Dana Samuelson
Justin: [00:00:00] My guest today has spent over 45 years in the world of precious metals. Dana Samuelson got his start in 1980, spent nearly a decade as a protege of James Blanchard, the man who fought to make it legal again for Americans to own gold, and then went on to found American Gold Exchange in 1998, where as president, he's overseeing close to $2 billion in transactions.
Justin: Dana is based in Austin, Texas. Dana, welcome to the Money Dad Podcast.
Dana: Hi, Justin. Uh, it's great to be here with you. Thanks for having me.
Justin: Fantastic to have you on today and, and chat about gold and, and what, you know, we can teach our kids about, and parents about, about real money. . Let's start off with, you know, you've been in precious metals since 1980.
Justin: Take us back to what pulled you in as a young person. You know, was it the history, the economics, or, or just something else that, pulled you into this space?
Dana: Well, I kinda came in through the side door. Uh, it was economics at the time because if you remember, uh, [00:01:00] 1979 and 1980, we had record high inflation.
Dana: Mm-hmm. The economy was doing very badly, and gold and silver prices had gone through the roof at that point in time, , due to inflation. , And I got out of college, , with a German degree in 1980, and I was unhireable, just like almost every college graduate was unhireable in 2009 with any degree- Mm-hmm
Dana: due to the economic circumstances at that point in time, the great financial crisis. Mm-hmm. But I got a job working in a vault at a precious metals company because I could be trusted. My brother worked there as a numismatist, which is really just a fancy word for coin nerd. Uh, he was really good with rare coins, and they needed someone to, to back up their primary vault employee because he was just overworked and overstressed, so they hired me because I could be trusted.
Dana: Mm-hmm. And I literally counted, shipped, and weighed physical precious metals products that we bought from other dealers and over the counter, , for two years [00:02:00] until I got a lucky break and got my job with Jim Blanchard, who had the biggest mail-order coin company in the country at that point in time, because he championed gold, , re-legalization in 1974 and got it done.
Dana: And when it was r- legal to own gold again, which was had been illegal since 1933, people asked Jim, you know, "Where do we buy it?" And Jim said, "Well, I'll sell it to you." So he kinda started a precious metals company by default, and by 1980, he had the biggest one in the country. Mm-hmm. Um, and I ended up going to work for Jim.
Dana: He- they trained me how to appraise vintage US gold and silver coins when our money was based on gold and silver. , And when the buyer would go to trade shows, I would go up to the trading desk and run the inventory position. So I ended up spending, you know, millions of Jim's money in the mid to late '80s, uh, with the industry as a senior trader for the company.
Dana: Mm-hmm. Uh, and I really learned the whole business, you know, [00:03:00] organically from the bottom all the way to the top. And I finally had enough gumption to start my own company in 1998, 'cause I always wanted to be my own boss.
Justin: Yeah.
Dana: And, uh, , started literally right at the bottom of the mar- market pricing cycle.
Dana: 1999, , was when gold hit a low at that point in time, and it's done nothing but run higher since then, , in fits and starts due to different economic circumstances. So it's been a very organic career. I've been very blessed. Yeah. Um, very lucky and, uh, very happy. H-
Justin: how neat is that, to be able to work in a vault counting the physical bullion?
Justin: That, that, that, that sounds like such a cool, uh, start to the whole space. -
Dana: Well, I'm a, I'm a physical dealer and I've literally probably had more gold and silver coins go through my fingers and my eyes than- Yeah ... almost anyone in the US over the last 40 years because of the positions I've held and running my own business.
Justin: Right. Right. Such a [00:04:00] unique perspective. So, you know, you've spent, , a long time helping people understand gold, and, and I wanna focus today on, you know, talking about what parents should be teaching their kids about it, and, and helping them understand it as well. So how do you explain gold to someone who's never owned it?
Justin: So it could be a child, could be, , even a, another parent listening today. How do you explain gold to them? You know, what, what is it really, and what's... why it's valuable?
Dana: Gold is our most, , it's our oldest and most trusted form of money and currency, and money and currency are two different things. Money is something that has value.
Dana: Currency is something we use as a medium of exchange. For most of man's history, from ancient times all the way to the 1930s, , gold was both money and currency. But in 1933, due to economic circumstances following the g- uh, Wall Street crash of '29 and the Great Depression, uh, Franklin Roosevelt wanted [00:05:00] to stimulate the economy then, but it's hard to print more gold.
Dana: You can easily print more paper money. . , And people didn't really trust paper money at that point in time because it was r- you know, fairly new. Been around for f- for 40, 50 years, but still, gold was the choice, silver was the choice. So he made it illegal to own, When the World War II was over, we could no longer go back to a gold-backed monetary system in the true sense of the word where gold and silver were, , trading coins because the gold price had doubled- Mm-hmm
Dana: uh, from 1933 to 1940, basically. , Not quite doubled. It'd gone from $20 an ounce to $35 an ounce, which made- Mm ... all those coins obsolete. So the world had to come up with a new monetary system, , based on paper money, and that was that the dollar would become the world's reserve currency because our manufacturing capacity and our economy was intact after World War II, while most of the other major countries were [00:06:00] decimated by World War II.
Dana: Mm-hmm. So the dollar would become the world's reserve currency, but it would be backed by gold, and we would never print more dollars than we had gold in Fort Knox to back the value of those dollars. Well, of course, politicians make promises. Mm. And during the '60s, Lyndon Johnson made a lot of promises. , , the space shot going to the moon was one.
Dana: , Number two was the Great Society, Medicare, Medicaid, , Social Security, and then inflation. And those things, you know, made the, us print more dollars than we had gold to back it in Fort Knox. So President Nixon in 1971 was forced to break, , the tie between gold and the dollar when he took us off the gold standard, and it's been fiat money or money that's unbacked by anything ever since except for the full faith and credit of the US government.
Dana: Now, what, what gold really has as its most important and alluring [00:07:00] attribute is that its value is internationally recognized, and it has no counterparty risk. The value of gold is not contingent upon a promise or production like, , debt is. If you have a apartment complex that you own, and you have tenants, and you have a mortgage you have to pay, well, your, the mortgage is your responsibility, but the tenants are your counterparty risk.
Dana: If they don't pay the rent, you have to pay the rent for them.
Justin: Right.
Dana: Right? And with stocks, if a company doesn't make, , produce results, profits, , that's counterparty risk for a stockholder. But gold and silver have no counterparty risk. , And, uh, they're universally trusted around the world. , If you have had a country that has had its currency fail- Mm-hmm
Dana: or you've had war on your shores, you have a gold culture because gold is always kind of the universal asset that people go [00:08:00] back to when there's trouble- and for safety. And we've been insulated from that in the United States, , because we're, we're bordered by two big oceans, and we got friendly neighbors on both sides.
Dana: Mm-hmm. And our dollar is the world's reserve currency. So we don't have a gold culture per se like China or India do, which are the two most populous countries on the planet, or Europe, which was decimated by World War II, of course, or Japan, which was decimated by World War II. So, , that's why there's a fundamental lack of education in the United States about precious metals, because we're now three generations removed from having, , the dollar backed by gold, and we're four generations removed from having gold and silver as currency in our- Mm-hmm
Dana: monetary system. And I think the right way to think about this as why gold and silver are attractive as an alternative for savings [00:09:00] to the dollar is this: In 2005, we had $7 trillion in debt. In 2015, we had $17 trillion in debt. In 2025, we had $38 trillion in debt. So our debt has doubled twice in each of the last 10 years.
Dana: And that's primarily because politicians are making more promises for things that they want to support so they can get reelected rather than the amount of, uh, income the coun- the country can take in through taxes or the GDP can produce.
Justin: Mm.
Dana: The world only prints about 2% more gold every year. So the supply of gold is much more finite in reality- Yeah
Dana: than the supply of dollars. And that's why the value of the dollar [00:10:00] increasingly becomes worth less relative to the value of an ounce of gold. And we saw that really, you know, come to bear last year when the gold and silver prices took off- , dramatically, , for a whole host of reasons. You know, you had a great interview with my friend and colleague Da- David Morgan on, , I think it was, , January 21st.
Dana: It's episode number 77. And David's great at covering the basics on precious metals, so anyone that's really interested in this should listen to that interview as well, , 'cause David's great. But this is really the fundamental reason why, you know, gold has value. It's trusted. It's universally accepted.
Dana: No counterparty risk. And it's also immediately liquid when you wanna sell it. You know, in 2009, , if you wanted to borrow money from a bank, you know, bankers would lend money to dead people in 2007 to buy houses, but they wouldn't lend money to anybody- Right. Yeah ... in 2009. And what happened [00:11:00] between 2008 and 2011?
Dana: Well, the gold price doubled while most other assets fell 50% in value, because gold tends to climb a wall of worry, and it's a safe haven asset in times of trouble because it can be trusted, and it has no counterparty risk. But if you had gold then, and say you wanted to buy a rental property, you could sell the gold and be liquid- Mm-hmm
Dana: to come up with the, , money that you could use that a banker might not loan you because they deem the environment too risky. So these are some of the bigger fundamentals of why gold is important, why it's necessary, and, , I really wish that we taught a precious metals culture in this country. , I'm afraid that we might be forced to teach that if our debt just keeps going the way it's going, because it will continue to impact the purchasing power of the dollar, which will lower everyone's, , economic standards.
Justin: ... Out of curiosity, do you ever see a time where- [00:12:00] the US dollar is no longer the reserve currency of the world and we go back to a gold standard? Is that something... I mean, it, it seems remote to me, but do you see a world in that, in a... A- a- and that seems like it could be a very dark world if that ever happened.
Justin: But, uh, do you ever see that case being made?
Dana: Well, it, it's two separate questions, so let's deal with each of them individually. Number one, the, the dollar is the world's reserve currency for a reason. We have the best economy in the world. , We're transparent. We have, , the criteria that - that make the dollar, , usable as the world's reserve currency.
Dana: Number one, we have free flow of money across borders. We have, , market pricing dominated by that free flow. We have the rule of law. , We also have market transparency, and we have a huge credit market, our bond market underpinning all of this. The [00:13:00] euro has that. Japan has that, much smaller scale. China does not.
Dana: You know, they con- they control the fluctuation of their currency. There's no free flow of money over borders. , It's a command and control economy. There's not real good transparency. So the Chinese yuan could potentially be the currency to challenge the dollar as the world's reserve currency. But I don't think that's gonna happen anytime soon or for quite a while.
Dana: , So the dollar will stay the world's reserve currency, and it's embedded in the world's financial systems because it has been the world's reserve currency for, you know, 40, 50 years now. Mm-hmm. And changing out of that into something else is very complicated. So that's, that's the world reserve currency status.
Dana: That doesn't mean the value or the purchasing power of the dollar is gonna continue to be good. In fact, it's gonna continue to lose purchasing power for the reasons we've already mentioned. So it'll stay the world's reserve currency, but it's gonna over [00:14:00] time buy you less and less due to inflation, which is built into the equation.
Dana: The, the governments of the world want inflation, so, , when they pay back the debt that they've accumulated, they actually pay back in cheaper dollars-
Justin: Right ...
Dana: over time. And it's a little complicated to understand, but that's really what the whole formula is. , Now going to a gold standard, I don't think that that's a realistic possibility in the world today, , simply because if we were to try and back a currency either partially or fully with gold, the price of an ounce of gold would be multiples of where it is today at about- Mm-hmm
Dana: $4,700 today. You know, it'd be 10, 12, 15, 25,000 an ounce to do that. Yeah. And I just don't think it's realistic to have that expectation.
Justin: Okay.
Dana: Fair enough. So that's, that's the, that's the other answer to the question.
Justin: Okay. , Families can invest in- a lot of different assets, whether that's equities, bonds, real estate, , , or [00:15:00] gold, right?
Justin: , - as a tool to build wealth, to save. You know, talk to us about how you view gold differently from, let's say, those other asset classes and, and its purpose in a portfolio or, or as a savings tool.
Dana: Well, two, two key words you mentioned, investment or savings. And I think our mindset is fundamentally flawed when we think about gold or silver.
Dana: We think about them as an investment. But really- Hmm ... what they are better as, as a tool for savings. Because it's better to save your hard-earned wealth, a portion of it, in precious metals than it is in dollars, which will lose purchasing power over time. You know, when I was a kid, I remember, you know, 50, 60 years ago, getting my first bank account, putting some money in it, and getting real interest.
Dana: Yeah. So that over time the value of that account grew, and it grew at a great faster than the rate of inflation, [00:16:00] which was a positive yield. You know, you can't do that today with a bank account, get real interest that's gonna make you, , beat inflation. But you can do it with precious metals. You can own gold and silver, and anybody can afford an ounce of silver.
Dana: You know, gold's g- gotten, you know, pricey, but anyone can own some silver and accumulate it. And, you know, it's a little bit harder to go back into dollars because you have to go back to your dealer to sell it to raise the money. Yeah. There's some friction to the buy and the sell spread, , due to the nature of the physicality of the metal itself.
Dana: So it's not a trading vehicle like paper stocks are with very competitive buy/sell spreads. It's a little wider and there's some friction there. So to hold savings over a longer period of time, precious metals are perfect for that. , It's compact, transferable, portable wealth that's easily [00:17:00] recognized among the people that understand it, dealers, precious metals dealers, and other, you know, people that are, uh, educated about them.
Dana: , And it's something you can hold in your hand. Now, I'm friends with Robert Kiyosaki, and I remember when Bitcoin came out, there's a, there's a tale that a friend of mine tells. He was with him, , at dinner one night and they were talking about Bitcoin, and all of a sudden Robert's on his phone and he's doing something for about five minutes, and, uh, his dinner partner said, "Well, what are you doing?"
Dana: He says, "Well, I just bought some Bitcoin." Right. "You did? Why?" "So I have some skin in the game. If I have skin in the game, I learn about it. I pay attention to it." Yeah. And I think if you do this with your kids, buy some silver, some one-ounce silver coins that the various mints around the world make, you have a teaching tool that they can hold in their hand that's different than anything they're going to find in pocket change or anywhere else, , that will make them understand, you know, why it's scarce, [00:18:00] why it's valuable And then you can go a next step to, you know, what its price history has been and how it was a monetary...
Dana: It was money for, for, for years.
Justin: Mm-hmm.
Dana: But, you know, the gold price was fixed internationally from 1850 to 1933. It didn't move at all. You know, most markets didn't really move the way they do now until Richard Nixon decoupled us from gold in 1971. The, back then the currencies were, were pegged to each other more than free-flowing.
Dana: Mm-hmm. Uh, stock market was l- much less volatile. Since then, you know, we've gotten free-flowing markets across the board. But this is a, holding it in your hand is a real way to teach people, and everybody can afford a couple of ounces of silver to do so. And Over time, the value should grow. On average, if you look at gold over the last 15 years, it's averaged 8, 9% annual price appreciation.
Dana: Yeah. It's lumpy. Some years are better than others, and some years we see declines. [00:19:00] But on average, over time, it's a good return. And silver is even a little bit better, 10 or 11, 12%. Mm-hmm. Uh, but we've had, you know, we had a big run last year into this year, which helped to raise those averages a, a, a point or two annually.
Dana: But still, prior to that, they were still going up 7, 8% a year, which is better than inflation for most of those years.
Justin: I love how you framed it as, , gold as a savings technology, or gold and silver as a s- as a savings technology as opposed to an investment. I think you're right. A lot of people do think of it as, you know, "Oh, should I invest in it?"
Justin: But it is truly, it's a savings tool that you can have tangibly in your hand. I'm fascinated by the fact that, like, so when, , as a parent, like, you're trying to teach your kids about money and make it feel real to them, and what they see these days are... I mean, they, they'll still see cash, right?
Justin: , Physical cash. But a lot of times they'll, you know, we are tapping our cards on a, machine or, or n- you [00:20:00] see numbers on a screen. It's not tangible. And, and, you know, but hey, you give them a coin and there's weight to it. Like, - and there's real, you know, tangible evidence. I remember when I, you know, when I first started buying gold back in 2020 during COVID, , I remember, you know, I bought some, , gold bars and I bought some gold coins, and I remember handing it to my, my oldest, , son at the time, and it's like, it's, you know, it's ha- it's got some, like, heft to it, some weight.
Justin: So it, it really does, , make an impact in terms of helping to, you know, as you put it, one, uh, get some skin in the game so you learn, you learn about it, uh, because you have some. And it, it's a great teaching tool. So, so thank you for that. , , So you're a, a physical gold dealer.
Justin: Have you seen people come in and, whether it's parents, and use, , you know, gold, silver coins a- as teaching tools? So whether it's for- allowances or, or milestones or just, uh, other things. [00:21:00] Uh, I'd just be curious to see the conversations or hear about the conversations that might, that you might be privy to, , you know, as people are buying physical gold bullion or silver.
Dana: Well, it's, it's unfortunately the answer's mostly no. Mm-hmm. Uh, most, most investors that like precious metals tend to be older people who remember, you know, when gold and silver were currency, or remember some of the problems from, you know, the past, uh, the Great Depression, World War II, um, inflation in the '70s.
Dana: , I love it when people bring their, you know, children that are p- you know, usually 10, 11, or 12 or older in with them- Yeah ... to, to buy metal from us physically over the counter, which we, you can do with us. , Because that's a real teaching moment. Why are you trading dollars for precious metals, Dad? What are you gonna do with this?
Dana: You know, it leads to a lot of questions. , What really is sad for me to say is that I've had a lot of clients over the years [00:22:00] who have, , left their, , s- gold and silver be inherited by their kids. Yeah. And the first thing the kids wanna do is s- cash it in. Right. Because they weren't taught why their parents bought it in the first place.
Dana: They didn't understand the fundamental reasoning to own it, so they just looked at it as a, you know, a, an opportunity to, to gain some spending power, and they used it. You know, one gentleman in particular bought 5, 6, 700 ounces of gold from me between 2000 and 2005 when the price was between, , 275 and 350, 375 an ounce-
Justin: Wow
Dana: before it got over 500.
Justin: Yeah.
Dana: And, and then I didn't hear from him for about seven, eight years. I didn't know what happened, and then one day his daughter called me up and said, "You know, I wanna sell all this stuff."
Justin: Mm-hmm.
Dana: And that was before, you know, gold went from about 1,200 to 1,800- Right ... in the next year, year and a half.
Justin: Yeah.
Dana: And, uh, he didn't [00:23:00] explain it to her properly, and that's one of many, many stories where inheritors didn't understand why their parents did what they did. , You know, going through the great financial crisis, seeing the money printing, seeing the in- interest rates go down to zero. , When COVID hit, I saw the writing on the wall.
Dana: Yeah. And I said to myself, "I'm gonna make a bigger personal investment in gold than I ever have," because I knew the money would print, the rates would go to zero, gold eventually would be worth more, and I did that. But it's not an investment to me right now. It's a savings vehicle for me. That's the, that really changed my own thinking, and I've been doing this for 35 years at that point in time.
Justin: Yeah.
Dana: Or 40 years. Yeah. Right? Yeah. So even, uh, even with it as my business- Right ... I didn't fully appreciate it until I really understood it that way, and that's really, I think, the best way to frame it.
Justin: That, [00:24:00] yeah. That, that's such a great way to frame that. I, I love that. , , let me zoom out for a second and just sort of look at the macro picture.
Justin: So one of the things that, you know, I think everyday, , people might find confusing is that, so central banks around the world, whether it's China, India, you know, Poland, Turkey, they, they've been buying gold at a record pace. And, you know, you look at the contrast between that and let's say , regular people have very little or, you know, or no exposure to, to it at all.
Justin: So there's, there's a big disconnect there. W- you know, why, why are the biggest financial institutions on the planet stockpiling this stuff and yet, you know, some of us out there are not even thinking about this at all?
Dana: Well, let's, let's go back. Now I already talked about how gold was money up to the '30s.
Dana: Yeah. And then the price doubled between 1933 and 1935, which made all those gold coins less [00:25:00] worth more intrinsically than their face value was. So it made them obsolete as coins. It made them commodities at the point in time. So when World War II was over, a lot of central banks around the world had those gold coins that they took back in, that they cashed people out for paper currency on their books.
Dana: And for most of the time from 1950 to 2010, those central banks were dis-hoarding those piles of gold that they had during all that period of time. They were selling it. But then when the great financial crisis hit, and the banking system almost came apart at the seams- Mm-hmm ... and debt exploded, central banks started buying gold on average about 500 tons a year because of that.
Dana: Why? They control the printing presses. They know what they did-
Justin: Mm ...
Dana: when they turned the printing presses on to stimulate the economy. Instead of letting businesses fail the way they should have during that period of time- Yeah ... they let a lot of them survive through [00:26:00] artificially low interest rates and flooding the money supply.
Dana: And they started buying gold, 500 tons a year, which is about a one-seventh of what the mines produce every year, , globally. And that's, was pretty consistent until 2022 when Russia invaded the Ukraine, and w- we weaponized the dollar and penalized Russia by throwing them off of the international banking transfer Swift payment system and seizing some of their assets.
Dana: Mm-hmm. Central banks in 2022 through last year, 2025, doubled their gold buying to over 1,000 tons a year on average for the past four years, which is now about a, a third of what the mines produce every year.
Dana: And cumulatively, this buying was enough to take enough supply off the market, enough demand versus supply, where the price really started to move higher substantially in 2024 [00:27:00] for the first time in four years.
Dana: It got to 20, you know, $500 after it couldn't get over 2,100 for four years.
Justin: Yeah.
Dana: , And that's really the, the difference. Why? Because if you hold gold in a vault- You have instant liquidity with your trading partners as a settlement vehicle if you wanna use it for that, and gold in a vault can't be seized or sanctioned like- Right
Dana: dollars in a bank account can be, or, uh, th- you know, your ability to pay others through the transfer payment system. Yeah. So the, the BRICS countries in particular have been working on creating alternative structures to the SWIFT payment transfer system, and potentially their own currency to rival the dollar.
Dana: But, you know, it took 20 years for the euro to, to come into existence from conception, 1979 to 1999, and then it took another 10 years for it to really be accepted. And it's still a, you know, it's a [00:28:00] good currency, but it's a minor currency compared to- Right ... the dollar.
Dana: In the meantime, we're insulated from all that as dollar- Right
Dana: holders, right? So we, if you are in another country and you wanna trade commodities, you have the fluctuations in the commodity price, but you also have the fluctuations in your currency against the dollar, which is a double volatility or a double whammy, 'cause the commodity price goes up and your currency goes down against the dollar.
Justin: Yeah.
Dana: Then the price increases actually could be double what it might be if it was just the commodity.
.
Dana: And that we don't have in the US because most things are priced in dollars. But what's happening now is, look at, look at the Middle East. , Saudi Arabia is starting to sell oil in Chinese yuan and other currencies- Mm-hmm
Dana: not just exclusively the dollar. That's a, that's a big sea change. Yeah. And it means the petrodollar, which has helped to- make the dollar really accepted around the world, , is [00:29:00] starting to lose its influence. And it's gonna take a long time for that to happen, but it's, it's ongoing now, and it will get...
Dana: The problem will become bigger for US investor or US dollar-based investors as time passes. There will be a rivaling of other ways to pay as time passes.
Justin: We talked about the fact that gold was on, , an extraordinary run towards the end of last year, and it sort of peaked in January.
Justin: There's lots of reasons for, you know, the price to fluctuate up and down, whether it's some, you know, are, are, , flooding to gold as a, as a store of va- as, as for safety, right? , , It's a s- it's a fear trade. Others, you know, could be, , this de-dollarization, , you know, the dollar weakening, , s- central bank accumulation.
Justin: So you've lived, you've lived through and seen a whole bunch of different cycles through- throughout your course in this, in this space. For you, in your, in your view right now, what is, what does the picture look like? [00:30:00] You know, what are the forces right now pushing and pulling on, whether it's price? , And where do you see that, going?
Dana: Okay, so a couple big phases to consider. One is the, just the, continuing growth of debt.
Dana: Right? That's fundamental number one. Number two is the weaponization of the dollar. Number three is the, , central bank buying, which doubled because of the weaponization of the dollar, which led to, you know, gold and silver to a degree moving har- higher in 2024 and 2025.
Dana: What happened last year to turbocharge things was President Trump threw a, a monkey wrench in the global trade order through his erratic deployment of tariffs. Tariffs on, tariffs high, tariffs off. Yeah. And it spooked the world. You know, gold went up $500 last April, , through Chinese gold buying [00:31:00] alone after the reciprocal tariffs were dropped on every other country but China, which we ratcheted up to 145% at one point- Yeah
Dana: in time.
Justin: Right.
Dana: Because China stood toe-to-toe with us and said, "You know what? We're gonna tariff you 125%."
Justin: Yeah, I remember that back and forth, , spat during that time.
Dana: Yeah. Now, during the first Trump administration, China understood that they were vulnerable to us, so they spent six years reducing their vulnerability: supply lines, trading partners, currency, , holding treasuries.
Dana: So when a second Trump administration came around and they were challenged again, they stood toe-to-toe. Mm-hmm. But what do the Chinese citizens do? They bought gold in hand over fist, because since COVID, their investment market for stocks had been horrible, their property market, which they invested heavily in, was, was, was way down, but they could own gold and silver, and they did, , buy it [00:32:00] hand over fist.
Dana: And that helped to push the gold price from t- 3,000 to 3,500 a year ago.
Justin: Mm-hmm.
Dana: And then the same thing happened with India Last September 1st, basically, when President Trump tariffed India 50% because they were buying, , oil from Russia, uh, and indirectly supporting Russia in the war against the Ukraine.
Dana: And the Indians went on a silver buying spree for the same reason- Mm-hmm ... because gold become pricey.
Dana: And they drove the silver price from $40 to $80 an ounce. And now gold is, you know, $4,000 an ounce, silver's $80 an ounce, and the whole world that tends to have a precious metals culture that we don't-
Justin: Yeah
Dana: suddenly realized, uh-oh, fear of missing out.
Justin: Right.
Dana: Got the whole rest of the world to really turbocharge the metals higher, to record highs. Gold hit 5,600 in January. Silver hit $120 an ounce. And now we're in a consolidation phase where the metals are trying to figure out, okay, where, where should we really be [00:33:00] fairly priced right now?
Dana: And for gold, that's between about 4,500 and 5,000 an ounce, and for silver, it's between about 65 and $80 an ounce right now. Mm-hmm. And we're settling into these price ranges, but the fundamentals that have driven us here remain fully in place. Debt's gonna continue to grow. Yeah. The world is more bifurcated than it has ever been in an us against them world.
Dana: , We have more disharmony than harmony. , And now we've got, you know, potentially an inflationary impulse that's gonna ripple through due to this higher oil price through the Iranian war, , which could be, you know, shall I use the Fed's word, transitory? It may not be. Right. We don't know yet.
Justin: Yeah.
Dana: Right? Yeah. But the debt's gonna continue to grow, which means the dollar's gonna, and other fiat currencies are gonna continue to lose purchasing power over time. So I don't think th- And the world really understands why precious metals are necessary, and US citizens are starting to wake up to it. When, when big [00:34:00] banks- tell you that the, the str- the traditional investment portfolio of 60% stocks and 40% bonds should be maybe 60/20/20, 60 stocks, 20 bonds, and 20% precious metals.
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Dana: That means the world, uh, the US is finally starting to get it.
Dana: Right? Why they're important. But it's only after a big major run that this change came about. And from my perspective, doing this and studying it for 50 years almost now, we've never had a precious metals run like we had last year when there weren't huge problems in the US.
Dana: Mm-hmm. Which is why most American investors didn't get it. The economy was still pretty good. Inflation was, you know, sticky but not bad. , Profits were pretty decent, right? , So when we had the big run in the late '70s and the big run during the great financial crisis, you know- Yeah ... the US was in trouble economically.
Dana: Right. We weren't [00:35:00] last year, which is why most Americans didn't understand why gold and silver were running so hot, and they were sellers into the rising price, not buyers.
Justin: Mm.
Dana: Until we got k- kind of that fear of missing out transition when gold got over $4,500 an ounce and silver got over about 70, 75. They realized- Gotcha
Dana: "Oh, this really is something happening here. Maybe I don't understand it, but maybe I don't wanna miss it."
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Justin: So let's say someone listening out there where they are, you know, let's say the difference between physical gold bullion Or I could put, you know, some money into, uh, you know, gold ETF.
Justin: What would you say to those people out there who are, you know, one, just looking to get into, whether it's gold or silver, but, you know, the actual importance of owning the physical, , asset versus, you know, putting it into an, an ETF. Maybe that they can r- have through their, you know, tax, tax accounts or, [00:36:00] or things like that.
Justin: How would you, how would you respond to that?
Dana: Well, I trade precious metals ETFs in my IRA-
Justin: Yeah ...
Dana: for two reasons. I try and harness price movement, because you can go long or short, you know, through, through different ETFs, right? So if I think the price is gonna move higher, I might go long, or if I think the price is gonna come down a bit, I might go short.
Dana: These are short-term tactical trades I deploy in my IRA for tax strategy so I can accumulate more dollars in my IRA. Mm-hmm. Right? It's just to get more dollars. But I really don't want more dollars for dollars' sake because I know they're gonna lose value over time. I'm trying to beat inflation and beat, you know, with the kind of returns I can get in other places.
Dana: That's really what that's about. But owning physical is taking some of those dollars and locking them into something else that is basically inflation-proof [00:37:00] to a degree. Not perfectly But it's an, it's a way to save- Yeah ... those dollars that I have earned, and it's two different things- Yeah ... completely. And until you really hold the physical in your hand, and you got it when you, when you had it, right?
Dana: Yeah, yeah. The, the, the heb- it's hefty. Yeah. Uh, these coins sound different. They ring a bit. Yeah. Uh, where the money we have that's copper nickel today in our pockets is, is flat. When you drop one of those coins on the table it just goes thud. But if you drop an old silver coin on the table, it goes ding.
Dana: Yeah. And it's special. Yeah. And there's a lot of history in our coinage too. You can go back and get coins that are 50, 100 years old that are silver that you don't pay that much for, 'cause all, all of a country's history is in its coinage.
Dana: Right? And so you can go back and look at history over time and understand that as well.
Dana: So that, the physical for me truly is a better way to save money.
Dana: , From an inheritance standpoint, if I own [00:38:00] precious metals and I pass away, and I will those to my heirs, they get a stepped up cost basis to the metal value at the point of my death.
Justin: Yeah.
Dana: That won't be the best thing for me, but it could be a really good thing for them.
Dana: Right. Because there won't be the tax liability on the profits that I would be subject to in the meantime. And I'm gonna certainly teach them why I'm giving them to them, right? So they can understand.
Justin: And
Dana: that's so- As a core, as a core savings vehicle, , that is really not an investment. It's a savings vehicle.
Justin: And that's so important that yeah, you are also teaching alongside them to explain to them why you're doing what you're doing and what the benefit is so that they can learn those lessons from you, as opposed to just looking at it as, , something of value that you've just passed on to them. ,
Dana: That's- Right.
Dana: So if you, if you, if you, if you get a silver Maple Leaf from 2020-
Justin: Yeah ...
Dana: and you put it next to a $20 [00:39:00] bill.
Justin: Yeah.
Dana: Right? They're both the same value at that point in time. Now, you take a silver Maple Leaf with a date of 2026 on it, and you put it next to that 2020 Maple Leaf, they're gonna look the same except for the date's different.
Dana: Well, the Queen is turned into the King now, right? Sure, yeah. The picture's changed. Yes. But everything else is the same. But now you gotta put a $50 bill next to that $20 bill-
Justin: Yeah ...
Dana: to get the value to be the same. I mean, that's one way you can show a kid right now what the difference is. And they're gonna ask, "Why?"
Dana: And then you explain it to them.
Justin: Mm.
Dana: Right? Yeah. 'Cause that's the teaching moment, when the chil- when the kid asks why. Yeah. That's when you drop everything and you explain.
Justin: Yeah, that's for sure. W- what would you say is the single biggest mistake that first time gold or silver buyers make, in your opinion?
Dana: , They're always looking for the lowest priced physical item they can buy- Mm-hmm ... premium over metal value. And I [00:40:00] don't think that that's the smartest decision in the current market. And the reason is we have a modest but growing problem with Chinese counterfeits. And when people think about gold and silver metal, they think of refinery-made square bars.
Justin: Mm-hmm.
Dana: Right, but what the Chinese can do is take tungsten and plate it with gold and replicate the picture on those bar designs much more readily than they can replicate the same picture that's on a US mint or a Canadian mint or an Austrian mint stamped one ounce gold coin, which is really just a round bar made by a sovereign government as opposed to a refinery that's refining the metal and then turning product out of that refined metal.
Dana: Mm-hmm. The refineries haven't done the same, , product due diligence in the intricacy of the picture that's stamped on the product to deter the counterfeiting that's being done by the Chinese. [00:41:00] So I talked about Canadian maple leafs. I have a Canadian silver maple leaf, and I know there are a lot of people just listen to this, but on the back- Yeah
Dana: you can see there's a big maple leaf.
Justin: Got it. Yeah.
Dana: But on the bottom there's a little white one that's frosted I don't know if you can see that very well or not, but-
Justin: It's hard
Dana: to make out ... inside of that- Yeah ... is another maple leaf that's tiny. Right. Yeah. And inside of that is a date that you need a magnifying glass to see all that.
Justin: I see.
Dana: The Chinese can't, can't reproduce that. A dealer like me will know that, you know, you're bringing me a Chinese fake.
Justin: Yeah.
Dana: But you may not.
Justin: Right.
Dana: Right? And that's the difference. And th- th- they're out there. There's enough of them out there where you really need to be careful who you buy from and where you buy and what you buy to stay off of that landmine.
Dana: It's small, but it's out there. You don't want it to be your problem, though. Right. Which is why doing business with a legitimate, long-standing dealer in the community who this is their livelihood- [00:42:00]
Justin: Mm-hmm ...
Dana: with a great reputation is really the best thing you can do. And I, that's why I recommend the sovereign minted one ounce coins, which are a little bit pricier than your refinery-made bars.
Dana: Yeah. Because you could be getting a good bar, and you probably will, but this is gonna continue, and the sellability of that bar may be impacted in the future if enough of them come out that are bad.
Justin: Mm.
Dana: Uh, you know, g- guys like me that wanna buy them will have to say, "Well, I'll buy it from you, but I might have to melt it and get it re- assayed first before- Yeah
Dana: I trust what you're giving me to make- Right ... sure it's real." Where the sovereign minted coins, you know, pr- pros like me can see the, the real, you know, from 50, from 50 yards away.
Justin: Yeah, yeah. Right. Right. So if- yeah, so the lesson is, yeah, buy it from a reputable, , dealer, - and don't just look for the lowest, you know, possible price, .
Justin: because you might get something that you might not expect in the [00:43:00] form of a counterfeit, ,
Dana: bar. Right. And, and stay off of auction platforms, and stay off of private sale groups, like Craigslist groups, , just as a mention, , because that's where some of the bigger problems are. , And you could, you could buy something that it's not what it's represented without knowing what you're doing.
Justin: Got it. No problem.
Dana: It'll be a good price, though.
Justin: Yeah. You get what you pay for. As we kind of, you know, maybe a closing segment here. - If you can give one piece of money advice to every parent listening right now, what would it be?
Dana: , Teach your children the value of their time and labor, and how to preserve that.
Dana: I mean, that's really... When we exchange time for money, that's really what we're doing. You know, we're giving our time. So what is our time really valuable? How valuable is it? And then once we've done that, how do we preserve that for our future, right? , You know, most kids don't understand that saving is [00:44:00] actually a good thing.
Dana: You know- Mm ... my, my biggest mistake was I didn't start consistently stacking when I first got into the business, and if I had done that, my wealth would be a lot bigger today- Yeah ... than it, than it is. I'm s- you know, I'm still happy, but, , I would have accumulated more. And I think that that's really, , the lesson, is that over time you can really save a lot if you're diligent about it.
Dana: Right? And it's, it's what is your time and effort worth? You know, we always think we can do more in a year than we really can, and probably less than we can do in five years than we really can. But you have to be disciplined to stay the course, and it's about education and it's about discipline.
Justin: Great, great piece of advice there. , , , what's one thing that you wish someone had taught you earlier about wealth and, money?
Dana: Well, my, my parents didn't really teach me about finance. No, I, I had to [00:45:00] learn it on my own. , You don't learn it in school.
Justin: Yeah.
Dana: There's no good education in school, which is why Robert Kiyosaki created the Cashflow game-
Justin: Yeah
Dana: to teach kids how to learn about, you know, how to build wealth through real estate, and I love real estate. But I didn't, I wasn't taught that. , I had a couple classes in college. , I told you I got a German degree so I didn't s- Right. ... I didn't spend a lot of time in the commerce school. . But that was fundamentally a mistake that I made.
Dana: So when, when inflation hit or the economy got weak or the economy got strong, you know, I'm thinking, "How can I make the most money the fastest?"
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Dana: And it's really the, not the f- not the hare that wins the race, it's, in this one it's the turtle.
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Dana: Right? Slow and steady really is what does the best. And look at Warren Buffett and his lifetime, what he's done- Yeah
Dana: doing the same thing, looking for value, finding it, and not, and then not being swayed, , past his convictions due to short-term market cycles [00:46:00] or, you know, changes in markets. You know- Right ... look for fundamental value and, , stick, stick with it.
Justin: , Where can people find you and the American Gold Exchange?
Dana: , We're based out of Austin, Texas. , That's our company name, American Gold Exchange. Our website is A-M-E-R-G-O-L-D.com. , Email, info, I-N-F-O @amergold.com. We have a really simple website that has live online transparent pricing on the most widely traded, competitively priced, and most importantly for our clients, easily sellable precious metals products like the ones I've described.
Dana: You know, there's a... We could have 5,000 SKUs on our website or different items to offer. Yeah. , And there's a lot of neat novelty items. We don't, we don't focus on those. We focus on what's best for our clients to have, uh, that's also easy for us to trade.
Dana: Because that's really what it's all about.
Dana: At some point in [00:47:00] time, you're gonna, you're gonna wanna sell some of this.
Dana: And we want it to be easy and fast and clean.
Dana: It's a very competitive market, too. So we're very competitive, competitively priced. , We work on tiny margins. We run a really tight, strict business.
Dana: , But we really try and help people understand. , What's best for them in the marketplace for price, what their options are, what their goals are. We're consultative in nature. So we're just trying to help people, , as translators into this kind of unusual market for, , most people.
Justin: I encourage everyone to check, check it out, and obviously we'll have those links in the show notes as well.
Justin: And I know for me, when I first bought, you know, my first gold, , bars and, and coins, it was such... It was, it was an eye-opening experience for me, 'cause I'd never done that before. And the person, you know, the dealer that I bought from, , took the time to explain. Like, I did some research before and, but they walked me through, , things and I felt comfortable.
Justin: And so the, it's, it's huge, right? Being able to, to go [00:48:00] to a reputable dealer, , to, to transact on, on this, on gold or silver. So, , Dana, thank you so much for this. This has been a, a wonderful conversation. , Covered a lot of different areas, whether it was macro, , the importance of framing this as, you know, as a savings vehicle, not necessarily just as an investment.
Justin: And so, a- and really the huge tangible benefits of, of having our, , you know, parents out there help educate their kids, , and not just pass along this value, you know, as something to inherit. So, , thank you so much. Appreciate this. , Thank you for your time.
Dana: It's my pleasure, Justin. Thank you again for having me.
Dana: , Really enjoyed our conversation.