There were a few stories in the news about working remotely from another country. We talk about the pros and cons of working remotely versus returning to work. We work remotely and are globally distributed, but we've worked for many years in the office to, so we have experience of both to make a fair analysis.
Serverless Craic from The Serverless Edge
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There were a few stories in the news about working remotely from another country. We talk about the pros and cons of working remotely versus returning to work. We work remotely and are globally distributed, but we've worked for many years in the office to, so we have experience of both to make a fair analysis.
Serverless Craic from The Serverless Edge
Check out our book The Value Flywheel Effect
Follow us on X @ServerlessEdge
Follow us on LinkedIn
Subscribe on YouTube
Hey folks, how's it going? Welcome to the next edition of Serverless Craic. How are we going today?
Mark McCann:I've been in the industry for 20 odd years now and I've got the traditional bad back. So we need an episode on how to avoid the pitfalls of sitting at a desk all day.
Dave Anderson:There were a few stories in the news about remote work. Simon Wardley tweeted about returning to physical spaces, and if it will happen or not? So I thought it might be good to talk about the pros and cons of working remotely versus returning to work? We work remotel, but we've worked for many years in the office so we have experience of both to make a fair analysis.
Mark McCann:It's topical. Everyone worked from home during the pandemic. Post pandemic there are different factors at play. It's a topic of conversation that's bubbling up. It's a contentious topic, for sure.
Dave Anderson:It goes without saying that we're not talking about any individual company. We're talking in general, because we do talk to loads of people who are working for different companies. Going on personal experience, I will go through a list of criteria. Remote versus in office, what do you think about team dynamics? Is it better or worse, working remotely or is it not impacted at all.
Michael O'Reilly:You have to acknowledge it's different. But is it different good or different bad? You must accommodate when you're remote. Managing calendars is a big one. You must get ahead of your calendar and block off space that you genuinely need, even for social things like a chat or getting work done You need time to reach out and talk to people. So you must protect that space and time. In the office, it's easier to go and tap someone on the shoulder. But in the office, there were times when we were working and we did not want people tapping us. We used to talk about trialing, turning a light red when we were really busy. When you're remote, you do the same thing, by checking someone's slack or zoom status and you can ping them async when you have time for a chat. I look forward to team get togethers now I'm remote and I make more of an effort.
Mark McCann:There is more collaboration and interaction in the team because we are only a Slack or Teams message away. And communication is regular and consistent compared with bumping into somebody in the elevator.
Dave Anderson:I remember sitting in a bay with your team. If your team was good crack it was great fun, but you wouldn't get you work done. But if you had work to do, it was a nightmare. When COVID started, we checked in every morning as a
Mark McCann:There's more opportunity to grow a dynamic, team. That was a nice practice. I don't believe that the only good team dynamic is in the office. diverse and globally distributed team than ever.
Dave Anderson:It's a lot harder to have a 'click' when you are remote first. Remember people sneaking off for coffee or creeping around.
Mark McCann:There used to be an unfair advantage advantage that smokers had from meeting and having side conversations.
Dave Anderson:Smoking is a big sacrifice for promotion. The next one is 'whiteboarding'. I liked carrying a pen and writing on the whiteboard because I am visual. And then people would say, every time I go in the office, you've written some crap up on the wall. But I struggled without that. But I have a bit of paper in front of me where I can scribble to help me think. And we have Lucid and Miro.
Mark McCann:The emergence ofonline collaboration tools has been a godsend. All the tools now have whiteboarding capability for team collaboration, better documentation and remote collaboration. Multiple people updatig the same diagram, architecture or data flow, is a game changer. Even in the office using a MIRO board and online collaboration was a better way of capturing what everyone was thinking in that moment. And you could also keep it afterwards. With whiteboards, it was a burden to take a picture and transcribe it.
Michael O'Reilly:Go to Google Drive pre pandemic, and search for whiteboards and it'll be full of pictures of whiteboards.
Dave Anderson:What about the confidence to participate? If we are sitting with a team, and drawing on the whiteboard, it's unlikely that junior engineers ask about it. But with Lucid elicit everyone throws ideas in. So it's a level playing field.
Michael O'Reilly:When you're in the office, it's easier to hold people's attention. If you're on a whiteboard, they're actually present and not distracted by another window, or reading or an email or slack. When you're working remote on Zoom, it can be a challenge for any facilitator. But you can navigate it with good facilitation. If you go into your session, say that you want to take two hours of their time as a group and use it effectively. So you need everyone's attention and focus. If we're doing event storming, I ask everyone to keep their camera on. I'll keep Zoom with all the faces on one side and I will have a chart on the other side. And you can still judge reactions. If anyone needs to leave to go then switch it off, so everyone knows you are not participating.
Dave Anderson:Workshop etiquette is much better. I remember planning an event storming took time. Now we can do event stoming with an hour's notice as everyone can log on.
Mark McCann:It used to be a big overhead trying to schedule people, resources and time. Now it's spontaneous. We also have compelling base templates. In the past, you spent ages getting the room set up with the correct words on the board. Now in seconds you are productive and in the meat of what you're trying to achieve, which is a game changer.
Dave Anderson:Lets get into the environment. What about your relationship with you rmanager? In teams you would have your manager sitting with you in the bay, and they could see what you were doing. But remotely, it's probably a weekly check in, which is a different dynamic.
Mark McCann:It's challenging when people need a hand if they're struggling. Some of those signals are weaker.
Dave Anderson:I think it's harder for managers, because a lot of managers work on 'spidey sense'. Because in the office they see if someone is always getying cups of coffee and they are not working.
Michael O'Reilly:In the office, you are in for a fixed amount of time. If there is an issue it's easier to escalate before you leave. Whereas if you're at home you could take a few extra hours or procrastinate for longer. It is harder, particularly for a manager, to work out where people are and what they're at.
Mark McCann:For junior people are they receiving the right mentorship and seeing how others do things? So you must double down in collaboration and learning sessions to bring them on in that way instead.
Dave Anderson:I understand when you say it's harder for junior people, but I think it's just different. You will not get the experience we had starting off. You will get a different experience. We don't know if it's better or worse yet. Like any mentorship, it depends on the mentor.
Mark McCann:People are generally getting better at articulating what they're trying to achieve and document what they're doing. Async communication mechanisms are much better and people are writing stuff down more than ever.
Dave Anderson:Less stuff in people's heads. What about work life balance? Don't say we work less or we will get in trouble.
Mark McCann:It's better to work remotely. You can do things at home that you would put off, when you were in the office and you were home at six o'clock or after your commute. You're seeing your kids more and you're able to balance work. But there's a double edged sword because at home, you need to be disciplined about separation of work and life. Because you can do another half an hour, answer emails, respond to that Slack message or check out that last line of code. That extra half an hours add up. We need discipline and separation.
Michael O'Reilly:It is harder to switch off. It's important to not look atcertain apps on your phone so that when you leave your office space, you are in offline mode. You are in life mode, as opposed to work mode. It's a big challenge. I worked long hours in the office and had an hour commute afterwards. Now I put the same hours in at home, but I don't have a commute, which is better.
Dave Anderson:People say that when they stop work they go for a 10 minute walk back to clear their head. So the commute worked to clear your head. Without the commute, you get two hours back but don't use those two hours to work. Go for a walk
Mark McCann:We're experienced in our careers. And we run instead. houses etc. But people have different scenarios. So the work life balance is different for others. But for those who are more junior they maybe living in shared accommodation or in a rented place.
Dave Anderson:What about organisational belonging? Because when you go in the office, you see people, the brands on the wall and you feel you're part of the organisation. At home, you're just looking at a laptop. We make a joke, when you change companies, it's just different faces on the Zoom call!
Mark McCann:Organisations need to focus on there clarity of purpose or mission, and ensuting it's articulated to the people who work there. You must get your employees to buy into that mission, for that purpose. Because the paraphernalia of the office environment and brand signals are not available at home.
Dave Anderson:You should like the people you work with, and the thing you're working toward. Silly things like nice coffee, seats, desks, or a view from the window, are all gone.
Michael O'Reilly:It's Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Look after people's basic stuff. But when you work for a company, you must relish the challenge and the work must motivate you. As an individual you want to develop, learn and progress and satisfy your ambition. When you're young you can get caught up in the wrong things and not think objectively about stuff. When you're remote, you are more clear and focused on what you are doing. if it is not challenging, or you are not enjoying it, you see it quicker. If you're in the office, and everyone's having great crack, or feeling like you are part of a big family, it might take a bit longer to see reality.
Dave Anderson:What about deep work. If you're writing or coding, is remote or the office better?
Michael O'Reilly:When you're in the office, it can be hard to protect your space sometimes. There are ways of doing that in the office like putting your headphones or your lights on. What distracts me at home is what's in the fridge or game consoles! You have to be disciplined and introduce natural breaks to make sure you're not overwhelmed.
Mark McCann:There are more options for finding the right space to do deep work than in the office. There's a limited number of places or rooms you can book.
Dave Anderson:Before laptops and headphones I remember trying to find a quiet time in the morning for an hour before people would start to ask me questions. Or putting on phone headsets so you wouldn't be disturbed. When that stopped working I would sneak to a coffee shop. But then you felt like you were sneaking out of the office. Now you are remote, you can choose where to work. It's olay if I want to work from a coffee shop for peace and quiet. You have the choice when you're in the office, there's a wee bit of guilt. Do you think executives are happier working remotely or in the office?
Mark McCann:It depends on what they're measuring or what outcomes they're trying to achieve. Some like status symbols such as the corner office stuff. But hopefully, that's on the wane. What impact can they have? Can they measure the impact of their teams? Are they increasing their outcomes and goals? Is that harder for them when it's done in the
Dave Anderson:It's a lifestyle thing. Some executives travel a
Michael O'Reilly:We work with execs quite a bit. But the gaps office? lot so it is easier having flexibility and not having to in between the executive conversations can be big rush into the office for half an hour. Now, if you need to meet someone, you don't have to fly, it's okay to meet over Zoom. Five years ago it would have been bad craic to meet an executive on Zoom. You had to go to them. So maybe there's more sometimes. It's good to assemble as a team physically, in a collaboration with executives now. What about sustainability? shared space, for face to face sessions. But a lot of our conversations are about going through numbers, metrics or trends.
Mark McCann:Remote work is more sustainable. Simon Wardley talks the virtual miles you are saving If you had a zoom call with five people who are distributed globally, how many flights, air miles, taxi rides and hotel rooms would be engaged to enable that conversation in person? You should take those virtual miles into account when you're thinking about remote work or online collaboration. You are saving carbon and money.
Dave Anderson:it would be interesting to see the statistics on the reduction of flights and petrol. It's not going to go back to pre pandemic normal. But there must be less cars on the road. I know there is less wear on my bike tyre from not cycling to work!
Michael O'Reilly:During the pandemic, we functioned well, I used to travel quite a bit. There are times when it's good to be in a room face to face, particularly if you're making big decisions, and you need to spend time together to work better.But for the majority of things, when I'm travelling I wonder if I need to do this or be there? It's the first question you ask yourself now. Could I just do this as a remote working session? Most times, they're more effective anyway. And you can switch off the end of the day as well.
Dave Anderson:Do you have any big revelations to share between working remotely and returning to the office?
Mark McCann:I have experienced both for significant periods of time. I much prefer remote working. It's more healthy with a better work life balance, and I get to see my family more.
Michael O'Reilly:At an individual level, I like remote work. And I didn't think I would. I do like a day a week where I get together with people, and experience the social side. People want options, and you can't go one way or the other. Orgs must support people's needs and come up with the correct strategy. It'se harder organizationally. But individually. I like having options. I am remote first, but, but like the idea of meeting people regularly.
Dave Anderson:It's the same as serverless first and not serverless only. So remote first, but not remote only because you want choice. And you don't have the pressure of everyone being in the office and you are not there. Instead everyone is remote. So if you want to meet up somewhere, you can arrange it. You can be where you want to be.
Mark McCann:There's enough experience, good practices and guides to make it successful, and make it work. If you're not having a good remote first experience, look out for the guidance and advice.
Dave Anderson:That's the craic. I think that was a good discussion. Log onto TheServerlessEdge.com, subscribe to out YouTube channel@Serverless Craic and on X@ServerlessEdge.