the hand that rocks the cradle rules the world, and it's so true is the. The blessing and the power of the mother in societies is unbelievably important.
Jazmín Ozuna:Yes, and even the marriage, because when when I was about to get married and I get engaged at 23, and people get like so afraid maybe, when I was like yes, I'm engaged, and they were like, are you sure? And one of my aunts asked me like, are you crazy? And I was like no, I'm not crazy, I'm getting married. That's something that God put like. The marriage is something that God created. And so I realized when I was engaged that people is kind of afraid of marriage and I understand that there's a lot of problems and and fight in spiritual terms. But I was engaged like one year and a half and all and all the time I was trying to respond the questions that they are, they asked me like why are you getting married?
Jazmín Ozuna:and I was like that was something that god create. It's not something that this society made create. For some reason, it's something that god create. So dna helped me a lot with that and to answer all the questions, because that was like a really difficult moment for me and the beginning with the reaction of the people interesting.
Luke Allen:Yeah, yes, were you young in your culture to get married on the younger? Side okay yeah, same same in the us. I was.
Luke Allen:I was young when I got married and my wife was younger than me and people the same reaction Good luck, it wasn't yay, congratulations, it was oh boy, good luck. And then it was the exact same when we had our kids. A lot of people were very excited for us, congratulations. But some people didn't know how to respond when you say you're pregnant this was my wife and some people, especially secular people. They almost don't want to say congratulations nowadays because a lot of people look at getting pregnant as a bad thing. And for my wife, she experienced that one time with a coworker. She said she's pregnant, expecting, congratulations, yay. But they just kind of said, okay, are you ready? Like waiting for her to respond and say what she wanted to do next, which is crazy to hear where people are coming from and the perspective that people have on something as beautiful as having children. Tim, did you have another question for Jasmine?
Tim Williams:Yeah, so you know, one of the things that I wanted to just kind of mention from our earlier conversation was you had talked about the influence of, like, the United Nations on bringing in certain things. It's so interesting, you know, they get on to Christians about our influence in places, but they're doing the same, or, shall we say, much worse really, in the way they're trying to influence things with atheistic ideas. And yeah, you were talking about the influence of even some proposals related to men.
Jazmín Ozuna:If you want to tell us a little bit about that proposals related to men, if you want to tell us a little bit about that. Yes, um, so we have a lot of influence, like international influence, that wants to come to our country and put some laws or some projects or some agreements with the government and we always have to read like five times that agreement. So that projects of law because it always have something against our constitution, for, for example, like I say, always have gender. Like we can escape from that, like in every agreement is gender. I don't know what they're obsessed with, gender, but they're obsessed with gender. And other thing that they're trying to come into now is like the climate change, because they want to go against our production, because we predict like we're a country that survived for the production of our, our people, and they want to put some love to affect that. I don't know why, but we, we can see that even to um, they say that it's better and we read this in some documents that it's better if we make the people less like decrease population for the I don't know climate change or all this kind of stuff that they talk about, and we read this in some documents that they say that it's better and that's against our. The bible. Like the bible say that we have to have a lot of children and populations, and so you have to read it like five times at least to realize how many things have against us.
Jazmín Ozuna:And I I really believe that we're in a time that we're in a war of words. Like the words can go against us, because the words can go into laws and then take our privilege or not privilege, liberty. And one of the examples that I want to give in my experience is that one of the project of law was against men and because in 2016, we have a law it's already law in Paraguay. We didn't work like that in that time and that was like a law of gender violence, putting the man less than the woman, giving some privilege to the woman just because she's a woman. And so if you and me, your team and me, go to the court and I say, like team, this and this, this against me, I have more power because just my words than your proof. So that's so dangerous, because there's a lot of fake testimonies of women doing this against their husband or their boyfriends just because they want them at the jail or they want their houses or they want their children. So last year we have a project allowed that the court have one specific place for that kind of testimonies, for that kind of issues. So we were fighting against that because that was so dangerous.
Jazmín Ozuna:I have so many brothers and I have my father, I have co-workers, men's like I have people in my church that I know that can be affected, even if I have children. I don't want them to be affected for this kind of love. That is just you. Because you're a man, you're kind of guilty. Let's go against our constitution, because in the constitution of Paraguay it says that the state has to prove the guilty of the person and this law says that the man has to prove that he's innocent. So that's the opposite. Like we cannot live that way because not because you're a man you're a guilty. Not because you're a man, you're like an angry man or like you hate women. Not just because you're a man you're a guilty. Not because you're a man, you're like an angry man or like a you hate woman. Not just because you're a man you hate woman.
Jazmín Ozuna:So we have to fight like one year for that project. Like and praise to god it didn't come into our country, but we realized that there's a lot that exists in Argentina, in Chile, in Mexico, in different places in different, because they are already working with that. So we realized that it's not something new, that just they, oh, let's make a project of this. No, they are already working in this, like more than 20 years ago, as we realized, because in Spain this law exists since 2004. That's like 20 years ago. So that's one example that making a researcher or reading like not just what says in the law, trying to read the context of the law, we realize that it's not good for our country, it's against the men.
Jazmín Ozuna:And this year we're fighting against our one project of law that is to teach to all the public and private school, to teenagers, about how toxic is the men. That's crazy, because I have my brother in the school. And what if someone came to my brother and say, oh, you're toxic because you're a man, he's a teenager. How can we like construct a good nation if, when they're teenagers, we're teaching them that they're toxic, like that's again the biblical composition?
Jazmín Ozuna:So we're living in a time that they're attacking men and their children so much and the woman is having so much privilege. And I'm a woman, I don't live. I live in so much freedom. I can feel free, living in my country, and maybe there's something that can be fixed. But, knowing the law, we already have so many laws, so many love, and so we realize that we're living in this time, that maybe satan is attacking the men so much because the man is the, the main of the family and so they're kind of it's kind of making the men afraid to be a man against of what god. So that's something that we realize with the eyes of biblical cosmobition and it helps a lot in the public space, in the politics stuff, because you can literally see, or God can show you, the problem of that.
Luke Allen:Yeah, wow, this is so interesting to listen to you. I wish we had more time, but we are running low on time. I just on this podcast. You guys have heard us all the time.
Luke Allen:Obviously the name of the podcast Ideas have Consequences and it is so true that there's no such thing as a neutral idea. And if Christians aren't promoting God's true, good and beautiful ideas in their cultures, in their schools, in their families and especially in the law what we're talking about today then someone's happily going to step in and promote their ideas, and any ideas that don't come from God are not going to bring about good, flourishing lives. So it's not a neutral battlefield, is, I guess, what I'm saying. So often in the US we hear the term Christian nationalism getting thrown around, and I understand that that's a little bit hard to define. A lot of people have different definitions of that, but some people define it as simply as if any Christian is trying to make an influence in their political realm, in the political realm, then you're out of line and you're a Christian nationalist and you're dangerous. And I would just say to that if that's your definition of Christian nationalism, then aren't we all fill-in-the-blank nationalists, whether that's your radical feminist nationalist trying to take down the toxic masculinity and the patriarchy, or whether that's your radical climate change activist, they're a nationalist as well and they're trying to get their agenda passed.
Luke Allen:Everyone has an agenda right, and there's no such thing again as neutral ideas. So if Christians are in each one of these sectors of society promoting God's ideas, someone else is going to step in. So it's just so important to hear about, it's so encouraging to hear about how you're doing that down in Paraguay, and it's so interesting to also hear how similar my nation in the United States is to Paraguay. Feminism, climate change you know, these are the exact same topics that we're dealing with up in the US. Before we wrap up, jasmine, I'd love to hear any encouragement that you have for other young believers who want to be used by God and want to play a part in fulfilling the Great Commission and discipling their nation. What advice or what encouragement would you give to someone, maybe five, ten years younger than you, who's seeking to know what they can do to play a part in fulfilling the Great Commission where God's placed them?
Jazmín Ozuna:Something that I want to give to the young people is something that a friend gave to me. He gave me the Bible verse that says be faithful in the little. He gave me the Bible verse that says be faithful in the little. So when I started with DNA and in my career, I didn't have any job, I didn't have anything. I just was living in a small city being obedient to my mom.
Jazmín Ozuna:But that Bible verse touched my heart because I was like, okay, God, if this is what I have now, so I will be faithful in this. And so I started just participating in a group of reading a book you know. And then the relationship starts and people start recommending to you and people start like so she started lost, you can talk with her. So I just was being faithful in the little that God was giving to me. So that's the best way to start, Because when you're faithful you have to be obedient with what God has given to you, Because you cannot wait a lot of time from God if you're not faithful in the little. So that's something I really want to say that if you're just starting to study or you don't know what career to choose, pray to God. He will show you as he showed me, Because I know if God makes this thing with me, he can do better things with you. So be faithful in the little.
Tim Williams:I enjoyed in our pre-interview conversation too. You just talking about how your worth and your value is not caught up in your work and vocation. Your work and vocation is a tool and an opportunity, a talent to use to apply biblical principles for God's glory and the good of the world, and so I just love that. You shared that earlier. I also want to just point out you've been using what I love, the Spanish word cosmovision.
Jazmín Ozuna:Yes.
Tim Williams:I was going to say which no, I think it's perfect, you know, and I think it translates really well. And it's kind of fun because I know Luke and so many others are so comfortable with the world, worldview but to me it can still be a little bit vague and esoteric at times. But to me it can still be a little bit vague and esoteric at times. But the cosmos, a vision, cosmovision, you know, like what is the vision that you have of? How does it all work together? How does it all come together? How do you see it? Entirely, I just think it's a wonderful word. So, anyway, I'm glad you used it and I'm glad our listeners have the opportunity to hear it and think about worldview. With just a couple different words, Jasmine, as we're wrapping up, I want to ask is there anything that maybe we didn't cover that you think it could be important or useful for others to hear about? Anything you think. I just really want to say this last thing last thing.
Jazmín Ozuna:From my experience, I don't know, but maybe sometimes we're so afraid of what God are giving in our hands because when I started this job, I was praying to God like God, what am I going to do? We're just two people doing this, and so God gave me peace and in these three years it was really I. I was having really hard moments when, when I was like god, do I have to quit? Because you never know, because sometimes god proved your faithfulness to him or your trust in him, and sometimes god always reminds me don't trust in your own understanding, because it won't be possible any of this with my own understanding. So that's a bible verse I think that it's in proverbs that god say that and one I was about to quit on sunday.
Jazmín Ozuna:I remember I was teaching to the kids of my class in the, in the church, and I was praying because I I was feeling so overwhelmed with all the project of laws I wasn't able to read all of them and make a legal opinion of all of them and it was kind of hard and I was feeling like, so like drawing, you know, water, and I was teaching to the kids and the main Bible verse was that don't trust in your own understanding. And I was like crying and the kids were like what? But I understand that the word was for the kids too, but I understand that the word was spoken to me. That don't understand in your own understanding. Trust in me because I'm with you. So that's something that I want to tell.
Luke Allen:Yeah, thanks, that's a great. That's a great place to wrap it up. It's a. I love that verse. My two-year-old son just memorized that one actually Trust in the Lord with all your heart. Lean not on your own understandings, and all your ways acknowledge him and he will make your path straight. It's a great place to wrap it up, jasmine. Thank you so much for your time.
Tim Williams:Really enjoyed this conversation.
Luke Allen:Tim it up. Jasmine, thank you so much for your time. Thank you really enjoyed this conversation. Uh, tim, thank you as well. This was fun, and thank you all for listening to another episode of ideas have consequences brought to you from down in panama.
