EP 215: Building Human-Centered Talent Acquisition in the AI Era

Kelsey Hersh grew up between two completely different worlds: one grounded in structure, the other filled with artists, Burning Man gatherings, and weekly fire dancing circles. Now Head of Talent Acquisition at Hometap, she brings that same ability to navigate different environments into building values-driven teams and trusted hiring partnerships. In this conversation, she shares why adaptability, human connection, and long-term fit matter more than ever in an AI-driven hiring landscape.

Connect with host James Mackey on LinkedIn!

Intro (00:00)

Background (00:46)

Talent Acquisition (17:41)

Advice/ Growth (32:48)

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Transcript

Welcome And Meet Kelsey

SPEAKER_01 0:46

Hey everyone, welcome to the show. Today we have Kelsey Hirsch with us. She's the head of talent acquisition over at HomeTap. Kelsey, thanks for joining me today.

SPEAKER_00 0:54

Yeah, thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_01 0:56

Yeah, of course. So where are you from?

SPEAKER_00 0:59

I am from originally I'm from Oi, California, which is a small town just a like hour and a half north of LA.

SPEAKER_01 1:06

All right, good stuff. And um did you uh did you spend your whole childhood there?

SPEAKER_00 1:11

Yeah, I was born and raised there. Super small town. They actually had one hospital with a birthing center that's actually no longer there. You can't be born in Oi anymore. Um and I lived there until I was 17 and went off to college. Um, and now I'm in Boston. Uh and I went to college at Tufts. I've been out here for for almost 20 years, which is wild.

SPEAKER_01 1:32

Nice. And OHI, that's spelled O J A I. Is that right?

SPEAKER_00 1:37

Yep, that's right.

SPEAKER_01 1:38

Okay, I'm not gonna tell you what I initially spelled that like when I punched it into Google just now, but like somehow Google knew what I was trying to trying to do. Um but man, it looks uh looks beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 1:52

Yeah, it's gorgeous. It's the super small town, 8,000 people. Um, it's a valley surrounded by mountains. So now it's kind of like a vacation destination for people from LA. When I was growing up there, no one had heard of it, but it was like very idyllic, like very small town growing up for sure.

SPEAKER_01 2:10

It's absolutely gorgeous. For everybody tuning in, you should definitely look up some uh photos here. Uh O J A I. Oh, hi. Just the one. Um, but yeah, so you said uh too, it's it's become uh like a really popular destination for folks to come and live or at least to have vacation homes.

Two Homes And Two Worlds

SPEAKER_00 2:29

Or yeah, a lot of celebrities live there now. Um, so it's actually like a whole drama in the town because a lot of like property values are are through the roof and people are getting pushed out of town and whatever, but it's like such a nice place to go home and visit because like the food is amazing. They're I mean, it's just again, it's like a little vacation town. And then out here in Boston, like we have those places, but they only kind of exist in the summer. But out in California, they're kind of like just year-round destinations. So yeah, my family doesn't actually like live in town anymore. Again, they were kind of part of the part of the being pushed out of town, but um, it was it was a really lovely place to grow up.

SPEAKER_01 3:08

Yeah, it looks it looks absolutely beautiful. And um, you had some uh sort of a unique experience. And I know you mentioned that your parents divorced, I think, when you were pretty young, right?

SPEAKER_00 3:18

Yeah, okay, yeah, they they divorced, I think, before I was a year old. I have no memory of my parents being together, and so I was always kind of between both houses. I was super lucky because they were like very amicable, they got along really well, like they did all the right things, they focused on me in terms of like how they made decisions. But I had two very different households. My dad lived like it was, you know, a very like normal middle class life. Um, and my mom is she's she was an artist, like she was a musician, an actress. She ran a Shakespeare festival in town, which was like all summer long and like something I did constantly. Um, and she kind of like built this home environment that was like essentially an artist community. It was, it was this big property, and there were always like friends of my parents that were there and staying there for extended periods of time, or like if someone was coming in town for the music festival or for the Shakespeare Festival, like we would house them. Um, and so there were just like always new and interesting faces kind of like around, and there were always events and they would throw these big parties and like it was just this like really, really vibrant community. Um, and it's not something like I would ever do on my own. Like, that's not my personality at all. Me and my mom are very, very different. Um, but to grow up in that environment, I think like it just like it exposed me to so many different types of people. Like it was really, really interesting and something I actually didn't realize was like different until I came out to college and started talking to people and they're like, what? Like, what is your life? And I was like, Okay, let me back up, let me figure it out. But um, it's been kind of a it was it was just really fun.

Kids Learn Strange Normalities

SPEAKER_01 5:00

Yeah, it's funny when as a kid, we of course don't have any context or perspective of different you know, you just sort of accept whatever is happening as normal, right? Like, as like, oh, this is just life for everybody, right? Like it could be literally anything, it could be any, any like literally any experience you have when you're five, your brain just goes, like, yeah, this is like this is totally, yeah, yeah, yeah. I my my poor daughter. So this is kind of a wild, random story, but it just kind of made me think of this like uh in terms of like kids not knowing what normal is. Um last week, I'm not kidding you. This is so random. I got attacked by a bird. I'm not kidding. Yeah, for real. Or attacked, yeah. Yeah, I got it. Like I was running, I was jogging, right?

SPEAKER_00 5:41

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 5:42

And I guess I ran like underneath a tree where I got too close to a nest or something.

SPEAKER_00 5:48

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:49

And so like like I felt something hit the back of my head really hard. That's scary. Yeah, it's like what the hell? So I look, I assume that like a branch or something drops, right? So I'm like, I'm looking around the ground and I can't, I don't see anything that could have hit me on the head. Like, there's no branches. There's like rocks where like rocks don't fall from trees. Like this no, and uh and so like I I go home and the back of my head's like kind of scratched up, and uh just like, well, I guess it's like it's like a bird, I guess. I you know, I had to go to the doctor and get antibiotics. My poor daughter, she's like, Oh my gosh, she's six. Um, she's like just a little kid, and and she just like she's just like, what you got attacked by bird? And she probably in her head thinks like, Oh, this is like you just gotta like look out for birds. Like you like you're just gonna be walking down the street.

SPEAKER_00 6:38

My five-year-old has been terrified of birds, she's kind of getting over it now, but when she was younger, she was absolutely terrified. Really? And I think it's because we were once at the beach and a seagull came and like, you know, took our food, and she was convinced that birds wanted to take anything. She'd be like, Okay, the bird is gonna take the car, the bird is gonna take my swing sound. Like, the bird can't get those things, the bird doesn't want them. Oh my god, they want your lobster roll in Maine, but it does not want anything else. So okay, yeah.

Burning Man Nights And Fire Dancing

SPEAKER_01 7:08

So this is so both of our children are traumatized from birds. Yes, that is hilarious, but yeah, anyways, like that's like it's just sort of funny, right? Because they're just like, Oh, yeah, like this is just something you have to look out for. Like, birds are gonna steal all your stuff, like yes, you know. Um, it's just sort of funny, like just the lack of perspective, you know, because you just have no idea what what normal is. But this is like getting back to your story, it's like it, it's it's really fascinating. So you you also had mentioned that um regularly, like there was a fair amount of like parties and events at your house. And what was one of the you were telling, like you were saying every Tuesday night there was uh an event at your house, right?

SPEAKER_00 7:46

Yeah, so so my my parents were like very early um attendees at Burning Man. So like now everyone knows what that is, but you know, they were going before anyone from San Francisco was going. And so they had kind of like built this community around like going out to the desert and like building things to burn and like all these different interesting art projects. And so, like Tuesday was like the big like Burning Man community gathering night at our home. So sometimes that was like building an art car, like whatever it might be. But um, the big thing that they did, they all did fire dancing. So, like, you know, just as you'd imagine, like things lit on fire and like dancing with them. And they would gather, like, you know, dozens of people at the house and they would just practice, like and they would learn from each other and they would do lessons and like it was this whole thing that they would do every Tuesday night. And I would get that out there a little bit. I was like very reluctant as a kid to participate in these kinds of things. But um, my mom always tells the story of like I, you know, like she would she like to tell people how uptight I was because we were very different. Like, this was not my vibe. And I would like I would be up in my bedroom and I'd be like like calling out the window. I'm like, can you turn the music down? Like, can you can you guys stop? Because like I have to go to bed. I have a test in the morning, I have whatever. So it was interesting. It was like this very mixed bag of like it was really fun and I enjoyed it a lot, but also I was like, okay, guys, we gotta do, we gotta do real life. Um, but yeah, there, I mean, they would throw these huge, huge parties. Um, I mean, it like lots of costumes. My mom was like again in the in the arts, and so everything was a costume, everything was a dress-up opportunity. Um, no surprises now. I like hate Halloween. I you can't get a costume on me to like save your life. So, like, it's interesting how you know, like we everyone like rebels in their own way, and mine was like into a very like more traditional life than the one I grew up in. Yeah, exactly. I do it for my kids, but that's where I draw the line. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:58

Yeah, that's funny. And so you said it was pretty different at your uh your dad's place.

SPEAKER_00 10:04

Yeah, I mean, my dad's family is like a very like just a normal family. I he remarried when I was really young. Um, so it was very close with my stepmom. I had a little brother over there, half brother, who I still love and adore. Um, my stepmom had bipolar disorder, and so that there was just a lot of um, there was a lot of instability, but in a very, very different way to the kind of like instability that I had at my mom's house, right? And so like navigating those two environments, I think was really formative for me. I think like it again, I didn't really realize it at the time, but being able to kind of like code switch between homes, between people, between, you know, like the values in those homes were very different. I think, you know, everyone was cared about kindness and you know, being a good person and like all of those like core values were were the same and people got along really well. And so I think that was really important to me. And being able to exist in very different types of environments was was just like essential to survival, I think, growing up.

SPEAKER_01 11:09

Do you feel like that's benefited you in terms of how you approach your career? Or I'm just curious because that I mean, I grew up in a divorced household uh as well, and then also I'm divorced from my daughter's uh mom, and and so I'm looking at her development, I'm wondering, it's like you start two different households. I don't know if it's as drastically different as as your upbringing, but I'm always kind of curious, like trying to make it work for her, obviously. Like, like how do we make the situation like you know benefit uh her development and uh give her exposure to different perspectives, right? And different ways of of living and doing things, but yeah, curious, how do you feel like it like impacted you in terms of how you your worldview and how you operate as a professional, as a mother, just like yeah, no, it's a great question.

Tufts And Finding Her Pace

SPEAKER_00 11:54

I mean, I think, well, first of all, having kids has made me realize like to some extent, we're just born who we are, right? And I think like my parents could have been a lot less lucky and had a child who just like was not predisposed to being able to manage these things. And so I think like being able to kind of see your kid as they are and like being able to help them navigate the situation that they're in front of, but also with the tools that they were kind of like born and that you've given them. Like, I think that's like a really that's been a really interesting lesson for me as a mom. But in terms of my career and just like how I've made kind of decisions and and that like I'm in I'm in the business of people and I've always been in the business of people, right? And like people are challenging and people are different and people are unpredictable. Again, like it's not a direct tie, but I I have to imagine that living this life where I was like dealing with so many different types of people all the time and being able to do that has allowed me to kind of come into my work, whether it was, you know, before I was a home tap and doing kind of like career counseling type of work, I'm sure we'll talk about that. Um, or now, like when we're dealing with candidates and hiring managers and like they're all coming at things from their own point of view. They've got their own perspective, there are different things that are gonna set them off. Like being able to build trust with different types of people, I think is the biggest kind of like attack, right, to being able to do this job well. You have to be able to build trust. And if you can't, like it's just not it's not gonna work.

SPEAKER_01 13:30

Yeah. And so you ended up going to college uh at is it Tufts uh college? Yeah, not in Boston or uh it's right outside of Boston, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:43

Yeah, yeah. And I yeah, I mean, like from a young age, I was definitely like I was very academic. I cared a lot about school. And my parents say that starting at like 10 years old, I said I was gonna go to college in in the Northeast in New England. I have no idea where I got that idea. I'm sure it was like on a TV show or something. Um, that's the that's the only reason I could have known. Um, but I yeah, I just knew that like California wasn't the end goal for me. And so, you know, I always joke like when I was in California, my friends would make fun of me and they'd say, like, you walk so fast, or like you're like always so anxious, or this and that. And I got out here to to Boston and everyone was like, Oh, you seem so laid back, like you're so calm. And I was like, Oh, okay, these are my people. Like I found a place where people are kind of like moving at the pace. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I like I think growing up in the town I grew up in, it was so small. And like, again, a lot of artists, not a lot of people with traditional jobs. I didn't know a lot of like doctors or lawyers. I certainly didn't know anyone in finance, like that none of those like traditional jobs were things that I was like very exposed to. It was a lot of teachers, it was a lot of writers, it was a lot of this stuff. And I felt like no one moved with a sense of urgency. And I always have a sense of urgency, which I think like is a good fit for a career in TA. Um, but it was really nice to be able to like go to a place where I felt like people understood me and kind of thought the same way that I did and and were able to kind of like help me to grow in that way as well.

SPEAKER_01 15:23

And you studied education, right? Like that was your degree?

SPEAKER_00 15:27

Uh eventually. So in undergrad, I studied political science. Um, and I didn't have like a career path in mind. I just got there and took some classes and like that was a class that I really loved. I loved my intro to polypsy. It turns out I just had like one of the best professors at the university.

SPEAKER_01 15:43

That makes a big difference, right?

From Nonprofits To Career Counseling

SPEAKER_00 15:45

Yeah. And then like I just kind of followed that path. Um, and I did, I did take quite a few classes in education. I took quite a few classes in women's studies. Like I did it, I did a lot of work, you know, in in the music department, which I had done all through high school. And so, yeah, I mean, like I tried to, you know, kind of I just followed things that I found interesting, which like in retrospect, maybe I wish I had had a little bit more career focus um in college, but I was just trying to to do things that I thought were interesting. So I ended up majoring in poli sci. Um, and then I got my first job out of college kind of by luck. I didn't really know what I wanted to do. I knew that I wanted to be in like social impact was really, really important in the university that I went to. A lot of people went into government jobs or um worked on political campaigns, or, you know, like I had friends who went abroad and did like service work abroad. So those were all sorts of things that were like very central to the culture of the university that I went to. I met this woman at a random career networking event who was in nonprofit consulting. And I was like, oh, that actually sounds really interesting, like working with nonprofits to help them to better themselves. And so I ended up landing my first job out of college at a nonprofit consulting firm out here in Boston. Um, and so like again, it was all just like a very fluid um path. I got my master's in education a little bit later at my next job when I kind of like decided that was, you know, I thought for a minute that that was like the the path that I wanted to go down. So yeah, I've done like a little bit of everything there.

SPEAKER_01 17:24

Nice. Okay, cool. And so to fast forward a little bit to to where you are today, now you're the head of talent acquisition, um, which is a recent promotion, right?

SPEAKER_00 17:36

That's uh yeah, yeah, thank you. Yeah, I I was director of recruiting, yeah. And now we're kind of like expanding the role a little bit to think a bit more about like talent acquisition more broadly.

SPEAKER_01 17:45

Or is it head of talent or head to talent acquisition?

SPEAKER_00 17:48

Uh talent acquisition. Okay. Yeah. No, we we have a full kind of like HR department that's a little bit separate, but we work really closely, of course.

SPEAKER_01 17:56

So what um what's the difference in the role do you think? I mean, is there going to be nuanced differences or big differences in terms of your day-to-day uh in the head of versus director?

SPEAKER_00 18:07

Yeah, I mean, I think the way that we at Home Top think about promotions and career growth, like in a lot of cases and in in my kind of trajectory at the company, like you you kind of start doing the role before you're, you know, officially given that title. I started at the company as a recruiter. I had managed before, but I was like, okay, I'm I'm changing industries, like I'm gonna, you know, just take this move and kind of go in as an IC, knowing that like ultimately I wanted to lead and manage. And so I kind of like took that on and then I moved into a manager role and then took a little bit more on and moved up, and that's kind of how it's been. I think as we think about the difference between like recruiting and TA, it's really about how do we think about the the full life cycle of the employee, right? Like, and that's not down to the things that our like HR, you know, colleagues are doing, but really thinking about like succession planning, thinking about, you know, where do we have points of weakness, thinking about how do we work with our hiring managers to be a counselor? And that's something that I've always like prided myself on is being able to be like a really good sounding board. And and I don't have any problem like pushing back on a hiring manager when they tell me that they think they need this, and and I know X about the company. And so I'm gonna ask the tough questions, right? And so I think my ability to do those things is probably what has allowed me to kind of grow into this role because I'm I don't look at things from how do we get someone in the door, right? I'm not really, I mean, I of course I'm focused on recruiting the best talent and getting them into the company, but it's really about like, how do we bring people into the company that are going to be long-term fits, that are going to be value ad, that are gonna be a really good culture fit, who are gonna help us grow. Does this role align with the business goals that we have? And so for me, um, it's really important to have context into everything that I'm doing, into the business, into, you know, I'm really, really lucky that I work for a leader or chief people officer who really brings me into a lot of those decisions and gives me the context that I need. And she always has. And that's how I've always been really the most successful in any job that I've had, because I think like TA doesn't exist in a vacuum. Recruiting doesn't exist in a vacuum. It it exists in this full picture of the company and what is the company trying to achieve and how are we helping it get there. And if we lose sight of that, then we start to focus on these small wins or just getting someone in the door to fill a rec. And I I don't think that's I don't think that's the best use of this function.

Recruiting Versus Talent Acquisition

SPEAKER_01 20:48

Yeah, I hear you. And um so congrats again on the on the pos promotion. That's awesome. And I I wanted to ask you about 2026. We got a little over half the year uh to go, which is kind of crazy to think about. It's already May. What is your obsession from now to the end of the year? Like, what are you really going to be focused on professionally?

SPEAKER_00 21:09

Uh yeah, I mean, I think it's a lot of what we just talked about. It's really continuing to expand my own focus on the business and how is my function, how is my team supporting the business in that way? I think we're all obsessed, right, in this in this field with how are we going to build and maintain the quality that we have in this world where AI is everywhere, right? Where candidates are using it for their applications, there's a lot of candidate fraud. Like, how are we, you know, like there's so many different things that I'm sure everyone on this podcast is talking to you about because it's it's everywhere. But for me, it's like, how do we continue to focus on values? How do we continue to focus on quality? Um, the business that I'm in is in a really interesting like growth and inflection point in terms of like how we think about the business and how do we grow the business? And we've had a lot of really, really great success. And so it's a it's really about like scale, but not necessarily scale in terms of number of people, but like scale in terms of complexity of the business. And so it's been really important for me and my team and our hiring managers to be thinking about like, okay, is this person that we're talking to a good fit for home tap a year ago? Or are they a good fit for home tap today? Or are they a good fit for home tap a year from now, two years from now? Right. And like really trying to square those things. And in some cases, that's the same answer across the board. And in some Cases it's a little bit different, like the needs are a little bit different. Um, and so I think it's just really, really important to be able to do that. What we always come back to is values, right? Like we're a very values-based company. We do a lot of values-based hiring, um, you know, making sure we're training our interviewers on how to do those things, how to assess, not just for like, can you do the job, but can you do the job in this environment and really successfully in this environment? Are you going to be a really like great colleague? We talk about being like good owners and good neighbors because we're in the housing space. So that's kind of our little housing language. Um, but I think it really like plays in. Like we want people who are excellent at their jobs and are going to be a really good fit for the company overall. And so those, those benchmarks change over time. Like this, I don't work in a static company. And so for 2026, a lot of it is thinking about like, how do we do that while also working with a lean team and optimizing our processes and utilizing AI where we can, but not in a way that removes any sort of human element to what to what we're doing. And um, how do we review resumes that are generated by AI? How do we talk to candidates who may be deep faking, right? Like they're all like there's so many different inputs. Um, but I think it always comes back to like having a really human process, making sure that we're assessing for the right things, making sure that we're really aligned with our hiring managers and and we're all kind of working with the same goal in mind, which is again like that big picture support of the company and where where are we going and who's gonna be a good fit.

SPEAKER_01 24:27

Yeah. And uh, you know, I I also at this point in your career, you've been in uh talent acquisition leadership uh at well, I mean, you were a recruiting manager starting in 2022, then 2023 director of recruiting and now head of TA. I'd love to get your advice on top takeaways as a talent acquisition leader. Before we hit record, one of the things you mentioned is value-based hiring. Could you elaborate on that?

Hiring Quality In The AI Era

Values Based Hiring That Holds

SPEAKER_00 24:57

Yeah, so I mean, I think it's really important. Home tap has has been great about this since before I got there, right? We have a really core set of values. And it's important to us that every single hire that we bring in exhibits those values. Everyone's gonna be a little bit on a spectrum, right? Some are gonna be stronger than others. But um, what we have found is that you can't just assess for functional fit. You have to assess for whether or not this person is going to be a good values fit. And if you can keep a really strong values fit across the organization, it keeps culture really strong. Um, and so again, they kind of like fall into those good owner, good neighbor buckets. But one of our core values is we roll up our sleeves. No, it's not a unique value. I think a lot of companies have a value like that. Um, but it's okay, how does that fit into the team that this person is going into? How does that fit into the function? You know, if we're hiring a senior leader, is it someone who's willing to kind of get in the weeds and like really dig in? And is it someone who sees a problem and wants to go out and solve that problem or are they going to deflect, right? And that deflection is not something that's kind of like built into our culture. So that's how we do it here. Um, I think for me, like values have always been really a big part of how I think about work. Um, obviously, like I was saying, my first job that I went into was in that like nonprofit space. We were working with nonprofits to help them grow their development function. So we would like help them to raise money and then also help them to hire um development leaders. So there was like an executive search element to the role. And when I was there, it was really interesting. Like I was doing some of that work, but I also was someone who like really wanted to know more about how the business worked and I really cared about like knowing, again, all of the context around what I was doing. And so that's how kind of I ended up like shifting into HR within that org. But when I left that company, I was there for like four or five years. When I left that company, I decided I wanted to have even more impact. And so I went over to Northeastern University, which is another, you know, college here in Boston. Um, they have a co-op program, so like six-month rotational kind of like work um work programs. And I moved into like a counselor role working with those students. So I was working specifically with like finance students for the most part and helping them to find opportunities. And and I taught a class, like how to get a job, how to keep a job, essentially was the class that I taught. Um, and so it was everything from like resumes to interviews to what to wear to work and you know how just again, how to be successful. Um and I love it. Like I love thinking about what a good fit is going to be and like helping someone to figure out what a good fit for them would look like. And really, like again, it's I wanted to give back. Like I've always had this drive to do that. And obviously, like working in a in nonprofits and universities, education, like all of that kind of ties together. And so when I was looking for a job, like I I ultimately decided I wanted to get back into industry and I wanted to be a like I wanted to be a recruiter, like I wanted to get back into like a faster-paced life, but I didn't want to lose that values element. And that's like something that drew me to this company in particular was that it was very values-based that like the work that we do is really important. I think a lot of that comes from the top down too, right? Like, I think you can't just say, hey, we're hiring on values. Like the company has to reflect those values, it has to make decisions based on those values, it has to be like very holistic. You can't like everyone again, lots of companies say that they have values and that they're hiring on certain things, but not every company reflects those and the decisions that they make. And so I think when you're looking at companies and assessing them, like that's such a big part of it is like, okay, are you walking the walk? Um, so again, that was a very long answer to your question, but that's kind of how I think about it.

SPEAKER_01 29:00

And you also talked to me about um adaptability, like basically um, as you put it, uh moving where the industry is moving, or or I don't know if I said it exactly as as well as you did, but um, just basically you did talk about adaptability and and um what why is do you feel like that's so important as a town acquisition leader?

SPEAKER_00 29:20

Yeah, I mean, I think there's a few different reasons for that. I mean, I think, you know, we talked about like different hiring managers are gonna have different, you know, sets of requirements. They're gonna work differently, they're gonna react differently, they're gonna have different experiences with recruiting. Like I've worked with a lot of people who have been burned by recruiters in the past or who just like haven't felt supported by their talent function in the past. And so a lot of my job is like building that trust and being able to adapt to their style while still kind of holding on to what's really important in our process to be able to get them to a place where they realize that we're partners, right? We are not just here to execute on bringing in talent. We are here to partner with you in that to help you understand and develop your idea about what you need and want in this role, to calibrate where we need to do that. We're counselors, we're, you know, we're thought partners. We're not just here to do the work. And so, really thinking about the role that way, I think it's important to be adaptable. Like I you can't build trust if you're coming into every single conversation with the exact same approach and mindset. It just isn't gonna work for everyone. And so that's really important to us. Um, I also think like again, with AI, with new tools, what like this is an industry that is changing. I think every industry is changing. My husband's in marketing, like he's going kind of through the same, same evolution as we are, you know, in terms of yeah. And so I have always really felt it's important for me to be a first, no, maybe not a first adopter, maybe a second adopter of new technology. You know, when we had Claude rolled out at our company, I was like, okay, I am gonna go in there and I'm gonna build. You know, I am not an expert, I've never built anything, but I am going to to see what I can do and make. Um, and so I think that mindset is really important because like you can't, you're not gonna grow if you're not adapting and you're not gonna be able to have a like thriving career, I think, in recruiting, probably if you're not willing to adapt to what's changing. And I think like, yes, I want to adopt new tools, I want to leverage where we can, I want to level us up in every way that we can, but it all comes back to how do we keep things human? How do we like how do we keep those values while still like embracing what is changing and adapting here? So and then also like working in startups, like you have to, like the business is constantly changing, right? Like the priority shift. And if you can't keep up with the priority shifts, then you're not gonna be able to do your job effectively. So that's that's also super important.

Adaptability Without Losing The Human

SPEAKER_01 32:08

Yeah, it's like you have the fundamental values, right? There's also fundamental best practices and things that we remain the same, but then there's like there's the adaptabilities, like on top of that, like there's different ways we're looking for more productive or efficient ways to to execute, right? But the foundation is the same almost.

SPEAKER_00 32:28

It has to stay, yeah. You have to know what really matters to you and what you're not willing to budge on so that you can explore and test and do those things on top of it. But if you lose sight of like the core of your role and the core of what makes you good at your job, that's where things get a little bit tricky.

SPEAKER_01 32:48

Yeah, yeah. Oh, well said. And um, you know, I wanted to talk to you a little bit about like the future, right? And uh you've already touched on too, I think like we've discussed your obsession for the year, how you're thinking about developing uh professionally. I I want to just zoom out a little bit and talk about just holistically, right? Um just where you are uh in your career at this point, right? Like head of TA. Um you know, you're at you're at a place now where like things are are moving quickly, right? Like you have kids, you're in a leadership role, uh at a startup. So it's you know, you get there's a lot, a lot of things happening, right? And um, yeah, I'm curious just to get your perspective. And I know folks who are in similar roles to you tuning in, the similar places of life, it's like we're all thinking about how how are we trying to be the best version of ourselves and like how do we think about our own development and growth. And I was just curious if you wouldn't mind sharing just a little bit about how you think about your development at this point in your life, like more holistically, right? Like over the next few years.

SPEAKER_00 33:50

For sure. Yeah, I mean, I think to take a step back, like I have never had clear, like I've never been one of those people who's like, I am going to achieve X or this is my 10-year plan. Like I've never had a plan. Um, and I think in some ways that's a challenge, but I think in other ways it's allowed me to stay really, really open. Like my approach to my career and kind of what I counsel people to do as well, you know, in in the right circumstances, is like just be really open. Like say yes to opportunities, be willing to go outside of your job description a little bit, because every time I've gone outside of my job description in a way that like adds value, I have been able to level up my career and take on those responsibilities and grow my career. And so it's really always been about like find the problems that are interesting to you. Like I have this awful quality where I cannot keep my nose out of a problem if I think it's a problem and no one's solving it, right? Like I will just go and do it.

SPEAKER_01 34:51

So during the prep call, you said it the best way. It's like one of the cool, like best things I've ever heard. Like, I I would anyone I know, I'm gonna be like, say this on an interview. You just said I have an inability to see a problem and not to solve it.

SPEAKER_00 35:02

It I mean, it just it like drives me absolutely bonkers.

Growth By Solving Real Problems

SPEAKER_01 35:07

I have an inability to see a problem and not solve it.

SPEAKER_00 35:10

Yeah, and so fantastic. I mean, I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 35:14

Um, yeah, I would know, I would hire you on the spot if you were interviewing for one of my companies. I'd be like, yes, immediately.

SPEAKER_00 35:20

That's it.

SPEAKER_01 35:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:21

Um no, but you know, I think that that like quality is what has allowed me to like grow and develop. And so when I think about what's next for me, I don't think about like, okay, I want to be a chief people officer in five years. Like, I don't know. Do I? I don't know. It probably depends on the environment. It probably depends on the company, it probably depends on what's happening in my personal life, it probably depends on a lot of different things. Um, for me, I'm really focused on like how do I keep growing and learning and how do I keep solving new and interesting problems and being in an environment that allows me to do those things. And so if I it's it's kind of like the values-based stuff, right? Like if you can keep really focused on the things that matter to you and that allow you to be successful, you can change a lot of the stuff that's around it. You can iterate, you can try a new industry, you can do all these different things if you're able to stay really true to the core of who you are.

SPEAKER_01 36:22

Uh yeah, I I couldn't agree more. And I think it's really impressive what you've built and what you've been doing over the past several years. And it's really cool to see you continue to progress at home tap. And um, I'm really excited for you, like looking into the scope of your new role and the things that you're going to be doing. And it's been great having you on the show. I just want to say thank you so much for coming uh on the show, sharing a little bit about yourself and experiences growing up. It's like fascinating. I loved learning about uh growing up with your mom. She sounds like a really cool person. I think she should be our next guest on the show. Um, but uh um much more interesting than I ever will be. Well, we're both you guys come back on. Yeah, let's just do it. Um, but anyways, yeah, thank you so much for contributing and coming on today. I I really do appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 37:12

Of course. Thanks for having me. It's been a good time.

SPEAKER_01 37:14

Yeah.