Join Martin King as he sits down with skilled tradesman Jay Spencer to discuss his journey in the industry. From building custom homes to finding his passion in tile design and installation, Jay shares how his work ethic and integrity have made his services in high demand.
#skilledtraderescue, #skilledtrades, #apprenticeships, #careeradvice, #careerchange, #career,#internships,#careergoals,#vocationaltraining, #bluecollarjobs, #bringbacktrades, #bluecollar, #tradesman, #tradeswoman,#SkilledTrades #Construction #TileDesign #Entrepreneurship #IntegrityTile
Join Martin King as he sits down with skilled tradesman Jay Spencer to discuss his journey in the industry. From building custom homes to finding his passion in tile design and installation, Jay shares how his work ethic and integrity have made his services in high demand.
#skilledtraderescue, #skilledtrades, #apprenticeships, #careeradvice, #careerchange, #career,#internships,#careergoals,#vocationaltraining, #bluecollarjobs, #bringbacktrades, #bluecollar, #tradesman, #tradeswoman,#SkilledTrades #Construction #TileDesign #Entrepreneurship #IntegrityTile
Hey welcome to this week's episode of the skilled trade rescue podcast. My name is Martin King, always your dedicated host. This week we have J Spencer on the show, and he is a tile guy. Jay knows everything about tile. And like many of you out there, he picked it up through exposure in skilled trades. So he didn't start out originally in tile, which will tell you all about it. But he did gravitate towards it because he found it interesting. And like many skilled trade people do they decide to start their own business. And that's exactly what Jay did. That Jay has been very successful at it. And I think there's some great takeaways in this long form interview that I have with him about the secrets to becoming successful at your trade. And that's what this podcast is all about is trying to share insights into how to take your career to the next level. And I hope we got this done in this episode. As always, if you see this episode on YouTube, please make sure you like and comment. I know you've heard that a million times. But it's very helpful to get our word out there to more people. Well, without further ado, please welcome Jay Spencer, and I hope you really enjoy this week's episode of the skilled trade rescue podcast. So Hey, Jay, thanks for spending a little time with me on a Saturday. My pleasure. Good morning. Yeah. So I want to just talk to you about your skilled trade journey. Let's tell the audience a little bit about yourself what you do. And what's your you know, how did you get into what you're doing? What what's the what's the backstory on on your business? Yeah, I specialize in tile, I do a lot of finished carpentry as well. And it was kind of born from building homes. From the ground up, when I first started this back in 1990. I started this journey just as an employee to a contractor, building homes, big custom homes. And we were a small crew. So we saw every phase of home building. And we spent months on a single home, because we did almost every aspect of the work. And so I was kind of able to pinpoint what I really wanted to do. Because I got my hands on all of it. And it really has, you know, kind of landed on tile finish. We're kind of an artists type of the work, because I am an artist and I enjoy stuff like that work and create and be creative with what I do. And this happened back in 1990, I was living in Bend Oregon. And I was working at Mount bachelor, just skiing and being young and you know, having a blast and then summer hit and it's like man, I need to make some money here. And I met a guy up skiing that was a general contractor and he said why don't you come to work for me for the summers. And so that's what I did. And fell in love with it. And it wasn't I don't think two years into that that I dropped the skiing job and went building full time. So you were you were doing so you were doing carpentry you were working for General Contractor which could be just about anything, right? We were doing everything literally. And most of our homes we were building in sun River in central Oregon. And we would do everything from clear the trees off the lot with chainsaws to farming up the foundation, stem wall of the house pouring that doing all the framing, literally the only things we subbed out were mechanical, you know, plumbing, heating, electrical, and drywall and roofing. That was really all we subbed out we did everything else carpet, tile, hardwood floors, painting inside and out, you know so and we were there the whole time. So even the work the subs were doing I was exposed to so I really got to experience it all. And that Job was I believe, about nine years long. And then I moved to Medford and got started doing the same thing, this time for a developer who I was a foreman for and we would build smaller homes to the tune of two to three homes per month. Just just cranking them out big crews, lots of work lots of homes. And again, I got to see it all it was at that point in in 2000 that I got my license. Decide as a GC Yes. Directors license Yep. and I decided to stay as an employee for this developer, kind of until I got my sales up, you know, I should say, my, not my sales, but my sai L. S sales. And, you know, in caught some wind and started moving with my own business. And so that happened probably around 2003, where I just kind of spread my wings and took the leap. And now how did you sort of transition over to tile work, Jay, I was doing this, this particular developer in Medford did lots and lots of tile, you know, big tile floors, lots of hardwood floors. And that was the thing that I really started to excel at was the tile, I could just feel that this was where my skill was really flowing. You know, I could get it done quickly, I could get it done efficiently. I started looking at the market and seeing that tile installers were making higher wages than some of the other specialists. And that's what drove me in that direction. Outstanding. So you're, you started as a as a GC, and then you started moving over into the tile work. So how's the what's the condition of the market right now for tile folks? Like, you know, if you were faced with a big job right now, and you you know, you needed more hands to do the work? If you wanted to do that. I think you're primarily working by yourself now? Or do you have employees? Or what's your situation? I am now a sole proprietor, I work alone, and I'm legally bound to only work alone. Right? Okay, so let's just say you did have a big opportunity come your way, what's the landscape like about finding people that could do tile work? I think it is location dependent. And location we're in here in the Portland area. There actually are a lot of skilled laborers in this area and or, you know, people who want to do that. A lot of them are in the Hispanic community. But that's kind of a good thing, because they want to do this kind of work, they work hard, and they are available to work. And I think due to that, you would probably not have much trouble finding somebody. It would probably be a trainee. You know, I think your best chances would be that rather than finding a highly skilled journeyman to come work for you, but you know, those those can come along. I personally think the market is very good right here right now. Good as in work, or good as in the labor pool, or both? Both, I think, and part of it is because of the demographic of our area, this this western Portland area, Hillsborough area where we are, there are a lot of skilled laborers out here, there's a lot of people willing to work physically, you know, and as you get closer toward the cities, you tend to find people who are more prone to want to be in an office. That's been my Yeah, right. So what are some of the success stories that like, you know, really keep you engaged in doing what you're doing? And you obviously, love what you're doing? What are some of the perks of being in the tile business? And, and then maybe switch over and say, what are some of the perks about being in the tile business as a business owner nowadays? Yeah, yeah. I would say, probably the biggest perk of being a tile installer is the ability to step back and see what you've done. At the end of it. It's, it's different than almost any other I mean, you can build homes, you can paint a wall, you can lay vinyl floor, you can lay carpet, but none of it is quite like the mosaic that appears from installing tile, you know, and for me, who has kind of the soul of an artist, I thrive on that and I thrive of out the process of getting there, you know, the challenges of, you know, literally making a puzzle and then assembling the puzzle and the problem solving throughout that phase. So definitely a perk of being a tile installer is the reward of visually seeing what you've done. As well as you know, if you're good at it, and you're in you're good communicator, and you have a good relationship with your customers. It's, it's even better to see their response and their willingness to you know, write you the check with a smile Yeah, that's That's it? Yeah, a lot of geometry in tile. Right, you know, you got to really understand angles. And well, you're right. It's like a building block. Right. And, and the one of the things that is that requires patience. And it's a funny thing about my personality, I'm not a patient person at all the parts in my life that absolutely quiet require it. And due to that I'm extremely patient in those areas. One of them is you have if you want a successful tile job, no matter how simple or complex it is, you need to spend the time in the prep, you need to figure out everything you want to know everything that's going to happen with your layout before you even mix mud and start gluing anything down. I mean, there's some areas this last job I just finished was a bathroom with a herringbone pattern floor. And with this design, it's it's a very time consuming design delay is the herringbone and I am literally dreich a cutting and dry fitting almost the whole room before I even start mixing mud and sticking it to the floor just because I want to know if I need to make a change. Because once you start and you start gluing it down, you're just going and you got to deal with whatever happens. And if plan and you have foresight, you see what's going to happen at the end. That's what separates, you know, the best from just the good. Now, how about being a business owner, Jay? So, you know, I'm hearing you that your your artistic ability, your you know, the intricacies of doing the physical work that is a draw for you about being a business owner in the tile business, what are some of the perks and some of the upsides and downsides, if you will of that. That type of relationship with work? Yeah, it's good question. A perk of being a business owner in tile. I mean, I would my first impulse to answer you is more a perk of being a business owner in general. And, and maybe it's specific, I don't think it's specific to tile. But I think it also has to do with the way I have set up my business being alone in this where I don't have employees to where my schedule is 100% Mine, uh, you know, I, I can do the things that I want to do when I want to do them. You know, a lot of times I don't even know what the day of the week is, you know, I don't know, it's Sunday, because I'm working or I don't even know, it's Wednesday, because I'm fishing, you know, something like that. But I can plan that on my calendar. And it's an extremely freeing way to live by and I finally learned to actually make a calendar for myself that outlines my days off that outlines when I want to go fishing when I want to take you know, a few days to go do something because if you don't do that, you never will. Right. And that's something that was important to me, when I started this, I thought I want to set my own hours because I'm an outdoorsman, I want to enjoy life while I'm young and healthy and have the time to do that, and the money and the freedom. And for the first 12 to 15 years in this business of being a business owner. I didn't do it. I just I just worked and I worked. And then I just kind of woke up one day and I said, Man, my body's starting to hurt. I got to start enjoying life. And so I found a way to schedule my calendar to really be doing that now. Time management, right? Yeah, yeah, he intentional, it has to be intentional. Or one day you wake up and say, Man, a lot of time got by and I haven't done anything. Right. Right. Well, you know, one thing about your business I was thinking about, you know, you're essentially in the service business, you know, you're, you're servicing your customers and you're going into their homes or businesses and you're, you're you're into intaking what their their dreams are as far as what this backsplash is going to look like or what the shower is going to look like and all that stuff. The nice thing about the type of thing you do, and I'm thinking maybe like roofers to home constructions, that's a bigger scope of course, but your projects have a beginning and an end to them. Right right. It's not like you know, being in the my business that HVAC sir In this business where you're dealing with mechanical machines that run and they require a lot of maintenance, and they require a lot of care to keep the things, you know, running cars are then another example of it. Yeah, it seems like your business is kind of interesting, because, you know, once you finish your tile job, customers happy, they write your check, and you're, you're on your way. I mean, you don't have a lot of, you know, maintenance, if you will, on a on a piece of tile. I mean, yes, you gotta clean it, you got to do certain things to it. But it seems that, you know, if you schedule a job that's gonna take you three days, you go in there, even if it takes you four days. Once you're done, you're done with it. Right, right. Yeah. And that has its pros and cons. You know, obviously, because what you're talking about is a machine that requires maintenance. That that is a career of longevity, where you just kind of ride it as it goes, I have to find work, you know, I have to, you know, my jobs do and, and I do need another job, you know. And as the jobs come in, and I packed my schedule, like, you know, I work alone, I never worked two jobs at once, ever. I tried that in the beginning, and I didn't like it. And because I want to give every customer my undivided attention. So I never ever have two jobs at once. So that's how my calendar goes. It's like, right, this week is for the Kings this week is for the Johnsons this week is for the Smiths and oh, how long each job is going to take me so and I give myself a cushion between jobs just in case something goes a little longer. And you know, so I have a little bit of time in between each job. But there is an end to that. So I have these booked committed jobs that are going out six weeks. And each job starts and each job finishes. And then I go to the next one. And the same thing happens. And pretty soon. I'm two weeks away from having no work, right. And miraculously, the phone rings, and it just seems to happen. And I think the thing that I would want to drill into anybody who wants to get into this business, or even is in this business and wants to be more successful. My number one advice to you is answer your phone, just answer your phone. A lot of these customers are sitting there with a list of four contractors, they're going to call and they want to talk to somebody. And when you answer your phone, and you give them the time and respect and attention that they want, they're not going to call those other contractors. Right. And so that there is nothing in my mind, it's more important than I mean, you could break it down to just say communicate. Okay, would you say, Jay, that there's enough work out there? Like, you know, if if you had a son or daughter that was going off to college or something like that you need to make some extra money in your skilled trade? Would you say there's enough work out there? You know, to keep you busy year round? Yes. Okay. That's good. And again, I think it is it is regionally relevant. Right? Where we are now, for me, from what I can see, and from the people I'm in touch with, yes, it's very good. Yeah, you know, I when you were talking about the work and you know, slow times and things like that, and being a one man band, if you will, I remember those times when I started an HVAC I had one track. It was just me baby, right? Yeah. And, and I really connect with the challenges of having multiple customers that you're trying to service at the same time, my business a little bit different because we were working with mechanical equipment. And I remember those days where, you know, you're, you're working, working, working, working, and while you're working, you're not bidding on anything, right? Because you're busy, right? So you burn through all that work, and you're like, oh, man, I don't have anything to do. So then you go sell, sell, sell, sell, sell, sell, sell, and then bam, you get all this work. And so your life is this constant seesaw, right? It really is. Absolutely. And it's an interesting feeling of a kind of security, as well as overwhelming when you see you're booked six months out in this, you know, I know bigger contractors who are building homes, you know, I'll I'll say hey, I'm booked all the way through August. And these bigger contractors will say, Oh, yeah, what year For me, I mean, as far as me doing one small job at a time, I would say my jobs probably average for four to six days each. That's the size of my jobs. B, I'm about to start a job, that's going to be five weeks, I've had jobs that have been 12 weeks, but in general, they're just a few days. And so you need to line up a lot of work to have that security of income. And there's times in fact, even recently, I've just kind of had a sense that I better take every job because I don't know when the phone's going to ring. Again, you know, I think America is in a place right now where it feels like it could, it could slow down. If you're a skilled trade Pro, or a business owner that employs skilled trades, people, you may want to check out the BST skilled trade career development process. I know that's a mouthful. And what we cover in this process is the four key elements that can help transform an okay or even a good career into something amazing. We cover technical excellence, work ethic, how to build generational wealth, and most importantly, how to maintain work life balance, which is exceptionally challenging these days. We're having a free workshop on BSD coming soon, we're currently doing pre registry on it. Now one of the things about this workshop since it is free, we're limiting the size. Because this is an interactive workshop, we're going to try and learn as much as help others in the skilled trades. So go to skilled trade rescue.com Go to the top, any one of the menu bars look for BST to read up on what's going on with this process. And pre register for this workshop that will be coming your way soon. All right, well, without further ado, let's jump right back into this episode of the skilled trade rescue.com podcast. Right. And so because of that I not carry picking, like I kind of like to, you know, just taking the jobs I want. I've kind of been taking everything. And all of a sudden you look at your calendar, and you have this immense feeling of security because you see income coming in for the next five months. But at the same time, it's very overwhelming, because that means 15 to 20 different jobs on the books. Yeah. And then you have, boy, yeah, I remember those days, I mean, in your business to, gosh, you have a very specific color palette, let's just say right, so So let's say you know, you, you book a job five months out. And the husband and wife are super excited we got Jay. And we didn't think we were gonna get him. But we got him to do this job for us. And then the manufacturer of the tile decides, yeah, you know, we're just going to discontinue that tile. Right? Especially nowadays with the supply chain issues. I'm sure that's a little bit of a challenge for you. Absolutely. And I, in fact, that's a great point, I tell my customers, and this also kind of kind of validates their commitment to the job. I tell them to buy their materials, typically the way I work my business is my customers buy the materials, I'll guide them, where to buy them, and I'll send them to the place that works with me. And they will work with my customers on design and showing them all the tile options they have. So summers can basically choose anything they want in their price range in their color scheme and all that. And I will tell them to do that soon. Even if they're booked for August, these we're talking right now. And I would say go buy it now. Make sure it's available. Now make sure you get the right now price, because all of that can change. Yeah, one thing that can change for me also that I have to keep in flux on my bids is my building materials fluctuate in price. So I can give somebody an estimate for a job in August right now. And I will give them a price and estimate for the whole job based on my labor, which I know how much I want to make. And based on how much I'm going to spend on materials. And the one thing that has a major variable is inflation on those materials and or availability, especially these last A couple of years, you know, a lot of us a tile guys have been forced to change products that we like to use, because our favorite products are unavailable. And they can create more labor to install, because they're just a different product, they can be more expensive. But our hands can get tied on the materials that we buy and provide to build the project outside from tile and grout. So let's let's go up bird's eye level. So I want to talk about a couple of things about being a business owner, you have such a long, a big, you know, you've been doing this a long, long time, and you've done a lot of different things. One of the things that I've been exploring quite a bit of is, is work life balance. And you touched on, you know, important point of that is to being able to do some time management, booking your time off setting boundaries, that kind of stuff. What do you do? What have you done to maintain your relationship with your loved ones? While in everybody who knows? You knows that you're self employed? person? And you know, what, what are some of the tricks that you've done besides time management, that it helps you maintain your work life balance, because that's like the number one thing I hear from talking to everybody across the skilled trades, everybody's short handed, a lot of well, not everybody, but a lot of a lot of trades are short handed like crazy. So if they have a J, a superstar who's you know, knows how to do tile, they set them on a job and they go get them and they don't have to worry about it. But if you're short, short handed, guys, like Jay, you're gonna get overworked and burnout and eventually jump out of the trades because they're their burnout. So what are some of the tricks that you can think of that will, besides time management, which I think is super important, that will help a technician a title layer or business owner, not run into those those tight those work life balance issues? Yeah. Boy, I, it's really hard for me to go away from time management, you know, and, because that's really what it's all about. And I guess another very important aspect to it all is communication. Communicating with your customers, communicating with your colleagues, communicating with your retailers, keeps things known, you know, it eliminates so many unknowns, and I am a chronic communicator, I, if I'm driving to a job, and I hit traffic, I text my customer, you know, if I'm going to show up late, I want them to know, I'm not the contractor that rolls in 30 minutes late. Without my customer knowing why it's just I'm a communicator. And that goes all the way across the board if you've got subs coming in, so you've got a plumber, I've got plumbers around all the time. So I build a lot of showers. And if you are not on the ball with these different people to keep all the parts of the puzzle together, you could lose control of your time and your days and you can start being there till 9pm or being there seven days a week if you really let that go. And so communicating and just not over booking yourself the last thing I want to do is tell somebody this job is going to take me three days and I know at the ripe age of 54 it's probably going to take me more but I ended up doing is killing myself for that and then not having any time off for my family or for myself before the next job bumps in how do you smooth over your just conflicts that come up with loved ones like your you know, you're you're on the ball with your time management and you know your loved ones are seeing that J is super busy all the time. How do you how do you manage that when you start getting the the hints and the you know, subtle communications from your your loved ones that you're working too much? J Yeah. You're not gonna like the answer to this because and here's why. My wife is the one that does that. So So I obviously I'm an empty nester, my son is almost 30 He's been out of the house forever just been my wife and I and she has a nine to five job and She is a Zumba instructor in her spare time. So she's the one who comes home to a cold dinner. Yeah, that's good. Yeah, I you know, for, for me, my, I tell everybody, I'm a recovering workaholic, I just am I just, yeah. And my ambitions of being, you know, a business owner. And in my button counseling more than once. And for me, it was, I had to, I was great at communicating with my customers, like you're talking about in Yeah, but there's a lot of moving parts. And even as the business grew, and I was able to outsource that stuff, or delegate that stuff to other people, where I was really fallen down, is making sure that my time management, wizardry included, making sure that there was downtime to spend with my kids and, and my wife, and it's really, for me, I don't know if this has ever happened with you. But my business actually sort of took on the persona with my wife as the other woman. Right, I was spending so much time with the other woman, right? That she was just, it was a real problem. And yeah, yeah, so that was one of the things I learned the hard way. But you know, we 36 years we've been married now, but it was, fortunately, I married up. Quick announcement about a new ebook that we have out called technical excellence. This is the foundation of the BST skill, trade career development process. Some of the things that we'll be covering in this book include the power of mentors and how to find the right ones that will help you consistently move your skill tray career forward, creating your vision, what do you want to get accomplished over the next three to five years in your skill, trade journey, success strategies. So once you've developed your vision, you need to you need strategies that will help you execute that process to get things going and keep them going success habits. Everybody has good habits and bad habits. Within the book, we help identify what habits are hurting your career. And we try to replace those bad habits with ones that support your career taking in feedback, this is a learned skill that is very, very critical. When you have a challenge. You're getting your mentors involved, you measure those challenges against your vision, your strategies, you need to get advice, and learning how to take that advice, apply that advice to the challenges before you is a definitely an important skill that will serve you very well over your skilled trade career. For more information on the technical excellence ebook, as well as other ebooks that we have coming up, go to skilled trade rescue.com, go to the top of any one of the pages and click on the Learn ebook link. And that'll take you to our ebook page, you can read up on what's going on. There's some discounts if you get a chance to watch the video on the page. And I hope you enjoy this book and you get a lot of value out of it. I want to talk about money management now. So you're making good money? Well, first of all, let me ask you this in the title business. Can you generate as a an installer, you know, somebody do working for another company, which you've done? And a business owner can you make? What kind of a living can you make doing that? That type of work? Is it lower middle class, middle class, upper middle class? I mean, what kind of a living or how are you living, Jay, without giving away too many, too many confidential data points? Yeah. I would say I would say we're living middle class and obviously, I'm married to a successful woman who you know, makes money too. So between the two of us, we we do pretty well. And I would put us in middle class I would say, if I was talking my income alone, I would probably be very satisfied with my current income. I'm not I am not a chaser of the almighty dollar. I don't need to be you know, living under a pile of money. It doesn't feel good to me. I obviously want to have a nest egg and I work on that a little bit to a degree I think like everybody I can do more to you know, pad my future but again, you know, my wife has a pension build up after being in the job she's had all her life and 401 k's and I've got a mutual fund. So there's, there's, there are there are things things for our future as we get there. But I would say that's the answer to where I'm at for somebody who wants to be a tile installer. Yeah, I, there's definitely a good living there. I mean, in the economy we're in right now, I would think a tile installer with a with good incentive and fair skills, could probably start in the 20 to $28 an hour range, and probably go well up from there. If they become a journeyman, you know, maybe get their license and stay in it. Maybe they want to go commercial. But you obviously, it's back to time management, you know, you make as much as you put in, and the more you work, the more you make, right? Yeah. Is it? Is it possible, Jay, you think, in 2023, you get somebody who's, you know, right out of high school, or maybe a few years out of high school, and they've decided to go into being a tile installer or tile installer business, like yours. Is it possible to be a millionaire? You think? Yeah, absolutely. You want to be a business owner, and you want to grow, and you have that ambition, and you want to, and you want to go corporate and make a big, you know, a multi employee commercial type job, I think you could be a multimillionaire dependent on how motivated you are and how well you manage business. Right? Yeah, that's a that's a big one. Yeah. What are some of the work ethic type things like? Like, what, what makes it going outside the title business, just being in the contracting world, in skilled trade world for a long time? What are some of the work ethic things that are key? Gotta have if you're going to excel in your skill trade? Like what are what are some of the work ethic mindsets that you think are just, you know, critical, you gotta have it, or you're gonna have a mediocre career, if you don't? Yeah, this is probably my favorite subject, because I talk a lot with people is Yeah, your your ethics and your behavior around your customers and around your colleagues is everything. If people want to be around you, they're going to want to be around you. And that is what you need to succeed. And when you are making a relationship with a customer, you something that I am just adamant about is when I get a call from a customer, I've never met, and I'm going over to look at their project, I'm coaching myself on the way there to be. I mean, on my best behavior, it's kind of a weird thing to say, as an adult, but you know what I mean, I want to go in there. And I want to first of all, they've already heard of me, somehow, they've maybe seen my work, I have some sort of reputation that's gotten them to call me it's very rare, they're just calling me as some random tile installer. So usually, I've already got that behind me for them to call me in the first place. So when I get there, my number one priority is to put them at ease, make sure that they can trust me. And that is everything that is what makes them put away all of their other contractors, phone numbers, and it's what makes their checkbook come out. And it's what makes them hand me their key to their home, because I'm going to be in there while they're gone, usually. And it is absolutely imperative that my customer trust me when I go to look at their job, that is my very first goal. Are we even before we even step into the room where we're going to be doing the work, I break the ice by building a relationship with this person, just so it becomes a relationship, almost a friendship, if you will, rather than just a business model. Because these you're in these people's homes, they have all of their, you know, personal belongings in there, they have children they have, they need to trust you. And he that is the number one worth work ethic that's going to make you succeed in this job, because what's gonna happen is that person's going to say, I had Jay build this bathroom. You gotta hire Jay, because look at what look in the job he did. And man, it was there was no problems at all with them. He's a he's a good guy. You know, I'm not trying to toot my own horn that way, but I would love to coach people to say that is a huge priority. It's as big as the quality of your work. Good. That's yeah, absolutely. For sure. Yeah. And if you When when you're doing residential work, that's a huge thing. Because people, there was a huge difference between how people it related with company money versus personal money. You know, when when you were bidding on a job for commercial building, yes, they expect you to show up on time, yes, they expect a value added price, not necessarily the cheapest price. And they want you to show up and get the job done. Check, check, check, all those boxes are checked. But when you're in the residential realm, it's a bit different. Because yes, you have to check all those boxes showing up on time and all that. But they have to feel comfortable with you. Because, you know, you're, you're in their home, they're, you're in their castle, doing what you do. And it makes a, you know, makes a big difference. Yeah, for sure. Well, and another kind of work ethic. Thing that that's important to talk about too, for me is the fact that I work alone, and it can be lonely, you there's no doubt about it. It's fun when somebody shows up, and I get to talk to somebody. However, working alone, keeps me working. I can't tell you how much I enjoy talking to a plumber when he shows up or an electrician or somebody and then I look at my watch. And like, I haven't done anything for an hour and a half. Yeah. Not a good feeling. And it's amazing how my, my my momentum can get interrupted, even after I go back to work from something like that. And for and same exact thing for me, I never leave a job for lunch, I packed a lunch, I take it to work, I eat it there. Because I hate to lose my momentum. Yeah, I have a goal every single day, when I show up at work, I know what I want to have done by the end of the day, it may happen at three, it may happen at six, but I want to accomplish that goal by the end of the day. And I don't and I can do that. If I can predict the fact that there's going to be nobody there to chat with. I'm not going out to lunch to you know, hometown buffet and sitting there for two hours and getting full and tired. So that's a big work ethic thing for me stay on the job. Don't be chatty, just do your job. Right. So as a as a business owner, che like, what are some of the what are some of the successes that you've experienced? And some of the things as a business owner that you would have done differently? You know, talking to your younger self? Where what are some of the things that that you would have done differently if you could about owning a business? Not necessarily a tile business, but owning a business? Like what? What words of wisdom Could you share with the younger? J? Hmm. That's a good question. I think I think you and I talked a little bit about me, overworking myself in the early days, and not being Joy life. I think that if I would have kind of manage my time better when I was younger. I don't know if that would be better for me now. Or if I go back and do that differently, I think the experiences we give ourselves are important to look back on. You know, I don't want to say it was a mistake that I worked out hard, and and that many hours. But it is nice to be at a point where I am now and look back and say that's how I used to do it. So this is how I do it. Now I learned from so back to time management again. I guess that's like one of the Yeah, and I think fortnight I think that was an important learning period in my business that I did that so that I can see it now. Right? And I mean, I don't care who you are, it's important to know when you're in this business, and you get to be my age, it hurts. I mean, it physically does hurt and you need to be prepared for that and and you know, I want to make this career sound as attractive as I possibly can but I'm going to tell you Advil is your friend at this a vitamin A Did you have any mentors through your career like that made big, huge differences in you know, how you ended up to, you know what you're doing now or your level of success? Was there any particular individuals that helped you do that? I would say yes, I mean, they're not they're not an outstanding mentor that I is still in touch with that I think about a lot. But the as you ask that question, I think of a couple people back in the early days that made me want to move from being an employee, to working for myself. And I will never forget this one friend of mine, his name was Mitch Smith down in Medford. And he was a flooring contractor. And he did all kinds of flooring, vinyl, carpet, laminate and stuff like that. And I envied him, just because he was just a happy guy. And he was always at these jobs. I was I was at and and we would talk about owning your own business. And he kind of talked me through it and got me excited about it. And I remember some days, I would see him and he would say, Jay, I'm going to tell you right now, I wish I was in your shoes. You know, and I'll never forget that, you know, this guy is a successful business owner is basically like I am now he was a sole proprietor, he did all his own work, he set his own schedule, yet from time to time me as an employee of of somebody else, he would say to me, I wish we could trade places. Because it does wear on you, you know, this, this business is, even though you have your time management set, there is something about it always being upon you. All, you can't leave it behind, like you can leave a desk job behind when you go home, right? Yeah, one of the things I've been talking about a lot lately is skilled trades, you for the most part, across the whole spectrum of all the skilled trade jobs out there. There's no lack of work. There's, there's people, you know, if you want to, if you want to get scrappy, and you want to do your trade, whatever it is, there's opportunities out there, and it's getting, there's more and more opportunities showing up all the time, because older guys like us are, you know, retiring, or like the box tiles getting kind of heavy. In my case, man, those compressors are pretty heavy. So you know, so you just you get out of it, you retire, you do other things. Unfortunately, some of us die off whatever. Yeah, but so there's no lack of opportunity. And the other thing that I'm hearing a lot about these days recently is is artificial intelligence. And in the past, America has has outsourced other jobs, desk jobs, jobs that require for your college degrees off to other countries. And the skilled trades when you're working with physical stuff, like for example, Mr. And Mrs. Smith need a new shower. Well, that's not getting outsourced. That's right, he's not. And I don't see anytime soon that there's going to be a robot that's going to come into the home and install of a tire a tile shower, I don't see that happening through, you know, artificial intelligence or robotics or like that. So I, you know, one of the things I talk about is, if you have a high tech job, that especially has to do with virtual reality, you know, you're communicating via email, or you're doing computer aided design or whatever, something on a computer that can be eventually replaced by AI, and robotics and or outsourced to other countries, some of which don't like us very much. Yeah. And, you know, so I see that I see that, you know, skilled trades isn't going anywhere. And what do you think about that, if you given that any thought, in your time alone, lentil? It is an interesting dynamic that we're seeing as technology spirals, so fast forward. And you're right, AI is a very interesting possibility for people. I mean, you see stuff as simple as self checkout at stores, you know, stuff like that. It's a, it's a simple solution for AI to replace people. And like you said, there is no simple solution for AI replacing what we do it. I mean, obviously, probably 20 years ago, nobody saw that the possibility of what's happening now, just like I don't see it being possible that a robot can lay it, lay tile, who knows maybe it can happen doesn't seem like it. I will say this when COVID happened And I watched this world go quiet. And all, you know, everybody was staying home, people were laid off, people were losing their jobs, businesses were shutting down. I had every job I wanted, I was cherry picking jobs, it never stopped. It never even slowed down, if anything had picked up. And I think part of that is the type of work I do, you know, the fact that I'm residential, I do small remodels. And people were home was time to, you know, they were home and they were getting, you know, these these checks from the government, and they still had money, and they were spending it and I was busy. And not only me, but every contractor I spoke to, was in the same boat. So while everyone else was stressing about whether they still had a job, I mean, aside from the COVID Scare itself, I was cruising right along, you know, going to work with no traffic in the morning. I you know, I heard that a lot. A lot of my buddies and HVAC are just buried. And, you know, which was really crazy. To me. Even the commercial guys were busy doing stuff. Yeah. And nobody was in the buildings, which was really weird. Well, it's kind of funny, because for me, it was the opposite. I was always used to it being in people's homes while they were out at work. But during COVID, I was working in their homes while they were home because they were home. So that was an interesting period. And as we've gotten into an era where people have still learned to work from home, I do deal more and more with people that are still at home. And that remains an interesting factor as to you know, you have to be it comes back to work ethic when you're literally working around a customer, and he sees you or she sees you going in and out of her door 45 times a day to do your thing. There's a certain behavior you have to be under, you know, don't leave the door open and let the cold air in, you know, just little things like that. There's a lot to it when the customer is there watching you, right? Yeah, I could just see I think, yeah, people were at home, stuck in their house. And I could just hear those husband wife conversations, you know, they're saying, hey, the wife saying when are we going to get this shower fixed? Yeah, right. It boom. Next thing you know, you got a big tile job and yeah, yeah, it was a crazy. It was a crazy time. Yeah. Well, we're gonna wrap things up. Jay, what's the name of your outfit? And what's what's a good email for you in case anybody has any tile? Questions maybe we will have a you know a tile layer out there that's thinking about starting their own business and you know, my in and maybe they'll shoot you an email. And guys, by the way, if you blow up, if you blow up Jays Jays inbox, he's gonna let me know. So you know, keep up keep the keep the questions. Short and professional, because he's a busy guy. But what's a good email for you, Jay, what's the name of your company? Company is integrity tile and carpentry. And my email is tile with integrity@gmail.com. There you go. tile with integrity@gmail.com. Perfect. All right. I'm gonna go ahead and turn off the recording here, Jay. Okay, yeah, this conference will now be recorded. There you go. So, I started this business carrying a general contractor's license even though I wanted to go into tiles specifically, I wanted to be a specialty contractor. And the reason I took a general license was you never know if tile is going to be always available. You want to be able to build a deck you want to be able to, you know, build a covered porch or or do some framing or something. So, to me, it was important I had all those skills because I started this business. I started my career with a builder and I built every aspect of home so we're the thing that I would love for people to try to do is expose yourself to the building industry. When even if you start as like you want to be just a tile installer. Pay attention to what's around you, especially if you're in new construction and study no know what it takes to to do different aspects of building bigger and here's why. I will go into a bathroom remodel. For instance, it's an old home in Portland, they've got vinyl floors, they want to rip it all out and do all tile. I rip it all out. And I discover the floor is rotten all the way through the structure and the drywall is rotting up the walls. And now all of a sudden my customer needs a contractor to repair their floor, their structure. They need new studs in the walls, they need drywall hung, they need drywall, taped and textured, they need the doors trimmed out they need the doors possibly replace, things can occur come up like this from, you know, exploring demo and seeing things you didn't expect. So now your customer has to start shopping for him bringing in other contractors to fix these things. And it can draw out this process to an eternity to do a small bathroom. I have a general license so that I can do all these things and and take my skill from my past of building homes where my customer does not have to hire anybody else, I do it all. And the nice thing about it is you can set your price. I'm not cheap to fix those things. I'm expensive to fix those things. But I'm worth it because I'm there, it doesn't slow the job down. And it gets done without bringing other strangers into the home. And my call, right, they don't have to track down for different contractors, right. And so to a degree, the project still stays on schedule. I mean, it gets pushed behind because there's more work, but we're not waiting for another contractor to be found in come in and scheduled. So everything stays very smooth. So I guess my advice is, if you become a specialty contractor like I am, it's very good to also study some of the other things you may encounter and carry a general license so that you can do them legally. That's a good point. That's that's really good, because people inherently, you know, don't want to deal bit do business, especially business in their own home with multiple contractors. Right. I was, you know, by the way, full disclosure, Jay did a couple of shower jobs for us, and did a great job. So him and I've had a few conversations about this. But recently, well actually, a couple years ago, now we did a major remodel on our house. And 90% of the of the vendors we had in here were good. But we had a tent that 10% That wasn't so good. And yeah, so if you got one person that you like, that does multiple things, that's a win, I think it really is. And to a certain degree, it's it's, it's bread and butter for me, you know these things they they occur, they come up, they're extra cost that drive up the price for me so that I make more money on it, and I have the skill to do it. And my customer is elated to write that check at the end of the job. Just me almost no matter what the price is, I'm a very fair person when it comes to that. However, I do understand that I am able to save them a lot of time and heartache and headache and just frustration. By doing it all myself. It literally just happened at my last job where I tore out the floor. And it was posted beam construction under the floor. And literally the beam was rotting halfway through. And so we had to do major repairs. And it was no problem. And it's just a matter of having that skill, having some confidence. And I would say one more thing that is just really important that I've always done is if you don't think you can handle something, don't do it. Don't tell that you can take on this job and then go in there and fumble through it. And and I mean that's going to be a sore spot on your resume. Yeah. Well one thing too I want to add to that, about you know, having one person or one company that's multifaceted do the work. One of the problems that you run into and again I had this happen on this remodel is if you have five contractors in here and they all have different specialties, sheetrock paint, flooring, you know whatever, if there's a problem, because hey, no matter how good you are, you're gonna have you know, warranty stuff come up. You just are right. And the other thing is, you know, even even if you charge Jay charges extra money to replace a beam or whatever. If there's a problem the homeowner has to make one phone call. Yeah, to get it fixed. Right, right. Because never nobody's perfect. So that that's, you know, money well spent, because what I ran To is situations on the remodel is, you know, you have five different contractors and everybody stands in a circle and points to the left. It's not unique. You gotta call that's not that wasn't in our scope, you need to talk to that the electrician or you need to talk to the, you know, plumber or whatever. And then you know, you're having to go through a lot of frustration chasing everybody down. So I see a lot of benefit of paying, even if you have to pay a little extra having one guy do at all. Yeah, if he's if he's qualified to do it. Right, right. That's right. Yeah. And that's, you know, that's another point that I think we can circle back on is try to study and pay attention and learn some of these other things. But know your limits. You know, if you are somebody who sees a structural problem when you do demo that needs to be repaired. A don't cover it up. You know, because some contractors do that. They see something and they make a judgment call and they say, oh, that's bad, but it's not that bad. I'm just gonna come up. You know, I've seen that I've pulled up a demo where I've seen that had been remodeled before and I saw something that should have been repaired before And wasn't it was just covered up. So a don't do that and be if it feels like it's out of your comfort zone. Bring someone else in at that point, right? Yeah. Don't Don't, don't mess up your reputation by trying to handle something that becomes a callback and eventually a thorn in your side where you keep going back because you did something you couldn't handle