Connecting Neuroscience & Faith for a Happier Life

Listen to a fascinating conversation with neurosurgeon Dr. Lee Warren about how the art of "Self-Brain Surgery" can change your life for the better. Do you want to have more peace, contentment and happiness? How about less ruminating and worrying? If so, Dr. Warren's teachings can help you.

We explore how the mind directs the brain, why most automatic thoughts are untrue, and how to use a “thought biopsy” to stop rumination, lower cortisol, and build realistic hope that holds up under grief and stress. Practical tools turn faith and neuroscience into daily habits that steady sleep, speech, and relationships.

• mind versus brain distinction and why it matters
• fMRI evidence of thoughts changing physiology
• neuroplasticity creating worry racetracks
• thought biopsy and replacement with realistic truths
• one-thought-at-a-time focus and gratitude anchors
• chronic stress, cortisol, and long-term health risk
• hope and meaning amid sorrow without toxic positivity
• shifting from patient to doctor of your own mind
• practical steps to feel calmer and act wiser

Get the book “The Life-Changing Art of Self-Brain Surgery” and “Hope Is The First Dose.” Find Dr. Warren at drleewarren.com and follow @DrLeeWarren on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, and YouTube

Save 70%! Order Stephanie's book Imagine More: Do What You Love, Discover Your Potential 

Learn more at StephanieNelson.com
Follow us on Instagram  @stephanie_nelson_cm
Follow us on Facebook at CouponMom

Transcript

Mind Versus Brain Explained

SPEAKER_01 0:50

I would like to welcome Dr. Lee Warren to the Pivotal People Podcast. And I'll tell you, I'm really excited about this. Usually our guests come to us through PR agencies. So, you know, we have wonderful guests who are authors and they have PR agencies and they have new books. Dr. Warren is here today because I am a huge fan of his. And I rarely ask people to come on the podcast, but I've heard his podcast and I've read his books. And I thought, oh my gosh, it would be so great if he would come on the podcast. He's what you call a good get. So I emailed him and he's very kind and he said, yes, so here he is. Let me tell you about him. He is a practicing neurosurgeon. Okay, did you hear that? That means he actually does brain surgery. He's an award-winning author. He's written four books. He's an Iraq war veteran outside of the operating room. His writing and teaching serve as prescriptions for connecting neuroscience to faith for radical life transformation. He teaches what he calls the art and science of human flourishing, flourishing on the Dr. Lee Warren podcast, which I told you is a go-to podcast for me. It's heard weekly in 150 countries around the world. He has a best-selling newsletter called the Self-Brain Surgery Newsletter. His books are award-winning books. And today we're talking about his brand new book called The Life-Ching Art of Self-Brain Surgery, Connecting Neuroscience and Faith to Radically Transform Your Life. He talks about kind of if you look at what does this mean, really, it's what if your thoughts could literally heal your brain? Today, when Dr. Warren talks about this, he's going to explain how self-brain surgery can help us overcome anxiety, grief, and limiting beliefs. And we'll talk about how faith and science meet to rewire our thoughts, restore our peace, and reshape our futures. That's a big prescription, Dr. Warren. But I want to thank you for being here. And I just am looking forward to really getting to explaining what your metaphor of self-brain surgery is. So quickly, before we get into the details of that, for people who may not be familiar with basic neuroscience, could you explain what you mean when you talk about the mind and the brain? I always thought they were the same thing, but in your books, you explained they're clearly different. Could you tell us a little about that?

Grief, fMRI, And A Revelation

SPEAKER_00 3:24

Absolutely. And thank you so much for that kind introduction, Stephanie, and for having me on your show today. I really appreciate it. Great honor to be with you. You know, as a neurosurgeon, I grew up in a kind of a traditional neuroscience educational paradigm. And as you just said, most people think that the brain generates what we think of as our mind. And that's because neuroscience has taught that forever, that that brain activity is you, that everything about you and your personality and your memory and your and everything about your life is generated by your brain. But if you if you're a Christian, then you already believe that something about you lives after you die, that there will be a you and you know who you are and you know who other people are after you die. And so in the resurrection and the in the eternity, if you believe that, then you already, you already sort of believe that some part of you is not just your brain, because your brain's going to be buried and maybe cremated or maybe blown up or burned up in a house fire or something. Your brain won't be with you in eternity, but you will still be with you. And so Christians have always had this sort of dichotomy of what part of me lives after I die if it's not my brain? And most of us just haven't ever thought about that. But as a neurosurgeon, so I'm I'm raised up in this traditional neuroscience education that teaches that brain activity generates what we think of as mental activity. But what's interesting is the Bible's been saying kind of weird things. If you look at scripture when it talks about how humans flourish, all over the Bible there are these statements that reflect that our mental lives affect our physical lives, like out of a man's heart, the mouth speaks. Like, don't be conformed to the world, be transformed by the renewing of your mind, take your thoughts captive, things like that. And so you have all these verses in the Bible that seem to point out that we need to think, and then thinking changes how our lives play out. And then in the 21st century, where it really got interesting and where it changed my life was so I'm a brain surgeon, right? So I go to the operating room, I cut people open, I remove brain tumors, I try to do things intentionally to change the structure of people's brains for the purpose of trying to save their lives or making them healthier, feel better, that kind of stuff. Well, we lost a son in 2013. And so when Mitch died, obviously Lisa and I and our family were devastated and suffering under that. And that raised a big typical kind of human suffering questions that we all have, like where's God in this and why would God allow this and all these things. And so you start having doubts and start worrying and fearing and all those things that happened. And as it happened, we at the time my wife ran our neurosurgery practice, and we uh our office was on the third floor of an MRI research building at Auburn University in Alabama. So on the third floor of this building is where our office was. On the first floor was this world-class fancy MRI scanner that allows for something called functional brain imaging. So normal imaging is where you break your arm, we take an x-ray, we take a picture of the bone, and we see what the thing looks like when it's broken, right? So normal x-ray is a picture of the thing, but functional imaging is taking a picture of what the thing is doing. So in the in the terms of brain imaging, we can actually put you in this fancy scanner and we can see what your brain is doing when you're thinking certain things. So if you we put people in the we we went back to work basically after about a month after Mitch died, and we had a meeting down in the MRI scanner. And so we were in the midst of all this grief and all this loss, and and we went down to watch this research happening, which was really groundbreaking at the time, where they put people in the scanner and they would say, Okay, Stephanie, think about the best moment of your whole life. And you would think about when your child was born or when your husband proposed, or whatever that best moment is for you. And we could see the person thinking about something and then their brain responding by increasing neurotransmitters and increasing blood flow to certain areas, and their heart rate would go down and their and their respiratory rate would go down. So we could see this chain of events where they thought of something, their brain did something, and their body did something in response. And then we'd say, okay, stop, stop thinking about that good thing. Now think about the worst thing that's ever happened to you. And in real time, the person would decide to think something different, and different parts of their brain would come online that are related to fear or anxiety or desperation or loss and pain. And then their physiology would change, their heart rate would go up, their respiratory rate would go up, and they're basically their body would respond to what their brain did in response to what they thought about. And as we were watching that happen, my wife, who's brilliant, said, That's Philippians 4. And I said, What are you talking about? And she said, The Bible says if you don't, if you want to not be anxious, think about better stuff. And that's what Philippians 4 says. Don't be anxious for anything, but in everything with prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. And the peace of God will that surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds and all this stuff. And it came flooding in that basically that's a prescription that says, Hey, someday you're going to figure out that what you think about in your mind changes the way your brain works. It's not the other way around. Your brain doesn't make you think certain things unless you let it. Your mind can direct your brain. And so I recognized that day, and just God kind of gave me this insight that said, Hey, the path forward for you out of this pit of despair that you're in after losing your son is to learn how to think about suffering differently. Because that'll change how your brain is processing it differently, and that'll change how your body can recover. And I had shingles and I lost, I broke a molar from grinding my teeth and all that stuff in the weeks after we lost Mitch. And my body was failing in response to all that suffering. And God just gave us this insight in real time that when I go do real, I'll put that in quotes if the person's watching on the video, I'm using air quotes. When I do real surgery in the operating room, what am I doing? I'm doing intentional structural changes in my patient's brain for the purpose of saving their life or making them healthier and feel better, right? And when you decide to change your thought from one thing to another, you're intentionally making structural changes in your brain for the purpose of saving your life or improving your health or making yourself feel better or be happier, right? So it's it's not the word you used earlier, this metaphor, self-brain surgery, it's not a metaphor. It's the mechanism of how you can direct what your brain does by choosing to do different things with your mind. And so now we have good evidence from neuroscience that mental activity is not in fact generated by brain activity, that it's the other way around. Mental activity generates brain activity. And so what the Bible's been saying all along is that the part of you that lives forever is in charge of the part of you that's in between your ears. And if you can learn how to make that switch from some sort of patient to doctor switch and take charge of that process, then you can direct those processes for your own good. But that's what self-brain surgery is.

SPEAKER_01 10:11

So I'm sitting here just biting my tongue because I want you to hear his wise words and not my talking, but I am as you spoke. Okay, so a couple of things. When you talked about the brain and the mind and being able to make changes, that functional MRI just was eye-opening to me. Absolutely. So when you one of the things you said in your book was that the brain cannot distinguish between imagined and actual experiences. So when I'm worrying about something that hasn't even happened, I am causing the same physical damage as if that thing really happened.

SPEAKER_00 10:49

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 10:50

And you talk about, okay, so let's get into the weeds on this neuroplasticity. I envision it as, you know, kind of a racetrack. And from my own experience, I am great at ruminating. Oh gosh. You say, Oh, I have a problem. I'm gonna think through it. And that thinking through it actually deepens that negative thinking groove. That's what you talk about. And you talk about how you your brain can only think about one thought at a time. Could you talk about that replacement idea to get us off that racetrack and onto a different track and what happens to your brain?

Neuroplasticity And The Rumination Loop

SPEAKER_00 11:25

Yeah, I think the the most important piece to begin that conversation is to understand the reality of the research, it is very clear now. About 80% of the thoughts that pop into your head every day, the things you hear, they're usually in your own voice. So you think they're genuine thoughts. About 80% of them are untrue. And most of those are negative and biased. And so that means that most of us think the same thoughts over and over every day for the most part. And most of the things that we think are untrue. And so if you can understand that most of what you hear in your head turns out not to be helpful to you or sometimes directly harmful to you if you believe it and react to it, then you can start to say, wait, if I could just develop some sort of process for deciding whether I'm going to listen to a thought before I react to it, then that might help me flourish in my life a little bit better. So first thing is just to understand, and we call it the third commandment of self-brain surgery, not all my thoughts are true. And then most of the things that you feel automatically are not pointing towards something real that's happening. Most of the things that you feel are being triggered by chemical events in your brain as your brain tries to make sense of the surroundings that you're in and try to make sure there's no threats to you or try to remind you of previous times when something similar to what's happening now might have been harmful to you in some way. And so you have this sort of guard dog functionality of your hippocampus and amygdala in your brain that they sort of are constantly trying to find some sort of threat out there that you can be saved by not reacting to or running away from, right? And so those are two kind of underpinning ideas. And the question is, how can the brain tell if something's real or not? And what we've learned from neuroscience is your brain doesn't care. All your brain is doing is listening for your mental instruction and deciding how to respond based on your command. Or if you don't give it a command, it's going to repeat a previous time when you've reacted a certain way. And so that racetrack that you're talking about, what that is, is synaptic or we call them synapses, these connections between neurons and networks of neurons in your brain. Synaptic connections get made in response to previous events. So that's what neuroplasticity is. It's when something happens in your brain, you connect it in a way that it's easier for that thing to happen again in the future. And so that automates something for you. And so the job of the brain primarily is to automate things that you do more than once so you don't have to think about them as much. So you can spend your mental energy thinking about other things. And the best way to think about that is the if you move to a new house right next week, then the first time you drive from your new house to your work or to your kids' school or wherever you drive every day, you have to think about that drive. You have to think about every turn and every stoplight and every lane change and every speed limit and every school zone because you're not familiar with it, right? But after you've made the drive two or three times, what happens? Before you know it, you get to the destination and you've been on the phone, you've been listening to music, you've been listening to Stephanie's podcast, you haven't thought about the drive at all, right? You just got there. Well, how did you get there? You didn't get teleported there, you drove there, but you've automated all that information and your brain doesn't make you think about it as much anymore because it's got the command from you, okay, I need to slow down here, I need to turn right here, need to watch out for kids right here. There's a school zone here, there's a speed trap there. So you automate that stuff. So what happens then when you when you ruminate or worry is that you're telling your brain that there's a danger when there may not actually be a danger. And so what you're doing then is you're telling your brain, I want you to stay in that stressed-out, hypervigilant state. I want you to kick your cortisol and adrenaline levels up. I want you to be afraid of something right now. And your brain will say, okay, well, if I'm supposed to do that when there's not actually a threat, then that means that this person is commanding me to automate that stressed out behavior. And then before you know it, you're spending all your time on that racetrack of rumination and worry. And you haven't stopped to think, wait, 80% of my thoughts are negative and generally untrue. So maybe if I investigated that question first, I would never have to get on the racetrack in the first place. And so what we teach then is this idea of biopsying your thoughts. You know, if I if I'm your brain surgeon and you come into my office and you've got a headache, if if the first thing I say is, well, let's go to the operating room and let me cut your head open and look around and see if I can find a problem in there, what would you say?

SPEAKER_01 15:45

You'd say, That's a little extreme.

SPEAKER_00 15:47

Right. Wouldn't you want to get an X-ray or a CAT scan or something, Doc? Like, are you we sure you would just want to go rush off and do surgery? But that's what we do with our thoughts all the time. You get a text message and it's from your husband or your cousin or your co-worker and it sounds offensive to you. And the first thing you say is, Oh, well, that big jerk. And you fire back a angry text and you haven't really thought about it. And then you read it again and you go, Oh, wait, that's not what he meant. Like, why did I respond that way? Right now I got to send an apology. I'm so sorry I react overreacted to that. Or they write back and they say, What are you talking about? I didn't mean that at all. You misread my or I made a typo. That's not what I meant, right? And you've reacted to a thought that wasn't true. And now you're spending time and energy trying to undo something in the real world that happened because your thoughts were disordered. Right. And so the process then of learning how to live with this mind-brain interface is to put the mind in charge where it rightfully belongs, instead of letting your automated thoughts, which are mostly negative, and your automated feelings, which are mostly untrue, chemical signals trying to remind you of something that may potentially be a threat, but might not actually be real. So instead of believing them and reacting to them, you put your mind in charge and you build a little space in between there. And it after practice, because everything gets automated, it becomes almost imperceptible to you that you stop having to think about the fact that you're biopsy your thoughts and deciding what they are and whether they need to be transplanted or not with something true. And you just start doing it automatically. That's what 2 Corinthians 10 5 in the Bible is about, by the way, this take every thought captive idea. Like learn how to discern whether your thoughts are true or not before you respond to them. And if you can develop this discipline, I promise you, listener, your life will become so much more peaceful because you'll only ever spend emotional energy thinking down pathways of thought regarding things that are true and real. And so then if you can do that, you've eliminated about 80% of the things that you worry about. And when we get down to the real question that you asked, how is it true that the brain can't determine or distinguish between things that are actually happening and things that you're just imagining? That's really important to understand because your body has a built-in threat response system that God gave you, your sympathetic nervous system, and it's designed to keep you out of trouble. So if the if you hear a sound and there might be a bear in the woods, you run away. So you don't want to get eaten by the bear, right? But if every time you hear a sound in the in the woods, you run away, pretty soon you'll figure out that most of the time there wasn't really a bear. And so then you spent lots of time creating imaginary bears in your mind and spending time dealing with them in your life, and that was all unnecessary and harmful to you. And so if you can just learn then to say, my body responds the same way with the same set of chemical triggers and physiological events when I'm worrying about something that may or may not ever happen as it does when something's really happening. If you understand that, then you'll start to say, wait, I need a process by which I can take this system and put it under the command of a more reasonable part of my brain, which is your frontal lobe, where you can say, wait, instead of reacting, I'm gonna spend a second thinking first, and then you can flip that switch to where if there's really a bear, you're gonna run away appropriately. If there's really not, you quit worrying about it.

SPEAKER_01 19:05

One of the things you talked about, which right here is that whole idea that our brain can only think one thought at a time, or a mind can only think one thought at a time. So when you're when you're like, okay, there's no bear, so stop worrying about it. You know, Dr. Warren, what I do, you know, based on what you're talking about, is I try to replace that thought. So you talk about gratitude. And I say, you know, have a wonderful thought on the shelf. Just have it at the ready. What is your wonderful thought? And when you when I catch myself doing that ruminating or worrying and trying to stop it in the tracks, for me, it helps to replace that thought with my super happy thought. Everyone who knows me knows I just said that my first granddaughter, all I have to do is think about her face.

SPEAKER_00 19:50

Congratulations.

SPEAKER_01 19:50

Okay, you also talk about, let's go back to that, how we react to our thoughts. This is so eye-opening for me that most of our thoughts are untrue and how many thoughts we have and how we're thinking the same thoughts every day. But when you talk about replacing that thought with a positive, you also talk about how dangerous it is when we react so quickly to our thoughts because we can't take back the words we say and they can cause such damage to our relationships. One of the reasons I'm so excited about everybody reading your book, everyone in my family is getting this book. I've said to my husband, I know I've done all, you know, I think 130 podcasts. This is the book you have to read. We have to be on the same page because you know, there is no reason why we can't have better relationships, be happier. And I'm 62 years old. What I heard in your book was this unnecessary spike in cortisol that we inflict upon ourselves with these untrue negative thoughts actually damages us physically. It could shorten our lifespan. You're a doctor. Could you talk about that a little bit? There's a reason why if this is not just about being happier, this is about being around for my granddaughter longer.

One Thought At A Time Replacement

SPEAKER_00 21:08

That's right. Chronic stress takes years off your life, and we know that. And what's interesting is most chronic stress these days for Americans, at least for people in the modern world, is unnecessary because it's it's stress in response to something that's not actually happening. Let me be very careful to say this. Lots of people listening to this may have actually may have actually something bad happening in their life. You may be have that diagnosis, you're you're losing a spouse, you just buried a child. I mean, I've I've been there. And you may be dealing with PTSD or something, something real. And I'm not saying that you don't need to grieve and mourn and and have sorrow and all those things. You must do those things to be a fully formed person. You must learn how to heal and and grow and process sorrow and have appropriate emotions. So so don't hear me saying, don't have any emotions, just be happy. That's not what I'm saying at all. What I'm saying is that to have an abundant life in the midst of a life that has a lot of difficulty, because all of us have troubles. How to have an abundant and meaningful life anyway is to learn how to properly contextualize these things that we experience and find moments of joy within those moments of sorrow because they're always there. And I'll give you an example of that. The day we buried our son was the day that our first granddaughter Scarlett was born. And so our daughter couldn't be at her brother's funeral because she was in San Antonio. We were in Alabama, we were supposed to be there with her, having for her to have the baby, but instead we were burying Mitch. And Katie and her husband were there alone in San Antonio, and the rest of the family was in Alabama. And that was very stressful, obviously, for all of us and and and devastating for all of us for different reasons. But what was fascinating was while we're having the funeral, we're getting text messages that the baby's coming. And while we're, you know, having the potluck meal afterwards, we're getting messages with the first pictures of our granddaughter. So we have the sorrow kind of mixed in with all this joy. And it was this strange sort of thing where it was so dark and so heavy and so overwhelming, but at the same time, there was a little bit of light mixed in with it, which is where you start to know that there's still hope out there somewhere. And so all we're saying with this is if you can remind yourself in the midst of hardship that your brain's going to hyperfocus on all the things that hurt, and it's going to narrow your filter down so much that it begins to be the only thing that you can see. This the sorrow, this suffering that you're going through, this difficulty, this stressful time, whatever it is, begins to be the only thing you can see. If you can just remind yourself, wait a minute, I know that there's still a sunrise, there's still a sunset, there's still some people out there in the world who love me, that there's still going to be tomorrow, that there's still going to be some light, even if you can't see it right now. If you can just replace that negative thought that says, this is all there is ever going to be again. This is the only thing I'm ever going to feel again. Because I promise you, if you're burying your child, you have that thought. I'm never going to feel better than I feel right now. This is never going to get better. But I'm also here to tell you, 12 years on the other side of that, you will, you will find again that there's possible, possibility and there's hope again and all those things. And I know that because not only have I walked through it myself, but as a doctor, I've walked with thousands of families through those times. And I know that the only way to survive them is at some point be able to widen that filter out to accept the idea that there's still some light out there again. Right. And if you can do that, then you can start just kind of holding on one step at a time. And so when we talk about thought transplants, the important piece of that, it was kind of a long story, Stephanie, but the the important piece of that is to know that you're not just choosing to substitute some happy thought in place of a negative one. What you're doing is you're choosing to say that there still is reasonable and rational, happy thoughts to be had. And it's better for my body not to suffer under an overwhelming cortisol response when I don't have to. Because that cortisol response is designed for when you're in the midst of something dangerous for your body to respond to it. It's not designed for that to be that every moment of your life. And if you choose to engage your negative thinking, which is super easy to do, then you'll unnecessarily bathe yourself in that cortisol response and you will literally take years off your life. And so the answer then is to say, to remind myself, yes, I'm sad about this thing, but yes, there's also some reasonable ways that I can find some ways to orient myself towards a more hopeful posture and that I don't have to think about those negative things, and especially the untrue parts of them, like this is always gonna be this way, or I must be a terrible dad, or my son wouldn't have died, or things like that, that you have those thoughts. And if you can do that, then you begin to kind of orient your brain towards, I'm gonna look for hope even in the midst of the hardship. And so what I like to say then is I don't want you to have a bias towards happy feelings or happy thoughts. I want you to have a bias towards realistic thinking. And it's unrealistic for your thinking to be completely negative because there's always something reasonable to latch on to that's hopeful or more positive. And so be reasonable and realistic in your thinking and be willing to accept that there's some good that you can rightfully substitute in with some of the bad, even if you're in that hard moment. And that's how you can start to reclaim that physiology for yourself.

Stress Hormones And Lifespan

SPEAKER_01 26:41

Thank you for that. And that is why everyone should also get the book, Hope is the first dose, which he wrote right before the life-changing art of self-brain surgery, connecting neuroscience and faith to radically transform your life. And I meant to ask you this question at the beginning, but I was just so excited I forgot. I want to ask you just to wrap this up, this is a Mel Robbins question, one of my favorite podcasts, in addition to yours. And the question is: what can the person listening today expect to happen if they took everything you teach us, if they bought your book and put it into practice in their lives? Because today we've talked about the idea and the theories behind self-brain surgery. But your book is filled with practical steps to actually implement this. I told Dr. Warner before we started that I've been aware of the concepts he's talking about for years, but I have never had anyone teach and explain the strategies for implementing it in my life in the way that he has, which is why I'm so hopeful that people get this book. So, what could people expect from the book in terms of really making a difference in their lives with this?

SPEAKER_00 27:52

Well, thank you for for that, Stephanie. And I think the most important practical thing that you can expect is if you learn to spend a second investigating your thinking and feelings before you react to them, you will find that you're doing less self-inflicted harm to your own life and to the lives of those that you love over time. That you'll get better at finding the positive way to spend the situation, realistically positive way to spend the situation. You'll spend less time with sleepless nights and feeling stressed, and you'll feel more resilient the next time you go through something hard because you'll have a process you can implement of how you're going to attack it mentally because your thoughts become things, and that'll turn into how you attack it physically too. And so what'll happen to you is you'll you'll make this switch from what we call it the patient to doctor switch. Most of us, if you think that your brain is your mind and that you're just your mind, or you're just your brain rather, if you think that, then you sort of have this external control that you need. You need somebody to prescribe the right medicine, prescribe the right therapy, change in some way so you can be happy. You need somebody else to do something so you can feel like you think you need to feel. If you recognize that all that change has to happen inside of you before anything can really happen outside of you, then you'll make this switch to where you say, wait, God gave me this ability to take command of my thoughts and therefore my brain will follow. And I can literally change my brain structurally to become more resilient and more hope-oriented and less stress-oriented if I choose to change my thoughts from automatic and generally negative to purposeful and only reacting to true thoughts. If you can do that, you'll make this switch and all of a sudden you'll move from this patient where you feel dependent on somebody else, you feel unable and unempowered to make change for your own self. And you'll all of a sudden be, I'm empowered, I'm trained, I know what to do when it hurts, and I know that I can make it through this situation because I've got the tools to do it. And you'll make this empowered switch, and all of a sudden you won't feel like anything that comes along is overwhelming to you because you have a strategy to deal with it.

SPEAKER_01 30:00

I like that. You're empowering us because we can't. The traditional thing is I'm unhappy, and somebody is making me unhappy. And I need to tell them why they're making me unhappy, and now I've just ruined a relationship.

SPEAKER_00 30:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:13

That's why, yeah, the thought biopsy and you have the 10 commandments of self-brain surgery. And he is a brain surgeon, and I promised I would not take more time than our 30 minutes, and here we are. So, what I'd like to do, Dr. Warren, is really help people start following you. So you're going to get the book. We've talked about the book. You're going to get hope as the first dose, probably the best investment you'll ever make. But we can hear you every week on your podcast. So tell us where else we can hear your words. Some people are podcast listeners, some people are readers. Tell us where to find you and people. Can start following you.

SPEAKER_00 30:48

Great. Yeah, my website is Dr. Lee Warren. That's just all smashed together, drleewarren.com. And it's got a place where you can sign up for my newsletter. It's got a bunch of my blogs on there. It's got a link to the podcast. So you can find everything about me there. And then if you're on the social media, I'm at Dr. Lee Warren on Instagram and Facebook and TikTok and YouTube. And I'm everywhere. Easy to find.

SPEAKER_01 31:10

All right. And if you ever need brain surgery in Nebraska, he's probably your guy.

SPEAKER_00 31:15

I'm your man. That's right.

SPEAKER_01 31:17

Thank you so much. This has been so wonderful. I can't wait to get started. You have a good day.

SPEAKER_00 31:24

Thank you, Stephanie.