Therapy Talks Sessions Part 3 “I Feel Like I Can Do Anything Now" with Shelby T.

Watch Along on YouTube
Have you ever wanted to be a fly on the wall for a real therapy session? The wait is over. In this series by Therapy Talks, licensed clinical therapist Joelle Rabow Maletis is joined by special guest Shelby Tessier. You all have VIP seats to sit in on Shelby’s therapy experience!

This is the 3rd Episode in the series.
Check out the first two episodes here:
Episode 1
Episode 2
Youtube Playlist

In the second episode we learned about  Shelby's experiences with anxiety and stress, and how to use CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy) and breathing techniques to help cope. In this episode we join Shelby as she understands perfectionism and how it can lead to people pleasing habits that affect her relationship with food and her body. 

We hope that by sharing Shelby's story, we can help others who are struggling with similar issues.

Thank you for joining us.

Joelle is a well-known author, keynote speaker, podcast host and psychotherapist. Joelle's expertise includes trauma, PTSD, eating disorders and military psychology. Her career highlights include being a guest speaker on authoring a Ted-Ed video on PTSD, ABC’s 60 Minutes: Beyond the Headlines, and several Outstanding Achievement Awards for Top Female Executive.

Joelle's passion is helping people find empowerment by discovering how to be their best (not perfect) successful self through authentic skills-based, self-discovery. As a psychotherapist, Joelle uses Solution Focused Therapy, Trauma Informed techniques like EMDR, Post Traumatic Growth, mindfulness, strategic inquiry as well as encouragement! Joelle's goal is to provide feedback and interaction that allows clients to grow through informed, healthy, and compassionate decisions.

Find out more about Joelle Maletis:
Website:  https://joellerabowmaletis.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/official.jo...
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/JoelleRabowM...

Learn More About Switch Research:
https://switchresearch.org/
Instagram: @switchresearch

Disclaimer: Therapy Talks does NOT provide medical services or professional counseling, and it is NOT a substitute for professional medical care.

Transcript

[00:00:00] You know, it's like picture  someone sitting beside you and being like, you should eat that you should eat that you should eat that. And they just like, won't stop telling you what to do. And you're like, okay, I'll do it then. So it's like, it's so hard to just sit with the uncomfortable feeling.

[00:00:16] But as I know, because I've been practicing, not binge eating, I started to just sit with it and I was really, really shocked at how fast it went away and how like fast, I was able to create this new habit. I, I honestly thought it would take me months. And it took me about like three tries.

[00:00:37] Hi, Shelby. Hi, how are you? I'm good. Thanks. How are you doing? I'm doing well. Good, good. So third session in, I wanted to just, um, you know, me, I like to set our agenda, so I wanted to find out what was on your list. I know you like to take notes in between sessions and, um, then I can tell you a little bit about what I was thinking and we can jump right in.

[00:01:02] How does that. Yep. That's great. I have it listed out here, so , I'll just go through it. Um, so if we talk about the last two weeks, um, did something really big a few days ago. So I wanna talk about that, cuz I use some of our techniques that I've been learning with you. So I'm really excited about that. I'm about halfway through the book, the body keeps the score.

[00:01:20] Oh wow. Um, and then I also wanted to talk today about kind of like why I hold stress in my stomach and some ways that I can, um, deal with that and help like the stress less stress in my stomach basically. Okay. Um, and then a little bit, I wanted to talk about food and like my relationship with food. And then, uh, I had a question about why I default to crying as my main emotion where other people might be anger or et cetera.

[00:01:51] And then I have, um, one thing I wanted to talk about, uh, maybe it's a little bit of like people pleasing where I have a hard time doing what I wanna do. Some. And I just kind of default to what other people wanna do. So yeah, those are the things. Okay. So just, I just wanna make sure that I, I got everything.

[00:02:10] So, um, relationship with food and, and some issues around that, holding stress in your stomach. Right. Or that anxiety I get my guess is there's some relational component there. Right. Um, you did a really big thing and used your skills. So 10 gold stars. I can't wait to hear about that. Um, and then also talking a little bit more about, I think, just, just relational stuff with the anxiety, if I'm hearing you correctly, did I get everything?

[00:02:42] Yeah. Okay, good. And I just wanted to follow up from last time, you know, it was a difficult session and I wanted to see if you had any more thoughts on that. If you felt like there were some things that were left undone from our session that we needed to revisit or. that you thought of? No, I think for me, it'll just be about like practicing the techniques and I think the more I ed them, like the easier I'm hoping that it'll get.

[00:03:11] Um, so no, I don't, I can't really think of anything that was left undone. Yeah. I just, I wanna keep practicing. Mostly. I've been focusing on the breathing one, I think for me, the breathing one has been helping the most. Okay. And then the other thing you said too was why do you cry? That was the one thing I just left off my list.

[00:03:27] Why do you cry? And that, that becomes your, your default, um, So where would be a good place for us to start today? Which one do you wanna tackle first? Um, we can do maybe the positives from the last weeks. okay. That sounds great. Okay. So I was really proud because I'm, I'm really scared of Heights and we, me and my partner have been talking about doing this climb for the past three years.

[00:03:51] It was over 500 meters in elevation of climbing. It was an eight hour way up and a two hour hike down. So it, it was huge. There was 19 climbs in it. Um, and it's just something like, I didn't really think I could do. And I try not to think too much about it beforehand or also psych myself up, out, out. Sorry.

[00:04:09] I was always like that during a test too. Like I would never, some people would study right before the test. I would just be like, Nope, it's in here. When I get there, it's just gonna flow. So that's what I tried to do too. I just was not thinking about it until it was happening. And, uh, for fun, I took a poll and I asked all my friends.

[00:04:25] I said, how many times do you think I'm gonna cry on this climb? and everyone was like so many times like every single climb. Anyway, I only had one really big, um, cry, which was, I was super proud of, but my partner said the whole time, my eyes were like this big he's like, every time I looked at you, you look like you were in like a state of panic.

[00:04:46] And I, I was like, I was very anxious, but I practiced four techniques, which I'm super proud of. So I practiced deep breathing was my main one. The whole time. I was just like deep breath in deep breath out. So just like trying to calm myself, um, cuz there was a lot of the climbs where he couldn't see me too.

[00:05:04] So I was alone. So I was like, Hey, come on, you got this? You know? So that brings me into my next salon. I was doing a lot of positive self talk. I was like being my own, like I was encouraging myself. I was saying like, you got the, like in my own voice, you got the Shelby like, come on, like keep going and just like really, um, be encouraging towards myself.

[00:05:23] So I was proud of that. Um, and then the next one I was doing was visualization. Um, so instead of visualizing, you know, that the rope would break or that I would fall and I would die. I was visualizing like, um, how well I was gonna do on the climb or. You know, seeing my partner again and, and more positive things.

[00:05:42] And then again, I was doing the reframing through, um, words as well. So, um, if, when it started to get windy, I started to get really afraid cuz we were so high up and I kept picturing like me blowing off the cliff. Um, instead I would be like, oh wow. The wind feels really good on my skin or like things like that.

[00:06:00] So yeah, I, I got to practice before. I mean I had lots of time cuz it was a full eight hours of, of this. So that is, that is so awesome. So how do you, how do you feel about yourself and your success? Oh, I feel really good. Like I said, it was something that I didn't think that I was able to accomplish. And I mean, I was panicked and afraid the entire time, but at least I got through it and there was at one point I wanted to, um, you could walk off at one, one point out of the whole thing and I honestly considered walking off.

[00:06:33] Um, I can tell you about why I actually ended up crying. Um, so. We, I was deciding debating whether I want to walk off. And my partner said we only have three more climbs. Like we've already come this far. Let's let's just keep going. And if you want, I said, okay, let's keep going. But then as he's going up, this climb, these two other people come, these three other people come by and I asked them just to make sure that we're on the right one, cuz there's so many on this wall.

[00:07:00] And they say, oh no, I don't think you guys are on the right one. There's seven left. So now I'm like I'm emotionally, mentally and physically just like exhausted. And I, I do not wanna do seven more. Like I, I just don't think I have it in me and it's too late cuz I called Tate and he's already up and he's on.

[00:07:20] He's like, I think we just need to continue now. And um, so I do this climb and it's the hardest one out of the whole series. And it was like, not something I was capable of, even with him, like helping me up and me pulling on the draws, which are not like mm-hmm, , you know, technically whatever you're supposed to do.

[00:07:37] And, um, even then I was still having a hard time getting up. So when I saw him, I just started like breaking down, crying, and he's really good at consoling me and stuff. And he gives me a good pep talk and all that, but yeah, that was the only time that I really had a breakdown. And I mean, it made sense for me and I was accepting of it, so.

[00:07:58] Okay. So few things, right. One is that you, you know, you started off saying, okay, I was making bets with my friends to see how many times you cried. And it sounds like, and they're all like, oh, a lot. Right. But you only cried once. Yeah. That's a huge win, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I mean, I had, I had tears in my eyes a few times, but they didn't fall.

[00:08:24] So I don't think it counts that doesn't count. We're not gonna keep that . And then the other thing that, um, you said is that I couldn't do it. I couldn't get up there. And so when I saw Tate, I started to cry, but you did do it right? I mean, yeah, I did do it with his health thankfully, but yeah, I did do it, but you did do it so you could, so you can do it right.

[00:08:53] You could do it, but you can do it, right. Yeah. So notice like how, so sit with that for a second, right? Like, like you can do it. What does that feel like? Not what do you think about it, but what does that feel like? That you can do it. Like the like proud is that? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was super fulfilled after I felt really good.

[00:09:26] I get really chatty when I get fulfilled. So I just like chatted all night about it. Well, it's, I think it's a big milestone, right? Because, you know, you started off, especially with our session saying like I'm terrified of fight Heights. I'm afraid I'm gonna die. Like, from that to just a few weeks of like, that was the hardest part of an eight hour climb, which is that's huge to begin with.

[00:09:51] Right. That you, you can do that eight hour climb and then the hardest part of the climb, you can do that too, right? Yeah. And it was interesting to push myself in a way too, where the third, last one, I was really, I wasn't interested in doing it. I was like, no, I don't wanna do this. Like I'm out. But when you're kind of faced with no choice, It's like, no, you kind of have to, you can't just be stuck on the side of the cliff, you know?

[00:10:19] So just to kind of push myself to do something, even though I didn't wanna do it, it reminds me of like every day too, you know, some days you don't, I don't know, feel like cleaning the house or working that day. You're not feeling well, but kind of pushing yourself, um, to do it anyway or get into a consistent routine.

[00:10:36] That's not to say that people don't need breaks. Like, of course. Sure. So, I mean, so in a way, did you, were you surprised at how resilient you actually are? Mm-hmm yeah. And I kept reminding myself, um, when you, I think you called it like indexing or last session mm-hmm, how I was able to calm myself down through those breathing techniques.

[00:10:57] Well, I kept referencing that I kept being like, well, I calm myself down that one time, so I know I'm capable of it. So every time I'm in a situation where I feel anxious, I go back to that, like you said, and I reference it and be like, oh, I'm capable of calming myself. yeah. Good. And so, okay. So did it super chatty came back down, it sounds like you actually had a lot of fun.

[00:11:25] Yeah, there was I, I paused there because there was points of it where it was fun, but I'm not gonna lie. There was points of it where I was, I was done. I was ready to come down and be on the ground, but mm-hmm it was all worth it in the end. Got it. So what's the big, like, I, I wanna say not kind of thought takeaway, but like emotionally, like what's your big emotional takeaway about how you're feeling about the experience.

[00:11:52] I guess I kind of felt, I told my partner this too after I, I, I was like, I feel like I can do anything now. You know, I feel like I'm, I'm very capable of more than I thought. Um, like mentally, emotionally, and physically. And, um, yeah, I just feel like I learned so much, so yeah, I was just overall super fulfilled, I think is a good emotional word to use.

[00:12:15] Great. And, and, you know, again, highlighting that you did that, like, you know, you, you were able to do it, you used your skills, you know, not, not that it wasn't hard, scary and challenging, right? Not, but. You, you know, and you still did it. Yeah, I it's super interesting timing too, cuz I keep wondering if I would've done this maybe a year or two ago before I started therapy, if I would have been as successful as I, as I was like, had I not, would I have been able to continue?

[00:12:49] Would I have cried more? Would I have known those techniques? Right, right. So I think it was just really good timing. Perfect. Yeah. Sometimes that's the trick with therapy too, is it, it, it is all about the timing, you know? Um, for whatever reason, just not the right time. Weren't ready, whatever doesn't doesn't even matter.

[00:13:09] Right. I think, I think just staying. To this positive of remembering how the pro you know, the pride that you feel and that resilience, the resiliency that you feel, and that becomes your new indexing event. Makes sense. Yeah. So like, when things get hard, you know, you're like, wait a minute. I, I can do hard things.

[00:13:31] I did, I've done hard things. Right. I, it it's okay. That it's hard. It's okay. That I may struggle. It's okay. If I cry. Right. Um, I have the skills now to get myself through the hard moments and I can do hard things. So really starting to make that your mantra and keep that as your new indexing event. Does that make sense?

[00:13:52] Yep. Okay, cool. So cool. um, actually I think that's a good time to talk about then why like crying is my default emotion. It's a, it's a great question. And I don't, I don't know if there's a real specific, um, individualized response. I think what happens is for some people, and we talked in the, in our first session, right.

[00:14:17] And I said, you know, you're very empathic. You, you feel all your feels and you feel everybody else's feels all at the same time. And so I think because that's just your character, your, your nature of who you are, um, then that's not a negative. I think it's just, it is what it is. That's the way that, that expresses for you.

[00:14:39] So I feel like for you, it's this buildup overwhelm. If you think about a tea kettle, I think we might have talked about that analogy before. Right? You fill it up with water, you put it on the stove and it steams eventually it whistles. Right. And what happens is it burns out if you were to leave it on.

[00:14:58] The stove. Right. And you take it off the stove, it stops whistling. And so it's a really good analogy for, I think this, I think what happens is you, you bubble up and so instead of yelling or completely emotionally shutting down, right. Your reaction is, is that, that you cry, that's that release valve. Right.

[00:15:19] And then you can sort of start to recenter yourself. And so what, what I love about the, we say in narrative therapy, the story that's not meant to be dismissive or, or degrading, it's a term we use in narrative therapy. So when you're talking about the story and, and how you were feeling and experiencing the climb, right, that's a really good example of using your skills and tools.

[00:15:45] to be able to develop a different way to manage some of the fear anxiety. So it's not getting to that point where you're boiling, you know, it's bubbling over and you're crying. Does that make sense? Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. Like, um, what's that called? When, when you know you do so like rehab rehab. Yeah. Like try

[00:16:06] Okay. It was in my head. I can't explain it, but I understand. Yeah. It's, it's just, it's your trained response. You know, some of it comes from, um, you know, people will come in and they say, um, like I get so frustrated that instead of yelling or being super focused or shutting down, I cry. Like I'm not sad.

[00:16:30] It's it's my response to feeling overwhelmed and frustrated. Other people will say, you know, I feel everything. And so when I'm listening to things or I'm watching social media, my going through my friends' experiences, I cry. So I think like crying is a very unique thing. It's more complicated than we think.

[00:16:50] So I think for you, when we talk about that being your defense mechanism, right. I think that's what's happening is that you're just flooded. And so it it's the pressure relief valve for you. So what you're learning now is that with that breathing and the positive reframing, using those indexing events, right?

[00:17:10] You can start to relieve some of that pressure before it gets to the point where you're panicked and crying. Okay. That's what I was trying to say. It's kind of like stretching your muscles so that, you know, um, you're warmed up and you don't break something or hurt yourself. I was trying to say like prehab, like yeah.

[00:17:28] Rather than after the fact, like learning these techniques so that I don't get to that point. Exactly. And then, and then what I love, there's so much about, about your experience that, that I love. I'm super proud of you. Like I said, 10 gold stars. Like you, you did therapy. Perfect. Um, and you managed the situation really well.

[00:17:50] Not, but you still cried because anytime we say, but we negate what we just experienced. I think it's okay. And you cried once, which was significantly less than you thought mm-hmm . Um, and it was still O not, but, and it was still okay. So it's like you went through this really hard thing. You, you still had a moment where you cried and you were able to.

[00:18:15] Complete the climb without having the panic and anxiety be really proud of yourself, prove to yourself that you're resilient. And so even if you have a few moments where you are crying, you were able to reset and get back on track super quickly. Right? Okay. Thank you. . Yeah. So, so my, you know, the goal is that, is it realistic to say that my goal is to never, ever cry in situations like that?

[00:18:45] Probably not. Like, I don't know if that's even what you would want. Right? Yeah. Cause sometimes it feels good, you know, to let it out and to not hold it in. Yeah. It's cathartic. Right. Like, you know, after really good cry, it's like, there's that emotional exhaustion, but then we feel lighter. I don't wanna say better, but there's this sort of like, okay.

[00:19:07] I don't feel so weighted down. And so keeping that in mind too. maybe that was part of the process for you to get through something that was really scary. You're really high up the wind is like, there's a lot of factors that would cause that anxiety. And so maybe the crying and that release is more cathartic and it allowed you to continue.

[00:19:29] It may not be a, a negative. Either. Right. I found it super interesting how high alert I was to sounds too. Ah, because I talked to my partner after and I, I said when the, um, cuz the highway's right there and so you hear a lot of the traffic, but there was an ambulance go by and immediately I almost like went into a panic a little bit and my partner's like, I didn't even hear the ambulance.

[00:19:52] So I was just like on hyper alert or there was like a few people to the right of us, like yelling back and forth to each other. And that kind of freaked me out a bit too. And he's like, yeah, I, I didn't really notice that that much. So I guess that's that hyper alertness mm-hmm right, exactly. And so your senses are gonna be fine tuned.

[00:20:09] So you're paying attention. We call it like situational awareness. You're starting to pay attention to all of the different factors in that particular situation. And that's not, again, not a bad. Thing to have. It's really more about using that to your advantage. So you hear the ambulance, you may look around and log to make sure everything's okay.

[00:20:32] And then that, that I'm okay. And positive reframing and then getting back to, to climbing again. Right. Okay. Because it, it, that's actually part of your safety mechanism, your internal safety mechanism. And so, you know, you want that to work for you when you need it. It doesn't have to be on, on hyperdrive all the time.

[00:20:53] Right. But that's not something that we really wanna, let's say like, oh, let's work on getting rid of that per se. Right. Yeah, it it's kind of like mindfulness when your, like, thoughts are kind of trying to drive you a certain direction and then you kind of revert them back to exactly. Okay. Okay. Good, good analogy.

[00:21:12] Yeah. Yeah. Okay, cool. Um, so yeah. Um, I next, if we're able to talk about kind of why I hold stress in my stomach, cuz every, everyone holds it in different places, right? Mm-hmm um, so maybe why like minds in my stomach and maybe techniques to help with that. I actually, um, I have IBS, so someone just recommended that I tried Pilates.

[00:21:34] I've literally never tried Pilates in my life, but I just followed a, like a 25 minute YouTube video yesterday and it was actually really nice. It did help me feel better. Like I, I get trapped gas and it was helping with that. Mm-hmm um, so I don't know if you've heard anything about Pate's helping with, with this, but yeah, Pilates, um, yoga there's um, you know, YouTube has a plethora of, of videos and, um, You can look for, um, any kind of yoga POL map, Pilates, um, stretching exercises for IBS.

[00:22:09] Okay. There's actually some really good stuff out there. And that might, that might help. Um, I think we talked about it before where that fight flight freeze mechanism, um, and all of our emotional regulation hormones. So things like dopamine and, um, serotonin actually primarily are produced in the stomach, not in our brain.

[00:22:33] And so when you get nervous, if you're having an IBS attack, if, um, it's something is scary, right? Or you that stress where you, you know, that you notice your body is kind of clenching mm-hmm , um, it makes sense, right? That your stomach is gonna start to really feel upset. And so I would take a look at.

[00:22:56] there's a lot of, of really good free apps. And again, on YouTube, some, maybe two minute guided meditations for stomach upset, IBS, um, or, you know, holding anxiety in the stomach. And that might help for you to have something go to on your phone. That, that in those moments you can listen to, to see if you can kind of calm some of that, that down.

[00:23:21] I think it, it makes sense to me. I think some of it is just, that's the way that your, your biochemistry is wired. And so reducing stress for you, especially since you're carrying it in, in the stomach, and then you also have the IBS, that's gonna make it worse, um, would be helpful. But, but that's, that's, what's happening is most of the stress hormones and, and emotional regulating har hormones are in your stomach.

[00:23:49] So interesting. Okay. That's what, that's why that, if I don't know, if you get nauseous, Uhhuh, when you get stressed, Yeah. Yeah. That that's, that's all of that stuff. And so, um, I'm not a prescribing physician. Um, I have read research where there's certain supplements that help with that. Um, I wouldn't suggest to recommend any today.

[00:24:14] It's not, not my scope of practice. Mm-hmm it might be worth talking if you have a doctor or functional medicine specialist, um, acupressure helps that you, you can do that on yourself. Okay. Um, that's you talked about self massage, so it's a little bit similar. It's just, um, there are different Accu pressure points in your body, um, that help alleviate some of.

[00:24:39] The, the stomach upset and then, um, acupuncture, which you would go to a clinician to do. Yeah, can't do that one. It, it, I, it gives me anxiety when I'm there. I just, nevermind. I get that, but I like the other ones, so thank you. Yeah, pressure. Um, there's a lot of different, different points in your hands that in your feet that, um, relate to stomach and GI issues.

[00:25:05] Again, there's some really good explainer YouTube videos out there. Um, they're easy to do, like you can do it at, um, this one here is usually for headaches. Like you can do this at your desk and, and do. You know, some pressure that might Aleve some of the symptoms for you too. Okay. But, but again, I'm not a, I'm not an MD, so I would, I'm not, you know, a medical doctor.

[00:25:28] So I would want you to, like, if you notice it's getting worse, check in with your medical doctor, just to make sure that there's nothing organically going on. I don't wanna say, oh, it's anxiety and we miss that. Well, maybe there's something more to. Right. Thank you. Yeah. I've had a few, um, things done and looked at and okay.

[00:25:46] They said they can't really see anything, so kind of declared it as IVs, but it's always a hard one cuz. Yeah. Um, so what was I gonna say here? Oh yeah. So I was talking to a dietician for about four months and that was super helpful to kind of rebuild my relationship with food, but one of the things, and I also read the book brain over binge by Catherine Hanson.

[00:26:09] Have you read it? Mm-hmm that's a good one. I loved it. Like life changing. It was incredible. So one of the things I'm still struggling with though is say I ate good for the day mm-hmm and then I start feeling. Not so good in my stomach. I kind of like punish myself. I go, oh, okay, well then you're not feeling good.

[00:26:28] Even though you took all the necessary steps to feel good. Well, now I'm just gonna continue the rest of the day and eat, not eat food. That's gonna make me feel good. Mm-hmm so I don't know why I'm punishing myself because it's only me who has to deal with the pain. Right. But I, yeah, I, I don't really know how to get kind of through that.

[00:26:47] So where do you think that that ties into? So we had talked about, you know, core beliefs, right. That if, you know, if I don't climb well, then you know, Tate's not gonna love me. Right. Or Tate, Tate's gonna abandon me. We remember we talked about that in our first session. I'm wondering if there's something there around food, like, oh, I, I, I still didn't do it.

[00:27:12] Perfect. Right. So I'm wondering like, okay, if you don't. if you, you know what I mean? Even if you ate foods that make you feel good, mm-hmm um, and you still have some upset with it. I wonder what that means to you. Right. I don't know. I might need more help with this one. Yeah. Yeah. So, so do you feel like it's a perfection thing?

[00:27:42] Like I still didn't do it, you know, good enough or. I'm more just like annoyed that I'm in pain so often. Okay. And I just feel like I take a lot of steps to, you know, avoiding certain foods and I've been eating more mindfully and more intuitively and eating slower and trying to eat without distractions.

[00:28:03] I just feel like I have to take all these like extra steps sometimes when I see like my partner, just being able to eat, like whatever he wants and he feels fine. And it's just frustrating to me because, you know, even though I take these steps, I still don't feel good some days. So then it's like, well, if you're gonna do this to me, Bonnie, I'm gonna do this to you actually.

[00:28:22] And I do hold people to a certain level. Now we're getting to it. I hold people to a certain level maybe. And I expect them to treat me the way I treat them, but I hold, I think sometimes too high, even myself. So maybe I'm kind of holding my body to an unrealistic expectation. Do you, do you feel like it's like body betrayal, like.

[00:28:47] you know, my body, like my body should be right. Should be acting a certain way. Or, you know, my D my digestive system should be functional and I feel dysfunction. Yes, definitely. Yeah. I feel like it's betraying me. I'm like, I'm being good to you right now. Why are you doing this to me? Okay. And so then the self sabotage is what, what do you think that's about when you're like, you know, I call it the efforts.

[00:29:18] you know, where right. The, the fill in the blank, right? Oh, the, yeah, where you're kind of like, all right. F it, like, I, I done, I've done all this work and I'm still getting the same result as if I didn't do the work in the first place. Right. Does that resonate? Yes. Yeah. Where does that come from? Um, yeah.

[00:29:43] it's just frustrating. I guess. I don't, I don't can I, so like, like when you, when you, like you said, okay, you've done, done well with your eating for that day. And you're like, I ate foods that are good for my body. Um, cuz I don't believe that there are good foods and bad foods. It's a whole nother discussion.

[00:30:00] Yeah. So you, you ate foods that were good for your body and you still have distress. So tell me the emotion. So frustration. Yeah. Betrayal. What else? Pain. Okay. Uh, like uncomfortable um, what do you emotionally feel? Um, wait, is that different from the emotions we just named? Yeah. Like what, what, so you, you gave me your physical symptoms, but you know, emotions like, okay.

[00:30:37] So frustration, betrayal. Do you feel, um, Like a sense of like giving up, like why bother? Yeah. Yeah. What, what would you call that? Um, I call it like this emotional fatigue. Right. Okay. But just sort of apathy, right? That would be the name for the emotion feeling apathetic. Like, eh, why bother? Yeah. That one okay.

[00:31:03] Yeah. Um, sad, I guess. Okay. Yeah. Confused. Actually, I'm confused because I'm like, I did this and this is supposed to equal that and it's not okay. Anger. Uh, well, more, more frustrated. I, I don't, I don't, I don't get super, I don't feel that one a lot. Anger. Okay. Got it. Anything else? Like, like emotionally, uh, I don't think so.

[00:31:33] I think that's all. Yeah. So what, so what do you get out of? Like the, okay. You know, the effort, I'll just do it anyway, like you, so it doesn't mean that's positive. Like you're getting something great from it. So could be a negative. So what do you get when you say, eh, well, I'm getting more pain that's for sure.

[00:31:56] For sure. Okay. What else? Keep going, give it a laundry list. Okay. So more pain. Um, like I'm probably upset with myself because I'm like, well, you, you know, you shouldn't have done that, uh, regret regret. Okay. Um, I'm still sad because now I'm still in pain. Yeah. You, do you feel undeserving? Would that be a fair characteristic?

[00:32:24] I don't. I don't, I don't think so. Okay. I don't think that's one of them. Okay. Um, so self sabotage, um,

[00:32:38] D is it more on the perfectionism side of things where you're you think things like? Um, um, well, I didn't get it right. Like, I I'll never get it right. Like. I'm not. Yeah. Yes. But I think it's just, cuz I've tried so many things. Okay. And it's like, yeah, I do feel like I have to do four things. Like I said, eat slowly.

[00:33:04] Um, don't eat at late at night. Like there's so many rules I have to follow. So I feel like it's just, it's it's overwhelming. There's just, there's so many rules. Mm-hmm so overwhelming. Frustrated. And then do you feel like you just, you it's too, like it's just too, it's so hard to maintain that you just never get it right.

[00:33:25] Would that be a good? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So, um, so I think so the self sabotage is, is I'm never gonna get it. Right. So then why bother? Does that feel like that resonates. . Yeah, but I mean, I will pick it back up and I will follow the rules, but then every once in a while it's like, oh, it it's it's, you know, what's frustrating to me too.

[00:33:51] Is that okay? So say I ate something and in my mind there's not a singular thing that it could have been. It's not like, oh, I eat cheese. So that's why I don't feel good. Cuz sometimes cheese affects me and sometimes it doesn't. So I'm like, does it matter? What kind of cheese does it matter? How much I eat of it?

[00:34:06] Like the portion size. So now I go on my head. Oh, well it could have been the gluten in it. Oh it could have been the cheese. Oh, it could have been that I ate too fast. So it's like, it's confusing and frustrating for me to not know the singular thing. It was mm-hmm because now it's gonna be hard to just avoid that singular thing and it could have been any of the three or four things that day.

[00:34:28] Right. Right. And it's, and, and then going back to the body betrayal feeling like, you know, I should be able to just eat whatever I. Right. Yeah. Ideally. Yeah, that would be nice. Wouldn't it? Yeah. Um, okay. So where, you know, there's a couple of different approaches here. So one question I have for you is after working with the nutritionist, do you have a list of foods that, um, are kind of the, the not bad foods, but not good for your body foods?

[00:35:07] Do you have a list of foods that you can consume in moderation? Do you sort of know these different categories of what works for you? Yeah. Well, for a while, like, it's been like a couple years now. I like garlic and minions are two that I can't, I call them gun onions. Yeah. But I can't eat those. Um, which is so sad cuz I used to eat them for breakfast.

[00:35:26] Like I love them so much. And another thing that's frustrating for me with those is they're healthy. So again, I'm, I'm like, I'm frustrated because I'm like, these are supposed to be nourishing for my body, but I can't eat them. Right. Cuz they cause me too much gas. Uh, and then yeah, so I know sometimes cheese, like I said, I, I'm still unsure about gluten greasy foods is like a big trigger for me.

[00:35:47] Like even chips I find like really hurt my stomach. Um, and then yeah, the other triggers is eating, um, three hours or less before bed, which is hard, cuz my schedule's very all over the place. Right. Um, and then eating too much at once I eat like six times a day, really like small portions. I can't eat a lot at once.

[00:36:06] I get really full quickly. Um, and yeah, like really, almost like doing a meditation when I breathe has been really helpful. Just mm-hmm putting my fork down, taking a few deep breath. Taking a bite chewing, slowly paying attention to the texture and the taste. But again, it's hard, right? Sometimes in a I'm in a rush and I'm just like so hungry and I just wanna eat a bunch.

[00:36:28] So a lot of rules, a lot of rules and, and the intuitive eating is really important, especially with IBS. Um, you know, it, it definitely helps the absorption. Um, so that, I think that that's great that you're, that you're implementing the, the meditation mindfulness breathwork intuitive eating component. I would say it might be worth for you.

[00:36:54] It might be worth looking at, um, trying to identify the, the food groups a little bit closer. Um, but that doesn't necessarily get out of the, this, the psychology behind, like what you're saying, which is okay, I know this isn't great for me. I did, you know, I did well with my eating. I still feel crummy. So now I'm just like, okay, forget it.

[00:37:19] I already feel bad. So it doesn't matter what I eat. Right. And so there's some magic in there. There's something about, about that process for you where you're getting you're, you're moving into that state of apathy, right? Where, like I said, I call it the efforts. Um, and so, um, if we weren't recording, I would, you know, um, I, yeah, no, I call it the efforts.

[00:37:45] And so there's something in there for you. That's that self sabotage. Right. Um, and so that's what I'm really curious about is what's going on for you when, um, it's been a rough, it's been a rough day, whether food choices. Or positive food choices and negative outcome. Make sense? Yeah. Yeah. Um, well I know Catherine, she, in her book, the brain over binge book, she talks about kind of like how it's just neurological junk that comes up when you want a binge eat.

[00:38:18] So the reason I'm not talking about binge eating is cuz I honestly feel like I have a really good handle on it now where, before I read this book and before I talked to she's a dietician, sorry, not a nutritionist, but before I spoke to her, I was binge eating like every day. And so the reason I'm not talking about it anymore is cuz yeah.

[00:38:35] I feel like I I'm a lot better with that now. But, um, where was I going with this? Oh, we were talking about, yeah, go ahead. Sorry. Thank you. so she says that to just when binge eating comes up, just listen to the thoughts, but you don't have to act on them cuz once you act on them, you're creating a habit.

[00:38:55] So I'm just wondering in this way, when I say, oh, I just wanna say F it, I'm just gonna eat this even though I'm not gonna feel good. I wonder if I just have to listen to the thoughts and disregard them and not act on them so that I'm not continuing to, you know, like continue this habit. Right. So, you know, with, with people who have medical conditions where, you know, the food that they're eating is going to cause them some, you know, a medically explained response, right?

[00:39:27] Um, it it's a decision point of, do I wanna do this or not? Um, and can I do this in moderation? Right. And so, um, um, for me, right, um, I'm a retired ballerina. So for me, you know, the, these were, we, you know, these are, these are big deal concepts that I, I work on. So sometimes it's like, okay, I, I can have a few and be okay.

[00:40:00] Um, and then there are other times where I'm like, no, I don't think I have the emotional wherewithal. Right? Like, I'm just, for whatever reason, I'm fatigued, I'm stressed, I'm tired, whatever the components are. Um, I don't have the ability to self regulate and moderate that, that a few for me is, is gonna satisfy the need because it's not really about what I'm eating.

[00:40:25] It's about, like you said, kind of that negative cognitive dump, right. The neurological dump. And so looking at it from that perspective of. Is this a food where you're like, I know if I have pesto with garlic sauce, like it's gonna send me over the edge and I want it anyway. And I'm willing to just deal with the pain.

[00:40:46] So you're making a very conscious choice or like, right. Like, or I know if I eat this, this is really gonna make me sick and I'm gonna choose like, um, something else. Right. Instead that I, I like equally as much. Do, do you see what I mean? Like, like, yeah, like some of it is the choice point. That's still not the necessarily what's driving the psychology.

[00:41:12] Behind it. Right. Well, that's a weird one too, cuz I've done that so many times where I, I know something is gonna make me feel like be in pain and I still choose to do it. And it's like now satisfaction, short term satisfaction for long term dissatisfaction. Right. And so, you know what, so what's that about?

[00:41:34] Right. Do you know that like, do you do that when you're only alone? Do you do it when you're out in a big group or if you go to, like, for me, it's really hard to go out to someone someone's house for dinner and they make things that I'm like, I, you know, I have celiacs, so I'm like, I know that I can't have it and then I eat it anyway.

[00:41:56] Cause I don't wanna be rude, right? Yes. Yeah. Whole time. Yeah. All the time. Right. So, so I'm working on that with my therapist, right? Like, so, so. That's all about the people pleasing you talked about earlier. So there's that, that NA that negative, like the secondary or the positive, like, what do I get from that negative behavior is, well, I don't have to be embarrassed.

[00:42:21] I don't have to call myself out and everybody has to like, oh, you know, Joe needs to have a different, like, I, I, I avoid all of that, right. By just doing something I know is gonna make me feel bad because, because physically feeling bad for me is not as difficult as emotionally feeling bad. So that's what I'm trying to get at for you.

[00:42:45] Like, okay. So why do you think you engage in the behavior when you're like, I know this is gonna make me feel bad. Right. That that's interesting. And another thing I just thought of is, um, I find a lot of people comment on like how much I eat, for example, like, oh, you're only going to eat that one thing, you know, like you were just starving and stuff like that.

[00:43:06] So I find that hard because when I was younger, um, not with like my, my immediate family, like my mom, my dad, or my brother, anything like that. But with my grandparents, uncles, and aunts, I just found that I could like never, um, be good enough for them in the sense of, for of my weight. So when I was growing up, I had gained a bit of weight and then they would comment and be like, oh, you're getting fat or you're getting big and stuff like that.

[00:43:31] So then I lost a bunch of weight and then they would say, oh, you're too skinny. Like, why'd you lose all that weight. So it was just. I can never impress you guys, you know, like, no matter what I do, you guys are just always gonna comment on my weight, even though I was happy with my weight, you know, when I had, when I found a good weight for me, it was still like, didn't feel good enough.

[00:43:51] So now when I'm around people, I sometimes feel the need to like over eat, to show, to prove to people that I'm eating enough or that like, you know what I mean? Yes. Yeah. So does your FA do you find that your family or friends still do that? They, they comment about, you said they comment about how much you're eating, but do they comment about your body type and what your body looks like?

[00:44:17] yeah, for sure. Like I find, they'll say, oh, you're so small. Or, or like, I, I don't see how you could lose like any more weight or, or things like that for sure. And I mean, me, like not everyone would be like this, but now I take it as a compliment when people say like, oh, you're so small, because like, I'm happy with my weight now, but I know that's like still, probably not the most positive thing to say to someone cuz some people don't like when you say that to them, you know?

[00:44:45] Yeah. So it could be that these are still subconscious triggers for you. And so some of it is do you feel comfortable saying, you know, they, you know, thank you. That actually isn't helpful for me to hear, like, you know, so some of it is I'm looking at your exposure expression. I can't say that. yeah. Okay. So yeah, so, so part of it is, like you said, kind of getting to a place where you're okay.

[00:45:12] Hearing it. Um, when, you know, we've talked about a, a little bit about trauma. So when we have trauma, we do, we as, as just a general rule of thumb, we do two things. We either, we put on weight because we wanna make ourself bigger. Um, it makes us feel more protected and untouchable, right. Emotionally, physically, spiritually, right.

[00:45:40] Or we go in the opposite direction and we try and get as small as we possibly can. Right. Again, it, it just, so then we're not, we don't take up space and there's a safety mechanism in that. And so like all of the stuff you're talking about with. The way that you process food, the stress you hold in your stomach and the eating, and then the, the, what we would call, you know, the, the, your family's comments.

[00:46:07] Right. And all of that stuff is really related. And so it makes sense to me, right. When you're like, you know, I kind of yoyo a little bit, or I did when I was a kid. Right. And then the comments coming in, um, especially with, especially with multi-generational families, food is love. There was a book that was written like, like long before me, like in the 1970s.

[00:46:31] And that was what the title was. It was one of the first books on, um, eating disorders and, and moving like, like into this idea of intuitive eating Roth is, is the author. Um, it's really interesting, but, but when you think about, you know, you probably have a lot of really happy family memories around food, too.

[00:46:56] You know, and dinners and, and being rewarded like, Hey, I'll take you out for ice cream or whatever it is, you know? Um, so it's really a complex problem. So for you kind of trying to, to break those pieces up a little bit where, um, food is food is food is food, right? You know that some foods make you feel good.

[00:47:18] Other foods make your body feel bad, right. Not bad food. And, um, when you self sabotage, right, what are you actually getting from it? You know, Because you're PL does that make sense? You're kind of retriggering those old tapes of oh, Shelby it's that, that should, or would've could have stuff we talked about before.

[00:47:40] Right? Does that, does that resonate? Yeah. Well, one thing that I had read too, I go on Reddit for everything. I literally will type in a question and type in Reddit at the end, because I love to hear what other people are going through just like normal day to day people. So someone said that food's really difficult one, because whereas if you think of, I mean, all addictions are hard, but I'm just saying where if you think of like alcohol and smoking all that, you technically don't need that to survive, but you need food to survive.

[00:48:07] This is their words. And so you have to live to manage it. You cannot get rid of it. So it makes it pretty tough to be able to cope with it, you know? Exactly. And so, um, Yeah. And that's my, that's my back background. My dissertation was broad spectrum meeting disorders, trauma, and PTSD. Remember, I'm a ballerina, so you can draw the dots.

[00:48:30] Yeah. Um, but yes, that, that, that's, that's absolutely the case. Right. And so, um, it's not something where you say, okay, well, I just won't eat, you know? Right. Always say there there's no luxury to it. So it really puts you in a position of, of having to do the emotional work of what am I getting from this?

[00:48:57] Right. When I, when it, when it makes me feel frustrated, it makes me feel left out. It makes me feel betray. Like my body's betraying me, you know, it makes me sad. Um, you know, when, when you're in that space, like, what do I, what am I getting from eating the food anyway, Do you see what I'm saying? Like, what am I getting from keeping myself stuck, as opposed to saying, you know, I'm gonna make a choice, I'm gonna have something in moderation.

[00:49:29] Um, and I'm willing to, you know, I'm willing to sit with the fact that that's not gonna make me feel good. Right. Yeah. I think what I'm getting out of it. And she talks about this in the book and I found this super interesting is I get rid of the uncomfortable feeling of sitting with it. You know, you know, it's like someone pictures, someone sitting beside you and being like, you should eat that you should eat that you should eat that.

[00:49:52] And they just like, won't stop telling you what to do. And you're like, okay, I'll do it then. So it's like, it's so hard to just sit with the uncomfortable feeling. But as I know, because I've been practicing, not binge eating, I started to just sit with it. And I was really, really shocked at how fast it went away and how like fast, I was able to create this new habit.

[00:50:13] I, I honestly thought it would take me months. And it took me about like three tries and I already noticed how like much easier it is. Mm. And I haven't really like bingey much since I started reading the book. So yeah. I think if I try the same method and sitting, like you said, with the reflection of like, what am I gaining out of this, then I feel like it'll help me be like, oh, well I'm not really gaining anything positive.

[00:50:38] Yes. I have to sit with the uncomfortable feeling, but it's probably worth the uncomfortable feeling I'm gonna feel physically for the next two days. Mm-hmm so two, two thoughts, right? I mean, that, that sounds like that's a really good place to start to start to rewrite the script in your head. Remember narrative therapy, we talk about stories and scripts, right?

[00:50:58] So rewriting that negative self talker, that script in your head and, um, it with, with, uh, D B T dialectical behavior therapy, they said that, you know, typically the thought is the feelings feel like they last for 10 minutes. And in reality, it's 30 seconds. Oh, really? . Yeah, but it feels like it's so long. So that always resonated for me because then I'm like, I could do anything for 30 seconds, right.

[00:51:30] Like, like okay. Um, for other people they do a replacement, so they'll say, okay, well, if I know X is gonna make me feel sick and Y doesn't I'll just have Y instead. Right. Right. So I get that satisfaction. So really identifying the feeling and, and so, so, you know, doing that through therapy of like, okay, what, what really is that feeling?

[00:52:00] When I say I'm really uncomfortable, I really want this thing. I know it's not gonna make me feel good F it, like, I don't care. I'm gonna do it anyway. I don't wanna sit with the discomfort is what you said, right? That like that's way too overwhelming. Mm-hmm right. So is it like, I feel less than I feel left out.

[00:52:24] So see if you can fill in that blank for yourself when you're in that moment of what am I feeling right now? That makes sense. What am I feeling physically and emotionally, emotionally, what am I, what am I feeling? Right. So like, cuz if you're already, you know how you're feeling physically, you don't feel great.

[00:52:42] Okay. Right. So when you're like, I'm going to eat the thing anyway, what am I emotionally feeling right now? Am I hungry? Tired, angry, sad, lonely betrayed. Anxious. Do you see what I mean? Like kind of like, what am I feeling right now? Oh, I'm feeling sad. Okay. If you have the thing, is it going to make you feel happy?

[00:53:11] Right? what do I mean? Like, what do you think? Well, yeah, for that time that I'm eating it. Yeah. Right. For the five seconds, right? Yes. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, so, okay. It's gonna make me feel happy, right? Yes. In that moment I will feel happy and then I'm going to feel what, like shit. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Ashamed. Shame.

[00:53:37] Yes. Does that resonate? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So is it that I have to go do something else to kind of fill like, um, like something else that makes me happy, for example. Yeah. So some people use distraction, um, meditation distraction, they get up and go for a walk, change, a scenery shower, wash your face, um, you know, hot tea or cold, you know, um, you know, cold water or so yes, distraction is, is what most people use.

[00:54:14] Um, journaling in that moment, if you're in a place where you can journal is helpful. Um, my favorite technique is if you're in a public place and that's happening where there's a lot of pressure, um, the lady's room is a really good excuse. You're like, Hey, Shelby, I'll be right back. I just need to run to the ladies.

[00:54:34] okay. Go in, take a few of your breaths, use your positive reset. Right? And then you can reengage chances are your friends are off to a different conversation, right? Like nobody knows what, you know, what what's going on for you, unless you tell them. Right. So when you notice those feelings coming up, um, yes, that redirection can be really helpful.

[00:55:01] So your trick is, is that two pieces identify what the emotion is, what's the emotion. And then if you do the thing, right, it, you know, we know it's gonna make you feel happy for a few seconds. So if you do the thing, is it worth the outcome? Okay. Because you're going, you know, that, that you're going to feel shame.

[00:55:25] Okay. Guilt and guilt and shame. So. That's that's that connection point. Does that make sense? Yeah. And so why does naming the emotion help so much? Right. When you're talking about, when you're talking about things like fear, anxiety, um, that, you know, the fear of Heights or the fear of dying, that kind of a phobic type of response, mm-hmm food, anything that's really subconscious it's stuff that you've trained your brain and your body to do for a really long time for a reason.

[00:56:03] Right? So it's almost like it happens where you're really unaware of the process. And so when we name the emotion, you're making it from a subconscious process where it controls you to a conscious process where you can begin to take control over it. Does that make sense? Okay. Cuz you're like acknowledging it.

[00:56:24] Yeah. Yeah. And so then the more it happens, you're like, oh, I know what that thing is. Okay. I know how that thing actually makes me feel. It doesn't actually make me feel happy. It makes me feel like garbage and then I feel ashamed and guilty and I'm in pain and you know what? It is really not worth it in this moment.

[00:56:42] And you're boom, boom, boom. You've reset. And you're off to the next thing. So the goal is not that it never happens. The goal is that when it does happen, you're able to get in there, correct it, redirect and move on very quickly. Makes sense. That neuro plasticity, you got it. Big. Cool. yes. Does that, does that make sense?

[00:57:07] Cause when we, we set ourself up for failure and that's that, that negative perfectionistic response when we're like, oh, I don't ever want this to happen. Well, that's not possible. You're human. Right. Okay. Right. Okay. So the goal for you is when it does happen, I actually have tools to address it. Okay. So we're gonna start that process by really getting you to identify what the emotion is.

[00:57:32] Okay. Okay. Does that make sense? Mm-hmm , mm-hmm yeah. It's crazy how everything is so interrelated, you know, and, um, like how a lot of these techniques can be used throughout different areas of your life. Yeah. And, and, and the thing about like these skills and techniques is when you find ones that you like, just do 'em all the time.

[00:57:54] And then when they stop working, you're like, okay, there are so many other skills, right? So you start to cherry pick the ones that work for you, you know, and it, and they're easier for you to implement. And then you start to throw over the side, the things that are like, okay, it, it works, but it doesn't, it's not a go to right.

[00:58:15] Or it's too hard to. Okay. How many would you say there are? Like how, what number of different techniques are there? There's it, there are, so there are so many, there are so many I say to clients all the time, I'm, I'm gonna give you something to try and I need you to tell me if it works. If it does, it tells me what theory to use and if it doesn't, I'm like, okay, cool.

[00:58:39] Let's scrap that. We'll try different theory. But like, just in, in the three sessions we've had, we've done about seven different therapeutic techniques, right. And theoretical orientation models. And part of it is I'm just picking and choosing what I think may work. And as they get to know you more and, and you have a better, um, idea of what techniques are really working for you like today, where you're like, okay, I did these four things and they worked great.

[00:59:07] Right. We start to tailor make ki you know what your personal skill set is gonna be. Okay. Yeah. Which is, are there, there hundreds? Sorry, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds. Oh, there are hundreds. Okay. Yeah. Hundreds and hun. Yeah. So it it's some, some people say like, oh, I really wanna learn, um, cognitive behavioral therapy and they work with somebody who's got that training only.

[00:59:31] Right. And so there's hundreds of techniques with just in that one model. Oh, okay. Yeah. So it's it's does that. Yeah. And then there's a lot of overlap too. Right. Meditation and breathing is meditation and breathing. It's just the way that, that the clinician explains it is, is determin te is, is determines kind of what model they're using.

[00:59:54] Um, yeah. So, um, but there's, you know, all there. there's a hundred different, at least a hundred different breathing techniques. So that's why I'm saying, okay. You try one. If it doesn't work, we try another one. Oh, oh, okay. Okay. So there's categories within categories. Yeah. Yeah. But it's not like you're gonna get to a place where you're like, I've done all the skills.

[01:00:15] It's like kind of like I joke and go, okay. I've I've watched all the Netflix, like I don't wanna watch it. it's, it's the same thing there there's there's so much out there. So you mentioned Brene brown once before mm-hmm um, like she's got skills and techniques where you're, you might really like some of those, right.

[01:00:33] Um, I know you've done some C B T skills BA that's that positive reframing you did in the eight months of therapy, right. Um, tho like there's skills in there that worked really well for you. So like each, each different model is gonna have things where you're like, oh, I really like that. And so you're looking for things that are gonna work for you.

[01:00:55] okay. Yeah. Cool. Thank you. Yeah. yeah, I know we, you know, we're we're, we we're at an hour. I wanna make sure that this is a, an okay. Place to stop. We didn't get to everything on your list, but I wanna make sure. Okay. Yep. I wanna make sure if this feels good to you, or if there's some things left, unfinished that we should really chat.

[01:01:18] No, I just have one funny thing to say, well, I thought it was funny. Okay. Love it. When we were on the wall, I just had my one back. I just remembered this. So I had my one backpack with like two liters of water in it. Yeah. And every time I would get nervous, I remember last session when you were like, okay, you know, you're feeling anxious, let's do the breathing technique and drink some water, you know, bring yourself back to the present.

[01:01:39] So every time I was anxious, I was drinking my water from my like Camelback bag. And so we get to like almost at the top and my partner's like, Hey, can I have some water? And I was like, I drank it all. I'm so I felt so bad. He barely got any. And I told him, my therapist said to keep drinking the water every time I was nervous and I was nervous the whole damn time, like and he was just like, well, tell her I got no water

[01:02:09] so yeah. I'm sorry. Ate no, he was or not. He was fine. I know he is very funny. He's like, well, yeah, thanks. Thanks. I know. Good. Yeah. Good run. Nothing. All right. Well, yeah. Cool. And I'm excited to hear when we talk next week too, about, you know, how this worked. Um, and I think with the food, if it, if it's not triggering, keep a log.

[01:02:39] Okay, right. When you're noticing it and writing down the, you know, the emotions, even if you just keep a li like just one word, like angry, frustrated, tired, like just even keeping a list. I think you'll be surprised at how much more there is there for you. And then it sounds like it's fairly, you have an easier time rewriting that once you know what it is.

[01:03:04] So I, I'm curious to see once you name it. Right. Is it easier for you to sit with it and sort of use those distraction techniques and, and redirect? Yeah. That, yeah. I'm interested in trying that. Yeah. Cool. Cool. And if you've got any questions, you know how to reach me. Thank you. All right. Thanks Shelby.

[01:03:23] I'll talk with you next week. Okay. See you then.