Messy Designed Life
Life is messy - if we do it right. Let's dive in and get dirty as we examine who we are, why we do what we do and how we can learn to better enjoy this 'human thing'. Together, we'll explore the power and magic of intentionally designing your life, your home and your self as Neuro-Linguisitic Programming (NLP) meets Interior Design meets Armchair Philosophy.
Messy Designed Life
Ep. 12: Making Space for Who You're Becoming, Part 2
In Part 2 of Making Space for Who You're Becoming, Laura and I continue our deep dive into the power of intentional design—and this time, we’re talking about the real magic that happens when you claim your space. When you fully own your environment and align it with who you want to become, you open up new possibilities in every area of your life. We explore how making bold design choices can help you trust yourself and embrace growth in the 'now' at the same time that you're fueling your future self.
Hello, you lovely soul you. I'm Mandy straight and this is Messy, Designed Life. A podcast that explores the power and magic of intentionally designing your life, your home and yourself. Explore all that is this messy designed life.
Mandy
I'm curious, when you say that our conversations and our work together pushed a little further, where do you think that would have landed or what do you what do you think? Tell me more about that extra stretch
Laura
How that worked or what you did that helped?
Mandy
That and like what do you think the difference would be without that and and what do you think happened between us to…?
Laura
I don't even want to think about it. Don't make it reality.
Mandy
I like it. That's a valid response. That's a valid response.
Laura
Right. I mean, it just feels like it would have been so stressful. I mean literally I'd be like, wouldn’t have been this. It would have been so stressful, it would have taken so much more time. I wouldn't have the results that I loved. So that's, that's one piece of it. And then the other piece is like when, so when you were talking, all I saw was drab. So I wouldn’t have this purple wall. I wouldn't have had these pink curtains with gold flecks. And so part of it was what you brought to the process. But you know, I've got these great curtains, the Anthropologie curtains in my, you know, healing room.
Mandy
Yeah. Gorgeous. Well, and I have to say too, now, now that we've worked together three times, I guess with pieces in between. You bring so much clarity to understand. “Ohh yes I I want to come and I have considered what I want out of this.” Right? So I think you and I work so much faster because you've asked these questions of yourself and I can dig deeper with you. But it's both. The fact that you've asked them of yourself already, and then you want to understand them more as we have the conversations you're willing to dive in. What, how did you say it earlier? You had to. You had to like get in and get the things done you had to do. You didn't say tedious things, so that's coming from me because I don't like doing those either. But you used a different word.
Laura
Yeah, yeah, it's the details.
Mandy
The details. So you you were willing to dive into the details of what it - the really dive into the feeling details about how you wanted to feel which isn't always comfortable because you have to question who who you think what you what am I trying to say - you have to question in that process how you think you're supposed to feel versus how it might be possible to feel that it might feel scary because it's so different and unfamiliar and big?
Laura
Yes. So you know the other thing that I actually want to acknowledge about you that is super helpful that not everyone - that's why working with you worked and why even some of the other general contractors we interviewed didn't work - was because I can get influenced if someone’s super, “This is what you need to do” You know, I mean we almost remodeled the back of the house instead of the kitchen which would have been the wrong thing. Because of the contractor, right? And and I was starting, I just kind of went with that wave. Their wave was so strong that I just went with it. So what's different about you is that you have this way of being like, “I think this is what would be really good, but I'm not going to push that on you.” But my excitement, I don't know, you bring an excitement and a resonance but then allow enough space for me to have a “no” and it's not personal.
Mandy
Yeah, yeah. No, no. And you know what? That was a process for me to learn. I.
Laura
Mandy
It it was and honestly, it wasn't maybe as hard it wasn't as hard as it could have been because I was so clear that I'm not doing this to make an artistic statement. That's not why I like doing this. I'm not trying to be like, “This is a Mandy straight house. Look at that.” Who cares? Who cares? About I don't, that is not my driver.
So it quickly became clear I would, clients would say no and I'd be like, why am I upset about that? I'm not gonna live in this house, right. So the more I just kept refocusing. The important part is that they feel fulfilled. Each client is like, yes, that's what I'm going for. And the more we can tap into that “Yes” for you, for each client. The more I can help tap into that, the better they are at hearing it. Yeah, right. And so I feel like I'm not. You said I'm decisive. I don't feel like I make any decisions at all. I feel like I asked a lot of questions and I listen not just to the words.
Laura
Yeah, and I think…
Mandy
And can we feel that thread so that we can both follow it better.
Laura
That’s right, that’s right. It's interesting. Now that we're talking too and I, I just want to emphasize your ability to hone in on what people aren't saying is is pretty top notch and remarkable and magical so that, that's a huge gift that I think you bring. The other thing that I'm being reminded of, the one area we really had to work at was the bedroom.
Mandy
Laura
Remember how many times it was like? Oh, not quite. Not quite. And you really held space for me to - which can be hard for me - to say, “I don't think it's quite there yet.” And then we and then all of a sudden that one meeting.
Mandy
Yes, when both of us, I'm doing this like messy collage on the screen and we were both like ohh that one, yeah.
Laura
That one, that one, that's it. And then we, like, knew it, it was so clear in our bodies. Yeah.
Mandy
I love that moment. Like that's like its own specific, wonderful little natural high of, like, the moment where the client and I are like ohhh, and you get goosebumps. Yes, it's that's transcendental, I think.
Laura
Yeah, it really was. It really was, especially because we we like we're we're circling the drain and we were so close, you know. And I had a hard time kind of communicating.
Mandy
Yeah. Uh-huh.
Laura
Yes. And knowing what I wanted, I should say. And so through, I mean, we went through the creative process together.
Mandy
Yeah. Yeah. Because you don't. And this is what I love too is I think it's easy. I know when I'm the client of other things, I feel like I'm supposed to have answers. No, this is what I want. And I don't have any problem holding space for the client to be like, not quite. Let me figure it out. What's not feeling right? I don't know yet, OK, right. Like, that's cool, I think.
Laura
Mandy
That's part of the fun, although I'm aware it's not as fun for the clients, but I think it's part of the fun to allow that space. That’s a weird way to say that, why do I think that's fun? I do. I think it's fun. It's like this place of possibility that, that is so dissonant.
Laura
Mandy
But then it's like waiting. It's like I don't do EDM music. I don't like it, but it's like when they like the the music is building like and then it drops and, yes.
Laura
That was so good. You know the other example that's coming to me that you you were really clutch on was and this was the only time with the general contractor where I went, got a little *rawr* was when I asked very clearly upfront about we need to be really clear about the wood wall in the kitchen because that was so important to me. And then, and then it was sort of last minute and we had to pivot really fast and you found the slat walls that are.
Mandy
Laura
Stunning. And got sold out weeks later?
Mandy
Yeah.
Laura
It was, and it was even a better solution that fit better in the space.
Mandy
So I, it really did. So it was more of I feel like I resonate with what you said about what you're doing in your job of or. Or maybe you said it during the process and when you were starting your job, OK, what needs to happen here? Right. Like, there are those moments of like. But I think design only works… Like there are natural limitations in anything in any and every single thing we do in life. There are natural limitations. So the the possibility happens when we say where are they and instead of saying that's a block, say that's helping direct forward, what's going to work. So OK, the solution we had didn't work. What, what are our parameters and what can work and get really excited about the possibility. And you were saying that's so great, because you were saying that's the thing you leaned into, in your work and in the process.
Laura
Ohh for sure for sure. And I I remember when you messaged me. Because I was. You know, I wanted to hold them accountable to not listening to me and then having a rush timeline and then that potentially impacting the project which it didn't. And I remember that you messaged me you're like, “I think I have an idea.” And I was like, OK.
Mandy
Yeah, yeah. Uh-huh. I mean, yeah, it's. It's so fun. I don't know. Limitations, make things fun, and I don't lean into that enough. I think, right. Like I'm not good about making myself get out of bed earlier.I kind of like push it off and but if if … You know, there's been so much said about limitation.
Laura
Well, I mean it's a big thing that you know. And so it's interesting, actually reflecting back on that process of kind of the male and the chaos of some of those things and really getting into the details of things because I'm still trying to do that right now, even more even more of staying really solution focused and yeah and just kind of continuing to find those areas where, yeah, it's like it's this is how I'm showing up even how I want to be. Which is kind of the other piece that really made a difference for me in the house honestly was working with an organizer.
Mandy
Yes, I you talked about that and I am going to jump on some of that in my own situation because I need to and to your point about having somebody else to help with that thing outside of the problem, I need a little bit of that. Like I need to just get somebody to be like, no, no, just shed shed that thing. It's OK.
Laura
Yep, Yep. Yeah. And her. She's so logical. So a lot of the systems that she's built, they've all stayed.
Mandy
That's amazing. You know? So it really was an investment.
Laura
Yeah, that has stuck. That's amazing.
Mandy
Yeah. And that simplifies I mean. It's so funny because organization is limiting chaos.Is limiting how you might put away your clothes, or how you might - right like it's a limitation. And I was saying limitation earlier and I'm thinking it's is it a limitation or is it a choice to have structure because that's different right limitation is like argh, choice to have structure is like I choose to have more clarity and organization.
Laura
Discipline is freedom.
Mandy
Right, which is so not always where I'm coming from and it is true.
Laura
I know well and it's funny because like, I'll get done with the work week and then I my tendency is like self isolate and then I or I'll kind of lay around and then it's Sunday, and I didn't do what I wanted to do on Friday or Saturday, or that I, you know. Anyway, then I kind of have some regret on how I'm spending my time, which is, you know, I'm really trying to figure out in a lot of areas I'm very disciplined and it works for me and it gives me freedom, but there's still, yeah, it's like. Yeah, it just feels like a little bit of an over, correct that then I typically regret a a few hours later because I may have been more nourished if I did go see friends, you know and do a hangout instead of watching 3 hours of Netflix or whatever.
Mandy
Right. Or like in my case I don't, I don't make myself work out on the weekends, but if I if I kept the momentum that I had and just said it's just an hour or it's just 30 minutes and that discipline, that like, what would that change? What would open up I, there's something that I'm trying to I'm trying to attach what what I'm trying to source where it's coming from in my past, but there was something that I had heard about doing those things, holding to those like you were saying, the things that you wanted to get done over the weekend and then you get done. You're like, oh, I didn't do those. That was framed in something that I was listening to about…it was framed in a way that's like, what am I trying to say? It's an issue of creating a situation where you can trust yourself. Yeah, you're showing yourself in doing it. You're showing yourself that you're trustworthy for what you wanted to do for what you said you would do to yourself and how we know how important that is to other people. And then it's easy to think that it's less important for self or that to think that allowing ourself not to show up is supporting ourselves when maybe it's not.
Laura
Exactly. And and that's that's this big story that I have of like oh, you just need a night to do nothing or you know. So there are some of those extra kind of pieces that I've been playing with of yeah, wiping down my counters before I go to bed, putting my dishes away because future Laura loves waking up to that, you know? So it's I'm kind of incrementally chipping away at that, but I think, yeah, discipline is freedom, the structures and whatnot, really. Then allow us to have the ultimate freedom, you know what I mean of, you know, now and now I'm stressed out about I just created stress in my life. And you're right, I disappointed myself. I didn't shop for myself.
Mandy
Laura
Mandy
Against ourselves - That's exactly it. That's exactly it. Yeah. Yeah. Now, but let's dive in one step deeper. Because, because kids rebel to prove to themselves that they have agency, So what can we learn from that if I'm rebelling against myself. Now, what agency do I want or need to prove to myself that I have.
Laura
Well, I think in the case that I'm talking about, it's… I think… this is really good. I think it's about like a story of lack of time or a story of what relaxation needs to look like? I mean, it's definitely sabotage
Mandy
Potentially it's rebelling against what we've been told it is. Oh, to relax. You have to do this thing.
Laura
Mandy
And we're rebelling against the definition we've been handed.
Laura
Yes, and kind of what was modeled, it's like, yeah, the old habit is like, what I saw was, yeah, watching TV was relaxing. But that's really not what's serving me. Then I kind of replicate this thing.
Laura
Yes, yes.
Mandy
So maybe it's we need to rebel because we need to take it and take the agency for what's actually true for us.
Laura
I think so.
Mandy
Laura
I need to kind of unwind this thing, this belief, or that I have. That's actually not what it is going to help me.
Mandy
I can so relate to that.
Laura
Yeah, yeah. And I would also. So it's a mix of that. But I would also say kind of my childhood was that you know, like, you know, Mom would never relax. Mom would never sit down and so it's sort of, it's a mix of those two things
Mandy
I feel that one even more, I totally do. Where, that's not…my parents do relax. I definitely, maybe societally more than just my immediate family - there's this like, “Go be productive. Go do things, go do things. And part of me is like, sometimes I just I I don't buy into that and I think the I think part of me is rebelling against the story that I have to be productive. Right. So and that's not what you're not saying that the opposite to TV is being productive. That's not what you're saying. You're saying there might be a different way to not be productive.
Laura
That’s Right
Mandy
Mandy
Laura
This is kind of a tangled mess now that we’re looking.
Mandy
Aren't we all? Aren’t we all? But starting to see it right. I mean, here's the thing that I think is so powerful and we kind of talked about, I do this, I do this in design work is I think starting to just identify the pieces and not immediately jumping to, “What do we do about this?” is so powerful. There is so little value placed on sitting before acting and and assessing before acting. And I think it's so frequently the pattern to say, OK, what do you do about it? OK, what do you do about it without saying, you know, I feel uncomfortable that I feel, I know something needs to be done and I'm going to take a beat to pause and actually get clear so that when I do something it's more clear and it's not a reaction, yeah.
Laura
Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, and that's what, you know, a lot of the habits that I'm working on of eating slower, not watching TV while I eat and then this whole, you know, kind of rebellion, anti whatever. We just said that I need to go back and listen to and there was a lot. There was a lot in that. If I could have the capacity to slow down for five seconds and and then say OK, do I really want to turn the TV on while I eat, you know?
Mandy
Laura
Because there's this energy kind of moving you towards this habit that can be so strong it it.
Mandy
You know, I have a friend that is an alcoholic. He's been sober for 30 years, 30 or 40. I don't know lots of years. At least 30. And we had an amazing discussion about the fact that and this is kind of, it's very Joe Dispenza. I start to think Joe Dispenza when I get into this kind of conversation where we are trying to fill like a, there's some little like discomfort that let's just say it's like a little hole that's discomfort and the hole is uncomfortable and my friend was relating that Yeah, that was what alcohol and drugs were for me 30-40 years ago. “There's a hole fill it, there's hole fill it.” And the longer any of us can pause and not jump to fill the hole.
Laura
Yeah
Mandy
The longer we can pause, the more intentional we can be about what the need actually is. Because here's the thing. So often the conversations about what needs to happen, when really that there's so much power left on the table when we don't get clear on what the hole is in the first place. You know, it's easy to find things to fill a hole if we don't know what the hole is, we're just going to keep looking for things to fill. Here's a filler.
Laura
It’s like Whack-a-Mole
Mandy
Yep, exactly. And the clearer we can get to just sit w ith the hole and be like, “oh, there it is.”
Laura
Mandy
And not need to have it be filled? Maybe ever? I mean I don't know, it depends on what the topic is.
Laura
Mandy
It's a pause between reaction. Yeah.
Laura
And it's just fascinating to me too. It's easy to say, it can be so hard with some of these patterns, these habits to you, it's like, you know, I mean, someone's going to be watching this and being like really? Watching TV and eating? You know, but for me it's like.
Mandy
You know what? That's how it plays out though. And and if we do it in one place, then we're doing it other places. And I think it's a human tendency to like - you know it's like the cliche thing that all the people in Alcoholics - that are in AA meetings come out and go smoking outside of the thing. So you're replacing one thing with another thing. And it's excruciatingly difficult for us. It really is like, I don't think that's an understatement, it's excruciating for us to find the thing that we keep substituting in something else to fill and be like, what if I just don't?
Laura
Mandy
Because it's so hard
Laura
It is so hard. Yeah, yeah. It is so hard.
Mandy
And I mean it applies to everything. Do we have to fill a silence in a conversation? Do we have to like if I'm if I'm watching TV, do I have to be eating food because what happens is some part of my brain is left without some dopamine going on at every single second. What happens if it sits still right? I'm just joking with my friend, I said, I think about every time I usually work out right here in my office, but a couple of times for some reason I was working out in the bedroom and I was like all of a sudden I really wanna make the bed because the app work sucks and I don't wanna do 10 more reps of the app work and gosh, I could just straighten the sheets right here, which I don't wanna do unless I'm doing ab work because then it's filling, you know, it's like the distraction and the dopamine that you did it and it wasn't as hard as, yeah.
Laura
Oh, I got it. So much. Yeah. And that's where you know, it's interesting. I saw some really good quotes around, you know, you've got a lot of data around how your home looks, but also around being organized. You know, and and how much that kind of can eliminate.
Mandy
You know that's, I mean that is an ongoing one for me and I think like to give myself some grace very realistically I work with a shaman regularly, you know. And at some point, she said. I was, I don't know how this came up. This is not what we normally talk about. But she said something like Mandy you are an artistic person. The the brain of an artistic person is expansive and and creates more choices, more opportunity and the brain to make something organized is the opposite of that. She's like, do you think this is supposed to be easy for the way that for where you're coming from? It’s not that she was saying give up on it, but she's like, maybe there's a little more space in my own self criticism about being organized to say Ah, I appreciate having choice. I appreciate making more options and how can I embrace more organization understanding that having it be organized gives me more options elsewhere.
Laura
Mandy
And I don't need the options to be in the mess or in not following the structure, right? The structure takes away options, but if I can put the structure in how my clothes go in. If I can put the structure in, how my closet’s organized or my junk drawer’s organized, then there's so much more room for the possibility and the the artistic things elsewhere.
Laura
Creative things. Yeah, that might be more nourishing for you.
Mandy
Right, right. So again, structure wins out here. My heart dies just a little bit.
Laura
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I do think then, you know, it's interesting what that reminded me of is I remember reading an article around like, are you a pile person, or do you file things in folders or I had … My hairdresser was very visual, so he did, he had this whole visual way, he had his own business, a visual way of taxes.
Mandy
Laura
Yeah, and because. I know, but it worked for him, you know? And so it was kind of a structure in a program. But I do think it is important to let ourselves be who we are,
Mandy
Yes, responsive structure. Yeah, like stemming from the inside. What do I want out of it? What? What do what needs to be limited? What am I asking to be limited in this situation? And what doesn't? Because because so often exterior, external, exterior, right. Like we just bring in structure and it's not ever going to fit the same way it is if it's coming from inside. Different question.
Laura
So good. So good.
Mandy
Thanks, this was wonderful. I always love talking to you, I could talk to you all the time.
Laura
To you for talking. I know right back at you. Yeah, this late and this was so fun reflecting back on that journey, holy moly.
Mandy
Yeah. It's. Yeah, your place. We should get my photographer over to you because we should just document this version of you now.
Laura
I know it's so good. It's so. Yeah, this conversation was really meaningful. I, thank you.
Mandy
Thank you.
Laura
Yeah, it's very validating of where I am and who I am and I I didn't know I needed this. But thank you it really, especially this week's been crazy. Well, you know, so yeah, it's been this was like a cherry on a not-Sunday week.
Mandy
Perfect. Yeah. Yeah. Perfect. Oh, yeah. Well, thank you so much. I mean, I love working with you on your home. And also I just love knowing you. I you're, you are an inspiration in so many ways and and, all of it, like the way that we come together and bounce off of: Yeah, and yes, and oh, we can learn this and that…Yeah… Doesn't that? Yeah, it's expansion that feels so wonderful.
Laura
So good, so good. It's how collaboration should be, you know.
Mandy
Yes. Yeah, amazing. And especially collaboration, where it's like, oh, something's not quite right. Oh, OK. Wait, pause. What is it? Yeah, let's take a step back. OK, cool. Now we're back on track. Let's keep going. And it's so much more fun, right?
Laura
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's you know it's I think. What I love about, what we're talking about and you know, when I think of corporate America, there needs to be more of that. People need to know how to do that. You know what I mean?
Mandy
Laura
Mandy
We have to go seek this out, it is not taught anywhere and it's a detriment to everything: our personal relationships, our self relationships and our work relationships, right?
Laura
Yes. Everything. Yeah, right. Yeah. And the the other interesting I hadn't thought about this with you in corporate America. But the other interesting thing was when I was doing partner dance. You know, and there's so much of that, like, where do you want to go? Where, where am I interpreting we want to go. And then how do we co-create that in the moment together and and then getting feedback of what was that like for you? What was that? You know, what were you trying to do? Did I pick up on what you were telling me? And no you didn't or yes you did. And you know, it's like. That is what's missing from all relationships.
Mandy
That is such a good, very specific metaphor like I. I think that's so true. I don't do a lot of dancing, but I completely right, like there's this, who's leading, who's leading now. OK, you're going to lead for a little while. Yeah. And then the response, like, how was that? What can we do differently next time to be more responsive and when, when you're in that place that is mutually responsive then you flow together. Because I've seen dance improv so many times at Burning Man and watching that, which that's where the lead … nobody's leading.
Laura
That's right. Well, it that's what I was going to say is that it's active leading and active following because you can't have passive following that doesn't work.
Mandy
Right. Yes, thank you so much. Exactly, exactly.
Laura
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, so you're bringing a lot to people. The design work, you know, and and modeling how to collaborate. So thank you.
Mandy
I love that. Thank you. I love having more clarity about what comes out of what I offer.
Laura
Yeah, yeah. For sure. For sure. Yeah. Alright. I love you so much. Do you have anything coming up this weekend?
Mandy
I'm not sure there are a few things up in the air and I'm trying to feel into them.
Laura
Well, the party is there a party?
Mandy
There's a party. Well, I went to a party last, I went to a birthday party, last weekend I was just joking with a friend today that there are so many birthdays this time of year, and then I was like, wait, it's the fact that Leo's all throw themselves parties.
Laura
Ahaha Yes, OK.
Mandy
Right. And the rest of the year like, I didn't actually have a birthday party for myself this year and so many people are just like, I don't know, it's October. And like, I don't know, I don't really need a birthday party, but Leo's are like, It's my party. Come to my party. It's time for my party everybody party! Right?
Laura
That's so great. Yeah, that's really funny.
Mandy
All the Leo birthdays.
Laura
All right. All right. Love you.
Mandy
Thank you so much, love you. Thank you. Thanks.
Laura
Have a good weekend.