#036 - Like so many veterinary professionals, Dr Andrea Harvey knew she wanted to be a veterinarian from a young age. What is perhaps more unique, is how her "why" has been unwavering since she nursed her pony back from a near-catastrophic injury; and it is this strong sense of purpose that has given her the courage to embrace a number of different opportunities.
Andrea has had quite the diverse career, and over the past 20 years has had a number of impressive achievements and made some significant contributions to our profession, predominantly in the field of feline medicine and animal welfare science. There is no question that her openness to new experiences, willingness to step outside of her comfort zone, and an admirable work ethic are traits that have contributed to her success.
During the episode, Andrea reminds us of the importance of surrounding ourselves with the right people, who will encourage and support us in fulfilling our potential. She also shares her wisdom on finding veterinary happiness through making aligned decisions, remaining open to opportunities, and giving back to the profession. Andrea's commitment to helping others reach their goals is evident as she recounts her own experiences with mentorship, and the joy she finds in supporting the next generation of veterinarians. If you are needing some encouragement to say "yes" to an opportunity that is front of you right now, this episode is for you!
Get in touch with us on Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook and visit our website - platinumcpd.com
#036 - Like so many veterinary professionals, Dr Andrea Harvey knew she wanted to be a veterinarian from a young age. What is perhaps more unique, is how her "why" has been unwavering since she nursed her pony back from a near-catastrophic injury; and it is this strong sense of purpose that has given her the courage to embrace a number of different opportunities.
Andrea has had quite the diverse career, and over the past 20 years has had a number of impressive achievements and made some significant contributions to our profession, predominantly in the field of feline medicine and animal welfare science. There is no question that her openness to new experiences, willingness to step outside of her comfort zone, and an admirable work ethic are traits that have contributed to her success.
During the episode, Andrea reminds us of the importance of surrounding ourselves with the right people, who will encourage and support us in fulfilling our potential. She also shares her wisdom on finding veterinary happiness through making aligned decisions, remaining open to opportunities, and giving back to the profession. Andrea's commitment to helping others reach their goals is evident as she recounts her own experiences with mentorship, and the joy she finds in supporting the next generation of veterinarians. If you are needing some encouragement to say "yes" to an opportunity that is front of you right now, this episode is for you!
Get in touch with us on Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook and visit our website - platinumcpd.com
Platinum CPD and the PositiVETy podcast acknowledges the traditional owners of the land where we work, live and record, the Noongar people of the Wadjuk region; and pay our respects to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander People and Elders, past and present.
Andrea Harvey:You know, resilience is definitely a really important trait for vets, but it's something that develops, and it develops through nurturing and supporting people. I would consider myself to be very resilient now, but that doesn't happen overnight. That's because I've been fortunate in being nurtured and supported throughout my career.
Emma McConnell:Welcome to The PositiVETy Podcast. I'm your host, Emma McConnell: equine vet company director, wife, mum to Daisy, chihuahua enthusiast and lover of Miniature Ponies. We are on a mission to bring happiness back into veterinary medicine by shining the brightest of spotlights on all the positive aspects of the veterinary industry. Through the sharing of stories, we will showcase the magic and joy that comes with being a veterinary professional, encouraging you to remain motivated about this special vocation and helping you become as mentally wealthy as possible, both at work and in life. Every one of us has a unique story that is worth sharing, and this is the perfect platform to share the extraordinary tales of our colleagues and community. So settle in and rediscover the joy of veterinary medicine, and get ready to feel inspired and energised about your chosen career. This is The PositiVETy Podcast. Hello and welcome back to the podcast. I have been very much looking forward to chatting with today's guest, because they have truly had a fascinating journey so far that really highlights just how incredible our veterinary profession is.
Emma McConnell:Dr Andrea Harvey is a longtime friend of Platinum CPD and has made a significant contribution to veterinary medicine over the past 20 years. From her origin story, it is pretty clear that Andrea has always been very driven. However, it has also been her openness to saying yes to new opportunities and her willingness to step outside of her comfort zone that has really contributed to her career success. Despite all of her achievements, andrea remains incredibly humble and committed not only to her own ongoing professional development, but to the betterment of our profession. If you are in need of a little bit of encouragement to be brave, or perhaps to say yes to an opportunity that's currently in front of you, then this episode is for you. So, without further ado, it is my absolute pleasure to introduce you to the feline, fabulous Dr Andrea Harvey. Hello, andrea, and welcome to the Positivity podcast. I feel like this chat has been a little bit of time in the works and I'm just so thrilled that we do finally have you on the podcast. I'm so looking forward to our conversation.
Andrea Harvey:Oh yeah, my thanks for inviting me. I'm excited to talk to you.
Emma McConnell:Oh, that's so wonderful. I know that you've had a really amazing career, and actually one that's ultimately been quite diversified, and I really can't wait for you to share your story. But I was just wondering, just to get us started, do you want to just give us a little bit of background, sort of as to how you came to be a vet in the first place and what your journey in veterinary medicine has looked like?
Andrea Harvey:Yeah, sure, it is quite a long one, so I'll try to keep it short and not bore people too much. I guess, like many of us, i had a love of all animals from a young age and had aspirations of being a vet from a young age. But what really solidified that for me was actually horses. So I was really into horses as a young girl and when I was 14, i was really desperate to have my own pony and my parents couldn't really afford to buy me one. I used to work at a riding school and work for rides type thing. So I was doing lots with horses already but really wanted my own pony. Eventually my parents said well, when you earn enough money to keep a pony, that's when we'll buy you one, obviously not thinking that a 14 year old was going to earn enough money to keep a pony. So off, i went and got a job at a fish and chip shop when I was 14 and then presented my parents with the money to pay to keep a pony. They kind of had to buy one then. I love that. So I was working hard to evenings, after school and weekends to pay for my pony.
Andrea Harvey:And then she had a tragic accident one day where she put her foot through some glass and severed the tendons sheet of a digital flexor tendon on a hind leg And it was really to go whether she was going to make it.
Andrea Harvey:It got infected, like the vet was having to come out every day for a long period of time And during that time I was just really committed to nursing her back to health and I used to sleep in her stable next to her And, yeah, really put a lot of effort into her care And it was that, you know, there was that long period. I mean it seemed to I was so young it seemed to go on forever. The period of time she was sick. I don't know how long it actually was, but anyway, one night, while I was sleeping in the stable with her, she really turned the corner And she went on to make a really great recovery And it was that feeling Well, you'll know the feeling, every vet knows that feeling But it was that feeling of her getting better and me realizing the part that I played in making the difference between her life and death. And that was the moment I was like, yep, i'm definitely going to be a vet, this is what I want to do.
Emma McConnell:That is an incredible story.
Andrea Harvey:Yeah, i guess everybody has a, has a kind of you know some kind of story like that as the moment that they decided. And so, yeah, i guess, from that point onwards I just worked really hard to make sure that I would get the grades but also get the work experience. You know, i worked at lots of local farms and as well as the stables and I was fortunate enough to get into Bristol vet school And throughout vet school I guess. So I always really wanted to be an equine vet, i guess, or or mix. I wanted to be a mixed practice vet. Probably. I was of the James Harriet time as well. That was a big inspiration for me. So I kind of wanted to be a James Harriet vets. I still do, i suppose. I love it And yeah, and then I guess, as I progressed into the later years of vet school, sort of fourth and fifth year I became really interested in internal medicine.
Andrea Harvey:And it feels terrible saying this to an equine internal medicine specialist, because at that time to me equine internal medicine didn't seem that exciting, whereas small animal medicine seemed really interesting and exciting. And I guess we had a lot of in at Bristol, we particularly in feline medicine but and in small animal medicine in general and a lot of really inspirational clinicians and teachers And I suppose that what really gave me the bug a small animal medicine. But but I have. I still just wanted to be a general bit. I had no aspirations of being a medicine specialist or anything like that. So I graduated in 2000.
Andrea Harvey:And my first job in practice was in a mixed practice. Although my job was small animal, it was in some set that I spent a lot of time at when I was a vet student. So I knew the practice really well and really liked it. And it was a maternity cover that I was doing in that first job And it was. They had a permanent job arise which everybody kind of thought that I was going to get. This permanent job the sort of junior vets that I work closely with and all the nurses. I just absolutely loved that practice.
Andrea Harvey:I thought I was going to be at that practice forever And this was my first career disaster because I didn't get the job And I was absolutely gutted I remember that so clearly just devastated that I thought I was going to be in this practice forever and I didn't get the job. So I then sort of applied for a whole load of other jobs and ended up moving to a mixed practice in South Yorkshire. I hadn't even been that far north in the UK before and I could barely understand the clients And I guess it was there that I started thinking I was just trying to do the best job that I could but was quite overwhelmed trying to be good at everything. And although I was in mixed practice, i found it really hard going out on calls and knowing that you had patients in the hospital to go back to And the time that it took you away from the hospital and just so much to learn and so much to know, yes, and it's quite stressful, isn't it?
Emma McConnell:Like I was the same. I remember when you do yeah, you have to be on a farm at a certain time, yet you've got your in hospital patients, and I always found that really stressful.
Andrea Harvey:It totally was, And so I kind of thought I need to. I didn't think of focusing on one thing permanently, I just thought I need to focus on one thing at a time. So I need to pick something to get good at So I know what to read about in the evening rather than just having a panic because I don't need to read about 20 different things. Yes, absolutely Yeah. I had found that I I guess I become really interested in phila medicine during my final year at Bristol in particular, And I sort of discovered that I had quite an affinity for hats and a lot of the cat clients were choosing to come to see me, And so I thought, okay, I'll kind of focus on that for a bit and try and get get good at that. And so I started doing a little bit of Phila medicine CPD, And this was actually quite early on And I went on a CPD course where Sarah Kaney was lecturing. Sarah Kaney was a lecturer at Bristol, not when I was there, but soon after I graduated. She became a lecturer in Phila medicine at Bristol And I had a chat to her at this CPD and she there was a residency coming up at Bristol and she encouraged me to go down that pathway, which I'd never considered before. I was just focused on I just want to be the best vet that I can. But this will be such a good learning opportunity that I can, you know, potentially learn a lot more and then take that back to practice.
Andrea Harvey:And I applied for this residency back at Bristol. So it was a Phila. It was funded by what's now called International Cat Care. It was the Phila Advisory Bureau at the time. So it was just a two year residency, just in cats, And I didn't expect to get it. I thought if I apply now it might look good, You know, if I apply again in the future, kind of thing. I wasn't sure I'd get it the first time round, But I was very fortunate that I did get that residency.
Andrea Harvey:So that was two years after I graduated that I went back to Bristol and started this Phila residency And I, yeah, absolutely loved that. It was a very steep learning curve. You know what it's like. Yes, We had the most amazing team there, though like the most amazing group of residents, the most amazing teachers, like. I probably never realized it at the time how good it was, But it really was an amazing learning experience And I was fortunate that I ended up managing to get that residency extended from a two year Phila only to a three year residency. That was a ECVM approved residency. So at the end of that in 2005, I sat both the RCVS diploma in Phila in medicine and the ECVM diploma in small animal medicine as well, And so suddenly I was an internal medicine specialist. That had not been my experience at all.
Emma McConnell:You're like, yeah, how did this happen? Isn't it so funny, though, how I think and we've probably all had these kind of sliding door moments I know for me like I've had sort of similar experience where you've gone for a job and it's a job that you've really, really, really wanted. For me it was the equine residency at the RBC following on from my internship, and I never thought that I was going to get it, but I did really want it because I loved working at the RBC so much. But isn't it funny, similar to you, had you have gotten that job that you'd applied for in the practice that you thought was going to be your forever practice, there's no way you would have ended up doing all the incredible things that you've done. Probably You know like your journey would have looked so different.
Andrea Harvey:I'm sure, yeah, i'm sure And I do, and that's sort of one of the things I suppose that I've learned throughout my career is that there's a lot of benefits in just kind of going with the flow and grabbing opportunities that present to you. I'm not a person that has like five or 10 year plans, for example, because I think that can be really restrictive. And, yeah, you've got to keep an open mind and never really know where life is going to take you.
Emma McConnell:I think That's right And I think, being open to those opportunities and kind of saying yes to them, because I guess, if you know, obviously you were encouraged to apply and you did just go for it, you know like, but I guess there could have been the time where you thought, oh no, i'm not going to put myself out there.
Andrea Harvey:Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And I didn't feel. you know, i was loving general practice at that time So I actually I didn't really feel like I wanted to leave, but obviously, having been offered the residency, i couldn't turn that down. So I obviously did accept that but I didn't. Yeah, it was. it was a bit of a tear away from general practice because I was really liking it at that time as well.
Emma McConnell:And so and so then, where did you go? sort of once you'd become a diplomat and you know, internal medicine specialist.
Andrea Harvey:Yeah, well, i was really fortunate again, like I mean, i have been so fortunate throughout my career to just keep getting really amazing opportunities, and it just so happened that at the end of my residency Sarah Kani left the lectureship there And so a position opened up and I was successful in getting that lectureship. So I stayed on at Bristol for a further five years in that role, and that was also an international cat care funded role.
Andrea Harvey:So throughout my whole residency and the five years during the lectureship I was also working really closely with international cat care and the International Society of Feline Medicine, so that also gave me a main opportunities, doing a lot of work with them, a lot of lecturing throughout Europe, for example, and that I was involved in developing the cat friendly clinic accreditation scheme, which is now a global sort of scheme. So that was something that I sort of started at the beginning of my lectureship as a tiny little initiative in the UK And now look at it, yeah, and then I gosh, i really love my Bristol job as well.
Andrea Harvey:It was like it was the perfect job. But well, you'll know how it is in academia Once you've been it's. Five years is the magic kind of time, they say, that you start adding loads of admin parts on to you and it gets harder and harder to keep all the balls in the air. It does be, because I'd never really intended to go so niche.
Andrea Harvey:You know, i wanted to be a mixed practice James Herriot vet and there I am as a medicine lecturer And I kind of felt, if I did anything else at that stage, that I would never be able to do anything else, that I would be, you know, stuck just doing feline medicine, because that's all I'd sort of ever done, and so I decided to just take the plunge and leave, And with no real set plans, i let. What led me to leave is that there was a small animal medicine six month position, covering a maternity leave, in a private referral practice, and the pay was so good that it meant that I could take some time off, which I hadn't taken any time off pretty much since graduation. Yes, and so I decided to do that so that I could just have a bit of time off as well and, you know, decide what I wanted to do. So, yeah, i kind of spent a year doing private referral practice, locums, lots of CPG, and that's when I first came over to Australia.
Andrea Harvey:During that time as well, yes, so yeah, i was, i guess at that time I had just started being a tutor on the Centre of Veterinary Education Distance Education course for feline medicine. That was just being extended more into Europe, and so I'd been recruited as a tutor for that And kind of through that, invited to come and speak at a conference and do some CPG in Australia. And that was through another feline specialist that in Australia. That organised all of that, richard Malick, who's now my partner. So that's how it ended up going to Australia.
Emma McConnell:Oh my God, that is so amazing, but doesn't that just show like how incredible our job actually is? You know the fact that you can be invited to. you know the other side of the world and you know they're in.
Andrea Harvey:you know so much for your life changes, yeah absolutely, And it's and I saw a love about the profession as well is it's sort of so small in that way, isn't it, that you do easily get to know people that are, that are all over the world and you can move anywhere really easily, Yes, And so it was a really easy move. Like I, through a friend, I got introduced to the Small Animal Specialist Hospital in Sydney So private referral practice. I went to visit and they immediately offered me a job, which was amazing, And I was able to set up a like Feline specific department there and do the cat friendly clinic accreditation and set up radio ID cats and do so. That was really amazing. To be able to step straight into that role as I came to Australia, That's amazing. And then, gosh, what happened then? So then I had three years there.
Emma McConnell:See, i knew that. I knew that you'd had an amazing career so far. It's quite convoluted.
Andrea Harvey:So my partner owned a farm in rural New South Wales and so when I worked in Sydney I was spending three long days working in the clinic in Sydney and then travelling and spending the rest of the week at the farm, and so it became quite tiring doing that and it was a very busy referral practice and I guess I was beginning to burn out a little bit as well, and just the travel back and forth as well, and I'd kind of always considered doing a PhD and never quite had the opportunity to, and so I thought maybe I'll do that just to have a bit of a break, more than anything else. Yes, yeah, so I ended up enrolling in a PhD and I know we're going to talk about this kind of switch back to horses later on. Yes.
Andrea Harvey:My PhD ended up being in wild horses, and I get it. Oh my god, i love it. At the same time, i was getting more interested in kind of broader animal welfare issues, and so I sat the animal welfare memberships at the same time as well, at the beginning of my PhD. Yeah, so, god, i mean I again will talk more about my PhD later on, but I guess that was another amazing experience and part of the reason I mean I was really interested in horses, i was interested in the wild horse issue, but also, oh my gosh, like the opportunity to research wild horses in Australia and spend time in these amazing places where, also in parts of the, you know, parts of national parks that are restricted access, that you can't even go into, you know, as a tourist or whatever, and I you know. so this opportunity to spend time in the Blue Mountains, in the Australian Alps, in Cosiosco, the Victorian Alps, and it's all part of your job, like how amazing is that?
Emma McConnell:Oh my gosh. I guess you could probably have never have thought when you were a final year vet student that you're you would have ended up where you've ended up now and that your journey would have looked the way it did Like I suspect that it's exceeded all expectations.
Andrea Harvey:Absolutely. I mean, i guess I didn't really have any expectations. My aim was always just to be the best vet that I could be and to make a difference to the lives of as many animals as I could, and that's really clearly remained my aim. And that sort of in part explains the convoluted journey, because it's been opportunities that I've seen where I can make a difference and so, like with feline.
Andrea Harvey:It was because feline medicine was still in its infancy when I was a new graduate and I really saw this opportunity that I could do a much better job for cats, and that's sort of how I went into that and then you know, yeah, with the wild horse issue, again I saw this opportunity where there were lots of issues with wild horses in Australia and not much veterinary interest and I just saw this opportunity that I could make a difference as well. So that's kind of what's always kept me focused, i suppose, and I guess partly why I've thrived in being able to grab all these unexpected opportunities rather than having set expectations.
Emma McConnell:Yeah, absolutely, and I mean I would certainly say that I think you've absolutely achieved that goal on, you know probably a number of levels I think not only for you as a practicing clinician have you helped so many lives but also through, like all of the CPD that you've presented and the you know coaching and mentoring. You know that you have done over the years and again, this is something that we'll probably talk about a little bit later but through that you're also helping those people to help people. So, yeah, i would probably say that you've well and truly achieved your goal, which is amazing.
Andrea Harvey:Yeah, i wouldn't say I've achieved it. I'm like I'm still striving for all those things, like we can still always be better and still, you know, there's so many areas of so many animals that we can still make a difference to, and so it's still. It's an ongoing, continuous.
Emma McConnell:Absolutely so. Yeah, can you just maybe tell us a little bit more about the wild horses? so I guess you know how, if you're happy to share, how that opportunity, you know, even kind of came across your radar.
Andrea Harvey:Yeah. So I guess what happened is, as I've already said, i always had a love of horses and that's what drove me to become a vet in the first place, and I'd always had the dream of training young horses from scratch, from youngsters. And when I moved to Australia because my partner had this large farm in rural New South Wales, i thought this is the time I'm going to get. We already had horses on the property, but it's a big property. Well, it was. It was 300 acres. We've now got 900 acres, so we have a big property. Oh my god, there are plenty of horses. So I was like right, this is it I'm gonna, this is what I'm gonna do I'm gonna get a young horse and you know I'm gonna train them from scratch.
Andrea Harvey:So I started looking around for young horses and I came across this charity that rehomed Brumbies. So Brumbies for anyone listening that doesn't know Australian wild horses or feral horses, and I didn't really know much about them at the time so I kind of learnt a bit more about the issues with with wild horses in Australia and basically there's other, the large numbers that are in some national parks and how they're removed and culled, and there's some organisations that take them on and like rehome them, and so I thought it would be a really nice to do to take one of these unwanted horses. And this particular charity that I came across had two yearlings at the time that were from Guy Fawkes National Park that they were looking to to rehome. So I went to visit them and I kind of already decided I'd have to get two, because you know it would be better for them to be with their own friend and to journey and everything. So I was like, okay, i'm gonna get two, two things.
Andrea Harvey:And I went up to visit them and there are actually three yearlings there together. So I thought, oh my gosh, well, i can't leave one behind, so, no, you can't separate them. So those are my first but my first Brumbies so these three yearling Brumbies from Guy Fawkes National Park and that was the beginning of my journey with Brumbies and and with training yeah, training on young horses and I was fortunate enough to get some really good help and training myself and I really fell in love with the training process, like not the fancy things, but the basic things from an unhandled horse, like the most rewarding thing for me is when a nervous, untouched animal has learned to trust you enough that they'll choose to come up to you and allow you to touch them. And that first time, like touching an animal like that I think it's so special and the relationship that you can go on to develop with them is really phenomenal.
Emma McConnell:So that's, yeah, kind of how I got into the the Brumbies and how many have you sort of trained, you know, since you started?
Andrea Harvey:yeah. So, um, well, i guess there's a few kind of things that happened uh, alongside each other from that point onwards, because I first, so I started off with those three and then I also kind of got asked, i got to know the people that ran that charity, and so sometimes, because they knew we had a big property, they would sometimes have horses that they didn't really want to re-home to sort of regular people like you know. They were maybe older horses or horses that already had a a failed home, and but they knew that we had this amazing property and that they could rely on me, and so they'd ask if I could take, take some more. And and then also alongside that, the, the same organization had been wanting to start some, you know, contraceptive trials for quite a long time, but they didn't have any um veterinary support and and so I kind of felt, well, i'm a bear, so I should probably help them. I had did not know anything at all about immunocontraception. I think I pretty much had to know what it even was at that point in time.
Andrea Harvey:And then soon after that I was running some immunocontraceptive trials, um, for the wow, and that again I I suppose I've just been gosh so fortunate to just have know the right people or have connections via you know different colleagues like I think the connections and the networks we can develop and nurture in the profession are amazing and that's what often gives you and like all these opportunities. So I just I got introduced to people that, yeah, knew about immunocontraception and they were really supportive and gave me advice and that meant I was able to then help this charity more and then again. Another sort of part of that was um becoming aware that the biggest group of horses that were struggling to be rehomed were the mature stallions, because of all the issues with training and housing and and and gelding. And there was a, a rehomer that was willing to train and rehome, like large numbers of stallions, on a that. He was based on a big um sheep back sheep station in outback New South Wales, um, many hours drive from the nearest vet.
Andrea Harvey:And so again I thought, oh, this is something I should help with and at this stage I'd never actually gelled it a horse before at all yes, so again, um connections and networks come in and and support from you know, wonderful colleagues, that um not only taught me how to gell the horses but came along for the journey and um, you know, ended up becoming a regular thing that we would travel out to this place and then to other people that were re-training stallions and and basically sort of going around gelding these Brumbie stallions for for people so that they could um get homes, and so the training became also that more, more, uh, not just training my own Brumbies but helping other people train them, just particularly for those early stages, so that they could be safely, you know, gelded and showing how, teaching people how to, how to do that, how to safely train them, just the basic things like needling and and and so on.
Andrea Harvey:Yeah, so that was kind of Oh, that was the beginning in the middle of my Brumbi journey and how the PhD then came in from there, i guess.
Emma McConnell:Yes, absolutely, and of course, the Brumbi story is not finished yet, is it? It's obviously still an ongoing thing that you're involved with.
Andrea Harvey:Yeah, So I guess what happened? I suppose I need to backstep a little bit. The PhD was another, i guess, fairly freak opportunity, because I was so all of this stuff with the Brumbis was happening whilst I was thinking about doing a PhD, which initially I was thinking of doing a cap-related topic, and then, because I was getting into all this, i was thinking, oh, maybe I should do a horse thing. I was thinking of doing something on the immunocontraception through for my PhD. That's sort of how the ideas initially started.
Andrea Harvey:And then I had a freak meeting with a guy that then became my supervisor, who is now a colleague, who's a wildlife ecologist, and it was actually a friend that I'd met through Brumbis. She was a journalist who had a love of Brumbis and I had gotten to know her. And she said, oh, you should go and meet this ecologist. Like he's really forward thinking, and he developed this center called the Center for Compassionate Conservation and he had an interest in like studying the ecology of introduced species and how they fit into the ecosystem here and all these kinds of things. And he said, oh, you should meet him.
Andrea Harvey:He's in Sydney. Like, he seems like a really great person. So I randomly went to meet him again. Not really thinking of doing a PhD with him, i just kind of thought oh yeah, he sounds like we've got a few things. I'm like I'll go and meet him. And lo and behold, the day I went to meet him he had an email come through from a colleague of his who worked in the Blue Mountains, saying do you know anyone that would be interested in doing a horse, a wild horse, phd in the Blue Mountains? And that was the day I'd gone.
Emma McConnell:No, Yeah, see, that was meant to be.
Andrea Harvey:Yeah, so that's how. Wow. Yeah, so I just like yeah, so that's basically how my PhD started. Oh my gosh.
Emma McConnell:Ken, we just take one step back. What made you want to do a PhD? Because it's no mean feat. You know a PhD is pretty full on. So, yeah, what was it that kind of drove you to want to do a PhD?
Andrea Harvey:Yeah, i think I guess it was something I thought about ever since I was a resident and I guess, because I spent a lot of time in academia from the beginning of my residency and throughout my lectureship, it was often on the cards. You know, i guess I was in a very academic environment. We worked as clinicians, we worked very closely with researchers as well, and it was always on the cards, i suppose, to try and dabble in research and see how I found it. But I just I didn't really have the opportunity before.
Andrea Harvey:It was too hard to like take the salary cut from being a clinician and go back to the sort of funding that you could get for a PhD, and so I guess that's what I'd always sort of thought oh, i've just become a specialist, i've got to get more experience, you know, and so it was something that I had never done, and I guess it just felt like the right time in my career, where I built up my clinical expertise already And also where I was feeling like I really kind of needed a bit of a break from clinics as well. Yeah, i wanted to do something different too, and so I guess that's how it came about.
Emma McConnell:Yeah, okay, and so what was PhD life like? Because I'm sure it's not all. you know, it doesn't always go swimmingly, you know in clinical research or any type of research is, you know, is never smooth sailing, no, so what was your journey like? Yeah, it's really hard to describe.
Andrea Harvey:I think it's very, very, very different to clinics.
Andrea Harvey:Like, obviously doing a residency is really challenging, but in a different way, i think. In clinics you know we're all much more part of a team and you're sort of sharing your journey with a number of other people in that team. But and that's probably the biggest difference like with a PhD Although of course you work with other people and share aspects of your journey with other people, so it's very much a personal journey and you're very much kind of on your own and sometimes that you can feel really alone as well with that, like it's just your little. You're in your little bubble doing your little thing and completely removed from the outside world, and it's also, i guess also the kind of rewards from it are very different to clinical rewards. I think you know you get the sort of needs in clinical work much more quickly. You know when a patient gets better and you know that kind of thing, whereas with a PhD you can be working on something for, you know, for two years or even more before you actually even realize any benefit from that.
Andrea Harvey:So you've really got to be in it for the long haul, you know you've got to really yeah have that strength to stick with it and just keep going when you know oftentimes it just feels like a waste of time and that you're not going to get anywhere, and it would be really easy to yeah, to give up a lot of the time.
Emma McConnell:And what would you say the sort of most difficult thing about your PhD was I'm just thinking, you know, for people who might be interested or intrigued as to you know what doing a PhD might look like. I guess sort of you know what would be some of the challenges that you would maybe just advise people of.
Andrea Harvey:Yeah, i think it's hard.
Andrea Harvey:I think every PhD is so very different and you know, and whether you're doing a clinical or a lab based or, in my case, a field based PhD, i think that the challenges can all be really different. And one of the things again I guess this is in common with my sort of whole career path, but it's definitely not to have set ideas. So you know, you kind of have to lay your PhD out, like to get your scholarship or whatever. You've got to have this idea of what your whole project's going to be. So you have to do that, but then kind of have to forget it And again just go with the flow and take, like, my PhD being very different to what it started out you know being And I think that that's the real fun of research is you've got to allow yourself to be able to yeah, to be able to grab those opportunities as they arise and not have some set pathway that you're you know, that you're set on following. I think that's probably the biggest bit of it that I would give.
Emma McConnell:Yes, Yeah, Okay, No, that's super. So obviously you know you've now completed your PhD and sort of. So what's kind of in the future now, or what are you up to these days? Yeah?
Andrea Harvey:Well, again, i'm not doing what I expected I might do. I kind of the PhD was, i suppose, yes, sort of, you know it was following a hobby really rather than a, and having a break from clinics rather than being a career setting stone, and I kind of thought I'd go back to being a clinician or I got really into, really into the equine work And I really wanted to actually continue doing some equine work, not necessarily clinical, but like what equine welfare type work you know. So maybe small animal medicine and equine work. But then a physician came up for a research fellowship at the same university where I did my PhD And they're very competitive positions And again I didn't think I was going to get it. But I had a little bit of post PhD blues, i suppose, kind of thinking oh well, why have I done all of this? And you know it will be a waste of time if I don't do anything else. And maybe I should apply for this research fellowship And the because it's within a wildlife ecology group. The idea was actually for me to.
Andrea Harvey:I haven't really spoken about what I done in my PhD actually, but so I'm kind of skipping ahead. But basically within my PhD I developed this whole framework for assessing the welfare of wild free roaming horses, but in a way that it could apply to other species. So all my work was, but it was like a, a show sample of how that could also be applied to other species, and I kind of realized that only no one else was going to actually take it and apply it to other species And so if I didn't do that, a lot of the work that I'd done would maybe be lost or wasted. And so that's what I proposed for my research fellowship was that I essentially did what I had done in horses in a range of other species.
Andrea Harvey:And I, again, i was really fortunate to get the research fellowship. So it's a four year fellowship where I, yeah, lead my own research project, and so that's what I'm. That's what I'm currently doing. Yes, i'm expanding all the work that I did in, so it's basically animal welfare science. It expands that into into other wildlife species.
Emma McConnell:That's amazing And and I guess what we might do because we probably don't have the time, unfortunately, to sort of go, i guess, into detail of your PhD, but perhaps we could link to some of your publications that you did get, you know, published through your PhD, if people did want a bit more, you know, to hear a little bit more about what you actually got up to.
Emma McConnell:Yeah, sure, so, like we said before, your career has been so varied and just so incredible really. But again, you know, i don't think it's just sort of luck, i think you know you create your own luck. I think you are very open to all of these opportunities that came your way And you know you've worked really hard, you know, over all of these years, which is, you know, just fantastic. So, and it certainly sounds like you are still very committed to our profession and still striving, you know, to be the best veterinary professional that you can be. So I guess, with that in mind, what does veterinary happiness mean to you And what do you think it is that has kind of kept you so connected with the profession?
Andrea Harvey:Yeah, i mean, i guess that it comes back to my aims as a new graduate and just wanting to be the best that that I can and make a difference to the lives of animals, and I think that you know it's very easy to lose focus of that, but if you stay focused on that and again be, you know, be open to different opportunities that enable you to achieve that, i guess that's what has given me veterinary happiness, and I think that a key thing as well is that I think achieving that happiness can be helped or hindered by those around you And I think I've been one incredibly fortunate to have some amazing people around me throughout my career but also to ensure that you seek out those people and that you don't waste time on people that are going to hinder those aims.
Andrea Harvey:Like you know, i can't think of specific situations. I probably wouldn't have hung around long enough with any people that fell into that category, but I think that's really important. Like I guess I do see that in some colleagues where they have people around them that are really hindering their veterinary happiness and they, you know, keep, they keep going with them. And I would say, like you need those people gone from your life. Seek out the people that you know help your aims and your veterinary happiness, and not those that hinder it.
Emma McConnell:Absolutely, And I think you've made a really good point, And I think this goes for all of us, regardless of where at what stage in our career we're at. But I think, you know, it is always really important to think back to our why, You know, why did we start on this journey in the beginning and is where we are now, the things that we're doing now. Is that aligned with our why? And if it's not, then maybe it is time to look at a change or look at some kind of diversification, you know. That then, does support our initial why, Because I think often, you know, we do kind of get stuck in a job and it might not be the perfect job, you know, but it kind of pays the bills and it's sort of okay, you know, but you might just feel, well, maybe I'm not sort of reaching my full potential And I've sort of, you know, kind of forgotten why I started this in the first place.
Emma McConnell:So I think you're always kind of bringing it back and thinking, you know, back to you know why you initially started this journey in the first place. I think can be really beneficial, Absolutely.
Andrea Harvey:And I think we are really lucky in our profession and that there are so many different opportunities that if people should just be brave and not shy of doing something different, it doesn't have to be forever, like that's what I've kind of think to myself as well. Like it's not, i don't think in my mind that I've left clinics forever. I've never given up clinics, i've just gone to have a change and do something. you know that, and if you don't like that change, you know change again or go back. But just that process of changing and doing something different can be really refreshing, i think too.
Emma McConnell:Absolutely, and would you say that that's probably something that has contributed to, i guess, your longevity in the profession? I mean, you're sort of 23 years in and certainly no sign of stopping, so do you think that that's probably played a?
Andrea Harvey:role? Yeah, absolutely, Absolutely. I think if I had, if I stayed in private referral practice and this isn't and I'm not putting this as a negative point about against private referral practice, but I don't think I would be feeling the same way that I am now because, just because it's a hard, it's a hard slug and it's a hard, it's hard to keep going, But probably the same with everything. If I'd stayed in my job in Bristol as an academic, I think the same would apply.
Emma McConnell:You know, it's hard staying in the same job and the same role for a long period of time And I definitely think the changes and the diversity really helped me And I guess you know, having you know I obviously speak to a lot of veterinary professionals and it's kind of one common theme when you talk to people who you know are really thriving in their career and still really passionate about the profession. the majority of those people do have some element of diversification. And so I, for me, personally, i kind of feel that you know, maybe that is kind of the secret source you know, to veterinary happiness is is, i think, to maybe have that little bit of diversification there.
Emma McConnell:Yeah definitely So. So you obviously now live in rural New South Wales for the most part And I'm guessing that you probably don't have sort of a plethora of vets around you. But obviously sort of being living ruraly, what do you think could be some ways that we could attract veterinary professionals to work in rural locations?
Andrea Harvey:I think, firstly, there probably is an issue about selection of undergraduate students, because I think that it would be fair to say that there's probably a low proportion of people who have grown up and lived in the cities all their life that they would actually then want to go and be, you know, be a rural bet. I'm sure there are some that you know generalization, but you're more likely to find people that are going to thrive being rural bets. You know that they they grew up in rural communities and went to school in rural places, And so I think those people are underrepresented in vet schools And I think they have, you know, disadvantages compared to some of the city graduates and they just don't get the places. And I mean, I actually know people that would be fantastic vets and have tried to get into vet school and, you know, just not got the places. But I think that's definitely the first thing that I would say.
Andrea Harvey:The second thing is, I mean I'm not sure this is necessarily restricted to rural practices, although maybe because you have people in rural practices probably spend more time with their work colleagues than anyone else, because they don't perhaps have as many people around them, you know, as many friends and family close to them, as you might have in a city. Yes, That who you work with is really important, And I've definitely come across a lot of horrible stories about how vets are being treated, not necessarily by colleagues, but particularly by their employers, And I think there's a real issue there. Again, obviously that's a generalization. There's some fantastic employers And that's one of the things again that I think I've been really lucky with.
Andrea Harvey:All my employers throughout my career have been really supportive and really nice people And that's enabled me to thrive in the profession, But some people aren't as lucky And I've definitely heard a lot of horror stories about the way that new graduates in particular are treated and spoken to, And it's yeah, something needs to be done about that, because I think that's really killing. That may not be a rural practices, but I don't know. Maybe it's harder for people to deal with that kind of lack of support in rural practices And I think that I don't know how that can be addressed, but I think it needs to be addressed. I think there's some real issues there.
Emma McConnell:And I guess you know, when you are perhaps in a job where you're not that well supported and then you don't have the support network, you know, because maybe you've moved away from your friends and family, you know, to pursue a job because maybe you love cattle, medicine or something, just an example, you know, then I think that makes it really tough. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And you know, and I think so often people are so quick to say, oh well, our new graduates need to be more resilient. It's like, well, no, our older practitioners or more experienced practitioners need to be more supportive.
Andrea Harvey:Yeah, of our new grads? Absolutely. I mean, I think you know, resilience is definitely a really important trait for vets And but it's something that develops, and it develops through nurturing and supporting people. I mean, I would consider myself to be very resilient now, but that's, you know, that doesn't happen overnight. That's because I've been fortunate in being nurtured and supported throughout my career.
Emma McConnell:Yes, absolutely, and I think I would probably say the same. I think, yeah, with the exception of, i think, one job. Yeah, i think I've been so lucky, you know, to be surrounded by the people that I have been surrounded with, and then, in the job, where you know it was a pretty toxic environment, i was pretty quick to, i guess, acknowledge it and move on. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
Emma McConnell:Oh, Andrea, your, like I said, your career has just been like incredible. I feel like you should write a book about it. At some stage maybe that could be like you know one thing to put on your list. but you really have such a fantastic story And, yeah, it's been such a pleasure talking to you. But before we do go, we still have a little bit of time, but I just wondered if you could share with us perhaps what one of your career highlights has been, or maybe a favorite veterinary memory to date.
Andrea Harvey:Yeah, i can't really think of a single event or memory. To be honest, there's just sort of been so many, so many.
Andrea Harvey:Yeah and I guess it's often simple things that can be the most pleasure, i think as well. Then it's not necessarily complicated cases or important research that would be the highlights. It's often like really simple things, and I also get a lot of pleasure from like meeting or hearing someone that you taught or that attended a CPD lecture, or read a book chapter that you wrote, and like sort of telling them years later down the track how something you said helped a case or helped them get through a tough time, or people that you've mentored for exams and things like that that go on to become specialists themselves, and I think things like that are really rewarding. I think there's so many different aspects of the jobs that are rewarding that it's hard to single anything out.
Emma McConnell:Absolutely No, i would completely agree. Well, andrea, like I said, thank you so so much for joining me today, for taking time out of your very busy schedule, and I also hear that you've perhaps had some new arrivals at your property recently.
Andrea Harvey:Yes, emma, my partner surprised me with four camels yesterday. Oh my gosh. So I'm now becoming a camel trainer.
Emma McConnell:Oh my gosh, are they wild camels.
Andrea Harvey:No, they're male. They're male rejects from a dairy, so they're not wild camels, but they haven't had much handling. So I answer they are a little bit like brown bees that I'm having to like start their handling. So I'm applying the same principle. Oh my gosh.
Emma McConnell:Oh, i absolutely love that, i think. the only thing I know about camels is I think that they can be a bit tricky to anesthetize.
Andrea Harvey:Yeah, well, I haven't got that far in my camel knowledge, but I've got no intention to try and to anesthetize them at the moment.
Emma McConnell:That's it, Okay great, so you don't need to geld them. I don't know, is that what you call it with camels? They're not entire.
Andrea Harvey:I think they are entire, but I'm not sure that they're all males and like we're not intending to get any females, so I think they may be okay.
Emma McConnell:Thank you so much, andrea. It's been such a pleasure talking to you. Thanks, emma. Thanks for having me.
Emma McConnell:See, i wasn't lying when I said Andrea's story was a fascinating one. When I think about her journey, the phrase life happens for me immediately comes to mind. It always amazes me how outcomes to situations that you might initially perceive as being negative actually end up being so much better for us in the end. I also loved how one of the things that brings Andrea joy and career satisfaction is her mentorship of junior colleagues. Now, i think we would all agree that having support and guidance from those a little more experienced than us is just so critical.
Emma McConnell:Speaking of mentorship and being there to help others, we are so lucky to have Andrea as one of our coaches for our Medicine of Cats membership exam coaching course. Andrea has a wealth of experience with the ANZ CVS exams and has coached a vast number of candidates to exam success. If you are considering sitting your memberships and are looking for some support, accountability and guidance throughout the exam preparation process, then be sure to send us a direct message on socials at Platinum underscore CPD Email, feline at platinumcpdcom, or head to our website wwwplatinumcpdcom to find out more. Wishing you a wonderful week ahead. Bye for now.