EP 24: Emin Gadzhiyev Aka Cerebral Empire | Building an Empire In The Realm Of Jewelry Magic

Born outside the Smokey Mountains in Tennessee- Emin is a first generation American and a second generation metalsmith.

Hailing from Azerbaijan- Emin's father Farkhad was a gold/silversmith and chainsmith for decades. Upon moving to America, Farkhad seeked work as a dental technician due to the profession similarities- and lack of job availability as a jeweler for him there.

Emin has now relit the torch to carry on his blood's craft into the New Age. With the new opportunies and technologies of this modern world- he aims to create wearable art- the likes of which this World has yet to experience.

The cortex of Cerebral Empire- Emin does all of the sculpting, casting and most of the polishing of the pieces you see here.

Connect w/ Emin

Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/cerebral_empire/

Website:
https://cerebralempire.com/

Transcript

Bill: 0:00

What up, y'all welcome back to the William Arthur show. We are here with my brother. And mean a how do you pronounce your last name? And mean got Jiv my brother from another mother, a fellow jewelry, magician, a board game Xtrordinair. ploy, wizard flow artists wizard. Uh, Jack of many trades. Uh, super grateful to be here and have you on the show. Welcome.

emin: 0:28

Thank you

Bill: 0:29

We also have Samson here. Samsung. joining The party for the F for the first podcast. of his. So he's our third guest. He's definitely not going to be charming. in, but he'll be hanging out and exploring. the area since it's his first time up here. So if you're listening, that's irrelevant, but. He's with us. the energy is There. Um, dude. Yeah. Thanks for being here. I've had a ton of fun. Just hanging out with you and collab and getting in the lab. I mean, it's got to come check out the studio and, and. And meet Jacob, some of the jeweler Cindy kid, and, uh, you know, we've been able to delve into. Some, creative collaborative projects together and start to craft up some, some magic. It's been really great to just get to know you more. I know we've had a couple experiences. The first time we met. Uh, well, a couple experiences previously together. Uh, both in festivals settings. First time we met it was resonance music festival last year, September, which was a really great time. We totally got shafted on the camping. We got, we got put like, way outside the normal realm of camping area. And we had to just track a massive amount of distance to get to the music, but it is what it is. We are with a good crew of people. And then the second time we got to connect was this year in August at music festival. and Then we got to spend some, some time after. So it's cool to finally, like, not be in some, you know, a crazy. Overwhelming festival experience with each other and just connect one-on-one. and, uh, get to know each other in that way.

emin: 2:03

Yeah. As much as I love the festivals and connecting with people at festivals, I feel like it's so much. Develop a way more intimate connection, just hanging out outside of that social setting. And Just like actually. diving deep, getting to know each other, getting no work on. Things of interest together in like, you know, the studio, super grateful to be able to check out your space. It's amazing. Yeah. I've been having hella fun here. Thanks for hosting me,

Bill: 2:30

yes, sir. Um, so to, for a starting point, I feel like it would be cool. To explore. where your, where you believe your creativity emerged, you know, like where were the first seeds planted? Um, you being someone that kinda. Lives unconventionally and sees things unconventionally and seems to like want to dive in, dedicate yourself to something that you can elaborate on with your mind and dive into the intricacies of. A particular practice. Cause you know, you have your flow arts, which seems like you've been taking some space from, but I knew that was like a huge part of your life. So, you know, it could have been in high school with art classes or some sort of particular early childhood experience, but I'd be curious to hear like What is it that has led you to be this person that is super interested and intrigued by. Um, working with your hands and just being a creative individual in general. Uh, where, where did that emerge for you?

emin: 3:30

Yeah. I guess even like before myself, like. My father is also always like a super creative person. He always loved to like draw and paint and like, He's the one he made jewelry back in the day. So that's always just kinda been like in my DNA. I feel like my mom does sewing. So they've both been just kind of like creatives in the terms of like jobs. They did always. Um, I've always been like a creative kid growing up. I like to draw and just like make art all the time. Uh, as I started maturing, I started like struggling with like, Like pursuing art as a career or being more creative all the time, putting time into it. Just from like a developmental stance of like, you know, being a teenager. It's being experimental in like, Wanting to socialize. And then also just not, uh, you know, being stressed about my future and like being pressured in a certain direction. So. I've had like, stints in my development where I was not creative for large periods of time. Um, And then I got introduced to ploy and that really like. Captivated me and made me want to like, Get really good at something creative again. And Paul is just so great in general, just connects your mind, your body in so many ways. And like it was a great exercise and practice to have. But yeah, I started diving more deeply into like different flow arts and then, um, Basically. I got into a well before then. I actually was attempted to pursue jewelry. Um, I had acquired like a large sum of money and like moved out to Boulder to start like practicing fabrication and stuff. Um, quickly realize wouldn't be able to sustain that for long enough to like learn and implement and develop a business around all of that. On top of me and my, uh, My ex partner, we're having like issues when we'd moved there together. So I was like, this isn't working. I moved back to Tennessee. Um, Then at my friends, we're starting like a ploy business together where they were selling. Um, I spend point, I also spend contact staff, juggling staff, stuff like that. So. I had the idea to start like 3d printing staff NS, essentially, and, uh, incorporate that into the business model. So we started selling stabs as well. Um, that got me into like 3d modeling and using CAD and like 3d printing. Um, so did that for probably eight or nine years. Um, and then just kind of hit like a plateau in terms of like, My interest in developing that craft anymore, as well as like how far I could take my business with that. Um, I have, you know, like drop shipping and wholesale with all these different businesses, but in terms of where I can get. Myself. Uh, and whenever I want to be sustainably and financially in my life, I feel like I've hit the limit with like flow arts. So I felt like. It was a good time to just kind of, uh, take my eggs out of that basket and put them in something else I've always been interested in, which was jewelry. and a. Yeah. I'd love to like 3d got into 3d sculpting probably five years ago. That's been like, So fulfilling to just be able to like, create any idea that comes into my mind and. like actualize it and like get it exactly how I want it. And. It's just uh, blows my mind, the technologies we have nowadays and like how humans have. Developed this over seemingly a very short period of time. Um, But, yeah, that's just kind of, a, what led me to what I'm doing now. And, uh, I'm feeling very creatively inspired now and just like. Like there is no ceiling to. How the skill nor the creativeness of what I'm doing now, that'll ever like, feel like I get sick of it, but I could be wrong, you know? People are different. want to change all the time. and Yeah.

Bill: 7:38

Yeah. Every year is so different. And as we change our interests change and the things you want to pursue. and. it's wild, how malleable and plastic our experience can be of ourselves. and who we are. And, um, it's really cool to see other people pursuing. Freedom through their craft and. So I know we briefly talked earlier about you working like a conventional job. Um, as you were going through high school, I imagine these things pop in your mind, like, oh, how am I going to acquire income? Like, am I, am I going to. you know, be a dishwasher, like a delivery guy or things like that. Sometimes those things pop into mind. Did you, as you were, you know, going through your high school experience those early. Formative years. Did you, have any inkling of interest going like the normal conventional, like, okay, I'm going to go to a four year school and learn this thing and, and get a degree. where there were those seeds planted in you by your parents or society in any way. I mean, they were for all of us, I imagine. Cause that's the main, way of moving forward with life after high school, uh, that's taught to us within, you know, the high school paradigm, you know, your counts, just like, oh, what are you going to do after? Are you going to apply for these schools and things like that? Um, so w was that in your mind going through the high school process or where you very early on, like, I'm going to do something for myself and I'm going to carve my own way. And, and, and I have the capacities to build my own business and create my own freedom in my life. Or, or where were you at at that point in your life?

emin: 9:15

Yeah. So I think. Deeply. Intertwines with like my self image, a lot of it, because originally I had no belief in myself to. Not from like a skill perspective, but of like others valuing me. Cause I guess I didn't value myself. I couldn't see it. Um, so yeah. Like pressured early on, went to university. Flunked out of it before the end of the semester. It didn't flunk out just like withdrew, but I was not doing well. I didn't, I didn't want to be there for one. I was just like pushed into doing it. Uh, went to community college. Did a bunch of that for like, uh, Science general science degree never finished it because I didn't see a point in it. Then I started pursuing a veterinary technician degree online. Stop pursuing that. because, well, at the time then I was, um, I was really fixated on like somehow starting my own rescue or like being involved with animals in some way. Like I wanted to help animals. That's what. Even beyond being a creative that's like, I feel like. I couldn't get there in my journey. But like, I feel like at some point, my path will diverged back to helping animals. in

Bill: 10:32

Yeah, for sure.

emin: 10:33

Aside from that. Yeah. I tried to get a veterinary technician degree. I was like, this is a shit load of work for not that much pay at the end of the day. Like, why am I doing this? I can help animals in other ways, other than like, Being a nurse for them in a private practice, you know, like. is that really where I see myself 10, 20 years? So all these, like, Basically. Moments of like succumbing to the pressures of society. drove me down these like pathways, but I always like. Had came out of them, trying to be just like. My own boss basically. but

Bill: 11:08

notice they were out of alignment. Yeah. Yeah. You caught yourself, you notice something didn't feel right about the particular experience or you weren't interested. And it's interesting how some people just continue to let those pressures of society and still, um, succumb to them and not really like do some actual self-reflection and realize like, this definitely is not what I want to do. Um, yet. we're like, okay, this is. This is the safe route. This is what people do. This is what has conventionally worked for others. So that's fascinating that you recognize that and then decided to choose differently and explore outside of that and create something for yourself.

emin: 11:45

Yeah, absolutely. There's um, And now, obviously there's nothing wrong with those. Career paths like. People got to do them. Someone's got to do everything, but like, I feel I can terms of like what I've woken up within my mind is like, More or less than like the average person. And like, I just like am too aware of certain things others might be ignorant about and live happily, but I just like can't. At this point.

Bill: 12:13

There's no choice.

emin: 12:14

Yeah. But yeah, it's always. I'm a definitely don't struggle with that anymore. see my worth and value very much so very. proud of like my skill set and what I'm able to accomplish and just. Yeah, coming more into myself. As I grow, I feel like which is a good feeling. Always like. Struggled with a lot of things growing up depression and anxiety, but like, just, um, it feels nice to be like, Growing upward and, uh, like seeing the like work put into that pay off over time and just other different ways. It's amazing.

Bill: 12:53

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Um, My path was similar and parallels yours in a few different ways. I had, I knew. Before I even went to college that that's not really what I wanted to do, but I decided to explore it because that's what I was told was right. And that, and that's what most people. were doing. And there was some ink inklings of it that seemed like it could have been fun and, and valuable and, and give me something to latch onto and to create for myself some sort of education or a degree, not really the degree, but I knew I was very creative. and I feel that. uh, my early experimentation with psychedelics and cannabis and. things along these lines, although not conscious whatsoever, definitely like opened me up to ask more questions about myself. and we've been having. Some conversation like this. So like I could see through these decisions that people were making in this construct that, um, was in place in front of us. Like most of my peers and myself in terms of like, okay, this is what you do. This is the conventional means of moving forward with yourself. If You get the education, you get the four year degree. And I, yeah, I want to UWM a local university here And I mean, it was great for the fact that like I got to party and hang out with a bunch of people my age, and like live in a dormitory, surrounded by my peers and things like that. And there was, there was lots of fun aspects there. And I just remember, you know, going through the prereq requisites as most people do as, as you start, you know, a four year university experience. And then, you know, I was like looking for every possible route within, you know, where can I go with this? Where is this going to lead? Like what. What, what is this four years going to do for me? I remember just like scouring, you know, um, what was available to me within what UWM had had to offer. And they did have a jewelry program. Um, and I was wire wrapping at the time and I was making music. So I was fairly creative music was the first thing I thought I was gonna, You know, take all the way. And like, this is what I want to do with my life. Um, And, and jewelry was in the picture. I was wire wrapping and going to shows and selling those things. And, and, and, you know, the music festival culture is really what opened me up to. Um, My self-expression and my creativity and like unconventional means of seeing things and seeing things differently in that there was culture outside of mainstream culture that like, I felt like I fit into and people that were truly like on a C. Uh, in a seeking process, like seeking out. who they are. you know, what can life really be things along these lines. So like, all these influences were circulating within my life. Uh, while I was, you know, from like age 16. going to UWM for one semester, but ultimately I was like, what the fuck am I doing here? Like, why would I go to get a F why would I go to school for four years? Do all these prerequisites. I don't really apply to what I do. And then take a jewelry program that is likely subpar. And Not that there's anything wrong with the EWM jewelry program, but it came across schools like new approach, which you're going to be gone to relatively soon and Revere academy. And. um, I was like, that's, that's gotta be, yeah, that's gotta be my next step. So. uh, thank God I have, you know, a mother and a support system that really just always unconditionally supported me in what I wanted to do. So after that first semester, I'm like, fuck this. I'm out of here. And, uh, went to new approach from there. So it's interesting how many people these days are going to get four year. degrees and then like ending up in a place where they're not really happy. Usually going through this experience, ending up in debt and then. Not even being able to get like a well paying job in, in the field and degree that they had been studying. So it's like fascinating to see that. the pitfalls of, you know, the current paradigm. Uh, with education and then I I'm just reflecting on. what was it in my life that allowed me to see through that and like paralleling yours as well. There was just things you were recognizing within yourself and and then you may, you took action on those things. Cause it can be easy to just like deny. And push away. And it makes me think about what is it about some people that continue to push that away? And then what is it about others that allow them to see this thing and then see. see. their interests and see through the bullshit of conventional. ways of moving through life and these different milestones or whatever, and, and different like achievements or um, Career paths. Et cetera. Um, shit, I'm kind of losing my train of thought. and I'm

emin: 18:02

good.

Bill: 18:02

tangent here, but

emin: 18:04

I think fear is a big part of that. You know, Where it's like. some people are just scared of either their parents' opinions or, you know, The survival instinct is too fear-based and strong to like not to do something they're uncertain about. Um, Yeah, I've just, I've never been. Super scared of like those kinds of situations. I've always been kind of like instinctually based and, um, I've definitely been stressed about like money. in the past, But like, I never let it determine. My path. As a person, I think. And that's Like a big part of it, but, um, It's also, it's like the paradox of like, you know, like. Me identifying myself with what I do. And some people might do that less and they don't care as much what they do for work. And. um, have less ego about it and they just do it to get money to survive. But, um, I feel like even beyond the ego, it's just like, what do I want to do day to day? That makes me happy. You know, like, and, uh, gone test it. A lot of things. I feel like that's the best way to find what you enjoy. But yeah. it's a Great. Great opportunity. We have to be able to do what we do. It's super fun. and just rewarding. And. Um, inspiring to others.

Bill: 19:24

Yeah, that's interesting. It's like, what is it that it can be as simple as what makes me happy. And sometimes it's really hard to find something that makes you happy. And then turn it into something that's going to support you. Financially. that's such. A blessing to be able to do that for sure. And that leads me to another question. How do you, um, so in terms of your artwork and your offering and what you're crafting within the jewelry realm, Uh, where do you see it providing purpose for yourself, society and the world? What are your personal views on that? What is that? That perspective that allows you, like, what is your, why within, it all? Like, what are the first things that come to mind? Some of the most prevalent. and the things that allow you to, you know, keep. That fire going. And, uh, just to keep the ball rolling and to feel really good and meaningful in what you do. And I have a bunch of my own. You know, ideas on what that is for me, but I'd love to hear what it is for you.

emin: 20:25

Absolutely. Yeah. I guess starting with myself, um, I always want to feel like very much a fulfillment and a satisfaction from anything. I create that I've. Done. the most of my capabilities and making it as amazing as I can. And just like. Making sure. It's like all lying to me so that it's all going to others, not, you know, just not settling for something in terms of like how much time it takes to design or anything. Um, in terms of like what I want, like for others to perceive of it. Yeah. Just like. Pushing the envelope and creativity of. How they've perceived the art in certain ways, you know, and just like. showing people, things like interesting and unique to them and just like. Really. it can like make someone's day, you know, seeing something that's just like so connected to like, Um, Different archetypes of our existence. and like executed into like metal. It's just like, Tell us it's like, can be science, like very science-y sometimes we're in depth with our process, but you know, when you're not inside of an artistic process, it's just like magic. And I think That's like super, Like I can like overlook that sometimes, but trying to view it from like others' perspectives, like, does this invoke like a sense of magic in our world? Because sometimes. life can just seem like. Super. Not like the magic's not there sometimes, you know? And it's like, are we just like floating on a rock? And. this is all just By accident or. like, is this like purpose kind of thing? Um, And sane those two things also apply to the world, you know, just showing people like incredible art and just like, it's hard because our it's like. Not a necessity. One could view it as such, you know, but our it's always existed. and it brings a lot of value to people's lives.

Bill: 22:24

Yeah. Yeah. there's tons there. Um, Yeah, just the simple fact of. How art and like something that's aesthetically beautiful. can shift something within side of someone. That's so cool. And, and to invoke a sense of magic. Um, and to Brit to pull someone out of the monotony or something that, you know, a paradigm they are experiencing or like imposing on to. um, how they're experiencing their own life, seeing something beautiful, a painting or music, evoking emotion, and literally little internal shifts that it can make and how that can provide a. um, a brighter experience for another individual and inspire them like, okay. This is amazing. This is, this thing is possible. Uh, the it's kinda mysterious, you know, when you get to see something that you don't truly understand, but it still resonates and just feels really good in terms of like, How it looks and the message it's conveying and, um, all these sorts of things that can be, uh, That can circulate within a piece of art or piece of jewelry.

emin: 23:36

Yeah. It blows my mind to still it's like these, these pieces, we're creating a specific with jewelry. It will be like here after we are You they're going to be here for like, centuries to come potentially. And that's just like so incredible, you know, like creating these like relics that will like outlive us and carry these energies into like future generations and like, I think that's like, hard to still wrap my mind around. because I'm just started making things, but like, I think as I get older and seeing these things just like remain, this is going to be like very powerful. reenergizing.

Bill: 24:13

That is powerful and. Yeah. The fact that the materials it is constituted of can carry it through time and through ages and. Multiple fucking lifetimes. You know, we have ancient Egyptian jewelry, which I look at that shit. I'm like, how did they produce these things without. power tools? I know the Egyptians were definitely like. You know ahead of their time, but, um, your work is a reflection of you and your unique perspective on life and the world. And like your unique love that you have to offer. And everyone has their own one of a kind fingerprint. And to like communicate that through your art is such a cool process and something that's so cool to witness through the different symbolism and imagery and. and. sculpture and how you bring all these variables together and how you can. convey a message through your work and, and how that can imprint on another individual. So really art. raises consciousness and art also, circulates through culture and impacts culture. So it is a way to like, it's very functional. If you think about, it's not just like. you know, it is. can simply just be like a beautiful thing depending on how you look at it. But they are also functional objects that do have, you know, tons of positive impact on. Our ourselves and the world. And, you know, all of that love, we, we pour into our work and all that hard work and energy. And, um, and like the infinite amount of exploration that can be opened up within our craft is so cool. Just to continuing to. take things to the next level and show people what's really possible in terms of working with your hands and with a specific set of materials. And. Yeah, it's just a blessing to be able to create in this way and have fun with it. That's, you know, a huge thing about, uh, working on art for me is being able to. Have fun as much as possible. and really like test my capacities and see. What it's taught me about myself in terms of like what I'm capable of. you know, going through all these different processes within jewelry, art, and learning, and cultivating all these skills and then building a fucking business and marketing the work to sell it. Uh, I would be curious to hear. Your experience with, you know, building businesses and, and how you view it as it's something that you kind of like have resistance to. I'm sure there's some parts, but for me, I've also been able to. To view it as another. Creative outlet, how I piece these things together, how I'm creating this real to get more engagement and get more. Eyes on my work and kind of like dissecting the market and seeing, seeing what's working, like, what is, what is it that, uh, is invoking more, viewership things along these lines. So I'd be curious to hear. Your perspective on that whole part of, you know, your craft and what you're doing.

emin: 27:16

Yeah, absolutely. So, as I'd mentioned, Like Began 3d printing and selling like staff. ends and building stabs. So that like early in the time of Building. our brand shapeshift together. Did a lot of like, posting on social media, which for that is marketing essentially. And then, um, God. To a point where I wanted to extend what I was doing to wholesale for other companies that create fro Florence props. So I would begin. Um, I got this. Uh, when my biggest clients. flow on fire. They had put in like multi thousand dollar orders that fulfill them for like all these different staff. ends of all the colors and led versions. Um, got dropped shipping. Set up with ultra, which is like, Second biggest led point. Company in America. So like, I'm feel like I'm pretty business savvy naturally. I always have been. but it's, a little bit of a different beast with jewelry. because the floor its market is very niche. And. It's the ceiling for how much you can do. They're smaller, but it's easier. It's more easy to penetrate, more accessible. Versus jewelry. There's so many people making jewelry on so many different levels. It's, uh, it's, it's takes much more time. I feel like to develop yourself and they're just highly expensive objects. You have to. If you like develop a reputation as well over time with being able to handle these people's large sums of money for these expensive objects. Uh, But I've been really enjoying, like building out my jewelry website. um, figuring out the aesthetic for my brand. All those things have been really fun and just like refreshing after like, Uh, working, just doing shapeshift for so long. And just something I have like complete control over has been really powerful for myself. Uh, still just trying to figure out, I guess, like, A system by which I can create content. um, and just like have it out there recording my process is like something I'm trying to do more of now, which is. Always difficult. Cause I always just sit down and start doing the thing and I'm like, oh, I should be recording this. And then that's like, Just another weird thing that I'm not used to, but, um, Been a, it's been a lot of fun. Overall, just like. Learning. Like what it takes in this day and age to like run an online business and I'm starting to get that implemented. Uh, The guy I have dropshipping set up with. We've talked about this little he's helping me set up all my e-commerce stuff and like, Add like search engine optimization. So like, Just, I'm just kind of being patient right now and letting the pieces fall into place. Um, really, I. I don't want to rush it. I want to make sure, you know, I have. Uh, a large, maybe two to three times. The uh, portfolio I have on the website. currently. So just like a larger portfolio. and. Um, just fine tuning my process a little more.

Bill: 30:30

Yeah. There's tons of layers to it. It's fucking wild. I mean, even for me being seven. eight years in, even more, if we include. My wire wrapping years, which That's when I First started to dabble with. Building my brand on Instagram. I used to go buy interstellar artifacts. And I used to sell pins and like a bunch of other random trinkets for, Heidi boys And stuff. because that was totally in that realm. And that's where I emerged from, you know, EDM culture and. festival culture. And you know, that sort of. realm of human beings, which was very supportive of the type of stuff I was doing, but it's really cool to see how it's really expanded even. you know, past that and how, like, my business has been able to hit on multiple. different markets. Um, but yeah, like I was saying, it's fucking, it goes deep and and that's why I'm also considering. Making this investment in myself and in my business, working with a business. Consultation company, uh, who specifically focused on focuses on building, um, online educational programs, plus just full. Business build out, um, you know, in terms of like, Automated emails and creating like a lead magnet. So like a free product to acquire people's emails and then create an email list from that, which. These are things I'm just not even utilizing. I've been aware of some of these things, but it's like to be one individual and someone that really only wants to focus on a few particular things at once. And it's been nice to like dip my hands and all the different areas. And. Gain the experience of like, um, Going through this process of seeing what works and what doesn't pressing different buttons and pulling different levers and just, um, experimenting, which like. That's that can be a great way of doing it, but ultimately like we're creators and we love to just like facilitate new ideas and bring things to life. And business is one of them, but like for me personally, um, to like have someone that their unique genius is developing. Businesses and maybe helping online entrepreneurs or artists do the thing that is like, seems to be ideal for me at this point. Cause I feel like what the foundation I've built. I'm just missing out on a bunch of opportunity because I don't have all these other means of marketing and getting my work out there and all these different, you know, outlets that I could be pursuing, just cause I haven't. worked with someone and I don't care to like. Figure out how to design, like in depth websites and stuff like that. I work on. I have mine on Squarespace right now, which works great for the time being, but it hasn't been fucking updated in like five years. And yeah, it's just tough being a single individual. Um, you know, getting a grasp on all these different things at the same time fun, because I like the challenge of. You know, having to learn. so many different things and, um, and, and proving to myself that I can do it. And I do find interest in, uh, just learning new skills and stuff. As we know because fucking jewelry is. just an endless abyss of doing

emin: 33:46

Oh, yeah, dude. Yeah. I feel like it's really easy to disregard, like. Hiring marketing help or e-commerce. help. However you want to look at it. Um, people think. You know, And a lot of people can just build a presence. This day and age. over social media. But a lot of things in those that ecosystem has changed over the past, like few years to where. you know, it's much harder now to build a business organically, just posting on social media. Like these companies are aware that there. Bottleneck. people and to Basically paying for the services to make money. Cause they realize like, You know, X percentage of the people on here, that's all they're trying to do. Not necessarily all they're trying to do. We're obviously trying to connect with other amazing artists and just share our work. But at the end of the day, we are trying to run a business and like make it sustainable so we can keep doing what we love. Um, so yeah, it's just, and those there's people, these people like, you know, I've gone to school for these things. They specialize in these things. So like as a creative, trying to undertake these things would just be a huge, like, D routing of like our initial goal. You know,

Bill: 34:59

Yeah. Where is your energy best focus? That's a good question to ask yourself and, and think about. You know, And a lot of the times it comes down to like a fear-based decision of like, oh, I have to spend this amount of money on this. To work with this person. When in reality, if you look at the exponential outcome of what that will turn into, that's like where you should be focusing instead of like, oh, this single stagnant, you know, static dollar amount that. Um, I have to spend and really it's an investment, so it's like you're pouring it back into yourself and it's going to come back. Uh, Tenfold. Um, but yeah, like most of the artists in our realm, at least, you know, the crazy unconventional type of jewelry. We're making our, like all self-build, which is really fucking cool. And it's also amazing to see how far this type of work has come. with the help of, you know, basically just all the buzz and energy from the collective of people, just like really pushing the envelope. With the art and people like Ryan Ray Bach, who owns the crown collection and does all the PR stuff and works out of Los Angeles and is getting it in front of a whole bunch of other people's eyes, making it culturally relevant. And You got people like Everett, wheat horn and Dalen Hargrave, Who's an O G who and body Austin. And all these guys are like, winning spectrum awards. You know, the top level jewelry competition in the world, which is super fucking sick. It's kind of like a, a Renaissance of, of jewelry, this like new paradigm that's emerging. That's been emerging, you know, um, Chris Sur, he started. Making this type of shit, like early two thousands. So it's been circulating for quite some time, but. The evolution of it and like, and what's possible now just making whatever you want to make and making what like truly resonates with you and how, like you can find a pocket of the market to. Thrive on is, is super sick. And. That's what sweet, like you don't have to conform. You can really like do what the fuck you want to do. And that's where the magic is. I feel. And that's where you get you're going to thrive and build the most is like, Fuck trends. Fuck all that shit. Fuck trying to like imitate and blah, blah, blah. And of course we all go through that process of like emulating and seeing what's working for others and trying new things and implementing someone else's doing. But along that path, you, uh, you know, your own unique vision will emerge and it's cool to. to see that, um, That it would be cool for you to dive in, you know, some of your main sources of inspiration for the direction of your work. I know we've talked about, you know, your psychedelic experiences and how that's impacted. The year spiritual orientation and how you've implemented and weave that into your artwork. So I feel like that would be a cool place to dive into.

emin: 37:48

Yeah. Yeah. Very much like as you. Was. Rio woken through like festival music, festival culture, all the arts I saw through that, you know, just like. Completely rewired me too. I feel like who I am like aiming to be in, want to be as a person. Um, Yeah, a lot. Growing up was very into like fantasy and like mythical things that has a great influence on like my art today. And really just trying to combine, I feel like anything we make, it's like. An expression of some amalgamation of our experiences and, uh, somewhere. In the world, there are people who have the same amalgamations and these things will resonate with them, you know, naturally. So it's not even a question of like, If others will like it, it's just like which, which pieces have the vibration that resonates with certain people's experience. whole vibrations. Um, Yeah. Very much inspired by like psychedelic art and just like futuristic art. Um, I love like, uh, Japanese art as well. Like I love like the style of ma anime and those stylized cartoony things. I love cartoons. Um, and just trying to kind of cross those worlds where things look. Realistic, but also like other worldly, I feel like it's very cool. It's very, uh, Invoking of like, A sense of like magic in this world and stuff.

Bill: 39:31

hell yeah. Yeah, it's cool to watch your work unfold and. develop. And it's cool to see like how keen your eye for design is. And I recognize this in jewelry artists, like. There's just, there's certain timeless. Um, elements of like, what is an aesthetically beautiful, like across the board, it's just inherently beautiful in terms of balance of color or weight. Things along these lines and, and that's like really important to hit on. You know, you have things like the Fibonacci sequence that like emerge in nature and these things that are just inherently beautiful to the human eye and to our own. Perception. It seems like some people kind of just naturally have that. And I'm sure it's not naturally it's from like an amalgamation of the experiences and the things you've observed over time, whether it's ardor. You know, through the other creations and. um, things along those lines that you had. um, you know, witnessed yourself. But. Just with design and, um, what really makes something truly beautiful. Of course, it's like a mix of like subjectivity. Um, have you done any exploration into like traditional training in design or is it more so you're just like, you're just having fun and you kinda like. You're making things and you're like, this feels and looks great in terms of balance and all these different elements that come together to make something that is aesthetically beautiful.

emin: 41:01

Yeah. Aye. Get early on in my, um, Interest in digital sculpting. I would watch hours and hours of people just sculpting on YouTube. Um, they would just be like live recording their, um, sculpting sessions. And really just honing in on like, you know, how do I create this form? How do I create this form? Um, I feel like a lot of art. Um, whether artists want to admit it or not is very like technical, you know, like we're executing on certain techniques that we've learned to achieve certain results. And the creative aspect of that is really just like, what am I making? You know, like, what's my idea. But, um, aside from that, and you know, we're executing. Technical techniques, whether it's drawing a certain line or curve shading. Stippling, uh, you know, like whatever it may be. So I'm just really intentionally trying to learn what techniques to use, to execute and achieve certain design results. And aside from that, it's always like an experimental thing. Like prior to sculpting, like. The human former face never doing it. I go into it and it's like very experimental. Um, but just sitting with it. Messing with it until I'm, uh, achieved a design that, uh, I like visually think is appealing. And I think others will think is appealing. Um, Yeah, super inspired by like people who do. Digital sculpting for like a tabletop miniature games and stuff. It's just like, Next level, the. What these people can create and like the speed at which they can create their workflows is just like, extremely expiring to see like there's whole. There's people who like, um, they basically sell like, Uh, 3d model files on their patriarch for people to print, to play like board games. and tabletop Games. And, you know, they'll have thousands of Patrion subscribed to their monthly releases of these incredible sculpts they're always making and just. I was always really inspired by that. Just like the creative freedom. Those people were allotted by this like group of people who just love their work. You know, it's like this exists in this day. Like that's so inspiring. you know? And like, We can all achieve that kind of thing. If we like push hard enough and like work on like things we want to

Bill: 43:25

right. Yeah. What aspect of your process right now, because you're relatively new in the industry and within jewelry arts, what do you feel has been the aspect of it that you have the most resistance to. And like, where do you feel? The strongest and, and most naturally inclined. Where, where, what are those two points for you?

emin: 43:48

Yeah. Um, Very much, I guess the hardest part for me now is just like, Dealing with the fact that I can't, you know, like. Elaborate on my pieces past a point of casting and finishing them, I can't do inlay or set stone. So I get like, Imposter syndrome sometime like, I'm even a Juul or, you know, like, and it's like, I guess technically not. because I don't work with Juul. so I'd be like, I guess more considered amount of metal Smith, but. That term jewelry is so like diluted anyway. You know, like someone can own a jewelry shop and not even work with stones or metal and consider themselves a jeweler. So. I know that's not a legitimate. Thought to give attention to in my mind. but. I'm very much so eager to like implement more multi-material aspects into my work to just like. Accentuate upon it. There's not really a part of my process that I'm too, like, I don't, I don't want to do this right now. I really enjoy. The design process. Um, PR printing is pretty like. Straight forward at this point, it's a lot of troubleshooting at first. Um, but once you get it down, it's really just plug and play. Casting has been a nice, a fun CA I honestly hated casting. when I first started doing it, because it was just

Bill: 45:11

a lot of work to potentially end up with something that doesn't yield, the result you want. And then the intricacies of dissecting it. And that's why I've always avoided doing casting myself. And I have done casting myself. I, I, took, a miniature casting class with a local jeweler here, but I've outsourced ever since it would be nice to, I mean, I do understand the process. I just, I just choose not to do it at this point, but, um, I totally get you there. there. with just being like daunted by that initially, maybe for that reason, I'm unsure. If that was the specific reason you were. But,

emin: 45:46

um, I was experiencing just. At first, I mean, I resonate with casting a lot now. after like, Just sticking to it, to figure out the troubleshooting issues. Um, it's very much aligns with printing in that way, where it's like you go through this process. it creates a result. You analyze the failures of that result and like try new things and try to like hone in. So it's just like a science really of like, What you're doing. And once, you know, like, You know, the parameters of what you're trying to work in. Um, you can almost execute that result flawlessly every time. For me, it's super important to keep continue casting for myself, just in terms of like, Um, it correlates a lot with the design process and like, How am I going to cast this design? Like, can I cast this design, uh, And just like taking time to sprue things in certain ways to achieve a certain result for a certain piece, I think is a. Can be, it can be a very integral part of the craft that like. Otherwise I could be. Just not having that connection to it. I feel I would feel even less like. What I'm making is like of my creation, I guess.

Bill: 47:00

Yeah, Because, yeah, you have those two primary components in which you create right now, the 3d modeling and then the caching. And of course the finishing and things along these lines as well.

emin: 47:10

Yeah. Yeah. It's been a lot of fun making that and just being able to make like large volumes of things, myself has really enjoyable. Um, and just like, It's very energizing working with molten metal, you know? I could be just go down there at like 3:00 AM to pour it and then like wakes me up. Like I just drank coffee or something. It's just like a crazy alchemy. experience.

Bill: 47:34

It's fucking wild. Yeah. Casting is a great opportunity for, um, you know, bringing things into the tangible realm. Like I said, I haven't. Dove too deep into it myself, but it comes into my process. uh, in so many different ways. uh, initially I was just hand fabricating everything, and that was, that was so cool. And I, I've only hand fabricated a couple things this year and it's become less a part of my process. And of course, That was like the first thing I had mastered. was Bringing different metals together, welding them together. Via solder. and Really diving into the intricate. intricacies of that. Just like building things from sheet metal. How do I do that? What does that look like? How do I get the outcome? I want attaching tiny components to large components attaching two large components together. And it's, it's beautiful to watch this process that I continually delve into become unconsciously incompetent, where to where, like, I understand the process so much that it doesn't really require much of my conscious input. Like there's no stress when I'm. Going into sod or something. at this point, which. In terms of like jewelry processes, that's where you could have a fucking catastrophe the most like. You know, if you're hand fabricating, a one of a kind piece, you don't have a mold of that shit. So if you melt it, like it's gone and you've got to start over. So it was cool to like, witness that skill unfold in that way and spend so much time with it. And then over the years, I was like, okay, what's what can wax carving? do for my work because ultimately I'm a sculptor. and That's one of my favorite. Parts of being a jeweler is like creating 3d forms. Miniature 3d forms, wearable, 3d forms. And waxing really, or wax really opened a lot of potential realities for me and streamlined and, um, Essentially allowed me to produce at a more effective rate and do the things I wanted to do in terms of sculpting a little bit easier. Cause you can sculpt. metal just like you could wax, but some things are definitely better oriented for wax in terms of like, You know, not spending fucking forever doing it. Cause there's this just as a point of diminishing return with fabrication in terms of like what you're creating, like the stuff you're making. to fabricate that shit. I mean, that would just be fucking absurd. You. Like who would be willing to like, cause like, one of those pieces could Take like shit. I don't fucking know like how you'd even fabricate those. faces.

emin: 50:04

be carving wax. For 50 plus years before I could like execute upon those designs in a reasonable amount of time. I feel like, you know, it'd be, um, But that's I think like, The significance of tools over all, you know, is like, Improving on. What is possible and also like the amount of time it would take to do something. Is that as much as I'd like to like. Produce things in a way that would be, you know, Uh, Handmade or whatever. I know a like, it's either just not possible for certain things. Um, and then just take more time. And I think at a point in like what age I am and the point I am in this certain career path, I just want to like, be able to do things as efficiently as possible. Um, Yeah,

Bill: 50:54

that makes sense. That's. That's super wise and. You're just doing what's best for you and what you want out of your own life. It's not based off of some other. People's another person's opinion of what they think is best and, and your work's fucking gangsters. So. it's

emin: 51:09

Thank you, man.

Bill: 51:09

you, know, you're doing your thing and you're having fun doing it. And you found a process that works for you and allows you to elaborate and share what you want to share through your artwork. And that's what it's all about. It's like, that's what we're all fucking doing. I mean, it doesn't matter the process you choose to pursue. Like, of course there. There are two different things and they're two different skillsets. Um, you know, whatever you resonate with in terms of processes, I feel that's, that's what you should roll with. And, you know, Jacob does the same thing. He's making a bunch of super bad-ass stuff in. And the 3d modeling world via his computer. And. Um, I don't think personally I'll ever get into that, to that, myself, just because I'm so deep into the hand carving and I've worked with Jacob too. So like I have someone I can collaborate with and and you, of course. as well, That is in that world. And that has dedicated themselves to understanding how those programs work versus. me. Like. How I've developed my vision. and, and, and what I want to share via my art has always been like creating the form in my hands. And, and that's been a cool process and I feel like we work similarly. You know, as you're building your piece, you kind of are making design decisions on the fly. Which is super cool because it's just this journey of discovery and you don't really ever know. What, what it's going to look like in terms of its finished product. Like. I mean, sometimes it's like, I know exactly what it's going to look like. and what's, what's going to come through here, but. That's that's initially what got me the most interested in. This form of art was like, I'm just sitting down with the materials. Maybe I have an idea in mind and I've become more precise and intentional with like my design process and then implementing that into like creating it into a tangible piece. Um, But it's beautiful to watch something just blossom and like, and, and, and come to and not really like, and just kind of let it do its own thing. It's almost like you're just. you're collaborating with the materials in a way. And with the process. and It can be, it's just a beautiful, uh, exciting thing to, to witness it. you know, come to life overall.

emin: 53:17

Yes. I think that's some of like the best moments in like a design state is when you're just like, Hitting points of the design process that are just like in that moment. And you're like, wow, this looks amazing. And like, I just, like, this came out of nowhere almost, you know? it was just like, the idea is fabricate on the spot and like, Yeah, it's just such a fun process to be able to make. Not only 3d art, but 3d art that's made of like, just these incredible materials, you know, that carry so much energy in them and stuff. It's like, wow.

Bill: 53:51

Yeah, I haven't done like too much research into, um, you know, energetic properties of crystals, but you know, everything's alive and and everything has. um, energetic properties and principles to it. So it's cool to even delve into that. And then, yeah, just these materials naturally. Forming in the earth, in these beautiful ways and in colors. And, um, you know, you have the precious metals and, and things along these lines, but yeah, just overall, just what an incredible. Means of creating art really. And it just like the options are endless and it is really, it can be very challenging to, it is really challenging to create a business and to support yourself financially doing it because you do have to create. That trust and, and that brand recognizability, and you have to have a portfolio. you know, I was making pretty dope shit early on, but. I didn't have people. I didn't have the audience and I didn't find my market to really sell to. And for like years, honestly, I undersold. The crap out of things like I would spend like, I sold a piece. I spent like 150 hours fabricating for like two grand. That's fucking insane. That's like slave labor, you know, I made a dope ass piece and I learned a shit ton doing it. Ultimately, I sold myself super short, just cause like I just, I wanted to get more money and make more shit. And I'm sure a lot of people would go through that. And, but, but what's great about that for me was. I, I, there was a point where I consciously chose to just sell my things for less. And then as, and I was able to get more work out there and there was more word of mouth. And that came back to me, tenfold, and I've just been able to continually raise my prices and my rates every single year because of supply and demand and more people wanting my work and. Um, that portfolio expandings and, um, that trust expanding. So that's been a cool process. uh, to be in. And then speaking of trust also, We were talking about the process before. and things kind of just emerging. There is like a huge element. of trust. involved with like it coming to be what you wanted to be. And trusting that, uh, the outcome. We'll uh, be at the level, you want it in the end. Cause you can get lost in like say you're making something like, oh, it looks like shit, you know, in this stage of the process and you can get, feel all weird about it. Like, should I stop? Like, is this even good? You know, things along these lines. that was just another thought that popped into mind while being in the creative process. with jewelry.

emin: 56:30

Thing is very much like that, where you're like working just on this like blob shape. And it's like not until probably 90%. And is it going to like start. Coming to the form by which you want it to. But then at that point, it's just so exciting to see like, like. Wow. I really nailed like the form and silhouette. and this and all the details. And like, it's like, Just incredible feeling to be able to like, Have that. Intuition. Like that hand eye coordination as well. And just. Super fun.

Bill: 57:02

Yeah. And they, once you go through it enough, you realize that. It always turns out dope. Um, may maybe not always. that's binary, but most of the time, um, and then like realizing these, these like protective mechanisms that come in play psychologically where like, and this is why. You get good at what you're doing, because there's parts of your mind that are like hyper analytical of the process and where you're at yet, that can also, uh, be a detriment to like trusting that you're going to get the outcome you want. So it's a very interesting like mind process to be in while you're making something super elaborate and that, you know, can, can span the course of like 40 to a hundred hours, whatever it may be when working on a super complex piece. So it's. Yeah, it's just interesting, like the elaborate seize of the experience of creating in-depth jewelry, art, and really any art in general. I know this is like totally. You know, resonant with Mo. All mediums to a certain degree. Being in that process. and like, like grappling with yourself and learning how to trust yourself and understanding where the mind can be. Getting the way of you, um, being centered through the experience. Yeah. Oh, Yeah. Well, bro. This has been fucking great. Appreciate you being on. I would love for you to share your plugs and anything, anything else you want to share in terms of what you're creating? and projects coming up, things along these lines.

emin: 58:38

Yeah. Um, working on some more pieces for a metamorphose collection. It's like a couple pieces we've collaborated on. Um, I have. nine total idea. uh, pieces planned out for that collection broken down into three phases. that I'll be releasing over probably the next few years. I imagine. Uh, my Instagram's cerebral underscore empire. and, um, Yeah, just having fun. like creating, like. Cool shit, but I want to share with you and the rest of the world, uh,

Bill: 59:11

Oh, yeah.

emin: 59:12

Yeah. It's a pleasure having me on. A lot of fun. Yeah.

Bill: 59:15

We popped as podcast cherry. Yeah. and we're going to go party with friends tonight. So we're going to celebrate our experience here. and Yeah. bro, I appreciate you. I love you.

emin: 59:25

I love you too, brother.

Bill: 59:26

thank you all for joining, you know, where to find me and where to listen to the show. Show. Uh, we'll be back with more smooches PCL.

emin: 59:34

Smooches.

Bill: 59:35

MOOC's.