MoneyDad Podcast
MoneyDad Podcast
Job at 14, Confidence at 40: Building Financial Independence in Girls Early | Lisa Clements
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#085. In this episode, Justin sits down with Lisa Clements, founder of Clear Springs Wealth and a former corporate HR leader at Meta and Accenture, who left a nearly 24-year corporate career to help single women build wealth on their own terms. Lisa brings both professional expertise and lived experience — she's built significant financial independence as a single woman herself, and that perspective shapes everything she teaches.
We dig into why Lisa believes girls need the same expectation boys often get by default: get a job in high school, start managing your own money, and make your money mistakes while you're still under your parents' roof — not for the first time in a college dorm. Lisa shares real stories from her own family and clients about what happens when daughters are — or aren't — brought into financial conversations early, including why opening up the family budget at 14 can build confidence instead of anxiety.
We also cover:
- Why Lisa sees "learned helplessness" show up differently in women around money — and how to tell if it's authentic or a self-protective story
- The decision-making frameworks she teaches clients (and her nieces and nephews) for big money choices — the timeline test, the flexibility filter, and the future-self test
- How everyday moments — a disputed grade, a tough coach conversation, friend drama — are actually financial advocacy training in disguise
- What the Stanford marshmallow experiment gets wrong, and what it means for how we build financial patience in kids
- Practical, low-pressure ways to start a money conversation with your daughter this week
Whether you're raising a daughter, a son, or both, this conversation offers a clear-eyed look at where financial confidence really comes from — and how small, early experiences with money and self-advocacy compound over a lifetime.
Connect with Lisa:
Website: clearspringswealth.com
Instagram/TikTok/YouTube: @clearspringswealth
Email: lisa@clearspringswealth.com
Show notes and more at:
Lisa Clements
Justin: [00:00:00] My guest today is Lisa Clements, founder of Clear Springs Wealth. Lisa helps single women transform their financial futures through personalized, relatable financial planning, addressing the unique challenges that so many traditional advisors completely miss. She brings both professional expertise and personal experience as someone who has independently built significant wealth as a single woman.
Justin: Lisa is also based in Kansas City. , Lisa, welcome to the Money Dad Podcast.
Lisa: Thank you so much, Justin.
Justin: Well, I'm so happy to have you here and chat about, , your experiences and, , and there's so much that I wanna get into. Let's start off with, uh,, maybe a look back on your, , childhood.
Justin: What were some of the early mentors or early experiences that you had being exposed to money, uh, and finances that really kinda helped shaped your approach or your thoughts around money?
Lisa: My dad was [00:01:00] in commercial real estate, still is. Mm-hmm. Um, and so we had a lot of feast or famine. You know, the income was very, uh, unpredictable, but as kids we never felt that because Dad would typically, um...
Lisa: You know, my mom was at home.
Lisa: Mm-hmm.
Lisa: And so Dad would make the money, Mom managed the money.
Lisa: Hmm.
Lisa: And so it was great in that I saw both of my parents involved in managing the money in our family, and my dad never shared, you know, if he was ever stressed about money, he didn't show it to us kids.
Lisa: Hmm.
Lisa: And so the message was always, "You can always make more money.
Lisa: We can always make more. Oh, yeah, oh, you're running out? Okay, work harder. You can make more."
Lisa: .
Lisa: And so that was a second formative message to me, was [00:02:00] you can always, you know, well, we, we didn't get it that time, but we can always make more in the future.
Lisa: So it's that you can always make more money, and Mom and Dad are both involved in the decisions.
Justin: That's, that's great that you saw that perspective where both Mom and Dad were involved in, in money and making those decisions. I'm thinking back to my childhood. When you said your dad was in commercial real estate, my, my dad was in residential real estate. Uh, you know, he did that for a bulk of his career, and it was feast or famine.
Justin: Um-
Justin: Mm-hmm ...
Justin: but, uh, but I almost got the perspective of I saw the stress that my dad was going through. And so, uh, so it's a, you know, different, different upbringing for sure. Um, but interesting. , Both parents, um, you got to see that both, that they were involved in those types of decisions around money, uh, which is great.
Justin: , , you know, you had a successful corporate career, uh, working at places like Meta or Accenture. What inspired you to leave your corporate career and [00:03:00] start Clear Springs Wealth, and why focus specifically on single women?
Lisa: I, , loved my corporate career. Uh, it was 20, almost 24 years, , in corporate HR, and I got to live all around the world, , manage large teams, small teams, work on some really exciting, you know, in, in exciting growth environments. , And it, there just came a time in my 40s where my family was in the Midwest.
Lisa: Well, I'm not married and I don't have kids. I am very close to my family, and both my brother and sister are married with kids.
Justin: Mm.
Lisa: And I was living out in California, and I was like, "I'm missing it."
Justin: Yeah.
Lisa: I'm mi- yeah, I'm missing these kids and their kindergarten graduation, which is hilarious to me, but we do those now.
Lisa: And, um, you know, all the- ... [00:04:00] the soccer games where the kids don't know which direction they're running in. Yeah. And the, you know, the basketball games where they get their first free throw. And, uh, so it really... Work was becoming s- more, uh, it, more stressful, more stressful, and then I'm also feeling more disconnected, more disconnected from the-
Lisa: Mm-hmm
Lisa: the people that mattered the most in my life. So, , so thankful for the time at Meta, and, uh, that b- helped me, along with the time at Accenture, build up enough of a nest egg that I could come back to Kansas City with the intention to take a, take a year off. You know? Yeah. Take time, figure out, you know, think of it like a sabbatical and really evaluate what's next.
Justin: And so when you figured out what's next, you, you know, you launched Clear Springs Wealth. -
Lisa: Yeah, I tried a few, a couple things. Okay. First I started, , I got my coaching cert- certification, and I [00:05:00] thought, "I'm gonna do leadership coaching." So I launched that company, and then, uh, was like, "Eh, this isn't..." Like, it didn't f- it, it wasn't quite, didn't feel quite right.
Lisa: Like, I hadn't quite hit my stride.
Justin: Yeah.
Lisa: And really, , I, on the side, got into some trading groups and learned to trade options, and w- was just fascinated with that and with, you know, having Accenture stock and Meta stock and-
Lisa: Yeah ...
Lisa: I needed to know about it. And, uh, was having one of those moments, and my girlfriends were like, "If you love this so much, you should help us.
Lisa: Like, we hate this stuff. We don't wanna talk about, we don't care about." Yeah. "I know nothing about," you know? And I was like, "Really? You..." So it was one of those where it was kind of, like, group sourced, the idea-
Justin: Yeah ...
Lisa: of being a financial advisor. So I looked into it and thought, "What do I have to do?" You know, "Is this something really that I'd enjoy?"
Lisa: And [00:06:00] sure enough, you know, the more I res- I started off by trying to r- um, or actually writing a white paper- Hmm ... about the needs of single women, , in their finances. And so I interviewed, you know, 14 different single women.
Justin: Mm-hmm.
Lisa: Different ages, different... Some divorced, some widowed, some never married, and, um, realized that there, there's a, a piece of financial advice that's missing for women.
Lisa: It's, , relatability. It's a, -
Lisa: It's that whole we need to be able to see people like us in a, in where we're going. Does that make sense?
Justin: So need to see people like you in where you're going. So in terms of being able to relate to the person on the other side of, -
Lisa: Yeah, like how important it is for female kid, uh, girls playing basketball to see the WNBA.
Justin: Yeah, yeah. Right.
Lisa: You know? Like- Yes ... we need them to have role [00:07:00] models.
Justin: Yes.
Lisa: And not that I was necessarily a, a... or hold myself out to be a role model, but more so, "Hey, I'm doing this with you." I am a single woman who's never had kids.
Lisa: Mm-hmm.
Lisa: Who has had to make every financial decision independently, and I get how weighty that can be.
Lisa: Mm-hmm.
Lisa: And, and I would love nothing more than to help take that weight off of other single women's minds, you know? Yeah. O- off their shoulders, to come alongside of them and walk with them through it. They're absolutely capable of doing it by themselves, but they don't have to.
Justin: Right. They've got people that, like you, to lean on and s- and get support from, um, who's someone who's walked in their shoes and, and done that as well.
Justin: So I, I love that. Exactly. What, what would you say are some of the biggest, , challenges, financial or otherwise, that single women face that married [00:08:00] couples don't even think about?
Lisa: . The lack of safety net, that any career changes have to be very carefully planned. We can't... Y- you know, there's that... The one thing I've, I've often been envious of is I'd love to have a husband to be like, "Honey, I w- I'd like to go back and get my doctorate," or, "I'd like to go back and go to-" Right ... "Can you carry the financial load for a while?" You know.
Justin: Yeah.
Lisa: And, and granted, that's not possible e- even in a lot of married relationships.
Lisa: Right. Yeah. So I... But of course, as a single person, I romanticize the thought.
Justin: Yeah.
Lisa: And think, "God, it must be so nice to have somebody that you could lean on-
Justin: Yeah ...
Lisa: if you wanna make a change." I, I felt, at least, more of a responsibility to aggressively grow my career.
Lisa: Mm.
Lisa: Like, nobody was gonna come in and save me.
Lisa: I wasn't, I wasn't expecting a, , the knight in shining armor, [00:09:00] so I thought, "I, I really have to own this. I have to push to get the best performance ratings."
Justin: Right. "
Lisa: I have to be watching the job market. I have to..." Uh, it's well-known fact that in order to grow your income more quickly, you need to make j- jumps from company to company.
Justin: Right.
Lisa: And it's not easy. It's not... You know, it may require moving to California, moving to New York, uh, living in India, living in the Philippines, traveling through Eastern Europe. Like, it- Yeah ... it could involve all of those things. But you... You know, I wanted to and felt the pressure to jump on all those 'cause I needed to be, , i- increasing salary, taking- Yeah
Lisa: the opportunities nobody else wanted to take.
Justin: Right. And it... Yeah. So- 'Cause it, because it all... Right. It... 'Cause it's all on your own shoulders, right? You've got... You don't have someone else that you can kind of, um, share that load or share that [00:10:00] responsibility with. Uh, so definitely- Yeah ... sounds like, yeah, you need to be more aggressive on that.
Justin: , Most of my l- You know, many of my listeners are, are parents, moms or dads, you know, raising their kids right now, and I want to get into something that, , or that's underexplored, and that's, you know, are we raising our sons and daughters differently when it comes to money or...
Justin: and, you know, should we be? And so, you know, your, your clientele, I assume, is g- You know, it's a wide range of women, but single women, professional women, successful, independent women. In your work with your clients or, , or in your work with women, do you see patterns in terms of things that they consistently weren't taught growing up or messages that they absorbed about money that have held them back?
Lisa: Outstanding question. I would say that it's, , there's a variety of attitudes that I've, I've come [00:11:00] across. One of them is a learned helplessness.
Justin: Mm.
Lisa: Like, "I don't, I don't care about money. I just don't even... You know, it's not important to me to be rich. I don't need to get my hair colored every other week.
Lisa: I don't ne-" You know, like, it's this, um, kind of like a I don't know. I, I question the authenticity of it because part of, uh, of me thinks that it's this kind of, I don't think I can really achieve that much wealth, so I'm, my, the story I'm telling myself is I don't like to have a lot of money. I don't need to.
Lisa: It's, it, I'm not one of those people who's- Mm-hmm ... all about getting, you know, getting more money. That, ugh, that's not me. And I think, isn't that, you know... And, and for, for some people, I think for some women, that very well is an authentic, real, you [00:12:00] know, true to their core. But I also have come across women where I question and say, "Huh, you know, is that truly how they feel or is that a story they're telling themselves-
Lisa: because they feel inadequate, they feel like there's no way they could ever achieve real wealth, you know, i- in their lifetime?" So, so this, this-
Justin: So it's, so it's almost like a narrative that they're, , coming up with to, , match or, or align with, uh, you know, with their expectations or, or... Yeah.
Lisa: Yeah, take the pressure off themselves.
Lisa: Yeah. Um, yeah. Another one is I see- definitely this is much more consistent across women is the idea that women save more, and so... And save too much. So I have-
Justin: Is that... Sorry, and your... And is that true? So w- in your experience, women do save more or, or less?
Lisa: I'd say that true that they save more.
Justin: Hmm, interesting.
Lisa: So I've had women come in with [00:13:00] 50,000, $80,000 in savings.
Lisa: Hmm.
Lisa: And I'm going, "Wow, okay." Like, that is way more than 12 months of- Yeah ... you know, for some of them, that's more than, you know, six months' emergency fund or eight months' emergency fund. 'Cause I even... I'm cool with women having a larger emergency fund or single people having a larger emergency fund than, than most because they don't have the backup plan.
Lisa: Mm-hmm. But it's dangerous when the... You know, you need to have more of that money in the market growing, compounding year on year- Yeah ... so they'll be able to afford retirement if that's what they choose to do. Hmm. So that's a, a trend, and I don't, I don't know if that is attributed to how we parent boys and girls or if that's just a how g- you know, girls are programmed versus boys are programmed.
Lisa: I'm not sure.
Justin: [00:14:00] It's, it's fascinating to me to, you know, uh... And I'll give you the example that, um, you know, in our pre-chat, just kind of chat- chatting about how, you know, I was at a parent-teacher interview, , yesterday and, you know, with one of my kids, , and met another parent, and we were talking about how their...
Justin: how his daughter was in a robotics kind of after-school program where there, you know, boys and girls, and . so what he had mentioned to me was like the boys in the program are doing the kind of the more technical coding or, or working on those types of, types of things, whereas, um, his daughter and her friends were working on more some of the softer, , elements of, of being as part of that program, where it is, you know, the presentation of whatever they were looking to build or, you know, how we're gonna, communicate the ideas around this.
Justin: So it was... A- and it was interesting to me just to pick up on that sort of gender, um, difference that might have been there that, you know, we may, , knowingly or unknowingly [00:15:00] be doing or it's just maybe part of, you know, just the innate nature of what, you know, boys and girls are, are interested in. Um, so yeah.
Lisa: Yeah. Yeah, I f- I find it particularly fascinating coming from a, you know, having been a, um, director over large teams and trying to think about how you manage the men on your team versus the women on your team. Hmm. And so there was a swath of reading, I'd say, in the- In the early 2000s, like the, the Sheryl Sandberg book Lean In and more girl boss.
Lisa: Mm-hmm. And you know, this whole idea that, um society has programmed our girls to be a certain way- Mm-hmm ... to show up as meek and mild and submissive. And, and what's r- interesting to me about that is at first I was like, "Yes, yes, that is so tr- oh, it's society. We're all at fault, la, la, la." Mm. You know? And, and it's like [00:16:00] now, 10 to 15 years later, I'm going, "Okay, now wait a minute.
Lisa: Is it- ... is it really that we've parented our children so terribly, and that we've- Yeah ... you know, created girls who are, who are just i- incapable and, and, uh, you know, we've, we've thrown dolls in their faces, and so now they all wanna be m- You know? Yeah. No, there's a, there's a lot more to it as far as, you know, socioeconomic status, um, just the innate, uh, what women, you know, are good at versus what- Mm
Lisa: men are good... Like, we, we can't deny that scientifically we are built differently. Mm-hmm. And so anyway, yeah, so I think it is really, it, it's a fascinating discussion because here you've got women in a STEM program, a robotics program- Yep ... which, ugh, is a big push, you know?
Lisa: Yep.
Lisa: Show girls they can code. Show girls...
Lisa: And yet, and then they're in this program, this STEM program, [00:17:00] they're gravitating towards the softer skills. Yep. Is that because every girl in that class really truly wants to do the softer skills, or is it because half the girls do, and the other half that wanna code wanna stick with their friends-
Justin: Yeah,
Justin: right
Lisa: and
Justin: so it's peer pressure. And, and, and it's the whole peer pressure thing, right. 'Cause a- and so what, you know, what, um, this particular parent was mentioning to me was that, yeah, you know, uh, his daughter wanted to stick with her friends. And so is it, exactly, is it more peer pressure that they didn't-
Justin: wanna cross lines, um, uh, at that point in time? So i- it's, it's, it's fascinating. Do you find that, , , women that come to you, and those with maybe lower financial confidence, do you think that it's a, usually, is it a, is it a knowledge gap? Meaning, like, I don't, I just don't know, like, so, you know, how to do this.
Justin: Is it a confidence gap, meaning, you know, they might know it, but [00:18:00] they just don't have the, you know, the confidence to do it? Or is it something deeper around how they relate to money emotionally, or, or not? .
Lisa: I think it's all three.
Lisa: I hate to take the easy way out. Yeah. Uh, but it really is.
Lisa: I have, I'm thinking of one client in particular where it was a knowledge gap. And once she, you know, once she understands more, she's totally getting into it. Yeah. She's like, "Oh, can you send me that presentation afterwards? I wanna go over that. I wanna, you know, let's talk about the retirement stool." You know, and she's 30-something years old.
Lisa: Right. The retirement income stool. And I'm like, "Sure, we can talk." You know, but it's just she was never exposed to it. Whereas I have another client who she just is not interested in it.
Justin: Mm.
Lisa: She knows she needs money. She knows she, you know, would love to have a work optional life at some point, but gosh, the topic itself is just blah.
Lisa: Right. She doesn't really care [00:19:00] about it. Um, so and then, you know, I would say... Luckily, I would say the least occurrence of the three is the lack of confidence. Okay. I think we've been doing a much better job of giving women confidence. Um, I think for them it's more just the, the, the unknown. Like I th- I'm pretty sure I'm on track, but I'm not sure I'm on...
Lisa: You know, can you check? Can you... You know, I don't know what I need to be able to eventually stop doing what I'm doing and do what I really wanna do.
Justin: . Okay. So. Okay. That's, that's fair. Yeah. , In your interviews with successful female leaders, you know, that you have on your podcast, And again, I, I w- I'm curious to see if you've noticed any sort of patterns or, in how, you know, that helped them achieve that success financially or, or otherwise in terms of, you know, again, maybe [00:20:00] patterns that you've seen whether it's in their, how they've been raised, grew up, discussions around career, financials, money.
Justin: Anything, anything at all that, , that sticks out to you in terms of a pattern that you've seen?
Lisa: I've seen a consistent expectation of these women that they were going to enter the workforce.
Lisa: They were going to get a college education. They were... It was just a foregone concl- like, they never had that, uh, that, uh, crisis at 18 years old, like, "Do I wanna go to school or..."
Lisa: It was just understood they were going on to school. Of course they were gonna get a college degree, just like their brother was gonna get a college degree. Yeah. So it was a very, um, egalitarian... They mostly came from eq- you know, egalitarian households where- Mm-hmm ... what was expected of the boys was expected of the women as well.
Lisa: Another thing I found was that, [00:21:00] and, and this one's, this one's funny because I, yeah, I'm very close to my parents and have, have, you know, done well independently. , But a lot of these women were n- you know, not coddled. They were not, you know- Mm-hmm ... they were, um, I, I'm thinking of a friend of mine who is head of talent acquisition at Netflix, you know, and she left Africa to come to the US- Yeah
Lisa: to finish advanced degrees to... And she still goes back to Africa and visits her family, and they're close-knit and everything. Yeah. But it was like, gosh, can you imagine-
Justin: Right ... the things that happened? Brand new, yeah, brand new, yeah. I, I, I always admire people who can just pick up, go to another country, settle in, I mean, whether it's study, work in that separate country, you know, build new roots there.
Justin: Um, yeah. The, it, it's, it takes- Yeah, it's just- ... a tremendous amount of courage and, and, uh, resilience to be able to do that. [00:22:00]
Lisa: Yeah. And I think it's, it's so fascinating because I wish I could tell parents, you know, "Well, here's the formula."
Justin: Yeah.
Lisa: Here, you know, you need to make sure that they're independent, that they have the grit and the gumption to be able to go out on their own.
Lisa: But yet every... What makes it so tricky for a parent is the fact that every kid is so different- Mm-hmm ... and every girl, you know, that if you took that tough love, "All right, so where... You know, what country are you gonna go get your degree in? What da, da, da..." You know, like you- Yeah ... you could take that approach with some girls, and that creates insecurity.
Lisa: That creates, , an unsafe, uh, you know, I, I'm not clear what the expectations are environment. So I, it kinda leads to that we have to be talking about w- why we're parenting the way we are with our kids-
Justin: Mm-hmm ...
Lisa: like if I, if I [00:23:00] said the advice that I have for parents after watching my, you know, numerous nieces and nephews raise up, and the conversations I've had with them, and, and how they relate to their parents with money, I wish there was one script I could advise. I wish there was one bit of advice that's magical.
Lisa: And because every kid is so different, there isn't a magic pill. But what does help is when a parent will say, , , daughter who's 14 years old, ", I, I want you to look for a job. You know, I need you to help either pay your gas." And the fact that she's 14 and a cheerleader and involved at school, whereas, you know, th- there was, there's a part of, I think, every, maybe not every dad, but, uh, you know, that wants to, "Well, she's so, she's so involved in school and we don't w- we don't wanna hurt that, and we want..."
Lisa: [00:24:00] Well, you know, you, you can't treat her different than you treated the boys, and when the boys turned 14, there wasn't a question in your mind they were gonna get a job and pay their own insurance and gas on the car.
Justin: Right.
Lisa: And so why would that be different- For the girl. But where I'm heading with that is the fact that s- I think parents should tell the kid, like, "Hey, I want you to get a job because...
Lisa: It's not because I, uh, don't value your cheerleading and your other activities. I want you to have the experience of earning money for yourself and watching how that flows so- Mm-hmm ... quickly into your wallet and out of your wallet. And that in itself- Right. You know, and so I want you to experience that while you have your mom and I here-
Justin: Mm-hmm
Lisa: to help you to, you know, to, to go through those, you know, to make decisions with your money. I want you to have that experience while you've still got us here to [00:25:00] help you make those decisions versus waiting till you get out of the house and you're in college and you're working your college job, and that's the first time you ever have to make decisions about your money.
Justin: Yeah. That's great because you want them, while they're still under your roof, you want them to be able to, , make those decisions, learn from those decisions, make mistakes with those decisions so that you can help , guide them, in a way- ... that will help them, whereas versus just kind of letting them do it all on their own.
Justin: So I think that's definitely helpful. You, touched on, you know, so making, decisions, and I'd love to get your thoughts around, you know, how do we, how do we, um, have frameworks or think about making decisions around money? So, you know, thinking about whether we wanna use the money for now versus later or, or what we're gonna be doing with the money.
Justin: You know, is it something, , you know, we're spending money because of our friends and, and we [00:26:00] feel like we need to keep up- Yeah ... with the Joneses. , How would you suggest we think about frameworks around some of those decisions that we make around money?
Lisa: Yeah, I, I think that in itself, you hit the nail on the head. Like, it is so important that we're not only teaching financial literacy. Like, here's, here's a checking account. This is a savings account. This is a high-yield savings account. This is what the stock market is. This is what... So there's all that basic financial knowledge.
Lisa: But I think the second component of that, which is just as critical, if not sometimes more critical, is the decision literacy. It's how do we make decisions? How do you make decisions about money when it gets emotional or it gets complicated or uncertain? What are you gonna use? What tool belt are you gonna rely on?
Lisa: And so some of the things that I think are really helpful or [00:27:00] the questions that I would encourage parents to teach their kids would be, , one called the, the timeline test, which is when do you need the money back?
Lisa: You know, the money that you just made, for us to make a smart decision about whether or not it just stays in your checking, it goes into a high-yield savings, or we put it into an Acorn, you know, or some investing account somewhere, is based on what the money's gonna be used for.
Lisa: So that's a timeline test. Yeah. Another one is a flexibility filter. Does this choice increase your options or reduce your options? So if you spend money on this, so for example, spending all your allowance Versus saving some of that- Mm-hmm ... does that give you more options in the future or less options in the future?
Justin: Mm.
Lisa: And the kid will go, "Well, you know, if I spend it all n- now, then less option." Okay, that's [00:28:00] totally cool if that's what you choose to do. Mm-hmm. But be aware that you're limiting your options in the future. Mm. , It's like buying one expensive toy versus multiple small toys.
Justin: Yep.
Lisa: You know, so think about... C- 'cause it grow- when you grow, when they grow up, then they can look at housing decisions with that same filter.
Lisa: You know, does buying this house give me more options in the future- Mm ... or less options in the future? Does buying this car versus, you know, does that give me more opt- So I love that flexibility filter.
Justin: Yep.
Lisa: Um- Love
Justin: that ...
Lisa: another one is a future self test. Like, will future me, will future you be relieved or stressed that you made this decision?
Justin: Mm.
Lisa: So for example, um, taking out significant student loans versus taking a year off to work and go, and then going back to school. [00:29:00] Think of yourself 10 years from now. Will you be relieved that you have the degree and you got it done in four years? Or will you be stressed because you're carrying an, an additional 30 to 60 to, you know, God knows how much- Yeah
Lisa: in student loan debt? Right. So it's the, you know, helping them imagine their future self, for example.
Justin: Yep. , It's reframing it so that they can envision not, you know, just the straight up, you know, here's the decision. But yeah, thinking about how, what the implications are, what are the consequences, how they will feel about that decision in the future.
Lisa: Yeah. Yeah, and then the one I, I love that I think a lot of parents teach by using the, "If your friends go jump off a bridge, do you go jump off a bridge?" Yeah.
Justin: Most kids are like, "Yeah, sure."
Lisa: Yeah. Yeah. Is this a you decision or a peer pressure decision? Mm. And, you know, a- if your kids are in, [00:30:00] are older, I think it's easier to use words like identity and is this a, is this building your identity or is this helping you match the identity of your friends?
Lisa: A, a young kid wouldn't get that. You could use, you know, "Is this what you really want or what your friends are all doing?"
Justin: Mm.
Lisa: And it's that whole, um,
Lisa: everybody else got their phone upgraded, I need my phone upgraded, you know. Everyone else is playing Fortnite, how come I can't play Fortnite at night? Yeah.
Lisa: Everyone else is-
Justin: My, yeah. My, my oldest son, yeah. Well, he, his, his thing is, like, sleep. Everyone else, everyone else in my class is, like, sleeping late. I'm like, "Yeah, but I'm not everyone else's parents. I'm your parent." So it's- Right. Right. They can, I don't care what they're doing. I care what I'm do- what you're doing.
Justin: Yeah. Yeah.
Lisa: Exactly.
Justin: Yeah. Exactly.
Lisa: Yeah.
Lisa: So those are a few of the, the frames or the questions I would teach them to go through [00:31:00] whenever they're making big money decisions, because they, those frameworks help us. I, I still am using frameworks like that to make decisions today. And do I, do I wanna do this, you know, thing in my yard because-
Lisa: I want the neighbors to think I take good care of my house or do I, you know? Like- Yeah ... every decision is one of those
Lisa: kind of decisions, yeah.
Justin: That, that's awesome. Yeah, yeah, you're, you're so right. It's so important, not necessarily just to get the financial literacy, but to think about, uh, what's very important in terms of having a decision framework.
Justin: And you listed a, a, a, some great ones there. Timeline test, flexibility filter, future self, and, , you or peer pressure test. Those, so those are some of the things that, uh, you know, parents out there can, can use to, when they're speaking with their kids and helping them approach decisions. I, I lo- I love that.
Justin: , Well, let's talk about financial habits. , Financial habits or financial [00:32:00] mindsets. What would you say is, you know, some of either the most single most important or some of the more important financial habits or mindsets that we should be instilling in our kids and, and, or maybe even more specifically daughters so that, you know, they can develop into confident, independent, , women, single women or, or, or women down the road?
Justin: that can make great decisions with their money
Lisa: Financial habits that I think are really important for women is that they, they do work in high school. I, and granted, y- I, I know that could be controversial. , But again, it goes back to that whole- Kids,
Justin: w- women should be, everyone should be working in elementary.
Justin: But maybe that's just me. Yeah. That, I mean, yeah. Anyways, go on.
Lisa: Yeah, but it's that whole, like, I think it's really [00:33:00] important that it's, that women, or that girls- Yeah ... are getting jobs just like boys are getting jobs in high school. Mm-hmm. Because we need the kids to have the experience with money, like we said, while they're under the, the protection of mom and dad, while they can be corrected or be bailed out or, you know- Yeah
Lisa: that they, they get those experiences. So I think the working is really important. , As far as financial habits, that, , one thing that's really important to me is tithing. Mm-hmm. And so I've talked a lot to my nieces and nephews about ti- the first 10% goes to God, you know?
Lisa: Yeah. The first 10%. You have this ability to earn money. The only reason you have this ability is because you've been, you know, created by God to- Yeah ... to work and contribute to the earth. And, and so that's what the first thing. The second thing is, and I do like when the books recommend 10% to [00:34:00] savings.
Justin: Mm-hmm.
Lisa: So the first 20%, pretend like you never earned it.
Justin: Yeah.
Lisa: Like, that's going, that's gone right away. Then we have a lesson about taxes, and here... Or, you know, or you could reverse that. Taxes and then the, you know- ... whichever way you wanna work it. Yeah. Um, so those are, you know, just understanding those three components right away.
Lisa: And if it isn't tithing, maybe it's, you know, the, the 10% savings and 10% college fund. Or- Mm-hmm ... you know, n- but have a deliberate plan with the kids about what the money's for or what it could be for. We're gonna save this money because, gosh, I don't know what we're gonna spend this on, but it could be da, da, da, da, da.
Lisa: Let's talk about all the things w- you might potentially spend this money on. Mm-hmm. And help them think of, I think that helps with that abundance framework, you know? That whole idea of if we save [00:35:00] this money, imagine all the things you can spend it on. Oh, let's just have fun. Let's, let's go through the alphabet on this car ride and say everything you could spend your savings on in the future.
Justin: Yep.
Justin: You know, so it- And, and it goes back to, like, I mean, even just some of the, uh, decision framework you th- you went through earlier in terms of future self, right? , , So helping them think through- Yes, you could spend on something today, or... But how, you know, how could your future self five years from now be spending on this?
Justin: You know, that would... Because it's growing at a rate that will be bigger than what it is today, right? So maybe combining- Yeah ... some of that as well.
Lisa: Yeah. You know that famous Stanford marshmallow experiment where they found- Yeah. ... that kids who could delay gratification supposedly performed better financially.
Lisa: Mm-hmm. You know, did better in life.
Lisa: Yeah.
Lisa: And I looked into that, and they said, you know, [00:36:00] what the study didn't take into consideration was the context that the kids grew up in. If the kids, , f- trusted whoever it was that was saying, you know, giving the promise.
Justin: Mm.
Lisa: If the kid felt secure at home, if the kid w- felt like the rules were consistent.
Justin: Mm.
Lisa: If the... You know, like, those things impacted their ability to abstain or resist or- Mm-hmm ... delay gratification. And I thought, "Oh,- That's interesting ... God, that's such a good, such a good lesson for, for parents." Like, if you're trying to teach, if you're trying to teach, uh, kids about money, then it's so important that they see consistent promises, feel safe.
Lisa: If you, you know, if you say, "These are the rules," you're consistent with the rules. Mm. If they... Those kinds of things. If you are [00:37:00] constantly stressed about money, then they'll believe that that's just how you're supposed to be about money. If you say, "It's gonna work out," or, "We can always make more," or- Yeah
Lisa: those kinds of things impact, uh, the f- the m- the mind and the thinking about, about finances in the future. And to me, those things are almost more important than the financial habits. You know, I think teaching saving, teaching investing, the- absolutely great habits. But- You know, having both mom and dad involved in the finances, for example.
Lisa: It's not mom going, "I don't know. Ask your father. I don't know if we can afford it this month." Yeah. You know, that's... Oh, gosh, that doesn't model- No ... the woman being financially responsible and-
Justin: , Especially for, ... Because, you know, you talked about earlier where, you know, one of the things that [00:38:00] led you to starting, , Clear Springs, uh, Wealth was that, you know, it, it's almost like, not that you set out to become a model, but you, you are, um, you are s- you are being that example of someone to others who can look to you for support or help or guidance on that, and they have an example of, of that.
Justin: And so for, , how would it say, you know, whether it's sons or daughters, but especially if it's, you know, the daughter, uh, in a household where, you know, oh, it's... If Mom's saying, "Oh, you know, just, yeah, uh, just ask your father," like, you know, I, , I'm not part of that, you know, process or decision-making around that, then it, then, you know, that, that models, that could model to the, to the daughter that, oh, like, "Okay, girls, we don't need to handle that part of it because, oh, Dad or, or, you know, or, or a man can, you know, will take care of that."
Justin: But, but that's why, yeah, I think it's so important in, especially in a household where if you could ideally have, yes, both Mom and Dad modeling that for their kids, [00:39:00] that's, um, that would be helpful for sure.
Lisa: Mm-hmm. And for the single parent households, I think it's great once your kids hit 14, 15 years old, to open up your budget to them, to show them, "This is what's coming in.
Lisa: This is what we're spending on our rent. This is what we're spending on our car payment. This is what we spend in groceries. I'm sharing this with you not because I want you to wor- We have nothing to worry." You know, it's that whole I'm creating- Yeah ... a secure environment, "But I want you to just be aware of this, so when you ask for the prom dress, uh, from the store that all your friends...
Lisa: When you're asking for the Kendra Scott necklaces, when you're asking for, you know, all of that-" Yeah. "... just, just know this is what we're working with."
Justin: Yeah.
Lisa: So even if it's not, um, uh, where you have both Mom and Dad involved, , even in the single parent situation, I think there are ways that you can bring your kid into that discussion, [00:40:00] you know, once they hit high school.
Justin: For sure.
Justin: Curious about your thoughts on how we should, you know, is there a way that we should be teaching our, our girls, our young women to advocate for themselves financially? Whether that's negotiating a salary, you know, i- in corporate world, , asking an advisor, financial advisor some of the h- tough questions that we, you know, they should be asking.
Justin: , H- how can we make sure that our, our daughters, and young women are advocating for themselves financially?
Lisa: God, that's a great question. The million-dollar question, if you will. , I think it goes to Having the discussions about what advocating for yourself looks like early in life. So for example how about grades- Yeah ... and teachers, right?
Justin: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Lisa: And so [00:41:00] kid comes home from school and says, "I can't believe she gave me a B on this.
Lisa: I work," you know, "This is the best work I've done."
Lisa: Yeah.
Lisa: And oftentimes what we're seeing is mom and dad jump in, and someone emails the teacher- Mm ... and says, you know, "Julie worked so hard on this," and that, uh, you know, instead of having the, oh, God, what a great opportunity to have a discussion about advocating for oneself.
Lisa: Mm-hmm. "Okay, Julie, I under- you, you know, th- this stinks, I agree. You, I, you, I hear you, and I get that you are fr..." So we resonate with them, right? Yeah. We hear them in their frustration. We say, "I get that you are frustrated about this. I, you know, it makes perfect sense to me why you're frustrated. This is a great opportunity, though.
Lisa: How are y- we gonna deal with this? I, I don't think it's your mom or I getting involved," or, "I don't think it's your dad or I [00:42:00] getting in," or, "I don't think it's me-" Mm ... emailing the teacher. How could you address this?" Mm. "What are some ways you could go and talk to the teacher about this?" "I don't wanna talk to..."
Lisa: "We gotta start at some ti- you know, there, there are so many... And then you start having that difficult, there are so many times in life when you're gonna be handed s- you know, handed out something, a performance review or a job offer amount of money, that you're gonna go, 'What? No. That, ah.' And we have to, I want you to be confident to be able to stand up for yourself and- Mm
Lisa: and say what you believe you deserve. And it doesn't mean you're gonna always get it. Yeah. It doesn't mean they're always gonna say yes. It doesn't mean we're gonna change this. I wanna be very clear, it doesn't mean Mrs., , Roth is gonna change the grade on your paper. But we need to, it's great to have this discussion with her to get a better understanding.
Lisa: We always have [00:43:00] to just, you know, find out why and see what we can do better for next time, and yeah. So it's those discussions, oh, another one. Kids with their sports coaches.
Lisa: Oh, my goodness. There are kids in so many sports.
.
Lisa: And my niece is dealing with this. She's a freshman in high school, and they just moved from Kansas to Colorado. Mm-hmm. And so they're kind of torn right now in that transition between states.
Justin: Yeah.
Lisa: And so they've had to come back to Kansas a few times to finish up the last dental appointment or the last braces appointment or the, you know.
Justin: Yeah.
Lisa: And, um, so she's had to miss some practices, and, - She was just distraught about it. You know, a kid that just wears her- Mm-hmm ... doesn't wanna disappoint anyone, just is crushed that her coach made a comment to her as she was leaving practice. Mm. And of course, my sister's first reaction is, "I'm gonna talk to that c- how dare-" Yeah
Lisa: "that coach make my daughter feel so [00:44:00] terrible?" And, you know, what a great opportunity to teach- Yeah ... advocacy. You know, "Oh, niece, we need, you know, you gotta talk to your coach and say, 'It felt like-" I, uh, you're mad at me because I had to go to Kansas for this appointment. Is that right? You know, so you have to kinda- Yeah
Lisa: help them, give them some scripts they can use, but that's another great area where advocacy comes in. And then third I- example I can think of is with friendship dynamics-
Justin: Hmm ...
Lisa: is where you can teach advocacy, , especially with girls because, you know, Jamie said this to Russell, and now he thinks I'm dumb, and la, la, la.
Lisa: You know, and they get the, the catty, you know- Yeah ... , junior high, high school where the girls are now figuring out makeup and- Yeah ... you know, and they do that at a different rate, so some of them are still wearing headbands and sweatpants, and the other ones are wearing, you know, [00:45:00] jewelry and makeup and- Right
Lisa: so you've got this weird amalgamation of ages and, and developmental cycle. And so there's a lot of conflict among friends, and so that's another great opportunity to teach advocacy. You, you don't, um... If you're lucky enough that your kid will come home and talk to you and say, "I'm so mad at so-and-so," okay, you find out what happened, da, da, da.
Lisa: Okay, what could you do with this?
Lisa: .
Lisa: What could you say? What could you... I think you should stand up, you know? Like, and it's not that I think you should stand up and push back and punch her in the face next time. It's not that. It's the- Yeah ... you know? It's, it's healthy advocacy that you get a chance to teach them.
Justin: I, I love those examples there, and , , it doesn't come back to the parent to be the one, you know, helicopter comes in, tries to solve and fix and take care of, like, all these different things. It's really putting it back on the [00:46:00] child, using that as an example and opportunity to say, yeah, how...
Justin: You know, what could you... You know, what could we do or what could you do about this, um, a- and providing guidance along that way. So, , love that. And, and I think that, you know, advocacy really helps with, , financial or not, in, in all different types of situations, right? Like, standing up for yourself, advocating, you know, your position.
Justin: And again, yeah, the outcomes may not change, , but the fact that you, you know, did that, , is a huge deal. So thank you for that answer. Yeah. I wanna get into the rapid fire round, and I'll just fire some rapid fire kinda questions at you.
Justin: , Best advice you've ever been given?
Lisa: Can I have two? Don't get emotional about it. Mm-hmm. Like, guard, you know... Don't lose your cool to it, 'cause you never make good decisions when you're emotionally distraught.
Justin: Mm-hmm.
Lisa: And, uh, greet everything with curiosity.
Justin: Greet. Okay.
Lisa: Always be curious.
Justin: Yes. Love those. , [00:47:00] Best money lesson you've learned the hard way.
Lisa: Trading options is a lot like gambling.
Justin: Yeah. That, that's, that-
Lisa: Woo. I had some phenomenal, like, m-
Justin: Highs and lows?
Lisa: Oh, great highs and amazing lows. Yes.
Justin: Yes. Yes. Okay. Okay. If your 10-year-old self got $1,000 today, what does young Lisa do with it? Or what would you want her to do with it?
Lisa: I would want her to give 10% to the church, 10% into savings, , allocate s- you know, a small amount for, , something fun because she worked really hard for that money. And so, you know, maybe $100, $150 on something on a, on a current wish, [00:48:00] and then the rest into, , investing, a brokerage account. That's what I would want her to do.
Justin: Okay. You mean not, not options, um, not options
Lisa: trading? Yeah, not, not trading options. Oh, okay.
Justin: Okay.
Lisa: No, no, she's gonna be in a really great mix- ... of ETFs and low, low cost investments.
Justin: Okay. Um, and for a parent listening right now who wants to start a money conversation with their daughter this week, what would you suggest is a great, , first step or best step to, to take or do or talk about?
Lisa: I really love any question that programs the mind towards abundance.
Lisa: , So I love the what if questions. If I gave you a million dollars tomorrow, what would you do with it?
Lisa: And that, I think you get to hear so many interesting things about what happens in their brain when they think about such a big [00:49:00] number.
Lisa: Or, , if we were gonna give away $5 million to a charity, which charity would you wanna support?
.
Lisa: If we were gonna run a bank, let's say our family became a bank and we gave loans out to businesses, what kind of businesses would we wanna support? Like, these are all just- Yeah ... totally, ugh, those are fun questions.
Lisa: You know, I... What if you were gonna be the head of a company and the company was gonna make millions in profit every year? What's your company?
Justin: Mm. Yeah.
Lisa: You know, so you start getting them thinking about, you know, or like I said, the loan question, 'cause you're getting them thinking about stocks, bonds, you know- Yeah
Lisa: um, charity, generosity.
Justin: Yeah.
Lisa: , Those are all things, and when you come at money from that kind of, "Oh, wow, what would that be like to have that much money?" [00:50:00] You start to actually entertain it. Mm-hmm. It's like when I was a kid and I, um, I said I wanted to be a l- you know, I was probably 10 years old and I said, "I wanna...
Lisa: Dad, I think I'm gonna be a lawyer." And he said, "Well, that makes sense 'cause you, you definitely like talking." "Oh, Dad," you know? Yeah. And then he said, "Well, I, I think you'd be great at Harvard Law. I think that'd be... You'd fit right in there."
Justin: Yeah.
Lisa: Now, as a kid, Har- you know, like, it wouldn't have even crossed my mind.
Lisa: Right. But the fact that my dad planted this- Mm-hmm ... "Ooh, ooh, maybe I could go to Harvard Law." I could see it, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Of course I c- you know, if my dad said it's possible, of course it's possible. Yeah.
Justin: Yeah.
Lisa: So you really model that for your kids in the, in the big, expansive thinking. You can train expansive thinkers that way.
Justin: Love that. Where can people find you, follow your work, or learn more about Clearsprings Well?
Lisa: [00:51:00] Sure. My website is clearspringswealth.com. I'm active on Instagram and TikTok and YouTube. Uh, on, it's @clearspringswealth. And yeah, you can email me at lisa@clearspringswealth. So it's, it's fairly consistent. , I have some great freebies on my website on solo aging or how to use AI in your personal finances.
Lisa: Mm-hmm. So, , yeah, please take advantage of those.
Justin: Wonderful. And we'll have all those, , references in our show notes as well. , Lisa, as we kind of wrap up here, just want to thank you so much. It's been a fun conversation with you and, and to dive into all the different things we talked about, whether that's, , gender differences and how we raise our kids, , talking to our kids about decision frameworks, , that we want to, , have them think about through, you know, as they're making decisions, , advocating for themselves and all the different, ,, drops of wisdom that you, you provided [00:52:00] to our audience today.
Justin: So thank you so much, Lisa, for coming on.
Lisa: Thank you so much for having me. It was a real pleasure.
