Pivotal People

Counseling on the Frontlines: How a Military Chaplain Transforms Lives

Stephanie Nelson Season 4 Episode 117

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Patrick Day shares his journey from Presbyterian pastor to military chaplain, revealing insights about mental health challenges in today's military and how faith impacts service members in unexpected ways.

• Served 30 years as a Presbyterian pastor before recommissioning in the Georgia Army National Guard at an age past typical limits
• Deployed to the Middle East with an infantry unit and served near the Gaza Strip
• Military chaplains both "perform" services for their own faith tradition and "provide" for all soldiers regardless of beliefs
• People entering military service are four times more likely to come from abusive households than civilians
• Military service offers stability and opportunities for young people seeking to change their life trajectory
• Traditional "break them down to build them up" approach doesn't work for recruits who've already experienced trauma
• Paganism is the fastest-growing faith tradition in the military today
• Many who say they have "problems with God" are actually struggling with how the church treated them
• Now works with Camp Southern Ground's Warrior PATHH program helping veterans and first responders process trauma
• As a leadership coach, helps people find fulfillment by asking uncomfortable but transformative questions

Visit PatrickDay.org to learn more about Patrick's leadership coaching services.


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Speaker 1:

I'd like to welcome Patrick Day to the Pivotal People podcast. Patrick is a friend of mine. We met years ago volunteering at a wonderful charity here in Roswell, georgia, where we live. Patrick is a pastor. He was a pastor at one of our Presbyterian churches in Roswell for 15 years. He's also a chaplain for the Georgia Army National Guard, which I found fascinating. We're going to talk about that today and he's currently a leadership coach and consultant, because you learn a whole lot about people when you've been a pastor and you've been a chaplain, and he has a wealth of insight and wisdom to help people go through the challenges they're going through. So, patrick, welcome, I'm so glad you could be here.

Speaker 2:

Morning. Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1:

I've talked a little bit about who you are, but that just scratched the surface. Could you tell everyone a little more about your background and who you are and what you're working on now?

Speaker 2:

Sure, I've been a pastor in the Presbyterian Church USA for the last 30 years and initially, when I went into ministry, I didn't picture myself working in a congregation. So I got a commission with the Navy to serve in the Navy's chaplaincy program and one of the things that the military requires of you is that before you can go on active duty you have to spend two years in full-time congregational ministry. So after seminary I moved to Chicago, planning on just being there for two years and then heading out on an aircraft carrier or working with Marines or wherever they might send me, and during those two years really fell in love with congregational ministry and realized that I had some gifts to offer there that I never thought I'd have the chance to before. In what turned out to be kind of a short-sighted move, instead of looking at going reserves or anything like that, I just resigned to my commission, figured that God was finished with one chapter, I had served five years in the Navy reserveserves and was, you know, beginning creating a whole new one. So I spent 13 years in Chicago and then in 2008 moved down to Roswell, georgia, to take a senior pastor position something else I never thought I would do and after 15 years there, really felt that I had some work left undone with the military. I really felt that I had some work left undone with the military and, with the encouragement of my wife, I decided to try to get back in, even though I was too old. So, after about 16 months and lots of adventures and hoops and hurdles, I got commissioned back into the Georgia Army National Guard in 2020.

Speaker 2:

Served with the field artillery unit for a couple of years and then transferred over to an infantry unit for the express purpose of deploying.

Speaker 2:

And so in 2024, with that infantry unit, we deployed to the Middle East to serve with the multinational force and observers. And, given the fact that I had served this church in Roswell for 15 years, instead of asking them to hold my position, I just felt like that was the end of a season and so resigned my position there and deployed for a year, served on active duty with my infantry unit, returned home at the end of January and now do a number of different things. I still serve as chaplain in the Guard. I have five more years with them. I also help manage a post-traumatic growth program at an organization called Camp Southern Ground. We work with veterans and first responders. Like you mentioned, I serve as a leadership coach and consultant, helping individuals really get unstuck and figure out what the next step is for them, and then, in working with teams, likewise helping them get unstuck and figure out better ways to communicate with one another to be more effective. So that's the Cliff Notes version.

Speaker 1:

The Cliff Notes version of a life well lived. Your whole life has been about serving people and I love that. Patrick and I got together for coffee recently and we just chatted about this and I was really curious because, I'll be honest with you, the only curious about being a chaplain in the military what exactly is that? My only frame of reference and I'm going to show my age right here was the show MASH.

Speaker 2:

Yes.

Speaker 1:

Okay, that's the only military chaplain I know, but Patrick ended up sharing some insights with me that I would really love for you to share with our audience today, because it opened my eyes to something I really didn't understand at all. So talk to us about what does it look like to be a chaplain in the military, specifically where you were in a pretty dangerous place.

Speaker 2:

Sure. First of all, father John Francis Patrick Mulcahy from the 407th is really a great image of what an army chaplain does, because, for those who do remember that show, I mean on the one hand he led worship services, but he was the chaplain for everybody. He cared for everyone, and that's really what our job is. There are two key words in the life of a military chaplain, and it's perform and provide. And so, as a Protestant chaplain, I perform Protestant worship services, protestant Bible studies. But then the other key word is really critical as well, and that is to provide. And so I serve as the chaplain for every soldier in my battalion, regardless of their faith tradition or if they have no faith tradition. And so the provide part comes in making sure that soldiers of other faiths have the opportunity and the resources that they need to worship in the way that they need. And so probably the most simple example is, if I had a Jewish soldier, that I would work with the leadership to try to adjust the work schedule for them on a high holy day such as Yom Kippur. It's also working with leadership to make sure that any dietary restrictions our soldiers might have, that those can be accommodated. So I don't perform services for Catholic soldiers, jewish soldiers, muslim soldiers, pagan soldiers, but I provide and protect their rights to be able to worship in the way that they need. So programmatically that's really the biggest piece, but really on the day-to-day it is caring for the people that have raised their hand to protect the freedoms of the people in this country and making sure that they are tended to.

Speaker 2:

The way our military looks is different than a lot of people might imagine, and I think it's hard for people to get an accurate illustration of what that looks like, because less than 1% of the people in the United States serve in the military, and so that has really two effects. Right, I mean number one. Obviously we have a smaller percentage of people serving, but we also have families who serve, and so generationally people will sign up to serve families who serve, and so generationally people will sign up to serve. So that makes it even a little more insular in the fact that sort of the secondary effect of fewer people serving is then fewer people know someone who serves, and so I think it is hard for people to get an accurate representation of what that looks like, and so in doing some digging, I found a study that the American Medical Association did 11 years ago now, in 2014, but I imagine the data is still very accurate and they set out to study who was entering the military in the 40 years since the end of the draft now 50.

Speaker 2:

And what they found was that people who are entering the military are four times as likely to have grown up in an abusive household as those who are not serving, and so for many, you know, they may at some point be taken in by the adventure and the patriotism of some of the ads that they see on television or online, but for many of our soldiers and sailors, and those of all branches, it's military service is really seen as a way out of a life from which they may feel trapped. On our deployment, we had soldiers who everything they owned literally everything they owned was in the two duffel bags that they brought with them on deployment. They were living in hotels prior to going on active duty, and so this is really an opportunity for them to try to shift the trajectory in a different way for their life and to try to create more opportunities for themselves, and for me, it's just. It's a wonderful honor to be able to serve them and to serve with them.

Speaker 1:

So you did active deployment. You said, was it outside the Gaza Strip? Was that?

Speaker 2:

So, yeah, so I always say this anytime I talk about our mission. Ours was very public Everything that you and I are talking about now you could find online through the MFO's website. And again, we were with multinational force and observers, and so our whole mission stemmed from the Camp David Accords with the leadership of President Jimmy Carter, and so this mission has been going on since 1982. And our mission was simply to observe with partner nations Egypt and Israel and to make sure that they were adhering to treaties that they signed back in the 70s. And so we had two camps one south in the city of Sharm el-Sheikh, and then one north, and then five remote sites in between, and I spent the majority of my time at the north campsite and, yes, that was about 12 miles west of the Gaza Strip.

Speaker 1:

So when I asked Patrick so what does a week in the life of a military chaplain who's deployed look like you said counseling, counseling, counseling. So you have so many and what are we talking for? Average age.

Speaker 2:

Probably 18 to 27.

Speaker 1:

Okay. You have young adult kids. So you have some experience here. But what are you observing, or what is the military observing in terms of mental health among enlisted soldiers?

Speaker 2:

So my observation was that it really ties into the data that I mentioned. And you have a lot of people that are coming into the military and they don't have a really solid foundation underneath them, and they don't have a really solid foundation underneath them. And so then you layer on top of that the stress of military life, and then, on top of that, the stress of deployment life, and then, on top of that, the stress for some of lot, and I see our younger people in the military as actually being resilient, but just not always in the most constructive way. And so some are still at a point where they are simply, if you look on, like Maslow's hierarchy of need, they are more in survival and protection of themselves. Hierarchy of need they are more in survival and protection of themselves. And so what you'll often see then is when they feel that threatened in any way, then they will remove themselves from that situation, which you know, hey, in a heated argument at Starbucks, that sounds like a perfectly healthy thing to do, right, but in a military setting where you have leadership who is telling you where to be and what to do, it comes across as insubordination. And so I had wonderful leadership that I was working with it was, and they really cared about the soldiers as human beings, not just as as numbers and name tapes.

Speaker 2:

But we still had a lot of conversations about the shift in the way that I think we need to look at our younger soldiers, because the stereotypical military idea is you got to tear people down to then build them back up, and that's what you see in all the full metal jackets and all those movies that we grew up watching. But what we're seeing now is people have been torn down since the day they were born, and so that's no longer necessary, in my opinion, for a lot of people. And so this idea that hey, you're a fat loser, you can't even do 10 push-ups, that's out the window, because they've been torn down, they've been insulted, they've been neglected, and so for me, it's not about changing the standard at all, but it is about coming at that standard a different way and to be able to stand over someone and say you are not a fat loser, you can do 10 pushups and we're not leaving here until you do so. The standard's the same, it's just the way we're attacking. The standard is different based on the people that we're dealing with, different based on the people that we're dealing with, and so a lot of my counseling was helping them navigate daily life.

Speaker 2:

For a number of our soldiers, this was the first time they were making any steady money, and so to help them just try to manage that money and I'm no financial expert, but it's just simply don't spend everything you make. I mean, we're not talking about investments or anything like that and so a lot of it was daily life skills and then also just helping them manage relationships back home. One of the benefits and the challenges was, you know, we have such a thing as the internet, and so people were able to stay connected more to family back home, which sometimes was a good thing. Sometimes it was a real challenge because the challenges people are facing back home, which sometimes was a good thing. Sometimes it was a real challenge because the challenges people are facing back home, you know they're still bringing to you seven time zones away and there's really nothing you can do about it, but you're still wanting to be supportive and wanting to help, and so trying to help them navigate those relationships as well was a lot of the time.

Speaker 1:

Thank you for elaborating on that. I found that so insightful and you continue to do this work. I'd love for you to share what you're doing at Camp Southern Ground with the Warrior Program.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely so. Camp Southern Ground it's an amazing organization. It was started by the country singer, zach Brown. He grew up going to summer camp, always wanted to have a summer camp, so he opened one and of course summer is only one season, so the organization runs children's camps over the summer and then the other nine months we run programs, some just for veterans and then some for veterans and first responders, and so the program I'm directly connected with is one called Warrior P, which that path acronym there are two H's.

Speaker 2:

It stands for Progressive and Alternative Training for Helping Heroes, and we are very particular about that T. It's a training program. It's not a treatment program. It's a seven-day intensive training program on site with a total of 90 days. It's a total 90-day program, so 83 days of follow up, and really we present tools to our veterans and first responders and it's a lot of engaging the trauma that they've already experienced, whether it's in their service or even prior to, based again on the statistics that we talked about.

Speaker 2:

And we spent seven days with them really doing a deep dive into those tools and research has found that if they continue to use those tools they can not just cope with their trauma but can really thrive, not even just in spite of it, but as a result of it, that some of the horrible things that they've been through have actually then equipped them to navigate the life that's in front of them, and it's a really transformational program. We are one of 11 sites that host this program across the country, so if somebody's listening because I know you have a broader reach if somebody's listening from another part of the country, they might get sorted into another site that hosts this program. But the Warrior Path program is really transformational and, again, it's just a wonderful opportunity for me. I'm so grateful to be able to work with people that closely and help them navigate those changes in their lives.

Speaker 1:

And they are very fortunate that they got you to be a leader in their program. How does someone get into the program?

Speaker 2:

So someone can simply go to CampSouthernGroundorg and there's a tab there for our veterans programs and there they can request more information and there's an opportunity. There's an application that then is followed up by an interview and again, depending on the needs, the dates, we work with the other sites around the country that are hosting the program. So if we don't have an opening immediately and somebody really feels a need to get in quickly, we will work with other sites to try to get them into a program as quickly as we can. But all the information is there on the Camp Southern Ground website and they can fill out an application. It's followed up by an interview and it's all funded from outside sources. So there's no cost to the veteran, the first responder, the travel is taken care of to get them to the site. So I think about the only thing is if they're checking bags on an airplane they may need, depending on the setup, they may need to check a bag. But yeah, it's a wonderful program and all the information is there on the website.

Speaker 1:

That's great. That's great. And how much fun for kids to go to the Zach Brown summer camp during the summer. Wow, does he come and play? I would think he might.

Speaker 2:

I don't know and I would hesitate to speculate.

Speaker 1:

We're not advertising Zach Brown's summer camp. I don't think it needs to be advertised, but I think he should get a little credit for being so generous. Oh absolutely, isn't that wonderful?

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. And while I can't speak for his on-ground presence, I mean mean I can say he is heavily invested in everything that happens at that camp. So, regardless of the program, so his hands touch everything, whether he is physically present or not, and it's it's. You're absolutely right, it's a wonderful gift.

Speaker 1:

That's wonderful. I want to backtrack just a little bit because when we met and we discussed, the other really interesting thing to me was your insight on the various faith traditions within the young military people you saw. So you saw all of these different denominations and you shared with me what the fastest growing denomination was, if we can call it a denomination. Do you mind sharing that with everyone?

Speaker 2:

Yeah. So there, I mean, we would call it a faith tradition. And so, yeah, the fastest growing faith tradition in the military right now is paganism. Paganism, yes, and that follows many expressions. It is, when you consider paganism as a religion, as many expressions it is. When you consider paganism as a religion, it is as varied as considering Christianity. I mean, there are many expressions of that. So there's Norse paganism, which is quickly on the rise in the military as one expression of it.

Speaker 2:

And that's the thing that's interesting for a chaplain is, again, we are never asked to compromise our own convictions, but we are simply there to protect their First Amendment right and to make sure that they have the opportunity to worship in the way that they need. And for me personally, I take that particular call very seriously and I think my job as a Christian chaplain is to be as accommodating and as hospitable as I possibly can, because one of the things that I found and I think it's true in the civilian world as well is when people tell me that if someone grew up in a Christian tradition and they tell me that they have a problem with God. I've heard some people who have expressed some very real concerns with the Almighty. I mean even our Bible study overseas. We ended up calling it Bible Fight Club because one of the nights it wasn't like with the movie don't talk about Fight Club but it was one of the first nights I asked people if you could say anything to Jesus, what would you say? And one person said something you would expect sort of you know the why do people suffer, why do bad things happen to good people and whatnot.

Speaker 2:

And I looked at one of my soldiers and I asked him directly. I said how about you? What would you say to Jesus? Put him up. I said, excuse me. He said put them up, that's what I would say. He goes because I got some problems with him. And so I said, all right, and so we called it Bible Fight Club and it was bring it all, bring all your concerns, all your questions, all your frustrations, let's go, let's get them out, let's talk about them, let's wrestle with them, let's fight with them. And so to me, that was what I was called to do was to create a place where we could really hash that out. The other piece that I've seen is when I really peel back the layers and have a conversation with somebody who tells me that they have a problem with God. What I find, more often than not, is that it's not God they have a problem with it's God's representation on this earth, and it's the church.

Speaker 2:

And my brother came out as gay and we were kicked out of the church. My parents got divorced and no one would talk to us. My sister got pregnant before she was marriedconnection of they're upset with the church and so they ascribe that anger and that frustration to the Christian. God, then, is not to beat them over the head and try to drag them back in, but to provide a place of hospitality and a place where, if they have questions, that they can wrestle with those.

Speaker 2:

And I had a soldier who aligned with another faith tradition, with the pagan tradition, but occasionally he would come to our Bible studies and he wouldn't come inside, he would sit a chair by the door. And after the first night I invited him, I told him look, I know where you're coming from and if you, you know, you are more than welcome to come inside. And and he turned me down, but he would come and he would sit by the door. So I would just make sure that the door was open and that you know that he could hear what we were talking about. Because to me, even if somebody stays in their own tradition, if I can at least sort of move the needle or shift their perspective on how they view followers of Christ, then I feel like I'm doing my job and I think that's the best way to handle it, especially for those for whom they are more upset with the Christian church than they are with the Christian God, even if they can't make that distinction themselves.

Speaker 1:

Well, thank you so much for sharing that, because I'll tell you what if all of us Christians could take that approach, that would change everything.

Speaker 1:

That is so beautiful. Thank you, and now you can all see why I wanted them to come on the podcast. We were just getting together for coffee. I'm like, oh gosh, I wish the whole world could hear this conversation. We need to wrap up. I've kept you longer than I said I would, but I'd love for you to share what you are doing as a leadership coach and how people can find you if they'd like some individual coaching.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely so. The easiest way is PatrickDayorg. That's where they can find me and, as I said, at the top of our time, really what I find is people who come to me are people who are feeling stuck in some sense, and it might be professionally, looking for a new goal. It might be personally, and I think sometimes people are wary of working with a coach because they think it might lead to some drastic change in their life, like going from you know big, sound accounting firm to now a driftwood sculptor or something like that. And a lot of times it's not. It's just a matter of helping them figure out what, even in their current role, professionally and personally, is going to be more fulfilling for them and how they can find more fulfillment in what they're already doing. And a lot of times it takes someone walking alongside them and asking them some difficult and potentially at times uncomfortable questions. But those uncomfortable questions are the ones that can really lead to the breakthrough.

Speaker 2:

And I think one of the things that I do bring to the table is I am perfectly uncomfortable with silence.

Speaker 2:

So if I'm talking with someone and I ask them a question and they say, wow, that's really deep, I have to think about that I'll say, okay, we'll just let them think. And so it can really be transformational work if people are willing to put in the work and to do some deep thinking. So again, and for me it's just an honor to walk alongside people as they try to figure out what their next move is going to be in their life again, whether it is professional or personal, and because for me, the way I look at it is, you really don't have a personal life, you don't have a professional life, you don't have a physical life or an emotional life or a spiritual life. You have one life and all of these things are components of it.

Speaker 2:

And I think sometimes even talking about work-life balance I think is kind of a misnomer, because that assumes that your work is not part of your life. But it's not. You have work on one side and then you have a life. It is all part of your life. And so how can we navigate all pieces of that so you can have the most fulfilling life you know and to have life and have it abundantly?

Speaker 1:

as someone much smarter than I said, so, yeah, he said a few good things, you know, and I am a big believer. I wouldn't have said this five years ago, but I am a big believer in everyone getting a coach. I got a coach for something a few years ago simply because I wanted to get to know the coach. He was my favorite author, bob Goff, and he had a coaching program and I thought you know what? I'm going to fake it. I'm going to act like I really have some big project I want to do, but I didn't. I was just retired and I was perfectly fine, but he had a coaching program And's so wise and his books I love is. I've read all his books and I just thought, wow, to get an opportunity to get to know him, and what I found was being a coach is different than a therapist, and a coach can stand outside of us and see things that we don't see and challenge you, and I'll tell you, it really made a difference for me to have someone say here's the list of tasks that I see, the steps you need to take to get to wherever, and we're going to have a call in two weeks and I'd like you to have those done. Being accountable to someone really helped me and I'm so thankful I had a coach because he insisted I start a podcast, which I thought was completely unnecessary and I had no interest in doing that, and I am so thankful because over the past three years it is the most interesting, wonderful thing.

Speaker 1:

I think you're the 120th person I've interviewed. I've gotten to know people like Patrick 120 of them, oh my goodness. People who write books and counselors and what I just learned about military chaplains. So I don't think any of that would have happened for me had a coach not come along. That's only my example. A coach can identify for people individually what their specific opportunities might be, but I never would have seen that myself. And that's the point I want to make. We think we don't need a coach, we'll just read a book.

Speaker 1:

But I really can say it is worth getting in touch with Patrick. You've already got to know him. You already know you want to be his friend. You already know he's accepting and forgiving and tolerant and he does not have his own agenda. He is all about, I think, doing a really good representation of Jesus and might be able to help you in your life. So it's patrickdayorg. I will have that in the show notes. I just want to thank you so much for what you've done just for our listeners today sharing this. Thank you for what you have done for all of the people in your life who you've served, and thank you for your service to our military. What a beautiful way you are serving so thank you so much. Thank you You're are serving.

Speaker 2:

So thank you so much. Thank you, you're very kind. I appreciate the time today.

Speaker 1:

And I'm looking forward to reading your book when you finally write it Very good, very good, thank you. Thank you.

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