Helping People Survive Loss: Real Tools for Real Grief

We sit down with educator and nonprofit leader Emilio Parga to explore how children, teens, and families can process grief with honesty, dignity, and ongoing support. Practical tools, better language, and small acts turn awkward moments into real care that lasts.

• origin story of the Solace Tree and 9/11 catalyst
• why kids want stories and names, not silence
• being a doer with specific offers of help
• language shifts from resolving to processing grief
• boys and girls grieving differently and group design
• culture, faith, and continuing bonds respected
• finding or starting grief centers and resources
• phones, public tragedy, and exposure to death
• meaning making through seasons and milestones
• grief support for athletes and performance teams

Learn more: www.solacetree.org • 775-324-7723 • Email: EMILIO@SOLACETREE.ORG

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:26

I would like to welcome Emilio Parga to the Pivotal People Podcast. And I'm excited because I have gotten to know him a little bit. I've read about him. I have listened to him on other podcasts. And I'm excited to bring his message to all of you. He's clearly a pivotal person. He is the founder and executive director of the Solace Tree in Reno, Nevada, which is a nonprofit organization that provides grief and loss support to children, teens, adults, and families. He has over 23 years of experience doing this. He's coordinated grief support groups and counseling services at the Solace Tree and across seven school districts. He also created the Good Grief Project, which is a school-based program that offers trauma-informed on-site support for children from the age of kindergarten to seniors in high school, student athletes, educators, coaches, and families who are at risk following loss. He also serves as a professor. He teaches classes on death and dying and helping children and teens cope with death and all forms of loss at the University of Nevada. He's a nationally recognized speaker. He's a consultant. He's been on hand following large-scale traumatic events like school shootings and natural disasters. And after listening to him on a couple of podcasts, I'll tell you, he's just a really great guy with a huge heart. And I'm excited for him to join us today to help teach us how we can be better at supporting people in our lives who are going through grief. So welcome. Thank you for being here, Emilio.

SPEAKER_01 2:07

Thank you so much, Stephanie, for having me. Appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 2:10

Well, I'll tell you, we talked a little bit about before we started, but I would love for you to tell your story on why you started The Solace Tree 23 years ago. What prompted you to get into this space of helping people process grief?

9/11 As Catalyst For Action

Building Community Grief Support

SPEAKER_01 2:25

Thanks so much for having me. It's such an honor. And I'm about to share things with you that I've learned. And a lot of the workshops that I do are, I'll have a title, but then it's just lessons learned. I was a former teacher and counselor in the 1990s going into the 2000s. 2001 happened, 9-11 2001 happened. It changed my life. I saw as an educator there just wasn't much to support the students, let alone I had zero hours, not one class, on how to help the grieving child, the family in English and in Spanish. At the time, I was in 85% Latino school. And 9-11 rocked us over in Reno, Nevada on the West Side. We just didn't know what to do, West Coast. We just didn't know what to do. And other conversations started happening: death of a grandparent, death of a pet, divorce, incarceration, other losses and deportation. This was in 2001. It's like, wow, we gotta, these are some hard conversations. I didn't think I was too equipped for it, but just knowing that when I was younger, my father died, and my mother abandoned me when I was 12. So I had death and loss issues, abandonment and neglect. And as a teacher, you just don't really think of bringing that up, even as a school counselor, maybe sharing a little bit, but not letting someone know. And I knew early, I know exactly how you feel. Language has changed since 9-11, 2001. I just knew not to say that, but there was a lot of things going on in my school and in the community at the time because of this tragic event on the East Coast. And so I started looking up how do you talk to kids? How do you listen to kids? How do you talk to educators and families and teachers about death and loss? And the Dougie Center showed up in Portland, Oregon. And I'm like, I'm gonna go get trained there. And I just felt like I took my inheritance money. I felt like it was time to go learn something new and bring it back for us as school counselors and teachers in our community. And so I stayed in the school district for about one more year, and then we started this nonprofit. And we started support groups, we do grief camps, we do consulting, we were doing training. And at first, a lot of people started showing up. You know, we just opened up the floodgates. It was time to start having these conversations. And even still to this day, we're in the business of having intentional dialogue. What does it look like? And been writing scripts with these kids and families based on culture and religion and the type of death and loss. You know, there's death and everything else is secondary that we've learned for 23 years. So here we are 23 years later, and we've helped thousands and thousands of people, not just in the city of Reno, the region, but the nation because of traumatic events. And it is a privilege when you sit with a child or a group of first responders or families that don't speak English. And how do we help them navigate the grieving process? Not the five stages of grief, but just to be able to support them going through their developmental stages. And that's what my class is how the heart and brain grieve from age one to 100, but it's the developmental stages. We're all going through them. Not the five stages of grief, but our developmental stages and how we grieve. I do a workshop called Seasons of Grief, right? And we grieve through the seasons, anniversaries, birthdays, holidays. And it's just been such a privilege and honor to be a part of this every single day, 23 years later. I mean, how do I say this in this field? I'm having a blast. It's such an amazing journey, and I feel like in contributing to society and to community and society. So that's in a nutshell what we've done in 23 years and how we started it.

SPEAKER_00 6:15

Well, that is so wonderful. I listened to a podcast that you were on where you also had three young people who were in your good grief group. So these are three young people who it sounded like they'd lost a father. From what I could gather, they ranged in age from about 12, maybe to 16 or 17. And a couple of things that hit me. You said, um, you know, we always like to say, well, the younger generation is our future. And you're saying, uh, no, they're our present. And that stopped me. And if we can help young people process grief when they're young, when it happens, then they won't suppress that for it to become a deeper issue as an adult. So you talked about, I won't go on a tangent, I'm gonna talk about what these kids said because that's what made it real for me. When, you know, of course, they know people don't know what to say. And they're like, you know, you don't have to say anything because anything you say is not gonna remind us that our dad died. It's always on our mind. You know what we want to do? We want to tell you about him. Like, ask us about our dad, ask us about a funny story, ask us about some memories. And the little boy who was the youngest one said, you know, when people ask me stories about my dad, it makes me feel like I'm bringing him back to life again while I tell that story. And then I heard you ask, and I heard the interviewer ask the kids what their dad was like, and they just lit up. Our dad was a great dad. Here's why. I relate to this. My mother died 16 years ago. And if somebody asked me about my mother, I am thrilled. I am happy to tell them about my mother. In the early stages, I can remember specifically some things that people said and did. They were trying to be helpful, but they weren't, and then other people said things that they thought were wrong, but they were the most helpful. I'll tell you the I'm in the south. So someone dies, and you get a dinner brought to your house every single night for two weeks. Every neighbor, I mean it's just so kind. And one woman came and brought the dinner, and I'm talking to her in the front hallway, and I asked, I always asked everyone if their mother was still alive. And uh her mother had died. And she said, Oh, but she died a long time ago. She died 10 years ago. And as we talked, she started to cry. And she said, Oh no, I shouldn't cry in front of you. It happened 10 years ago. And do you know what, Emilio? I still remember that because she gave me hope that I am not gonna forget my mother. You know, in 10 years and 16 years, you're not gonna forget this person who you loved, who died, and yes, we want to talk about it. And you gave people permission to say, Well, tell me about and if they don't want to talk, they don't have to.

SPEAKER_01 9:04

Right.

SPEAKER_00 9:05

And you also said you don't need to say anything profound, you just need to listen. So when you talk about how teaching us, train the trainer. You talked about train the trainer. Yeah, if I told you, okay, Emilio, a dear friend is going through grief, could you give me three or four tips or learnings, as you said, for how I can be a better friend to her as she goes through this grief, as she processes this grief. So that's a question. Do you have three or three? Do you have three or four things you can tell us to help us be better at walking with people through the grief?

Language Shifts That Help

SPEAKER_01 9:42

A lot of what we've learned and what we say is have people become doers. Uh start off by saying, hey, if you need me, Stephanie, you know where to find me. I got I I'm gonna miss your mom too. Um, I'll be at work all this whole this week and I don't have the kids, but give me a call and I'll and I'll be here for you. But the the the other side of that is, you know, so sad. I'm sad to hear of the death of your mother. And I want you to know that I'm gonna be checking in on you and I want to learn more about your mom. Now, this is if you're busy. I'm working until late today, then I have an appointment in the morning, but I'm available this evening and tomorrow if you'd like to go to coffee. You know, just becoming doers, always letting them know that you're available because you don't want to miss the moment. That's my biggest thing. When someone tells you that, you don't want to miss the moment. We never also want to underestimate anyone's grieving style, who, whether that whether religion, culture, or who they are and how they said it. They came to you and someone and they said, so-and-so died. So how can we support them? We just become doers. Of course, asking those questions, I if you have the time, you make the time. What a privilege when someone comes to you and says, My mother died. Then we start asking questions. We don't want, I'm not gonna say we don't say sorry. There's other ways of saying it. There isn't really a connection, but we can ask about the death of your mom, a friend, right, colleague, family member. We want to become doers. We want to let them know that we do care. We are interested. Number one, becoming a doer, right? Trying to do things. I know, hey, trash is on Friday. I live down the street. I know that I'd like to take the trash out. Do you have any dry cleaning? Can I take the kids to school? We're gonna bring over some meals. It's just all the things you can think about because now we're feeling comfortable being uncomfortable, but knowing that what a privilege someone asked us, and we want to help because we're all gonna have death in our life. So now what can we do different in our life? When I say don't miss the moment, what's our opportunity now to help that person? And they just shared it with us. It's it's it's such a privilege. So becoming doers, number two is the listen piece. Listen to what they have to say more as you ask those questions. If you don't mind me asking, this is just me, not I'm not asking you, but I'm saying in general, you know, when I heard your mom died, it made me sad. How did she die? That could be one. Are you guys having a funeral or memorial or a Shiva, depending on if you know their culture, religion, or a service, a celebration of life, asking those questions too, getting involved. That's a huge piece is asking those questions where you let them know that you are you do care and you are listening. That's the listening piece. Being present, I would say, is number three, just listening and being present, knowing that you're gonna be able to help them because they came to you. And then, you know, asking for a hug, you always want to ask for permission. You don't have to say anything, but asking for permission as you leave that conversation, or maybe exactly when they said it, because there's no like timetable, just like grief has no ending. It's not like grief never ends. So it's not like uh, you know, especially if someone's crying or they just tell you this information, you're just like staring at each other, you don't know what to say. It's like, can I have a hug? Just to hug the person with permission to let them know that you're also sad and it made you sad that your your mother, a family member, your pet died, whatever that is, but it's a privilege. Never thinking that you're not making a difference, but trying to get involved. The small things are the big things. I've always believed that and I've learned it. The little things that we can do, like the things I just told you that I suggested that have worked because we've used them, people have told us about them, just reaching out. But also, lastly, checking in. So if we had this conversation now and I saw you at work or at a Starbucks, I'm gonna check in with you just that night, maybe through a text message. I'm gonna call you the next morning. You don't have to answer your phone. I don't need to get a hold of you. If I asked you when the funeral is gonna be or the celebration of life, and you just don't know, you just don't know. But you also want to help out, depending on your relationship, because again, someone just told you that somebody died. That's what brings us together. And then letting that person know I'm I'm here to support you. And in a sense, without saying that I care about you. So these are the little things that are the big things that make a huge difference in someone who's bereaved, someone who's had a death in their life. It goes a long, long way.

SPEAKER_00 14:33

I'm telling you a story about a woman from 10 years ago, and I've never even told her what that did. I should write her a note. She should know that. Another thing that you said was how different the language is today. So, you know, there's all kinds of loss. You talk about it's not just death. There's uh kids, parents get divorced. Uh, you said a pet dies, perhaps a parent has a life-threatening illness. There are all kinds of loss or what you call imminent loss. I'm 62. My parents were divorced when I was nine. Back in 1970, whatever that was, you just went to school. They told you on a Sunday afternoon they were getting divorced, and you got on the school bus Monday morning. And we're not even going to talk about it. And this is the way it is. And, you know, the adults are, they didn't have any sort of resources for kids then. So now you're talking about when, let's suppose you have your good grief group and the 12-year-old is going through the grief of the loss of a parent, but the remaining parent is also going through the grief. And you talk about how the older generation, because they may have had a trauma or a loss in the childhood, that was never processed. Now you have this double layer of this adult who is trying to process this additional loss without ever having learned how to process. When I read that story, I thought, okay, that is a second reason why it's so important that we invest in this younger generation to help them process grief so that they will be healthier adults, healthier parents. I don't know about you, but a pet peeve of mine, the expression of children are resilient. Are they? Or are they just shoving it down because no one asked them? And we don't want to do that. We don't want it to come up when they're, you know, broken marriages in the future and all of that. A couple of other things, language. Okay, teach us this. Here's an example that you said. I'd like you to tell us more. Okay. Instead of saying they're, you know, resolving their grief as if grief must have an endpoint, you talk about processing grief. Instead of saying, you know, the grief is not something we have to fix because it's not broken. Grief is a perfectly normal reaction to a loss. And as you said, it it continues. So being able to take the burden off a child's shoulder to well, you're not supposed to be sad anymore. Spend six months, you know, get on with it. So language, language is important. Educate us on how we can use better language than what we may have been raised with.

Boys, Girls, And Grief Styles

SPEAKER_01 17:16

Absolutely. And and and I have to say, with grief, it's when we're working with children, teens, adults, or whoever, whatever field, and we want them to feel this. We're not there to fix it. Grief, that word is a is a feeling word, not a fixed word. And I read a book in 1938 that said the best way to grieve, it was so cool, it was 1938. It said the best way to grieve, it was a book about having a child die. The best way to grieve is to grieve. And I was like, wow, this is 1938. This was a long time ago. And we've learned now, 23 years later, that boys grieve differently than girls and men grieve differently than women. That's the unprocessed grief. If we look at all the mass shootings and school shootings, they're mostly men. They're mostly men, they're mostly teen boys and men, yes. So I use words like unprocessed grief and unaddressed grief. It's not like unresolved grief because I heard a parent say years ago, I'm not trying to resolve my ex my feelings because my son died. I don't want, I'm not trying to accept it, and it's not gonna ever be resolved. He died, I'll always grieve him. And I love that piece because that's what he said, and that's that's what I learned from them. We're seeing since 2020, the pandemic 2021, we started putting boys and girls separately. They were always together. And girls and women in groups and in counseling groups also. Uh, women and girls are models for men and boys, the tears, the expression. We were raised differently than you. We we we grieve differently than you, we process things and how we were raised. I love the boys when they come together, they talk about things. So we can we get silly a little bit, but we know that because they grieve so differently than girls, they have so much to share when they're with their other kids. And it takes some time, it doesn't happen overnight in these groups, that they want to talk about their grief and they feel comfortable. And it's good for other boys and other men to know that wow, he grieves this way. And it just gives them permission. I love that word because it just gives men permission to grieve. So unaddressed grief, unprocessed grief, it takes a lifetime, you know, to grieve this, and we're not gonna ever get over it. Grief never ends. That's a huge piece in the language of grieving. And again, it's and it's not I'm so sorry, or I'm sorry that your mom died, because in it because we role-play a lot of this language and what it looks like. We do scripts, we've written them for the year over the years. We want them to know what it feels like when because they already know when someone says, I'm so sorry. But when we change it up and we're like, Your mom died? What was her name? Now these are kids, right? And tweens. How did she die? That makes me sad, you know, if they want to share. You know, my my dog died. I know it's not the same, but I've had similar feelings, you know, and they talk about that. We don't put that in their head, but to have them actually realize. role play what it looks like to show empathy and compassion when someone says so-and-so died. I love this piece of working with kids because we have kids that kids that are now uh social workers and psychologists and med students that were once at the solace tree and they volunteered. So they paid it forward. They gave back and they learned so much from others and they want to give back because it helped them be around people who were like-minded in a sense that somebody died. So that language of using the word unprocessed and unaddressed is so much better than unresolved because nobody really wanted to hear unresolved grief. No one's trying to resolve it. We're trying to get through it because that's what we're living with, right? We're living with this. We're not trying to get over it. We're living with this for the rest of our lives.

Starting And Finding Grief Centers

SPEAKER_00 21:14

And you give them permission to do that. And when I um heard the children speaking about these groups it really motivated me to say okay you have trained the trainer materials I want to talk about this because you're in Nevada and you do have a center in New York but there are people listening to this from you know all over the country. So they might be saying okay it makes sense is there a resource like this where I live or can I start something like this at my church or my synagogue or place of worship? Is there something that I can do in my community to help these kids because when I heard your kids interviewed they all said how important those groups were one said you know I shouldn't say this but they're fun because everyone in the group understands we all understand each other. You even have three day camps they look forward to going to camps and I just think how healing how wonderful and how can we here's my question how can we support what you're doing expand what you're doing what would you a nonprofit organization you have a website what does your website offer people who aren't in your hometown?

SPEAKER_01 22:30

So what it does offer and I can't think of the page but they can email me there's a section where it has every grief center in the world and we actually got it from the National Alliance for Children's Grief. That's like the umbrella for children and teen grief and families and businesses organizations etc but we actually put that link on our webpage and and it's somewhere on the homepage but you got to drop down and and we started a a a couple because in places like this platforms people are like oh my gosh I want to start one and and so we just talked about how to go about it what you need to do of course board members you need some money you need to get businesses involved you need sponsors but there's a grief center I have to say in almost every state in the United States in Australia in London in China yeah they're all over the world and are grief centres primarily for the death of a loved one or do they address other traumas and life experiences? I would say half or for when somebody died and lost all the other traumatic and then the other half is just strictly death. Our program is death but we go out to the schools and the community and the businesses to do grief in the workplace. We work athletic teams at university athletics businesses and organizations even a yoga shack you know because someone died and they want to do a memorial and they were doing like just I wanted to come in and talk to some of the people so just being invited to do things like that and have that conversation you know having the intention of having these conversations in the workplace so they can have them at home and in schools. Those children like I told you earlier will be teenagers will be adults will be family members will be parents will be will be leaders they'll be any profession but they're going to be able to help others because they had this support in these grief centers. And from the grief centers all the way into the universities all the way into in businesses, organizations. They got to want it but we know that it works. That's why we should never underestimate a child's ability to grieve think feel love because someday they will be an adult and that's what we're doing. We're just supporting them like you said earlier and what we said because we learned it they're not the future they're the present we're not even there yet we don't even know what tomorrow looks like so we're working with them now so we can they can you know pay it forward later that's the one of the most beautiful things that I've seen in this journey.

Culture, Faith, And Continuing Bonds

SPEAKER_00 25:11

You've done this 23 years are there any new developments that you've seen in the world of grief for kids are they getting better at dealing with it are adults getting better at dealing with it or I I see here that you are a consultant and you go on site to school shootings. Are they dealing with more trauma than perhaps our earlier generation?

Phones, Public Tragedy, And Exposure

SPEAKER_01 25:33

I mean I don't want to say things that don't have data to support it but I'm just Yeah you know it's still the same mass shootings and school shootings are a lot different than just opening up a grief center and saying we're here to listen to you talk about your your you know the death in your life they come from all over and when we were in when we were in Reno and there was a family that moved from Florida after a school shooting a couple years later just they so happen to move to Reno. You know they're everywhere and for a while there there was mass shootings and school shootings almost every day for years in cities. So it's it's it's it's just hard on families communities schools the workplace people are still that's why I teach the class at the university there's people that are now kid students and student athletes that are in their 19 and 21 that still are like I don't know if we can write a eulogy or create our funeral or write an obituary or visit the funeral home. They just don't know even if we look at historical perspectives on death and dying and when it all changed after World War II in the American culture, they don't know that. So it's still hard for them to grasp we can talk about death it's because those parents that are in their you know 40s are still people are still having a really hard time you know dealing with all this we're still it's still pulling teeth out for for some but we know and I said this 10 years ago and 20 to 40 years from now 10 years ago we're going to be a little more comfortable talking about it. And I I I have to give that so many years but also knowing that it's on our phones, right? When somebody dies and I have to share when Betty White died years ago and I was teaching my class students were like yeah Betty White died. I didn't even know these students knew who Betty White was and they here's what they said and I'll never forget it. They only know her from the Super Bowl commercial when she did the Snickers commercial but because it was cute or it was funny that she did this commercial they didn't know who she was but some of the girls were like I used to watch Glory girls Golden Girls Golden Girls with my mom and they're like oh so a lot of the women of course knew who she was the females but a lot of the male teenagers didn't really just know who she was but you know everything's on our phone now and so either we just do this because we're like as an effect me or they just don't want to talk about it.

SPEAKER_00 28:10

So we're still it's still like young if you will okay you just raised something in my mind Emilio is that yeah they are seeing murders and deaths and tragedy immediately real time all the time from their phones. You know I don't even like to list but you know just in the past few months we've had some pretty awful public deaths and I mean that was immediate and videos of it online and kids are seeing this stuff. So we need your kind of support network more than ever. And you know it encourages me because listening to those three kids they just sounded so just so honest with their feelings and you know a combination of being sad about missing their dad but being happy at being able to look at their grief and talk about it with each other. It's kind of like you can have both.

SPEAKER_01 29:03

You can have the sadness you can also have the joy of the memories and giving kids the tools to know how to do that and then teaching their parents who never learned that when they were young and we talk about that we talk about the joy and the sorrow and there's two huge buzzwords in the grieving world that we've learned one is making meaning making meaning now of our life without our father our pet our grandmother our sibling our teacher you know our classmate our teammate what are we going to do now because we're gonna miss him. He's not in that chair anymore he's not in uniform he's not playing next to me they're not showing up at this meeting that we're all having coffee on this Friday anymore male or female so making meaning and continuing bonds. It's a huge word for those who you know have faith and are religious because you don't know unless someone has that conversation respecting and accepting where someone's at but where are they? It rarely comes up in our grief center and when we do workshops but we have to acknowledge it because that's where they believe their loved one is and we have to listen to that. In the moment we do have to accept and respect because that's how they grieve this is what they're doing. They believe in God and whatever their religion and culture is this is how they do things. You know other in the United States these countries are a lot older than us they just do things differently than us because they've had death in their lives and their country and their families for for such a long time you know there's just so many stories. There's so many stories but yeah well what's next?

SPEAKER_00 30:39

What's next for you and for the solace tree and what is your hope for you said the next five, ten years? What what do you see?

Meaning Making And Ongoing Support

SPEAKER_01 30:48

So we found a gap in sports psychology. I'm working on uh working with sports psychologists coaches uh mental performance coaches uh elite performers and we're just working with them having grief during their practice during their game and what that looks like knowing that it's okay that they can talk to someone and not so much the psychologist they all have psychologists these teams in these elite businesses but to know that coaches and teammates can actually talk about it or let them talk about it and that they're not weak if they go to counseling or therapy or they're having problems in school or on the field or the court or the pool, right? Because they don't really know what to do with the death of their sibling a teammate or their parent maybe even a pet for some because they were now they're in college but their pet of you know 15 years and they went to college was their best friend and slept in their room and and they're still dealing with that a pet died and there's a whole nother piece with those you know humans grieving the death of a pet. It could be a horse or a a dog a cat. That's what we're doing. I'm super excited I found a niche and we're we're doing workshops this year we're speaking in Minnesota next year about working with a mental performance and sports psychologist working with athletes it's hard to believe there was really nothing in place. And I know they're doing this in general but now we're having everybody have that conversation with intention to know that it's okay. And it's part of their mental well-being is talking about death in sports and as the performers as well musicians, artists and actors and actresses. So we've really brought it to the forefront it's a two-year project it's forever now and so that's what we're doing and we're gonna invite more athletes more athletes are interested in performers and coming to a Zoom call or a conference and talking about how that death affected them what was what worked what didn't work as they went through high school college and their professional and their profession as a professional athlete or an Olympian I'm super excited about it and and it wasn't like I was taking a break I was resting but now it's like I got some people involved and they're on board and it's just such a great project super excited.

New Frontier: Grief In Sports

SPEAKER_00 33:19

I'm sitting here thinking wouldn't it be great if everyone had the kind of meaningful career that you have I mean I you're just you can't see this is audio you guys can't see his face he is so on fire about this and he's so sincere and he's you know people who put their whole heart and soul into really giving to others in such a meaningful way inspire me. And that's why we have pivotal people because you inspire us and I anyone listening to this who wants to get in touch with you or learn more, tell us where to find you, where to find your website and um you said your email address is on your website.

SPEAKER_01 33:56

Absolutely so they can reach out to www.solastree.org S O L A C E T R E E dot org or they can call our office at 775 324 7723 did I already say that no that's pretty nice we usually don't get phone numbers wow yeah give the give the phone number then on there my email addresses and I'll be clear it's E M I L I O at S and Sam or Stephanie S and Stephanie O L A C E T R E E dot org emailio at solace.org and you know what Stephanie we work seven days a week wow wow yeah seven days a week so I will put that on our show notes yeah you can learn more by going to solaceree org and I am looking forward to hearing an update um in some time on how this program is going with athletes that's a whole different topic and that's a very big topic topic that's a very big topic and we start on next we start we start this Friday and we're gonna go all the way till October but we won't rest over the holidays we're gonna be available and in the meantime Stephanie you have my number my email again we work seven days a week for you know our community our society feel reach out uh if if you'd like so well thank you so much and thanks for taking your time to share what you're doing with us you've inspired me I know you've inspired a lot of our listeners and we'll be in touch thank you so much for what you do thank you for your time on this as well Stephanie you're welcome take care