The William Arthur Show

EP 28: Heartist's Round Table | Raw Life Discussion Between 3 Modern Day Men

• Ryan Witherspoon and Rob Heilgendorf

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The Heartwork brother's~ Ryan Witherspoon, Rob Heilgendorf, and Bill Robertson  have joined forces once again in the beautiful Keweenaw Peninsula for yet another powerful heart flow conversation! We talk about our journey as human beings~ the trials, the tribulations, the ups, the downs~ all with the intention of sharing our direct experience in hopes that others can relate of derive nuggets to apply to their own.

Come join us  for The "HeartWork Men's Immersion" ~ an all inclusive men's health wellness gathering taking place May 31st to June 5th in the Keweenaw Peninsula

The time is now to lean into love and become the heartists of our own lives! To lead and love from the heart frequency is to step into and embody our most empowered, integral, present, authentic and creatively potentiated self. Through the magical synergy of deep brotherhood, ancient techniques/practices, unbound play, immersive self exploration, and connecting to nature we get to step into our power and liberate ourselves to new degrees, create more space and level up in all dimensions of who we are ~ for ourselves, the people we love, and the world!

You life is your HEARTWORK and we are here to support you in becoming the heartist of your dreams. Will you answer the call!?  shoot us an email at slingshotwellness@gmail.com to schedule a call. Thanks!

More information on the event:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CoaRlqjuPnv/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

Plugs:
Slingshot
https://www.instagram.com/slingshot_wellness/

Wild Bill
https://www.instagram.com/itswilliamarthur/

Robster Lobster
https://www.instagram.com/heilgyheilg/

Ryan Witherspoon
https://www.instagram.com/ryan.witherspoon12/



Bill:

Wonderful. This

ryan:

excellent. This is excellent. Um, we made it, we made it here. Rob and I, we had an ordeal this morning, with a popped tire right out the gate.

Bill:

Um,

ryan:

we're back at boho. We're

Bill:

the, how do you pronounce the Peninsula name?

ryan:

Kik Ki.

Bill:

Kik

ryan:

Kiwana Peninsula for a snowboarding trip and a gathering to connect with nature, with ourselves, uh, with flow on the

Bill:

the mountain with some powder, which we will have tomorrow. We were, we were meant to get some riding in today, but, uh, unforeseen circumstances held us back

ryan:

from making that happen. Um,

Bill:

yeah, I'm grateful to be here. We got lobster. Lobster, got flying

ryan:

Ryan

Bill:

and a wild bill in the mix at our Airbnb.

ryan:

Um, yeah,

Bill:

so potting, potting with the boys. Once again,

ryan:

this is

Bill:

our first time being

ryan:

together

Bill:

and podcasting, so that's really cool.

ryan:

Um, it's been

Bill:

a minute

ryan:

I've, I've jumped

Bill:

on a podcast. The last one I did was with you guys, and that

ryan:

was a ton of fun. Let's, let's

Bill:

start with a little check-in.

ryan:

What

Bill:

are the feels, uh,

ryan:

what are the

Bill:

sensations? Where are you at right now, just in general

ryan:

Can keep it brief and kick it off to Rob? Well, I'm excited. Get to

rob:

do what fills my heart

ryan:

with my

rob:

inner child

ryan:

and just go start worrying with my

rob:

best friends.

ryan:

Like, just, uh, every

rob:

time I go, it, I leave feeling full. And,

ryan:

um, like

rob:

there's just more inspiration coming from like, getting out there and being,

ryan:

uh, back into what, uh, drew in

rob:

so much love for me as a child. And I, noticed I stepped

ryan:

away

rob:

from it for so long that now, it's like this last

ryan:

two years of just getting back

rob:

in and getting the flow of it, just reminding myself what it means to be alive by getting out on the mountain.

ryan:

So I'm really

rob:

excited that, that's definitely, I mean, this whole weekend's excitement, that's what it is.

ryan:

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

rob:

That's what

ryan:

It's what, it's for me, that's what's coming through for me. Yes, sir. I feel that especially with the, the inner child snowboarding is, that's what this weekend is about for me, is, is having fun, is tapping into, to just pure play, getting out in the mountain, letting the creative energy flow, seeing the line through the trees and just going for it. And, uh, and yeah, having, having this connection here with you guys and, uh, and I love these kinds of things with where we can come together for an intention to have fun and still like, connect holistically and have this like, you know, depth, like in-depth connection. Whereas like earlier we got here, we started connecting and, and getting deep just in conversation. Then next thing you know, we're all moving, you know, lifting, lifting some kettle bells, having some fun, you know, it's like, yeah, you know, it's this, that's, that's what fitness is all about for me, is like, Always, you know, being mindful of it. And, um, so I, I appreciate that, that aspect of this trip where we can come together and have fun, but still be mindful, eat good food, have, you know, intention and, uh, and yeah, this is, this is our first in-person podcast with the three of us that I'm stoked about that. Yeah. And, uh, yeah, yeah, it was an, it was a, it was a journey for me to get here too, being white out conditions and, um, white knuckling for most, most of the ride. And, uh, yeah, I'm, I'm grateful to be here and excited for some powder tomorrow. Yeah.

Bill:

Yeah.

ryan:

And for me, feeling elated, feeling thrilled, uh, I'm with people. I love doing things. I

Bill:

love, uh, feeling okay in the body.

ryan:

I drank

Bill:

feel free earlier, uh, kava

ryan:

Andra Mixture.

Bill:

and my body isn't necessarily

ryan:

agreeing with it right now. I felt

Bill:

really good at first.

ryan:

And um, you know, with the intention of like opening myself up

Bill:

with

ryan:

KRA and the Kava,

Bill:

uh, I'm sure some people that are listening

ryan:

this are familiar with

Bill:

the, the feel free, uh, I forget exactly the company's name, but that's what the drink's called. Um, there's been an absolute shitload of new developments and evolutions and

ryan:

creative

Bill:

Creative endeavors and shifts in all the different ways personally, professionally, there. We have a huge

ryan:

and exciting collaboration

Bill:

underway with the hard work

ryan:

mine's immersion. So I imagine we will get a little bit into

Bill:

that today and yeah, that's, that's been an

ryan:

journey emotionally and

Bill:

mentally stretching me creatively and

ryan:

um, in

Bill:

all the different ways that, um, I get to bring all these different pieces together that I've developing throughout the years with my study and, uh, personal development and all the different modalities that come with that.

ryan:

Um,

Bill:

diving into the

ryan:

nutrition and the movement and really

Bill:

the self-expression and all the connection that comes with that.

ryan:

So

Bill:

yeah, we first connected in person last year, just around this time at another, uh, spot in the area here to do some snowboarding, Our, my first experience at Mount Bohemia, which was frigging epic. I had no idea what to expect. I did not look into it at all. The culture is incredible around here. And, um, it's, uh, I'm just,

ryan:

I'm.

Bill:

pleasantly surprised by me not having like discovered Mount Bohemia before

ryan:

last

Bill:

year's adventure. And the year feels like it's

ryan:

been like a vast amount

Bill:

time, but also a very short amount of time. There's so much to unpack in terms of the experiences we've had since

ryan:

We got

Bill:

the Aho Ice and Iron men's retreat that we

ryan:

all

Bill:

got to partake in, which was a super powerful experience and a definitely a main reason why we are, you know, one of the main insp, well, a,

ryan:

an

Bill:

inspiration, for the heart work

ryan:

immersion,

Bill:

which we are

ryan:

hosting. Uh

Bill:

May 31st to June 5th,

ryan:

but.

Bill:

um,

ryan:

I don't

Bill:

even know where to take the conversation next.

ryan:

I'm, I'm

Bill:

lagging guys.

ryan:

I'm lagging guys. I'll just say too, like, like you said, like this, this whole year, it feels like it's gone by super fast and it's, for me personally, like there's been so much that's happened and so much growth and stuff and, and right now as we're talking, I'm reflecting on how we did our first podcast together last year. Yeah. And that was my first time being on somebody else's podcast. And right now I'm just feeling into my nervous system of like where I felt on that first podcast and where I'm at now, and like, yeah. Feeling, feeling where my nervous system is at and reflecting on that and.

Bill:

nervousness

ryan:

connection and, uh, yeah. It's, it's very cool just to, to reflect back on a year and have that like timestamp for things, because I think that's such a, like a level of, to be able to see the progress that you made from a specific point is so important for whatever it is, whether it's fitness or, you know, spiritual or mental or school or like you having that specific point to look back on and be like, oh, this is how I felt on that time compared to how I feel now in the same situation. Mm-hmm. But to like see and feel the growth is like, it's is very fascinating for me to like have these, this, this thought process right now and to feel it in my nervous system. Like that's the biggest thing is that I'm, I'm experiencing right now is like how comfortable I feel mm-hmm. compared to, to where I was at last year and, and excited to talk and, and to like be in, in this space, in this container and. Yeah. So it's, it's a, that's a, a powerful reflection to have right now.

Bill:

Yeah. Can you describe more

ryan:

depth that, that evolution of the

Bill:

experience you're having

ryan:

within

Bill:

your nervous system

ryan:

currently doing

Bill:

this with us right now versus what it was showing up in a completely new group of people, which obviously we had connected through the whole health community. Um, and I know we had some conversation about it before us connecting

ryan:

over, you know, the nerves and,

Bill:

um, you know, maybe the overthinking

ryan:

and getting

Bill:

lost in what,

ryan:

you

Bill:

know, manifests in the mind when you throw yourself in a new situation with new people. Uh, building those new connections and getting outta your comfort zone in that way. Can you describe where you were then and where you are now in terms of, uh, just the feeling and,

ryan:

um,

Bill:

yeah, just the, the, the contrast between the two.

ryan:

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Great question cuz like, Last year it was, like you said, we had met through online community and stuff and we had talked and, you know, through Instagram and creating the conversation, you know, having fun. And then, and, but it's always, for me, coming into a new group of, of people is like just very nervous for me. It's like, what expectations, you know, how am I gonna show up? How are they gonna show up? Is it what I thought? Is it, you know, gonna be different? All these, all the things. And, uh, and so like my reflection to like that and the nervousness and stuff and to, and something I, I constantly go through and, um, and it's a, it's a reminder every time that, like when I put myself in those kinds of situations and those re those things that have resistance, like there's resistance there for a reason. And if I continue to move through that, then it's gonna create and cultivate into better experiences and better connections and more fun. Um, and then especially my. Last year, I, I had a, a decent knowledge of the nervous system and breath practices and, and like lifestyle and healthy choices and stuff. And then this year has been just like really embodying them and really like using the practices and, and like I said, seeing that progress, um, and like recognizing the, like what my body is telling me. Like, so f like f from then I was super in my nerves and I knew tools, but I didn't necessarily know how to use them specifically. And in the moment, and like right now, I can feel it in my body where I can, you know, like right before we, those, those little breaths that we did, you know, those little bits of things is like, It's just such a game changer for, for me to, to take the moment to, to breathe and remember that whatever I'm feeling, it's like it's gonna pass and just like move through it, sit with it, and, and, uh, and then also just through all the experiences through the Ice and Iron Men's retreat, and it's like learning that, um, yeah, like it's, it's, there's just so much, uh, benefit in, in taking, taking the present moment. um, and listening to listening to your body and like knowing what your body is telling you and, and feeling comfortable with, with who I am. Like as I'm going through and doing more of this work, I'm like seeing like more confident and comfortability level in just being myself and being present and showing up exactly how and who I am and mm-hmm. and knowing that like, I'm here with guys who are gonna accept me for who I am and, and you know mm-hmm. So it's, it's awesome. And, and to have fun. Yeah. Hell,

Bill:

yeah, brother. I can relate in a lot of ways and yeah, it's sometimes I feel like, I mean, it's interesting, like the personal development, self-growth journey, it's like a spiral. It's a lot, a lot of times you'll feel like you're back where you were at a certain point and there's this kind of contraction and expansion, expansion experience that comes with the whole thing. And, um, just with yeah, I'm feeling, uh, I'm overthinking right now. I'm overthinking a lot. I can Feel my heart rate elevating, which is interesting. It's like, I know I'm safe here and, and I'm good. And it's like, why am I even, why is my nervous system even getting activated? I think it's my egos feeling threatened about like what I'm saying, like, if I'm gonna say it clearly or where I'm gonna go next, I'm really just like residing in the mind right now instead of just like right now, which is what I'm doing is just expressing what I'm experiencing. Um, um, yeah, just going into this podcast I, I like was feeling a lot of resistance. Still am. Um, but yeah, it's cool to just, it's cool to be here with you guys and do my best in terms. of Expressing myself for where I'm at. And um, obviously we have some collaborations in the work and we're here, uh, together for this connective experience to have fun, to explore, to grow, to open up and expand on our, our brotherhood and share the practices. And, uh, that's something I'm super grateful for. But Yeah, shit Ton has changed over the past year since the last boho experience. Um, I know Rob, both Rob and I have been uh, delving into the Slingshot Wellness Workshops and stepping into the role of facilitator and, um, sharing these practices and and these healing arts that we've been exploring and applying to our own lives. And, um, yeah, it's, uh, I'm facing a lot of resistance right now, so I'm, I'm just pass it off to Rob and see if there's any thoughts on your end. My brother um, I'm like just having a hard time thinking clearly at all. Well, I just, I'm,

rob:

I'm getting brought back to how you were saying when you're doing the self-development work, you, you feel this, um, this climb. Like you're, you're getting on top, you're getting on top, you're getting on top. And it's almost like you plateau out and then you al and then you start to feel like you're going back down cuz your old habits are kind of, uh, bringing ourselves back in. Because I look at that as. a, As a test, like a true test of like, what is it? Like, why are you doing the self-development? And those old patterns try to come back in because they want you back and they're gonna, they're gonna try and pull you back in as much as you can. But that self-develop self developmental work is going to test you and see if your discipline is there to stop you from falling back into those old habits that weren't serving you so that you can, you know, rewire, uh, to have those new, um, to have those new habits. And then once you can face that old habit and shell it to the side and replace it with the new one then my, in my idea, like, you've won that, you've won that, you've cut the old one out, you've replaced it with something new. And you know, sometimes that even does look at like, you know, maybe you are doing something self, um, for yourself and it's good, but then a year comes around and you realize you don't want to do that thing anymore. You stack something new in it, cut the other one out, and now you just have another tool in your toolbox. I feel like that that's what was like coming through for me when you were trying to like articulate what, um, what it's like to go through this cycle of actually stepping into, um, new growth and getting rid of the old habits. Mm-hmm. where I've seen, uh, for me, we are discussing it on, uh, the drive up here. Right now for me it's been, um, implementing, going to concerts and social settings, uh, where I am not indulging in any type of substance. Uh, mainly at that point in time was alcohol and seeing that, okay, do I actually have social anxiety or is it, I'm so used to being, um, intoxicated while, um, conversating with people and at concerts that now I'm having to rewire my brain and learn how to act in these new situations. So that's been, you know, something for me to, um, overcome. And, you know, I've only had a couple. Time so far to really step into that and check it out. But like knowing that I can go to a concert that less, you know, you're maybe there, you're there longer than two, three hours. And to, to not be so reliant on, um, a substance to allow me to be able to conversate with other people. That's been a whole journey in itself. Um, just watching the growth through that. And I, you know, I, I put a lot of, uh, that praise onto taking a step into self-development to work and having all these tools, and I know it's possible without it, but, you know, seeing, um, seeing and practicing, uh, these things and having my brothers by my side has been, you know, the biggest help for that because, uh, you could do it alone. But having like you guys by my side and knowing that like, um, if I need help with it, I can always reach out and be, okay, this is what you can do. Or like, you know, maybe sit this one out, think about it, and then go back to the next one. Mm-hmm. That's been like the biggest thing for me. And I like, that's, I mean, that that's been coming up more recently in the past couple months, whereas, um, you know, I was still going to shows and getting like super annihilated even while doing this on film work, which is fine. I mean, it it happens. and I'm not, uh, I don't like dwell on that. It's, it's everything's, everything's a learning experience as long as you, um, allow things to happen for you, and not to you.

Bill:

What was that quote you shared on the way up that was in reference to that sort of experience? I know that's super unspecific. do You know. Oh. Um, so

rob:

you have to live the life you don't want in order for you to know the life you want to live. So in other words, you know, you might be living a, uh, walking down a path, living a life. um, that you think is great and everything you want, but then you realize it becomes destructive and that's not what you want. So then you start stepping into, um, your true purpose, but you would never know you're stepping into your true purpose if you never had that, uh, let's say side quest to, um, uh, to show you where, uh, I guess for, you know, where the light is and where you truly want to be, because how are you ever gonna know that you're stepping into your true purpose if you never like walked down a different path? Mm-hmm. But yeah, that, I mean, when I heard that yesterday, I mean, that was, that that stuck with me super deep because it's like, yeah, like it's, everything is a learning process. Like you don't know until, you know, So like, once you step into, um, one life pattern and then you find out that's not working for you, there's so many other like different tools that you can step into and you wouldn't be able to step into those other tools if you didn't step into. um, that, those other experience. Experiences?

Bill:

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, wow. There's been so many different pivot points in the journey. I just, I like always come back to this point where I was like, damn, like there's this point where, I mean, obviously, um, like exploring my mind with psychedelics and substances, that's still a part of my path. And, um, a modality. I use to understand and love myself to new degrees, but reflecting on like all the unconscious substance use and the lifestyle, I was living at a certain point, living very unconscious and basically just doing everything I could to, um, connect. It was like an attempt at connection using all the molly at the Miramar and getting hammered. and doing cocaine and all these different things. And I just think like, how was it like where, what are some like the main shifts that helped me get outta that? Well, first and foremost, pain is a quickener of consciousness. So there's a lot of suffering that came you know, abusing substances and abusing my body and trashing my body in that way. And so, like I've reached so many different low points. It was like getting super high and just like crashing and just going to the darkest places in my mind, feeling like absolute shit and like completely depending on the substances and the alcohol to connect with others, to lubricate myself enough to feel okay with myself to like express myself. And then like, it's funny cuz I really attribute. um, like the shift of a big part of the shift in my journey and me like consciously and actively cultivating myself was discovering Jill Rogan's podcast and, um, and my like early, yeah, like pain, like the pain that came with the substance use aside cannabis opening my mind to like different routes outside of what the majority was doing and new perspectives, even if I was using it super young and unconsciously. And then discovering the right information at the right time. And then like following what felt right and like what was working for me and what I felt intrigued by. And then just slowly implementing the tools and the practices and then finding community like you guys. Um, it was interesting Rob and I, how like, I don't know, the, I remember what was this like two years ago where like, I was starting to more heavily dive into the coaching and the podcast and the breath work and the yoga and the movement and stuff like that. And there was a point at which, yeah, there was like, you were looking at me, you're like, what is this guy doing? Like what, what's going on? It, it was, uh, cuz it's so different, right? Like, when you see someone doing that and you're not used to seeing someone live like that, it can make you feel uncomfortable. Um, yeah.

rob:

I, I Uncomfortable is the way, is the best word you can describe that. I mean, um, I can tap into what I saw and explain that right now if like, that's, if, you know, if you wanna go down that path

Bill:

real quick, dude. Sure. The journey. Let's, Let's, do it.

rob:

So, I mean, I just remember I was living in, um, my basement apartment and, um, you know, you would still come over, we'd still party and stuff, but then there became a moment where, uh, um, you just weren't coming over as much. Like, I was still going out all the time. And, um, you know, I, I moved up north, um, actually out to like, kind of around this area we're at now. And uh, that whole three months was just a bender but it was so much fun just like living on the lake. And um, you know, and then eventually, um, I went back to school and, uh, that's where I I found my purpose in school in becoming a welder, fabricator. And then from there, like it was still, like, I was still finding myself going out on the weekends and whatnot. And then, uh, I remember specifically I graduated college. I went to, um, a two night run Unre show. And the next week I was sitting there and I'm like, I know I graduated school. I got the job I want. I was like, why do I feel like crap? I was like, what is happening here? Like, why, like, I should be on top of the world right now. Nope. Didn't feel any of that. So then, you know, you had mentioned that you're talking to, uh, you have some coaching calls at Ryan Sprague. So I was like, well, all right, let me let see what this is all about. and I, I, I, I knew that there was a bit of, uh, inner child work that I wanted to do just from, um, my history in high school and the way I acted out. And, um, so I started talking to him about that and that, that launched everything for me. But it was watching you and seeing you be so happy and continuously talking about, um, these new tools that you're finding mainly through Paul Check. That was like, when you first started talking with Paul Check, I was like, he's gone. He lost him. He's he's outta here, he's off the deep end. Like, I don't know. He's going to some like rock

Bill:

stacking, cloud living in alignment with Nature in California.

rob:

Like, what is, what is happening here? um, you know, you, you, you found your purpose through jewelry, but then you found, you found another purpose to step into and that was, um, taken care of your mind and body

Bill:

in a holistic way. And,

rob:

you know, once. Once I lost mine, um, I, I didn't know what I wanted. So, you know, going to a coach was the best thing that I could have done. And I'm glad that I had you as that, that influence and that inspiration to go through because, um, I don't, I, I don't know where I'd be. And like, just going through that has made me want to, um, become a facilitator, which we have started slingshot, which is awesome. It's been great to go through, but then also be like a mindset coach because I saw what the power of how you look at things really changes your direction in life. And that's why I always try to like, tell people like, Hey, like this didn't happen to you. This happened for you. Like, that is one thing that stuck with me since, um, I saw Ryan, and like, he said that to me right away. It was just like a click in the head. Like, oh, okay, like that makes a lot of sense. It gets your perspective. You think negatively negative things are gonna happen. Everything's gonna look negative, you'll be negative. You know, and that's to say like, you can't be realistic. I mean, it's not that you can't be realistic about things, but you know, you. surround yourself by positive people by doing things that are positive for your body and for your mind. Your outcome is more likely gonna be, and I I can say g I can guarantee you it's gonna be positive more than it's gonna be negative. So that was my journey into watching you. And like I said, I thought like, I thought you were gone. I'm like, Nope..I

Bill:

was like, I'm losing my best friend. There is some distance, there is some distance for sure. And I felt like very vulnerable opening up about all the things I was doing. Still do, it still can be uncomfortable, like talking about the shit to family, which I get a lot better at. Cuz I'm like stepping into my power and, and, and recognizing what I'm truly passionate about and recognizing that, um, that's nothing to be ashamed of. That's something to show and show to the world and scream at the mountaintop to everyone too. You know, like, share what you love and if you feel good about something and, and your heart is magnetized towards something, um, that's, that's like the key right there. And one thing that you mentioned was, You came to a point in your journey where you had accomplished these things, which, you know, society and culture's, like, these are the milestones. You know, you graduate college and like you're on the right path, but you didn't feel good and you feel through the body. So you listened to your body and you trusted your body back to trusting your body, what you were talking about at the beginning of the podcast. And um, that's a journey we're all on is like recognizing the sensations in the body and using that as a north star because the body's infinitely intelligent, cuz nature's coursing through us. We are nature and that's like the most solid compass you could ever, you know, guide your life by in my opinion. and um, yeah, I've, I've loved watching our relationship bloom in the different ways and getting to know men like you and, and that's, man. Connecting with men has been a strange journey for me developing relationships with other dudes because I grew up without a father from day one, so I didn't have like the foundational groundwork for what that looks like. I grew up, I mean, I had a brother, but I wouldn't say that we were clo like obviously early, younger days, grade school and stuff, I imagine we were close, but like there's a point where, you know, we, we straight apart and it's like the brother sister rivalry shit, and like, you're just like, nah, like you're lame is shit and all that. Um, so yeah, it's been, uh, there's been so many magical occurrences, uh, over the course of the journey for all of us. And, anything come to mind for you? With all these reflections being shared, do you have similar experiences with friends and family members like. Like, obviously some relationships will fizzle out, and it's like, how do you find your tribe? And that can be really like a tricky process, you know?

ryan:

Mm-hmm. Yeah. One,

Bill:

one question

ryan:

question that came through for me to ask you

rob:

is, you know, I've like what got

ryan:

you into, and

rob:

obviously we met in a, um, whole health community whatnot,

ryan:

but

rob:

like, what got you to tap into

ryan:

like, like yourself mm-hmm. like two either lifting weights and you, you

rob:

run,

ryan:

you

rob:

know, you, um, I remember when you were living in Denver, you post something about a caca ceremony. It's like, what got you to tap into like the

ryan:

more holistic approach to living mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, for me it's one I, I just like to tap. There's so much that came through from, from both of you. Um, and, and like one thing is. The law of like polarity and like the, the idea that you said, it's like you can't know love unless you know pain or, you know, it's like you can't know where you're, where to go in your light if you like, have not moved through your darkness or know what you hate to, to figure out what you wanna do. And it's like, and that's, that's been my journey too, is like going through and figuring out, like having fun and living my life and, and, you know, doing all the things, experimenting and, and exploring and traveling and stuff. And then also feeling super drained and energy and depressed and lack of connection because it's all surface level and it's based off of like substances and it's, it's, you know, it's, it's just not, not true and intimate and vulnerable. And, um, and that's, that's what I'm seeking. That's what I think most people are seeking. Um, for the most part. Um, And, and so that was like a, a big journey for me is like realizing, like, feeling like everything was like a falsehood because like relationships were like, were really, were really beautiful and, and great friendships, but again, not, not to wear like I knew was, was potential. And um, and then for me, I would, I would say my biggest impact was, was my dad was him seeing, seeing his commitment to like living a healthy lifestyle and um, as a young age and his devotion to karate and discipline and, and in those practices and. and like prioritizing health and fitness and then getting away from that through society and through substances. And then, like I said, feeling all that depression and lack of connection and lack of meaning and lack of fulfillment and uh, and then getting caught up in, in the nine to five job and, and feeling like I'm, this is gonna be my life. You know? And then, and then it was, um, you know, like you said, podcasts, podcasts are amazing things because they just open you up and expand you to new ideas and they just con continue down the rabbit hole. And, and that was my, was with Aubrey Marcus's podcast and Joe Rogan show. And it was like that, like the opening of, of him talking about different plant medicines and, and the respect to them and, and recognizing that my experiences with my past mushroom experiences, um, For a long time, I kind of wrote them off as just psychedelic experiences and not like actual, like healing journeys and, and medicine experiences and, and opportunities. And they were just these fun recreational things where in reality it was very like deep opening, hard, expansive work. But I was, again, putting'em off and, and writing'em as, as just an experience and, and something outside of me. And uh, and then coming to reflection on intention and how everything is sacred, especially my body and my mind. It's like, okay. Um, that was like the beginning. It was like, I'm aware of this stuff, but now I don't know how to do it. So it was like two or three years of,

Bill:

of

ryan:

knowing that I'm missing something Jurassic and just huge in my life, knowing that it was fitness, knowing that it was like spiritual devotion and, and then not. knowing how to like fully embody and integrate and pull all these practices and keep learning and then get rid of those patterns, like you said, you know, you have all these bad patterns and trying to replace them with new good habits and new patterns was like a three year process and still process, you know, it's always a process, but it was like three years where it was like, I know I need a change, but nothing was happening and that, um, and then it was up until, it was about two years ago, two and a half years ago, where I finally hired my first lifestyle coach and that was the, the best thing that I've ever done for myself was asking somebody for help and going through a program with another group of, of like-minded people looking to up-level their life and, and develop and, and grow.

Bill:

and

ryan:

and I can't like preach that enough to people. It's like, ask for help. Get, get a coach, a lifestyle coach, a fitness coach, a business coach, like whatever it is, somebody has been in your shoes and they know where to go. And especially as men, it's like you're, you're taught to do it all by yourself. And so that was my, that was my paradigm for so long. And I was so resistant to asking for help. And, and it was really the, the first coach that I hired was like, it was a lot of money for, you know, where I was at. And I was like, damn, this is, this is a, like a big investment right here. And, and that was the, that was the. The paradigm that shifted too was like, okay, I'm not just paying somebody money and not getting anything in return. Like this investment is gonna uplevel me. And for the money that I put in, I gave full effort. And, and now it's like that value came back and, and tenfold and, and it's still growing. And, um, so I think the, the biggest and most impactful part of my journey to where I'm at today is, is learning to ask for help and to learning to like, share where I'm at. And, uh, and it creates the capacity for, for each other to, to share. And even if I'm asking for help, that still opens up a door for my teacher to now be a student because what I'm asking maybe a different perspective of what they're, what they're teaching. And, and that's something that, that I, I contemplate a lot is like the. like a teacher is always a student. So, um, if, if you're being taught, then you get to learn. And when you're teaching, you also get to learn. And uh, and I think that's, that's been the biggest, biggest help and the biggest opening is like one awareness and then two, taking action and, and reaching out for, for help. Like, I can't stress that enough of like, and that's where I find the most resistance is when I have conversations with people. Like, this is, like, the reasons I talk about the things I do is because it's helped me so much and it can feel so weird to talk to family or people who aren't in this kind of journey or, um, or don't see seeing things in the light that I do. And, uh, so it's like I want to help people so much and I want to be of service so deeply and, and like so authentically. and like we were, we were talking like a couple weeks ago. It's, you were, you were in the sacred rage of like, fucking, just, it's right there. The information's there, like it's in front of you. All you need to do is say yes. And that's, that's where I feel a lot of times. It's like, dude, like just take a deep breath in through your nose and out through your nose. That's like, what? That's step one. Breathe, be present. You know? And, and then somebody's like,

Bill:

like

ryan:

breathe in their chest. I'm like, all right, well all right. Start, you know, it's like, it's, it's a challenge for me to, to want to help people so much. And, you know, you can't help people who don't want to be helped or, but you can always be yourself and that and that reflection, you know, and that's what I'm learning too, is like, the more I just be myself and show up in, in the ways that I know are good for me, um, I know that it's inspiring somebody in some light, whether it's right now or, you know, A year from now, and they look back on, it's like, oh, you know, so hell yeah, bro. That's beautiful. And, and to just reflect too, that's a summit to Soul Mountain

Bill:

right there, baby

ryan:

It's, it is the journey. That's what, that's what it looks like, y'all. And, and, um, also what saying Rob is like, one thing I think about is like, it's a constant remembering you remember things and then you forget. Yeah. And you remember again, and then you forget. And it's like you keep coming back, you know, it's a full circle, but the remembering is a little bit easier the next time. You know? Or it's, it's maybe, maybe it's not easier to remember. It's still a resistance of struggle, but in the body, the body can trust. And that's what I feel right now. It's like, I know there's a little bit of resistance just being here, doing a podcast. You know, it's like putting yourself out there conversating and it's like, Okay. But like, it's, it's a little bit easier to remember and trust that my nervous system knows what it's doing. I'm who I am. And, and, and so that's, that's something that I, I always laugh about. It's like, you, you'll remember again. Yeah. And that's the human experience in my opinion. You know,

Bill:

We're so damn scared to be

rob:

ourselves, but it's so easy.

ryan:

Right?

Bill:

we used practice. Yeah,

rob:

it's definitely a practice. And stepping into, I, you talked earlier about first podcast experience and you're like, oh, super nervous. I think about back to the one I did with Bill the first time, the paint teacher. I just remember being like, uh, uh, uh, and just like, really hot dude. That was me at the beginning of this podcast, like really hot the whole time. Just like you've done plenty. Just like staring, just like staring down and out. Like, I mean, even like with the Instagram lives and stuff now, I'm like, yeah, dude. Like I'm just, we're speaking from the, like, from the heart. Like we have stuff coming. The, like the men's immersion has been, in like, an immense of like, uh, growth for me to push into that full, um, that full potential of becoming a, uh, facilitator and coach full-time. And yeah, I might not be fully there yet, but you know, this is showing me like, okay, like this is where my heart is. Like these past, um, like month and a half, two months have really, uh, just shown me like like what is out there for me and what I can step into and like I have billed. and you to thank for that too. Because, you know, if you wouldn't have said yes, if he wouldn't have had the idea, if I wouldn't have said yes, you know, I wouldn't be, you know, walking this. and I, I couldn't imagine doing with like, with anybody else. And you two, cuz especially over the bond we've created in the last, uh, well 24 years with bill, but the last two years with you, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's come together so perfectly and, um, you know, I know I say it a lot, but thank you guys for that, for helping me and showing me, um, that it is possible. Like that's, you know, that's, that's been there and that resonates

Bill:

with me. followed your heart dog. with little pressure, my voice, Yeah, dude, I mean, it's just interesting to reflect people's journeys and, um, how many people choose to stay complacent in their ways cuz of the comfort and then they're, they're calling in the sledgehammer from the universe, you know, the midlife crisis. And like, I've, I've been through experiences like that where I'm like, shit, the shit is not working for me. Like with, um, my journey with jewelry where essentially like, I completely sacrificed everything outside of cultivating my jewelry career so I could be successful in jewelry based on the premise of, uh, becoming worthy and lovable through, you know, acquiring this thing outside of myself. And ultimately I just became super sick. and, uh, I was in a disease state and I was super depressed and anxious, and my relationships weren't thriving. I was like heavily addicted to cannabis and, um, like all I thought I needed to do was become successful in this thing, and it was all built on my insecurities, which I had cultivated through high school. Um, that's a whole nother rabbit hole. Um, but back to just the pain teacher and like recognizing, uh, a change needed to be made and then continuing to follow these, um, these inklings of, of opening and continuing to say yes to specific types of experiences. Like at this point in time in my journey when I was basically falling apart at the seams, uh, building my business and like, it came with a lot of good things. Like I was able to become world class at what I did and I made a lot of progress in jewelry. Um, but yeah, at like the detriment of my own health, which is the only thing that matters. And at, at this point in time where this was happening, um, I was listening to a lot of Paul check, like I was diving deep into Paul's work listening to his podcast a lot. I don't even, I think I discovered Aubrey through Joe Rogan then Paul check through Aubrey and was super fascinating cause he was talking about soil health and like, should I never heard anyone talk about like, the most important thing like the soil, which is a living, you know, a bunch of microorganisms that you know, the earth supports us and, and so on. Like, talk about all these things I I never heard anyone talking about and like how, you know, the soil's being destroyed by the current farming paradigm and and things like this. And, um, at this point in time when I was like really in a dark place with jewelry, not like fully consciously coming to terms with it. But, uh, knowing there, there is like this just like darkness within me. Uh, this opportunity presented itself to go to a PCH workshop. I'm like, that would be a great idea. Like there was like, I could feel it like I was being called towards it from my higher self, would not have described it that way at that time. I just knew I was interested. and I was like, if I make a sale the next couple days, I'm gonna buy a ticket. And It was a$500 workshop, the rock stacking workshop, which we mentioned before, uh, bringing it back to that, and I made a sale, so I was like, I'm sending it. yeah. Um, said yes to that and, and went out to that Paul Czech workshop. Met a bunch of individuals connected with people. I never really could, like, the type of people that show up at, um, Paul Czech workshops It's just like, it's incredible. They're just so open. They're, they're so dynamic. They all have their own unique individual gifts. A lot of people in the wellness space, uh, a lot of people not Paul draws in just. Incredible people. And that's where I met Ryan Sprague. And, um, I forget exactly why I started talking about this in the first place, but basically back to, um, if we're gonna bring it back to anything, it was, uh, trusting my body and like following my intuition and saying yes to things I truly felt fascinated by. And then finding like deep connection through that and finding community and finding tribe and, and through that there's been just a massive amount of like freedom found on the other side in reward. And all these things were also, or specifically the Paw Check workshop and all these other similar scenarios I've said yes to have been very scary for me. Um, okay. Now I kind of remember what I was talking about, like reflecting on like why people stay stagnant in their lifestyles and just kind of like take the past most traveled versus the path less traveled and saying yes to the things us saying yes to. Hosting the Slingshot workshops, us saying yes to hosting the men's immersion, uh, us saying yes to the ice and iron retreat and all these things, which like a lot of times the mind's like, hell no, dog. Like that's scary. Like, you have to meet all these new people and, and things are gonna come up, emotions and feelings through these experiences. And um, yeah, I just feel very grateful. I don't know like what's drawing me forward, like two of these things, but like I feel the momentum and it just, it continue and it's like, it's not that things become less scarier, but my nervous system, it has its capacity, has expand, it continues to expand. My resilience continues to expand and I start to recognize and, and build this connection with my intuition, which is guid me to the place of like ultimate fulfillment and love and connection and all these different things. But there's also that like back and forth, that remembering and forgetting where like I will. retract into myself and and like make a decision that's suboptimal for me. Whether it's consuming substances in a way that doesn't serve me, or um, not saying yes to the thing and just like watching Netflix in my bed, um, you know, all these things, baiting, unconscious, masturbation, um, you know, all the different things that can like, lead us to str and just keep us distracted. Um, but, and yeah, that's just major part of my journey and I just, I really like feel for people that are also like the complacency cycle, which has been like, kind of ingrained and programmed into them via culture and like modern day living because it's so easy to get caught in the trap of like falling asleep and sleepwalking through life and consuming the shitty foods. and especially when you don't have the right people around you and the right information, and even if you do have the right information, if you've been doing like living a specific way for, you know, how many ever years, like, dude, it's just like, there's so much unwinding to do and, and people need guidance right now more than ever. And um, yeah, I like, I'm just very fortunate. I feel we're all very fortunate to be right here, right now having the conversation with the awareness that we have. Like there's something that like came through us and, and like obviously we made choices to cultivate ourselves in this way, but at the same time, I feel like I can't take full credit for where I'm at, for where I'm at for some reason. I don't know if you guys feel the same way About that. Like, it's like some, there's some sort of like divine guiding, uh, force, um, energy, uh, whatever it may be. Um, and

ryan:

Cause, cause and effect, you know, an effect. Every, every cause has an effect. And every effect has a cause. Like, you know, there's never one point that there wasn't an, you know, and yeah. That, you know, every single thing for, for a rock to be in the river. At one time it was a boulder on the mountain, and at one time that Boulder was a part of the cliff, you know, and there was a lightning strike that came and ripped it down, you know, and there was water that came and you wrote it away. And this also goes back to, um, like our mental and our, our experiences, like every single experience that we're having, you know,

Bill:

know,

ryan:

leads us to, like, how we're going to interact with that experience that we're about to have, you know? Yeah. The, the podcast that we recorded about heart work in some way has an experiential impact and how we're coming together and having this, this conver, you know, conversation. You know, so it's like every single thing leads you to, you know, everything happens for you, you know, rather than to you, you know, it's like, so it's, yeah. That, that cause and effect. It's, I got a question for, for both of you guys of leaning on the topic of, um, like listening to your body and listening to your intuition and stuff, and, uh, just like what practices you guys have been utilizing to strengthen that, that inner, inner conversation to like, know what your body is telling you is the right and wrong answer and, you know, mm. And how to listen to your body. Cause I think that's the, that's the hard thing for, for a lot of people and from my own experience is like, what is my body telling me? How do I recognize when my body's sending me a message to like, make a change?

rob:

Mm-hmm.

ryan:

Like

rob:

what, what practices

ryan:

do

rob:

I put in place so that I can be

ryan:

observant? Like when Yeah.

rob:

When, like, when something arises

ryan:

order to listen to

rob:

my body.

ryan:

I

rob:

mean recently it's, but do cold exposure

ryan:

and

rob:

heat exposure the most recently, and that has raised my awareness to like what the body, be the body is capable of doing as being able to put yourself through the cold and, uh, have the res, um, and like move through that resistance of not wanting to get into it, which I mean, maybe only do it three, four times a week and like the heat, same thing, three to four times a week. Um, but just knowing that I can push myself there, I mean, and feeling, in tune with how, how good I feel after doing cold followed by a workout. Uh, generally a strenuous workout and then finishing with the heat and coming out of, coming out of that. Like I always just have this reflection. Like I get outside after being in the gym and doing all three of those things. Everything seems brighter and everything seems lighter. Like it's not as heavy life is a lot easier for me to navigate. So it just having, um, a routine in general that brings you, um, you know, comfort with your mind and for you to feel in your body with, uh, the physical shifts has played the biggest role in me to understand when, um, when I'm in a stressful situation, uh, if I say let's at work or I'm driving, putting myself through, um, intentional stress has allowed me to witness, um, stress that just arises randomly into go, aha, this is happening, uh, in this moment because of this reason. Now, am I going to let this affect me for the rest of the day? That person that, um, is doing, you know, 75 on a highway come riding, riding up on me in the far right lane, am I gonna let that upset me or am I just gonna write that off as, Hey, look, like I, it's just happening this is just something that's happened and, um, it's going to, they're gonna go around me and so is the stress, the stress is gonna go around me, or, um, when something at work doesn't go right, you know, am I gonna let that upset the rest of my day at work? Like if that happens in the first two minutes of being there, or am I just gonna sit there and, um, you know, approach it with, uh, with a clear mind, ready to take on whatever task that brings up. So ultimately what I'm saying is putting yourself under conscious stress will help you recognize, um, recognize stress when it just comes up out of nowhere.

Bill:

uh, ho brother. Hell yeah. Well said. Um, for me, yeah, I would say I'm, I, there's like infinite levels to tuning into the body and intuition and truth and like ultimately nature And God. And Rob made a lot of great points. I feel like it starts with, um, like doing everything you possibly can to optimize, um, the level of receptivity and sensitivity of. your body and, and, um, making sure you check the boxes of Mother Nature's basic principles. So obviously consuming mainly whole foods, sleeping, uh, getting quality rest, sleeping the right amount of time and making sure that's quality. Rest through different lifestyle habits and, um, um, sleep practice. Um, obviously moving and activating the body, getting outside, connecting with nature, um, connecting with other humans. That's, that's huge human connection and how that impacts your ability to understand what your body is communicating with you. All these things like are incredibly integral in that process and. Yeah, I would say I'm a beginner. I feel like I do a lot of things that desensitize myself and I'm working on that like, uh, and, and you know, my relationship with substances and coffee and, you know, hitting the pleasure button and, and pulling those levers too much. Uh, I'm with Rob on the cold exposure and the heat, like, and, and um, really doing everything I can to just feel good in my body. And I think everything flows from there and you're able to recognize and see things with a lot more clarity. So it really just comes back to basics and being consistent with the basics. Cause that's a cumulative effect. And learning how to check in with yourself too, like your body's always communicating with you. Are you choosing to listen? You know, that's, that's really what it comes down to in my opinion. Are you doing the things to where you can actually feel the sensations and actually hear what the body's saying rather feel? Um, so. Yeah. it just, it comes down to consistency with like life-affirming practices that we all know that we should be doing and, and, making sure that we're not, you know, continuously desensitizing ourselves through too much stimulation, too much doing too much, um, you know, the drugs, the substances, all those different things. And those things come into play for actually tuning into your body more as well, depending on what it is. yeah, that's a tricky one. I'm, it's like, it's really challenging cuz there's just like years and years and years of programming ingrained in us through media and, and like basically us going through like formative education has totally put us in the mind versus teaching us how to connect with our bodies and listened to our intuition, which Ha, it's, it's much easier done when you grow up, like off the grid, like, I don't know, referring to tribalistic societies and things like that where they're like, they're grounded on a daily basis. They're sitting around campfires and there isn't this nine to five grind bullshit that totally distracts you from like being one with nature. And, and that's a huge key for like doing everything you can to connect with nature. And, um, I think through that you are able to really tune in, attune to the signals of the body and what the body is saying. Um, and having practices to reflect on what it is saying and, and interpreting it with the mind of course, too. That, that's a tricky one cuz it's like such an individual journey and we can only really share perspectives with each other. and in the end, you really just have to figure it out for yourself and what it means. And I, like I said, I would say I'm definitely a beginner at, you know, doing that and figuring that out. And, um, first and foremost yeah, just the, the baseline practices. What about you?

ryan:

Love it? Um, yeah, both. I love both of those. Like, one you

Bill:

you,

ryan:

like what from, what I took from that is like really like intentionally putting yourself in stress so that you know what your body's gonna feel like when those things arise. Cuz it's like, yeah, when, when shit hits the fan, sh you're like, what the fuck do I do? But if you're intentional about it, then you know how to react to it and, and, and then you can listen to your body. Um, and for me, the,

rob:

it the, uh, reactor respond

ryan:

mm-hmm.

Bill:

Um,

ryan:

for me, my, my biggest thing right now is.

Bill:

Is

ryan:

Is like consciously creating a dialogue in my head and like recognizing, like actually having the conversation and, and writing out questions of like, or like speaking to myself sometimes, sometimes just in my head or sometimes out loud of like

Bill:

like

ryan:

asking myself, what am I feeling? What, you know, like, what is this? What am I, am I, you know, is this an emotion or is this a feeling? Um, cause for me, from like, what I've learned is like really being able to differentiate the two between an emotion and a feeling is like super important to like, guiding you into what, what to do next. Is it, is it something that like, isn't an emotion, that's something that's just arising from a, a specific experience that's going to go away, you know? Or is it like, if that, if that car is about to, you know, coming up on you, tailgating you and stuff, is it like, all right, as soon as that car does pass you by, Is that emotion gonna go away and you're gonna go about your day. That's, that's, to me, that's an emotion. That's something that's just gonna arise and, and pass. And then when it's, when it's the feeling is when it's like, okay, did this last more than five minutes, that car is long gone. That, that's a feeling that's attached to a different like memory or a different experience, you know? And it's like, all right, that car didn't trigger me, that it was just on my ass. It triggered me about that one time that the car rear-ended me because he was on my ass, you know? And I hit to hit the brakes real fast, you know, or something. So it's like emotion, like asking myself, learning to take the moment and to take the breath and that, that split second and be like, what am I feeling? Or what am I thinking? Is this really, is this really happening right now? Is what I'm thinking really happening? And, uh, and yeah. And then, and then really just trying to.

Bill:

try and

ryan:

practice the mentality that like I'm a spiritual being, having a human experience and like remembering, you know, like that, that what I'm experiencing is, is very minuscule to like the grand scheme of things. You know, when, when you look at it as, as your spirit and as your soul and like remembering it's like, okay, what, what is my body feeling and what, what is my soul feeling? But yeah, having, having like a specific conversation with myself been something I'm finding, finding, um, myself to do, which is, it's really interesting because it's just, you just can keep, keep going, keep leading in new questions and, and new discovery and new remembrance, um mm-hmm. and, and understanding, understanding my body. So that's been really interesting thing to do.

Bill:

Yeah, awareness is incredibly powerful. We gotta sh keep sharpening that. for sure. Um, good stuff. Tuning into the intuition and emotion. Energy in motion. When

rob:

I think too, it's important to say like we, we've all got clearly our own experience. You know, you have a mental talk, you have with yourself, feeling out the feelings and emotions. I gravitate towards putting myself under, um, conscious stress in order for me to feel stress and anxiety when it arises in order for me to show up with it in the correct way. And then, um, you know, for, for you, bill, you agreed with the heat and the cold, um, having that play in affecting with you. But I think what's most important and like you're, um, how you touched on, uh, sleeping right and eating right. Like if you're gonna start anywhere, start getting seven, eight hours of sleep. Um, don't eat two hours before you go to bed and make sure you're eating the correct foods, whole foods, no processed foods, and just feel that shift because first of all, like take care of your temple.,,and I've, I've seen a lot of talk on like the internet and stuff about like where like, um, where do I start with everything? And it's like, we're we just named off a bunch of stuff that you could do? And for somebody, um, who hasn't done any of that and they think that they need to do every single one of those things, like, yeah, we all might do that now, but we didn't start off with that. I started off with lifting weights. like That's where I started off. So I think it's most importantly, get back to the basics. Like you were saying, bill, to get the food, the proper sleep seal, you feel there. And then, you know, those are two very great things you have in your toolbox. now add something else in, add that on top. And then as you do that, it just becomes, it just becomes a way of living. It's not a task that you have to do every day. It's, it's what you look forward to doing. You know, it's what fills your cup to do these extra things. Um, so that's, that's like, that's what keeps coming through to me, like when hearing all these shares and everything. And when I see people talk about, like, I don't know where to start, how do I do this? Where do I go from it? It's like, don't worry, there's a bunch of stuff you can do, but just, you know, choose, choose two things to get into that routine. And once you figure that out, that becomes, you know, your way of life. And then you can start adding other things in. And if you really like that in a way that makes you feel, that also becomes the way of your life. And then from there, you're just stacking and stacking and stacking and next

Bill:

thing you know, you're flying Super san three. Yeah. You're going super san three. You're Flying high. You're flying high. Yeah. Hell Yeah. It's very simple. Rob said it best with, um, fundamentals for like, tuning into and, and cultivating your highest potential, actualizing yourself to the highest degree. It's, um, it's the nuts and bolts that's gonna like, move the needle the most. That's like where my heightened awareness began too, was like, I mean, obviously the information and then just implementing the different, um, lifestyle variables to continually like, open me up and, and like, it it's just as simple as this. When you feel good, good things happen. You know, it's, and there's things we have to do being organisms that have evolved in a specific way over the course of millennia to feel good and. It's funny, like eating well wasn't an issue, um, as we were more primitive beings. Like this is a problem of modern day society. Um, yeah, it's, uh, it's, it's, it's in our hands. With that being said it's easier said than done. Um, there's lots of things that can get in the way of, you know, that opening process and learning how to, like attune to higher frequencies. Um, yeah, I, I like what Rob said, just, uh, tuning, tuning the body up, you know, putting good fuel in it. You wouldn't, you wouldn't pour bullshit into your, you know, nice car and totally screw it up. So same, you wanna put sugar in your gas tank with you. Same thing dog, same thing. We like sweet treats. We like sweet treats, but Yeah. But you put sugar in intentionally. Enjoy it. You put sugar

rob:

in your gas tank, uh, you're gonna have an expensive trip to the mechanic.

Bill:

Yeah. right? Um, the

rob:

mechanic. uh, in this situation is gonna be the doctor. Like, uh, My other favorite quote is, pay the farmer now, or pay the doctor later.

Bill:

Yep. The doctor

rob:

is gonna be more expensive.

Bill:

Yeah. Some people unfortunately need that. Uh, that body slam, that body slam experience.

rob:

I needed it. I mean, I wasn't super like, you know, wasn't super bad where I needed surgery or anything, but it was enough to, yeah. Going into the emergency room and going out of it was enough for me to be like, all right, make a change, man. like that was, that right there was listening to your body like that the pain was just,

ryan:

that was avoiding the whispers and listening to the screens.

rob:

Yes, exactly. Little exactly Feathered

Bill:

best way to put it. Yep. That's cool. And then that, that's just a practice. It's really all a practice. um, Like I never have had any major health crises in my life. To an extent. Yeah. Not to where I'm in a hospital, like drug-induced psychosis from parting way too hard for like hours on end, combining substances and just hitting the gas pedal way too hard using unconsciously and just like chasing a high essentially. And then like, yeah, just the major lows out experience from my festival experiences coming back where I was like, who, the bounce back was not fun. It wa it wasn't worth it. And then I just, I had to go continue to go through that until it was like, all right, enough's enough and yeah, now it's like, I don't go there ever. I, I, yeah, it's not a variable and my life cuz the integration and the recognition. Finally, I listened. Finally I listened to my body. Finally, I listened to the signs and I took action. And I feel we could go into, one more fun little side quest here before we close it out. And we can talk about also the men's immersion and what we're doing with that a little bit. Just details, put it on people's radar. Um, I think integration would be fun to reflect on right now and what's been valuable for us as individuals and what's been effective in terms of doing that. Whatever comes to mind with that. And then I, I also believe it would be cool to share something we are struggling to integrate and something a, a wall we keep bumping up against so we can relate with the listeners here because. It's interesting what the ego and the mind does when you listen to podcasts about people. And it's like sometimes you feel alienated cuz you're like, oh, like these people have it. So together not the case really. Like, we're human beings, like of course we do our best and um, you know, we're like intentionally crafting and shaping ourselves and, and, moving forward. But the journey is never short of ups and downs and the resistance and the challenges and the old cycles creeping their way back in. So if one of you guys wanna take the stage here and kick it off, or we can, we can take a pause too. Just let that, let that sit and um, see what comes up. And integration, implementation, um, you know, the methods, the strategies, what's worked, what's, yeah, I'll just leave it at that. I don't want to over vocalize here. I do that sometimes.

ryan:

Yeah. Um, I'll, I'll start with a, a challenge. There's, there's two challenges that, that come are coming through right now that I've,

Bill:

challenges.

ryan:

one is, I guess they're, they're both tied together. Um, but, uh, just, just body image and, and, uh, and like food, like nutrition is, is always something that.

Bill:

and

ryan:

that I've struggled with, like my whole life, like eating. I've always like, had good meals and healthy food and stuff, and I've always allowed myself to really slip down and like go, go into like

Bill:

into

ryan:

bad, you know, binges on food when it's, when it's bad, it, it goes bad and stuff. And when it's good, it's good. And then I hit that wall and it's like, boom. You know? Um, so it's, it's cycles and they get, they've, I've noticed that they've, you know, and when I fall down, I'm e I'm quicker to get back on the horse and, you know, so it's like that, that integration proc, you know, is, is what's been a, a good awareness to see is that like, I'm quicker to get back on the horse. So that's, that's a ni that that taps into the integration. It's like, that's really what I'm working on integrating. It's like you're always gonna fall off, like you're always gonna get knocked down. You get knocked down seven times, you stand up eight. Like, you just keep going and, and as you practice and, and integrate that, then, um, then those struggles, you know, can, can keep moving forward and you keep making progress and stuff. So I guess that's, that's kind of taps both as, as integrating that, that method of, you know, Stand back up, keep going. And that's what last year was. And this, and you know, is for me is like, just keep fucking going. Like, you know, go that extra mile, just like take one more step, whatever I can do, like keep going and, uh, and then yeah, like really, really with the food. And when I, I tie in and I reflect my, my food habits to my body. So when I notice that I'm eating poorly, or if I skipped meals or if I had a meal that I knew wasn't the best option for me at a specific time, and I'm starting to realize that. It's not that my body changes, but it's my perception of my body. I can be going to the gym and doing the same workouts, training for my races and like doing these things. And when I reflect on the foods that I put in my body in the past three days, my mind starts to to twist and turn in my perception of how I see myself. So like, struggling with, with remembering that like, and I have like a sticky note like on my mirror in my bathroom for, for every morning when I see it. And it's just like, like I love my body exactly the way I am, you know, like wherever I'm at. And remembering that like that's the baseline is like loving myself. And, but I, I, I see the pattern of, of food and nutrition and then how directly, and, and it's interesting because, you know, food has, you know, the, the. Brain connection is like, I'm just reflecting on this now, of like what foods I'm putting in my body are really triggering specific, you know, physiological things in my brain to like, you know, that are tied with shame and guilt and, you know, all this stuff. So it's like, it's an interesting thing to tie together of like my perception to my body and thinking about, you know, the foods that I'm putting into it and that shame I have around that. Um, and, and yeah, so it's, it's, it's like you said, you know, we're, we're, you know, I think the, the best part about self-development is like radical responsibility and owning like your life and where you're at and, and recognizing like it's, it's, you know, it's that un alone. It's that, that wandering path that that one day will, will get you to enlightenment, but it's, it's gonna keep meandering and, um, and just going in and out and, uh,

Bill:

and, um,

ryan:

and yeah. So it's, yeah. Struggling. Struggling is, is, uh, is growth. Yeah. You know, it's fun, right? Yeah.

Bill:

It's

ryan:

adventure. It's fun.

Bill:

I love it. I love the suck.

rob:

We are all exploring the

Bill:

suck. Yeah. It's great. On the other side, suffering is grace. That's what Rambos would say. yeah, yeah. Aggressive. That's what he did say, rather. Yep. Yep. Hell yeah. Roberta.

rob:

Things I'm struggling with, uh, would say right now my biggest thing is I, I guess confidence, Not nu not. really confidence. Am I worthy enough? Like am I, am I good enough to be helping other people? Like, you know, am I really like this person? Like cuz Because I don't feel like it. Cuz like when we do slingshot, but we talked about this like, you know, like you see a coach, you go to a yo like yoga teaches, you automatically put these people on like a pedestal you feel this way about them. And you know, I started self-reflecting on, you know, like, do the people that come to, um, these containers. So like if, and if anyone, you know, for the people that come to the heart work, uh, men's immersion, is that like, um, you know, are people looking at me in the same way? And it's like, I really don't want that. Like I want them to look at me like I'm your buddy. How we're friends, how we're friends. Like how I'm friends with any of my friends. like. I want it to be that way because it's like, no, like I'm just speaking from experience and from the heart. That's what it always is. And to me, it feel like I don't feel like I have enough experience to be speaking from it. So I kind of always put myself, um, I put myself to the side to think that I'm not worthy, uh, to, to be teaching others how to live a certain way. But, um, on the other side of that, like I am only talking from experience. I'm not telling or saying go do these things, um, that I haven't done. And, um, saying that they have helped me and they have quote unquote enlightened me, I guess take whatever you want, like to what that word means. But, um, on top of that, like with the other worthiness too, is. um, Of love from a romantical relationship Like as soon as you brought up. Um, what, what is it that you're dealing with? Like that is still something that like I've been toying with, uh, for a while now is like, you know, like what, like what is it that I want in one and then two, like I don't, like, I feel like I'm not worthy of it, but I know I am because I'm living in my path. I'm living in my truth. And that's just something I have to remind myself and that's why I do, um, maybe if you wanna talk about integration, um, and reflection is I have a whiteboard in my room and it has affirmations on it. And one of them is, I am worthy of love. I'm connected with myself, I'm creating balance in me. And all of these things are important to, to remember because it lets you know that you are on the right path. You are on the right journey. And, um, I think also a good. good way to integrate things is to question everything that you have done. But question that, like as in, you know, by doing this practice, what has that, um, done for me? And what, like, how, like how has that made me grow? Um, journaling is a great practice for that. I personally don't journal. I couldn't tell you last time I journaled It's a practice that I always tell myself I want to do, but I never do it. Uh, just cuz uh, I always tell myself I don't know what to journal about, but there's plenty to journal about. Um, I think that that's, that's a big part of integration is, um, looking back on how far you've come, Uh, my favorite thing that we did at the, the men's retreat in July was the 10 year, um, rewind. Rewind, you know, where were you 10 years ago that led you up to this, day at this time? Like, I think that. was one of the most impactful things for me because, you know, when I was 18, what I was doing then was a lot different than what I was doing, than what I'm doing today. And even, like, I, I told somebody the other day, I don't even like looking at pictures of myself from 2019, 2020 and up. Like, let's go, let's go. I wanna see that Rob. I like that Rob. But it's important to have those reflections. So on the integration part of, uh, part of it, I would say look back at how far you have come. And what you have, um, what, what you've accomplished. And even if it only is in a couple of years, maybe it's a couple months, maybe in the last week, just look at what you've accomplished and, uh, once you start to realize that you are, um, walking tall and getting on top of what you're doing, it's okay to have setbacks. We'll have setbacks and that happens. Uh, but the reflection of, of your journey is, is always a really great, um, practice to have. in, um, knowing how far you've come and to integrate everything. So that's, that's what I have to say for it. Um, yeah, brother. Yeah,

Bill:

that's, yeah. That's it for me. Beautiful. Nice. Nice. Hell yeah. Take us home bill. All right. Yeah. I'm, uh, same boat. I resonate the, uh, like the fundamental self worthiness and, and self-love and self-acceptance. It's a very challenging thing to fully integrate that inherent self worthiness. It's, there's like a constant back and forth and it's, and the mind will want to tell you something else, previous experiences and emotions will arise surrounding that. And, um, and through that, with that being like a fundamental core wound for me, a lot of self sabotage comes into play. Um, and it's like a very interesting unconscious, like deep psychological process that I don't fully understand where, um, I feel that like I'm resorting to substances. Because like they just feel good. But I think on an unconscious level, my nervous system is just used to feeling lower and, and, and wants to feel in a lower frequency because um, that's what it's used to. So I think there's a part of me that feels drawn towards like self sabotage, whether it. like over consuming food, which I don't do a ton more anymore. I can relate to that. Like binge eating, which I struggled with a lot last year. That was like, that was an interesting experience. Um, food's just so good. Um, and

ryan:

dopamine so good.

Bill:

dopamine. so good. Yeah, it's like, this is something I'm like actively like working to understand, cuz I keep bumping up into these things. where like, I'll fall back into these old patterns And cycles And I, I feel like really, I don't, like, I don't allow myself to shame myself, but there's an underlying sense of shame that comes with it cuz it's like, damn, like I'm back here again. Like, you've been going through this for years and years, but you know, there's, there's, there's been many steps forward with all of it. And, um, yeah, I feel like it's all rooted in like a lack of worthiness and because what I trained myself to believe was that I could only achieve worthiness and, and love through external, uh, variables. things I did, things I, the way I looked, um, being good at a particular thing, whatever it may be. And that was something that became deeply ingrained in me in middle school and high school. So. I feel like that's a lot that a lot of people experience that, that, that, like, am I good enough? And it's, it's always yes, it's just the, like that puzzle's, it's different for all of us and the reason we experience is a bit different for all of us. Um, so that's something I also experience and um, it manifests in all sorts of different behavior and um, yeah, it's a work in progress. I love like taking steps forward. I love putting myself around people that always see me in my best and always support me and see me in my highest. That's super powerful for the integration of that. Um, integration wise. Consistency. Consistency With everything, with, you know, catching yourself in the poor self-talk when you are beating yourself up and, and over time it becomes a lot more nuanced. um, there's There's a point where, um, you just recognize I dunno, It's interesting like the, the, beginning of like analyzing the self-talk journey. It is like so direct and so like, I don't even know what word I'm looking for, but I'll just, I'm losing steam here, coming towards the end of the night. I'll, I'll just say consistency has been huge for me for integrating, uh, my fundamental understanding of and feeling of my worthiness and surrounding myself with the right people, um, reflecting and always granting myself grace, not allowing myself to go down the shame spiral, which happens, but it's like very easy to recognize and catch at this point. Um, just maintaining the path, maintaining the path. And yeah, I'll leave it at that since I'm like my brain's frying out right now. Yep. Um, cool. Well, Jens, boom. Nice work. That was a lot of fun. Went Deep. Uh, thank you guys. Everyone who tuned in. I didn't even do an intro. Um, unnecessary. So, one more thing we would like to discuss and bring to light. As we've brought a lot of things to light today about our experience and, and the trials and tribulations of what it means to be human, what's, what's most personal is most universal. and it's just very beautiful to like open up about the human experience and look at it through a lens of curiosity and not judgment. And, And, that's another thing I forgot to mention about integration was letting go of the self-judgment and just being curious about your experience. Um, cuz it's all just phenomena that we are perceiving and all just things that, an accumulation of ideas and concepts in our minds. And, um, so I'm losing it again, I'm losing my train of thought. Someone helped me here.

ryan:

This, uh, this journey, um, into the, the men's immersion is, is what you wanted to do.

Bill:

The journey into the men's. immersion. This is exactly what the men's immersion and men's work is all about. It's like Rob said on our first podcast, it's, uh, taking, uh, the pile of shit you have, putting it on the table and then polishing it into a diamond solely by. Just showing it, br sh shedding light on it because it's beautiful as it is, and it's there to teach us and there to show us more love and more self-acceptance as long as we're willing to open up to it and integrate it. So just a few details about the men's immersion, which is a five day all-inclusive wellness gathering for men's, specifically that we're hosting in the upper peninsula, right on Lake Superior. Literally the properties right on Lake Superior Sauna. Food provided, uh, mindset and movement, workshops, meditation, connection, brotherhood, synergizing, all these things so that we can further step into our potential, our creativity, our freedom, our love, our expression, all different things so we can like just frigging fully send life and and continue to expand our capacity to do so. Uh, this is going down. Um, May 31st to June 5th, and I'll open up the floor if there's anything you guys want to share about it. That was just a basic little rundown of what it is. We have more information on our social media pages and we'll continue to post about it. And if there is curiosity, we would love to have, a conversation with you to connect whether you are become a part of the men's immersion or not. Uh, we would just love to connect and I'll let you guys express anything you wanna express and then we can finish the journey. Is the goal Nice?

ryan:

Yeah, the, uh, the hard work men's immersion, it's, um, one of the, one of the things I'm looking forward to most about it is, uh, is like the, the raw and authentic potential that is possible from, um, from intention and especially when men come together with intention. Like, fuck, that's, that's, that's some good clean fu That's some good clean fun right there,

Bill:

there. Yeah. Straight

ryan:

up.

Bill:

Straight up. That's the

ryan:

the prescription you need Yeah. Um, and yeah, and, and if anybody listening to this, you know, if there's, there's one thing that, you know, you resonated with in this podcast or you know, or anything that we said or shared about or anything, um, then I can, I can, I guarantee that, you know, opening up the conversation to join the men's immersion will, will definitely be in your favor. Um,

Bill:

the conference? Yeah, We just scratched the surface. um, in terms of. what it is like that this energy that the men's immersion, uh, has to offer and these types of events have to offer human beings. And, and we love humans and we love human connection. And, um, we're here to and to be supported and to be heard and to be seen and, and to be on the journey together cuz we need each other. And, and that's, that's why we're bringing the dudes together for an epic experience of growth, love, transformation, connection, uh, connection in all ways. So yeah, A ho, a ho.

ryan:

I hope Oh,

Bill:

oh.