Pat Backley is a living example of the saying “Age is a matter of the mind. If you don’t mind, it doesn’t matter”. At 70, Pat began her dream career and is now enjoying a fabulous life. Pandemic boredom unlocked her creativity and she wrote her first novel within three weeks in the 2020 lockdown. This unleashed the deluge of stories hidden in her life experiences. Four books later, including her memoirs, Pat says she’s going to write till she dies and not soon because, she’s got many stories to tell.
Pat’s story is an encouragement to us all to learn to listen to our hearts, so that we don’t miss the opportunities right inside in our hands.
Pat’s first Book, Daisy and her sequel, The Second Daisy were selected for promotion during the 2022 Black History Month by Overdrive and Barnes and Noble.
For more information about Pat and links to all her books, visit www.patbackley.com. You can also follow her on Instagram, Facebook and Clubhouse @patbackley.
Thank you so much for listening!
References in this episode
https://www.nycitywoman.com/ari-cohen-photographing-the-stylish-elderly/
Please DM me on Instagram or Facebook @judithobatusa to let me know what you thought of this episode.
If you'll love to share your story on the #MessyCantStopHer podcast, click here.
Music Credit: https://indiefy.me/wanted-carter
Join the Messy Can't Stop Her Sisterhood at https://www.facebook.com/groups/3204395256540448/
If you would love to share your story on the #MessyCantStopHer podcast, click here to let me know.
Thank you so much for listening.
Music Credit: https://indiefy.me/wanted-carter
Pat Backley is a living example of the saying “Age is a matter of the mind. If you don’t mind, it doesn’t matter”. At 70, Pat began her dream career and is now enjoying a fabulous life. Pandemic boredom unlocked her creativity and she wrote her first novel within three weeks in the 2020 lockdown. This unleashed the deluge of stories hidden in her life experiences. Four books later, including her memoirs, Pat says she’s going to write till she dies and not soon because, she’s got many stories to tell.
Pat’s story is an encouragement to us all to learn to listen to our hearts, so that we don’t miss the opportunities right inside in our hands.
Pat’s first Book, Daisy and her sequel, The Second Daisy were selected for promotion during the 2022 Black History Month by Overdrive and Barnes and Noble.
For more information about Pat and links to all her books, visit www.patbackley.com. You can also follow her on Instagram, Facebook and Clubhouse @patbackley.
Thank you so much for listening!
References in this episode
https://www.nycitywoman.com/ari-cohen-photographing-the-stylish-elderly/
Please DM me on Instagram or Facebook @judithobatusa to let me know what you thought of this episode.
If you'll love to share your story on the #MessyCantStopHer podcast, click here.
Music Credit: https://indiefy.me/wanted-carter
Join the Messy Can't Stop Her Sisterhood at https://www.facebook.com/groups/3204395256540448/
If you would love to share your story on the #MessyCantStopHer podcast, click here to let me know.
Thank you so much for listening.
Music Credit: https://indiefy.me/wanted-carter
This is Messy Can't Stop Her. And I am your host, Judith Kambia Obatusa – JKO.
JKO: Welcome to this episode of Messy Can’t Stop Her, the podcast where we share the stories of women who did not allow the chaos of life, the challenges of life, whether physical ailment, a bad relationship, difficult work situation, even age stop them from reaching for their dreams and inspiring others.
On today's episode, we have Pat Backley. Pat is an author and her story is so fascinating to me. And not just fascinating, it's very inspiring because Pat became an author in 2020 during the lockdown, the Pandemic lockdown. As at January 2022, she has written four books and she has two more with her editor right this moment. And just so you know, Pat is 70 years old. Pat, we welcome you to this episode of Messy Can’t Stop Her. Thank you so much for being here with us today.
Pat Backley: Thank you so much for inviting me, Judith. It's an absolute joy to be here. And can I just say I love the title of your podcast, Messy Can’t Stop Her? That just says so much. It's a fabulous title. So well done for thinking of it. Yeah, am absolutely delighted to be here.
JKO: Thank you so much, Pat. And why I mentioned Pat's age is that at a particular time in my life, as I inched towards 50, I began to think of all the things I could have done with my life that I didn't do. And I was feeling that age was a barrier to achieving those things. But because of people like Pat, anyone who is having those thoughts can be reassured that age is no barrier to reaching your dreams. It doesn't matter how long you've lived, what matters is when you start. There's an African proverb that says that when your eyes open, that's when your day begins. So Pat's eyes opened at 70. But she's got a story that led to that time. And I'm just going to ask Pat.
Every time people come on this podcast, I always ask them, what was that mess in your life that was so significant that it was during that mess that you took a turn that led you to this place where we are celebrating you?
Pat Backley: Okay. Deep breath, Judith. Right. Big story coming up. Well, basically, as Judith said, I wrote at the beginning of Lockdown. I was like most people; I was very fed up. I spent two weeks lying on the sofa feeling very sorry for myself, watching rubbish on Netflix and eating far too much chocolate. And then I thought, “Pat, this is ridiculous. You've been through so much in your life. Why are you letting this get you down? This is just nothing. This is a hiccup. It will be over in a few weeks.” Please take note, that was two years ago. Covid still isn't over. But that was what I told myself at the time. And I said, this is ridiculous. “Pat, you're wasting these weeks. Just do something. Why don't you write a book?” So I just got up, got some pieces of paper, sat at my kitchen table and started writing. And three weeks later, I'd written my first book, a novel, a historical family saga, which I was very excited about. But the point leading up to that was that I was on my own in lockdown, which is why I was unhappy. I had nobody around me, nobody to kind of share things with, because one and a half years previously, my husband of 26 years had told me he didn't love me anymore. He hadn't loved me properly for years. The marriage was over, and he wasn't coming back to New Zealand with me. At the time. We were in London visiting our daughter, but we live in New Zealand. So, I was faced with this awful thing of just coming back alone, sorting out everything, selling the house, and worse, it wasn't my first divorce. I'd been divorced when I was very young. So it was kind of like, oh, what have I done? I'm useless at this life business. I can't do love. I can't keep a man. My first husband, I had 14 years. My second one, 26. So in theory, I can keep a man, but just obviously not long term. So that was what kind of led me to that point, really, of writing my first book. Had we not been in lockdown and had my husband still been around, I don't think I would ever have become an author. So, it was just a change of circumstance that got me where I am today, which is very exciting, actually.
JKO: It's so exciting. Can you imagine? But you need to tell us this thing in you that makes you rise up when life wants to push you down. When your husband told you he's done, so shocking. I mean, someone recently told me after 33 years of marriage, her husband blindsided her with he’s done. She wasn't expecting it, there was nothing that showed that this was coming. So, the same thing happened to you. He blindsided you when you were visiting your daughter halfway around the globe from where you lived, and you came back and you packed up the house, you girded your loins and you dug down and you're living. Yes. What is that thing that motivates you that makes it possible for you to do that? Because that could have broken a lesser woman?
Pat Backley: Yeah, it could. And there were times, I have to be honest, there were very dark times when I felt, oh, I can't do this because I had nobody else in New Zealand. I had nobody else in New Zealand at all. No family, obviously some friends, but, yeah, it was pretty tough. I think what got me is that I started life in a very ordinary, quite poor family. But I always had aspirations. I always wanted to be a lady. It sounds crazy now, but not a lady with the title, but just a lady who would be quite elegant and do something good in the world. That was always my dream, and it took me a long, long time to get anywhere near achieving that. But I think always I've had this burning ambition to be better, to live the life that God wanted me to live, rather than just an ordinary kind of life. So once I got over the shock and it was a shock because there was no warning. I mean, he had cheated on me a couple of times in previous years, but we kind of got over that. So I really thought that okay, that's all done. I can deal with this. That's okay. Once I got over that initial shock and he refused to come back, so I had to do everything myself. I kind of just worked through my grief. I think I have to say it's nearly four years now, and there's still part of me that's still grieving, but I've just kind of put that on the back burner. Okay. That's done, had disappointments in the past, just dealt with them. Get on with it. I had a sister, my baby sister, and she couldn't cope with life, and so she ended up committing suicide. And I think that's always in the back of my mind that you have two choices in life – you either go right down or you bounce back. And I've always been determined to bounce back. So, yeah.
JKO: Talking about bouncing back, apart from the fact that it could be a personality trait that you don't stay down in the dumps for as long as people like me and maybe like your sister, who had to sadly took her own life. And many people are in those situations. Somebody might be listening to this podcast now, and it's hanging on by the tip of her finger to life. Is there any practices that you have gained over the years that you could attribute to this way of thinking? Because what you did was talk to yourself. You told yourself it could have been worse. You gave yourself a Pep talk and you listened. (Pat Backley: Yeah). I remember when I came face to face with anxiety for the first time in my life, that I recognized it as Anxiety 2021. And there is an app called Mind Shift app that has anxiety therapy, things you can use. And the therapist told me about the app. I already saw the app through my office and I had downloaded it, but I wasn't really using it. And the lady told me how I could use it better. And I used this app. And the day I had to go on a medical leave was the day that at 8:30 in the morning at work, I had bust into tears three times already. I had done what the app said. Breathe, breathe, breathe. Somebody is talking, meditate, all those things. Calm yourself. I did everything and it didn't work. So sometimes you try to talk to yourself and yourself refuses to listen. (Pat Backley: Absolutely. Yeah.) Maybe there's something you've been doing, but you haven't really thought deeply about it because it comes naturally to you. But for so many people, it doesn't come naturally to them. Is there anything you could maybe as I'm talking about it, your mind has gone back to things you've done, maybe books you've read or something you have been doing that really helped you at that moment, because that is devastating news.
Pat Backley: Oh, totally, Judith. I think the fact that I had been through quite a lot of stuff in previous years kind of helped because I knew that if I really tried, I could get through it. Like my first marriage, I was only, it was two weeks after my 20th birthday. I didn't know him at all. I'd known him for one year. He lived 50 miles away. And we saw each other once a week. So you don't get to know somebody in that time. Three days after I married him, which my parents didn't want me to do, I realized I'd made the worst mistake of my life. But I was 20 years old. I was very proud. I was very independent. So for 14 years I tried to deal with it myself. I mean, he had a very bad temper. He wouldn't let me have children. He had affairs, all the standard kind of stuff. And I didn't tell a soul. I didn't tell my parents, I didn't tell my friends. I just tried to battle it all on my own. So I think that gave me an inner strength that I didn't know I had, that I was able to do it. But the turning point, and I think it's great that these days there are so many apps and books and things to help people through, because in those days we're talking 30, nearly 40 years ago, those things weren't readily available. They were kind of just considered a bit cranky. And of course, I was brought up in the England where one has to have a stiff upper lip all the time and just get on with things. So anyway, towards the end of that marriage, I went to see my doctor. I very rarely went to the doctor. Very lovely man called Doctor Meta, great big Indian gentleman. And he sat opposite the desk and he said, “Now, my dear, what can I do for you today?” And I said, “Oh, I've got this sore thumb.” My thumb was enormous, it was very swollen. I can remember as if it was yesterday. And he just flicked it like this because I jumped because it was full of poison. “Oh, yes”, He said, “a bit of poison there. Now tell me what's really wrong with you.” And I spent the next 20 minutes sobbing in his office and just pouring out my heart. And he said, “Hmmnh…I have wondered.” He said, “When you came to me a few years ago with a sore back,” He said, “Your husband had kicked you, hadn't he?” We'd never discussed it then, but at that moment. And then he said to me, and this will stay in my head forever, Judith. And this is what gave me courage. He said, “Pat, my religion doesn't approve of divorce,” He said, “but you must leave this man before he kills you.” And for me, that was like getting a green light from somebody I trusted, because I'd never spoken to a living soul until him. And it was like he said to me, okay, this is fine. You can do this. It still took me two years to pluck up my courage to leave because I was quite intimidated. And when I left, I walked away with nothing. I left him the house, the business, everything. I just needed my freedom. And when I was alone, I rented a little flat, and I was quite frightened of him. And he threatened all sorts of dire things, like putting firebombs through my letterbox. So every night when I went to bed in this little rented flat, I used to tape thick Brown tape across the inside of my letterbox because I was frightened he'd poke this fire bomb through. It was a scary time. So I think all those things just built me up as a person. And then once I'd left him, I then told everyone. I didn't tell everyone the awful truth, but I told them a few bits. But I think I was only 33 when I left him. And I think by then I developed this core of strength, if you like, but helped my God. I mean, I talk to God all the time, which has been great, which my sister didn't have. And I do feel that she didn't have that closeness, that one to one with God, which, I mean, I don't go to Church anymore, but I have this hotline where I just chat to him, and Margaret just didn't have that. And I feel very sad because I think for anyone who's had a family member or friend commit suicide, you always live with the guilt. You always think, “Could I have done better? Could I have been better sister?” And I just think, “could I have been a better sister?” And I wish she'd known God, because I think that would have helped her. But for me, yeah, I think I've just developed the strength over the years. My nature is quite sunny and optimistic generally, which helps. But I think just dealing with that whole first marriage issue completely on my own, I think that made me quite strong. So this time it kind of,
JKO: Yes, you do have a sunny disposition. But that first marriage. So the second one was like, not again, this isn't happening again.
Pat Backley: I was never going to get married again, Judith. I left my first husband and got divorced when I was 33. I didn't meet my second husband till I was 41. I did have a man in between that I was very fond of, but he didn't want to get married or anything or have children. So when I was 41, a friend introduced me to this new man. And I had no intention of getting married again. Absolutely none. I bought my own little house by then, with an enormous mortgage that was nearly twice the size of me. And then I was introduced to my new husband. And within four months, I agreed to marry him, which, in hindsight, was ridiculous. I didn't really know him, but he said to me, if we get married, he was younger than me, eight years younger. He said, if we get married, you could have a baby. Now, I had always wanted a child, and my first husband wouldn't let me. So for me, that was the thing. And I got pregnant incredibly quickly, lost two babies, and then had my wonderful daughter Lucy when I was 43. So life turns out well. And obviously, I had to have that second marriage to have my daughter, who is the love of my life, who is now nearly 28 years old. So it was absolutely worth it all, just to get my Lucy.
JKO: So the marriage wasn't all bad.
Pat Backley: No, I thought it was good. I mean, we were very different. And he wasn't emotional. He was quite cold, and he wasn't affectionate. He would never hold my hand or anything like that. He wouldn't sit next to me on the sofa to watch a movie very much was his own person. He really probably shouldn't have married me. And it later turned out that he'd been in love with this other woman before he married me and kept her, a bit like Charles and Camilla and kept her in his life all the way through. And I only found out 19 years later that she'd still been in our lives, which I had no idea, because she lived in England and we were in New Zealand. So he saw her when he went back for all his regular meetings. Yeah. And then when it all blew up and he told me after 26 years, it was over, I said my first reaction was, Is it her again? And he said, no, she died four years ago. So obviously he still continued being in touch with her, even though he told me it was all over. So, yeah, it's life, Judith. It's life. And if I can inspire other women by telling my story, which is obviously painful, telling my story, but if I can inspire other women, that's wonderful, because as a little girl and a young woman, I was very inspired by other women, by older women, just by reading their stories or hearing about their lives. And so if I can just do that for someone else, then I've fulfilled my life’s ambition, really.
JKO: Yeah, I really appreciate you for that, because one of the things that really empowers me is other people's stories. It gives me hope, makes me really hopeful. Because if you're in a tough time and you read about this person who has gone through, then you know that, oh my gosh, this person came through, I will come through too. And that's why Messy Can't Stop Her, the podcast is here so that we can tell those stories. Seemingly ordinary people, people you can identify with who are going through some of the things you may be going through. I didn't even know you lost children. But you are so full of life, full of joy, and it's so wonderful that you are that way. So how did that affect your storytelling?
Pat Backley: I think it gave me, once I was over the worst pain, which probably was about 18 months. Once we went into lockdown, it kind of released me to put my emotions out there because I've always been fairly private and not wanting to share my emotions. But by writing, I put down my feelings. Like my first book, Daisy, is a novel, but I realized that it holds a lot of my thoughts and feelings about how we're all equal, however we're born, whatever that kind of stuff. It kind of gave me an avenue to tell my truth, if you like. And then after publishing that, I wrote my own personal memoir, which was very cathartic, although several of my friends said to me, Pat, you've been too nice about your exes, because I've just kind of skimmed over. I haven't gone into all the nasty, nitty gritty stuff because, A, what's the point? And B, I didn't want to hurt them, particularly assuming they ever read it. And also, I get fed up reading doom and gloom stories. I mean, life is horrible enough at the moment, isn't it? People need a bit of lightness. So I've tried to make my books quite light. Then I wrote a sequel to Daisy, which was published just before Christmas. And then, of course, I contributed to the Warrior Women book, which is how I met you, Judith. And I've just now started a new series of my ancestors’ stories. My ancestors that I didn't know, but I know their stories. So I'm weaving those into novels, which is just wonderful. But what I'm doing is all the horrible bits from my marriages, the really dark bits I didn't want to put in my own book. I'm writing them into my novels. So those incidents are being written into the novels and very Interestingly, the book I just published, a girlfriend who knows me quite well phoned me and she said, Pat, I just downloaded your book. I've read it. Can you just tell me that incident in Paris, did that happen to you? I said, yeah, it did, actually. And she could see. She could see that that was me telling my story, but in a novel relating to someone else. So it's wonderful, Judith. This is why I need to be a storyteller, because I start on one topic, then I wander off to another. But to answer your question, yes, my writing is a wonderful outlet for my feelings. Wonderful. And I'm so grateful that I've got it. And now I've discovered it, I'm going to write till I die, and I hope I don't die too soon because I've got heaps more stories in my head that have got to come out.
JKO: Good. I love what you're doing. I write and I find it so hard to separate myself from the stories, but you're doing it so good, so well by weaving your story into the character, into the character’s story. So it's not about you. I just don't know. Even when I talk, I'm so like sometimes I wish I could just if you ask me something, I could give you such a vague answer that you don't connect it to me but I don't know how to do it. And I tried so hard. I'm not able to. So even in my writing, my writing is so direct. But then after some time, there was a time in my life I used to want to be like other people. But now I realize that that's why we're different. That's why the rainbow isn't one color. And it's so beautiful because it's not one color. So, it's just me.
Pat Backley: But you're a wonderful person, Judith. Don't try and change because you are perfect as you are, and you're perfect because you're not the same as the person sitting next to you. That's wonderful. There's too many people in the world that try to blend in, so it makes them a bit boring. Do you remember those fabulous old ladies in New York who were all photographed a few years ago in outlandish clothes? They were all in their Eighties and nineties, that's what we'll be like. You know all this
JKO: About your first book? You said you wrote it in three weeks. I did, yeah. And the story of Daisy was something to do with the classes, black and white. What was your inspiration?
Pat Backley: Well, as a very little girl at Sunday school, one day we had a missionary come. This is back in England and in the 1950s, o a different time. And this lady came and she was talking about her time in the Virgin Congo. And I was just mesmerized. I just sat there, I think, with my mouth open, looking up at this tiny, she was only a little lady, just mesmerized, about her story and about all the black children. And I just thought, I want to go there. I want to be a missionary. So for many years I wanted to be a missionary. I read and absorbed as much as I possibly could about the black culture, I guess, if that's the way of saying it. I read Uncle Tom's Cabin. I learned about Harriet Tubman. I read as a little girl, I mean, a very little girl. I was fascinated and interestingly because I never met any Black people. I mean, I lived in the little English village, which was all White, which had been White for 500 years. The only time I ever saw anyone Black was when I went to London, and there were some people on the London Underground, on the buses. And I just thought they were like gods. They were these tall, handsome black men. And I used to stand there looking up at them, thinking, “You're so beautiful.” So I think it's always been in my soul, if you like. In fact, sometimes I think I probably should have been born Black because I have such an affinity. But that kind of started me. And then I went through the teenage bit and the whole. And then when I was 25, my first husband and I were sent to the Fiji Islands on a two year contract. And so suddenly I was living with Black people who I adored. And they became, they are my extended family. I'm still in touch with them 40 odd years later, I go and see them. Well, when Covid wasn’t around. I have photographs of them all around my house. They are my family. So I think for me, when I started writing Daisy, I had no intention of writing about Black people or White people or anything. I just thought, well, write a book. So I started writing. But the book just started writing itself. I had a rough idea of the characters, but then they just all took off. And it was very exciting, Judith, because it was like I was learning the story as I wrote it. But I do have this really deep feeling that we are all equal. Everyone should be treated the same, regardless of their color, religion, whether they're rich or poor. And so I've managed to weave that into, well, all my books, I now realize, without realizing it. But certainly, Daisy, it's based on initially two families, one in Alabama, a boy who is rich on the plantation and the slaves, and a young woman who is an unmarried mother in Victorian times in London. And then as the story weaves, those two don't get together, but other people do. And so I've woven in the whole intermarriage and I've just written a sequel. So I've just picked all those people up again and just carried them on to the new Millennium. So very exciting.
JKO: So good. I want to ask you something about. I'm just thinking back to your marriages. There were difficult times in the marriages, and I wonder how you coped in terms of mistreatment, because even though the second husband wasn't perfect, you were still blindsided and you were not totally, completely happy. How did you deal with that? Because sometimes I think about the things that we tolerate, and maybe if we tolerated better, there'll be better outcomes. I just have this thought. So try to unravel that for me. Because you didn't really talk about the challenges you had for someone like me. I talk about the challenges all the time. All my challenges are at the tip of my tongue. If you say good morning to me, I'll give you all the challenges.
Pat Backley: Yeah. I think for me, Judith, because I kept so much to myself when I was young and didn't tell people about all the mistreatment and because both my husbands were narcissists, which I've never even heard of that term until about three years ago, they both convinced me that I was the one that was in the wrong. So I just kept thinking, if I try a bit harder, this is going to work. So I spent 14 years with my first husband trying very hard. I'm a great people, pleaser. Anyway. So I always bend over backwards to try and make everyone happy. So obviously that didn't work because despite the fact I was doing everything I possibly could, it still wasn't enough. I actually left him in the end. But my second husband was the same. Right from the beginning, like, I had my own house, but he wanted me to move into his house because he had his mother and his dog living there and it was near his work. So my house, which I'd lovingly, I mean, I was up to here in debt with it, with the mortgage and I made it beautiful. So I gave that up with a lot of tears to move into his really not very nice house. I started giving in too easily, like when Lucy was born, I wanted her to be christened in a little village Church and he was agnostic, so he said, or an atheist or whatever. So he said, no, we don't need to christen. So I gave in. I didn't christen her and that's always… I gave in too much over the years thinking I was going to make it work. It doesn't. It just makes you more of a doormat so they will just walk over you much more. So now I haven't even had as much as a cup of coffee with a man in the last almost four years since I've been on my own. Because I am so terrified of getting myself into that again. Because I just know that …I once had a guy live in my flat for two and a half years, we were kind of vaguely involved, just because I was too polite to say, no, you can't come and stay for a week and he arrives with a furniture bag with all his furniture and moved in and it took me two and a half years to get him out. So I know myself well enough that if I met a guy for a coffee and he said, oh, you're really nice, would you like to come out for dinner? I wouldn't want to hurt him. So I'd say, yeah, okay, I just know myself. I'm crazy, you know, Yeah. And I would like a man. I would like a lover. I would like someone who spoilt me and gave me a nice time. Actually, what I would really like, Judith, is to be cherished. In my whole life, I've never been cherished, and that's what I would really like. But I'm terrified of jumping in and then finding, oh, I'm in the same situation. Yeah. Several of my friends have said to me, just join a dating site. And I say, no, I just would be hopeless. I'd be hopeless. So I'm just waiting. If God decides to send me a nice man to be a very nice, loving companion, that's perfect. But I'm not going to go seeking it.
JKO: He'll sniff his finger and then he’ll be directed to your house. Really? I love how you trust God. I'm sure God loves it, too. The guy will be in his house, sniff his finger, and he'll be led to your house by the scent. Anyway, let me give you a tip. I heard that the best way to find a good man is through volunteering.
Pat Backley: Oh, yes, I think you're right.
JKO: You don't come looking for a man, and the man is just busy being himself. So you get to know yourself. Yes. And I actually have one story of a lady who was in an abusive marriage left the guy. And then somewhere she was volunteering. She had known this guy for two years plus. And suddenly from friendship, they became whatever. And they've been married now for over a decade. And he cherishes her. Treats like the Queen that she is loves on her, and she loves him. Such a passionate love. And these are not like young people. They're like in their 60s. And the guy is, I think, in the 60s. So I know that love is still possible. Yeah.
And you made me laugh. You have to step out of your comfort zone. And I know that feeling of once beaten, ten times shy.
Pat Backley: Judith, if I counted all the nights in both marriages that I have sat on the stairs and cried nearly all night. I don't want to be in that position again. I'm in a safe place now. I've got my own little house. I've got my life. I don't want to be in that horrible position again.
JKO: Yes. You don't deserve it. Now you're going to be cherished. I know that for sure. That when next to you, the next one that comes along, the number three is a charm. That's what they say. I'm trusting with. You have to step out though. Yes.
I just want to thank you because you've answered my question. If the man is going to misbehave, it's not because of what you did. No, he made his choice. Let's assume that the woman is a crazy, crazy person. The man can still choose to be different. I was writing and I said that I mistook people pleasing for love. Yeah. So I decided to go to some little research on people pleasing. I always refer to myself as a recovering people pleaser,
Pat Backley: That's not what I need to be as well.
JKO: Yeah. Why I say I'm recovering is that I now know that that's a problem. But they said in my readings, that many times people become people pleasers because of childhood trauma. Were you traumatized?
Pat Backley: Yeah, I think trauma is too dramatic a word for my situation. But I'm the eldest child. I grew up in a very loving but slightly troubled family. I think my dad was my mom's second choice, I think her first love died in the war. And so dad was her second child. Not that she ever said it, but we all kind of knew. My dad was a very loving but slightly eccentric man. And when I was three years old, he had a nervous breakdown and he was in hospital in those days back in the 50s. It wasn't a good thing. It was very looked down on. And so he had electric shock treatment. He was away for six months. I wasn't allowed to see him in that time and I was very close to my dad. And Mum had to struggle on her own in like 50 miles away from family, with myself and my new baby sister and no money or very little money, so I think that probably set the rot in our family. And then dad came back and as a kid, I thought it was all fine and wonderful, but we were very poor. We had nothing. We had no car, no fridge, no washing machine. And so I always felt pretty inadequate. And then when I went to secondary school, because I was quite bright, I was put in the top, the grammar stream, but I was the only kid from state housing, from Council housing. All the other children came from welfare homes. And I was tiny. I was a little girl and I always thought very inadequate, very, you know. Yeah. And one particular time, I was the only kid in the class that went home for school lunches because Mum couldn't afford to pay for school lunches for me. So I went home and I came back into the classroom. It was a wet day, so all the kids had come in early from the playground and I walked in and one girl and I will never, ever forget her name as long as I live. I will always hate her, in my head. She was standing pretended to be the teacher, writing on the blackboard, and then she was using this cloth to wipe it. And I suddenly realized it was my school raincoat that had been hanging on the back of my chair. And she was saying, this is all this rag is fit for using my raincoat. Well, you can imagine, as an eleven year old little girl that was horrendous. I somehow got through the afternoon. I went home and I was crying and I told Mum, and I remember her saying, Pat, you're just as good as them. Just because we don't have money, you're just as good as them. You're probably better. And that stuck in my head. But it didn't really help Judith, because as a kid, that's not what you want. So, when I was 14, I got a job delivering newspapers every morning before school just to earn some money so I could buy some clothes for myself because mom and dad couldn't afford it. So I guess all that and knowing that it was difficult, it was a difficult time, but I couldn't call it traumatic in all fairness, because other people go through real trauma. But it was just my life. But I was happy. I loved my family, but it didn't prepare me for life. Because when I got married for the first time and realized that people had bad tempers like my first husband, I couldn't deal with it because nobody in my house had ever shouted or got cross with anyone other than almost squabbling. So I wasn't prepared for real life at all.
JKO: Another thing that I discovered this morning from the reading was that people who are people pleasers end up with narcissists.
Pat Backley: Well, that's so true in my case.
JKO: Yeah. So people please ask us will go out of their way when it's inconvenient, so that they can feel happy that they are doing something for the person and narcissists withhold emotion. So when they give you just a tiny bit because you're a people pleaser, you're just elated.
Pat Backley: That's so true in my case, Judith.
JKO: And the third thing, they abuse. People who are people pleasers end up with narcissists, who abuse them, because when they abuse us, because I'm also a people pleaser, we now start trying to serve them more, do more. Like you said in your marriages, you kept working harder and harder trying to please make it work. And at the end, it still didn't work.
Pat Backley: Yes. And just one incident that won’t make you smile to show how much of a people please ran. I had a 50th birthday party at home in England three days before, this is my second husband, he announced he wanted a divorce. That's when I first found out about this other woman. So I was going to cancel my birthday party but he persuaded me by saying, oh, no, people are coming from abroad and blah, blah, blah. So I had it. So I was very miserable. I put on a nice dress and I tried to be all smiley, but you can tell by the photographs am very unhappy. Anyway, I had chosen a playlist, not that we call them that in those days. I've got a big pile of CDs ready to play the music because I love dancing and all the music was like Soul and Motown girl, because that's me. That's what I am. I'm a Soul and Motown girl. And so I had all this music ready. And halfway through the party, I realized it wasn't my music that was playing and I said to Graham, has someone changed my music? He said, oh, yeah, I did. He said, because I didn't like it. And he said, So I put on the Rolling Stones and meatloaf. And he said, People like it much better. It was my birthday, Judith, and I let him get away with it rather than arguing. So that kind of just sums it up, really. You can be such a people pleaser that you're almost encouraging people to treat you badly, but because you're in that situation and you want to make it work. Yeah, I probably should have therapy, but I'm kind of my own therapist. I've never had therapy. I've always just dealt with it myself.
JKO: Yes, you're writing, and now you're writing, too. And that's another form of therapy. So that's really like, I was just reading it and my mouth was agape, and I could see my life in words, another person's words, how we turn ourselves to doormats.
Pat Backley: Well, Interestingly, my daughter, who has turned into a lovely young woman. She has a man, and he is adorable and really very hopeful, but they have a love that's transparent. I spend time with them, and it makes my heart sing because he is so good to her, she's so good to him. And it's just a natural love, which is what I and I said to them the other day, I wish just once in my life I'd had to love like you to have. I'm so happy for her, because if it goes the distance, which I think it will, she's not going to have the heartache that I had.
JKO: I am glad you came through the heartache. And now you're using your heartache to spin out all these tales.
Pat Backley: Absolutely. And the lovely thing is, Judith, Lucy, my daughter, says to me quite often, Mum, you're so inspiring, my friend. You're so inspiring. And that's just lovely, because to know that I'm being a good role model is wonderful.
JKO: You are such an inspiration to me, and I think your story is an inspiration to many people. So instead of staying down in the dumps, you took your pain and you turned it to a purpose. Now your purpose is to write until you die.
Pat Backley: Absolutely. How good is that? So I can't die, soon.
JKO: You do a lot of work with your writing and everything. Could you just tell us a little bit more about the things you do and what we're expecting from you?
Pat Backley: Yes, I used to volunteer with the Salvation Army to visit old people. I just answered a little tiny advert that said, can you spare an hour a week to visit an old person? And I thought, oh, I can do that. That was ten years ago now when I first came to New Zealand, basically they just come and interview, make sure you're a suitable person, and then they just send you a little postcard with the person's name on and like, John is 93, lives alone, blah, blah, blah, and his address and you have to go and see them yourself. So that's tricky because you're going to meet this total stranger, an older person, in their home. So anyway, I did it and my first chap, I won't say his real name. He was very closed up. His wife had left him when she turned 60 and he turned 70. She said, I don't want to nurse an old man. I'm off. So he gave her a whole pile of money to buy herself a house and she went. So he was very sad and lonely. He'd been on his own ten years when I met him and he just had his little cat. So we became really good friends and I used to take him out of my car and stuff. And then I had a lady who was again very quiet, very dignified, lovely. And so I saw her as well. And then they found me and they said, oh, we have this wonderful lady that we're really sure that you'd like and we know you're already doing two days, but could you spare a third day? And she's only a very short term commitment because she's 96. So I said, okay, okay. Anyway, I met this lady. Now, she is a wonderful role model. She was about this big, less than 5ft tall. She had grown up on a farm, the youngest of six children, but never wanted to be involved in farming. So when she was 16, back in the 1920s, she persuaded her parents to let her travel right up to the top of the country to train as a waitress. That was her ambition, to be a waitress. So she learned silver service and got some jobs. And by the time she was 24, she was quite established as a waitress, very happy. Then she met her husband. And in those days, women were obliged when they got married to give up their jobs in England and New Zealand too, married women didn't work. It was a different time, Judith. It was kind of the dark ages. Anyway, when I met her, she'd been a widow for 50 years, so she spent all that time on her own. But she was the most inspiring lady. She couldn't go out of the house anymore because she'd had some falls. But we used to laugh and talk and for hours and hours I take her lunch. By the time she died, she was 103. So it wasn't a very short term commitment at all, like seven years. But she was so inspiring. I used to go and visit her and she'd say, oh, do you like my new dress? She would order clothes online. And one day, two weeks before she died, she was wearing a beautiful skirt. And I said, Rita, I love your skirt. She had no money. She just lived on the pension or she said, I know, it's very nice to see it. I bought three, she said, because I was running a bit short on skirts. She was 103, and she was still buying clothes because she thought she was running short on skirts. And she colored her own hair because she didn't want to look old. I mean, that was an inspiring woman. She had nothing, but she lived life to the absolute full. And so, yeah, so that was my volunteering, and I did a bit of mentoring for young, troubled kids as well. I haven't done anything for the last two years because we've been in lockdown. But I am on the list of doing something called inspiring future, which is where you go into schools and you talk to kids about what you do and say you inspire them, that there are other jobs that they might not have thought about. But I haven't been able to do one of those school talks because they've been constantly canceled because of it. But I'm looking forward to that. That will be good. I love talking to young people.
JKO: One of the things I have found out in my life is the power of volunteering. When you're going through a hard time, it's very empowering. It kind of gives you strength. It builds your core so that you can go through the things that you're going through. Another thing that volunteering does is not just building our core, it's motivating us. You think you're helping the person, but you're actually helping yourself as well. The person is also helping you.
Pat Backley: Absolutely. And I think just to see that other people have worse problems than you, that's very good, because you think, oh, for goodness sake, Pat, stop moaning. You could be this.
JKO: So where can they get your books?
Pat Backley: There's Daisy. There's the Second Daisy, From There to Here with an Awful lot in Between, which is my memoir. And of course, there's the fabulous Warrior Women book. They're all available on Amazon. In fact, if you just type in my name now, they seem to pop up, which is nice, just Pat Backley and obviously my website, which is just www.patbackley.com. All the links are on there. So I'm pretty easy to find now, which is good.
JKO: On the show notes, we'll have all the links to Pat's books and Pat's website. And there's something really good that Pat is offering over the pandemic. All her books. Daisy, The Second Daisy. And From Here to There with an Awful Lot in Between, those three books at $0.99. So the digital copies are $0.99 all through the pandemic. That's the price. So if you want to grab one of those to get a sample of her writing, please go ahead and leave a review. Please leave a review so she can know how you enjoyed it. Talk about the characters you like, what you like to see more of. Because she has another set that's coming out very soon. I'm going to put the links to her social media also in the show notes. So Pat, can you give us one for the road? For somebody who has been rejected by a significant order, somebody who thinks I'm too old to do XYZ, I can't dream anymore, my time has gone. Can you tell a woman who is crying, like you said, crying every night on the staircase? Can you talk to her and encourage her, please?
Pat Backley: I think I just have to say just don't give up. Your life is worth so much and you just never know what's around the corner. I've now got a picture that I keep on my desk because myself when I was eleven years old and I was happy, but I wasn't fulfilled. I've got a funny, very badly cut fringe because we couldn't afford to go to the hairdresser. So mom did it and I'm wearing a second hand dress. So I purposely have it on my desk. So I talked to that little girl and I say, Pat, don't worry, life is going to be hard. You're going to have lots of awful things, but you will come out at the end stronger, better heaps of experience. And along the way, if you can help people, that's what life is. It's full of ups and downs, ups and downs. And you just have to try and remember that when you're in that down, there will be an up. You know, the sun will shine tomorrow or they might be cloudy, but the sun will come up and just don't give up because you really just don't know what's around the corner. I mean, I look back now and I wonder sometimes how I got through those things because some of them work really hard. But I did. And here I am now, aged almost 71, a published author, having a lovely time, really. And if I'd given up along the way, I would never have known the joy I know today. Just try not to give up, however hard it is, because there will be something else around the corner.
JKO: Pat is a published author, four times over within two years. She's a real inspiration. And I want to say thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you for coming out on the podcast to give us a snapshot of the life you've lived and how far you've come. You are such an inspiration and also you're such a happy soul and you spread this joy like magic dust everywhere you go. Thank you so much for being here today.
Pat Backley: You made me cry, Judith. Thank you very much. It's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much.
JKO: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Messy Can’t Stop Her. If you're a woman who is listening, I want you to know that messy could not stop Pat, so messy can’t stop you. And if you have a story to tell please, DM me. My link will be in the show notes as well so that we can have you come out to the Messy Can’t Stop Her podcast to encourage one woman, to encourage more than one woman because the world needs to hear your story. The world is waiting for your story.
Have a good day and see you next time. Bye you.
References
https://www.nycitywoman.com/ari-cohen-photographing-the-stylish-elderly/