Click to Commit: A New Era in Canadian Will-Making | Daniel Goldgut, Episode 061

#061.  In this episode, Justin is joined by Daniel Goldgut, CEO and Co-Founder of Epilogue, to explore how will-making is evolving in Canada. Daniel shares his journey from corporate law to launching a platform that makes estate planning simple, accessible and affordable for all Canadians.  We also unpack everything you need to know—from the surprising myths about wills, what happens to your digital legacy when you’re gone and how to protect it, demystifying probate as well as providing practical advice for parents to pass on financial literacy and create a solid legacy.

Show notes and more at:

https://moneydadpodcast.com/session061

Transcript

Daniel Goldgut

Justin: , my special guest today is Daniel Golgut. Daniel is a CEO and co founder of Epilogue. In his previous life, he was a tax and estate planning lawyer for high and ultra high net worth clients. Now, he's on a mission to democratize estate planning for all Canadians to make it more accessible and affordable.

Justin: Daniel, welcome to the Money Dad podcast. 

Daniel: Thanks for having me, Justin. 

Justin: Well, great to have you on here. And, and especially since we're going to be talking about such an important topic that all Canadians everywhere should be very in tune with and paying attention to, , before we kind of get into it, what I always love to do is start off with your childhood, your background and how it all began.

Justin: Can you talk to us about what your childhood was like as it related to your exposure to money and finances? How did your parents or others in your childhood influence your beliefs around money? 

Daniel: Yeah, absolutely. And it's a really interesting thing when you start to think back, like when you're an adult and you start to look back and figure out sort of what is your, I've heard it described before as like your money story.

Daniel: Like , what are the thoughts that you're having as an adult that you might not appreciate actually come from when you were growing up? We had regular discussions about money, about finances growing up. , I have memories Of getting an allowance. I have memories of saving up to buy something that I really wanted.

Daniel: In particular, I remember a hockey jersey that I wanted and, waiting, saving, finally being able to go to the store, the excitement that I had when I was able to put my own money out and get the thing that I had been saving up for and really wanting. , so I think I had a healthy exposure to, , the different sides of money growing up and then as you get older and you start to learn more and take in more from conversations that you're having with, with your parents, with other adults, with other friends, and start to really sort of shape that narrative as you get older.

Justin: It's great that you had that exposure, uh, from a young age, having those discussions. And even now I find, so the discussions that I have with my kids, because I have this podcast, but also I like to regularly talk about money with them so that they can understand in my, my 10 year old actually is super excited.

Justin: You mentioned saving up and buying that gift, right? , so he's super excited to buy, , this Lego, he loves Lego. And so, he's, he's saving up for that. , I mentioned in the intro that prior to co founding Epilogue, he worked as a tax and estate planning lawyer for high and ultra high net worth clients.

Justin: Talk to us about what inspired you to become an entrepreneur. Like , it's a jump, right? From being and doing corporate life and then saying, okay, you know what, I'm going to launch a startup company and specifically around, , helping estate planning, making estate planning easier for everyday Canadians.

Justin: How did you make that leap and what inspired you , to do that? 

Daniel: Yeah. So, I mean, I was one of those people that when I went to law school, I thought I was going to be a lawyer. , I know that I had classmates who went to law school who always saw something different in their future, who may have been using it as maybe some type of stepping stone where they ultimately had plans or, , visions of entrepreneurship.

Daniel: And they thought that this was a good way to get started for me. I thought I was going to be a lawyer. , so , it was kind of an interesting moment when I realized while I was practicing That I might want to do something different. , it was sort of some tough questions that I was asking myself.

Daniel: So I spent just under five years practicing, like you said, corporate tax and estate planning. And there was parts of the practice that I enjoyed and parts of the practice that I didn't enjoy as much. , and that I didn't think were necessarily playing to my skill set and some of the things that I could do.

Daniel: , and also I saw an opportunity. So my, my co founder, Aaron is also a tax and estate planning lawyer. We worked together at the same firm and, you know, , when we were having casual conversations about what we would do or might do if we weren't practicing law, , this was one of them, which was if we could make estate planning, if we could make, , making wills, , more accessible, more affordable and easier that we could help empower people to actually get it done.

Daniel: And so, , there was a lot of thought that went behind it. And ultimately at one point we decided it was time to take the leap, take the risk and, , and set out on this journey. 

Justin: , what was the entrepreneurial mindset around that time? , it was kind of a crazy time with, with COVID, ?

Justin: You launched your COVID. So not only are you trying to launch a new business, I mean, it, it obviously draws upon your skillset and your experience, but, , you're launching new business and it's during a crazy time where people are, , going through COVID, what was your mindset around that time in terms of trying to, , get things going and starting up and, , ultimately marketing to, customers to try to understand here's what the services and platform is and how it can help you.

Justin: Especially during this time. 

Daniel: Yeah, so we actually , left private practice just before COVID. So we left private practice in the middle of 2019. So it sort of, that craziness hadn't kicked off yet. , I mean this is the Money Dad podcast, so I'll mention that at that time I had one year old twins when I made the decision to leave private practice, and so there was sort of that, , that risk involved and , the stakes were higher I guess.

Daniel: So we, , we spent the time building up the platform and preparing for launch. And we ultimately launched in March of 2020. So that's when things really got interesting out in the world and for us in our business. , That was where the journey took, took a turn. , but , the build phase was happening just before things got, out of control.

Justin: I'm curious to find out. Even before you started that blog, so, , going back to , your corporate tax and your estate planning experience, was there any trends or anything you noticed working with high net worth clients in how they included their children, or they. We're teaching their children or, or thinking about, , estate planning.

Justin: , was there anything that came out of, , anything you noticed that came out of that process or that experience that, , that you can think of? 

Daniel: Yeah. I mean, I think I'll say two different things to that. So one is that, , individuals. Even those that are high net worth and ultra high net worth.

Daniel: I mean, I think most people want to do things that are relatively simple. Of course, you've got people that are doing very sophisticated planning, but that is really a small percentage of individuals who have an appetite to sort of go to that level of complexity. Most other people are really looking to do things that are straightforward and that they understand.

Daniel: , and that was interesting to see. And that sort of leads into the next point, which was, we'd have conversations with a lot of clients. And one of the questions that we would get a lot is, what does everybody else do? So even individuals that were, , very wealthy, , they were still curious about , what was common in terms of how to distribute your assets.

Daniel: , leaving things as between a spouse and that's between, , children, whether they're adult children and minor children, like there's, there's a curiosity that people have about what's common and what everybody else is doing. And so we had a sense too, that if we could create a system that made it easy for people to understand that sort of go through a relatively straightforward flow, , have the questions presented in a simple way, go through and sort of.

Daniel: make it as easy as possible to navigate it, that people would realize maybe it's not as complicated as they thought that it would be, and that there is a way to go through it, , and get it done that's more straightforward. 

Justin: . , , we overcomplicate things sometimes, right?

Justin: , I'm thinking to my own life I'm looking to simplify things because you want to make things simple and easier. , Because it just makes it easier to organize and , get your head around things. 

Justin: I, want to get into now in terms of, , making a will, right? So November is make a will month for people in Ontario. And I read a crazy stat, I think a couple of years ago that mentioned roughly 60 percent of Canadians, Canadian adults.

Justin: , in particular, did not have a will, which to me is mind blowing, but recognizing, , rules are different from province to province, and I know your platform covers, , many different provinces, if not all, , can you talk about, for listeners out there who are not aware, don't know, or, or just forgot, but can you talk about what happens to, let's say you have your assets, what happens to your assets?

Justin: If you die without a will 

Daniel: great question, , so there's a few different things. So firstly, if you die without a will, then it's known as dying intestate, which means that the provincial rules are going to kick in to determine how your assets are distributed. So in every province, there are rules, there's laws that say if someone dies without a will, here's what's going to happen.

Daniel: And generally speaking, it's going to look at your family relationships at that point in time. In terms of the distribution of your assets. So if you are married with no kids, the province might say that everything goes to your spouse. If you are unmarried and you have kids, it might go equally between your kids.

Daniel: Unmarried with no kids, it might be split between your parents or siblings, you know, aunts and uncles, nieces and nephews. So in terms of who gets your assets, that's going to depend on the rules of your province, if you don't have a will. There's a few things that are for sure, which is there's no gifts to charity if you don't have a will.

Daniel: And everything is very prescriptive. It's not based on who needs what. It's, it's the letter of the law and it's going to go. A few other things that happen if you don't have a will that are sort of worth mentioning here. So one is if you have minor children or pets, then you won't have set out any wishes about guardianship.

Daniel: So that's the place where you're going to decide who you want to be responsible for looking after minor children or pets. , and if you don't have a will, you've sort of given up the opportunity to let those wishes be known. , and the other big piece is the naming of an executor. So another thing that you're going to do when you make a will is decide who's going to be in charge.

Daniel: of managing your affairs and distributing your assets. And if you haven't decided who that person should be, then there needs to be a process where someone in your life, family or friend, actually applies to the court to be put into that role. Uh, it takes extra time, costs more money, uh, it can lead to, uh, disagreements or fights depending on who thinks that they're the right person for the job, or in the alternative that nobody actually applies to take the job.

Daniel: So , what I like to say to people is that if you don't have a will, you've just given up the opportunity to make these very crucial decisions about what should happen when you're no longer here. 

Justin: There was a, , a colleague of mine that I was talking to, and she ran into a situation where, , her best friend who lived in the East coast, I think it was Halifax or something like that, , died.

Justin: , I think it was suddenly, and it didn't seem that, she'd had any immediate family, or at least they didn't know. And her parents had passed from, from before. And so she, this friend was now trying to. Figure out and get things settled because she felt like, well, there's no one, you know, she was trying to locate a well because it didn't look like there was one, , and so it was quite a bit of a, , complicated process for her to try to get things sorted out, which speaks to back to your point about, , if you don't have a well, it can get messy, it can take a long time and you lose the opportunity to specify how things are going to be distributed, who's taking care of what, What if you had minors?

Justin: And I know for me, so when I got my will done, , it only occurred to me once I had kids, like my oldest was born and I thought the scariest thing that you mentioned where it was related to guardianship, like who's going to be taking care of , my kid if something happens to me or God forbid myself and my wife, like who's taking care of them.

Justin: So that was enough to scare me. I guess, scare me into thinking, , , I have to actually put something in place now for sure. Can you talk about. Like, even though most people know, , quote unquote, know they should have a will, right? It's, it's one of those things, people know, oh yeah, I should be exercising.

Justin: But many people, whether they're young, old, they struggle to get a will done. Talk about why this is still the case or some of the common myths about wills that maybe people have still to this day. 

Daniel: Yeah, for sure. So maybe I'll just start with one myth. And I don't know if it's necessarily a myth, but it's something that we, we hear a lot and that I heard a lot in practice is this belief that even if you don't have a will, sort of like everything will just go to the right people.

Daniel: And that's just not the case. Right. So there's a belief that like, no, someone will step in and they'll make sure that like everyone who needs something, get something. , and that's not the way it works. As I mentioned before, like it's very prescriptive if you don't have a will, , in terms of the reasons why people don't have will.

Daniel: So there's, there's been a few studies done, , over the last bunch of years, , asking that question, why do people not have wills? And there's sort of a number of answers that we see come up time and time again. So some people think they're too young. But they don't have enough assets. Like you said, it really kicked in for you once your kids were born.

Daniel: And so that's, that's common. , we see that a lot for people. So that feeling that I'm too young, I don't have enough assets. A lot of people just say they don't know where to start. , they don't know a lawyer there, you know, they don't know sort of what the options are that are available. And so it just stops them from doing anything.

Daniel: , It's too expensive. It's too inconvenient. So part of the goal for us when we created epilogue was to try to remove some of those barriers. So make it more affordable, make it more accessible, , make it easier for someone to start. So it doesn't mean that everyone is going to do it, but the hope was that for some people, , We could make it easier for them to do it.

Daniel: I think also one other myth is that there's a lot of people who believe that they should wait until that sort of perfect time in their life when maybe all of their kids are born and they have a certain amount of money in the bank. And they own a house or whatever the situation is that sort of everything is clear and defined and they will make their one will at that point in time that never needs to be changed again.

Daniel: So they're sort of waiting and it's sort of a one time investment and they're waiting to do that. The reality is that's not how it works. It's not how it should work. , you should make a will that reflects your situation, that reflects your circumstances today, , with the freedom to update it. So if you are.

Daniel: Kids are minors and very young. The person who might be the right person to be the guardian for a two year old, uh, that might change if your kids are 12 or 15. It might be a different person who you think is the right person for that job, or the person who you named to be the executor, , at a certain point in your life.

Daniel: , that person might not continue to be the right person to be the executor, or that person may be incapacitated or pass away, and so you're free to update your will as many times as you like to reflect your circumstances at the time, and I think it's helpful when people start to think about it like that.

Justin: , you went over a ton of different reasons why people don't get a will. And, and that's the thing where people think it's like one will and done. And I don't have to think about it, whatever. But that's the thing. , you can update your well, , you can make changes going forward.

Justin: And as , circumstances change, life goes on. life changes. , so it's not a just set in stone and you know, that's done. That's it. The other thing that's come that I think about, I've heard even just, I mean, maybe it's culturally, but, , is some people think that if they make a will that it's almost like, death is, imminent or something like that.

Justin: And, and it, it, you know, it's, it might sound silly, but , some people believe that it's almost like, oh, the other side of that is if you. You know, you have to think about and prepare for it's like, okay, insurance. Well, you don't prepare to get in a car crash, let's say for instance, but you need to have insurance in case that happens.

Justin: It's great that your, I think epilogue is trying to get rid of a lot of those reasons and barriers to why people, , are not doing a well when I, I went through the platform and it took a look at it.

Justin: One of the things I loved about it was the fact that, you know, you mentioned that, , you can, you should make changes as they occur. And so in your platform, you can complete a will and you can make changes to the documents anytime for free. It's which, I mean, to me, it's one of those things where, first of all, it's very affordable.

Justin: I mean, . It's a couple hundred bucks. It's , not even a couple hundred bucks. But, , and when you add in that feature where you can update the will or any changes, I really don't see a reason why anyone should not be doing this, like everyone should be going out there and doing this, in this particular day and age where, , social media is, is out there, , protecting our digital assets by including them in our estate planning process, , is important. And what I've seen that you've developed a first of its kind social media well, which is interesting kind of thought process around that, , creating a new way for people to safeguard their digital legacies.

Justin: Can you explain, first of all, what that's all about? . And why people should even be thinking about that. 

Daniel: Yeah, absolutely. So I think it's helpful here. , Maybe we're going to separate two concepts out. So there's digital assets and digital legacies. So digital assets are something that are generally dealt with within your will.

Daniel: , so those could be, , For things that you own, , that are digital, you know, cryptocurrency could be an example of a digital asset, , or files on your computer are digital assets that you own. Your digital legacy is something a little bit different. So, , we have, , I can't remember what the number, but there's some sort of like average number of social media accounts that people have these days.

Daniel: And it's something that's pretty shocking, right? So you might have an Instagram account or Facebook or Twitter X, , you use Google. And so in each of those platforms, if someone passes away and has not done any planning, , there's a bit of a question mark as to what should happen to that. So, , if you think about Facebook, you've got a Facebook profile, you've got a page that exists, , and when you pass away, there's one of a number of different things that can happen.

Daniel: So that page could be memorialized. Or that page could be deleted. And with some of these platforms, you can actually make that decision ahead of time. So you can do some pre planning. You can go into your account settings and you could decide ahead of time that you would want your account to be memorialized versus deleted.

Daniel: And. The companies now are starting to sort of recognize this. And the majority of them right now have sort of those pre planning opportunities and some still don't. So what we've done with the social media will is we've created a sort of a single place where you can go through, where you can, , reference what decisions you've made with respect to each of those platforms so that you can have some control over your digital legacy.

Daniel: So if, for example, you wanted everything to be deleted. That's an option that you have. And so you could go into each of those platforms, you could adjust the settings so that where the pre planning is available, you decide, I want each of these accounts to be deleted after I pass away, , and then you let your executive and your family members know those wishes, because if there's any accounts where you can't pre plan and someone needs to step in and say, this person has passed away and these were their wishes, we'd like to have this account deleted.

Daniel: And so it's a way for you to manage your digital presence, your digital legacy after you're gone. 

Justin: I'm curious. So let's say for instance, the person who passes away, I mean, doesn't share their password with anyone. Are you able to literally take that, , will that States here's what I want to do with these digital legacies.

Justin: If I want to delete, , the Facebook page or delete whatever the other Instagram accounts and then show or tell, I don't know, Facebook or Instagram, like this is what the will says. Can I. Can you get me, or I guess you're telling them, yeah, can you wipe it or can you memorialize it? , for you and they will honor the wishes of, of that in that will.

Daniel: The short answer is it depends. So it's, it's not necessarily that that document is legally binding on those companies. So in some cases what you're doing is you're, you're notifying the company that the person has passed away. And then if that person has done that pre planning, then notifying them that they've passed away will allow the company to , Start to initiate whatever it is on their end to affect those wishes.

Daniel: If, for example, there is no pre planning, it might be that the terms of service for that company say that if someone has passed away and if their family member or if their personal representative comes to the company to request that this account be either memorialized or deleted, that the company's policy would be to accept what the personal representative has said.

Daniel: Thank you very much. And so in this case, creating that social media will create in that document. What it does is it gives your family and your, uh, executor or your personal representative an indication of what you would have wanted to happen, , which is really important to let them know so that they're not left guessing or wondering what you would have wanted.

Daniel: , so. . I mean, it's, it's still a little bit tricky because what happens in each of those instances is that when someone creates an account on Instagram, for example, there's a user agreement between that individual and that company. Right. And so what you're trying to do is figure out what's allowed within that relationship, what exists outside of that relationship.

Daniel: And so really this, this is about letting individuals in your family know what you would want to happen with all those things. 

Justin: Yeah. And that's the biggest thing. I found that when, so for instance, when my mom passed away, , she had, she had a will, but there were certain things that, Like we actually, we didn't even talk about before she passed that after, you know, cause you're, you're dealing with grief and you're dealing with, with everything, all these different emotions and you're trying to make decisions on things that you're, you're guessing as to what she would have wanted.

Justin: , so I think that. That's the best thing about that. Well, about a well right where you can make sure that you provide instructions and direction to the executive about certain things that you want to have to happen and how things are, , are organized. , I wanted to also get into the probate feature on your platform.

Justin: It looks like it's a new feature out there. , and epilogue offers assistance with probate. First of all, , explain kind of what probate is to people out there because it, it always sounds complicated and it kind of is, but yeah, maybe talk about what probate is and then talk about how epilogue, , offers assistance with that process.

Daniel: Yeah. Absolutely. So yeah, probate is a word that people hear, at different times and it's, a little bit confusing. So its, its essence is that after someone passes away, there is generally speaking a formal court process to, , confirm the validity of the will. If there is a will, , And that is called the probate process.

Daniel: So, in each province there may be sort of slightly different terminology, , that's used. But, , the term that is widely thrown around is that it is known as getting probate. Which means that the court is going to put an official stamp on that will and say, we believe that this is the last will of this individual, , and the executor now has the authority to act on this will.

Daniel: , where probate is really important is that if you're dealing with, , institutions, so if you're dealing with a bank, that bank is not going to take any steps until they see a probated will, right? For them, that's that document that says this has been, , confirmed and that takes the risk away from the bank that a week later someone shows up with a different will and they say, Oh, well, sorry, we've already transferred the, , the accounts out of, yeah.

Daniel: John Smith's account into a new account, which is the estate of John Smith. In that per so, , probate's an important step in that process to get that authority to act and to confirm the validity of the document. , so not every will needs probate, but it's very common for wills to go through the probate process.

Daniel: So yeah, as you noted, the probate service that we're offering, , is relatively new right now. We're only offering it in Ontario, and it's to give individuals assistance with navigating the probate process and, . Filling out the correct forms and submitting those. Cause it's pretty, , process driven. 

Daniel: And it's just to help people navigate that, that difficult time. 

Justin: You said that probate is not always needed in some instances for the will, what are those differences between when probate is needed and when it's not, is it going back to what you said, like institutions, they're not going to do anything unless it's probated.

Justin: But let's say, I don't know, I guess in theory, if someone doesn't have any financial assets at a financial institution and I don't know, stuff's. I don't know, bags of money in their closet. I guess at that point, , do you need to probate a will in those situations, in those situations or, or not? 

Daniel: Yeah, the short answer is it depends, , but not every will will need to be probated.

Daniel: So for someone, , maybe who holds all of their accounts jointly, which means that on the death of the first individual, everything passes automatically to the survivor. There might actually not be much in the estate, if anything. That remains. , or like you said, if someone doesn't own any assets or insignificant assets, , you know, the banks might have a threshold where if the account has less than X dollars, they might not require probate to go through and distribute.

Daniel: , so yeah, it's case specific, , and it's, , it's worth sort of having those discussions , with professionals at the time to determine whether or not probate is needed. 

Justin: Okay. That's helpful. , and I think back to when, so when my, when my father passed away, I was the executive of the will and I had to get the well probated and it's, it.

Justin: It's, it's painful, actually, just to go through that process. , especially for the first time and trying to navigate through everything. , so the fact that there's help assistants out there from, , from my blog that could help with that process, especially since it is very process driven, you have to fill out a lot of different forms, you got to wait a long.

Justin: Period of time. And, , , assistance with that is, is, is helpful. , , I want to, , ask you about, , this is a podcast for parents out there who are looking to, for ways to help their kids, , increase their financial literacy or look at ways to build , their foundation.

Justin: I want to ask you, so if you could turn back the hands of and go back to when you were, , 16, 18 years old, what words of advice. Or what words of wisdom would you give to yourself around developing your financial IQ, financial literacy? 

Daniel: It's a really good question. It's a question that I, I have kids too, as you mentioned.

Daniel: So I have, you know, six year old twins and I've got a three year old daughter. And, and so I think about these things about, , what type of, of advice to give them and how to talk about money within the family and how to help them build, , good habits when it You know, if I went back to when I was 16 or 18, I would have encouraged myself to, to read more to be, , a little bit more educated on, on budgeting, on saving, on how to think about money, how to understand money, , I think the more you know, the more equipped you are.

Daniel: I think, , there's some really good books that I've read. , more recently, I don't know if they were around when I was 16 or 18, but, sort of personal finance stuff that I think is helpful to help you sort of get a more. well rounded understanding of, of the role of money and how to think about money, , saving money, spending money, making money, all those kinds of things.

Daniel: , I think the more , you can talk about it with others openly, the more you can, you know, consume content around it. Uh, it's just gonna, it's gonna give you sort of all that ammunition that you need to make good decisions in the future, , as opposed to each time you're confronted with a new situation.

Daniel: Of, of, you know, sort of feeling like you have no idea what to do. So, , I think education is key. 

Justin: , so I wanted to transition to our rapid fire round here and I'll fire off a bunch of questions. , you mentioned books, but the first question I have is what's one of your favorite books that you've read and enjoyed?

Daniel: I mean, a book that I just read very recently is called the psychology of money. , which is, , really, really excellent. I think that there's a number of different things that he talks about in that book that really stuck with me. , Sort of the role of risk and luck. , and how important it is to sort of understand some of those things.

Daniel: I think in the world that we live in today, it's very easy to look at someone who's done well and assume that sort of they had some secret or they knew something that you don't know, or to look at someone who has, failed, , and I'll use that word liberally in the sense that , they haven't had the same success that someone else has.

Daniel: And, , to recognize that those two people may have made very similar decisions, but ended up in slightly different circumstances that had a dramatic impact on what the outcome looked like. And so when you're looking from a distance to not, , it's too easy to idolize the people who it looks like have done well, and to look down on the people that it looks like have not, , on the basis that like sort of things are very clear and they're not, , it's much more nuanced than that.

Daniel: And so, , This was one of those books that really sort of brought that forward. , yeah, it's a recent one, so it sticks out in my memory. 

Justin: Okay, cool. Psychology of money. That's a great one. Uh, question number two is when you're not working, what do you love to do in your spare time? 

Daniel: Uh, so as I mentioned, I've got three kids, , and so there isn't a ton of spare time, but that's okay.

Daniel: Uh, so, you know, most of my time is spent, is spent with my kids. It's spent with my family, , playing sports, reading, , consuming information, podcasts and other things like that, spending time with family and friends. So 

Justin: cool. Question number three is what's the best piece of advice that you've ever been given?

Daniel: Wow. The best piece of advice, that's a difficult question. 

Daniel: I think for me, I, whether this is advice or something that I think I just , , learned from my parents is, , not everything is black and white, , there's an awful lot of gray.

Daniel: And so, I think it's about being, , humble about what you know and what you don't know, , recognizing that there's a lot more that you don't know than, than you do. And so, , it's important to have conviction where you can, but it's also important to recognize where you can't be 100 percent sure and sort of being open to other people.

Daniel: ideas or interpretations or possibilities. And so I live in a, in a state of gray, I would say, , where I'm open to sort of taking in new information and allowing that to reshape what I thought. , I think if you're too stuck in your ways and too convinced of, of one thing as , the only truth, uh, it can, it can lead you, , into a little bit of trouble there.

Daniel: So I think just an openness, understanding what you know, what you don't know. And, , as I said before, education, being willing to sort of take in new information and allow that to shape how you think and recognize that, , you may come to realize a little bit down the road that there was errors in, in how you were thinking before too.

Daniel: And new information helps to, , to bring that to light. Great advice there, 

Justin: , question four is if you could sit down and have dinner with anyone dead or alive, who would it be and why? 

Daniel: Wow. Another great question. Maybe this isn't sort of a, a, a single person, but I would say, you know, some of my grandparents that had passed, , I think as you get older, you can have different kinds of conversations with people.

Daniel: , I, I know that I would ask different questions now than the questions that I may have asked them when I was younger growing up. And so I think it would be fascinating to be able to have some of those exchanges now, taking what I know, , And, and I think I could learn a lot more about, about those individuals, about their life experiences and, , and what they went through and sort of how they perceive the world and so, yeah, having another chance to do that I think would be, , would be great.

Justin: Yeah, that would be awesome. And then finally, what's one conversation that you recommend parents have with their kids today about money? 

Daniel: I think it really just comes down to openness. I think it comes down to a willingness to engage. , and you can start small so that it doesn't end up becoming this thing that, takes on a life of its own.

Daniel: , that kids feel like they don't understand anything or that they're not permitted to be involved in the conversation, I think is really helpful. And so, , even if you start with something simple, , Like an allowance or like, , I've heard, , someone talk about a charitable allowance that you could give your kids where that money goes to them, but ultimately they're spending it on things that matter to them.

Daniel: , things around saving, , the importance of doing that, , money doesn't grow on trees, which we used to hear when we were growing up, which is that you got to work for it, you got to earn it, and then you got to make smart decisions about what you do with it. So I mean, my kids are still little, but we've started to have some of those discussions, when the tooth fairy shows up and put something under the pillow, , do you turn around and spend that the next day?

Daniel: , is that, is that the best thing to do? And not that you, you need to make those decisions for your kids, but it's about opening up a discussion so that they can learn so that maybe the next time they lose a tooth, they decide that they want to save it this time that they want to wait until they've lost a few more and put that money together to buy something bigger than the immediate.

Daniel: I want this today. And so, , I think starting the conversation young, , letting your kids ask questions, finding the right way to answer those questions , to make them feel involved, , and empowered. 

Justin: Absolute great advice. , it's about having those conversations, normalizing discussions about money. , having an openness that, that's really key. , so , as we wrap up here, work, my audience , , stay in touch with what you're doing or if they're interested, , in, in seeing what epilogues about and helping and how that can help them, , with putting together their will and estate planning, how can they get, get in touch with you or, or look that up?

Daniel: Absolutely. So, I mean, the website is epiloguills. com, so E P I L O G U E W I L L S, epiloguills. com. And, , when you go there, there's a lot of educational resources that you can find about wills, about powers of attorney, guardians, executors, all that kind of information. So it's a really good place to start just to help educate yourself on the world of wills and the world of estate planning.

Daniel: If you click start my will there, you'd go through a series of questions. It takes about 20 minutes to complete a will. , and we've had people do it, , a lot quicker as they go through, or we've had people do it over the course of weeks or months because your answers get saved and you can, , go away, think about things, come back.

Daniel: So, , to find the company epilogwheels. com, uh, you can find us on, on Facebook, on Instagram, on LinkedIn. You can find me on LinkedIn, on my personal LinkedIn, just by looking up my name. , if you have any questions, you can feel free to reach out, , Whether it's on LinkedIn by email, any other way. And, , we're just, here to help.

Daniel: We're here to make it easier for people to, , take care of this really important thing. 

Justin: , and we'll have all those references and links in the show notes as well. But I highly encourage everyone out there to , check out epilogue wills. , one, I think it's such a great mission to be able to want to democratize this process and make it easy and accessible and affordable for people, because there's such a huge need out there for it.

Justin: And this platform really does, , make it like. Simple. Like it's, it's simple, , for people to follow. So you really can't go wrong with it, especially when you can update your will and your documents for free. , so, and one thing I wanted to mention was that, , there is a, there's a promo code out there for money dead listeners.

Justin: If you put in money, dad, 20, so money, dad. Two zero, , into the promo code, , you get 20 off the, , the cost of putting together the well. So, , thank you for that, , promo for our listeners out there. , Dan, I just wanted to say, ,, great mission. I love the story of, , going from corporate , to now an entrepreneur, , and with such a worthwhile, , mission as well out there just helping Canadians, , with something , that's a huge need, , , and such a worthwhile endeavor.

Justin: So thank you so much for, , the time today. And, , enjoy the rest of the, obviously enjoy the time with the kids and, , you got some twins and the little one as well, , , yeah, lots of fun. 

Daniel: Thank you so much. Yeah. It was great to be on and, , really appreciate, , your time. And, , like I said, if anyone has any questions, please feel free to, , come to the website, check it out, learn a little bit and reach out.

Daniel: Awesome. Thanks.