112. Why You Need a Public Adjuster on Your Side with Andy Gurczak

Connect with the host:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brandon-e-jenkins/
Website: https://www.birchprosper.com/

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About the guest:
Andy Gurczak is the visionary Founder and CEO of AllCity Adjusting, a premier public adjusting firm dedicated to ensuring insured clients receive fair and equitable insurance payouts. With over a decade of leadership, Andy has propelled the company to impressive growth, skillfully managing multi-million dollar claims across both commercial and residential properties. Beyond his mastery in public adjusting, Andy is an accomplished property investor with a diverse portfolio spanning the Midwest. His deep expertise in sales, construction, and real estate enables him to lead one of the most efficient and effective public adjusting firms in the nation.

Connect with Andy Gurczak:
Website: https://allcityadjusting.com/
Email: andy@allcityadjusting.com

Episode Highlights:
✔️ The role of public adjusters in the claims process
✔️ Complexities in multi-family Insurance
✔️Impact of rising non-controllable costs 
✔️Understanding insurance limits
✔️Common areas of coverage exposure
✔️Pre-emptive engagement with public adjusters 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

So knowing what to say and how to say it, that's why it's that's why you want the PA involved right away. Because it's not only you're you know, it's not only just maximizing getting your claim negotiated and paid fairly, but it's making sure that it actually gets paid and not denied.

SPEAKER_00 0:18

How successful would you be if you had the blueprint for building wealth as a real estate investor or as someone who acquires small businesses? If you want to move the needle financially in your life, then you need to understand one thing the capital stack. I'm your host, Brandon Jenkins, and this is where your journey to financial freedom begins. Hello everyone, what's up, and welcome back to the Capital Stack. I'm your host, Brandon Jenkins. Um, you know, I read in uh an article recently that the average premium renewal rate for insurance, commercial insurance, increased by nearly 10% quarter over quarter. In fact, insurance is up 73% over the last five years. Um, so as an operator, that's the kind of thing that keeps me uh, you know, up at night because we're already facing pressure from some of the other um expenses and our non-controllable uh expenses and costs. What's worse is you know, you kind of mix that in with already um already steep hikes in insurance. We also have to be concerned with unfair insurance practices, okay. And so we're fortunate today to have a guest that can kind of help us identify ways to reduce our exposure and who's out kind of fighting for us. So we really appreciate that. Um, our guest today is Andy Gurchak. And um, Andy, how are you doing today, sir? And I'm doing great, and thank you for having me on. Absolutely. Thank you so much for being here. So, Andy is the founder and CEO of All City Adjusting, a successful public adjusting firm working to um fight unfair insurance practices. Um, he saved hundreds of thousands of dollars for his clients, both commercial and residential. Many of his firm's clients um even say that his work has helped change their lives for uh the better in many, many ways, many massive ways. And you know, I like to tell people that um, you know, a lack of knowledge and a lack of kind of uh connections to people who can help solve problems for you in this space can cost you a lot of money. And so having someone like you, Andy, kind of um on someone's team to help them maximize, you know, their profit and reduce exposure is huge. But Andy, why don't you kind of share some of your journey, some of your background um with us here today?

SPEAKER_01 2:21

Yeah, so uh we started the company, uh we funded the company about um we incorporated about 10 years ago. Um, and now we are licensed in about 31, I think 31 states as of today. Um, we specialize in large loss, uh, whether it's fire, uh large water losses, commercial. Most of our clients are going to be investors and landlords. Um, we have a whole staff here in the office. Uh, we traveled with our clients um through the losses, and we helped negoti not only negotiate and maximize the claim, but take that claim and help that client, uh, our client um lock that claim up from A to Z, right? Proceed the whole claim process, uh, advise them on building on anything else. So kind of the whole package, you know, um, but the most important is getting that claim paid and getting it uh paid fairly.

SPEAKER_00 3:10

That's outstanding. Thanks for kind of sharing that. And so, you know, just just to kind of step back for a moment, right? Right. So a lot of multifamily investors, especially people who who are who are fairly new to the space, they may not be fully aware with uh of what an adjuster does. So can you kind of explain your services just from a high level? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:27

Yeah, let me let first for those for the people that don't know. No, there's an insurance company, then the insurance company has their own adjuster, they have their own contractors, their own engineers, they have their own parties, right? And they all work for the insurance company. Um, and now you have public adjusters or private adjuster who works for the insured and advocates for the insured, right? Because otherwise the insured's kind of on its own. Everyone's kind of looking for the interest of the insurance company. So, whereas a public adjuster is licensed by the state to represent the insured in their claim.

SPEAKER_00 3:57

Yeah, see, I really appreciate that because that's that's that kind of um clarity is what is what we're we're we're needing. And so one question I have is kind of when, you know, so if I'm a I have a deal, something goes wrong, and I'm unsure, like when should I engage with you and your team to say, okay, you know, we need to talk.

SPEAKER_01 4:15

Yeah, so that that's that's one of the main questions we get. Um, the best thing is for investors or landlords, anyone in this space, is to get a public adjuster interview and have one on your team before something happens, right? If you can get a public adjuster to like for us, for our clients, we'll review their policies, we'll review their coverage, make sure there's no you know gaps or anything missing, or make sure they need to add any endorsements to their policies, kind of to help them in the future. They might never need our services, but we're we we're already contacted, we're on their list. If something does happen, we're ready to go, right? So then we're the ones inspecting the claim, whether like advising the client, should he file, should he not? And if he files, then we're starting from point A all the way to the end. Um, but for people, you know, when they say so the answer would be as soon as possible. Um, what happens a lot of the times we get calls when it's too late. Hey, I've been through this claim, you know, six months has gone on. This is what happened, and now we're getting the claim. And it's like, okay, we have six months of investigation to do. Like, what did you tell the insurance company? What did you give them? Um, and then the other side, you know, uh keep going further. Then we get calls where, hey, we've been denied. We get three to four calls a week where we've been denied. Well, if we look through that claim, where we can assess, say, man, if we were there from the beginning, this is a claim that gets paid, right? You just told them too much, and now you can't retract that.

SPEAKER_00 5:37

I see, I see. And at that point, uh, because that was my follow-on question.

SPEAKER_01 5:40

Sorry, I didn't want to, I didn't want to keep going.

SPEAKER_00 5:43

No, no, no, you're you're good. Please, we we have the time, so so good. Keep keep sharing. But I was I was going to ask really quickly, like you, because you mentioned that we can't retract it. And I'm I'm curious to know if there are certain scenarios where you can say, hey, well, listen, this is how it was actually supposed to be laid out. And so we we we we need to actually pull back and adjust.

SPEAKER_01 5:59

Yeah, so we've had claims where they've been denied, and then we were able to overturn them, right? Uh, for instance, the one we had where they classified under uh a sewer backup, which uh which had no coverage on the policy, comes to term there, it's a it's a clog, which whether it were clogged, then goes under the main policy. Uh, so then technically we're able to overturn that, get that paid. I forgot those for it went from denial to like 75,000. That was for an investor in uh Tennessee. So you're able to that one we're okay in because the insured wasn't too much involved, it was the management company. Uh, but in most instances it's hard, right? Because we get and it's like, why are you denied? And there's this two-page letter on why the claim is being denied. We can't go back and say, well, this never happened. This so it gets very difficult. Um, there are scenarios we can help. There's you know, it can go to legal, they can help, but it gets very tricky, right? Because you don't know what that insured said, and you don't know what the insurance company has, because they have a whole file built now from all these months on the insured.

SPEAKER_00 6:59

Yeah, yeah. That makes sense. And so, you know, one thing that um for me, when I when I hear like the term kind of unfair on uh insurance practices, uh I I think of two things because on one hand, it's like I think that there it's unfair, but it's because as the insured, I I didn't do some some of the legwork to make sure that things were in the policy that should be. But then there's on the other hand, I think of an intentional unfairness where you know there's like some doc, uh not documenting, but adjusting of documents so that it's not in my favor, things that are almost uh underhanded. Do you see that as well? Like, or is it mainly just unfair in in terms of a lack of knowledge and experience on the insured's part to make sure that the paperwork is done a certain way?

SPEAKER_01 7:42

But that's the whole point. You are the insured, right? You are you are just a consumer, just like myself. When I'm going to it's so it starts with the agent and the buying process, right? Because as a consumer, I have no clue what I'm buying. I just know I need insurance on my home. Technically, you it brand, if you're the agent, I tell you here, this is the home we have. You're supposed to kind of look into it, do your due diligence, and tell me what we need as for insurance, right? Because our agent that we work, for example, for our business or our properties is an agent that sits down, looks at all the risks, gets out like he was here at our new building, he's here at our new office, inspects it, tells, okay, this is what we need, this is what coverage you need. 1% of agents actually do that because the other 99 just say, okay, here's the coverage, and they don't ask anything else. Like, for example, state farm now for rental dwellings, ordinance, a lot, ordinance and law coverage is not uh not assigned to you right away. Meaning if you have a fire and the city comes in and says, Well, now you have to redo all this electrical and redo all this plumbing, that's building code that's they're the law and orange, they're requiring that. If you don't have that coverage, well, now you're out of money for that. And that used to be that used to come with with the with the with the landlord policy. So if if you're the consumer now, if if you don't, if you're buying if you're insuring your rental, for example, and you don't know that, you don't have then you're not getting that coverage unless the agent actually knows and makes sure to add it on. And it's a couple, and it's maybe five dollars a year, ten dollars a year.

SPEAKER_00 9:09

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 9:09

So it starts with the agent, so it starts with the agent and then goes into the claims uh process, which is a whole different, separate, you know, uh has nothing to do with the agent. And that process from it used to be where it used to have eye for coverage, now it seems every policy is eye for denial. How can we how can we delay this thing? How can we deny it? Like it seems like justices are looking for stuff in the policies just to use terms where they can just not pay the claims.

SPEAKER_00 9:35

Yeah, and that's unfortunate because it, you know, there are enough issues that we have to be concerned about just in in normal operations, but we you know, have to kind of and on top of getting adequate insurance, we have to kind of then make sure that everything's being done properly. Um, so it's just this this kind of extra thing that we have to be concerned about. You know, one of the things I always discuss and share with people, both on this show and in person, is that um uh, you know, you you you pay one way or another, you know, you either pay to like because like you mentioned, the best way to engage you guys is long before you need it. And so for me, that's kind of a pro tip because there's some people who are reactive instead of proactive. And my thought is well, if you don't take care of it going in, you're gonna pay. And unfortunately, on the back end, it's gonna hurt a lot more than if you go in and say, Hey, Andy, here's what I'm looking at right now.

SPEAKER_01 10:23

You know, and here's the here's the here's the four things. You know, you you own rentals, right? You you own a bunch of rentals, you call, you have a fire, or you have a water loss of one of your rentals. The insurance company goes, Okay, how long has that unit been vacant for? Ah, it's been empty for about five months right now. Well, now you're you're not covered because most policies say anything that's vacant over 60 days, there's no coverage for it, right? But what if you were doing what if that unit was under construction, but you didn't tell them that? You just told them it was vacant. Well, now that changes because if it was under construction, most of the time, if it's under construction, that considers it that it's that that's still occupied, then that coverage would actually be there for you. So knowing what to say and how to say it, that's why it's that's why you want the PA involved right away. Because it's not only you're you know, it's not only just maximizing getting your claim negotiated and paid fairly, but it's making sure that it actually gets paid and not denied. That's that's that's coming into the biggest thing right now.

SPEAKER_00 11:22

I see, I see. And let me ask you now, because I mentioned a few stats, um, a few figures there in in the intro. Are you also seeing that? Or like are people are are people starting to engage more with you guys given kind of the hikes that we're seeing um in insurance? Is it becoming more of an issue or is it really kind of more the same, uh, even though prices are have gone up?

SPEAKER_01 11:40

No, so we've done a good job marketing and building our uh our educate, like educating, uh whether it's through blogs and articles and videos online, so we could actually track how many people are looking for our services and different uh services in this uh in in in this area. And we're seeing growth every year as years go on, it's just it's huge. So more and more people are looking for public adjusters, assistance with claims and stuff like that because it's becoming more, they're seeing it more, but the the unfair thing is people notice it sometimes when it's too late. That's the unfortunate thing.

SPEAKER_00 12:12

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I I can imagine. Um, you know, that's a kind of one of those things again where it's just like if you have the right representation and connect with the right people ahead of time, then it becomes um easier. So let me ask you something too. So, you know, I'm curious to know some things that you're maybe seeing on a regular basis that um are misconceptions, right? Like what is common some of the common misconceptions or overlooked aspects um as far as property insurance concern that you've encountered among specifically multifamily investors and how do they address some of those misconceptions?

SPEAKER_01 12:44

Yeah, I think the misconceptions on that side from it's trusting the insurance and their vendors, right? And giving out all their money. So, like letting the insurance like handle that entire claim process, then bringing in their vendors in after them and having control of that whole claim and how much they pay out and what gets done, right? Because now it goes back to them trying to go retail and kind of the lowest amount to fix it. Because that's not, excuse me, that's not what we're discussing. We're discussing, we're discussing idemn, right? To to give you back what you had before. You know, anything less is bad faith, anything more is illegal. So for us to come in, it's that misconception that they're gonna all take care of you and that the agent's on your side. The agent has long been uh disconnected from the insurance claims process. They have no idea what's happening with the claims process, they're there to sell the policy and that's it. And then you have the adjusters and everyone else working for the insurance to again underpay it. They're not there, you know. They're trying to, again, maybe not intentionally, but the process is what's what guidelines can we set to pay less on this claim? Because the more money that stays with us, the better. So if we put a hundred thousand dollar reserve for this claim, but we only pay out at 80,000. Well, that's 20,000 that we didn't pay out of the reserves. So you people have to start stop thinking that, you know, stop letting them control the claim process and let someone else get you paid, like get us, like what we say is for our clients is let us get you paid. And once it's negotiated and settled, why don't you then get estimates and then see how much lower they are or where they're where they're coming in, then letting giving out 100% of your claim, everything to the insurance company and their vendors and all their whole team.

SPEAKER_00 14:24

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Okay, and and I think you're you're 100% correct in that there is this, you know, tendency to just trust that the process is going to be taken care of, that the agents on my side, and you're right, they're so far removed from it. It usually by the point that we need to have that conversation that they have no idea kind of where it's at. Um, and so so that also kind of then begs the question, you know, what's two things. One is can you can you just for the benefit of the listeners explain the renewal process? And then also um, my question would be how how can we be proactive then as operators to get PAs involved, even with that, like just the just standard kind of kind of renewal process.

SPEAKER_01 15:02

Yeah. So we're you're you're you're discussing um your questions renewing policies, right? Renewal policies? Correct. So whether it's renewals or new policies, again, we're not agents, we're not advocating, we're not uh interested in selling policies, that's not our thing, but we look at policies probably more than any agent's ever looked. Because we we're always trying to find coverage, finding terms. So the best thing is we do a free clip, we do a free policy review. If you if Brandon, you reach out and say, Andy, I have these multi-units, these are the policies. Great, send everything over, we'll have the team look through it and we'll let you know, hey, you have coverage here. Hey, make sure you watch out. If this happens, then you're not covered here. We go through all that, right? That's kind of how we build that relationship with our clients, right? And then they might never call us, and we might review their policies for the next 10, 15 years, and they might never call us because they might never have a claim. But we at least get them ready that if they do, they're aware of you know what to expect and make sure they have the right coverage.

SPEAKER_00 15:58

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Because that education piece, because you mentioned that earlier as well, is that that's a part of what your firm does is to make sure that people are educated on that, um, on all of this so that they're better prepared. And Kate Kim, can you kind of actually speak on that just for a moment? Just share kind of a bit of the education that your firm does and um and kind of what services you provide in that respect as well.

SPEAKER_01 16:19

Yeah, so if you if you you know, Google also be adjusting, um, any of our adjusters, we've done videos for uh for consumers on on what you know what the difference in different terms are in policies, when to file a claim, what what fees to expect from PAs, kind of everything. Um, we've we're trying to educate and throw as many videos and and articles online because that's people don't know about PAs and they don't know about this industry. So we're at least trying to let them know and make them aware, hey, there is someone there that's supposed to be on your side that no one's gonna tell you about. You know about an attorney, but usually you don't call an attorney until it's really, really serious, right? Yeah, but there's someone else, a private adjuster, just like a great accountant and good attorney, there's one someone there that people don't know about. So we're just trying to push that and and at least put our word, you know, name out there so people know.

SPEAKER_00 17:09

Yeah, and that's very much needed and very much appreciated. And let me let me ask you now, this is kind of a you know, we're still kind of staying on the topic of multi-family, but are you seeing um are there any differences in the types of you know practices that you typically um see or are called in to help sort out in the multifamily space that's unique to multifamily, or are you kind of seeing this across commercial real estate, regardless of the asset class?

SPEAKER_01 17:33

So with multifamilies, one thing that's that's interesting that gets very messy is when you have when there's an association, let's say Brandon, you own there's a multi-unit, 20 units, you own five or 10 units, but then there's also some separate unit owners. Now there's an association insurance. That's when it gets really tricky, right? Because you have your policies, the association has its policy, but then there's also the bylaws, right? In some states, the bylaws supersede the policies, in some states, it's the opposite. Those scenarios are very, very, you have to really have, you know, uh, even that with not a PA, an attorney to review those, because that gets very tricky. So those are probably when it comes to multi-units, those get um, those some of the stuff we see. Um it just gets you obviously then need the more experienced PA than just say someone that's you know does some small claims roofing and stuff, because now you're getting into a whole different ballpark.

SPEAKER_00 18:30

Yeah, that makes sense. And so let me ask you too about, and this is about specific areas of exposure in the multifamily space. Like, are they um just with within kind of the the the realm of things that are insured, like what are some of the areas where you're seeing a lot of exposure and multifamily that just tends to kind of eat up, you know, costs for owners and operators?

SPEAKER_01 18:50

Yeah, I I think roofs uh with the whole roofs and you know, roofing claims and storm damage, and now they're higher deductibles. So what we're seeing now is they're taking away less and less coverage for any exterior stuff on these multi-units and jacking up these high deductibles or having all these exclusions. So basically, you're only covered for if there's a fire. So it's it's getting more and more harder, it seems, for for these large units to ensure they're outside of their properties. Um, and if they do, it comes with a really hefty deductible. So, like literally, you have to have again a total loss, like total fire, then then it's just they're taking away less coverage. And it's only a few insurance that are trying to provide insurance for those large, uh, large uh facilities.

SPEAKER_00 19:34

Yeah, yeah. And that's that's that's that's pretty frustrating too for um, she knows it's kind of uh uh it makes me kind of wonder what the what the solution is, or even if there is one. I mean, um, you know, it's just kind of I guess that's the direction things are headed, but at some point it be it's it'll reach a tipping a tipping point where it's like okay, this is no longer um this no longer makes financial sense.

SPEAKER_01 19:54

Uh yeah, we have a we have a excuse me, we have a client that's self that has so many news, they're gonna just self-insure themselves.

SPEAKER_00 20:01

Well, can you share some details about about that?

SPEAKER_01 20:04

I'm curious to see what your yeah, they they've discussed it because um there was a claim um that we were gonna file for them. Uh before they filed, they wanted to uh they're getting in the process. I don't know all the details, but all they've told us, hey, before we file, we want to we're gonna self-insure, so we want to get to the point where we're ready to self-insure and how they're doing that process and how it's gonna work. I don't yeah, those I'll have to get more details when I actually speak with them uh more in depth.

SPEAKER_00 20:29

Well, that's that's really interesting. Yeah, I mean that's an interesting point because I wonder if that's kind of the direction of people they're heading in. So let me ask you because you you mentioned that you're kind of in the um uh Chicago area or Indiana, um kind of up there. Are are you seeing different like issues that really, really stand out uh depending on where you are in the country? Kind of what where are some of the major problem areas? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:51

Yeah. So we, I mean, between California and New York, uh like we're 31 states. So we see it. Um it kind of the same, um, kind of the same deal and the same issues pretty much everywhere. The only thing is in some states, they're a little bit more like in Florida, they're like, well, if they don't pay, there's you know, it could go to legal, they're a little bit more cautious on everything. They send more paperwork, same with California. Whereas Midwest, the laws, the consumer, there's really no much, not much consumer protection. So they kind of do what they want, right? That's they're more on, hey, I could deny you because there's a likely chance you won't get an attorney or get any legal help. So it that that's what I would say. I think the claims the way the way they're handling claims is kind of pretty much the same across the the across the country. It's it's uh it's the laws and the consumer protection laws in each state that kind of makes it uh they again gives gives the clients a little bit more protection. So they're more lenient to pay a claim uh instead of some other states.

SPEAKER_00 21:51

Okay, okay. And and I'm gonna do something really really quick if it's okay. And I want to kind of step step back for a moment. And um, I'm curious to know how how you kind of got. Involved like in this and how this became something that you're this your your passion. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:04

Yeah, I was uh I was in construct. I mean, a bunch of stuff I did, but I was in construction finally, um, had my own uh company, met a uh uh a PA that was in this industry for 40 years, um, and then kind of talked to him. And then for two years, I kind of followed up with him. And hey, can you help me out? And then after two years, he finally said, okay, you know, uh, I'm retiring, I'll mentor you, I'll teach you the business. And so I got four years of knowledge from him and all the knowledge he had from previous PAs. Um, all that in about like three to five years, I I grasped all that knowledge, so um, which you can't get anywhere in a book or anywhere else. Uh, there was first hand knowledge. Um, and then kind of the rest of his history, you know, then incorporated the company and kind of been scaling it since uh since day one.

SPEAKER_00 22:47

Yeah, kind of had you drinking from a fire hose, man.

SPEAKER_01 22:50

Yeah, I mean, the first yeah, the first uh couple years was rough, obviously. Starting out, kind of learning. There's so much, you know, different stuff. Even to this day, I you know the one thing that's that's fun about this industry or the business I I enjoy is it's never this, there's no constants, always something new. Each claim is different, the way it's handled. It's you know, people-to-people business for now still. I know AI and and technology is coming into play, but it's still a person to person, so each claim gets handled uh differently.

SPEAKER_00 23:16

Yeah, yeah, no, that that makes a lot of sense. Um so so you know, one thing that I'm kind of curious to know is um it just in terms of you know, so so if I have an issue and I and I kind of give you a call, say, hey, Andy, and you know, can you and your team kind of have a look at this? What's the typical kind of like the compensation tend to be like for yeah, for PA?

SPEAKER_01 23:37

Yeah. So when it comes to reviewing claims or reviewing policies, there's no cost, right? We review claims all the time. So if you called us, said, Hey, I did have a claim, I didn't know about PAs. Um, can you re make sure I was it was fair or this was paid fair? No problem. We'll look it over all the time. Um, and then when it comes to us to handling claims, it's 10, it's usually 10% uh contingent, uh, what we recover. So whatever the final uh final settlement is, it's 10% of that final settlement. And then that fee can go down on larger claims and it could go up on uh more complicated claims or claims we come in the middle of. Um when you come in the middle of a claim and it's been ongoing for you know months and months, and there's been an amount paid, but it's not fair, but there's maybe a small amount we can still get, then our fee might be higher, but it would be only on anything extra we would get for that client. So there's different ways we structure it. As long as it's fair to our client, um, we know there's you know our fees in there, and when we bring value to the client, then uh then it works out. Then that's kind of how we structure, but usually starts with flat 10% fee.

SPEAKER_00 24:40

Okay, you you ever had any situations where um you know you you and your team, you kind of go in and and you're looking to sort things out and they try and hide things from you or make it difficult for you to to do what you need to do, the insured or the insurance? The insurance, not the the insured, the insured would love to have you're not gonna be. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:57

Well, no, we we've had claims where the insured didn't tell us the full story, too. Oh, you come in and then the adjust, you know, the insurance adjuster is like, Hey, did you know they had a claim three years ago and all this was on that claim? We're like, no, but thanks for letting us know. So let us send uh a nice letter that we're withdrawing from this, yeah. Uh with the insurance, with the insurance companies, yeah, they withhold the information all the time, like engineer reports or any other reports, you know, saying they won't release that information. So it happens all the time. Um, but you know, a little uh a little uh uh a little hard work and and we get it done. We'll get what we need.

SPEAKER_00 25:33

A little bit of elbow grease, and you can get it.

SPEAKER_01 25:35

Yeah, that's it. There you go.

SPEAKER_00 25:38

No, that's good. That's good, man. Um well, so so let me ask you like, do you have any examples of of uh you know a story that kind of was like a almost like a not a case study, but something that just maybe caught you off guard? You know, you you go into a situation, you're like, wow, this is kind of crazy. Like, what you got any any stories there?

SPEAKER_01 25:54

We had one, uh, young investor too. His uh his mentor told him, Hey, have a public adjuster on your team. He had a fire, about a uh, I think it was a 16 unit, about a 16 unit called us, had a fire insurance company was uh giving him 300,000. He had an ACV only policy. Um, so when we called the adjuster or we filed, you know, when we got involved and we sent our contract or letter of rep to the insurance company, the adjuster reached out and said, you know, why is he hiring you guys? I'm like, Well, what do you mean? Well, I paid the limits. Well, you did pay limits, but because he's got an actual cash value policy, he's only getting 300,000 because you're shorting him 250 because you depreciated 250 and he can't recover that. And we knew that the damage was way more extensive than 500,000, but because the adjuster knew that it was limited, he just wrote to that limit. So when we got in, we were our estimate was like eight something. So by the time they depreciate everything, we ended up getting limits for the insured, so another 250,000. Uh, in a scenario where you know the adjuster's like, why is he even hiring you guys? You guys, this is all good. I already paid limits. No, you didn't pay limit, you paid limits on an actual cash value policy.

SPEAKER_00 27:00

So wow, so that is kind of good. So the benefit for the benefit of the listeners, by the way, what are what are limits?

SPEAKER_01 27:07

So limits are the limits you uh the set limits of the insurance gives you at the time of uh signing up for your policy and purchasing a policy, those are the limits they give you for whether it's coverage A for the structure, for personal property, for loss of use, for all different uh uh for for all different coverages that you have.

SPEAKER_00 27:24

Gotcha, gotcha. That that's that's that's an interesting story. I mean, because I'd imagine that you probably see that quite a bit then where people, you know, whether either intentionally or not, you know, they're kind of uh you know, they're they're misrepre representing it. And I'm kind of curious. So you guys do both uh residential and commercial. And do you see you see kind of more uh do you think the residential space is a little more nuanced than commercial, or are they really more or less the same, just different scale?

SPEAKER_01 27:49

You know what? I I will tell you this on residential, it's different. On residential, when it comes into the storm damage and you know, the storm chasing and all that, they usually have, you know, I would say less experience uh adjusters and people out of college and stuff like that. When it comes to large loss residential fires uh or large water losses, they usually tend to send out more experience adjusters and same with commercial. So for us dealing with large loss, it's usually more experienced adjusters. So the claim handling is a little bit better. Uh, I would like to think at least, uh, but not always, but they do send more experienced people. That's one thing that we do see.

SPEAKER_00 28:28

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_01 28:29

And I'll tell you what, now they're going away from even sending out adjusters. Now they're sending third-party uh contractors and engineers, anyone that basically can do all their work for them. And then they could say, well, he, you know, if they could just push the blame off on them. So it's kind of where it's going. So they're kind of eliminating that those field adjusters and kind of letting these third party do all their work. That they're not adjusters, they're not licensed. But again, well, he's an engineer, well, he's an architect. You know, we just had a roofing inspection, and we're like, Well, are you a the insurance company sent this guy out? They said we we assumed he was an engineer. Turns out, no, I'm not an engineer, I'm just an architect. So we're looking at a roof, a large uh tile roof in Florida, and we're meeting with an architect to see whether he can repair this roof or not. So think about that. So we're trying to explain to an architect how this roof, because he's saying he can repair it. He's never done any construction, but he's an architect. So you you you know how do how do you how do you argue your point? How do you, you know, he's already set in his mind, even though he even though he can't do what he says or perform the repairs, he could put in his report, and that report, if it goes to litigation, well, he was an architect, right? Yeah, so the jury or someone who's looking at the peers are gonna look at well, he's an architect, right? So that's that's kind of that's something we see a lot.

SPEAKER_00 29:51

Yeah, yeah, that that's an interesting point right there. Because I because so I wonder what the what the rationale is. It's like on one hand, um it's on paper, it's it might sound like something that would make sense, which is why that the last point you just made is the jury, they'll hear architect and they'll think, oh, okay, that means he knew what he's but it's like well, he actually doesn't know what he's talking about, not directly. Um, so I don't know how how to how how do you square that, right? Because on one hand, it's the uh ideally you if you could arrange to have the person look at the work who can actually potentially repair the work, although there's a I would think there's conflict of interest there.

SPEAKER_01 30:28

Um, but I'm wondering why skip the adjuster and go straight to that to that uh it's easier, it's even it's easier to say, well, that it's an engineer, and if the engineer says something, it's like God wrote it. It's like it's hey, it's all set in stone and it can't be changed. That's kind of how they're looking at it. That whatever the engineers say it goes, and that's not the case, right? You know, in that tile roof scenario, we had the licensed roofer that that specializes in tiles there, and he re looked at all every no, he was there and said, No, I cannot fix this, I cannot fix this, this has to be replaced, right? Because if we're gonna go to bat, if we're gonna go to fight for our client, we're gonna bring our experts in as well. And our experts are gonna trump their experts every time that I'm that I'm sure of because they're using, I mean, some of these guys that come out, they're like, Oh, I'm a professional engineer. Okay, how long? Oh, for five years, or I just got hired. Great. So you read you read a book about roofing or fires, and now you're here.

SPEAKER_00 31:26

Yeah, now you're a specialist.

SPEAKER_01 31:28

Exit now. You're a specialist, so yep.

SPEAKER_00 31:31

All right, well, dude. So does the argument of it being a conflict of interest has that ever come up where it's like, well, okay, you you got this guy here, he really doesn't know what he's talking about, but he's also offering to do the work that he's in that he's kind of inspecting.

SPEAKER_01 31:44

All the time, but they get up, they get away with it. I mean, all the time. You know, we just had one, uh, a large fire. This is in Illinois, and the adjusters like we asked them, we don't want to go to appraisal, so we asked we had a big uh delta, and we asked if they could bring in a consultant because that leaves our appraisal card kind of that avenue. If we still have some uh differences, we can go down the appraisal road. I don't want to go into that, but we asked if they could bring in a consultant, and usually if they bring in a consultant, usually their contractors usually we come to an agreement with them uh because they always see our side. So this uh the justice is like, Well, I'm gonna bring this contractor from Atlanta. We're like, We're we're talking about a six or four unit in Illinois. What are we gonna bring a guy from Atlanta for? Uh well, they're a GC for us. I'm like, are they a GC in Illinois? Well, no, but they can get their license. Okay. Now they're talking about bringing, and they can whatever they say they're gonna do, they can do the work. And he had the insured CC in the email as if pushing this guy, hey. Well, if they say they can do it, they can do all this work for you, you know. That kind of BS. We see it all the time. So, but we, you know, again, we've been doing this for so long. We always advise our clients what to expect. Hey, you're gonna see this, you're gonna see this, this is gonna happen, you're gonna get a call behind our backs, trying to talk to you, don't you know, and then everything happens that we say, and they're like, holy smokes, everything you said came to fruition. We're like, I know, we've been through this.

SPEAKER_00 33:07

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so so that kind of then begs the question, right? Because like, what are some of the for you, what are some of the key differences then between working with um a public adjuster? And you've already you've already touched on some of them, but I want to kind of highlight them. Um, the key differences between working with the PA and solely relying on the insurance company to handle it. Like, I think that's really what we've been talking about the whole time. But if you had to summarize it, like what are some of the key differences between them?

SPEAKER_01 33:29

Think about if you're going to court and the the the person that's uh that's that's suing you has their attorney, and that attorney is representing them, and he's also representing you. Yeah, that's that's honestly how what you're doing. You're you're having the company insurance adjuster come out and he's working for the insurance company, getting paid by them, getting bonuses, everything by the insurance company, but he's also there looking out for you. How can he represent both parties? That's why there is a designation of a of a public adjuster to represent the insured.

SPEAKER_00 33:59

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:00

That's how you have to look at it. Like you have to have, you know, um, you're gonna trust the the the IRS accountant to come, or are you gonna have your own account your books? Like you gotta you you have to have your own. So that's that's in any in any case, right? Um, you have to people have to stop worrying about, you know, especially with investors and landlords, the the uh the outcome or the um getting a PA, the benefit outweighs the fee, whatever you pay, even if it's a larger fee than 10%. It's the benefit is gonna outweigh in not just helping that claim, not just getting the claim paid, like maximizing it, but just making sure that claim gets paid. Like we just had an inspection where an adjuster comes out and he's like, Andy, I was here two years ago. I already paid for all this. I'm like, son of a gun. The guy didn't, you know, the client didn't tell us. So then we talked to the adjuster. I we knew some same people. He's like, I'm like, what can we do here? I'm like, if you can get this paid and this, then we're just gonna we'll be happy. And he's like, All right, I can do that.

SPEAKER_02 35:01

Cool.

SPEAKER_01 35:01

Right. So just being there and knowing that just you're talking to him, that claim got paid. So it it outweighs the benefit of having a DA, just like a good accountant, good attorney. You have you have to you have to build that team, and and those people are are are in return if they they're gonna bring value to you. Yeah, a lot of people get hung up on fees and what you have to pay before they start doing the math in their head. Well, I have to pay this, if I have to pay this, or that guy's gonna make this, instead of thinking about the long term.

SPEAKER_00 35:33

Yeah. Again, because it like I said earlier, it's like you pay one way or the other, you know. And so for people who are getting caught up um too much on the wrong thing, and then they they they miss something, or they don't have the right uh representation, right person in their corner, they end up paying on the back end.

SPEAKER_01 35:48

So yeah, we have a we had a claim, we had a claim. Uh this was in uh Philadelphia, uh Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, sorry, Pittsburgh. And uh uh they had a service line endorsement, which means that if your suit if the if the roots go in and break up the the the sewers, there's a ten thousand dollar limit for that. Most policies don't have that. The agent actually threw that endorsement in there, which was great. So when they called the claim in, the adjuster said, Well, no, that we don't pay for we don't pay for any drainage pipe that's not covered. And he's right, but he didn't read the full policy, and there was an endorsement, so then we went back, got the claim maxed out, plus you know, they the deductible gets waived because it goes over limits, and the client got paid enough to get the job done, right? But they came in right away with hey, you're no, this is not covered.

SPEAKER_00 36:34

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:35

So um, again, knowing knowing building that team and having someone on your team, whether again for investors, the tip again, uh you know, me and my wife, we invest, we have our own properties. You know, we have a team, whether it's contractors, we have a guy for this, we've built a team for everything.

SPEAKER_00 36:51

Yeah, I I was just gonna kind of touch on that again. I think that's the important point, like you mentioned, because a couple of times you mentioned there, just like a CPA, just like an attorney, just like a property manager, you know, you have to be a part of the team and assemble the right people who can help you um, you know, take care of their piece that they specialize in so that you can focus on the things that are important to you as well. So um I think that's uh very powerful, you know. I think it's very useful in especially, especially in a time like I said, where you know, we're just seeing uh insurance just go through the roof. Non-controllable costs are really crushing deals nowadays. And so it's it's very um important to have a greater, tighter hold on this. Um, and and I think it's outstanding. So let me ask you, um, I'm sorry, go ahead. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:33

No, I was just gonna mention that, you know, I think with public justice, what happens is people don't think about calling one or or interviewing one or even having one, you know, on in their phone book because they're not thinking something's gonna happen to their property. You buy insurance, you kind of never think something's gonna happen, and then something one thing happens, another thing happens. That's when they're like, oh shoot, like what do I do? And that's when they kind of start looking uh and finding us. But you know, and something we're trying to do is build a uh a service thing for management companies and and investors uh of kind of like having us on retainer, um, trying to present something. We're actually gonna go into the uh management company expo here in uh Navy Pier in Chicago, um, and gonna be presenting something to we're still working on all the details to management companies to these large investors of hey, here's our thing, everything we do, right? You pay a fee, we look over policies, we do all this, our fee is is then less once we actually get working on a claim. So just kind of making sure we're aware in those management, then like preparing their staff for claims. Like if something does happen, what do we do? Who do we call? Which vendors are coming out right away? So having all that in place. Um, so we're just trying to kind of get uh get ahead of the you know, get ahead of the game.

SPEAKER_00 38:44

Yeah, yeah. And I think that's important to kind of have a plan ahead of time because I'd imagine that trips people up as well. It's like, well, you know, something goes wrong, and even if they have, you know, even if they've engaged beforehand, you know, knowing what to do when things go wrong is also important because some, you know, to avoid missteps. Um, so I think that's very having an action plan almost very important. Um, so so we're getting close to to close uh here, Andy, but I wanted to ask you, um, you know, and this is very specific kind of to you, kind of so if someone wants to get engaged with you guys now, um, you know, how can they do so? How can they get kind of plugged in and um and and kind of begin learning from you guys so that they can potentially use you guys uh in their in their deal?

SPEAKER_01 39:28

Anyone can literally Google us at all Google allcity adjusting.com or just all city adjusting, YouTube, um, Facebook. We're kind of everywhere online. Um, for your listeners, I'll leave them, you know, still able to provide my number for any of your listeners. They want to reach out, text uh text me personally with questions about policies or claims. Uh, my direct line is uh 708-655-4186. Um, again, they can reach out directly. Um, if they want to go to the website and contact us like that, that's no problem. But that's a direct line to me for uh any of your listeners.

SPEAKER_00 40:03

All right, awesome, awesome. I'll include that in the show notes. And when is the uh when is the convention coming up that you mentioned?

SPEAKER_01 40:09

Uh November 7th. Uh it's one it's one day. It's I there I they're looking at about 2,000 attendees. I think it's one of the biggest ones here. So we're looking forward. I I know there's a lot of uh interest in public adjustment from management companies, so we're looking forward to meeting and uh kind of presenting something um to kind of you know help out and and and get ahead and help these management companies and these investors.

SPEAKER_00 40:31

All right, all right, that's outstanding. Well, listen, Andy, it's been um absolutely a pleasure speaking with you. I've learned some things myself as well, so this is really a useful discussion. I know the listeners have, and um just thank you so much for for your time.

SPEAKER_01 40:44

Thanks, Ben. Thank you so much for having me on. Appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 40:47

All right, as always, thank you so much for tuning in to the show today, brought to you by Bridge Prosper. If you enjoyed today's episode and you'd like to learn more about commercial real estate investing, please like, subscribe, and share. And we'll see you again next week. I'm Brandon Jenkins, and this is the Capital Stack, where we help you learn, apply, and prosper.