Meet CoPi: The AI Money Mentor Built For Gen Z and Alpha | Nejeed Kassam

#070.  In this episode, Justin sits down with Nejeed Kassam — entrepreneur, father, and co-founder of Snowball 72 — to dive deep into how we can equip the next generation with the financial skills they desperately need.  Nejeed shares his entrepreneurial journey, from launching his first business at age 14 to building and exiting a successful fintech company, and now launching CoPi — a groundbreaking AI-powered financial assistant designed to help young people take control of their money.

We cover:

• How Nejeed’s immigrant family story shaped his drive and entrepreneurial grit
• Why most kids (and many adults) still lack basic financial literacy
• What inspired him to launch Snowball 72 and pivot from a video game to an AI-based assistant
• How CoPi empowers youth to learn, plan, and take action with their finances — judgment-free
• Real-world advice on how parents can model money habits at home
• Simple strategies Nejeed and his wife use to teach their own kids about money

Whether you're a parent, entrepreneur, or someone passionate about the future of financial education, this episode is packed with wisdom and practical inspiration.

Show notes and more at:

https://moneydadpodcast.com/session070

Transcript

Najeed Kassam

[00:00:00] 

Justin: Well, joining me today is Naji Kasam. Someone is doing some incredible work in the financial literacy space, particularly for kids. Naje is the co-founder of Snowball 72, a mobile.

Justin: Gaming company dedicated to financial literacy Snowball. 70 two's mission is to ensure that every teenager grows up financially literate. Naji is an entrepreneur change maker and is also the proud father of two boys, two young boys and husband to an amazing wife, and based in Vancouver, bc. Welcome to the Monday Day Podcast, Nejeed.

Najeed: Justin, it's a privilege to be here as a human. Obviously, you and I have gotten to know each other a little bit over the last little while as a, as a father and as a, as an entrepreneur in this space. So it's a pleasure and an honor to be here. Thanks for having me. 

Justin: No, the honor is all mine to be able to talk, talk to you today and have a conversation that I can share with

Justin: our listeners. I wanted to start off with your entrepreneurial background, so of course, you know, through my, through my research in, in preparing for this [00:01:00] conversation, you have such an interesting and diverse background. You started multiple companies, you're running several startups right now. You're previously founder and CEO of Kila, which was a nonprofit CRM and fundraising, and.

Justin: Donor management software company, , you know, you're recognized business of Vancouver as a 40, under 40 recipient back in 2022. , You did that for a number of years, I think nine years or so. Aquila, and then successfully mm-hmm. Exited last year. Mm-hmm. And two years ago. 20 now. Two years ago.

Justin: Yeah. Oh, 2023. Okay. So it's been 

Najeed: two years ago, end of 23. So it's basically like the last year, but it feels like a hundred years ago. But yes, it's, I'm sure it was in 23. 

Justin: And, and your journey, you've got a law background, your journey spans law, philanthropy, and now FinTech. And I remember when we, you know, we had earlier before we chatted, that you founded your first company.

Justin: Which, which I think you still have or you still have the name. I don't have 

Najeed: some. My brother uses the name now, but yes. 

Justin: Yeah. But you founded that company, you know, graphics and design firm at the age of [00:02:00] 14, sir. So my, yes, sir. I guess my question to you, my first question to you is what early experiences from your childhood early kind of shaped the way you thought about whether it was entrepreneurship, social impact, or, or even technology?

Najeed: A, again, it's a pleasure to be here. Thanks so much for having me. You started with maybe the hardest question possible, , which is, which is awesome. You know, I, so I'm really proud to say that I come from an immigrant family. I was born and raised in Vancouver. , I have family that, , is from, originally from Tanzania and before that India, Pakistan kind of area, one generation before.

Najeed: , And. During difficult political times in Tanzania, and we have, you know, relatives and friends from Uganda and Kenya who have very similar stories. You know, our, our community fled East Africa. , Some were refugees, some fled out of fear of becoming, you know, these, these difficult political situations and moved to the UK and to, [00:03:00] Canada.

Najeed: , My parents grew up in the uk. When they left, when they were like young from East Africa, they didn't know each other. They just, you know, both happened to 

Justin: Right. 

Najeed: And the reason I tell all that is because I think it really deeply shaped my entrepreneurial DNA, for lack of a better word. It, it, it was a important part.

Najeed: Of who I am. That story is one that, while it doesn't really affect me, Justin, to be honest, like I was born in, you know, Vancouver, I'm a Canucks fan, unfortunately, uh, you know, I'm, I'm a pretty much a regular Canadian, but that the values, the lessons, the hustle factor that came kind of in my DNA, . Is really kind of shaped how I think about entrepreneurship.

Najeed: The second thing is, while my dad and mom are not entrepreneurs, I mean, they're, they're in, you know, they're in medicine and dentistry. , My grandfather was like an OG entrepreneur. This is a guy who, , was 60, I think he was 16. He left the, [00:04:00] like village he lived in, in Tanzania to move to Darsala. The, you know, the story of the young kid moving to the big city.

Najeed: . Believe it or not, he was a shop sweep, and this is, I don't know, gotta be in the, probably in the forties is my guess. 

Justin: Yeah, 

Najeed: maybe thirties or forties. I'm thinking. I think he was born in 19, around 1920. So yeah, like late 30, mid late thirties. He was 16, I think, and he just. Kind of hustled, man. He went from shops.

Najeed: I, there's a story, my, my dad used to tell me about how it was like a grocery store, corner store kind of thing. Yeah. Um, and, um, but no more like a grocery store. Like they imported from the UK and whatever. And he was just the guy who swept the shop and he didn't have a place to live, so he convinced the guy to the owner to let him sleep in the shop.

Najeed: And at first it was in the store room, but there were like. Rats or God knows what in that. So he convinced the, the guy to let him sleep in the main shop under the guise of security. The hustle was real. Right. Ah, 

Justin: okay. Yeah. And 

Najeed: then of course my bapa [00:05:00] ended up buying the shop, buying the building, you know, expanding, uh, and kind of built from there.

Najeed: And then of course, when the political turmoil happened, it was all sort of taken from him, or it was all, it all disappeared. So he moved to the UK and frigging hell, he did it all over again. He hustled. Yeah. And you know, like, and so. You know, for me it's an honor to be my, my grandfather died when I was two.

Najeed: I never got to hear the stories that I would've loved to hear about all the early business work he did. But what I do know is that deep in me there is that DNA and I think so that's kind of, I'm a lawyer, so I speak in Preambles. That's kind of preamble a, preamble B is that my parents, , allowed us, encouraged us.

Najeed: I. To go out and get what we wanted in our lives. We didn't have all the means. We were very privileged. I never had to worry about eating or sleeping, but we didn't have everything in the world. They, my parents worked hard. They still work hard, [00:06:00] and I. But for example, you know, you talk about this company, NK Media, which was a graphics design marketing company in two, 2000, I think is when we started.

Najeed: I turned 14 in 2000. Yeah, 2000. 

Justin: Was that a, was that even a thing at the, I guess No. 

Najeed: So, so that's, that's the story I was gonna tell. So the genesis was, we, so I'm a tennis player, my brothers are, I'm the eldest, but my brothers are, there's twin brothers, 18 months younger than me. So the three of us were kinda like triplets in a lot of ways, right?

Najeed: And we're all athletes. , Played sports at incredibly high levels. We're I'm the worst athlete in my family. It's heartbreaking. , But we wanted, you know, new gear and stuff to, these are the old days where you needed video cameras to like, you know, film your tennis players serves. Yeah. And whatever. So we said to my parents like, we want this stuff.

Najeed: And they said no. But my dad said, but I remember my dad said, look, I will lend you the money. Go buy your camera. But. You gotta pay it back, you gotta do something with it and I'll be [00:07:00] your first client. 'cause he ran a, you know, dental practice. And so yeah. So we bought this video camera on old school editing software and taught it to ourselves and made promotional videos.

Najeed: And then we started playing around with Photoshop and you know, , I think there was, it was like, it wasn't in design, it was the thing that came before Adobe InDesign. Okay. And we would go. Door to door making business cards, menus for restaurants. I mean, like, this is like, you know, in the early Oh, that is awesome.

Najeed: Early two thousands. 

Justin: Yeah. 

Najeed: And so we learned sales, we learned, , delivery, we learned client relationships. And we were like teenagers, like young teenagers, but. You kind of take, you know, bapa, my grandpa's hustle. You add opportunity and motivation. 'cause we wanted, you know, new rackets or what, you know, whatever it was.

Najeed: Yeah. And you've got entrepreneurship. And ultimately for me, entrepreneurship is, , is somebody who has sees a problem, has a motivation to solve it, whatever that might be, and then won't stop [00:08:00] sleep. Sometimes until they solve that problem and the. And, and I learned that when I was a little kid. , The other thing I'll say, and is, and I'll let you get more questions and I promise is I was a elite level athlete, but I was a very bad elite level athlete.

Najeed: And so the thing I learned to do most was work my tail off and lose, like lose. And, and I think as an entrepreneur, I hate to say it, but you've gotta learn how to lose. You have to learn how to lose. Mm-hmm. And so. For me, I kind of got the best of both worlds. I got to learn the hard work, the discipline, the hustle, , the competitive drive, the exhilaration of being a, , what was then a fantastic athlete, but I was never quite good enough.

Najeed: Right? Like I had a, I, I never won nationals. I never won these things. I always lost early, you know, that was sort of my thing. But I was good enough to be in the room. 

Najeed: . 

Najeed: And so. Those are skills that I learned, , as a really, as a kid that have applied very well, uh, [00:09:00] to being an entrepreneur today. I dunno if that answers your question, but it, it's sort of long-winded, but I think it did.

Justin: It does, it does. And I think, you know, as you were. Talking about those, I guess I had a couple of comments. One was mm-hmm. So when you were talking about your bapa, your, your grandfather, you know, as a shop sweep, . In door, it reminded me of, so my, my father, he left, I mean, he's an immigrant into this country, into Canada.

Justin: Mm-hmm. But he left, , Jamaica. So he was born in Jamaica. Mm-hmm. And his father, so my grandfather owned a general store. In, you know, in the, I guess in Kingston. Um, and that's where my, my dad and his dad kind of, , grew up. And it would help him with the store, like operating that general store? Yeah, absolutely.

Justin: I, I assume he owned it. I don't know if he did, but I assume he owned it because, you know, he talked about, my dad would tell me stories of how they would sleep. In the apartment that would be above, of course, of course the general store. Sometimes you'd hear, you know, there would, I dunno, there'd be people breaking in, , to the [00:10:00] store, like while you're there, above.

Justin: And, , and he, you know, he told me that he foresaw a future for himself where he didn't, he didn't wanna. Be in that, environment. Mm-hmm. Um, so that's why, you know, that kind of motivated him to come to another country like Canada to, to set a set up. , And look 

Najeed: ultimately, like whether you call it the Canadian next journey, the American Dream, whatever you call it, this what it is, it's about going out there, finding a way to solve a problem, whether that's.

Najeed: For people like you and I have the luxury of solving problems like in the world that we're working on, but for some people that problem is making sure their kids are educated and have food on their table. But, you know, having that obsession and, and living it in the true sense of the word. And I think, , whether you're literally living on top of it or you're thinking about it every moment of the day, you know, that is, that is, that is entrepreneurship.

Najeed: And I think that's the beauty and the turmoil of it. 

Justin: Yeah. And the, fact that you, you know, you talked about learning to lose. I think it's so important because that probably gave you [00:11:00] that, , well, one, you have that drive, but also learning, you know, there's rejection. Well, there's a humility for for sure.

Justin: You're, yeah. You're, you're not the best or you're not, you know, you're, you're very good. You're amazing, but you're not the best. And, and you take that. But, but I think, 

Najeed: but I think more than that, if you e even if I was the best and I wasn't, let's be clear. Yeah. For 10 minutes. If you're complacent, you're no longer the best.

Najeed: Yeah. So. It, it's double, right? It's not only was I not in that top, top echelon, but just to stay in the crummy echelon, I needed to work my tail off, right? And so, and that's business. There's always gonna be somebody chasing you and you're always chasing somebody that's entrepreneurship and that's money, ultimately, right?

Najeed: And so, um, those lessons have served me. I, I think I hated, I, I was a bit of a bratty tennis player too. Like I. Definitely threw my racket on occasion. Oh, John, John 

Justin: Mack, John Mackinaw. Not quite Johnny Mack, 

Najeed: John Quite Johnny Mack. But definitely, I like to say I was passionate and I hate losing Justin. I hate it.

Najeed: Yes, yes. And yet I learned, [00:12:00] and I think it's, it's ultimately it served me really well. Amazing. 

Justin: , Was there a defining moment in your life where you, you knew you were meant to be an entrepreneur rather than follow a more traditional career path? Or did it.

Justin: Did it just slowly evolve? 

Najeed: I think it, you, you know, like I, I described it as being in my DNA, no matter how hard I try to get away from it, it seems like I always come back and at some point in my life I accepted it. So, you know, I think you mentioned in the intro, I took a, I took a bit of sec of a circuitous way of becoming a, a full-time entrepreneur, whatever you want to call it.

Najeed: Right. And I went to law school. I was a, you know, commercial litigator. In Toronto. I tried so hard to, you know, do that, but I always had a side hustle or a project. Yeah. Or an obsession or a, a nonprofit I was working on or something. Right. And so I don't think there was a, a defining moment . , I think there was more like that.

Najeed: You, you, you chip away, you try to [00:13:00] convince yourself that, you know, I want to be a lawyer and I was never a great lawyer 'cause I didn't do it long enough. But I was a pretty okay lawyer. I like, you know, worked at a respectable firm on bay, just off of Bay Street and all this kind of stuff, but. It's like in your soul, you're drawn to it, you know?

Najeed: Yeah. So, and my entrepreneurial work has been fun because it was, it's, , it's, , crossed both business and, , and impact and philanthropy. So, you know, people who found and scale nonprofits are entrepreneurs. They just have a different shareholder. The shareholder is the community. It's not yourself or money or whatever, you know, or your, your traditional shareholders.

Najeed: You're, you're building for something. That's not money, essentially. Right? And so, but I had a chance to build businesses, build nonprofits, you know, do some work in, in, in policy as an entrepreneur. , , but I always found myself coming back to building stuff, managing teams, solving problems. And so there's no moment.

Najeed: I think it's a series of moments now. I have accepted it. I am [00:14:00] just, I'm an entrepreneur. I'm a crazy person. Yeah. I love it. I, you know, when we sold Kila, which was an amazing company, it had, you know, a lot, I think we had our height, we had more than 75 people, , on the team. You know, we, we, we had billions of dollars, , philanthropy dollars kind of flowing through the, the platform, whether it was through payments or.

Najeed: Through our CRM and database tools. It was, it was really remarkable. , And I'm super proud of the team for what we built. , And it was time to sell it, you know, you know, it was time to sell it. We, we, we did really well for our investors. We, you know, we. And then I tried to retire, like, not really retire, but like semi-retire.

Najeed: Semi-retire. Yeah. It didn't work, man. Like I'm a, I'm a crazy person, like in the best and most romantic sense of the word. , And so I've now accepted it. So there's no moment, but there's a moment of acceptance in the last kind of couple years where I'm like, yeah. I gotta go build stuff. And so, so I, and I'm very grateful to have the opportunity to do that.

Justin: Well, it's that awareness that you've just, you've finally accepted it. And I think one thing that, 

Najeed: and I'm almost 40 [00:15:00] like this, is, it's taken half my life to kind of really, really accept it. But here I am and I'm very grateful. 

Justin: Many people don't even, , come to that point of acceptance. , But entrepreneurship comes with setbacks that, you know, I think people sometimes out there gloss over the fact that along the road.

Justin: There are many potholes and many challenges along the way. Are you able to share, , whether it's a fail, you know, quote unquote failure, which I mean, in my mind , you can't fail unless if you're learning something that's not really a failure, but is there a hundred percent, can you share maybe a failure or maybe even a challenge that kind of helped shape you into the person or the leader that you are today?

Najeed: I mean. There's, I could, I have a big, I have a document, I'll, I'll give an example in a second, but I have a document that after I, we sold Keli, I started writing or working on or whatever, and it was, , it's called the big. Big document or book of fops. It doesn't say fop. It's uses the full, the full, the full word.

Najeed: And it was like therapy for me. I was [00:16:00] like writing down all my mistakes. It was the hires, it was, it was for me. And my, my par, my business partner is my CTO, , Wayne, who's my, one of my best friends and one of my kids' godfathers like, you know, he's family essentially. And Wayne and I just. Vented to ourselves, right?

Najeed: Like, not even to each other, like to the paper, to the Google doc. , And it was just all the mistakes we made. And you know, sometimes probably not enough, but sometimes we revisit that document and say, are we making the same mistakes? Are we, you know, whatever it is. And I'll give you a really good example.

Najeed: Um, when we were at Kilo, we tried to build a second product and we shouldn't have, right? Um, we tried to build a second product 'cause we saw. A gap in the up market. We saw an opportunity for us to build it. We, I don't wanna say got greedy because we were being pushed by our investors and we had some, you know, institutional investors on our cap table who really wanted the growth.

Najeed: 'cause growth had kind of plateaued it, you know, 50, 80% year over year, whatever. 50 I think we made, the decision was about 50% year over year. And. It was [00:17:00] too early to have plateau at that growth rate. Yeah. And so we're like, we need, we need to build a second thing and here's our competitive advantage. But what it did was it defocused us ultimately.

Najeed: Mm-hmm. You know, it split our team and not in half, but you know what I mean. It split our team and we weren't ready and we didn't have the knowledge and it was done outta desperation a little bit. , Now the business was fine, don't get me wrong, but, . I learned a, we learned a lot about focus, about one point of attention, about, you know, sticking to our guns, about, , using resources on a team if like, there was a lot of stuff we learned ultimately, right?

Najeed: And so, , that screw up or whatever was real, I think it fundamentally, and not for the better affected our business in the future of our business. Mm-hmm. Um, but. I learned a lot from it. And now as I build, you know, new companies and new teams and I invest in companies, all of those things have taught me and given me, , guidance, , for the work I'm doing and the decisions I'm making now.

Najeed: Um, I I [00:18:00] could give you a hundred of those stories. 

Justin: That's, that's a great example. And I think a lot of entrepreneurs, it's easy to get caught up in not focusing, right? Like it's hard to, there's so many different. Balls, you're juggling, there's so many mm-hmm. Different things you can get at yourself, involved with.

Justin: And, uh, yeah. That's a, that's a fantastic challenge 

Najeed: there. And there's also a lot of, there's a lot of noise out there and there's a lot of hype and there's a lot of fomo. Yeah. And thankfully, I'm a fundamentally boring person because I am skeptical of the hype and all that kind of stuff. You need to ride the waves, but not get caught when they crash.

Najeed: I think that's the best way to think about it. Right. And so. . Focus to me is the solution to that problem or one of the solutions to that problem. Know what you want, have conviction what you want. , Make a bet. You know, you're gonna have to make an assumption, a guess. Yeah. And jump off the cliff and be fastidious to, to, to, to solving that problem until you are certain that you can't do it anymore.

Najeed: And then drop it like [00:19:00] a, like a. Bad illness. Get rid of it as fast as you can and do it again until you find your formula. But being disciplined to focus on what you're doing and, and to really make sure that the decisions you're making as an entrepreneur are not because it's sexy or, , hypey, but actually.

Najeed: You've given it, the time you should have given it, and then to make the decision to pivot away from it. , And we've done that with Snowball. I'm happy to talk about it when that went, you know, later in the conversation. 

Justin: , , let's talk about Snowball. Of course. So, snowball 72 is tackling financial education in a way that's empowering to kids.

Justin: And, you know, the problem we're challenge or the reality is that the majority of children, young people, mm-hmm. Just do not get, first of all, a meaningful financial education. Whether it was definitely school or at home. Or at home. 

Najeed: And I think whereas parents we're, both parents we're absolutely as much of the culprits as the school system.

Najeed: Exactly. And I 

Justin: think, you know, it's really upon, to me, in my mind, the parents to really take a leadership role in that. Mm-hmm. Bringing that financial [00:20:00] education to their. To our kids. Mm-hmm. , To help that generation really, you know, learn from our mistakes. Mm-hmm. But also just set themselves up, , on a better path, on a, on a strong, much stronger path.

Justin: Absolutely. What, so, you know, you talked about your mini retirement, , a couple years ago, but very short-lived. Very short, lived three months, right? , What made you, or what. Led you to co-found Snowball 72 and, and why? Why, you know, what's driving you or inspiring you to take on this big systemic challenge like increasing financial literacy?

Justin: I. 

Najeed: I mean, I think, so firstly, it's an honor to tap, you have the luxury to tackle a problem like this. And the scale and scope of what we're doing is remarkable. , If we are successful, right? If we are focused on being focused, and I was drumming that to my CEO this morning. , Just I was telling her, we've gotta focus, we gotta focus on this or that, and we gotta, you know, we're at the early stage, so we're trying to find our, our lanes, but, .

Najeed: Look, I, I think we have a pandemic of, of, of financial illiteracy and, and I think [00:21:00] that I don't have the data points in front of me, but you know, I think I read somewhere that it costs the world $1 trillion a year. Financial illiteracy is horrific and it disproportionately affects folks that. Are not as well off.

Najeed: And so you've got a problem that they can't get out of their cycle of struggle and it's, they're, the deck is already stacked against them and they're not getting the education. It's a, it's a, it's a multi-layered and it's a compounding problem. And so honestly, I was sitting in at a coffee shop, someone was complaining about it and I was like.

Najeed: We could probably solve that problem. And here are a bunch, the entrepreneur, it saw a problem, right. Cared deeply about it. I was like, there's actually a way to do this. , And, and that's how we got into it. And, and I think, but the motivation behind it, which I think is a, a, I didn't obfuscate from answering that part.

Najeed: I just think it's, it's just being a dad and seeing my, my kids and my kids are young, but my [00:22:00] kids' friends and the folks that we grew up around. , It's scary in my opinion. Yeah. How, how little they, understand it, they care about it, or the gravity with which it, , affects and can affect their entire lives ultimately.

Najeed: And I think, , if you can make it interesting, fun, accessible, , the amount of. Impact you can make is remarkable. But the amount of money I could make is also awesome. Like I'm not gonna pretend I'm not there. There are dual motivations. Yes. Societal change is the first one, and I will say it is, but there's a big business in here, Justin and I, and I'm excited about that too.

Justin: Well, I think you know, you, you nailed it, where yes it is. It can make a huge impact if we solve this issue or problem. It's, it's societal change you'll bring about that. You know, it's has such a profound impact on people's lives. Being able to understand, , financial literacy, being able to stand, understand it all, and, being able to [00:23:00] solve that.

Justin: Yeah. Creates, you know, if you're able to do that, creates a tremendous amount of value to those mm-hmm. That can provide those solutions. Now, I know when we first initially had started mm-hmm. You know, a number of months ago where we talking snowball 72 had. I was going down one path, but it's sort of mm-hmm.

Justin: Changed and morphed and evolved now. Mm-hmm. I'm 

Najeed: happy to talk through that. Can 

Justin: you talk through sort of, you know, maybe where it started and then Yep. How things have evolved or, , where things are going? 

Najeed: Absolutely. So, you know, we start, so firstly for any entrepreneur who's listening or any a parent whose kid is aspires to be an entrepreneur.

Najeed: One of the biggest lessons I learned at Kela was, you've gotta listen to customers. You've gotta listen to users. You gotta, you don't always have to listen to what they say, but you gotta hear them. You gotta process what they're saying. You've gotta obsess about it. And, and that's what we did. So we started.

Najeed: To solve this problem, I was like, we could solve this problem. Let's build a video game for people between the ages of kind of like 12, 13, and 20. That is a mobile game that is gonna teach [00:24:00] them about the financial liter, about financial literacy, about all the core principles, the words, the definitions, and whatever it might be.

Najeed: And so we, you know, we worked with, , we have a chief education officer, , who was a former, you know, formerly at Cambridge. She, um. She's a mom, she's brilliant. She has obviously her PhD in finance and she, we wrote our own entire sourced vetted financial literacy curriculum, which we still have. Okay.

Najeed: Yeah. Um, amazing, amazing tool. We're still using it, so that's, thank goodness, has not been lost. , And so we started building it in, we built A-G-D-D-A game design doc. We went to studios. We had a bunch of, you know. We were about to press play Justin. Yeah. , And, and go. You know, and then, and then as our, our research started coming back, we learned a couple things.

Najeed: One young people want will play this game. They will, because it's, and parents are super motivated , to allow their kids to play this game. 'cause it's a great way. And gaming is a. [00:25:00] Remarkable way to to transfer knowledge. It really is. Well, it's '

Justin: cause it's fun for the kids. It's fun for the kids. They don't even realize they're learning 

Najeed: and they a hundred percent 

Justin: are absorbing lessons.

Najeed: Natural hundred. Well, think of our kids on their iPads or their Tony's or whatever they're listening to or watching. It's incredible. Right? 

Justin: Yep. 

Najeed: Here's the problem. Nobody wanted to pay for it. And so I still, I still have this dream of building a, building the game at some point in some way. And, you know, it'll take a couple million bucks and it'll be, you know, but I couldn't, we, we have some really great, , early stage investors, , and I couldn't in good faith go to them and say, I'm gonna build this game.

Najeed: Here's our plan. 'cause the, the research was telling me that's a hard nut to crack the education space. Parents say they're motivated to pay for games, but they're actually not. , Even if they're learning, even if even, and so the more data you're like, you know, you have to have a degree of irrational belief as an entrepreneur, but you also can't ignore the data.

Najeed: You just can't. And [00:26:00] so I still have irrational belief in that. Game, but I can't justify spending whatever, a couple million bucks to build this game knowing that I could have a ton of people play it and nobody wants to fund it. Yeah. Nonprofits don't want to fund it. Parents don't want to fund it. Schools certainly can't fund it.

Najeed: All of whom should fund it, right? Like, to be honest, yep. You should pay 20 bucks a year for your kid to have this game, but. Again, people's actions say that they won't. And so we went back to the drawing board and, and as part of this business, thank God we had this idea that we were gonna build the game to teach and then build what was then a compendium app or a, you know, an app to use that would help people, you know, , practice the stuff in real life or, you know, outside the context of a game.

Najeed: And we kind of turned it on his head and as. Interestingly this, this growth of generative AI kind of happened as we were building this. It's like this is real time, the world is changing as we see it. Yeah. And [00:27:00] so then we started mucking around and what we, what we came up with is a lot of young people not only want the knowledge, which there are lots of ways to, , to share gaming being one of them. But really they don't know what to do next. They need help actually, , is the best way to put it. They need help from, you know, someone they trust and often that is not their parents 'cause their parents may not actually know what to do. I remember we had one user interview where the parent was like, look, I wish I save X dollars a month for my kids.

Najeed: I don't know what to do with it. Like, I don't know it. So that got, you know, the juice is flowing, you got enough data and you get more and more. And we've done a hundred plus of these interviews and we're like, well, why don't we build a personal assistant for finance, like for all things finance. And everyone's like, well what about a financial advisor?

Najeed: And, and I will say this to you, and I'll say this publicly. The dirty little secret is too many financial advisors don't care about [00:28:00] advising. They care about selling you stuff. 

Justin: Yep, absolutely. 

Najeed: And so imagine if it's four o'clock in the morning and you're stressing about money, you can pick up the phone and call someone.

Najeed: I. In this case, ai. And so we're launching a product called Coppi, COPI, and the, you know the domain is coppi.money, COP i.money, and it is a personalized AI powered financial assistant. It is trained on our curriculum and our trusted sources. It integrates with your bank account. Your credit cards, it will help you in every way you want it to.

Najeed: From a money perspective, help me build a financial plan. It'll build the plan and it'll hold you accountable to it. Help me build a budget. How much did I spend on fast food last month? Oh, what was my goal? , I don't understand compound interest. Can you explain it to me? , What am I missing? What kind of accounts do I need to have?

Najeed: Like it is, and it's, the great part is it's infinitely scalable, infinitely, and it is. [00:29:00] Yep. It is, it'll, it is accessible. It levels the playing field a little bit, which is what's really cool. It shares knowledge and, and education and literacy, and it's always there for you because nobody, you know, and it's built for Gen Z and , gen Alpha.

Najeed: So, you know, basically people under 30 right now. Now, the interesting thing, Justin, is we've had a lot of people who are like millennials and Gen Xs say like, Hey, I could use that. I'm like, well, then you Absolutely. Yeah. You're like, I'm not saying, but it, you know, it is. So the, it's early and then there's gonna be a, you can call, you can WhatsApp it, you can phone it and talk to it, and you can use the app.

Najeed: And the app is gonna incentivize them. It's gonna gamify it. It's like Duolingo eyes. It, you know, like, you get points, you get, you know, this and that. , And, and it's, it's, it's real. And when you're ready. If you need to open a credit card, it'll help you find the right credit card. If you want a mortgage broker, it'll help you refer to you 'cause it knows you.

Najeed: And the thing is, it knows your, your, your, it's, you know, [00:30:00] obviously security and privacy is, I'm a lawyer. It's like fundamental to what we do. But the thing that I've learned most is you and I could have the same bank account, the same net worth, and the same transaction history, Justin and je. Okay? Yep. 

Justin: Yep.

Najeed: We're different people. We have different social, emotional relationships with money. Okay? Yeah. When a financial advisor doesn't really know that to, to be blunt, unless they really get to know you, co. Co. Which I don't think they will anyway. Which they will, 

Justin: they will not, but of course. Okay, 

Najeed: but cop can, 'cause you've talked to it, you've texted with it, it understands your fears, , it meets you where you are.

Najeed: In the way that, because that's the beauty of ai, I have to tell you if it's done right. Mm-hmm. It's remarkable. And so, yeah, that's the product we're building. Um, we've got our f we got our, um, I dunno when this is gonna come out officially, but we'll have our, our, our alpha probably, , ready by the time it comes out.

Najeed: There's a, there's a wait list. But really, like our goal, our dream is still the same to make every young person. Be not [00:31:00] only financially literate, but but be financially engaged. Mm-hmm. Have access and so, you know. This is, it's, it's quite remarkable and it's scary, but it's, it's really fun and we're, we're learning a lot, so it's good.

Justin: , I know you're this sort of public consumption, , now for everyone, but when you first sort of talked to me about this idea, I thought it was, I. Absolutely brilliant. Like I, you know, you look at the way the world is moving towards AI and, and all the power that can be unleashed from it.

Justin: And there's no dumb 

Najeed: questions. One of the RA crazy things I learned was a lot of young people's say they're 27 years old.

Najeed: Okay. And we talked to obviously a lot of these folks. They're too scared to ask the questions. 

Justin: Yeah. 

Najeed: Because they don't want to seem stupid or don't want to seem out of touch or don't even know who to talk to. Think about if you are living and you know, you're, you're from a, a middle class family and your parents are super busy and your teachers don't care that much, [00:32:00] and you're like, I don't know what to do about this.

Najeed: Do I need to start saving for retirement? Do I, what kind of savings account should I get? Who are you gonna ask? Mm-hmm. Like, I, I, I don't even know the answer to that question. 

Justin: Yeah. 

Najeed: , You walk into a bank, they're gonna laugh at you. Your net worth is $11 or $84 or $2,000. This is gonna give you the language, the tools, all of these things in a non-judgmental way that meets you where you are.

Najeed: And I think that's the beauty of it. 

Justin: Yeah. And meeting people where they are, it's essentially, it's absolutely critical to making sure that, you know. Wherever they're at, that's when they're gonna be most receptive to learning about things. Absolutely. Putting in practice. 

Najeed: Absolutely. 

Justin: Um, and, and it, and it just, it's, yeah, so I I 

Najeed: it's incredible if we can pull this off, man, we can change personal finance.

Najeed: That's the reality of it. 

Justin: Oh, yeah, no, that, that, and that's why this is transformational, I think. How do you, as a, you know, you talked about, so initially the, the game that, the video game mm-hmm. That you had started [00:33:00] to develop and then you recognize the. , Issue was, okay, no one's gonna pay for it, even if, well then just the business model 

Najeed: challenge, right?

Najeed: The business model. Right. So how do you, 

Justin: how do you balance the tension between profitability, . Driving, , user revenue, profitability, and, and earning, obviously return for your investors. Mm-hmm. Purpose in a, FinTech startup, how do you, there's a line, right? A hundred percent.

Justin: There's a line, I dunno what that line is 

Najeed: necessarily, but I know there is a line. It's like a feeling, right? You know, it's there. Look, look, I think ultimately, as long as we don't, so I. I think for me it's about integrity and values. And I know that's a stupid and kind of a canned answer, but, but it really is for us, if we are true to our core values, our, our m we, we were a, we're an exponential organization, , framework company.

Najeed: So we think about things in like our MTP, our massive transformative purpose. And for us it's like. Every young, we used to be teenager, but now it's young person, whatever that's defined as to have to grow up with financial literacy [00:34:00] and have access to the, to the world of money, right? Whatever that looks like.

Najeed: As long as we stay core to that, I think we can never not be an impact driven company, but at the same time, we don't give ourselves the discount in terms of performance, success, whatever it might be that some people associate with impact driven companies. So, you know, it's like. Are we holding up our values, the ethics of our business, the ethics of the people who founded them?

Najeed: Are we continuing to work towards our MTP and are we holding ourselves to the standards though that the best companies in the world, like early stage, you know, stage relevant companies are, and I think the balance comes from not allowing us to be a discount. So we're always still driving for our investors, for ourself, for the business, but at the same time not allowing, making decisions that.

Najeed: That are aligned with and fall under the, the kind of guidance of those values and those that that MTP and, and I think sometimes it's gonna be [00:35:00] hard. And I remember at Keila it was hard where you're like, if we do this, we're gonna make more money. But if it might challenge our values or if we do that, it might, it's very values aligned, but it might screw us on the business side.

Najeed: You just have to be cognizant of, of it. And I think that's where I trust, like, having great leaders and great team, team members. , My, my CEO Gemma, um, she's like, her integrity is like 36 outta 10. It's amazing, right? Yeah. Like, and so, you know, obviously myself and Wayne, we've trusted each other.

Najeed: We've known each other for, you know, more than a decade and work together. If you believe in your team, I believe, and this is just my opinion, and if you believe in your team and you know that they're doing the right things for the right reasons, and you hold yourself to those high standards, you'll find that line and it's gonna move and it's gonna change and it's gonna, it's gonna challenge you.

Najeed: But that's the fun part. 

Justin: Amazing. So you've, you talked about how you've held or had hundreds of interviews with whether that was, sounds like with parents and their kids or parents? Young people. Young 

Najeed: people, yeah. Parents, young people over [00:36:00] 16 'cause of, you know, privacy and, and even teachers too, actually.

Najeed: So it's really interesting 

Justin: , , Out of those sessions, what. Maybe, from the research, what mm-hmm are the biggest financial mistakes, , that maybe parents are making in, regards to, you know, not setting their kids up? That's a good question. What do you, is there anything that comes to mind when I, when I ask that?

Najeed: So, I'm gonna give you an answer that's not exactly a response because it wasn't exactly what we were asking, right? We weren't asking, 'cause we were more asking like, what do you do? How do you do? Like it wasn't, but I think my interpretation of that question is I think people aren't starting young enough.

Najeed: I don't think people understand the true value of compounding. , And that, , you know. $50 a month can transform your lives in 15 years, right? Yeah. Like. Really, uh, people, 

Justin: people don't recognize how, if you start even small, 50 bucks small. I know the smallest thing young 

Najeed: people spend like $7 on a Starbucks and there's nothing wrong with that.

Najeed: Yeah. But if you can do that, you can put X number of dollars [00:37:00] away for, for a rainy day, and then understanding that it's something, you know, you, you, you should be taking care of your, , your physical health. You should be taking care of your mental health. You should be taking care of your spiritual or emotional health.

Najeed: You should be taking care of. Your financial health. It's just one of the things that, it's almost like a pillar of growing up, right? Yeah. And I don't think it has been, , articulated like that, and I don't think parents have often because they don't do it themselves. Mm-hmm. You know, d done a great job of of, of, um, giving folks at least the access to tools, resources, whatever it is to help them.

Najeed: Start that journey. And so if 10, 20, 30, $50 a month is gonna pay dividends, no pun intended, in 10, 20, 30 years, you gotta know where to start. And you gotta know what to do along the way, whether it's teaching about what. Teaching about financial literacy itself, whether it's, you know, making the right [00:38:00] introductions to appropriate stakeholders, or whether it's just having someone to talk through.

Najeed: You know, we believe that COP is really solving that problem. 

Justin: How can we help young people, you know, as young. As young, you know? Mm-hmm. Young parents too are not starting. Yeah. And people, but people are not starting early enough. How do we help young people develop that mindset of, . , That long-term perspective.

Justin: Right. Talked about think's a muscle, 

Najeed: Justin. Yeah, so I think it's a muscle like, sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off. Please go ahead. 

Justin: I was gonna say like, so like develop that long-term mindset or long-term focus instead of just focusing on short-term gains. . 

Najeed: Look, I think if you preach only the long term, it gets kind of stale.

Najeed: It's not a great message to say like, oh, think about when you're 40. Well, who, if a, a 14-year-old doesn't care about when they're 40 to be blunt and maybe 4% or 10% do. But reality is, you know, I think taking a balanced approach, making it interesting and fun. Mm-hmm. And also making it accessible. I think we, you know.[00:39:00] 

Najeed: It's, if it's inaccessible, it feels like it's out of reach. And then you say, who cares about the future? But if it is accessible and there is a mechanism and you meet them, to your point earlier about meeting them where they are, I, I think it's just a habit then. 

Justin: Yeah. Yeah. Developing those habits from a young age, really when you're 15 years old or whatever.

Justin: Yeah. It's that muscle memory too, right? Um, getting that, getting those reps early on. You know, you talked your. You're an elite tennis player, you had to get those reps. I was, was maybe still are. I don't think so. You gotta get those reps early on. , Your kids are young. Yep. You know, and, but I'm always looking at ideas on what other parents may be doing.

Justin: Mm-hmm. What are some of the things that you or maybe your wife have done or maybe have thought about doing to help build your kids? , Financial literacy or, or putting in place things that make it, , engaging, interesting for them as they, as they get older. 

Najeed: So, I'll tell you what we're doing and what we're doing with them.

Najeed: 'cause it's both relevant. So, [00:40:00] you know, there's a degree of weird every month come hell or high water, we put money away for each of the kids and an account that sits there and it just grows. Right? And it's super long term, it's super low risk. You know, it's, it's just, that is, if. We'll do that before we go buy a new shirt or shoes or like, it's so important for us.

Najeed: And that's a, it's a, on my wife's name is Aisha. Aisha. And I have a responsibility to do that for our kids. And that's, you know, unless we can't pay the rent or the, or in our case, the mortgage, , that is gotta be at, or the food or whatever. We're very lucky. We don't have to, but we still do that no matter what.

Najeed: Every month, you know, a a comes out of. Our account and goes to one of our kids, a and it's not their SA checking account. It's like a, it's like a savings account for them. Okay. And the same amount goes to our other kid, which is great. Right. So it's like it's there. Yep. And that's a habit that we've developed on our side as we feel a certain responsibility towards our kids.

Najeed: Right. [00:41:00] That's on top of the, you know, RESP or you know, all that, that's separate. This is just like our personal commitment, and we're lucky enough and that number can change as things get easier or harder, but it's a commitment we always make. But with the kids, you know, we're kind of working on this, this, this three pillar pedagogy that we're talking about.

Justin: Mm-hmm. 

Najeed: Saving, I guess it's technically four, but sort of three. It's saving, spending and giving. , And then earn, I guess earning would be the kind of fourth, but they're a little young to be earning. They're, you know, they're kids. Yeah. And so I think in our, eldest is five, I think either this September when he starts kindergarten or next September when he starts grade one, we're gonna have this sort of.

Najeed: Game or you know, thing we play where we give him an allowance of 20 bucks a month or a week, or, I don't, I don't think we've talked about a quantum yet, right? Yeah. But he has, he's in, if he wants to spend it, he can, but he has to sp [00:42:00] he has to at least spend X percentage on donations. Yep. And we will double it.

Najeed: So whatever he chooses to donate mm-hmm. You'll match. We'll match. Match that. We'll match that. 

Justin: Yep. 

Najeed: If he saves it at the end of the year, we will give him interest essentially. So he's motivated to save it, right? 

Justin: Yeah. 

Najeed: And then if he spends it, God bless him. Right. Um, and so, you know, these are early kind of not that.

Najeed: We're not groundbreaking by any stretch of the imagination, but for us it's, spending is important. Live a good life if you can afford it. Saving is more important. , Yeah, think about the future. , And then obviously giving is, is fundamental to our values as a family. And so you're kind of incentivizing in different ways, those three actions, right.

Najeed: Um, and then. If they, when he gets a summer job or he builds his business when he is a, you know, when whatever he does we'll continue to double the donations pay. Like we'll continue to support that and so [00:43:00] probably till he is 18 and then he can go do whatever the hell he wants. But, you know, both of, both of the boys can and, and I think more than the actual.

Najeed: 10% year over year interest or doubling of the donation. What I'm excited about is the conversations I'm gonna have, dad, what if I do this? Or, dad, do you think I should do this? Or Mom, how do you feel about, you know, like where he gets to actually dig in and, and engage with us and how do you guys do this or, mm-hmm.

Najeed: I talked to my friend James and or Sarah and she said, or he's, you know, like where he starts to think about this as not his whole life. We don't. We want him to become money minded, but we want him to become money conscious and money literate ultimately. And so, you know, that's how we're doing it, at least at this early stage.

Najeed: And we'll, we'll kind of, and I'll definitely, I won't say the name because it's, that's for him to share it whenever his time. But he told me he wants to build a company and he picked the name of the company. He told me. Oh yeah. And, and [00:44:00] he's like, when I build. This name, you know, I'm gonna do this. And like, he's starting to think about it and he's starting to like see his dad and mom building businesses and doing work.

Najeed: And so hopefully that can both inspire him, but also give him experience to do these things. And I think that's, that's how we're doing it. 

Justin: , I pay my, my oldest interest, but I pay 'em every month, so, okay. I might be rather than annually. You might wanna think about it monthly. But going back to, but then how do you, how 

Najeed: do you control for like the one month, I guess the compounding Eventually, 

Justin: I, I, you know what, I took it almost to the extreme at some point where I was actually figuring out what.

Justin: Like I was the daily Ray was. Yeah. And I, and then after a while I'm like, this is too much brain damage for what I'm trying to accomplish here. I'm just gonna pay you what I think you know, is enough to make you motivated. Motivated. Yeah. To save it. Maybe it's like 10 bucks or 20 bucks. Mm-hmm. And then I don't have to go through the brain damage of going through the spreadsheet.

Najeed: , 

Najeed: No, the spreadsheet's, the fun part. I dunno. [00:45:00] 

Justin: And uh, and so, you know, and you mentioned your, yeah, we should 

Najeed: do it monthly. That's a good idea actually. Just, it's a little bit more regular. 

Justin: Yeah. , And then my youngest, you know, you talked about how your son was thinking about, oh, you know, this is the name of the company and this is what I wanna build.

Justin: But, so my youngest, who's five mm-hmm. You know, so your, your your, uh, your oldest age, but he talked about this company, it's this fictitious company called Apples and Tenders, which I think is a mashup between apples and chicken tenders. And so that's great. Yeah. So we, I, and I, you know, he came up with it and, you know, he started talking about it one day and I thought, okay, that's kind of great.

Justin: Uh, 'cause I, you know, he hears the conversations that I engage in mm-hmm. Through different calls and different people. Um, and he'll talk about, oh yeah, apples and tenders. I did this today. All right, no, we have a new location. It's set up in here. It's amazing. And I'm like, it's incredible. Like, actually, 

Najeed: so I hope, tell him, uh, I'll be his first investor, so he should, you know, like it's, it's great.

Najeed: He'll love that. We wanna teach our kids to dream about this stuff too, right? Like [00:46:00] my grandfather kind of going back didn't leave his village. I don't know if he left it thinking he would try to build a business empire, but he certainly left it to chase something better. Our kids, which was a necessity to a degree, right?

Najeed: Our kids have the luxury of being able to dream about building stuff, not because they have to, but because they want to. And I think that is, you know, a remarkable thing if you think about it. Yep, absolutely. 

Justin: I, wanted to move on to now our rapid fire round. Of course. So, , first question for you is, what's a favorite book that you could, you would recommend reading?

Justin: Or that you've read and enjoyed? Um, 

Najeed: Phil Knight's Shoe Dog. It's one of the best business business books I've ever read. It's, I'm an athlete or a failed athlete and I love sports. , It is fascinating, his mind, his audacity. It is probably the best business book I've ever read. Not in terms of the technical side, but the story is brilliant, brilliant story.

Justin: . Second question is, [00:47:00] other than spending time with your, your wife and your kids, what's one activity or thing that you love to do in your spare time? 

Najeed: I don't have spare time, , to be honest with you. , I wish I did. If I had more time, I think it would be playing tennis or playing golf. Okay.

Najeed: Um, I also, my sort of cheat in life, if I'm walking the dog or I'm out running an errand, picking up groceries or whatever, I listen to basketball, podcasts, , 

Justin: mind the game. 

Najeed: Mind the game. I listened to the new episode that, you know, the new, they just came out with Steve Nash. Yeah, they just, they're coming out.

Najeed: , But, you know, , the, Hoop Collective with Brian Windhorst, I like, I love, I love basketball and so obviously I'm a Raps fan and, but it's just like, I like the nerdy side. I like the business side, I like the analytics. I, it, it, so that's like a, you know, like my, my guilty pleasure I think is the term.

Najeed: Love that. 

Justin: What is the best piece of advice you've ever received? Financial, otherwise, 

Najeed: , Be comfortable being uncomfortable. [00:48:00] Yeah. My father said it to me and I think his dad said it to him, if you can be uncomfortable, which kind of brings in failing and getting up and learning all those, but, you know, be comfortable.

Najeed: Being uncomfortable is, I think the best piece of advice I've ever was ever given. 

Justin: That's where the growth occurs when you're uncomfortable. , It's all the 

Najeed: fun stuff 

Justin: and that's, it's all the fun stuff. , If you could sit down and have dinner with anyone dead or alive, who would it be and why? 

Najeed: That's a good question.

Najeed: I don't know. Leonardo da Vinci, I think I. Yeah. Why? To be a true renaissance man, to have knowledge in science and art and, uh, physics. And it would, I I just, I'm such a fan, so I think that would probably be much, I don't think even think we spoke the same language, but if we could, I I would, I would. Abso I think Leonardo da Vinci, I mean, there's, you gotta think of, [00:49:00] there's a lot of other people, but Leonardo da Vinci Nelson man would be pretty cool too.

Justin: Cool. And then lastly, what's one piece of advice you would give to parents on how they should talk to their kids about money? 

Najeed: A couple things. , I'm gonna give, I'm a lawyer. I can't just give one, I have to give you a pointed number, you know, nu bullet points. The first one is, , it's okay to not know how to do it.

Najeed: The first piece of advice I would give is just because you don't know, doesn't mean they don't have to know. So if you can't have the conversations, find out how to share the knowledge, whether it's through a video game one day, or through cop, or through your banker, or through a teacher, or through a course or whatever it is.

Najeed: I think just because you don't know don't, hand them the same shackles that you had, whether you were given them or it was circumstance. , That's life, right? But, , the second thing is, , start it young, but make, sure when you do it, don't make everything about money. Make it a [00:50:00] literacy, not an obsession.

Najeed: Because there's so many beautiful things in the world that have nothing to do with money, right? . But so many decisions are money decisions, even if they don't look like it. , And the third one is money isn't a dirty word. It's not. , And by sweeping it under the rug, you're actually hampering your kids for generations ultimately.

Justin: Where can my listeners go to stay in touch with what you're doing or what's happening at Snowball 72 or, or sign up for coping? I. 

Najeed: I mean, we've got a wait list for our alpha. , I'm really excited about it. It's, I mean, it's still crazy to me that you can pick up the phone and call it like, that's wild to me.

Najeed: That's amazing. , If you go to cop do money, www dot c opi money, , there's a wait list and early access. , That's exciting. , And if you wanna connect with me, I love. Learning from people, meeting with people, having a cup of tea or a Zoom or, I hate Zoom, but I do it 'cause there's so many great people around the world.

Najeed: , Just hit me up on LinkedIn, please. , NAJE just my first name. You should be able to find me. , And, you know, I love smart people. I love people that challenge my assumptions and I just, I, I [00:51:00] love, , that's what entrepreneurship's about, right? It's about building community and, and learning stuff. So please connect Copi money or, on LinkedIn.

Justin: We'll have all those, , links in the show notes as well, and so I just wanted to, sir. You. This has been an absolute pleasure to be able to talk to you today. I mean, I think what you're doing, believe what you're doing is just incredibly exciting, first of all. But thank you. Incredibly impactful. I am 100% a cheerleader and supporter.

Justin: Thank you. What you're doing in your business and, and what you're trying to build here with cop and, , anything that I can do to help to further your cause or for the, the cause, I'm more than happy to, to dedicate and. Well, Justin to do so. Well, thank 

Najeed: you to you. Not only just for having me, but also for building a community of parents who are trying to dip their feet in how we have these conversations and how we empower our kids and their kids, , with these important kind of money questions is, is so exciting.

Najeed: And, and I'm, I'm, I'm a fan of yours, so I'm grateful to be on here and I look forward to coming back soon. 

Justin: Amazing. Thanks so much. 

Najeed: Thanks [00:52:00] Justin.