Raising Sovereign Kids: Money, Mindset & Self-Reliance | Jon Stenstrom

#075.  In this powerful episode, Justin sits down with Jon Stenstrom—father of two, entrepreneur, creator of Cast & Spear, and author of My First Bitcoin Book. Together they explore how to raise kids who are independent thinkers, financially literate, and empowered to thrive in a world that’s rapidly changing.

From entrepreneurship, negotiation, and health habits… to Bitcoin, sovereignty, and the future of money… this conversation is packed with practical insights that every parent needs to hear.

You’ll learn about:

• How Jon’s upbringing shaped his entrepreneurial mindset
• The skills kids naturally possess—and how to strengthen them
• How to instill hard work and money literacy in young children
• Core money lessons young kids can learn
• Health as wealth: Building lifelong physical habits
• Jon’s Bitcoin awakening
• Why Bitcoin matters for families
• How My First Bitcoin Book helps parents AND kids build curiosity, financial independence, and self-sovereignty
• The three core values Jon wants to pass down to his children

If you care about preparing your kids for the real world, this episode will challenge how you think about money, family, responsibility, and teaching children foundational life skills.

Show notes and more at:

https://moneydadpodcast.com/session075

Transcript

Justin: [00:00:00] John is a father of two and has been teaching his kids about hard work and money principles. He's the creator of Cast and Spear, a YouTube channel with over 30,000 subscribers where he deconstructs the gear and techniques the pros use to catch Phish. John is also the head of product for a SaaS company, and he also just launched his first kids book on Bitcoin called My First Bitcoin book.

Justin: John and his family are based in Los Angeles, California. , . Welcome to the Money Dad podcast. 

Jon: Thanks for having me, Justin. 

Justin: It's great to have you on. , So much that we can dive into here in terms of your back, your entrepreneurial background Bitcoin which you're up to now.

Justin: And so , before we start into all of that, can you first talk to us about maybe your upbringing and how your early experiences shaped your views on entrepreneurship? 

Jon: Yeah, I would say I was born in a. Upper middle class family or maybe middle class, I don't know, it's just in Long Beach.

Jon: Really great parents. Very loving. [00:01:00] No complaints there. Never really pushed me too hard, but I was always driven to get, really good grades. It was pretty much top of my class in high school. Got into a good college. Never thought about entrepreneurship, to be honest. My dad was an engineer.

Jon: My mom was a nurse. They would always tell me, don't take too many risks. Here's the path, like, get good grades. But then, you know, like there's some standard jobs there. You know, it's like my dad never really wanted me to be an engineer, but he was just, it's what I saw him do. He, was.

Jon: Building lasers for defense and he would come home and talk about it, and I'm like, oh, that's really cool. The nurse piece was, I'm half Filipino, so, pretty much a lot of the moms are nurses. So my mom never really pushed me in that. She was like, yeah, if you wanna be a doctor, that's cool.

Jon: Never really a nurse, but like, I just kind of picked something in college and just went with it. I was like, oh, if I learn engineering, I'll always have a job. If you could always solve problems you'll be fine. It wasn't until I graduated college. That my cousin he is right now the largest gardener in the world. [00:02:00] Kevin from Epic Gardening, but at the time we were living together and he was always the one who was the real entrepreneur, the one who paid for college using poker. You know, early days, the early little Bitcoin miner, you know, it's like always the black sheep. And everybody was like, what is this guy doing?

Jon: But he was like my, he was my best friend, so I would always kind of see what are you doing? And he tried to get into some websites and do some like SEO stuff and I was like, oh, I can do that on the side. That's fun. What else am I gonna do in my t in my twenties? So that was just kind of like where I got a flavor of it, got some fails, got some successes, but then just like anything, you go down these rabbit holes and you're like, holy cow.

Jon: It felt like the matrix, I was that annoying person in my twenties who was like, how come you guys are all doing a job when you, like, I'm in a job, but why can't we be doing what we wanna be doing? You know, try to change the world and do all that stuff. That's kind of how I got introduced. It was later in life.

Jon: Now I don't necessarily know if that's the right way to do it. I think that everybody has their own path. There's some kids [00:03:00] who, get exposed to it early. They start hustling early. But I do think like the sooner you get the reps in, 'cause there's a lot of skills in entrepreneurship that, they compound like the ability to talk to people, like have really good communication skills.

Jon: The ability to negotiate the ability to kind of. Just get out there and be comfortable with failure. So these are a lot of things that I had to learn later in life, which I think were a little bit harder. But now these are things that I'm actively teaching. Like my son he's three, my daughter's 10, 10 months, so she, she's got a little bit of time to, to catch up.

Jon: But my son, it's like some of the early skills that I see in him already, a. From like really early on we, I started teaching him how to count. Like he's like one of these like little kids who is obsessed with numbers. I was like, if you can be obsessed with numbers, you're gonna be fine in business. 'cause you're gonna look at a profit and loss statement, right?

Jon: You're gonna understand balance sheets and you're not gonna be afraid of math. So just basic math. You don't need to know calculus like I have. Two degrees in engineering. I'm not using my differential equations for nearly anything, but, you know, basic [00:04:00] arithmetic is important. And then like, negotiation that's huge.

Jon: Like the ability to like see a win-win, be able to communicate that. Like my, my son's always like, I'm like, Hey, we're doing potty training right now. Like we need you to go, uh, to the restroom. And it's like, okay, I'll go to the restroom, but I want two pocks. I want, you know, it's like, no, you get one P, but no, I want two.

Jon: And I'm like, okay. Well. We'll figure that out once after you do it. And then he just, is this like second nature or From a really early stage, I had him always say hi to people and now it's ingrained in him and people resonate so well when a kid is like, hi, nice to meet you. Hi. And I'm teaching him how to ask questions.

Jon: This is gold because it's like even growing up in a world where people are like. He's putting out energy into the world and people are resonating and being receptive and reciprocating. So that, stuff like that, I think parents just need to be aware that these kids are sponges. They model like we're memetic creatures.

Jon: Give them the foundation early, like [00:05:00] before five, like yeah, do more. They're, they're capable of so much more than we think. 

Justin: I always find kids are the, I don't know if it's naturally ingrained in them, but in terms of being great negotiators, like they know. And I, I remember back to when my kids were young, especially my oldest, where I was like, I actively I want him to negotiate.

Justin: I, I, I think it's a great skill to learn. And, but it's almost like they intuitively have like this. The skill to be able to negotiate, whether it's bedtime, whether it's going to, you know, take a shower, whether it's doing whatever. It's something that, uh, either they come out with or that, but it needs to be harnessed and, and honed over time.

Justin: Um, but 

Jon: I think it's 

Jon: actually a better way to do this, right? Because like. If you don't teach 'em negotiation like the right way, like between like quote unquote, we're trying to tend to be peers, you know, we're the adults here, but at the end of the day, I always just look at adults [00:06:00] as like big kids, you know, trapped in, in adult bodies.

Jon: Yeah. But it's, if they dunno how to negotiate and communicate what they want, then they just become, why don't I have this? I want, I want take it, take it. And there's no back and forth. And then when you go into the world like that, you're screwed. Like you need to be able to be like. This is what I want.

Jon: And then somebody else will be like, well, this is what I can give. And then you go and do that dance, and then you come out better in theory, like we're just giving 'em a toolkit. I think negotiation is just a tool, and you're right, I think humans have some innate tools like or predisposition to some of these like ways of thinking and tools, but refining those because we know that life's a negotiation.

Jon: It's like that should be taught earlier. 

Justin: Yeah, absolutely. 

Justin: You. So speaking of teaching you, I mean, so you talked about how your son, he's three, you're already teaching him about hard work, about money. What does that look like in practice for you and your family? Like what are some practical examples that, that you use that maybe you can share with, [00:07:00] with the audience around that?

Jon: Yeah. One of our favorite things that my wife and I do is every time we are leaving the house to go to work, we tell the kids like, what are, where's Daddy going? Oh, daddy's going to work. Why is he going to work? And then we have them answer. And you know, we, we, my son, like one of the first things he said is, oh, he is going to work to make money.

Jon: And I was like, why do you make money for snacks and books? So it's like, okay, good. Like, and that's the default response, right? Is like, daddy goes somewhere. To go put in some energy for the family to come back with some resource that gets the family, especially the kids, something that they want. Right.

Jon: Which is, in my eyes, we don't have a TV in the house. We've never had one. I haven't had one in like 12 years. Yeah. I think that's one of the biggest hacks in the world. But we have hundreds of books in the house, you know, so it's like, this is where they're getting their, their like fun from is like the daddy and mommy will read a a gazillion books.

Jon: So now that they're trained where daddy goes out, daddy's bringing back. More stories essentially, you know, and, and from a [00:08:00] money perspective, it's like I have him give the credit card when we buy stuff, when we're out and about, so that he has that ability to be like, oh, this is how much it is. He might not, he knows it's a number he doesn't know, like.

Jon: But he knows that if he gives this card to this lady, we could walk out of the grocery store with these things. So it's like, but now he gets that transaction. He used to like, oh, thank you. It's like, here you go. Like, be nice. Say your name. You know? It's like, yeah. These little, little things that we take for granted that we do a hundred times a day.

Jon: It's new to the kid. And a lot of, and a lot of things, like for example, we have, um, a front yard garden, like gardening is something that I've done as a kid. I love it. I think it's like one of the best ways to show. You put some effort into it, you get to reap the harvest later. So it's like, it's like Kobe, this is your, your garden, so this is your ownership.

Jon: This is your thing that you have to take care of with daddy every day. So he'll be like, daddy, we gotta go water the garden. Great. You know, it's like we go out there, he helps use the hose. So I'm like you're taking care of this plant. If you [00:09:00] don't water it, it's going to die just like any other investment you do.

Jon: So it's like. You're just trying to not necessarily be like, Hey, look at your bank account, kid. Like that's not it. Yeah. It's just finding like tangential adjacent things that are similar in, in the concept. It's like you plant a seed, you take care of it, it grows over time. You put money in a bank account, you get interest.

Jon: It compounds over time. Like these are the same concepts, right? One's in nature and one's in finance. Same thing, but we can teach it to them early. 

Justin: Those are great, the great principles that you talked about there in terms of getting them to, you know, the analogy of yeah, watering your, your garden and planting those seeds that, that's a direct parallel to, to what you can do from the investment side for money.

Justin: , So what are some critical money lessons that you believe young kids should learn? , , , how can you know we as parents introduce those concepts in a way that that makes sense to them?

Jon: That's a good one. . One game that I like [00:10:00] to play is, I don't know how, if this is. It relates to money per se. For me, it's like the basics. I think I'm, I'm still more at the basics of understanding like ownership and like giving, and so I'll take say, for example, a bunch of pencils that are different colors and I'll help have him organize it by color and then I'll help, I'll make sure that he knows how to count.

Jon: Bundles and then I'll be like, okay, well this is my stack and this is your stack, but I want one of your red ones and I'll give you two of my green ones. So it's kinda going back to that negotiation thing, but it's, it's showing him that this is your stack. This is my stack. This is very similar to me having money and you having money.

Jon: And I'm gonna have this kind of like, we're learning the barter system, like the trade system right here. Yeah. So that's like one of the early things that we can do. You know, and then in terms of. I don't know if this is good. I don't know how people are gonna react to this one, but like every morning we have a little tradition where he'll wake up and, you know, after he [00:11:00] asks for his like vitamin and fish oil, which is hilarious that he's like such a habit creature.

Jon: It's, it's hilarious. I'm like, dude, you're, you're three, what the heck is wrong with the you? You're better at health than like most adults that I know, but Right. Like that, that I'll, I'll do one little quick tangent. It's like, one of the best things I ever did was put my gym inside of my office, which is like inside of our house.

Jon: So from the day he was born, he is always seen daddy lift weights. Daddy have the rings. So then he associates that with the playground. So he'll be the one who like has the pull bar, you know, and he like had daddy climbs on daddy and does some like pull-ups or he'll like swing on the rings. So it's like, I think health is wealth in a certain degree.

Jon: So I'm kind of like going away from the money element, but I'm like. , No amount of money you have will replace bad health. So I'm going, like in my late thirties, I'm gonna be going into my forties. This is in my eyes, the make or break time to be like, get as fit as possible, get that base layer, because I wanna be there for my kids for the long term.

Jon: Yeah. But I also don't want him to even understand what it's like to not be fit. [00:12:00] He's like a little Hercules kind of kid, you know? It's like these are things that he will see Daddy lifts weights four times a week. Like that's just, and then daddy expects Kobe to go swing on the rings multiple times a day just to get the energy out, right?

Jon: Yep. 

Jon: So I, I don't know if that answered your question, but it's kind of like looking at it holistically is it's like, what are the habits that I can instill as early as possible that he can resonate with? And even if it's a little bit advanced, he'll grow into it. 

Justin: , Talking about health as wealth, kids will, especially if you, if you start to expose to the to them at an early age.

Justin: I know for me kind of the same thing where I wanna make sure my kids see that. Like staying active, staying fit is an important part of, of my life and, and for them to model that. So I know, like for instance, I've, I've been training for my first triathlon. So, you know, I'll swim, I'll bike, I'll, I'll run.

Justin: And and I think it's just one of those things where the kid, like my kids will, they'll pick up on that. And so they'll wanna do active things [00:13:00] as well. I don't know if it's just because they want to just do it or. I'm hoping part of it is just they see that like, you know me and you know, my wife will work out as well.

Justin: And so it's one of those things that just becomes , just part of their identity or almost some, like, they, they see it from you and they, they wanna model that. , So those are some great examples there. , We talked about barter first initially, and that's kind of the foundation of money.

Justin: And then. , I want to get into Bitcoin. So you recently wrote my first Bitcoin book, which is an a, b, C primer that shows kids the truth about money, wealth, and freedom. Can you share, your journey of becoming financially aware, uh, when you started to understand or develop that understanding of sound money and, and principles around that.

Justin: And then what led you to write, write the book in the first place. 

Jon: Yeah, this is great. I would say I didn't really get taught investing as a kid. Like that wasn't just, that's something my dad took care of. My mom [00:14:00] was kind of just like, Hey, dad is the money guy. Cool. That was just in his bucket, like, didn't know anything about it, which, you know, in the grand scheme of it, that's, it's not that they, I think they were just thinking it's not a kid's responsibility, so I'm not gonna put it in their face.

Jon: It was when I graduated college and I took a trip abroad for a month to, uh, New Zealand and Australia with my cousin, the same one that got me into entrepreneurship. Uh, he gave me a book called, uh, I'll Teach You To Be Rich by Ramit Seti. And when I was reading that book on the flight over to New Zealand, it was like, and oh my gosh, like, what is this?

Jon: Like, I'm gonna be putting all this time and money into my job, which I, you know, was working at the time and took some time off. But I was like, when I come back, I'm gonna be, working. What is this investment stuff? And then it, the nice thing about that book was that it taught how to build systems.

Jon: So it was like build it once and just enjoy that leverage. So for that book, it was like, set up your, your accounts to dollar cost average. That was the first time that I was introduced to dollar cost averaging. And then it was like just focused on index funds. So that got me down that Bogle head kind of rabbit hole of [00:15:00] like, just put it in, you know, the s and p 500 or 500 best companies or whatever, index fund is your favorite.

Jon: And that was great because, you know, it set up my Roth, like my Roth IRA was like something that I've never missed since I was making money. 

Jon: Mm-hmm. Um, 

Jon: and that's one thing that I pride myself on is like, you never missed your Roth 'cause it's tax free once you could take it out. So I kind of have always just been that passive person.

Jon: When I was working at my first engineering job, I put some money into this. They had. Like this company was bought by Danaher, which was like, when I listened to the prospectus, it was like, oh, we come in, we buy these companies and we optimize them and take a 15% cut off the top. So I was like, okay, cool.

Jon: These are guys are like a mutual fund and I put some money in there, you know? So like that was my first, that. Seal of just a, just security, right? Like just a, a stock, not an index fund. Right. Yeah. And that grew better than the index fund. So I'm like, oh, okay. This is interesting. And I've held, I held onto that for years, like a decade, and I'm like, wow, that thing grew from a little bit of money to this, [00:16:00] right?

Jon: . Um, oh, so like I bought my first little slice of Bitcoin probably in like 2014 probably a little bit more in 2017. I didn't have, I wasn't like a Bitcoin maxie by any stretch of the imagination. I actually lost a lot of it because, you know, depending on who you surrounded yourself with, you know when the, the crypto bull runs are going, then it gets really tempting to try to make more money on alt coins, which are like these things that aren't Bitcoin, not even equivalent.

Jon: I didn't know that at the time, right? Like, really knowledge is power. But I, you know, I was a big fan of Ethereum until they did their proof of stake switch, which is just technical mumble jumbo for like, they ruined their entire ecosystem. Um, but it was when my, my, so when my son was born, you know, I wasn't really focused on rewiring my thinking in terms of of money, but it was when my daughter was born 10 months ago, had some paternity leave. It was the first time that I was like, sat down. I just remember thinking like, have I thought through [00:17:00] everything the way that if I'm gonna grow this family? 'cause I want another kid.

Jon: I was like, have I thought through like, is everything the rules of the game the same? And the more I went down that rabbit hole I was like, no, like we're printing money. Like how come it feels very challenging to make more money than I've ever made, but I'm. It feels like I'm making less money or I can't spend this money.

Jon: Yep. 

Jon: So I started going down rabbit holes and found like Michael Saylor and watched his like 17 part series on the What Is Money Podcast and started going back through history and being a fan of history. And looking at, oh, you know, if humans are part of the equation and they can debase the currency, eventually inflation is a hidden tax that you're able to take on everybody and nobody knows any better because nobody's asking these questions.

Jon: And that was kind of like, oh, well if the Romans did it, then what? Like ? What's the system that we're doing? 'cause they were shaving off. Gold coins, silver coins, and you know, putting smaller coins [00:18:00] or melting 'em down and taking a little cut. And I'm like, that's crazy. Mm-hmm. And then it's like, oh, well why aren't we on the gold standard anymore?

Jon: Like, oh wait, what do you mean with we're on a fiat standard? What's the, what is a fiat? Like, what does that mean? Like, oh, paper money. Didn't even know that was a term. So it's like you go down these things and you're just like, wait a second, what is actually scarcity? If I can print anything, that means I have to be getting a big raise every year just to like catch it up.

Jon: But I'm not getting a big raise every year. So these kinds of like questions were like once you go down the rabbit hole, like you start to see the system is kind of rigged against us. Yeah. , And if you're not really paying attention or you don't focus on the right, signal from the noise. It gets very confusing.

Jon: And a lot of people, the hard there's a quote where it was like, the illiteracy of the 21st century isn't if you can read or write, it's if you can , unlearn and relearn again. So to me I was like, that's important to be able to question all of my assumptions [00:19:00] and biases. 'cause at the time I, you know, Bitcoin was just something that we, you know, speculative asset, no real value.

Jon: Then you start looking at it and you're like, holy cow. Like actually it's the scarcest thing that ever created. It's digital energy, digital property. There's actually no counterparty risk compared to the house that I bought. Mm-hmm. Like the house that I bought, I thought I owned it. I don't own it like I have property tax.

Jon: Even after I pay off the house, I'll have to pay that. I have city ordinances, I have all of these things. And if you look at what Bitcoin has performed, like 10 years ago, a million Bitcoin would've bought a house. Now five will buy a house. So everything is actually going to zero compared to Bitcoin, and that is a tough pill to swallow.

Jon: When you think like all your hard earned energy that you put into the world, you're not storing it in the right vehicle. Like property was a great vehicle. Like stocks were a great vehicle. Cash is absolutely the worst vehicle. If you're sitting on a [00:20:00] big pile of cash, you're basically just saying that 10% of your purchasing power is going away every year.

Jon: And I, and I don't like being lied to, I think like. I didn't, I thought CPI was like a real number. And then you look into it and you're like, actually the true inflation rate is more like 10%. I'm like, so I need to be getting 10%, uh, raise every year just to be able to stay afloat and like tread water.

Jon: And the only reason why, like the mag seven are, are, um. Doing like surviving is because, you know, they're getting 20 plus percent, but it's like their growth isn't that great and they're propping up all these other zombie companies. So it was like, what is the s and p 500 if yeah. All this concentrated into your big tech network effect companies monopolies.

Jon: Right. So, I don't know, I'm going down a tangent, like, I don't wanna sound like the crazy Bitcoin, but I'm just like. It's kind scary. 

Jon: No. 

Jon: Yeah. Yeah. The more your eyes are open, you're just like, oh cow, this is crazy. 

Justin: That's the thing, like I think, it's crazy when you go down those different rabbit holes, [00:21:00] it just makes you question like what you've not seen over the past, as you've been, you know, busy, you know, everyone's kind of busy working, busy, raising a family, busy doing things, and until you sit back and you know, for you, it sounds like, yeah, at the time, you know, the birth of your daughter where you had them sometimes, just paternal and sometimes to think you don't.

Justin: Really question it, but until, and then once you start opening and peeling back all those different things, it does make you realize that, the whole, and again, yeah, I don't wanna sound, but it, it's just things are rigged against us. That the whole financial system is designed in such a way to take from us and that, truly. I mean, I remember during COVID, for me, I started to think about, I didn't buy Bitcoin during COVID, but I remember I started to look in a gold, 'cause I was thinking to myself like, we're printing all of this money out of thin air. [00:22:00] It's causing a huge amount of, , loss of our purchasing power because prices are jumping through the roof.

Justin: , We're getting less for what, for what we. What the money can buy for us. And, and then I started looking at gold as the, what can hold, what can preserve value, um, during COVID. And then, yeah, you look at Bitcoin in terms of what this represents now in terms of it's really, you know, digital gold.

Justin: It's a store of value that is scarce in nature, that there's only gonna be so much of this 20 million, 21 million Bitcoin around. No one can. No one can control it. It's completely decentralized. No one can no one can print more of it or, uh, make more of it. Um, and in fact, actually the supply is becoming, uh, more scarce or over time because of the algorithms built into it such that ev you know, uh, supply is, is being cut back every four years.

Justin: And so, you know, you look at this, and again, I think. Most of the world is still sleeping on this because they [00:23:00] don't really fully understand the implications of this for you. And I guess how, you know, and everyone's Bitcoin journey is gonna be different, but why do you believe it's so important for families, you know, whether it's parents or parents introducing to their kids.

Justin: Like why is it so important for families to understand Bitcoin now rather than later?

Jon: I would say it allows your family to be its own bank. So I wasn't really, I, I think I was taken to the bank to get open my first account, like in high school, and then they gave us the little booklet where you did your ins and outs and you know what you can withdraw and, and whatnot. That's gone with Bitcoin, like now you just have to get a hardware wallet or you can open up it.

Jon: You can make an account on the exchange and your purchasing power can go from your paycheck to your. Like in theory you want the cold storage because if it's not your keys, they say it's not your coin. But there are some respectable companies like River or something that has proof of [00:24:00] reserves, which just means like they don't lend out your money.

Jon: 'cause if you look at the, a fractional banking system, right? You put in money into a bank account, they'll seven x like leverage that money to other people and then you like, that's why you can't just withdraw it whenever you want because you know, they don't have the money in the bank account, right in the bank.

Jon: Whereas, so all I'm trying to say is like. I look at Bitcoin as like replacing the central banking system in time. Like it's gonna be the neutral reserve currency of the world. And it's just, we see the future, it just hasn't been evenly distributed yet. But it's, it's happening. Like there's stuff in the United States like the dig, the strategic reserve and all this other stuff, but that's just technical.

Jon: Basically like for a family, you can have your hardware wallet and store your, , pretty much like your family's spare economic. Value in there. And this asset's been growing like 40 to 60% year over year for the last like 10 years. You know that where you're gonna get that return. You're happy with 4% from a high yield savings account.

Jon: I just said that like inflation, the true inflation is around 10. You're [00:25:00] actually losing 6% every time. You just sit there pretending like you're getting some, some dividend from, you know, some interest payment from your, from your bank. Like it's a joke. Like really look at these numbers. So I would say, yeah, like.

Jon: And you don't need a lot of it. Like you can buy $1 of Bitcoin to get, you know, the equivalent of what they call a fraction of a Bitcoin satoshi. But like the, there's some common sayings in the Bitcoin community where it's like, stay humble, stack SATs didn't really understand what that meant, but now I do.

Jon: It's like just dollar cost average a little bit every week, every month, every day. Like I've recur dollar cost averaging, recurring buys every day. You know, it's like that's it, you know, you just set it and forget it, let it accumulate over time, and that's outperformed any other investment I've had.

Jon: So it's like any family can do this. There's nobody saying that you cannot do this. So the idea of like. I don't have enough money, or I don't know how to buy which stock to buy all. It's like, no, just buy the Bitcoin. It's the best asset. It's a [00:26:00] commodity. It's like you're even allowed to say it.

Jon: Like you're, I'm not allowed to say go buy a certain stock. I don't have the credential, I don't have all these like, you know, things. But like Bitcoin isn't that, it's not security. It's a, it's digital property. It's like me saying go buy some corn. You know? It's like, it's the same thing. So yeah, it's like, I, I also think about it as like.

Jon: Uh, I don't want this to sound harsh or anything, and I'm not trying to, but it, buying Bitcoin is like a litmus test in terms of like, it tells me that you're curious enough. A lot of people that I know aren't curious. They, you know, it's a big change, so they just kind of write it off.

Jon: And I think that's where I kind of got into the idea for the book. 'cause it's like I'm reading all these books to my son and I'm like, who's actually absorbing it? Like, my son is absorbing the pictures, absorbing the concepts to a certain degree, but it's like reinforcing the stories. Like I can I can almost recite every book that I've read because I've read it 10 times each one.

Jon: Right. So it's like. If I can get a book that is the [00:27:00] language of Bitcoin into the hands where the kid is excited for the pictures, he's excited to learn the letters, but the parents keep reading these things, like what these definitions mean. Then they'll look at the last couple pages in the book where it goes over the myth.

Jon: So I can squash every myth that is commonly, oh, it's only for drug dealers, it's only for, uh, yada yada. And then I give it the like, here's the playbook. Like here's how you can set up your first account. Get your first like $5 in Bitcoin, here's what you should be thinking about to get it off the exchange so that you own it.

Jon: 'cause it's the only thing that you can actually really own. Mm-hmm. And I'll, I'll go off on a tangent here. It's like, one of the big reasons that I'm so passionate about Bitcoin is because I've listened to my wife's Vietnamese or family had to escape Saigon. I have a lot of families who's had to leave their country of origin at some, for whatever reason.

Jon: When they, when I've heard the stories when they've left, they had to take all their possessions with them. By the time they got to Thailand, most of those possessions were stolen and there were even dignity. A lot of times. If [00:28:00] there were women who were taken, to me, that means, what do you have? If you had to leave this country for whatever reason tomorrow, what can you grab?

Jon: And in theory, I can't take my house if my bank accounts get frozen. I can't take my assets in there. My stocks will be frozen. The only thing I can take are the 12 or 24 words in my hardware wallet, and I can go anywhere in the world and get that. Because the money never leaves the system. It's just getting switched from.

Jon: You can think about it as like, I have keys to access this little treasure trust. If I want to give it to Justin, then I do. , Like I give him, I get your address and I send you money. You accept it, it gets, goes from my treasure box to your treasure box, but it never leaves the system. Like that's very cool.

Jon: And then the system is backed by. The world's largest supercomputer, decentralized across the entire globe, so nobody can ever hack it. It's never been hacked. Exchanges have been hacked in the past, but that's just like anything. Like a lot of companies. Data has been hacked, but it's like the [00:29:00] actual functioning system of storing your wealth and nobody can steal it.

Jon: That's been intact for 15 years. That's amazing. Track record, almost no tech has been able to do that. So that's all I'm like from an ownership perspective, that was another big thing. I was like, you should have, from a family sovereignty level, the ability to like have your assets that are yours.

Jon: Like you shouldn't be able to just have some other human tell you, I don't like you anymore. I'm going to take that and then you're done. That is a huge. A red flag to me. And I think more people should have sovereignty over their hard earned energy. 'cause that's all we're doing is exchanging our time, which is the absolute scarcest resource.

Jon: And this is now the most, uh, effective, scarce resource to, to do that transformation and store it for the long term. 

Justin: I almost think sometimes you, and those, are those a great example you brought where you said like your wife's family you know, where they had to leave and flee from wherever they're, you know, whether it's Thailand or other countries where they couldn't, [00:30:00] they could only bring what they could bring in.

Justin: And to think about people in those situations where like that, the ability to, yeah, if you had to. Leave and flew a country. Now you can only, you only have to remember 12 or 24 words and you can take, you know, you can, and then restore your wallet and wherever you are in your new place and be able to bring that, you know, have the ability to have that ownership of that Bitcoin with you is so powerful.

Justin: And I think most people, and maybe it's thing we maybe take for granted here in North America where. You know, and, and I'll speak from like from Canada where you're not, maybe you're not used to or you don't think about, oh yeah, you can get. Your bank accounts can get seized. Well, we had a classic example of that happen back during COVID where, you know, and again, the truckers.

Justin: The truckers, yeah. Where, and you, you may, may, you know, you may not have agreed with what the truckers were doing. You may, you know whether you're for or against whatever, it doesn't really matter. The fact of the matter is the Canadian [00:31:00] government was able to freeze the bank accounts of those people that were involved in that protest.

Justin: And stop them from accessing their, you know, what they thought were their funds and the only way, the only thing that was working or getting to them was Bitcoin that was being sent to them. So, you know, you think about that and you're like, okay, well if I were ever in that situation where if I am protesting something that I feel is that is wrong, that can happen to me, my bank account can get frozen and.

Justin: You can't do anything about it. And so if you think about that, like, the importance of having ownership and sovereign, self sovereignty. With self custody and I think that scares a lot of people. People, you know, think, I don't know if I keep it in a bank account, there's a third party that I guess I can go to if there's a problem with it or whatever.

Justin: And sometimes I think people get scared off by the fact that, oh, it's I'm, I can cus this myself. Like I, I can put it in a. [00:32:00] You know, in a cold wallet and no one, like if some, if I ever, I don't know I'm the only one responsible. Like no one can't go anyone and, um, and get it, resolved, but, but I think people need to look past it and look at the huge benefits of, of having that ownership to direct ownership over the most secure.

Justin: Asset, digital asset in the world. . So for parents who are not yet confident in their own understanding of bitcoin. One I recommend. Yeah they get a copy of your book because that helps them understand. There you go.

Justin: There it is. 

Jon: I'm excited. This is 

Jon: the proof copy. , So I'm, I'm looking at any, uh, little changes I wanna make. But yeah, I mean, I mean, from a parent standpoint, I thought really deeply about this and, and I use my dad as the test case because my dad's been, he's retired, he's older.

Jon: I've talked to him till I'm blue in the face about Bitcoin. Absolutely. Didn't care didn't make his money. And one of the things [00:33:00] that Michael would always say is like. Those who get Bitcoin have a need to know. And my dad doesn't have a need to know. Right. He's retired. Like a lot of the things that he did to make his wealth, he's already done.

Jon: He is comfortable with that. I'm a different camp, right? Like I'm younger, like I still have a lot more growth in the finances. So that's why it's like what it allowed me to question, oh, is real estate the way that I make my money? Is it just keeping it in index funds or is it individual mag seven stocks?

Jon: Is it, you know, something else? And that led me down to like. What we already talked about with like, the best asset in our opinion, or in my opinion. But what I did see when I gave him the, one of the digital copies of the book when I was just starting it, was he started to understand the lexicon of like, whoa, that's what volatility is actually a good thing, you know, vol, uh, or decentralization.

Jon: Why is that a good thing? Like all these different words that I take for granted now, like, like you said, an address or, ownership, right? It's like, oh, dad, you realize you [00:34:00] don't really own those stocks. You just have claim to them, but you don't own it. Like I, you can do something wrong and get those assets fr frozen.

Jon: And it's like, oh, I didn't think about that. Or How come you're always paying so much like California State Tax Dad? Oh, you know, it's like you're not sending kids to school anymore. Like, oh, okay, well. You know, like all these things where it's like if you speak the language in the way that he sees the world, then it's going to modify.

Jon: So when he was reading this, now he's not a anti Bitcoin. Like it took him to learn the language. So I was like, great, this is exactly the use case. The first thing, if you're even, you have to be a. Remotely curious. So I figure like you're gonna get somebody who's gonna gift you this book to get the trust, and I'm gonna trust that person who gave it to me.

Jon: I'm going to flip through it. I'm going to, uh, you know, see some of these words. It's not gonna scare me anymore. And then like over time, you'll see the back pages and that gives you the fuller context and the next steps and take it step by step. That I think is like probably where I, I think most people need to start, is like, we're all kids.

Jon: Baby steps step by step. No. Like, [00:35:00] hey, go buy a co cold wallet and go get, you know, go memorize your keys. The worst thing to say. Yeah. Like, it's just like, let's just go with the basics 

Justin: yeah. And I'll, I'll tell you a story like when, I remember when I first started to learn about Bitcoin and this was back in early 2024, but I.

Justin: Took that as an opportunity. Like, you know, I got curious and I also wanted to go down that same journey with my older son. And so we started to read about, like, I think I borrowed a book. It was like Bitcoin for Dummies and it was almost like we would read it together and I'm learning at the same time.

Justin: He's learning, you know, he, he may, he's picking up stuff I'm picking up, stuff. And it's a way for you both. To in parallel learn about something together. And so, yeah, I think just being able to get familiar with the terminology, start to understand and relate it to, you know, you, you talked about how your dad related in almost like his terms and make him question some of, you know, some of the [00:36:00] assumptions that he has.

Justin: Uh, so tho that's a great way to, to get started on that and then go from there. , If you could pass three core values to your kids as a, when it comes down to money, is there is there core values that you feel are important and why?

Jon: Yeah, I'm pretty sure I put it in the back page just so I never forget it. It was, um, for my, my kids, their name is Coven ever. So for coven ever may you grow up free, sovereign and unshakeable. That's kind of where I, I want them to, understand that they're converting their hard earned time on this planet into , a way that's almost like a battery, that they can store their energy to go do the hard things that they want to achieve in life.

Jon: I want them to be able to have jurisdiction over what they do. . , So that's kind of the principle. It's like they need the courage and the courage comes from having that safety net of, you know, finances. That they're not like in a scarcity mindset, , or like a survivalship mindset. I want [00:37:00] them to see the world with abundance.

Jon: And money is opportunity, money is energy. So you're basically taking energy converting, like say for example, you're converting the Bitcoin into some opportunity that you can go change the world and do something with. And I want them to be able to do that on their own terms. And then I want them to be able to have, good ethics behind that.

Jon: So that's like also a job that I have to do. It's like you're, you're on this planet to help other people thrive. Like that's if you can make other people's lives better, you're gonna get, you know. Like the monetary value from that transaction. 'cause you're making their lives easier. They're making their lives have meaning, like whatever you choose to do.

Jon: Um, so there's a lot of like a cross blend between like Bitcoin and entrepreneurship is what I wanna teach. And if they don't go become entrepreneurs, that's on them. I don't, I'm not here to dictate what they are going to do in life, but I wanna make sure that they have the absolute best system possible so that they can go do what they want in life.

Justin: Well, that's great. So I want to transition over to now our rapid fire round. , What's one book that you have read that have you've enjoyed and that you recommend every, everyone should read? 

Jon: Poor Charlie's Almanac is a favorite of mine.

Jon: , That's the Witten wisdom of Charlie Munger. I think there's some really good, profound, , life lessons and the way his, he has his mindset. The thing though about Charlie Munger when it comes to Bitcoin is he was. Pretty much super anti Bitcoin. Mm. So for a long time, I kind of didn't go back into trying to think from like, kind of like first principles of why certain assets are the way they are.

Jon: , So I, I would recommend the Bitcoin standard as a, an antidote to some of the negative cryp, , cryptography or Bitcoin kind of thinking. , So those two books together would be a really good basis. 

Justin: I was just listening to a podcast today that, um, so that Bitcoin standard, author, , he just came out with, or he's coming out with the Gold Standard, but the gold standard's, a fiction book.

Justin: It's not necessarily, , nonfiction, but, great, great book for everyone. Check out there. What's the best piece of advice you've ever been given?

Jon: The one that comes into my head, . It was from my first real boss. , He was just like, you'll never. , Not have a job if you solve problems. So that kind of was the filter in which I'm like, okay, everything I have to do if I wanna be valuable is solving a problem. And then I just started seeing problems everywhere.

Jon: And then that kind of like led me down eventually the like entrepreneurial, entrepreneurial track. Because I just realized that if you just pick big enough problems that help enough people, then that's valuable. And then, you know, there's capitalism and mechanics and companies that kind of go along with it to make it, , allow you to bring other people with you and get money and, and do stuff.

Jon: But it's like at the end of the day, you're always trying to find like. What's that problem that we're trying to solve that's valuable that people wanna give you money for? Absolutely. 

Justin: , If you could sit down and have dinner with anyone dead or alive, who would it be and why?

Jon: That's fascinating. I think I've learned so much recently, so I have some recency bias, , that I would wanna learn from. Michael Sailor. I just think he mm-hmm. I could just listen to him talk. I don't have to talk, and it's just, yeah. So many podcasts that I would just wanna soak up all the stuff that he's been doing.

Jon: I, but I would like to, if I could, for a person who's dead would be like Ben Franklin. I just think he, he's just like the early Elon Musk. There's like a few people that, it's like Da Vinci, . Yeah, DaVinci, Ben Franklin, Elon, Michael Sailor. There's all kind of like tech focused, but different time periods would be pretty sweet.

Jon: That'd be pretty, that'd 

Justin: be a pretty, uh, neat dinner party to have with all those around the table. , And then finally, what's one conversation that you recommend parents have with their kids today about money? 

Jon: This is a, this is a big one. I, , , the basics. Go a long way. So like the fundamentals and I'm, I mean, there's parents, some parents that don't even have the fundamentals down for themselves, right.

Jon: And they've figured out too late. But just the concept of having your dollar work for you, like the richest man in Babylon type thing. Like learn to pay yourself first. There was a book that I read, , when I was doing some business stuff, it was like Profit First. That was like a, a really cool book where it was just like, pay, pay yourself the 5%.

Jon: The stuff, the cash flow that comes in, you know, get your taxes, money paid off. And then it's like, then think about operating expense. 'cause that operating expense will eat up everything if you don't start paying yourself and if you don't start kind of like taking some of the money to put into some other asset or something like that.

Jon: So it's, I would say from, from. Parents standpoint, it's like teach the kid, like if they get stuff from their grandparents for their birthday, you know, pay yourself first 50% of the $20 that comes in and then the other can go towards something else. You know, it's like just learn to accumulate and teach that, that compound, , interest type thing.

Jon: 'cause that, that's so powerful. Like, or the early start and the longer you go. In the world of money. Yeah. The better it is. So it's like you, you just gotta get that in the head early and not be like those sneakers that are cool because everybody else thinks they're cool. That's not a good return on your money, you know?

Jon: And just learn that before. Yeah. You're old. Yeah, absolutely. , 

Justin: Where can people follow your journey, learn about your work, or pick up a copy of my first Bitcoin book. 

Jon: Oh yeah, that, that'd be amazing. , I've sold. , Since it's released a few weeks ago, sold like 50 copies now. So I'm just like really ecstatic, like that's 50 x more than I was thinking.

Jon: I just really made it for my son. Like I don't really make any money on the book. So it's just kind of like, it's been fun to hear people like they just didn't have the words of the whole bitcoin. Ethos, and it's like the parents have been texting me and they're just like, I've learned something from this book.

Jon: I had no idea. And then the kids, of course, are, are enjoying it as well. So Amazon's the easiest way. , My first Bitcoin book, , is a big orange book. , It's like 10 bucks, but yeah, and it just, there would be the best. , If you wanna reach out to me, , it's just contact at john stenstrom, JON , dot com.

Jon: So. Cool. 

Justin: Yeah. And we'll have that in the show notes as well. And yeah, I definitely recommend everyone pick up a copy of the book. , It's such a great starting point for both the kids and the parents, you know, to get that terminology, , around Bitcoin, , introduced and, and then have that as discussion.

Justin: , , It's fantastic resource for everyone out there. So John, yeah, I appreciate you coming on the show today, , for all your insights and sharing your own journey and your background, your entrepreneurial. , Journey, your, your family values, , , and then of course, , your how to build financial foundations early and, and bitcoin for families.

Justin: And, and thank you for all that you've done to help, , the community, the bitcoin community, but also the parent community at large with this resource. , Thank you so much for coming on today. 

Jon: Thank you, Justin. What you're doing with this podcast is really remarkable and you're helping a lot of people, so thank you.

Jon: Thank you.