Ep 111| Featuring: Avgi Saketopoulou and Ann Pellegrini

*Host's note : If you'd prefer to watch this interview, check out the YouTube video.

This episode features our guests, Ann Pellegrini and Avgi Saketopoulou, both psychoanalysts in private practice in NYC and both professor/faculty at NYU, as we discuss their theory of gender formation in their bold new co-authored book, "Gender Without Identity".   

TOPICS COVERED:
- Avgi's and Ann's stories of how they have landed here together via their passions and purposeful journeys
- The ethical questions they faced, in the classroom and in clinical practice
- How to talk about trauma and gender/sexuality identity without being transphobic
- The counterintuitive ways of thinking around these topics, and how to still protect queer & trans
- The role trauma plays in developing gender identity and sexuality
-  Their theory: gender can be complex and is acquired by everyone (cis or not) rather than gender being innate
- What factors play a role in acquiring gender identity and sexuality
- The controversy of this discussion and their book
- Not invalidating how LGBTQIA people feel about themselves
- The more people come out, the more people are coming out
- As trauma heals, what happens to the sexuality and gender identity?
- Shifting in gender is ongoing - transitioning and re-transitioning
- What to do WITH your trauma instead of ABOUT your trauma
- How can society have these complex conversations without weaponizing against LGBTQIA
- Self-inquiry

GUESTS RESOURCE RECOMMENDATIONS:
1. Detransition Baby (Torrey Peters)
2. Transgender Studies Reader (Susan Stryker & Stephen Whittle)
3. Cistem Failure (Marquis Bey)
4. Stone Butch Blues (Leslie Feinberg)
5. Histories of the Transgender Child (Jules Gill-Peterson)

FOR MORE INFO ABOUT OUR GUESTS:
1. Avgi on IG
2. Avgi website
3. Ann on IG
4. Their book,