{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":6.859,"endTime":9.86,"body":"This podcast is intended for general"},{"startTime":6.859,"endTime":9.86,"body":"information purposes only, and does"},{"startTime":9.86,"endTime":13.1,"body":"not constitute legal advice or a"},{"startTime":9.86,"endTime":13.1,"body":"solicitation to provide legal services."},{"startTime":13.965,"endTime":16.865,"body":"The information in this podcast"},{"startTime":13.965,"endTime":16.865,"body":"is not intended to create and"},{"startTime":16.865,"endTime":19.735,"body":"receipt of it does not constitute"},{"startTime":16.865,"endTime":19.735,"body":"a lawyer client relationship."},{"startTime":20.255,"endTime":22.755,"body":"Listeners should not act upon"},{"startTime":20.255,"endTime":22.755,"body":"this information without seeking"},{"startTime":22.755,"endTime":23.895,"body":"professional legal counsel."},{"startTime":24.514,"endTime":27.254,"body":"The views and opinions expressed in"},{"startTime":24.514,"endTime":27.254,"body":"the podcast represent those of the"},{"startTime":27.254,"endTime":30.555,"body":"individual speaker only and are not"},{"startTime":27.254,"endTime":30.555,"body":"necessarily the views of Clark Hill, PLC."},{"startTime":37.564,"endTime":40.665,"body":"Welcome to the Clark Hill"},{"startTime":37.564,"endTime":40.665,"body":"Cannabis Industry Group podcast."},{"startTime":41.415,"endTime":45.355,"body":"My name is Sander Zagzebski, I'm a"},{"startTime":41.415,"endTime":45.355,"body":"corporate securities lawyer at Clark Hill"},{"startTime":45.375,"endTime":47.554,"body":"and chair of our Cannabis Industry Group."},{"startTime":48.48,"endTime":54.54,"body":"Joining me are my partner, Adam"},{"startTime":48.48,"endTime":54.54,"body":"Ansari, tax, uh, tax lawyer in Chicago."},{"startTime":55.19,"endTime":57.839,"body":"Adam handles tax planning"},{"startTime":55.19,"endTime":57.839,"body":"and tax controversy work."},{"startTime":58.305,"endTime":59.225,"body":"As well as audit work."},{"startTime":59.745,"endTime":62.435,"body":"Also joining Adam is our"},{"startTime":59.745,"endTime":62.435,"body":"good friend, James Mann."},{"startTime":63.005,"endTime":66.324,"body":"James is a tax lawyer with his"},{"startTime":63.005,"endTime":66.324,"body":"own firm, and he's one of the"},{"startTime":66.324,"endTime":68.395,"body":"nation's leading 280e experts."},{"startTime":69.505,"endTime":73.544,"body":"James is an appellate counsel in one"},{"startTime":69.505,"endTime":73.544,"body":"of the most closely watched 280e cases,"},{"startTime":73.785,"endTime":78.125,"body":"and since the conversation today is"},{"startTime":73.785,"endTime":78.125,"body":"about 280e, we invited James to join us."},{"startTime":79.195,"endTime":80.994,"body":"Thanks, Adam and James for joining us."},{"startTime":82.645,"endTime":83.495,"body":"Thanks for inviting me."},{"startTime":84.195,"endTime":84.665,"body":"Thank you."},{"startTime":85.925,"endTime":88.535,"body":"Adam, can you give us a quick overview?"},{"startTime":88.865,"endTime":90.555,"body":"Of, uh, 280E."},{"startTime":90.884,"endTime":92.055,"body":"What does it say?"},{"startTime":92.055,"endTime":92.615,"body":"What does it mean?"},{"startTime":93.425,"endTime":93.735,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":94.165,"endTime":101.745,"body":"So, 280E is a section of the Internal"},{"startTime":94.165,"endTime":101.745,"body":"Revenue Code, uh, that actually forbids,"},{"startTime":102.144,"endTime":107.254,"body":"uh, businesses from deducting otherwise"},{"startTime":102.144,"endTime":107.254,"body":"ordinary business expenses from gross"},{"startTime":107.255,"endTime":112.805,"body":"income, um, associated with the,"},{"startTime":107.255,"endTime":112.805,"body":"quote, trafficking of Schedule 1 or"},{"startTime":112.805,"endTime":117.785,"body":"Schedule 2 substances, um, as defined"},{"startTime":112.805,"endTime":117.785,"body":"under the Controlled Substances Act."},{"startTime":117.785,"endTime":118.214,"body":"All right."},{"startTime":118.335,"endTime":126.085,"body":"Uh, the IRS has applied two a DE to state"},{"startTime":118.335,"endTime":126.085,"body":"legal cannabis businesses, um, since"},{"startTime":126.235,"endTime":131.505,"body":"those businesses are technically schedule"},{"startTime":126.235,"endTime":131.505,"body":"one substances and involve schedule one"},{"startTime":131.505,"endTime":135.9,"body":"substances, uh, two a DE is actually a"},{"startTime":131.505,"endTime":135.9,"body":"throwback to the Reagan administration."},{"startTime":136.875,"endTime":139.005,"body":"Um, it originated, uh."},{"startTime":139.32,"endTime":145.17,"body":"From a 1981 court case in which a"},{"startTime":139.32,"endTime":145.17,"body":"convicted cocaine trafficker asserted"},{"startTime":145.23,"endTime":149.71,"body":"his right under federal tax law to"},{"startTime":145.23,"endTime":149.71,"body":"deduct ordinary business expenses."},{"startTime":150.209,"endTime":155.4,"body":"A year later, Congress enacts 280E"},{"startTime":150.209,"endTime":155.4,"body":"to prevent other drug traffickers"},{"startTime":155.4,"endTime":160.61,"body":"from trying to deduct ordinary"},{"startTime":155.4,"endTime":160.61,"body":"and necessary business expenses."},{"startTime":161.52,"endTime":164.765,"body":"So that's kind of the Background"},{"startTime":161.52,"endTime":164.765,"body":"of 280 and a little bit about it."},{"startTime":166.905,"endTime":171.575,"body":"So, um, Adam or James, I mean,"},{"startTime":166.905,"endTime":171.575,"body":"I, I, I'm a corporate lawyer,"},{"startTime":171.575,"endTime":173.205,"body":"so I know the basics of 280."},{"startTime":173.245,"endTime":177.685,"body":"I know that you can deduct your cost of"},{"startTime":173.245,"endTime":177.685,"body":"goods sold, but otherwise you're forbidden"},{"startTime":177.694,"endTime":179.565,"body":"from taking ordinary business expenses."},{"startTime":181.55,"endTime":185.31,"body":"Uh, are there any basic strategies"},{"startTime":181.55,"endTime":185.31,"body":"that people employ to try to,"},{"startTime":185.75,"endTime":188.25,"body":"uh, minimize their 280e exposure?"},{"startTime":188.57,"endTime":192.489,"body":"Uh, in other words, try to maximize"},{"startTime":188.57,"endTime":192.489,"body":"their ability to deduct costs of goods"},{"startTime":192.49,"endTime":196.929,"body":"sold and, and sort of minimize their"},{"startTime":192.49,"endTime":196.929,"body":"other, um, ordinary business expenses?"},{"startTime":199.249,"endTime":203.745,"body":"Well, one thing, as you just"},{"startTime":199.249,"endTime":203.745,"body":"alluded to, is maximizing The"},{"startTime":203.745,"endTime":207.515,"body":"cost of goods sold, which reduces"},{"startTime":203.745,"endTime":207.515,"body":"gross income, which reduces tax."},{"startTime":207.995,"endTime":213.995,"body":"And there are various tax counting"},{"startTime":207.995,"endTime":213.995,"body":"regs that you allocate as much"},{"startTime":214.405,"endTime":217.875,"body":"as you possibly can to the cost"},{"startTime":214.405,"endTime":217.875,"body":"of goods sold, including in some"},{"startTime":218.364,"endTime":221.034,"body":"circumstances, indirect overhead costs."},{"startTime":221.695,"endTime":223.475,"body":"So that's, that's 1 thing."},{"startTime":223.975,"endTime":229.675,"body":"Um, the 2nd thing is separating plant"},{"startTime":223.975,"endTime":229.675,"body":"touching from non plant touching entities."},{"startTime":229.685,"endTime":233.995,"body":"So you can keep as many deductions"},{"startTime":229.685,"endTime":233.995,"body":"as possible in the non plant."},{"startTime":234.385,"endTime":238.175,"body":"Touching groups, um,"},{"startTime":234.385,"endTime":238.175,"body":"Adam, what would you add?"},{"startTime":239.495,"endTime":244.224,"body":"No, I mean, I think I 100 percent"},{"startTime":239.495,"endTime":244.224,"body":"agree with those 2, those 2 ways"},{"startTime":244.225,"endTime":246.514,"body":"of kind of getting around to 80."},{"startTime":246.544,"endTime":252.164,"body":"it is trying to look at the rules"},{"startTime":246.544,"endTime":252.164,"body":"and regulations and determine"},{"startTime":252.175,"endTime":254.284,"body":"how much cost of goods sold."},{"startTime":254.284,"endTime":256.304,"body":"You can potentially add to that bucket."},{"startTime":256.594,"endTime":261.575,"body":"Um, as probably every listener"},{"startTime":256.594,"endTime":261.575,"body":"on the podcast is aware."},{"startTime":261.865,"endTime":268.195,"body":"Um, cogs aren't maybe as valuable as"},{"startTime":261.865,"endTime":268.195,"body":"ordinary business expenses because"},{"startTime":268.265,"endTime":273.724,"body":"you need the inventory of the cog"},{"startTime":268.265,"endTime":273.724,"body":"to be sold to sort of realize the,"},{"startTime":273.835,"endTime":276.465,"body":"um, the deduction, but there's."},{"startTime":277.174,"endTime":280.914,"body":"You know, beggars can't be choosers, so"},{"startTime":277.174,"endTime":280.914,"body":"if you can't have 280E, cogs are great."},{"startTime":281.375,"endTime":286.275,"body":"Um, and then I completely, I completely"},{"startTime":281.375,"endTime":286.275,"body":"agree with James there about, you know,"},{"startTime":286.275,"endTime":291.364,"body":"another great strategy is making sure"},{"startTime":286.275,"endTime":291.364,"body":"that if your business, if your cannabis"},{"startTime":291.405,"endTime":297.2,"body":"business is Doing a lot of ancillary work"},{"startTime":291.405,"endTime":297.2,"body":"that isn't necessarily plant touching,"},{"startTime":297.65,"endTime":299.91,"body":"trying to separate out these businesses."},{"startTime":299.92,"endTime":306.339,"body":"So the non plant touching business isn't"},{"startTime":299.92,"endTime":306.339,"body":"tainted by the plant touching business."},{"startTime":306.42,"endTime":310.06,"body":"And when I say tainted, I'm"},{"startTime":306.42,"endTime":310.06,"body":"really saying 280e tainted."},{"startTime":310.48,"endTime":315.46,"body":"Um, so trying to make sure you keep, you"},{"startTime":310.48,"endTime":315.46,"body":"know, separate books and records, separate"},{"startTime":315.46,"endTime":320.31,"body":"accountings, um, and really within your"},{"startTime":315.46,"endTime":320.31,"body":"organizational structure, um, setting it"},{"startTime":320.31,"endTime":323.15,"body":"up so it's different is a very wise move."},{"startTime":325.62,"endTime":326.84,"body":"Uh, yeah, I appreciate that."},{"startTime":326.84,"endTime":332.105,"body":"I mean, as a corporate lawyer, we"},{"startTime":326.84,"endTime":332.105,"body":"have created, um, Uh, corporate"},{"startTime":332.105,"endTime":335.765,"body":"structures of varying degrees of"},{"startTime":332.105,"endTime":335.765,"body":"complexity for cannabis clients."},{"startTime":336.195,"endTime":341.245,"body":"And a big motivation for that, in"},{"startTime":336.195,"endTime":341.245,"body":"most cases, is 280E and trying to"},{"startTime":341.255,"endTime":344.544,"body":"implement a 280E, uh, strategy."},{"startTime":345.045,"endTime":350.204,"body":"And I think, uh, you know, the reason"},{"startTime":345.045,"endTime":350.204,"body":"we're talking about 280E today is because,"},{"startTime":350.205,"endTime":354.424,"body":"uh, Is, um, uh, two big, big, big reasons."},{"startTime":354.424,"endTime":359.875,"body":"Actually, the 1st is obviously the"},{"startTime":354.424,"endTime":359.875,"body":"most recent announcement last week from"},{"startTime":359.905,"endTime":364.114,"body":"the Drug Enforcement Administration"},{"startTime":359.905,"endTime":364.114,"body":"that they are moving forward with the"},{"startTime":364.114,"endTime":366.265,"body":"rescheduling process that started."},{"startTime":366.575,"endTime":369.315,"body":"Eight months ago when health and"},{"startTime":366.575,"endTime":369.315,"body":"human services announced their"},{"startTime":369.315,"endTime":374.475,"body":"recommendation to reschedule marijuana"},{"startTime":369.315,"endTime":374.475,"body":"from schedule one to schedule three."},{"startTime":374.475,"endTime":378.915,"body":"So that has obvious implications on"},{"startTime":374.475,"endTime":378.915,"body":"280, which we're going to talk about."},{"startTime":379.484,"endTime":382.484,"body":"The 2nd is a few weeks prior to that."},{"startTime":383.544,"endTime":388.345,"body":"Truly, if 1 of the larger,"},{"startTime":383.544,"endTime":388.345,"body":"uh, announced that they."},{"startTime":388.69,"endTime":393.74,"body":"Had, um, applied for and obtained, uh, I"},{"startTime":388.69,"endTime":393.74,"body":"don't know if applied for is correct that"},{"startTime":393.74,"endTime":399.7,"body":"they had that they had filed amended tax"},{"startTime":393.74,"endTime":399.7,"body":"returns and and obtained tax refunds for"},{"startTime":399.77,"endTime":407.22,"body":"previously paid, uh, uh, 280 e taxes and"},{"startTime":399.77,"endTime":407.22,"body":"that certainly, uh, they didn't provide"},{"startTime":407.22,"endTime":411.179,"body":"a lot of details about it, but it got"},{"startTime":407.22,"endTime":411.179,"body":"a lot of folks talking in the industry"},{"startTime":411.459,"endTime":413.579,"body":"because the amount was substantial."},{"startTime":413.96,"endTime":415.45,"body":"And we're going to dive into."},{"startTime":415.73,"endTime":420.15,"body":"What happened and do a little reverse"},{"startTime":415.73,"endTime":420.15,"body":"engineering of, uh, what they likely"},{"startTime":420.15,"endTime":423.909,"body":"did and talk about what others"},{"startTime":420.15,"endTime":423.909,"body":"are doing, uh, doing in response."},{"startTime":424.469,"endTime":429.619,"body":"So, uh, as we dive in, by the way, I,"},{"startTime":424.469,"endTime":429.619,"body":"I, uh, forgot to mention 1 disclaimer,"},{"startTime":429.89,"endTime":431.549,"body":"uh, the stuff we're talking about here."},{"startTime":432.015,"endTime":434.164,"body":"Uh, these are just the"},{"startTime":432.015,"endTime":434.164,"body":"opinions of the panelists."},{"startTime":434.215,"endTime":438.945,"body":"They're not the opinions of Clark"},{"startTime":434.215,"endTime":438.945,"body":"Hill, uh, uh, or, or, or the"},{"startTime":438.945,"endTime":440.925,"body":"other, uh, partners of Clark Hill."},{"startTime":441.755,"endTime":444.184,"body":"Uh, we're also, this is not legal advice."},{"startTime":444.454,"endTime":446.414,"body":"We're not counsel to"},{"startTime":444.454,"endTime":446.414,"body":"people who listen to this."},{"startTime":446.605,"endTime":450.434,"body":"Uh, this is just, uh, this is"},{"startTime":446.605,"endTime":450.434,"body":"education and opinions only."},{"startTime":450.86,"endTime":454.47,"body":"Uh, we're also not providing tax,"},{"startTime":450.86,"endTime":454.47,"body":"accounting or investment advice."},{"startTime":454.87,"endTime":457.02,"body":"Uh, so, uh, listen at your own risk."},{"startTime":457.03,"endTime":460.669,"body":"But as we go forward, let's talk"},{"startTime":457.03,"endTime":460.669,"body":"about this rescheduling announcement."},{"startTime":461.07,"endTime":465.91,"body":"Uh, James, uh, James, what is the,"},{"startTime":461.07,"endTime":465.91,"body":"uh, what do you expect the timeline to"},{"startTime":465.919,"endTime":473.039,"body":"be for actually moving from this DEA"},{"startTime":465.919,"endTime":473.039,"body":"announcement to, uh, an actual rule"},{"startTime":473.039,"endTime":476.39,"body":"that goes into effect rescheduling"},{"startTime":473.039,"endTime":476.39,"body":"marijuana from one to three?"},{"startTime":478.164,"endTime":485.035,"body":"It's unclear, um, apparently the"},{"startTime":478.164,"endTime":485.035,"body":"rescheduling, uh, notice of proposed"},{"startTime":485.065,"endTime":488.135,"body":"rulemaking is under review by OMB."},{"startTime":488.135,"endTime":493.284,"body":"Now, once OMB clears it, the notice"},{"startTime":488.135,"endTime":493.284,"body":"of proposed rulemaking is issued"},{"startTime":493.544,"endTime":498.01,"body":"and would be We'll have the proposed"},{"startTime":493.544,"endTime":498.01,"body":"rule involved the rescheduling."},{"startTime":498.669,"endTime":503.729,"body":"Uh, there'll be a comment period"},{"startTime":498.669,"endTime":503.729,"body":"of 30 to 90 days, maybe 60 days."},{"startTime":504.32,"endTime":509.38,"body":"Then people who comment will"},{"startTime":504.32,"endTime":509.38,"body":"probably request a hearing before"},{"startTime":509.38,"endTime":511.13,"body":"an administrative law judge."},{"startTime":511.13,"endTime":514.12,"body":"So there'll be that hearing, the"},{"startTime":511.13,"endTime":514.12,"body":"administrative law judge will come to"},{"startTime":514.799,"endTime":517.669,"body":"her own conclusion and issue a decision."},{"startTime":518.169,"endTime":523.22,"body":"And then the administrator"},{"startTime":518.169,"endTime":523.22,"body":"of the DEA will make her own"},{"startTime":523.22,"endTime":525.0,"body":"decision and issue a decision."},{"startTime":525.029,"endTime":525.93,"body":"And that will be."},{"startTime":526.63,"endTime":532.23,"body":"Embodied in the promulgation of the final"},{"startTime":526.63,"endTime":532.23,"body":"reg, and 30 days after the promulgation of"},{"startTime":532.23,"endTime":534.77,"body":"the final reg, it will become effective."},{"startTime":534.839,"endTime":539.43,"body":"So, the total timeline, I mean,"},{"startTime":534.839,"endTime":539.43,"body":"some people say, well, gee, this"},{"startTime":539.659,"endTime":543.97,"body":"administration wants this whole thing"},{"startTime":539.659,"endTime":543.97,"body":"done and tied up before the election."},{"startTime":543.99,"endTime":548.89,"body":"That seems a bit of a reach to me,"},{"startTime":543.99,"endTime":548.89,"body":"but I don't, but no one really knows."},{"startTime":551.939,"endTime":552.88,"body":"Yeah, Adam, is that."},{"startTime":553.194,"endTime":560.595,"body":"Consistent with what, uh, what, what you"},{"startTime":553.194,"endTime":560.595,"body":"understand in terms of, yeah, yeah, I"},{"startTime":560.605,"endTime":564.425,"body":"think, you know, there's a lot of unknowns"},{"startTime":560.605,"endTime":564.425,"body":"with this potential rescheduling process."},{"startTime":564.825,"endTime":566.695,"body":"Uh, and there are."},{"startTime":567.185,"endTime":569.715,"body":"Lots of groups that are"},{"startTime":567.185,"endTime":569.715,"body":"potentially trying to oppose it."},{"startTime":569.985,"endTime":573.024,"body":"Uh, so I think we just"},{"startTime":569.985,"endTime":573.024,"body":"kind of wait and see here."},{"startTime":574.915,"endTime":577.425,"body":"So, I mean, 1 thing I think, uh."},{"startTime":578.055,"endTime":582.005,"body":"We may have glossed over, but as,"},{"startTime":578.055,"endTime":582.005,"body":"as I understand it, like, what do"},{"startTime":582.005,"endTime":583.245,"body":"you do to correct me if I'm wrong?"},{"startTime":583.245,"endTime":587.255,"body":"But the reason the reason"},{"startTime":583.245,"endTime":587.255,"body":"rescheduling is such a such a"},{"startTime":587.265,"endTime":593.264,"body":"significant event is that under 280"},{"startTime":587.265,"endTime":593.264,"body":"E drug trafficking is defined as."},{"startTime":593.67,"endTime":596.609,"body":"Trafficking and substances that"},{"startTime":593.67,"endTime":596.609,"body":"are on schedule 1 or schedule 2."},{"startTime":597.249,"endTime":602.63,"body":"So if marijuana drops to schedule"},{"startTime":597.249,"endTime":602.63,"body":"3, then 280E by its terms no longer"},{"startTime":602.63,"endTime":604.599,"body":"applies to cannabis companies."},{"startTime":604.599,"endTime":607.81,"body":"Is that, is that a correct"},{"startTime":604.599,"endTime":607.81,"body":"way to understand it?"},{"startTime":609.419,"endTime":615.329,"body":"Yeah, sure, I mean, the, That's"},{"startTime":609.419,"endTime":615.329,"body":"exactly my understanding of this."},{"startTime":615.329,"endTime":621.31,"body":"I mean, the big benefit is going to"},{"startTime":615.329,"endTime":621.31,"body":"be that 280E, the ordinary business"},{"startTime":621.369,"endTime":626.309,"body":"deductions kind of goes out the window"},{"startTime":621.369,"endTime":626.309,"body":"and all of our, everybody's thoughts"},{"startTime":626.309,"endTime":629.369,"body":"on COGS being the best way forward."},{"startTime":630.119,"endTime":632.719,"body":"We don't necessarily have"},{"startTime":630.119,"endTime":632.719,"body":"to deal with that anymore."},{"startTime":632.729,"endTime":636.849,"body":"I mean, cannabis businesses can"},{"startTime":632.729,"endTime":636.849,"body":"treat their expenses similar to"},{"startTime":636.849,"endTime":638.839,"body":"a bar buying plates and alcohol."},{"startTime":641.8,"endTime":649.119,"body":"So, and 1 important point here is that"},{"startTime":641.8,"endTime":649.119,"body":"2 80 will cease to apply only at the"},{"startTime":649.119,"endTime":652.409,"body":"time that the final rank becomes fact."},{"startTime":652.75,"endTime":657.239,"body":"So cannabis goes from schedule"},{"startTime":652.75,"endTime":657.239,"body":"1 to schedule 3 until then."},{"startTime":658.589,"endTime":664.25,"body":"You have to 80 in operation, so 2"},{"startTime":658.589,"endTime":664.25,"body":"80 is clearly going to apply to 2023"},{"startTime":664.26,"endTime":668.249,"body":"and probably all 2024 tax returns."},{"startTime":669.349,"endTime":674.81,"body":"So, 1 question sort of, I have"},{"startTime":669.349,"endTime":674.81,"body":"for for James, you know, my"},{"startTime":674.879,"endTime":681.43,"body":"understanding with potentially the"},{"startTime":674.879,"endTime":681.43,"body":"rescheduling is that it may not do"},{"startTime":681.43,"endTime":683.319,"body":"anything for the banking industry."},{"startTime":683.369,"endTime":688.39,"body":"So, um, marijuana companies may"},{"startTime":683.369,"endTime":688.39,"body":"not be able to get, uh, I mean,"},{"startTime":688.52,"endTime":693.87,"body":"really, banking institutions may"},{"startTime":688.52,"endTime":693.87,"body":"not see any sort of difference."},{"startTime":694.29,"endTime":699.52,"body":"And I know that that Safe Banking"},{"startTime":694.29,"endTime":699.52,"body":"Act has, uh, went through the House,"},{"startTime":699.619,"endTime":702.839,"body":"installed in the Senate, and that's"},{"startTime":699.619,"endTime":702.839,"body":"what was potentially going to get"},{"startTime":702.92,"endTime":704.889,"body":"cannabis into the banking system."},{"startTime":706.069,"endTime":710.639,"body":"Do you have any opinion about whether"},{"startTime":706.069,"endTime":710.639,"body":"banks are going to change their"},{"startTime":710.639,"endTime":712.079,"body":"philosophy on cannabis companies?"},{"startTime":713.31,"endTime":719.23,"body":"If I think that changing from schedule"},{"startTime":713.31,"endTime":719.23,"body":"1 to schedule 3 doesn't change."},{"startTime":719.739,"endTime":723.16,"body":"Anything in defense, send guidance"},{"startTime":719.739,"endTime":723.16,"body":"to banks and now and banks have"},{"startTime":723.16,"endTime":728.49,"body":"a lot of compliance burdens that"},{"startTime":723.16,"endTime":728.49,"body":"bank, uh, cannabis customers."},{"startTime":729.78,"endTime":733.79,"body":"It may make an attitudinal"},{"startTime":729.78,"endTime":733.79,"body":"difference on the part of banks."},{"startTime":734.209,"endTime":740.24,"body":"Um, the other thing is people talk"},{"startTime":734.209,"endTime":740.24,"body":"about uplisting and the, for example,"},{"startTime":740.29,"endTime":745.879,"body":"on NASDAQ and NASDAQ, it's just a"},{"startTime":740.29,"endTime":745.879,"body":"self imposed rule that it won't list"},{"startTime":745.879,"endTime":749.059,"body":"canvas companies because they're"},{"startTime":745.879,"endTime":749.059,"body":"engaged in federally illegal activity."},{"startTime":749.319,"endTime":751.68,"body":"It'll still be a federally"},{"startTime":749.319,"endTime":751.68,"body":"illegal activity."},{"startTime":752.26,"endTime":756.86,"body":"It goes from schedule 1 to schedule"},{"startTime":752.26,"endTime":756.86,"body":"through schedule 3, but NASDAQ"},{"startTime":756.86,"endTime":758.23,"body":"is free to change its mind."},{"startTime":758.24,"endTime":762.34,"body":"There's no statute that keeps"},{"startTime":758.24,"endTime":762.34,"body":"NASDAQ or any other exchange"},{"startTime":762.36,"endTime":764.3,"body":"from listing these companies."},{"startTime":764.3,"endTime":765.139,"body":"As far as I know."},{"startTime":766.86,"endTime":769.519,"body":"Yeah, I, I think you're, you're,"},{"startTime":766.86,"endTime":769.519,"body":"you're, you know, being the"},{"startTime":770.089,"endTime":771.339,"body":"securities lawyer on the call."},{"startTime":771.339,"endTime":772.509,"body":"I agree with you there, James."},{"startTime":772.509,"endTime":776.765,"body":"I mean, the, the, the interesting"},{"startTime":772.509,"endTime":776.765,"body":"part about capital markets is"},{"startTime":776.765,"endTime":783.059,"body":"that for cannabis companies, uh,"},{"startTime":776.765,"endTime":783.059,"body":"there's this incorrect, um, view."},{"startTime":783.45,"endTime":787.79,"body":"That the federal securities laws prohibit,"},{"startTime":783.45,"endTime":787.79,"body":"uh, listing of cannabis companies."},{"startTime":787.8,"endTime":792.689,"body":"The reason cannabis companies don't"},{"startTime":787.8,"endTime":792.689,"body":"trade on, uh, cannabis companies with U."},{"startTime":792.69,"endTime":792.9,"body":"S."},{"startTime":792.9,"endTime":796.56,"body":"operations don't trade on NASDAQ or"},{"startTime":792.9,"endTime":796.56,"body":"the New York Stock Exchange is because"},{"startTime":796.58,"endTime":798.4,"body":"NASDAQ in the New York Stock Exchange."},{"startTime":799.375,"endTime":802.405,"body":"Using their discretion, choose"},{"startTime":799.375,"endTime":802.405,"body":"not to list those companies."},{"startTime":802.405,"endTime":807.145,"body":"And it also, there are also a lot of"},{"startTime":802.405,"endTime":807.145,"body":"players in the wall street system."},{"startTime":807.525,"endTime":812.874,"body":"Uh, the broker dealers, the,"},{"startTime":807.525,"endTime":812.874,"body":"the, the, the custodians, uh, the"},{"startTime":813.145,"endTime":816.335,"body":"depository trust corporation, seating"},{"startTime":813.145,"endTime":816.335,"body":"company, the folks that actually,"},{"startTime":816.785,"endTime":821.575,"body":"that actually, uh, affect the trades"},{"startTime":816.785,"endTime":821.575,"body":"and, and insurers, things like that."},{"startTime":821.585,"endTime":822.425,"body":"Those folks."},{"startTime":822.8,"endTime":827.04,"body":"Um, all of those folks need to be"},{"startTime":822.8,"endTime":827.04,"body":"comfortable that they're, you know,"},{"startTime":827.05,"endTime":831.659,"body":"that they can touch a cannabis stock,"},{"startTime":827.05,"endTime":831.659,"body":"uh, before, before capital markets"},{"startTime":831.659,"endTime":832.969,"body":"will open up in the United States."},{"startTime":832.969,"endTime":837.67,"body":"And frankly, there isn't a law,"},{"startTime":832.969,"endTime":837.67,"body":"uh, absent, uh, completely,"},{"startTime":837.979,"endTime":841.92,"body":"um, removing marijuana from the"},{"startTime":837.979,"endTime":841.92,"body":"Controlled Substances Act altogether."},{"startTime":842.369,"endTime":848.359,"body":"I don't see a law that's going"},{"startTime":842.369,"endTime":848.359,"body":"to force them to to list, uh, U."},{"startTime":848.359,"endTime":848.699,"body":"S."},{"startTime":848.819,"endTime":850.259,"body":"plant touching cannabis companies."},{"startTime":850.259,"endTime":851.199,"body":"In fact, a lot."},{"startTime":851.199,"endTime":852.17,"body":"I'm pretty familiar with."},{"startTime":852.219,"endTime":855.27,"body":"Uh, the climb act was introduced in."},{"startTime":855.299,"endTime":861.529,"body":"I believe it was, uh, 2022, uh, by,"},{"startTime":855.299,"endTime":861.529,"body":"uh, uh, Congressman Troy Carter."},{"startTime":862.02,"endTime":866.639,"body":"And that had language that would have,"},{"startTime":862.02,"endTime":866.639,"body":"um, uh, uh, given some comfort to,"},{"startTime":867.199,"endTime":872.09,"body":"to, uh, uh, the market participants to"},{"startTime":867.199,"endTime":872.09,"body":"list cannabis companies, allow broker"},{"startTime":872.09,"endTime":876.529,"body":"dealers to trade in cannabis stocks,"},{"startTime":872.09,"endTime":876.529,"body":"allow the custodians to take custody of"},{"startTime":876.529,"endTime":877.899,"body":"cannabis securities, things like that."},{"startTime":878.279,"endTime":882.619,"body":"But absent that, I don't think, uh,"},{"startTime":878.279,"endTime":882.619,"body":"I don't think schedule 1 to schedule"},{"startTime":882.619,"endTime":884.149,"body":"3 is going to have any impact."},{"startTime":884.444,"endTime":887.814,"body":"Certainly not in the near term,"},{"startTime":884.444,"endTime":887.814,"body":"uh, on on capital markets."},{"startTime":888.355,"endTime":894.135,"body":"But 1 question for you guys is, um,"},{"startTime":888.355,"endTime":894.135,"body":"I've heard, uh, you know, we've been"},{"startTime":894.135,"endTime":897.685,"body":"talking about rescheduling now again"},{"startTime":894.135,"endTime":897.685,"body":"for, for 8 months, because health and"},{"startTime":897.694,"endTime":901.335,"body":"human services made their announcement"},{"startTime":897.694,"endTime":901.335,"body":"back in September and I had heard, uh."},{"startTime":901.555,"endTime":907.755,"body":"Folks speculate that, uh, the IRS"},{"startTime":901.555,"endTime":907.755,"body":"would allow cannabis companies to,"},{"startTime":907.775,"endTime":913.235,"body":"um, they would provide 280e relief"},{"startTime":907.775,"endTime":913.235,"body":"effective January 1, 2024 or that"},{"startTime":913.235,"endTime":914.655,"body":"there was the potential to do that."},{"startTime":915.174,"endTime":918.885,"body":"Um, I think that's,"},{"startTime":915.174,"endTime":918.885,"body":"uh, unlikely to happen."},{"startTime":918.984,"endTime":919.974,"body":"Uh, what do you guys think?"},{"startTime":922.525,"endTime":925.725,"body":"I don't see where the IRS has"},{"startTime":922.525,"endTime":925.725,"body":"the power to do that, right?"},{"startTime":925.725,"endTime":928.355,"body":"The IRS has to enforce"},{"startTime":925.725,"endTime":928.355,"body":"the tax law as written."},{"startTime":928.895,"endTime":934.325,"body":"And I don't see retroactive relief,"},{"startTime":928.895,"endTime":934.325,"body":"of course, if the IRS gave some sort"},{"startTime":934.325,"endTime":939.765,"body":"of retroactive relief, I don't see"},{"startTime":934.325,"endTime":939.765,"body":"people raising the class about it."},{"startTime":939.765,"endTime":940.055,"body":"Certainly."},{"startTime":940.055,"endTime":943.135,"body":"But I find it unlikely."},{"startTime":944.835,"endTime":946.455,"body":"Yeah, I would, I would agree with that."},{"startTime":946.495,"endTime":950.674,"body":"I mean, I, I think"},{"startTime":946.495,"endTime":950.674,"body":"retroactive relief, um, here."},{"startTime":951.29,"endTime":957.23,"body":"Seems just a I agree with"},{"startTime":951.29,"endTime":957.23,"body":"James, but I don't think that"},{"startTime":957.23,"endTime":959.03,"body":"it has the ability to do that."},{"startTime":959.37,"endTime":964.78,"body":"Um, and also just them trying to do"},{"startTime":959.37,"endTime":964.78,"body":"this retroactively will cause a cause"},{"startTime":964.78,"endTime":969.555,"body":"a host of issues from like, you know,"},{"startTime":964.78,"endTime":969.555,"body":"An administration sort of standpoint."},{"startTime":970.675,"endTime":973.165,"body":"Yeah, I mean, I 1 thing"},{"startTime":970.675,"endTime":973.165,"body":"I'm fairly confident."},{"startTime":973.515,"endTime":979.735,"body":"I had even heard people speculate"},{"startTime":973.515,"endTime":979.735,"body":"that the that rescheduling would would"},{"startTime":980.054,"endTime":985.765,"body":"essentially mean that that companies that"},{"startTime":980.054,"endTime":985.765,"body":"had accrued to 80 liabilities would not"},{"startTime":985.805,"endTime":988.525,"body":"would no longer Oh, those back taxes."},{"startTime":988.525,"endTime":991.165,"body":"And that seems enormously"},{"startTime":988.525,"endTime":991.165,"body":"farfetched to me."},{"startTime":991.165,"endTime":994.145,"body":"I mean, those taxes were"},{"startTime":991.165,"endTime":994.145,"body":"owed when they were incurred."},{"startTime":994.325,"endTime":999.174,"body":"And, uh, I can't imagine the IRS"},{"startTime":994.325,"endTime":999.174,"body":"would, would, uh, would be, would"},{"startTime":999.185,"endTime":1003.955,"body":"be, uh, forgiving those accrued back"},{"startTime":999.185,"endTime":1003.955,"body":"taxes if only because other other"},{"startTime":1003.955,"endTime":1008.495,"body":"folks have actually paid those taxes"},{"startTime":1003.955,"endTime":1008.495,"body":"and they would undoubtedly cry foul."},{"startTime":1008.954,"endTime":1010.055,"body":"But it sounds like."},{"startTime":1010.27,"endTime":1013.94,"body":"Uh, James, you don't even think they"},{"startTime":1010.27,"endTime":1013.94,"body":"would have the statutory authority"},{"startTime":1013.94,"endTime":1016.649,"body":"because 280E remains in effect, right?"},{"startTime":1017.01,"endTime":1021.31,"body":"It's not it's not as if it was"},{"startTime":1017.01,"endTime":1021.31,"body":"declared unconstitutional Right, and"},{"startTime":1021.31,"endTime":1027.26,"body":"280 was in effect for those years"},{"startTime":1021.31,"endTime":1027.26,"body":"where companies filed their tax"},{"startTime":1027.27,"endTime":1029.119,"body":"returns that we're not going to pay."},{"startTime":1029.76,"endTime":1034.849,"body":"So, even if Burano chooses not to pay"},{"startTime":1029.76,"endTime":1034.849,"body":"federal tax, that's, they're going"},{"startTime":1034.849,"endTime":1036.149,"body":"to have to pay it sooner or later."},{"startTime":1036.149,"endTime":1041.609,"body":"It seems to me, unless it's struck"},{"startTime":1036.149,"endTime":1041.609,"body":"down and as in violation of commerce"},{"startTime":1041.629,"endTime":1042.829,"body":"class or something like that."},{"startTime":1043.71,"endTime":1048.97,"body":"So, so let me ask a question, let's"},{"startTime":1043.71,"endTime":1048.97,"body":"say, hypothetically, December 1st of"},{"startTime":1049.04,"endTime":1052.22,"body":"2024, the rule goes into effect and."},{"startTime":1052.655,"endTime":1056.635,"body":"Uh, cannabis marijuana is rescheduled"},{"startTime":1052.655,"endTime":1056.635,"body":"from schedule 1 to schedule 3."},{"startTime":1057.315,"endTime":1063.065,"body":"So what happens to the, in the,"},{"startTime":1057.315,"endTime":1063.065,"body":"in the 24, 2024 tax return?"},{"startTime":1063.695,"endTime":1071.345,"body":"Do taxpayers, I mean, I'm assuming"},{"startTime":1063.695,"endTime":1071.345,"body":"taxpayers are going to try to, to continue"},{"startTime":1071.355,"endTime":1073.875,"body":"all their to 80 minimization strategies."},{"startTime":1074.5,"endTime":1079.2,"body":"Up through the end of November and that"},{"startTime":1074.5,"endTime":1079.2,"body":"hypothetical and then in December, they"},{"startTime":1079.2,"endTime":1085.02,"body":"would try to shift into some, some, uh,"},{"startTime":1079.2,"endTime":1085.02,"body":"uh, try to shift their strategy into a"},{"startTime":1085.02,"endTime":1089.519,"body":"more, more normal strategy where they"},{"startTime":1085.02,"endTime":1089.519,"body":"can take ordinary business expenses."},{"startTime":1091.47,"endTime":1092.09,"body":"Is that right?"},{"startTime":1092.15,"endTime":1096.09,"body":"But in many cases, that's easier said"},{"startTime":1092.15,"endTime":1096.09,"body":"than done because we're talking about"},{"startTime":1096.6,"endTime":1098.45,"body":"allocations to cost of goods sold."},{"startTime":1098.79,"endTime":1100.12,"body":"That's a method of accounting."},{"startTime":1100.6,"endTime":1104.26,"body":"And they will then have to change"},{"startTime":1100.6,"endTime":1104.26,"body":"their methods of accounting and file."},{"startTime":1104.6,"endTime":1110.37,"body":"Of form 31 15, or if they've been"},{"startTime":1104.6,"endTime":1110.37,"body":"filing separate entity returns,"},{"startTime":1110.4,"endTime":1113.91,"body":"like lots of the, they want to"},{"startTime":1110.4,"endTime":1113.91,"body":"move to a consolidated return."},{"startTime":1114.389,"endTime":1117.389,"body":"They'll have to file"},{"startTime":1114.389,"endTime":1117.389,"body":"consolidated return election."},{"startTime":1117.389,"endTime":1117.679,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1117.7,"endTime":1118.43,"body":"So it's, it's."},{"startTime":1119.42,"endTime":1121.69,"body":"There's a lot of thinking"},{"startTime":1119.42,"endTime":1121.69,"body":"that needs to go into that."},{"startTime":1124.26,"endTime":1128.739,"body":"So it sounds like it sounds"},{"startTime":1124.26,"endTime":1128.739,"body":"like taxpayers in 2024."},{"startTime":1128.92,"endTime":1134.3,"body":"Are 2024 to 80 is largely going to"},{"startTime":1128.92,"endTime":1134.3,"body":"remain in effect, even if rescheduling."},{"startTime":1135.02,"endTime":1138.04,"body":"Happens, um, before the end of the year."},{"startTime":1138.04,"endTime":1139.58,"body":"Is that is that fair?"},{"startTime":1139.59,"endTime":1143.629,"body":"I mean, as a general"},{"startTime":1139.59,"endTime":1143.629,"body":"statement, I think that's fair."},{"startTime":1144.159,"endTime":1144.53,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1146.699,"endTime":1149.75,"body":"So, I guess to summarize this"},{"startTime":1146.699,"endTime":1149.75,"body":"rescheduling announcement, right?"},{"startTime":1149.75,"endTime":1156.53,"body":"That the good news is the 280 by its"},{"startTime":1149.75,"endTime":1156.53,"body":"terms, it will 280 stays in effect."},{"startTime":1156.539,"endTime":1159.78,"body":"It just no longer applies"},{"startTime":1156.539,"endTime":1159.78,"body":"to to marijuana companies or"},{"startTime":1159.78,"endTime":1161.36,"body":"cannabis companies going forward."},{"startTime":1161.689,"endTime":1163.35,"body":"Assuming that rescheduling."},{"startTime":1163.655,"endTime":1168.545,"body":"Uh, uh, recommendation and an"},{"startTime":1163.655,"endTime":1168.545,"body":"announcement, assuming the agencies"},{"startTime":1168.545,"endTime":1170.195,"body":"follow through and get it done."},{"startTime":1170.525,"endTime":1175.445,"body":"Uh, you know, some sometime soon in,"},{"startTime":1170.525,"endTime":1175.445,"body":"in other words, it's not, it's not"},{"startTime":1175.445,"endTime":1180.005,"body":"set aside by a court, uh, or it's"},{"startTime":1175.445,"endTime":1180.005,"body":"not, you know, it, it isn't, um,"},{"startTime":1180.415,"endTime":1185.305,"body":"stalled through some other, uh, uh,"},{"startTime":1180.415,"endTime":1185.305,"body":"uh, some other hiccup in the process."},{"startTime":1185.605,"endTime":1190.965,"body":"So, assuming it gets done though, two"},{"startTime":1185.605,"endTime":1190.965,"body":"80 e going away, go, uh, or 2 82 80 e."},{"startTime":1191.51,"endTime":1195.91,"body":"Uh, going away on a going forward"},{"startTime":1191.51,"endTime":1195.91,"body":"basis, I think is very big news."},{"startTime":1196.04,"endTime":1202.229,"body":"So why don't we move to the other,"},{"startTime":1196.04,"endTime":1202.229,"body":"uh, the other issue also 280E related"},{"startTime":1202.689,"endTime":1207.099,"body":"that got everybody, everybody's chin"},{"startTime":1202.689,"endTime":1207.099,"body":"wagging, uh, about three, four weeks ago."},{"startTime":1207.099,"endTime":1212.33,"body":"And that was the announcement by"},{"startTime":1207.099,"endTime":1212.33,"body":"Trulieve that they had amended a few"},{"startTime":1212.33,"endTime":1215.38,"body":"years of tax returns and received a."},{"startTime":1215.67,"endTime":1222.77,"body":"Tax refund on previously paid 280e"},{"startTime":1215.67,"endTime":1222.77,"body":"taxes of a pretty large number."},{"startTime":1223.79,"endTime":1228.21,"body":"Um, James or Adam, actually,"},{"startTime":1223.79,"endTime":1228.21,"body":"James, why don't you start?"},{"startTime":1228.22,"endTime":1232.499,"body":"What, give me a little more"},{"startTime":1228.22,"endTime":1232.499,"body":"detail with what did Trulieve say?"},{"startTime":1232.87,"endTime":1239.26,"body":"And what do you, since it was, in my"},{"startTime":1232.87,"endTime":1239.26,"body":"view, a little bit vague in terms of"},{"startTime":1239.66,"endTime":1244.87,"body":"the, the legal position on, that they"},{"startTime":1239.66,"endTime":1244.87,"body":"took in order to make this refund claim."},{"startTime":1245.43,"endTime":1248.81,"body":"What did they what is your kind"},{"startTime":1245.43,"endTime":1248.81,"body":"of reverse engineering of what"},{"startTime":1248.81,"endTime":1251.83,"body":"they you think they likely did"},{"startTime":1248.81,"endTime":1251.83,"body":"in order to get this money back?"},{"startTime":1253.32,"endTime":1256.02,"body":"Well, they are deliberately"},{"startTime":1253.32,"endTime":1256.02,"body":"opaque and the 10 K."},{"startTime":1256.27,"endTime":1263.07,"body":"they say they got refunds"},{"startTime":1256.27,"endTime":1263.07,"body":"of, um, of 62M dollars in the"},{"startTime":1263.07,"endTime":1265.439,"body":"4th quarter and 50M dollars."},{"startTime":1265.44,"endTime":1267.05,"body":"The 1st quarter of 2024."},{"startTime":1267.73,"endTime":1273.949,"body":"But they don't say that it was"},{"startTime":1267.73,"endTime":1273.949,"body":"this is related to, but they don't"},{"startTime":1273.949,"endTime":1277.48,"body":"say really the refunds from from"},{"startTime":1273.949,"endTime":1277.48,"body":"the IRS or state tax authority."},{"startTime":1277.729,"endTime":1278.289,"body":"It could be."},{"startTime":1278.29,"endTime":1281.189,"body":"They just asked for their"},{"startTime":1278.29,"endTime":1281.189,"body":"estimated tax payments back."},{"startTime":1281.47,"endTime":1282.049,"body":"Now, it's clear."},{"startTime":1282.05,"endTime":1284.579,"body":"They had, I mean, they said,"},{"startTime":1282.05,"endTime":1284.579,"body":"I take it at face value."},{"startTime":1284.95,"endTime":1289.67,"body":"They have filed amended returns"},{"startTime":1284.95,"endTime":1289.67,"body":"for 1920 and 21, claiming"},{"startTime":1289.67,"endTime":1291.68,"body":"refunds of all the tax they pay."},{"startTime":1292.15,"endTime":1297.059,"body":"And it's also clear that for 2324"},{"startTime":1292.15,"endTime":1297.059,"body":"going forward, they are going to"},{"startTime":1297.059,"endTime":1303.639,"body":"say 280 doesn't apply to us and"},{"startTime":1297.059,"endTime":1303.639,"body":"because truly, of course, has nothing"},{"startTime":1303.669,"endTime":1305.804,"body":"but else as far as the, I can see."},{"startTime":1306.145,"endTime":1312.085,"body":"They won't pay any federal tax, but"},{"startTime":1306.145,"endTime":1312.085,"body":"other than that, it's not entirely"},{"startTime":1312.085,"endTime":1314.015,"body":"clear what they're doing in the 10 K."},{"startTime":1314.015,"endTime":1318.834,"body":"they do talk about how they have a"},{"startTime":1314.015,"endTime":1318.834,"body":"reasonable basis for not paying tax in"},{"startTime":1318.834,"endTime":1323.195,"body":"the future, which suggests they have"},{"startTime":1318.834,"endTime":1323.195,"body":"a reasonable basis opinion of some"},{"startTime":1323.204,"endTime":1325.154,"body":"sort, which we can talk about later."},{"startTime":1326.865,"endTime":1327.135,"body":"Well, let's talk."},{"startTime":1328.574,"endTime":1329.024,"body":"Yeah, go ahead."},{"startTime":1329.024,"endTime":1329.945,"body":"Real quick question."},{"startTime":1330.034,"endTime":1336.554,"body":"You know, I, my understanding too, is"},{"startTime":1330.034,"endTime":1336.554,"body":"that the accountant, um, had indicated"},{"startTime":1336.565,"endTime":1343.944,"body":"that several of the positions, uh, being"},{"startTime":1336.565,"endTime":1343.944,"body":"taken were, um, potentially uncertain"},{"startTime":1343.945,"endTime":1348.635,"body":"tax positions, like, and I'm not sure"},{"startTime":1343.945,"endTime":1348.635,"body":"if Exactly if I heard that right,"},{"startTime":1348.635,"endTime":1349.925,"body":"but maybe you could expand on that."},{"startTime":1350.655,"endTime":1352.245,"body":"That's a great point, Adam."},{"startTime":1352.264,"endTime":1357.765,"body":"And in the 10 K, it says their"},{"startTime":1352.264,"endTime":1357.765,"body":"accountants Markham made them put up"},{"startTime":1357.835,"endTime":1362.394,"body":"an uncertain tax position reserve for"},{"startTime":1357.835,"endTime":1362.394,"body":"the entire amount of those 3 funds."},{"startTime":1363.175,"endTime":1368.345,"body":"So, what Markham is saying is they"},{"startTime":1363.175,"endTime":1368.345,"body":"believe it is more likely than not."},{"startTime":1368.975,"endTime":1373.075,"body":"51 percent they're going to have to"},{"startTime":1368.975,"endTime":1373.075,"body":"give the money back, which suggests"},{"startTime":1373.085,"endTime":1375.375,"body":"strongly that it's their refunds."},{"startTime":1375.375,"endTime":1377.144,"body":"We're not the IRS saying."},{"startTime":1377.364,"endTime":1378.705,"body":"Oh, yeah, and it's a great argument."},{"startTime":1378.705,"endTime":1379.074,"body":"You win."},{"startTime":1379.084,"endTime":1380.424,"body":"Here's here's the money."},{"startTime":1380.435,"endTime":1383.785,"body":"It suggested something else is"},{"startTime":1380.435,"endTime":1383.785,"body":"going on, but that is a great point."},{"startTime":1383.835,"endTime":1384.805,"body":"The fact that there is a is."},{"startTime":1386.534,"endTime":1387.145,"body":"Interesting."},{"startTime":1388.705,"endTime":1397.685,"body":"So, so, um, so when the accountants, uh,"},{"startTime":1388.705,"endTime":1397.685,"body":"when the accountants make an uncertain tax"},{"startTime":1397.685,"endTime":1402.405,"body":"position note, it's their, that's, that's"},{"startTime":1397.685,"endTime":1402.405,"body":"them saying it's their view that it's,"},{"startTime":1402.735,"endTime":1409.925,"body":"that the, that the most likely outcome"},{"startTime":1402.735,"endTime":1409.925,"body":"is that the, um, uh, that the, that the"},{"startTime":1410.064,"endTime":1414.654,"body":"company that they're auditing, in other"},{"startTime":1410.064,"endTime":1414.654,"body":"words, in this case, truly, most likely"},{"startTime":1414.654,"endTime":1416.654,"body":"truly will have to pay that money back."},{"startTime":1416.674,"endTime":1420.995,"body":"That's, That's your interpretation"},{"startTime":1416.674,"endTime":1420.995,"body":"of the uncertain tax opinion,"},{"startTime":1421.695,"endTime":1423.905,"body":"um, notation by the auditors."},{"startTime":1425.405,"endTime":1426.055,"body":"It's mine."},{"startTime":1426.615,"endTime":1427.014,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1427.695,"endTime":1428.005,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":1428.335,"endTime":1434.565,"body":"I mean, I think, look, as a corporate"},{"startTime":1428.335,"endTime":1434.565,"body":"lawyer in the space, um, you know, I can,"},{"startTime":1434.625,"endTime":1442.704,"body":"I can certainly see, for example, that,"},{"startTime":1434.625,"endTime":1442.704,"body":"um, if, if a taxpayer can take a, has a"},{"startTime":1442.714,"endTime":1449.444,"body":"reasonable basis for taking a reporting"},{"startTime":1442.714,"endTime":1449.444,"body":"position, um, that may ultimately not."},{"startTime":1449.895,"endTime":1456.575,"body":"Not prove to be the winner with,"},{"startTime":1449.895,"endTime":1456.575,"body":"uh, with IRX or in tax court, uh,"},{"startTime":1456.625,"endTime":1459.705,"body":"they still may want to make that"},{"startTime":1456.625,"endTime":1459.705,"body":"take that reporting position."},{"startTime":1460.405,"endTime":1464.774,"body":"Uh, if it, if it helps them from a,"},{"startTime":1460.405,"endTime":1464.774,"body":"just from a operational basis from a"},{"startTime":1464.774,"endTime":1470.165,"body":"cash flow basis, because, I mean, let's"},{"startTime":1464.774,"endTime":1470.165,"body":"explain to me either James or Adam, if"},{"startTime":1470.165,"endTime":1474.955,"body":"the taxpayer has a, is, has a reasonable"},{"startTime":1470.165,"endTime":1474.955,"body":"basis, and they actually have an opinion"},{"startTime":1474.955,"endTime":1478.034,"body":"from a law firm that says, you know,"},{"startTime":1474.955,"endTime":1478.034,"body":"You have a reasonable basis to take"},{"startTime":1478.034,"endTime":1480.815,"body":"this position with respect to 280 E."},{"startTime":1481.435,"endTime":1485.074,"body":"Um, what does that mean if they"},{"startTime":1481.435,"endTime":1485.074,"body":"ultimately are unsuccessful in"},{"startTime":1485.074,"endTime":1490.185,"body":"persuading a tax court that they, uh,"},{"startTime":1485.074,"endTime":1490.185,"body":"that they have the proper position?"},{"startTime":1493.115,"endTime":1495.745,"body":"No, I think, you know, the"},{"startTime":1493.115,"endTime":1495.745,"body":"simplest answer is penalties."},{"startTime":1496.385,"endTime":1503.325,"body":"Um, if you, if you get to rely on a"},{"startTime":1496.385,"endTime":1503.325,"body":"reasonable basis, uh, standards, and you"},{"startTime":1503.365,"endTime":1508.924,"body":"can, and the IRS asserts that you do in"},{"startTime":1503.365,"endTime":1508.924,"body":"fact owe the liability, uh, the penalties"},{"startTime":1508.925,"endTime":1514.775,"body":"asserted, you should be able to get,"},{"startTime":1508.925,"endTime":1514.775,"body":"um, get abated because you relied on"},{"startTime":1514.815,"endTime":1516.685,"body":"a reasonable basis tax opinion letter."},{"startTime":1518.955,"endTime":1519.385,"body":"I got it."},{"startTime":1519.575,"endTime":1524.595,"body":"So, so in that case, then"},{"startTime":1519.575,"endTime":1524.595,"body":"they may have, they may be."},{"startTime":1524.88,"endTime":1527.36,"body":"Avoiding penalties for underpayment."},{"startTime":1527.96,"endTime":1531.25,"body":"Um, and essentially, they'll have,"},{"startTime":1527.96,"endTime":1531.25,"body":"they'll have to pay the money back with"},{"startTime":1531.25,"endTime":1535.11,"body":"interest that that's what ultimately"},{"startTime":1531.25,"endTime":1535.11,"body":"would happen if they were unsuccessful."},{"startTime":1536.579,"endTime":1537.129,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1538.8,"endTime":1539.109,"body":"Got it."},{"startTime":1539.38,"endTime":1540.05,"body":"I'll also wait."},{"startTime":1540.059,"endTime":1546.909,"body":"1 other point, the reasonable basis"},{"startTime":1540.059,"endTime":1546.909,"body":"opinion and actually protects the tax"},{"startTime":1546.909,"endTime":1550.289,"body":"return preparer from a preparer penalty."},{"startTime":1550.685,"endTime":1556.814,"body":"Under 6694, so somebody has to sign"},{"startTime":1550.685,"endTime":1556.814,"body":"the tax return and the preparers"},{"startTime":1556.844,"endTime":1560.514,"body":"want to see a reasonable basis"},{"startTime":1556.844,"endTime":1560.514,"body":"opinion for that reason as well."},{"startTime":1561.344,"endTime":1561.794,"body":"Interesting."},{"startTime":1562.975,"endTime":1570.794,"body":"So, um, so what I've heard and,"},{"startTime":1562.975,"endTime":1570.794,"body":"and James, you can potentially"},{"startTime":1570.794,"endTime":1578.284,"body":"expand upon this is that the, um,"},{"startTime":1570.794,"endTime":1578.284,"body":"that truly in, in making their."},{"startTime":1578.679,"endTime":1586.929,"body":"In making their refund claim, and it"},{"startTime":1578.679,"endTime":1586.929,"body":"has essentially taken the position"},{"startTime":1587.629,"endTime":1590.959,"body":"that 280 is unconstitutional,"},{"startTime":1587.629,"endTime":1590.959,"body":"at least as applied to them."},{"startTime":1592.019,"endTime":1595.569,"body":"And so, therefore, they don't, they"},{"startTime":1592.019,"endTime":1595.569,"body":"don't need to, uh, they don't need"},{"startTime":1595.569,"endTime":1598.429,"body":"to pay the tax and in all likelihood."},{"startTime":1598.71,"endTime":1604.29,"body":"They got a reasonable basis opinion from,"},{"startTime":1598.71,"endTime":1604.29,"body":"uh, from a law firm that says they have a"},{"startTime":1604.29,"endTime":1606.1,"body":"reasonable basis for taking that position."},{"startTime":1606.17,"endTime":1609.41,"body":"Is that, is that your"},{"startTime":1606.17,"endTime":1609.41,"body":"understanding as well, James?"},{"startTime":1610.69,"endTime":1616.56,"body":"Yes, and I, I define reasonable basis."},{"startTime":1616.61,"endTime":1620.69,"body":"I mean, it's, it's less than more likely"},{"startTime":1616.61,"endTime":1620.69,"body":"than not, which means you would have a."},{"startTime":1621.365,"endTime":1625.165,"body":"51 percent chance of prevailing"},{"startTime":1621.365,"endTime":1625.165,"body":"if challenged by the IRS."},{"startTime":1625.175,"endTime":1630.854,"body":"I think a reasonable basis opinion saying"},{"startTime":1625.175,"endTime":1630.854,"body":"you have, like, a 20 percent chance of"},{"startTime":1630.864,"endTime":1632.895,"body":"prevailing if challenged by the IRS."},{"startTime":1632.935,"endTime":1635.144,"body":"So it's a 1 in 5 chance."},{"startTime":1635.314,"endTime":1639.195,"body":"There's, there's nothing in a reg"},{"startTime":1635.314,"endTime":1639.195,"body":"that says that, but that's sort of, I"},{"startTime":1639.215,"endTime":1643.365,"body":"think, commonly accepted 1, 1 out of 5."},{"startTime":1644.445,"endTime":1648.825,"body":"So what are the, I mean, without getting"},{"startTime":1644.445,"endTime":1648.825,"body":"too technical legal, you know, I'm"},{"startTime":1648.865,"endTime":1651.315,"body":"putting my law student hat back on."},{"startTime":1651.315,"endTime":1652.175,"body":"I mean, I know."},{"startTime":1652.925,"endTime":1659.104,"body":"There's, you know, if, if you, if you,"},{"startTime":1652.925,"endTime":1659.104,"body":"if you go into a tribunal of some type"},{"startTime":1659.504,"endTime":1665.384,"body":"and you make a frivolous argument, then"},{"startTime":1659.504,"endTime":1665.384,"body":"you can, you could usually get penalized"},{"startTime":1665.395,"endTime":1667.234,"body":"for that in some, in some context."},{"startTime":1667.714,"endTime":1668.274,"body":"So."},{"startTime":1669.435,"endTime":1674.534,"body":"Having a good faith basis or a,"},{"startTime":1669.435,"endTime":1674.534,"body":"you know, a non frivolous argument"},{"startTime":1674.574,"endTime":1677.115,"body":"is, I think, a very low bar, right?"},{"startTime":1677.115,"endTime":1682.504,"body":"More likely than not seems to be, you"},{"startTime":1677.115,"endTime":1682.504,"body":"know, that's a 51 plus percent, right?"},{"startTime":1682.505,"endTime":1684.304,"body":"You, you are likely to prevail."},{"startTime":1684.865,"endTime":1688.385,"body":"So it sounds like reasonable basis is"},{"startTime":1684.865,"endTime":1688.385,"body":"somewhere in between those 2 extremes."},{"startTime":1688.385,"endTime":1688.895,"body":"Is that right?"},{"startTime":1690.935,"endTime":1698.024,"body":"Right, it means it's not frivolous, but it"},{"startTime":1690.935,"endTime":1698.024,"body":"does, but it's also below what some people"},{"startTime":1698.044,"endTime":1701.655,"body":"call what a substantial authority opinion."},{"startTime":1702.364,"endTime":1706.264,"body":"So, and that's whatever, 35"},{"startTime":1702.364,"endTime":1706.264,"body":"percent chance prevailing."},{"startTime":1706.264,"endTime":1711.334,"body":"So, it's goes in descending order or more"},{"startTime":1706.264,"endTime":1711.334,"body":"likely than not substantial authority."},{"startTime":1711.684,"endTime":1713.344,"body":"Reasonable basis, I think."},{"startTime":1714.11,"endTime":1714.67,"body":"Interesting."},{"startTime":1715.71,"endTime":1723.34,"body":"Um, so I do know, James, that after"},{"startTime":1715.71,"endTime":1723.34,"body":"to leave made this announcement, it"},{"startTime":1723.35,"endTime":1729.74,"body":"certainly generated a lot of excitement"},{"startTime":1723.35,"endTime":1729.74,"body":"in the industry and other folks, um,"},{"startTime":1729.809,"endTime":1734.709,"body":"started looking at their own, uh,"},{"startTime":1729.809,"endTime":1734.709,"body":"their own, uh, tax returns and started"},{"startTime":1734.709,"endTime":1739.08,"body":"calling their own tax advisors to see"},{"startTime":1734.709,"endTime":1739.08,"body":"if they could make a similar claim for,"},{"startTime":1739.22,"endTime":1742.97,"body":"um, Uh, for a refund under two 80 E."},{"startTime":1743.48,"endTime":1749.62,"body":"Um, is I, I, I, I realize you can't"},{"startTime":1743.48,"endTime":1749.62,"body":"disclose client confidential information,"},{"startTime":1749.62,"endTime":1753.75,"body":"but, uh, what are you seeing and, and"},{"startTime":1749.62,"endTime":1753.75,"body":"are you doing this sort of thing for"},{"startTime":1753.75,"endTime":1756.78,"body":"any of your, uh, your two 80 e clients?"},{"startTime":1758.99,"endTime":1760.31,"body":"Those are two different questions."},{"startTime":1760.315,"endTime":1765.53,"body":"1, 1, 1 is we, we, we do know"},{"startTime":1760.315,"endTime":1765.53,"body":"that there's a court case called"},{"startTime":1765.53,"endTime":1767.33,"body":"Canner provisions v Garland."},{"startTime":1767.909,"endTime":1772.97,"body":"Where Verano, one of the big companies"},{"startTime":1767.909,"endTime":1772.97,"body":"is, is a plaintiff and it's also been"},{"startTime":1773.01,"endTime":1778.909,"body":"funded and no secret by some of the other"},{"startTime":1773.01,"endTime":1778.909,"body":"big companies and that court case in"},{"startTime":1778.909,"endTime":1780.31,"body":"the Western district of Massachusetts."},{"startTime":1780.329,"endTime":1785.969,"body":"Is a child, it says that"},{"startTime":1780.329,"endTime":1785.969,"body":"applying schedule 1 to."},{"startTime":1786.76,"endTime":1792.24,"body":"Interstate legal cannabis exceeds"},{"startTime":1786.76,"endTime":1792.24,"body":"Congress's authority under the"},{"startTime":1792.24,"endTime":1793.46,"body":"interstate commerce clause."},{"startTime":1793.86,"endTime":1796.72,"body":"The schedule 1 shouldn't apply to them."},{"startTime":1797.285,"endTime":1800.825,"body":"And then by implication that"},{"startTime":1797.285,"endTime":1800.825,"body":"a 280 shouldn't apply to them."},{"startTime":1801.285,"endTime":1807.475,"body":"And a lot of these companies, the"},{"startTime":1801.285,"endTime":1807.475,"body":"reasonable basis opinion, 1 of the pillars"},{"startTime":1807.505,"endTime":1810.115,"body":"of it is this commerce clause argument."},{"startTime":1810.605,"endTime":1816.745,"body":"Um, 1 issue with that is, of course, that"},{"startTime":1810.605,"endTime":1816.745,"body":"can, but there's a case there's a Supreme"},{"startTime":1816.745,"endTime":1818.915,"body":"Court case called Gonzalez be rash."},{"startTime":1819.01,"endTime":1826.72,"body":"In 2005, that directly says, it's"},{"startTime":1819.01,"endTime":1826.72,"body":"okay that schedule 1 cannabis, that's"},{"startTime":1826.72,"endTime":1830.42,"body":"a valid exercise of Congress's power"},{"startTime":1826.72,"endTime":1830.42,"body":"under the interstate commerce clause."},{"startTime":1830.92,"endTime":1835.64,"body":"And so what they're arguing"},{"startTime":1830.92,"endTime":1835.64,"body":"and can provisions is that."},{"startTime":1836.38,"endTime":1841.82,"body":"The factual premises on which, on"},{"startTime":1836.38,"endTime":1841.82,"body":"which can be arrested cannabis being"},{"startTime":1841.85,"endTime":1843.47,"body":"fungible and so forth and so on."},{"startTime":1843.91,"endTime":1845.53,"body":"All of that has changed."},{"startTime":1845.93,"endTime":1852.48,"body":"So, that, uh, decision, which was 6"},{"startTime":1845.93,"endTime":1852.48,"body":"3, um, would be overturned if heard by"},{"startTime":1852.48,"endTime":1856.76,"body":"the current court, and canon provisions"},{"startTime":1852.48,"endTime":1856.76,"body":"is just a vehicle to overturn it."},{"startTime":1857.3,"endTime":1861.28,"body":"So, that's 1 of the big"},{"startTime":1857.3,"endTime":1861.28,"body":"arguments being, being used in"},{"startTime":1861.28,"endTime":1863.01,"body":"the reasonable basis opinions."},{"startTime":1865.74,"endTime":1871.35,"body":"And are, are you seeing other"},{"startTime":1865.74,"endTime":1871.35,"body":"taxpayers, um, trying to seek"},{"startTime":1871.35,"endTime":1873.63,"body":"similar relief to TrueLeaf?"},{"startTime":1874.21,"endTime":1875.96,"body":"Are other taxpayers filing these claims?"},{"startTime":1878.075,"endTime":1882.305,"body":"Um, they all are who can't afford to"},{"startTime":1878.075,"endTime":1882.305,"body":"pay their taxes, which is most of them."},{"startTime":1882.775,"endTime":1890.165,"body":"Um, so a bunch of my clients, for example,"},{"startTime":1882.775,"endTime":1890.165,"body":"my, my existing client base, uh, has said,"},{"startTime":1890.175,"endTime":1891.975,"body":"gee, we're, we're in a lot of trouble."},{"startTime":1893.015,"endTime":1895.555,"body":"We're, we're hoping"},{"startTime":1893.015,"endTime":1895.555,"body":"better times are ahead."},{"startTime":1895.555,"endTime":1900.675,"body":"They'll be rescheduling, but, um,"},{"startTime":1895.555,"endTime":1900.675,"body":"they want a reasonable basis opinion."},{"startTime":1900.695,"endTime":1904.005,"body":"So, so a, they're filing"},{"startTime":1900.695,"endTime":1904.005,"body":"for refunds, like, truly."},{"startTime":1904.63,"endTime":1910.07,"body":"And B, on their 2023 and 2024 returns,"},{"startTime":1904.63,"endTime":1910.07,"body":"they're going to say 280 doesn't apply"},{"startTime":1910.07,"endTime":1915.4,"body":"to us, and thus we're going to take"},{"startTime":1910.07,"endTime":1915.4,"body":"deductions just like a normal company."},{"startTime":1915.95,"endTime":1920.22,"body":"And keep in mind that reasonable"},{"startTime":1915.95,"endTime":1920.22,"body":"basis is 1 out of 5 chance."},{"startTime":1920.22,"endTime":1920.61,"body":"I think."},{"startTime":1921.42,"endTime":1923.94,"body":"Yeah, that's seems okay to me."},{"startTime":1924.3,"endTime":1927.339,"body":"There are also other arguments,"},{"startTime":1924.3,"endTime":1927.339,"body":"like the 16th amendment."},{"startTime":1927.62,"endTime":1931.05,"body":"That you would add to that"},{"startTime":1927.62,"endTime":1931.05,"body":"opinion, but I think the commerce"},{"startTime":1931.05,"endTime":1932.99,"body":"clause is sort of the newly."},{"startTime":1933.57,"endTime":1934.91,"body":"Is the current flavor of the month."},{"startTime":1936.82,"endTime":1940.84,"body":"So tell me a little bit about"},{"startTime":1936.82,"endTime":1940.84,"body":"the difference between a, a"},{"startTime":1940.91,"endTime":1946.63,"body":"protective refund claim versus,"},{"startTime":1940.91,"endTime":1946.63,"body":"you know, an actual refund claim."},{"startTime":1946.63,"endTime":1951.65,"body":"And when is, I've heard both of those"},{"startTime":1946.63,"endTime":1951.65,"body":"terms being used and I'm not sure I"},{"startTime":1951.65,"endTime":1952.93,"body":"understand what the difference is."},{"startTime":1954.49,"endTime":1958.73,"body":"Well, a refund claim is where you"},{"startTime":1954.49,"endTime":1958.73,"body":"file an amended return for past year"},{"startTime":1958.73,"endTime":1960.525,"body":"and says, Give me the money back."},{"startTime":1961.155,"endTime":1962.415,"body":"There's the submitted return."},{"startTime":1962.755,"endTime":1967.815,"body":"I'm taking the deductions"},{"startTime":1962.755,"endTime":1967.815,"body":"because 280 doesn't apply."},{"startTime":1967.905,"endTime":1974.055,"body":"So I want the money back a protective"},{"startTime":1967.905,"endTime":1974.055,"body":"refund claim is where you file a"},{"startTime":1974.055,"endTime":1978.715,"body":"letter with the IRS with respect to"},{"startTime":1974.055,"endTime":1978.715,"body":"a particular year for a particular"},{"startTime":1978.715,"endTime":1983.525,"body":"taxpayer saying in the event of"},{"startTime":1978.715,"endTime":1983.525,"body":"some specified contingent event."},{"startTime":1983.875,"endTime":1985.675,"body":"We are going to apply for refund."},{"startTime":1985.755,"endTime":1990.925,"body":"So the specified contingent event"},{"startTime":1985.755,"endTime":1990.925,"body":"in this case will be 2 80 gets"},{"startTime":1990.935,"endTime":1994.615,"body":"struck down as unconstitutional"},{"startTime":1990.935,"endTime":1994.615,"body":"for this reason or that reason."},{"startTime":1994.935,"endTime":1996.665,"body":"And if that happens."},{"startTime":1997.235,"endTime":2003.075,"body":"Then we want to file a refund for"},{"startTime":1997.235,"endTime":2003.075,"body":"this past year for 2020 or 2021 or"},{"startTime":2003.115,"endTime":2008.245,"body":"whatever, but we're going to file"},{"startTime":2003.115,"endTime":2008.245,"body":"that claim for refund if and only"},{"startTime":2008.285,"endTime":2012.605,"body":"if this contingent event, which"},{"startTime":2008.285,"endTime":2012.605,"body":"is outside of our control occurs."},{"startTime":2013.875,"endTime":2020.745,"body":"Yeah, I think I think of a similar as well"},{"startTime":2013.875,"endTime":2020.745,"body":"in just that the protective claim is going"},{"startTime":2020.745,"endTime":2025.375,"body":"to potentially suspend the statute of"},{"startTime":2020.745,"endTime":2025.375,"body":"limitations for the actual refund claim."},{"startTime":2025.785,"endTime":2030.535,"body":"So you're, you're indicating that"},{"startTime":2025.785,"endTime":2030.535,"body":"IRS that you, you want the statute"},{"startTime":2030.535,"endTime":2035.195,"body":"of limitations for your refund to"},{"startTime":2030.535,"endTime":2035.195,"body":"be extended because potentially"},{"startTime":2035.195,"endTime":2036.915,"body":"the contingent event may occur."},{"startTime":2038.085,"endTime":2038.885,"body":"Yeah, that was my question."},{"startTime":2038.885,"endTime":2040.085,"body":"Does it total the statute of limitations?"},{"startTime":2040.085,"endTime":2040.725,"body":"Sounds like it does."},{"startTime":2041.175,"endTime":2041.665,"body":"That's great."},{"startTime":2041.905,"endTime":2049.105,"body":"Um, so, uh, so, in, in terms of"},{"startTime":2041.905,"endTime":2049.105,"body":"a, of a, of a reasonable basis"},{"startTime":2049.105,"endTime":2051.945,"body":"opinion, um, you know, I'm, uh."},{"startTime":2052.76,"endTime":2054.62,"body":"Uh, I'm a corporate lawyer."},{"startTime":2054.62,"endTime":2057.89,"body":"I've rendered legal opinions,"},{"startTime":2054.62,"endTime":2057.89,"body":"you know, since I started"},{"startTime":2057.89,"endTime":2059.52,"body":"practicing in the late 90s."},{"startTime":2059.97,"endTime":2063.35,"body":"I sat on opinion committees at other"},{"startTime":2059.97,"endTime":2063.35,"body":"law firms, although I don't sit on"},{"startTime":2063.35,"endTime":2068.09,"body":"our own firms opinion committee, but"},{"startTime":2063.35,"endTime":2068.09,"body":"I, I know kind of what goes into."},{"startTime":2068.595,"endTime":2071.855,"body":"A legal opinion, I also know"},{"startTime":2068.595,"endTime":2071.855,"body":"that reliance on a legal opinion"},{"startTime":2071.855,"endTime":2073.515,"body":"itself has to be reasonable."},{"startTime":2073.955,"endTime":2080.355,"body":"So, um, uh, James, since I think,"},{"startTime":2073.955,"endTime":2080.355,"body":"you know, more about these reasonable"},{"startTime":2080.355,"endTime":2085.055,"body":"basis opinions specific to this"},{"startTime":2080.355,"endTime":2085.055,"body":"to leave, or to this to 80 refund,"},{"startTime":2085.455,"endTime":2087.985,"body":"um, what are these opinions?"},{"startTime":2088.37,"endTime":2095.25,"body":"Look like, and, uh, uh, you know, is it"},{"startTime":2088.37,"endTime":2095.25,"body":"how would somebody figure out whether it's"},{"startTime":2095.33,"endTime":2097.02,"body":"reasonable to rely on 1 of them or not?"},{"startTime":2099.11,"endTime":2102.93,"body":"Well, they can't be conclusory opinions."},{"startTime":2102.98,"endTime":2106.71,"body":"They have to tell you why"},{"startTime":2102.98,"endTime":2106.71,"body":"they're reaching this conclusion."},{"startTime":2106.71,"endTime":2108.6,"body":"And why and what is their evidence?"},{"startTime":2108.61,"endTime":2110.03,"body":"And what are the arguments against it?"},{"startTime":2111.42,"endTime":2116.25,"body":"Reasonable basis opinions that I'm"},{"startTime":2111.42,"endTime":2116.25,"body":"drafting, like, are 60 pages long."},{"startTime":2116.3,"endTime":2117.33,"body":"So they're really long."},{"startTime":2117.76,"endTime":2124.37,"body":"And the other thing is, you want the"},{"startTime":2117.76,"endTime":2124.37,"body":"author are authors of reasonable basis"},{"startTime":2124.37,"endTime":2129.83,"body":"opinion to actually have expertise in"},{"startTime":2124.37,"endTime":2129.83,"body":"the field and, like, have litigated"},{"startTime":2129.83,"endTime":2132.01,"body":"with the service about these issues."},{"startTime":2132.01,"endTime":2138.26,"body":"And in generally speaking, the taxpayer"},{"startTime":2132.01,"endTime":2138.26,"body":"has to be able to make a credible claim"},{"startTime":2138.26,"endTime":2140.91,"body":"that the author of the opinion kind of."},{"startTime":2141.76,"endTime":2143.49,"body":"New would hear she was talking about."},{"startTime":2145.22,"endTime":2148.57,"body":"I also think it's important to"},{"startTime":2145.22,"endTime":2148.57,"body":"point out that, you know, the, the"},{"startTime":2148.57,"endTime":2152.91,"body":"taxpayer must provide the attorney"},{"startTime":2148.57,"endTime":2152.91,"body":"with absolute, you know, all facts,"},{"startTime":2152.95,"endTime":2155.22,"body":"whether they're good, bad, et cetera."},{"startTime":2155.33,"endTime":2160.23,"body":"And, and, uh, the author"},{"startTime":2155.33,"endTime":2160.23,"body":"needs to analyze everything."},{"startTime":2160.6,"endTime":2165.65,"body":"Everything that was provided from"},{"startTime":2160.6,"endTime":2165.65,"body":"the taxpayer and you can't, you"},{"startTime":2165.65,"endTime":2171.06,"body":"can't gloss over the bad facts to"},{"startTime":2165.65,"endTime":2171.06,"body":"the author needs to analyze those and"},{"startTime":2171.06,"endTime":2175.96,"body":"present a compelling argument to the"},{"startTime":2171.06,"endTime":2175.96,"body":"IRS or to the reader about why those"},{"startTime":2175.97,"endTime":2177.7,"body":"bad facts don't necessarily matter."},{"startTime":2180.12,"endTime":2181.84,"body":"Right, exactly right."},{"startTime":2181.84,"endTime":2185.69,"body":"And when you're signing that opinion,"},{"startTime":2181.84,"endTime":2185.69,"body":"you're saying, I've looked at all the"},{"startTime":2185.69,"endTime":2187.55,"body":"real facts and here's what I think."},{"startTime":2188.61,"endTime":2190.5,"body":"Given knowledge of all the real facts."},{"startTime":2192.23,"endTime":2200.48,"body":"So, um, 1 other thing that, you know,"},{"startTime":2192.23,"endTime":2200.48,"body":"again, I, it's, um, really don't"},{"startTime":2200.48,"endTime":2203.26,"body":"want to pick on truly if it's just"},{"startTime":2200.48,"endTime":2203.26,"body":"that they made the announcement."},{"startTime":2203.26,"endTime":2206.71,"body":"And so they're the ones who started this"},{"startTime":2203.26,"endTime":2206.71,"body":"process and got everybody looking at"},{"startTime":2206.71,"endTime":2212.93,"body":"their 10 K and their public disclosures"},{"startTime":2206.71,"endTime":2212.93,"body":"around their, their tax refund claims and"},{"startTime":2212.94,"endTime":2217.93,"body":"got everybody trying to reverse engineer"},{"startTime":2212.94,"endTime":2217.93,"body":"or deduce what, what they did and what"},{"startTime":2217.93,"endTime":2220.985,"body":"positions they took in order to, you"},{"startTime":2217.93,"endTime":2220.985,"body":"know, In order to make those claims,"},{"startTime":2221.245,"endTime":2226.705,"body":"one thing you mentioned to me, James,"},{"startTime":2221.245,"endTime":2226.705,"body":"and, and, uh, uh, conversation was, um,"},{"startTime":2226.935,"endTime":2228.845,"body":"the, the joint committee on taxation."},{"startTime":2229.155,"endTime":2233.505,"body":"Um, and it was something I hadn't even"},{"startTime":2229.155,"endTime":2233.505,"body":"heard of prior to this refund claim."},{"startTime":2233.535,"endTime":2237.505,"body":"Um, uh, what is that and,"},{"startTime":2233.535,"endTime":2237.505,"body":"and how does it work?"},{"startTime":2237.505,"endTime":2241.725,"body":"And what impact does that have on,"},{"startTime":2237.505,"endTime":2241.725,"body":"on say the true leave, uh, refund?"},{"startTime":2243.265,"endTime":2250.435,"body":"Well, the Joint Committee on Taxation,"},{"startTime":2243.265,"endTime":2250.435,"body":"as the name suggests, is a joint"},{"startTime":2250.435,"endTime":2255.085,"body":"committee of the House and the Senate"},{"startTime":2250.435,"endTime":2255.085,"body":"of, like, tax staff and tax writers in"},{"startTime":2255.085,"endTime":2262.265,"body":"both, in both chambers, and the Joint"},{"startTime":2255.085,"endTime":2262.265,"body":"Committee on Taxation has to approve"},{"startTime":2263.535,"endTime":2269.285,"body":"refunds issued by the IRS of more than"},{"startTime":2263.535,"endTime":2269.285,"body":"2 million in the case of an individual"},{"startTime":2269.285,"endTime":2275.76,"body":"taxpayer and 5 In the case of corporate"},{"startTime":2269.285,"endTime":2275.76,"body":"taxpayer, so the IRS has to write up"},{"startTime":2275.76,"endTime":2278.06,"body":"like a little report to send to the J."},{"startTime":2278.06,"endTime":2278.24,"body":"C."},{"startTime":2278.24,"endTime":2278.45,"body":"T."},{"startTime":2278.45,"endTime":2281.73,"body":"saying, here's what we intend"},{"startTime":2278.45,"endTime":2281.73,"body":"to refund to this taxpayer."},{"startTime":2281.73,"endTime":2282.76,"body":"And here's why."},{"startTime":2283.26,"endTime":2286.83,"body":"And there's at least a"},{"startTime":2283.26,"endTime":2286.83,"body":"30 day review by the J."},{"startTime":2286.83,"endTime":2287.09,"body":"C."},{"startTime":2287.09,"endTime":2287.5,"body":"T."},{"startTime":2288.06,"endTime":2293.41,"body":"which could not possibly have"},{"startTime":2288.06,"endTime":2293.41,"body":"occurred with truly right?"},{"startTime":2293.41,"endTime":2293.77,"body":"The J."},{"startTime":2293.77,"endTime":2293.96,"body":"C."},{"startTime":2293.96,"endTime":2294.19,"body":"T."},{"startTime":2294.2,"endTime":2297.84,"body":"isn't going to say, oh, yeah, just"},{"startTime":2294.2,"endTime":2297.84,"body":"give back all this money because"},{"startTime":2297.84,"endTime":2299.84,"body":"we believe to 80 isn't valid."},{"startTime":2299.85,"endTime":2300.13,"body":"That."},{"startTime":2300.69,"endTime":2302.66,"body":"That doesn't seem right somehow."},{"startTime":2302.7,"endTime":2303.11,"body":"And"},{"startTime":2307.05,"endTime":2312.66,"body":"so it sounds like if, if I sort of pull"},{"startTime":2307.05,"endTime":2312.66,"body":"back on the stick and go, you know, kind"},{"startTime":2312.66,"endTime":2318.15,"body":"of high altitude on the truly of opinion,"},{"startTime":2312.66,"endTime":2318.15,"body":"it sounds like what they most likely did"},{"startTime":2318.16,"endTime":2320.16,"body":"was they got a reasonable basis opinion."},{"startTime":2320.88,"endTime":2327.39,"body":"To claim refunds, it seems like"},{"startTime":2320.88,"endTime":2327.39,"body":"they were able to get a return of"},{"startTime":2327.54,"endTime":2331.16,"body":"the estimated probably were able to"},{"startTime":2327.54,"endTime":2331.16,"body":"get a return of the estimated tax"},{"startTime":2331.16,"endTime":2338.53,"body":"payments they've made for 2023 and"},{"startTime":2331.16,"endTime":2338.53,"body":"2024 thus far and but it probably is."},{"startTime":2339.14,"endTime":2343.61,"body":"A stretch to say that they obtained"},{"startTime":2339.14,"endTime":2343.61,"body":"some sort of favorable ruling by"},{"startTime":2343.61,"endTime":2348.27,"body":"the IRS that, uh, 280E doesn't,"},{"startTime":2343.61,"endTime":2348.27,"body":"that 280E doesn't apply to them."},{"startTime":2348.79,"endTime":2353.66,"body":"It sounds like what they got was much"},{"startTime":2348.79,"endTime":2353.66,"body":"more of a procedural, um, return of"},{"startTime":2353.67,"endTime":2357.2,"body":"money as opposed to some substantive"},{"startTime":2353.67,"endTime":2357.2,"body":"review by the government that they"},{"startTime":2357.2,"endTime":2358.89,"body":"have a decent claim to get it back."},{"startTime":2359.58,"endTime":2360.67,"body":"Does that sound right to you?"},{"startTime":2361.68,"endTime":2363.6,"body":"That's my guess, but it's only a guess."},{"startTime":2363.65,"endTime":2364.4,"body":"They aren't saying."},{"startTime":2364.49,"endTime":2364.87,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":2365.24,"endTime":2365.74,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2367.7,"endTime":2369.54,"body":"Um, well, it's very interesting."},{"startTime":2369.54,"endTime":2374.88,"body":"I mean, this is, this is, uh, you"},{"startTime":2369.54,"endTime":2374.88,"body":"know, 280E is all people have been"},{"startTime":2374.88,"endTime":2379.04,"body":"talking about in the cannabis industry"},{"startTime":2374.88,"endTime":2379.04,"body":"for the last month and change, and,"},{"startTime":2379.04,"endTime":2381.84,"body":"uh, I don't think we're going to"},{"startTime":2379.04,"endTime":2381.84,"body":"stop talking about it going forward."},{"startTime":2382.26,"endTime":2384.05,"body":"So, uh, let's finish up with this."},{"startTime":2384.17,"endTime":2391.565,"body":"Um, in terms of, um, You know,"},{"startTime":2384.17,"endTime":2391.565,"body":"James or Adam with with everything"},{"startTime":2391.565,"endTime":2395.495,"body":"we just talked about, you know,"},{"startTime":2391.565,"endTime":2395.495,"body":"what are what are people doing now?"},{"startTime":2395.555,"endTime":2400.365,"body":"In other words, uh, the rescheduling"},{"startTime":2395.555,"endTime":2400.365,"body":"announcements happened to leave the,"},{"startTime":2400.625,"endTime":2402.485,"body":"you know, issued their press release."},{"startTime":2402.775,"endTime":2404.945,"body":"So, the truly stuff is sort of old to 80."},{"startTime":2404.965,"endTime":2408.815,"body":"I kind of look at it and the rescheduling"},{"startTime":2404.965,"endTime":2408.815,"body":"will be new to 80 going forward"},{"startTime":2408.815,"endTime":2410.285,"body":"if and when rescheduling happens."},{"startTime":2410.985,"endTime":2416.475,"body":"So if you're a taxpayer, um, what are"},{"startTime":2410.985,"endTime":2416.475,"body":"you supposed to take out of all this?"},{"startTime":2416.475,"endTime":2417.125,"body":"What are you supposed to do?"},{"startTime":2420.045,"endTime":2425.355,"body":"You know, I, I think we, for a taxpayer,"},{"startTime":2420.045,"endTime":2425.355,"body":"you kind of carry on as you've been doing."},{"startTime":2425.715,"endTime":2433.305,"body":"Um, I, I don't think anything changes with"},{"startTime":2425.715,"endTime":2433.305,"body":"the ordinary necessary business expenses"},{"startTime":2433.315,"endTime":2437.305,"body":"subject to you getting a reasonable basis"},{"startTime":2433.315,"endTime":2437.305,"body":"opinion letter from someone like James."},{"startTime":2437.705,"endTime":2442.285,"body":"Um, and, but if it is in fact changes."},{"startTime":2442.75,"endTime":2444.53,"body":"I think that changes a lot of things."},{"startTime":2444.64,"endTime":2450.9,"body":"I think that changes how some structures"},{"startTime":2444.64,"endTime":2450.9,"body":"are going to, how we're going to"},{"startTime":2450.9,"endTime":2455.83,"body":"structure some of these in the future,"},{"startTime":2450.9,"endTime":2455.83,"body":"how we might be changing structures for"},{"startTime":2455.85,"endTime":2458.3,"body":"entities that we've already created."},{"startTime":2458.73,"endTime":2463.91,"body":"Maybe the ones that we've had separated,"},{"startTime":2458.73,"endTime":2463.91,"body":"we're going to be determining whether"},{"startTime":2463.91,"endTime":2468.11,"body":"we're going to put it under a C corp"},{"startTime":2463.91,"endTime":2468.11,"body":"or a pass through or really just how"},{"startTime":2468.14,"endTime":2473.49,"body":"we're going to combine these without"},{"startTime":2468.14,"endTime":2473.49,"body":"other non 280 e tax related issues."},{"startTime":2474.46,"endTime":2480.54,"body":"I've also heard, which I found"},{"startTime":2474.46,"endTime":2480.54,"body":"interesting, is that if, if 280E goes"},{"startTime":2480.54,"endTime":2487.23,"body":"away, I think we're going to see a lot"},{"startTime":2480.54,"endTime":2487.23,"body":"more investment within cannabis as well."},{"startTime":2487.49,"endTime":2491.36,"body":"I was, I was talking with somebody"},{"startTime":2487.49,"endTime":2491.36,"body":"who said that their research and"},{"startTime":2491.36,"endTime":2495.58,"body":"development costs are going to go, are"},{"startTime":2491.36,"endTime":2495.58,"body":"potentially going to go through the roof."},{"startTime":2495.61,"endTime":2501.185,"body":"I, I, It seems logical that after"},{"startTime":2495.61,"endTime":2501.185,"body":"280 goes away, we're going to"},{"startTime":2501.195,"endTime":2505.305,"body":"have human research for cannabis"},{"startTime":2501.195,"endTime":2505.305,"body":"on and testing different strains."},{"startTime":2505.345,"endTime":2505.905,"body":"Um."},{"startTime":2506.405,"endTime":2510.645,"body":"And and that's going to be a"},{"startTime":2506.405,"endTime":2510.645,"body":"perfectly reasonable deduction."},{"startTime":2510.685,"endTime":2515.095,"body":"I don't know if James has an opinion on"},{"startTime":2510.685,"endTime":2515.095,"body":"that subject, but I would think that."},{"startTime":2515.525,"endTime":2517.935,"body":"Just more money is going"},{"startTime":2515.525,"endTime":2517.935,"body":"to flow into this now."},{"startTime":2519.865,"endTime":2520.195,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":2520.245,"endTime":2520.855,"body":"I agree."},{"startTime":2520.885,"endTime":2524.485,"body":"And, uh, you know, they can apply for."},{"startTime":2525.765,"endTime":2528.005,"body":"Various kinds of employer"},{"startTime":2525.765,"endTime":2528.005,"body":"credits that they."},{"startTime":2528.265,"endTime":2532.195,"body":"Couldn't before, and another thing I was"},{"startTime":2528.265,"endTime":2532.195,"body":"thinking about the other day is that."},{"startTime":2533.065,"endTime":2540.575,"body":"The IRS says that to 80 taxpayers"},{"startTime":2533.065,"endTime":2540.575,"body":"are not under 263 cafe, which is the"},{"startTime":2540.585,"endTime":2546.095,"body":"big unit cap, how you calculate cost"},{"startTime":2540.585,"endTime":2546.095,"body":"of good sold for a technical reason."},{"startTime":2546.525,"endTime":2548.975,"body":"But if 2 80 goes away, all of a sudden."},{"startTime":2549.28,"endTime":2552.82,"body":"Then they're back under"},{"startTime":2549.28,"endTime":2552.82,"body":"calculating possible good soul"},{"startTime":2552.82,"endTime":2554.01,"body":"the way everyone else does."},{"startTime":2554.22,"endTime":2558.39,"body":"There are a lot of things that would occur"},{"startTime":2554.22,"endTime":2558.39,"body":"and you sort of need to think through"},{"startTime":2558.99,"endTime":2562.44,"body":"a lot of what a lot of what's going on."},{"startTime":2563.91,"endTime":2570.49,"body":"Yeah, I mean, it strikes me that, you"},{"startTime":2563.91,"endTime":2570.49,"body":"know, um, uh, 2 80 is 1 of these things."},{"startTime":2570.49,"endTime":2574.51,"body":"It's so significant from a tax"},{"startTime":2570.49,"endTime":2574.51,"body":"perspective that it's sort of like, uh."},{"startTime":2575.33,"endTime":2579.92,"body":"Like a, a 1 note instrument"},{"startTime":2575.33,"endTime":2579.92,"body":"for, for cannabis taxpayers,"},{"startTime":2579.92,"endTime":2581.88,"body":"it's all it's all about 2 80."},{"startTime":2581.88,"endTime":2584.93,"body":"and now they have to start"},{"startTime":2581.88,"endTime":2584.93,"body":"thinking about, you know, playing"},{"startTime":2584.93,"endTime":2585.91,"body":"the rest of the instrument."},{"startTime":2585.94,"endTime":2591.87,"body":"I mean, it, you know, I think, uh,"},{"startTime":2585.94,"endTime":2591.87,"body":"people can, can look at accelerated"},{"startTime":2591.88,"endTime":2596.85,"body":"depreciation analysis on their cultivation"},{"startTime":2591.88,"endTime":2596.85,"body":"facility, for example, and, and, and"},{"startTime":2596.86,"endTime":2602.235,"body":"they can, you know, They can now deduct"},{"startTime":2596.86,"endTime":2602.235,"body":"salaries, so I wouldn't be surprised"},{"startTime":2602.245,"endTime":2606.695,"body":"to see C suite salaries actually go"},{"startTime":2602.245,"endTime":2606.695,"body":"up as people start realizing that"},{"startTime":2606.695,"endTime":2610.855,"body":"they have to do more sophisticated"},{"startTime":2606.695,"endTime":2610.855,"body":"tax planning and and implementing"},{"startTime":2610.925,"endTime":2612.515,"body":"more sophisticated legal structures."},{"startTime":2612.905,"endTime":2615.865,"body":"Uh, so I could see them actually spending"},{"startTime":2612.905,"endTime":2615.865,"body":"a little bit more on their C suite"},{"startTime":2615.875,"endTime":2621.045,"body":"for finance professionals, accounting"},{"startTime":2615.875,"endTime":2621.045,"body":"professionals, lawyers to kind of help"},{"startTime":2621.105,"endTime":2627.97,"body":"move them from this sort of, uh, very"},{"startTime":2621.105,"endTime":2627.97,"body":"1 dimensional, uh, Uh organization"},{"startTime":2627.98,"endTime":2632.15,"body":"all centered around dealing with"},{"startTime":2627.98,"endTime":2632.15,"body":"280e to a much more three dimensional"},{"startTime":2632.15,"endTime":2636.94,"body":"organization like their non cannabis"},{"startTime":2632.15,"endTime":2636.94,"body":"neighbors, so Uh, I don't you know,"},{"startTime":2636.94,"endTime":2641.0,"body":"I suspect that the larger cannabis"},{"startTime":2636.94,"endTime":2641.0,"body":"taxpayers are going to start thinking"},{"startTime":2641.0,"endTime":2644.3,"body":"about that sooner rather than later"},{"startTime":2641.0,"endTime":2644.3,"body":"Because as you mentioned earlier james"},{"startTime":2644.86,"endTime":2649.29,"body":"that's Not, you know, you're not going"},{"startTime":2644.86,"endTime":2649.29,"body":"to turn that ship on a dime, right?"},{"startTime":2649.29,"endTime":2653.15,"body":"I mean, that's a Probably a lot of work"},{"startTime":2649.29,"endTime":2653.15,"body":"is going to go into making that shift."},{"startTime":2653.26,"endTime":2658.31,"body":"Uh, and it, it probably doesn't"},{"startTime":2653.26,"endTime":2658.31,"body":"happen, you know, on immediately as"},{"startTime":2658.31,"endTime":2660.11,"body":"soon as rescheduling goes into effect."},{"startTime":2661.14,"endTime":2664.58,"body":"Any, uh, any parting thoughts"},{"startTime":2661.14,"endTime":2664.58,"body":"before we, uh, we wrap up guys?"},{"startTime":2664.61,"endTime":2667.68,"body":"I appreciate you hanging out with"},{"startTime":2664.61,"endTime":2667.68,"body":"me for the last 30 minutes or so."},{"startTime":2671.305,"endTime":2672.265,"body":"Thanks for having us."},{"startTime":2672.385,"endTime":2677.425,"body":"Um, you know, one thing about the two,"},{"startTime":2672.385,"endTime":2677.425,"body":"sort of the rescheduling is, I think it's"},{"startTime":2677.495,"endTime":2682.885,"body":"really important for all taxpayers, uh,"},{"startTime":2677.495,"endTime":2682.885,"body":"and all these entities to, to really just"},{"startTime":2682.925,"endTime":2689.495,"body":"understand that this doesn't get rid of"},{"startTime":2682.925,"endTime":2689.495,"body":"every, every prohibition for cannabis."},{"startTime":2689.875,"endTime":2693.385,"body":"I had a, I had a taxpayer that asked"},{"startTime":2689.875,"endTime":2693.385,"body":"me, Oh, well, you know, we're a large"},{"startTime":2693.405,"endTime":2698.575,"body":"cannabis, we're a large operating, uh,"},{"startTime":2693.405,"endTime":2698.575,"body":"company operating in six different states."},{"startTime":2698.585,"endTime":2699.435,"body":"Can I now."},{"startTime":2699.86,"endTime":2702.94,"body":"lie some cannabis from"},{"startTime":2699.86,"endTime":2702.94,"body":"one state to another one."},{"startTime":2703.19,"endTime":2706.16,"body":"No, you know that that doesn't change."},{"startTime":2706.58,"endTime":2708.13,"body":"Um, that is under a different law."},{"startTime":2708.21,"endTime":2712.96,"body":"So I think, you know, really,"},{"startTime":2708.21,"endTime":2712.96,"body":"we're really advocating and for"},{"startTime":2712.98,"endTime":2717.43,"body":"our taxpayers and our clients to"},{"startTime":2712.98,"endTime":2717.43,"body":"understand what does reschedule?"},{"startTime":2717.5,"endTime":2719.695,"body":"If it's rescheduled, what"},{"startTime":2717.5,"endTime":2719.695,"body":"does it actually change?"},{"startTime":2719.695,"endTime":2721.672,"body":"Because it's not going"},{"startTime":2719.695,"endTime":2721.672,"body":"to change everything."},{"startTime":2721.672,"endTime":2725.344,"body":"Well, it really doesn't change anything"},{"startTime":2721.672,"endTime":2725.344,"body":"in the near term other than 288."},{"startTime":2727.585,"endTime":2733.675,"body":"I mean, it's, it's, uh, it, it, it, you"},{"startTime":2727.585,"endTime":2733.675,"body":"know, schedule 1 to schedule 3, it's"},{"startTime":2733.685,"endTime":2741.655,"body":"still illegal to, uh, to, to, to, um,"},{"startTime":2733.685,"endTime":2741.655,"body":"cultivate, manufacture, distribute, and"},{"startTime":2741.655,"endTime":2745.635,"body":"purchase schedule 3, um, schedule 3 drugs."},{"startTime":2746.065,"endTime":2749.575,"body":"It's just, uh, schedule 3"},{"startTime":2746.065,"endTime":2749.575,"body":"drugs have a medical benefit."},{"startTime":2750.035,"endTime":2752.925,"body":"You can, you can get"},{"startTime":2750.035,"endTime":2752.925,"body":"them with a prescription."},{"startTime":2753.355,"endTime":2756.465,"body":"Pharmaceutical companies can sell"},{"startTime":2753.355,"endTime":2756.465,"body":"them with a prescription, but,"},{"startTime":2756.935,"endTime":2763.535,"body":"um, none of our cannabis, no, no"},{"startTime":2756.935,"endTime":2763.535,"body":"cannabis company is, uh, is, is, is"},{"startTime":2763.535,"endTime":2767.325,"body":"a pharmaceutical company and, and is"},{"startTime":2763.535,"endTime":2767.325,"body":"compliant with that regulatory regime."},{"startTime":2767.335,"endTime":2769.145,"body":"In fact, it's not possible"},{"startTime":2767.335,"endTime":2769.145,"body":"for them to do that."},{"startTime":2769.465,"endTime":2772.875,"body":"As far as I know, there are"},{"startTime":2769.465,"endTime":2772.875,"body":"people getting prescriptions for."},{"startTime":2773.35,"endTime":2775.96,"body":"For medical cannabis in certain states."},{"startTime":2776.12,"endTime":2782.08,"body":"So in that sense, arguably, uh, they,"},{"startTime":2776.12,"endTime":2782.08,"body":"they, uh, on that end of the transaction,"},{"startTime":2782.58,"endTime":2787.73,"body":"they, they may, they may have a better"},{"startTime":2782.58,"endTime":2787.73,"body":"argument vis a vis, uh, uh, violations"},{"startTime":2787.73,"endTime":2792.57,"body":"of federal law, but nobody's, you know,"},{"startTime":2787.73,"endTime":2792.57,"body":"the DEA is not out there arresting people"},{"startTime":2792.64,"endTime":2796.18,"body":"buying dispensary right now anyway."},{"startTime":2796.31,"endTime":2801.35,"body":"So I don't really think the, the lay of"},{"startTime":2796.31,"endTime":2801.35,"body":"the land changes, uh, in the near term."},{"startTime":2801.565,"endTime":2806.775,"body":"Other than 280E, but I think it's also"},{"startTime":2801.565,"endTime":2806.775,"body":"important to, to, to point out that"},{"startTime":2807.075,"endTime":2812.445,"body":"this is the first substantive change"},{"startTime":2807.075,"endTime":2812.445,"body":"in federal marijuana law in 54 years."},{"startTime":2812.575,"endTime":2816.595,"body":"So that, that you can't really"},{"startTime":2812.575,"endTime":2816.595,"body":"overstate that significance."},{"startTime":2816.605,"endTime":2823.77,"body":"It's, it, to me, it means it's likely,"},{"startTime":2816.605,"endTime":2823.77,"body":"That there is some, um, additional"},{"startTime":2823.83,"endTime":2828.99,"body":"relaxation of rules that's going to come"},{"startTime":2823.83,"endTime":2828.99,"body":"from, uh, you know, not immediately,"},{"startTime":2828.99,"endTime":2833.98,"body":"and maybe not even in a year, but"},{"startTime":2828.99,"endTime":2833.98,"body":"over time, it should hopefully usher"},{"startTime":2833.98,"endTime":2839.52,"body":"in some additional relaxation of"},{"startTime":2833.98,"endTime":2839.52,"body":"rules, whether it's on the banking"},{"startTime":2839.52,"endTime":2842.59,"body":"side, um, or even capital markets."},{"startTime":2842.6,"endTime":2848.02,"body":"Some of the things we talked about"},{"startTime":2842.6,"endTime":2848.02,"body":"earlier, uh, and for for later podcasts,"},{"startTime":2848.04,"endTime":2849.88,"body":"we can talk about other things, like."},{"startTime":2850.295,"endTime":2854.135,"body":"Restructuring because you all know"},{"startTime":2850.295,"endTime":2854.135,"body":"cannabis companies can't go bankrupt"},{"startTime":2854.135,"endTime":2859.275,"body":"and we're, we're likely going to have"},{"startTime":2854.135,"endTime":2859.275,"body":"a conversation about that topic soon."},{"startTime":2859.625,"endTime":2866.715,"body":"Um, and, uh, you know, uh, interstate"},{"startTime":2859.625,"endTime":2866.715,"body":"commerce interstate commerce is"},{"startTime":2867.105,"endTime":2870.235,"body":"something that people always have"},{"startTime":2867.105,"endTime":2870.235,"body":"on the back of their minds as well."},{"startTime":2870.235,"endTime":2873.255,"body":"At some point in time, we're"},{"startTime":2870.235,"endTime":2873.255,"body":"likely to see a world where"},{"startTime":2873.255,"endTime":2874.695,"body":"interstate commerce is permitted."},{"startTime":2875.075,"endTime":2880.205,"body":"But right now, that's, uh, it's"},{"startTime":2875.075,"endTime":2880.205,"body":"really not permitted under any of the."},{"startTime":2880.48,"endTime":2883.94,"body":"Any of the, uh, state"},{"startTime":2880.48,"endTime":2883.94,"body":"legal marijuana regimes."},{"startTime":2884.56,"endTime":2886.7,"body":"Uh, you have anything to add"},{"startTime":2884.56,"endTime":2886.7,"body":"James before we sign off?"},{"startTime":2888.33,"endTime":2894.09,"body":"Um, no, except maybe 1 thing people ought"},{"startTime":2888.33,"endTime":2894.09,"body":"to think about in terms of rescheduling"},{"startTime":2894.09,"endTime":2897.45,"body":"is, it is rescheduling forever."},{"startTime":2897.67,"endTime":2900.55,"body":"Things might happen in"},{"startTime":2897.67,"endTime":2900.55,"body":"November that cast doubt on it."},{"startTime":2900.88,"endTime":2903.82,"body":"So there are a lot of moving pieces here."},{"startTime":2903.85,"endTime":2905.28,"body":"There's no question about it."},{"startTime":2908.12,"endTime":2910.49,"body":"Well, we don't need to talk, we"},{"startTime":2908.12,"endTime":2910.49,"body":"don't need to become political"},{"startTime":2910.49,"endTime":2912.89,"body":"analysts, but, uh, yes, that's true."},{"startTime":2912.89,"endTime":2917.42,"body":"There's a, I heard there's a election"},{"startTime":2912.89,"endTime":2917.42,"body":"coming up in November, which, uh, uh,"},{"startTime":2917.66,"endTime":2921.47,"body":"could potentially impact things, but, uh,"},{"startTime":2917.66,"endTime":2921.47,"body":"let's, let's save that for a later day."},{"startTime":2921.47,"endTime":2924.68,"body":"Hey Adam, thank you very much"},{"startTime":2921.47,"endTime":2924.68,"body":"for signing in from Chicago."},{"startTime":2924.68,"endTime":2926.09,"body":"James, thank you very much."},{"startTime":2926.48,"endTime":2930.35,"body":"Uh, thank you Sandra Delight to have"},{"startTime":2926.48,"endTime":2930.35,"body":"you all listening to the Clark Hill"},{"startTime":2930.35,"endTime":2933.98,"body":"Cannabis Industry Group podcast,"},{"startTime":2930.35,"endTime":2933.98,"body":"and we will see you next time."},{"startTime":2934.04,"endTime":2934.82,"body":"Thanks so much."}]}