S5E8: The Next Level

"Take it to the next level" is an idiom that means - to significantly improve, expand a skill, business or relationship, making it more successful, advanced, or professional than it was before. This requires a vision, goal, focus, hard work, commitment and perseverance. It is however easier said than done. What self-doubts does this endeavour trigger? How does one navigate the path while remaining grounded? How does one remain open to possibilities in order to - up the game!

To explore this subject, here’s a conversation with Dr.(Maj) Ameya Kagali, Chief Team Physician for the Indian contingent at the 2020 Tokyo Paralympics, 2023 Hangzhou Asian Para Games and the 2024 Paris Paralympics. A former regimental medical officer in the Indian Army, Dr.(Maj) Ameya specialises in sports and exercise medicine. He is the founder of ‘Krida Human Performance Center,’ Bangalore and has consulted with Karnataka State Cricket Association & the IPL franchise Rajasthan Royals. He is also the 1st guest of Wings podcast and enjoys the distinction of being the only come-back guest, after four-and-half years, with this episode #108.

Views and opinions expressed in this episode of the Podcast are those of its guest. Creators of this Podcast expressly disclaim any and all liability or responsibility for any direct, indirect, incidental, consequential or other damages arising out of any individual’s use of this Podcast.

(C) Asha & Milind Agnihotri, 2022-2026

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:14

Take it to the next level is an idiom that means to significantly improve, expand a skill, business or relationship, making it more successful, advanced, or professional than it was before. This requires a vision, goal, focus, hard work, commitment, and perseverance. It is, however, easier said than done. What self-doubts does this endeavor trigger? How does one navigate the path while remaining grounded? How does one remain open to possibilities in order to up the game? To explore this subject, here is a conversation with Dr. Major Amir Kaghli, chief team physician for the Indian contingent at the 2020 Tokyo Paralympics, 2023 Hangzhou Asian Para Games, and the 2024 Paris Paralympics. A former regimental medical officer in the Indian Army, Dr. Major Amea, specializes in sports and exercise medicine. He is the founder of Krida Human Performance Center Bangalore and has consulted with Karnataka State Cricket Association and the IPL franchise Rajasthan Royals. He is also the first guest of Wings Podcast and enjoys the distinction of being the only comeback guest after four and a half years with this episode number 108.

SPEAKER_00 2:16

Thank you so much for having me. And again, if I have I think I'm the only uh guy who can have the privilege to use the word again.

SPEAKER_01 2:24

Absolutely, absolutely, and undoubtedly. Because I'll tell you why you are so special to the Wings Podcast. It's because you launched us uh in January of 2022, uh almost four and a half years back when we started the podcast, and you were the first guest on our show. And today we are recording the 108th episode of our podcast.

SPEAKER_00 2:52

Super. So in in my world, that is like you know, a beautiful Olympic or a paralympic cycle.

SPEAKER_01 2:59

Absolutely. And I think 108 has a huge significance in various cultures all around the world, specifically in India, where you know we have the Japamala or the prayer beads, which has 108 beads, and we kind of do one cycle. So, in some ways, Amea, you have completed a cycle as guest one and guest 108. So, so happy and excited to have you back.

SPEAKER_00 3:21

Thank you so much, and it's always a pleasure to talk to you on the record or off the record. Either way, it's you know it's really nice and to uh discuss whatever it is that it is there under the sun.

SPEAKER_01 3:32

Likewise, likewise. You know what I did uh today morning, I just kind of Google searched Dr. Amea Kagli. Just for the heck of it. And this is what this is what uh Google Gemini showed me, which is a crystal. Of course it is. So so here it goes. It says Dr. Major Amea Kagli was the chief team physician for the Indian contingent at the Tokyo 2020 Paralympics. He also served as the chief medical officer for the Indian team at Paris 2024 Paralympic Games. Dr. Kagli, a former regimental medical officer in the Indian Armed Forces, specializes in sports and exercise medicine. He is the founder of Krida Human Performance Center and has consulted for organizations like the Rajasthan Royals and the Karnataka State Cricket Association. You can learn more about his medical career on his LinkedIn profile or follow his updates on Instagram.

SPEAKER_00 4:40

Wow, that sounds pretty cool then you know what what I've actually done.

SPEAKER_01 4:44

And none of it, by the way, was a reality when we recorded in January 2022. All of that is subsequent, whatever I've just read.

SPEAKER_00 4:54

So it's been uh seems like No, one one was one was uh there before we recorded that of the Tokyo Paralympics.

SPEAKER_01 5:02

Just that absolutely I I remember in the episode that we did uh four and a half years back, we kind of ended our conversation with the Tokyo Paralympics game where you were the chief medical officer. And I think as a team and as uh you know you all made the nation so proud then by winning the highest medal tally ever. And I can only imagine how much of efforts sports fitness and medical you know fitness plays in all this. So why don't we go back to where we left off last time uh in January 2022 and then kind of see where we are today?

SPEAKER_00 5:46

I mean, it's it's been like a very surreal journey, to be honest. And uh so after a point like when I started my career also, when I picked like I want to do something which amalgamates uh medicine and sport, uh it was that only that decision was very certain and sure in my life. But as to whom I aspire to work with, or you know, is there a particular team that I would like to be associated with, or a particular player, or players, that was never the end goal. And I think that was the biggest blessing in disguise for me. Because when you have no expectations in terms of, you know, uh that okay, I need to be here after this much time, it was only about the process, and of course, I wouldn't lie, I have been lucky in this journey. Uh, so I think it's a mix of both, which has taken me through, and being also important is the being at the right place at the right time. So I'm sure there are so many the caliber of medical doctors and support staff. Uh, there are so many wonderful people in the country and even across the globe. But just then, why me? So I attribute that to two things. One is obviously the luck factor, and it's like somewhere in the universe, like what you're seeking is seeking you. So deep down, I might not have told it aloud that you know, oh, I want to be here. I just want to work with athletes and be in that uh performance kind of an arena and anything away from the very uh cliched OPD and hospitals, uh, stuff like that. So I think I just stuck to that. So as long as I got work in that space, then one thing led to another. And uh uh I have thankfully I have Google Gemini to back me up.

SPEAKER_01 7:36

Undoubtedly, but you you know, Amea, your episode, which we had as episode one on uh Wing's podcast, it was titled The Fearless Explorer. And I think uh this fearlessness and the the urge to explore, yeah, um, is also a factor I I think uh must have played in in all that you have done in the last four years plus.

SPEAKER_00 8:06

100%, 100%. And I I think you can just make it Fearless Explorer 2.0 or something like that for this one.

SPEAKER_01 8:13

So can we can we label this episode's title as Fearless Explorer 2.0?

SPEAKER_00 8:18

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because that that is what drives me, uncle, like you know, uh to just see and to know what the what people are doing in other parts of the country or in other parts of the world. And uh in my space for now, but then I also do have plans to explore some other fields, but we'll talk about that later. But sticking to my profession, how do they approach cases, how do they approach athletes across the world? And that that remains like an enigma for me because the anatomy, human anatomy is the same. Correct. Whether I'm dealing with people in Colombia or Brazil, Europe, China, or India. But just the approach, the kind of investigations they do, I mean, it is so fascinating, and I feel so uh like uh what do you call, honored and privileged to just the fact that I get reports from across time zones to just assess that itself I feel so privileged. Anyway, our profession is known to be a noble profession, and just seeing and addressing a basic human being, reading their reports, and they they have so much of uh you know hope when people come to us. I'm not talking about athletes, even a patient population as such, but that's only if I've not heard of that I can't even pronounce the uh person's name sometimes, and then then I get a plethora of data, and especially in para sport, it never ends. So just I just like take a break when I get that file, either on mail or wherever it is. And I'm when I'm reading it through, then sometimes I have to translate those reports because it's in a different language, and that that whole process is so fascinating, you know. And I think just because I'm so fascinated by it and I'm getting a little touch wood, and I'm being blessed by getting work in that space also. So I think that that fearless explorer thing, it's it's just not, you know, oh, going for a hike or doing something uh wildly physical. It's also the mental aspect of things and another side to medicine.

SPEAKER_01 10:14

I mean, of course, I mean, when when you know when we say fearless explorer, one is also trying to imply um, you know, being comfortable with the unknown, being comfortable in a zone which is not yet familiar. So I think uh the 2020 Tokyo Paralympics game, would it be fair to say that it set you up for the Asian games in Hangzhou in 2023?

SPEAKER_00 10:44

Absolutely. It has set me up in so many ways, not just there. The work I did in the Sports Attractive India and Bangalore. Yes, uh, then the Paris Games, then now, in fact, um, later this year we have the uh Nagoya uh uh Asian Games. So it's like completing two parallel cycles, like one paralympic cycle and one Asian Game Cycle. So, in that, and because this tournament comes like once in four years, correct, just as athletes are, you know, you need to be a really fine, fine athlete. I mean, even an athlete takes part in one Olympic or Paralympic Games is damn bloody good. Correct. But as a support stuff to, you know, span across two consecutive ones and seeing that whole cycle, you know, it it also gives me such a beautiful way to uh uh get generate the data, not just from a physiological point of view, from a psychological point of view, and it helps me grow. Like just I was making some lists of certain drugs which needs to be carried for these games. I can see myself spot the errors a bit more quicker now, okay, or where we can do things differently, do things better. Like, oh, this is what had what had happened on those games. Now, how do I better that? So that experience value and uh to imbibe it from my athletes, you know, or this time, this afternoon, I think the temperature was this much. So I think we can be better prepared for those games. So every every passing game, the preparation of not just the athletes, but even the support stuff has been a few notches higher.

SPEAKER_01 12:16

Undoubtedly. I think uh, you know, one also raises the bar, as they say, and you come from the you know, Indian Armed Forces where you have been a medical officer and uh you know you've done phenomenal work there for sure. Sports Authority of India has added a lot of things to you. But, you know, I was fortunate uh to talk to one of your para athletes. Uh I won't take her name on this podcast, but she's she's done the country proud. She has won so many medals uh in a very, very unique sport which is specific to paraathletes only.

SPEAKER_00 12:54

In in general, no equivalent in the able bodies, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:56

Yeah, no equivalent in the able bodies. And I've heard so much about you from her that she's you know in terms of what you have contributed to her. Uh so I'm sure there are so many athletes that you have prepared, worked very hard with, who have gone on and win won medals for India. But if I were to look at these three specific events, uh let's say the 2020 Paralympics, the 2023 Hangzhou Asian Games, and the 2024 Paris Paralympics. You were a part of all three as the chief team physician. You know, what have what have these three events given you? How has it shaped you uh if I were to kind of uh you know pick your brains there?

SPEAKER_00 13:42

Professionally it's given me like unmatched identity that I mean how many can boast about being the chief medical officer at all the three events? Correct. That's one secondly, is that that has shown that if a particular team for whatever reason has or a federation has stuck to me, one must understand that it is not just one particular team I am with, it's the whole contingent. Correct. So then we have Parabadminton, uh Blind Judo, uh shooting, archery, fencing, uh athletics. So you have so many venues and so many different things, and you have to kind of juggle between all just no bits of you know, you can't get too much into depth into one particular sport, especially during the event. So it's a lot of man management also that happens on ground. And the other thing is that the contingent number, you know, suddenly in the Asian games it swells up. Yes, because at the international level, the slots are a bit lesser uh for the Paralympic Games per country. That Asian games, it's a little more. So we had a contingent of more than 400 in Hangzhou. In Tokyo, it was 50, and in Paris we were 84. But in Tokyo, again, it was baptism by fire, it was by far the most challenging because again, it was peak COVID, it was the games were behind uh uh closed doors, not open to the public. Correct. So you feel that no one's watching, but in fact, a lot more people ended up watching because they follow the games, and the kind of challenge what I faced in Tokyo, every other game became like a piece of cake, and it was not idle because it was new for the entire support staff. It was like a debut for the entire there were people from other, like for example, para coaches and certain administrators who had been to Rio, the Paralympics before in 2016 and maybe 2020-12 London Games. But they told Tokyo was a different beast, so don't worry, we are all in the same boat. So that made me feel a little bit at ease, not getting too overwhelmed. Then Kamit Hangzhou, so we knew what we had done there, just that we had to, you know, uh multiply the efforts because of the contingent size, and then come to Paris, it had another beautiful challenge where the benchmark was already set. Because after Rio, when Rio we didn't do that well, I would say Tokyo was growth was exponential. Correct. So from what four or five medals in Rio, we went to 29 medals. Correct. I'm sorry, 19 medals in Tokyo. Now, no matter what, like we had to cross 25 barriers. So eyes were on us. There was certain, now we have double paralympic medalists now. So winning one medal is good, but then now you you might have seen an able body also because of yoga ship was more of Neera Chopra 1 that uh gold. Correct. Right? Now anything less than that is a is a failure. Right? But he, if he hadn't won that gold, if he had come fourth or something, then even a bronze would have seen a win. So, like that, we had Uncle, I'm telling you, almost close to 10 of our para athletes going in as world number one in Paris. Wow. So you can imagine, like, you know, people are now expecting you. Okay, this champ, he's a champion, he's coming, he's there to win. A loss would be his loss. It's not like you know, so that's how that's how beautiful. And I was witnessing all this from close quarters during the event, but what all we saw, the preparation in between the events eventually shaped what's happened there. So that whole journey, which was encapsulated and being there for those events itself was beautiful. So when Tokyo sent it because it was so different, Hangzhou again, the the volume of people, and Paris living up and in fact bettering a record from Tokyo. Those are the three standouts like I would take from these three games.

SPEAKER_01 17:44

You know, you know, if I were to draw a parallel with the other game, which a billion plus Indians are so passionate about, which is a game of cricket. You know, I remember uh reading somewhere that there was a point in time where we had four of the greatest players in the in the Indian team, starting with Sachin Tendulkar, Virendra Sevag, Sauro Ganguli, Vivias Lakshman, and on the bowling contingent, you know, we had the likes of uh Kumlay uh and and the others.

SPEAKER_00 18:20

I You missed out another very famous personality. He was my recent coach, please don't not name him, uh Mr. Raoul Dravid. Oh my goodness, how can I forget?

SPEAKER_01 18:29

How can I forget? I mean, what a person. The wall. I mean, um, there is a there's a personal connect I have with him in some sense. I won't be able to say much right now. But for a team with such stalwart, it must be quite an effort for the coach or the team physio. Uh now drawing, connecting that to you know your world of para sports, you know, in Paris, you said you had uh almost 10 people who were world number ones uh and you were kind of you know helping them excel from where they already were. What sort of conversations would you have had with such great para athletes? Because it's not just, I think, physical fitness or uh skills and abilities. Uh it must be a lot that is happening in the mind, also, right?

SPEAKER_00 19:28

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And see, the thing is that uh I I know like you're asking this question like from an outside perspective. Correct, correct. But I'll give you a bit of a sneak peek. Once and it the whole prep starts from knowing the players, we meet. It's not that we land in a certain venue and that's where we meet for the first time. Even in Tokyo, because I was in the Psy school of uh system of things, I met these athletes before. So there were online meetings that time. Then we had a small camp in Delhi where I interacted with them. So it doesn't come as a root shock, you know, that oh, who's this? Because it the connections are never built in a day.

SPEAKER_01 20:06

Correct.

SPEAKER_00 20:07

So a period of time. But once you get to know the athletes, once you get to know the players, see, they are just humans like us. Just the fact in sport is that that whatever our respective profession is, it is not televised. So they are they have practiced, we prepare ourselves, we prepare our body, our home, and whatever it is, and we go to our office, hospital, wherever, just do our job, come back home, right? They do the exact same thing, but they are sometimes put on a pedestal because there are so many eyeballs on it. Correct. But as a support staff, it is very surprising. Our relation is completely different. You know, it's not about 10 people, like even like a like how do I put it? If an athlete tells now one line or one sentence, it is so easy to be taken out of context and that make it a headline. So, like that, I've had so many athletes talk inappropriately sometimes. But that's between us. You know, if it's a complaint, if it's you know a symptom that you know, we are I don't think I'm feeling well today, doc. Can I play tomorrow? Should I train tomorrow? You know, so then I can understand like if an outsider hears this, it'll be like, you know, oh, this person didn't want to train because he has fever. Correct. It'll become headlines, you know what I mean? But for us, it's a normal conversation, and that is my duty to keep the conversations as normal and as organic as possible. You can be approachable. So my senior in my medical school had told me, you know, who is the best doctor? He had defined it so well skill and this. No, the best doctor is the one who's available. Period. So the whole thing, the whole crux starts from there, and that forge just reemphasizes. Regimental medical officer has it. So nothing will happen to me. Correct. And those are the parallels from like I keep drawing the parallels from the battleground to the playground. Correct. On multiple forums, I've told the same thing. Like when the soldier believes in you, the athlete also believes in you. Correct. You know, and if you can handle the extremes of a soldier, the athlete becomes a piece of cake. Now, fast forward amongst athletes now. If you can handle an able body, if you can handle a para athlete, able body becomes a piece of cake.

SPEAKER_01 22:28

Correct.

SPEAKER_00 22:28

So I just look to you know simplify the conversations that we have. Because as I told you, be it here or anywhere of the world, human anatomy is the same. What we've studied in our books. In fact, most of our medical books are written by authors and doctors all across the world. We have Indian authors, Europeans, American authors, Australian authors. So we have a nice amalgamation of that kind of knowledge also that we possess. So what separates us? It's just the conversations we have. Absolutely. And like the previous athlete that you know you spoke of uh in this podcast. Correct. Now she didn't have to tell anything about me, right? And we've, I think in the last six or seven years, we might have actually met thrice or four times. But when we have met, I've met her at very, very, very important phases of her life. Correct. You know, and that if you hit it off, they remember. And that's all what it is, actually, at the end of the day. Like you win their trust, you stand up to what they want at that point of time and have a conversation.

SPEAKER_01 23:35

I think you've kind of said this so beautifully, Amea, where you know what I'm hearing is what you're saying is conversations matter, and probably conversations are the only thing that matter. And again, this conversation need not be this conversation need not be verbal. It simply be silent, being available to them, as you have said. Uh they know that you are there. As simple as that. That does so much, so much to the athlete's performance, both physical and mental. But I think you know, also one says that with time, with experiences, we all evolve. Our our canvas only broadens. And there is no end to what we are or what we can be. So I'm sure over the last four years plus, that you know, you have kind of uh uh seen your own arc kind of expanding. Um has it just remained as a sports doctor only, or has it added another facet of uh uh you know possibilities for you?

SPEAKER_00 24:45

Actually, there are two things I would like to state in this. One is that when you call it a sports doctor, there are many more facets opened up within being a sports doctor, which are complete, first of all, in India, the the branch is still quite nascent and juvenile, I would say, as seats are just coming up right now. Okay, because people tend to, you know, uh mix it up with orthopedics and physiotherapists, because both are separate, and the sports medicine angle is also different. So, even in that, and when you throw in like a para sport in that, in that you have something like classification, in classification, you have so many other categories. So, this is like a whole untapped reservoir, and it is a is it's a massive field, actually, if you go, if you dig deeper and deeper into it. So, I have been able to tap those aspects of things, and I don't know whether I'm I should be happy or not so about it. I have a monopoly in that right now. Because as a classifier, I'm national classifier in two sports and international classifier in one sport, and of course, I can oversee the other arrangements made in parasport. So that's one angle to it within the sports doctor profession. Now, outside of it, it's been about administration, handling logistics. Maybe it started off as just you know procuring medication, but it has gone beyond. Like I tell you, for example, now we we also know that wherever we are touring, what will be the weather in that place? What is the climate like on those days? Advise the players on preventive measures like you know, what clothing to carry, or maybe is it how is the is it an infected area? We have vectorborne disease sometimes. Now, when we go to uh certain parts of the country, it's quite rampant. In Europe and all, it gets you have these cold winds blowing sometimes. So that kind of education, which you know it's like thinking out of the box. So that is one facet which is uh like you know, uh what do you call, explored, and I've gotten better at it. So it's just not about kiha baba. You come with symptoms, I treat the symptoms, I do investigations, we follow it up. No, it's not that, it's more to do with the preventive side of things, and prevention might not always be from a medical perspective. Like I told you, it can be logistics too.

SPEAKER_01 27:11

True. You know, they say that there is a playbook that people are kind of fortunate to have uh to be able to refer to it. Um, you know, playbook essentially is a set of well-documented set of guidelines and uh kind of uh what to do in what situations, kind of FAQs kind of stuff. Uh this of course uh happens in more established practices. What I'm hearing from you, correct me if I'm wrong, that what you're saying is in the sports medicine facility in in the work that you have done over the last uh you know couple of years. Uh six years. Six years now. You you also had to end up writing those playbooks because there weren't any.

SPEAKER_00 28:03

Uh I wouldn't I would kind of agree and disagree. I would stick to it that in the Indian scenario it is a lot new.

SPEAKER_01 28:09

Yeah, I'm talking about Indian scenario. I'm talking about Indian scenario. Yeah. Absolutely. Ah, because you know, you you you as they say, you know, um, you know, you you walk uh in uncharted territory because there are no you know guide posts, etc. You figure out your own path. You you make your own path, find, for example. So so I'm sure in in all this uh uh exploration of yours, you would have also made a lot of discoveries and ended up possibly documenting them or keeping them in some format digitally or otherwise, as as a reference to people who are going to follow behind you.

SPEAKER_00 28:49

Yes, and my major work is in the space of classification.

SPEAKER_01 28:53

Can you say more? Can you give an example for us to understand?

SPEAKER_00 28:56

So I'll tell you what like classification is. Like if you've seen able body sport, there is there are these weight category sports, right? So you have a lightweight versus a lightweight, you will not have a lightweight competing in a heavyweight in boxing. Correct. Right now, cut to parasport. Similarly, I'm giving a very, very simplified example. You will not have uh a spinal cord injury at a cervical level compete against a lower limb below knee amputee. So does that make sense? Because it's the competition is unfair. One guy is there who doesn't have sensation, doesn't have power from his chest below. Correct. And then so technically both are para athletes, but they have to be classified, and they need to compete with the people with similar impairment. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_01 29:49

Essentially, it's a it's kind of bringing in a sense of fairness. Would it be fair to say that? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 29:53

But see, because ultimately it is sport, we shall not deviate from sport, correct? And sport means competition, correct? So we are not there to you know garnish empathy or you know, chaloy are let this fell also win that fellow also. No, it is ruthless. Correct. There are world records to be set, correct? You know, there is a kind of pride associated with that. So people who come to watch, they are not come to watch a play or entertainment. Of course, sport is one form of entertainment, but it is not all hunky-dory. They want to see competition. So, classification is one of the ways to make that competition even. Correct. Because you don't want to see a person's impairment, you want to see the person's functions despite of that impairment. Absolutely. And that is para sport.

SPEAKER_01 30:40

I think essentially it also, in some ways, kind of restoring dignity to the athlete. But yeah, you know, if you can just broadly tell us what are the three or four new classifications that you have ended up kind of uh you know uh codifying.

SPEAKER_00 30:58

See, I'll tell you broadly, uh across parasport, the the the athletes are categorized based on these ten kinds of impairments. There's nothing outside these ten. Okay. Out of ten, eight are physical. One is intellectual, one is visual. So you leave two out of them, then the other eight criteria are there, they're all related to the physical impairment. You have your limb length discrepancy, you have amputees, then you have certain uh movements. So I will not go too much into the medical side because it's a thorough neurological examination. Sure. So, and there are 22 uh uh sports in the paralympic cycle. To name a few, you have para-badminton, you have para athletics, you have para-fencing, you have para-basketball, wheelchair rugby, blind football, and so on and so forth. So there are 22 sports. Now, in all of these sports, first criteria is that you need to be having a permanent physical impairment, right? And with every sport, the classification, the process is different. For that, the courses are different, you know. So, for example, across paraathletics has the largest number of classifications. They have almost 45 to 48 classes, so every paraath will have an alphabet and a numerical associated with it, which is not seen and heard in an able-bodied sport. So, in a paraath you will find X number player, what's your category? F35 or F36 or T12, T11, T13. Now, these numbers are associated with the impairment that they have. And when the lots are allotted, a T11 will compete against a T11. A T11 will not compete against F35. So that is like athletics. Now cut to parafencing. There are only four classes in that A1, A2, A4, A3, B2, C1. You know, so again, and A4 will not compete against C1. They will compete with A4 V A4 or A4V A3. That's it.

SPEAKER_01 33:02

So I think in a in a in a in a sense that it's essentially essentially it brings in uh it it brings in fairness, it brings it brings in evenness, and it makes the sport the sport it is meant to be. It is meant to be, yeah. Despite the impairment. You know, Amea, amongst uh all that was happening to you in the world of para-games and the amazing work that you have done over the last six years, much of it I would emphatically say it is pioneering in many ways. Uh I think you have set uh the country up, you have set the para athletes up into a new way of the other way around.

SPEAKER_00 33:47

They have set me up.

SPEAKER_01 33:49

Both ways. I think let's put it both ways. That it has set set and it has brought a sense of recognition and respect to the sport that uh people like us are able to enjoy uh as much. But whilst all this was happening, uh a new world opened for you in the most glamorous sporting event the country has seen almost for two decades almost now, which is the Indian Premier League cricket matches.

SPEAKER_00 34:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:17

And you got associated with one of the most high-profile teams uh in the form of Rajasthan Royals. Uh, how did that happen and how has been that journey?

SPEAKER_00 34:30

Oh, that's also beautiful. I mean, again, it's like you know, uh zero aspirations going back to ground zero, uh, just like connecting and meeting with the right people, and a lot of credit to my work in Para Sport, which got highlighted. And uh, I think in the last segment, I think I made this comment, right? That after you work with certain people, another kind of job profile has its own challenges, but somewhere comparisons can be drawn, and it is a piece of cake. So, like you had soldiers and athletes, that comparison won, and amongst this cycle also, para athletes and able-bodied uh athletes. And to be more specific, right now, I started my journey with Indian hockey first, and then now the Indian Premier League. Uh, so it's quite uh uh different in a few ways, but very similar in so many ways, especially when behind closed doors, it's I think very, very similar. Again, just the fact that it's infinite times the number of cameras and eyeballs, which sometimes people like you know tend to overthink and over-analyze. But that's the job of the viewers, and it's like what we call it as the white noise, or anyone who's not there. This journey happened again. So once you start doing certain work, and the benefit of the sports medicine and the sports science field being in the nascent state is that most of us know each other in this uh in this little small world. Correct. And word spreads. And uh, I remember one of our my army commanders had told me this uh something which travels uh faster than the speed of light is the speed of your reputation. Correct. So then, you know, and touch wood, like if it's gone there, either good or bad or whatever it is, it travels. So you just have to be true to your profession and uh open communication lines, and things will fall into place. And it just happened that we got connected with certain common people, and again, luck is very important. I keep emphasizing on that because any see one thing is that in this field, it's as you also said, that you know it's very glamorous. Correct. Then you be on tours, you have a private uh charter sometimes, you have uh ticket books well in advance, you get kits, you get your own bags, you have your own entourage and everything. So, I mean, to be in that also, you need to know certain people, you need to make your way through in, and then of course, what your work ethics have been, your profile has been. It it just, you know, it's again a very natural process. But yeah, it is very, very high profile. You get the best seated in the house on most occasions, and the decisions that you make have uh you know very, very high financial repercussions.

SPEAKER_01 37:23

Any any um anecdote you would like to share, which uh is probably a moment which you cherish for whatever reasons, uh, with your uh stint and IPL with Rajasthan Royals.

SPEAKER_00 37:39

I mean, the biggest one is like we've already discussed one of the biggest names of Indian cricket is getting to work so closely with Rahul Dravid. And uh I was actually I was actually going there.

SPEAKER_01 37:50

Yeah, so you know, maybe some of your personal encounters with Mr. Rahul Dravid.

SPEAKER_00 37:54

Yeah, so first is that you know, like once you meet up a personality like that, uh, and you are also coming in a certain uh designation. You know, it's it it can't be like a fanboy moment, no matter what the urge is. So you're very professional about it, and credit also to Rahul Bhai that where he makes the environment like very, very approachable, and he's not the Rahul Rabbit you're speaking with. Correct. You know, he'll he'll come to you and he'll always address you with so much respect. And I remember the first time I met him was in a camp in uh near Nagpur, that's where the Rajasthan Royals Academy is, and the work from the IPL official match starts somewhere mid-March, but the work starts you know the previous year in October, or maybe sometimes even earlier. Okay, where the scouting teams happen and uh you know something like that. So, first meeting actually, actually, no first meeting was in Bangalore. There was one camp held in Bangalore itself where we were seeing a few uh boys before the Mecca auction to select and not select, and there were a few people who were standing behind the nets, and then I just approached him, and uh he was so keen on knowing who I am, where I'm coming from, and he was absolutely thrilled when I told him even I'm a Bangalore boy and you know knows Marathi, and even he knows those two languages pretty well. Of course. So we used to converse in both like Marathi and Canada sometimes. Okay, and yeah, so that just and that was just it was not like a break in the ice and some big personality, and then uh so again throughout the season it was on WhatsApp and calling, and he was my neighbor, and unfortunately, unfortunately had an injury just before the season, where you might have seen on those uh audio visuals that he was in a cast and sometimes on a wheelchair. Correct. So then, you know, uh, so then he also joked around it, like you know, it's it's similar to Amias territory, stuff like that. So so in a way, yeah, it was it was pretty good. Uh I mean, very relaxed environment. And it was just so much to learn at that level, like when they reach and how they approach players, and how how he communicates with somebody who's making their debut or somebody who's a seasoned uh uh elite performer for over years. So, I mean, and he comes from a certain stature, right? Of course, of course. Better than him.

SPEAKER_01 40:11

Absolutely. You know, they say that uh the journey of life has several twists and turns. At every twist, at every turn, you see a door on which it is written this door, this lesson for now. And all of us uh irrespective of uh the our our uh professional calling or otherwise, we encounter this experience in our own personal way that we open this door and walk in because certain lesson is waiting for us. So if we were to look at your door, which you read IPL Rajasan Royals, and you kind of opened the door and walked in because certain lessons were waiting for you, uh in hindsight, what could be those lessons? Uh in hindsight, other than what you already already got from your para world of more than six years, something totally new, something totally different.

SPEAKER_00 41:21

In hindsight, I would say my education abroad that that played a bit of a vital role. And just see, because one thing is that in franchise cricket, uh it's not that one set of people. So all the three tournaments that we mentioned in the previous segment, we I was dealing with all Indians. Correct. You know, so we come with a similar kind of a background. The culture, yes, it's varied, but still, you know, we can identify each other with something. But when you have players from West Indies, England, Afghanistan, so that uh played a crucial role where they saw another side to me that, oh yes, he knows how a system. I was in New Zealand for some time, uh, how the system works there. Correct. And how do you handle with this kind of a mindset? You know, that I would say, and second, of course, was obviously the army background, which helps you adapt in so many different situations that you are in.

SPEAKER_01 42:19

Correct.

SPEAKER_00 42:20

Um, so I think those are the two biggest. So I by army background, I mean the logistics. We we you spoke about the uh the playbook, right? So in army we call it the SOP. Correct. Standard operating procedures. So then even for every match, we had to apply that where the ambulance stands and all. So all that came back to me when we used to host even a battalion-level match in the army. So I think that one thing, and of course, the the way you interact with foreign staff. We had a few foreign, like we had Shane Bond, a legendary New Zealand fast bowler. He was our fast bowler. And so, how would how do you approach Shane Bond because fast bowlers are more injury prone? So we had a lot of interaction with Shane Bond, Shane over the season. Um, then we had become Rathor, obviously the batting coach, and we had another fielding coach. So I think that varied experience from to know how some of the people from outside India think and how they approach training and how they approach symptoms. So I think that played, that did play a role because I remember when we had like kind of an informal kind of an interview with their uh CEO and director level uh V10RR, they spoke to me about the experience. So one was obviously the FOG background, then was the specialization from a certain university, from a certain country who's already beginning sport, that is New Zealand. Correct. Which already has a structure. And then, of course, you being at present at high profile events in in the paraspace that is. So these are the three things that I would say which have contributed uh to you know me working with RR.

SPEAKER_01 43:58

You know, in fact. If we were to kind of look at all that we've kind of briefly spoken in the last 35, 40 minutes, um, I think an amalgamation of all that must have gone into giving birth to your own center, credi human performance.

SPEAKER_00 44:19

Absolutely. I mean, I can't emphasize how much it is. See, I'll uh one way is like to look at it in in the way where all the experiences culminated. And the other way to look at it is also it's like you know, sometimes you you you want to have a base. Correct. You want to have that one place which I will call mine, and maybe who knows that you know I can just be uh a fearless non-explorer. So maybe just go back to my clinic and come back. I would I would want that life sometime. So I mean it's that transition which has been so beautiful. And the other thing I'll tell you, Uncle, is that in this whole sporting environment, every sometimes you feel that you know things can get a bit too unpredictable, you know, because I emphasize I think this is the fourth time or third time I'm mentioning the factor of luck. Correct. You have to be there at the right time and the right place. So till now I know that you know it's been with me. I've been with the top people and the league and this thing. Now, next to what I do have ambitions and uh aspirations, if you may call, because it's classification involved. I'm with an international medical board, with the international classification team and all that, but somewhere from that, I also want to do something for our people. By our people, I mean at the grassroots, or a person who's just starting off, that 14-year-old boy. Now I don't want it to be, you know, that is one aspect. And secondly, as I started off one base, which is now Bangalore, and so all that and uh the experience, and so this is my thought process going forward. Like, you know, let's have something of my own, and whatever I have learned and experienced in the past, let that trickle down to a wider audience, maybe starting off with Bangalore because I live here now, and then who knows, maybe in different states also or different cities in Karnataka itself.

SPEAKER_01 46:28

So if if you were to kind of say in one line or maybe two, uh, what is it that your own baby, your own creation, which you have kind of uh you know, early stage, it's you're kind of nurturing it now to pre-di human performance. What do you think you want it to stand for?

SPEAKER_00 46:53

I think it it I it should stand to promote a good physical quality of life. Period. Right from the age of say six to the age of hundred across genders, across cultural backgrounds, across sport. Just promote physical fitness as much as I can because that's become the norm right now, and it's become mandatory, actually. You know, it's no no longer an option courtesy, some of the urban lifestyle right now. And uh just get into that profession where we started off as you know, still stick to the prevention is better than cure. Like not wait to something to happen. And nowadays people are on medication, and that's become so normal, you know. Oh, yeah, sure. Now it's looked at the other way. Oh, you don't have uh a certain lifestyle disease. That's wonderful, yeah. I mean, that's that that conversation only is baffling, correct? You know, so that's the whole endeavor for a certain set of populations. So we are making it a sports science and a sports medicine and sports physiotherapy. So sport is definitely the crux of it, of course, but even if there is no sport, we would promote physical activity because that is the first step towards being an athlete. So there are these three things, right? You have physical activity, you have exercise, and you have sport. People tend to confuse all these three nomenclatures, which is no physical activity is something that you voluntarily do. Now, if you're staying on the third floor, you walk up and down instead of taking the lift. That is physical activity, correct? Right? Now you plan for a 5k or a 10k, or you plan to lift weights in a certain way, reps, that is exercise. Now you prepare a body for a certain sport where you play badminton or cricket or football or whatever the hell you want to play. Correct. Now that is sport. So these are the three various aspects where people should understand the difference. And my goal for the recreation for the larger audience is promote physical activity. Once that comes in, you'll obviously go to the next step, which is exercise. And then the fun element, which is sport. People tend to sometimes jump in directly into sport, and for those who haven't played or above 30, above 40, purely again physiological, I'm talking, it gets difficult and more prone to injuries. So I think they need to be a balance.

SPEAKER_01 49:15

You know, they say that the human body is the greatest gift God has given us. Yeah, the greatest asset. Absolutely. Greatest asset. I mean, for example, if we if we kind of uh for a moment talk about concepts like soul and the body, I mean, soul has no meaning if it has no body to reside. And it has to have a body which is what it is meant to be, which is such a perfectly designed and crafted uh market and with so much of intelligence in every cell of the body. So, yeah, there is so much of wonder that we can we can do with the human body, and I think sports has already shown us what it is possible. But you know, looking at uh the conversation that we've had uh up until now, I think I I was I'm able to you know see uh a word which you just spoke a moment ago, a word called transition. Uh from where you know we had our first recording as you coming as the first guest four and a half years back, and now after four and a half years, all that has happened to you and all that has happened to the sport and the world that you are a part of. I think one thing that seems loud and clear is there are transitions happening all the time. And how we approach each transition where we leave something behind and be open to welcoming the new, as they say, new beginnings, which seems to be another alternate title that I'm kind of uh having for this episode right now, one pondering on. You know, yes, Fearless Explorer 2.0 could be one, but new beginnings could also be another one. Let me see. We I will talk to Asha, who is my co-producer of the show, and probably we'll take a call.

SPEAKER_00 51:06

But I think she's the main boss, not just the co-producer. She is the boss. I think I'll say we can say it on record, you know.

SPEAKER_01 51:14

Of course, I have said it is on record that she she she is the boss. Okay, she she sits on the edit table. Let me put it this way. But fortunately, she has not edited a single line that has spoken up until now because the conversation has been so beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 51:29

Now, wonderful, you know, you have same thing, uncle. Actually, um, it's it's like a lot of credit to you guys and uh coming into this line of uh interviewing, not just interviewing us, just basically conversations which make it so natural. And maybe I think before we just have one WhatsApp message or something and a call, and we're on. And I'm sure majority of your speakers over the past 107, rather 106, I would say, because it's been twice with me. Yes, it's 106 different people speaking, and uh, I think it's it's my fantastic. I've I've heard a few uh people and uh they've just been so fabulous. And I can actually, when you speak, I can I know that you know sometimes where this is going and what does Uncle want to get from that speaker. So it's it's actually a lot of credit to you guys and uh the whole team behind because it's not an easy job. Like I know because for my center, I'm sitting to promote it, and you know, we have a bit of a team doing the video and audio and stuff. So people just think it's two people talking, okay, recording, and then boom, it goes out. It's just not that. And the thing about the internet is as it stays.

SPEAKER_01 52:33

But you know, by the way, you know, now that you have said all so many beautiful things about doing a podcast, I mean, what I can say is this uh passion project, labor of love, we are just doing this because we enjoy good conversations with amazing people like you. We've been so fortunate to meet more than 100 of them all across the world. And uh this, thanks to the power of the internet and thanks to the power of people wanting to listen to good conversations. Uh, in the world of reels, there is an alternate reality that also exists of people wanting to listen to a long format conversation like a good old radio broadcast, because this is not a video podcast at all. This is by design an audio podcast, and people are looking forward for such good conversations. I mean, the the certificate is today, after four and a half years, Amea. I'm so happy to share with you that this podcast has been heard in over 112 countries.

SPEAKER_00 53:36

Oh, wonderful. So good. So cool.

SPEAKER_01 53:39

In over 1600 plus locations.

SPEAKER_00 53:43

Uh, I have no That's given the explorer me a bit of a FOMO, you know, wanting to visit those countries now.

SPEAKER_01 53:48

For example, I have no clue why would somebody in a place called Khaiber Pakhtunwa, which is an extremely small town bordering Pakistan and Afghanistan in the Hindu Kush mountain, uh, why would somebody uh over there listen to our podcast? I have no clue. Why would somebody in a place called uh Belize, which is a city country in South America, why would that, whoever that is, we have no clue. But as they say, a good story or a good conversation finds its own listeners. So we've been so fortunate and we have been so motivated to take this to season six, uh soon starting, which will be on a specific theme. And the theme is uh conversation on transition. Transition as a phenomenon. And I think this conversation that we're having today, which is the 108th episode of Wings Podcast, is the final episode on season five. And I cannot say, you know, thank you. It's too small a word for uh this Amea to you. That you have you have you have kind of created a platform for us to get into season six through your narrative of transitions, where we now move into a conversation which is only around transitions.

SPEAKER_00 55:11

So Okay, that's so cool. I just really nice.

SPEAKER_01 55:14

And you know, all I can say is a big thank you for coming back again uh and completing the circle and helping us complete one round of Japamala of 108. Uh before we end the conversation. No, yeah, you know, before I end this conversation, you know, just to love to hear from you, you know what is it that you can do.

SPEAKER_00 55:37

Yeah, I mean, it's it's it's so it's so beautiful. Like I I vaguely remember uh Jan. I think we had we started the conversation again a couple of weeks prior to it. I was completely alien as to what you guys are up to now. And uh so one thing led to another. I think that time I think you had sent me a mail. Correct. So then talking about transition, so then knowing about your podcast, your style of talking, me going through it and listening to other speakers and all that, cut to four and a half years down the line. So from a from I think three or four paragraph email ID, I was inside that time, I remember. We both shot it to uh maybe three WhatsApp messages this time, one week before. Yes. So I think that sums up the transition and the ease of which you have also evolved as a host. Uh, and uh looking at the whole journey of wings, which is such a beautiful name, which is looking to take flight all the time. And I'm sure it is very apt that it has traveled to 112 countries because the sky knows no boundaries. And that's how we'll end it at. And all the best to your next season and whatever you you guys have have planned. I'm sure it will be really, really, really interesting and looking forward for it, Angular.

SPEAKER_01 56:53

Thank you so much, Amea. Wish you good luck. You take care, and uh, may all your dreams come true with your new baby, the Kreda Human Performance uh entity. Thank you for your time today, my dear listeners. This is your host, Milind Agni Hutri, signing off. Goodbye, take care, and stay safe. This podcast is for general information purposes only and should not be considered as a piece of any professional advice. Views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of its guest. Creators of this podcast expressly disclaim any and all liability or responsibility for any direct or indirect consequential or other damages arising out of any individual's use of this podcast. For feedback and suggestions, please write to wingsindia seventy-five at gmail.com. Thank you.